okay we'll uh call to order a special meeting of the city council of East Bethel today's date is August 7 2023 time is around 6 36. Mr Davis you wanna read anything yeah you want to make a motion to adopt the agenda make a motion to adopt the agenda second motion made and seconded all in favor aye opposed none hurt first item on the agenda is the conditional use for Mid Amendment for Nexus 900 189th Avenue Northeast on August 1st 2018 the East Bethel city council approved a conditional use permits for the operation of the psychiatric residential treatment facility at 900 189th Avenue Northeast this field facilities operated briefly by Camby Hills until they're closing in 2021. next is Diversified Community Services a licensed operator for youth psychiatric residential treatments intends on purchasing and reopening the facility continuing the previous service provided by cambia Hills conditions of the Camby Hill cup contained language is no longer relevant to the property and requires amending the conditions of their cup are listed in your CC meeting package Nexus is proposing to amend this cup with the following number one a change from 60 to 40 beds and the age range is indicated on the Nexus license application to a change in the client demographic or range of 6 to 17 years of age to an age range of 10 to 19 years drop the supervised living facility last Eli same specifically in the previous cep which is not required by the Minnesota Department of Health currently and removing the enter entering into a new development agreement is unnecessary is this facility has been constructed and all the requirements of new meds on July 25th 2023 the Planning Commission held a public hearing regarding the cep request the only public comment received is a written letter of support from our savior's Lutheran Church after discussion regarding two potential additions to the proposed conditions the members of the Planning Commission voted four to one recommending approval of resolution 2023-54 the amendment of The conditional use permit staff in the Planning Commission request city council review the conditional use permit for Nexus and consider approval of resolution 2023-54 has exhibited an attachment one for the property located at 900 189th Avenue East Bethel Minnesota pin number 31-33-23-11-001 make a motion to approve resolution 2023-54 as exhibited attachment one so motion made and seconded is there any discussion yeah I got some questions here Jack maybe you can answer them I'm not sure I've read so much stuff on this but for cambia I understood away weren't there Residential Treatment Facility it was a psychiatric residential treatment facilities I understand Jim okay because all the stuff that I've read I heard that Kamia applied for that but I I heard that they closed before they got it is that true that could be but they were only open for a very brief period of time their patient population is restricted there could have been some changes in that but they opened they theoretic open on March the 16th 2020 the covered mandates came down a week later so they were restricted to what they can do maybe that interfered with some of the language and some of their permits and they closed in May of 2021. okay because see that's what I'm curious because if we're going to go off the same cop if they weren't prtf at that time can we actually do this yes that's what that's what they were actually operating as is a prtf okay okay I got that done I guess question I had then I was reading through uh like a number two page three on the 10 to 19 year old age and when I was reading through the packet and stuff the way I understand it that if uh a resident is under 18. and hadn't finished high school that once if they're a resident at that time and they're proceeding with trying to do that that they can stay in the facility until they get that if I understand it right so basically I look at it like okay they're 17 years old and 11 months and they become a resident and they're going for their high school diploma say they didn't go to school for four years so they could be like 22 years old before they got out of there is that right I'm going to turn that over to Michelle and see if she can give us a more definitive answer than I can on that could you come to the right thanks Michelle I just hi okay in all of our other facilities I've never seen something like that happen to kit to have a child linger that long um but it would be really hard to justify from the treatment standpoint because we'd have a hard time getting an authorization to treat a child for four years sure but the way it's written cup it says if they're under 18 start going for their high school diploma or whatever they can stay there until they reach it so my concern was like say if they didn't go to school for four years before that because of mental health or whatever so they could stay there until they're 22 until they get their diploma correct well possibly I don't think so because I think that what would happen is probably there's School regulations that I wouldn't know of that would prevent that from happening plus that would require us getting permission to treat somebody for four years that's not likely had to happen I mean because this is not a problem I think what was the wording that was in there was meant to just say that we don't intend to take kids who are 18 or older right the only thing that we would be doing is taking someone who's prior they may linger a little longer to get their GED I don't think that we were going with the scenario that somebody's never been to high school and they're starting fresh we would have to have some other kind of plan for that right that's not the way the cop is written okay you know what I mean so it's like I just look at it because you're going to have 10 year olds there and see if you've got someone that's going for their high school diploma they could be 20 plus it's kind of a situation where you got to really be careful well we well we would you know what all of our regulations and licensing requirements is going to take care of that I mean we have very strict regulations about what age ranges of kids can actually live together in the same facility okay so it's gonna yeah it's gonna get all taken care of through our regulations and there's no way that there's not going to be regulations around keeping a 22 year old because they never started High School the state's not going to let us do that okay yeah just questions I got okay I'm fine thank you thank you Michelle did you ever find out how old your license went up to for ages we had a conversation once before about what you're licensed to treat and up to what age um yes it was the it was what they're referencing I think Jack said the license was 10 to 19. okay yep yep so actually you wouldn't even be able to treat right that that would default it automatically we can't keep somebody past 19. okay yeah thank you thank you is that it yeah yeah further discussion I got a quick question too oh Jack you might be able to help me out here Nexus has agreed to pay for that special assessment on 187 is it I'm curious 189 or 189th one of those Road Improvement things did they ever did the city ever um assess any of the resonance on those roads at all the residents on the North side had been assessed but they have been deferred until the property is either developed or sold so this is going to take care of all of that for the residents so they won't have to they're going to be taken care of that's correct okay that was my question thank you good question there's no further discussion let's have a vote on approving resolution 2023-54 proving the conditional use permit for Nexus so moved second all in favor aye opposed none heard passes unanimously Adam 4.0 resolution 2023-56 payment and lieu of taxes agreement with Nexus Diversified Community Services the vote for the city's participation in the conduit Bond financing for Nexus was approved at the July 24 2023 city council meeting pending approval of a payment in lieu of taxes agreement along with an amended conditional use permit the conditional use permit was addressed in their previous agenda item and approved Nexus has agreed to enter into a pilot agreement with the city and pay twenty four thousand dollars per year with an annual 2.5 percent increase in payments regardless of their revenues this agreement was replaced the previous cambia payment formula be specific to the Nexus operation and cover the city's costs for services to the property the pilot payment will be approximately a 500 percent increase over the amount that was to be received from cambia hills 24 000 payment is in line with the tax scenarios that are exhibited in attachment for scenarios one and two in your packet this payment would cover the cost of Public Works law enforcement fire and other supporting city services they were experienced with the operation of Camby Hills during their operation between April 1st 2020 and May 1st 2021. City councils requested to approve resolution 2023-56 a resolution approving a payment in lieu of taxes agreement with Nexus Diversified community services for the property location at 900 189th Avenue Northeast pin number [Music] 31-33-23-11-0001 East Bethel Minnesota Anoka County as a dividend attachment one of your package without rereading everything I moved to approve it a second now you have to say all of that but Okay resolution 2023-56 all those in favor discuss it here first oh I'm sorry I got a question page 22. third paragraph down Jack did our attorney go over this or did he write this he wrote this really yes okay I got a question where it starts in addition to all the remedies available in the city in the event of default by the owner okay it says that the city May certify an assessment against such portion of the property what's that mean that means if there's default then we may assess that back to the property or the subsequent property owner this is a requirement that Anoka County wanted in there because if there was ever a default they didn't want to be seen as having to collect on that so it falls back on us to do a special assessment on the owner whether in receivership or the future owner that requires a property okay because I mean when they say portion that really doesn't say you know what I mean what communism classroom you know what I mean that's why I look at it when it just says a portion of property well a portion I think in this case and I do have Eric's number here if we need to call and he's out of town tonight but I think that just refers to the the portion that's outstanding on the balance that's over the city okay because then if you go down a little farther too when you've got the uh interest and penalties for say late payments it says that we have the right to collect this or whatever but there's no amounts so say if they've all been relate how do we say okay now you always yes it should be rolled out every year there's a payment schedule shows when they make a payment and they're sent what the balance is what the interest is every year after that's done I understand twice a year so this is for late fees like say they didn't like most the time when you write stuff up like this anyways in my opinion the way I've done it you have like five days grace period you know say like for this is for their 24 000 say use that for an example 12 000 say they're late it's supposed to be May 15th they don't pay it till May 20th or don't pay it at all shouldn't we have some kind of figure in there say okay no this is going to be a late view 100 bucks 200 or 500 whatever and then so much a day until you become current because otherwise this thing doesn't say nothing well generally what this would do would follow the County's policy is what their late fees are okay but it's not in here and it doesn't say that so I mean if I was looking at this I'd be like well you guys don't have any numbers any sense that we should have that well we we could definitely put that in there that could be conditioned I think we should because otherwise as the owner of that company which I would look at it too and go well you guys don't have a number there 10 bucks you know what I mean yeah I understand I understand what you're saying and uh please do that we can add that or whatever yes could we make that conditioned on approval of this though so we can get this done and as long as well I think it's one of those deals where it's it can't be ascertained in advance the amount or the late fees and all that and so it just reverts to General law in place of the time I really do I thought I think it's one of those things you don't have to stipulate in advance it would just it would just be in accordance with the facts at the moment if it happened you know okay you know what I mean so who determines that the parties to the deal right but like I said there's no numbers and also right that's what I'm saying you couldn't ascertain those in advance that's what I'm saying you wouldn't know in advance what they're going to be so you can't well I know that lay out all the conditions that's why I figured they should be there you know what I mean because otherwise but I'm saying you can't know them in advance that's what I'm saying so you how do you put them there if you don't know what they're going to be in advance that's what I'm saying we do we should decide what they are going to be well it depends on the conduct of the people in the future you know whether they're delinquent in part delinquent in full you know whatever it might be um make sense to me though well in legal in legal stuff you can't predetermine every possible condition you when it comes to late fees you can you decide when you're doing a contract type thing you decide like say you're late fee you're late even five days grace period six day you owe 500 bucks late fee well yeah but I mean I I think it would be overwritten I'll put it that way I'm just giving you my opinion right yeah right but I mean I'm just trying to cover us as a city too in that so we have some recourse if something did happen hopefully not yeah but that's my opinion of that is there a policy that the county has already on this there there is they have a policy for late fees do we know what it is I'm not sure what it is but that's generally what we follow you sure no no well don't listen to me I tell you guys that all the time don't listen to me that's all I got is there any further discussion you guys sure okay well then I'm gonna repeat it for a resolution 2023-56 a resolution approving a payment in lieu of taxes parentheses pilot agreement with Nexus Diversified community services for the property location at 900 189th Avenue Northeast I won't repeat the pin local property in East Bethel Minnesota all those in favor say aye aye opposed none heard good so a long time getting there but we got this far anyway so that's good thank you for your for working with us on it appreciate it say hi to Margaret for us thank you okay difficult to get the words we can reduce our cameras yeah well that's what we want to do anyway in general are those your crab apples Mike what are those yeah oh that's for them yeah yeah okay let's uh call to order the hmm August 7 2023 work meeting of the East Bethel City Council make motion to adopt tonight's agenda excited thank you all those in favor say aye aye opposed none heard thank you Kevin the continuation of discussion of the 2024 preliminary budget overview on May 10 2023 the city finance committee met with City staff to review and discuss the 2024 preliminary budget the finance committee also discussed the city general fund balance the actual city financial performance for the priority year in the city's debt service requirements concurrent to the finance committee meeting the base budget was submitted to department heads for preparation of their individual budgets on July 5th 2023 City department has presented their Department budgets to city council since the July 5th meeting City Council July 5th 2023 city council work meeting in Oakland County Sheriff's Department updated their 2024 long con enforcement contract estimate from 1 million two hundred and seventy five thousand one hundred fifty eight dollars to one million three hundred and ninety one thousand nine hundred nine dollars or a hundred and sixteen thousand seven hundred and fifty one dollar increase over what was initially provided this new amount has been updated and included in the preliminary budgets the 2023 law enforcement contract amount was one million two hundred and seventeen thousand eight hundred and seventy eight dollars making the 2024 increase at 14.3 percent represented from the sheriff's department are here tonight to present the law enforcement contract for discussion with City Council the preliminary 2024 general fund expenditure budget is proposed increased by 5 or 347 thousand dollars the expenditure increase within result and the corresponding Levy increase of 6.1 percent or 372 500 in order to balance the 2024 budgets overall the general tax levy Debt Service Levy Eda Levy and HR Levy would increase by 5.9 percent or the 372 500 dollars with us tonight is the sheriff's department is Paul linsmeyer who will present the 2024 city law enforcement contract Paul good evening Mr Mayor members of the council uh again for the record my name is Paul lensmeier I'm the commander of the Patrol Division and I prepared the the contracts of this this year you know two two months ago I prepared the initial contract and that came with a three percent uh wage increase which is was part of the deputies Union contract they had a two-year three and three three percent each year uh increase and the City of East Bethel was looking at approximately 1.7 percent increase above that three percent uh for the wages and so that's what uh Jack Davis had mentioned that was our preliminary numbers of 4.7 uh percent increase then the County Board reopened the deputy's contract and made the decision to ultimately give them a five dollar an hour increase August 12th so in five days they will get a five dollar an hour increase and then January 1st 2020 24 they will get an additional three percent increase basically the County Board saw that we were falling in behind with hiring and retaining employees if you've heard the slogan law enforcement contracts and wages are kind of like the Wild Wild West right now we just can't keep up in fact for a short time the deputies might be at the top but there's already Anoka County agencies that are looking to renegotiate their contract so ultimately we had to re I had to re redo our our contracts the original 1.7 for maintenance of the squad cars our body worn cameras all of that remained the same the only increase was ultimately nearly a 15 increase in wages uh so ultimate ultimately the final number is a 14 increase uh as Jack Davis had mentioned uh regarding the contract so as we're looking at that again it's something that's somewhat out of our control uh when we initially did the the numbers we uh we anticipated a three percent and maybe the debt the County board re-looking at contracts um once the end of their current contract is up but they did see a significant problem in our retention and our hiring and they made this change so ultimately that's what we're bringing to you tonight is a 14 increase from 2023 uh with overall a 15 increase in wages for for the deputies anybody have any questions now over the weekend I had to talk with a couple deputies talked with some other people that kind of went over what happened I mean initially the 14 was kind of a shock because where'd that come from you know I went back watched the tape with uh the sheriff last year and three four times in the tape you hear three percent three percent three percent and then it comes up 14 well then talking with a couple of the commissioners and whatnot and you know I I gotta I gotta go with them I mean I know that law enforcement it's it's tough to keep anybody anymore especially with some of the little things going on you guys are almost fighting a losing battle indeed and you know I describe it as an arterial bleed is that what we had and the the County Board really needed to put a tourniquet on it you know they only addressed deputy and detention Deputy wages so uh our sergeants our detectives our lieutenants and commanders uh all did all are looking at a three percent in 2024 um in fact some of our deputies have have Inc have actually bypassed some of our sergeants right now and pay with this new contract but again the the biggest thing that the County Board is my understand that they wanted to do is just stop the hemorrhaging from this hiring issues that we that we've been seeing we were down 10 deputies at one one time without any any any hole you know we used to have you know 50 60 candidates you know years ago when I hired got hired uh there's 300 you know and now we may get five six um so it's a really tough Market this puts us back in the in at least competitive uh for a while which is a good thing for all of our contract cities in Anoka County but it does come at a cost well again that was that was my big question and so I asked around knowing that somebody was going to come tonight but when you talk to the deputies and a couple of the Commissioners and they explain it I mean yeah okay I got no problem with it guys any uh other questions or comments so these wages that five dollars an hour when was that again August August 12th August 25 days and that's going to go to all the deputies correct and okay yeah so we have a seven step uh total top Patrol and top Patrol is 4443 right now it'll jump to 49.43 and then in January 1st it'll be 50.91 and that's what is reflected in the contract numbers Okay the reason I keep asking questions is I don't want to hog the time but I have questions um obviously it's a big surprise to us it's a big budget item it's a big it's 1 6 over 1 6 the bar City budget um does does your budget include Blaine and Rapids are they entirely separate budgets completely separate yeah so this is just for everybody but Blaine in Rapids this is just for anybody in Browning so just the deputy so it doesn't include Anoka City anybody that has their own Police Department it does not include okay and our in our case we we have what's called 36 hour coverage can you explain what that means that total number of Menos per 24-hour period yeah so basically in its simplest form we have six deputies assigned to East Bethel three of them work uh each day and so we have a 12-hour shifts one runs from six in the morning till six at night and then we have a power shift that runs from 2 30 in the afternoon until 2 30 in the morning and then we have a night shift from 6 PM till 6 a.m so that encompasses 36 hours in in 24 hour period okay okay maybe you can explain this I've tried to explain to people but I think the last time that I was involved in this we have three deputies but they don't necessarily if I call from my place I may not necessarily get an East Bethel Deputy I might get hand over make it Oak Grove Lynnwood but lynnwood's only got one anyway very rarely I mean the majority of the time you will get get these update that comes into the city right we get a major incident you know a natural death we're in East Bethel deputies tied up yeah we'll we'll usually bring the first call for help is our County Light Services we have one uh Deputy on the east side of 65 and one on the west side of 65. and so then they will come into the city at some point uh based on calls for a service we enter what we call zone defense right we basically look at where the calls for service are where we have tied up resources and we fill in the blanks the nice thing about our new CAD system we've got a map where every Deputy is and we make sure that that all of our areas are covered within especially you know as significant crash on 65 you're going to utilize both of your deputies along with the county-wide CSO is probably going to be there along with the the uh the county light car on the east side or west side so you're tying up a lot of resources and so in that case Linwood might slide over to cover the east side of your city or Oak Grove might come in and cover the west side okay how do you figure 7.6 deputies how is that figured it's actually figured on per eight hour day you you get uh we assign or we charge 1.68 puppies what that covers that covers vacation time sick time filling in when when that Deputy isn't there so we know that our deputies have Flex time off uh they also have time on Deputy because of the schedule in the event that um that Deputy isn't here we're able to fill it in without having to pay overtime every time the para calculations are obviously pretty huge and so is health insurance are all those tied to the base salary somehow a function of those periods I imagine huh yeah so if you look at the Public Employee Retirement yeah benefits for sworn those are all covered many of those are State uh State mandated uh numbers at a specific percentage so an example is para for sworn because 17.7 percent of your of the cost um the Medicare 1.45 severance package 2.70 so all that's a certain number that's either state or common driven and health insurance is just a group policy same policy as everybody else who works for the county or yeah and actually it's that's one of the benefits of working with the county because of the the mere size yeah it's pretty good at a better rate yeah now there's an old saying trust but verify and all that kind of thing it's uh I don't know if Reagan came up with it but he's usually credited with it but uh you know the the administrative cost allocation is pretty large too and I had a conversation about all this with with uh Arc Anoka County commissioner Julie Preston and she gave the the same explanation of the area uh salaries and the ability to recruit people and all that and which Blaine's up to throwing money to everybody in Golden Valley a ten thousand dollar signing bonus and all this stuff and uh I just you know when I saw that administrative cost allocation to of over 130 Grand it's like it's it's all you know it's all in a black box as far as We Know yeah so if you look at the administrative costs basically it's 10 of the salary the the Personnel costs yeah and so in what you're getting with that you're getting supervisors you're getting um Lieutenant Peters you're going to need um you're getting our human resource our accounting uh you're getting the backbone of Anoka County with the county attorney defending us you know just all those components that the record staff uh that you know type all of our reports non-variable costs yeah it's really um the economy of scale is great uh when you when you buy into the Enterprise insurance office contracts but that to pay for those Services as well you know from our standpoint we're already you know pushing the uh the levy envelope and uh you know from our standpoint if we reduce it to 33 hours or 32 hours or something like that looks like the only way that we can keep things under control without our without and I'm going to have a question for Mike shortly about what the projected revenues are based on property taxes given the blow up and home values you'd think the property taxes would be well I know they are over in Lake Beach they're blowing up pretty well uh if I was going to appeal my property tax valuation until my neighbor went ahead and sold his house for about 300 000 more than I thought it was worth and I said well no point even going to the meeting after that uh but anyway um we're faced with some tough choices for sure I mean I I understand you have to do what you have to do to recruit people but it creates a problem for us that's just the way it is you know unless unless I know County wants to give back more of the property taxes to us we won't say a word you know if you're about from 36 hours of coverage to 32 really caution you on that just because at 36 yeah at any point in time you have two deputies covering this large city with a major major highway coming through it there's a lot of that's a lot to ask of one extra one it's a real distasteful option trust me you know last year we was a you know easier uh cost uh we also have reduced the cost of squat cars we're extending the life of them you know for the 24-hour car that runs 20 you know every day all day long we push that off to two years a replacement versus one our the 12 hour car we push that from two to three we're really trying to do everything we can to be fiscally responsible in helping our cities and our contracts you know handle the increased costs you know body worn cameras they initially five years ago were eighty dollars a month per Deputy uh now five years later axon if you want to buy stock that probably a good one is 249 dollars uh per Deputy per month uh now of course that Inc that includes some technology that we didn't have before but everything yeah well you guys don't everything the cost of everything is going up yeah and we're no different we're stuck in the in in the in in the Crux of it as well and I just remind you we're not trying to we don't make money here we're just trying to provide a service I know Paul is a two-year contract an option and if it is does that represent any cost savings going to an extended term you know the under the previous administration uh Sheriff Stewart did offer a two-year contract I've uh I've talked with the sheriff and the chief and I've asked them not to provide that option and the reason is is that our Deputy contracts now have a clause in it that the County Board can increase wages at any time without any type of negotiation I guess I wouldn't mind if they want to increase my wages without a negotiation but that's in there and if we had a two-year contract um we it'd be very tough for us to honor something like this um two years if they jumped it higher than another three percent not to mention they don't have a contract in 2025 yet so I don't even know what that number I can know what it would be have you seen any impact yet of being able to offer people more attractive salaries in terms of people you're recruiting absolutely okay we've got uh we've got five uh being interviewed on Wednesday we've got one more next week we've got seven openings and we have backgrounds for every single one so it's it's appears to be working I spoke with a certain mayor of the community that might be a deputy chief in a different agency and they also have heard of the you know the salary you know increase for Anoka County and everybody's going back to the drawing board and more money there's no no different than Hennepin County that did this three or four months ago where their County board made an Abrupt change that's ironic isn't it yeah made a change we're making a change um and so you know again just trying to be competitive and like I said Anoka County is a great place to work you know we've got a lot of opportunities and uh and I think we're we're a great agency to work for it's just all when you look at the overall I think we were like we're one of the lowest paid Sheriff's offices and law enforcement agencies around it's really hard to get people coming in and especially young people that all they care about is how much money they're going to make and how much time they have off components of that you know even for us to get deputies nowadays with the younger generation to come into work overtime that's really not in their wheelhouse their days off they love their days off and it's almost like you know we used to say Sunday is a Sabbath day well every day that they're off is a Sabbath day they don't like to come in so it's just a different uh different generation but they have a Heart for Service when they're here and now we're competitive and like I said we've got most of our uh vacancies right now identified and we've got more people coming on so we're in a good spot well I think somewhat of a difference being that the sheriff's department didn't bring the raise up to the county did I mean it was the County Commissioners that said this is what we're going to do had the sheriff's department done it would have been a little more of a shock but well they don't want to lose people and we didn't say no yeah we didn't say no and you know again it is supported by us just in in the uh in the hiring challenges that we're having it is good to hear that it's having an impact a positive impact absolutely if it's a bitter swirl it was pill to swallow it's a little bit easier if you know it's going to be beneficial so it's we're not here to whine at you we're just doing it for free but no we just have to figure out you know the budget and so it's it's a reality thing so any other questions Mr lensmeyer Sheriff lensmeyer so last year at I believe it was that budget we uh removed uh csos from our contract to reduce it is there any other areas where we could reduce something without potentially affecting the service you're down to Bare Bones unfortunately you know pulling the you know even when you're talking about you know the things that we did with the body worn cameras that significant increase that we saw last year you were charged for seven months out of the Year this year you're charged with the full 12 and that's why the 1.7 percent increase was there taking that away you know squad cars uh it's a big hit with the largest piece of the budget is people right and so at 15 for wages and the wages are eight hundred and four thousand um well let's go 850 000 with overtime you know there's just not a whole lot of wiggle room after that you know one of the things that we you know I I'm not sure if the the council has identified where the money's the public safety money is going of course that's not a that's a Band-Aid fixed right but those are options that were just you know trying to let the councils know that you know this is what it is if that money can help get you through for a little bit of time I don't know did you expand on that I'm not sure I'm tracking well each City got a certain amount of money in public safety right um from the government right and I'm the state government amen into the cities right and so that can be used for Public Safety contracts those increases that could at least offset it this year and I'm not sure how long those those funds are good for but at least you'd have kind of a Lifeline there we've received nothing or no notification on that do you have the numbers well that seems like an area that we're we're completely missing out on there why would that be I don't know it's based on your population yeah the guests for Public Safety under what programs that come through Paul one site unless Derek look up them wait I'm going to put you on the spot but actually I can probably we can the in the email I think there was a website for it um let's see here sorry always harder to find something when you're you know of course well we could come back to that we could we can move on with other questions about our budget and give you a chance to look for that yeah okay including anyone who's a resource on how to access it in other words grease our sides so we can slide up to the trough with all the other piggies but what are the monster well it's a significant amount of money oh yeah 500 what is allocated to the city of East Bethel really wait a minute what to allocate where's that come from Derek really gee this seems relevant to this subject today yeah yeah oh sweet yeah under uh State file number 1811 -1e well do you know how and I we can talk to you know other towns but do you know how other people are handling accessing it do they use particular people or Greek you know really on top of the program or what or is it already set aside is that what you're saying so it just sits there well set aside to put it it's waiting to be put in these accounts an example is Anoka County the sheriff's office is getting 4.1 million dollars um that should take care of that and actually if you look at the website you mean these numbers you got here are after you get the 4.0 always can't be used for for buildings but it can be used for right right attention well that seems that seems uh yeah and I don't know how long it because you have to use it you just gotta imagine a couple years so in the event that the offset well I'm pretty sure we could use it up this year yeah we will follow up on that first thing tomorrow yeah I would put that at the top of them Mike and your to-do list yeah wow glad you asked that question no so you know and that's why we're here is that you know that was one of the things that we we bring up to the um certainly that's a lot of money there's a lot of needs right Public Safety whether it's just sheriff or um your fire department or or whatever right but take a look at those those numbers and certainly if that can help you meet that obligation without cutting services that would be our ask of course well yeah and you can you can follow up make sure we have the information I have some direction as to how to go about applying for this or whatever we'll have the process outlined at the council meeting next Monday okay good deal thank you thank you for uh figuring that up for Brian asking the question yeah stimulated it anything else for these gentlemen okay well thank you very much for your time thanks being a bear of bad news Derek thanks a lot it's not your fault Derek um you talking about Lynnwood or Columbus or what well thanks a lot thanks guys thanks thank you with that I think we left off on our budget discussion after the department heads proposals um we can do this one of two ways we can go with the remaining budget item by item or if you have questions directly you want to just start asking we can do it that way whichever is your preference anybody got an opinion about that well we got a few questions let them rip well for the information systems Metro inet I'll just give you an example here Finance it's 11 500. um each department is spending probably that at least that much how can it be that much money I mean if you got eight departments times you know I've only paid over a hundred thousand dollars for yep internet yep so it actually doesn't go to internet um it's uh it's a combination of a few different things actually you're getting lumped into those lines and again we don't have a department that says it so what happens is when the bill comes in we actually allocate it to each one of the Departments so Finance admin Planning and Zoning Etc so we pay Metro inet it's going to be in your budget 2024 budget it says 87 000 and then that's get allocated back to each one of the Departments um within that line item too so it's not only Metro in it but they also we are we utilize their phone system as well so within their it Support Services there's phone um and then then you're right on the first the first comment was there is the internet through Anoka County that's also lumped in there too so but again because we don't have an I.T Department when that bill comes in it gets allocated to each one of the different uh departments that here at the city and it depends on users it depends on computer count it depends on email accounts Etc how it gets allocated another question um this is under the Staffing I'm not going to just pull any Department because it's pretty much under all of them provides for three and a half percent Cola salary increased for three employees and step increased for one is that automatic every year there's just a three percent because that each department has and I I've still never been able to figure this out is built out for the same employees but in different departments how has that broke down or how how do you determine right yep so each employee is allocated to a specific department and that's where they get coded to so for example I'm coded to the finance department so again the the wage increase or the cola that you speak to is pinned back to what the Union contract was approved at right and then each one of the Union employees gets that 3.5 percent and then historically we also give that to all non-union employees so again within each department you have specific employees that are assigned to those departments and then as far as if they get step increases we have a step system here 1 to 16 in grades each one of those positions is classified and assigned to a grade and then as you move up the grades your wage increases so right but what I'm looking for is you look through here and I'll say when Colleen was here her name showed up in all kinds of different departments his building that department for her services and there's I suppose all of them maybe all the employees do that how is that determined I mean is there yeah we actually got away from that so every employee is just assigned a one department now because it got to be a little bit confusing right because if you were to do that for me for example I would have a little bit of an allocation going to finance a little bit going to admin right right so what we do instead of that again we only did it for a couple of different employees anyway when we kind of started that so we've just went to a method of you're allocated to one specific department so whatever your primary department is if it's finance and that's what you're getting allocated to the only time we actually separate out what your you know your your function versus what uh you know some other Duty that you're you know you're completing is with your Enterprise funds or your HR and your Eda and those are those transfers back so again we do a we kind of do a you know a snapshot look at those things at the beginning of the year so I'll sit down with Nate and I'll say you know Jerry is basically the lead you know utility operator how much time does he actually use going and going and servicing the water system and the sewer system and then we we do an allocation on that but we don't actually code any of his time for the water or the sewer fund we do a transfer back to pay for those services so all of his time is actually getting um coded to the street department and then the water fund actually has to pay for his time through that transfer well that brings me to a question on the Eda hre why bother to put money budget money form if it's getting transferred back into the general fund it's a good question right so essentially there's services that are being provided by staff in your general fund right in order to basically run those those different uh those different funds so in order to show that there's a cost there you're you're basically transferring that money in order to cover those services well if you don't do that transfer and you just lower the HRA Levy down then you basically have to pick it up in the general fund anyways so it's kind of a budget neutral type of uh item but it is showing the true cost to run your HRA though it's a good for resource allocation yeah to account for resource use yeah and then the the important thing on that is it might be budget neutral for the HR and the Eda but it's very important for your water and sewer because those funds are not again driven by a property tax lady those are driven by user fees so if you didn't do that for the water and sewer fund you'd be basically giving your you know your admin costs Services away for free yeah right and then your water and sewer customers wouldn't be paying for that you'd um like Mr lensmeyer had said you know those overhead costs you know your HRA to tap into all those things for your water and sewer funds you have to pay something and then those costs are then picked up by water and sewer users well the first time I ran and got in uh that's about Jack came in I don't know a few months after that probably and at that time we had a 750 000 lawsuit against the county to recoup our HRA money and the next year the legislature changed the laws and so that didn't nobody else could do it but it was my understanding and we had talked back then because everybody was complaining about the west or east side of 65 it looks like crap you know these are Main Street and then there was talk about helping them clean it up new roofs new siding whatever it was going to take to get rid of those blighted areas and that's pretty much what the HRA is supposed to do is help with infrastructure from a well sewer standpoint to help people get up to Snuff to get rid of blighted areas how much of that actually happens so excuse me let me put a not to help developers with infrastructure but the residents themselves right so if you look at the specifics of the budget right now for the HRA there's a 77 000 Levy and then 30 000 of that is going to support admin functions so there is forty seven thousand dollars available to do those types of functions now in the past we've had a few different projects that I've actually used some of those funds the in what you're referring to Bob as far as correction of blighted areas like on the east side of Highway 65 all those business owners were contacted about their interest in participating in that with some match money uh and nobody at the time was willing to take advantage of anything and essentially that money was used to do that service road that accesses Cedar Creek Senior Living to stimulate senior housing so that's why that qualified for HRA funds but that wasn't a blighted area and it's it's it did more to help a developer that put the building up than to help the residents in the city I mean yeah it doesn't have to be limited to the blighted area it can be done anything to improve housing stock or housing in the city for those that qualify this is one thing that qualifies for that funding is there any kind of a balance sheet or financial statement for the Eda as to what the expenditures have been versus what's been taken in yep I mean just just for my own information you don't have to get it so yeah every single year obviously when the financials are audited there's a income statement and a balance sheet that kind of Chronicles the cash balances for the Eda and then the income expenses so anytime you would like to see any of that stuff I can forward that on to you so if you would like to look at you know three or four years past I can definitely afford that idea but it's also it if you wanted to drill into the actual audit book and go through those 110 pages that is buried in there too if you want to well I think that books available on the website as well yep if you want something a little bit more easy to read I can send it to you as well though so I bet that's just uh no I studied business finance okay I'm pretty up on that um yeah that's about all I got I guess for now somebody will jingle something loose huh the rest of you got anything I got a question is it the same with like your software for each department I've noticed it's all over the board but it's big chunks here every year yep software is going to be different because that's going to be specific to each one of the Department's needs so for example in the finance department we run on a system called Banyan so they have a yearly support fee that we pay and you're planning and zoning department they have a software package that's called permit Works where they need to have an annual fee so it really depends on what I guess Department they're in and what the specific need is that the the department has now that brings up a good point on equipment rentals like printers and stuff like that I think one of our printers is 7 000 a year and then there was it a two thousand twenty five hundred dollar service fee it's a RICO printer I believe that would be for the copying machine or the copy machine wouldn't it be just better off to buy the Diagon thing well the the advantage you get with the rental stuff is you get the maintenance on it so yeah but we're paying for that yeah but if you own it then you have to pay for the service guy to come out here and they can charge you almost an arm and a leg for it plus you also get immediate service too there's almost I can't remember a time we've been down for more than about six hours and we go through a lot of printing on that machine but we've looked at it and we think that's the best way to do it's the best value because the printer we have I guess if you tried to buy it would be I'm going to guess it'd be forty or fifty thousand dollars how the service works is right now we're being charged x a flat fee per month and no if it breaks down no matter what the repairs are that flat fee covers it covers the repair person covers the parts Labor uh versus if we bought it and it breaks down we don't know what an expense could be well but then you can be like going to Best Buy where you'd buy an extended warranty programmer I'm just asking I mean I just see it as a lot and that brings another question Tim brought up about the licensing some of that licensing is pretty outrageous every and that's every year that we pay that what are we paying for I mean is it upgrades is it it's a combination of things so again specific to the Banyan software which is extremely cost effective because there's a whole Suite of different things that you can get with that software specifically but there's also a whole bunch of different uh accounting softwares out there that are a lot more money so this is the most cost effective program that I've seen and their upgrades basically and updates so essentially every month there's going to be little tweaks they make and we have to update the system and then anytime we run a new issue with uh something just goes wrong with in the accounting system they have a help desk basically that we can tap into so just a lot of different things if you in every little module that you want to buy you know we've upgraded things throughout the years especially when covet hit right where we had to go all the way to basically you know based working from home there's just things that you've upgraded along the way that now we've kind of just found as the best best practice so well it seems like every department has their own unique software 1500 I think one's five thousand one's fourteen thousand dollar one in here yes yeah that was kind of picture piqued my interest no and you're you're correct and some of that is specific to what some of our needs are part of it like in playing is the gis system which cost us six thousand dollars a year we have another one in public works called the scada system that enables us to control the water plant read and moderate from a remote location to check on it constantly uh as Mike said we've got Banyan in the finance department this is just the way it is in world of computers if you don't have the software you don't have anything to operate from well so you know you shook another nut loose good all right all the Public Works guys have cell phones are they City cell phones or are they their own personal that the city pays for it's still a combination so we gave everyone the option to move to their own personal cell phone so they didn't have to carry around two different phones and then some still wanted a city issued phone that we get through T-Mobile and then most have actually went to their own personal phone so so it's still a combination so what pays for Kevin's uh shouldn't he have a phone for the fire department he can get one if he wants one all right if I'm not gonna show up and help put the fire out I don't need a phone what wasn't there an app that would tell where the fire was who was responding with all the details of it isn't there some kind of an amp at the mirrors I know I had a pager when I was there yeah you you can get that if you want it somebody asked me I'll say contact Chief Sano he knows more about than anybody else all right all right now I'm done all right now I'm now I'm gonna ask some questions I've been patient being a simple dimple I think in terms of Revenue expenditures and other you know kind of that kind of deal I noticed that the property taxes on the new version property tax revenue under revenues is at seven percent increase now instead of five and uh I was going to ask you about that just uh what made you bump it up just curious yep so essentially the only change that we made from the last budget was that police that increase to the Police contract so as any expenditures go up the only Revenue source that we can tap into in order to balance your budget is your property taxes so but you're not doing that based on a levy change you're based on a value of the housing nope I'm doing it on a levy chain you are doing it okay all right uh gambling up 167 percent just that's the pull tab stuff yep and you know we can go back and forth on that but there's a lot of history so yeah it just caught my eye because it was such a big difference yeah yep and again it catches everybody's eye because of the percentage but essentially we went to a different form of how we collect the gambling money we went from a tax to this contribution method so we don't have a huge history to really pin down how much we're going to generate kind of a dark game yeah yeah and you don't again during covid right you don't want to pin your budget on gambling Revenue unpredictable oh you know it's pretty unpredictable so we've already made about 40 000 this year um so again we've kind of pegged it to 40 000 but again you just never know the the you know the clientele's appetite for gambling moving into 2020. speaking of appetites have you guys started pushing around numbers on that weed Revenue just a munchy munchy franchise alone ought to be enormous [Laughter] 1023 budget for gambling is 15 000. so we yeah you know we kind of completely missed the boat on what we thought would come in it's 40 000 so it's pretty robust still with what um you know with the gambling that's occurring in 2023 so and the interesting thing about that is our gambling revenues sparked when covert hits and they've remained High even though we've changed the formulas for collecting that and now we get 10 of the net before we get three percent of the gross so it's been a huge change but the revenues have gone up even though we're collecting less which allows the people who get the money to give it to their people put it into use more funds to use wow Cemetery Revenue up 50 percent what do you know that we don't know exactly you know that's Carrie's Department in some of the trends I mean we averaged about 10 000 the last two years we're already checking out the age of the population right so okay yeah we thought 7 500 was a nice little bump for that line item going from five thousand to seventy five hundred but how about interest earnings up three hundred percent yep so again what the heck have you been doing in the past if they're up three right so I said average of what I think our cash balance is going to be throughout the year and then I take a forecast of what I think the interest rates are and I kind of multiply the two together and that's the number I think we can we can get so so you know we we've gone from getting like a half a percent interest to five percent especially over about the past four years so that makes a huge difference and could you repeat that please we've gone from getting about a half a percent interest on our Monies to about five percent we just switch to T bills no it's there they're laddered out in CDs and other instruments yes well that's good that's a proper way to handle the money yeah um we already we already talked about that uh you know the the unionized employees have typically or by practice whatever raise they got translated to the non-union in place what would be helpful for us to know is who negotiates the union employees salary where is that where is that negotiated and by whom I I negotiate that and then my salary at the innocent my city council on an increase okay I can repeat that again I do the negotiations and I'm exempt from that and city council then is at the pleasure of giving me that increase or whatever they feel is appropriate okay but uh so literally this the city is negotiating the salary for the union employees which then winds up being the staff's own increases that's typically what it's been my practice you know okay okay I always wanted the answer to that question I never knew it before and just for the record here it shows a six percent increase in the city council and I notice you guys got do's and subscriptions and professional fees lumped in there and that's where the increases are now I don't know who's looking at all these things you got subscriptions to but I know that I've I have absolutely no interest in looking at Minneapolis St Paul magazine and whatnot do you uh not that it's big money but I just wondering if we might be able to couldn't call a few of those Publications down you know or are you reading all of them I'm like you I read several don't read any of them but they are part of the other subscriptions we pay like for our league of Minnesota cities Jews carry on that's part of what comes with it Phil they will not allow us a deduction for that I noticed that the legal department is proposed increases nine percent have we got a great explanation for that probably the biggest explanation is that these are these are on the retainer right or is this the well total estimated cost uh that's the total estimate because it's the prosecution in the civil as we progress and we all know we're in such a litigious society today that there's a lot of things we have to check out legally a lot of things the council wants to check out legally and these add up pretty quickly on the legal side when we're paying several hundred dollars an hour risk management is up 10 percent yep so that's what's drive on that one yep so again that's for your general liability all your property and all of your vehicles so again we basically don't have any new stuff it was the value of the underlying average value of the underlying assets goes up so does the risk management exactly okay fire protection up 12 percent I noticed on there that it shows the payroll for full-time employees is still 35. is that the number that's behind the the salary number because I think we're at like 27 or 28 now right um it's still we still budget for 35. okay the primary driver for that 12 increase for the fire department is that one proposed FTE position yeah so again if that's taken out of there that new position then you're back down into three to four percent and that's I mean that's going to be primarily paid for by the safer Grant is my understanding if if we receive it we should have received notice on it but we've got no notification yet as to whether it's been approved or not okay why did the engineering fee go down 25 percent yeah so again that is anything that falls outside of any kind of project that we have going on so any kind of Street project that we have going on that gets built back to those specific funds right so your street capital or your state aid Street Capital anything that you know we can build back to a developer gets built back to the developer so anything outside of that then is just strictly kind of General engineering and just to just to look at our two-year average for the last two years we're averaging about 15 000 so we've had you know being able to lower that by ten thousand dollars would be a good representation of what we think can we can lower it to so but again you just you just don't know that number offhand so in the Community Development Department the last numbers I saw had a projected 36 percent reduction does that seem realistic yup and the primary driver of that again is the elimination of the uh the planning position so that's realistically how long do you think that's going to happen you guys gave us a commitment to the end of this year but I didn't hear anything about 2024. well 2024 will give us an indication of where we're going to be in 2025. so it's going to be driven by the amount of business there is to do it okay uh under the Enterprise fund s that goes in the other category wire sales of water unchanged and Sewer only up twelve thousand dollars in 2023 to 2024 with all the pending like elevage and whatnot potential hookups to it you know so the way I budget your utility funds is I essentially take what the current customer count is right now right okay and I don't inflate that with anything that could be happening because I don't know when elevage is going to happen I don't know when these specific other developments are going to happen so I just go with what is going to happen so you tend to underestimate Yeah by underestimated and again we're you know we're in the sell and water business right but we all know that for some reason yeah but I don't know how much the consumer is going to use because it's based upon drought conditions and family size and all these things so I just Peg it to trends that I've seen over the last three years essentially through average use for the consumer but again that can drastically change depending upon if we have a wet summer then they're not going to be sprinkling their yards as much and then we're going to be not gaining as much revenue so this is really a high kind of high tide Mark right now for Revenue as far as water use so so in water Revenue okay this is related why is interest Revenue up thirty thousand dollars each underwater and Sewer between 2023 and 2024 budgets again it's it's higher interest rate climate and then we have more cash balance throughout the year so it's related back to the increase in interest Revenue correct yes that's where it comes from you know every month the city gets a chunk of interest and then that's allocated back to each one of the funds depending upon how much cash is in each one of those funds I'm almost done believe it or not why are fees for service expenses more than sales for water sewer and Ice Arena Enterprise budget which are you I gotta this is what I'm looking at is this the areas on page 67 67. part of it is yep expenditures the right page the question I wrote down was why are fees for service expenses up oh I don't think I said up okay up more than sales for water yeah Ice Arena that way have they increased more than the sales of the water sewer and Ice Arena just trying to understand the Dynamics in these spreadsheets is it so is it somewhere on the water fund it's on page 67 and it's under expenditures he's out of the arena or water that speeds for service the ice arena is 173 100 sewers 100 and or no sewers yeah 162.5 and water is 58 300. hey you got to compare 2023 to 2024 okay now I got them both up do you see what we're talking about not quite is it is that as a water fund or the arena fund it's under city of East Bethel Enterprise fund budget summary it has water sewer you know summary water sewer and Arena Okay so again this is just a snapshot of the revenue and expenses it doesn't really compare year to year this is just what the 2024 budget is for those funds um in a summary form [Music] so Kevin is your question why is the arena fund less than the water fund you know I had more why is the fee for service the fees for service that they're up more than the sales they increase more than the sales you know you have the stop line sales for each the difference in the sales is less than the difference for the fees for service at least when I looked at these before so you're comparing these net cash flows and inflows and wondering why they're yeah they're different exactly yep so again each one of them's got different funding sources so we're trying to accomplish different things in each one of them the arena fund the whole goal for the arena fund is just to break even and cover your operational costs and your depreciation so again that's where those user fees are set in order for the entire fund to basically break even and that's where this is zero your water and sewer fund again is we want to break this even from an operational standpoint but we also then wanna have the rates high enough where we can actually start to pay some of this depreciation too so when your equipment or some of the infrastructure goes bad we can pay for it so we use more of those net cash flow to cover the depreciation so we're still not covering it but we're we're covering a larger portion for um I guess the the water in the sewer fund okay and on the on the reserve capacity alone as have we reached the two million yet yep and that was something that we are going to bring you know Jack's got some questions into the Met Council right now and we're going to bring forward to the council in um probably the end of September so right now we haven't we have not you know we haven't met the the two million dollar uh uh threshold yet but it's looking more and more likely that we will meet that and that's what this 232 thousand dollars is is an actual payment on that loan then we will know by the end of the year whether or not we've met that goal or not we don't anticipate we're going to meet it and that will trigger that threshold and that long payment will kick in so I've got the questions into the Met council is winning 24 when it starts you know essentially what our payments going to be we have the opportunity to select the term on the loan it's a 2.74 and also too is when this kicks in do we go back to the 700 reduction in the Met Council Sac fee at that time or when the loan was paid off so we're waiting on those questions to be answered okay yeah so as of July 31st we had 12 Sac units secured and I think the in order to to not meet that two million dollar threshold I think it needed to be at 58 or so so right now 12 so we're going to need 46. by the end of the year before this will be um the two million dollars is met and kind of show you where we're at with that as well does that mean hookups Mike yep yep so again one Sac unit is essentially it's one house and then any type of commercial building that's where the Met Council has to do the sac determination and then it kicks out exactly how many Sac units it is so it could be more for commercial okay so again I think everyone has kind of seen this before this is the reserve capacity loan schedule and the interest rate on the reserve capacity loan is already fixed right correct yeah thank goodness yep at that 2.73 and then again as we kind of go throughout the year we update this accordingly and if we remained at that you know 12 units we'd be at 2 million will we be at 2.1 million which then would be the two million dollar cap and then this loan again the parameters aren't exactly set right now but this is one um you know example of how we could pay it off and that's where that 232 thousand dollars is coming from in your in your budget okay my last question is real simple compensated absences fund my understanding was we did away with the compensated absences is that true but there's still an outstanding obligation that's a great question so what we did well thank you well we did get about time I came up with one good one so what we did eliminate is at the end of the year you're no longer able to sell back your excess vacation right so that's what we did get rid of but again when an employee resigns or his a tenure is terminated he still he or she would still get their um vacation or sick time paid out and that's what that fund is set up to pay out unused vacation or six timer yeah unused vacation or sick time yep no you get to take it and you get paid for it so at the same time so what I always use for an example is for example if we had a fire chief that had 200 hours of you know vacation time that was paid out at the end of his tenure okay well that would be a dramatic increase in your budget or in your expenditure yeah but because we have this fund set up that actually covers it for that year yeah similar to a pension yep plan so okay thank you yep that's it for me thank you I'll let you two speaker you three speak and then I'll speak again better ask them so okay you covered everything excellently thank you only thing that I have is with the fire department their budget when I look through it I see a lot of questions that I need answers to who do I talk to about that like just for an example I mean I was on the fire service Tim was also so we have an idea how things are supposed to operate and we have some ideas on how we can reduce their budget who would I talk to about that to go about it if you want specific answers on the line items we can attempt to answer those tonight if you can't we can set up a meeting with yourself and Mr snow and you can go over that individually okay we'll just wait until that comes together because then I'll put everything together and then we'll have a meeting with you and Chief and we'll go over that okay thank you yeah for sure that's all I got anything else on the budget yeah I got a question on the ice arena well actually I might have a couple isn't that cell tower over there that at one point was making payments on the ice arena where do those payments go now general fund are they listed somewhere where it is just General it's it's it's in under your uh in your summary budget it's under site lease Revenue so they're not really you know what they're actually renting from us is the land on which the cell towers are so it's labeled as site lease Revenue so essentially it's at eighty one thousand dollars right now and it's in your general fund so is that just for that one or does that cover that one in the one at Public Works it covers both of them you know who owns the Ice Arena city of East Bethel I'm going to give you an update on how we came to own that oh I know I already came to him and 10 years ago eight years ago we had thoughts of just eliminating it and making that the new Public Works building but then elections came things changed and all of a sudden we're putting new flooring new Zamboni new bathrooms new does what we charge for that even come close to what the expenditures are the charges are less than the expense I mean the expenditures are less than the income we're in the black on that operationally and we do make a little bit more to cover depreciation but we've been putting money back on a cash basis correct including appreciation so on the money we've been accruing force and depreciation there have been some improvements required for that building so we've been putting some money back in there incrementally over the last six years there's been new Dash rewards there's the bathrooms are upgraded when the bathrooms were constructed in that building in the 90s it was repurposed fixtures that were put in there we've done some things we've repainted the building uh we've done some work to the exterior that was blocked they're having some problems with the block the corrosion and water damage to it we've done some roof repairs to it uh we've done quite a bit of work to it now it's about up to where it's meeting its needs for any future upgrades for the next couple of years so that thing is operated in the black since 2013. and that was after we took that cell phone tower Revenue away from that Bob uh that Revenue at that time was 34 000 a year which is going into the ice arena fund and we took that away and put that in the general fund well I was just looking at like the utilities and the gas and electric and well the fees to run it yeah that's so what it what it takes to run it we're still good yes in the black I mean I go to I've driven by there and gone by there in the wintertime seen the doors wide open I mean Gibson management apparently just not their money right well I don't know it's maybe as much as Gibson management it is the you know people leave the doors part of the problem we did have the new all the exterior doors replaced here I believe two or three years ago they were in bad shape so some of them may not operated correctly but uh they're supposed to keep an eye on those and keep them closed in the winter time all right did they get the new cameras in uh they're they'll work on that I would say it'll probably be another four to six weeks before they're installed um the only other thing there were comments made about Booster Days and how the city really doesn't put money into it but I think we put about well the fireworks 6500 I think I figured in the budget it was about ten thousand five hundred and labor and stuff for the public works guys and so for those of you that think the city doesn't okay and it's all done by the outside that's not true yeah you're you're correct there's a lot of in-kind Labor that goes in there for the setup to take down and also for Mrs Frost's time that she does and puts into the planning of that event right yep all right I'm done any other discussion questions or what the budget one question that we have is you know where do you want to be with this budget uh we need to try to get this to the preliminary budget approved at our September 11th meeting so we can send it to the county for certification uh there's some things that we can look at but we were kind of looking for some direction from you right now the levy increase is proposed to be what Mike um it's 6.1 percent for the general and The Debt Service Levy and then if you take all your levies into account it's 5.9 percent you know it's something we got to keep in mind is when Ken Tallman goes around this spring and does his assessments are this fall um I watched my home value go up and it hasn't changed since 1930. it went up probably 250 000 in three years and I had no Diagon well it didn't do that so we have to figure out something I mean I haven't seen him personally out to my house in over 15 years and you know I got three inch cedar siding single floor 800 square feet plus a big garage but that doesn't warrant next next year he's got my home value to 450 000 and there's no freaking way it's going to happen no way so I don't know do we have any kind of say about you know hey you got to watch what you're doing here because with this seven percent increase and then he comes along and slaps us with some exorbitant appraisals does do we ever monitor that my occurred I mean that's the I'll let you speak to them no we we don't the appraisal appraisal is kind of independent of that and you know he they their explanation for their evaluation is based on comparative sales uh the remedy to that is if you object to the evaluation is come to the city council and appeal your case yeah but you can only appeal so much because of one percent uh no if it changes I think the the thing is if the valuation of the whole city if it affects that over one percent that's as much as they can go but that's quite a bit of money when the valuation of the whole city is over a billion dollars well I mean I'm looking at it I got a neighbor that's took their property from maybe 299 000 up to 700 and some thousand dollars well that sure the heck didn't make mine go up that high no one is my maybe it did but if somebody wants to give me 500 000 for my house I'll take it I'll get a place out in the woods so there's got to be some way to regulate that I mean I don't and yes the levy is our taxes are based on what were being assessed is a big part of it the the the assessed value drives drives the levy as far as what we receive from property taxes right there's a lot of terms thrown around and I'm not sure I'm clear about it all I'd I'd like them better explained when you talk about a 6.1 percent you're talking about an increase in the amount of funds needed by the city to operate correct yeah which is different than when I think of the word Levy I think of that's like the total amount levied against the property in the city tax paying property I'm I'm strictly looking at it from a a property tax how much the city is going to Levy how many how much is there is going to increase right so you're talking about an increase in the the existing per diem or Prevail for what is it valorum perfect alarm that's a big word and the big 0.1 percent that doesn't mean necessarily your property taxes are going to go up 6.1 percent right because there's other factors that need to be taken into account before you can figure out how much your increases well and then there's also what percentage of that is what percentage the cities is of the County versus the school district and the City of the three people sharing the pot right and the other the other part is is what your value is doing in comparison to the rest of the Cities right because of everybody in the city's values are going up at the same clip then you're not going to be affected by you know any kind of fluctuations in your property value because we're just we're we're living this is kind of a fixed amount that's getting levied against the grand list against the grand list so even if we have a thousand more houses just pop up tomorrow right the city doesn't make any more money no it's not much it just gets spread it gets spread you know allocated more to those properties so you would pay less but the city is just going to generate this amount no matter what what is the percentage now the County versus the school district versus city of East Bethel I think you know we always say kind of in thirds right so a third is going to go yeah but that's right that's accurate right and it's not accurate anymore it's like 16 yeah the school district it's probably the school district is probably 15 to 20 percent yeah we're probably 40 percent and 35 I don't know if that adds up to 100 but that's kind of the ratio and for those that don't know a levy is a tax I've had people say ah just a levy his attack term as you think of the levy as the whole amount not just the increased portion of it and it's used to refer to the increase which always I found confusing maybe it's just me I don't know and the other confusing part is obviously the city's Levy is lumped in on that statement with everybody else rather than the first thing they look at is just the bottom line right but sure you really have to drill down onto each one of those lines and see where that increase is coming from so okay because the city Only controls that one line item right right as far I I can't speak for anybody but myself but I would like this to be a topic on the next two regular City Council meetings to the exclusion of some other things if necessary but I know we have to we have to drill this down tight whether it's on meeting of the finance committee or whatever we got to do but we want to we don't want to wait to the last minute to well we will we'll include this discussion the continuation this discussion on the meeting next Monday night yeah we just have to keep it in front of us we know we know what we want we want no increase and the chances of that are about one in a hundred so yeah if not even not even one in a hundred well there's one in a thousand be more like it but uh I'm glad you said that because you know as we even if Mike takes a 50 percent [Laughter] and the chances of that are less than one in a thousand what were you going to say Mike we yeah you know sometimes working backwards is a way to you know kind of exactly budget so if you give us guidance that okay we're really comfortable with a three percent increase or a two percent or anything like that then we can kind of work backwards to try to get there so if we have that number in hand then we can look at things to reduce your you know your budget increase or your Levy increase right so things that we've kind of identified that you could drill down that Levy increase is you could use some of your fund balance again last year we used 145 000 we've earmarked or we've you know projected you could probably use another 130 000. so you would have you could Levy 130 000 less again we still need to make a decision on that you know full-time firefighter position which is uh 84 000. illuminate but again that's going to be paid by the grant primarily correct isn't that the idea maybe but I thought it was conditioned upon getting that ground no that's that's amazing yeah I know but I thought the hiring was conditioned upon getting the ground that's what we understand too yeah okay because if we don't get the grant then we don't do it yeah and we don't get the grant that we can take that's already in the budget we can take that 84 000 out well I don't know what you guys think it seems to me if it's for the citizens of East Bethel which is who we work for if it's something approximating what the prevailing inflation rate is for all Goods on average you know whatever that is you know um it's it's palatable if it's way above that it's it's like what are you guys doing you know you're not doing your job so that's kind of my rule of thumb so around three percent if you wanted a number okay for me two two and a half to three percent because something I think we can you know explain to Residents who ask us and not feel like we're we were slack or stupid you know and that that that's one goal that we set back in 2014 when the city experienced a almost a 15 Levy increase and we tried to set things up there so incrementally going forward we would never have to go hopefully above three percent was that driven by the water sewer stuff just because of the timing of it was that that that's when the principle on those bonds kicked in yeah and that's when you were interviewed and said I don't know who burnt the biscuits or something I remember reading that article yeah okay I interrupted you I'm sorry well we'll go continue please but you know we can come up with some things some options to drill that down further and that's that's why we were trying to get some direction from you at least what you're comfortable with and we can start that meeting again I don't speak for anybody but me so what do you guys think so I think what you said is excellent three percent I agree and we we can come up with some proposals and suggestions on ways we can do that because our residents will understand the the sheriff's department budget increase was out of the blue I mean but nobody expected that and again it's that 515 000 is out there available yeah changes things then our Target will become two percent or one person yeah that's that's a true Game Changer yeah well I yeah I would hate to think that that's been sitting there all this time and we haven't even bothered to look at it but so in Jack for saying the preliminary Levy and or preliminary budget in September what was the date September 11th December 11th uh again I believe that would be that we are just setting it so that uh we're saying the number that we can't go any higher but we can still lower that's correct we can still lower that by when we approve the final budget in December so we don't have to have everything worked out by September 11th but we can certainly still be working on all the little little things and it it sounds like there's still a couple things in the up in the air with grants and other mysterious money that we maybe it would be really helpful to have that information some inkling on that by next Monday that would be very helpful so anything I can do to help in that process just let me know so I think we're off to a good start though have we exhausted the budget discussion process item four on our item three I guess it was on our agenda oh I had one other question I lied I did have one other question why are the year-to-date numbers in the in the budget only current to the end of May instead of the end of June or even the end of July ah they should be are you looking at the the the one I prepared for this meeting should be through July 25th so that was the latest I could actually get the book all completed and get it so many different spreadsheets right yeah so it's always based upon the time oh it was this one yeah it was just physical copy we had from the last meeting yep yep good so we're on to item four proposed utility extension 184th Lane two it says to Highway 65 Service Road in Briarwood isn't that supposed to be and 181st Street no it's just a Briarwood 181st will take it down to the Ham Lake East Bethel Boulevard border but it doesn't need with this proposal it doesn't need to go any further than that okay if it's to be extended further that would be something for a future consideration all righty thank you Kevin uh the owner of a nine plus or minus acre parcel at the intersection of Highway 65 and 181st Avenue which is this property right here this is 181st and this is Briarwood uh Mr Doug Osborne owns this uh he's expressed an interest in developing this commercially the size is currently not served by water and sewer and City service terminates at a point that's between this is the building where Snap Fitness is located and this is Highway 65 liquor there's an easement that the city owns and Sewer has been stubbed out to this point right here where the cursor is so these city services terminate approximately 1400 feet north of the site extension of the utilities to serve this area are part of the facilities plan that was incorporated in the comp plan and this area is inside the Metropolitan utility service area whatever option and whenever utilities are extended in this area consideration needs to be given to a sizing that could accommodate service to other adjacent areas that have potential for future residential and Commercial developments there's another property down here that sometimes may develop in the future so if there is a consideration to do this uh this should be size so that could eventually probably serve this area right here at a minimum in the facilities plan it was to terminate at this point right here at Sand Hill Parkway in Briarwood with a 16 inch water and a 24 inch sewer line but that was when the proposal was to eventually extend this line out to Briarwood down Jenkins Deerwood to 183rd across under Lake and eventually serve King Lake uh I think at the time that uh the queen Lake Area served there's probably going to be other means to address that issue I don't know that we can size the line for that in the future Lake was a pipe dream Jack no that's what I'm saying it's you know it's to get it out there with only potentially 240 customers unless you develop a system that served all the way around the lake and served the Ham Lake area and over in Columbus you still have to have a lot of grant money to cover a lot of the costs to make it feasible to do and pay for itself well they initially said they were going to run it across the channel the DNR said well forget getting permitting for that but actually there was a somebody who just was in office before that finally admitted that to put the sewer water around Lake really wasn't gonna happen well and then in the the there's several problems with that number one is you don't have a lot of connections between this point and when you get to Lake not enough to pick up and make up for about three miles linear distance uh you know the other thing is the cost the other thing if you're using assessment to pay for the project there's only so much you can assess their property you can only assess the value added to it and there's some places there that have million dollar homes and some that have fifty thousand dollar homes so you know getting assessments is going to be a very difficult thing to do it's also in a tight restricted area whatever you do you're gonna have to do complete Street restoration storm drainage the water and sewers going to be very expensive and so my thought on that is is if there's ever any water quality issues on Lake that demand that there be Sewer Service it's going to have to be looked at a different angle and that angle may be there's a little separate system over there that just serves that one area only maybe that's the cost-effective way I don't have the answer now because we don't have all the the parameters of the problem in front of us but I don't think this is ever going to be connected to this system I completely agree well in 2012 2011 2012 we had discussed putting a Central Station over on Lake Beach on a piece of property that the city owns and then try and work with it from that but there's many people that have Moon moved up into that neighborhood Jack they were told well just put tanks in the ground because we've got sewer water coming here in five years yeah and that's what they did so now they're pumping and they are the six seven eight hundred thousand dollar homes well and you know that this this to Lake Beach because I don't think this is a solution to serve it to run a bigger line down there at this time what what I'm looking for is to see if city council if Mr Osborne wants to do this uh well this box here is showing 180 first at the bottom yeah this is the bottom of the Box yeah there's 53 acres in here that could be developed probably residentially but now you were talking about running a Don Briarwood so that means no well what I'm talking about it would terminate if you run it down Briarwood that would be the future connection to serve Lake it would end at the T of Sand Hill and Briarwood yeah yeah so those two properties would be able to be served by it so the the benefits to this are mostly for Mr Osborne on the commercial development uh there's two ways that can be done it could be done with a lift station and a force main back up to this point or it could be done with the gravity sewer uh in looking at the cost a little bit further and getting some more estimates of gravity sewers seems to be the way to do it uh the question is if this were done just to service this area it would require a bigger line if you want to account for possible future development of this over here and if you're doing that then the city would probably have to pay for the oversizing in any depths but the city could recover their costs through trunk charges and future assessments to this property if and when it was ever developed so my question on this is that if we do this or if Mr Osborne wants to go through with this it would probably cost him a minimum of two hundred thousand dollars at least to put his own well and septic system in to serve the commercial side maybe even more at this time and he would be probably expected to pay that up front the other question is was would the city put this in and assess him for it for the remainder of the cost and what the city want to upsize the line to service perhaps another parcel at some time in the future and you figured just from just the yellow line would be 650 000. yeah that'd be 650 000 for like a 10 inch water and a 12 inch sewer yeah okay and that should be adequate to serve this commercial area and this 53 unit 53-acre parcel over here and it's estimated that probably under the current zoning not a PUD even in the current zoning there could be maybe 120 homes in here Mr Osborne that would be 120 sack units Mr Osborne is looking probably up to 40 or 50 sack units so could that proposed developable area also be commercial I doubt that this would be mainly because of its location there's a good possibility that this area right in here on Mr Osmond's property could be commercial the car lots here and if someone were to acquire that clean it up when you drive by 65 it would look like it's all Frontage on highway 65. but I think a portion of this Mr Osborne has is has hired a engineer to do some type of a concept plan for this property but he was hoping to do the commercial segment first he doesn't have any dates on anything or have we ever seen any proposals from him but he owns about 100 acres in here it goes north and ties in and abuts next to the golf course I'm not a big fan of building they will come as I've seen that over the last 10 years or more on off we build it they'll come if we build it they'll come well where the heck are they changed it so we build it they might come yeah it's kind of a conundrum Bob you know you don't want to get caught in something that never pays off the other side of that though is if something isn't there then nobody's coming the only thing that makes this one interesting is it's a short extension and there's ways to recover the cost all right now we're still essentially talking hypothetical once we get if Mr Osborne does have uh serious intentions and at that point the city can look at more seriously but from my viewpoint if Mr Osborne is serious and we actually do get something put together that it would be who the city to partner with them to put sewer and water down there but it would have to be with a commitment to do something by such and such a time that's the missing thing is with a lot of these betting on the come deals is there's no incentive for the property owner necessarily to act I I don't know anything about that like I said I was still hypothetical right now yeah but if we don't allow it and force uh a site there for septic and well but that can take up a whole site for commercial entity and you know or for a one that would be missing say if he can have three now he can have four yeah that that's one thing that wasn't figured in that minimum cost and I think I know that in the write-up it doesn't include the loss of land for putting in the private system which could be a half to a half an acre to an acre Maybe uh depending on how the sizing of it is and what the secondary drain field area would be is Craig the source of these estimates Craig gave me the estimate that's correct now the cost to do that I'll just to do that with the upsize lines to the 16 inch water and 24 inch sewer was a million dollars so uh that wouldn't be feasible to the property owner to have that assessed back to him I think what we we just had the one discussions Mr Osborne I told him that I would bring this before city council just to get some direction from them but if there is some direction to consider this then I think part of what we would be looking for him is his plan to Market this and I don't know we can actually get a commitment because he doesn't know how quick it's going to sell I do know that he is was offered to sell the piece of property down here on this corner where the city sign is about four or five years ago that was Dollar General's preferred side free special but he turned them down is that the one that wound up on the other side of 65. it probably was uh that that happened maybe a couple years after that but they were interested in this one at one time but I think what he was looking for was something more in the personal services stuff food restaurant type business that would go on this side would be more appealing to them because it's more accessible well what are elevage's intentions well elevage is in there clearing and grubby now and they will probably start their grading Within two to three weeks I guess was there any timetables set up by them as the yeah then they may developer they they have a schedule they they initially wanted to be in the crown by Fall to do their first phase which would be 55 units and the clubhouse and the pool and then when they finished that to start on their second phase oh but I guess my opinion of this is uh the I would be openly talks with Mr Osborne see what what can be brought forward and what can be planned it's not been set in stone right now but I think it would be healthy for the city talk with them you know that certainly doesn't commit us to anything to see what exactly what his next step is and what he's willing to do on this also foreign you guys have any thoughts you guys I mean Tim and Jim well no I think we should talk to any future developments I mean anybody who wants to come who wants to purchase land or anything like that or be a part of the city we should talk there yeah and whatever we do from staff in we're always going to show you that there's a way to recover our cost it's not it's reasonable and has a chance to succeed any further thoughts Brian Bob Cub Scouts are done huh you know we'll just let her go for a bit we'll see if we could sell that ice arena we can have a new Public Works building there you go yeah a place to put all that expensive equipment we got yeah hey Jack we've been talking a lot about the sewer systems and stuff all over the place tonight I have a question why is water that's hooked up to East Bethel sewer and water system costs so different in the different areas because it's built under two different things the whispering Aspen's water rate is much higher than the water right down here mainly because we had initially more customers there were some other Associated costs with that the lower customer base but what we're trying to do is equalize those rates we're getting closer it's it's a slow Movement we could actually we've even talked internally maybe about just say okay let's just it'd be a lot easier for us just to say it's the same rate but in order to pay off certain things we're raising some rates down here and trying to keep those costs up there lower it's something that we're constantly trying to get proposals on seeing how to do but it's one thing that we we have started narrowing the gaps there were certain fees that were associated with that up there they were no longer needed we did away with them when I was a radium remediation feed it was added on the water bill the rate increases up there have been negligible while these down here have increased by about three percent a year so there is efforts to narrow that Gap it's just not moving it may be at the pace some people would like to see well I'd like to see the narrowing of the Gap with the higher ones coming down to the lower ones not the lower ones yeah well the the three the three percent is what it's you know essentially covering our costs to provide the services okay so you know I understand what you're seeing and I agree with that 100 percent care I guess I just would reiterate but I think what Brian was saying and what Tim just said that we should always sit down and talk to people about their plans and I'm as red Ascent as anybody else on the bet on the come thing especially this time in the economy when I know commercial properties are having a tough time right now so it could be a while until you know so I'm not interested in pouring out a bunch of money hoping eventually someday you know that we we unfortunately we have a very real and continuing example of that not working out so you know that's I'm in the same boat with everybody else I guess well and and and I agree totally with that too but I think the important thing you're emphasizing too is we have a although Mr Osborne doesn't live here he's lived around here and done business in the city and is father did a lot of stuff but we have somebody that's essentially local that's interested in doing this so the least we can do to him is just sit down and talk and say okay here's what we might be able to do absolutely absolutely that's just minimum requirement all right we'll have we'll continue to meet with Mr Osborne and see what we can come up and give you a report on that thank you so I guess we'll move on to item number five staff report on the evolution of an ice arena this is what everybody's been waiting for everybody's glued to their computer at all I have I have a short version here which I'm going to present oh no but there's a longer this is kind of a summary history of the East Bethel Ice Arena in 1988 there was a group of volunteers from Oak Grove Saint Francis and East Bethel it formed the north Anoka County arena committee to investigate the possibilities funding for an ice arena to serve that area ah in 1989 there was five acres of land that was donated to this committee which is the site for the ice arena 6 Zone uh and this made the selection of East Bethel the site for the arena between those three cities in 1990 to 1991 they determined that Project funding was to come from in-kind volunteer labor and services fundraisers they were looking at a potential Grant from the county and it was proposed to the city issue bonds to finance the construction that wasn't covered by these other income sources during this period Anoka County approved a grant of 225 thousand dollars for the project there was an interesting stipulation in that Grant is if the three cities they all agreed to it they would never come to the county and ask for another grant for a nice Arena anywhere in this area uh with that the city agreed issue 640 thousand dollars in bonds with the bonds to be paid from revenues from the arena in order to issue the bonds and receive the grant the committee had to dedicate this site to the city so they would be the eligible applicant to repay the bonds the city leased the proposed facility to the committee and the lease payments were to advertise the bonds construction the project occurred during this period from 1992 to 1993 he along with continued numerous fundraising activities these Bethel lines actually donated twenty thousand dollars to the project team is was related to me there were jars with lids and slits on saying donate to the East Bethel Ice Arena fund and they were working very hard to solicit extra monies I do not know exactly how much they raised but it was a fairly significant amount uh the facility was started Construction in 1993 it was open February the 12th 1994 and it was operated and managed by this North Anoka County arena committee in the period from 1994 to 1997 though there were claims of unpaid bills from contractors due to construction issues IT services staff for the opening of the building this led to the threat of liens and lawsuits that could be filed on the building also during this time there appears to have been some issues of cash flow and revenue projections that were not met imagine that imagine that this appears to have been a problem that may have been initially minor became more of a problem toward the end of this period in 1998 the issues that serviced in 1996 and 1997 led to lease payments to the city that were unpaid and the city eventually terminated the lease with the north North Anoka Arena committee and took over the facility so at that time that's when we actually acquired it when they did that the North Andover County arena committee turned over all their assets to the city including Marcus quick claim deeds yes a city Arena managers hired in the city ran the arena with part-time help and assistance from Public Works programs needed between 1998 to 2006 the city operated in management during this period solely and exclusively from 2006 to 2008 the city contract the management of the operations of the Arena to the super rank in 2008 when their contract expired the super rank declined to renew their contract and the management was contract to Gibson management for a one-year period since 2009 Gibson name and it's managed to the re the arena during this period the city has bid this contract twice and both times received no qualified responses the contractor Gibson expires on July 31st 2024 and the city will seek proposals for this service in March or April next year so that's the short version thank you we acquired the Ice Arena has it ever been put up for sale at any time no and we there'd be several things that I'm advocating it part of the property is is they have a long-term lease on that that would be Society since the city got a grant on this there would have to be uh that would have to be looked into to see if that would have to be we looked at it like Bob said it was looked at one time discussed as a Public Works building but it may take more to repurpose that as a public person would need to build a new one so it's uh it's one of those buildings too you know it's kind of like Nexus it's a single person facility and it's going to take a lot of money but but again there have been lots of improvements made in it it appears that the Saint Francis Youth Hockey Association they're the ones that are driving a lot of this and doing a lot of volunteer work and they've done a lot of work here in the past couple years and my hat's off to them they have a very good group in there now and we just hope they stay that way because making certain helping things run properly they've restored the concession stand it's uh really a nice facility now and I think they made some money off of it we're making some money off their fundraisers so everything's going fairly good for us running that type of facility but in the long run the future of it's going to depend on how good the manager of that facility is and also what kind of relationship we have with our only two customers which is ISD 15 and the Saint Francis Utah Association as you all know that building has very limited use for dry floor beds because it's not air conditioned uh did everything from gun shows to surfaces in there but they just don't seem to be the draws anymore so maybe if there was somebody that could Market that a little bit better there may be some chances for some revenues for those sources but I wouldn't expect them to be too significant anybody have any questions well thank you for the resume of the history the I do appreciate it there's one other thing I'd like to just kind of give the council an update on is that uh [Music] I don't have a map of it up here but we're gonna have to start looking at long range other long-range solutions to to traffic in this Corridor area between 181st and Viking Boulevard oh yeah and I had a discussion with Denise Webster the city administrator from Ham Lake and Tom Collins their city engineer about a week or 10 days ago and I asked them if they would be interested in us Consulting and talking to vindot to see if we can get a Cooperative duel Grant to finish some of the gaps in this service road that didn't connect barking Boulevard to Crosstown which would give signalized intersection on the North and the South of this for people to get out of here The Cooperative agreement Grant is one that we've used before to get funds to do our MSA streets uh that's the one we use to get Sand Hill Parkway and they said they would be interested in exploring that option so is that extending Sandhill or is it using Aberdeen or Baltimore or something well in in this situation right here ham Lake's portion to go from 181st down across town and hours would go let me see if I can get something up here that's bear with me just a minute I want to make sure we go over this should have a Siri what what's this put this map up or no Alexis what is it Lexus Alexa serious Apple I think oh and uh yeah Alex yeah Lexus IS let me go to an Android or something I mean they're listening to us anyway Alexa that's what it is that's the in-home one's that time Amazon speaker thing yeah can you bring up the green stuff can't you Jack the real photo yeah you want the aerial yeah I would look up there so anyway this is 187th Lane this is where the holiday is this is where QuikTrip is on East bethel's part it would take it a minimum this road is stubbed out and dead ends here is to run it back behind these buildings tied back into here and then for Ham Lake then to run Does it include that but here we go to run the road from where 181st ends at the City Limits line down to this point across town their service road comes back here and that would tie in the traffic light here and enable this to tie into a traffic light here we've had some discussions with MnDOT in the past about a traffic signal at 187th Lane and while they didn't come out and say they wouldn't do it the last thing they want to do is put a traffic light there there's too many lights now yeah that's then you'd have would be lower two miles so we think there may be some inclination that MnDOT may be interested in this the cost for doing it would probably be more than we both could get together for one of these grants but since it's related to an area that's going to grow have more traffic and is related to the functionality of this reduced conflict intersection up here they may be interested in pursuing this so what I'm asking council is if they want me to pursue this with MnDOT and bring back additional information I'd say yes absolutely yeah I agree yep yes we'll get that started then and see what we can find out well that fire there's a 500 000 Grant out there for us and maybe there's more money somewhere yeah well you know that's that's the way it was with that Sandhill Parkway originally it was going to be done in two phases or maybe three because we didn't have the funds so we kept talking to MnDOT and explain to them how this would improve their RCI instead of getting the normal 750 we got 3.25 million so that would be the goal here is to say this is an extension it's going to saw help you solve some traffic problems of relief Road this investment makes all these badly do some faster improvements on 65. there have to be Consultants who Focus specifically on grant writing for municipalities there have to be I mean you don't need a full-time person no doing it or something but just Consulting and I've I used them many years ago to get a grant from the Department of Agriculture and something I was working on is working as with a business and they they did their deal lobbying whatever you want to call it for 10 percent of what the award was and this may be something to consider but I'm I was thinking now since you know we've got a real good relationship with MnDOT then let's at least explore to see what their take their temperature and see what their possibility of being interested in this are and and we can go from there as to how to secure the funding yeah and like we talked about you always want to be open to Residents or property owners who want to have development ideas and hear them out we also want to be really conscious about improving our relations with every Community around us including Ham Lake in particular so anything we can do that supports that is good too one more thing about Ham Lake now but you don't have to be we did have a meeting uh last Tuesday Brian Wednesday with hey Columbus in Linwood regarding this Sunrise River wmo and Ham Lake may be interested in still continuing with the organization if you go back to the original deal right well that that soften up on that if we place what the county is going to do is come in and take it over for them they're going to run it they're going to Levy them for the same thing and they'll probably be worse off maybe than they were no but I think they are a little more interested in doing that now they have until September the 19th to make a decision we'll have a little item on the council meeting on Monday night but the wmo is going to require another couple thousand dollars in legal fees to make this happen so uh that's what's kind of the resulting in an update that made that made you I thought it went pretty well Collective officials from Ham Lake actually showed up yeah so that was that was very helpful because apparently there's some miscommunication between their representatives and their elected officials so that happens though and then yep we're good good that'll make a motion to adjourn second motion made and seconded all in favor say aye aye aye opposed none heard foreign