We ready to get started? >> Yeah. Well, call to order the March 24th, 2026 planning commission meeting. And uh first thing we're going to do is have a couple interviews for for an opening a vacancy >> to approve each. >> Well, I thought we'd do that next. >> Oh, you're correct. >> Sorry about that. kind of proud of that. So, should we just take them in order here of how they are on the sheet? >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, um we would ask is Julie here too? Yeah. Hi, Julie. Thanks for coming. Um would you step out while we interviewed Lindsay and we'll start with you if you take the vote in there. I guess I'll just start us off. Um, thanks for applying. We've always we've had a lot of openings, so it's great great that we got interest from a couple people. Um, so al we've got a seven eight questions here. So, uh, first one, why are you interested in becoming a commission member for East Bethl. >> Beautiful. Uh, yeah, I've lived in the community for over 40 years and so I just genuinely wanted to give back to the community and saw that this position was open. So, thought I'd throw my name in the hat and for my help. >> Okay, thank you. >> What strengths or abilities would you bring to the planning commission? >> Good question. So, I am currently in my career a director of engineering for a medical device company. So, one of my strengths is growing businesses. It does sound arrogant, but multi-million dollar businesses. Um, and I know that the community is growing and aligned with the comprehensive plan. So want to offer that expertise to kind of help as we grow. Um I'm also as an engineer have bring a strong technical perspective as well um that can help ask questions kind of help us to um think differently or just give a new fresh perspective on you know the the community and as we grow. So, just want to offer that as well as we we continue to try to grow but in line with the values both of the community as well as ensuring we're setting ourselves up for sustainability. >> Perfect. We're just going to go around and Yeah. So, just so you're aware, it's just >> we each have a question. We're going to ask it. So, um my question then for you is as a planning commissioner member, what do you believe is your role as a representative of the city? Yeah, I view it as a representative of the city, but also to listen to the people and their perspective, but to also collaborate with the committee members to to again ensure that the community that we're making decisions on the benefit of the community and also um ensuring that we're maintaining the the values of the community going forward. >> Thank you. >> Hi What is your vision for the Highway 65 corridor? >> Yeah, so I think there's a couple things that that come to mind as we again continue to grow. I I hope I expect that we'll see new conveniences being added such as groceries orarmacies or others as needed by the community but also would like to evaluate as we get more traffic burden into the community or just more people which exciting opportunity for us but that we continue to have efficient flow of traffic um whether that's evaluating overpasses or otherwise but ensure that we um make it efficient for people to move through the community but and into the community but also in a safe way. >> Thank you. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> Yeah, thanks for coming. >> Of course. >> So, do you hold any roles that could place uh you in a position with a conflict of interest that is financial um relationship or groups engaged in community matters as a planning commission? >> I don't. >> Okay. And uh do you do you have a preference for which term to fill the partial or full term? >> Either is. >> Either is. Okay. >> And do you have any questions for us that you'd like us to answer? Yeah, I am curious as you guys look at again the growth for the future and sustainability, have you has the committee thought about the impact to or how we're going to ensure the sustainability of our water supply andor like our lakes? >> Yeah, I got a question um regarding that because uh I'm I'm always cleaning the legs like literally. Um, so, uh, what you mean like, uh, do we have a plan to sustain the lake as far as cleaning it or just making sure that, uh, is properly kept? Um, what are you mean by that? >> Yeah, I'd love to hear that perspective as well. I was also thinking about as we add more people, um, the water level, is it going to be, you know, able to be sustained long term? >> Yeah, from my perspective, uh, I think that's something that, uh, we can definitely look into. Okay. >> Uh from my um point of view because I'm always on there. Um and it's growing. Probably every every year I've been on on these lakes. So um yeah, it is growing. >> Beautiful. >> Yep. >> Yeah. I think the city cares a lot about >> the lakes we have here and stuff and um I think levels are a sensitive topic and um sorry. I I I well I mean just for the the whole state you know and our water is awesome here you know and that in fact that's my history I'm a >> certified water operator and that that's where I I came from and I've I've so I took great interest in all the you know the pollution you know I was a big part of uh stuff like that when I was in charge of utilities and um you know the White Bear Lake situation I think we've all heard about how it went up and down and a lot of people blame a lot of pumping this and that. Well, it came back. It's higher than it's ever been. >> And on nobody can say why. >> Sure. >> You know, and it's it's probably just nature. >> Sure. >> More than likely. And um some people don't want to accept that fact. >> And I live on a small it overfills. It a lake drains into the place behind my house. And it's been crazy high. and it's been almost dried up where it was as big as this room. And so it fluctuates and it's nothing that people do. It's nature and rainfall and and uh so I think that that is more prevalent on why lakes do what they do sometimes. But uh yeah, the wiper lake thing's crazy. do the whole pumping and I don't know if you you know like when Blaine was running wells and emptying other people and you know private wells it's a big deal. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So, um but yeah, that's a pretty I could talk all night about it. You don't want to hear me. So, >> we can talk offline but >> Yeah, for sure. For sure. >> But no, glad to hear that the the committee is considering you know >> sustainability of the water. >> Yeah, they do. Yeah. And uh that's it. Anybody's got any other questions? >> No, I'm good. >> Thank you. Thank you all. >> Okay. Thanks a lot. Thanks for applying. >> Sure. Hello. >> Hey, Julie. Hi. Thanks. Thanks for applying. >> Yes, absolutely. >> Lots of openings. It's great. Um, so have an interest in it. It's awesome for us. >> Um, I guess the first So, we got a few questions. We'll go over. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Uh, the first one is why are you interested in becoming a commission member for East Bethle? >> So, I've been a member. I actually am the the president of the EDA. Okay. Currently, >> so in May of last year, the council voted to me to to move the EDA to a council only body. So, as members terms have been expiring, they've not been renewed. So, slowly council members have taken the different positions of the EDA. So, at this point, I'm the last one. >> Okay. >> And my my term doesn't expire until 2028. So, thinking um to allow the process to happen the way the council would like, I would consider resigning um to make the process happen faster. But I've been involved in the ADA, I want to say, for 12 years. I've lived in the city for 26 years. Um I've got a background as a commercial real estate broker and economic development. I I work in my job. So I really want to give back. I think I have a lot of good um basic knowledge and skills. Um so that's why I just love to to do something and I thought planning division would be the most relevant to my skill set. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> The next question actually answered partly already, but um and I have a followup to your previous but the question is what strengths and abilities would you bring to the planning commission? And my follow-up question is uh why did they move to council only at the EDA? >> What was the second question? >> Why did they move to council members only for the EDA? >> It was decided by the mayor and the existing council. they voted to create that create it that way when uh when um the previous mayor was was in in his seat. So it was just voted that way. And back to your previous question, um skill set. So um I'm really familiar with planning division. So in my so I've got a background as a commercial real estate developer but I work for an architectural firm and my role is pre-development services. So I'm out finding sites and studying zoning and codes to look for development sites for our clients. So I'm in front of a lot of different planning commissions throughout the city. So pretty familiar with the process. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Um, okay. So, my question then is as a planning commissioner member, >> what do you believe is your role as a representative of the city? >> I think to review the um applications that come in in a fair manner and and looking out for the the well-being of the city, the long-term goals, and just balancing that with private property rights. I mean there's always a balance there as well, right? So um I would say that's it in a nutshell. >> It's coming back around to me. >> Okay. >> What is your vision for the Highway 65 corridor? >> I think we need to continue to promote development in the areas that we have municipal water and sewer. Um, I think the zoning um has been carefully laid out with the commercial corridor along the highway um and then with with the residential that's filled in. I think it's really a benefit to our residents to help um equalize the commercial residential tax rate. I mean, that's what people people do not like their taxes to go up. What's the response? Let's get some more commercial to take the burden away from the residents. I think that's something that we really need to think about. um you know my vision for the corridor I you know we can do zoning and we can do planning but there's private property owners there and until things move um I mean we can have a vision but it takes time with as the market turns but um did that answer your question adequately or >> yes >> okay >> thank Thank you. >> All right. Just a quick follow up uh what you mentioned uh since you already familiar with with mostly like like the commercial um buildings and things like that. Um so in your perspective uh because we have bunch of um you know the residents within that uh the uh same area. So is that something that uh we need more more commercial buildings to to kind of help with the taxes thing or is that what what you meant? >> Right. I mean commercial tax rates are higher than residential. Okay. >> So to shift the burden to the the more to the commercial side. I know people I mean considering our land mass and the number of you new housing units that we've added and the number that we need um and the number of available you know the pieces of available land I I think we've got room and you know people have there's been areas slated for that development so I I I do think it's needed as well. >> Okay. All right. So back to my question. Oh yeah. >> Uh do you hold any roles that that could place uh you in a position with a confluence of interest uh be at a financial or familiar relationship or group uh engage in the community matters as a planning commission? >> I do not excuse me. Um when I so as a licensed commercial real estate broker um even back when I was on the EDA um I actually introduced the developer for the the East Bethl Senior Housing to the pastor for um that site and I and I made a commitment when I when I started the EDA. I said I will not have a conflict. I will not take a fee. I did not take a fee and I will I will not do anything. So I I uh I have strong ethics that way and I've held that way all this year, all these years. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Uh do we have two term two openings? Um and we're wondering if you had a preference, a partial expiring in 26 and a full term expiring in 28. >> I'd prefer the full. >> Full. Okay. >> Yeah. And then finally, um, do you have any questions for us? >> Well, I'm curious what you all think. I mean, communities are starting, believe it or not, their 2050 plan shortly. So, what does the I mean, I'm sure the council has a vision, too, but just curious about you as as planning commission members, what the thoughts are for what we've got in our corridor and do our uses stay the same? Do we allow for different uses and may not have gotten into that yet. I know planning's just started, but just kind of curious about that. >> What would you change? Me personally, I would change the influence the Met Council has on our decision- making. whether I could do that or not, you know, would would take a community effort rather than just my opinion. But it seems like a ridiculous some of the burdens that they put on us, an unelected body dictating how the city should develop. It doesn't make too much sense to me. They have nothing to do with our community and their original charter was just for regulating water supply in the city and they just it's like power seeking more power and so that that's one concern I have. >> Agreed. It's amazing what an appointed body can do to >> Yeah. The the state mandates, federal mandates are there's something to follow and the regulations and >> and uh what they tell us what we can do and can't do. It's it's amazing >> how deep it is. >> But um I think it'll always be changing the vision, you know, as people and growing and you know, it's an awesome community. I mean, agriculture farm is what this was. And >> now we got to blend a new, you know, and blending them is hard sometimes, the old and the new and and uh you know, you got sometimes you have, you know, some tough decisions, but that's why that comp plan is so important to lay out, >> right? >> And um at least you always have that to lean on for the rules. >> Exactly. >> You know, for what you're approving and not approving, but um sometimes that's really regulated by the by the um the regulations we're told to put in there. How much >> the units and the >> exactly density? >> Yeah. So that's interesting. You know, another long topic. Anybody else have anything? >> No, I'm good. >> Okay. Right. I think I'm good, too. >> Yeah. Good. >> Thank you for your time. >> Yeah. Thank you very much for applying. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> It's a big help. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Commissioner Jorgensson, if I may. Um, as far as I understood, I might might have understood what you had mentioned my is that you do have one vacancy >> and that was the vacancy left by commissioner Balany. >> Okay. >> Um his term would have expired >> um at the end of 2027. So I believe you only have one vacancy. >> Okay. So the >> wording on our sheet here is wrong. >> Yeah. I I just found what I could and >> Okay. in your in your in your >> data files here. So, >> right. >> Okay. >> But that's my understanding. So, one >> Okay. And and it's a temp term for his position basically >> through 2027 >> through the end of 27. So, almost two. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We've had, you know, I kind of was thinking that, but we've had so many openings the last >> we have. It's >> three years since I've been a part of it that it's almost been constant a minimum one opening >> and so that's why. >> So, um, do we have Lindsay come out? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then do a vote or >> we should do a paper ballot. >> Yes. Right. >> Yeah. >> Well, let's >> So, Lindsay, we we found out there is only one partial term open. It's filling another person's position through January of 27. Tanner Belfany left. And you missed there for a second. our fault that we've had so many openings, one and two, over the last three years that that's why when I read two, I went, "Oh, but then I didn't catch it." So, it's actually one opening here for a year, but we're always rotating. And >> you want to do it. >> So, we're going to >> do a vote to make a recommendation to city council for somebody to fill a position until Tanner's position. >> Just Let me just tear up balance. >> I'll pass them to you. >> I can do that. Pick them up. >> We're blessed to have two really qualified candidates. >> So, thank you both very much. >> This makes it difficult when there's just one. It's easy. I don't lose them. You should collect these too, I believe. Yeah. And don't get discouraged if you don't get it because there's always openings and and opportunities. You have a a 32 vote for Julie Lux in favor. >> Well, that tells you we wanted you both. So, thanks. Sorry, Lindsay, but congratulations, Julie. And uh and again, appreciate you guys both putting in. And now it'll be forwarded to council at the next meeting, and I'm sure they'll contact you on on your approval, Julie. All right. So, I'll call to order the March 24th, 2026 meeting. And um First thing on the agenda is to adopt the agenda. >> Make a motion to adopt the agenda. >> We'll second the motion. Okay. Um so next we'll have uh >> we have to vote on that. >> Oh, we'll take a vote. >> Can we have a vote on that? All in favor say I. I >> opposed >> and the next council update. >> Well, hello everybody and congratulations Julie on being selected um for this part of the process. Uh, I'm Suzanne Urkl, a city council member, and I'll just give you guys a quick update on what's happened in the last two months that I can remember that I'm sure there's something I will for I'll miss. And if you have any questions, let me know. Uh, first, we uh are looking at doing abatement for um those who are not complying with our ordinances, those in non-compliance. So that's going to be um coming up in the next couple of months and and this is civil process in lie of a criminal process for um those in non-compliance of ordinances. Um but that being said, we are we voted to replace our current attorney firm with a new attorney firm. So they will start May 31st and that's when the whole new um civil process of abatement will be um going into effect. Um for our fire department, we did approve to lease new um fire engines starting uh last our last meeting last night. So, those will be ordered here um in April and we'll probably get them in a year or so from now. Um apparently Tom Emmer has uh gotten us $3 million to help with our uh new sewer water up at the Sims Road area. So, our schools will be eventually getting water. We do have 7 million um at the state level requesting for bonding. So keep our fingers crossed because we know we can't take it out of our city residents. That's too much. We're still paying for the last ones. Um booster day is been a hot topic. Um so they are still looking for volunteers out there. So there it's like two or three people planning this whole booster day things and I think the seniors might be taking over the vendor part of it. Um I'm work I've announced stuff all the time for the seniors. They meet the third Thursday every month and they senior dance it's the first Friday every month. If you're over 55 come on out. Um, Fidley Estate Stables got approved and the cannabis micro business CUP got approve approved and we set a date for I think it's it's in April for our town hall. Um, I think it's the 22nd but >> 29th >> 29th. All right. 2 seconds on my brain for some other reason. All right. Any questions? So on that Emmer money, well state money, but him doing that, >> it's federal money. >> Federal Yeah. They um that means instead of us, wasn't it 10 million initially the project? >> The project is 10 million. >> And we would have had to fund >> three million from feds and hopefully 7 million from the bonding package. That's >> But it would have we would have bonded the whole 10 if we would have moved forward. So it's a huge >> It's a huge deal. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's pretty awesome. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's a big deal. Yeah. Wow. >> So, >> thank you. >> Anybody else have questions? >> How many um new fire trucks are releasing? >> Two. >> Two. >> And it's like a 4 something 09 or one nine or 79 percentage rate. So, it's a lower percentage rate than what most people have to pay for mortgages and car loans and stuff. >> So, it's not a bad deal. And it'll be lease. So, it's lease to own, not least to give back. >> Will the ordinance non-compliance abatement take place when the new attorney >> the new attorneys will process everything? We will start everything all a new. >> Okay. for everything. We do have two that they will continue to prosecute or transfer over to the new attorneys. Two that we're working on prosecuting and two civil >> the four that we've got. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. With that, thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, next up, approval of the minutes. Do we have any changes to the minutes, >> Gerald? Nothing. Anything? >> I didn't have anything to add. >> No, I don't have anything. Okay. >> Can I get a motion to approve the minutes? >> Second a motion. >> I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. >> Second. >> Second. >> Second, Brian. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Okay. And oppose is done. So, next up, we have a public hearing for and possible action on recommendations relating to a variance and subsequent interimm use permit requests for the purpose of allowing domestic farm animals, horse within the rural residential district on lands currently platted um 65692nd Avenue. Eric, can you >> Yes. Thank you, Commissioner Jorgensson. Um and of course, My screen is blank. Oh boy. Give this another try. I'm gonna do my best not to read verbatim because you've all had the opportunity to read this in great detail. So I Okay. Um again, thank you uh commission members. Um for the planning commission tonight you have a request from uh applicant Lindsay Place who's here and if I mispronounce her name please let me know. She's seeking the approval of a variance and a subsequent interim use permit to allow the keeping of one domestic farm animal the horse on her property located at 656 192nd Avenue. The map on the screen is a general location of the area. Her property is um see 3.49 acres and is zoned rural residential. Um, the variance request is specifically seeking variance from section 10-151C of East Bethl Code that restricts keeping of regulated animals on a platted subdivision lot unless the stated exception is met, which is that in that plat if more than 80% of the lots are greater than three acres. Um, in this case, here is her here is her plat. I apologize it's a little wonky but her parcel is unit two and um so her property is platted and thus that restriction applies and the other parts there's not 80% of the lots that exceed three acres. So she does not stand for she would not be eligible for an inter interim use permit and thus she is seeking the variance. Um the staff report emphasizes that again the paro is 3.49 acres lots one and two one and two three and four are all similar size. Um in the packet the applicant uh provides a written narrative explaining why the request is made. Um the applicant states she purchased a property with expectation she could keep her horse there. the notes that the neighboring property in this case lot number three let me see if I can turn this um to her south and east um does have horses as well okay as well as the lot to her to the north or west in lot one so her property is surrounded by people who have horses. Um, the packet survey shows the the house, the parcel as a whole. See, get down to page 36. This is her certificate of survey. Again, upside down. I apologize. And on that You will note she has outlined a place for a horse shelter um and outlined approximately one or slightly greater acre for uh pasture land on in her rear yard. The code also requires that any structure she's has for that horse shelter also come into compliance with your accessory structure space. Um, she currently has accessory structure next to her home just to the to the west side, I'm sorry. Yeah, the west side of her home here and it's approximately 800 square ft. Um, she may have up to a total of 2475 square feet. So, in scale that's when I visited the site, it's certainly smaller than this than the accessory garage that's there. So she should be fine there from a from a size requirement and it must meet the setbacks for for the sideyard, rear yards and such. And certainly it does. Um ultimately again we're dealing with two two requests. um the variance from the rule that it's platted and then if the commission and ultimate city council feel that that is something you would want to consider based on the three tests which I'll talk about here in a minute um then you could consider the the the interim use permit in this case um is the ask reasonable staff recommends that certainly request is is reasonable in so far that it's a limited rural resial agricultural district already. The comp plan guides it for a similar use. Um generally uh use such as she is proposing and such as similar to the neighbors is reflective of the size and character of the property to the neighbors and and how they use it. Um on essential character again staff concludes that the use is limited in scale. It's one force. Certainly, it's a rural setting and it's not expected to alter the character of the of the locality or of the block or the neighborhood. Again, there's horses there. Ultimately, it does boil down to are there any unique circumstances here. So, those are the three tests you have heard before. Is it reasonable? Are there unique circumstances? And does it would it alter the essential character of the of the neighborhood? Um, back to the unique circumstances. I think staff acknowledges that the practical difficulty certainly arises from the plat restriction, but the challenge to that determination because the other parcels in that area also have that same restriction. But in her case, um uh we have to look at it from the sense of it's a larger lot. its characteristics appear to support proper keeping of a of a of a of a farm animal or horse and and so from a zoning context it's it's certainly rural residential. So you merge all those things together that that certainly does create a sense of unique circumstances. Um ultimately the staff's recommendation is for approval of the variance. Um the report outlines those specific uh rationale um for it um again which go back to reasonleness, character and uniqueness. Um, I don't know if you would want me to get into the interim use permit elements first or would you prefer to talk about the variance elements first? In your packet, um, on page 50, I did embed a proposed resolution that deals only with the variance. Um and that is on page 50 in your packet. Um it makes those findings and if you wanted to take up the the issue of the interim use permit as well at the same time. I did provide a second resolution that only manage that only deals with the interim use permit and that's on page 53. So if you're comfortable with the concept of a horse in this neighborhood, the neighbors have them. The size is adequate compared to the neighbors. The neighbor to the south received an intermuse permit. I can't speak to the whole context of how that was approved um short of a variance. Um I believe it was enforcement action at the time. Um, but in this case, we have an applicant who has stepped forward and raised her hand and said, "Hey, would the city grant me a variance? And if you do, would you please consider an interim use permit at the same time?" Um, is so is next step open a public hearing? Yes. Okay, I'll open the public hearing on it then. Is there anybody that would like to speak? >> Hi there. Uh, just state your name and address. >> Hi, I'm I'm Lindsay Place, the one who put in the >> application. The application. Yeah. Um, address 656 192nd Avenue Northeast. >> Um, I just want to say I lived here my whole life. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I've lived here my whole life. My parents um own a house like across the street from me. Um and I wanted to live in the city I grew up in. It's been a great, you know, I had a great childhood, great education at St. Francis and um just really want to be able to um bring my horse to live with me, you know. Um I so I would just be really appreciative if you uh go ahead and and approve it. Um and just thank you for the opportunity to bring this before you and um Yeah. Yeah. >> Does anybody have any questions for her? >> Not at the moment. >> Not yet. Not right now. >> We might though. >> Okay. >> Thank you so much. >> Okay. Thank you. Is there anybody else that would like to speak? >> Well, I guess >> Okay. Can Can you >> come up and state your name and address, please? >> Kathleen Cole, 1922 Madison Street Northeast. So, just right around the bend from where they are. The people across the street have the horse and years before there was another resident there that had a horse and it was an added pleasure to the neighborhood actually. um this family and Lindsay has been an a wonderful addition to the neighborhood and they're responsible and Lindsay is been trying really hard to do it the right way and I can see no problem with it being approved. In fact, I'm looking forward to it myself. >> I guess I don't know what else to say, but that's okay. Okay, >> that's all right. >> Thank you. Thanks for and anybody else. Okay, we'll close the public hearing then on that and discussion want to start. >> Oh, uh on your >> just go ahead. Yeah, I don't >> I have a couple qu So, I just have a question first to start. So, there there is currently a horse on lot one and lot three, >> correct? And we don't have the background as far as how or why. Well, we have one IUP >> on lots to I believe it is lot three. I'm sorry for it being sideways. >> Yep, that's fine. That's fine. Okay. Um because I did take a drive past as well, so I definitely saw the one horse over. Um don't ask me for directions. Looking at your house to the right. So that I saw their horse and so I would the the So I was just wondering that must be lot one. So lot three you're saying has a horse as well. >> Lot three has the interim use permit. Lot one has horses. I can't speak to how they came to be. >> Okay. >> So you're thinking that they just fenced it and brought them in? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I I >> And they have multiple horses, right? I believe I've personally saw two. >> Me too. >> Okay. >> I did put a note in your packet that you know in small small print, right? And it says maybe this is something the city might want to uh amend in its ordinance relative to the platting issue. Certainly platting is a is a control mechanism for a city to say, "Hey, we want it to look like this or look like that in terms of the size or how it's used." But when you deal with large lots like this, especially rural zoning type, it's just a small disconnect. And so maybe that's something the council or the commission might take up in the future. So it doesn't mean they could do it automatically, but they would be at least be able to stand for the variance or excuse me, stand for the interuse permit without the variance. >> Uh well, I think that um proper steps are being taken. uh the three factor test. Uh I don't see anything that would that would um jump out and say we don't recommend. Um it's adding to the area it sounds like with horses on both neighboring lots. Um, you know, the Plat subdivision was from 1977 and that's so it's that's that's a long time ago. So, I mean, the city's grown, but um that area it appears to have developed some character and it sounds like they're going to be right in step with that character with this. So, um I I think we should recommend approval. Okay. Yeah. Um yeah, for me I don't I don't see why not. Uh just because um this this horses u yeah for us I mean we we we love that. Um so there's no reason why we shouldn't approve it. >> Okay. >> Makes perfect horse sense to have them. And if there were neighbors that strongly objected, you know, might go, okay, why why is that? But you have a neighbor who is, I would say, strongly in in favor and doesn't even have a horse. >> So, everything seems to fit to to make this go ahead. >> Yeah. I it I think it's okay. I'm disappointed the one house has multiple and I just wish they would go through the correct process, too. And because you know the next person that pulls in there could be a semi-re shop and just you know that's the part that you know I wish people would apply. You know that's just but I don't think having one horse at her house would is going to be a big problem. So >> I guess that is a follow-up question. Can I mean is that in the IUP? Can we say that it would this is for one horse? If I may. Um, so council council members, commissioner members, um, on the screen and in your packet you have a resolution that basically that deals only with the variance. And I would ask that maybe um, let me go through the findings of fact. Just read them. It's also helpful for me because I'm probably a little rusty at all this. I haven't done this for three years. So, it's actually good for me to uh, get back into the swing of it. But um so then if you ultimately would consider this and then you could turn your attention to the interim use permit element of it and then um maybe you want to reopen that element of the public hearing. Okay. Take input on that and then before you maybe consider the resolution for the interse but you can split those up if you want. Okay. So, so in this resolution, um, let's see there's cities are required to make a finding of fact and I don't know how you've done this in the past. I've always just written in the form of a resolution. Have you did you do those in the form of a resolution? Maybe you referenced actually >> I'm sorry. >> We've been a lot more informal and just pass. Well, this actually is good for me because then I know what everybody does and I can have it in black and white. So, but anyway, and this is not carved in stone. If there's anything here you folks want to change, add, it's your document. It's your resolution. Um, so that's the that's the basis of it. But anyway, um I just trying to make a guest for starters. Uh findings of fact number one, the applicant seeks a variance from article 5 section 10-151C of the East Bethl city code to allow the city to consider an inter interim used permit for the keeping of one one domestic farm animal horse. And um I believe one of somebody's question was not more than one um she wouldn't be able to because of the size of the parcel. Um, number two, article 5, section 10-151C of the East Bethl City Code provides that no animal regulated by the ordinance may be kept on a parcel located within a platinum subdivision unless certain conditions are met. Number three, although the subject property exceeds three acres in size, is located within the Brookside Place subdivision, which collectively does not meet the 80% exception to allow horses as it as established in article 5, section 10151C for lots larger than 3 acres. Subject parcel contains 3.49 acres and includes sufficient open land to reasonably accommodate the limited keeping of one domestic farm animal. Number five, the rural residential district is intended to support lowdensity residential development in a rural setting where certain agricultural activities including domestic farm animals may be permitted through the interim abuse permit process. The applicant proposes a reasonable use of their property. The keeping of one domestic farm animal on a parcel of this size represents a limited rural residential activity consistent with the character intent of the rural residential zoning district. Awesome comp plan. Um the practical difficulty associated with the property arises from section 101-51C which prevents consideration of the interim use permit for domestic farm animals on platted lands even when the parcel exceeds 3 acres in size. This circumstance was not created by the applicant but results from the property status as part of a previous recorded subdivision plat and the interaction of that restriction with parcel size and zoning context. Granting the requested variance will not alter the essential character of locality. Ab budding properties also maintain horses which supports this finding. The planning commission consider this variance pursuant to the request of section 04-10 of the east bethl city code with which authorizes variances upon findings of practical difficulties. Planning Commission finds that the recommendation to approve this variance is based upon particular facts and circumstances of the subject property and application and shall not be construed as establishing a precedent for other properties. So all those great things stated, if there's anything you felt you didn't like would like to add, amend. And ultimately if this is something you wanted to approve, you could then sequentially consider the the interuse permit. >> I think I'll look for a motion to approve the variance. >> I'll make a motion to approve the variance of the resolution as um printed here and stated by Mr. Johnson. >> Second. >> I'll second the motion. >> Okay. All in favor say I. >> I. Opposed? I have none. So that piece passes. So, as it relates to the interview's permit, I'll just lurch off. Um, catch up here. Okay. So, the the the planning commission approved the variance or at least recommends approval of the variance and now it can turn its attention back to the condition to the interim use permit. Again, a lot of the same elements of the discussion apply. U 3.4 acres of size, one acre is fenced. The conditions of the of the site seem to be amendable to the keeping of one domestic farm animal. Um she has adequate size for for a shelter for the horse. Um and so the site itself seems to be in compliance. So um we reduce all these conditions back to um potential approval. And I and I note these as conditions of approval. if you wanted to do that. Um, the intermuse permit shall authorize keeping no more than one domestic farm animal on subject property, maintain one acre of pasture land per equin is required by the city ordinance 10-151H. Any shelter accessory structure associated with keeping the domestic farm animal shall comply with all the setbacks and accessory structure requirements. Um, number four, the keeping of the domestic farm animals shall remain in compliance with chapter 10 of the city code, including provisions relating to animal health, shelter, fencing, manure management, and animal welfare. And the city ordinance does list those some detail. The interim use permit shall remain valid so long as the use remains compliance with the city code and the conditions of the approval may be subject to the renewal after three years or as determined by the council. Maybe the council has had different terms. Maybe it should be five. Maybe there should be no term. But I started with three. Um the city always would retain the authority to review or revoke the interim use permit if the use is found to be in violation of the city code or the conditions of approval. So, um, these are these are the things that would be, um, important to consider if you wanted to grant an or recommend the approval of a interim use permit. Again, I embedded them in the form of a resolution, easy for everybody to kind of reference, pass around, share. Um, the your packet does include a a list of standards of how interviews permit is is analyzed. I'm happy to go through those. Um, in the ordinance, it it outlines certain conditions similar to what was found in the variance. Um, just lurch my way to that. I'll go through these briefly. um that that the interim use permit um would not impact the health, safety and welfare of the surrounding area um or the surrounding lands. It would not generate any anticipated problematic traffic conditions. There should be no real parking facilities on the city streets. Um the applicant shouldn't be operating this as a commercial use. Um, part C, there is no effect on public utilities. Again, there's no utilities in the area from the city perspective, water or sewer. Um, is there an effect on the proposed use on property values? Again, you have other neighboring sites that have horses and one horse would seem reasonable given the context. Is the proposed use consistent with the or would it have an effect on the city's comprehensive plan? Um, no. Again, it's zoned residential rural residential zoning which is intended to maintain low density development patterns and is consistent with the city's comp plan. Um, so those are the those are the big pieces of this and I think at this point I don't have a whole lot else to add. I think you did a good job. >> I wouldn't change anything from >> Well, I do have I guess the threeear there's that piece of it. >> You would go longer or shorter or >> Yeah. Renewal after three years. I feel like that's a short period of time. >> Okay. What the rest do? You think >> do we set that or just or a recommendation from us? >> You you folks are ultimately giving just a recommendation. If you think strongly that there should be maybe a longer term or no fixed term, you know, that's something you should discuss. >> For certain things, three years seems like a reasonable amount. Sometimes it's even one year, but for a horse, I don't see even why that, >> you know, unless there's a violation why it would need to be revisited. >> Correct. Kind of my feeling as well. Like as long as there's no issues then This would just kind of stay with the property. >> Yeah. And then if city council wanted to um determine else they could still do that. >> What's involved in the review? Is there a cost to the applicant? >> Yes. Interest in terms of their time for sure. Um if if it's treated as an interim use permit renewal, you probably a similar process to go through. Um would it require a public hearing? Probably. So >> it would. Okay. >> You know, if somebody has issues, then one could say, well, you've got to take this back through a public process. >> You know, hard to say. Um >> does the next door neighbor one have review? >> I would have to look. I don't believe so. So a quick question uh probably for that is um yeah I don't really see like a term thing um if the horse is there is there but my only concern uh is if there's a an issue um will will um be a home owner uh or let the city know about it or how we going to determine that there is an issue. >> Usually we would end up with complaints. I mean, the city doesn't drive around and try to find errors or people and um but usually you'd get a complaint from a neighbor or that's kind of how a lot of things are discovered. Um but you know, the enforcement would be the same whether it's three years, five years or undetermined. You know, you would still knock on the door and say, "Hey, what's going on?" >> Okay. >> And you'd hear the story, right? And then you'd certainly give them an opportunity to correct it. And but if you wanted to change that to to some, you know, subject to revocation or or non-compliance, um is maybe the best way to just deal with it. I'd like to make a motion to approve the um interimm use permit with the change of number five on conditions of approval to end the sentence at as long as it remains in use remains in compliance with the city code period and then striking um the part after that which has to do with the renewal term. Council member Jorgensson, may I ask you to open up a public hearing on this element first >> before that you might consider that and then just >> just the way we have them set up. >> Okay. >> Just on the IUP >> on the IUP. >> Okay. All right. I'll open up public hearing on the IUP. Is there anybody that would like to speak? And Hi, I'm Sue Ples, 715 192nd Avenue Northeast. I am Lindsay's mother across the street. >> Um, I just would like to address on the IUP the the point that she brought up um limiting to three years. As her mother, this is her this is her baby. She was there when this horse was born. He's not going to go anywhere. um he is going to live his entire life with her and it's been a process um to get to this point. She bought the house a year ago. She's trying to do it the appropriate way. The anxiety involved with knowing in three years she would have to get rid of her horse or reboard him, she will leave the area. She will go with her horse. And I know that here as a community we talk about it being rural and she she thought we we all thought that this wasn't a problem. We didn't understand platted and I had helped the one neighbor with their variance. We didn't think there would be a a problem with it. But as you buy a house and you invest and you fix it and you're $400,000 in debt and she says I just want to leave. She says, "I want to sell and go." And and as her mother and as somebody who lives in the community and and her passion and I mean she's worked at the schools um she wants to stay here and I I would appreciate it if you really would consider that a longer term um for her. um it just m you know this isn't they call it a farm animal but this is a this is a pet and it's a lifong commitment for her. So that's the only thing that I I I want to say on that is that but she and and and I know Mr. Johnson alluded she's trying to do this the right way and and we thought we were doing this the right way and that she had found a property and she had been looking elsewhere within the community um to stay and it and it It just happened that this property opened up as the gentleman had passed away. You don't often get the opportunity for your children to live close enough but yet kitty corners so that the trees block you, you know. Anyways, I just want to address that and and I would appreciate it if you would consider um the proposal that's out there to extend that time frame for her. >> That's exactly what my motion was for. >> Yes. I just wanted to to confirm and give give a background on more of an emotional side to that um what it would do for her um and the ease of that not having that hang over her head in three years. So I I just wanted to to boost and and yeah thank thank you for you know bringing it up and and agreeing with it. I just wanted to help confer my my feelings toward that. Thank you. >> Thank you. I did want to point out though that even if the city decided no, we want to do a three-year thing >> if there's likely like probably 99.9% likely that there would never be an issue and it would be reg granted. But I I don't see why it needs to be revisited. But I'm just pointing out it's not something that should cause anxiety even if it were, you know, because it's it's just so straightforward, especially with all what the deals with that it would just we spend a lot more time than this would probably normally do on something like this. So should be at ease about that. >> Okay, I'll close the public hearing and I'll wait for a motion. >> That was the motion. So we need a second. >> Okay. >> Why don't you go ahead and restate it? Go ahead. >> Okay. I restating my motion that I would uh like to request the um intermuse permit be granted with the exception that conditional approval number five. The um it the period is in place after compliance with the city code and it strikes everything else that pertains to renewal term. So there is no renewal term as long as things remain in compliance >> and I will second that. Okay. All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Opposed. None. That carries on. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you so much. >> And thanks for doing it the right way. That's a big deal. I'm really proud of you for doing it the right way. >> Yeah. >> Thanks. >> And then we'll send it to council and >> they'll make the final decision. first meeting >> first meeting in April which is probably the 13th is when this will be before council >> whatever the second Tuesday is I believe so >> next >> just for the sake of so I will I'll make the amendment to that resolution I'll track uh Commissioner Jorgensson down. I'll ask him to sign it and then after I'll make the amendment and then he can basically affirm what I edit. He'll sign and we'll attest to have that attested and I'll forward it to the council and so then they know what your actual findings were so I don't have to reate it. Um so >> okay, >> it's helpful for me. >> Yep. Sounds good. >> Good. >> Okay. Next up, we have a staff report on Dairy Queen for a site for plan review. >> Yes. Yes. >> This is quite the the most papers since I got on the committee. So, >> I apologize. There's a lot of elements of your code that talk about design guidelines and some of that stuff and >> you know I don't really want to miss anything. >> Um let me find in the interest of saving trees you could probably do about this. >> Yeah. I like to support paper companies. Let's see. Just give me a moment here. Too much paper. I think it's just a good visual I can up that truncate some of this stuff. Maybe there isn't, but I'll do my best. Okay, I know our applicants are here. Anyway, so um the city has received a request for an amended PUD a site plan review and a preliminary and final plat um that will enable the construction of a Dairy Queen on what is now known as Outlot B in let's see go to page 93 which is located just to the south and east of the Dairy Queen of the of the Quick Trip just on the opposite side of the roundabout. The property is guided mixed use and zoned zoned as such. So the comp plan and the zoning match uh match the same 93 preliminary plat. And on the preliminary plat you can see the the ghost drawing of the of the of the site plan. Cities do require that lots and parcels are platted. They do not allow development on outlots. So that is why the applicant is here um seeking that to be platted at the same time catch up with the site plan review and the preliminary and final plat jointly. Sometimes city will most of the time cities will split the per preliminary plat and final plat into two separate processes. This site was part of that phase one of that elvage development that's there and the outlot was part of that. Um and in this case you have basically a one parcel plan. So there's no new roads, there's no new infrastructure going in. All of it is essentially already there. There's some trail work, but but basically that is what you're dealing with. So the the the Dairy Queen itself is approximately 2554 square ft. It's going to have 62 indoor seats and approximately 20 outdoor patio seats. Going to have a drive-thru and obviously you can see the stacking. um behind it or to the northwest side of the building including pull ahead spaces. Um site generally has been designed to accommodate uh circulation queuing and service functions internally in terms of uh where do employees park, how do they access the garbage uh the dumpster areas and and the handicap parking areas. Um the site And again defined access circulation patterns, adequate stacking, adequate parking. Um, one interesting thing is this west side of the of the site um does not have a cross connection to the quick trip. Um, it would be nice to have that, but the the something not something the city can really require and maybe the development of the quick trip um was well the development of Quick Trip was at a different timing than this. So, it's certainly nothing the city can dictate, but something to be cities look at the at the at the ability of a fire truck to move around the property and um this was reviewed by our by our fire department and generally found it to be acceptable. Um there's some notes and concerns about fire flow at the hydrant. Those should be adequate um as they are in the abuing developments, but they'll have to verify that at the end. Here's the site from a context of is there connected to the city's trails and sidewalks? Obviously, you're going to have a large development to the to the east, or sorry, to the north. Um, and the city wanted to make sure that the site is connected um with off street walking facilities. And so, the the developer of the of the Elvage site um did put this together. The sidewalks are largely in, not all of the ped ramps, but this trail connection is still to be constructed by the developer of this larger development um on an easement that will be dedicated to the city. So, this trail will, my understanding, is supposed to be in this summer. Um ultimately, you'll see a condition of this being um part of the requirements. There's also a trail connection in this corner of the site. Um, both a ped ramp and a and a stairway here. You know, something you might want to talk about, we'll get to that, is maybe eliminating the stairway piece. Certainly, that could be a maintenance problem. Um, if the trail actually ends up in the same spot anyway. Um, but most importantly to note that is certainly connected to the city's trail systems. The utilities and engineering of this um have all been reviewed by the city engineer and his report is in your packet. Twist this thing. Um there's a number of comments that he references um for edits and and updates to the site plans, but generally nothing reasonable or generally nothing out of the ordinary. Any comments city engineer would has would offer will have to be addressed by the applicant prior to um the plat being approved by the city council and or prior to the time of any building permits. None of them were again the site is fully developed. The utilities are there. Um and so there really is nothing there are no true public improvements going in. um that the city will have to require lighting and signage and site elements. So the city engineer just touch base on that one. It's kind of where this is probably one of the more exciting drawings, right? I hope I have the correct one. Yes, there was a two sets submitted and this is the final set um with some updates. Um their lighting proposed that the site demonstrates compliance with their pole lights being full cut off. Their wall packs are at 90 degree cut off. So they're in compliance with that. um their photometric design is has been updated to meet the light spillover requirements of the city basically at the 0.5 foot candles at the property line. Um the thing I wanted to point out here in these windows here below the main red structure um require city requires those to be approximately 30% of the of the front facade and certainly you know what that calculation is I can't tell you um but certainly in scale it seems to me what the city is asking for the landscaping Obviously, I want to touch base on the the building materials are our Ephus metalclad um high quality things. Certainly, it's commercial architecture, corporate architecture, but you know, generally they they're durable and sustainable over time. They also did raise the parapit here on the upper end of it about a foot and other shorter distances elsewhere to hide the HVAC units or anything that's up there. That's also part of your code. Um so they did a really good job um bringing a design that was largely in compliance, you know, out out the door. Um certainly they have they have signage on on this site. Turn to that page. Signage is mentioned on page 59. >> 59. I hope it is 59. I believe you. It's a lot of data. Well, while I'm at it here, here's here's the landscaping plan. And the landscaping plan is demonstrates compliance with the city ordinance. Um, it has a variety of species, the correct overstory um for certain for the for the larger trees that are pretty much going to go adjacent to the trail on the souththeast corner. Um the the traffic islands are appropriately landscaped and it does exceed 30% of the building footprint. I'm not an arborist. I'm not a landscape architect. I can't tell you if those species are good, but certainly they appear to be. Um, looking for my sign discussion. Ah, okay. city ordinance for the mixed use zoning does not contain a signage standard. So, how much sign signage can they have? Um so what we did was we applied the the B3 district zoning which is which is basically highway commercial and that gave us some calculations to understand what they what what they want. Um so based on the city's rules are allowed 144 total square feet of signage. Um, and that's calculated as four uh four square feet per frontage foot. And so in this case, the building is approximately 36 feet wide um at the front and you multiply that by four and that gives you the 144 square ft. The application includes a total square footage of 209 square ft. So it exceeds the city's requirements um but in scale it seems to match the building. Um, but I really would like to put it up on the screen. Such a interesting packet of information. Getting close. Getting close. This was part of their original submitt. You see the windows below the grill and chill sign being smaller than what I showed you earlier. >> So they did they did upsize those brought those into compliance. Aha science. There it is. Okay. Um, so you add up all those signs, um, not including the the base of the grill and chill. You're basically taking the rectangle around each one and that totals approximately 209 square ft. Um, you'll note there is a reader board. Um, that's electronic messaging board below the grill and chill sign. Um, you also do not count the square footage of the the order, you know, the menu and >> and you don't typically count the way finding or direction, enter, exit, you know, left, right, you don't include those. Um, but fundamentally just the advertising and this is what they proposed. Um, the nuance to this is that at least from my perspective as part of the amended PUD um exceeding this uh size limit seems to match the building well. Again, this shows the where the where the the windows are a little different here, but you in scale it seems to be adequate or not obnoxious. Maybe that's a better way to obnoxiously sign. We've all seen those in the in the world. Um, and the uh sign for the I'm just going to use the phototric design here. The pylon sign, I apologize. The freestanding sign is up in this upper left hand corner. And um the rules of the game say it has to be 20 feet from the front lot line. It's about 12 feet. So it probably could be slowed down, but if you wanted to let that go, I should say it like that. If you wanted to find that would be okay for this site. That's part of the finding in the resolution. Um talked about rooftop units. Um we talked about parking and the the requirement of their parking is 17 spaces. They actually have 34. Um trying to think if there's anything else here that I missed. Again, you're talking about a preliminary and final plat sidewalks and trails. We touched on fire department. We touched on waste and dumpsters. So, the applicant uh as you saw on the design has let me go back to my site plan. You will note they're in here up in this just to the west side of the east side of the building there's the dumpster area and that's a full CMU block with a quality metal gate. Um I don't know if they are proposing to paint it. Um actually I do they I believe they are proposing to paint it to match the the building. Maybe something you want to talk about with the applicant. Should they paint it? Should they not? I don't know if the city has a preference, but what we know in time those become maintenance nightmares. And you know if they back to the site plan, there's front yards and and sideyard setbacks for the front yard setback is 40T um 10 feet for the side and 25 feet for the rear yard. The proposed building is in compliance with that being 60 feet for the front, 40 feet for the side, or greater than 40 feet for the side because obviously there's two and greater than 100 feet to the rear yard in this case measured from the waist enclosure. Um there's also setbacks for the curb lines. Um, typically it's 10 feet at the front and five feet for the rear and side. In terms of your city ordinances, there's a small encroachment on the right in in this near the trail area here. You'll see maybe that can be tweaked during construction depending on when they actually, you know, where they actually stake the building out and how everything fits. Maybe they can address that, but I don't think that would be a material deviation if you thought that was acceptable. Um, and actually the resolution that we'll talk about allows that slight deviation. Um, park dedication. Again, this was not this was not added land before and you're platting it now, the city does require a park dedication of $2,000 per acre and that helps fund park improvements which is contributed by residential commercial developments. It might have been paid by the underlying developer. I can't confirm that right now. So, if it's already been paid, we certainly don't want to make them pay twice. So, it's noted in that way as a condition that um you're obligated to pay it, but if it's been paid, well, you don't have to pay it twice. um standards for again there there are no real wetlands and flood planes remaining on the property. Uh your packet includes a report from um the city engineer that said all those have been mitigated um more than five years ago and they did do an updated study or updated finding which is in your packet just this past month. So there's no new action required there. Ultimately we have to understand um certain criteria for granting a PUB or an amendment and just go through those quickly then I promise I'll be quiet. Let's see. So standards for the PUD or an amendment for granting a granting such approval. So the ordinance outlines these bullet points to checkbox or to see if there is any uh discrepancy or problem. Um is proposed PUD with consistent with the comprehensive plan? Certainly it is. both the zoning and the comp plan have it as mixeduse uh development is the extent to which proposed PUD designated to form a desirable and unified environment within its own boundaries in terms of relationship of structures pattern circulation visual character and sufficiency of drainage and utilities. Well, we know that you you have a quick trip right next door. All of the utilities, water and sewer are already there. There's nothing new being constructed. Um there should be adequate parking. There is proposed to be good trail connectivity um and integration with the abuing um residential development. Again, will it be compatible with present and planned uses? Certainly. again next to a quick trip and the scale and intensity of the development of the Dairy Queen. It's certainly not um Valley Fair or anything like that. So um is there anything that would suggest there's a risk of health, safety, and general welfare of the occupants or the surrounding public? Again, adequate parking, lighting, internal circulation, fire department had no material issues. Um certainly the construction would have to be compliant with the city ordinances and um building codes. Are there any burdens on parks, schools, streets or other public facilities and utilities? None that I could imagine at this stage. Um, does this development rely on the construction or or operation of some future development? Certainly not. Um, actually this is kind of an infill lot at this point. Um, will the PUD have an effect on environmental quality, property values, scenic views, or other natural resources in the area? Um, ultimately the storm water grading and drainage will have to be addressed through the civil submission as subject to engineering review. You've seen the report. Nothing seems to be out of order. Um, and that any exceptions to ordinances, policies or regulations justified but by the design of the development of the proposed use term. The use of a PUD allows some flexibility for you and the city to deviate from the specific rules of the ordinance such as that sidewalk, such as that signage and it that signed location. So, it gives them some flexibility, especially in a mixeduse development. Anyway, our final recommendation to you based on all what I've stated um is that uh staff recommends the planning commission to recommend approval to the city council of the amended PUB site plan as presented the preliminary plat and the final plat. And it's called DQ East Bethl. Um I go through a number of conditions in the report. Those are restated in the resolution. So, I'll spare you. Um, and I think that's enough. Should we open the public hearing? Well, open the public hearing. Does anybody want to comment? hearing none. I'll close the public hearing and we'll discuss who wants any comments. Uh I'm not real big on the sign exceeding the standard uh especially the part that has the lit information part which probably if that were removed would get it to compliance. I don't know of another Dairy Queen that I've seen that has that and why that would be necessary. Just some more visual noise in that area. Mainly, you need to know that there's a Dairy Queen there as you're driving by, which accomplishes without that. So, That's my opinion about that. >> Can we look at that? What I'm I guess I wasn't understanding that it was over. Was it >> the standard is 144 square ft and this is be 209 square feet. >> This is 209. Okay. Yeah, I do see that. And I'm thinking if that third part down, which is the sign, >> I don't know if the information flashes or it's just lit, but it's some visual noise, especially at night, that I don't see how that would be necessary and would probably get the entire sign in compliance. >> I was wondering where placement was that was where that was going to be placed compared to the building and when you showed us, which was helpful. It was helpful. Um because I was wondering kind of the same thing. I'm like how's this going to look driving down >> because I love the look of the Dairy Queen buildings now. I just think they look so nice just because they're really modern. The big spoon and all that kind of stuff. Um >> but I was wondering where that sign is going to be as well. And it's going to be right on right on the corner, right? Okay. >> Um yeah, I wonder um >> your Dairy Queen sign calculations, assuming my math is correct. Um are based off this uh chart. And so the let's see here's your pylon sign. So there on the pylon sign, you don't use both sides. You just use one. It's not double the calculation, >> right? >> Um the electronic message board is is 32 square feet. >> So it doesn't even But it helps but it doesn't So if they if they theory got rid of that, you know, so what would you need to change to get down to the 144 square ft or some number closer to that? Um, one thing you could offer to the council is, hey, we we love it all, but we're don't dig the sign totals. You know, we recommend you reduce it to something, and the council can take it or leave it from that perspective. I think there's a lot of discussion on that. Well, in reality, you can't even read quick trip sign and they would have liked a bigger one. >> So, I know they were extremely limited, you know, and so I know there's a lot of >> discussion on that. >> Then you get into all kinds of brightness of these sounds. >> You know, there's nit and they call these things knits for for for intensity. And I, you know, so the city has certain limitations of that. Um, but >> and thank God for that because we have the opportunity to see SARS at night in the city and we don't want to suddenly not be able to do that because we keep letting more and more signage that overtakes the night sky. >> So this is their calculation. I mean they 209 and they're allowed 144. So they could they could go back to the drawing board with their signage or maybe the other rest of you folks don't have a problem with it. So ultimately that's something you could maybe not even talk about strike amend. >> Well be one without that part that I mentioned it would be 177 which is closer I think I guess I would like to hear from the applicant, but I think most of them I'll put them up there for specials and Right. So, is that true? Yeah. >> So, I would think they're going to want that. Well, it's, you know, you can want all sorts of things, but a PUD actually is not so that we can make the developer get everything they want. It's so the city can have a good outcome for the city. That's the whole point. So, I mean, the fact that we're considering a PUB on an outlaw is kind of a give and take thing, not let's you know, just make everything that they want appear because it's a PD. So, we do have a restriction for probably a good reason. Um, you won't be able to know about a special driving on the highway from that sign. um if you were able to read it, you could be um because you're putting yourself at risk as a driver trying to read a sign as you're going by. So, it it seems mainly you need to know there's a Dairy Queen there. And then if you when you get there, you can find out other things. But I don't see how the need to advertise special outweighs the intensity of all that signage and over sign as as far as the city's concerned. >> I think it'd probably be best to let them decide how they want their sign, but to bring it into compliance. >> That's just my opinion. >> Well, that's true, but that's a lot of reduction if they're not going to they want to keep that get rid of >> right thing. I think, you know, then we're not telling them >> what I mean, >> right? >> What what teach one, this is just my we all drive around the world, right? We see different message reader boards and certainly they have a corporate desire for these things and the owner, I'm sure, would want sign, but me when they I drive down the road, we all do, and I can't Sometimes they're so small or they're so bright you can't even read them. So they spend a lot of money on these things and you just can't you can't even read it. Even if you because you're going by at what 60 65 miles an hour you can't see it. I've noticed that ones that I can actually read are the are the monool >> you know the the ones that now they can't they certainly don't is interesting, but at least that's my opinion. Um, the monocolor ones seem to be more readable. It's, you know, sale on dilly bars, right? You know, hey, versus a picture of the dilly bar. I I don't know. But to your point, commissioner, it's something they should talk about. >> Yeah. >> Can we hear from the applicants? >> Yeah, we can reopen the public hearing. We'll reopen the public hearing. >> I don't think you've opened it yet. >> Oh, he did. >> I did closed it because nobody Yeah. So, we'll open the public hearing. >> Do you need to do that just to >> Yeah, absolutely. >> No, I mean I don't even know if you need to >> hear just for us to ask questions to the >> I think you have to open it. >> Get comment you close it and then you go back to what you were talking. >> Right. Okay. We'll open the public hearing for comment on Dairy Queen and ask the applicant to come up. Can you state your name and address for the record? >> Planning Commission members, my name is Matt Pavoc, civil engineer with Civil Site Group representing the applicant tonight. Um, so regarding the signs, we've had discussions about it. Um, understanding that it is a little larger than what's allowed. Um, obviously their main driver of that is there's some corporate standards that come with Dairy Queen and what they you know they design these signs they're nationwide they have standards for those so we're trying to meet the corporate standard um another thing we could look into if there was a concern about the lighting um is is I believe that should be factored into our phototric analysis to know that it's not bleeding beyond the site limits um so we could address that concern I think Um but but beyond that, you know, the the other main drivers is have a successful business. So they just want to have proper advertising so that they can get their customers in there and have as successful of a business as possible. So I think that's all that I can add about the signage desires. So >> that that was my question was I'm I'm sure a lot of the signage is dictated by the franchisee or the corporate like of how big and where the signs need to be, how many signs and such. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. All right. I got a quick question um regarding the signs because uh is the entire structure is it going to be uh either either utilized for for other businesses if if I have a business and I want to put my sign on your structure is that something that's going to be allowed in the future or just solely for for for Derek White. >> Um no that would not Yeah, it would just be for Derek Queen just their own sign. So, since I have you up here, I have one other question. I'll throw a curveball off the sign. Um, the quick trip lot to the to the north. How are we going to prevent people from parking there and walking through the drive-thru over? I mean to me that that's when I looked at all this and looked it up went past the site everything that was my only concern that and I get where if I pulled in to fill with gas my son's going to run over to get ice I get that that's really not the ones I'm as much concerned as the people who what are we going to do if Quick Trip has a problem with parking there I mean how are we going to handle that situation because I think it's going to be busy my opinion, which is good for them. But, um, if you look at the map, it's it's like that south parking of Quick Trip is right across the drive-thru. And have have we kind of convinced that we have enough parking for a site like this in your predictions? And >> correct, planning commission. Um the we are overparked by almost double the requirement for a restaurant of this size. Okay. So we do think the parking is adequate. We also have trailer parking so people that have you know coming through with a boat or whatever there's spots in the back for them to park. >> Um there is a sidewalk connection to Quick Trip. Okay. >> So in you know people could walk along the sidewalk properly and get around the drive-thru and up the sidewalk. >> So we think we've got that addressed. Um, obviously can't control everybody from running and it is the topography too is a little steep there. It's not going to be real inviting to walk through the grass there. >> Okay. >> So, a few factors. >> All right. No discussion of a fence though to >> keep them out towards the bike way. >> We haven't contemplated that. No. >> Okay. I guess if you get approved and stuff, I would just hope they'd be good neighbors and work with Quick Trip and not impede their parking. That would be a that that's my only concern. So, thanks though. >> Else is an adjustment to the lighting plan been submitted due to the exceedence of 10 foot candles. Yes, an updated lighting plan was just submitted uh after we received the original comments. Uh they made some adjustments and submitted a new one. >> Okay. And then uh wash lighting. What does that refer to? >> I'm sorry I didn't touch on that. Far as I know on the site plan, it didn't show any wash lighting where um there would be for example in the island parking they would put a They would put a a lighting unit and then blast it on the building. So that's a wash lighting. And so they would basically like just put a spotlight on the on the architecture. So that would not >> light it up >> light up the building. So that would I didn't notice any on the plan and um I just wanted to make sure I I remembered to talk I remembered to put it in the report. So there's there's no planned wash lighting. >> Okay. sometimes with, you know, they want that and that's okay, but not compliant with the city ordinance. It's not full cut off design. >> No other questions? >> Yeah, I just have a couple general questions just on the business itself. So, is this going to be normal business hours until like 9:10 p.m.? Is that what the expected? >> It's a great question. So, I don't know if I'm actually able to answer that. So, I don't know the business of these There's other representatives here with the business operator. >> Sure. >> That could maybe answer those hours questions, but I would imagine it's typical Dairy Queen hours. >> Okay. Just wonder. Yeah. Um, >> we are open a little later. >> Okay. >> Just curious again. Um, it's exciting for our community to get such a a business. So, uh, we had one like close by, but they closed and it's something else now. So, to have a Dairy Queen is exciting. So, do you have any, um, as far as if, you know, the the the lighting and the and the signage and if, you know, reducing it by a little bit, is that something that could be still in compliance with corporate? Is that something that could still probably be we could meet in the middle? >> Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm sure there's some flexibility there. I think um it's just a question for you know the the operator and the developer. Are they able to to do that and still get the the franchise to support that? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because they really you know again they they look at proper advertising getting eyeballs from the highway on the thing and uh getting customers in there. So >> that's the driver of it. >> Yeah. >> Do you know of another Dairy Queen in the North Metro area that has a readable signific do you want to come up to the mic when you guys are >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Please state your name and address. >> So, my name is Payton Gendra. My address is 3447 235th Avenue Northwest. I live in St. Francis, so not too far away. But the Where we work at is 3511 Round Lake Boulevard over in Anoka, right off of Round Lake in Bunker. And we have a sign same exact size as that. It's not on the screen anymore, but same exact size as the one we're trying to build on the new spot. >> Okay. >> Okay. That's in Is that in Ramsey? Where is that? >> It's uh Anoka. Right on the border of Andover. >> Andover. Okay. Okay. >> Okay. And it's actually been a huge help in our sales. And people come in all the time and they're like, "I saw that deal on the screen outside. Uh, is that still going on?" Sometimes we forget to update it. We're like, "Actually, I'm sorry, but that ended last week." But yeah, people people come in for that sign. >> Well, and that's where I could see me sitting at the Quick Trip and my son seeing a Dilly Bar special running over there. So, I I respect that opinion. Right. Right. And and so are you guys going to be working at the new Okay. >> Yes. >> The new one that opens. Wonderful. Wonderful. Um I I don't have any further questions. Thank you. Unless someone else >> if the if that reader board were the same profile as the support rather than sticking out as it does, would that still be counted as signage? >> Yes. You're trying >> the the support the part below the the pylon it's not a pylon sign but the pylon is just call it that is not calculated as part of the >> right that's why I was saying it fit in the same >> profiles that would Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> With that, I'll close the public hearing. >> And Glenn, to your point about light pollution, um, if they're inside of the foot candle uh, limitation, I don't know if it would matter how much square footage they have because the same amount of light would still be emitted. Is that how that reads? >> I don't know. So, I'm going to open up again. I this this was an analysis by the city engineer and that's in his report. However, they did provide a updated um we got it just either it was late last night or updated photometric. Here it is. So, we would ultimately forward this to the city to the city engineer for for he is out of the office this week. But what what this does is they'll go out there with a light meter and find where and find where it is um not compliant. And Matt, I don't know if you'd be willing to come and interpret this these colors on this if you can. planning commission members. So these um numbers are you know they're basically just supposed to be under.5 at the perimeter. So if you just look around it's just a kind of a matrix of all the different light levels just represent. So the idea is it just shows it look down below or at zero. Okay. Interesting. >> I don't know, however, to Commissioner Terry's point is if this takes into account that that sign. >> Um I don't see a spike adjacent to that sign. Something you could ask for. Um otherwise, it's probably just taking into account the the light poles and the and the and the building lighting. So we could that could be a clarification for the council in your notes. >> We could ask the council to request a reduction in the sign total square footage. Um, but if from what I understand, if they're within the the foot candles emitted limit, um, it doesn't matter how many square foots you have, they're they're going to be putting out the same amount of light. Um, and I get that it's per ordinance, uh, the 144. And I I do like the point you made that, um, you know, we're not letting them come in and step on what we've established. We would like them to be as close to in uh compliance with with what is established. So I think if we impress that upon the council to make that a point that they pursue, I think that would probably speak speak well, >> right? Because currently with no changes, it's about 150% over the limit. >> So >> about 65 square feet past what it should be. And that's a limit. That's not like, you know, not everybody pushes the limit necessarily, but that's that's going over it. It's like um regardless of whose policy, like it's my policy to get to work on time, but I can't drive 150% over the speed limit because The rules are there for a reason, >> but we have to also understand that this is a corporate business that we would not other they wouldn't be able to come to East Bethl if we don't allow some variances because they have rules that they have to follow as well. that being certain signs, certain sizes, certain, you know, they have to they have to implement these things to be able to meet their their regulations and their their rules, their so that so then we wouldn't be able to have a Dairy Queen that >> I I don't know if that's true in regards to the sign. They have a a standard, but whether they would say, "Okay, unless we get the sign, we're not going to allow this franchise." That seems a little bit much because they have a very large sign as it is even if they were in compliance. Um why would that be a deal maker or break? >> Correct. I'm not sure. You're absolutely correct. I'm just saying that there is there's some there's some give and take on both, right? To have to have a a business of this come into our community. So >> yeah, >> maybe Are there you go? Oh. Uh, no. I just wanted to uh uh second what what you saying there, Christine, but um yeah, they do have like a like a standard a code that that they have to meet uh as a business. Um so I think we can probably just make a request um and see if they can come within um that are less or you know close to the onion 65 that that is over um I think it's more durable. Um but yeah with with with a Derek Wayne yeah I know they do have like a colder standard that they have to meet. Um so yeah I think um we should just put in a request maybe to to see if they can reduce it or not but within that same um standard um maybe >> so we have standards too and the standards that I would like to uphold are the ones that are for public safety as far as like if Dairy Queen has certain standards for cleanliness of their operation or things that affect public safety. As far as advertising, um I'm not as impressed as that being compelling of a reason to because let's say that we granted that we didn't have them reduce it to our limit or something close to it. Then the quick trip which didn't get the signage as big as they wanted it, what are they going to think? or the next business that wants to go beyond and let's make larger and larger signs. And the corporate idea is to try and always push the limit of what they can do because they want the most business or the most visibility. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing for the city. If everyone that wants a business says, "Okay, we want to have a much bigger science or we want a flashing that, you know, does this because that's what we found attracts business, but how does that affect everybody driving by? >> Yeah, and that's that's something that um Yeah, you're right. Uh because with with a quick trip um maybe they even try the same thing and our uh city standard basically, you know, prevent them from from making those those big sign. is why uh for me I see is just going to put in a request um and see if they they can come down to to to our standard and or either you know reduce the science um by 65% or something like that. Right. So >> because we like the comparison was Zoka has a sign like that. We're a more rural or at least this is a more rural community than most. Um we're like compared to Blaine or an NOA except for some parts of it. So in the context of a more urban setting it makes sense to compete with the visual noise that's out there. But when you have a standalone place like this, nobody's going to miss the fact there's a Dairy Queen if they didn't have that other part of the sign or if their sign were slightly smaller. It's going to stand out because it is unique in this area. So that should be considered the context of where that's going in a very rural area. >> Well, I think we're all um encouraged by businesses moving into the city. Uh, I know with Dairy Queen the giant D in the queue is all I need to see to pull in. Um, but to your point, Glenn, yeah. Um, the the Anoka location that they spoke to is in a very dense area. There's a lot of roadways nearby, so those smaller signs are easier to read. If you're at a stoplight, I imagine there's a couple nearby. Um, you could probably read them from that stopite. This location is totally different from that. Like you said, more rural, but I think that we would enjoy having a Dairy Queen in this area and it would be nice if they could respect the city's uh wishes as far as their sign. Again, I think we can request this of the city council, though. >> Yeah, I'm all for having the Dairy Queen here, too. >> I just I'm not desperate to abregate our rules um for that, you know, as long as this or to a reasonable level. In any case, that's all I have on that. >> Eric, was that square footage strictly on that single big sign or was it the other signs combined? >> It's all the signs >> right >> in that chart. Um so the big pylon sign total square footage of the signage element is 88 square feet of that 32 square feet of it is >> so essentially four 4 by8 sheet of plywood you can imagine >> the size you have to make some estimate. So if they made adjustments in the um 70 square foot total there, you know, then they would get it down, right? That's what I'm asking. >> Yeah. I mean, it's depending on there are some other ordinance related to um wall or front facade signage. They're entitled to have two and they they certainly have those >> um But I don't know if if if that's really going to address what maybe Commissioner Terry is attempting to say is is it more a function of hey all the other signage is fine and this commission would be comfortable with the total square footage but we'd like to see that electronic message board maybe half the size or something. Is that kind of what you're thinking or is it the total of the signage? >> Because even if you took off the whole message board, you're a long ways away from that. >> Well, you're at 177 instead of 209, which is a lot closer and more reasonable of >> Matt Pav again. Um, one thing I think is important to point out is the way that this is calculated. So, it's based on the front foot of the building and the narrowest part of our building is the front. So, if this building for, for example, spun 90 degrees, we'd be allowed double the signage in the exact same site, you know. So, it has to do with the orientation more so than the actual signage because I think the intent, the spirit of it is that you don't have so much advertising on a skinny front of a building >> and we are adding up all the signage that's on the side that says like welcome to Dairy Queen and all those things. So, it's it's a it's an interesting deviation from the rule because it's more so about the orientation of the building. It's hamstringing the allowable We also want everything in scale >> and so whether it's on the front or the side is it in scale with the building. My thought is one opinion and it seems close. It seems reasonable but you're getting into the different layers of the ordinance also relate to electronic message boards cannot be bigger than 32 square feet. So even if they had other allowable distances they couldn't make their board bigger than 32 square feet. >> So you have to layer these things kind of all together. >> So take it all together, I guess. >> Do they need a welcome sign on as you drive as you go to the site plan? I have that handy, but um site plan would show anyway that there's a welcome sign that shows up on the you drive around the backside and there's a welcome sign up on the overhang. What is that accomplishing? You know, I I mean that maybe is an easy deletion, you know, who knows? Um but That would only add that would just be too many spreadsheets here. I apologize. I lost them. Here we go. So, there's a welcome sign. It's over and it's five square feet. >> Yeah, it's not much. >> It's small, but >> much. >> Is it really necessary? >> Probably not. that's something they're willing to remove. Yeah, maybe. >> I don't think that's really the point of this concern. So, I mean, again, you once you layer in everything that it's looking I think that the concern is different than like the total allowed signage at this point. So, >> I'd like to make a motion. >> Okay. that the planning commission recommend approval to the city council of the amended planned unit development site plan review preliminary plan and final plat for DQ East Bethl subject to the conditions of approval as outlined on the March 24th 2026 planning commission packet >> with is that it >> or you that's it >> were you oh nothing about signage >> that's included in the conditions of approval Oh, I didn't number 13. >> It shall not exceed 209 square feet. >> That's what they're proposing. >> Correct. Shall not exceed. So, if you would like to, you have a motion on the floor from Commissioner Downey. And uh >> I second that. I'd love to um vote I on that except for it lacking any addressing of the signage issue. So on that unfortunate basis, I unless you wanted to add anything about that, I'll be for it. >> Um no amendment to the >> okay >> pre-stated motion. Uh we should uh uh let's take a vote. All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> Opposed. >> I the motion passes as is. >> Oh, >> we'll let Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, this will move to council and we'll let them take up the sign. >> Yep. They'll they'll take the sign up and I'm sure they'll they'll maybe have the same questions and >> you know, that's April 13th. >> Yeah. Whatever the second Monday is. >> Okay. >> Take a motion to adjurnn. >> Staff updates. >> Well, I have one thing. >> Oh, staff. I'm sorry. >> So, number one, thank you for listening to me ramble on. These are I'm a little rusty at this. I haven't done this in a while. Um, just for your knowledge, I was the city, if you know where Park Heights is, it's right next to Still Water. And I was a city administrator there for 20 years. And I kind of said, I'm going to retire or whatever and do something else. Well, kind of got find my passion there and well, maybe they can help out East Bethl. So, they were kind enough to bring me on board and hopefully I can help and guide as best I can and learn as well. So that's my sad tale. The second thing um is you know reach out to me you see my if there's something you want need I'll kind of have a pretty open theory about stuff and see what data presents it and see what sticks but other thing is that um I guess the I don't know our commissioner or city council member had to leave um but I guess The city council is is working on potentially engaging in a conversation about short-term rentals and and possible regulation of those. Um, who knows what that regulation would be, but I guess um whether it be many many cities are dealing with this. It's not so much that um somebody renting out their house as an at Airbnb or or using your property as a VBO or something, but it's not the quiet tenants that are the problem. It's the it's when they become event centers or when they become party houses and that's when city gets called and we have the complaints. So, um I think the the council is going to begin to looking at that mechanism for some kind of licensing, some kind of system to address any concerns. Ultimately, that's a zoning thing. Ultimately, that's a land use thing, and I would expect that to come back to you when they get that far. So, just a heads up. So, if you see any what other cities are doing in your travels, short-term rentals is the deal. So >> yeah, I just saw that on the news. Somebody rented their house out and 800 kids showed up for the party. >> Can you imagine your house, right? >> Overwhelmed. >> 800 people. >> Well, welcome, Eric. >> Thank you. >> All right. Make a motion to adjurnn. >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> Thanks. >> I'll second the motion. >> All in favor say I. I. >> I.