All right, we'll call the meeting order 27 July 2026. Let's stand for the >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Mr. Smith, can you call the roll, please? >> Here. >> Councilmember Bryant. >> Here. >> Councilmember Glazer. >> Here. >> Councilmember Rainville. >> Here. >> Councilmember Swanson. >> Here. >> And Attorney Rookie. >> Here. >> And myself, Katherine Johnson. Roll call is complete. >> Okay. So, with the agenda, I was going to make a recommendation to the council to move the public forum from number two to number right after number three. So, we can discuss what to place. Any comments on that? So, we'll still have the public forum, but it will just be after the discussion. >> Mr. Mayor, I I think residents are here tonight to if they're going to address the council about the special election discussion, and I think it'd be good to hear from them before we have our discussion, so maybe take that into consideration. >> Any [clears throat] comments? >> Mr. Mayor >> Yes. >> Mr. Ruby, our our based on emails we have received, we can take no action today. So, we're sitting with them. We we can listen to them, but we cannot take any action. >> There's no action to take in accordance with the signing of this. >> So, I would like to have see the gallery um We want to make her comment and then attorney Ruby um discuss the special election and then the public forum. >> Well, Mr. I think that you need a motion to approve the agenda in some format. Correct. Councilwoman Glazer has suggested keeping it as it is presently. Uh Councilwoman Rando has suggested modifying it. Is there I think you need somebody needs to make a motion. >> I'll make a motion to approve the agenda as presented leaving the public forum where it is. There may be no action on certain things, but there's certainly discussion and other action that could theoretically take place, but we don't know that without getting to our agenda items and and yes, the public came to speak, let them speak beforehand before we talk. >> Second. >> [clears throat] >> On discussion point, I'm we're not saying if the residents can't talk. It was the order specifically. >> I understand that. >> Let's just not let's just not >> Mr. Mayor I would oppose the motion um based on what I had said earlier. It's my understanding that we cannot we cannot make there's no decision for us to make. So, I don't know what >> So, we've got a we've got a motion, we've got a second. So, we'll go ahead and vote on it. Um which is to leave the agenda as is. So, all those in favor, say I. >> I. >> Opposed? >> I oppose. >> All right, motion carries. So, agenda stays as is. Okay, so there's a couple rules that I need to state that you want to state for the council. >> Well, one, and I guess this goes to people in the audience as well. This is a special meeting of of the city council. The council can have special meetings. In this case, it was called by two council members, which is allowed under the statute. The notice of the special meeting said it was for discussion of the 2026 special election. As such, that is the only topic that is allowed to be discussed. We can't discuss personnel matters, you can't discuss road issues, you can't discuss any other topics. I can't stop people in the audience from discussing things cuz it's open forum, but what I can say is that the council will be directed by myself not to discuss that with you. You You can make Members of the audience can give input to the council. The council can hear that, but if it's if something different than the 2026 special election, I'm going to have to advise the council members not to engage. I don't want that to be considered a slight to your comments or being disrespectful in any way. It's just the way state law is. And that way if we violate that, it's a violation of the open meeting law, and so I have to advise the council to be cautious in what you engage. With regard to council member Reynolds' comment, there was an election error, and that election error was corrected under state law by a district court judge. Once that district court judge issued his ruling in this matter, that superseded all other state law to the contrary. So, I'll let the mayor, you know, I don't know. At one time there was discussion about having council uh and city clerk address the >> the audience >> We'll we'll get to that. So, we'll do public forum first. >> Mr. Mayor, uh question for clarification to repeat. So, as as the council's having discussion, can we bring up topics pertaining to the special election? Anything leading up to the special election that pertains to the special election from discussions last year? >> I think I think you can talk about something about the history of what happened. I know Yeah. Um vacancy in the office, there was discussion about whether to immediately hold the special election or to uh delay the special election, which is allowed under state law to the next general election. If you're asking me, can those topics be discussed and what the history that related back to uh the the election error, yes, I think that can be discussed. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, I'd like to move on to the public forum. Uh we have one person signed up and there could be more out there. Um Ms. Sue Schmidt, you're first. Um so, please state your name and your address, and then we will keep time at 3 minutes tonight, please. >> Um Sue Schmidt, 6232 191st Lane Northwest, Nowthen, Minnesota 55303. Um originally, I was going to come before you as a voice for the Nowthen Roosters, but I understand that can wait till the next election or even the next meeting. There are many more important issues to discuss. The point I would like to make is that the original appointment for Council Member Swenson's seat was to be short-term, [clears throat] but the council voted to have Council Member Swenson fill out the time until the special election could be held this November. Now it seems that there was a problem with the deadline that was missed by the mayor and staff for the special election. As residents, we feel that we should be able to elect our government officials and have a voice. So, we respectfully ask council to honor the original vote >> [clears throat] >> and the council member Swenson's term ends as originally planned and that his seat remain vacant for the November and December meetings. That way, the residents can have their say and vote in the November elections. Thank you. And thank you for calling the special meeting. >> Is there anybody else that would like to address the council? Anybody else? All right, we'll close the public forum and then we'll move on to agenda item number three, 2026 special election discussion. Um Miss Johnson, I would like you to start. >> Okay, Mr. Mayor and members of the city council and residents of Malden, I am addressing you to take full responsibility for an error that I made in my role as city clerk. I missed the deadline required to post a notice of a special election so that it could be conducted in conjunction with the November general election. While all all other required notices and postings were prepared, published, and completed in accordance with the applicable law, this special election notice was inadvertently overlooked as it required a different set of postings and publishings. During the clerk's update at a recent council member or at a council meeting, when the acceptance of the affidavit of candidacy was discussed, a council member referenced the special election. In that moment, I realized I completely overlooked that and it had been approved in 2024. I was immediately concerned and the following day I contacted both the Anoka County Elections and the city attorney to determine what steps were necessary to address the situation. The city attorney will explain that process and the outcome of that hearing. This mistake was my own. I can offer explanations to how it occurred, but ultimately it rests on me. I deeply regret regret this mistake and its inconvenience, frustration, and concern that it has caused. I respectfully ask for the understanding, grace, and forgiveness of the mayor, council, and its residents as we continue the important work of serving the community and building upon the significant progress the city has made towards its future planning and goals. To those who believe or were told this error was intentional or part of an effort [clears throat] to influence the election process, I want to state unequivocally this was not. This was an oversight for which I take full responsibility and I remain committed to serving this community with integrity, transparency, transparency, and professionalism [clears throat] to set the city up for a successful future. The mission of this staff continues to be to serve the residents through public safety, maintain road and infra- roads and infrastructure, professional office support, and the implementation of council direction provided by motion. I am proud to work alongside this exceptional team of dedicated professionals who are committed to serving this community to the best of their abilities and with the resources that we have available. Thank you for this understanding and for the opportunity to continue to serving the city of Malden. >> Mr. Rubin, your remarks. >> Um do you want to discuss going to what was this? >> [clears throat] >> Mr. Mayor, members of the council, uh my office was alerted about the election error. It's not uncommon for that to happen. So far this this year we have done six election error cases for this month. And one we're waiting on a hearing before a judge in a Sandy County sometime either tomorrow or Tuesday morning. And so it does happen. How we approach it every time is when we get the call that there's been an election error from one of our clients and it happens every election cycle. Uh we immediately figure out what the problem was, what the solution might be, and then we contact the county election department and the Secretary of State's office, the election division. And usually we speak with their office of general counsel. And each time we we ask them what are our options for remedying this error. Sometimes it's obvious. We missed a publication deadline. We just need a couple of We need to put it in the next paper. In situations where there's more complicated because it's so far into the timeline of the elections, we we ask the professionals at the county and state level to tell us what they suggest we do to fix this. And in this case, we I alerted them that this was a missed opportunity for a special election. We missed the notice requirements. Everything in the general election was done correctly, but we the city did not notice the special election for the unexpired term that is currently uh Mr. Swenson, Councilman Swenson is in. With that, the county and independently the Secretary of State election division both gave us the same advice. Their Their position on this, separate and apart as they don't talk They didn't talk to each other. They said they recommended that the election special election be vacated, means revoke, and that Councilman Swenson continue to serve for the remainder of the term beginning of the year. This My office prepared the necessary petition to bring this before the court. We got an expedited hearing date, which is required under state law, and Judge Gibbs was assigned this matter. Judge Gibbs had heard this matter, and Judge Gibbs, who used to be a city attorney like myself for Rapids, asked what is right away asked what was the recommendation of both the Secretary of State and the county. We gave the court three options. And that was to cancel the special election and allowing council member Swenson to serve the remainder of the term, canceling the special election and keeping it vacant, as was suggested here earlier tonight, or proceeding with a truncated special election trial. And the judge again asked what was the recommendation of the Secretary of State's office and the county. And we informed them him that the county and the Secretary of State both recommended that uh the special election be canceled and that the uh council member Swenson stay in office until the end of the unexpired term. And that ultimately is what the judge ordered. The judge And we have no control over the judge. The judge has complete discretion to order whatever they believe. All we can do is give them options, but the judge actually makes the decision and issues the order. And once the judge issues the order, the way state law is, it supersedes any other election laws. This is the way that the the the the error in the election can be modified, and that becomes the new rule for this election. And that's what was issued by the court. It was filed by the court administration and served on us. And you have as counsel you have a copy of that notice of filing of the order and the order and there's two copies in the public section in the back. And with that that now becomes the the rule of law and there is no appeal. That is the decision of the court. That is what we have to follow now. So, again, at this point in time that is what happened historically. We followed the same procedure for this one that we have followed in every other election contest election matter. We always do the same thing. We follow the same process of getting the county's advice, getting the Secretary of State's office advice, and then we file our paperwork with the court. We always give the court all options that they might have whether we believe their recommendation is good or not, whether the county or the state agrees, if we have an option that we can give the court, we always give it to them because we don't know what the judge is going to find of value. And that's so we made our best arguments and the judge chose the option and it did not surprise me because judges are conservative. They are going to go with what the election administrators recommend. And that's what he did this time. And it didn't surprise me also when I saw that he used to be a Rapids city attorney before he was elevated to the judge. So, that is what I have to report. If there's any questions, I'll be happy to answer any questions for the council. >> Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor. >> Mr. Rupprecht, my question is going to be two parts. The first is there was a Um, Allshouse in your office who sent an email that was forwarded to the council, and he was quoting that the judge as and the judge was saying that being one of the things in his weighing in on this was the fact that it was uncontested. Can you Can you first define for me what the judge meant by the fact that it was uncontested? >> The judge is These judges that hear these matters are typically not familiar with them. So, we have to start from scratch. And most of the time judges, when they have anybody appear before them, are looking at is there a plaintiff and a defendant? Is there a prosecutor and a defendant? In this case, there is no uh plaintiff versus a defendant. This is an election error, and this was brought before So, the judge rightfully asked, "Is there anybody else on the other side?" In other words, is there a a somebody that is contesting this? And that is the question. And I think it's just because the judge didn't understand the statutory procedure that we had to follow until we explained it to him. So, >> Help me understand. Maybe Maybe these are two different things, but you and I had a conversation telephone conversation. Um, so the court date was actually was last Tuesday, correct? The week of the 12th of May. >> It was. >> And you and I had a conversation either Friday or Thursday of the week before. In the morning. >> I don't remember the actual date. >> Yeah, after and I have to look at my phone to see what that date was. But after I had a conversation with Mr. Johnson, she asked that I call. Um, one of the questions that I had for you was would we be allowed to appear and and and So, I could be misunderstanding, but you said, "Well, you could be there, but you wouldn't be allowed to say anything." >> Correct. >> So, that that would still be in case. We would not be allowed to contest it in court. >> As I stated during our phone conversation, even as a lawyer, I don't get to just speak. I have to be recognized by the court, and I have to be given the opportunity to speak. You ask the court, "May I address you on this?" And usually the court wants to hear from the lawyers. As a member of the public, typically the court will not hear. I can't say that it's his The judge's call. If the judge wants to hear from somebody, I guess they could. Historically, they have not done that. >> So, could [clears throat] a group of residents showed up with representation, and then the judge would have heard that person? >> I cannot say that. I cannot >> Potentially Potentially hypothetically? >> Hypothetically, maybe. Maybe, but that's again up to the judge. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, any of the council members have questions for Mr. Ruby? >> Mr. Ruby, just to clarify, had the filing been done as required by the county state and county, we would have been looking at an election for somebody to serve 45 days, approximately once the tallies have been officially approved by the county. >> Yes. And the judge And the judge did note that during the hearing. He said, "Do you Do you want me to One of the options would be for me to call for a special election for someone to sit for 45 days?" And Mark also said in my office, "Who will handle that appearance?" Said, "Yes." And the judge did not think that was And the judge kind of scoffed at that. At least that's what Mark informed me. I was not on those Zoom meetings. >> [clears throat] >> Mark handled it. Um but cuz I had another meeting at the time. >> Mr. Ruby, is the statute written for the special election? I thought the statute was written so that's Let's say for instance because because the majority of the council canceled the special election that was promised to the to the residents last year. It was agreed upon that that that a special election would be held in in parallel with the general election in 2026. Based on statute. >> Correct. >> So So what's the point of of the statute being written the way that it is if somebody's just If If somebody's just going to say, "Well, that's just that's nonsense." and and not rule in favor of the residents, you know, so what we The situation we have is we have we have non-residents making decisions uh for how our city's going to be run. And it's a frustration. >> I I understand that. You're Your comment is valid. The judge is not a member of of of not a resident within the city. He wouldn't get a chance to vote here, but given the fact that this is You and I spoke on the phone. This was an election error issue. So therefore, under state law, it defaulted by operation of law to the judge. If it's a municipal election, it goes to the district court. And this is the judge that the district court administration assigned. If it's a statewide election, it goes immediately to the state Supreme Court. And so that is just how the statute is. You're right, though. A A judge who was uh you know, appointed or elected to be a district court judge, uh wearing the black robe, made the decision and not the residents of the city in this issue. Uh the statute you're referring to, the vacancy in the office, does allow the the city council was allowed to continue the the special election to the they could have called it earlier or they could have waited to the next general election. My understanding, I wasn't there, but my understanding is that the city council made that decision to continue it as long as they could to the next general election, which is allowed in the state statute, but it's that's the kind of the last date they could hold it due to the cost of putting on a special election. They didn't want to incur that extra cost. But that is a decision that the majority of the council made at that time. It was a decision allowed by state law. The special election would have occurred but for this error. If we had the city had properly noticed it, the special election would have occurred. Somebody would have been elected to fulfill that 45-day approximately window for the next term. In this case, it the election error occurred. Therefore, state law was up to your obligated to follow state law, and the judge made the decision. >> Mr. Mayor. >> Councilmember Bryan. >> Um understanding that Mr. Rueb B and knowing that in the in the court filing regarding the the results of the the hearing, if it matters, I in number five, the the judge specifically saying conducting a special election concurrently with the November 2026 general election would create substantial voter confusion and administrative complications. I understand we can't do anything about this now, but I I would like to take advantage of this so that in the future we knowing that we kind of got scoffed at for picking November in the first place that we use this as a lesson so for next time we don't do this again because it it I continue the same council seat would appear twice on the ballot one for the unexpired term ending January 27th and once potentially once for the full term beginning January 27th and the same candidates could appear twice for the same office. This duplication would risk misinterpretation by the voters, complicate ballot design, and create the potential for inconsistent or unintended outcomes. I would hope that we can at least use that as a lesson that if there's another special election for the city that we don't you don't pick uh the the November of the November of the year of a general election because we had a different date picked and then the council decided on a different date and then the then the council reversed that and changed it to November 26th. >> I I would agree with that comment. I would also suggest to the city council that if you do are facing a another vacancy that you amend your ordinance. >> [clears throat] >> Remember you had to adopt an ordinance that called for the uh the fill of a vacancy by special election. And that that language, cuz I looked at it, does contain that it would be for the next general election is what I recall. And so what I would suggest what I thought I heard is that you are suggesting that we don't wait till the next general election. We we hold a special election separate and apart from the general election at the first available time or notice requirements. You still have to give all the 84-day notice requirements in a special election. And the next We only can hold special elections on certain dates in the statute. >> Right. >> And so so what I thought I heard then is you're saying we should schedule it the first available date and then that we can meet all notice requirements that's that's available under state law for holding a special election. >> I'm just saying that Judge Gibbs, I don't remember the exact terms you all used, but a Judge Gibbs literally said, "Why are you Why are you having a special election to fill a seat for 45 days? That's only going to cause confusion, and um not only to the mainly to the voters because candidates could cross line. We just shouldn't do that. Yes, Mayor. >> You can complete your cross examination. >> For now. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Go ahead. Go ahead. >> I think No, you're not finished. >> No, those were Brian's questions before. [clears throat] >> Go ahead. >> I'm sorry. >> I just wanted to to make a point and it sounds like our attorney is recommending that as well, and I don't know I don't remember seeing something specific that the the Secretary of State weigh in on having a special election that close to the end of the year. >> Well, the Secretary of State's office and the county both expressed the same displeasure with holding one election at the same time as the other for a 45-day period. They understood us trying to comply with the law. But they but they still it was mainly the county regarding the concern about this, but it was also echoed by the election >> [clears throat] >> general counsel for the election division of the Secretary of State's office, the same thing. So, they said, "Well, there's there's potential for confusion." The county was really hot on that topic. Uh they are also concerned about it interfering with their preparation of ballots and their handling of the general election. But in this case both recommended the same course of action. Which the judge ultimately took. Which I it didn't surprise me given the judge's background. And I frankly have not in Let election error like things like this happen at every election. We do something. And every time we do the same thing, and every time the judge goes with whatever the county and the state, and I've never had the county and the state give different opposing advice. And so they always seem to it's whatever is most practical is what they they do. In this case, that was the advice they they gave. We didn't advise the court of that, but we did advise the court about their other options. And the court chose this option. I agree with you. If we could avoid that, I don't get a vote. But I But I I do agree that you could avoid that these potential issues that county had and the Secretary of State's office had concerns about by holding them on different dates. But that does have a cost. Oh, that does have a you know, it could be up to 10 grand for a staff. So, just you have to I understand what the council is doing is balancing cost versus efficiency. >> Yeah, I understand and then I understood. But, you know, that cost that would have happened in in 2025. Now Now the residents won't have that opportunity for this didn't have the opportunity at all in the last 2 years for that special election. Regardless of what happened, I mean this is just What do we need to do so so to improve for next time? >> And what I would suggest is that you if a vacancy in office does occur, that the council immediately discuss what they'd like to do and then amend your ordinance to reflect whatever that discussion is if it's other than keeping you know, filling the vacancy until the next general election. If you're going to take any other option other than that given the circumstances and the amount of time and the cost and so forth and everything and you weigh all the factors, then I would suggest if you're going to if you're not going to wait till the next general election then I would suggest we modify your ordinance, which you could easily do. And you could do it on the fly with the vacant seat ordinance. >> [clears throat] >> But you want your ordinance to be the consistent with whatever your decision-making process is for that next election. >> Councilmember Wright. >> Yes. >> Councilmember Wright. >> And then my apologies to Councilmember Wright. If memory serves me, when there is a vacancy, state statute dictates how we handle that vacancy, whether it's in the first part of the term or it's where it is in the term of that position. So, that would take precedent. And then following that, we could look at the issue of sooner than later. But then I Are we Would we then have to if we have an opportunity have a special election every year? And but if we did, do we need to put that money into a budget at this point so that we have it covered in case we have to do something? >> And that's a budgetary discussion for another meeting. Councilmember >> Councilmember Swanson, please go ahead. >> Yeah, I know a little awkward in this situation because I'm the beneficiary of this specific and it's not how I wanted to be sitting and sitting in this seat. Um in retrospect, I I would have preferred the special election last year. I appreciate what Councilmember Rainbolt was attempting to do in saving money and canceling the special election given the feedback that he received but low turnout um and and the cost of such. Um but it wasn't a mistake. I mean, there is a statute that outlines There's an ordinance that outlines what was supposed to happen here and it was a mistake. I mean, I think this is the first election that Natalie Johnson is sitting in the driver's seat of the office. I could be wrong. since this is your first one. >> The first one where I'm sitting as a city clerk, yes. The first one that would have a special election. >> And I'm I'm not trying to make excuses for her. I I This mistake is costing me, I think, honestly. I would much prefer to have a special election on the ballot this November than have people have negative feelings about me sitting in this seat and election being canceled. So, all things if I got to wave a magic wand, a special election would happen. But, it it was a mistake. Natalie is owning it. Um she's not the only one up here who has made a mistake this year that required the involvement of the city attorney. It's just sort of the nature of uh being new to a job, learning it, and figuring out what has to be done. Um she did notice all the general election and everything else correctly. I don't know what goes into notifying or or doing anything with a special election, but my understanding is it is in some way different. Um And so, I I appreciate Natalie owning this and apologizing. And I guess I would I would ask for a little bit of grace for her. And um And I guess I would just like to apologize to the residents on behalf of myself as well, cuz I did vote to move that special election out of an effort to save the city money. It was budget-minded, uh trying to save money. It was not some nefarious plot to >> [clears throat] >> put myself in the seat and keep myself in the seat. Um And so, I guess those are my thoughts on it. I thought it was probably important that I said something, since again, I'm a beneficiary of this mistake. And I don't want to be. >> Straight. >> Councilor >> Sorry. [clears throat] >> One of the things that frustrates me about this is the conversation about what the special election would potentially cost the taxpayers when the majority of this council has funded unbudgeted things um to the you know four or five times the cost of the special election. So, let let's let's put the cost of the special election behind [clears throat] us and and and the three of you voted to kill it last year. We could have had it last year. We should have had it last year. It would have been the right thing to do. So, for me, you know, there's a there's an integrity issue at stake. This council, the majority of this council made a decision to do something in a manner that they did not want the previous administration to be previous mayor to be able to do himself, and that's to appoint somebody to to this position. The person that should have been in this position if if if we would have had a temporary position as it was proposed and it went down in council meetings five five [clears throat] vote, right? But, the next thing when once we agree on on seating somebody in a temporary seat, the next thing that happens in the next meeting, we're told we're told that the very thing that happened with this special election that it coincided with the general election, that filing wasn't done with the county so that we could So, if you want Councilmember Rainbolt, if you want to go back to to to the meeting where that happened where we were told that that filing wasn't done and it was missed, go go back and look at it. But, but it happened. And then at the next meeting, a request for council action is brought before us where the three of you vote in favor of not holding the special election simply because the argument of cost. I don't know how many times I've heard Lori Yeager say in meetings when we're when we're talking about finances and budget, well, you can you know, basically you pull pull that out out of your out of your fund balance. We have spent significantly more money on unbudgeted things in the last year and a half than that election would have cost us. >> What unbudgeted things have you spent money on? >> We're not allowed to talk about things other than things that pertain to this special election. I'm going to leave this that I have to leave it at that. >> I would suggest that we leave that discussion for a further meeting then. >> You know, I'm truly disappointed that a council member can talk about integrity and then we got to stop the conversation. That's really disappointing. >> Mr. Mayor >> So we will leave the conversation unless there's anything else about the special election. >> Mr. Mayor, I can I what I I went back and looked at meeting minutes and such. When we originally voted in February 11th to do the special election and then appoint an interim also a appointed interim council agency. The notice for that August meeting was not due until May 20th. So there was no need. I don't When you say that it was not done, that wasn't something that needed to be done that day or that next day. And when we voted then on April 8th to the further August meeting, that notice wasn't necessary and it wasn't even due yet. So when you say it was forgotten, I'd like to have have proof that you say it was forgot. I do not remember that conversation whatsoever and I don't find that in meeting minutes. >> I'll I'll have to Mr. Mayor, I will I will go back to the actual YouTube recording and find me where the clerk told us that that filing has not been done. But you know, there there's there's a lot of opinions being being stated here tonight. Am I am I entitled to an opinion about how that went down? >> Yes, Mr. Mayor. >> Go ahead. >> If if opinions are based on fact, yes. Put yourself into somebody else's shoes if they're accusing you of something without having to back that anything back that up. We would all request that if you're going to accuse somebody of something that you have the documentation that proves that. >> I'm not making an accusation. I'm just saying what what happened in a meeting. That that to me that's that's a fact. Any other council members? Mr. Mayor. Do you have regular update meetings with the the clerk as the head of our council? >> I talk to Ms. Johnson on a regular basis. >> So, how did how was it that that this got missed? Something big like this got missed under your leadership. >> Oh, nice. That's That's real smooth. So, how it got missed. So, Ms. Johnson just took full responsibility. Do you think that we have a checklist of everything that we go over or we have a conversation? No, these are more update meetings to say, "Hey, are we tracking this? Are we tracking this?" It got brought up in the council meeting by Council Member Bryant. And I said, "Yes, we're supposed to have a special election." At that point, that's when Ms. Johnson identified the mistake. They took action to correct it. So, for you to come up and say that, "Oh, this should have been caught by the mayor." It's just unacceptable, Council members. It's just unacceptable. >> I'm just asking a question. >> No, no, you're being accused of a >> That's what you want. >> It is only because of the mistake. >> No. >> How How can a mistake turn only [clears throat] that? It's just unacceptable. >> All right. So, >> Mr. Mayor. >> Go ahead. >> I I I messaged back. I emailed with Natalie Natalie Natalie you say it. Uh forwarded to council. I'm as guilty because it was my motion to to defer. And I forgot all about it. So, you want to place blame? Place it on me. I'm happy to take it. >> Mr. Mayor Let's be respectful. >> I would just you know, some of us are passing moral judgment, some of us are counting the facts of what occurred and the moral judgment has no place here. As I you know, previously said, people make mistakes when they're new judges. You made a mistake several months ago that required the city attorney's involvement. Do you recall that? And that was a mistake because you were a first-time council person. >> Guys, we're supposed to be on the same page. >> I'm just saying I'm not passing moral judgment. Mistakes happen. It doesn't mean that people are immoral or trying to go out of their way to do bad stuff. We're not terrible people. That means you're passing moral judgments here and it was a mistake. >> Stay focused. Mr. Mayor, let's stay focused. I'm staying focused on this subject. I asked you to stop. >> So, Mr. Mayor >> Do you remember what comments are beneficial to the special election? Who needs to talk? >> So, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor, no more, no more comments and we'll move to adjourn. >> So, I'll second.