We're going to call this council work session to order and I'll recognize our inter manager Russa Overton at this time. >> Uh thank you, mayor. Go through the agenda tonight for tonight's work session, but we're going to review the upcoming meeting schedule, have a policy discussion specifically around rules of decorum and some therefore changes to policy statement 143. Um since it's been a little while, our last update to the citizen convenience center was in April, I believe. Um so give an update for folks watching on that as we continue towards um you know closing it towards the end of the year. Then we're going to talk about a council committee structure um with regards to some of the recommendations from investigations [snorts] and I'll have a few announcements. There is no close session at this meeting and then we'll adjourn. So, I'll turn it over to Jenny uh for an update on calendar review. >> Yes. So, um this is the update through um tonight's meeting of course and then September um with the work session, regular meeting followed by the work session and the regular meeting and then a note of Tuesday, September the 15th is our quarterly. >> I think sorry. >> Oh, >> I think I have the next topic. So um so council good evening at our last council meeting we've received a lot of questions about rules of decorum and what how um the public can interact at the meetings and also just looking at our current practices what we have in place what's on our website what's on our agenda and then also um what's in policy 143. So tonight we are looking at the amendments to policy 143 and the proposed policy for 191. So there are two state laws that give you the ability to set rules um governing the public comment periods including rules necessary to maintain order and decorum and then also another one that says if anybody disrupts or interrupts um there are charges associated with it and also can be asked to leave. So that kind of gives you um the ability of what we're talking about tonight. So policy 191, it really takes all the information that we have from policy 143, the town website, and also the agenda. It lives in multiple places, and it organizes it and combines it into policy 191. Um, at time it does not change any of our current practices. It just more calls it out, easier to find. So, um, at your desk, you do have what was attached to the agenda. And then also we received feedback via email from Mayor Pro Tim Bush and Council Member Richards and you have a copy of that at your um agenda at at your seat as well. And before I turn it over to your discussion about it, um just wanted to talk about next step and future considerations. So tonight, if you choose to adopt this or if it comes back on a consent agenda, if we need to make modifications to it, um then we would update the policies, the website, and then also the agenda. And that agenda, it's online, but it's also stapled to the back of the agenda so that people attend can see it when they get there if they pick up a paper copy. Um, then we also heard from you about looking into like timing of public hearings and speakers and registered speakers versus written comments and just all those options. And so we will bring that back to you um with options to review for that. But that's not what tonight's discussion is about. So I will turn it over to council for their discussion >> thoughts. >> Well, I'm I'm happy to start. So, um, so first off, I I want to thank staff for doing the investigation, um, and research into what other municipalities are doing, what a better way would be to ensure that we have orderly meetings. Um we did have for those who are watching we did have a meeting that got what I would say a little bit um contentious and we did see some challenges from not just staff but from other people who wanted to step up to speak but um felt somewhat concerned to do so. So, I think this is a really good goal um that aligns that every resident um deserves the chance to speak, every person in the room deserves to be treated with basic dignity and respect and [snorts] that this council has a I guess a responsibility is the right way to say it to conduct the the public the public's business in an orderly fashion. So I think that the rules that you put forward um help us do all three. Um my suggestions or suggested changes were only around a a couple of things. One was to ensure that they were doing what we do in process but but were not reflected. So for instance very often we have if someone cannot make it to the podium and stand at the podium for a long time we make an accommodation for them. So um I suggest that we add some verbiage around um saying that we have an accommodation or some sort of alternate arrangement. The other um suggested changes were to highlight um or or try to be more specific around the term civil and courteous. Um I think it's it would behoove us to actually say what do we mean by civil and courteous? And so I tried to put that in language as well to be a a little bit more specific. Um but still to remove the fact that you know this is this is their um freedom of speech. Uh this is their time at the podium and they can take advantage of that to the best of their ability. So that that's just describing what my suggestion of things were and why I think that's important. >> Sure. I'll jump in and explain my my uh additions as well. And I want to reiterate Mayor Prom Bush's appreciation to staff for coming um with such helpful recommendations and reiterate for the public as well that this is not about curtailing freedom of speech um or the content of what they share with us or the passion that they share with us. It is about ensuring actually that everyone has the opportunity to share that speech and that the conduct in the room doesn't impede people's ability to have that freedom to speak to us. Um and that we are conducting business as the mayor reminds all of us at the start of a meeting. It is a business meeting and in order to give as many people an opportunity to speak as possible in order us for us to conduct that business, we need some reasonable rules, regulations, procedures to keep that proceeding orderly. So I I I just wanted to preface with that. My real substantive change I I made a little bit of grammatical changes. I know some folks in the room will appreciate this. We switched in one spot to second person from third person. [laughter] I just put us back consistently in third person. But my my most substantive comment was for uh item number one, speaking time. And the original draft includes the mayor or other presiding officer may at their discretion increase or decrease the time allocation. And I would love for Lisa to weigh in on whether or not we need that kind of language about discretion. My only concern is is that anything that deviates from a concrete rule and introduces that discretion might be then harder to enforce or might leave residents saying, "Well, why didn't I get the courtesy of discretion for an extra minute to speak?" And so just understanding that, >> right? And I think um we could tighten the language because that was not what was intended that the mayor could say you get three minutes and you get two. Um if you have a large number of people show up, you may want to be able to have more people speak within that hour of public speaks out. Um so the intent of that was at the beginning of public speaks out to say, well, I see we have 50 people registered, so we're going to cut everybody's time down to two minutes in an in an effort to try to get more people, you know, time to speak. So that was the intent of that. um certainly um doesn't have to be in there, but that was the intent and we can reward it to make that more clear if necessary. >> Understood. Yeah. So, I think discretion on an individual basis would invite. >> Yeah. Uh some some misunderstandings. Um and so my one little change there too, again, just sort of semantics from will to may. The the may there also I thought implies that the presiding officer could not at their discretion Yeah, there's one last thing that I just wanted to share. I did add at the very bottom of of the um email you you may see that I had made a suggestion to add in the opening of policy 191 to just explain why we have why we're adding the rules of decorum. just saying that, you know, the rules of decor are not intended basically what council member Richards just said that they're not intended to limit the content of the speech at all um but to ensure that the exactly what you said the meeting is held in an orderly fashion because that was that was implied but not stated. Well, fair to what I [clears throat] think you're trying to say, Britney, with the concrete language, I think it makes sense that we put something very specific in there about um [cough and laughter] the excess in excess of 20 speakers, we will reduce the individual speaking time to two minutes or something like that. Um if we have 20 pre-registered or something like that to make sure that everybody who wants to speak can speak. Um but otherwise, you know, I don't I don't have any problem with the policy as it is. Other thoughts? >> Um I have uh uh add a little bit more about the uh number nine audience conduct. Um this shows that um chairing applause or speaking from the audience are not allowed because we have number nine. So we have experienced several times even mayor um told everyone should not applause or anything there's still so still some audience will still do the uh pausing or cheering so can we tell uh give them a first warning like the chance to warn them again because I'm not sure all the audiences know the policy that this a new policy >> actually I they do and they ignored it because uh we do have steps uh the steps that are supposed to be followed are once you have the outburst ladies and gentlemen I want to remind you you know >> that's not allowed and the second one is >> you know we need to ask you not to do this and you do it again then we're going to have to take a recess please don't make me do that and if you do it again after the recess then we're going to have to do it without an audience and call speakers in one at a time That's the level of structure you could go to. I've never done that. >> Um, [snorts] don't want to do that. >> Uh, but the last meeting uh was basically in my mind out of control. >> Um, and they were feeding off the media who absolutely loved it >> and that's why they were there. Uh, they create stories to generate the audience and the audience generates the stories for the media and that's exactly what they like to see. Yeah. >> Uh, so what they would have loved to have seen is me to shut down the audience and that's why I didn't in the last meeting [snorts] because I was not going to create a story for the media that was trying to create a story. >> So another question is how how can we enforce this because there um >> it's it's up to me to enforce it. >> Okay. Um I would I could remind them and we can take a recess and uh we can uh come back and see what happens. >> Uh but if they are there because of the media, I doubt that they'll change. Uh but I can certainly try. Uh in the past we've gone to uh Waverly Place. I don't know if you were here for that. >> Very vocal audience. >> Yeah. >> And Jack Smith was in the middle of speaking and they were shouting him down. So I called the recess and when I came out I asked them not to say anything and they didn't. >> So that one went well but the last one not so much. >> And that recess time will be deducted from the public speaking u time 1 hour limit. >> I think that not necessarily. No, >> that's uh >> so mayor you mentioned that um there's a response that is being triggered >> but um keeping the emotions on the side in case if this is um you know this this continues how do we enforce this like is there a process or procedure >> yes it's at the top of the red letter agenda you'll see the steps >> that I'm supposed to follow I would recommend it will the recess time will be included in the public speaking because we're that behavior will cost everybody's time because if we don't count that in the public speaking I I'm not sure it's uh based on Lisa. So you can check that because >> yeah, I would recommend thinking things along those lines or considering changing the time for that people have or putting a time limit on public hearings that we think about that as phase two of this policy um because we haven't done any research or thinking about that quite yet. So we can take note of those sorts of ideas. Um but I would think I would ask that you let us you know do some research and look at how that would work and come back with that um in a phase two >> we can make modifications to that this policy at that time >> right >> as well. That's great. Thank you. So what happens when you interrupt a speaker and I see that councilwoman Richards you have mentioned when time expires the presiding officer will interrupt the speaker and call the next speaker? What happens when they don't stop? >> I mean we'll ask them to leave the podium and if they don't leave the podium then somebody could escort them away from the podium. That's what could happen ne again I've been 23 years and just never seen that. >> So these these policies are good as long as they're following it >> because it says that you cannot directly come to the council members and [snorts] like you know be up and close but to the podium. >> So in the last meeting uh I heard from staff that they didn't feel safe. I heard from people that wanted to speak and didn't dare speak because they didn't feel safe. That's what we're trying to eliminate here. >> So definitely nobody [snorts] approaching the council because that's not a safe move and I don't think our public safety will allow that. >> So they'll keep people from coming up to us. Those are actually safety issues. So >> yeah, appreciate mayor to share all the backgrounds and stories so I better understand these situations. [snorts] >> I can tell you I've seen more disruption in the last year or two than I've seen the previous years combined. >> So it's changed that much. Unfortunately, I think that's the norm around the country. People are angry and we're going to see a lot more disruptions. Uh so we need to have a better control of the meetings and I think this goes a long way to help us do that. And I I really want to reiterate I the people that we heard from who did not feel safe um were there were many of them who didn't feel safe enough to come up and speak. They did not want to feel like they were bullied but or not but and one of the other concerns I have is you know there's been reports now by the public sector workers are increasingly experiencing harassment and so our staff um as you mentioned [clears throat] um are of the utmost importance to keep them safe as well and they're hardworking and they deserve to be respected as well. So this isn't just for us or just for our residents, but it's also for the hardworking staff who are, you know, doing their job as well as any of the presenters. You know, several of the presenters were also interrupted and and not respected. So it's it's important that we show there's a clear pathway for safety and also make sure that we don't we don't um allow hostile or harassing behavior. >> Exactly. And as Miss Richard said in the beginning, we're not trying to curtail. You're totally fine to come up and say, "I'm angry with you, every one of you." And because that's totally fine. I want to hear it. Uh but you don't have to be nasty and you don't have to yell from the audience and intimidate people or bully people. And that's what we're trying to get away from. I think the the physical proximity that some were the closeness to staff. I initially my concern was how close they were to staff but looking at number nine the audience conduct. If they're not making comments during applause um applausing applauding and speaking from the audience then they're probably also not standing and hovering over the staff. that probably will kind of help take care of that. But they were physically speaking over top of staff at our last meeting. And I just want to thank Lisa and Jenny for clarifying for us too that we're going to have the opportunity to keep refining this. Um, you know, because that that's really helpful for me to think of this as our first opportunity more than making any real substantive changes is really clarifying all of our existing policies, making it more explicit um and any more significant changes we want to make. We'll have the time to research best practices and and make those adjustments. Um, so I mean as written, this this really just clarifies our our what should be our operating procedure. Um, hopefully making it clearer to residents as well. I did like council member Con Johnson's comments about I I don't know if it's appropriate to list it there, but if we are potentially going to limit people from 3 minutes to two minutes or whatever, as explicit as we can be about the fact that they may have to reduce knowing that ahead of time, having spoken at many um public opportunities Um, as an educator, I've been to a lot of schoolboard meetings and spoken a lot. It's it's hard and can lead to disruption by accident if you have planned to speak for three minutes and you're trying to figure out how to say it in two and you just need to say one more thing. So, I think knowing that in advance is helpful. >> Yeah. And and one thing I want to share um because I know a lot of folks are paying attention to this because the headlines were dramatized as to what we were discussing what we're discussing here is taking bits and pieces that are in several places and pulling them into a very clear policy. Right? We're not right now um trying to stifle free speech or anything like that. I don't I know I wouldn't support anything that would limit speech and I don't believe anybody here would either. Um and I've also seen people comment on um this discussion in particular that well I didn't see anything you know what big deal you know and and personally this is not about the individual speakers that stepped up to the microphone and let us have it. This is not that that's not why we're having this discussion. What folks don't see on a recording is what I'll call genuinely menacing behavior from several people sitting in town hall, sitting in their seats, jeering from their seats, fighting with their neighbors, police officers having to step in and make sure it doesn't come to fisticuffs um during a council meeting. And that was not the majority of people in the room. It was three or four. there was three or four individuals who somehow even though they're, you know, many feet away actually made me feel unsafe. And I and and I understand exactly why this the folks that are sitting in the seats just a few rows in front of them, our staff and probably other residents probably were a little bit worried about, you know, if their behavior was going to escalate. So, I do believe that moving forward, um, in general, we don't have people at our meetings that are are going to make me really glad I have a police officer walking me to my car, which is so at first I told him, "No, you don't need to do that." And then I was really glad that he was standing next to me when I got out into the dark and walked over here to Herb Young. But this is um unfortunate that what we're doing is is kind of bubbling up this policy in my opinion to address the behavior of just a handful of people. And this isn't this isn't about people getting rowdy at the microphone because they're hopping mad at us. It's not about about that at all. It's uh people came to disrupt jer and menace and it's just not okay. [snorts] That's my two cents. I speak for no one but myself. Well, hi. >> I have a question about requiring pre-registration for public hearing and that's um in your email. I believe that's not captured in the revisions. Um is this up for discussion or >> I think Jania said that would fall into the category of something that would come back to us later. >> It would come back to you later. >> Okay, that's fine. because I I would have concerns with pre-registration because sometimes you know um things happen, life happen and people are able to make it at the last minute and I would want them to be able to speak and not lose that opportunity. Um but I understand with the other things like with behavior and you know safety issues but um I agree with everything else. I think the pre-registration is something I would be concerned about. We're we're not discussing amendments to the policy right now, right? We're just talking about bringing all of the stuff that's in different places into a [snorts] single policy and we would discuss amendments to that policy at a later date. Correct. >> Yes. Except what I'm hearing is that perhaps you all are in favor of the changes that council member Richards and Mayor Prom Bush have suggested. And those are really language changes, not not >> substant but I think in this email it clearly states that requiring pre-registration for public hearings, you know, is not captured in the revisions, >> right? I'm I'm talking so what I'm what I'm hearing, you guys can tell me if I'm right or wrong, is the actual changes that are kind of in the the red and strike through. >> Okay. So >> we would make those but not the ideas at the bottom there. >> Okay, sounds good. Thanks for clarifying that. Mhm. [laughter] >> Speaking of clarification, changing the time from 3 to two. >> Mhm. >> Out of all the years, this is my 19th year as mayor, I think we've reached a 1-hour time limit twice. Once. >> I I know as me as clerk, it's only been once. >> Yeah. So, the the odds of that happening is very rare. >> Sure. >> Um so, I don't anticipate having to do that. So, the people that are going to run with this with a headline, they're going to cut the time to two minutes. It's not true. uh what we're trying >> we have discussed this in the past in 3x4s as well like we should be able to accommodate more people who could come and speak and you know what would be an appropriate um time I mean I think this would be an appropriate time we want more people to come in and talk to us and >> limiting the time to two minutes 30 seconds is a good idea [laughter] >> so I would suggest that we keep the deletion that council member Richards proposed so that we aren't talking at all about increasing decreasing time and that we bring back options on that. Excuse me. We bring back options on that for you as part of phase two. >> Yeah, >> I think that's a good idea. >> Does anybody want to make a motion? >> Yes, I I'll make a motion that we move forward with the new creation of policy 191 and the changes to policy 143 that are in front of us. a in addition to the redlinined items that were at everybody's desk. >> That's the motion. Is there a second? >> Did we get a second? >> Oh, sorry. >> My microphone's too far away. >> Uh, further discussion. All in favor, please say I. >> I. Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you. >> Thank you. We'll now move to uh update on the Citizens Convenience Center. And I believe we've got Jimmy Simpson and JT Ree to give an update. And if I'm not mistaken, this is JT's first time in front of council and he is running point on the projects changes that are occurring. >> Thank you so much. >> Is that correct, JT? >> Backwards. >> Correct. >> All right. Welcome. >> Sorry, I got to find my line. Good evening, mayor, council. How are y'all doing tonight? >> Um, first off, I want to apologize for the squeaky wheel back there that you probably could hear for a second. So, we're working on getting that some grease. But um as we uh wanted to come back to you, we met on April the 16th to talk about I believe it was April 16th to talk about the citizens citizens convenience center and what our options were at that time. You all made the selection to go with option two, which was to maintain yard waste and food waste on site uh with uninterrupted service. And so with that, I wanted to introduce JT Ree, who is our capital assets manager working out of the public works department. uh he is actually running the project for us and uh he's got some pretty good news to share in my opinion. So after that we'll be glad to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. >> Thank you Jimmy. Well good evening everyone. As Jimmy said my name is JT Ree. Uh I am the capital asset manager with Kerry and uh this evening we'll be giving a brief update on the convenience center relocation project. Uh there's really three main takeaways that we want to make sure we get across for this evening uh in regards to the project scope, schedule, and budget. And I will be going into those a little bit more detail here in a few minutes. But as you can see from the slides, we currently remain on schedule within budget and within scope. >> That's a great slide. [laughter] >> Can we use that slide for everything now from now on? >> Oh, going the wrong way here. >> The end. [laughter] >> There we go. Now we got it. Uh, okay. So, uh, just want to recall for memory to council here exactly everything that has transpired to get us to this evening. Uh so as council may recall uh in September of 25 the North Carolina Railroad informed Carrie that they fully intended to make use of their rideway. This was presented to council in November of 25 and shortly thereafter the same year in December. Staff advertised a request for qualifications and worked with the selected designer to develop three best options for the foreseeable future of the site. And these were presented to council in April of 26. Um, at the April 16th work session, council selected option two, which included maintaining the yard waste and the food waste on the current site, and appropriated $525,000 in support of option two. And that really kind of level sets where we are today from what has gotten to this point. So, council has actually seen this slide before. U, this is the existing layout as the site stands today. North of the red dotted line is the North Carolina Railroad and south is the property owned by Carrie. The areas uh here coded in yellow show the existing layout of the site. And as you can see now is in orange how much of that actually was within the rideway. So staff worked with the selected design team and our contractors to create a new proposed layout for the site. And as you can see by this image, it's now fully within the town of Kerry property. Uh, so this side's a little bit more of a cleaned up version of the previous slide that you guys just saw. Um, so as visitors enter into the site, the existing culde-sac will now have new pavement marking that will basically treat it such as a roundabout to help traffic flow. Uh, in the lower right hand corner, the green square is where the relocated food compost structure will be. Uh, because of this relocation, this will now be available for a 24-hour service. And that's actually similar to the Mills Park location, the sister location for this uh facility as well. Uh a new two-lane street with a culde-sac will welcome people into the site where the culdesac people will have access to be able to drop off their yard waste and then a new single lane to exit the facility. New gated access along with fencing which is identified in blue will help create space for existing carry operations that are on site now from that of the general use of public. Uh based on the conclusion of this meeting and if council has no further direction or action for us to take, our teams are ready to begin pushing out messaging and notification including signage as early as next week. So, as mentioned previously, the main three takeaways in regards to the project's scope uh direction was to maintain the yard waste operations on site to relocate the food compost out of the North Carolina Railroad rightway and to maintain operational readiness for carry. And as this design stands today, we meet those criterium. Uh for project schedule, uh we were to cease carry operations within the North Carolina right away by the end of this calendar year, so December 31st, 26. provide uninterrupted service of uh the yard waste and food compost to our residents and to remove the carry structures from the rideway by March 1st of 2027. And I can report that we currently are on schedule with a projected completion date for construction for on or around mid December of this year. At which point when Carrie fully switches to the utilization of the new site, Carrie will mobilize to then remove structures from within the rideway, further meeting the March 1st deadline. Uh council initially appropriated $40,000 to conduct the study which developed the three feasible options for the site. And as mentioned previously at the April 16th work session, council appropriated $525,000 and at which point we currently are on budget and are not requesting additional funding at this time. Uh that really brings me to the end of the update. Uh but as Jimmy said, myself or Jimmy are happy to entertain any thoughts, questions, or comments. So, I have a couple I want to make sure I remember correctly. This convenience center was created in the 50s, >> 1953, >> and out of the everybody in this room, I'm probably the only one that was alive in the 50s. [laughter] Um, so we didn't create the problem. We're trying to fix the problem. We've been in the railroad right away all of this time. Um, no matter how much we message the public, there are going to be people that show up in vehicles jam-packed full of stuff. And it would be nice for them to have a map of nearby drop offs or [snorts] something like that or even a handout or something. So, yeah, you can't leave that stuff here anymore, but here's a place you can go. Um, that would be very helpful. Are you suggesting rules of decorum for the [laughter] >> Yes, sir. >> Yes, we are. If you've been there on the weekends, you know, >> and it it would be interesting to me, I think, and I don't know if anybody else is interesting in the first months, just just a feedback in the first months that we're operating just with food waste and yard waste, how many people we do have show up that didn't get the message and just to I don't just help with messaging in the future. >> Yes, sir. And to your point there, we do plan to have an attendant on site to help with those situations and to direct people in those ways. We can work with marketing and communi communications as well to develop something to hand folks so they have it in their hands and can see it. >> Awesome. >> So, when do you expect to no longer take trash? What's the date for no longer taking any trash? >> December 31st of 2026. >> Okay. So, it is that day and and you're not and residents won't see any change or or interruption of any of the services >> that we currently have as you create this whole new road and roundabout and everything, you won't see any interruption at all. >> That's correct. um interruptions such that where they might usually go to drop off the stuff, we may now ask them to utilize a different side to allow our contractors space to work, but they will still have access to the site throughout the entire duration of construction. >> That's fantastic because that's better than what we were originally presented with. So, >> sure, >> really well done. >> So, we did do like on that slide, it was a fabulous slide by the way, where we had like you know the goals and the expenses and what Yes. this one key takeaways. Um I know we have money that we have allocated for this special project and you know it was something we didn't plan for >> but for the right of way we did get some money from NC DOT or didn't we that was the right of way and we just had to give that land >> it was their right of way to begin with and we were encroaching we are encroaching into it. >> Okay. Okay. >> So they they have been great. >> Scratch that. [laughter] Yeah, that I would I would like to say that and and Shelley was my partner here before, right, when we talked in April and we know she's where she is now and they have been fantastic partners through the whole process >> and since 1953 they've allowed us to use it for >> sure >> for free. >> No rent for free. >> That's great. >> We've been very fortunate. >> I want to echo though what what you said, Mr. Mayor. I think I'm exactly the kind of person that let's say back when Bella was young and I was raising a kid, not paying attention to anything that wasn't, you know, hurry, hurry, hurry, go do, I would show up at the Citizens Convenience Center with a carload of stuff >> and a sign out front, even if it's temporary, with an address and hours of operation. Here's where you can drop that stuff off. I think makes a lot of sense because this is a convenience center and that would be very convenient. [laughter] Oh, I see what you did. >> Make sense more convenient, >> right? But I do have a couple of questions and just forgive me because I compost in my backyard now, so I don't have to drop my compost off. Is there any issue with people putting things in the compost bin that shouldn't be in there? I'm asking because I'm wondering, are we introducing problems by having a unattended um compost drop off? I I truly don't know. I'm not implying that we would have people putting not compostable stuff in there. I'm just I'm just curious about that. >> You know, the Mills Park one is is unattended. >> That was my second question. Is that one unattended? And and people much like our recycling I'm assuming then Carrie's much better at it than other people. >> For the most part, uh people follow the rules and the directions. Um we will have stuff that's not supposed to be in there. um our contractor we deal we work with as compost now and so they do a good job of separating that out for us. We do pay an additional fee if there's an exorbitant amount of contamination but we haven't had a whole lot of issues with it. So for the most part our residents have done a really good job of taking that in and and we've seen the tonnage grow each and every year at those sites and we believe that this tonnage will grow at this site as well due to it being open for extended period of time. >> Then can I ask my follow-up question? Why do we need to gate yard wastist drop off? Why can't that also be 24 hours a day have at it? >> From an operational standpoint, we have talked about that. >> Um the thing we run into is contractors from any general landscape company will come bring their dump trucks and potentially bring stuff that shouldn't be there. And so then the contamination rate will continue to climb on that side which when we get into the composting of the landscape materials the contamination is just as bad as in the organic side. Okay. >> So that is why we would continue to have a hours of operation and it's something we definitely talked about if could we leave it open. We've talked about many different technological advances to it for the future. >> Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. >> One thing that came to mind because I also use the convenience center is I'll often see the same people common use, right? We have what is it the 8020 rule, right? A lot of the same people use it. It I don't know what the communication plan will be, but having a nice sign up now that says, "By the way, December uh 20 December 31st, 2026. Uh this is going to be closed." Oh, is that what it >> So the sign the sign that you see here, the QR code is actually active. It takes you right to the web page. >> So that is the sign. >> That is the sign. Um, and there may be a tweak or two, but we're going to put it on the A-frame at the entrance so everybody can see that. >> Perfect. And that QR code will take you to the addresses and >> we can link >> We can link that. Absolutely. Yes. >> Oh, you could have just told me you already did it. [laughter] >> We're practicing good decorum. >> That's awesome. [laughter] Anything else? >> I didn't realize that was a sign. That's well done. I'm assuming if I actually scan that QR code, it would give me details when I if I pulled up there now, I would think I couldn't take my food waste anymore. >> So, we were waiting on this meeting to make sure we had no change in direction from council. Uh assuming that we don't and everything's still on track, then this messaging will be updated to reflect that following this meeting. >> Okay. >> I can't too far away. [laughter] >> Oh, I can do you want it? It looks great. >> Yeah, looks great. [clears throat and cough] >> If if it would just be at the if you would just potentially move the highlighted Wake County solid waste and recycling options up to the top because you have to read all that because if I got there I was like, uh, I just want to just tell me where I can drop my trash. >> We can do that. >> So, you might want to make it more apparent. >> Got it. But if we say we're closing, does that send a mixed message and we're just closing for part of the service? >> That will be that language will be updated. >> Okay. >> To reflect the current Yep. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Good job. >> Good. Thanks, guys. All right. Back to Jenny. >> Yes. Back to me. Um, so I'm back again council committee structure. So, at the last work session, council talked about creating a committee and we talked about bringing back options of what that would look like, what you're allowed to do, what needs to happen, what you all need to decide on to make that committee um real. So, council may create committees. They serve in an advisory role to the full council. They do not take final action, but they develop recommendations that come back to be considered. Um, committees are created or modified in open session. Um and the work of the committee is performed by the council members serving on that committee. So the clerk's office um will be providing administrative support just like we do to council now including meeting notices scheduling technology coordination agenda posting mean spaces and highle summary minutes. Um there's no expectation for additional town staff to attend or provide ongoing support to the committee. It's really the discussion of the council at that um meeting. So like I said it a committee is created by your action here in open session. You shall um when you're talking about the committee you should think about the purpose and scope, the committee membership, the chair of the committee, expectable deliverables or desired outcome and the also the duration of the committee. When do you want them to come back to you? When do you want to receive updates from that committee? And so I actually don't have a handout. What I do have is a later slide. So we'll just put that there. This is options about how public has access to your um meetings. So all options with all these options the any public can attend in person. So being in per being a committee that meets in person, the public can also be there as in person. So if you look at option one with the audio, this is just um how we operate with an electronic connection for our boards right now where they there's a phone number posted, they can call the phone number, they can listen into the discussion. Those that's budgeted resources. Audio and visual would be allowing the same but maybe adding a link. If somebody instead of just calling in wanted to click on the link and watch the room with a discussion, could do that as well. Again, budgeted resources. The um third option live streaming that would be live streaming like we do to all our platforms now. And with all these we would be posting the recording afterwards just like we do now as well. And so then the fourth option in the lower um right hand corner is the no budgeted resources is the production of um a work session. So seeing all the people here um running your mics, running the speakers, running everything like that, that would be the higher end. But again, we don't have budgeted resources for those right now. So in lie of a dashboard handout, this is what I had um options for the scope. So we heard a lot from council um at that work session, but then also in later conversations. Um looking at the recommendations that are on our dashboard, you can see um first and from our annual audit which it talks about developing a policy addressing allowable expenses expenses including um documentation and approval requirements. Another one from them was setting a policy about participation limits. Define what expenses may be publicly funded. Require participants to identify measurable goals tied to town priorities such as economic development. So if you remember that conversation um from Leanne who presented it was related to the inner city. OSAO2 was um from the state auditor's office. It was the same as CBO3 talking about um related to mill expenses during council travel. Then also and there's a lot overlaps here. So OSAO8 talks about covering reimbursements for council travel and education not related to like documentation again reimbursement list um limits. And then we get into WLEB bond Dickerson 12 which is carry um it talks about the and I've highlighted it here the code of ethics that council would need to provide certification to um and adopt others that we've heard were car allowances and also compensation and benefits. And so before I turn it over for a discussion, um what we would like to hear from council tonight is proceeding with like the chairs and the members, the scope of work, the duration of the committee, and then also the public access options and which one you'd like us to move forward with. Can can I ask a quick question about uh when you talk about scope of work, can it be a does it have to choose one of the ones we have or some combination of those or can it be like a standing committee like our operations committees or standing committees? Does it have to have a specific scope of work with a specific timeline? >> I right now we were basing this off of how our boards operate a committee. So it does have we were suggesting a scope of work with duration to come back and I think that would be really up to council about what they would want their um rules to be. >> I think it makes sense to start off with a set amount of time and if we think it's going to be permanent then we can make it permanent. But >> the list is long enough. >> I know. I mean you're asking me how long would that take? I'm like I don't know. That would take a while. What I would recommend trying to get all the council members together in a place at the same time is like hurting cats and it's almost impossible I feel for Jenny and her staff doing that. I would recommend is my personal thought a committee of three and do WebEx or something with everybody allowed to see whatever they want to see. Uh but only we're talking because it's not a public hearing. It's it's us doing our work and they're able to watch it and hear it. >> Yeah. uh would be the easiest thing. I know that cuts out travel time to and from and you can I just think it' be so much easier. >> Mayor, hate to interrupt you. Um but to clarify, you all will need to be in person. You will not be able to council members >> elect. Okay, never mind. >> Change that policy. >> Yeah, really. >> That's state law. So, no state it is. You can run for that office instead of [laughter] >> I will add to that. Um just understanding your full comment there is no like public speaks out at committee meetings. Those happen at the regular meetings and stuff like that. >> So we had been in public. Uh who else would be with us? I assume some member of staff like legal or something. I don't know. >> So our our assumption from when the discussion happened last time was no unless requested. >> Okay. >> So if you needed a specific expertise of someone um you could could call and ask for that, but we wouldn't intend to be there at every single meeting unless requested. And you could be virtual if if we said, "Hey, >> sure. >> We might need you on the phone [laughter] for questions." >> Be virtual. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> But you said there's no budget for live streaming or production. >> So, how would we stream that? >> We could do live streaming. There's budgeted for that. The production there's not the budget for. >> What is the difference? >> Um, live streaming it just connects to the WebEx in the room and so we can connect it to all our connectors to make it live stream on the platforms. production is um more two cameras, >> seeing the slides, zooming in, stuff like that. >> So just so that everybody who's watching understands like if they want to watch the live stream meeting that they will have to log into WebEx. >> No, it would be live streamed um on Facebook, on YouTube, on our um >> on our websites as well. >> But how will we live stream? Just with phone? Um no in the room with the um setup like you see now for board meetings with the cameras and the I see >> the technology already exists there. >> Okay. So we will meet in a conference room where this technology exists and we will Okay. Gotcha. And then that would be live. Thank you for clarifying. >> Yeah. So do we have to decide a cadence and a night and a time tonight or just the committee and how often we're going to meet? It'd be great if you decided the committee first and then um maybe your first meeting so everybody knows when the first meeting is or um and then that committee can set the cadence at their first meeting. >> Okay. So what are your thoughts on the committee? >> So if if I were putting my engineer hat on, I first want to decide what what is it that we want to accomplish and then the who might change based on the what is. So if we go to the list of scope of work, >> which of these >> all of them one at a time? Yep. >> So the scope of work would be >> enormous. >> An enormous right would be we'll go and only this this and only this right >> for now. >> Yeah. I'm just I'm to me it's all council related expenses for us specifically. So our compensation, salary allowances, benefits, travel and training. >> Well done by the way. That was that was better than AI. >> Okay. >> Am I am I missing any major component there? >> Ethics was in the last. Oh, the ethics, right? >> And none of us have pec cards, so that's at least one less problem to worry about, >> right? Okay. So, if that's the what the next one is who? >> So, I would I would think you need somebody with experience, >> one of us, somebody that's >> why not both. >> What's that? >> Why not both? Because then you can have both who the third is. >> But, but then somebody with some experience and the newest. I would think if you're doing three, you would want from those three groups to cover everybody. And I would also recommend alternates. Um, so let's say, hey, I can't make it, but Lor's there, so I know, you know, there's experience there or >> or Bella's there, can't make it, then Britney can make it and that kind of stuff. And >> and just a reminder, any of us can watch it. >> Yes, >> we just only three of us can participate, >> right? I would recommend that those of you who want to watch watch it from home. >> Okay. >> Just to [laughter] >> so it doesn't clear. So we're not going to >> so it doesn't give the perception that we have a corn. >> Yep. And we don't have to post a notice for >> right. Gotcha. >> Well, I'm I'm happy to participate and I know you are happy participate. Is there anyone who wants to? >> I do as well. [laughter] >> I do. >> I imagine this is going to be our hardest part. just um >> I'm happy to participate but I don't feel strongly so I happy to defer okay with whatever recommendations you guys will bring but you will take input from everybody right later on. >> Yes. Well, and if you're and if everybody's watching, any one of us could weigh in outside of the meeting on what our individual thoughts are. >> But once you formed the policy recommendation, it will come to the council for some recommendation so we can give our input at that point >> discussion. So it's not like we're being siloed out. It's >> you go back to that side that shows that. Yeah. >> The work off. It's kind of like uh how she did the policy. Yeah. Yeah. And how staff did all the policy doing the work off >> I I assumed it would work very similarly to the way staff does when we ask them and go look into this thing and bring it back to us and they tend to bring back the best option or a couple of options or the medium you know good better best option. Um and then the entire council would give input and then weigh in and and eventually vote. Right. >> Yep. >> Yeah. So, so what I'm thinking if everybody wants to do it, why don't we alternate the groups? So, I'll do one, you do one, you do one, you do one, you do one. >> I feel like a person for someone like I don't feel very strongly about this. So, I don't have to be in every meeting. I feel like my voice will be heard at some point so I'm not feeling left out. >> That's not a bad idea. We could do two groups of three and you could be the alternate. Yeah. >> For both. So if like example I could be an alternate for you and if you're not able to attend you say can you go today? Yeah >> and I can come in. >> So does legal have any issue with that? >> I'm wondering about the clerk. It just um [laughter] it seems like a lot of um detail and logistics to work out. >> Okay. >> For two groups. >> For two groups. Um yeah. >> Can we do primary and delegates that way? And it's our responsibility like how we do with the CPRC board. We have a primary and we have a delegate and um like we work amongst ourselves to kind of feel like who can fill in >> maximize there. Yeah. >> Alternates will give you >> alternates makes me feel a little more comfortable um >> more room to schedule as well. There's a scheduling. >> I mean that's that's what I meant. Oh yes. No. Yes. Yes. Right. But that's the right rather than sort of a >> because I'm uh the other way. I feel like you're almost creating a committee of six and so we don't want that. >> Jenny's face Jimmy Jenny's face told me that's not a great idea. >> Okay. [laughter] >> So Lori and I have already agreed that I would be committed. Like you're right. That's a terrible idea. >> I'll be you want to be an alternate. Which one of you two want to be an alternate? >> I'll be an alternate. >> Okay. So you would be on the committee and that would be your two alternates or your alternate for everybody. [laughter] >> Gosh, it's getting complex >> and I would be on the committee. Fantastic. >> Okay. Are you okay with that? >> Sorry. Clarify who's on the committee. >> So I am Cararissa M and Britney. >> Okay. Great. >> Okay. >> And then yeah, we have alternates >> and there's a there's a good reason not to have four. >> Fourumor and four could four could take action. And so a quorum then would push us into different territory. So we recommend you either have a committee of three or you have a committee of seven. >> Yeah. >> Can we break this entire book of work in into two groups? >> Good. >> And then let one group handle three and the other group handle three policies. >> Can I ask a question? >> If we did the committee of whole, the committee of seven and only five showed up, is that a problem? >> No. because that's the way to do it so that everyone who wants to participate can participate and I think it eliminates a little bit of the complexity of trying to find alternates and all that. And I'm looking at Jenny's face and I'm not seeing any >> oh gosh any panic [laughter] >> but but that's like a work session and trying to get all of us to find a day. >> But that but none of us want to you know we we treat work sessions like council meetings, right? Yeah. This would be one of those things where if three go, that's okay. If four go, if five go. >> Well, you would have to have at least four. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, we do we would then need a quorum. Okay. >> Yes. >> It sounds like there's enough enthusiasm here to do this work to have a quorum. So, >> if we sorry if we did break it up into two I think. Did you suggest that? >> Yeah. I maybe policies here and three policies here. It's faster. >> I mean, is there I mean some of them overlap, but like the ethics would be separate, >> right? And >> you can make the ones that have clear definition >> this in the second. So like the ethics, the council compensation and well those two are easy to pull out. The others t look like they overlap. They all talk about expenses. So >> we could potentially get it done quicker, >> right? [snorts] like travel could be separated, training could be separated >> unless you do what Greensboro does and they make a bucket of expense money that all travel expenses training comes from. So, it depends on how you would >> I think that would be >> Yeah, I am worried about duplicating work being more work. >> Uh I don't know. I'm personally in favor of the count the committee of three or to council member Johnson's point the committee of seven understanding that we only have to get to four. >> Yeah. >> How often do we does this committee need to meet? >> That's the next question to you. [laughter] >> If it's not we haven't gotten to the how yet. We've done the what and the who. >> That's a good segue. [laughter] But Jenny said the committee can figure out that question at our first meeting. We'd only have to tonight hopefully decide on the first meeting and then answer that question as a committee. >> And then you could make readjustments back at the work session if you wanted to readjust any of that. >> And [snorts] that is going to be open to public. So we will have to publish. >> Yes. All these will be open to the public. >> Okay. Just to move things along. How many are It's like I'm taking a vote, but I'm really just trying to get a feel. How many would rather see a committee of three or a committee of seven? Committee of three. >> You wanting us to raise? >> Yeah. Just get a feel or >> It doesn't matter. >> I don't have >> I don't have an opinion either. >> Okay. So, committee of three looks like where we're leaning and we decided earlier unless there's objection that the first committee of three is me, Cararissa, and Britney. And then we need to decide a date. >> Can we quickly just cover whether we can tag out? Um let's say I win the lottery in two months and I decide to travel professionally. Can then I can I then say, "Hey, Michelle, will you take my place on?" >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Is that we would we would vote on that. >> We'd like you to >> Wait, you do have to vote on it? You can. >> If you want to make a permanent change in the committee members, you would need to vote on that. >> But if you want to appoint alternates, we can do that now. would list you as alternate. >> Love to list the alternates because that way you don't have back and make and have this whole discussion all over again. >> Yeah. And all and uh the alternates we can have four so we can if Karissa is on a trip you can ask the rest of who has time. Doesn't have to be Michelle. >> Michelle is on business trip as well. >> Yeah. >> So it's like a pool of al alternates. Exactly what you said with with all of the alternates knowing don't show up for the main >> Don't show up at all unless one of the three calls you and says >> come I can't be there. >> Okay. So we have a committee of three and four alternates. >> Y >> yes. >> And we're looking for a date. >> Yes. >> Council member Johnson, would you like to start us because we want to respect your work schedule? >> Yes. Uh, lunchtimes always work for me. >> Okay. >> Um, several days a week, which I know that is the last thing anybody wants to hear, but >> um, and really my schedule is now I'm not on Australia time anymore. So, after five o'clock, I'm fine. >> Lunch time would work for me, Mayor. >> That's the worst time for me. Anyway, [laughter] >> oh, is it okay? >> If if we're not meeting every week, I can >> What about weekends? Weekends are ideal for me. >> I would say not for me. Okay. >> But you will, >> this is excruciating to have to do a calendar comparison in public. [laughter] >> Subject everyone to this >> for just one date. >> Yes. >> But you would need access to the building too. And on the weekends, >> you have a fob. >> It would we would have need public access. >> Public access because we'd have to keep the building open. Can we do the first meeting after five in the week? >> Wait a minute. Are we having a big room full of people for these meetings? >> You could just people might stream them online. >> The public could attend. >> Could attend. >> Okay. >> Other staff won't be attending other than the clerk's office. Um, but the public could attend. >> Just come and listen. Okay. >> So, how soon do you guys want to meet? >> They're out of date. >> Yep. I could do as soon as next week. >> Tuesdays when we don't have a work session works really well for me. Um I couldn't do September 1st only because that's EAB. It got bumped for the um [clears throat] >> uh Labor Day holiday. >> We have a 3x4 on Tuesday the 8th. We could do it after that. >> Works for me. Mondays after the 3x4s work too, but >> or before the 3x4, whichever works best for you. >> I can't consistently get off of work at four o'clock on >> Okay. >> Mondays. >> So, what do you think about that? That's kind of late in the evening. >> I don't believe I have that on my schedule. >> You're not in 3x4. It's me, Carissa, and Lori. >> And then it ends at 6:30. >> That'll be okay. Wait, what day? What date? >> The 8th. >> Yeah, let's do that. So the first meeting is September 8th at 6:30 in 1035. >> We'll share the room because we'll do the public notice to be determined, >> but it will be at town hall. So it will be one of the regular meeting spaces. >> Is that enough time for you to get it all the stuff done? >> The notices. Yes. >> What else do we need to do tonight? >> Um chair [clears throat] members scope of work. Um talk about the public access options. M >> go back to our grid if you wouldn't mind Jenny. >> Is there a substantive difference between live stream and audio and visual? Is the practical difference there really just platform? >> Um the difference like audio and visual they would have to click the link to go there whereas live stream it's already pushed out to them. Um there's no link to click. You don't have to go find the calendar entry. It's on all the platforms. But the participation experience is basically the same. >> You'd be watching. Yes. >> So I mean >> kind of like the difference between the board meetings today, right? They're not live streamed, are they? They're >> Yeah. They just have the audio. >> Yes. >> Either of those options. I mean, I'm just going to assume we're not choosing production. Uh >> correct. >> Yes. Uh so of live stream versus audio and visual. Is one or the other easier in any capacity or does it cost anything additional? >> No, we have all the budgeted resources for both of them. >> But I don't know. Live stream to me seems the easiest >> most accessible for the public. >> That's good for transparency as well. >> All of all three of them would be >> okay >> the same for staff. >> So live stream >> sounds good. >> Sounds good. >> Strong feeling. >> What else we need? And um I believe a chair just like one person that's kind of leading it. [laughter] >> Me. >> Okay. That's what I figured. >> That's kind of >> Okay, we got a chair, >> I guess. What else do we need? >> I mean duration. >> Duration. Can we say indefinitely >> or we need to >> Wait, do you mean how many hours the meeting is or how long the committee will last? >> How long the committee will last? And also, um, you just want to maybe cuz maybe you don't know how long it will take you going into this, like just having to look at everything and what you're going to put into it, but maybe go ahead and set like you're going to come back at a work session and just give a five minute update about where you're at. >> Yeah, we could create a work plan and an estimate of how long it'll take. >> Okay. >> Right. >> I think it's a good idea. >> Does that seem right? >> Yeah. And I do like what Jenny said that you know in work session just give five minutes update so that you know it's it's right there out and open. >> Sounds good. >> I want you to make a slide, Mr. Chair. >> Absolutely. >> Have to make slides >> and the documentation. [laughter] >> Do it. >> So you good? You got everything? >> I'm good. I need a motion for all this. >> Oh yes. >> Yes. >> So we need a motion that agrees on the committee, the scope of work, and the access options. I think for all of it. I mean, >> so I uh I if Council Member Richards could repeat how she narrowed the scope down. Um I have that you're forming a committee of three with the mayor, Council Member Richards, Council Member Con Johnson, and the mayor as the chair. You wish to live stream these committee meetings. The first one is September 8th at 6:30. And your scope of work is >> council's compensation including salary allowances and benefits and training and travel expenses and a code of ethics. >> How about carmen? >> So that's in form of a motion. >> Oh, I was capturing this for Lisa. Okay. So all of that is the motion. >> All right. And that's your motion. Can I say so moved? So moved. >> Second. >> And a second. Further discussion. Is everybody clear >> what the motions? Okay. All in favor? >> I. >> Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously? Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Oh, sorry. >> Oh, you're good. Yes. I am um just going to give one update and it's regarding our moving forward dashboard and web page. And thankfully you all just updated uh in part five of the items of the 39 items [laughter] and I will gladly give the mayor um five minutes of the manager's update to update the council at work sessions on your five items. [laughter] Um there are 39 total items as is shown by this and this is a screenshot of the website that you can go to if you um search moving forward dashboard or find manager transition or there's multiple ways to find it on our website. I only highlight it um as you just did and you will be doing working on five um staff is currently working on uh the remaining 39. So at your last meeting um and it does not show complete yet because it was as some of these recommendations go there are mult multiple facets of one recommendation but at your last council meeting you um adopted a anti- retaliation policy so that is one of uh the many items that is now complete but it is one of a couple of items on uh Cherry Beckard's list. So the overarching milestone does not show complete yet. I know that's confusing. I'm sorry, but um there are a lot of things to work on. It's probably larger than just 39 in total. Uh really my point tonight is just to highlight for the public that's watching at home that there is a lot of recommendations and there's a lot of work behind the scenes um that we are all doing now to work on these recommendations and they will all come back to full council meetings for adoption as we complete tasks and items. So that's my only recom um update tonight and we'll continue to do this throughout work sessions so folks can follow our progress. >> And I just want to add one thing. In the previous council meeting we did approve and adopt the anti- retaliation policy which probably reflects on this dashboard too right? >> Yes. >> Oh Yeah. And we um also are working on the associated standard procedure to enact that as we mentioned standing up a whistle uh tip line um that we have worked to do to be able to do that but the policy exists to this day. >> And just a time check at 607. >> Yep. And unless there's any questions. Anything else? Okay, we're adjourned. Thank you.