[clears throat] [clears throat] [sighs] >> All right, welcome to the council meeting. Today is October 18th, 2026. We'll start with the Pledge of Allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Council meeting roll call, please. >> Mayor Hedden. >> Here. >> Councilmember Bryan. >> Here. >> Councilmember Claeys. >> Here. >> Councilmember Riegel. Present. Councilmember Claeys. >> Here. >> And myself, Natalie Johnson. Councilmember Claeys. >> Mr. Mayor. >> Councilmember Claeys, would you like to I'd like to move items B and E from the consent agenda, please. >> Um um Is there any discussion? Uh should we move that to the end of the meeting? >> Yes. >> What are the old ones? B and E. There was uh one other request was uh the RC that Councilman Wilson put forward. If we can put that in the consent agenda as P. >> Unless this question is wanted on that. So that brings us to E. >> I have a one echo. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Uh B and E now. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Any other adjustments to the agenda? >> So there was one more we wanted to move the Basalt Street project up uh right after the presentation with the uh the hockey rink. So hockey rink would become 3A and then we would move Basalt, which is on page 174, we'd move that to 3B. >> So when we add those in the discussion >> So they're not allowed in >> Mr. Mayor But just a point of clarification under I, after talking to Clerk-Treasurer Johnson, we talked about that the wording in that would change. It's probably should be better worded as contracts and not subcontractors. If we wanted to make that change just to clarify that there are city contractors. And that would be folks using funds. >> Yes. Did you already make that adjustment, Ms. Johnson? >> Yes. >> So that makes sense. >> Mr. Mayor >> Councilman Redding. >> Um Lucas still I'll address it in the consent. >> You want to make a motion for the agenda at this point? >> Happy to move forward as B and E. >> Are we moving in or adding one? That's what I thought I heard at some point in time that we were adding the new one Councilman to more discussion. >> I just where I was putting that is letter P of the conceal. Yeah. If unless you want to discuss that we can do that. That's where our resolution request was for B and C, so Bravo Charlie to move to >> Bravo Echo. >> I could say the wrong one. Bravo Echo to uh it'll fall under uh EMF section. It would be under the command [snorts] of >> What? >> That I'll make a motion to approve the agenda as amended. >> Second. >> Any other further discussion? Hearing none, move to vote. All those in favor say aye. >> Aye. >> Opposed? Motion carries. Agenda is approved. All right, we'll open up for public forum. Mr. Jones, do we have a way to get anybody signed up? >> Uh I don't know if that's the time you're going to do the salt later or I want to offer a a donation. >> So, for the salt, sir, what we have is we're going to do the hockey rink uh support and then we're going to go right into the salt straight. So, it'll be following up Charlie and Matt. Did anybody sign up at all? >> Yeah. >> So, if you signed up, looks like we've got a couple of them. Mr. Pilon, you're up first. If you take the podium, state your name and address, and please take 3 minutes. >> Thank you. My name is Jeff Pilon, 18959 Valley View Boulevard Northwest. Last summer, the residents of Valley View were told there would be a special election in November 2026 to fill the council seat that came open in November of 2024. [clears throat] My comments tonight have to do with the follow-up process once this council was made aware that special election was promised would not take place as originally scheduled by the majority of this council. I appreciate Councilmember Angle's public statement sharing responsibility for missing the deadline to hold the special election in 2026. However, my bigger concern is the actions taken once the council was made aware the deadline had been missed. My understanding from the special council meeting held in July, last month, was that there were three options presented to the council. First, you could appeal to the judge to allow a judge to allow a special election to proceed on a very compressed time frame. Two, have no election and allow the appointment to cease as originally agreed upon by the council, leaving the seat open for the last 2 months of 2026. Three, have no election and allow the appointed council member to continue to serve through December 2026. I'm not here to discuss the merits of each of these options, but I'm asking how this council publicly directed staff and and city attorney to pursue that third option. I haven't seen any record of the council discussing these options as a group in public, deciding on an appropriate action by the majority vote, and then publicly directing staff and city attorney to proceed accordingly, openly and transparently. What we did hear was that somebody had discussions with someone from an Anoka County elections office, and someone from the Minnesota Secretary of State office, as to what would be the best for the residents of Nowthen. We did hear that their opinions were presented to this judge, a judge who apparently needed to be educated on this process by our own city attorney. We were then told that this newly educated judge's decision was final and could no longer be challenged. What we didn't see or hear was how this council openly and publicly gave direction to the city attorney after the council attorney decided that this was in the best interest of the residents of Nowthen. I have great concerns that this council did not openly provide that direction, and this council abdicated this important decision to folks outside our city. Folks who may not even be able to find Nowthen on a map. Allowing them to decide what's best for the residents of New London. And we're being told their decision is final. That, in my opinion, is very irresponsible and totally unacceptable. Thank you. >> Okay, next is Todd Morawski. >> Yes, I'm Todd Morawski, 19974 Bow Street. Mr. Mayor, council members, thank you for the opportunity to speak, and thank you all for your service to our community. Again, I'm Todd Morawski, and I'm running for New London City Council. Like many New London residents, I'm passionate about retaining our city's rural, small-town character. I also believe very strongly that our tax dollars must be spent as responsibly as possible. Our budget should be transparent, justified, supported by reliable information, and reflective of the priorities of New London taxpayers. Keeping New London rural and affordable depends greatly on a responsible, conservative budget. When When spending taxes Spending and taxes continually increase while city reserves decline, communities can eventually face pressure to pursue more development, higher-density housing, and to to generate more tax revenue. Over time, that can change the character of a community that the residents the residents have worked so hard to preserve. Budgets Budgets and numbers tell a story. As I reviewed New London's recent budgets and the proposed 2027 budget, I have concerns about the direction we are heading. The proposed 2027 levy increase of 9.9% deserves careful consideration and a clear explanation to taxpayers. I recognize that some expenses are necessary. Roads, law enforcement, fire protection, and other essential city services must be properly funded. However, responsible budgeting also requires separating needs from wants and asking whether certain expenses can be reduced, delayed, or phased in. Before moving forward with a levy increase of 10%, I respectfully ask the council to review every department, line item, and expenditure carefully and look for visual opportunities to reduce the burden on taxpayers. This is not about a cutting This is not about cutting essential services. It's about establishing priorities, protecting taxpayers, ensuring that every increase is necessary, justified, and supported by data. Our residents, local businesses, and farmers must be able to afford to remain in North Bend. Our businesses make important contributions to our city. Our farmers remain the foundation and the backbone of our community. As you continue working on the 2027 budget, I ask you to be as responsible with the tax dollar tax dollars as possible. Please fund our needs first, carefully examine our wants, and remember that keeping North Bend affordable, rural, and fiscally responsible depends on the budget decisions that are being made today. Thank you for your time. >> Steve Schultz. >> My name is Steve Schultz. I live at 9167 194th Lane Northwest. Um I have addressed this before. What I did is we have identified a problem, a public nuisance, which is guinea hens. They are famously loud. They produce a high-volume screech and easily travel across entire neighborhoods. They are not chickens. The only thing they have in common with regular chickens is that you can eat them and they lay eggs. I've lived next to chickens for 10 years now and I have never had an issue. I'm dealing with this randomly. Not all the time, randomly. I want everybody to know that if this moved in next to you, are you okay with that? Cuz right now, nobody needs a leader that will do what's right. Not just what's easy to get voted in. We need somebody to vote the right thing. And when it comes to a noise nuisance, nobody should have to put up with this. Nobody. I mean, we need leaders. You guys can post this. You can send it to anybody that says, "Hey, you're voting [clears throat] against chickens?" These aren't chickens. These are a noise nuisance. I shouldn't have to sit in my house with the windows open and listen to this. I need for you guys to do something. You can push it down the road. You can say, "Well, I might not get elected in the office." You need to do what's right and be a leader. You need to do something about this. Nobody deserves to live next to this. Nobody. I don't care what you do, whether you ban guinea hens that make this office screeching noise, or whether you just have some sort of noise nuisance. Anything. I'm begging you. Step up as leaders and do something about this. Cuz nobody should have to listen to this. Nobody. You shouldn't have to listen to this. I don't know why you think I should have to listen to this. They have a chance to vote on something and do the right thing. I'm asking you to do the right thing. Do something about this sewage business, please. Follow Do you want to go now or do you want to wait till the assault? >> I can wait till the assault. >> If you're okay with that. >> [clears throat] >> All right, that'll complete the public forum. Uh we are going to move on to number three in the agenda regarding the hockey rink supported by E R Y and G. >> I'll make try this again. Uh 15921 St. Andrew's Court in Ramsey. Um and the executive director of Elk River Youth Hockey. Mr. Mayor, council members, thank you for having me. Um I [clears throat] can read this. Um I think everybody should have a copy of it. I do not have any changes to it at this point. Um But it's basically we're >> to do a 2-minute summary of it just so the audience has some context cuz they probably haven't read it. >> Yeah. Um basically we are looking to partner with the city and make improvements to the outdoor rink that is here. Um possibly putting a coolant system in um and making improvements just to the the general setup of the rink. Um just on an aerial photo, it is not set up properly. There it's longer on one side than the other. I think there's reasons for that. I don't know that, but they put all the doors on one side so one side's longer than the other. Um we are I guess approaching you guys to see if uh if that is a possibility to make improvements there, to come up with a partnership. Um we are willing to put funds towards this project. We have funds saved for this project. Um I have also obtained volunteer work to do the excavation from a local now then company that has agreed to um provide excavation work. Also uh that any electrical hookup that may be needed if we do bring in the three-stage power, another lighting company has said that they would donate the time and labor for that as well. Um I think it's not just a hockey opportunity. If this is something that could have other improvements made to it, this could be a draw for other summer gatherings, whether it was potential to have a concrete in and it could be a couple of courts, basketball courts, um another gathering spot in the summertime. Um A lot of potential. Uh I I mentioned this in the presentation, but a winter festival like Sherburne or Elk River does, or I was involved with Hockey Day Minnesota when we hosted in Elk River, could host a similar event, obviously not on that scale, but more of a small-town feel to it where we could have tournaments games, restaurants, food trucks. I guess it's kind of limitless what it what it could be, but um we have a need for ice. Um we have Elk River grown uh just since I was our longtime president for the last 8 years. I was a vice president for 6 years before that. I've been on our board for almost 18 years. Since I came back as president, we've almost doubled in size. We're a top 15 association enrollment-wise in the entire state. Most people would not think of that about Elk River, but we have a very large membership um and we're out of ice. We have two beautiful ice rinks in Elk River that we try to buy as much ice as we can. We just don't have enough to be able to support our teams and keep them as competitive as we used to be um and as we would like that would be. >> So, benefits back to the city. If you would touch base that so all the residents can hear that. >> Um >> And then we'll talk about what what the city is required to to do. >> Okay. Um I I'll just read some of these points out. I'll try to uh shorten them a little bit, but substantially improving the surface of the ice. Um one of the things we we do own a rink and operate an outdoor rink of our own, much smaller than a full-size rink. Uh my understanding is you guys just flood the ground currently. So, when it melts, water melts, goes into the ground, and you're back to square one when you lose that water. We run a liner system, so we put a liner down, basically creates a shallow pool with the coolant it would keep that frozen uh in all likelihood uh much earlier and much later through thaws. Even if it did have a light thaw, the water isn't going to seep into the ground and we have to go and continually fill and flood and flood and flood. Um obviously much more efficient for time and time management, uh more water efficient, you're not going to use nearly as much water, less time uh maintaining the surface. Um Obviously, the draw of our families coming here on weeknights and weekends to practice would be a draw for the local restaurants, gas stations. Um I mentioned the a gathering space. Uh excavations covered. Again, uh the potential both in the wintertime and possibly in the future um and for summer events. Um Oh, I didn't mention that if if it were to be concreted in, I know there's been talks previously talking to maintenance workers about the need to have some type of support there um to also not have to mow it throughout the summer, but if it was something we could potentially put concrete down, uh it would be more of a permanent gathering space, less maintenance, easier set up and tear down. The system we're proposing to put in this year would be temporary, um could be torn down, stored, um and down the road if it's if if it's a possibility, uh a possible covering over it, open air, but a pavilion-style rink similar to Grand Rapids, Hopkins, Lakeville, um lacking the other cities, uh St. Louis Park, all have covered but open-air skating that are cooled like this. Um again, giving more opportunities for recreation in the city, um not just for us but for summer users as well. >> So just just for your knowledge, we don't have anything budgeted for concrete or coverage or any of that. >> Yep. >> You just heard what one of the residents talked about, that it was being budgeted. >> Yep. >> So >> I would >> I mislead you and think that [clears throat] there's money there for this to get done because there's not. >> Yep. >> All right, so good. Now can we talk about what is needed from the city because this is important that we do this. >> Okay. Um again, everything that we are putting in this ask is is just an ask. Um so what we're asking for is obviously use of the current site. We would tear the current rink down. We would have it excavated. It does need to be level within 1 in. It looks like it's it had some type of excavation done before. It's not like it's going up and downhill all over the place, but the boards are wavy and wobbly. Um We would ask that you would still remove all the snow. We understand city streets would be priority. We're aware of that. Um Permission to use the contractors that have agreed to donate the work. They're licensed, insured, bonded, I think. The city would be well aware of the names of the companies. Um Three-phase power is something that would need to be brought in. I did reach out to Connexus. There is three-phase power close. She thought, based on the area I talked to the engineer at Connexus, that it was within 200 ft. In here, I did outline the cost of that on page >> Which page? >> Thank you. Uh to upgrade the service, uh the first 200 ft is $5,765. Every foot after that is $14.85. Again, based on her estimate of the aerial, it was within the 200 ft, but that would depend on where we would place the transformer. Transformer cost would be $13,100. Um I did mention this, but we do have um funds to put towards this project. Um I would say we we probably have enough to fund almost all of it, but I would I'm not totally comfortable liquidating all of our liquid assets. So, we would I've already talked to our our bank. We could possibly get a loan where we can use the the cash that we have as collateral for it to help get this project started. Um again, this year would become more of a test phase to see how feasible it is both for us and you guys. Uh back to the city's ask Um three-phase power, obviously access to the water. Um And then we also with the other rink, if you guys are willing, we would be willing to possibly bring our other rink over. We do have another 10 by 20 warming hut. So, it's the exact same size of what you have out there now. Uh it does have a heater in it. We bring in propane. We pay for the propane. It is literally, I don't know if anybody's an ice technician, you plug it in and it takes an extension cord. Doesn't add you anything but a >> [clears throat] >> uh 110-V extension cord. Uh it's LED lights. There's little to no cost. Uh the heat goes on only when we're there. We do not heat the building when we're not there. Um a Zamboni. I've been told that there is some type of I it was I was told Frankenstein style Zamboni. I don't know what exactly that means. However, I think it would be able to maintain the ice surface. So, we would be interested Um we would purchase one if need be. Um I think it would be needed to maintain that ice surface appropriately, uh but we would need somewhere to store it. With the maintenance building close, if that's an option. The other thing we would need to discuss is if it's only going to be maintained by the city or if we would have access to also use that Zamboni. If we were to put staff on there to clear the ice um and and resurface the ice. This is not something we're looking to have resurfaced every hour on the hour like an ice arena. It's an outdoor rink. we're going to treat it like that and only do it when it's needed. Um Yeah, and and if there is any consideration that you get if you want to partner on this either now or in the future, again, we're open to all of that. >> So, one question I had was do you know do you have an estimated amount of power how much you would use each month? >> I don't. I asked that I asked that of the two companies I got estimates from. I'm assuming it has to do with every I don't know if every city has a different uh general rate for electric. What I can tell you is in the the multiple companies I've talked to about these systems is given our climate, it's not likely that they will have to run often unless it's very warm. Um so, I've had one company that said we need this big giant system. I had another company say if you're in Minnesota and it's frozen temperatures, you probably don't need a system that big. But, I do not have that. I'm sorry. I tried to get it. I do not have an answer for that. >> Mr. Mayor? >> Go ahead. >> I still have >> I do not have an answer for that. >> I didn't have the answer, but I did do a little research on the power costs and what I came up with consistent with the AI is about 5% a month to run that chiller. And again, that's not a scientific answer. I'm not standing by it, but I did search around a bit for that. It's pretty hefty cost to keep that ice nice. >> Is that for Minnesota? >> Well, yeah. >> I would think that's probably indoor cuz most of those chiller systems are going to be running in a heated arena where they're going to be running almost full-time. >> But, he did I I did tell him it was an outdoor rink and they're running a connexis trucks. So, whether it's right or not. >> If there is a cost Sorry to interrupt. If there is a cost and and that is a hiccup, we understand that and we would be willing to cover the cost of the ice sheet if that is a a sticking point. >> Go ahead, Mr. Mayor. >> Um Mr. Mayor, if forgive me, what your first name is? >> Ryan. >> Ryan, if you could get us the um But on the the plate of the the chiller itself, we can get that a more accurate number. I used to work at Conexus and okay associate with somebody that works with Conexus and commercial businesses that use chillers. >> What was what You said the data on what? >> The the manufacturer's plate on the chiller itself. >> how many like how many watts it uses and >> Yeah, what you know, obviously it's going to tell us the voltage, what's what's the amperage. If they can >> Just get us that data. They should have a spec sheet. >> They can they can make it work for anything. So, they could they could make this work on a 110. >> Well, I I understand that, but to to arrive at what the the amount of power that's going to get used on an annual basis, we need the electrical input data for that for that piece of equipment. Okay. And and it can be calculated based on whatever the the input voltage is. So, we we can at least get closer. >> Yep. >> Uh Mr. Mayor, a question that I have is So, if Let's say that the city partners with the hockey association on this, um how will calendars be managed um as far as you know, the the hockey association's use of it and the city's access to it so that, you know, we could potentially use it as an opportunity. If we've got good ice and two warming houses, we could rent for parties and and and things like that. How would that calendar be managed? >> Um we have an ice schedule. So, if the city says you need it to be open to the public for these days, we're open to that. Our biggest need is weekday ice, weeknight ice between 5:00 and 9:00, I would say. If that's too late, again, if I understand if there isn't want the need for the lights, but between 5:00 and 9:00 Monday through Friday is our highest need. We do not need necessarily more ice on the weekend. We would use it if it's available. If that's the time that it needs to be available to the public or it has to also be other nights of the week, we're open to that. We're we can be really flexible cuz any ice we can get here is more than what we have. >> Mr. Mayor. >> [clears throat] >> Councilor Clark. >> Um I've never maintained ice, and I've no idea what it takes. You just said, you know, you wouldn't expect it to be done on an hourly hour, but I mean in order to use it every night, would you need it done once a day at least? >> I would think so. Um again, that depends on the weather uh and the use, and how the ice holds up. But if it could be done one time during the day, um once you become not a Zamboni expert, but at at an indoor rink, it's done in 10 minutes. >> I mean, would it I'm just curious whether it would take our city staff less time to maintain this nice ice with an actual Zamboni than it takes to maintain what ice we have now with their Frankenstein Zamboni? Cuz if we're looking at an increase in in hours required from our workers, then I mean, that's going to be a factor. And I just I have no idea how to measure that. I don't know how much >> And and I don't know what you guys have. If it was just a flooding apparatus where you just drain water, a Zamboni's going to scrape the ice at the same time. So it's going to scrape a a thin layer of ice while also flooding right behind it. Uh so I think it's it would be less maintenance. Um I think that's why indoor rinks run them. They don't just drain the hoses around. >> And if it were, say, snowing on a weeknight on a night that you wanted to use it, I mean, do you just play through the snow, or do you require snow removal between practices? >> Um if it was again, obviously knowing city streets would be the priority. We would understand if there's a snowstorm going on that we would either likely either have shovels, which we have some, but a rink of that size, shovels isn't going to get it done. So we would maybe have to cancel practice if it gets really bad. But we have to do that with our outdoor rink now. Like if it's too warm, and there's if there's water sitting on top, or if the ice just gets too soft, kids will carve it up. And then it becomes something where we're spending more time trying to fix it if we let them go out there and skate for a couple hours. So, if there is snow on a weeknight, we would we may have to just say, "You know what? Cancel Practice is canceled." But, that's where if there's access to snow removal equipment, or if it's something you said no to bringing your own, we would look at doing that. We have snow removal equipment for the rink [clears throat] we have now, but we're talking about talking about snow blower for a 50 by 100 rink that I can get done 40 minutes by myself. This is more than double the size of that, or close to double the size of that. So, we would need a machine of some sort, a tractor, something that could move the snow quickly in in massive amounts. >> Does the chiller system have a weight limit, or does the ice over it protect it sufficiently from the >> Ice will protect it. >> So, that would be >> I think that's the important part of the grading. You can't have 6 in of water in one spot and 2 in in another. Well, then the 2 in is going to be a lot more brittle, but then it's going to have a hard time chilling that 6 in of water versus where the 2 in is. So, it it can support um I didn't research this, but I think like a standard ice rink has 2 to 3 in like an indoor rink. So, it would It's not like it's It needs to be I'm going to measure it. So, to drive a car, you need to have 12 in of ice. We don't need that much. Uh it's got to be within I think 3 to probably 3 in of ice. >> Okay. I agree. >> It It will consume less water on an annual basis. >> Because it won't evaporate as quick? >> Well, initially, you know, some [snorts] of your water starts to go into the top soil. >> Mhm. >> And then if it starts to melt, more of it goes into the top soil. >> Yeah. >> And [snorts] then you're adding the flood extra water extra time. >> Her water usage would greatly exceed what we're going this season. They're [clears throat] >> flooding it and it's going up. It warms up and they flood it starting more time. So, I think we just need to do a comparative comparative analysis to look and say, all right, here's what we're currently doing compared to what you're requesting us to do. We have zero dollars in the budget. So, just keep that in mind as we keep talking and you say concrete coverage and everything else. There definitely could be a benefit to not only the residents of Alburn businesses of Alburn. So, there is some benefit. What is What do you mean an answer by? >> This is something we would like to move on this fall, this winter. I understand if that's not possible as this this all kind of came together very quickly. Canexus said they're about 30 days out roughly if we say we need the power pulled in just based on everybody's trying to get stuff done before the ground is frozen is what I was told by them. So, once we if we could get this you know approved, we would start that process and have them bring the power in. We then connect it and the company come out. Tell us exactly how it needs to be hooked up and everything else. But, we would We're asking if this is something a possibility for this winter. >> When does When does it start? Meaning is this the middle of November or first of December? >> Realistically, I would say end of November. >> End of November. >> Mr. Mayor. >> Go ahead, Councilman. >> I I just have a question. You have two two dollar figures here. Throughout the package there's numerous dollars in here. You've got one that's dollar for the 422,450 for the 20 for the 200 by 85 foot rink. >> Yep. >> And then 302,100 dollars for the 154 by 73 foot rink. Of those two dollars, what is your goal for us to donate? What portion of that? >> That is up to you guys. If you want to have ownership in it, or anything like that. That That's totally up to you guys. If it It's mainly if you want to have ownership in the rink. What we would ask is if we're buying this, that we don't have to then turn around and donate it and say, "Here you go." And then we could lose the site at any time and be out the the investment that we have. Um I do want to point out the reason for those two different estimates is the company had said, "If you go smaller, we could get by with a smaller chiller." Um and at the time when he presented those There's permanent light poles already out there. So, he was worried that if we had to stay a setback for some reason from that, we thought we might have to shrink the ice down a little bit. And that's why the two different prices. Ultimately, we would be looking to do the full-size rink if possible. >> And then um so, you the the goal would be to reuse the boards that are there? >> Correct. >> Okay. And those are indoor boards. >> They are indoor boards. >> Yeah. So, what do you think the life expectancy of those like in outdoors for for 8 years now, I suppose? >> They're They're in better shape than what I was told they should be for how long [clears throat] they've been outside. Uh but in talking to multiple arena manufacturing companies, it is recommended that we do a changeover to fiberglass boards. Those are some type of polycarbonate plastic. I don't know the exact kind, but um to resheet them in in fiberglass and then the the UV rays just don't get to them. Um we in pricing this out before we ever approached you, looking at other sites, we were prepared to have to buy some. So, if we ever had to replace some, that's something that we know might have to be done. >> And And in regards to those, I believe when they were purchased, they came with the the glass. That kids glass. And so, can't be used? >> It can. Um It can be. The biggest concern would be wind. >> Yeah. I think our building official warned us on that. And I I thought there was I was I remember them saying that you You use the glass outdoors. Um >> Depends on the type. So, there's there are types where you probably don't want to use it in the cold temperatures if it's too brittle. Without knowing what they are, I don't know which one. >> and I don't believe that [clears throat] information was ever provided to us when Um so, then in addition [snorts] to anything we would donate to the equipment, we then we have operating costs. And we still have to figure out what those might be. >> Mr. Mayor, but Um I was just looking back in like now then uh historical minutes and stuff, seeing you know, what the history of the ice rink was. And it looks like back in 2017 that we did track hours that the guys spent on maintaining the ice. And in 2017, looks like it was uh about a little over $7,000 in time in one quarter. So, I guess that would be a benchmark. I I am curious to whether it would require less time to maintain good ice than whatever they were maintaining then. >> Mr. Mayor, >> Yeah. >> I can address that. So, when we originally um purchased those, we had no water supply. So, they were taking with the a a pool like pump up from the fire department and going down to the water wells. >> And that's what you're talking about there, right? >> And that and that and other maintenance around there. And it's because you I want to say the truck was two or 4,000 gallons and you needed 60 to 75,000 gallons to do it. So, it was a lot of trips back and forth. So, that's And that's why I had asked for that information to be to be documented cuz what are we spending on it? >> So, now we would just pull up a little spring water. >> No, we we have that ability. >> Oh, we can do >> But, that's So, those numbers are they're not Yeah, we don't have the budget for those. So, just to clarify that. So, >> Mr. Mayor, what? So, um it >> several questions about several different parts of this. So, you're talking about possibly getting a Zamboni and possibly storing it in the maintenance building. Is that Is that able to drive on on city streets? Cuz it would have to literally come all the way around cuz I to to get to the ice rink. >> Uh I think it depends on the type of tires that are on there. Some sometimes they're studded, sometimes they're not. I think you can remove the studded tires and put other tires. We don't want to tear the roads up. So, if you if you can't if they're studded tires, we would do whatever we can to put regular tires on there. Um or we have to figure out if there's a way to store it. I know we got a way to store it on site right now, but Um >> Right. So, that's just what I'm saying expectations about. It's not like it's right It would theoretically be right next door. It would have to come from somewhere and have to either go through the yard, that probably's not going to be probable, or come come around on city streets. >> Yeah, well, I mean from where the rink sits now, I think there would have to be some type of a path path that stays followed just to have access to it, whether it's for snow removal or or the Zamboni, yeah. >> And I don't know if Natalie right now are we literally putting the plows on the rink? >> I think they've been using the snowblower, but they'll probably use the snow pusher that we got this year. >> Right. Okay, but we're not getting we're not using the snow plows on the road, right? Yeah. So, >> No, but I do believe that we were also discussing um putting the Zamboni in one of the extra stalls at the recycling center. >> It does need to be It can't be in the unconditioned portion of the of the recycling center. It needs to be in the in West End because um you've got a a water tank that is going to have some water left in it after each use and it could freeze. So, it at least needs to be above freezing. >> Correct. >> Okay. And I'm also assuming, Natalie, we're not really prioritizing shoveling the ice rink today, right? >> No. >> No, that's right. So, if it's I mean, if >> No, but they spent Well, last winter, I'd say they operated the rink at least every other day. >> I understand that, but I'm also assuming we're not we're not really budgeted we're not using overtime dollars to to maintain the ice rink today. >> No. >> So, if it's a matter of if something that we're expecting the ice to be maintained or shoveled or plowed, then that would be after hours. Then we're potentially looking at at city public works overtime to to to manage that ice rink, which is something to at least to be considered that I think I would guess I could be wrong that needs to be planned because I wouldn't want to be having to have to be scheduling overtime to make sure that that the ice rink is cleared off for practice or whatever. So, um we have used a liner in the past. I don't know if you were aware of that. Um but there were issues with it or they were ripped or torn or whatever, and then that's when um city staff decided it's not worth the cost to continually having to buy new liners over and over again. So, I just wanted to point that out. Um and then yes, my concern was expectations for ice time. I'm assuming that the local churches are going to if theoretically the ice is there, they're going to want their their youth to be uh using it on Wednesday nights for sure. That that's at least a good possibility, and I know you were talking about weeknight ice, so that might be certainly an an ice rink uh consideration. Um I would also be be looking for some sort of proposal for the for the total cost to the city at least initially and annually um for maintenance and what's ex- what the expectations are. I'd also think that it would be worth getting into some sort of contract like we do with um the the the Naugatuck Knights as far as maintenance, etc. Because if something happens that all of a sudden Elks River says, "We're not going to maintain it anymore." Now we're kind of up a creek. As well as if you do replace the boards, what happens if you decide that you're you're not going to maintain it anymore? Now we you know, we'd either have to store the existing board somewhere or um put them back or there'd have to be some sort of agreement that we have something I think that we have something in writing as far as um ownership because it wouldn't necessarily I don't I don't see this as a project where Now then is donating to the hockey association. It's literally any We have to would come up with what what pieces of property end up as part of Now then so that we at least have what we have today going forward. If the if anything is done and doesn't work. >> [clears throat] >> And then yes, I agree with the point that's been made several times is given our current um proposed budget for '27, we only there's less than $20,000 in our park park reserve is low. So, I don't know how that factors into any of this at all, but that certainly is is something to maintain cuz I don't think it it's a necessarily uh wise investment for the city to be putting in several hundred thousand dollars into this project. So, that's at least where I'm at right now. So. >> Are there any other questions for the council for >> And I I don't disagree with the council member Brian on >> [clears throat] >> on the costs associated with the um burden of that costs. Um the other thing too is I to my knowledge there's one group that uses the rink and that's Joel Greenberg and his church. >> [snorts] >> And other than that, it's very sporadic use. Um So, I you know, what's the return on investment for us? The businesses get Yeah. Uh clients will come in and use the the restaurants and the the the stores and such, but there is no return on investment for the city. There is any funds that come to us. If we If we invest into it, we're not going to recoup any of that money. And that's that that bothersome to me. Um, I mean, I understand why you generate business for the for for our businesses. That's important. But, at what expense to the tax tax payers to to fund it? And our our our residents have never been in Maybe Bobby Bills, but there's probably residents that never been in either of the two restaurants or very seldom. So, um, the the businesses would benefit, but I don't see the tax payers benefiting. >> Yeah, and we're not asking for you to fund it. Um, it's more of an option if you would like to partner with it down the road. We understand we're funding this up front. We understand you don't have it in your budget that we would be having to heavily front load this. But, we're also open to if there if there is what you do want to make this a a full use space because then you do have return on it. If you're And now you have summer events that you can bring in and community members can use it. It's not just something that maintenance has to mow. Um, so we're not asking you to fund it. We're not asking for tax dollars. Um, again, in some of those, uh, proposed things, bringing in the power was something that I asked if you would cover because we can't take the power with us. And it is an improvement to the site to have that power on for other things that that site may be used for here. >> Mr. Mayor, that I had here that I was going to ask. So, there was some mention of um, three-phase power from some coming from somewhere. I'm assuming that's recycling center. >> That's correct. >> Do you know? >> I'm not sure. I did not talk to >> Okay. So, >> She didn't indicate to me where it was. >> Well, okay. So, let's just if we're assuming that it's in the recycling center, does your your footage estimate include boring underneath or are we talking about >> uh going over the street on a pole? I don't know that. That's a Conexus question. I don't know if it's going to be buried or >> Well, I'm just looking at So, it sounds to me like that if this is something that we're going to need to do, we're going to look at I'm not saying we're going forward with it or not. I mean, it's some sort of formal proposal as far as who's responsible for what. And and and how it's going to be maintained and and and um what the expectations are so that um cuz I know I This isn't enough for me. There's too many um questions in this proposal for me to to to vote for it tonight even if I was or wasn't going to, but just because there's too many outstanding details. >> And aside from electrical input, what other details are you needing? >> Cost, Zamboni >> Cost of what? >> Cost of the electricity. >> Cost of >> Okay. >> the maintenance, cost of the chiller, um cost of getting the power lines over, maintenance cost, who's responsible for what. And we have to do concrete. I can go on if you'd like. >> No. Yeah, none of those things like concrete we're not asking for. That was just something I was told to >> it's a proposal or some it's it's a proposal or something that you would [clears throat] like to possibly see? I mean, if we did this and then had to come back with concrete later, are we saying the entire thing has to be torn down and and and done over again? That to me would be part of part of what part of the proposal that okay, be nice and this is what we can do now and and theoretically we can upgrade it to X. And or turn it into a strike it for a pickleball court or something, but that's it it'd be nice to have a formal package to actually review so that that can be reviewed and and voted on at the council. In my opinion. >> You're not side did a good job just coming up with it all. This is phase one just to get the ask in. This is really probably what it comes from Brian Stock's original phase two. This is This is where you're conquering other stuff with him. >> Yep. I mean, no, for example. >> bit. Separate that obviously. This would be phase two. If this worked out great, here's the next phase and we can discuss that. But all that would be under the phase one concept that you're talking about. >> Yep. Phase one for us would be to just put a temporary rink up this year that could be taken down. Like we're just going to pay to level the ground and have it in a more suitable fashion for what the system would need to be put down if this doesn't work out. We take our system and we don't come back. Uh in following years if it doesn't work out. So, that's that's our main ask is is the willingness to maybe move to phase two and what what the ask is from us. I can certainly put a a more detailed plan together and try to get those answers. I've already tried to get some of them and I just haven't been able to, but um I can certainly dig into it more. >> If you could get me if you get back to me later in the week, there's a proposal on the agenda for next month. >> Okay. >> Give us time to give you considerations. Uh understand more information. >> Okay. Any other questions for me? >> No, thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. So, the next agenda item up is the Saw Mill Street on page 174. Uh >> [sighs] >> What am I going to say here? So, the first thing was to understand the feasibility um study for the road. Looks like the team in there had an estimated cost of $2,500. So, I know Mr. Allway if you'd like to talk at this point. >> Bill Allway Lane 20731 Saw Mill. I also have 595 on the Saw Mill. I would be willing to donate the money for the feasibility study to get the project going. And if the project is voted to go, I will give another $25,000 donation off the top to cut expenses for the taxpayers that live on the road. But I don't want to drag out 2 years. I mean, it's got to be I did the other half. I know how long it takes. I know what it should cost. There was a couple of people that didn't We lost it by one or two votes when I went towards the Old Lake Road. And there was one guy that voted no when I went towards 213. And when they returned, they got done, that guy that voted no stopped me on the road and I thought, here's a fistfight. He walked up to my window and shook my hand. He said, "The best thing you ever did." All these taxpayers that live on that road, they know their house value is going up. Minimum 12,000. There's a lot of people that don't like living on dirt. We can't have a good case, swimming pools like other people. Cuz the cars go by there 35, 40 miles an hour and dust blows up and you It doesn't work. So, I just wanted to offer that up. I'm My vote's going to be yes. And when you guys get to that, but I don't want to drag out till next year. >> So, just a quick summary of what I heard. So, you would have to pay >> I will pay for the feasible. I know it's 2,500, it's 3,000, I'll pay that. And then I'll donate 25,000 off the top of the asphalt. >> Plus, we have my husband donating his time and stuff to do to excavate the road to get it ready for blacktop. And I think what I've done the estimates I've got, my estimate was like 229 and another one 239 and that's with dirt work. And then I got an estimate for 156,000. Well, if you do the math, that's $80,000. My husband's willing of his time to do the road to get it ready for blacktop. >> [clears throat] >> So, there's 80 there, you know, with a the bid of 156, nine for blacktop, minus those 25, that's roughly around 132,000 left for to pay towards blacktop. And that doesn't That's just blacktop. >> Now, I The only thing I say on this feasibility study is if you guys who ever drove out there I have for 30 years. There's [clears throat] a hill on 595 that if you run the center line and a bus is on the other line, you're not going to see the bus till you hit. So, I would propose when they look at it that they take at least 2 ft of that top crown. Take the 5 5, move it all over, get the flat out of there, bring it back, but it but it it's If you're in the left lane, there's going to be an accident out there. I've many times almost hit people. You do have to stay in your lane cuz you can't see the other side of the hill. So, that's my proposal. >> I got that noted, though. >> All right. So, for the council feasibility study, do we know what the timeline for the feasibility study is? >> No, I can talk to Sam tomorrow to [clears throat] get it. I would imagine to do the work this fall might be tough cuz everybody's busy, but it could be first thing probably in the spring if we get a bid. >> Mr. Nesselroad. Mr. Ms. Paris, question. These estimates that you received from the contractors for the overlay project for the paving project, would they be able to get this work on their schedule calendar this year? >> I'm not sure. I haven't talked to them. The only person that would be I'm going to have brothers for blacktop only for the 156. I can call them tomorrow and I can talk to Scott and see what he says, how fast he can get it done. >> Yeah, I don't know what's going on but we've used them a lot. They'll get it done. >> Once Ball gets the dirt work done, I can ask him how fast they can get it done. >> They did the other half. >> So, if if you could get that information to the clerk as soon as possible, that'd be great. >> I'll get it done. >> So, I think there's a lot of things lined up here. So, feasibility study, we can get that paid for, we can get it done in just say 30 days or less. It could be probably less than that. Can they do the work? The other question is who's paying for the remainder of the cost? That was the question. >> It's like every other road you do, each property owner, you take it if it's $150,000, you know, you assess their tax on that. It's what I don't know what's going to be. If it's $125,000. They're you know, again assessment. >> And that's what part of it will come out of the feasibility is how much for >> That's how the other half went. >> But we don't have any budget for this year. So, normally the city would absorb 50% and the other 50% goes out. >> The city. >> We're just just saying how we normally do it. That's all. >> But Mr. Mayor, so our road policy is that when we have asphalt roads and we rework those asphalt roads, we don't have a policy on doing anything on a gravel road. There's nothing in the budget for doing anything on a gravel road. We already have our plans for the 26 26 roads that we're going to do. Before we move forward, we would need a policy as to if residents are going to come to us and say, "I'm on a dirt road and I have everybody that wants to have a gravel or a laptop, who's covering that cost? I mean, we can't budget for something we don't know. We could have 10 neighborhoods that are on gravel come to us and say, "Well, you did it. Now you need to do it for here." So, I think until we have a policy that says how we're going to handle these types of requests, and in that policy is who's going to pay for it. This is not This work has not done its city direction. It's not been part of our road improvement program. And so, we really need to have that discussion. And I understand Mr. Rowland you're wanting to get the work done quickly, and I appreciate this donation. >> I've only been working on it 18 years, so I'm not I'm not I got I got a lot of patience. So, you said a word that I don't like. You already have too many policies to get anything done. You think every other city's got to write a policy to do 600 ft of asphalt? >> Okay. >> Or 3,000 ft? >> 3,000 ft of asphalt. >> I mean, let's let's get going. >> But but if Mr. Rowland, so this this group comes in, it's it's this year, they want something done, and we don't have any budget for it. We don't have any documentation that says the residents are willing to pay for it all. And >> There was no budget for it when we did it in the past. >> I don't I don't remember that one. I'm just saying now we're doing our budget for 2027. The The road money that we put aside for 2026 is dedicated to the to the retrofit of existing asphalt roads. So, if they come to us and whatever the total dollar amount is, if they're expecting the city to pay for half, we don't have that half. And we just had a conversation of lots of needs, and I know that residents want it. I live on a dirt road. I've been on a dirt road for 22 years. So, I understand being on a dirt road. But, we didn't budget for anything. And if we're going to do something, and we're going to say we're going to do this, then that opens us up to everyone on a dirt road coming in and saying, "I want this." And if we don't know what ahead of time then we don't know you can't budget for that. We shouldn't be >> there's state federal grants. When we were a township, we become a city because they promised us that once we become a city and reach 5,000 people, all these gravel roads are going to be tarred. >> Okay. >> You guys haven't tarred two blocks of a road yet. >> So, we're not at 5,000. We're not at 5,000. And the state dictates that those funds. We do get some grants from the state, but we don't get local aid for roads from the state. And we won't until we get 5,000 people. >> I really encourage the the commentary, but would you please step up to the podium, [clears throat] Mr. Rowland, just so we can finish that? Cuz I think there's other people out there that want to talk to you. Cuz this this is a discussion. >> And and I don't see our attorney saying, "Go ahead and approve this without any type of a policy that we can we can factor in." >> So, what you're pretty much saying is why do a feasibility study cuz you guys aren't even going to move on the on the >> I am one person. >> Huh? >> I am I am one person. >> That's right. Mr. Rowland, can I can I just bring something else real quick, Mr. Rowland, not to cut you off? I think what you're trying to say is that we want to we have to be careful of setting a precedence. And I can understand and respect that. The question is is is this going to be funded by the residents of Fowlerville completely? Cuz if that's the case, it doesn't set a precedence that you have to be concerned with. And I I think that's the question. >> last time it was assessed, it was not and there was nothing in the budget. This all become This whole project happened after the budget was set. I don't know how the city did it, but I'm going to tell you I know the city's got a lot of our money in a savings account. You use [clears throat] it and the county pays you back from the tax assessment. How does every other city do it? >> And the people that I have, they've showed uh 16 homes that touched the touched properties that touched the soil. I have 10 property owners that are interested. They're interested in it, but they want to know what the cost back here to us is going to be before they'll say yes. So, that's where we're at. >> Simple thing to do is you you come up with a number of assessor and he says, "Okay, this is going to be each household is going to pay 20,000." You can pay that [clears throat] or you can have that put on your taxes. If you have that put on your taxes, does not the county reimburse the city? >> Yes. That's the budget Um I'm sorry to interrupt your question, so let him go. >> Mr. Mayor, I know we we've talked about this last time and um we did get input from Attorney Ruppy that we at least needed to do the fee feasible even if the residents had to bear one the 100% of the cost. We have done projects similar to this and we have to my understanding we did the other part of Basalt where we assessed back to the residents where we converted it from from dirt to blacktop. Um I would think as a council we can sit we we if we need a policy, it's going to be if residents want it, then let's that the we we have um we look into it. We have right now we have the money for a feasibility study. That's been donated. We can set an assessment hearing at least the first round, and if we can somehow if I'm sure we can work with Shane to so that we can we can have that that ready for the feasibility assessment. It sounds like the rest of if there's 10 residents on board and it's just of course they want to know exactly how much the cost is. We've got the dirt work covered and a good chunk of the the project covered. Let's let's see where it comes out because yes, if the assessment does raise property values, then then we theory then we shouldn't have to worry about 429 and then we can probably still get it done this year. It is possible that we might not be able to find a contractor to do it this year. That but we don't know that until we do the feasibility study, have that, and start the at least start this public hearing form process. And if it dies, we just pulled road projects in the past because it didn't work out. >> I just want to be clear. >> Yeah, I just wanted to I guess talk a little bit about road funding. I mean, I don't think that the city has paid its half of the road without bonding since I could be wrong since 2019. So, typically the half that the city pays is through bonding and then we have the city overall levies for the debt or levies for money through taxpayers to pay that debt back and the assessed part it does go on your taxes or you can prepay and that money does come back to us, but that half that the city takes on it's a real cost to the rest of taxpayers. I'm less concerned about setting a policy or precedent. I I get your point, but I'm not really concerned with that. I would say if if a whole street of people if a whole street of residents say they're game to pay their part of the assessment to get their street paved, I would have no problem trying to prioritize that road and paving it because I would much rather you know, prioritize a road where the residents are on board with paying assessment than you know, charging assessment to residents [clears throat] who have no desire pay for it. >> You also as a city save all the expense of running a grader up and down, putting chloride on, putting fast fire on. 15 years ago when I was begging for a grader to get well down the road, I took Mel Schultz, who was mayor, tomorrow, had him grab a cup of coffee and I went down to the salt. I didn't get past their driveway and they made me stop. >> I mean, I 100% agree with you. I would much rather than a grader any road than a gravel road. I I don't disagree with you at all and I see all the benefits of pavement. Aside from the costs, and it just I mean, you're all right. It's It's not in our budget. Our budget is there's no excesses there to try and pay at the spur of the moment for our paved streets. Mike, I I'm happy that you'd be willing to pay for a feasibility study. My concern would be that you paid for it and then it turns out that the project is just not feasible. So, I would like to get that funding piece figured out before we accept your donation for a feasibility feasibility study cuz I would not want you to waste your money. I mean, I I had a >> feasibility study could be used two years down the road if you're going to do anything as a city and propose to make a budget that it's included, you could reuse that same feasibility study. >> So, he brings up a very good point. Just say that you do the feasibility study now and we have no no budget to do it ourselves as a city and the people who live on the street say we don't want it we don't want to bear the entire cost. What you could do is a feasibility study is done. Now, we've got a plan for I'll say 27 roads already done, but that it could be added in. You know, we've got a little bit of room there or it could be 28. At least it gets on the schedule instead And I would 100% agree with that. My concern is I heard you say that you don't want to push it off to even though >> [clears throat] >> I'm developing land out there to give to my grandkids. I just wanted to give it away. So, just give it away. The studies cost me over a quarter million dollars and it's not done. I know how the things get pushed off, pushed off and be 2 3 years and I won't even be here. >> No, I I I I understand your your desire not to have this, you know, pushed to the back of the line and just here and take forever. I mean, I I think if you got the feasibility study, yeah, I would and even if it wasn't going to happen this year, maybe in the next year, I would put it on the top >> I'll leave it up there. You get it done next year, I'll leave the money back. >> One question, if you donate the $2,500 to do the feasibility study, you you you put a condition on it and said, I want you to do it. But it the project may not get done this year. That's the only thing. >> I understand, but then you put that in safety and you use it next year to work on your budget. >> Well, we could do the we'd do the feasibility study. That's $2,500. >> And then you take them bids and find out what you need to put in your budget for next year. >> Cost per resident. If we do it, we fund it, we can go ahead and potentially this year I I can't say it's going to be on the budget for next year for sure. >> Mr. Mayor, I just want to uh correct something for the record. I don't think Mr. Rowland said that that if we weren't willing to do the project, he was going to pull the $2,500. What he said what he said was if we're willing if we can get the project done this year, he's going to he's going to donate another $2,500. >> I'm willing to pay the $2,500 so something gets done. Yeah. I don't want to play government on something. >> Okay. I was just concerned you said there was an initial comment about the $2,500, not the $25,000. You got that correct. But no, understood. [cough] >> Mr. Mayor, [clears throat] go ahead. >> I would like to make a motion to accept Mr. Rowland's gracious donation to pay for the feasibility study, to schedule the the feasibility study with with our chief engineer, with our city engineer, and to propose that we schedule a the first assessment hearing with the residents of the project of the projects involved and at after all the donations and for the earth work and etc. have been been put into the project that the remainder of the project cost be assessed to the residents at 100,000. We can at least start there and then see where it goes and if we're if if it's not a project where that's where it would end and we just look at it for the future. Second. >> [clears throat] >> I'm sorry. I just want to be careful because yes, I want to approve physical all the study. Yes, I want to go forward at that next meeting. That's when we determine what the cost structure looks like. So, you're trying to include that right now. So, I'm concerned. >> No, I'm saying Shane will have that if if we schedule the we have the feasibility study and we have a rough idea what it cost, then we can have a meeting and discuss it. And also schedule the first assessment hearing because Shane will have that rough information that Here's Here's the total project cost. Here's the earth work that's donated. Here's any other fees that have been donated. Here's the remainder of the cost assessed to the 16 properties at 100%. >> [clears throat] >> And if at that point time with the condition it might not happen this year, but at least we can look at scheduling it and get And then and then if it doesn't work and the residents go, "Nope, we don't want to do it." We have the feasibility study and and it can be looked at for next year or whatever we else we want to do with it, but at least we're making progress. >> I I think Mr. Mayor >> Go ahead. >> I Again, we can I can address it later, too. What do we do if they get 16 or 18 and three don't choose not to do it? This is not our project. We can't just assess them. It's not our This was not our project at city direction. It's at residents' direction. So, are they going to cover the cost of anybody that doesn't want to be party to it? >> It's part of the discussion at the assessment hearing. We've done that We've done that We've done that at all the other assessment hearings where residents go, "I don't want to pay for it." or whatever, and projects have have been rejected because the cost was too high. We've done that within the past whatever 6 years on the Viking, and then and we've approved other projects, but at least that moves it forward. >> I don't disagree with you. It But But we need to know that. >> The The Every house in that project is assessed. They get to decide if they want to show up to the hearing or not. That's nothing out of the ordinary. >> And I have some people that said that they would sign interest, but they want to wait to see what the cost factors are going to be first. So, and nobody's going to say yes until they know what their portion is going to be. >> It's supposed to be a response to that. They'll come up to the assessment hearing. Yeah, thank you. Any other discussion? Yes, sir. Will you come up to the podium, please? >> I got one other question with the feasibility study, which I think is a great idea. But that hill there is a real problem that we you need to look at because right now when people come on that road on the gravel, all my drivers are on the bottom. They top that hill at 50 mph, and I can't stop them. As soon as you put that asphalt, that's going to be a 55-mph road, and you're going to have a safety hazard. So, with the feasibility study, I think you need to look at the possibility of shifting that hill up as part of that feasibility study. Without that, I think the road's going to be a death trap. >> Thank you, sir. Sir, if you got a comment, come on up, please. State your name and address. >> Craig Johnson, 20602 Basalt. I guess I'm curious to see when you figure this all out, is every piece of property that would touch that road, regardless of which way your driveway is, going to pay for it. I got two pin numbers, maybe I get charged twice. And if they do 207th, that'll be a third time. And all that kind of stuff I'd like to know. >> Certainly. And that's what the feasibility study will come out with. That's exactly what we need to understand. >> Yeah. >> Is there anybody else who would like to talk about Basalt? >> You know what what I was talking about the hill, is there a possibility again? >> My name is Mark Sherry, 204 90 Basalt. Uh is to get a traffic flow to say, you know what, most of the traffic on that there is coming from people to the north using Basalt to get down to get out to 66. That that's where a lot of the traffic is, that's where a lot of the fast traffic. So, when the feasibility study is, if there's any way to incorporate their benefit, because they use it. That's what that what really puts most of the dust up. And the neighbors Yeah, they do it, but there's not that much. >> Sorry, I understand what you're saying, but I don't believe that's how it works. >> Well, I just, you know, that's a issue. >> Any other discussion from the council? Move to vote. We already had a motion, we had a second by Councilwoman Blazer. All those in favor say I. I. Opposed? Motion carries. Okay, feasibility study is ordered. >> Mr. Mayor >> Councilwoman Blazer >> On the consent agenda, I have one correction. Um Um uh the August 3rd council minutes >> All right, customer right. >> Um on the page 36 of the August 3rd 2017, this is our budgeting um session. Um the second to the last paragraph, um I added um that the town and I stated that the county provides an additional $14,000 annually to support the facility. That number should be 15,972. I'll just do a reflect that correctly. >> So, it's an increase? >> Yep. >> Okay, 15,972. >> It's 15,972. It's the extra that we talked about last night. >> Okay, um Mrs. Johnson, can you touch base on the items that need to be updated? The pages? >> Yeah, doing a review of the claims that there were a couple little mistakes. Page 40 to Menards, there was a duplicate receipt for 5340. And page 39, there was a duplicate receipt for HES Construction, so those were removed. >> Did you have any others? >> On page 79 for the copy costs, uh we wanted to change it from the $20 to the actual cost. That way it doesn't have to be updated each time. And then, customer Brian, you already addressed the sub-contractor contractor. >> So, moving on to the consent agenda, uh you remove Bravo and Echo, and we added uh the RC from customer Swenson, which is a follow. Any other discussion on the consent agenda for this meeting? >> Council member Swanson, she's come from right. >> On that note, I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda as amended. >> Second. Any other discussion? Hearing none, we'll move to vote. All those in favor say I. Opposed? Motion carries. Consent agenda is approved. Moving to planning and zoning, number five. Going to monthly report. Assuming that Mr. Ash is on the line. >> Yes. >> I'm going to open this up for questions. >> Um, on the monthly report? >> Yep, just on the monthly report. Any comments or statements on monthly report? Hearing none, we'll move on to the approval of the ordinance subdivision amendment. >> Mr. Mayor, I have a question on it. Um. Number one on it is removing the planning commission review from the process. But then it says the planning commission should should hold a public hearing and make recommendation to the council. Aren't we removing them from that? >> So, it's only on the final plat. So, right now the process is they go preliminary plat approval, and then once they get it, the final plat has to go back in front of planning and zoning. Most of the time there's nothing to be done at that point cuz it's final, and then it comes in So, what it does is delay the process two or three or four weeks, and it's not beneficial to the residents. >> So, it's just the final. Okay, I I just >> It's just the final plat. It's how it's written. Go ahead. >> Was that line Did Did the last I wasn't there at the last P&Z, but did this come up at the last P&Z meeting? >> Mhm. >> I think that's what that sentence is for. That the planning commission had to review the ordinance >> Okay. >> before making their their recommendation to the council. I don't say That's how I read it. >> Okay, so it's for for final plat. That's all it is. right now. >> I think that last sentence was meant that a P&Z had to have a have a hear public hearing on the ordinance change. So that >> something here and it's >> No, it's just there. >> That how it was written, but but it's it already happened at the P&Z. So that sentence doesn't have anything to do with the ordinance change. That's how I read it. >> So if you look at the the title of it, it it truly is it's amending the city code relating to final plats. So number one makes sense, but when you read the the title statement >> This came up at P&Z and we had our joint meeting and and we had a brief discussion about why do final plats need to come back? Usually they don't change and if there were changes, then then then that would be noted and documented by the planner and then the P&Z didn't have to review them the final time that they can just come right to council. And so that's at least what's what's being backed on P&Z. >> I didn't understand how all this happened. >> Or anybody who's watching. >> And when Mr. Rod Barker was doing his development, that's exactly what came back up. The mayor went on a three-week something. Then we get this squared away and it wasn't. So that's the intent of this. >> Mr. Mayor, >> Go ahead, sir. >> I make a motion to approve the ordinance amending the city code related to final plats as and including the publication of said ordinance. >> We got a second. I think we got a third second. Second second. All right, any other discussion? If not, let's put it to a vote. All those in favor say aye. >> Aye. >> Opposed? Motion carries. Okay, anything else? I think Miss Johnson, it's up to you. >> Um just for the sake of time, we won't really talk about all of the updates that we have. Um other than I did talk to uh the county today and they are allowing them to do some work north or I'm sorry, Comcast to do some of the work north. >> So, Comcast updates, where are we at? >> Yeah, Comcast updates. Unless you have any questions on the others. >> No. >> Okay. Then the only other thing that I have is um are all of you going to be at Heritage Festival and do you want to schedule times to be at the city tent? >> I think it worked out really well last year. What do you think in the past? >> I believe I'll be in town this year. >> Excellent. >> Yes. [clears throat] >> That's it. >> That's it. >> I'll be there October 26th. >> 26th to >> I am out of town. >> So, when are you going to be out of town for that week? Councilor Brain is in town this year. >> Okay. >> Mhm. I'll be there. >> No. >> Okay. I will score. Councilor Brain is playing. >> Yes. >> Councilor Brain is good. >> Hey. >> Did I answer your question? >> So, Lexi will be there and she'll get it all set up. Um I'm actually out of town that week, so she will be there. >> So, if you have a question >> I do. Can I please get an update on Comcast? You raised by it so incredibly fast. And then we didn't even [laughter] get it finished yet. >> So, the Comcast update. So, we meet with them monthly, so just be aware of that. So, every month we talk about it and what should have been done in November didn't get done and there's always reasons and da da da da da. So, but you'll get a private Comcast. She's a little rough. But, they're doing the best they can. I'll leave it at that. So, the last project update they gave us is because of Ball Street the improvements that are taking place, they wouldn't let Comcast do the work. And this is the count. So, they just got some amount of clearance to work on the north end you said. >> Yes, they have the whole south side done. Um some of it was waiting on Connexus. They're out now, so they're starting the paving next week. So, it sounds like um they're letting them you "You can work here cuz we're here. You can work here cuz we're here." So. >> So, the last they told us was the end of August to get complete. With this latest delay, I think it's going to go into September. Um but again, they didn't sound like they come back and say, "Here's our latest update for your particular house." But the last time we asked them that specifically, it was at the end of August. But with the delays, I think you're at the middle of September. To be to be as transparent as I can be. Because of the continued delays working with the county. They can't get access to where they need. >> And they're doing more burying now than they were planning on initially just to try to get it done. >> Right. >> Okay. Mr. Mayor. >> Go ahead. >> I I I think it's important to note that there's also issues with Comcast or Xfinity. We've been waiting at our house since March. And they they buried the line incorrectly one time. They haven't It's been month and a half, almost 2 months since they did that. They haven't been back to to remedy that. So, it's it's not just in areas where we're have paving delays because of paving. It's I believe Comcast is still having to finish it, you know, getting caught up from the the problems they had with the poor contractors. >> Subcontractors. >> Their subcontractors definitely caused them multiple issues. And what they did was >> I'm sorry. >> I think they released a lot of them. They hired some new ones. And then they put some quality control checks. So, what we've been doing is any residents that calls in and say, "Hey, is this still an issue?" We're sending it to Natalie or myself. We're emailing Comcast. And they're coming out within typically 3 to 5 days and fixing the issue. So, that's how we've been handling it. We also put a feature earlier at 9:30 tonight so we could talk about any Comcast. But so, would you like me to send an email specifically to your address? >> I had a conversation with the manager just the other day. So, I believe it was on Friday when I was flying home. >> So, if you're not in the result you're looking for, please email or email me and I will we'll take care of it. So, we're we're going right to the people we do the monthly meetings, which is Megan and Julie. Um and they're able to help our residents. So, I'll I'll just put that more exactly how how they're doing. They're getting results in a fairly timely manner cuz there was lots of complaints about hearing nothing get buried, too much lime, not being treated properly. So, we're trying to work them uh on a one-on-one basis. All right, did that take care of your question, sir, and Comcast? All right, back to you, Natalie. >> Um that was it. Just making sure that you guys wanted to be there. So, I will send out a time schedule. >> Okay. Good. >> Mr. Mayor, may I ask a quick question? Yes. Um Ms. Johnson, is are we at a point where we have all the final numbers for the culvert for the city [clears throat] um replace them ourselves? >> We do and we saved $10,700. I think I sent it in one of those Friday updates. >> Okay. I'll look back at that. Court updates complete. >> Mr. Mayor. >> Go ahead, sir. >> Um I'll make a motion to approve the ordinance and its publication for the 2026 fee schedule updates. >> Second. >> Did you say second? All right, so we got a second from Councilman Ringo. Uh so, starting on page 133. Ending on Do you have any anything done here? >> Um 157-ish. >> 157. Any other um discussion on it? >> Mr. Mayor. >> Councilman Ringo. >> Um I just want to thank Delia who's been working on this and um she's done a good job keeping abreast of what is needs to be changed and keeping up with current costs and such and such. So, I appreciate Delia's work on this. >> Okay, thank you. >> Smooth to vote. All those in favor say I. Opposed? Motion carries. >> Should we have a different one for B then? >> That's item one. >> You did them both. Thank you for knocking them both off. >> Let's do agenda C. >> Go ahead, Ms. Johnson. Do you want to break this one? >> Yes. We just made some updates and there were things that needed council discussion. Um one of the areas is with the alcohol. Right now we allow beer and wine. Um and we would like to add the um because of the seltzers, to add something like propose a limit of 14%. rather than um trying to spell it out. >> Mhm. I'm not sure if that's >> I'm not a huge structure, so I'm not a huge person on it, but I know they still want to stay with no glass. It kind of eliminates the harder liquor. >> No, that's fine. That's fine. We can make that a thing. I would like to see it just probably how are we going to borrow somebody else's wording or >> Yeah, it'll go through Bob. >> Okay. Yeah, that's fine. >> That's fine by our wording. >> That makes sense these days just to and generalize and change. >> Um [clears throat] the second thing uh they'd like to talk about is >> Can we go back to the first one real quick cuz we have a we're just taking wine by the glass cuz there's multiple things here. So, prohibiting glass, I think that would be fantastic especially cuz there's a beach there. That would make it >> The correct correct Um D. >> D. >> Yeah. >> D, no bottles or glass containers allowed in the beach area. >> Yep. >> As part of um on our page 161 letter D. >> So, yeah, we just wanted to change it to the park premises. >> Park premises, that's okay. Okay, anything else on the the topic? Okay, then I'll go to the bottom. >> Bottom page, go ahead. I I do have a question on one section, but I'll wait. >> Okay. So, then the next one was about the horseback riding. Uh right now there's no trail designation um and in one of the older minutes it said they had to stay on designated trails. Um this summer we've had to clean up more species in the park than they've ever had to. Um and some unofficial complaints, too, of people riding their horses too fast or too fast in unsafe capacity. Um we're looking for options whether we want to prohibit the horses in the park or if you want to designate specific trails and areas with signage for them to go. >> You got to be super careful the way this is written in the reg. So, and now then we want people a lot of people have horses and they want to be able to ride their horses in the park. >> Mhm. >> And this is saying that to prohibit them, I I don't think that would make sense for us at all. But going back to this, you said something about uh they had to clean up species from the park on multiple occasions, unofficial complaints people riding too fast, and then wasn't there something about on the property line, too? >> Yeah, there was uh because we were getting complaints from St. John's. That's why we wanted to we had the designated trails because their property kind of butts up to it. >> That walking path goes right close to the the line and and the path and path. >> Yeah. >> You got house addresses. >> Well, yeah, I are people just are people just riding into the park or are they trail trail trail riding in and mounting that you know, packing up and riding throughout the park and then loading back up and leaving. Are they just riding there? >> That I'm not aware of. I've never heard of any. >> Would you like to come up to the podium, please? >> I'm really sorry. I just happened to be there when um I think what St. John's was maybe commenting on. >> You proceed. >> Yes, Misty Dryden, 6700 Viking Boulevard. Um my son went to preschool at St. John's. So, I had to be there on the last day of school event for the kids and there was a gentleman with young children and they came through um the walking path and where there's I don't know if you guys have been there, there's the beach area and then there's the pavilion and they came through and it was it was very chaotic. It was very unsafe for the children. I think that's maybe where if St. John's did bring that up, that would be where the concern is is they're com- they come down the walking path and it was kind of like a quick grab of all these preschoolers and get them to a safe space because they didn't have control of course, which I don't know how you can even you know how do you how you can stop that or or, you know, everybody rides their horses differently and not [clears throat] everybody has full control either, so. I just thought I'd mention that. I was I was there when this took place. Thanks. >> Sure. Come on, come up to the podium sir if you want to. You don't have to talk to the microphone if you don't >> Steve Schultz, 194th Lane. I know who's that is. They just moved in just last year. They have a bunch of foster kids. They're bus- bussing people in to ride horseback. They got a bunch of new horses. They're [clears throat] going down Ball to the park and they're they're not in very good control, put it that way. And so, what I'm concerned is is that when traffic starts up again, cuz right now they mainly move this since the construction. Once we get busy roads, if they're not in control of the horses, I I think just any one of you just going up and talking and make sure that they don't Make sure they have somebody that is um in control [clears throat] of the horse before they put a kid on and then bring them to the park and go nuts. So, that that's where they're coming from. They're They're literally right on the corner. It kind of looks like a I don't know uh third world setup now compared to where Lawn had it. But, um I don't know. I think they just need a little help, maybe. >> Thank you. >> Is that somewhere in there? >> Okay. Those two points. If they were the If the horses were riding on a hard surface, and the horse is currently ridden, that is not allowed. Two, if horses are being ridden in a reckless manner, creating a nuisance or endangering the safety of property or any park visitor, that is also unlawful. So, just making those two points. >> I think that Trump control is really important. >> Mhm. >> And they're clearly not in control. >> Correct. >> Any other comments? >> Except for most of it that we don't have any signs up that would say that they could stick around for the non-paved. >> There's also do Don't Didn't it say something about the horses can't go on the beach or something like that? I thought if you were in a park, horses could go in the water, but maybe not in the beach areas, but on this side or something. So, Here's my recommendation for this whole horse thing is why don't we flip this over to P&Z and let them take a look at it and bring a recommendation back to us on what should we have? >> Because it's not zoning. >> It's not zoning? So, we're going to figure it out ourselves. Okay. >> Yes. >> That's the mayor. >> Go ahead. >> Um if it were just a matter of the of horse poop on the trail. I guess my thought would be make people register their horse or something each year and >> You might get food. You might get You got to be careful with horse poop. >> mean the the safety issue is a different story. If I had been at the park and my kids were running around and a bunch of horses came running through, I would I would probably feel pretty strongly about not allowing horses there. And it sounds like your ordinance already covers that event, but um I'm never really sure what the answer is to this. I I get that Now then is sort of a horse town and I don't want to limit that, but >> [sighs and clears throat] >> I don't know. It's a safety issue for kids. >> Yeah, Mr. Mayor. >> It's not a one-horse town. >> Oh, wait. Council member Bryant is up next. >> Mr. Mayor, I'm going to ask a horse owner, is it fair to look at having number six, basically something about however you word it, clean up after your horse? >> So, for instance, we we tend to we tend to trailer in the Rum River Park. Um on set when we when we ride our horses. So, we trailer in. And and the Anoka County Parks has a policy that where you park your trailer, you need to clean [clears throat] up after your horse. We're not expected to clean up after our horses if, you know, it happens on the on the trail itself. And those those trails are used by >> Go ahead. >> Finish it. >> Those trails are used by walkers, bikers, uh skiers in the wintertime. There's limited horse trails in the wintertime so that, you know, we're not messing up uh what what Anoka County is doing as far as grooming the trails. And I I just you know, the the position that I take on horse horse manure is it's, you know, it's it's not like stepping in a pile of dog crap. It's it's digested grass for the most part. It's, you know, not um I I don't have a real issue with it and I think it's something you just have to let pass. >> Um For a little bit of time. >> But but at another county as I recall, there are designated horse trails. >> There are designated horse trails. >> So, if a horse is defecating on a designated horse trail, that would be different than potentially somewhere else in our park in the city. >> Or on the beach. >> Yeah. So So, as an example, where I used to ride as a kid in Illinois, um we would trail ride in the Lake County parks. There was a There was a lake. Well, they had rules about We weren't even allowed to take horses swimming in the lake. Of course, we were teen you know, teenagers, so we would see what we could get away with. But, there was still a policy against it and it was posted. Yes, Sam. >> Close to me. >> Go ahead, Fish. >> Should we take a step of allowing staff to order signs giving some of the rules where they can and cannot be in the water, you know, on the on the asphalt, um and maybe that will prevent some of the issues. >> Yeah, take your question back to the staff. >> How about they make a plan? Um here's the trails. So, you draw a map and say, "Here's the trails they should ride on, here's not." They get some input from the residents to say, "Does this make sense?" I'm not a horse person that can answer this. I just I'm very sensitive to horses. Cuz there's lots of people that have them. They poop on our road all the time. It's great. They just kick it out. They kick it in my yard all the time. It's great. I love it. It's best fertilizer. So, the poop doesn't scare me at all. But, you got to be in control and it's already covered in here for being under control. So, that's what I would request to go back to the staff to go and develop a plan. You guys are good with that? >> I think that's a great idea, Mr. Fish. >> Okay. So, we can Now, what else do you have on this thing? You have final section of parking section ordinances? >> Yes. >> Oh, yes. Yes, this is important. >> It was um designating some areas for parking for uh truck and trailer or you know cars with a trailer on it and also an area to where the fishing pier is. They have some of the >> Like boat specifically? >> for that area because the beach goers use up all of it. >> So I have experience I tried to launch a boat and you could not park the vehicle and wait for somebody to move because you have a boat and a trailer or a car trailer truck and a trailer. So what that there's no signage at all and the way people park you know there are long stalls for your boat trailer and your truck and they just park randomly. It's just I like this this doesn't make a lot of sense. So some amount of signage could very much make sense for us um to say hey the first six stalls are just for boats or vehicles with trailers cuz it could be a jet ski, it could be a kayak trailer, it could be for canoes or whatever the case is. But something like that to give them at least a place to park and then the remainder of parking could be used for fishing pier whatever the case is. So I'm just trying to is this part of my recommendation on this one is to try to get it a little bit more organized cuz it was really disorganized. >> I'll just say that. >> So it just is just being clear there's an ordinance that you can't park it at the unless you're you can't park there's there's only you can I know there's rules and regulations regarding parking at by the fishing pier and parking so but yeah signage definitely is going to help. >> I I think that was the biggest thing is the signage to give guidance. >> Mhm. >> Cuz also if you have some signage it probably could be enforced and right now >> You can enforce it it's just it'd be nice if there were signs that are going there and the signs are towing your car. >> But yeah and that wasn't even recommend towing it's like please don't park there or something. But I think with signs it makes it it's just a great way to communicate with setting the expectations really what I would say. >> Okay. >> Mr. Speaker I I have is a question for the this this This will be for the council and the clerk and it pertains to section D. And >> Page? >> Page 162. Um is it currently unlawful for someone with a um a permit to carry a firearm to enter one of our city parks with their firearm? And is is it posted? >> That I do not, but I do know it's not posted. That would be part of the charter amendment. >> even if they post a sign? So >> Go ahead. >> I I just I just have a I just have a question. We have We have you know, a lot of residents um that quite a few that I know that have their permit and they might carry their pistol with them and they might might not be aware of this and >> And And how I read 4-4-3, letter D, number one, possession, it shall be unlawful for any person to have in their possession fire, discharge, or cause to fire or discharge across any gun or firearm. So, if you have a gun in your possession, it is unlawful, but I would say that needs to be looked at because if you have a legit permit, you should be able to carry a firearm. >> I would agree with that. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> I will ask for the fees. >> Justice. Okay. Thanks for the clarification. >> Can I make a suggestion if you do make your ordinance change if it's possible to redline it like the rest of the rest of them? >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> All right. So, did you take enough things out of 158 or do we need to make a motion on what we want to pull off the request for council action on 158? >> You know, I've got enough notes and I'll bring it back next month. >> Perfect. All right. So, that takes care of 158. So, that means we're on old business. Discuss the noise ordinance. All right, Steve still here. Old business. So, we are on page 169. Uh discussions on Bob is not online. So, what we did as a council has asked Bob to draft an ordinance for the noise ordinance. Uh from the July meeting. Um he needs done so. So, it is a one-page starting on page 170. So, I'll just say I got a lot of feedback from residents on this. This is a significantly a controversial issue anytime you try to in- I'll say enforce, but it's really um dealing with how residents feel of that you're trying to regulate something that they're doing. Um I had many people talk to me and not one person said, "Hey, please go ahead with the noise ordinance." So, everybody said, "Hey, we're not then. Um we like our chickens. We If you don't like that, you can move back to the city." I'm just giving you some of the feedback that I got from residents. So, I think it's important. I also have uh Mr. Schultz here stating and he he's played it online as they This is the noise and it's specifically from a guinea hen. So, that'll it'll frame up the conversation. Um the Uh uh Attorney Rookie did draft up uh the >> It wasn't from >> It wasn't from online. It was from my backyard. So, it it wasn't like I just pulled a guinea hen's recording off and played it. I was I was in my backyard and that's what I'm dealing with. Sorry. >> Anywhere from a distance from what how far from the property line are you when you're recording this? >> I I I have recordings from inside my house, from my dining room table. >> The one you placed it at, sir? >> Uh that's about halfway from my patio door to the back side. I think actually I think it was me walking towards the back side. So regardless, it's obnoxious and nobody should have to live with that. >> Okay, so I'd like to open it up to the council for a discussion on this. Mr. Mayor, go ahead. >> Yeah, I get that sensitivity of not wanting to over regulate the sounds of animals in the middle of these lots of farms. I think you know, this this issue is a little different than that. I mean I think the whole issue is this this chicken coop or this guinea and coop is right on the property line. And I think that's really the issue. I'm concerned that the ordinance as drafted not even addressing your concerns because there's an exception that says it doesn't apply if they're you know, making their noise because of external stimulus. So anytime he goes out in the yard to do whatever you're doing in your yard, we agitate up those guineas and they start going and they don't shut up until you leave. I mean this ordinance wouldn't even apply to that. I think there's always going to be an external stimulus causing a hen to go off, whether it's a dog walking by or loud noise and who knows. So I'm concerned that we're I guess over ordinance in this and it's not even achieving our goal. But I do have sympathy to you. I I certainly do. And I I think it's unfair that you have to deal with this and that this this coop is right on the property line where it's as close as possible as it as it could be to your house on your property. >> I mean they could easily put it on the back property line and it would have been the farthest away from all neighbors. Because what they do is they wanted easiest in the winter time so they don't have to walk as far. >> We we do have an ordinance on smaller properties about how close the property line chicken coops can be. I think perhaps the property that his neighbor is on is too big for that ordinance to apply, but I would rather see this this specific issue be dealt with rather than drafting an ordinance that encompasses all of North Bend and any and all of the land. Because if there's a specific issue Yeah, I guess I would rather see it have something to do with property line. >> It's like if you go that route, then they're grandfathered in and that's the reason we didn't go that route. >> So, we went to specifically to noise, but >> That's right. You're right. >> Anybody else got any Well, we can both and then and then address where where at least going forward where it gets placed is an issue and then deal with the noise, There's no reason we can't update um the the ordinance that we currently have regarding animals and and how that affects things, but but the noise issue also seems that it needs to be addressed. >> You You know, I can't shoot a gun in North Bend unless I'm a certain distance away from the house. I don't know why you can't do the same with a annoying nuisance sound. >> One more thing that the way it's written uh people uh so, if you take that term, um I would like to remove that completely. Um We've got peacocks that are right on the road from us and and they're loud, but I think it's pretty cool. So, I didn't know what peafowl was until I looked it up, but um I I Does anybody have a concern if we remove peafowl from this altogether? >> No. >> Mr. Mayor. >> Go ahead. >> I would ask also ask that rooster be removed. >> That one >> I I don't own any of them, um but I do know that people like the roosters cuz it helps um Um as a deterrent for some of predators that come into that, the the the chickens and such. Um I I did stop numerous times. I never knocked on your door, um but I stopped at different times. Um there were times that I heard them, and there were times that I didn't. But the times that I did hear them, I couldn't have a phone conversation cuz I tried to do something else while I was there, and it was very loud, and I I have sympathy for you. >> Thank you. >> Um I guess what what really saddened me is the response from Melbourne residents on the different Facebook pages. Um disrespectful, um telling people to move. This gentleman's lived here for 20 years, 20-something, and this neighbor told him to move He went over to try to have a uh professional conversation with him as neighbor to neighbor, and he was told to move. Um I don't know how long the other people have lived there. I don't I don't know. Um but people online on those Facebook posts were acting at about a fourth-grade level, and I would think we would expect better of that of our residents. Put yourself in his position and what he had to listen to. There was also a post that said we had changed the ordinance. That was a lie. And I'll leave you to that. Um that was a lie. And people now believe that that happened. And never went back and corrected it, anything like that. Um but again, it it saddened me that people called residents names. They don't know who the complaint was unless they looked in the documentation. And they're but you're you're willing to call people names, tell them to move, we don't want you here, you're a cityot. I That was just so disrespectful. I That's what saddens to it >> We can't control what >> I know. I know. Yes. Are we not all adults? >> Mr. Go ahead. >> [clears throat] >> I I something that I would like to put into context something I'd like to put into context if because we didn't have this information at the time that we had this last discussion and that was uh >> [snorts] >> the clerk was kind enough to put together some data and I have I have the email and there's there's nothing there's no personal data in this far as who filed complaints. Um so I can put one in the back of the room and provide them to each of the council members but to frame this up for the residents as a complaint for the city it requires a written complaint. >> [snorts] >> Since January of 2024 we have had a total of 16 written complaints about all different subjects. Four of those complaints involved roosters or fowl chicken like fowl. For [snorts] two of those complaints we already have an ordinance in place because two of those situations the residents had less than three acres. So we already have an ordinance that disallows them from having a rooster and so they remedied that situation. Um the other two um it doesn't look like there was any follow up on them. Um and then you know it's it's a variety of things. Motorcycles at at a restaurant um squeaky windmill I went out on that one that windmill's been taken down. Some gun noise. We hear about you know people complain about gun noise. Um and a variety of other things and and no repeat um complaints from one single resident. So I bring this up because I was on I took the impression from our last meeting that we had a serious especially serious issue with the roosters, so roosters got added. And I I voiced my opinion about that on that other day. But the other the other thing is it 16 can total complaints to me for me in 32 months is not a huge issue. >> [applause] >> Um and I I've had multiple residents approach me and and they were very professional about it and they said if the council starts passing ordinances like this, it won't stop. If I'm not I'm not un- empathetic to Mr. Schultz. We had um a resident near us that had guinea guinea fowl and their their [clears throat] birds would actually come across the street to our neighbor and roost in a tree right right near our house. And so, you know, we are very familiar with the noise that guinea fowl make. Um I appreciate you taking peacocks off cuz the only problem we had with the peacock was one of Tommy Geyer's from the petting zoo and he would jump on Kevin Fallon's truck or he'd or he'd end up or he'd end up captured in somebody's somebody's garage and that was a that was always the entertaining part of it. Um but if we start if we start passing these ordinances, it it's you know, I could I we I've got a neighbor and sometimes I get irritated, you know, with the the four-wheelers constantly buzzing around on a you know, when I'm out in the in the evening or afternoon on a weekend working. And so, where does where does it stop? It's That's a That's a serious question we have to ask. People People move to Nowthen because we call ourselves, you know, this is country rural living. And that's that's the number one thing I hear from most residents that they want us to maintain. So, I think we need to we need to put some more thought into this. >> Well, you get two more examples of other things that I have heard from residents. So, if you put it it goes on to what I'll talk about Councilman Blazer stated, which was, well, if you implement it for chickens, a lot of things keep coming up about these chickens. These are not chickens, but guinea hens. What about cows? Well, if you take a calf away from the cow, it's going to move for 24 to 48 hours. Are you going to ban cows? And so, that's exactly what what you stated is it keeps going on and on and on. These are the examples that I got from residents. Cows are one of them. And it could be horses, it could be anything. The key thing was people don't want to be told what they can and cannot do. End of the day, they want to they move out here for a reason and they don't want additional ordinances. That's the struggle is when you have a neighbor that won't listen, what's the best way to do it? So, one thing I did um Yeah. No, I don't Does anybody else have comments on this? >> Mr. Mayor. >> Go ahead. >> Um I I would just say that as a council, we're responsible to respond to residents' complaints. We did that. The way to do it is to give information. We asked our attorney to provide us information, and now we're having that discussion. That's [snorts] how a council operates. People may not like that, but that's how a council operates. We have an open dialogue on it and we we we discuss our opinions and then we come to a decision as to what we want to do. Um but you can't just make decisions without information. And and that we followed that. We had a good discussion. We asked the attorney to draw something up. When we asked them to draw it up, it was not it was not my intention that it was something we were going to move over with. We can't know what we're going to move forward with until we see it. And then when we see it, we still have discussions. There could be changes to it. We could we could move it, we could deny it. But that's our job is to respond to residents and as any other resident that has a complaint would want to be treated. And have council listen to the complaint. We listen to it. We ask the attorney for information. We have that information. And now we need to make a decision. >> And discussion. So, if you look at how it's proposed right here, we remove what's currently people. Your concern was that it still doesn't address the issue. >> Yeah, and you were adding an ordinance doing to address the specific issue that we're trying to address. >> So. >> Even with the given information, even if it did address it, I would like to vote on that. And we can also do a vote to say send it back to the attorney. But, I don't know that we have enough support to move forward with it. And I'm just going to throw it out there. Um so, I'd like to move forward with the vote taking out what's currently people. Um and move it move make that motion. So, I'd make a motion to um the ordinance amending city code No, I'm not going to make a motion. >> No, someone else can make a motion. >> So. >> Mr. Mayor Mr. Mayor >> Council member name >> I would move that we deny the proposed ordinance. >> Okay. >> Not sympathy as I have for them and anyone else that has to live next to them. Um I just don't I I mean that's a couple seconds. >> No, I'll second yours. >> Um one of the things is is um enforcement of it. I mean, we're going to ask the sheriff to go out there and enforce that. Um it I just it's very difficult. It doesn't change this situation cuz it's not retroactive. Um so, again, it's the enforcement piece of it is difficult. And having something on the books that you can't enforce is not worth having the paper is really not. >> [snorts] >> So. >> Any other conversation? >> Mr. Mayor >> Go ahead, Mr. Smith. >> Does that mean we're going to we're going to go back and and remove our um current ordinance about about animal noises? >> This was a supplemental >> I understand that. So what are we already saying? >> Right now just a motion is to discuss what's on the table. So that's our current motion and it's got a second. So would you like to go are you >> No, I'm just trying to figure out so what are we if we're denying this motion we have we we have the nuisances. We have a nuisance ordinance already for animal for animals um making noises but I think the issue comes back to how do we enforce it? So if we have a we have an ordinance already written about about making no animals make a public nuisance public nuisance for any animal to to make noises over the the 5 minute time frame that we already have. >> I think we're specifically for dogs is the way it's written. I don't have the copy in front of me unless you have >> Well, I have I have the ordinance from the website in front of me that says the owner of any animal shall prevent it from committing any act which constitutes a public nuisance. It's a public nuisance for any animal to bark, bay, cry, howl, or make any other noise repeatedly over at least a 5 minute period of time within a 30 second or less lapse of time between each animal noise during a 5 minute period. >> That's right. >> Now granted is it it's it that says any animals but previous sections may be referring to dogs but that's I think where this came to. >> Well, yeah it's under the dog section. Which meant you know all of the animals I believe that they meant was any species any kind of a dog or whatever but >> Well. >> That was the way that it was read by attorney Ruby. >> But if that's but I'm just saying if that's is it if that's the way the attorney's written then I then the section that he was referring to this even amending it does isn't even in that section. >> No, because that was about dogs. >> I understand hear that yes. >> So we're the motion and the second was just to deal with this and nothing else. Any other comments? Here we go. We'll vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed? Motion carries. Ordinance is denied. Okay, next up. Summary of vacation. Mayor Clark to sign. So I think uh Councilmember >> I think we got it. >> May I have the council um At our meeting in July, we discussed the special election. Um I have a memo in the packet with verbiage from the two different meetings that um are related to my the issue. So that my memo addresses that accusation at the July 27th Council meeting by Councilmember Glazer. At that meeting, Councilmember Glazer stated that in 2025, Natalie Clerk Natalie Johnson missed the deadline to notify Anoka County of the need for an August 12th, 2025 special election. And And I'm not carrying anybody's water here. So Natalie didn't put this put me up to this. This isn't me. Um but that did not occur. The memo I provided uh provides uh verbiage from the February 25th Council meeting in which Councilmember Glazer and Ms. Johnson discussed the deadline. However, the deadline in reference in that conversation was tied to a different Anoka special election date, one the Council had not selected. The Council chosen date was August 12th, and for that date, no deadline was missed. In fact, statutory notice deadline for the August 12th election had not yet arrived at the time the Council later voted to defer the election. Given the seriousness of the accusation, I respectfully respectfully request Council Member Glazer publicly apologize to Clerk Johnson and the residents of our city for his July 27th statement. His claim that she missed the deadline is not supported by the factual record. The timeline shows that Ms. Johnson fulfilled her responsibilities and that the formal notice to the Open Meetings Act was not yet due. Also, remember Glazer, you frequently expressed concerns about the integrity of your fellow council members, yet in this instance, it was your own statement that was incorrect. You asserted a You asserted a failure that did not occur and you did so publicly. The residents deserve accuracy from their elected officials and City Clerk Johnson deserves to have her professional reputation protected from unfounded claims. Your misrepresentation [clears throat] of the events came at the expense of truth and at the expense of the public service to carry out their duties. For that reason, I believe an apology is warranted. >> Mr. Mancha >> Sure. I am addressing Council Member Rainville's letter about my comments at our July 27th meeting. I appreciate her concerns for the city. Uh excuse me, her concerns for the city staff and for our residents. I know after talking to many residents, there have been great concerns about where the council has discussed and soon to promise residents the chance to have special election to open to for the open council seat. And the residents [clears throat] have been waiting and asking when the special election will be held. Every time the council has discussed this issue, my opinion was to hold the special special election so that we could let our residents decide who would represent them. At the July meeting, I indicated that I had said that in 2025, Clerk Natalie Johnson missed a deadline, but it was in fact the council majority who voted not to hold the special election. Therefore, no deadline was missed. If an apology is owed, I believe it should be from the council majority to the now then residents for not allowing them the chance to select their own representative because the council majority was unable or unwilling to hold [clears throat] a special election in 2025 or 2026. Respectfully, Councilman now that's it. >> So, you're not going to apologize to me. >> So, >> You know, Mr. Mayor >> May May I May I ask a question? >> Yes. >> Since since you're going to confront me about this sir. >> I respectfully ask you to apologize. >> So, I'm respectfully asking you if you're going to apologize for things that you've done in this council chambers. Are you going to take accountability and stand accountable for the things that you've done in the last year? >> I said Mr. Mayor >> 2021 No, no, this guy No, this is what happens This is what happens every time. >> this for for political clips for your race. >> You're doing the same thing. >> I'm not up for an election and I won't be. >> But I am. I'm running for an office. >> But I asked for an apology for something that was stated incorrectly in regards to an employee. That's it didn't have anything to do with me voting for or against a special election. It had to do with your comment about someone. >> Ms. Johnson I would ask that you would please forgive me for what I said at the July July 27th special special meeting in regards to the special election. I am sincerely sorry for for the mistake that I made and what I did. And if if it's okay with the council, I would I'd to have a discussion with the mayor. In that very meeting? In that very This pertains This pertains to that meeting. In that very same meeting Council member Swenson besmirched my name by claiming that that I did something that neither Council member Bryan nor attorney Ruby was able to validate after the meeting and said I caught I made a mistake with something that I did which involved getting the assistant attorney involved, costing the city money. I'm not asking for an apology. I don't expect an apology. But my name was besmirched in that very same meeting and and I wasn't even given I I wasn't even given the opportunity to know what I did. And then our mayor now wants to He's challenging me on my integrity when the things that he has done in the last 20 months have been totally [clears throat] unacceptable. The way he has treated people, from the way he treated Council member Bryan and slammed his hand down on the table when Council member Bryan offered to help with a meeting with a resident, to how he's treated me in meetings, to the way he treated Randy Drye Drye and called him a broke-back old man. And now he's asking me for an apology? That takes a lot of guts. >> Your apology was just as worthless as Council member Swenson's >> So I I understand that and I apologize to Ms. Johnson and I'm sincere about that and I I hope she will forgive me. >> At the 27 July you made multiple comments that were not about the special election. So Council member Swenson tried to state something and I said please stop and he stopped. So if you believe your name was drug through something, it actually was stopped and nothing was done. >> No, it was said. I did not make multiple comments outside of that meeting. >> That's the comments outside >> I did not. The attorney directed us not to do that and I didn't. Council member Swenson was the one that added >> You brought up additional comments about Council member spending additional money and that didn't have anything to do with the special election. So, now it's my turn. So, as a leader we communicate goals. So, you made a statement about integrity and leadership. As a leader, we communicate goals and expectations. We empower our teams, and we help them grow and succeed. A leader shows empathy when mistakes happen, and focuses on solving problems rather than assigning blame. Councilor Glazer, did you do your part to ensure your team understood the importance of completing and filing the special election form on time? Councilor Glazer, did you, when a team member made a mistake, did you support them or throw stones? Did you build the team, or did you tear them down? Did you come prepared with solutions? What I witnessed from you, you did not demonstrate leadership. You made it clear in a difficult situation, your priority was to assign blame rather than work together towards a solution. That's not leadership. Your approach continuously is more focused on proving a point, creating conflict, and being right rather than finding solutions. How does this help council move forward and work together to resolve resolve issues? You've questioned other people's integrity, >> [clears throat] >> but I think it's fair to reflect on your own. Are you being honest with yourself and acting according to your own values? Are you saying things and doing things what others believe expect you to do? It's not the responsibility of the council to micromanage staff. If that's the case, then we either have a wrong processes, or we have the wrong employees. In this case, a mistake occurred. It was acknowledged openly and honestly. Yet, you still chose to criticize over collaborate. A true leader would have shown compassion, understanding, and a commitment to solving the problem. I do believe you bring different viewpoints to the council, which makes our council stronger, and we can develop stronger However, when someone lacks the basic qualities of a leadership and chooses to tear others down over an honest mistake rather than to help resolve the issue, it serves no one. Every member of the council has a responsibility to work collaboratively. When your approach is driven by conflict instead of cooperation, it certainly does not serve the residents of the island. Mr. Payne. >> So, the first thing that I would like to say is that I was accused of accusing the clerk of doing something unethical. And that that came from a a phone conversation that I [clears throat] had prior to having a conversation with Attorney Lewis. And the gist of that conversation was when Ms. Johnson told me that there's nothing that the city can do about it and it's now in the attorney's hands and it has to go to the district court, I said, "That's very convenient." That is where that accusation of me blaming her for what happened came from. So, this is my first time getting to to to defend that. I didn't try to defend that when when I got blamed for that when when she gave her apology. And I appreciate her apology. But it still doesn't change the fact that they that the residents were promised a special election and I still hold you hold you accountable for the for the failure of that not happening. >> Okay. That was a mistake. We admitted it. >> But Mr. Mayor, I I find it it's I'm almost at a loss. >> You should go back and reflect on what leadership really means. You're You're missing the point. >> You have to let me You have to let me finish my statement. >> I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not saying >> [snorts] >> I think you need to do the same, sir. You You You After a meeting in in 2025 you confronted a resident in a in a hostile way. Multiple lawn court multiple Let me finish. I I let you read what you had to say though. Multiple >> Why don't you tell the truth cuz you weren't even in here. >> I was here. >> Oh, I was here. >> This is not about you. THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU. THERE WERE MULTIPLE THERE WERE MULTIPLE people >> I'm ready to >> If you make a motion to adjourn >> You're a coward. >> You were a doctor at college. >> You're a coward. >> You have no integrity. >> Stop. >> You don't know what leadership is. >> We had one item on the agenda. >> I NEED >> YOU WANT TO >> I need >> You want to adjourn the meeting >> I need an opportunity to I need an opportunity to finish what I had to say because because he's drag he's drag he's he's dragging me through the mud now. I gave you an opportunity. >> You were not in here. >> Okay. >> There There are There are multiple residents in this room right now that were here when it happened. And had to actually move another resident out of the way when you raised your hand towards Mr. Dry. >> That's a complete and total lie. >> Well, OH MY GOSH. >> OKAY, WE'RE MOVING ON OR THIS is done. >> I I missed Mayor. I move that we approve the claims and the data access policy and then the administration >> I'll second the approval of the claims and the policy. >> Any other discussion on the claims? Yes, sir. >> I I think it's important that the residents know >> going to talk about the claims? >> That's what I'm talking about. >> Okay. >> I think it's important that the residents know that the cost to to correct the special election that we were supposed to have in the courts with Mr. Ruby was $5,250. >> Holy crap. >> Any other discussion on the claims? Move it to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> And the next is the data access policy. >> I'm on page of data access policy. >> Page 75. >> It is 75. 875 >> You You want me to talk about it? >> So, there's there's two different versions in this uh document. There's There's pages 75, 6, 7, 8 and 9 uh with the and 80 where there's a data request form. And then there's another version of that, but and I have a question about this particular version because this one requires um verifying identity. And I I don't understand why do we have situations where people have to identify who they are? Um there there's two different things in the Minnesota statute um where it it it regards to you know, public data that residents would have access to. They don't by law, they don't have to provide identification for. Do we have situations that now now we are requiring identification [clears throat] for people to request public data? >> I think the public data gets to them if they don't identify themselves. >> So, when when I say identify themselves, standards for identity for verifying identity. [snorts] The following constitute proof of identity. An adult >> Which page are you on? >> This is page 86. So, they're actually having to provide forms of identification to prove who they are. One part of the statute for public information does not require Does this only pertain to when somebody is asking for information that pertains to a minor child? >> The difference between the form on page 80 where it doesn't have a line item referring to identification compared to the form on page 86 where or 85 where it does have the staff verification that identification was provided. >> That's what you're referring to. >> Yes, correct. Yes. >> So, what's the difference between the two forms? Why do we need to verify identity on page 85 versus page 86? That's what I gathered. >> So, I referenced I I was able to I only referenced one other city. Um the city was the city of Chaska. Their information popped up for their data access policy and it it is very much like the first verbage closure that's in our packet. >> I agree. >> So, start it would start on page 75 and go to page 80. Is this their for instance, their city policy on accessing data data request does not require providing some form of identification. So, what are we what are we actually approving? Which one are we actually approving? Do we >> [clears throat] >> Do we need this one that's asking for a form of identification? >> Mr. Mayor. >> Go ahead. >> It does say in the policy and I get the confusion and it is confusing. I don't know the answer, but it does say in the policy that city of Malden cannot require you as a member of the public to identify yourself or explain the reason for your data request. So, I guess I I also would be a little confused as to Let's see. >> Why is there two separate forms and they look very similar but different? One's a data One's data request form and one just says data subjects. So, You know, there's multiple questions that need to be answered. >> I can go back and Dahlia [clears throat] has to go through it, but she worked on this with attorney Ruby based upon the new the statutes that said it had to be updated. >> [snorts] >> So, I can get more information and bring it back. >> And we'll go over it and send it back to staff. What do we need to do? >> I'll second that. Any discussion from the staff? We'll put it to a vote. All those in favor say aye. >> Aye. >> All those opposed, nay. >> I move to adjourn. >> I'll second. >> Adjourn the meeting.