[music] [music] [music] Heat. Heat. [music] [music] >> [music] >> Heat. Heat. >> [music] [music] >> Heat. Heat. >> [music] >> Heat. Heat. Heat. [music] Heat. >> [music] >> Call to order the July 23rd meeting of the Kerry Town Council. At this time, I'll recognize Mayor Pro Tim Bush for our ceremonial opening. >> Thank you, Mayor. Please join me in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> We're at item three on the agenda. We have received a request from staff to add the item amendment to the meeting schedule to tonight's consent agenda. Is there a motion to adopt the agenda as amended? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. Motion and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I. >> I. Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously. Which takes us to recognitions, reports, and presentations. Her first presentation is PRCR month proclamation. And I'll recognize Council Member Bonsel to present the proclamation and invite her honored guest to join her. Thank you Sarah for joining today. You're the chair of the PRCR board and doing an incredible job in keeping us on track. Thank you so much for that. So today I will recognize July 2026 as parks and recreation month in Kerry, North Carolina. Whereas Kerry Parks Recreation and Cultural Resources enriches the lives of residents by providing highquality parks, programs, facilities, cultural experiences, and recreational opportunities that foster health, wellness, connection, and belonging. And would you join me? Whereas whereas K's nationally recognized parks and recreation system serves people of all ages, abilities, and interests, creating welcoming spaces where residents and visitors can play, learn, gather, celebrate, and build community. And whereas parks, trails, greenways, natural areas, odds [snorts] and recreation programs contribute to to the environmental, social and economic vitality of Kerry while supporting healthy lifestyles and enhancing quality of life. And whereas the town of Kerry is committed to thoughtfully planning for the future by expanding access to parks and recreation, promoting environmental stewardship, embracing innovation and ensuring these resources continue to meet the evolving need of our growing community. And whereas Kerry recognizes the dedicated professionals, volunteers, partners, and community members whose contributions help make Kerry's parks and recreation system one of the nation's finest and strengthen our community every day. Now therefore, I, Council Member Sera Bansel, on behalf of the Kerry Mayor and Council, do hereby proclaim July 2026 as Park and Recreation Month in Kerry. And I encourage all residents to discover new experiences, connect with nature and one another, support our parks and programs, and celebrate the many ways our parks, recreation, and cultural resources help our community thrive. proclaim this 23rd day of July 2026. [snorts] [applause] Would you like to say a few words? Thank you, Councilwoman Bonsel, and thank you, Mayor, and other council members. We certainly appreciate all of the resources, the time, the effort that Carrie puts into our parks, recreation, and cultural resources division. The town of Kerry, the citizens that live throughout the town of Kerry thoroughly enjoy all kinds of activities in our town. Whether it be our seniors at a hot dog hoown over at Bond Park, or whether it be toddlers taking a parent and child art class from Miss Lisa at the Kerry Art Center, which I did many times. uh or if it might be folks taking dance classes or attending a concert or going to an event that might be happening such as the Chinese lantern festival at Kokaboo. The town of Kerry is rich in experiences for our citizens. And it's because of this that Kerry is so nationally recognized as a wonderful place to live. And there's no other place on earth I would rather raise my family and have my parents join me now after they've retired and moved here. This is the place to live. I absolutely love it. And I thank you for investing in the power of play. You see, play sort of goes as a theme through everything that we do in parks, recreation, and cultural resources. It's healing for our community. So, I do want to encourage folks to get out to our parks, our greenways, our paths, our trails. Take a class, try something new, go to a concert, come to the 50th annual Lazy Days Festival taking place just one month from now on August 22nd and 23rd. And again, thank you for making Kerry what it is by having such a robust parks, recreation, and cultural resources division. Thank you. >> Thank you. [applause] Our second presentation is the Sister Cities Proclamation and I'll recognize Council Member Craig to present this proclamation and invite her honored guest to join her at the podium. >> Yay. Both of you stay. Um, so yes, I am council member Michelle Craig and I am honored to be the council liaison for Kerry's sister cities. And tonight we have a proclamation recognizing Sister Cities International Day. Whereas in 2026, Sister Cities International is celebrating 70 years of global citizen and civic diplomatic action and helping support a future where the world's cities, communities, and its citizens can come together on common ground. Whereas Sister Cities International Day is a fitting occasion to commemorate the significant impact that the organization has made in building bridges across nations, cities, cities and communities across the globe in order to create and sustain world peace. Whereas Sister Cities International was founded as president presidential initiative by President Dwight D. Eisenhower on September 11th, 1956 at the White House Conference on Citizen Diplomacy to create more community-led global relationships so that people of different cultures could appreciate their differences and build partnerships that would lessen the chance of new national conflicts. Whereas Sister Cities International currently has 400 US member cities, counties, and states that include relationships with more than 1,800 communities in 140 countries spanning six continents. Whereas Kerry, North Carolina is proud to be a driving part of the global network with sister city partnerships spanning the globe and the following cities and and countries. Leuk France, Markham, Canada, Bandernham, Turkey, Shinu, Taiwan, and County Meet, Ireland. Whereas countless city, county and state governments and their leaders have been involved in global relationships due to sister cities international. And whereas these relationships include educational, economic, cultural, municipal, and humanitarian assistance exchange programs that are mutually beneficial to each community. Whereas, Sister C's International Day is a call to action for Americans as citizens of the world to come together to celebrate the importance of communities, continued commitment to people, people-to-people exchanges, and show how powerful humanity can be when we unite to promote peace, progress, and prosperity for a better world. Now therefore, I, Council Member Michelle Craig, on behalf of the Kerry Mayor and Council, do hereby recognize July 23rd, 2026 as Sister C's International Day in in Kerry and encourage all residents to celebrate this day as a milestone for world peace. Proclaimed this 23rd day of July, 2026. [applause] Kingston King. [laughter] Um we have a Kenna King and um um and we have Mihal Lynch that are coming to accept the award for the proclamation. We're all awarded by our civic mind. [laughter] My folded up speech here. Okay. Hi, my name is Kenna King. I'm the vice president of Kerry Sister Cities. Our president, Pamela Huff, is currently in DC at the 70th anniversary event where she will be joining the National Board of Directors. On behalf of our organization, thank you to the town and the mayor for this proclamation and for your continual support you have provided the last 36 years. For those who don't know us, Kerry Sister Cities is the local chapter of Sitter Sister Cities International. We organize cultural events and exchanges based around our sister cities in France, Canada, Turkey, Taiwan, and Ireland. In a time of increased political tension and xenophobia, creating international connections and celebrating our shared humanity is more important than ever. These programs create meaningful impact in our community. From creating educational opportunities for our youth to generating tourism and economic activ opportunities for our businesses, I encourage everyone to come out to one of our events, grill out a barbecue, picnic, and learn about French local government or come to our stage at Lazy Days to watch a Taiwanese cooking demonstration. It's amazing the things you learn and people you meet when you get involved. I look forward to our continued work with the town and thank you again for your support. [applause] Our third recognition is for the attendees of the Kerry Public Service Academy who are joining us this evening. The Kerry Public Service Academy was created to help high school students learn how local government works while inspiring them to explore careers in public service and community leadership. had the opportunity today to speak with this outstanding group and I was genuinely impressed by their thoughtful questions they ask and their enthusiasm for serving their community. I also know that many of our council members look forward to celebrating with them at their graduation on Friday. These students represent a bright future for Kerry and I'm excited to see the impact they will have on our community in the years ahead. We are honored to have them with us tonight and I would ask that the students of the Kerry Public Service Academy please stand and be recognized. [applause] >> [applause] [applause] >> Thank you. We now move to the fourth item which is the interim town manager update and I'll recognize Mr. Overton. Thank you, mayor. I want to take a moment to update our residents on the two work sessions we've had uh this prior to tonight's regular meeting. As a reminder, work sessions are livereamed and recorded and available on the town's YouTube channel as well as Cary TV11 for those of you um that do not have cable TV. Early earlier tonight, staff provided an update on several utility items including work on a new utility billing system, long-standing year-round water conservation efforts, and our wastewater study with Holly Springs. We also talked about transit, in particular the bus rapid transit system, as well as our multimodal center project and the downtown circulator route. Tuesday night, we received our monthly revenue report and spent the rest of the meeting pretty much focused on council priorities. Council initiated items and process options for addressing some of the recommendations in the Womble Bond Dickinson report, which is next on tonight's agenda. So, I'll stop talking here and turn it back over to you, Mayor. >> Thank you, Mr. Overton. And a great segue to our fifth and final item is the presentation of the Kerry Town Council Special Commission report by WML Bond Dickinson. And first, I'd like to recognize our town attorney, Lisa Glover, to introduce the item. >> Thank you, Mayor. It's my pleasure to introduce John Cook of WMLB Dickinson. John has worked with many North Carolina local governments and their governing boards throughout his career and has a deep understanding of local government operations. Wample Bond Dickinson has completed its comprehensive review and investigation of the town initiated after the resignation of the former town manager and John is here to present the findings. This review was commissioned by council to develop a fuller understanding of what occurred and identify the changes needed to strengthen the organization. Its recommendations provide council and staff with a clear framework for improving accountability, oversight, and workplace governance. And with that, I'll turn it over to John. >> Thank you, Lisa. Good evening, >> mayor and members of the council. I'm John Cook, and I'm here on behalf of Wumble Dickinson. Thank you for the opportunity for us to be able to share the key aspects of our report that you commissioned us to do to look into three aspects of town uh operations. I have about 10 slides to give you a preview of that and the slides will discuss four principal matters. what we were asked to examine, how we approached the work, what we found, and most importantly perhaps what we recommend the town council to consider going forward. If you have questions during the presentation, feel free to interrupt me. Uh you don't need to hold your questions to the end. This slide is an overview of our assignment and I'm going to be pretty quick going through it. You asked us to do an independent evaluation and report and you did not nor did the town staff influence our conclusions or our analysis. You challenged us to look at three aspects of town government. burst procurement card transactions and reimbursements, which simply are the town credit card transactions and reimbursements, the financial reporting of information to the town council and the workplace environment. You specifically designated an examination period from July 1, 2021, which was the beginning of your fiscal year for that year, to November 20th, 2025 when uh you placed the former town manager on administrative leave. You challenged us not only to investigate facts, but to come up with recommendations. The investigation of facts are the easy part. the recommendations of the hard part. This slide again simply tells you what our scope review and investigatory approach was. And there are four points on here. Number one, we we did not duplicate the efforts of any state agencies, but we cooperated with all state agencies that were looking at similar matters. We did what lawyers do. We investigate, gather facts, then we look at rules and then we draw conclusions whether those rules were applied to those particular transactions and events appropriately and as intended. Our information we gathered from multiple resources. We had documents. We retained a private uh accounting firm to help us sort through the PECAR transactions which involved 28 different people who were who who were designated to look at those transactions. We gathered information from both current employees and former employees. And because there were no surveys of employees during the examination time or really for the last 10 years, we looked at a postexamination survey of the employees conducted in the first half of 2026 to give us an indication of what the workplace environment might have been during the examination period. So, as I said, we did what lawyers do and we came up with some findings and conclusions and they're pretty straightforward. We looked at many many uh PECAR transactions and reimbursements. uh with the use of this uh Forvvis which is an international accounting firm and their forensic team they quickly identified those transactions that they felt were most suited for further consideration and those transactions related to Mr. Steagall's transactions and the reasons they were selected was because they were generally the larger transactions that were uh handled during the pecard transactions but they also sorted that information into time into categories that were kind of interesting. First they sorted those categories in which Mr. Steagle used the pec card to charge of uh you know expenditures on weekends. Second one that they looked at was those pecard transactions in which he did not provide a receipt. And third they focused on pecard transactions that were where goods were delivered to his home and not to town hall. And those were the things that stood out in their mind as things that require further examination. Finding those facts led to simply looking at your policies. your policies and uh and rules and regulations which are captured in standard procedures adopted by town managers told the staff how to process PECAR transactions. Those rules and regulations were adopted by town managers prior to Mr. Steagle. Mr. Steagle did not update those those rules and policies and in looking at those rules and policy it is our conclusion that they were sufficient to give the staff opportunity to require further documentation from Mr. Steagle to require uh receipts to question transactions to audit those transactions and to decline to pay them. So we concluded that was an operational failure and by operational failure we simply mean there were rules in place that in our judgment were not applied as intended and so that rule failed. We also turning to the financial reporting aspect of it. There were two things that were pretty clear in the facts. first of all that you had adopted a fund balance policy that that fund balance policy was violated in fiscal year 2023 and Mr. Steagel had misstated that it had not been violated to you that is an operational failure. Secondly, the town uh council had already adopted a policy regarding an internate audit and audit function in town hall. And when Mr. Steagall came to town, there was an internal auditor on staff. Mr. Steagle eliminated that position and there really wasn't a position designated to handle this internal audit function that was required by your policy. Your policy also requires that you have the chance to ask this person who is to do these audits to go and look at various aspects of town government and it just wasn't there. So that's another operational failure. And furthermore, just looking at it broadly, Mr. Steagle managed the channels that were reporting financial information to you and key financial information in our judgment was not reported to you. Obviously, that's a judgment call. You can't report everything, but what are the key things? Well, we think budget changes, real property purchases, tuition payments, those things should have been reported to the full council in a timely and and complete and accurate fashion. So there were operational failures there. With regards to workplace uh work workplace environment, this is the hardest one for us to investigate because there were no surveys during this period of time because workplace environment always is a matter of perspective and so we gathered the best information we could. We focused in part on the survey conducted in 2026 after all of these matters came out and that in that survey there are three things that stood out in our mind. First, 44% of current ser current employees agree or disagree somewhat that decisions are driven by organizational priorities and professional judgment. This kind of echoed in some of the information we had gathered from others. But also in that report, a very large majority of those employees are fulfilled by their job. They enjoy serving the public. They appreciate being good public servants and they enjoy a good relationship with their direct supervisors from prior, you know, from former employees, some of who left the town happily and some who left the town less than happy. We just gathered a general view that things were not fully transparent. There were people who questioned the fairness of the decisions and there were some people who believed that decisions were made based upon Mr. Steaggle's favoritism of particular individuals. The information that we found was that Mr. Steagle continued to report to the council that the workplace environment was great. We as lawyers don't know how you do that if you don't have a survey. But regardless, at the best that information was either partially true and not and not completely accurate. So we suggest that the weight of the evidence here is that the town's policies that you adopt which require fairness in employment decisions and practices were not fully adhered to. You require merit-based decisions for employees. That does not seem to have been true always. This was another operational failure. That was the easy part of the report. That's what we do as lawyers all the time. Go find facts, look at the law, and conclude what happened. But you ask us to do more than that. You ask us to look for recommendations. And when we look at recommendations, you have to just figure out what's the cause. See, if you don't know the cause, then your recommendations don't fit the problem. And you could look at these individual operational failures and say, well, they're just individual instances. But in all of these operational failures, Mr. Steagle played a role directly, indirectly or somehow contributed to these operational failures. That led us to a really interesting question and that was, well, if it was just Mr. Steagle and it never could happen again and Mr. Steagel is no longer town manager, well, we don't need to make any recommendations because it's all been fixed. Um, this led us to looking at something that's different than what lawyers typically do. We looked at the structure of the council manager form of government. And in doing that, we concluded that there's a vulnerability in the structure. It's very important to say that every human structure has vulnerabilities because humans are involved. It doesn't say the structure is defective or it can't be fixed. It's just a vulnerability. And a vulnerability usually arises from a tradeoff. A tradeoff is where you've made a particular decision to cure one thing by creating something else. And that is exactly what happened with the council manager form of government. So turning to the structural vulnerability slide, what we found and this is we found by surveying academic literature across the country is that we found that the council manager form of government originated in the early 20th century. It was designed to cure a particular problem. The particular problem that they were concerned about was that elected officials were using their position to control operations and employment decisions for their personal or political gain. That was the problem these reformers were trying to solve with the council manager form of government. So what the what the form of government does is it walls you off. It's intentional. It walls you all from day-to-day operation employment decisions. That actually is a great comfort if you're ever on the other side of the wall as an employee, by the way. And I've been there. Um, but that's the system. And so, well, once you wall off the elected body, who's going to do it? Who's going to run the place? Well, they had a great confidence in their professional nonpartisan manager and they have vested they vested great authority and discretion in that official to run the government. And at that time they thought running the government was kind of like running a clock. You know, you just you just just put in rules and it'll all go very smoothly. Over the years, people have realized that there are some issues with that. The effect of that, and this is what the literature says, is that there's a partnership between the elected body and the town and the town manager. And as a partnership, it builds this notion that you of trust. You expect the manager to bring everything that would be important for your decision making and your supervision of the manager because only you have authority to supervise the manager to you as your trusted partner. The problem in the system is that as long as that is the trusted partner manager functions that way then you will have the information to help make the right policy decisions and supervise the manner manager [clears throat] appropriately. But here many of the questionable matters related to Mr. Steagel's own personal actions and he had management and control over the reporting channels of information to the t to the town council. That's the vulnerability. That's what needs to be fixed in our judgment. And that which leads us to the recommendations that we are making tonight or in our report actually. So our recommendations themes are three-fold. One is transparency and oversight, financial accountability, workplace culture and governance. I'm just going to hit on one of these because it really is a principal um assumption that we made presumption we made in selecting recommendations. We think transparency in government is critical for effective and efficient government operations. If there had been increased transparency in these situations, these operational failures would have come to your attention quicker and you've been able to deal with them in a more efficient way. We think transparency also addresses the two things that that need to be strengthened which we need to strengthen safeguards and we need to strengthen reporting channels of financial information to you. We favor transparency over rules if it's a tie. So with regards to transparency and oversight in the PECARD reimbursements, the first two uh recommendations are good examples of transparency. We think if you just publish the uh PECARD and reimbursements quarterly for the manager, the direct reports to the manager and the department heads, it will have a self-regulating effect. If you know it's going to be public, you will always be reminded that you need to be a good steward. So instead of saying you can't do something, encourage better behavior. Same thing with publishing travel, lodging, meals, and education expenditures. These are always going to be hot buttons. People always going to wonder whether that travel was better than it needed to be. Publish them quarterly. Let the public know. Let the council know. Third, adhere to the state auditor's recommendations. Those are good ideas. And then finally, because these PECAR transaction rules had not been updated regularly, we think you should require the manager to review and update those regulations every 3 years. These kinds of um you know uh how expenditures occur have changed so much over time that you really do need to update the policy every so often. With regards to the financial accountability, again, we're a big fan of written notice and information provided to the council that is mandated, not relying on the good faith of the manager, but to require the manager. And in all of these matters, you could have people sign certifications to this information, right? if you're worried that you need more than one person uh you know indicating it's correct but require written uh notice to the council before any appropriations out of fund balances are made mandate reporting discretionary budget changes at the next regular uh council meeting and on that point I'd say think about it your most powerful financial tool is your adopted budget there are very few things staff can change that you to adopt. Think about it. You adopt the law, they can't change it. Only you can change it. But they have to have some flexibility here to amend and change the budget. But you should be on notice of all of them and have a chance to play a role in that. Require advanced notice of uh real estate purchases exceeding $300,000. Again, real estate purchases are hot buttons. Everybody has an opinion what a piece of property is and they're usually not the same. So real estate purchases also typically involve local residents. So it's good for you to have that information. Reinstate the town auditor uh position which you have already done in your budget. Study best practices in budget development. Review technology procedures. This brings us to um to the workplace culture and governance. And we have 21 recommendations which is quite a handful. But uh of the ones that we think are most important and probably most difficult and the ones that the state auditor did not make any recommendations on, we think workplace culture and governance are important. um engage an outside consultant for an annual review for the annual uh performance review of the manager [clears throat] and we actually said the town attorney and clerk so everybody was treated fairly. Uh the current system is that you were using a human resources department but the human re and that saves money. It saves money but the human resources department is supervised by the manager. It puts them in an impossible position. And I'll also say if you're a staff person who has information you think you need to know, they would be very reluctant to report it to human resources because they know human resources answers to the mayor to the manager, excuse me. So this is one of those examples. We don't like many of them that cause a little e extra money. Embed a code of ethics in your in your contracts and have an annual certification. There is a code of ethics. All professionals need to be reminded. We all are reminded almost annually of our ethical responsibilities. There's nothing unusual about this, but the reminder is helpful. Amend the personnel ordinance to take out the language that says that the manager is the final authority for all activities of all employees. One could read that to say regardless of the rules, he gets direct or she gets direct staff to do what they want to do. That is not part of the council manager form of government. That gives him more authority than title. Restore standard personnel best practices. Exit interviews were eliminated by Mr. Steagle. need all open uh job postings, formal interview processes, objective bonus systems, adopt a whistleblowing pro whistleblower protection policy against retaliation. I believe that might be on your agenda tonight. um require written notice and justification for the change of addition of of of addition of positions, change of positions, and elimination of positions and the repurposing of positions. Direct the ma the town manager to review the size of the town manager's office. It it became much larger under Mr. Steagle than by historic standards. Mandate regular confidential employee surveys at least every three years so you have the data from the whole organization. Evaluate the cost advantages and disadvantages of a confidential employee tip line. Evaluate the cost advantages and disadvantages of using the organizational onbuds program for employees. It is used by some organizations and they like that. It gives employees a safe place to bring up conflicts and try to resolve them. Then develop a menu of employee engagement initiatives. Share with employees for feedback. Strengthen the relationships among employees, departments, and the manager's office. This brings me, as I know you're happy to know, my last slide. Um, but this may be the most important slide of all. First, in terms of a path forward, affirm the foundation. Kerry is financially strong despite all of these operational failures that we found. The town remains financially strong. It's rated by all bond agencies with AAA ratings for its general obligations bonds and its revenue bonds for water and sewer. And it gathers national recognition all the time. I was in listening to the parks and recreation presentation and that was just another example. The town is financially capable. You have employees who are committed to serving the public. I can't tell you how important that is. I'm sure you know these findings do not define you, but they are an opportunity to make town better. Enhance the council management model. As we've talked about, too much authority, discretion, and control concentrated in single uh office without adequate safeguards and reporting channels creates a vulnerability and a problem. Act promptly on lowcost recommendations. We tried to find some lowcost recommendations like just publishing information. even if they don't work, they haven't cost you much, but they are kind of an experiment to see whether that's helpful or not. And then um for those things that are going to take more time, de develop a deliberate plan that requires further study and then you can just check them off. And I know you're working on that. And then finally, rebuild confidence through transparency. respond in a measured, lawful, and forwardlook manner. The council's response to these findings, in our view, is itself an opportunity for the town to demonstrate its commitment to transparency and accountability. And none of you asked me questions. So, I guess it was a pretty it worked pretty well. Um, I am here if you have any further questions. >> Questions by council. I I have a question if you wouldn't mind. First of all, thank you so much for that, Mr. Cook. I mean, when when this all came to light, we were angry, we were upset, and you know, it's it's been helpful as we tried to to work through a plan, a short-term plan. It's helped me significantly to know that we would be able to develop a long-term plan based off of findings that that you'd bring to us um in the the office of the state auditor and you know without that sort of short-term long-term approach I don't know that this would have been a manageable situation that that's just that's how I see it. So I just want to thank you for for this and how thorough it was. Um, one thing I want to clarify for me and for for those that are are obviously paying a lot of attention of the 24 million in PECARD purchases, for example, that were um well, I believe that's the last two years of PECARD purchases. That's what that total was. That's been very widely reported and widely discussed. Um, can you give us a an idea of what percentage of those PECARD purchases were appropriate um that were not problematic or or on the on the reverse of that, what you know, what percentage seemed to be or proved to be questionable or inappropriate? >> So, [snorts] you you you put your finger on a really important um fact analysis and gathering. So uh the Forvis uh accounting firm had all 24,000 right and you use you use analytics million >> 24 million. Yeah. >> You said thousand >> sorry >> you said thousand it was million but we knew what you meant. >> All right my apologies. So they had this large number of transactions to look at. They use analytics and their judgment and and going through that. Many of those transactions are $10, $15, $20 and they're all over the organization. It's not worth one's effort to go and try to dig into 10, 15, $20 transactions. So >> please, please, >> please, please, >> ladies and gentlemen, please. >> So they use the analytics to focus in on the larger transactions. Most of those and many of those were Mr. Steagall's either his personal transactions, transactions he had other people submit on his behalf or transaction he encouraged. Then they looked at Mr. Steagle's transactions themselves and those numbers are in our report and they focused in on the three things I talked about. You don't have a receipt. You need to have a receipt under the system. You are ordering lots of material and goods on weekends from Amazon. You are having a number of those goods delivered to your home instead of to your to to town hall. Keep in mind that Mr. Steagall has not shared any information with us. He's not shared any justification in part because it's been publicly announced that somebody's looking at him. Law enforcement's looking at him. So, he's got a lawyer. He's not going to share any information. But based upon the information we have, we would say those are enough red flags for staff with the existing policy to say no receipt. [snorts] We're not going to process it. on weekends, explain it to us. On delivered to your house, explain it to us. None of that seemed to have occurred. It seemed to be that they just processed it because it was the town manager's expenditures. >> Thank you. That's helpful. Ladies and gentlemen, please please please >> ladies and gentlemen, please >> please. >> Other questions from council members. >> Also, I have a question. Uh we mentioned uh just now about the misuse of PE cards. So all the recommendation to change already in your recommendation, right? So all the uh actions we need to make already in place. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Your entire report is online. >> My entire reports our our entire report. It wasn't just me. I want to be clear about that. And our entire report is online and it has the details that I've tried to skim through this in terms of numbers and things. I want to thank you for presenting some of the options for the council recommendations. I want to um kind of ask our um interim town manager Russ. I believe we do have a dashboard where we have shared all of this now. So it's going to be tracked for completion on that dashboard with an ETA and different milestones. Is that correct Russ? >> Yes, that's correct. Yes. So everyone can follow >> U. It's these recommendations plus the ones from the state auditor plus um the the ones that came directly from the council members is um am I >> cherry Beckard and Wamble Dickinson? >> Okay, great. Thanks. >> Other thoughts and questions? Uh also I want to add that um we are um as council together we want to see not only the recommendations to be completed but we can do more and under the interim town manager Russ Overturn's leadership um I don't see anything uh related to Russ and that's g me confidence we can change and we can make a lot of changes in the short term and long term and continue to do that and I feel thank you John and thank you all the efforts of our residents. You have the right to say anything or we are the one going to change and you will see our actions and the first action is online moving forward dashboard include everything. If anyone has any question in the specific question we can answer. Um thank you. Thank you. Other questions, comments? >> I have a comment I'd like to share as well if if everybody's questions have been answered. Um, and and this isn't uh this isn't on the substance of what what you were saying necessarily, but I do want to share that, you know, we've we've discussed at great length that there have been significant operational failures, um, PECARD transactions, fund balance policy, um, the internal audit function. I was quite angry about that when I found out that that role had been removed. Um, you know, and I said this the other day. I was, you know, doing sort of an impromptu interview, but I understand that you say you have to say something seven times to make sure the message gets across. So, I'm just going to continue to repeat myself. Uh, we've got a lot of policies in place. They were in a lot of circumstances violated. Um, and what I see is one of our biggest problems here is we have we have a lot of policy. We do need some more. We need some updates. Um, but policy can be ignored. Uh, I shared uh yes or Tuesday night, we need to see the behaviors coupled with that policy. Um, and then I like the way you you put it, Mr. Cook, we need to have that transparency. So, what we need is to be able to point somewhere and say anybody that wants to see it can see it. Um because I think what happened here was these operational failures were um they were able to happen and happen for far too long because there was no sunshine. So that that I I really hear you on the transparency part of that. A lot of times when we talk about transparency, we treat it as though as long as we as a council or or leadership, as long as we, you know, say things into a microphone that we're being transparent. But what I believe is is true transparency to get us out of this mess is to really make sure that information is public at every turn. Um and so I I would support any and all um ideas that anybody has to be able to do that. Um and what we really need is teeth. And I think that's not necessarily um dangling punishment over anybody's heads. I don't think that modifies behavior. But I do believe the teeth when it comes to enforcing these policies is going to be that level of transparency. And I think it's absolutely critical. And in the spirit of you know transparency, I'll repeat again you know what I said into news cameras on Tuesday. It would be inappropriate for me to sit here and say you know I don't have any culpability. It is I you know I am part of the machine that of failure here and you know as an individual as a as a council member that represents everybody here in Kerry you know it wasn't good enough to say that that wasn't an appropriate I'm not going to you know I'm not going to um participate in that or take that thing or go on that trip. What I needed to do was shout from the rooftops stomp my feet and make a really big deal. and I failed to do that. And I can tell you going forward, you you you definitely have a council full of people here that are that are going to stomp their feet and shout from the rooftops. >> And it's and it's it's also my job to sit here and and take the heat. So that's what I'll continue to do. But I just want to share that. Any other questions or comments from council? >> Thank you, Mr. Cook. Thank you. We'll now move to We'll now move to our next item, public speaks out. We've included instructions for speaking at this forum online and on the printed agenda. There were three opportunities to participate in public speaks out through written comments by calling in or by attending here in person tonight. And if you are here in person, I would like to ask you to take seats in to the right if you can. Otherwise, uh, please line up as your name is called and the next speaker is called. That will help things move along quicker. Public speaks out. Speakers have three minutes each for their comments and may speak on any town related topic as long as it's not a public hearing. There's a threeminut time limit that will be enforced. We have a timer on the podium. Starts off with a green light. When it turns yellow, you have 30 seconds remaining. And when it's expired, it will flash red. At that point, not to be rude, but to be fair to all of our speakers, I will interrupt you and let you know that your time has expired. I would ask speakers be respectful in their comments and direct those comments to the entire council and not to an individual. I would also ask that everyone in the audience please understand that this is a business meeting and respect that this is a business meeting. Do not applaud, make remarks from your seats, use props, or do anything else that may distract from the meeting. So now is the time for public speaks out and I'll call on the clerk to share the number of written comments and call on any registered speakers. We have no call-in speakers, six written comments and 11 inerson registered speakers. Our first speaker is Nancy K followed by Marie and Syria. H sadly I'm not a public speaker so you just have to >> Could you move to your left please? >> You'll have to bear with me. I apologize in advance. >> So good evening. My name is Nancy Jinter K and I live at 105 Ashman Court. I want you to know that I love the town of Kerry and I'm excited about the mixeduse housing being created under the Imagine Kerry plan using public and private financing. >> I don't know yet. >> I'm here for Amberwood. Yes, I am. >> That's a public hearing. You'll get more time. >> Wait, wait. Okay. So, my turn. >> Not. You're okay. You're okay. It's hard to understand this. I bought myself some time. Okay. So, you'll call me back. >> Okay. Great. Thank you. So, please, please, please. >> All right. Our next um register speaker is Marie and Sarah, followed by Rob Jones. >> Good evening. My name is Marie and Sarah. I live at 407 Clearport Drive, Kerry. I have lived here for approximately 20 years. I am an attorney for approximately 40. And I've worked for 20 years in local government. I want to thank the town of Kerry employees, not the ones that went to the $4,164 dinner, not the ones that have been eating lunch every day on the county. [applause] I want to thank the [cheering] employees that make this and do frontline workers that make it a good place to live. The state auditor's report said it was a culture of hostility and deference to leadership. He reported that multiple employees spoke of having observed something they thought they should report, but they had no one to report it to. Of Car's 189 policies, only 15 apply to employees. One EEO statement mentions reporting a complaint to the town manager. How did that work out for Carrie employees? There is no policy addressing harassment, anti-retaliation, whistleblower protection are among the policies recommended by the state. But I want to add one more. a grievance process. All of our neighbors, city of Raleigh, city of Durham, County of Durham, County of Wake that you sit in have a grievance process. You can cure it tonight. WMBLE recommended an obsman. Name outside council to hear grievances that can be um investigated. If they are the direct reports, you can send those to outside counsel. I hope you adopt all of the recommendations of the state auditor and the WMBLE report including wherein the WBLE report recommended examining the structure of the manager's office which was quote expanded in size and reach put another way an overstaffed topheavy division or another extravagance. The culture of extravagance revealed in the state auditor's report has brought widespread public disgrace to the town and to the Democratic party that I am a proud member of that I have volunteered many many years in these 20 years. And I wish and I call upon the legislature would respond by passing a local act to allow a recall election in [cheering] Remove those offenses here that in 2024, 2021, 2025, we're complicit by accepting expensive dinners, car service, travel, tuition, Ray-B band, sunglasses, and so much more. All of which contradicts the most recent feigned ignorance of excesses by as reported by the state auditor. I do not agree with Republicans very often, but the state auditor nailed it. >> I'm sorry to inform you, your time is expired. >> That's right. Thank you so much. [applause] [cheering] All right. Our [applause] next our next speaker is our next speaker is Rob Jones followed by Sharon Tobias. >> Our next speaker is Rob Jones followed by Sharon Tobias. Is >> Rob Jones here? Go to the next speaker, please. >> Sharon Tobias. >> Well, that's a tough act to follow, but I'm going to try. I have my notes, but I think I'm going to table it. I went down the rabbit hole of the Pecard, and probably the most oversight right now I can find is the three minutes I'm limited to. Anyhow, with all due respect about the Wample report, as somebody who is based in science, research, and evidence-based practice, when you limit what you ask for, you get back what you're looking for. So, when you limit to 28 employees, you didn't find the $750 Luganos charge on a Sunday. You didn't find the Pinehurst Brewery. You didn't see almost 800,000 worth of Amazon charges. What's beh [laughter] >> I'm nervous. >> Um, >> but how do you control that? Is it pecards linked to personal Amazon accounts? How do you know what the town bought stays in the town? How do you know the $120,000 spent at Michaels stayed in the town? How do you know $700,000 spent multiple times at Lowe's stayed in the town? It's not the way a PECARD system is designed to work. You've got split charging on multiple purchases at a printer. I'm sorry, I'm so nervous. Um to the tune of $8,08 for four purchases. I can just pose the question, but most likely was that hiding some sort of non-compete where you didn't put it out for competitive bidding. How do you control and leverage your buying power? 55P cards went dark when Sean Steagle stepped down. But with all due respect, you only get what you want to find unless you go into it with an open mind and say, "Investigate all the pecards." And that's why I had to table my notes when I heard there was no concerning other transactions. What about the Venmo to a person to the tune of $9,000? >> That means somebody's PE card linked to their personal Venmo. There's a lot more work to do because your taxpayers can't continue to shoulder the burden. >> We can't. [cheering] >> [applause] >> Good. You know, you good question and I wish I could remember more of the totals. Do you realize you have a $32,000 transaction to gift cards? Who's Who's got the log? But my point being is your problem transcends 28 people. There's people out there using Amazon CODs cards that that's my Yankee accent. CODs that you can't track. Where are the receipts? I've requested the receipts for Pinehurst Brewery because it's the same PECAR on Saturdays. Do you Oh, shoot. Eight $8,000 food purchase at Lazy Days. >> Done at the food trucks. >> Thank you. >> Sorry. >> All right. [applause] Our [applause] our next speaker speaker is Michael Anderson followed by Linda Shaw. Mayor, council members, dancing queens. My name is Michael Anderson. I [cheering] am a Wake County resident, a local small business owner, tax professional, and an enrolled agent. I'm not just speaking for myself here tonight. I am representing the dozens of hardworking taxpayers who trust me with their tax return preparation, planning, and representing them before federal, state, and local taxing authorities. Every single day I sit across my desk from clients and advise them that they must follow the rules, pay their fair share of taxes. And frankly, you all are making me look like an idiot. >> I I tell my clients to scrape together their tax payments just for you to take their hard-earned money and blow it because you are too lazy, too entitled, or too incompetent to do your jobs. [cheering] >> Let's talk about your priorities. You jacked up property taxes on my clients by 5%. And then had a gall to push for another 11 11% hike. Meanwhile, you sit back and collect an $800 monthly car allowance for a part-time gig. Taxpayers are essentially paying for your car to drive around town you are actively failing to manage. Throw in your $2,400 annual cell phone and internet allowances, and it's no wonder you were completely clueless that the town's emergency reserves had tanked below mandatory minimums. You were too busy cashing your own checks to look at the balance sheet. You expect us to believe you are just helpless victims misled by a mastermind town manager? It's pathetic. The auditor's report proves you were not victims. You are willfully ignorant enablers. [cheering and applause] >> The report explicitly states you deliberately delegated financial matters away so you wouldn't have to deal with them. Under this government, you are an elected body. You set the policies. You were supposed to see the operations. You couldn't be bothered to oversee the budget, but you definitely found time to spend over $121,000 on video production at your Wilmington retreat, including a $34,000 documentary about your own choreographed dancing queen dance video. Let's not forget the $37,000 of public money quietly siphoned off to pay for a sitting me council member's graduate tuition. You tell the town you didn't know what was happening. Give us a break. You just didn't care as long as you got your paycheck. Playing dumb is not a defense. It is a confession of gross incompetence. You abandon your fiduciary duty because acting as a mindless rubber stamp was easier than doing the work you were elected to do. Stop passing the buck. If you you are a disgrace to public service and this town. If you lack the spine to read a budget and protect this town, or if you were in that dancing queen video, resign immediately. Otherwise, my clients and I will gladly throw you out at the ballot box. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thanks. >> Our neur [applause] [cheering] >> Our next speaker is Linda Shaw, followed by Andrew Hos. Oh, you're Linda. Okay. Yeah. Okay. We'll go to an um Andrew. >> I'm sorry. >> Um Linda is for the Amberwood, so we'll move her to that list. And our next speaker is Andrew Hos, followed by Elliot Tardiff. >> Dear members of the town council and citizens of Kerry, my name is Andrew Hos. Last month, I stood here and used this public forum in a way that dishonored you, the purpose of this meeting, and the convictions I claim should shape my life. I also spoke in a way that was deeply disrespectful to many in the our immigrant and Hispanic communities. For that, I'm sincerely sorry. You provided this forum so that citizens can contribute to the good of our community. Instead of doing that, I used my time in a way that created confusion, division, and hurt. I misuse both the opportunity and the trust that comes with speaking before this council and I apologize. In a misguided attempt to express support for law enforcement officers, I chose to read the script of a satirical video. I wanted to communicate one message, but instead communicated something very different. My words contributed to rhetoric that many understandably heard as racist and demeaning. While I did not write them, those were the words I chose to speak publicly, and I take full responsibility for them. I acted without wisdom, without counsel, and without prayer. Looking back, I see how pride convinced me that being provocative would accomplish something good. Instead, it revealed poor judgment and caused real harm. As a Christian, I know Jesus commands us to love our neighbors. This concludes speaking about every person with dignity and honor because each person bears the image of God. My words failed to reflect that calling. They reflected frustration instead of love and they produced division where I should have sought understanding and peace. I'm deeply grieved that I have had to confront the painful reality that what I said was not does not reflect the man that I want to be or the Lord I profess to follow. And that realization has been humbling. I apologize to this council, to the immigrant and Hispanic communities, to my church, to my family, to the ministry where I used to serve and my co-workers, to my friends, and to anyone who was hurt or disappointed by what I said. I cannot undo my words. I cannot erase the hurt they caused. I can only acknowledge my failure, ask for your forgiveness, and commit myself to speaking with greater humility, wisdom, and love in the future. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to return today. I remain grateful to live in a country where we have freedom to speak and where we also have the responsibility to own our words when we fail. Thank you for your time. May God bless the town of Kerry. [applause] [applause] Our next speaker is Elliot Tardiff followed by Evan um Crockett. Before I begin, I'd like to say I'm right at three minutes. So, please members of the town council, Mr. Overton, Mr. Mayor, good to see you. Peace be with you and yours. My name is Elliot Tardiff, Kerry residents since 2014. My thoughts arising out of the published reports of recent weeks are too voluminous to put into three minutes, which is why I've provided them them to you on the written record. dissembling the sanitary language of your response and getting down to the dirty truth. It wasn't just systems that failed to prevent this. Laws did. People did. You did. My trust in government has been broken now at the local level, too. Holistic changes discussed in the dashboard and not are needed to restore it. Here's two. First, the town manager town council model of government has been rightfully scrutinized, but state law section 160A of the general statutes specifically stipulates this structure for all local governments. As we have seen here and elsewhere, this model imbuss too much power unto a person who is accountable to too few and unaccountable to too many. If Mr. Boliac were to perform the same rigorous review he did here unto all other local governments across the state, not one excluded. How many more carries would he find? This model excludes the weight of the town's people and is too vulnerable to corruption. And Jones Street must reform section 160A accordingly. I have written my representatives urging them to do exactly this. This email is attached to my written comments. Second, this is a town of nearly 200,000 people staffed by hundreds, all charged with prosecuting the town's annual budget, now over $570 million annually and rising, same as our property taxes, but overseen by Adis of part-time elected leaders. While this is the rule, not the exception, I ask you, would these events have been nipped in the bud if you had a regular presence in town hall? As it was, the genesis of these revelations came from staff abandoning the chain of command to demand your audience. The business of this large dynamic town commands its elected leaders to have a full-time commitment to the same. This means making K's elected leaders full-time employees of this town and with a regular presence in town hall. Work posture begets culture and it starts with you. 12minute response times, the botched trolley car purchase, books, and documented theater of self-indulgence. These are part and parcel to your records for which there will be accountability and judgment come election day, but are also broader indictments on the part-time nature of this arrangement. Time is the only true fix. Thank you for yours. >> Thank you. [applause] >> Our next um speaker is Evan Crockett, followed by Hannne Williams. Uh, good evening. My name is Evan Crochet. I'm a Kerry resident and owner of By Crochet Media Lab, a local video production company. A Facebook post I made recently led to great conversations with council members, and I thank council members Craig and Con Johnson for taking the time to share their insight on my post. I'm standing here today to talk about restoring public trust after the state auditor's report. as it relates to my expertise in video production. The absurdity of those findings drove me to put my thoughts on record today regarding the $35,000 taxpayer funded documentary Dancing Queen, a case study. I can't believe I just said that. Taxpayers should have never foot the bill for an ego-filled project like that. A halfhour video like that proves a culture of self-importance has taken root in upper management and in the town's leadership. Top administrators living in privilege while overworked residents and staff suffer in silence in an unaffordable, increasingly unaffordable town. As a documentarian, I know what video production costs in time and resources. Watching leadership boast on camera about taking time out of their workday for from their jobs shows me just how disconnected they are from people like me. It is truly an unbelievable display of government waste and everyone involved should be ashamed and embarrassed that a highle production was wasted on this venture. The former town manager was shown the door several months ago. But look who's who's still in their roles even though they were heavily featured in the documentary. All these several of these people several of these people earn well over $200,000 a year. There is a glaring double standard. If a worker making Wake County's average of $70,000 committed these ethics violations and breaches, they'd be fired on the spot. >> My question is very simple. Who else knew about the cost? $35,000 is 6 months of wages for the average resident spent on 30 minutes of vanity. Whether through active participation or willful ignorance, failing to ask where that money went isn't a last lapse in judgment. It's total negligence of duty. When people who are hired as legal, financial, strategy, and HR guard rails participate in this nonsense, it's like referees putting on jerseys to play for the team. There's nobody left to enforce the rules. Anyone complicit should do the right thing and resign from their roles. >> And I welcome [applause] I welcome the ongoing criminal investigation. And I hope the truth prevails. >> And I'm not here just to scold. We need to reallocate this marketing budget to establish something I'm calling the Kerry Community Storytelling Initiative. Just as live streaming council meetings yields a massive return on trust, building an infrastructure for local storytelling is the logical way to spend marketing dollars in the town of Kerry. Instead of handing out unmonitored credit cards with zero oversight, let's create a quarterly application process for local media LLC's to compete for roles like this. pair creators with high school classes for youth mentorship and point that production back to our town. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for your time. [applause] >> Our last speaker is Hen Williams. Good evening, mayor, town council, madame clerk. I am profoundly disappointed at what I have engaged in this council and I have given my advice privately which recently has ignored and much of what you are witnessing tonight I forewarned you about and I gave steps on how to mitigate some of what you see tonight, but this is what your hand has called for. I adantly object to the myth being propagated that the substance of the investigation can be placed entirely on the former town manager. >> [applause] >> It is very truthful that he must answer for his own conduct. But placing all responsibility on one former employee would be a broad li a broad leap of Olympic proportions. We should call him King Sean because he he had unilateral authority that I had never seen before. The mayor, you have been in office for 20 years. It is not not only an insult to these great residents of this incredible town, but only your own self to say that you can be in office with that much experience and allow and and allow something like that to take place. The practic the practical reality is that the report identifies challenges, operational dynamics, insufficient performance metrics, limited council oversight and also what I wanted to mention is this uh conference Tuesday. It was a tragic lack of humility within a system that allowed these circumstances to continue. the auditor and I think we all need to applaud him. That was an unbelievable and I am in research science too. The detail to that investigation needs to be admired and committed uh uh uh commended specifically the specifically uh when he mentioned this council. This is the quote from that report. The investigation enabled this approach and allowed it to continue. >> That's that that was in the report of the state auditor. To my expectation, the town must now focus on building out the oversight function which was mentioned. Establish additional safeguards against waste and retaliation and ens and ensuring that no official may act unilaterally outside clearly defined parameters. I respectfully request >> Thank you. >> a specifically scheduled town hall style meeting where residents may confer directly with the mayor and council receive substit substantive answers and evaluate the town's corrective mandate before public confidence continues on a downward trajectory. >> Thank you. >> [applause] >> That's all our registered speakers. >> How much time is left in public speaks out? >> We started at 7:24 and we are currently at 7:50. >> Okay. If you would like to speak at public speaks out, now's your opportunity. Please, I would ask that you line up to the right there. When you come to the podium, please give your name. >> Hi. Um, I'm Mark Zumbach. I'm a Kerry resident since 1967. Um I won't re reiterate a lot of the things that have been said already, but I do want to make a comment about moving forward and that is what I see as one of the biggest problems with um Mr. seagull is that um he was a superstar and the council was blinded by a rain maker and a superstar and they turned a whole lot over to him and I just really want to caution we not do that moving forward. Look within the town. We don't need to go outside and find some flashy person who shown up in the media and bring them in and hand over the keys to them. Um, and then the other point I wanted to make is of the findings, I think the most horrifying finding is that the surveys of town employees were stopped 10 years ago. And I mean I every place I've ever worked that's an annual annual mustd do. And it's not just been a culture of privilege in the town, but it's been a culture of bullying. And I know that. And I'm not an employee. And I know if you were not kissing Sean's ham, if you were not his psychopant, you were on the outs. And it's um it's ugly. It's really, really ugly. And I just really want to encourage I want to add one more thing. Um town council implement a policy of taking an employee to lunch every Friday. You know, I mean, they don't see you guys. Um, I've talked with several town uh employees who said the last mayor they saw walk through the halls was Glenn Lang. Um, so you're not making your not making yourselves known in the in the in the town halls here and it shows. Thank you. [applause] Uh, good evening, Mayor Weinre and members of the council. My name is Todd McGee and I'm a 22-year resident of Kerry. Like many, I am concerned about what has happened in the last year in our town government. Those concerns grew when the state auditors report came out and revealed widespread problems that go much further than an outofcrol town manager. I am here tonight because I fear the town council will try to use Shaunsteagle as a convenient scapegoat and not address some of the issues I would like to draw your attention to. First is the sheer number of town employees who have PECards. Second is the lacks oversight of these cards. Third is the gross misuse of these cards by employees who should know better. I have no doubt Shawn set a terrible example, but that doesn't excuse those who followed his lead. Apparently, many employees were and perhaps still are convinced town pec cards are their personal get a lunch free card. The auditor's report noted many trips to Sassul Academy Street Beastro and Craft Public House. Favorite locations for town employees are the Peck and Plume restaurant and Scratch Kitchen and Tap Room. Both were visited 128 times over the two years covered by the auditor's report. In other words, 11 times a month, the taxpaying citizens of Kerry provided a free lunch for employees at either of those two restaurants. This is unacceptable. The town of Kerry's Pecard policy states, "Items and/or services to be purchased are for the official use of the town of Kerry. I would like to know how paying for employee meals at upscale eating establishments can be considered an official use." If you look at the auditor's report, card 529 belonged to Steagall. In the two years, he racked up almost $3,000 in non-travel related meals. However, he was not the worst offender. Card 614 racked up almost $6,000 in local dining expenses with 72 different visits. That's three per month. The charges were often for more than $100, meaning at least three or four employees were in on this. Many speakers here are expressing their shock and anger. I share those sentiments. But I am not here just to vent. I am here to ask you to take two actions. First, adopt a policy banning any employee from paying for any meal with the town pecard effective immediately. Second, I ask you to review the local dining expenses found on these PECards back to January 1st, 2021, and require employees to reimburse the town for these costs unless they can provide [cheering] >> [applause] >> unless they can provide documentation to prove they served a public purpose. Tax dollars are not a luxury to spend on personal vanity projects like videos or books or for extravagances like limousines and luxury suites. Nor are they to be used to pay for employees dining habits. There seems to be a sense of entitlement among some staff and on behalf of car's taxpaying citizens, I ask you to help correct this behavior. Thank you. >> Good job. >> [applause] >> Good evening, town council. Uh, my name is Mark Stolman. I'm a Kerry taxpayer and a resident in downtown Kerry. Um, I'm recently retired as a 30-year North Carolina certified public accountant. I also sat in your chairs for 10 years uh in the town of Morrisville recently. You know, in the old days when town folks were really upset, they'd come to town hall with torches and pitchforks. [laughter] I'm coming forward with something a lot more scary. That's my tax bill I just received from the town of Kerry. [applause] I think most people accept taxes as a way of life. They accept paying them every year, but they should really be focused on the three Ps of municipal government. Planning, parks and wreck, public safety, and public works. Outside of that, you should really question what your money is being spent on. You know, it's not okay to buy Ray-B band sunglasses, $200 steak dinners, banana foster desserts, and gourmet popcorn on our dime. It's not okay to have the taxpayers fund your graduate tuition. >> What about you, Lori? It's not okay to spend a million dollars plus on unsellable land because it's your favorite apartment developer who's selling it. >> It's not okay. It's not okay to fund an egotistical book about how great your town manager is and is the blueprint for how to misspend millions of dollars. It's also not okay to spend hundreds [snorts] of thousands of dollars on a dancing queen video and especially not okay to spend more money on a video on how you made the video of dancing queens. This is merely the tip of the iceberg. I think if you go back enough years, you're going to find that the abuse was in the tens of millions of dollars. If you think this is okay, I think you should rethink your your public service career. [applause] >> Just think of the money that you could have spent on raises for your police and fire. Think about the tax rates that you could have lowered if you had not spent this money. >> The town the town manager did not do this on his own. There are a lot of town leaders and staff leaders that let this happen. the mayor. >> Sadly, >> sadly, there have been no formal apologies, only tonedeaf tax increases. One councilman, one council member said, "Recently, I regret that I didn't ask harder questions." These are not hard questions. This is common sense. A tough question is, "Why haven't we seen more retirements and firings and recognitions? Please do a better job with our tax dollars. I'm retired and on a fixed income and I can't pay for any more of this nonsense. >> Thank you. [applause] [applause] >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. I'm Renee Miller >> and unfortunately I have been ill um the past month, but I did have an opportunity to review some of the auditor's report and one item in particular jumped out at me, one that you have particularly benefited from and that is the $82 a month that you receive in car allowance. That equals at the current rates 1,55 miles we are paying for you to drive. In one case, it means 1,758 trips to town hall for one of the council members. I believe that for three months, you should log your miles just like any other employee would. And those logs should be publicly posted and then averaged to reset this amount to something that's more reasonable. Thank you. [applause] >> How much time do we have left? >> We are at 8:00. So 24 minutes. >> If you would like to speak at public speaks out, we I would invite you forward. Now is your opportunity. Anyone else for public speaks out >> just on this topic or >> just it's any topic that's not a public hearing. >> Amber public hearing. >> Yes, Amberwood is a public hearing. Anyone else? Okay, we'll close public speaks out. We'll move to the consent agenda which is item four. If you're following along, for the benefit of people watching our meeting streaming, I will take a moment to review our consent agenda items. One vote approves these items. On the consent agenda, we have approval of minutes. Resolution approving act 41, amendment to Chattam Kerry joint land use plan. Resolution calling for public hearing for 259 Jacobs Creek bid award for the Swift Creek Pump Station electrical improvement project. Request for referral for further consideration from planning and zoning board. Update policy 143, rules and procedures for the town Kerry Town Council Salesforce licensing purchase for fiscal year 2027 and approval of an amendment to the meeting schedule. Would council members like to pull any of these items for discussion? If not, I would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. >> So moved. >> Second. There's a motion and a second discussion. All in favor, please say I. I. >> Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously. And that takes us to public hearings. Same rules apply public hearings that apply for public speaks out except speakers will now have five minutes each for their comments. Our first and second item will be presented together. 26 AO4 which is 719 Pard Sears Road annexation and 26 RZ4 which is 719 Pitter Sears re road reszoning. Principal planning principal planner Rachel Smith will introduce the item and council will not take action on this item tonight. It will be referred to our planning and zoning board for their review and recommendation and return to council in a few months. Mrs. Smith. >> Thank you. Good evening, council. This is a public hearing on a request to annex and apply initial carry zoning to approximately 5.9 acres at 719 Pittard Sears Road. The property is not in car's extr territorial jurisdiction, so concurrent annexation of the property is required with the resoning. Staff recommends that action on the proposed annexation 26A04 be deferred until the resoning returns to council for final decision. The site is located in Chattam County on the south side of Pitter Sears Road approximately a quarter mile east of the American Tobacco Trail. The site is west of the Carolina Preserve at Amberly neighborhood and is north and east of property owned by the Army Corps of Engineers. Car's GIS does not indicate stream buffer is located on the site. Field determination of such features is required at the time of development plan review. A streetside trail was recently constructed along the site's frontage on Pittard Sears Road as part of a capital project. Pitter Sears Road is identified as a two-lane collector on Car's planned roadway wids map. The site is currently within Chattam County and is zoned to Chattam County residential 1 and the applicant proposes an initial carry zoning of residential 12 conditional use or R12 CU. The zoning conditions include limiting the development to a maximum of 11 detached dwellings. Every home will have at least a twocar garage wired for 60 amps to support EV charging and the developer will dedicate right ofway and improve Pitter Sears Road to all applicable standards. A preliminary analysis against the Imagine Carry Community Plan found the policies from multiple chapters apply along with guidance from the Cadam Kerry joint land use plan. The joint plan generally recommends lower density moving from east to west towards Jordan Lake supported by corresponding land use sub areas. The subject site is in the low density residential sub area which recommends one to two gross units per acre. The proposed density of approximately 1.86 units per acre fits this guidance. Surrounding lowdensity residential sub area developments are under two dwellings per acre with higher densities in the medium density sub area which includes the Carolina preserve at Amberly neighborhood to the east and to the south. The staff report provides further detail on the joint plan and the surrounding development pattern. Policies within the live shape and enriched chapters of the imaginary community plan also apply. We note that the area is largely surrounded by existing Kerry detached dwelling neighborhoods. The proposed use, density, and lot size may support the live and shape chapter's policies on infill development and appropriate transitions. For the enriched chapter, the commitment to wiring garages for future electric vehicle charging may support policies on sustainable energy practices. In terms of move chapter policies, the proposed resoning includes a commitment to dedicate right-ofway and to improve Pittard Sears road to all applicable standards. However, the developer has declined to offer two additional commitments recommended by staff that could help meet move chapter objectives for pedestrian safety. a prohibition on direct driveway access to Pitted Sears Road, which is a best practice for collector streets and the provision of sidewalks on both sides of subdivision streets. A neighborhood meeting was held in April and 16 members of the public attended. Questions and concerns were related to storm water and drainage, perimeter buffers, tree clear tree clearing and conservation, street connectivity, and the proposed housing product and development details. There have been approximately a dozen inquiries since the notice of the neighborhood meeting and then the notice of this public hearing, including very similar questions and concerns generally regarding the proposed density and lot sizes, the size and architecture of the proposed homes, storm water connectivity and roadway improvements, preservation of trees, perimeter buffers, and also the condition and maintenance of Pitted Sears Road. Notice of the public hearing was mailed to property owners within 800 ft of the subject's site. This exceeds the state and carries LDO requirements and signs were posted on the site. This concludes my presentation. Andy Porter, the applicant's representative, is here to provide comments and following the public hearing, I am available for your questions. >> Thank you, Miss Smith. I'll invite the applicant forward to this. Good evening, mayor, members of town council. My name is Andy Porter. I'm vice president and a landscape architect with TMTLA Associates, a local landscape architecture and land planning firm in Durham. Also here with me this evening in the gallery, we have Lauren Hicks. She's a town of Kerry resident. Um she's also with Dunh Hill Investors property owner. Thank you Rachel for the great overview covering the basis of the request to annex and apply tanicary initial zoning. I will keep my comments brief this evening. Um Rachel covered all the the specifics so I don't necessarily want to go over all that again. Um but I do have a few quick points to recap. So the property is one existing parcel. It's on the east side of Pittard Sears Road. It's approximately 5.9 acres in size. There are no existing homes on the property. There are no existing wetlands or streams, which is unusual. Um, the existing Chattam County zoning is R1, residential district 1. And this is one of the last parcels on Pittard Sears Road that has direct frontage on Pittard Sears Road. As many of you may be aware, annexation and initial zoning was recently approved earlier this year for the property directly north of Pitted Sears Road. That property was reszoned for R8CU with a commitment of no more of 23 dwelling units. I mentioned this for comparison of our current request with annexation. We're requesting zoning of R12 CU conditional use district. The R12 zoning requires a minimum 12,000 square foot square foot lot. And I also want to mention Dunhill Investor is the property owner. They are uh they also uh develop the Dunhill subdivision that's on Pard Road. Many of you may be aware. Um the lots within Dunnh Hill, the existing subdivision are 12,000 square foot plus or minus. So that subdivision is very comparable. Um, and we anticipate an equal housing product to be constructed should this get approved. We held neighborhood meeting on April 15th, and we've worked with planning and transportation staff on the current commitments. Uh, we look forward to work with staff and neighbors as we continue to move forward with the annexation and resoning process, and we're happy to receive feedback from town council and neighbors this evening. Thank you, and I'm here for any questions. Thank you. So, now it's time for the public hearing for the Pittard Sears resoning and annexation. And I'll call on the clerk to share the number of written comments and call on any registered speakers. >> Um, we have no um call-in speakers, no registered speakers, and five written comments. And they were provided to council at their seat on the agenda and emailed beforehand. >> Thank you. If you are here and would like to speak at this pitter Sears reszoning annexation, now is your opportunity and I would invite you forward. Anyone to speak at this public hearing? Yes. >> Hi, I was one of the >> Could you move to your left, please? >> Thank you. >> I was one of the residents that got one of the notices and uh my home is located very close to this. My biggest question about this. >> Could you give us your name, please? >> Yes. Sorry, >> that's okay. >> Saliage. Um, so Peter's Road is very narrow. There's not much except for where you walk on as a pedestrian. >> Um, the area just below where this is being annexed is where the tobacco trail is. There are a lot of pedestrians over there and people cross those areas a lot. Uh my biggest concern would be whether the developer is going to invest in limiting the amount of traffic and making sure the pedestrians are safe in you know in doing this type of uh I know that in doing just a little limited amount of research the type of uh zoning change that's going to happen makes it less restrictive for the developer. And so my concern would be what is going to be done to protect pedestrians? There's a lot of uh children that ride bikes in this area. So, that would be my comment. >> Thank you. Anyone else to speak at this public hearing? >> Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing, open it up to council members for questions or comments. >> A couple, but I guess they're question mostly questions. Can you speak a little bit more about the core of the Army Corps of Engineers and what can be built there? the land that's south of that or maybe it's east. So shown in white generally here is the Army Corps of Engineers property and I think that this the flood plane map would actually illustrate this pretty well as well. two generally in here. So you can see that this is flood plane in here >> and then stream buffer running up in here and so uh that would typically not be a development parcel [clears throat] due to those environmental features. So are there extra requirements for the developer um for runoff for you know obviously our storm water laws already apply but is there anything special that needs to be done because it abuts the Army Corps land. >> Um so I I was prepped by our stormwater staff uh for this potential question. Um so specifically it's not it's not the Army Corps property in and of itself because it's owned by Ar the Army Corps. I think the reason they own it probably is related to the fact that it's it's watershed. Um but the proposed future development, it's within the Jordan Lake wershed overlay. Um so the development will be required to capture runoff um with an on-site storm water control measure or SCM. Um that would also include all of the rightway improvements. Um there are also impervious limits established for the individual lots themselves. Um this will be recorded on the plat. Um it will depend a little bit on the size and type of the SCM. Um and also runoff control will be required for the 1, two, 5, 10, and 100 year storms as well. Does that help to answer your question? >> That's it. Yeah. And there's we received some complaints or concerns about the runoff that's currently happening up at RC. Can you speak to that? Is there is there additional planning going on? So I think you might be referring to a couple of um written comments as well as a video if it was provided. I have shared that video and actually um watched it in real time with stormwater um staff. So the development plan reviewers who are responsible for reviewing any future development such as this are aware of that video um and will take into account the information that was provided by the residents both in written and visual form. >> Okay. In their review. >> Thank you. >> Other questions, concerns? I have a question. So I'm trying to look for that information on our town's website. I'm not able to find it. It's related to 2505 P Street Spit Sears Road zoning that was approved um about 6 months ago and they their project was very similar. It was all detached dwelling. I believe it was 4ome acres. Um, I thought, and I see this on on the map that you're showing right now on screen, and I could be totally wrong, and it could be totally that, you know, I'm phasing out right now, but I thought um it was R12 CU that was approved. So, the request actually started for TRCU at the time of public hearing. Throughout the process, it was um revised to be R8CU, which you see on your screen. It's this property here in the green hatching. That R8CU was the approved zoning for that property. >> Okay. And right next to it is a parcel that the builder at that time suggested that they will they have purchased it and it'll come back to the council. they plan to allocate that property for storm water resolution, you know, because at that time there was lot of feedback related to storm water. Is it possible that this applicant could work with um that applicant and perhaps leverage some of that? Um >> we can certainly provide contact information for both parties. >> Okay. I don't have any more questions. >> Other questions, comments? I just wanted to urge the applicant to reconsider the two pedestrian safety recommendations by staff. >> Actually have questions on those. Um is so would the applicant build put sidewalks in on one side only of the streets in the development >> on local streets? Car's regulations only require a sidewalk on one side. >> Okay. And can you tell me are there driveway cuts allowed in the recently approved I believe it's the RACU to the north? Are there driveway cuts um allowed in the the zoning we approved or whatever the zoning is on the properties near there? So I'm wondering how dissimilar it is to to for this property to be allowed to have driveway cuts on that collector road as opposed to the neighboring properties. >> So I just confirmed with Aaron that there was no written zoning condition prohibiting collears as a collector on both sides for both sides purposes. Um however typically it is a best practice. We do we have other regulations that tend to um prohibit direct driveway access to collectors, but it can happen. It's not a direct prohibition, but there are certain standards that that discourage them. >> Okay. >> Can you dumb that down for me? So, so they're technically allowed, but there's probably other requirements that make them exceptionally difficult to do. Good evening, council. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Um, so depending on the type of collector, they are limited to the what you reference as driveway cuts. Um, they are limited to the number of driveways or um street accesses onto the the collector. This is a um NCDOT owned road and so they would have to get those permits through NCDOT. and we have been working with both of the applicants to make sure that their um that their driveways align with one another. >> If this was a carryowned road, would we be able to prohibit this development with a with if it included driveway cuts onto that road? >> Our same collector requirements would apply here. >> Okay. So, the exception here is primarily because it's an NC DOT road and we can't regulate driveway cuts on an NC DOT road in in a project. Well, we can guide that and work with NCDOT on what the appropriate safety access should be and we have our required standards which they would be required to meet. Um, unless in this instance there may be limited access to a remaining lot that may not be able to have internal connectivity which is the condition that staff had mentioned. >> Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the clarity. Uh, and I did want to just bring um attention to the questions. there's uh in the written comments that we received here, particularly Mr. Sullivan, and there's some others. They're asking um I think pretty reasonable questions that they'd like some answers to. I mean, you know, obviously this is the public hearing. This is the ideal time to answer those questions. And I I don't know that all of these are, you know, when they ask about architectural requirements of the home. I think that's, you know, broadly part of our our our ordinances in general. Um, but you know, a timeline for development. I know that's not something that's typically provided to us, but what about maximum and minimum size of the homes to be built? Is there a minimum or maximum that's applied in a situation like this? >> So, that's typically not something that we would regulate >> just lot size, right? >> We would regulate lot size. Correct. And I I did respond to Mr. Sullivan's email yesterday. >> Excellent. Okay. Thank you. And that that's all I had. I just, you know, the the I've driven on that road. the driveway cuts give me pause. That just seems like a really strange place for a driveway. It um you know it reminds me of probably some of the challenges people who have cuts on some of our other thoroughares you know like Maynard or Walnut where they probably wish they they didn't >> or it was a different road when they built it. >> It was very different when they built it but we know this is a collector and we know the traffic isn't going to reduce on that. I know council member Bonsel, you probably have a perspective on that as well. I just [laughter] don't it just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. >> I I agree with you and I think definitely some of these comments um thank you for pointing that out. totally phased out obviously clearly after the first section of our discussion but >> um there's another question that's here about the buffer um it's by Dennis Curten it's talking about tree preservation tree planning construction protection and the buffer. Could you talk about the buffer? I don't know if we covered that in this presentation. >> Sure. >> They mentioned about 30 foot buffer >> that for privacy. >> Yes. So, several of the comments you have received talk about the Carolina preserves buffer. So, that's a 30-foot type A. Some of the emails said type B, but it is a type A. I confirmed that. Um, so they have an existing 30-foot type A as well. They have a fence. Um the requirement adjacent to this property to be provided um by this developer um would be a 20 foot type B. So that is not as high of a planting standard as the type A. The type A is typically a little bit um denser, >> but the applicant could voluntarily do 20 feet of type A for a combined buffer of 50 feet of type A, which I think would probably >> um >> go a long way with their neighbors and Mhm. >> to the east, right? >> They could >> they could they could they could do that. >> They could offer that. >> And that was uh I had a similar comment. So, thank you to my colleagues for for beating me to it. It's just I'm looking at the satellite map right now and it looks like there's considerable tree canopy to the south and west of the parcel. And as I encourage every applicant, being particularly mindful of preserving as much of that canopy as possible. And so maybe some voluntary conditions could help address that. >> Any other questions coming? >> One other is it is it possible to not have driveway cuts? For instance, is there enough width of the property so that the applicant could do a single driveway cut into a neighborhood or is the property just too narrow? I'm trying to understand what the need for potentially 11 at the most 11 driveway cuts for the 11 homes. >> So, I I actually don't know that there would be room for 11 driveway cuts. We don't have a lot layout at this time in the resoning process that will be provided at at development plan. Um I I in my mind I can see this laying out as a culdesac street personally but I don't have that knowledge. So, I think that would be very helpful if the um developer could come back, especially before the planning and zoning board, if they could give the planning and zoning board an idea of what that road, what that collector would look like. How many cuts are we talking about? Are we talking about a single, like you said, culde-sac street for those 11 homes? I think it's really difficult to envision what that would look like. Anything else? Next step in this process is it will go to the planning and zoning board for their review and recommendation and return to council in a few months. Our next public hearing is going to be a long one. So before we get started, I want to take a very short bio break. Jenny, >> did he say body break? >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Number [music] one. >> [music] >> Heat. Hey, Heat. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Heat up. We'll reconvene our council meeting at this time. Our next public hearing is a is for a resolution authority Raleigh Housing Authority to acquire and preserve mixed income housing in Kerry. Director of Planning and Community Development Heather Willahan will present the item and council may take action. Miss Willahan. >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. Tonight is a public hearing to consider adoption of a resolution authorizing the Raleigh Housing Authorities to [snorts] operate in Kerry for the purposes of acquiring and preserving the affordability of 340 existing mixed income multif family dwellings within the Amberwood and Lochmir community. [snorts] The Raleigh Housing Authority has asked that we bring this request to you during their contract due diligence period. So we are here tonight to present that request. After the public hearing, council may take action on this item. >> [snorts] >> First, I'm going to talk a little bit about procedure since this is unusual for us. And then we'll specifically cover the request before you tonight. The Raleigh Housing Authority is a government entity created under North Carolina General Statutes Chapter 157 known as the Housing Authority Law. The law authorizes housing authorities to serve low and moderate income residents within adjacent municipalities, but only if a community adopts a resolution authorizing them to do so. Adopting a resolution authorizing a housing authority to operate is a technical requirement and does not make council or carry a party to the acquisition or any related financing of the property. Additionally, properties must be in compliance with all zoning and town ordinances. Turning to Amberwood at Lockmir, this existing apartment complex was originally developed in two phases. First, the first phase in 1991 and the second in 1996. It offers one, two, and three-bedroom garden style apartments with a total of 340 units. It's located at the intersection of Southeast Kerry Parkway and Piny Plains Road, about one mile southwest of the destination center at Crossroads and one mile east of the destination center at Kilder Farm Road and Trion Road. Amberwood is a part of the locker community and is 96% occupied. So home to about 314 Kerry households. Amberwood is considered naturally occurring affordable housing or Noah, meaning that it is an unsubsidized unrestricted property offering below market rents. It currently rents at rates affordable to households earning approximately 52% of the Raleigh Kerry median in area median income or AMI which is about $57,000 with an average rent of 1510. This type of below market unrestricted residential property often serves as a community's largest supply of affordable housing. And properties like this represent important affordable housing in Kerry. In markets like ours where comparable comparable rents are higher, a property is considered to have rent headroom. Amberwood is being marketed with the value proposition that it has $2 to $300 in rent headroom. It's impossible to predict every potential scenario, but two outcomes that properties like this often faced in a pro often face in a profit motivated market are first, a private investor inquire acquires the property, invests in renovations, and increases rents, potentially pricing out existing residents and permanently removing affordable housing units from the community's supply. or two, the property declines through deferred maintenance as an owner realizes gains without reinvesting resulting in substandard conditions and property value decline. Alternatively, if an entity committed to affordability, such as a nonprofit, a government agency, or a subsidized private owner, recapitalizes the property, rents remain affordable to low and moderate income households while the property is maintained to continue offering a high quality of life and stability to residents. This is important because the residents of Amberwoods are critical members of our community. The Raleigh Housing Authority has proposed the following. That all 340 units will remain affordable for low and moderate income households or 80% of AMI with at least 51% of the units as affordable for lowincome housing, low-income households or 60% of AMI with a maximum of 10% of the units potentially supported by project-based voucher subsidy. They're also committed to minimizing rent increases over time to avoid displacing existing Kerry residents as well as addressing deferred maintenance and investing in renovation of renovations of units as they naturally turn over. The assessed value of Amberwood at Lockmir is 64,485,515 with a 2027 Kerry municipal property tax of $236,984. While there are currently property tax exemption avenues that any owner could pursue, this resolution would allow RHA tax exemption through the housing authority statute. This is an important distinction because RHA's operating status is clearly defined under state law. Whereas recently publicized charitable housing loophole could be available to any property owner regardless of affordability commitments. >> You have heard us say that partnerships are at the heart of K's community plan and housing strategy. This proposal leverages a regional public partnership and furthers several imaginary community plan live policies and carry plan housing goals, including maintaining neighborhood character, encouraging the provision of affordable dwellings, pursuing regional and nonprofit partnerships to meet housing needs, and ensuring that all Kerry residents can enjoy the full benefit of K's high quality of life. Please, please. >> This concludes my presentation. A representative from the Rousey Raleigh Housing Authority is here to address this request and following the public hearing, I'm available to answer any questions you may have. >> Thank you, Miss Wheeling. >> Good evening, uh, mayor and members of the town council and, uh, citizens of Kerry. My name is Ashley Lmer Johnson. I am the uh CEO of the Raleigh Housing Authority. Want to just talk a little bit about the housing authority uh and about what our intentions are. I think uh Heather uh gave a really good presentation and explanation for what we are trying to do. Um, as uh the uh staff person uh said, the H Raleigh Housing Authority is required by state law to request authorization uh for this acquisition, and that's why we are here. >> The Raleigh Housing Authority has served Wake County residents for decades. We all of our programs, the section 8 program, public housing program, and other housing programs, a non-subsidized programs have [snorts] have a preference for residents of all of Wake County. So, we have served and we currently serve uh households throughout the county from with uh from without the county and also within uh the city limits of Kerry. We have over 400 Kerry residents on our waiting lists and we serve 211 households uh in Kerry through the section 8 voucher program. The housing authority has a strategic plan adopted in 2024 to that includes developing redeveloping uh our properties into mixed income housing units but also to uh acquire through acquisition acquire property so that we can preserve the affordable naturally occurring affordable housing. The folks who live in these properties are people who work, who are teachers, uh, child care workers and other essential workers who work in Kerry. And we want to make sure that those people who are living there now will continue to be able to live there through the housing authorities's efforts. The Raleigh Housing Authority is not completely unique, but of over 3,000 housing authorities in the United States, we are one of less than 1% of the housing authorities in the nation that has a standard and poor credit rating of A+. Not AAA like the city of Kerry or Raleigh. But this allows us to do things that we haven't been able to do in the past and that many cities can't do. We are able to invest in naturally occurring affordable housing to save those properties and uh preserve them for use by folks who now live in them. And that is [snorts] what we intend to do. And we are here to keep [snorts] uh Amber Woods in the way it is now in the in the people that it serves. Nothing will change. >> Please, please. Or almost nothing. The rents will stay the same. The lease will stay the same. The management company will stay the same. The feel of living there will stay the same. >> Please allow us to hear the speaker. Thank you. >> What may change is the fact that we will have and will be able to have the resources to address the deferred maintenance and improve the property above the conditions that there are there now. >> [applause] >> So I will end my remarks there and if there are questions u I will uh entertain them or my colleague um our director of acquisitions and strategic partnerships Jason Marorrow uh will assist with some of the >> and our process is to hold a public hearing if we have questions for you after the public hearing. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So now is the time for the public hearing. I'll call on the clerk to share the number of written comments. call on any registered speakers. [snorts] >> Um yes. Um we are going to first start with the um speaker that's on the line, Cassie Holt. Cassie, if you can >> Are you not going to do written comments? >> Yes. They didn't give me the total, so I need to go real quick. Sorry. >> So, we'll let Cassie go first. Um who's on the line and um then we'll do the written comments and the inerson speakers first. >> Okay. Very good. >> Cassie, will you confirm that you can hear us and give your name? Yes. Um, good evening. My name is Kathy Holtz. Um, I'm a resident of Lochmir. Um, I've had the privilege of growing up in Kerry, having attended Davis Drive Elementary, Westlake Middle School, and Middle Creek High School. Um, I moved away from Kerry for college and law school, but after living in Raleigh, decided to purchase my first uh, single family home in Lochmir earlier this year. I have worked extremely hard and am extremely proud of this achievement. However, the proposed resolution regarding Raleigh Housing Authorities's purchase of Amberwood at Lockmeir is concerning to me on many levels. First, the proposed RHA resolution locks Kerry residents into a 30-year commitment that helps the city of Raleigh to the detriment of the town of Kerry. All current RHA developments are within Raleigh. Um, which makes sense because RHA's board of commissioners are appointed by the Raleigh mayor. A quick review of RHA's website shows that the organization's goal is to help residents of the city of Raleigh. Unlike Raleigh residents who can hold the mayor of Raleigh accountable for her appointments to the RHA board, the town of Kerry and residents of Kerry have no such appointment power to ensure that the town's interests are represented in RHA's decisions. Having recently moved to Kerry from uh a property that was adjacent to a RHA development. I I can confirm that this decision will affect property values and resellabilities of homes in this area. Recently trying to sell a a town home, I had several out ofstate buyers interested in purchasing the property until they found out that there was a RHA development across the street. Lastly, I want to conclude with urging this council to take a moment to seriously consider the circumstances surrounding this resolution. A lot of things have happened recently, the state auditor's office, um the findings from WLEB Dickinson regarding serious operational failures and lack of transparency. It was very concerning to me that I could not find information regarding this RHA resolution on the town of Kerry website. It is unclear whether there have been studies or whether anything has been done to consider the property values of residents living in this highly residential area. And with undermined confidence in the completeness and of and reliability of the information provided by this council, I urge the council to at a minimum pause, take a moment and delay the vote to ensure that such a major decision is not rushed. The timing, the optics, [applause] the timing, the optics, the lack of information could not be more suspect. And I urge the council to ver vote no or at a minimum delay this vote so that further due diligence can be made. Thank you. [applause] >> We had we had 144 written comments. um they were provided to the council beforehand through email at your desk tonight and also online and then we'll go to our inerson speakers and start with the people who signed up for public speaks out first. So I wanted to start with Nancy K followed by Linda Shaw. >> So once again I am not a professional public speaker. I am nervous. So, if you can bear with me, I'd appreciate it. So, good evening. My name is Nancy Joiner K and I live at 105 Ashwin Court. I want you to know that I love the town of Kerry and I am excited about the mixed income housing that includes market rate housing that is currently under consideration. under the Imagine Carry plan. I'm excited that a lot of these projects are public and privately financed. You couldn't ha ask for a better mix. You have low income housing. You have market rate housing on the same site. You have a community coming together, private and public, to finance it. This is the ideal model for housing options. But tonight, I would like to address the tax exemption requested by Raleigh by the Raleigh Housing Authority. Staff stated that private ownership brings either higher rents or deferred maintenance and that the Raleigh Housing Authority ownership prevents both. Specifically for Amberwood, the deferred maintenance claim is simply not true. Okay? And you need to listen. Amberwood sits inside a Lockmir homeowners association subject to the same architectural and landscaping covenants as every lockmere home. for a private owner. Private those covenants have teeth. Unresolved violations bring fines and fines become leans. Deferred maintenance is not an option, which is why this apartment complex looks so awesome despite the fact that it is 35 years old. Since 1991, through every owner, Amberwood has met Lochmir's standards because the covenants run with the deed. You need to understand what that means. It runs with the deed and it binds any private owner. They would not bind the Raleigh Housing Authority. Now, consider the Raleigh Housing Authority. created by Raleigh in 1938. It is controlled by Raleigh. All nine commissioners appointed by the Raleigh mayor. The Raleigh mayor, not the Raleigh city council. They're appointed specifically by the Raleigh Mayor. like Carrie, it is a municipal corporation with immunity. Let that sink in. I shall repeat it. It is a municipal corporation like Kerry with immunity. North Carolina says plainly that no judgment against it can become a lean on its property. This tax exemption is the first step toward the Raleigh Housing Authority operating as a housing authority inside Kerry. [applause] If you approved this tax exemption, you would essentially be creating a town within a town, one that covenants and carry ordinances, they cannot touch them. And you need to be mindful of that. By staff's own admission, margins, your staff would be thin once this converts to low and moderate income housing. With capped rents, when costs rise, maintenance is the only place that gives. That's the only place they can cut. An owner immune to Lochmir's covenants and the town of Kerry ordinances could remove the landscaping and features that are costliest to maintain a change the appearance of the buildings change the level of maintenance of the buildings >> with little consequence. Please let me finish >> one more sentence I have to >> even >> I'm speaking slow I'm speaking slowly so you understand >> even the mayor has publicly voiced concerns about long-term maintenance under the RHA staff and the mayor agree sir that Amberwood is naturally occurring affordable housing 35 years old and in excellent condition with updated interiors to pools clubous dog parks etc. But under RH control, 49% of the units would eventually go to Raleigh residents and current residents above the income level level currently living there would not be able to renew their lease. Carry residents would be displaced from one of our few affordable communities. >> In the end, this tax exemption is unnecessary. The housing is already affordable and the covenants already keep it well-maintained, granting it cheats carry out of $6.5 million over 30 years and the county out of $8.5 million also over 38. Well, just a minute. >> Puts a town You're [cheering] >> just just a minute. I I've never been here. I've never been here. It puts a town inside our town. It displaces Kerry residents in favor of Raleigh residents. >> I am asking you to show up, >> ladies and gentlemen. >> I am asking you to show up for the Kerry residents and let the RHA address its housing needs, not in the town of Kerry. You owe your allegiance. You owe your allegiance to the taxpayers and residents of the town of Kerry. >> Miss Kay, >> if you I have one more sentence. >> I've let you go over for two minutes. >> If you cannot bring yourself to vote this down today, >> ladies and gentlemen, please >> I ask that you take that you table the vote for further study. We have had very little notice 13 days. >> Please, please listen. Thank you. Thank you. [applause and cheering] >> Our next speaker is Linda Shaw. [applause] >> Miss Shaw. >> Our next >> Miss Shaw, you're next. >> Followed by Elena Morgan. >> I would ask please stick to the five minute timer. We have a long night ahead of us. Please. They're going to start going at it in a minute. >> Please. >> Good evening. Um, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Weinrect, and Kerry Town Council. Thank you for letting me speak. Um, my name is Lynn Shaw and I live in Kerry. Been a resident since 95. Been a resident of Washington since 2001. I am speaking on my own behalf. Okay. This is my own personal opinion. Okay. Um, and I do have a couple ideas. I am asking the town of Kerry town council to vote no on the resolution to allow Raleigh housing authority to operate in Kerry and acquire Amberwood Apartments at Lockmeir. Amberwood Apartments is already renting as naturally occurring affordable housing known as Noah. Uh Noah is a subset of unsubsidized not subsidized housing that remains cheaper because of specific trades. Amberwood at Lochmir is within the locker association and it does have to abide by the locker architectural standards and specifications just like me resident. Um I am asking the town of Kerry town council and planning department to not allow a potential loss of the carry tax revenue to Raleigh housing authority. Instead, please reallocate the hundreds of thousands and potentially millions of carry tax revenue dollars to developing a veterans village on the site of the Epic Games property, formerly known as the Kerry Town Center property that is sitting still undeveloped. Um, an article published in the American Legion on June 23rd, 2026 reports that there are over 32,000 homeless veterans. The Charlotte Today published on July 16, 2026. Uh, Tunnel to Towers, excuse me, I got a cold. Foundation. Um, the Tunnel Towers Foundation has begun construction on a new veterans village that will provide not only stable housing, but also comprehensive support services to design to help service members rebuild their lives. The town of Kerry could seek a partnership with Epic Games and Tunnel to Towers and the HUD VASH. That's BSH to build a veterans village. Part of the partnership deal could allow for a part of the parcel to be developed for Epic Games corporate office space. I don't know, maybe you call it Epic 10 Veterans Village, you know. Um, and what's a Veterans Villages? The foundation builds transitional and permanent housing communities across the United States, uh, featuring on-site supportive medical and mental health services. The Tunnel Towers Foundation operates a dedicated HUD bash services team that collaborates with the United States Department of Veterans Affair, Department of HUD, and the local public housing authorities to help homeless veterans secure permanent housing. Um, this project could align with the town of Kerry 2040 imagine plan. Um, so once again, I am asking the town of Kerry Town Council to vote no on the resolution to allow the Raleigh Housing Authority to operate in Kerry. And thank you so much for listening. [applause] Our next speaker is Elena Morgan by followed by Thomas Keller. >> Good evening. My name is Dr. Elena Morgan and I live across from the Amberwood apartment buildings in Lochmir. I am here tonight to strongly oppose the sale of the property to the Raleigh Housing Authority. Before I get into the specifics of what I want to say, I'd like to take a moment and say the optics of this situation are catastrophic for all of you individually. If I were to bill my patients and Medicare, who is who who I bill for my services? 24 million dollar in excess of the services I had provided to my patients. I would lose my license and I would go to jail. I would be on the front cover of every newspaper in this country as a villainous physician. The fraud that has been propagated by the members of this council seems to wash over you. Your faces are impassive. You've committed crimes. Crimes. Significant financial malfeasants. Let that sink in. You are now turning to face Kerry residents, many of whom are telling you that giving away $200,000 a year in tax revenue. Let's remember what tax revenue is. Taxpayer dollars. What does that mean? money people have earned in their jobs and been forced by you to give to the government in good faith that you have taken and you're asking if you can give it away to a municipality that is not answerable to us. [applause] Each one of you will gladly have to stand for re-election sooner or later. I genuinely support women in government. I'm glad to see a panel full of women who are in leadership. I'm appalled at what you've done with it. >> [applause] >> You are elected, Bella. You are in my district to represent the welfare of the people who live in that area. Amberwood apartment buildings is fine. Leave it alone. [applause] I will end with this one extraordinarily important point. When I reviewed the crime statistics for every Raleigh Housing Authority building within its jurisdiction, the violent crime recorded by police in Raleigh in the immediate quarter mile around those apartments exceeded national averages by staggering numbers. Shall I tell you what they were? >> Drive by shootings. Rape, intentional homicide, sexual assault of a child at gunpoint in the daytime near the street, not by a family member. Do you know what that means? street crime the likes of which Carrie cannot comprehend. I moved here from Atlanta and I can tell you even in the areas where taxpayers feel buffered from crime, it will arrive on your doorstep >> and I will tell you the ballot box will arrive on yours. Vote no. Our [applause] [applause] next speaker, our next speaker is Thomas, followed by Candace Damatis. >> Yes. >> Uh, my name is Tom Keller. I am a resident of Lockmeir. I've been in Kerry since 1992. Uh although I do not have a southern accent. Uh you could tell I'm from the Boston area. Um I did I was born in Buford, South Carolina. So that qualifies me to be here. So with that said, I mentioned that I I'm from the Boston area. And my personal life story is I grew up under the Cambridge Housing Authority in Boston. uh similar projects. We call them projects, similar arrangements to this proposed arrangement. Uh similar situations, similar wanting to do good for the community and then rampid mismanagement. That mismanagement uh caused a lot of grief on my family. Uh, I have scars to approve that it was mismanaged. I have a stab wound and that is something that I I don't want anywhere in our care community, especially managed by a housing authority and a housing authority that is not within the carry limits and not controlled by Kerry. Now I know other folks have gone over the this the money the 219 by 30 years 6.5 million adjusted for inflation up to 11 million and if you take the other numbers and say well actually the inflation adjustment of 2% it should be 5% it just goes up into astronomical numbers but I uh I came to Kerry 92. Like I said, I worked my way through Kerry in different neighborhoods and my whole goal was to to live at Lock Mirror, to live in that environment. I think I deserve that right. I think I deserve to preserve that right. Amberwood itself is a giveback where we provide not subsidized housing for honest people to make a living to grow and carry. We provide that already. There's no reason to to remove this. Uh you know I I wanted to say things like well I'm a disabled veteran which I am. I have struggled. I've seen what these housing authorities who present, you know, delusions of grandeur and what they actually deliver. I've seen the rats in the sewers. I've seen trash piled up as high as the second story within the project I lived in. I've seen the riot police come in every Friday and Saturday night and throw tear gas to where we have to close our windows and we can't go outside. These are all places that are managed by the housing authority who I don't even think is in here in the room anymore to hear these comments. So I may be misspeaking on that, but you know that's my observation and that's what I'm going to stand on. I do know through uh articles within the uh different papers and news feeds and all that that the uh Raleigh Housing Authority and the current owners have bragged to say, "Well, we don't really need your approval. We can go ahead with this without your approval." So then don't give it to them. Don't give them the tax break, which is what they probably need and they desire. Let them do what they want to do. If that that's if that's what they can do, then do it. I guarantee you they won't go ahead if you don't approve this and give them the tax break. After all my years of service uh through the military, I think I deserve and I think my community deserves and I think Carrie deserves your consideration in this issue. Just don't give him the authority. Uh that's all I can say except for this is financially bad for carry. It's very stressful for the current Amberwoods residents who eventually would be kicked out and I know summing up now and uh the surrounding thousands of Kerry residents who support your the what we have here in Kerry. I I think we know that the word transparency came by tonight and I think this is your moment. You wanna you want to make things right, be transparent about this and not vote for it. Thank [clears throat] you. [applause] >> Our next speaker is Candace Deidis um followed by Stormmy Forte. And who's after? >> Um, so Candace, then Stormmy and Paula Chino. >> So is Candace here? >> Okay. Who's the next speaker? >> Stormmy Forte followed by Paula. >> Is Stormmy here? Next speaker, >> Paula. >> Good evening. I am a resident of Kerry. My name is Paula Mancino. I live on Franklin Heights Road and Amberwood is adjacent to my neighborhood. I live off of Piny Plains. Miss Donna over here is a resident. Um, how many years? 40 years. Her husband came to the same town and insisted that they paved the road before they built Amberwood. It was dirt. She worked for the state. Her husband worked for the state. Her son worked for the state. He had to beg and plead for them to keep the trees up for the buffers where deers can live in the woods. I make $15.50 an hour. I teach preschool. My husband works hard. I have a son on the spectrum. I don't need to worry about what's going to happen behind those woods. To the people that live there now to Miss Donna shouldn't have to put up a fence. She she's a widow. Her son has uh some needs. She shouldn't have to worry. her husband helped make that area as beautiful as it is cuz he had to come here and tell you people how to go by the laws that the developers have to put up a stop sign and a sidewalk and they have to pave the road. This is not rocket science. It's called legal zoning protocols. Okay. Uh, the presentation neglected to mention the Wake County taxes that Raleigh would be exempt from, which I think is a lot more than $20 and something thousand per year. >> Okay. I'm sure one of you knows the number. Okay. 725,000 times 30 years. I'm not a statistician, but I know that's a lot of money. Okay. I love Carrie. >> Million. >> How much? $21 million. >> $21 million. Why don't you all pay that? Okay. You write us a check. Okay. [cheering] Get out your checkbook. Okay. God bless me. Let me be nice. Okay. I love Carrie. I love their towns people. They're hardworking. They're kind. And they're honest people. They're from all over the world, by the way. Okay. I'm here to speak my peace. There's neighbors in my area that are disabled, that are veterans, that have adult children on the spectrum, and they shouldn't have to be afraid to walk down the street because we're going to put in subsidized housing in our backyard. My husband works long hours. I should not be afraid who's walking down my street. My son should not have to be afraid because he's on the autism spectrum. Somebody might run him down. We've got one lady in the neighborhood. We're going to catch her. Okay. I want our tax dollars to stay in Carrie so we can hire more police officers so people can call 911 and not be put on hold for God's sake. How many people have called 911 in the town of Kerry and can't get somebody to answer? Where is the money for that? Okay. I do not want you to vote yes on this. The tax money deserves to stay in the town of Kerry. There are people living in our community now. It used to be Swift Creek and then it became Town of Kerry and everyone thought that would be wonderful. De Duke's raising our rates. Y'all approve that. Okay. The water's going up. There we go. Uh you said we were going to have our taxes up 3.5. Well, we talked you down to 2.5. Thank you. But no thank you. Last time I checked, I didn't get a 2.5% increase in my um wages >> in in my neighbor's uh social security and those veterans benefits. Did you get a 2.5 raise? >> I did. >> You did? Good for you. I'm sure you'll put some to charity. [snorts] Okay. The wealthy people living in Kerry and all of us other folks living in Kerry do not want folks that need affordable housing to go without. That needs to be clear here. No one is here putting people down that live in a place that has affordable housing. Okay? I am speaking from experience. I lived near the projects in St. Paul, Minnesota. And I know what section 8 subsidized housing looks like. And it's scary. And it's not everybody that lives there, but only takes about 10% to take the whole place down. And you are going to lose money if you approve it because guess what? People are going to be leaving in droves. Is that what you want for the town of Kerry >> and Cena? >> Okay, >> time is expired. So I want you to realize that if you allow that to happen, you will see higher crime rates. You will see drugrelated crimes. No one wants to talk about the drugs, but that comes with it. >> Time is expired. Thank you. >> Last time. And let's remember that child abuse and neglect. I'm prayerful that the town of Kerry, God bless you. It's true. Will make the right decision and not sell Amberwood because we have serious concerns. Some people like my f myself, our home property values are all the only investment I have. I'm going to be 55 years old. I would like to stay in my house until I'm no longer alive. I'd like my son to inherit that house. Thank you. >> I would like my son to be able to keep the property value so he can have something to live off of and not be paying for subsidized housing. Thank you. God bless you. [applause] Our next our next speaker is Tim Brock, followed by Thomas Hosy. >> Good evening. Uh, my name is Tim Brock. I am also a resident of Lochmir and a resident of Kerry. I came tonight to voice my support for affordable housing and the resolution before you right now. I think it's really important as a community benefit that we have affordable housing. And I think Carrie recognizes that as it's in a lot of our plans and our visioning. I also think that, you know, it's important to keep these wonderful people in place that are already here at Amberwood. Many of might be here tonight. I think they're critical members and valuable members of our community and I think we need to support them staying here so they can work and engage and live in Kerry and don't have to make long commutes to stay part of our community. I also think in terms of when you think about affordable housing, it's also people who are already living here who maybe have parents that can't afford to come and live in Carrie and they need a place to stay nearby and they can sort of engage in in affordable housing. I know that's been something that over the years has been an issue with my family. And so I think it's really important that we have uh affordable housing in Kerry. In terms of the cost proposition, I think it's this is a very good cost proposition for affordable housing. When you think about what it would take to buy land, construct and develop affordable housing, and the maintenance cost, that is way more expensive than uh foregoing $200,000 in taxes a year. I think this is really important and really worth worth doing because it is a fraction of the cost to to get affordable housing that we want and need and carry. [applause] In terms of community character, in terms of community character, Amberwood is already there and they've been wonderful neighbors and those residents will stay in place and I think that it'll continue to create a great it'll continue to it'll continue to great be great neighbors and a great place to be. And so I think in terms of this, my biggest concern is that if the deal were to fall through and RHA doesn't get this property and a predatory development company comes and looks this as an extractive opportunity to disinvest and degrade the property and if we see a dilapidated property then that really will impact community character. So I have concerns about that. So to reaffirm uh I am a locker resident and I am very much in support of affordable housing in this proposition and I want to thank you for your time this evening. [applause] >> Our our next speaker is Thomas Hosy followed by Reynolds Nippy. >> I'm sorry. Could you repeat the name? >> Thomas Hosy I believe. Yes. >> Followed by Reynolds. Okay. Okay. Mayor and council people, I am Thomas, get my notes. I'm to Thomas J. Hosey. I live in Kerry, homeowner there in the Winston Ridge development. I too have concerns with the RH proposal for the public housing at Amberwood. This would eliminate approximately 236,000 to the city, over 500,000 to the county property tax annually. All while property tax in Kerry was just increased by the council 8%. another three and a half% by the county. However, the needs for Amberwood services would continue but unfunded. Property values in the fabric of the community are of great concern. Uh neither RHA or Wake Housing Authority own or operate apartments in Kerry. They primarily use vouchers for single units. The owner pays the property tax and hundreds of units are not concentrated in one location. Large-scale public housing in Kerry would be a first, an experiment if you will, without precedent. In fact, there is only one publiclyowned complex of comparable size and concentration in the entire state of North Carolina, and that is McDougall Terrace in Durham. Uh, this large complex and adjacent area experienced dramatically high crimes um as well as many associated challenges, violent crimes. Comprehensive studies that are not limited to just low-income areas and actually distinguish between affluent areas and lowincome indicate when public housing incurs in affluent areas such as Kerry, property values do fall, they go down as opposed to when built in lower income areas where values can remain stable or actually increase. A few examples of comprehensive studies that make this finding include a 2016 a 2019 Stanford University study, a 2016 Harvard University study with work noted on economists Rebecca Diamond and Tim McUade, as well as a 2016 urban studies that specifically focused on the Charlotte area, just to name a few. Additionally, the city council has no future input into this experiment. RHA can make any changes they choose at any time without regard to how this impacts the surrounding areas or the required city service levels. According to RAL, W on July 16th, Wake County and various Raleigh agencies are seeking to house 400 homeless people uh each year. They have a budget of 22 million, which is great. So they will be housed. Would RHA unilaterally decide to house them at Amberwood? It is definitely more than possible. Again, Kerry Council would not be a decision maker on this. This is not a Kerry Merryold development model, which is great. It's a very different approach. Amberwood does appide naturally occurring affordable housing. Many as many have already stated changing this to public subsidized housing will not add add any affordable units. This is already occurring has been stated 50 52% low mod AMI and 96% occupied. However, if approved, it would remove needed property tax, negatively impact adjacent property values supported by comprehensive studies that conclude this in affluent areas. remove council as a decision maker. Council's responsibility, as you know, is to promote stable home values, public safety, fiscal responsibility, and ensure the continuity of the fabric of the community for existing residents. This is why we elected you and purchased homes in Kerry rather than less expensive homes in other communities. Removing 340 units from the tax ro while taxes increased on existing homeowners jeopardizing existing property values and eliminating oversight simply does not fulfill the risk responsibility owed to existing carry residents. The intentions are great but the downside at this location at this concentrated size at this fiscal juncture are just not in the best interest of current Kerry residents. I would urge you to please vote no on this. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. [applause] >> Our next speaker, our next speaker is Reynolds. >> Okay. Followed by Eric >> Northine. Oh, by the way, >> good evening, Mr. Mayor and council members. That gentleman was right. A lot of you folks are somewhat on the record of being in favor of affordable housing and an authority. Don't vote your dream. Vote your reality if you please. The reality, this gentleman just gave you the reality and it's not as good as a dream. Uh, Amberwood is a success and someone before me said it. Leave it alone. It Okay, now I do have about two minutes maybe or less. Uh, and it's in big print, so it'll go real quick and it's only two sides. Okay. comments on the Rousey Raleigh Housing Authority coming to Carrie with the Raleigh program. Number one, this is a backdoor entry. You folks have been talked about tonight about transparency. This is a backdoor entry. Kerry has not initiated a housing authority and has not therefore debated it publicly or sought a vote of approval of our citizens to undertake such a costly program. We may be in favor of it, but it's a this is a backdoor effort. Number two, North Carolina state auditor, pardon me for for uh talking about what's happened in the last six days. North Carolina state auditor only a week ago released a 2,600 page investigative report detailing to quote widespread financial mismanagement within the town of Kerry. End quote. Number three, again I quote's article, uh, quote, "Extravagant spending investigation reveals carries fund balance fell below policy thresholds in fiscal 2023 and fiscal 2024." End of quote. Number four, if members of the town council of Kerry vote yes on this agenda item tonight, your yes will reduce K's real estate income tax. Car's income, town's income. It was put up tonight about 230,000 plus dollars just the first year. um because the Raleigh Housing Authority, as you have heard and know, is taxexempt. Number five, I ask you each and every member of this town council, please vote no on Raleigh's request. Thank you. [applause] Our next speaker is Eric Northheim. followed by Rory Miller. Hello, my name is Eric North and I've been a Carrier resident for more than 43 years now. In fact, I've been a Lochmir resident for 39 years. So, I've seen the area quite a bit. Uh I am uh on the board of directors of the Lockmir Homeowners Association. So I'm going to give you the view of our HOA. Um I appreciate you uh letting me stand up here and address all of you um and speak on behalf of the of the Locker Homeowners Association. Uh we represent about 1,966 properties and owners um including Aberwood. We do recognize the importance of affordable housing in Kerry. It's very important. That's why we've had Amberwood working as a uh NOAH, I guess you call it, uh for 35 years. Um but however, we have received quite a bit of feedback from our residents and the overwhelming majority opposed this resolution. So, we respectfully ask the council to vote no tonight. Um, first, uh, I I would like to highlight three concerns. I'll try not to cover items that already been covered. So, I'll modify some of the words on here. Um, but the things I'd like to talk about are the benefits to carry, financial impacts, and lack of transparency. So, first, the benefits to carry, they remain very unclear to a lot of us. Um the accelerated timeline has allowed little opportunity to evaluate the long-term impacts of this significant change. Uh this this resolution would authorize the Raleigh Housing Authority to obtain jurisdiction in Kerry and that goes a long way. Uh I think even on the slides that we saw at the beginning uh we said that the Raleigh Housing Authority is going to set aside a minimum of 51% of the units as lowincome housing. What do you think's going to happen to those Amberwood residents when their lease comes due? They're not going to qualify for that. So they will be displaced, put other people in there. So, um, before approving this resolution, the council really should have clear answers about whether the Raleigh Housing Authority ownership would change occupancy policies and whether current Kerry residents would continue to be served. Second, the financial impact deserves careful consideration. We've a lot of the speakers have been up here talking about the reduction in um taxes and things like that. I'm not going to cover all those numbers again. But at the same time that you have reduced amounts, you're still the town's still going to be responsible for providing police, fire, transportation, and other municipal services. And in fact, there's a lot of research that said that may actually go up based on the use of it. Um, so where would that come from? Uh the residents deserve to know how this lost revenue would be offset and what impact it could have on our own future town services or our property taxes. So I think you you ought to consider that. Then third, the public processes lack transparency. I mean that's just very obvious. The legal notice was issued on July 10th and that we that's less than two weeks for public review. less than two weeks. I think you had over what 144 comments. Is that what I heard the number was? Uh neither the locking association nor neighboring communities received direct notification. So we did not get that. We found by found out about it by word of mouth. So I don't think I don't think that's uh very transparent. Um, a decision with long-term consequences should include meaningful public engagement and really not a rushed process. That is this. So, the resolution tonight is more than just a procedural action. And I've I've read read those words and from the staff. This really could establish a precedent for outside housing authorities to acquire acquire and operate properties in Kerry without a clear obligation to benefit Kerry residents. So, in closing, I'd say the Lockmir Homeowners Association respectfully urges the council to vote no on this resolution. [applause] And I and I would reiterate [applause] reiterate also at a minimum um if you don't vote no that you vote to defer this and gather the flax the facts so that you have clear answers regarding occupancy policies. >> Thank you. >> A thorough financial impact analysis and an open public dialogue with the taxpayers who will be affected. >> Thank you. [applause] Our next speaker is Rory Miller followed by Mary Kent. >> Hi, my name is Rory Miller and like most of the people before me, I'm a homeowner in Lockmir. Um, I want to start with I'm I'm not going to focus on the crime and all that um demographics, anything like that. That's outside my purview. I want to focus on RHA. Um, they were formed in 1938, 88 years ago. Um, to date, I don't know that they've ever owned a property outside of Raleigh city limits. Why now? Why our neighborhood? Why Carrie? [applause] >> I understand the need for affordable housing. I've lived in, I assume, much rougher places than anybody sitting up there right now. >> I've been there. I don't judge on it, but there's some concerns for sure. I'm going to go back to the whole process. Sorry, I'm going to speed up so I don't run out of time like everybody else. The f the first notice came out 10 days ago. In that notice, it said the Kerry Town Council intends to adopt a resolution authorizing the Raleigh Housing Authority to acquire and rehabilitate. The word intend is bothersome to me here. You didn't have the public hearing yet. You didn't listen to your constituents and you already made a decision. It's not okay. Now, there will be people for it and against it. That's okay. We all have our opinion and that's what makes the democracy of America. I'm here to hear everybody. It is what it is. [snorts] The word intent was bothersome to me cuz you guys seem to already have your thing. And going back to what you campaign on, yes, many campaign on affordable housing. Okay? You know, do what you campaign on. The document I saw today, Doc ID 8655 attachment resolution, um was titled the resolution of the Kerry town council authorizing the housing authority of the city of Raleigh to acquire and rehabilitate a certain multif family housing development located in Kerry. It states that the housing authority of the city of Raleigh has requested that the town authorize RHA RHA to operate and perform its lawful functions within the boundaries of the town in connection with the acquisition and rehabilitation by RHA through its nonprofit affiliate Capital Area Developments Incorporated. That's the first I heard of them. What's the relationship? Do you guys all know? I looked it up. I know there was a name change. We'll go to uh the corporate filings. We've got a ton of different entities here. RHA, Raleigh Housing Authority, 11 properties listed in Wake County Real Estate, all in the city of Raleigh. RHA Incorporated, Raleigh Housing Authority Incorporated, 15 properties listed in Wake County Real Estate, all in the city of Raleigh. Capital Area Developments Incorporated, nonprofit, 80 properties listed in Wake County, all in the city of Raleigh. And then we have one for the Raleigh Housing Authority as well. I assume it's an office. 107 total properties owned by all of these different entities, all in Raleigh. zero and carry. I think we we support the affordable housing. I think there's definitely questions of why to push this through in two weeks flat. And then every time the information comes out, it's different. And frankly, I don't know that um I I don't mean to assume here, but I'm not sure if you guys understand the corporate structure of these two different entities. So, a nonprofit, who who's buying it? is the nonprofit buying it because I'm sure that's going to change the way we govern them as far as Lockmir goes, as far as the town of Kerry goes. And like many others have said, um, basically, uh, it seems like Raleigh is going to get, uh, their first foot in the door. Like I said, 88 years, they don't have any properties outside of Raleigh, and we're going to be the first. So, good or bad, can't tell you, but it'll have every one of your names attached to it if you vote yes on the resolution today. So, >> um I do want to go to uh one one more thing. Um it kind of relates to crime, but not really. Um so, federal lawsuit settled October 16th, 2019 by RHA. Per Fair Housing Project, a project of legal uh legal aid of North Carolina, RHA settled a federal discrimination complaint filed against the RHA on behalf of a public housing tenant who was a victim of domestic violence. The settlement includes a federal consent decree believed to be the first in the country to address the landlord's obligations under the VAWA, Violence Against Women's Act. Well, they did it first. Don't know that that's a good thing. I feel bad for the woman, though. Um, the tenant was a victim of multiple crimes at her housing unit, violence perpetrated by an ex-boyfriend who strangled her, a home intruder who threatened her guests at gunpoint, and armed men plural who shot bullets into her apartment. No, I'm not focusing on the crime. no woman or nobody should have to go through that and that happened under RHA's watch and they had to settle it federally. Thank you to Legal Aid of North Carolina for that. Um if you do some some research on uh the gentleman that was here um I'm sure you'll find interesting things in Everett Housing Authority relating to how he manages. Um I guess that's it. Thank you guys. [applause] Our next speaker is Mary Kent, followed by Samantha Bertner. and town council staff Carrie folks. My name is Mary Kint. Um I'm employed at St. Paul's Episcopal Church. I'm on staff there. My uh title is community connector. I'm also a member of the strategy team of one wake. Um, you know, one wake is formed so that we can reach beyond the boundaries of our faith and try to connect um trying to connect people together to find a a way to a more just and loving world. I'm really frustrated that this is happening tonight. Timing stinks. There's an opportunity before us that has nothing to do with corruption. There's an opportunity before us. And I feel like I'm in a time warp because 30 years ago, the thing that prompted me and really spurred me to get involved in one wake was the time that I kept my mouth shut when the Episcopal Housing Ministry wanted to build affordable housing apartments in my backyard. literally in the backyard of the first home I ever owned. And I said, "Who's going to live there?" And they said, "Single moms, people who are just trying to make it." And I said, "You know what? That's the neighborhood I grew up in." Yeah, I want that in my backyard. And my neighbor said, "You are an idiot. You're going to lose everything that you ever worked for in this house. You're going to lose it all." And so I shut up and the Episcopal Housing Ministry didn't build apartments on Dynasty Drive. So here I am 30 years later and the mood is really not any different except that the town council is listening. Now you're taking it on the chin for listening and I'm kind of embarrassed by that. I'm sad about that. >> Stop. Please let her speak. >> You know, rent is expensive. Wages are not keeping pace. Debt is increasing. No area in Wake County is getting ahead of this. We have got to work together to try to change this runaway system. We have got to stop blaming people for the hardships that the system keeps piling on them. We used to say people were down on their luck. You know, if they come knocking at the church door, we maybe didn't want to say that they were having a hard time. No, they're down on their luck. As if luck is the driving factor. We have created a system that keeps pushing people into these crises. We have to stop it. Chatam states was an issue in March. I was there with my camera on the last day that they gathered. I was there to capture the emotion of what was going on. I captured the emotion of several of you town council members who were weeping over the fact that these people were being wiped away. People said, "If only we had enough money that we could buy the land out from under them, that we could keep them here. If only we could invest in them. We cared about them. We didn't have the money. We didn't have a superhero." >> Please let her speak. >> So now when we're presented with a solution that will prevent profitability from taking over this land, what do we do? Oh, we don't want that here. We don't trust them. We don't trust this. We don't trust anybody. Profitability is the thing. We can't afford to let these people live here. We keep calling them these people as if that's not us. Where are our priorities? Good ideas don't stop at the boundaries of our town. There's good ideas in Raleigh. There's good ideas in Zebulun. There's good ideas in a lot of places. We stand at a crossroads where we can bring collaboration in in a place that we have never done this before. Innovation is what gets us beyond the same old same old. Innovation >> let her speak, please. >> Where do you live? >> Innovation will carry us way beyond the 30-year problem of not in my backyard. I urge you to let this collaboration be the beginning of a new way forward for all of Wake County. >> Are we only a profit motivated society >> or can we think about the people that are in our community? >> Thank you. Your time is expired. >> Thank you. [applause] [cheering] [applause] >> [applause] >> Good evening. My name is Samantha Bertner. My husband Jared and I became firsttime homeowners four years ago when we bought our home in Lochmir and we live directly across the street from the Amberwood apartment community. We can see the entrance from our windows. We're here tonight with our four children and many, many of our Lochmir neighbors to voice our objection to the Raleigh Housing Authority acquiring this property. The town of Kerry should not authorize or enable this for all of the reasons that you've heard tonight and because the Raleigh Housing Authority is not operating on behalf of Kerry and will not be a good neighbor. The Raleigh Housing Authority has an extensive application. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. The Raleigh Housing Authority has an extensive application process and long wait lists which range from months to several years. According to their website, the application for this public housing um and the application, I'm sorry, is for this public housing. And when public housing units become available, the next person on the wait list is notified. This is not carrypecific. Raleigh public housing in Kerry will move people looking for affordable housing in Raleigh out of the city, which might be in Raleigh's best interest, but is not serving the housing needs of the people of Kerry or the town of K's stated housing goals. This idea that the idea that this housing would be for K's teachers and firefighters who we love is just a comfortable fantasy. In reality, the RHA cannot guarantee that people living in Amberwood are working in Kerry. And in fact, it's most likely that residents would be from Raleigh, effectively taking housing from Kerry residents. This is not preserving affordable housing for Kerry residents as Mrs. Miss Wayahan hopes. It will only create more public housing for Raleigh's public housing program. The reason the RHA will be a bad neighbor is twofold. First, it takes a robust property management team to maintain a clean, safe, and comfortable community. I have experience with this as I was a property manager for many years, and some of the communities I worked for had lowincome designated units. RHA apartment communities have received many negative reviews from residents complaining about trash, dirty and stinky buildings, broken AC for weeks during our recent heatwave, and complaints about management and unresponsive staff. One resident review even said, "Don't move here unless you have nowhere else to go." I drove by RHA's Kentwood community, and the first apartment I saw had a broken couch sitting on the front porch and trash all around the front door. This is not in keeping with the community standards of Lochmir and we should not invite Raleigh's dysfunctional property management choices into our neighborhood and into our communities. Second [applause] second, the RHA is not accountable to the people of Kerry as many people have pointed out or even to its own residents that are living at their communities. This kind of bureaucratic entity has no incentive to keep residents happy since there's a steady supply of applicants waiting to take their place and uh or its neighbor carry neighbors since it has no ties of any kind to our community. Voting yes on this resolution would not only go against the will of the community affected by this measure whom you represent and have heard from tonight overwhelmingly, but also against the best interests of Kerry since it will not keep Kerry housing available for Kerry residents and will introduce an unaccountable government entity into our community. We urge and expect a no vote on this resolution and even more that you'll take action to prevent this acquisition in the future. Thank you. [applause] Our last registered our last registered speaker is Michael Jones. >> Mr. Jones. Guess I'm the speaker you've been waiting for. Thank nice to be here. All of my fellow Kerry citizens. Most citizens of Kerry are here by choice. We could have chosen Raleigh with its highrises and urban amenities, but we chose Raleigh. I've chose Kerry. Kerry with roughly 17th the violent crime, allowing citizens of all ages to enjoy time in public spaces. Carrie with less than 1/ half the property crime. This proposal gives the mayor of Kerry, her nineapp appointed Ros Raleigh housing authority commissioners, their CEO, and 134 fellow employees operational authority over the 340 units of Amberwood Apartments. You, our Kerry-elected citizens, can say no. That's the only voice you will have. A yes vote by you will mean all citizens of Kerry will relinquish our operation of this large the operation of this large successful carry apartment complex to a governor organization that answers to their citizens not ours. Unlike private privately owned apartments, these will not be subject subject to the open market forces of renters with choices. Subsidized renters will not have alternative accommodations they can afford. It's a property. It's a poverty trap for the residents who become dependent and must accept what a a full market paying renter would not. Who here believes Raleigh will prioritize Kerry apartments, sending them the best residents, putting their first putting first their operational and maintenance funds over other over their own Raleigh units. This acquisition of a significant Kerry property by a government that does not serve us is wrong for the town of Kerry, bad for the people of Kerry, but quite the outlet for Raleigh. The citizens of Kerry voted for you. Who will you vote for? [applause] >> No, I just don't. >> That's it for those who have signed up to speak. If you are in the audience and would like to speak, this is your opportunity. Good evening, council. Um, my name is Evan McGinn and I serve at the Kirk of Kildair Presbyterian Church and I'm a Kerry resident. Now, in a previous role, I also served on the advisory council of the largest effort to preserve Noah housing in North Carolina. I'll say that much of the discussion tonight has focused on whether or not 300 units of affordable housing should come to Kerry when I want to note that there are already 340 units of affordable housing in Kerry. [applause] And so the question the question is not should these 340 units become affordable housing. The question is do we want to lose it? Now I'll say that comes with a cost. that decision to preserve Noah housing which is [snorts] the largest source of affordable housing in Kerry. It's 80% of all affordable housing in Wake County if we want to keep that because it's vulnerable. It is the most at risk source of affordable housing in our community. If we want to keep that vulnerable and large stock of affordable housing in this community, it comes with a cost that's been talked about a lot uh uh this uh this evening. Um that 200,000 number, the 15 million over 30 years. What has not been talked about is the cost of building 340 units of affordable housing, which by my count with the North current North Carolina Builders Association, $250,000 per unit cost comes to about $85 million. So, I know there's been a lot of discussion about financial responsibility and management this evening, but I would compare $85 million and 15 million, and I would take our this bet as a much more responsible choice. I would also just want to say that I think if you live in Amberwood, if it's managed by uh the Raleigh Housing Authority, you're still a Kerry resident. And I'll leave that there. Thank you. [applause] Good evening, council. My name is Reverend Wesley Spears Newsome and I've lived in Kerry for about a decade now coming up on our 10th anniversary and I'm proud to live in this town. I'm a pastor at Greenwood Forest Baptist Church just down the road at the intersection of Maynard and Kildair Farm. And when I first started working in ministry in Kerry, one of the things that would happen a lot is folks would come in with small needs. They would come in needing a grocery card, needing a gas card, needing a bus ticket just to get to Raleigh because back then we had higher faires. So, thank you for that. Um but eventually they started coming with more and they started coming with needs that we couldn't meet. They started coming with needs like rent that was too high, utility bills that were too high and we didn't have the resources to help with that. And that is what led to our congregation's housing work. Uh many of the folks in Kerry know us as people who have worked on housing and are working on housing. We were one of the founding congregations of one wake because of this interest in housing because we saw it affecting the people who walked in our door and the people who sat in our pews. We have decided to take half of our property and make it available to become affordable housing because we believe in putting money where our mouth is. [applause] So, One Wake and Greenwood Forest and our folks are not coming to you as people who just want other people to do things, but we're putting our skin in the game, too. And given my history with housing advocacy and housing work and working with vulnerable populations, when I heard details about RHA purchasing Amberwood, I actually breathed a sigh of relief because we've been enduring the effects of displacement for years here in Kerry. Not just the high-profile examples of it, but we've been watching our housing stock disappear. I have told the story in front of council before, but the only reason I was able to move from renting in Kerry to living in Kerry, where I work and serve the community, is because someone in my family died and left us some money. And that should not have to happen to be able to afford a house. It should not be necessary for folks to die, for us to be able to afford housing. and we should not have to work six-f figureure jobs to be able to afford housing in Carrie. I was relieved when I saw that RHA wanted to buy it because this is housing that serves folks who are at the 50% of the area median income right now. We're trying to do that on our campus, too. And we don't have as much room. It's not going to be 340 units, but we have been moving Heaven and Earth for five years for 62 units. And it has cost us money and it has cost us effort and it is incredibly hard to do. And it seems to me given my experience that if we have someone who can come in and preserve affordable housing, we should become partners with them. I understand the concerns about oversight and I understand the concerns about Raleigh and I also know that the people of Raleigh are my neighbors, too. that I know that the people of Kerry are my near and dear family. I love my street. I love my neighborhood. And I love my church and all the people who go there. And I also know that through my work with One Wake, I care about the people of Rally, too. And I've been disappointed to see them demonized tonight as they have been. And I would like to see these homes stay affordable. And I would like to see the residents stay in their homes. And we can debate about the best way to do that. It seems to me based on considering this, asking questions of RHA and asking questions of all of you all that this is our best option right now. So let's let people stay. Don't turn Kerry into just a luxury community. And let's be good partners and good stewards. And above all, be good neighbors. Thank you. [applause] >> My name is Mike Dolan. Like many you've heard from, I live in Lochmir. Um the pastor who's just up seemed to make a good point. I apologize if I disagree with a lot of what you said. First question is, do you guys know what the okey do is? Because that's what I feel like we're getting. The okeyoke is where you get somebody's attention on one thing and you get them from behind on something else. The Raleigh Housing Authority has priorities, as many people have said, not just is not part of Kerry, but it's going to have priorities that are completely in contradiction to what's important for Carrie. They're going to be managing a a whole portfolio, and as some have said, the crime in one might be high or the values in another, and they're going to want to distribute that. and any of that will then start being distributed to us. If we decide we need a housing authority, we need our own, >> not one from from Raleigh or any other municipality. Um, and I've heard that there's 24 million available to start it. Number two, the specifically with the Okie do, we've heard a lot of how it's $219,000 in tax per year that's going to be forgiven if uh Raleigh's the Raleigh Housing Authority is allowed to come in. I don't think anybody thinks that there won't be an impact on property values. Take for example, let's say a house is a half a million dollars. I don't think it'll go to a h 100,000. Let's say it only loses 10%. Let's say let's say it becomes a $450,000 property. If you take the value of all the houses, and I pulled them, there are within two miles of Amberwoods, there's 7,187 private homes. The assessed value is $4.65 billion. If you if you assume a 5% annual increase, which is exactly what we've averaged, that loss of property taxes along with will be over 4 million a year. Add to that the the 219,000 over the 30-year commitment, you're looking at $263 million lost in tax revenue to the town of Kerry. So telling everybody, oh, it's only $219,000, when it's really over a quarter billion dollars, that's the okeyoke. That's saying, here's one number, but it's really something else. And if you guys haven't done the math and haven't calculated that, that's because either there wasn't enough time in the process or you didn't care. >> Gets me to the next part. >> The fact the fact that the RHA folks left makes me think they already know this is a done deal. >> That's one of the most telling things I've seen. In the wake of auditors finding the financial mismanagement, I think it'd be prudent to freeze any large financial decisions by the ca the council, the mayor, the board, anybody. This is a chance to instead move forward with a different direction. If you want to send the message that this is all for show, that this is all a waste of time, and that this was done, vote yes. Otherwise, vote no. Thank [applause] you. >> Good. Good evening. My name is Joshua Atkins. Um, my parents are residents of Lockamir for 25 years. Um, I grew up in a household I still live there to this day. We live about half a mile from Amberwood. Um, I have a disabled brother, um, and he often takes walks, um, to Amberwood or, you know, to the church, which is right across the street from Amberwood, um, right up the street. Um, we often take walks every day. Um, I have been very starruck by this um because it's been brought to my attention just 10 days ago that they're going to put um affordable housing um in this in Lockamir, my neighborhood. Um so I'm speaking to you as a kid um as a as a kid of Lockamir. Um, I would not feel safe with these people. Not these people, but um, >> okay. I am a child. I have a voice just like you. >> Um, I'm I'm trying to figure out the right words to say. Um cuz nowadays we live in a world where you cannot speak your mind without other people disagreeing and we should be able to disagree and go on without our lives, you know. >> Um and and not, you know, be neighbors. Um and I feel like if we put these affordable housings in, then my neighborhood lock will become a crimedriven neighborhood. Um like you've heard the numbers today. Um you why don't we all take a trip down to Raleigh down to these affordable housings and let's take a look around and let's take a look on how that would fit into Kerry, how that would fit into Locker. My parents, what drew them to Lamir was the safness of Lockamir and the the proximity to everything, the the proximity of everything. Um, you can get to Raleigh within 15 minutes, wherever you need. Um, and my concern is today and my question is to you guys today, would you guys put these affordable housings in your neighborhood? because I honestly I'm not not want to be accusing you know you guys are elected officials. I do respect y'all um as I've been raised but honestly I do not feel like you guys would put this in your guys' neighborhoods. This is my opinion. Other people may have different opinions, but please do not put this in my neighborhood and let my disabled brother risk his life on the street >> because if if that happens, your your mayor's seat and all your guys' seats will be up >> and and I and I'm not and I'm of the age to vote now, so I will vote specifically for a different person. >> All right. Thank you. And please do not put this in my neighborhood. Thank you. [cheering] [applause] >> Hi. Um, my name is Kim Dy and um, I'm a terrible speaker, so just bear with me. Um, I have actually lived in Kerry for 48 years and I haven't heard anybody here that's lived quite that long here. So, I'm coming at it from somebody who's grown up, went to Kerry schools, um, went to college in North Carolina, came back, lived in Kerry, own a house in Kerry, in fact, right near Mayor Weinre's house. Um, and I'm very concerned about this public housing that's going in right across from our neighborhood. Um, I live in Camden Forest, which is right around the corner from Lochmir. Um, I'm not going to reiterate all the tax issues, which I feel very strongly about, especially given the fact that this city council >> get you not to hold the mic. They're adjusting. city council has just blown through all of this money, which really as a taxpayer makes me and most of my friends and family extremely angry because if I over spent in my household, I'd have to cut back on a lot of things so that I could catch up. It seems like this whole tax issue with this affordable housing unit, public housing, um is not cutting back on things. It's just wasting more money that we have. And yeah, it might only be $4 or $5 or $10, but what's the next one going to be? What's the next one after that? I mean, it's just it it's just going to go on and on, and I just think it's a poor use of our tax money. When I first found out about this, I decided I was going to look up um the RHA housing developments and see for myself what was going on with them crimewise because I don't like to just listen to other people say, "Oh, yeah, well, there are a lot of crime." And what I found was extremely alarming. There's one group that rates some of these places with um grades and the only grades I saw were a C, a C minus, and an F plus for crime ratings. One is Kentwood. It had a C rating. So, here's what happens with the C rating. Most of these are actually not violent crimes. They're property crimes and drug crimes. But assault was 67% above the national average. Robbery was 92% above the national average. Burglary was 50% above the national average. Larseny and theft was 81% above the national average. Vehicle theft was 83 above the national average. Kentwood is near NC State. It's not, you know, in in an area that you would really consider to be super low income or anything like that. I have two kids at NC State. Um, Capitol Park, which is near William Peace University, was rated C minus. I'm not going to go into all of this, but it also had low violent crime, but very, very high property crime um above the national average. The one that really really got me though was Walnut Terrace which is in downtown Raleigh near Southeast Raleigh. Um this is all Raleigh Housing Association property. Um very high crime F+ violent crime 94% above the national average. Um so that's violent crime. property crime was 81% above the national average and overall had a 100% crime rate above the national average. So, and I all I did was I just Googled every one of these properties and I really only got to about half of them. Now, some people brought up the um the information about um maintenance and I was reading that the maintenance requests are like there's 250 requests in right now at Raleigh Housing Association and they're behind. How do you fill 250 maintenance requests? I mean, when my kids lived in apartments at NC State, they had to wait a week to get their air conditioning fixed. I mean, it's hot outside. What do you do? You can't wait for 250 other requests to be filled before your own. Um, so I just I really feel like this has been rushed. It's been >> um, you know, a backdoor type of thing. And it's a a crime. It's going to be the the crime alone is just alarming to me and I would urge you to vote no for it especially you Bella. Thank you. [applause] >> Hello mayor and town council. And I just want to thank everyone in this town for coming out tonight. This is great to have neighbors come together to discuss. Um, I I hope everyone >> Could you state your name, please? >> Oh, yes. Thank you. Jenny Lynn Tillitson. >> Thank you. >> And I live um in Franklin Chase. Um my house, the backyard is open to the Spate Branch Greenway, which um is easily accessible from the the Amberwood Apartments. And I hope everyone will forgive me for not having um prepared remarks, but I actually only heard about this um four days ago. Um and at first I was very excited um because I firmly believe that we should have space for everyone in our world and we should be providing opportunities for all of us to reach out and be better neighbors. As I've been listening tonight, though, I see everyone's concerns. Um the there are ways there are really smart ways, there are really caring ways um to provide affordable housing. My brother, who is a public school teacher in Iowa, was hoping to move here, but can't find a place that they can afford. Um, and so I'm all for Carrie being able to provide many levels of housing, um, where everyone has a lifestyle that they can feel good about. Um, the large scope of this development is concerning. Um, first of all, because it is rushed. As I said, this came to me as a surprise. Um, having only heard about it four days ago from actually a friend who lives in Lockmir, um, when my house is so easily accessible to the Amberwood, I thought perhaps all of us in those surrounding areas should have been notified so that we could, um, have time to study this out and and learn about it. My hope was that um as other areas have done where they do have very successful affording affordable housing, my hope was that this was going to be more of a few units um placed so that no one really can tell within the neighborhood which which residents are subsidized. So there's more of a community um places I grew up in Utah and also in California and neighborhoods where affordable housing is placed highly successfully is where on in a group of town homes one or two town homes will be the subsidized affordable housing. But because neighbors have a chance to be seen as equal with each other, there isn't the discrimination. um and there isn't an assumption of I have a reason to fear you. Um or in um a housing development, a few houses within that development would have a subsidized or affordable or lower income level capped for just a few of those houses. But again, no none of the neighbors would know which of those houses were capped for a lower income. Um, it made it a really wonderful opportunity in those neighborhoods where I lived in Utah and in California um to be able to just reach out and be neighbors and not have any socioeconomic status um assumptions go along with that. So, as much as I was super excited to know that there's affordable housing being um promoted by you town council and by other entities in the town of Kerry, um I from what I've heard tonight, I don't think this has been well planned or well thought out. Um, if what people have studied about the tax issues of taxes going to Raleigh rather than to Kerry is true, I think that's a mistake. Um, I would just urge all of us though to find better ways to welcome all people into our lives and into our neighborhoods that we can have our distrust evaporate because there's a really wonderful thing that happens if you see someone as an enemy. They're going to be an enemy. But if you instead treat your enemies, quote enemies as friends, pretty soon you don't have any enemies. And we can make that happen in Kerry. But it needs to be done wisely, um, judiciously, carefully. >> Your time is expired. >> Thank you very much, town council. Thank you, Kerry residents. [applause] Hi, my name is Paul Cole. Um, I live in Lockmir. I am very fairly familiar with the housing, the Raleigh housing authority. I have built uh um housing subsidized housing before. It's a terrible idea to do in and Carrie terrible idea. The most successful ones are when, like she said right there, when you build them, you mix them in here and there. You don't put a group together like that. the most successful ever, the crime only goes up 19%. That's the most successful. So, if we can keep it very successful and raise our crime only 19%. Why would you want to do that? Um, I am also a member of the uh Lockmir Homeware Association, the uh the uh HR the uh not the HOA, the architectural committee. Everybody has to keep their yards up. Amberwood's no exception. Like she says, it's not like people were saying before that uh another developer will come in here and they'll let it run down. It won't it won't be run down. It has to be maintained. Um we have control over it the way it is somewhat control. Um if we don't if we let Raleigh take care of it, and I'm familiar with Raleigh Housing Authority. I I know how they work. I know how. Believe me, it'll be an absolute mess. People in Lockmir, most of the people in Lochmir and around here don't want that. I know Bella, you've you've come and you've you've come to our neighborhood. Uh I know you represent us over there and I know most of the people who live in the area don't want it. I know some people who rented Lockmir are they're okay with it. I know the crowd over there who doesn't live in Lochmir is is is for it. Uh but um as someone who lives there and someone who cares about our property, our neighborhood, I don't want the crime increase. I do believe it would be good to mix people in neighborhoods here and there. uh not all together in one section. That never works out. It always raises crime everywhere. There there's never been one that hasn't raised a crime. Why would Carrie want it? Why would any of you want it in Carrie? I don't understand why anybody who on this council who represents Carrie would want this. Would would you want it for any of your people? I can't I I can't believe it even it's even up for consideration. >> Um but um >> yeah. Anyway, I I I urge you to vote against it. Uh please do. Um I know what you do is tough. I know you get criticism from all sides all the time. Um it it's you know, it's got to be hard to make decision, but for the Kerry residents who you represent, it's not good for us. Thank you very much. >> [applause] >> Hello, my name is Carla Liberator. I lived in affordable housing 33 years ago. My husband David and I moved from Syracuse, New York, where we went broke um in the recession in upstate New York. We both lost our jobs in the same year. We had a one-year-old and a 5-year-old. We drove down here in two cars. It took us two days in in blinding snow to follow the Mayflower truck to get here. My husband started a job that Monday. And with in a month, the person that hired him said she couldn't pay him anymore. Everybody was happy to not take a paycheck that month. Well, we had babies to feed and I wasn't working. We moved into affordable housing in Durham. And I'm telling you, it saved our marriage. It saved our life. So when I hear people saying nimi, not in my backyard, it breaks my heart. And you can tell I'm on the verge of tears. This community is an affluent community. We get written up. And National Geographic has a beautiful affluent Kerry community. But we need to open our doors to people who have less than us. There are people in this audience who are having trouble making ends meet. I've had trouble making ends meet. I became a successful financial adviser. I race we raise our family. We live in Lockmir now. We live in a beautiful house in Lochmir. When I go by Ambergate regularly because I live two blocks down from there. I never see a problem. I have never seen a person from Ambergate in my neighborhood. >> Sh. Let her speak. Please let her speak. >> Manners. >> Use your manners. I'm really sorry about the anger and the fear that we're hearing here tonight. We're an anger fear-based society and it's all in this room. Everybody's assuming the worst of Raleigh Housing Authority. What if they're trying to create a partnership with us to give people a second chance? I really hope that you will consider this proposal and even if you put it on hold and ask them to wait so you can do more research, these people deserve a second chance. I know I did. >> [applause] [clears throat] >> Hi, my name is Allison Spencer. I have been a resident of Kerry since I was six years old in 1996. Um, one thing that I don't think many people have been thinking of is I work with refugees and as current affordable places like Amberwood who are not controlled by a public housing authority offer some of the increasingly limited housing options for population for these populations who are currently under extreme attack by the current administration. and >> please let us >> and barred and that population is currently being proposed to have barred access to accessing programs like this that they have traditionally been offered right now in Lockmir. We have refugees living there. We have a refugee who lives in my home. She would not be able to go to this place. We have other people who are looking at this place to come and move that I've been working with. Also, [sighs] [gasps] a lot of this reeks of what happened last year with the Waverly proposal. If the council is so concerned about affordable about affordable housing availability, why was Waverly approved with only seven build seven apartments out of 750 apartments for affordable housing and of those all seven of those are efficiency apartments. They don't even get the same level of um amenities that a normal family for even a family to live in. Um last year when the vote for Wavely was called, my dad called out the town's corruption to y'all's faces. Mr. Mayor, you even told him, "How dare he impugn your integrity given the events of the last several months?" I really wouldn't be surprised if kickbacks were offered by Hines back then. And I can't help but wonder what has been offered behind closed doors for this deal. [snorts] Back then, we had no idea just how right my dad's assumptions were. >> Thank you very much. >> Good job. [applause] >> Mr. Mayor, Town Council, thank you for letting us have this time in front of you. My name is David Johnson. I have been a uh Kerry resident, a lock mere homeowner for close to 35 years. Uh I love my neighborhood. I love my neighbors. We disagree all the time. But I want to stand up here right now and applaud everyone here because we've all come together whether we like each other or we don't like each other to do the democratic process to speak our minds. Cuz if we can't speak our minds, nobody's going to know what's going on. And that's what happened here, guys. >> This is what happened two weeks ago. You're my representative, by the way. Two weeks ago, this came in front. I I came into I came home and I found out the world was turning upside down. >> Okay. I found it sneaky, guys. Very, very sneaky. I would like to ask one question. When did this first come up to the ter kerry town council? What day? What month? What year did you guys start discussing this? >> Last week. Why did you let that fall and you jump on this? >> This is your time to speak. >> Yes, sir. Why did you let that happen? >> Because in one week's time, nobody can close a house. Could you close a house in a week? >> Can you clear I couldn't clear out my garage in a week. And you th those that know me know this. But I want to say thank you to everybody that came out tonight. Whether it's pro, whether it's con, I thank all of you for doing your job. I'm not going to sit here and say, "You know what? You guys are a bunch of crooks." I don't think I have to say that. That's not how I meant that. That came off from that came I I want you to seriously consider what you've heard tonight. And when someone goes to buy a house, you just don't go in and buy it random and just jump all over it. If that's the case, I'd been in North Raleigh 35 years ago off Six Forks Road. one of the worst investments I could ever made in my life trying to drive up and down there. So, what I ask you is if you don't vote no, at least table this so we can have more community discussion so we can do not get angry at each other, but let's have real discussion because you did not discuss with anybody. You didn't call you didn't call Lockmir. You didn't call the neighborhoods around the corner. Nobody sent anything out. >> Period. Nobody. >> So, I I leave this tonight saying to all my friends, not friends, people I've never met before. I've never seen only about three people I know here. Uh but I think as a whole, we are against this. >> Okay, you or not, that's great. That's your opinion. So, please vote no. I thank you. May we have a good night tonight. Everybody goes home safely and take all this into consideration. I plead that you vote no. Thank you. [applause] >> Hi. Thank you. I might be the last, but I'll be brief. 30 years ago, I moved into Amberwood. >> Give us your name, please. >> Bob Baldin. Thank you. >> I live in Lockmir. >> 30 years ago, I moved into Amberwood. loved it so much. What did I love? I loved the beauty the beauty of Lochmir. Lochmir was to me one of the anchor PUD models of Kerry. It had covenants. It had covenants and the covenants made it special. Right? Wasn't for everybody, but it was the covenant. So, what do I hear today? I came here with an open mind, right? I'm going to hear. And what do I hear? It's affordable today. It's nice today because of the covenants in Carrie. So for me, it's a vote of this. Is it better under the covenants of Lmir and Carrie or Raleigh? Okay, it's your vote. You think it's better off in under Raleigh or under you? To me, that's the question you ask yourself. What do you think? I think the answer is it's better under you and it's better under the covenants of Lockmare. Okay. So, I urge you to vote no. [applause] Thank you very much. Anyone else? Good evening. My name is Kim Zoigner. I've been a resident of Kerry for 38 years and absolutely did not expect to speak tonight. So, I have Excuse me if it sounds a little scattered. Um, I grew up in a low-income family. I don't think any of us broke the law or trashed our neighborhood or endangered people who lived around us. I remember uh years ago someone in my neighborhood invited a bunch of us over and said, "We need to talk about something." We went over and they said, "Did you hear there's going to be um some lowerpriced apartments going up beside our neighborhood?" And we're starting a petition. And I remember standing up and saying, "I'm not signing it." And I've yet to see any crime or any endangerment. The property values in Kerry are skyrocketing. I see 1,000 square foot ranch homes that at one point I looked at as a good place for me to retire. They're going for $900,000 now and then being torn down to build something bigger. I don't know all the details about what's going on with this. I haven't had time to research it. I do know that some of the research that's been thrown out tonight sounds a little sketchy. 92% higher than the national average. 100% higher. That seems like something that would be newsworthy. I'm a teacher. I've taught children who are from low-income families and are doing their best to get by. And I also know that a lot of people are being pushed out around where I where I talked. We had low income a low-income neighborhood and now we have houses that sell for $1.6 million. And the community that was a lot of people who had grown up together and knew each other were pushed out and they now do not live in Kerry. But I think the thing that bothers me the most about what I've heard tonight, and we can debate the legalities, the it sounds like Amberwood is an is a community that's already there, and that this is going to keep a company from coming in and raising the rates, which I'm sorry it does happen. And um like I said, I haven't had time to research all of this, but I think that bo the thing that bothers me the most tonight and I u I think that being able to talk as a community is very important. But the thing that bothers me the most is I feel like we are equating income with character and I think that's wrong. We can't mix. You know, all respect to people that live in Lockmeir. I It's a beautiful community, but I there's no possibility of m mix housing there. You can't sell a house in Loch Mir for $300,000, $200,000. >> Please. Please. I just I w I just wish we would see each other as more than our incomes and um thank you for your time. [applause] Next speaker, [applause] please come. Good evening. My name is Nick Balmouth and I am a Lockman resident. I live very near the Emberwood facility and it has been as it it's been pointed out already, it already is a affordable housing and it's been being managed quite well and it has been part of the community. It has been part of lock mir and it doesn't need to change. I also grew up in a a family that did not have a lot of money. Did not have a nice house when I grew up and I had to work hard, pay my taxes and worked really hard to get a job into in Kerry. Sometimes you just have to work really hard, pay your taxes and and you get get a place like Kerry to live. I'm I'm sorry that not everybody can afford to live here. That's it's just not there are other places that are cheaper that have pl there's so many places to live not that far away. It doesn't need to be right next to in Amberwood and it doesn't need to change. It is already unaffordable. I encourage you to vote no for this. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Anyone else for this public hearing? Going once. Going twice. >> I was not planning to speak tonight and I'm not going to talk long. My name is Elizabeth Slight. I go by Libby. Live in Lockmir. Been there almost 40 years. You guys have all gotten my emails. Um, the one thing that I wanted to mention that hasn't even been mentioned tonight is none of us are are are not in favor of low and midinome housing. Amberwood's already there. We love it. What we are opposed to is you giving that to the Raleigh Housing Authority. Now, if if we can if we can get a bond referendum to put a $68 million park in downtown Kerry, why can't we do that for Amberwood? We know that they're trying to sell it. We know that the owner wants to sell it. Fine. Let's keep it affordable, but let's keep it Carrie. make this happen. You should do this. Put the bond for forward. You know, we'll we'll vote yes for it. Don't let Raleigh come in and and ruin it. Don't let them I'm I'm sure I'm sure those people are really nice, but just from from what I've heard, just the fact that Raleigh doesn't have Carrie doesn't have any control over it once it's gone. Big mistake. That's all I got to say. Thank you very much. Anyone [applause] [cheering] else for the public hearing? >> Anyone else? >> Okay, I'll close the public hearing. I'll start off with my comments. Um, I'll be very brief. >> Do some questions before we do comments? >> Sure. >> Would you be all right with that? >> Yeah. um uh missing and and maybe the RHA. I have a number of questions that um the public brought up. >> I'm hoping someone can answer them. >> Oh, here. >> Hello. Can >> Can you Can you um address maybe the history of this property and you know we we've heard there's um some money that's put down. There's money that's coming. We've also heard about RHA being only in Raleigh um and which you have shared with us. Can you give us a little bit more information about that and also the covenant some of the questions that we h we've heard. Can you can you address some of those? >> Hi good evening. Um, >> can you introduce yourself? >> My name is Jason Mororrow. I'm the director of acquisitions and strategic partnerships for the Raleigh Housing Authority and I'm the prime point person responsible for this acquisition. Um, little bit of history. Um, the housing authority has a strategic plan which provides a background for our actions which is authorized by our board. Um, one part of the strategic plan is is to preserve affordable housing where we can and when we can. Um in this instance we had uh made an offer on um some an acquisition in Raleigh. Um that acquisition was not accepted. Um at the same time um the property in Amberwood was put up for sale. We were contacted by brokers to participate. Um we put in an offer, a competitive offer uh with a wide variety of commercial uh real estate uh investment companies and ultimately we were selected um as the winning offerer and at that time uh we then negotiated um basically a uh agreement for access to take a look at the property that triggered the timeline. And so the timeline that has been addressed tonight and the reasons why it's of the particular timing that it is um from our perspective was driven by the sales contract and the market process um for these properties. And in general um once the agreement um is made and offer is accepted. Typically those terms are 30 days due diligence period which is a period for us to take look at the property without that money becoming nonreimburseable meaning the earnest monies that we would put down similar to the same thing that you would do for your house. >> Um so the earnest money I'm going to walk everyone through maybe just the timeline. >> What was that? Uh I can't ask that question, right? He's trying to >> So >> the access agreement, there are two parts basically of a purchase and sale agreement. One part is an access agreement which provides the buyer of the property an opportunity to do due diligence on that property. Meaning to enter the grounds to take a look at the physical elements to review some of the documents have been provided at that time prior to the full fulfillment of those documents set. During that time there's a negotiation over the actual purchase and sale agreement. So these work at parallel times, but the actual timeline is triggered by the access agreement. And the access agreement, I believe, was signed on the 12th of June or somewhere very close to that date. That triggers basically a 30-day due diligence period and then a 15-day extension period, which was part of that sales contract. That is why that takes us to in terms of um our timeline that's driving this process to the 27th. That is a decision date by which we need to make a decision as a buyer whether or not we want to move forward with this acquisition and purchase or whether or not we decline to move forward. Um as a housing authority and as a fiduciary of public monies we need to be very certain at that point in time that we can move forward. Um, at that time, should we choose to move forward, we [clears throat] then have a closing period process, which is typically 30 to 60 days. In our sales contract, we have a 30-day process, and then we have another 30-day extension with a very sizable uh deposit that's associated with it. And so, that explains basically the timeline um that brought us to today. And, you know, it's already been noted why we're here today. Um but we need um to ensure that we're compliant with the law prior to making that decision. >> And can you speak to the covenants um questions by the public? >> I have found that discussion to be very interesting today. Um I haven't myself had very deep conversations with legal counsel. So the first thing I want to suggest is that we haven't had legal uh council conversation in regards to the covenant. Um from my perspective um there's no expectation or no reason why the housing authority and in particular instrumentality. There were questions about capital area developments and instrumentality. Housing authorities use what we call instrumentalities which are nonprofit entities to own the properties in which we engage engage in. And in this instance, um, this would be CAD as a participating owner, um, which is basically otherwise known as a sister company or instrumentality. Um, there's no reason to believe that the instrumentality would not >> Please, please let him. >> There would be no reason to believe. >> Oh, >> can you speak a bit a bit more into the microphone? there would be no reason from our perspective to believe that we would not have to adhere to the covenants of Amberwood. >> So, >> and nor would nor would we be disincined um to not agree to. >> So, Miss Glover, do you have any information that would help on that question? Yes, I too have not done deep research on this, but from my understanding uh from my understanding in general, um when you buy property in that neighborhood, you would be subject to any covenants that the property is currently subject to, but they would need to confirm that with their own legal counsel, not the towns. >> Thank you. >> Other questions? Those were my first but I know >> Miss Wong has some >> I have some question uh to our town attorney uh is is the procedure like RHA no matter what kind of authorities come to Kerry as to ask for a resolution what is the pro procedure for that and uh I think we need to uh let the public No, we are compliance with the procedure. >> That's correct. U state law, as Miss Wheeleran mentioned in her presentation, governs all actions of a housing authority and a housing authority created in one city that uh desires to operate in an adjacent city must come to that city. So in this case, Kerry um and and ask for a resolution approving um their operation in the city of Kerry. So that's what they have done. um they came to Kerry and um again they've explained their time frame. Um we are required under state law to provide the public hearing notice which we did in compliance with law and then it's before you tonight. >> Other questions >> please please >> other questions when they're done speaking >> other questions. Uh >> who will the management company be? >> This is council deliberation. Thank you. >> Who will the management company be? >> Our intention is the management company will be the same management company that's currently there which is Greyar >> other did um I'm not sure everybody heard you. Can you say that a little bit louder? >> The management company uh our intention is for it to remain the same. Any other questions? >> And the reason I use the word intention is because we're still in negotiation of a contract. We haven't signed >> we haven't signed the contract and therefore we can't do that. >> That's fair. We can't hold you to it. >> Um, >> please please sh >> I didn't hear Lisa. I didn't hear you say the specifics of the questions I had for staff were about the language of the public notice, the timing, the how and where it was distributed. I don't know who would be best to answer >> and we complied with state law in preparing the notice and publishing it >> because Lisa just to clarify my understanding is you know I I know that that language of intends to adopt you know drew some attention but that's the statutory language >> that's the language that informs the public of what your action may be there are um of course many different ways you could prepare a public notice and that's how that one was prepared >> and the timeline was appropriate I looked at all of also And I want to remind everyone that just Tuesday our uh Mayor Pat Bush proposed to take this proposal out of of today's agenda and we did a vote on this past Tuesday that was 323 and today we opened the public speaks out uh public hearing just we are listening to everyone's opinion and I know this is by law we need to listen to everyone's opinion and I wish everyone will be respectful to each other because this is in discussion and we are listening to everyone same as RHA uh we respect everyone's opinion and we haven't >> please please >> we had the conversation our staff on Tuesday if you please let me talk for the council meeting. Right. That's >> we had a conversation with the lock near HOA this Tuesday noon with our staff and our assistant town manager. We had a very good conversation and I appreciate lock HOA provide enough information with us and we listened a lot. We had a we haven't made any decision at that time. So today the council meeting is for the decision. So our council hasn't had any decision on this proposal. And on Wednesday, we had a conversation with RHA meeting with most of our council members to deliver all the questions from Lochmir residents. And today during the public hearing we have heard every question you raised today before the council meeting and I think RHA already received all the concerns from the residents and also from the council. Um, I appreciate everyone's respectful opinions and especially there are children in front of the camera in our council meeting. I really appreciate um your word or language um to be the role model of the future adults of Kerry. So, um, let's continue the conversation, but please respect the applicant, the council, and everyone here. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Wong. So, are there any other questions for RHA? Thank you, gentlemen. Any questions for Miss Wheeleran? >> Okay. So, I I'll give my comments very briefly. Um there's a lot of information. Uh unfortunately some things were true, some things were not true. Uh but I'll give my perspective. Um I do have a vested interest. I live less than a quarter mile from there. Uh I've lived in Kerry since 1958. Uh so I've been here a long time. Uh I can talk to things that I thought were interesting, the lost revenue. And if the council votes to approve this, I would ask that we subtract that from the 1% that we give to affordable housing every year as counted as expenditures toward affordable housing. I would ask council to consider that. But my biggest problem with this whole thing is how it's been handled. Uh I found out somewhere around July 10th. I got a staff report on July 13th and filled dozens of emails trying to provide them with the staff report so they would have information. But the problem for me is if I am making a decision and I can't give the public enough information where they understand all the details of it, then I shouldn't be defending that decision. Uh so I cannot support it. >> [applause] >> Please, please don't. I cannot support that. And and I realize we might be missing a grand opportunity. But you, we have got to in the future, if you want to work with the Kerry Council, you have to work with the public first. They are our bosses. They are the ones that are in charge and they have to understand what we're trying to do. And if they don't, then we can't move forward with it. So those are my thoughts and I'll let my council colleagues speak next. >> [applause] >> Uh, can you make a motion? Oh, can I make a motion? Uh, sure. No, I want I have lots of things to say. I just wanted to defer to you as the >> Oh, I uh before uh after mayor I completely um agree with mayor because the timing to rush and I we had a um meetings on Tuesday, Wednesday and we have phone calls with all around partners and that makes me feel not because of today's public hearing uh the angers here just because I have the procedure and everything the information is not enough for me to support this um proposal. [applause] But during our meeting with Lochmir HOA board members, we all agree that affordable housing is important for the Kerry residents. So it's not about affordable housing, it's about the procedure to make decision on this specific proposal. Uh that's my uh comments. >> So first of all, I want to thank all of you for joining tonight because this is real democracy where we hear both sides. You know, we all are fighting for the same thing. I really appreciate what Libby said in the end. You kind of summed up everybody that we are not fighting against each other. It's not a a topic about affordable housing whether we want this in Kerry or not. This council has been very very responsive when it comes to affordable housing. We have gone above and beyond beyond uh what we could do in the budget. We still moved the needle forward for affordable housing and we will continue to do that in future. What I understand um from my very brief conversation with RHA was that they will increase the rent. Um so it is not going to stay where it is today but it will be at 51% AMI uh for 60% 80% of the units and um about 60% for 10% units. So you know I mean uh if you think about this the rent is still going up. It's not at least that's my understanding and the reason I why I understand the timing issue here because I agree that we didn't have enough time to research everything. Everything is so rushed from our side that we don't feel comfortable. I don't feel comfortable at this point um saying that I can wait this side or that side. And so I voted what what councilwoman Bella Wongster just said. I voted in favor of uh you know tableabling this for now so that we can take some time and understand both perspectives and come up with a plan which is best for K residents. Um I just feel like I don't want to be rushed and in the spirit of exactly what we discussed today um and some of my colleagues may not uh agree with me but this is just my perspective and I'm just one quote here in the spirit of what the findings of the state auditors are I don't feel comfortable at this point in rushing into any decision especially which is going to impact Kerry in a very very long term and I am not looking at this whether I'm uh voting in favor of afford affordable housing or voting against affordable housing. We want affordable housing and these are affordable uh housing units. I actually like the suggestion even though that is a dream. Build our own um housing authority and you know put a bond and uh buy this property and managed by Kerry. [cheering] Why should we let Raleigh take this property um and and uh run for us? That's just my opinion though. Other comments, thoughts, please. >> Does it matter? >> Go ahead. >> Um, I didn't feel that I had enough time to I [snorts] couldn't have made a decision on Tuesday. I've done a lot of research, talked to a lot of people since then, and I I do I do believe I left room for any new information that I gained tonight, and I didn't gain any new information. And I do believe I have enough information to to vote tonight. I thanks to RHA for all they do to help contribute to affordable housing. Thanks to all of the diverse opinions that are here. It it takes a lot to get out and speak in front of people. Um some are speaking for it, some are speaking against it. We obviously cannot vote in a way to agree with everyone and I respect my colleagues views as well. I understand that people are upset about the m misuse of funds in the town. I'm sorry that we did not provide enough oversight. We are learning and we will do better. It will take time to earn trust. The cons I understand the concerns about the loss of tax revenue. Um, and I perhaps I can get into that more, but I have lots of other things to say. Uh, I've never been as validated as I am tonight about my choice to run for office. I know that everyone does not res I believe you all respect the positions that we hold, but I I think it's fair to say some of you do not respect me and my role currently as council member. That is that is okay. That is your opinion and that is fair. Everyone's opinion is right for them. I care deeply about affordable housing. I serve as a council member and a teacher to families who receive government assistance, including subsidized housing. I work with people who re in in public education that receive government assistance. I am disappointed by some misinformation that I've heard um over the last week. I am disappointed especially about a narrative that those receiving a voucher to help offset costs for housing um may be associated with crime and using drugs. It's okay. You're entitled to your opinion. I know that some people who live in subsidized housing may use drugs and they may commit crimes, but so do other people who live in Kerry and other places. >> I have taught children who lived in McDougall Terrace also because of that reference earlier. I worked in Durham before I worked in Wake County Public Schools. These are humans that deserve respect and we can address them on individual basis instead of making sweeping statements. I have spent hours researching this and I will make the best decision that I can and if I don't have all the information then I I own that as well. I have searched the lock mirror website and I may may not have understood but what I see is that there are condos, town houses and single family homes under the locker master associ um association and I can't find anything the map of Lochmir on Lochmir's website when I compare it to where Amberwood at Lockmeir is. >> Google it. >> I if I have not had in if I have incomplete information, I own that. I have not been able to find it. >> I am not making my decision tonight based on the statements that they don't need um renovations or whatever. I'm making my decision based on the fact about having naturally occurring affordable housing where families live where the average area median income currently is 52%. They are already low and moderate income individuals and families. I am concerned about their displacement. I see an opportunity for someone to come in and help keep them from being displaced. I don't have a crystal ball. I am not making any promises. I believe that the best vote for me tonight is to go forward with is to um vote yes for the um resolution. >> I respect your opinion even when you boo me. Please, please. >> I understand the concern that the person raised about certain groups not being able to access subsidized housing. I think I saw you over here. I share those concerns also. I do believe the fact that this property is being sold makes individuals vulnerable and I I hope we can do better at a federal level to help with those policies. >> Um my view about the tax laws. Um >> ladies and gentlemen, please let us deliberate. Please, >> we received >> we've been here many hours listening to you. Please. >> We received emails and people spoke tonight about the the tax loss and there was one particular email that I remember that referred to it as tax loss and I understand that yes, there will be an effect where um I believe it's 237,000 for this year. We would not be collecting um and then of course that would most likely inc could possibly increase year-toear and it's a 30-year commitment. We from the time that I've been on council for the two and a half years, we've put millions of dollars into affordable housing every year. We would definitely need a conversation, but I'd be open to looking at the idea that the mayor had about however much money we want to spend, we could potentially deduct this out. This is a, in my opinion, not a tax loss, but an investment. Instead of collecting money and putting it into affordable housing, we are subsidizing a small tiny bit of what could be a great benefit to Carrie. And I know we have some disagreement on that. That is okay. Um, >> no housing, >> no housing. When a position opens in an apartment, there is never a promise of whether people in Kerry are going to get that or whether it's from another municipality. This will be no different. Um, I hope that housing authorities continue to want to come to Kerry. I believe this is our opportunity and if this turns out to be a major mistake, I will own that. Please, please, >> ladies and gentlemen, please allow civil discourse. Please, I'm begging you, let her finish. Then we can take a vote. Okay? >> We don't know yet if this will pass or not. Right now, you can see that we are divided and that is okay because just like you all, we have different opinions and we have different comfort levels with things. But if it passes, this is Raleigh Housing Authorities's first opportunity outside of Raleigh. Every new thing that starts has a first. I don't believe they're predatory and coming to Carrie, but if I'm wrong, I will own my mistake. >> Please, >> ladies and gentlemen, please let us finish. But I can easily justify the investment of of taking this tax exemption and putting it into affordable housing. There are multiple entities in Kerry that already exist as a tax exempt entities. This is not a first and um I'm happy to see what my colleagues say. Who's who would like to go next? >> Yeah, I'm happy to because, you know, while I came to a very different conclusion, I do agree with much of what you just said and thank you for, you know, the the fortitude to sit and say it all. I appreciate that. I do um I do particularly feel strongly that preserving naturally occurring affordable housing is something that is well worth our time and energy and it's just so difficult to do. It's probably one of the most difficult things to do. Um, you know, I I've not I've yet to hear any better proposal than what was described uh by the the um you know, the report and the materials and what the the leaders of the housing authority described where what their intention is and I believe this to be right and true. Um I believe their intention is to preserve that naturally occurring affordable housing. Uh and I do support that. I live in, you know, 20 years in in the most affordable area of Kerry, which has become wildly unaffordable very quickly here downtown. So, you know, it's it it as every time I see a an affordable house torn down, my heart it breaks and and I do want to be a part of the solution and ideas like this, I would welcome a collaboration. And I spoke to um a member of the Raleigh Council today shortly before coming to this meeting and you know we had a really nice brief discussion of you know Wake County, Raleigh, Kerry, other municipalities in Wake County collaborating makes a lot of sense. Um you see it in our other regional partners. You see it in the greater Raleigh area Habitat for Humanity. You see it in the Raleigh Area Land Trust. Um, so I do believe there's a future for for us in in collaborating with other entities. Um, that being said, you I think I owe my colleagues an apology because they, you know, wanted us to consider removing this from tonight's agenda and I fought against that because I think there's two problematic things that happen. Our residents believe we vote yes on everything and we agree too much. And as in this case, you can see we certainly don't agree too much and we're not all voting yes. Um, and I felt as though it was important for the the ugly part of this process to be done publicly. I expected a little more, you know, mutual respect in the process, but so be it. You're angry with us and you have every right to be angry. So that this is the discourse and and and this is what I I think needed to happen. But um there's no reasonable reason why we shouldn't do this exactly how we just discussed and that's transparently. We just found out about this and I argued to my colleagues that if we refuse to hear this in the timeline that was necessary for the housing authority to move to move forward with this project, we're making a decision by not making a decision. And that is not how I work. I don't avoid hard votes, hard questions, hard answers, and I don't any more than I respond to being bullied into a, you know, I'm not going to be bullied into this, but I did consider all of the information that was available to me. And my answer really is not now. Maybe at some point. I don't know um what a great project looks like. I do believe that mixed income is right for Carrie. I've said it for four years. I'll say it for four more. Um, I do believe those projects are right here. Um, I want to do more to shore up folks that were like me 30 years ago and didn't have two nickels to rub together and really needed a a lot of help or a little help or some help at all. Um, and I do know there are so many people in this community that want to be part of that solution. And I just want to, you know, I want to say we do hear you even when we can't move forward on the thing that's in front of us that you feel so strongly about. Um and and and I'm sorry about that, but um I can't support this based off of the merits of what's in front of me, how quickly we we had to consider this case and come to a decision. [applause] something. You want to go next or last? >> I guess I'll go next. >> Okay. >> Um so on in the spirit of transparency on Tuesday I made a motion to table this um as everybody has shared. Um we were six people um the mayor was unfortunately um not able to be there and it was the vote as we said was three to three and a tie the vote fails. So that's what happened on on Tuesday and there was a reason as everybody has shared the the reason at that time was I I had been also contacted by a rally council member who had some concerns. Um we had I had some concerns about the RHA governance. How does it work? You know similar questions that you all brought up. How does Raleigh working in Kerry work? You know we don't as you all brought up we don't have a seat on the board. what does governance look like? Um and although we've absolutely followed the process and and that is the state process, this is very different than a resoning um where you have months and months to weigh in. The average resoning takes a year or more, maybe two years. So there's lots of opportunity to weigh in, to hear, to talk back. And this process is compressed to two weeks as you learned. We we got most of our information just a couple of weeks ago. So that is new information. We're also not done this before. So everyone's doing their little bit of our own research looking at uh what's in front of us. And I also knew that by making the proposal to table it was making a decision to not make a decision, right? Because basically they have a timeline as well. Um I I think as council member Con Johnson said, I think a housing authority in Kerry is a good idea. whether it's Raleigh, whether it's a regional partnership, whether it's Wake County, whether it's our own uh Carrie, I I don't know what the right answer is, but certainly having that ability to take advantage as Raleigh as RHA can do in that tax way that they can uh allows us to invest in affordable housing. Um, just as a as a side note, we invested in the senior affordable housing called Rose Park Manor where there are 81 units that those 81 units cost Carrie $3 million. It cost Wake County almost $3 million and they received more than $25 million in tax credits for 81 units. Now, it is a lovely place if you've gone or you know people that are there, but that is quite quite the investment for a small number. So, in comparison to the 340 that this investment is is much more affordable um if you were to compare them and there were one last thing that Amber Wood is a lovely community. Um, I grew up in um a single family home um in subsidized housing and I know what it's like to not have food on the table but be entirely grateful for a roof over my head. It is it no one wants to be there and Kerry is becoming continually more unaffordable for many of the people that live here. Amber Woods, we received some demographics. Amber Woods median age is 31. The people that live there and this is this is real live data are many are teachers and nurses, first responders, child care workers and service workers. That is real hard data of the folks who serve our community. and and I know that this is an important opportunity and at my challenges from Tuesday still remain. I don't have the answers to a lot of the things that I need which are how does Raleigh governance work and carry how does the how you know how was the two did the $2 million that was due diligence or Ernest money was that Ry's money and you know are you going to want that back from Carrie um what what is what is the place that we have where's the say that Carrie will have. But the biggest concern I have right this moment is the fact that we don't I'm very glad you brought up. We don't know enough about the covenants. We know that our ordinance will obviously still play a a role. There are there are too many unanswered questions still for me. They have not changed. I a bunch of them were answered. I will give RHA credit for that. But there's still a number of other questions that need to be answered for me. I am an affordable housing advocate. I believe the folks that live in Amberwood should be able to stay in Amberwood and I want this to happen, but I don't have enough information to support it at this time. And that's that's where I am right now. [applause] Go. I'll make some brief remarks, but council member Craig has one more question. >> Oh, first, sorry, I thought you meant after. Um, I would I would like the um I would like RHA to answer the question about the $2 million because I was told that no money was received from the city of Raleigh and um Mayor Tim um prom Lori Bush >> was in a different meeting than me. So, I want to make sure we have both the same information. >> No, I'm glad you it was one of my questions on my list to ask and I >> So, the question again is uh the $2 million in earnest money that was paid. >> Yeah. So, that money is refundable and we'll come back to the housing authority. >> The money I think she was asking where it came from. Was it Raleigh? >> Have you I was told you had not received money from the city of Raleigh. >> No, no, no. We we we don't we use our own resources. So, could you tell just a tiny bit more? We're probably voting no. It sounds like, but could you provide a time because I think it's important that people know that I do I did do research. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I gathered this information, but where are you get your funding? >> Where do we The housing authority does have uh reserves that are unrestricted uh from operation of properties that are non-federal and not subsidized. We have workforce housing uh that pays for itself and earns uh you know has cash flow. So with reserves built up, we can uh make that investment. And we also have other uh sources of income [cough and clears throat] in uh bond fees that we issue bonds for all uh tax credit deals in the county and we earn bond fees from that. So, so we do have unrestricted funds coming in that we can use towards this >> from other properties. Have have those been funded by the city of Raleigh? >> No. >> No, we have not received any funding from the city of Raleigh for this. Can you clarify were they were they those were those projects funded similarly to what you described to me when I asked you how this funding works um with the kind of self-funding um where you you purchased the property and the rents are really what's paying the mortgage so to speak. >> So which properties the properties that we developed or redeveloped. What what we're trying to understand is remember I kept asking you is there any co-mingling of Raleigh taxpayer funds with how you're paying for this project? And I think we're trying to really understand, you know, right down to the penny whether or not um there is >> the I mean the short answer is there's no Raleigh uh tax money that is going into this. Okay. >> Not at all. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate it. >> Okay, folks. I'm last and it's late and I'm clearly not casting the deciding vote, so I don't really have to offer a comment, but I feel compelled to speak to the constituents of Kerry, so you understand why I cast a vote the way that I do. And I'm going to be upfront to give you time to react so that hopefully I can get through the rest of my remarks and tell you that I am voting yes tonight. uh the the resolution is not going to pass. So like I said, this is not decisive, but in the interest of transparency, I want to let you know why my vote is yes. And so council is not tasked with making decisions slowly. We are charged with making decisions thoughtfully and seeking community input. And as as evidenced by my full inbox and the full house here tonight, residents are engaged. And I agree with my colleagues, if they feel that they did not have enough time to have their questions answered, then they should not vote for it. I however feel that I had enough time to have my questions answered to my satisfaction. That was talking to our counterparts in Raleigh. That was meeting with the applicant. that was consulting uh police chief Sultt uh about crime statistics in our community. And so what I heard here today was a lot of concerns about change, which I totally understand. Uh you know, I drove through Amberwood myself today and it's lovely. I see why you don't want to change it. Uh the change of ownership is not our choice. uh the current owner is selling and the current owner is an investment firm in Florida and so you know the concerns about if the ownership has the interest of Carrie at heart the ownership of any given property doesn't necessarily have ties to our community and so I was willing to think of our partners and our neighbors in Raleigh as owners that that would be owners in good faith um as any owners were and that's not to cast dispersions on a an ownership company in another state but uh they are also not local neighbors. They're they're they they don't uh you know that company is not based in Kerry. And so I believe of all the likely outcomes that RHA ownership is a scenario most likely to keep the community the same. The residents who live there now stay in their homes. Professional property management stays the same. Affordable housing has been a top concern not just of many on council but also the community. And it was one of the top concerns in our most recent Kerry survey. And what I hear most often is that Kerry is a prosperous community, but people are getting priced out of living here. And honestly, I hear less about building brand new affordable housing, which is an important tool, but I think folks think more about maintaining the affordable housing for the people that live here. I personally don't think it's a myth or a fallacy to say that preserving Amberwood means that the teachers and the firefighters and the police officers who live there now would get to stay there. Uh, you know, the the other population I hear a lot about is when people say, "I raised my children in Kerry. I'd love for them to they went away to college. They want to move back. I'd love for them to be able to live here." Well, those are the young professionals. The median age is 31. Those are the people who are living in Amberwood. Um, and I see a parallel with Chattam Estates. One of the commenters uh mentioned Chattam Estates. That situation dismayed a lot of neighbors that Kerry residents were being displaced. And in that case, Kerry couldn't intervene. We we assisted our nonprofit partners, but we couldn't prevent that displacement from happening. And in this case, we do have an opportunity to preserve a community. And so I believe the investment is worth it, especially compared to the cost of new construction and that's why I'm voting yes tonight. >> Okay. Anybody else? [applause] >> We're ready for a motion. I would entertain a motion. >> If you want to you can you >> I'm sorry. Council member Huang had mentioned that she wanted to make a motion. So, I wasn't sure if you still wanted that motion. >> Yes. Uh because like uh similar to Tuesday, I I still on the same page. Uh would would love to table this. Um Lisa, I cannot >> I I think um RHA has made it clear if we table it that will be effectively a no vote. Of course, you can make that motion if you would like. I would just say that tableabling from my perspective, I would support a table. Um I you haven't made the motion yet, so I'll just say that because my concerns do need um additional information. Yes. And I do think that some of these I'm over time I might have the answer >> in order to vote yes or no, but right now if I'm pressed to vote, I don't have enough answer to support it. But if you were to vote on to tableabling it, I would support that if that was your motion. >> Yeah. >> But again, we do know that the that RHA has said that they need um they need an answer >> before u next Monday, >> which voting which is essentially no. >> Yes. A tableabling table this proposal means no. >> Yes. Correct. If that is your if that is your motion, I would >> My motion is to table uh the RHA to purchase Amberwood in Kerry. Um is that right? >> Okay. Is there a second? >> I'll second. It's the same motion we did on Tuesday. >> Further discussion. >> Yeah. I would just like clarification from Lisa please on understanding that RHA has their own independent decision to make whether this is a vote to table or this is an up or down vote is there any practical difference to us in terms of calling this a table you know in terms of saying that we're tableabling it or just voting no I mean does does this obligate us to then have to return to it on another agenda or >> it doesn't obligate you. It leaves it open um and so that it could come back to you at a future time. >> Y you may not ever bring it up again. >> So I mean >> couldn't it also if we voted it no tonight still come before us again? >> Um the housing authority or a different housing authority would need to make a different proposal. >> Okay. >> So we have a motion on the table to [clears throat] >> and a second >> and a second to table this item. uh show up >> and I understand to be clear I understand that folks on um at this table some are ready to make a decision but my reason still stands that I don't have enough to support it. So >> I think um I agree with Mayor Prom Bush that's exactly what I said I don't have enough information to vote yes or no I mean uh if I really have to vote today it will be no um between yes and no but Please, please. >> So, in in discussion, I will support your motion, but that I'm thinking of that is a no vote. >> Uh, so that's >> the result is equal to no. Um, >> all right. So, any other comments and discussion? There's a motion on the table. All in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Those opposed? >> No. >> So, motion carries 52. >> 52. And this item is tabled and vested. The council will now take a fivem minute recess. Good. Thanks. Heat. Heat. Hey, hey, hey. >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> We'll reconvene our council meeting at this time. We have two discussion items. First discussion item is 25 REZ3 ka senior living of Kerry reszoning and planning manager Aaron Pucket will give a report and we'll hear from the planning and zoning will hear the planning and zoning board's recommendation and council may take action. Miss Pucket, >> thank you and good evening council. On a lighter note, this request is to reszone approximately 7.4 4 acres located at 105 and 107 Reedy Creek Road. You held a public hearing for this request last year in June and you may make a decision this evening. The site is located south of the intersection of North Harrison Avenue and Reedy Creek Road with frontage on both streets and it's largely surrounded by detached residential development. The parks recreation and cultural resources system plan indicates a greenway corridor along the southern edge of the property. The site is currently zoned R40 and the applicant proposes to reszone the site to office and institutional conditional use or OICU. The applicant has offered several zoning conditions to limit uses on the site to life care community and nursing home. For context, these uses could include facilities similar to Searstone or Glenn Air. Additional conditions include a minimum of 40 and maximum of 75 residential units, which would be just over 10 units per acre. Commit to construction of the greenway on site as shown on that PRCR system plan I showed a moment ago, and to construct it at least 35 ft from the southern property line such that an average 30 foot wide area will remain undisturbed. Limit buildings on the site to one story and 35 ft in height. provide a 75- foot building setback from the southern property line as well as a 75- foot parking space setback from the southern property line. Drive aisles could be closer. Provide a bus stop pad along the North Harrison Avenue frontage and provide a side path along the North Harrison Avenue frontage consistent with the PRCR system plan and bike plan. That would be a 12t wide facility but could be reduced to no less than 8 ft in constrained situations. that would be reviewed and approved by staff at time of development plan. The planning and zoning board reviewed the request at their March meeting earlier this year. Board members had generally positive comments that noted the proposed uses are needed in Kerry. One member requested the applicants ensure a minimum number of units. Some noted the need for a wider multimmoal facility along North Harrison. At the time, a six-foot sidewalk was offered and uh excuse me, and some commented that larger buffers or open space could help with transitions to nearby residential neighborhoods. Ultimately, the board did find it consistent with the Kerry community plan by a vote of 8 to1. The applicant made a number of changes to the proposal following the planning and zoning board meeting. They added that minimum number of units for 40 units in addition to the maximum. They increased the greenway separation from the southern property line by 5T. So the minimum separation would now be 35 ft. I do note this condition does not supersede LDO requirements limiting buffer disturbance. So it is possible the LDO could require the trail to have a slightly greater separation at time of development plan. They also increased the minimum side path along the North Harrison Avenue frontage. Previously, they had offered six foot sidewalk and now they've offered to meet the 12- foot wide option in the PRCR system plan and bike plan, but narrow it to 8 ft in areas of constraint as approved by Kerry staff. Staff found the proposed use is consistent with live policies and is supported by the future growth framework designation. The shape policy regarding transitions is addressed by an increased building setback and the one-story building form. The commitment to constructing the site's greenway segment and providing a multimmoal facility on North Harrison Avenue helps meet move and engage policies. There's no clear commitment to open space or tree preservation beyond minimum LDO requirements to address to address enrich, but overall the proposal meets most applicable plan policies and staff therefore recommends approval of the request. This concludes my presentation. I'm available for questions and the applicants team is also available should you have questions for them. >> Thank you, Miss Pucket. Do we have questions for Miss Pucket >> or are we ready for a motion? >> I just have one quick question. I know, I know, I know. How tall is a a one-story building usually? >> So, it depends. Um, this is more of an institutional type building, so it could be more like 15 feet, but that's not a requirement in our code. >> Can you explain one story 35 foot then to me? So they could go up to 35 ft. We have had facilities, even apartments in the past that um have sort of a 1 and a half story appearance or have like a mezzanine type >> atrium. >> Yes. So this just gives them some flexibility. Should they have high ceilings? >> Okay. Thank you. I I just >> couldn't get past the 35. >> I understand. Yes. >> Okay. That's my only question. >> Other questions? >> I just have an observation. It feels lonely here now. >> What's that? It feels lonely here now. [laughter] >> You're lonely. >> Come on. Just for some giggles. >> I just wanted to say that I appreciate the changes made since planning and zoning board >> and we there's a shortage of CCRC's. Um it is growing and so you know that would be a welcome addition to the the community because that's exactly the kind of facility we really need. >> Yeah. I and I I'm I'm not going to repeat anything anyone else said so we can keep moving and getting along. So I appreciate specifically the uh wider sidewalk to 12 feet especially for bike um folks especi and understanding it's narrower. The other thing is that I reached out to some folks and I find it very interesting we didn't receive any email um from any concerned um homeowners this time. So either they've let it go or uh or they're okay with the changes as well. >> Yeah, >> they must be okay. But I appreciate all the conditions and I think this is going to be a great project. Thank you. >> Yeah, I'll be candid and say uh you know we don't make a decision until we are taking a vote and so I I was leaning no on this. It felt to me a little bit like, you know, we [snorts] know that the land that's left to develop and carry is often uh not yet developed because it presents logistical challenges. And so it felt to me that maybe we were having a little bit of a square peg in a round hole situation here despite the real need for the housing. Um but I'm also happy to see the changes since planning and zoning. I think the applicant was mindful of that. um you know I whenever we're making any one of these decisions thinking about also well what are the alternatives and you know we have um so many pressures for density and height and so for this to be a needed type of housing um with a height that's going to fit in with a neighborhood character. We've addressed some of the uh transition issues by extending the um the buffer. I I appreciate all those measures. um make a motion that we uh move to adopt the following documents attached to the online agenda for the statement of consistency for 25 rez3 cal senior living of carry and the resoning ordinance for 2503 CA senior living of carry >> second. >> There's a motion and a second. Further discussion all in favor please say I. >> Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you, Miss Pucket. >> Thank you. >> We now move to our last discussion item. Yay. Um, it's anti-retaliation policy protection for reporting improper activities and interim town [snorts] manager Russ Overden will present this item and council may take action. Mr. Overton, thank you, Mayor. Uh, before you with just a little bit of night left is a new policy to establish an anti- retaliation policy. And we talked about this in more detail um at this past Tuesday's work session. Um, Kerry does not have a formal standalone anti- retaliation policy to provide comprehensive organizationwide coverage. We do however have policies and standards on anti-harassment, non-discrimination, as well as grievance procedures that provide some protections. Um not going to read them all, but this policy implementation um it mentions three of uh is mentioned in three of the recommendations listed from recent outside reports listed here on the screen. This policy would also establish a tip line and we are currently um that someone could call and report retaliation and uh we'll research options and make that part of the standard procedure as we implement it. There is no direct fiscal impact associated with approving this policy. However, with the tip operating tip line, there could be some cost. We'll research that and if it's of a um appropriate fee that we need budget appropriations, we'll bring that back to you. So, the next steps if council approves this anti- retaliation policy, um we'll publish it, we'll communicate it to staff throughout the organization, there'll be training and we'll develop um the supporting standard procedure to be able to implement it. So, with that, um, we'd recommend that council adopt a policy statement 190 for anti- retaliation protection for reporting [snorts] and improper, um, activity. And I want to point out that we also, as was recommended by council on Tuesday's work session, add the language to the policy um that that you were emailed earlier today that I believe it states uh direct to create a standard procedure to further implement this policy to include requirements for training for new and existing employees on a periodic basis. >> Thank you for that. I appreciate it. I think I also sent you an email uh Russ about um how do we report this back to the council like can we can we have some sort of reporting structure on a quarterly basis on um how is the feedback how are things working and you know um what kind of issues are we hearing about >> okay I probably didn't see that with all the other emails of the day um what if we um obviously re, you know, recommending that you adopt this policy statement if we work on that within a um standard procedure um and try to implement in that way and then also give us some time to think about it because we'll have to be careful how we report. We probably need to be thoughtful on how we report because there's an anonymity to this with regards to who um so if it's data and you know how many calls or something like that, I'm sure that would be easy to report, but maybe we work that into the standard somehow. Um, and certainly you can always ask me for anything you like. >> Okay, >> that's fine. >> Go ahead. >> No, I'm saying that's fine. Just putting that into standard operating procedure. >> Other questions or are we ready for a motion? >> Quick comments. Um, I just want to say that I'm sorry that we didn't push for a survey last year. We requested a year prior for a survey to happen for employees and I take personal responsibility. I did not follow up on that and I'm sorry for that and I um I'm sorry that a as was described in the Wobble Bond Dickinson report today that a um negative workplace culture developed and that we were not able to prevent or um that from happening or from making it worse. And so that I'm happy that we're putting things Wow. I'm happy that we're putting things into place um to help make sure that doesn't happen in the future. >> Well, >> if we vote yes. [laughter] >> Anybody else? >> Ready for a motion? >> I move that the council adopts policy statement 190, the anti- retaliation uh protection for reporting improper activity. >> I second. >> Motion and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. That concludes our business. I would entertain a motion to >> So moved. >> Second. >> There's a motion and a second to adjurnn. Discussion. All in favor, please say I. >> Oppose. Motion carries. And we are adjourned. on Thursday. >> On Thursday, >> you said