Calling the meeting to order. And we'll do the Pledge of Allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay, before um I ask for a motion to adopt the agenda, a suggestion has been made to move um number six to in front of between four and five. Um it's going to be a shorter hearing, we think, and we just don't need to have those people for the signage go through the the longer discussion. Unless you want to stay. So, does um >> I'll make a motion to move the signage plan review uh for AMBA Holding LLC to um agenda number five, basically, and uh bump everything down. >> Thank you. And is there a second? >> I second that. >> Great. And any discussion? If not, all in favor say I. >> I. >> I. And opposed? That motion passes. And now, can we have a motion to adopt the agenda? >> Motion to adopt the amended agenda. >> And a second? >> Second. >> Great. And any discussion? If not, all in favor say I. I. And opposed? That motion passes. Okay. And next we'll have the council update, please. >> Good evening, Planning Commission members and audience. I'm Suzanne Erkel, the City Council Liaison. Um this has been kind of a slow month, but I do have a few things. Uh we did change we are going to be changing our notary public uh our notary um what's the word? Approval uh policy here in the near future because um apparently some of our staff are not authorized to notarize certain things. >> [clears throat] >> Excuse me, that they have been notarizing. Um our Nexus program, they have their license had been temporarily uh re- re-established for six kids. And I did a little research after the meeting and it may or may not be a permanent thing because these kids are in a specialized program, so I'm understanding that after this program it may not get reinstated, so we're we have to wait and see on that. We did [clears throat] um we are going to have a policy change on the subdivisions of properties to uh right now it says one time subdivision for the lifetime of the property, so now it's going to change to maybe every 10 years. Um that policy is going to be coming before us. Um I talked about there's also uh a change in our voting. Uh we modified it to be a 18-day early voting instead of I don't know if it was 45 days or something like that. And uh we did approve our election judges for this coming election cycle. Uh we approved the subdivision of the temple on 217th. Uh the city is selling ads to businesses for our newsletter, so any businesses out there who are interested in advertising, it's a probably a great deal compared to other advertising. We hired two more firefighters temp- there's possible providing one of them does move into the city. Uh our fire department did get a center point grant, which is a great thing. Grants are always amazing. Um we had a some dangerous dog hearings and the owners of the latest one have come into full compliance, I understand. So, um I know a lot of residents have been very interested in that case. And our uh Blaine Anoka Blaine Airport is having a their EAA, which is the Young Eagles, uh kids who learn about airplanes and stuff, is having their pancake breakfast on July 20 the Saturday. So, if anybody's free Saturday morning, go out and support that fundraiser. And we are looking for volunteers for a Discovery Aviation Days. I got to put a plug in for that because uh we're trying to get this big event for next for June of 2027, and we can't do it with six people. We need like 106. So, any questions? >> So, with the um policy on the subdivision, I mean, you're going to have a public hearing here then? >> I presume, yes. >> Okay. >> All policy changes need public hearing. So, it will it will be happening in then probably possibly next month. Any other questions? All right. Thank you. >> Thank you, Susan. >> Thanks. >> All righty, the next item is the approval of minutes. Does anyone have any corrections? None? >> No. >> Motion to approve. >> Well, Eric, I I I do have a question then about uh line 143 and 146 where the name of the person that was presenting did was that not include was not included because his name wasn't on the roster or I mean he So it's on page 405. It says Dustin stated that they are trying to create >> I'd have to find that. We can go back and watch the tape. I'm sure we would have >> Yeah, I mean I think that it would have even been with the application or >> Yeah. Um Dustin Now I know who you're saying. Yeah, Dustin I know Kiam Kiamsky. >> I'll I'll recognize last name Kiam Kiamsky. So um we'll make sure that that's edited in. >> Okay, thank you. >> Yep. >> Is there a motion to approve the minutes? >> Motion to approve the minutes. >> Thank you. And any seconds? >> Second it. >> Any discussion? Now all in favor say I. I. >> I. >> Any opposed? So that motion passes. And the next thing we're going to do is go to this signage plan review by um Amba Holdings. >> Uh thank you Madam Chair and uh planning commission members for um allowing the the shuffle of the agenda. Um I just speculate in this one it might be a little shorter than the other one. That one could be 3 or 4 hours. >> [laughter] >> Uh maybe not. Okay, so um Amba Holdings they are developing um the the the multi-tenant building um along uh 65 um in a B3 zoning district um and uh we followed the they have the roof going up. You can see it going up now. This is Ulysses Street here. Um, and as part of the city's zoning code for signage, when there's a multi-tenant building, uh, the ordinance requires that the, um, owner or applicant uh, present a unified site plan signage plan for your approval. Um, so they worked with the a signage firm. Um, with, uh, they're here, but I I cut this this out. Um, anyway, I'll skip the name. Um, uh, so from a design standpoint, they have wall signs, and there's four of them. Um, over there each of the end key entrances. Um, this shows three and then the fourth, um, there. Um, the face you're looking at there faces, uh, I believe that faces west. And then these face south. So, um, you have those signs, and then they're also looking for a a monument sign. Our ordinance is a little interesting. Um, the the city ordinance has a definition of a of a freestanding sign and a definition of a monument sign. Um, but the ordinance talks about a freestanding monument sign. So, you kind of got to merge a little bit of that together. Um, and maybe that's one more edit the city will want to at least talk about. Um, but in So, that's in a sense what you have an option to from a from a from a money freestanding monument sign versus a pylon sign that just doesn't have any cladding on its pole. Um, so I mean these are essentially the the long and the short of the of the of the concepts. So, I want to go back up to um the size and number of signs of B3 zoning code allows up to 4 square feet of signage per frontage foot of building. There's approximately 210 linear feet of frontage um on that building. We take uh the west face of both sides um cuz that abuts the primary road um Ulysses and that's approximately 210 linear feet. Um times four um that nets you to uh 840 total square feet. And the reason for that is it it it scales the signage with the size of the building. So, you don't have it it's a rough correlation. Um uh also um uh no one sign can be over 100 square feet. Um uh I'm sorry. Uh Individual wall signs up to 200 feet in area and they're not even getting close to that. So, what we know is on their wall signs one through four that totals 84 square feet. And on the freestanding sign, in this case option two, it's approximately 83 square feet. Um so, the maximum size they're really proposing is is um about 170 total square feet. So, well below the 840 they they might be permitted. Um so, it's it's not certainly not undersigned, but they might have some room to go in the future. One thing to note is that they may have an additional sign um because they are so close to 65. Um so, if they wanted to come back for an additional freestanding monument sign, and could come back. They would still have to comply with size limitation. Um and they certainly could do that. So, again, these this map shows the approximate location. Um I believe I had my directions wrong. Uh the the three signs face south and the one sign faces west. And the freestanding sign is near 65, um but it does meet the 5-ft setback uh required as that is their rear their rear lot. Um So, um back to what you folks are tasked to consider is we don't bring to you the particular tenants in the signage cuz they either don't know and they'll have to work out those panels with them. Um If the signs they're proposing are I can't imagine, but out of character out of case, we'd bring that back to you, but I've never I've never seen that, so I'm really not worried about it. Um One note I sent to you folks that that's represented here is the is a change from what was originally in your packet in yellow. Um The limitation of height on this on the wall signs are limited to 24 ft in height. They cannot be taller than the lowest point of the of the of the roof. Okay, so what does that mean? Um In this case, they can't they have they really have three roofs. Um the tall roof, which is uh 28 ft. And I'm not going to count the dormers, but then they have a a lower gabled roof. And that's more of the that's more of the primary element of the of the structure itself, and that's probably around 24 ft. Um They're at 12 ft at the eve here. So, until we really know exactly where it needs to go, they're probably well within the realm of what they're seeking. Um, 28 ft is not the correct roof to use. It's the It's this point, and that's probably around 24 ft. So, if they had to come down a foot, or maybe they can go up a foot, who knows. We'll work with the applicant to on the final elevations, but this is the approximate scale. Um, And so, then back to my previous point about required cladding on a um on a on a sign base, so it creates a true freestanding monument sign. It In a lot of ways, a monument sign is, you know, they're kind of low, you know, um, they're they're typically less than 10 ft tall, but the height is equivalent to the width. Um, whereas a freestanding sign is, you know, probably most of the signs that we see in our world, um, like the signs out there, for example, the Holiday gas station that's that's there, or the QuickTrip sign that's out there. Um, so, this I think meets the spirit of what that language is. So, option two, I think, should be added to the to the resolution. So, with that, you don't have to have a public hearing on this. This is just your input and your direction. Um, and staff would recommend approval just with that added issue. >> All right. Thank you. >> [clears throat] >> Um, can we have a public hearing if uh owners want to say anything? >> absolutely you can do whatever you desire. Yeah. >> Okay, thank you. I'm just going to open up the public hearing for the representatives from AMA Holdings to come on up if if they want to say anything. So, would you like to come up or you're good? Yeah, you're good. >> The check will be in the mail. >> Okay, yeah, if you could come up to the the podium, please. And just state your name. >> Don Quigley. >> Okay. >> And I own the Village Bank. And so, he's the neighbor. And so, I think he should get the same treatment when we built our bank. You need to have signage. As you mentioned, two gas stations. It's very important that businesses are known. So. That's all I want to say. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And it was Vision Sign Company. I apologize for too many pieces of paper. So. >> All right, does anyone else want to speak to this issue? If not, >> [clears throat] >> closing the public hearing. And do any of you ladies or gentlemen want to say anything? >> I think it'll look fine. >> Me, too. >> Sergeant. >> Um why are we why were we presented these two options? >> Well, that's up to the applicant. Um I think they always might be they're getting quotes for I mean, maybe they're here. Eric is here. He could certainly speak to that. >> Yeah, these are just options. >> Just I just was noting that option one looks like it would read better from a distance. So, it's my only comment. But again, it's up to the applicant. >> And then >> [clears throat] >> um on staff, who does this go through then kind of make the final recommendation or approval? >> Um if this is the final clearance point to to Commissioner Terry's yeah I might and maybe they want to think about some redesign that's up to them but they would have to I mean maybe they could take the base of one and move it to the other you know like option three I mean the city didn't say to them show us three different options this is just what they presented. I think signage is always a signage rules always vary quite a bit from city to city. But they could not do the one on the left they could not do option one. The option one and option two is more is compliant with your rules for freestanding monument signs. But maybe they mix the two and just create the base on one so. But that's up to that would be up to them. Any other questions concerns? If not you're okay Christina? Are there any motions? >> I'll make a motion to approve this number on it. The signage plan for AMBA Holdings with conditions listed. >> Um Commissioner Jurgensen I did put it into a resolution 2608 if you're comfortable with that. >> Yes. >> Okay. Is there a second to that motion? >> Second. >> I second that and that does include with the final height correct? >> Yes. >> I second. >> All righty. Any further discussion? If not, all in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? So, that motion passes. So, that's a recommendation for um approving the comprehensive sign plan for Amber Holdings. And will that go to the city council then? >> Um uh Madam Chair, no. They um if they came in tomorrow for a building permit for the signs, I could grant the permit. It It allows the city planning commission to be the the clearing house. >> Great. >> So. >> Perfect. >> So. [clears throat] >> Fantastic. >> Okay. The next item is a consideration of a concept plan. Mr. Johnson. >> Yes. Let's see. >> Thank you, guys. >> Thank you. Thank you. Um Okay. Uh um Madam Chair and and commissioners, thank you for again for uh taking the time to review these things from the applicant. So, I probably got a lot to go through and I I'm probably going to jump around a little bit. Um with some of the drawings and some of the maps, but um if I'm moving too fast or you want me to go back, you know, certainly say so. Cuz I probably need to do that, too. So, there's some things that we got to got to get through. It's a little unique of a project, so it's not quite so straightforward. It's a good project, but it's just not quite so simple. Um anyway, final approach to development concept plan review. Um it's a multi-tenant light industrial commercial proposal that I'll see before you tonight. So, the property, I'll show you here in a minute, is out lot B of a former of a current PUD known as the Sauter District. The land is guided mixed use and that's in your comp plan. The current zoning is highway commercial B3. It certainly lies west of 65 and south of 185th Street. So, um this is the the site. It's kind of uh in the in the yellow shaded area. Um the the movie theater is is here. The Holiday gas station is is there. Um these are two apartment complexes. Um and most of the land to the north in this vicinity are is our industrial um sites. So, that kind of tells you the context of of where it is. Um briefly, the concept plat, I mean, that we're not at a planning stage. Again, this is all concept. Again, this is these are the two apartment complexes. And they're not asking for nor are we seeking to get, you know, blessing on this exact layout, rather um how this land might be envisioned. In this case, it's a three-phased development or three-part development with a structure to the part one on the east and then as time passes or as development ensues, um a development in the middle of the property and then one to the west. Much of the property is encumbered by a wetland. So, they're sticking to those areas that are um high ground or would not be impacted by that condition. I mentioned some phases. This is their phasing plan. Um certainly it could ebb and flow a little bit. Um and these aren't exact final designs, but the phase This is really what they're would start with. And that in that structure when you see it. Um The current zoning of the property Oh, I'm sorry. Come on, you. Don't play games with me. I don't want to jump ahead on you. It's all that good stuff. Current zoning of the property is is B3 Highway Commercial. And as we all kind of know and we move through our community, um uh that houses a number of um highway uh adjacent facility. Um the the Holiday gas station, the movie theater on the west side. But on the east side, you have a number of you have a There's a car dealership, there's a uh a restaurant, there's other miscellaneous retail sites on the east side of that road. There's a trailer sales, there's a There's a recycler uh on that east side. There's um So, it runs it's a it's kind of a broad use um for your B3 district. Interestingly, a a few I don't know when it occurred, but I believe it's in the very recent past, this property was rezoned to mixed use, um which then allowed a the residential element to be constructed here. I I I believe it's in in the 5-year time horizon or so. Um 140 uh apartments, I believe is the case. Um So, that's the that's the current zoning. This is the Again, I mentioned this is part of the Soder District plat. And um it right now serves and sits in an outlot status. And anytime something is proposed for development or platting at the end of the day it's going to be need to get from Outlot B to a platted stand. Platted similar to Lot 1 Block 1 or or Block 2 Lot 1 as in the plats that you all have seen in the past. Wetlands are delineated and the applicant is working towards other more detailed wetland delineations as this thing proceeds. Um okay. So, um what is a concept plan review? We've talked a little bit about this in the past, but it's always good for me to to go through it with everyone again. It helps me. Um but a concept plan is it's mandatory that subdividers prepare a concept plan depicting the subdivision proposal. On the basis of the concept plan, the city council shall informally advise the subdivider, the applicant, as probably as possible to the extent to which subdivision generally conforms to the design standards of the article and to other sections of the chapter. The concept plan doesn't convey any legal development rights. It's not a plat. It's not an approval. Um it's preliminary. Uh it guide It provides preliminary guidance. It's advisory. Um it helps identify planning and engineering issues. And at the end of the day it really helps everyone determine if a proposal warrants further consideration or essentially is it premature and really should be uh not pursued. I mean, it's that's the big picture here. So, um we talk about our responsibilities here at the planning commission. The planning commission, if you remember a couple months ago we did this. Planning commission is compelled to do a few things here tonight or maybe it's continued. Shall take public testimony at their public hearing. And evaluate the concept plan against the premature subdivision criteria. 66-16, the performance standards of the chapter, the performance standards of the zoning ordinance, um any other city requirements it may certainly choose. Um ultimately, the planning commission shall make findings and offer recommendation for either concept approval or denial. Planning commission may offer recommendation of approval with conditions necessary to satisfy regulations. So, in essence, is the proposal premature? And what is the mean at the concept stage? We'll talk about these things. Is the proposal consistent with the comp plan, zoning, and the MUSA? That's your sanitary service area. Does it represent a logical or contiguous extension of you of development? And ultimately, should it be approved or denied or maybe with conditions? So, that's kind of the stage we're setting here what you guys have to do. So, I'll touch base maybe the meat of this stuff and uh is what they want. Um and so, for phase one, we're talking about a 21,600 sq ft multi-tenant light industrial warehouse building with those potential users. Um office, contractor, warehouse, distribution, light industrial condominium, you know, service businesses, what have you. Um they did provide a uh a concept of what the building would look like. And as we may have talked in the past, as you drive through that industrial area, this building kind of sit is what is out there. Um there's not smoke stacks in your industrial area. Um there's not uh you know, junkyards and and other things like maybe we might maybe I might envision an industrial zone. That's certainly not the case. Um and in fact, in a lot of ways, something like this might be less impactful than a Holiday gas station if you live next to it. I mean, just in terms of the traffic or the lighting and the noise, you know, so just something to something to think about. But anyway, this is their this is their vision and absolutely the applicant should talk more about that, but this is the what they had submitted. This would be in that phase one. And again, this phase one is in this eastern zone um as a possibility. So, I talked a little bit about the area context. Um again, there's that multi-family residential. There's a planned senior housing unit. I believe that's 10 or 11 units. Um surrounded by commercial businesses, service businesses, contractor operations, a trucking-related business. Um but really they're looking to expand and their employment-oriented businesses. Um we'll talk more a little bit about that, but also public facilities there. There's a that council wastewater facility in that southwest corner that I that I mentioned. So, that whole area serves as a mixed commercial employment district rather than any kind of retail corridor. At least that's my take on it. So, this is a map of you've probably all driven out there, but I just tried to label them. Um their proposal is here. Um and the gray area is zoned industrial. The red is the B3. Um and so they they kind of fit in at least in a from a form standpoint versus the zoning standpoint, probably pretty well. Um I do I have not been in all of these facilities, but I think we get an idea of what they are. Um Anyway, thought that was interesting. Um So, the comprehensive plan uh guidance we have to look at is recall this property is guided for mixed use. And so, commercial and businesses development is appropriate along Highway 65. Light industrial uses may be appropriate in this mixed use when adjacent to existing industrial or other high-intensity businesses. Um mixed uses are intended to provide flexibility for commercial, industrial I'm sorry, commercial, residential, and employment-related development. And so, again, this is the future land use. It's zoned mixed use, so is the apartment complex. Um and this is stems from the current comprehensive plan. Uh again, these aren't zoning rules, these are guidance of of of land use. Um and then if we look at our specific language of our comp plan, and what is mixed use allowed to be used for, um we we we do note that may include medium-density residential, light industrial, and/or um I suppose public facilities when deemed appropriate. Um it's inside the MUSA, which this property is. Um and municipal water and sewer are required. That would be part of this expansion. Um and ultimately, typical uses state light industrial uses may be deemed appropriate when adjacent to existing industrial or other high-intensity businesses, or adjacent to planned light industrial or medium-density land uses. So, this is how the city defines mixed use in its comp plan. Um I'll skip the these other things you saw in your packet, but this is really what the crux of the of of what that is. Okay, I mentioned the MUS a little bit. In this case, it's located within the MUS A. And what that means is it is eligible for service to have utilities sanitary sewer extended to it essentially without Mac Council approval. It's anticipated for growth. I know it's a kind of a hard map to see. But you just have to have to trust me on that. It's in the MUS A. If you recall the Viking Meadows development from a couple months ago, that land was out of the MUS A. And in this case, it it lies within. Talk about utilities briefly. I I am not an engineer. I'm just taking the data from our from our GIS systems and we've been talking with our city engineer and our public works director. The utilities are are just to the north. All of these properties are served by city utilities. Water and sewer. My understanding is adequate capacity for them. That would have to be have to be verified by the applicant and their engineering firm. But it it's it's present and and logical to extend that to this site. One other comment that you might have caught in the in the packet was comments from our city engineer. Some of the will probably need to be some transportation upgrades as well as some water looping and and and the like, but he had mentioned this property's going to have to be served by some kind of road extension. Again, these are my really rough chicken scratch drawings. So this certainly is not going to be exactly where it is, but somehow there will need to be a road serviced here. City does talk about extending a road, Buchanan Street, further south. Um south of the of the trailer court facility. Um So, or maybe that's a dead end for the time being, but I just wanted to make sure you understood what that concept might represent. Um So, so is the proposal premature? I won't get into the merits of the the the goods or bads of it, um but is it premature? Um so, staff reviewed is it consistent with the comprehensive plan, growth policies, transportation facilities, utility availability, and drainage consideration. Um our staff conclusion, it does not appear to be premature. Again, it's in the MUSA, utilities are there. Development's contiguous to existing development. We don't anticipate any significant growth or staging concerns, um as a result of this development if shouldn't incite something else. Um and generally consistent with the comprehensive plan for that guided mixed-use. So, we we didn't believe it's a premature consideration. So, I talked a little bit about this, but is it I used this format last time. Short answer is is it consistent with the comp plan, zoning, and MUSA? And yes. Um I talked about that already. Um Does it concept represent a logical contiguous extension of development? I believe short answer is yes. It's all there. Um the street layout extends the established neighborhood pattern. Ulysses and Buchanan would have to be extended. I showed that. Um Ultimately, those lot sizes and those phasings that they proposed would have to make sure those are um meeting all of the tests for lot sizes. Um, but a cursory look at it from the city engineer believes that they should be be able to meet those satisfactory satisfactorily. Um, anyway. So, should the concept plan be approved or denied? Remember, you are recall are you folks are asked to required to make a finding and offer recommendation for the concept plan approval or denial. You may certainly offer that with conditions if necessary. Um, and your packet does have a a draft resolution. Um, I won't touch base on that right away because that's kind of the first piece of this conversation and maybe um, I briefly would like to get into the second piece of the conversation. Um, and that's that's the zoning question. So, there your B3 zoning district allows those uses, office, retail, restaurant, hotel, and there's lots of them. Um, also but certain items by conditional use permit including a place of worship, research facilities, what have you. Um, and again, here is your zoning map for B3. Um, but what some of the things they're proposing are not consistent with the B3 district and would generally associated with that light industrial district. Um, versus the B3, warehousing, distribution, industrial condominium, light manufacturing. Um, but we also know that's consistent with your mixed-use guidance. So, if you're generally comfortable with what they're proposing in their concept, question might be how should the city address these uses um, to facilitate what they might want to do to really enable all of their desires. Um I think there's three options. Um retain the existing B3 regulations. This would limit them to everything within the B3. I don't think they like that. Uh option two, uh there's probably 10 options, but these seem to be the most apparent. Um consider a limited B3 text amendment. Um that would allow certain low-impact employment-oriented uses. I see you, P. To ensure compatibility with surrounding development. By a narrow text amendment to preclude, you know, transfer stations or heavy industry or something. You could do that by a text amendment to your B3. So, for example, everything you could you could say we want anything that's allowed in the industrial area can be in the B3 area except for X, Y, and Z, but all of it has to be by conditionally use permit. So, they've got to come back to you and you have a chance to, you know, make sure that makes some sense. Or ultimately, a third option might be to uh rezone the property to light industrial and same as those other areas you saw uh uh to the north and west. Um I think our staff recommendation is, you know, in whole, um the proposal is not premature. It seems consi- appears consistent with the comp plan, compatible with the surrounding development. It certainly warrants further consideration versus it being rejected or not approved. Um but I think a narrow limited text amendment to your B3 might be the most targeted and best solution for this. Um we haven't written that. It's just That's not what we're trying to do tonight, but rather say is rezoning better? Should we just leave it alone and they have to just comply with that? Um, or might this text amendment be something to consider. Um, anyway. So, that's that's it. And so, the draft resolution in your packet, I'm almost done. Uh, uh, makes certain findings that mixed-use designation supports flexibility. The area contains mixed commercial and employment uses. It's generally consistent with your comp plan. Proposal is certainly not premature. And um, but some of their proposed uses are not accommodated within the B3 district. So, the resolution the recommendation is to approve the concept plan. Provide guidance um, uh, regarding future zoning considerations. Basically directing asking the council to direct staff to develop potential text amendment. Um, and then ultimately what what might those what amendments might be appropriate. Um, the staff resolution is based on our recommendation. Um, but as I always say, this is up to you folks. Um, and if you think it should be just left alone, uh, great. If you think it's uh, should be rezoned industrial, um, uh, that is another option. But, I think from a staff perspective, but a narrow text amendment to um, give them what they generally I think are looking for and speaking a lot at length with them, um, might be the best most narrow option when you start tinkering with your zoning code. Now, your B3 district, it's more than just this area in this community. So, whatever you approve in this B3 district also applies elsewhere. So, you want to be specific as best you can. Anyway, so I'll be quiet >> [laughter] >> That's a lot to absorb. >> And uh go from there. >> Well, that was going to be my question. So, if we do a text or not we do it, but >> [clears throat] >> recommend a text amendment that would affect all of the B3 >> Yes. >> in the future. >> Yes. >> Right. Could you explain um >> [clears throat] >> with the mixed-use it seems like it's broader. And so, why why can't we do that? >> So, the mixed-use, so you have two zoning um uh You're Let's see. Well, let's just see if I have that I saved that. Um You're You have a mixed-use zoning and you have a mixed-use guidance and they're different. Um the zoning pretty much tells you yeah, you can put a uh a grocery store in this district. Whereas, a comp plan tells you we want that area to be kind of retail-ish or we want that area to be industrial-ish. Those are the terms. But, the mixed-use um zoning code um Let's just pull that up. Um is is is broad. Let's see. So, it does it does not necessarily allow them to do, if I remember this right, um uh some of their industrial uses, um multi-tenant facilities within that with with within that mixed-use district. Um versus the B3 district with a potential conditional use permit. Also, um if the city has a desire to expand some kind of residential capacity in this neighborhood, then the mixed-use would be the better tool. Um maybe that current residential district shouldn't have been put there. Uh who knows? And we don't Those It was a decision made with a different set of facts. Um but if you want I guess if the city says, "Hey, we want that to area to grow residentially or foster that in some way," then the mixed-use would be the better mechanism. Because it states "The primary land uses within a mixed-use shall be office, retail, and residential." Whereas in your industrial or B3 really doesn't include that. >> Mhm. Thank you. >> No short answers in any of this stuff. I'm sorry. >> Okay. >> [clears throat] >> I think what we'll do first is open the public hearing. So, I'm opening the public hearing and asking anyone who would like to come up and speak about this issue. It's clearly cleaning up for us. It's all good. And if you could please state your name and your address, please. >> Paul Johnson, um 1872 Briarwood Lane. I wrote the wrong address. I wrote my parents' address, which is right across the street. Um I am a uh I would refer to myself as a stakeholder in the city. I've lived here my family moved here in 1965. Been a lot of changes in 61 years. Um >> Mr. Johnson, could you could you move that to the >> What would you Whatever you'd like. >> map? >> You bet. >> Yeah. >> You want the zoning or >> The aerial would be good. >> Okay. There you go. >> Thank you. >> Um And and it's just kind of interesting I also am a business owner. Um uh it's 14 years ago almost to the day that I was here for planning and zoning um planning commission meeting uh as well as uh city council. Uh we're looking to move our business aggressive hydraulics here. Um Uh we broke ground on in 2012 and moved here in in 20 2013 and uh I would just tell you that I was uh We were we I don't remember all the hoops that we had to jump through, but there were some dynamics going on and and there was a lot of energy because of um couple sides of the fence going on because of the city sewer and water project and and that sort of thing and and and I wanted everyone to, you know, being that I grew up here, I lived here, I ate my my children uh went to high school here. You know, I I've seen a lot of change and and uh and I and I have perspective too and and uh I I wouldn't say that my credentials uh match that of yours. I appreciate what you all do because you have to be visionaries and also be compliant, consistent, and all these sort of sort of things to um otherwise it's the wild wild west. In the early years when my family lived here, it kind of was that. This whole area on the east side of 65 None None of that was here when when we moved here and um you know, we're kind of dealing with it now. I remember when those things went in, the council My father was on the council in the mid-70s. House building lots in East Bethel back in those days, we talked about all the ruralness, they were 1-acre lots. And a lot of them were on top of one another, and there was a concern for contamination of the aquifer and and all those kind of things, but really just having deliberate um and and conscientious uh understanding of what and consideration for for what's what's what's going to happen. One of those addresses there, um I'm not going to point out which one, but there was a massage parlor. Um and I don't know how that got in, but uh I think it had something to do with zoning. But um um most everyone I knew weren't for it, but uh I was pretty young at that time, too. Um but I I'm here to uh I would just tell you I'm I'm here to support um the the plan you're looking at tonight and and I would and I would um I would just tell tell you why. Um you know, I and and my my opinion is humble opinion is is to, you know, find find find a way. Um and and again, I I I just appreciate the the city and staff, elected officials, um planning commission, um they we figured it out. We found a way. And and uh when I look at what we what we're looking at that's that's being developed um in light of everything that's there today, it it seems like a perfect fit. Um I know I know a lot of residents want um a grocery store. I don't think that's a good place for a grocery store. I don't think it's a good place for a restaurants. You know, we have other beautiful places in the city. Um you know, even back when I was a little guy, um Highway 65 was brand new. In 1965, the highway was only about four five years old. Um that big four-lane highway that we know now that everyone complains about, um there was nobody on it. And and as things started getting built up, the first thing you see when you enter the city of East Bethel was what was going on on the right. Look kind of like a tin mining town, you know, and I and I I mean that with all due respect. I I'm very proud of this city and and the residents and and the business owners, but um you know, certainly um we'll we'll figure it out. It's getting nicer and nicer there. Um the the the new developments that are going in are are are are looking very professional. We're We have a plan, but it seems as though we painted ourselves in that south end of that park a little bit in the corner. Um There's some things that I don't know, you know, that with the treatment water treatment um and and and the that lowland and there's mitigation on the uh in the wetlands there and and and and so on. It seems just again, my humble opinion and and being that I'm a neighbor, so I This is my place there and then and this is right up by the the world-famous Village Bank and and the So, just looking at the traffic, um you know, if that were commercial, we I know we're talking about extending the roads and and what have you just for escape routes and so on. Those are some of the things that we were dealing with uh 14 years ago. Um but I don't know if we're going to be able to get another access off the highway that's not already there. Um traffic um uh for safety, but also for the residents that are there with the uh um senior living that's going in there as well as the uh the the apartments and then and then the single family homes along that west side there on off Buchanan. Um so, uh just just intuitively and and and and again um being a from the business perspective and the traffic that I know is there and and what's there um um it it seems and and and the site uh or the the rendering um it's beautiful beautiful building and I really like that three-phase approach and and what what have you and and uh some of these other uh commercial um opportunities. We we need those in the city um for sure, but but it seems as though there's other locations that maybe would be more more conducive for this industrial park for the greater good of the city. Um and uh and whatnot. The other interesting I uh had the pleasure of uh um meeting Mr. Ross uh here a few weeks ago and and pretty enthused that uh uh he uh he's he's I I call him uh he's within our community. He's uh out of Cambridge, but uh I consider that our community cuz uh again, when I was here, that was a farming town. That's where you go to John Deere dealership and get parts and and uh what have you. And it feels better to me than as opposed to these really large corporations that have a little they're in and out. And uh again, not to disparage anything we're doing right now, but uh I like the feel of uh people within our community staying in our community and uh working on uh doing things for the greater good of everybody. But again, thank you so much for what you you do for the city, and I know it can be a thankless job and that and uh most people I talk to are very appreciative of what you do, and I want to thank you for that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, [clears throat] Paul. >> Thanks. >> Okay. And if you could just state your name again, please. >> Don Quigley Don. Um I own the Village Bank here and all over I originally built those, but I'm going to talk a little bit about it and different things up here. Your sewer and water uh came together at my place in Ramsey at the time I lived at a little ranch out there. And that council came to me to help get this passed to the city for the whole bond. That was around 40-ish million dollars. And so my history goes back to that time and the vision that they had at the time in that council was that we were going to bring development here. We were going to do it in phases. We need businesses so you can get rooftops so you have a place to go and work and you don't have to drive halfway across the metro. And I think that East Bethel was on the right path with that. People like Mr. Johnson that leap he took from Blaine to here was amazing. And by the way, I'll be very transparent. He's on my board. He's my best cheerleader and I choose people from the community to be on the board so we never lose touch of the community. You know, my life's been very different and been very filled. You know, I'm a farm boy. I came up the hard way, learned to work. It wasn't 5 days a week or 6 or 7. You had to milk those cows twice a day. Got to came to the cities and here I took off. I could outwork everybody when I was young and I work today. And we had I built all the old pipe brands, B-Vaps. I still have about 70 companies that lease from us in Blaine, so I understand your zoning and all those things. I've had the pleasure of working with city councils, helping Ramsey at the core out there. All these things and so I just would like you to reconsider a person like what Brian can do. I've seen it. I He doesn't bank with me, none of those things, so there's no inside thing here. It's about he's done projects for me. And he's an amazing person and the staff is amazing. They do what they say they're going to do. And I think that's what we all got to realize tonight how important that is. A lot of people like to talk. Who actually completes something? Sitting down listening to this plan I I called Don Chanhassen today. Ran by him to make sure cuz he's a big business person here, too. Lives in this community. And he was all for this. He said, "If you want me there tonight, I'll be there, but I got other things planned." They're you know Ben Minges across the street with all those projects and houses he's putting in over there's personal friend. Helped him get to raise that. Across the street, the Bader and Curry we financed that one. So, we're involved in the community and I'd like to see us stay that way. With these kind of projects coming in. Please don't handcuff the people that are willing to put up a building and finance. Let them have the pleasure of doing that. And then Blaine, we have the same restrictions. But they opened up a little bit more so we could build more buildings and have more businesses in there. And then we've had I've had churches start in my restaurants. I've had all kinds of businesses. And they work. The landlord is the one that has to monitor it. So, they don't come to the city and have issues. That's our job. Reboundz was the hardest one for me to do of all my ventures because we were out there in the middle of a sod field and then all the homes around it built. And then we got all the complaints. But I made a promise to Mr. Ryan, the mayor at the time that if you let me do that when I'm done and it will be done goes in phases I would develop it and that's why I put 50 detached bills around it. Today's residential with still our strip mall there. So, again, I come a different path here and that's we have a big debt with the city. I know those things are making and we got to pay it off. These are good businesses that don't go away. They stay because they find new tenants and they keep on moving. It's cash flow for the city. That's truly important. You're letting these communities or these buildings come in. We don't know what's going to be there in 10 years. But if you have mixed use of some sort that's viable for both parties, I think that's truly, truly important. And most people don't run a company like Brian does. Mr. Johnson. Ben Minges. All these people, they do it the right way. And I know it personally. Cuz my signature's on that, too. So, I just ask you, please. I've been in front of a lot of planning commissions, councils, and thank you for what you're doing. But let's open up and let the city grow. Do the right thing. It's going to keep growing here. You have a beautiful, beautiful community. It's like a flower. Let it grow. Okay? Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> I feel like yeah. That's a tough act to follow. I I'm a little I'm a little red in the face after all the things that were said here, but I'm Brian Boss. I'm the owner of Final Approach Development. Um as Don mentioned, I'm from Cambridge. Actually, I guess it was Paul that mentioned it. Uh so, I'm just up the road. I own properties in the area. I'm also a general contractor in Cambridge. So, we do uh not only build or develop, but build and then own and hold properties in the area. Um, that's why I'm here tonight. Um, my desire is to do just that in East Bethel. It's to um, add value to the city, um, and and hold that property for my family. And, um, do it by, um, paying my way, not asking for a handout, not not asking for subsidy. Um, we want our properties to look good. Want them to be well kept, and keep them full, and so we've got a little bit of a different concept here that we think is, uh, in demand, and that is, uh, kind of a small bay user concept, which is really looking at smaller tenants that need some space, but not 20 or 40,000 square feet. We're looking for users that maybe want 3 to 10,000 square feet. So, we're we're attempting to build a building that has great flexibility in how we can demise the space into usable units that we can therefore lease. And so, in order to be successful at that concept, we think it's really important to achieve some flexibility in the zoning beyond just the B3. And the reason for that is we anticipate you know, as as Eric has already talked through a a bunch of this, but some some light manufacturing, a miniature version of Aggressive Hydraulics, small machine shop that's that has just a few people, um, possibly a light distribution, or small-scale warehousing, not unlike Country Hearth in the neighborhood, um, construction-related businesses that need a small space for an office and a warehouse, not unlike Patton HVAC, Classic Construction, DEC, Willit Remodeling, and others in the neighborhood. Um, and we also need the ability to, of course, do the multi-tenant, which is not specifically listed as a permitted use in B3, but it is in light industrial. So, why do I need that flexibility? Again, we think that's important for the success of the project um to have a broader ability to obtain tenants that we think are compatible with the neighborhood. Um, we also think that this site is a little bit off the beaten path for many of the permitted uses of B3. It's It's almost exactly a half a mile from when you make the turn from 65 and get to the property line. Okay? That's too far for many retail users. They won't even look at it. And And so, that really rules out a lot of the B3 users, not because I want to rule them out, but because they won't choose that site. It's too far, too too much distance. So, again, we want the flexibility in tenant options. Want to keep the building full. Um, I think it's just the most consistent with the neighborhood if we had an amendment through CUP that allows some additional uses that are more consistent with the neighborhood. Um, that just drives more compatible uses and in alignment with the businesses that are there. Um, now, I I want to be clear that I'm not opposed to B3 users. If If somebody came to me, by all means, we would want to make a an attempt to lease to them. So, I'm also in favor of Eric's option two that provides text amendment to the existing B3 zoning by just adding some additional allowable uses. Um, you may have seen in the staff report that we already have a an interested user, and that's a it's a place of worship. And I just want to be clear about that. Um, they are ready to sign. Uh, but that would be a a subsequent request uh for a conditional use permit for a place of worship. Eric mentioned the wetlands. There's about 38 and 1/2% of the site is wetland or wetland buffer area. I can't deal with that very easily, and I don't want to deal with that. We want to be good stewards of the land and leave that alone and and work around it. And so, our our plan that was submitted um, is avoiding all those wetlands and buffer areas. And we think it it was creative, but uh we think it works quite well. So, I think I'll just wrap it up, and then I'll open it up for questions you may have for me. Um, you know, we're not we don't think we're asking for anything unusual or inconsistent. Uh, we think it's actually more consistent with the neighborhood. We think it's consistent with the comp plan and the guided uses of that. Um, and what mixed-use uh language was in the comp plan. Uh, And think that ultimately our request is gives the best option for similar operational characteristics and compatibility. We're not going to disrupt the neighborhood. We are going to provide pretty low impact neighborhood, limited vehicle traffic, etc. Um But at the end of the day, um I want to be in East Bethel as a as a property owner. Um I want the property to be successful. It's not successful for me, it ultimately isn't successful for the city. Um we want to be a part of the community. And uh we're hopeful that you'll see that in my presentation and what Eric has presented tonight that um the zoning piece is sort of our biggest hurdle. And uh without that, we likely don't have a project here in East Bethel at that location anyway. But we think it's a great use of this site. It's a It's a tough, challenging site. And uh we think this is a is a solution that that's a win-win. So I'll open it up for questions if anybody has any for me. >> Um I'm [clears throat] going to have quite a few questions for Eric Johnson, but I I did have one question about storage. So what kind of space are you allocating to the storage? >> Uh interior storage or exterior? >> storage. >> don't plan for any exterior storage right now. >> Okay. >> So I know that certainly in B3, exterior storage is not allowed, I don't believe. >> Mhm. >> So that is not part of my request at this time. So potentially that if a tenant were to need that, I would suspect I'd need to come back for additional approvals for a conditional use permit at some point in time, but my initial request does not include exterior storage. >> Any questions? >> Would that change if the zoning were changed to mixed use? >> As far as exterior storage? >> Right. >> Um I don't I don't know that it would change. I guess I'm not thinking through the reason that would require that to change due to the ex- due to a mixed use zoning. Um I haven't studied that enough to know if I I guess I don't expect they need it, so I'm not sure why I would change it. >> Okay. Two questions from Sorry, finish your >> I was just going to say I I'm a little bit of a stickler on tenants. I I don't like pallets sitting out. I don't like vehicles sitting out. I don't like semi trailers that aren't mobile sitting out for weeks on end, those sorts of things. So, it's really not my desire to to have exterior storage. >> So, two questions for me. Um the road that's tentatively planned to go on the western edge of your proposal, is that going through the wetlands? >> The road uh itself would not be something that I would hope to put in. >> Okay. >> But, I do intend to dedicate the easement to the city through the platting process. >> Okay. >> Um my personal opinion about that road is it'll probably never get built because of the wetlands. >> Okay. >> And I may be wrong on that. In 30 years, maybe that'll be there, but um it's definitely going to have some hurdles to to build that road. But, certainly I be of how we were able to lay out the site. We're willing to commit that, dedicate that to the city in this process. >> Got it. Thank you. And the second question, although a little forward-thinking is going to be pertinent to my decision, but with the daycare going in, what is your process for assessing tenants? Do you do background checks or otherwise? >> Uh the daycare's on a different building. >> but it is in the area. >> Right. Uh we always do uh financial background checks. We do run background checks in terms of uh you know, criminal backgrounds, those sorts of things. That's sort of standard practice. It's not necessarily required for landlords, but it's a it's a practice my company uses. Um so, certainly if we saw red flags, we would want to raise concern and and have more discussions about that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. Question. >> Yeah. Um I was kind of thinking on the same lines as the uh basically just who the tenants are going to be. So, >> Sure. >> um I guess I have a just two questions as well. So, how many units is it? How many possible uh different businesses could be in there? Granted, there could be people that purchase two, right? Or rent out two. >> Two spaces. >> So, uh the current building could be demised into six smaller units. >> Okay. >> Um that's probably unlikely. Um we think that uh if we are successful in attaining a CUP for a place of worship, we'll probably use 2/3 of the building for that purpose. Which would leave a couple of units vacant. Uh we do have some space where we could build an addition and make this building about 5,000 sq ft larger to the south. Um if we were very successful in a lease up and things progress, there's potential that that would get added on right away, which would then add more capacity for other other tenants. Today, our plan is to build a 21,600. And um that could be up to about six tenants. >> Okay. And then I guess just my follow-up question, which again, I'm not looking for a specific dollar amount or anything like that, but just as far as rent or leasing out, is this going to be comparable for people in our area for businesses to come in and actually lease the space? So, this building is full. It doesn't sit half empty and and so forth that we are actually bringing in, you know, people to our community. >> do this and have it sit empty. >> Okay. >> So, >> Right. >> I it has to rent and that's the only way I'm I would do this. And so, uh the rents are comparable up the street and so, we've studied the area, understand the the market a bit and the needs and and the rent rates and and we'll be advertising comparable market rates. >> Okay. >> I had a question about we got the cul-de-sac coming down and if you did develop that second would a road go across to Buchanan so they could run water main across so it's not a dead end into the cul-de-sac? >> So, I think I think the idea would be, you know, the initial phase one would would be the extension coming down with the cul-de-sac. Um as phases two and three are developed according to the engineering report, they had recommended we extend that water loop around with each of those phases. And Buchanan would have to also be brought down to the property >> Okay. >> as as part of one of those phases. Uh but lots or phases one and two can both be accessible from the first cul-de-sac. >> Right. I just very much would like to see that water main over to Buchanan because if you are going to put a tenant in there like a you know, six employees in one unit. >> Right. >> They're not going to use enough water and they're going to >> spread terrible >> Bad water, dead end, yeah. I understand that. >> So, that's that's you know, that's my background. So, it's kind of sensitive >> Right. >> to me. >> No, I understand that. >> the building and the opportunity you're providing. >> Thank you. >> That's all I had. >> Did you say that 2/3 of the space might be for worship? >> Potentially, yes. >> So, I'm wondering because the building design doesn't read worship space architecturally or artistically, would you adapt that to resemble that more as a worship space? >> Um we're sort of taking the approach that the worship space would be a really an interim use for them. Um they would like to place In fact, they've got three of the folks staff members from the church here tonight. Um they would like to have a new location in East Bethel. Uh they currently have locations in Shoreview and Blaine. And this would be their initial location until they get on their feet, raise enough money, and ultimately build their own facility in East Bethel or the area. Um and so um to answer your question, the church is temporary. So, I need to think about life after the church. >> Right. >> Um I also want to point out that a place of worship is typically tax exempt, but not in this case because I'm the owner, and so I'm still paying the full boat taxes. >> [clears throat] >> Um and so another reason for them to get out of my building because they don't need to pay me back for the taxes. >> In a loving way. >> In a loving way. In a like Jesus would. >> Well, for me, I do like the plan. Um Yeah, and I like the design, actually. Um Yeah, it seemed like you guys did did cover everything from from my end, especially the road and the situation just like that. So, I think I'm good on that. >> Thank you. >> Good night. >> What similar projects have you done then? >> Um Cambridge, we've done I've done several redevelopment projects. Bought old buildings, fixed them up. 22,000 ft building in Cambridge. I have a 12,000 ft new construction in Isanti. Multi-tenant building, a US Postal Service office in Cambridge that I'll own and hold as a family real estate investment. I built the Cambridge library, which I converted from a nursing home and to into a library, public library. That was an interesting project. Um So, and and a and a number of multi-family projects I've co-developed and and retained ownership in in the area. Um we own and hold several vacant parcels of land as well in the area, which are waiting for the right opportunity to develop. So. >> So, so far you haven't done uh taking vacant land and putting up buildings like this then? >> Well, I built in Sandy we did. >> Yep, that's a 12,000 ft that's a more of a retail center less this style. It's not a light industrial type use. Um I've got light industrial type users in my building in Cambridge. Um sort of a mixed use there. Um but I have not built from the ground up small bay user facility yet. But uh knowing what I know about the 65 corridor from Blaine to Cambridge, there's a there's a demand for that. >> What do you think the useful [clears throat] life of a building like this would be? I mean how far are we looking in the future? >> Um much longer than my lifetime. And um I guess that's an interesting question, but my goal is always that uh certainly if I'm going to own it, it's I'm looking at more than the the cost the initial investment cost. I'm looking at the cost of ownership. And that that entails, you know, maintenance over the years, new roofs, windows, those sorts of things. Those all add to the the cost of ownership. And as a as a guy who will hold it and maybe my children will own it at some point, it's important to me that I address those things because somebody has to pay and I want to use quality materials that will last and will last. >> Well, and and somebody has to be a a tenant, too. Um [clears throat] actually, the reason I asked that is because I used to be co-owner of a machine shop in Fridley and I was in one of those buildings off of 65 that are not so good and I'm wondering if it's still standing. And that was not so long ago. >> Yeah, a lot of those were neglected and they they lasted for 80 years, but they should have been you know, out of service at 50 or something. You know, so >> Um that's not, of course, my intention. Um I I don't think um we'll have those sorts of users. They may be at a a very small scale, but uh it's very important to me that my properties look nice and are well-kept. And uh certainly be willing to um pass along some references that way at some point if it's important to the city, but that's a that's a super important to me that what we have and own and display for our communities is is nicely kept. Thank you. >> Will it have adequate parking if you have that much church? >> A lot of parking there is. >> It's tough to tell from the plan. >> Yeah, one of the beauties of uh you know, this location is that we're able to get ample parking. Um you can see on the rear of the building, the west side of the building, there's sort of that truck circulation area, which we do have some drive-in doors and a couple dock doors planned. You need space for big trucks to maneuver. Um but we've also dashed in parking there that demonstrates a proof of parking for a a worship space use. So, Sundays there'd be you know, 200 parking stalls available, but during the week there's probably you know, less than 20 or 30 being used. Um so, using that large paved area on the west, it's doubling as truck maneuvering, but also Sunday parking in that way. Thank you. That's all. >> Anyone [clears throat] else have questions? One on this side. You guys. >> I can jump back up if you have more, so. >> Thank you. Well, thank [clears throat] you so very much. >> Thank you. >> We really appreciate it. And does anyone else want to come up and speak? Okay. All ready. And >> [clears throat] >> If you could say your name and your address, please. >> Uh David Soren. 2285 136th in Blaine. Um I am the lead pastor of Renovation Church, so we would be the tenant. Um I just want to thank you all for what you do and I know it takes a lot of work and a lot of time and time away from your family, so thank you for doing what you do for the city. Um two quick things I'll say. One, we love working with Brian. Uh he he built phase one of our building in Blaine, our initial building, and then his company also built phase two. And when you when you go through a a large building project, you work with so many companies and groups with realtors and banks and architects and uh they were far and away the best company that we've worked with. Um just an absolute man of integrity. He does what he says. Um just has an incredible reputation uh in in this area, so uh we we love him and I can't recommend him to you enough. And then secondly, uh we've been wanting to come to East Bethel for a long time. Um love this city. Um you know, there's a lot of great things in East Bethel, but one of the unique things about the city is there are five churches in East Bethel whose attendance cumulatively adds up to 300. There are 15,000 people in the city. Um and so that's that's crazy. So, most of the residents of East Bethel that are attending a church, you know, probably 90% of them have to leave the city to go to a church. And uh we will come probably with uh 300 we'll start at 3 to 400 at this location with a live teaching pastor. Just excited to just come here and have a place where the residents of East Bethel can have community and be have a short drive. We don't have to drive 15-20 minutes to everything. You can drive to church in your town. So we're just we're just really excited to to be here for the community so residents can go to church in their own community. So That's all I wanted to say. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. And the next gentleman. And if >> Jeff Nordness, I represent the landowner. >> Okay. And can you just state your name for the just for the minutes, please? >> Nordness. >> And your address? >> It's uh 6207 South Land Trail, Land O' Lakes. >> Thank you. >> And so this it's not about selling the property for me. It's more about the concept that he's bringing to your city. I deal with mostly um companies under 20 employees. And the need for small bay um buildings such as this for the entrepreneurial spirit in new business and bringing people into this the city and keeping them here is I I can't speak better about that. All as I've seen in the last 6 years is people they're building 200,000 square foot buildings with minimum minimum rentals of 20,000 square feet. Often times they're leasing the whole entire thing. So you got one tenant in 200,000 square feet that takes up a massive amount of land and it doesn't create the the growth that you would like to see. It's all it's all storage. And this is something that you know, ironically, I've known Brian for a couple of long time. And he just happened to be the one that came to this property. I did not seek him out. He saw he he came and saw this land and I just happened to have it. >> Mhm. >> Um and it's just it it's just really follows what you've got in this area and the rest of the the the businesses that are there. Which really drives, in my opinion, the United States of this You know, 95% of the companies in the United States are under 200 employees. Which is what we're really built on. So, just want to and and just the the this type of building that he's planning is really top-notch. So, that's all I've got to say. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I should let him add on however he's at. >> Yep, come on up, please. >> [clears throat] >> Just so that it can be in the minutes. >> Yes. What they're talking about here is a small base. That's what we have a lot in Blaine. And we have them anywhere from, you know, 2,400, I think, up to one tenant of ours is about 35 to 40,000 square feet. I love to see people outgrow our buildings cuz that means that they started and they need a place to start. There's not a lot of places for that to do. In Blaine, we're full. They're not going to go to Ham Lake cuz the water sewer is not there. That's why I backed this so much about water sewer coming up here. This is an opportunity of a lifetime for the city. It really is. You've got a guy that we trust. I He's a very humble man. He's done a lot of construction things, a lot more than he's talking about. He's well-heeled. He had the man with the church in Lexington. I've been there. I go to Eagle Brook. But everybody needs a place to worship, no matter where you come from. We need to do. And I think this is another perfect opportunity for this. It fits the story you guys are writing about the future. But we need your approvals, and you know, that's what it's all about. So, I think what he's doing is going to be fantastic for the city. And cash flow, pay debt back. So, that's a big deal. So, thank you for listening. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Does anyone else want to come and talk about the issue? If not, I'm closing the public hearing. And now we're going to have a little chat. So. What about on this side? Do you guys want to >> I mean, I guess my question remains the same about the the street that's going to go through the wetlands. Do you want to speak a little bit about >> could a little bit. Um one of the one of the things cities do, um and I think I put this in your packet, um this service road opens. Come on. >> Is that required? Is that something that is going to be required at this point, or is that just >> Um so, cities you you you you never know what um MnDOT or other road entities of the world do, right? Um so, cities always try to say, "Okay, how are we planning to move people around our community?" And so, cities have these long-range road concepts. Um and so that's what is shown here and this was from our city engineer. Um and maybe that road in some point in the future ties down to 181st Street. There's no design for that. There is no money set aside for that. There is nothing that is uh immediately pending on that, but nevertheless, cities still have to plan for how we move around our community in some way, shape, or form. Um I forget who said it, it might likely never be built, um but if this development is being presented to you, you have to take the opportunity to acquire and secure that potential right-of-way. Um because once it's built, you can't then go get it back. Um so that's the genesis of some of this stuff. Not a not a pending road project. >> And from an emergency response, is there a requirement that we put a road in there? >> No. >> Okay. >> Um some sit some cities, you will prohibit uh and a lot most cities will prohibit long dead ends. You know, where it's 600, 700 ft or how long does it take to get an ambulance back or um in this case, that's why it looks to connect to the next logical point of 181st Street. Um but again, this is nothing more than a really long range vision scoping concept. >> And from the engineering perspective, what is the impact if we have to put a road over the wetlands? >> I'm sorry. >> From an engineering perspective, what is the impact to the surrounding lakes if we have to put a road through there? Or not that we have to, but if that >> Oh, I think to the applicant's point, Mr. Boss's point, it probably would be difficult to do. City would be required, like any other entity to um mitigate for those. I mean, wetlands are around our community and they're across the country, obviously, and they are impacted by a lot of the things we do, um but you then have to do the assessment. Um the applicant, as a matter of fact, is doing a deeper wetland assessment at this point, which is required as a next step. But if the city went in and did that road in 10 years, for example, we'd have to comply with it. >> Whatever those rules are. >> Um I think it's a two-to-one replacement match still, um but those rules could change, so. >> Okay. So, I have >> I'm wondering why the best option wouldn't be to go rezone to mixed use rather than trying to change the definition of B3 because then we have maybe problems down the road with other B3 areas. Whereas giving this mixed use would eliminate any of that and would allow for this development to be there. >> Yeah, I have exactly the same question, but maybe I'm not understanding um >> Yeah, this isn't [clears throat] an easy conversation. I mean, it takes a lot of understanding the and met mat- mixing and matching the the potential options here. Um So, let's look at the mixed use code. >> Isn't it already mixed use? >> No, it's B3. Right now, it's B3. The guidance is mixed use, but the actual land use rules that apply today um is B3. >> Okay. >> Um so, if you rezoned it to a formal mixed use, um what we what we'd look at that is um what is the purpose of that. Um, urban structure, streets and blocks. Um, it looks for include office, retail, residential uses. I don't think that's the flavor of what they're asking to >> It's still not having light industrial, correct? Machine shops and >> No, it's that that and that's the permitted uses. Um, from a conditional use standpoint, um, these are the approved conditional uses. Could you maybe to your point, Mr. Terry, is that could you amend the the mixed use district to to allow certain industrial uses much like the B3 possibility? Sure. But, one thing that the mixed use still does, it encourages residential development in some way, shape, or form. And is this area something the city wants to see more residential growth? >> So, I'm looking at exhibit M. And exhibit M's the bottom says limited secondary zoning, light industrial, PUD, a comma P PUD. So, which is different than what you just showed me. >> No, so so the guidance is different from the zoning. So, the mixed use guidance, these are just very broad broad terms. So, the purpose of our mixed use zoning areas is, again, commercial, residential uses. Um, it may include medium-density residential, may include light industrial. It may, but you still then have to go back and do an amendment to your land uh your to your zoning code. >> So, why are those not These the guidance and zoning, why are they not? >> Well, they're not always going to match. Um Uh the the guidance tells the council and all of us the direction we kind of want to go. Um and the controls tell us what we can do today. In effect. Um if if the city wants um that to be more of a residential area, you know, you could. Um but also I wanted to go back to the mixed use of your guidance. Uh where is that? So, your future land use map and that's and that's what I'm referring to talks about all this being the mixed use. And then we'd look at what that chart is I had up before. So, it does allow for certainly to have some inclusiveness of industrial, some inclusiveness of a more intensive use. But, the day-to-day zoning code which is these apartment complexes and then lands to the east across 65, um have clearly been developed as residential. The Viking Meadows development, that is all zoned mixed use. Um >> And then the kind of maroon is um whatever color that is is B3. >> Yep. >> I mean, like What? >> How difficult would it be to make the to change the existing zoning of mixed use to reflect the mixed use purpose? >> When the city adopted these were again these were adopted in 20 18 2019 or so. So we're still following that guidance. Um you're going to be going through a comprehensive plan amendment in the next 18 24 months. You're going to be required to update all of these. If you don't want residential if you or let me rephrase it if you want residential in this zone then re-zone it to mixed use. And you will then not have uses such as being proposed cuz they're not a permitted or conditional use. >> That's till we change that to reflect this. >> Right but but again so you're still trying to then still mix residential use and and a commercial or industrial use and whereas the opportunity to you just straight re-zone it to industrial or to keep it a B3 with some capacity for industrial it it it more or less guides it non-residential. >> Is a church a permitted use in a industrial? >> Um no they are if in the B3 again all of it's you got to go but always go back and look. Um in the B3 district um they are it is a conditional use. A house of place of worship so >> Yep. >> Um but in the industrial you in the industrial district, um, public institution, sorry. Let's take a look. um, it it is it is allowed by um, conditional use as determined by the planning commission. >> So, what about like, um, a distribution business >> [clears throat] >> or a furniture store or something like that or a >> um, in in in the industrial? >> Yeah. >> um, well, then we go back to the permitted uses that are allowed in the B2 and B3 districts as determined by you folks in the city council. So, you could do the same things in the industrial district uh, that you can do in the B2 and B3. Um, but what I think what we're suggesting to you is kind of a form-based approach to this is I'll keep it as a B3 district, um, which they can still do in the industrial zone, but your process to change your zoning also then requires a comp plan amendment, communication with the mid council, um, and does then allow all of these other uses to be done in, um, your industrial zone as listed and by conditional use permit. um, Remem- The other thing to keep in mind is one thing you still have to deal with or all of us city, you still have a residential piece here. You know, and trying to be sensitive to what they have to be neighbors with that if you allow without the rezoning, you allow certain things by conditional use permit you can control that design, you can control that intensity um and from a form-based zoning, I guess um if it comes in by conditional use permit, you can require the building to look as such operate as such um and it isn't quite so much a concern as what's in it. Does that make sense? [clears throat] You know? >> So how complicated is the process to do a CUP for each of these phases? >> Um so that's part of the thing we'd probably have to talk about um till we see what they're actually proposing. Again, what you're dealing with is a comp plan and what we believe we were trying to uh get from you uh all is what might be a if you like the concept how might you best facilitate the concept? Is it through a rezoning to industrial? Is it through a comp plan I'm sorry, is it through keeping it B3 and allowing certain things by >> Right. >> by by conditional use permit um or to even Mr. Terry's comment, well, should it be mixed use and allow something, you know? So what might be the best option? And then trying to throw in what's the most narrow. What again, and so you're you're you're not I mean, if you wanted it to be zoned industrial, you could certainly do that. And that wouldn't be invalid, but now you have a kind of an island around a residential zone. >> Who's already looking over a lot of um industrial stuff. >> Right. So we're trying to be sensitive to them as well. And if you can control it through a CUP, it gives you the most latitude for quiet and quiet occupancy, and control the lighting, control some of the hours if need be. >> But then, so if we keep it as B3, then anytime they have a tenant that wants to come in for light industrial, they'll have to come in. >> Right. But if it's B3, but if it's permitted in the B3, they could just do it. >> But that's a a great question, because if you build the building um within within the scope of the the zoning, and then some different tenant comes in that's not within then does that tenant have to >> Yes, they do. >> go through the process? >> question at that point is the use versus the structure. >> Right. >> Mhm. >> So, you're saying that if we kept it as B3, then that's where you're saying we would add these specific >> You would add it so they want to do a multi-tenant building as they showed in the B3, that would be by conditional use to to build a building there. Now, one other Good you brought it up, and it's really deep in the weeds with some of the zoning things. >> It is. >> Um is is what what what could that language kind of really look like, you know, I've I've spent a little bit of time you know, thinking about I don't know if I have. >> So, I definitely don't want to deter businesses having another hoop to jump through to think that they have to then come in and get a CUP >> Yeah. >> to maybe be accepted and approved for their business to come in here. >> In most cases, they're going to have to do that anyway because of their site plan requirements. They're going to be here. Your other elements of your code require your review for your site plan. It's as commercial. So, home you you showed up and you bought a piece of property in the city, you wanted to build a house, you would not be required to go through a site plan review. Um but for commercial enterprises, you do. Um so so again, uh this is I'm just going to show this and this is just ignore the rest of it, but this is something that I've just this should be maybe further down the path. Um that if you did an amendment to your B3 district, you would the language would look such as something like this. Um So, it would be by conditional use, light industrial condominium and multi-tenant commercial industrial building subject to the use restrictions and then that would be the use restrictions below. So, um And those those restrictions would be uh where do I have those? Oh, limitations, I suppose. So, this is what they could do in those buildings. >> So, what we see there is that kind of what the text amendment would be? >> Yeah. Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. And so, you would be allowed to do by conditional use permit industrial condominium or multi-tenant building subject to the use limitations. Um you could do limited warehousing, storage, distribution facilities that are accessory to your commercial showroom, to a commercial um to a commercial use. Again, this is some rough language. Um these are the other facilities that could be there. Um but we would specifically state that truck repair, truck depots, truck stops, freight terminals, logistics facilities, and other truck intensive uses are not permitted. And the reason we should specifically state that is again, the B3 zoning would apply broadly, not just this one space. >> All right. >> So, we have to think Excuse me, where else is this zone? So, um we would need some additional clarification about what a light And to your point, Commissioner uh Pignataro, um is we don't want to have them come in for everything if we can avoid it. Um so, maybe we can I wrote this a while ago, so um we define what what a light industrial condominium tilt built building is. And that's uh containing two or more tenant spaces for office, showroom, contractor, research, or light industrial uses. Tenant spaces may be occupied by a B3 permitted uses and permitted uses than light industrial district without separate use permits. Without separate conditional use permits >> [snorts] >> in that building. Um So, if they're in that special building, um as part of that CUP, we can kind of preempt some of that review. Um but the last sentence would go back to no warehousing, storage, or distribution shall be permitted. Um except for item W above, which allows some limited use of those things. Um to indoors. So, it's a lot of back and forth. It's easier to just rezone it industrial in some sense, but you lose some of that control. >> I think the thing that I mean, if we were to go this route, some industry, even light industry, requires a lot of water. And I would prefer if they come in and get approval for those industries. Um in which case, if we went this route, I would recommend we put something in that exception um because we need a con- we need to be aware of those type of industries. Otherwise, I'm also in favor of the the sticking with the B3 and requiring CUPs, especially since they're going to always come in anyway. And that way we have the opportunity to assess on a case-by-case basis whether those are going to impact the natural resources of the community. >> And that's a in in a lot of ways, the the site the site itself I'm sorry, a lot of a lot of things. I mean, these aren't I mean these are not big facilities. I mean, they're they're important and they do a lot of they do a bring a lot of good in what they do, but in of themselves, these aren't big facilities aren't massive trucking warehouses or or anything like that. They're relatively small facilities on a very kind of compact site that's hard to utilize. Um So, I I don't think you'll be facing a um a a a demand for outside storage in any way, shape, or form. I think you're going to you're going to have a lot of >> [clears throat] >> precious land there along your corridor. That um somebody would I think be ill-advised to invest in something like that. It's my opinion, so what we're saying is again not that you have to decide that action tonight but give counsel um in the resolution um just to kind of go back to that um >> I guess so convince me why we wouldn't rezone this as industrial one. >> It limits uses. >> It does. >> So we go with with the um a mixed use like the what do you or year for for So that will cover us basically everything. Yeah? >> Could you say that again commissioner? >> So so if we approve that that the zoning for mixed use is it going to cover like like everything? So >> No. >> No. >> No. >> It doesn't do the light industrial. >> The best option is the B3. >> I think it should be B3. >> with the attachments. >> Mhm. >> And you got to remember all of these guidelines I mean we're sitting here in a 3-hour meeting. >> Mhm. >> You they don't cover every use that's going to come to you. >> Mhm. >> And when we do our new combine there's going to be things in there that aren't in there today. Example data centers AI data centers. They weren't mentioned years ago. >> Right. >> the reality is to keep it as flexible as possible. >> Well that's what I'm trying to do is like trying to make that happen. >> Yeah and so doing that is the B3 with the amendment. >> Okay cuz I'm like I just don't again I didn't realize that they every business that have to come before us. >> Yeah just in in the strategy because of the site plan factor not so much not so much from a zoning standpoint but just from a site management access water use you know some of that stuff. >> Okay. Yeah, cuz I that's I'm like I'm trying to make it so it is an easier to come to East Bethel, start your business. >> Yeah. >> for here for opportunities, make it easy for you. >> I mean, even out out the shoot, the applicant talks about having a tenant who already needs a conditional use permit. So, these things >> Yes. >> these things you're going to always have some push and pull. >> And this won't affect anything that's already existing in the B3, or is that going to affect any businesses in the B3 if we add this? >> Well, it might give them some more flexibility if they have some different uses. >> So, it won't take anything away. >> No. No. >> [clears throat] >> But just to play the devil's advocate a little bit is that that might give future businesses flexibility that we didn't want them to have when we when we did the zoning in the last comp plan. >> And that's a really good point, so that's why you want that that amendment to be narrow. >> Is that doing something like putting in apartments in the industrial area? >> [laughter] >> So, I mean, there's a perfect example, you know, where you know what I mean? And really, honestly, it's not bad there, right? And putting this building there is not going to >> It'll be great. >> hurt that building. >> To to the applicant's comment, and I mean, let's say it was a McDonald's that wanted to go down in this spot, for example. The McDonald's would be vastly more disturbing to that neighborhood than in terms of light, noise, traffic than maybe what they're proposing. >> Right. >> And so, you would control that by a CUP. They could still show up with a McDonald's cuz it's B3. Um but if it's zoned industrial, they could still come in as a permitted use. >> Sure. >> So, it's a little bit of a push and pull. Um >> Yeah, I think we should um like you know, go to B3. I would wish we should Well, well, I think that makes more sense to me. All right. >> So, what I what I talk put talk put it in the in the is if you if you folks think it's it's it's a concept that's uh is good, I guess, for lack of a better word. Is a lot of what we're spend what you're spending your time on is this paragraph here is ask the city council to direct staff to evaluate whether limited amendments to the B3 highway district may be appropriate to accommodate um those things we talked about. So, again, what I showed you was just myself scratching on a piece of paper and just trying to think about until the council tells me to do it, I I really won't um think about it too much. But, the paragraph B uh gives guidance to say, "Hey, but we're going to restrict these uses we don't want outdoor storage, freight terminals, truck depots, and and anything else you might want restricted." So, >> And who does that part? Does that our discussion >> That will be in staff. >> And this is going to take a few months to do. I do do want to say to you, you know, I think that everyone agrees that this is a a good idea. I can't speak for everyone, but for me, I think it's a great idea. The mundane part is how do we make it happen? You know. >> So, when you say a couple months, I don't think uh we can Talking to the applicant, they they're they're trying to move this along, which is normal. Um so, if they >> And not spending a lot of money while we're discussing this. >> Um so, if you folks approve the resolution or something generally of support such as this or maybe other changes, um that goes to the council uh, next early next month. Um, but they have a deadline of, uh, early middle of next week for and they're going to have to take a leap of faith in some way, shape, or form as to what the council cuz they can Anybody can apply for something. >> Mhm. >> Um, uh, they'll probably apply for a, um, their next step in this would be site plan review, uh, not saying it all right. >> Right. >> Uh, the steps that Yeah, the CUP for the church, you know, all these things. >> I think we, yeah, we get it, right, as far as like they're going to >> Yeah, it's all coming at you one way or >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, we've got it, yeah, okay. I think I we've got time to kind of think through some stuff. >> Our resident expert. >> [laughter] >> Well, given all that discussion, it seems like the B3 with the what do you call it, text amendment? >> Yes, sir. >> Would be the best route and I'm presuming the applicant is fine with that approach. >> I can't won't speak for him, but I think that's been the Everybody's cautiously optimistic about trying to make that work for everybody. >> Have you seen or you kind of been on the text amendment cuz presumably it would be preferred assuming that language is if they have to do what we're trying to do Yes, that would be your preference. >> I think you have as clear a picture of this as I do. It's a lot of discussion. >> I think I probably spent more time looking at this than you have at this point. >> Mhm. >> I've just here to spend a great deal of time looking at all of these things. I think he's on to something. Initially, my request was an industrial my industrial rezone, but I can see the validity in the other option at this point. >> Okay. >> Yeah, way more sense. >> With that, I'd like to make a motion, although I'm not quite sure how, but I would try it this way. I'd like to make a motion to recommend the approval Oh, you've got it up there. Is that the official >> uh PC 26 07 and then with any amendments you might want. >> And this is basically the same what we're just >> Yes, sir. >> Right. I'd like to make a motion to adopt the resolution number PC 26-07 as written, and I don't know of any amendments to that. Does anyone >> Sorry, can you confirm this is same mixed use or does it say B3? Cuz I see mixed use. >> I'm sorry. Where What >> It says where in the second whereas >> It's guided mixed use. Um it's not zone mixed use, but it's guided. >> Got it. >> Guided is different than zoning. >> Right. >> It's falling >> I may I might make that mistake, make no mistake, right? But >> But it's basically B3 with the COP. >> Yeah. >> So >> Okay. So that concludes my motion. >> Okay, good. Do we have a second? >> I'll second. >> That. >> Fabulous. Any further discussion? If not, all in favor say I. >> I. >> And opposed? So that motion passes. And now Mr. Johnson, if you could say what the next steps are. >> Oh, well. Um I have to think about that. Um obviously this has to go to the council. Just purely from the concept plan review, this has to go to the council. >> Mhm. >> Um and and with the with your recommendation and that they'll they'll make a final finding um and then report back to the applicant. Um in the meantime, I have to sit down with them and see what the next best steps are. Um good news is we don't have to go to the uh net council. I did affirm that today, which is fine. I mean, they've been supportive of everything we've wanted from them. Um but they were helpful. There's a site plan element. Um there's a I have to think about how we best process this now, so >> Mhm. >> I don't have a great answer for you, but we'll we'll but you'll expect something at your next meeting. >> Okay. >> Um at the very least, if the council approves it, we have to have a public hearing on that text amendment. >> Right. >> And and so once that's in place, um all that can be concurrent. Uh concurrent asks. >> Mhm. >> Um so it'll be a maybe this one won't be so long. Maybe the next one will be a little longer, so but we have to and that's kind of part of it. >> I just thought of something that I don't know whether it was in the resolution or not, which is the easement for the service road from Buchanan. >> Um it's shown on the adopted uh map as a as a concept, so it's in there by default, but um we know that the applicant is going to have to spend a little bit of time with the city engineer in figuring out those cul-de-sacs and and some of those things. Um >> We already are here. We're we're already talking to the engineer about >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and we'll have another meeting with the applicant with um Hackinson and the city attorney and all the parties to see what our next steps are. But this is a big hurdle. >> Well, and I do like to kind of give a few words to the applicant and other people that are interested that you know, kind of what the next steps are and with the city council meeting, they don't have a public hearing like this. So, there's not another opportunity to kind of have a back and forth. There is a public forum at the beginning as of there. So, if there's something that absolutely needs to be said or you could um write letters or communicate with the council if you'd like to, too. Okay. We appreciate you. Already, anything else that we need to discuss? So, that matter's done and anything else on the agenda? >> Um just one update for you. Your the city's newsletter is coming out here in the next week or so. >> Yay. >> And and so, I'm I'm told on the front page is the uh short-term rental stuff. So, you got the head billing, you know, is it really >> Okay, good. >> It wasn't up much, you know, so So, we'll expect that public hearing on the July It's your July meeting. Um I know the council is eager to um consider it, um but they were more than happy to They have to have a public hearing on the ordinance and this is a zoning change, so >> Well, the same with the public hearing then for this text amendment. If If we can advertise it anyway we can. So, cuz I I do think that's good there's going to be some opposition just or whatever. Uh the request for restraint because it does kind of go against what this our comprehensive plan was. I mean, not go against it, but it expands it, I would say. >> Yeah, it it certainly expands it, but it is consistent with this. >> Thank you. >> It it's not it's not against it. It's certainly part of that conversation under the mixed use guidance. Not the the zoning, but the guidance. >> Right. >> Um I think I think what the intent was 10 years ago when they wrote that was let's our our our future vision needs to be flexible, but right now here's what we want to control. So. Like best guess. >> Okay. Well, again, I'm just asking that we could that we advertise this as it however we can. >> I'll do Well, it'll be on our website. It'll be on our um it'll be in the in the newspaper. >> You'll be posting on posting on Facebook, right? >> I will, >> [laughter] >> but you are welcome. >> That's a no. And you guys were going to reach directly out to some of the the Airbnb >> Yeah, uh yes. And so the one I had hoped to reach out to, I don't think I will be anymore, but there's a long story there. Um but also if you know anybody, I mean everybody's going to see it. You know, um you're so you're going to get hopefully we'll get some operators, and then I'm sure we'll get the people who don't like it. And then you get people who do like it. So, or it'll be crickets in here, one of the two. >> We love those meetings, though, we Yeah. >> No, I think you're going to have uh two two from our street uh because y'all I think I got I think it's like two or three of of them, so. >> Yeah, if they're willing to show up and speak pro or con, whatever that means, it's >> Yeah, maybe. No, but they never did. They just they just they just rent it out. Um so, um yeah. >> Awesome. >> Nice. >> So, it It be a longer meeting, but which is okay. That's what we're here >> Nothing else? My only comment is and I don't know how we do this, but we had some conversations around the the possible alignment of the comp plan to the the mixed use like guidelines. I don't know if we can take an action or otherwise to follow up in 2 years when we do the comp plan, but make sure we don't lose that. >> tell you this. The city is basically starting its comp plan process now. Um, we we applied to the Met Council for um cuz that is our entity the city has to submit our comp plan to as well as our neighboring communities. We have to have it adopted by October 2028. So, it's usually a year and a half long process. >> Are you hiring somebody to >> No. It's It's you It's you folks and me. >> Well, it's don't panic because it's an upgrade. It's not the original plan. The original plans were the nightmare. So. >> Yeah. Well, we'll do It'll be It'll be >> I had to do a lot of documents for comp plan in my career, so. >> Yeah, you got It'll Well, and so it's an 18-24 month process. Um, they Met Council just approved our budget and approved our work plan. And so, if I turned this into them and they liked it, then we got some money. >> Yeah. >> So, I found out today we got some money. So, but we will have city engineer involved >> Mhm. >> for the water, sewer, and storm elements. And we will have some some help for some of the mapping and like the images I showed tonight, a A of that's done by WSB, which is a consulting firm. You've probably all heard them before. And then some of the zoning things and the mixed use and those blue charts um those are just excerpts from the comp plan. Um so I'll give you all copies then what do you want to see changed? Somehow we got to get the community involved. >> Right. >> You know, and and do you do that on a Saturday morning? Do you do that on a Wednesday night? You know, you know, it's all part of it. >> Yeah, and the last time I I thought it was good and we had a lot of input. And Mr. Terry did a great job of cheering us through it. >> What do you think about the comp plan? >> Yeah. You were the chair for the final year of it. >> I don't even remember. >> You don't? I do. >> I mean I remember going through a lot of these meetings. >> Yeah, too true. >> Well, yeah, so it's coming at you. It's starting basically starts August 2026 and it's an 18-24 month process. So >> like he's going to be able to walk us through it. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's sounding optimistic. >> [laughter] >> Um so that's what I know. Good or bad. >> All right, well, I'll make a motion to adjourn. >> Is there a >> Second. >> I second that. >> Great. Any discussion? If not, all in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? So the meeting is adjourned.