call this Hello everyone. I call this Centennial School District special board meeting budget work session to order this Thursday, January 29th, 2026. Mr. R, can we get a roll call, please? Mrs. Carlson, >> present. Mrs. Depalo, >> here. Mr. Godson >> present. >> Mr. Hartline >> present. >> Mrs. Kger >> here. >> Dr. Maguire >> here. >> Mr. Martin >> I'm here. >> Mr. Sidellowski >> here. >> We have eight members present. >> Perfect. Any announcements. >> Okay. Um let's start with the pledge of allegiance. If we could all rise to Okay. Okay. And the happy part of the evening, the administration of the oath of office, Eric Bowenowski and Judge O'Neal, can you come up, please? Good evening everyone. >> All right, Eric, repeat after me. >> I, Eric C. Baronowski, >> I, Eric C. Berninowski, >> do solemnly swear >> Do you solemnly swear >> that I will support, obey, and defend >> that I will support, obey, and defend >> the Constitution of the United States >> the Constitution of the United States >> and the Constitution of this Commonwealth >> and the Constitution of this Commonwealth >> and that I will discharge the duties >> that I will discharge the duties >> of my office >> of my office >> with fidelity >> with fidelity. >> CONGRATULATIONS, CONGRATULATIONS. SO, >> PERFECT. PERFECT. >> Thank you. >> Oh, before you go, can we get a picture? >> Can we take about a five minute recess so we can get a picture with Eric and the board and Judge O'Neal? >> Sure. >> All right. So, we'll be back in five minutes. I know it's exciting. Just give us five minutes. Okay, we're back. I hope you didn't miss us. And then just for a quick quick moment, um Dr. Lucab. >> All right. Thank you, Mrs. Carson. Good evening, everyone. Before we start our budget workshop presentation, um it is school board appreciation month and we just have a a short little tribute video that we wanted to show. This is our last meeting before the month is over. Um we still have a few things planned. Um we rescheduled our lunchon for the board at William Tennant and we'll get you that date. Um, but we just wanted to uh have you take a look at the screen and see what some of our finest scholars had to say about the school board. >> It was edited, right? >> Please hold. Remember after somebody that helps somebody in the the day before take care of us. Take care of the students because school supplies don't talk about the parents the school members and forget listen to the teachers and that made sense was everybody had to listen to the teachers. A four member take care of us. Get books and crowns. They give us school supplies. >> Thanks the best. Just wanted to thank Mr. >> Want to thank Mr. Sanchez Peralta for going out and and doing some of those interviews. And you know, they're not wrong. They talked about supplies and the budget and and that's why we're here. So, we'll use that as our our segue into tonight. And uh >> bad words. >> No, no bad words. No bad words. Keep that to the inside voice. Um so but we are um uh excited to talk to with you tonight. And tonight, just so everyone knows, tonight is not a night for decision-making, but tonight is really a night for dialogue. You know, we're going to to walk you through tonight. Mr. Greenwood in a moment is going to talk about just how we navigate our current financial landscape, what we need to do as a district because we are facing some very uh significant decisions and some very significant budget situations as a district. And this is an opportunity for us to work as a team to work together and decide how is it that we're going to go about solving this. What are we going to do to bring resolution to this issue and to use our resources and our collective desire to serve our students and our district and to bring this full circle. And tonight we're excuse me, we'll talk a little bit about some of the the drivers of this issue and the strategies and solutions that we believe can bring us closer. and then some of the the next steps. And so with that, um, I'd like to ask Mr. Greenwood to come forward and he's going to walk through. If there are questions throughout, which I know there will be, um, certainly we can interject. Mr. Greenwood can can certainly answer. I'm happy to answer any questions that you have as well. If we don't have the answers, we'll seek them and find them and deliver them to you. So, Mr. Greenwood. Oh. Oh, okay. I think we could take a moment and thank um Davis and Willowdale for our gifts that um they did that the thank you school members. It's that's amazing with all the hands. And then yesterday when they did centennial, it had all the board members names going down it. It was wonderful. So thank you. A shout out to both of them. We appreciate it. right here. >> Oh, no. >> No, that one. Colleen, do you have >> you have to get it like >> I think I'm gonna put it somewhere in here. >> It's so cute. >> So, thank you. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. is on the board. >> I guess while we're waiting too, I could do a little um shout out. So, we're continuing to to manage and work through um the incident with our our employee and uh the passing of Mrs. Castigley Castiglia. And um I want to just publicly thank the Roxy Therapy Dog Organization. Um, one of the outreaches that we provided to both William Tennant faculty and students and also and staff and students and also Clinger primarily the staff because students wouldn't have had direct interaction with Mrs. Castiglia although she taught there for many years and being able to bring in that that organization was a incredible blessing for the faculty and our students and I just want to thank them for their generosity and willingness to come out. They'll be out again tomorrow and it really made a huge difference and the feedback was overwhelmingly positive and um just really appreciated their their service to our community in a time of need >> and my daughter mentioned that today and she loved it. So >> yeah, >> well done. >> So that was they're a great organization. >> Sorry. Yeah, my daughter mentioned it too. Um but she said she wasn't sure if she could pet the dogs so I told her she could. They >> are there to be petted. So Anybody else want to share anything? I >> I will share too that um my son's currently going to Bucks and of the the Centennial students at Bucks too. It is a conversation over there and a lot of them are are very saddened by what happened that they have fond memories of her as well. So, you know, it has it is reaching out past just past our high school as well. >> Sorry about that. All right. So, Mrs. Crossen, this isn't the exciting part of the night. >> I welcome Mr. Baronowski, but I thought this was the exciting part of the night. And remember, only nice words. Um, it does it does feel like this was uh yesterday and it feels like it was three years ago all at the same time. Um, so thank you for coming tonight. uh an extra day to your schedule and we will uh we will get started as we as we do look at our norms um for the presentation for the meeting and we'll jump right into uh into the materials. Um as was discussed but not resolved last year, the district faces a significant uh financial gap um which only widens as years progress. Uh tonight we will first look at look to understand some of the root causes. Uh then move to discussing some of the mitigation strategies uh that the administration administrative staff has been working on for the past couple of months. And finally we'll seek direction from the board uh on next steps. And hopefully that bridges uh the gap uh between um where we are and a uh financial stable future. The graphing is thanks to Dr. Lucaba. Very impressive. >> I can't believe you said that. But you always do great. >> I've been matched. I've been beaten out, Dr. Maguire. I've been beaten out. you know, I'm I'm left with a multi-side angle schedule wrath thing. We'll see. Um, so the goals for tonight are first to understand uh then to align our focus and finally to seek the board's direction. As you may have seen on other presentations or on the comprehensive plan work that has been done, the reference to a compass in which the true which true north is student centered focus um is in everything we do and that certainly applies tonight uh and over the next five months as we dig into the budget. Um as you've seen the budget process is complex. It is a challenge. It is fraught with mandates from the state and federal governments that lack financial support. Um it is a it's a challenging process. But I think working together uh with open dialogue, I think we can continue to make progress. So let's get started. This is a slide you've seen many times before that shows both past performance uh and um the current budget shows the current forecast p excuse me past performance the forecast and then budget progre uh options. Uh tonight's we'll f will really focus on the surplus deficit line in the middle. Uh that looks at where where we are ranging from a deficit of $10 million to one of $4.1 million. Based on the tax assessment, this slide summarizes the projected deficit with everything else being the same um with a 0% increase, the act one increase of 3.5%. And based on the board's action on Tuesday, we've included a third option which is utilizing the PTE exception um exemption for special education um that would be added on top of the current act one increase. Um and this can be done without a referendum. Sorry, I missed those. Okay, next slide series of slides will focus on understanding where we are and how we got here. This chart shows the act one history. The blue line represents the act one rate from PTE. The orange line represents the actual tax increase approved by the board for the seven years from 20134 school year through the 2019 2020 school year. The district twice approved increases at the act one both in FY14 and and in FY20 and five times between those two years approved increases above the act one increase. For the subsequent six years, the district through current 2526 school year um has had budget increases below the act one limit. The difference between the rate, the act one and and the the approved rate and the act one index during that period equates to 12.7 million. This year alone would represent a difference of $3.8 million in tax revenue. Over the past five years, state, federal, and state revenue has begun to flatten out with increases plus or minus 2%. Despite the longtime uh waiting for the state's budget, there is no real money. There was early money in the 22 23 as Wolf was stepping down. There was some large pushes to education. Those have since stopped. And the state revenue is flat. Federal revenue is flat as well. Our most recent um real estate assessment dated December 31st shows a decrease in assessed re assessed value residential value or total value for our three townships. Um that uh that would create if a flat number would create a $400,000 less in real estate revenue because of that decrease in assessed value which is what the uh tax is based on. Sorry. So this this chart then shows the difference between those two, right? This takes us from surpluses from 2022 through 2024 where revenue exceeds the column of expenses. In 2025, we are at a break even. There's $265,000 deficit. But in 2026, as we talked about last year, there's a significantly larger deficit that needs to uh be addressed. This slide just looks at revenue. It's fairly simple. Shows the sources of revenue, local revenue, state revenue, federal revenue. Uh with the local revenue certainly being the lion share of our budget as it is the lion share of every district in Pennsylvania. This slide shows expenses the allocation of expenses first at the function level which is instruction support uh support services uh debt service etc. as well as by object and the object is is a more aligned with what you would expect the expense to be such as salaries, benefits, purchase services, supplies, property expenses and so forth. And just the dispersement of that 77% of those expenses on the object side are captured in salaries, benefits and debt service. That doesn't leave a lot of additional expenses uh to manage too. So the next series of slides uh are going to focus on opportunities to begin to mitigate these increases with a focus on continued high quality outcomes, student outcomes. We have established three mitigation categories. First, personnel and staffing. Second, programs and services. And thirdly, financial strategies. You may recognize some of these from the discussions we had in December. So, first we will look at personnel and staffing. Again, with an overall goal of promoting student success, we want to look at ways to maximize efficiency through scheduling practices. This process began in early December as administrative administrators began working with building administrators uh to f first at William Tennant and then more recently at Log and Clinger uh middle schools. The discussion started in advance of students uh beginning to prepare for their course selection and the process which is key to the scheduling process. Once the selection process is complete, we will examine the allocation of resources across the district in a manner that honors both uh the fidelity of educational delivery, instructional delivery as well as maintaining financial efficiencies. Our 2026 2027 enrollment window has opened and I believe we've now o hosted two open houses for incoming families uh and students over the past month. As stated many times before, the district is blessed with an incredible experienced professional staff. 60 teachers have been here have more than 30 years of experience. Nine of those have over 35 years of experience. While that is absolutely great for students, it does create some angst for administrators should a large group reach retirement all at the same time. Um, with that regard, the ability to hire uh and the continuity of educational practices could be a concern if we had a large uh retirement exodus. Uh, a 100 staff members, just over 20% of the professional staff will be turning 65 over the next 10 years. Developing retirement strategies will be an important focus to our work here. The box at the bottom shows the difference from a budget standpoint between a teacher at the lowest level at the step 15 compared to a teacher hired at say step four with a master's degree sort of in the middle of the road there. That difference uh creates a financial savings of $55,000 uh a teacher or $67,000 if you include peasers in the payroll tax. Any questions? Moving on to program and services. >> Oh, Mr. Greywood, I'm sorry to interrupt you. >> Could you speak a little bit, if you go back one slide, could you just speak to um the issue one more slide >> of management through attrition? >> Well, you >> Oh, well, just just one thing because I know that was on there and and maybe I missed it. I wasn't sure. But but one of the things too that that districts always take a look at and one of the strategies is as as part of that scheduling efficiency as folks retire and we look at our numbers and we look at our sections sometimes there is not a necess not a necessity to replace someone who retires. So if someone retires we may have the ability to reallocate certain courses sections things like that. Not saying we always do it, but it is a strategy that a district can employ, many districts do, as a cost savings where it doesn't cost anyone currently employed their job, but it does allow us to operate with increased efficiency by simply not replacing. And that's what we were speaking to on that. >> Mr. Greenwood, how many teachers do we have in the district? Do you know that number? >> We have uh 453. >> Thank you. Yep. So that 100 represents about 22% I think >> just just so people at home would know like when we do say the act one is 3.5 >> yes >> what percentage of that 3.5 goes goes right to our teachers >> what percent of the 3.5 the teachers increase represents the lion share the professional staff increase represents the lion share of that increase from year to year. >> So the 3.5 So would it be 2.5 is just >> probably it's that's a that's a good number. >> So then the rest of the district is going to run off of 1%. >> Correct. >> And that's >> then you're going to have support staff increases. You're going to have uh administrative act 93 increases. And that was a topic we've raised in previous uh budget meetings and discussions over the past two years. Uh the extent to which those contracted obligations uh run you know sort of headstrong into act uh n act one increases that are declining in uh over will continue to decline declined over this period of time and will continue so as forecasted. >> Thank you. Is is that also including health care? >> Um health care is is certainly a large part of that Mr. heartline as you know right um part of what is captured under benefits includes pasers and payroll taxes right which as as those increases happen there's a proportionate share of pasers payments that are due uh as well as payroll tax um healthc care benefits uh we've gotten our first look on the medical and RX combined the increase is about 14.5% which is significant it's not out it's not unheard of uh but it is significant and I spent uh a good part of my Tuesday morning uh meeting with the folks at uh the Delaware Valley Health Trust and have a meeting scheduled to continue those discussions. Anything else? No. Thank you. So on to programs and services. Um this area focuses on maintaining high quality programming for all our students to ensure we are meeting the needs in the least restrictive environment. We've established five possible solutions and we'll walk you through those now. The first item under program and services is investigating the transfer of entity. Right. Davis currently has two classrooms uh for district students operating in district schools but are taught by teachers from the intermediate unit. Um, if the district took over responsibility for teaching those students, that is what is referred to as a transfer of entity, uh, the ability to do that could save the district at Davis alone upwards of $400,000. Um there's a similar classroom at McDonald um uh that could be considered u but then in both of these cases uh the focus remains on what's in the best interest of the students involved. >> Good question. >> We have the qualified staff to support that. I think we would we could hire the qualified staff and we certainly have staff that could be made available. >> And I I assume also it's possible that that staff from the IU that's currently employed by the IU could potentially come and become staff. >> That is that is correct Mr. God that staff has the opportunity to follow and to stay and come under the district's um employee. >> That's correct. We we have to give them right of first right of refusal. So to to Mrs. Crossson's question and very good questions just so the public knows a little bit a deeper dive into this one. So we have 16 students who live in our district who are residents of Centennial who go to Davis every day but they are not part of Davis and they're not educated by Centennial teachers and we pay approximately $1.6 million for them to be taught by the Bucks County Intermediate Unit. We believe that through a transfer of entity, we can and they're already there as is. We can take that program on, we can either give first an offer for those same teachers to work with us if they choose not to. We know that we can staff, we can provide the the wraparound supports, we can provide the related services, and we can deliver what we believe is a higher quality pro product because we believe in in the fidelity of our instructional approach and our teachers and our staff. And in so doing, because we're not paying an outside agency, an outside um entity in this case, we can save u very realistically $400,000 just with those two classrooms alone. Were we to do it at McDonald, we could push that, you know, over half million dollars in savings, just with those transfer of entities. Besides the teachers, are we allocated a percent? >> Besides the teachers, are we allocated a percentage of uh Bucks IU's costs having nothing to do with their salaries and benefits of the teachers, but other running? >> We pay a per student charge for each student in those classrooms. Okay. We also then pay on addition to that any additional services that are provided. We have done a similar the district did a similar transfer of entities several years back uh I think we mentioned it um with the uh cheapers >> spirit thank you with the spirit thank you Mr. Godson uh with the spirit program where we brought that inhouse and I think I mentioned that uh at the meeting in December right I think that really had a terrific outcomes for our students right it really made a difference for those spear students and we've really engaged them in numerous different areas certainly in food service where Lori Denny has several kids coming leaving the spirit program to be fully employed uh within our uh food service team which is a wonderful thing to see. Uh we've seen them kids those students and those uh those young young adults uh work throughout the the uh organization here uh which is a been a great opportunity. I think it's been great for them. I think it's been great for us and I think it certainly has done at a savings to the district. >> Mr. Greenwood, the um transfer of equity, can that I I see here that it says the district is awaiting the TOE from the IU. Can we do that anytime or are we locked into like a certain time frame or >> um Heather was there this uh today right and sharing that sharing that with them right so I think we are prepared to do that I think they're aware that we are making these considerations >> the timing >> is there yeah can we can we do this transfer of equity at our discretion or are we do we have to wait like a is like a school year end of school year calendar type thing >> oh sorry oh man Sorry. Sorry. >> You don't want to put me in front of a microphone. >> Hello. >> So, the timing of this was really perfect because we sat with the IU today, which was not, so that you know, not in preparation for this meeting. Yes. >> It was actually on my calendar the day I showed up to work here. >> Good. And yeah, >> today we were we went through a whole what we call the contracted cost meeting. And in that meeting, we are we do a couple things. We reconcile our costs for moving from the midyear point to the end of the year to determine if we are going to be on target for what we thought we were going to spend for the 2526 school year. That's the first part of the meeting. And that really involves determining if the list that the IU is presenting us with is equivalent to the list that we're keeping. And then what we do is we're presented with an entire document that's pages long that looks a lot like a shopping list. And so it will say the cost for this type of student per year. Now, the important thing to realize when you're given this cost is that the the tuition only includes the teachers. The tuition does not include any. Everything else, as I like to say, is alle. So any related service if there's a PCA, a nurse, what have you is an additional cost. Um we we will have to present our final contracted costs to the IU by May 21st. The beauty of that is that is after our May 12th board meeting. So the timing actually is is the way it worked out this year is really good because we now can really investigate which this does take investigation on a lot of levels. We can now investigate um and really determine what is best for our children and best for providing the services. We can then present it to the board. Of course, we'll be having a lot of conversations for May 12th and then give our final contracted cost to the IU for on the 21st. So, it's it's beautiful in that way. >> Thank you. >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Uh the second potential savings lies in better analyzing our out of district placements. Dr. Lucaba has shared many times over the past seven months, no one is better prepared to teach our our students than our teachers. Uh so this area focuses on implementing processes and strategies and interventions to see how best to meet student needs in district classrooms. To Heather's Heather's intro was was fantastic. Right? So, as we look at the bottom of this slide first before we go to the top, right? The 26 27 projected IU tuition costs. Right? So, the sheet, the shopping list that she referred to, right? The alle cart menu is due to increase. If everything stayed the same, it would increase by $761,000 next year in to educate those same t students. That's an increase of 10.5%. Um, and that is not uncommon, right? We've talked about this in prior years. Not only are the number of students that we are sending increasing, but the rates themselves that not just the IU but out of district placements across the county and uh you know and far and wide continue to increase at exorbitant rates. This chart just shows the total outofd district population if you will uh for 2526 is is estimated to be almost $9 million. uh made up in tuitions uh based on uh the IU students who we sent to the IU uh settlement tuitions that we board approves as well as other outofd district uh placements. >> Um can I ask you a question here? >> Yes. >> Um when you mention tuition here that does not mean that it is including all the alocart services. Absolutely. It does not Mr. Godson thank you. It does not as as uh Heather shared as well right it is tuition only right so their alocart charges which there's not as great a margin on they would would increase as well >> I mean these these are the things that two years ago we were asking about. >> Yep. >> When when referring to the rates. >> Yes. Correct. and and the percentage of increase and what if anything we were able to bring back in the district >> and do better and more efficient. >> We're back to there. >> Yep. >> How much kickback from the community do you think um there would be if we're trying to keep services within the district? because I know this was brought up in May and um parents were so um the some of community members were upset about it about special ed, what was going to happen to special ed, etc. So, what do you think that the communities are um going to feel about anything bringing stuff back or take the IU away or >> I I I think our focus and and I'll turn it uh quickly over to Dr. Lucabal, right? Our focus remains being student focused, right? What is in the best need of those students? And we'll make that determination with each and every student. Yeah. The the first thing that's really important to say, and I I can't emphasize this enough, none of this is predetermined. What that means is that we're not going in saying, "Hey, this is what we want to do. This is the number we want, and this is what we're trying to get." There's not a predetermination of any of that. It is critically important that we keep that student- centered focus and that we work with families. And so any decision that we would make regarding the bringing back of students and I'll give you an example. Let's say that we look at our out of district placements and what what uh the slide previously talked that we have um 99 students placed out of the district that doesn't uh include the other settlement costs than other placements as well. Placements at Keystone Academy, Bucks Learning Academy, places that that are more behavior driven. The cost that we pay per year, $9 million, is very exorbitant. There are times when an out of district placement is absolutely appropriate. It may be the only way to best meet a child's needs and we acknowledge that and we would support that. But let's say for example we have a cohort of students who are placed out of district with a similar diagnosis or or or or a need that we could identify saying wait a minute we could bring back a class of let's say low incident autistic support students. We could bring back four or five students that are placed out of district sometimes at $150 $200,000 a person a student. We could build over time working with families too. Over time we could build the curriculum, the staffing, the related services, the supports and all of that integrated. And then we could develop a classroom and then bring those students back in and be educated by Centennial teachers who are highly trained, who are excellent, and who can deliver a continuum of services with fidelity to families and meet those needs. And those students don't have to get on a bus and travel 30, 40, 50 minutes to an alternative setting. They are able to take part in their school. They can be educated in their school with their friends. They can be included in other classes. They can take part in assemblies and school culture things and actually be part of our community and educated by our community and frankly done well because we have no oversight. When we place a student out of district, we don't have that day-to-day oversight. We don't have that ability to see the progression and the things. Sure, there are meetings. There are milestone meetings, benchmark meetings, but the day-to-day implementation is out of our control. And I surmise that Centennial can do it better than many of these out of district placements. And if we look to do that and if we have that mindset and we work with our families and we educate our families, that is the most critical piece that none of this is done to someone, it's done with them. And if we do it that way with respect and dignity and integrity and communication and clear lines and thoughtful programming, I think the push back would be minimal because we have done it the right way. >> Of course, we would make sure we have um our families, our parental consent on board with us. We wouldn't just do something that the parents are not happy with. >> Absolutely. 100%. And I think this is a You can't keep 100% of the people happy, >> right? >> This works out by my calculation, $91,000 a student. That's a little excessive. And if that was in the best interest of the community in general, including the taxpayers, that has to be taken into consideration as well. And they can debate which is better between whomever. as long as a good education shouldn't matter really. >> But we we do have to make sure our families are on board. >> How many what percentage of the 99 you want on board? 99 100%. >> Well, no one's going to know their child. >> No one's going to know the child more than mom and dad or their caregivers. >> There are things that the IU does exceptionally well. I mean, having been on their board for eight years. Okay. There are students that have specific needs that the IU has developed programs around special rooms for safety measures, those things. So, yeah, all 99 would never come back in. It's just not realistic. There are certain things that we as a district could not provide the services to the quality that needs to be for those individuals. I I can go back a few years ago. I mean, we had a school in Langghorn at the time that um the work they were doing with with children that had brain stem injuries and and those types of things was just incredible. Um obviously those students are ones that we are not equipped to deal with but the ability I mean it's you weigh equal education with the opportunity for these students to be with their friends at lunch to be in cohorts with them during assemblies and and the mental stuff. And yeah, there are going to be some parents that are going to be resistance to change. But you know, a number of years ago in a previous board, we made a decision to keep all of an artist autistic support group from sixth grade through 12th grade together regardless of the cost to the district because it was what was best for the students. And the parents were very very receptive of that and very happy that we had made that determination. >> Yeah. And to your point, Dr. I'm sorry. I was just going to make the point. Sorry, Tony. Um, the oversight piece. So, let's say you put a kiddo in a social support classroom out of district when he was in kindergarten. Kids now in middle school might be doing just fine and doesn't need that out of district placement. Like what you were saying, Dr. Luke, about about the oversight. Just putting eyes on the kid on a dayto-day is worthwhile, I think, and understanding how they're doing overall. >> Right. and and to have ownership and autonomy over the programming as a district. And I will tell you some of the most impressive things you'll see is our our special education teachers and especially in our our low incident autistic support or MDS classrooms and the job they do is further proof. And I would encourage, you know, if anyone would ever be interested on the board in in visiting a classroom to see the professionalism and the care and what they do here, I think reinforces the point that that our teachers can do it better. The goal though, Mr. Morton, would not be to bring back all 99. It would be to be very selective. We couldn't do it. >> I never said to bring back >> Okay. Okay. But you said was you're not going to get every parent to agree that that is the appropriate thing. >> Correct. And and correct. And we wouldn't approach it trying to get them to agree. We would simply say, "What if I told you that we could educate your son at Davis and we could have a classroom with four other students and we would have everything we needed and he could take the bus 6 minutes and not 45." And that's how you approach it. >> And a lot of it has to do with how you said not just the community and you said just to bring everybody to the table and that >> yeah it's an it's an IEP team decision. I mean they come together around around that plan and that document and they collaboratively make that decision. We we would never ever approach that outside of that parental consent and involvement. Can I ask another question about Thank you, by the way. Um about the settlements. We did we voted about a couple settlements the other day. Um educational settlements and where is it that we're is the word failing that we have to have um offer settlements educ for a couple years or what's happening not? So I I it it's that's that's a very nuanced u it's hard to say if where where failures are, but it one of the things that we're doing and and um it's the second bullet on this slide in particular and and Dr. Hopkins and her team are working on this u very hard at work on this is making sure that we're controlling everything in our control as a district. That's what it boils down to. You know, are we implementing are we writing legally defensible IEPS? Are we implementing our IEPs with fidelity? Are we providing in a timely fashion the appropriate related supports and services that we need? And as long as we continue to do things according to IDA, chapter 14, chapter 15, and do the right things and implement and meet our timelines and do all of that, we can absolutely reduce the need for settlements. Not eliminate them. Sometimes it comes to that, but quality control minimizes the need to for settlements long term. >> And I I believe too that we have done several inservices regarding this. >> We are and we continue to do it. We continue to do it's all about education and our teachers are excellent. They're they're they're always willing to learn and revisit and we're strengthening that aspect of our programming. >> I say I was a fly on the wall during one of them. Oh yeah, >> I think it's also important that this is a longer range plan too, right? This doesn't happen overnight as Dr. Luke shared in the very beginning, right? We have to develop the team, the staff, make sure that they're trained, make sure they're prepared uh for those changes. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions? Um the third area uh for consideration is exploring new contracts for related services that include such things as speech uh occupational physical and physical therapies to uh to name a few. So looking at opportunities to evaluate our current list of vendors uh and and see where we can uh perhaps consolidate uh or can uh perhaps negotiate a reduced rate. The fourth area is a focus on uh budget projections that align with identified needs. In 23 24 we over spent when compared to the budget at a particular placement. Uh but then in 2425 we sort of o we overcorrected uh and created and created an undue burden on our budget. Uh you may recall you know middle of last year I think with the finance committee and Mr. Hartline we began counting every month we would look at the number of students that were placed and the am number budgeted. Right. And that allowed us to uh very closely target and track where we would be at the end of the year relative to that uh budget and it helped us maintain uh our uh projections for that year as we went through the year. So similarly, I think those are ideas that we continue to work on and continue to work with Dr. Hopkins and the and the team to to more narrowly bring that budget process together. This slide just shows uh the differences. You can see in 23 24 actuals exceed the budget. 2425 the budget out exceeds the actuals. Uh and then 2 526 is year-to- date is where we're at. Uh so we are tracking behind the budget. Um sometimes those are true savings. Sometimes their expenses are found elsewhere uh as students are are being taught here. Uh and those assumptions change. >> So and we are no longer in the lag period with the IU. Everything now has been tred up and we are >> we 100% right. So we made that decision I think within the finance committee and we we caught up 23 24. We paid that last year. did not roll into the contract and we squared up with 2425 which now going forward all schools are doing that. >> Wonderful. >> Mr. Greenwood, did the lack of receiving our budget um for as many months as we did this year contribute to us, >> you know, the timing of of our school district budget. >> Yeah. No, no, no, no. We received from the state. Yeah. um as as we did, right? We we we we're not we're not afforded the option to not do our budget, right? So, uh while we had to wait for the state and we had to wait for the money, that was all sort of a drag, uh but doesn't actually impact once we get going. >> Thank you. >> It's kind of a wash between investment income and what we got in a minor raise. So, we lost investment income. I remember you talking about >> and then what we got in the increase in our budget >> made up for that >> made up for the lost investment income >> completely >> kind of >> it's a push >> it's a push >> but if we had gotten our budget on time we'd be a couple hundred thousand more ahead of the ball game. >> Gotcha. And that's why I asked I remember you talking about that earlier in the year. >> Thank you. >> It did cost us. >> Yes. So I think dollars and cents >> dollars and cents and you have to I mean it's >> delay in the >> county in general is an affluent area. So the our increases are not going to be as great as they are going to be in areas that are considered to be of higher need. >> There were some districts you know Marsville right that had to go out and borrow money to keep the lights on. Right. >> Those those districts really took it on the chin. Yep. >> Question. Um, have we received for students that have come into our district from outside, are we up to date on getting the money from the district? >> We continue to do that. We continue to work through that process. We continue to mail out the invoices. We continue uh to look at that. We're looking at that on a monthly basis now uh and looking to invoice on a quarterly basis >> uh for those services. So students who who live outside of our district but are uh educated inside of our district uh we are I think the number currently is around $200,000 $225,000. Uh I think we are anticipating in the budget $500,000 uh this year as well as next year. >> That includes also coming from their portion from the state as well as from the district. Their district >> uh it includes a a a charge sort of like an outplacement. So we are charging the the school that they're coming from for their uh education uh as a as a rate as well as transportation or any other additional costs that we incur. If those students are attending an outplacement, we charge them that full tuition for that outplacement as well as transportation. >> And Karen, are you asking does the does that home district get their funds from this? Is that what you're asking? I just want to make sure we the way we're trying to go out after >> the money that's that's due to us. >> Yeah. >> I just want to make sure that that's up to date and happening. >> Yeah. That that that >> process and >> Mrs. Kger that that that is a protocol that we have put in place where we are very tight now on that. We are not going to allow any of that money to sit out there unclaimed. So students who are are placed within district who attend let's say you know someone attends a district in Lancaster or or anywhere in the state Pittsburgh and they happen to be here uh we use that that process that 1306 the 1405 process to make sure that we are recouping that tuition money and that that has been tightened. >> Do we have a dollar amount that we've brought in from that? >> I I can I'll report on it tomorrow in the weekly update. I'll include that. >> Thank you. How successful have we been in recuperating recuperating the last two years worth of funding? >> Um not as successful as we are right now. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Um the last uh the last focus area uh within this group is is better analyzing uh pre purchased out of district slots. Um so schools can prep purchase seats at an out of district placement at a discounted rate which is wonderful uh unless we don't use end up using that seat. So if we buy it and we don't use it we haven't saved any money. We've in fact probably lost money. So analyzing that a little more closely um is is a key to uh this uh focus area. In reviewing the slots at the IU as we mentioned earlier right we took a nearly at the bottom of this that group here we increased uh roughly 60% uh from 24 23 24 to 24 25 uh as a reaction to being under uh under budget the years before. Um and we need to tie that more in in reality. We need to tie that more to students. Although in in the discussions that I had with the team at that time, we'd look at a list we had identified people uh but there's more we can do around that uh to better align those resources um in that process. I think the higher ones as you can see at Lakeside Lakeside we had 15 uh 17 slots we had 18 students 23 24 we had 15 slots we had 13 students were placed in total. So there's that's a little closer. But when we looked at, you know, Keystone, we have five slots. That's the max you can buy. We have 15 students there. Five slots. We had 11 students there uh this year. So I think we it's not one or the other, but I think it's a meth a methodology to evaluating those uh students. >> Yeah. >> Why do they have to be pre purchased? >> They they don't have to be pre- purchased. And that's really the the an analysis that we want to do, right? to the extent that we know they are going to be filled, right? If we're we know we're going to fill the Keystone spots, we are going to get a discount for those spots. So, it makes business sense as you would certainly understand to uh to take the discount. >> So, but but that that is a it is a very good question. The question is why do we have to pre- purchase and predominantly the answer is we don't. Now, we want to look at historical trends and not not get seats because if we need to utilize these outside placement facilities, we want to be sure that we have something there. But that said, that's where we have to look at historical trends because take for example that the bottom the BCIU in in 2425, we purchased 83 slots and we placed 55 students. That means we've look we ate 1.4 4 million roughly because we paid for all of that and then we didn't use it and we never needed to do that. And my point is this. The other thing it's a mindset and I I am very comfortable going on record as saying this. If you buy 30 slots, people have the mindset of like, well, we have 30 slots, might as well use them. Or we could work with families and students. And we are working with children. And look, being an adult is hard. Being a kid is hard. And sometimes you go through hard things. But I think we should work with our kids as much as possible. And I think we work with families. And yes, it's and I'm speaking from the lens of a of a high school principal as an example. There are students who can be very difficult, but I think we have a responsibility to work with them. Now, if it gets to the point where there's a safety issue, I'm sorry, I don't mean to turn my back. Here I am. I've been looking. Um, if there's an issue where there's a there there's a tremendous safety issue or something that just can't be mitigated at the school level, sure, there are options. But I don't think that that should be our default position. I don't think that we should say, well, you know, this is the fourth time that I've dealt with this student this week and I've missed two meetings because this person continues to do certain things or exhibit certain behaviors. And so, you know what I'd like to do? I'd like to wash my hands of this because it would free up time. Well, that's true, but I don't know that that's best for a child and it's very expensive on top of it. And so I think it's a mindset where we work and we do what is necessary and we do the best by our kids and we try our hardest and we put in programs and we understand that there's going to be es and flows and ups and downs but you do what you have to do and just you know what sometimes it works and sometimes you turn a child around and you don't have to place them out of district. And again I will tell you this while these places do a fine job I can't look a parent in the eye and say I think your child's going to get a better education there than they are here. I do believe that Centennial is our best bet for our best education and so I don't want to buy spots in advance because I don't want to have that self-fulfilling prophecy of well they're there so we may as well use them. >> What's the value of the discount? >> Probably 10 15%. Like if we bundled them maybe they take 10% off. I I don't I I don't I'd have to look into that. >> What would happen if you find out on August 15th you have another student? Um, does that mean to what point do you pre buy versus you get somebody towards the beginning of the school year? >> Um, are you better off holding back on some >> um and not buying as many? And if you have to pay the additional 10,000, you at least know >> might not be any spaces. >> Well, that's the other question. Is there do they run out of room? >> Not not typically. It's very rare that we would have a placement issue and we couldn't find an appropriate setting. Um, but again, it's a mindset of not just saying, "Well, let's get the discount." Because even if you buy 30 at a 10% discount and you place 15, you've left money on the table. But even if you don't take the discount and you place 12 students, it still wouldn't equal the 30 with the discount rate. And so, again, it's just looking at that. I mean, even looking at the the IU slots this year, we are 19 over contract. Last year, we were 18. We're still going to be leaving money on the table. >> Yeah. >> And you know, fortunately, you know, the number seems to be tracking down. Um, but still significant amount of money. >> Yes. >> And the, you know, in the IU as, as uh Dr. Hopkins shared, right, the the midyear reconciliation. There's certainly a reconciliation that the money does come back to the district, right? It's contracted in the budget, but it comes back uh within the IU for seats that are not used. >> Okay. So, that money does come back comes back. >> Yeah. Hopefully at the end of the year, we'll see another 1.2 come in. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Any other questions? So one question same question I had last year. I'm sure the district does things largely because we're required to do them. However, there are probably things that the district does that we are not required to do. Albeit they may be nice things to do. some of those in the area of social work and things of that nature that the district seems to entertain with families and other things. Is it possible to get a list? Are there things uh we do as a school district that we are not required to do? And they would be the things that we might be able to concentrate on to see if there's any possibility to reduce them, discontinue them, or contract do something different than we're currently doing. I don't want to mess with things we have to do because we got to do them. There are other things I'm sure, but I don't have a list of them. that we do not have to do, but we do them because we're nice people and great school district. >> Is that possible? >> Well, I mean I I think it's I think it's more probable by taking a zerobased budgeting approach where you look at needs over wants, but um I know what you're saying. It it's it's it's hard for me to answer that on face value. Is it possible? Of course. Um we should always be looking at what we need versus what we'd like nice to haves versus need to haves. And I think when you start with a with a philosophy of look, we are going to buy what we know we need. If we don't need it, we're not going to purchase it. >> The needs could be broken down into required needs and perceived needs. >> They're mandated >> or absolutely they're they're mandated things. >> There's two kinds of >> There are >> there's things you absolutely must do or else we all go to jail. or there's other things that we do cuz they're probably good things to do and then there's things we do because they're kind of nice things. >> I mean, not that we would ever do it, but transportation of students, >> you know, that is something that you either do or you don't do. Not that we would ever cut that out. Do not let anybody say we're not cutting out transportation. Don't don't even go down that road, but that is not a mandated service unless you do it. So, I understand what you're saying. So there could be things that you know in gym class we're mandated to offer these three categories but instead we offer these nine categories. >> Would that be closer to what you're >> I mean I don't know the area where families are going to look at >> where they're living and how many kids they are the county does some of that >> we do it because we have to do it or you do it because we we want to do it. I do know that the trends across the country in the state are for more social workers and mental health professionals and those types of things. So that's not necessarily you know I know you're again like busing that's something you're just you're picking up on but yeah I mean if there's a list of the mandates versus I mean there are some times when the mandates there there are mandates that the state requires us to do that cost us far more than the money the state reimbures us for them. Okay. And if you look at federal programs, the amount of federal funding that we get versus what it costs us to implement those federal funds, >> we lose money on it. >> Yeah. >> As we've shared before, special education costs, right? IDEIDA hasn't moved at all, right? >> In in in the years since it was adopted in the in the 70s, right, that those costs, those created mandates uh that are truly unfunded at this time. >> Keystone exams and, you know, placements, you know, channel my inner Mr. Miller, it's if we're not getting more than inflation, we're losing money. >> And we've been not getting more than inflation for a decade. >> Okay. >> As a side note, Mr. Greenwood, I don't know if you would know this. I can ask Dr. Hopkins about um 504s. I don't know how many children have 504s in the district, which I understand comes out of our own budgeting. Like we don't get reimbursed for that. So maybe we can maybe just touch base um about how many kids have 504s in the district. >> Sure. Yeah. I mean I I think we're somewhere in the ballpark of 22% of our students >> 504s >> or or special needs >> special needs >> we have 22 we have 22 23% of our students are are special education >> but I know like with if I'm wrong just correct me I think for when we um give children a 504 plan that comes out of our own budget like we are not getting money from the state um dollars for that that's something we that's a nicity like Charlie's talking about but >> it's not a nicity that falls under ADA. >> It does. Okay. >> That actually falls under the American >> Thank you. Okay. >> You don't have to. >> It Yeah, that falls under requirement. >> I didn't realize that. Okay. >> Sorry, I Sorry. >> I'm new here, too. >> That that falls under ADA. >> It does. Disability. But we do get some monies for that if we have children that we're servicing through a 504. >> The difference between a 504 and an IEP is specially designed instruction. >> So you don't have special educators involved. >> That's right. >> Um you cannot provide direct services in terms of related services. And so to clarify that, >> yeah, >> you can have you can be a child with a 504 plan and you can have in your 504 plan >> a consult like that that an OT is consulting >> with a team of faculty. That's not a direct service. >> Once it's a direct service, >> it has to be an well, right? then that falls under an one of the 13 disability categories which becomes an IEP. If it's at that level, it's a disability category. >> Um the other thing to keep there's there's a lot of nuances to 504 plans. So what I what I would say >> is that 504 plans don't carry the same costs as an IEP. >> That makes sense. Yeah. >> There's no extended school year. All of that that that falls under IDA doesn't come under ADA. Okay. >> So if how regularly does the students IEP or 504 get renewed? Is it twice a year? Is it once a year? >> A 504 plan is renewed annually. An IEP is renewed annually. Of course, at any given moment, a meeting can be requested, >> but we only generally meet once a year with the parents and the >> you have to >> you have to >> and I think reevaluations are every two years unless there's right >> they're every they're triannual. They're every 3 years unless the student is identified as a student >> who >> qualifies for the PASSA and in which case they are evaluated every two years. Yep. Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. All right. Moving right along. Um the the final section is financial strategies. Um and I'd first like to to recognize Mrs. Kger uh uh for the insight she has shared over the past couple of months uh and the time that she has committed uh to this endeavor. It has been really fantastic and I think I am personally greatly appreciate your your insights shared um looking at these options as as we move forward starting with zerobased budgeting coming up you know starting at at zero and building on top of that I think Mr. Mr. Martin will will uncover potential areas uh to your earlier question uh leveraging grants and other potential sources of revenue uh whether that's through advertising through use of the planetarium um things like vendor analysis that uh Mrs. Kger has been uh working on definitely right understanding where those costs are, how they are related across the district and what opportunities uh we can put in place uh for savings uh for that. Um and lastly, you know, our continued work to reduce overtime. I think we've significantly uh reduced overtime within transportation now that we are working with sort of a full staff, which has been really wonderful. It's really changed the dynamic uh of the transportation center uh where bus drivers aren't working sort of multiple loops. Uh we are getting additional I think as we've reported on the weekly report we've added two runs to that which has reduced the travel time for two bus loads of students uh and really the pickup times between the private schools and our schools. So it's really been a a positive outcome. And that my friends uh brings us uh to to the final the final chapter uh um and our final step in determining our path forward uh as we look to to you uh to provide direction uh in determining that path forward. Uh so we have the next steps uh that include areas of consensus, things that we will collectively agree on. Um any questions that remain, we can maybe get those out of the way first and then the discussion on on future meetings. I'm sure that uh we'll continue the dialogue and uh continue the process. >> Yes, >> I have a question with regard to grants. is are are I don't know how it necessarily works but I mean I I'm a user of foundation directory for grants >> and the ones for education are very very specific. Yep. >> Um, does that mean we have staff here who specifically look and know I'm looking for a grant specifically to a kind of special ed? You know, how how can we leverage what's in foundation directory? >> I think we've got to we've got to further explore that. I know you shared that with us last month. Uh I think we got to try to get uh our heads around that and uh and a plan uh around that as well. Right. We've reached out looking at at potentially finding uh an outsource provider who can do grant writing uh which may be another tool that if we can uh find someone who can you know we can move grants to they could quickly assess them uh may may be a part of that program as well. I mean, I did a search specifically on Pennsylvania and on Bucks County and there are considerable number of grants and a lot of them are renewable annually. >> Um, so I just think it's it's potentially an opportunity to get revenue coming in. >> Sure. It's a good resource. >> What is the foundation directory? Can you just explain? >> It is filled with corporations. >> Okay. um uh private institutions, trusts, family, uh foundations, like I'm working with one called the Pinkis uh family foundation, and they provide music education, which is what our nonprofit is about, which is how I got to use it. It does cost money to belong, but Doylestown Library has a has free access into that. And uh I got the lead from somebody who was doing grants for Brooklyn College in New York City. And she said it is the the place to find them. >> And they they'll award grants. You just >> you have to file the forms and and a lot of them are renewable year after year. >> Okay. >> So we we don't have anybody any team member assigned to finding these grants. >> We do not not by themselves. We do not right. We have handled grants internally over the years. Right. the and we've really looking at the larger grants PCCD grants and and the like. Uh but I think as we look uh towards that using something like the foundation directory and see what can be uh brought out of that uh would be a would be a good resource. >> We don't have that person doesn't exist today. >> Mrs. Cross, I wonder if other districts have grand writers, you know, on staff. We could always ask ask around. >> Poach them. >> We could poach them. We could do that, too. Well, we could ask around. >> In the past, the IU used to provide the service. >> Yes. >> Yeah. You can use your um legislature because we just got the grant from Brian Monroe's office and so they have somebody obviously who knows how to do it. So what um you know >> they're they're a little different. >> Yeah. But they they have somebody who applies for grants or knows how to write for grants. Um could be and it can you know teach somebody how to do it a um there you go. There's not a volunteer position for you. >> Okay. I'll volunteer. Yeah. >> But it's true. I mean having you know when you work with nonprofits having someone who's in that position to really focus on grant writing and specific opportunities and really dig into it goes a long way and really can move things forward. Yep. >> In a more efficient way. Um, and they can, you know, plan ahead for those kind of seasons, right? Do a great job with those. They have that time to focus specifically on making sure they're not missing out on those opportunities. >> You can learn from that as well. Oh, >> yeah. And see how the process goes. >> Yep. >> Any other questions? Any areas of consensus as we looked at uh at those slides? I have another question with regard to our debt. >> Yes. >> What rate is our debt financed at? >> Uh it is varying. The rates that we have vary. Um and there's certain rules. I mean as we have refinanced them, we continue to bring down the debt uh and our our debt service payments. We continue to reduce that. I don't know the off the top of my head the rate on that, but we have uh I think we have six different uh debt uh debt packages that are out there at varying rates. Um there's times that allow us to refinance and re-evaluate those uh which we stay in tune with in order to maximize those opportunities. Right? So we it's not it's not a free will, right? We we can only do it uh after such a period of time. >> And we have one coming up in the next month or two. >> Next month. >> Yeah. That we've already pre-approved doing. We've done three of the six. This will be the third of the six. >> Correct. >> And I think actually too our debt service was 9 and a half% and now we have it down to seven and some change. >> I think the I think the initial ones I think there are have been significantly reduced. Right. This last one is is fairly small >> uh in terms of uh the amount. >> Yeah. The last I mean the last one we did I mean we got two and some change was our >> we've had savings that exceeded $4 million. >> We went from five and a quarter or whatever it was down to two and I think 78 or 58 and was a significant savings. Um yeah, it's you're limited to what you can and cannot do obviously, but we are continuing to both pay off the debt and then as we refinance it as well, the percentage of our budget for our debt service is continuing to drop. Keeping in mind though that we need to start I mean the schools now are 15 years old. We're pushing 15 years old. The maintenance on them is starting to start to go up. So we're going to have to start looking at how we're going to be able to maintain them. I mean, our maintenance staffs do an incredible job to begin with, uh, but it's just more pressure on them. >> I have another question about the um, uh, I I went through the administrator's compensation plan and my question is about, uh, assistant principles. >> I was very surprised to hear that in the high school level, there's one for every grade. And I keep going back to when I was in school and I don't even think we in high school we had one assistant principal. So I was just surprised and I'm looking for ways to see if there's opportunity and I'd love to understand why that's the case. >> Well, I could I can give a little bit of insight into that. And I will tell you in a large high school like tenant where you have um the the size of students and you have um it it essentially provides grade level oversight for 500 students. And so if you have a class of 500 in nth grade or or close to 500 um to be able to handle that not only the student activities, the discipline, the academic planning and all of that, it would be virtually impossible for one or two administrators to appropriately provide oversight in a place like with the size of that. Um it would have uh just the day-to-day management. Um, if you look at some of our discipline data and the involvement and our administrators, you may not want to hear me say this, but I could I could make a qualitative and quantitative case that they may be short. As much as it doesn't seem that way, it's a much larger conversation. And I'm happy to talk to you about it at length. Um, and just why or even walk the building and talk a little, but it there there there are some very significant needs and challenges and they do an excellent job. But it is um really for a ratio and oversight where it's about one administrator for every 450 students, which definitely keeps us, which is why tenant runs the way it does. Um, I I firmly believe so. Always been an advocate for that. Um, and but I'm happy to have >> additional conversations. >> When I graduated, there were,00 kids in my graduating class. We're talking about a long time ago. And there was never >> No. And it's >> that kind of relationship. So, I'm just surprised. >> It it definitely has. And there there are models, there are health system models, there are different things, but also too, they also take on a lot more responsibilities. I mean, they they take oversight of athletics, they'll take oversight of student activities, they'll take oversight of scheduling and sectioning, they'll take oversight of community outreach. There there's a lot of different buckets that they that they work within as well. Not only that, some of the needs um that have arisen just with technological advances, social media, levels of discipline have have exponentially increased. Some of the challenges, some of the mental health things that we deal with. And so I will tell you they are on the go from the time they step foot to the time they they walk out. They are on the go. >> Are there guidance counselors here also? >> Absolutely. Every absolutely absolutely who are also extremely busy and extremely necessary. >> On a side note Karen I would Mrs. career. I would say 11th grade students, there's a big um responsibility of those principles and also the counselors um to prepare kids for the you know transition to out of being out of high school. So there's a lot of college planning. There's a lot of events around you trades and things like that. So I mean I do I do believe from my own experience they do really don't stop from the time they get into the building until the day is over. Okay. Any other thoughts, any other areas uh based on on the what we had shared? So I sort of just jump back to sort of the refresh the the conversation the three categories are there any other feelings thoughts of things that we should be more focused on less focused on areas that we collectively agree on? I mean just as overall I I mean obviously given that the the outlook is what it is I don't think we're in a position to not be open to big ideas. So I didn't see anything tonight that I didn't think was worth exploring further. Um and as you know as as we as Dr. required or talked about earlier. I I change and the idea of change is obviously scary to people, right? And looking at a budget as it's currently projected, I don't think we have the luxury, like I said, of ignoring potential solutions to help the district solve, you know, avoid a catastrophe financially going forward. So, that being said, none of the things that we talked about tonight would be sprung on anybody overnight. um everything here would be approached with a lot of thought and care and communication. So I I didn't see anything that stood out to me as particularly scary and we should avoid it. But I mean I'm going to be honest with you of the 2 4 6 8 9 10 11 items up there. We have discussed 10 of them every year for the last two years and there has been no movement on them. So none of these are going to come as a surprise to the community. No, >> we have been discussing this now for 2 years and there's been no movement on it. >> What about Well, the We were discuss discussing previously uh redistricting so we could um move some teachers from one of our >> realigning. Yep. >> The thoughts on that? I mean, are we able to come up with a cost savings with that? I mean, because I know we have more students in one of our elementary schools than another. >> That that would that would involve some some some longer term study. Um, that that's a that's a a large large undertaking for for a board. Um, there comes a time when those conversations and and studies have to be looked at. Absolutely. >> We have that study, didn't we? There was a there was a study >> whether or not the numbers are aligning like the study showed. Yeah, there was a study done in the past and some projections and so one of the things that we do is we constantly monitor our enrollment. We look at some of the the programming that we have and where we can use that if it's more regional, if it's more building specific. Um that is that is a much larger question that we didn't bring in before the board uh because um that's a hot button topic for sure um with redistricting. But it's something that I think moving forward if the enrollment trends and data suggest it that we definitely are going to have to broach and that's a conversation that would bring in front of you. >> Well, it's a good topic because it doesn't affect the services that we provide. We wouldn't we that wouldn't change anything for what we are able to provide to our students and families, but it would be a cost savings if we don't have to hire more teachers into a building that when we have the teachers in another building, we could just slide right over. Right. >> And that correct? And that's part of that that that careful analysis of our staffing and sectioning because if there's a need where we can redistribute staff to another building to address the emerging needs. Do we have any progress on the construction program at the old Bethana site in Southampton? Is that was a 55 plus community? >> I do not. >> With 100 or so units going in that would not add to our student base, but would add to our tax base. >> Have you seen the the site? >> No, I have not. That's why I'm asking. I It's I've not been by it recently. >> It's pretty empty right now. They're it's all raised everything and they're they're you know they're moving all the dirt around and stuff but I don't think they you're they haven't started building. >> So we're probably a full year away from >> Well, it depends how fast they go, right? But didn't um What's that um across from the golf place? >> Isn't that sold to >> They were supposed to put homes or something. It's a um >> there was a there's one on Bristol Road that's going in >> people in um Street Road, right? Still left from um Dairy Queen, wasn't that it was a farm or something? >> Oh, I don't know. >> Isn't that sold there? >> I think that's on old. >> Okay. Hopefully. >> How large of a piece of property is that? >> Is that substantial? >> It's huge. >> Huge. >> Yeah. I mean, we are we are to the point where we are almost grown out in our municipalities. >> So, >> okay. I think that's the when we had that survey done, I think that's what we heard, right? Pocket communities at best. >> Thank you. >> So, Mr. Greenwood, um question when looking at programs and services out of district placements. Um I know Dr. Luga when you first started, you had mentioned about recouping some costs from children that were serviced in our district that lived in other districts and then the out of district placements. Is and the board can answer this. I haven't been on the board that long. Is this the first time we're looking at that a little bit more or have we always looked at that as being an option? >> I've been asking about that since I've been back on the board >> about >> about that that specific funding and whether or not we have been recuperating that funding or not >> and now we are we're going after it. >> But I was going to ask you and was has the answer been >> that stalled and right >> and then brought up again and then stalled because more there was more activity and other things going on. >> Okay. what you asked for because there are kids from here who are in other districts who may not have been too vigilant on going us. So there is no minus to it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But you know we do have several organizations within our boundaries that we do service students for as well. >> Right. But I'm just asking if this conversation is >> first time we're numbering on this conversation. >> Six last year when we looked at it right the first uh walk through I think we had 26 students and those students are rarely here for a year right there. There are students that are in transition. So we are picking off you know 14 days 15 days someone comes back uh they could be here they could leave they could come back >> uh so there's it's a very intensive effort uh to follow that trail right >> days uh uh for use but something that we are uh we are uh working very hard to maintain and and keep up with. >> Yep. Yep. Thank you. Um I I know that you had on the list doing RFPs for specific vendors. Um thanks to you, you did gave me that report and right now um in that $26 million we are using $492 vendors. Um, and there are specific lines that I really think we need to think about leveraging our buying power >> and coming up with a preferred list of vendors to to see what we can do. As an example, for general supplies, we have 239 vendors. Um, on repairs and maintenance, we've got 62 vendors. It would seem to me that if we sat down and understood um the services we need, we should be able to consolidate them and leverage our buying power and probably get better pricing. >> Yep. That's a terrific idea. The other thing I think we should look at, you and I had a conversation a couple of months ago about how much money is uh budgeted by the individual schools. Um and you said it was quite low. >> Um well, I will tell you that tenant in the first 6 months has spent $555,000. Um, >> so it seems to me that >> that that that could that that doesn't necessarily mean it it originates from William Tennant, right? It could be for William Tennant coming out of uh central offices, right? So we we allocate those expenses too. So it's not necessarily William Tennant's budget that is generating that number, right? But rather services that are for William Tennant, right? uh as part of our reporting, we need to push as many of those expenses down through schools uh and to be in compliance with our FE reporting. Uh so there is a lot of that that goes on. So when I provide that number to you, it's identifying where that expense is going to. It's not necessarily >> that it's a part of their budget. >> Okay. >> Okay. And the other thing is with regard to the uh intermediate unit um and then middle bucks institute is there any opportunity in terms of looking at the allocation and seeing whether we think it's fair? >> Well they they look at I know for MBIT so uh the middle box I think is as Dr. Hopkins shared right it's it's a it's a purchase what you need option right it is allocart we need these services um what what can you provide MBIT is is really based on the student right students enrolled and that is looked at every single year >> just that they operate as a profit center so >> um they and not you know I think they they they operate made based on um on the on the tuitions to schools, right? Their budget is is there is no uh there's a very slow surplus at a school like MBIT, right? They were just beginning to evaluate that, right? So, you know, for instance, um they had they had significant repairs that were required for their school uh as well as upkeep to some of their labs, right? they didn't have the money to do that. They come out and and reach to the schools. They weren't able to create a surplus of funds. So, uh I think it is a little different than than perhaps the IU model. Neither of them, you know, are taxed directly and all both of them are funded by the sending schools andor the county. >> So, um I say I was at a meeting last Friday at NBIT. um they really do not have a fund balance. They pretty much go dollar to dollar. The four sending districts, x number of students, you kind of divide it up and and that's the expenditures. Their business office has two people in it. Their um >> what is their average uh cost per student? Like, you know, >> I don't know off the top of my head. I >> was like $22,000. Is it a lot more expensive to send a student? No, I think it's actually less. I think it's actually less. Keeping in mind, too, though, that they're going half day, so there's two sessions in there. There is legislation that was introduced last week to essentially make, you know, and this is really watering it down, but essentially to make the um career and technical institutes basically many school districts with taxing authority. >> Um I mean, and that's really very simple. Yeah, that that's I only read the front page of the you know the bill. I have not read the whole bill yet. Uh but it is looking at a significant change in it. Keeping in mind that um so for like MBIT they have 32 welding spots. They could probably easily fill 60. They don't have the space for it and they don't have the money to expand. where if they wanted to build a new wing and the wing costs $10 million to build, there are four sending districts. Each sending district would have to cough up pay for their percentage of that build. And I don't really think there's a tolerance for the sending districts to be able to do that. When you look at central bucks who is looking at a almost 8% increase in their budget um or a tax increase council rock is doing similar heper or um no obsbury I'm not sure about so um you know the tolerance from the sending school districts I really don't think is there to do that despite the fact that the need is there I mean it's to talk to their executive director and the stuff that they are accomplishing with what they have I mean we're talking national and international recog recognition for for this program at Middle Bucks. Um certainly there could be some economies of scale. We have three career and technical, you know, trade schools in Bucks County. Could there be some, you know, but that would have to be a completely different conversation for them? That's not one for us to to have. >> All right. >> Would you like a motion to adjurnn? >> Didn't finish. I haven't been back to my house since 7 this morning. >> We don't have any We don't have any community comments. Thank you, Mr. Greenwood. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Greenwood. Thank you. Any more board discussion? I just have one thing since you were talking about case loads or whatever. I just want to put a plug out for school nurses. Their case load is state law. One nurse per 1500 students. So um I thank um the Centennial for having several nurses in schools but one nurse and 1500 students. So >> any more communications? >> Uh they're doing everything. Yes. >> Yep. Thank you. >> No more communications. Can I get a motion to adjourn? >> We got them. Have a good evening.