I was justecting All right, let's go ahead and get started. We'll open the meeting today. Today is 8th September 2026 and we'll start the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Mr. >> Johnson, the roll call, please. >> Mayor >> here. >> Member Bryant >> here. >> Wazer >> here. Sweetson >> here. >> Council member Rainville here. Planner Nash here. Um both the lieutenant and the fire chief are excused today. And in place of engineer Nelson, we have Isaac Martin from Hawinson Anderson and finance consultant. >> Yep. >> And myself Natalie Johnson. No. >> Okay. Thank you very much. So, uh, when we go to the agenda, one one of the recommendations was to move number 14, uh, old business. Um, we have, uh, fire department here. So, I'd like to move that one. That's for the concrete concrete deeper and move it up underneath number seven. So, it be like a 7.5. That was the only recommendation I had for adjustment on the agenda. If that's >> what >> could we move 6D, please? I've got a couple questions on something that's in the text there. >> Pull out 60. >> Yes. >> Put it to the end. >> If we do that, can we just move it while we have uh the city staff here? Can we move it uh put it like 7.6 then? Right on. So, I would assume that's a pretty short conversation. >> Sure. Great. >> Does that work? >> Anybody else for >> Mr. Mayor? Go ahead, sir. If there are no other amendments, I make a motion to approve the agenda as amended. Second, >> any discussion hearing? None. Let's move to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. I. >> Opposed. Motion carries. Agenda is approved. We'll move to public forum. So for public forum, please um you can take up to three minutes. Please state your name and address. Um we've got a list of eight people signed up. So Justin, you're first up. >> Hello, Mr. Mayor. Councilman Council, as I said, my name is Justin Mo 182. Sorry about that. As I said earlier, my name is Justin Mo. I'm here to formally announce a candidacy for valid city councils that can put a name and face tonight. to who I am. If you see my signs, my last name has a lot of vowels. It's French and I can't really help that, but it's easiest pronunciation is low J. Uh my wife and I moved out here roughly 11 years ago for the same reasons. So very many of the residents I've been talking to have also either moved here for or chose to live here. The quiet rural country feel of our beautiful small city. I decided to run for council from my time getting to know so many of the residents of now through being a veteran of now farmers market for the past nine years or so. Uh like most of you up here I've either met or got to know you through the market as well and u not only have I gotten to know so many of the residents they've gotten to know and trust the real genuine community. I've heard their shared love of living where it still feels country and also their concerns over excessive taxation that's suspended. They felt ignored and I feel I hold them on my service if elected to represent them the people of Melvin. I never started doing the farmers market with the intent of running for office. Quite the opposite actually. I never envisioned getting involved in politics and but doing farmers market changed me as a person. It forced the old me and antisocial kind of introvert to become a social extrovert. It taught me how to listen to people and have respectful conversations. And it really showed me how many truly great and amazing members of our community we have here. Now I can't go to the Prussian show or the heritage festival without constantly running people to the farmers market. I've chosen to run so that in future I won't look back with shame of regret for doing nothing because we were a small town small town in Charlotte we all love. This way at least I can say I did what I could as a little person and that's what each of us has the possibility and option of doing in July of an election year going down to the city office allowing me to run. As I've stated previously I have little to no personal gain for doing this. I'm not doing this out of ego or pride. I really do this for the good people of Melbourne and for my children's future living. Thank you for your time. >> Stacy Paris up next. >> Um Stacy Perez, 2023 South Street. At our last meeting, I did talk to um Scott Orman about black top. I got updated um estimate for black top. Um, so I do have that. And then also we had I did um talk to them. They don't have a problem with terrorist companies doing the dirt work. Um, talking with Paul tonight. Um, he said if we do move forward and the homeowners do agree and everybody agrees on a price and we're going to move forward, he would suggest doing the carts, the two culvers that should be replaced on that road. A couple people had addressed the big hill um out there. Um, somebody has suggested 2 feet, somebody in I think Bill adjust 4 feet. Paul thinks that 4T minimum should come out out of that hill and um all that stuff should be done before the laptop gets done. Um, if the city could fly supply the culverts and when it comes time to cutting off the hill, if they could supply a couple trucks and my husband will put a dump truck on also to remove all the dirt and then I think there's like three or four driveways that it's going to affect by taking out that hill. He knows that he's also have to fix the end of their driveways to make it grade better and slope better for taking out that 4ft cut. Um, according to the black topping people, um, generally the shut off for black topping is, um, Thanksgiving time, but if it we get frost before that, then they're done. So, that's generally from what I gather from them. So, basically, that's all I got. >> Any questions for me? >> We'll come back to that. Okay. >> Next up is Deb. Hello, Deb Dryen, 6680 Viking Boulevard. I have a request for apology for my husband. I believe my husband Randy deserves an apology from the mayor, Shane, for the way that he was treated following a meeting last year. After that meeting, Shane approached Randy and got extremely close to him, getting right in directly in his face. Grandandy asked Shane if he was going to hurt him. Hit him. Shane responded, "No, I ain't going to hit. No, I ain't going to hit you. You broke back old man." Regardless of that was said before or after the exchange, Shane's behavior was intimidating enough that Randy generally genuinely knew believed that he was going to be physically contact uh confronted. I do not believe that a mayor should conduct himself that way towards a resident. Elected officials should have responsibility to treat people they represent with respect and professionalism even when there is disagreement or tension. Getting directly into a resident's face and behaving in that way makes a person fear that they are going to get struck in my opinion is completely inappropriate. I also have concerns about Facebook posts in which Shane denied the incident ever happened. Those posts have since been removed. I understand that social media posts can be deleted for many reasons, but given the circumstances, their removal raises questions about transparency and accountability. I'm not asking for anything unreasonable. and simply believe that when an elected official's actions cause a resident to feel threatened and intimidated, the appropriate thing would be to acknowledge it and and uh give an apology. Thank you. >> Randy, [clears throat] 6680 Viking. The reason I'm up there is last meeting it seemed like the topic goes integrity came up. I'm here to talk about work or can said that chain came up and threatened me [clears throat] one of the meetings last spring and chain said it didn't happen. It did. I was standing in a group of people in this room and I have a conversation and she came up to me and I did call me half off which at the point it looked like he got extremely agitated right up my face and I asked him what are you going to do hit I said, "No, I'm not going to hit that." At that point where I asked if he was going to hit me, I could feel the pain in my back already knowing I was going to hurt if he did. Um notes I can go right to the point right now. I am sorry for what I said. I should remain professional. I was initiated by an FU by you. I did not touch you. My hands were at my sides and I was wrong for what I said and I was wrong how I reacted. story on Facebook. I've done nothing. I will tell you that. And I've never denied that it happened. I denied the state that when I was talked about last last month, person accusing me wasn't even there. He didn't know what happened. You know what happened as long as I as well as I was wrong and I'm sorry. Okay. But you were wrong by saying that it didn't happen. I've never said it didn't happen. I've never claimed that it did not happen. It's in the meaning. It's not a meaning. I would have never denied it happening because it happened right here. And you and I both know that it happened. I did not anticipate a resident saying that to me as walking out the door. I did not anticipate. So since then on my answer is going to be have a good night. Whether whether you say something derogatory or not in this case I [clears throat] believe that uh you have as much ownership as I do because you provoked it and I said some words that I regret >> and I should not have done I don't see how I >> said in your you looked at me Randy and said f you. That's exactly what you did. You totally provoked the situation. I was walking out the door minding my own business that night. >> What's that? >> You knew I wasn't agitated that night. >> I have no idea if you're a >> You come right up. >> What? >> I have no idea if you're agitated or not, Randy. I don't know your bill. >> You just charged me $9,200 for absolutely nothing. >> This bill was prior to me even coming in here. Randy, >> I did not charge you for this. Was taking responsibility for something that you signed up for. That's >> ranking saying I'm Then you >> obviously I was educated. >> Okay. I didn't know you were educated and I didn't know walking by you was going to provoke you to say tell me to f off. How would I know? >> You also stated in one of your post that I stepped in front of you which I absolutely did not do. I could hardly move and I was okay. >> I'm sorry. >> Next one. Jeff Pon. Thank you, Mayor Council. Um, my name is Jeff Bean, 18959 Malan Boulevard Northwest, and I'm here tonight to address Mayor Hibin's comments from the August 15th city council meeting because I was in the audience that night and had to sit through the their lecture on leadership in your title. Um, you stated that true leader shows compassion, understanding, and a commitment to solving the problem. And yet, you directed your comments at a particular council member who happens to be running against you for the office of mayor this year. You did not address the council that night. You were very specific as you read your script. You can read about leadership calls in a prepared script, but we are not saying that you're demonstrating that you can walk that walk as indicated by Mr. Dry. Um, at the August 18th meeting after lecture to council member Glazer, he brought up some examples of your past leadership and one of those was the encounter with Mr. Dry. You told Mr. blazer. He could not speak about your concentration, Mr. D, Mr. Dryen, because he was not in the room at the time it happened and you claimed it was an outright lie. So, you in effect called him alive, but that was excusable because he wasn't in the room. He was outside along with Mr. Dryen's son when you encountered them and a comment was made. He walked away, walked back, discussed, walked away, and walked back. That's not stepping down from confrontation. is one not one incident with Mr. Dryen here. I was standing right next to Mr. Dryen. His daughter-in-law was standing right next to me. A council member here was standing next to him on the other side. A former council member was standing next to him. His wife was behind. And I will tell you it did appear again. Did you raise a hand and touch it? No. But all of us that were standing next to him thought it was going to happen. That's why he had to ask you, are you going to hit me? I was getting ready to intervene. The council member grabbed the resident and jumped in between them because it looked like there was going to be an incident. We had a council member here yelling at you to to stand out, to back off. So, there were a number of residents in the room that I think you should also apologize. I appreciate after all this time, you finally have an apology for Mr. driving. But for those of us that had to witness that anger firsthand in your vile language, your fbombs and then you're stomping out of the room and encountering more people in in the parking lot. I believe that council member Glazer deserves an apology. Those that were in the parking lot deserve an apology and those of us that were in the room deserve an apology as well. Um, I can speak to it because I was in the room and so I respectfully ask him for an apology from you, Mayor Gib. We did it to Mr. Dry, but to his family, to those of us who witnessed the encounter, and to council member Blazer, who also witnessed the encounter in the parking lot. >> There was no encounter in the parking lot. So, can I say something? >> Sure. >> I was in the room when that happened. So, I did witness it and I think it's been blown out of proportion. At no point did it seem like Shane was going to get physical. Mr. Dryen cursed at Shane. Shane responded in kind. Neither of those things should have happened. This wasn't a mayor interacting with the resident. This was two people who knew each other. Stop. This is my turn to speak. This is two people who knew each other with history. And I think Mr. Dan let that history bubble up and let it get better. And he swore at Shane. and Shane responded in kind. There's no physicality. There's two men exchanging words. >> You were You were in the room. You were up here and you did nothing to try and stop Mary Rainville. >> So, stop what? To stop what? They were discussing the room. >> They were not discussing it. Excuse me. >> Were you in the room? >> I was standing right next to Mr. D. >> All right. They exchanged words. This >> No, they didn't exchange words. >> He was not going to apologize to Shane for swearing at him. Mr. We're we're going to move fast 3 minutes to sell. >> Okay. I just want to say your your statement that you were just trying to get out of the room. You directly headed to him. You made the first comment to him and he told you to f off because he was hot. >> I was walking down that aisle to walk out of here. >> That aisle is four people across. >> Everybody else agree to disagree. We're going to agree to disagree. Let's moving on. Thank you, >> Steve Schmidt. >> Honesty, integrity. Good evening. Steve Schmidt, 6232, 191st Lane Northwest. So, I'm [clears throat] here tonight to uh address this ongoing issue of the Minnesota flag. Uh council has voted in the past to apply [snorts] the new flag. There's a lot of controversy about it. Um issue needs to be about what the residents of and now they want not what the city council wants. Um you folks represent [snorts] the residents of what we want and our opinions. You guys do what we want. That's how this council was set up and our government here. Uh Minnesota law does not require that city fly any state flag. So we need to fly a flag or we can fly the new one which a lot of debate about. wouldn't viable. Um, this issue was brought up November 25th by Council Member Glazer started a discussion that agreement not could not be reached and if the residents did not get a chance to choose our flag, then we should not fly any Minnesota flag. Uh, council member Braden agreed. The motion was made not to fly any state flag on the city property. That was voted down by Council Member Rainville, Council Member Slinsson, and Mayor Heiden. February 26, Council Member Glazer again asked to reconsider, and again, all three of you voted down. The question is, what do the residents and now want? When you look at the surveys on the Real Now, Then Facebook page, you'll see there's overwhelming support for the old flag, uh, the one that we grew up with, the one that's been around 100 years or so. Um either fly that one or no flag. Uh it's a reasonable position. Um you folks represent you work for us, not your own agenda. So whatever policy is made should be in the best interest of the residents of Malden. It should apply to all the city buildings and the veterans memorial. Uh the memorial represents people such as myself from this community that have served our country and the vast majority of us would prefer the old flag. Uh flag that flies and displays it should be something that honors our veterans and brings up the community together, not divides us. Uh many cities around us have decided not to fly deal the the new flag city. Um, so I'm asking that you make a decision and you either fly the old flag or no flag at all. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Can be 7230 Old Viking Boulevard. I'm Shannon. I live at 7230 Old Viking Boulevard. You have to say it again. >> Okay. Um, I was going to talk about roosters and I changed my mind because I was at that same meeting and I know you don't want to hear this again, but I was the one that was talking to Mr. Dryen. I don't know if you you even remember that, but I do cuz I was facing him at the time. And when you were walking out that door, you stopped. You called him the aggressor. And you, sir, said it was no big deal. I was so close to Randy that when you stepped in, I had to step back for not getting knocked. And then, sir, you were raising your voice. You started. And yes, he did tell you to f off. But you got so close that I would have told you the same thing because right then when you got in there and pushed me aside, basically didn't touch me, but I had to physically move or I would have been. You sat there and and got right in his face nose to nose. You're you were the aggressor in that. And you, Mr. Swson, were over here. You didn't come up there till the very end. And another council member pulled me back because he wasn't sure what would happen next. That is the story. And I was there with all well most of these people that were standing here. You were there. Your daughter was standing on my left. You were behind there. It wasn't aggression. And it was aggression by a council person. You are the mayor here. I work in a professional company. I work with other military. You are a military person. You know better. And I'm appalled that you sat there and apologized a left-handed apology and then which is basically apology but not really meaning it. And that's what I came across. You know why? because you turned around and told him that he was the aggressor. He had his hands in his pockets. You came between us and it wasn't just words. It was an aggression. And any man worth his salt would be willing to just say, "I'm sorry. I was wrong." And [clears throat] that would be it. But you couldn't do that. So, it wasn't about roosters today that I wanted to that I wanted it was about roosters that I wanted to talk about. But when I sit here and hear what you said, that's a shame on you moment. My son's in the military. I expect more. You're retired, but I expect more. We expect more as a community, from our mayor. I'm sure that you expect more from your council people. >> I just apologize. >> But you did. >> But I just didn't. what you did. >> Okay. Thank you very much for your comments. >> You're welcome. >> So, I will tell you that I did just apologize to I did it from the meeting of my heart not [clears throat] and I said I was wrong. Now, was I the aggressor? I will not accept that because it's not true. So, thank you. >> Okay, we are going to move on. Public forum is complete. We have proclamations to talk about. [clears throat] >> I was on that list. >> Oh, sorry, Steve. You're up. >> Okay, >> Steve, [clears throat] you're right. Name is Steve Schultz, 9167 194th Lane Northwest. I lived here for 20 years in peace and quiet. 20 years. I've been able to go in my backyard, play catch with my son, go on the deck for coffee in the morning and relax. Since this spring, I opened up the windows and I had no idea what this racket was. And I've grown up with chickens. These are guinea ps. My grandfather's farm, we didn't know what these were. I went over there. I said for the last couple weeks, "What is this noise? It's very annoying." "Oh, they're guinea hounds. If you don't like it, move." I came to you guys. This is what, my third, fourth meeting now. How is it that we have a dog barking ordinance, but you guys can't do something about a simple noise ordinance? Nobody should have to listen to this every damn day. Every day. Every day. And it's totally random. Totally random. It could be when I'm at coffee. It could be at night when I'm sitting out for a beer. It could be when I'm out doing yard work. I can hear that in my bed sleeping in the morning. This is just one of their main noises. What it is a dog goes oof or a guinea h GOES over and over again. All I ask is that you guys do your jobs and try to do something about it. Now, you voted down the noise ordinance before last meeting because it wasn't a very good ordinance. I paid for an attorney to come up with an ordinance that was fair and that addresses everything. So, can you please take a look at it and just do your job? I told my man, I have very little faith in people right now. Very little faith. But what's going to happen is that you're going to live next to somebody that you've lived here for 20 years. Perfectly enjoyed. And they're going to move away and somebody from one of these cities that nobody wants to be like, is going to come here and say, "We're in the country to do whatever we want." And they're going to get some beanie hats. They're going to get 20 of them. And this is what it's going to sound like. They're going to put it right on board. In fact, I'm telling all of you, if you hate your neighbors, go get some games. Seriously, because these people aren't going to do anything about it. I've asked I've asked all summer long. I've wasted a summer and not enjoying my backyard. Is that fair? Should anybody have to listen? Nobody should. Nobody. I'm sorry. I'm frustrated. But if somebody comes up to me and says, "We don't need any other orders." Yeah. No kidding. I don't want I don't want to go there and tell you what I can do. But when it bugs your neighbors, when you're doing something on your property that interferes with somebody else next door, then they got to do something about it. Please wrap up next. All right. Well, being that you're okay with this noise um and not going to do anything about it, I feel like I should be able to just play the whole meeting because I got to put up with my house. Well, and and I'm sitting there on a Zoom call in my dining room table. I'm listening to this. [clears throat] So, you tell me why I have to listen to it and why I shouldn't be able to play that thing over and over again this during this whole damn meeting because I got to listen to it. Why don't you guys do it? So, please, I've asked you please nicely three, four times now. I've given you video examples over and over. I've done your damn jobs. I've written that I had a attorney write the ordinance for you based on other cities, other ordinances. All you got to do is just adjust it any way you want. But please, for the love of God, do your damn jobs, please. Or if you can't, find resign. Find somebody that can do it because I might as well be talking to us ham sandwiches. Cuz Mary the other week, she's like, "Well, we did our jobs. We listened to you." That's not your job. Your job is a dude to make now then better. So please make now then better. That's all. >> Okay, we're going to move into the proclamations. We have two of them for this week. Proclamation for the constitution week. Whereas 17 September 2026 >> marks the 239th anniversary of drafting of the Constitution of the United States of America by the Constitutional Convention. And whereas it is fitting and proud to official recognition to the magnificent document and its memorable anniversary and to the patriotic celebration which will commemorate this occasion. And whereas public law 915 guarantees the issue of a proclamation each year by the president of the United States of America designated 17th September through 23 September as constitutional. Now therefore, I shade heaven, by virtue of authority, rest in me as the mayor of the city of Nalden, to hereby proclaim the week of 17- 23 September as Constitution Week and ask our citizens to reaffirm the ideals of the framers of the Constitution had in 1787 by uh what is that word? Vigilant >> vigilantly protecting the freedoms guaranteed to us. Thank you. And the guarantees of our liberties, remembering that that lost rights may never be regained. In witness whereof, I here unto set my hand and cause the seal of the city to be affirmed on this 8th day of September of the year of our Lord 2026. Okay. One more proclamation and it is on domestic violence. So this is also written by uh the Alexandria House but so I'm going to start this in a little bit of reverse order. Now hereby we have resolved and all knowing that the city of Nal proclaims October to meet the domestic violence awareness month for se September 8th 2026. Whereas the community problems of domestic violence have become a critical public health and welfare concern in Milco County. And whereas domestic violence is a crime, the commission of which will not be tolerated in NOA County, and perpetrators of said crime are subject to prosecution and conviction in accordance with the law. And whereas over thousands of women, men, and children have and will continue to assess assistance from Alexandria House, a domestic viol violence service provider. And whereas domestic violence will be eliminated through community partnership and concerned individuals and organizations working together to prevent abuse while at the same time affecting social and legal change. And whereas October is National Domestic Violence Awareness Month. And whereas during National Domestic Violence Month awareness, Delta County organizations will inform all residents about domestic violence, its prevalence, consequences, and what we as a concerned community can do to eliminate its existence. Okay, complete on that. So, we are up to the presentation of the Life Savings Award by Dr. Mark Vario. I almost got it. I might have messed it up a little bit. [clears throat] >> Good evening, council members. Good evening. I'm Dr. Mark Contrad. I'm a retired emergency medicine physician, but I've been active in EMS in the state of Minnesota for over 35 years. I'm very dedicated in my like I said I've retired from emergency medicine but not from EMS because I feel it is the area that contributes most in the community. Um, EMS is shared with not only by itself, it's shared with fire department, law enforcement, all first responders. And we have an example here of our uh your community uh fire people doing an excellent job and resulting in a life saved in your community. That's my happy duty to honor them tonight. >> That's awesome. So, I'd like to call them up and present them. I think they're in this corner. Right back. Gentlemen, please come up. >> [clears throat] >> So it is my uh happy duty to present this lifesaver awards these gentlemen and it reads this will start we'll start off with this lifesaver award to Michael Nelson firefighter EMT for your efforts and teamwork resulting in life a saving of life on August 4 2026 your actions are an example of the great things that happen because of selflessness, courage, and determination to act and reflect the highest standards of service to your community. [applause] [laughter] But I think short [applause] Do you remember [applause] [applause and cheering] your continuing dedication to this committee? >> I'd like to also Jesse was was our deputy first arrival. Mr. >> I don't have anything for you. Should [applause] we hire? >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Thank you again on behalf of the city staff. We really appreciate you. [applause] Mr. Mayor, can I take just a moment to Yes. Uh point out the fact that that lifesaving action was perfect example of the chain of EMS emergency response that that is provided to our residents and those passing through our community. And it started with our deputy and and the the fast response that that he had and had that patient prepped uh without getting into the weeds of the call itself. But the fact that that it started with with our deputy and fire was able to come in and work symbiotically with him and prep that patient for a lineup. um you remove any of those links and that chain fails. So, it's it's not any one of us in particularly that did anything out of the ordinary. We all did our job together and and by doing that, one of our residents is still alive today. >> Awesome. Thank you. [applause] All right, moving on. So, we got a follow up with Ryan Een River Hockey. [clears throat] Ryan, you've already done the initial presentation. So, if you can give us the summary, click notes of what's changed, who gets what responsibility. That's the key things that the council needs. >> Okay. Uh thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, council members, for hearing me out. Uh I'll briefly go through how I've changed uh the latest proposal and basically the what we're asking the city to handle and what we're willing to handle. All of these things are negotiable. They're not deal breakers, but I was asked to put some pen in the paper and that's what I've done. So, um do you want me to start with what our ask is or what our ask is of the city? >> I think what your ask is and then go to the city right after that. >> Okay. Um, one, I guess we're asking for uh to to make improvements to the site that's there. Um, to bring that rink into uh more of a public use as well, uh, more sustainable ice, less man hours that we'll need to, uh, maintain the ice. Uh, we would handle the site grading excavation needed to install a system like this. A chiller system does need to be very level. Um, we would also handle the board reinstallation with help of city labor if it's available, but we have a large volunteer force that can help with that. Uh we would purchase install the chiller refrigeration system, possibly relocate the current smaller rink that we have with the city's permission using other areas. If that's not on the table, that's okay. We already have a spot for that as well. Uh we would purchase a Zamboni and we would handle all ice resurfacing and maintenance outside of snow removal, which is part of what the city asked to do. Uh we are covered by USA Hockeyy's liability insurance. Um so we'll cover all obvious insurance coverage of our operation. Um, we will cover all ongoing energy costs as well as the upfront cost of the three-phase power upgrade. Uh, we have somebody that will the local electrician that will donate the labor for the hookup of the three-phase power to both the chiller and the um transformer and we came uh you know full responsibility for all maintenance of the chiller system and its components. ask from the city is possible city labor to remove the boards. We didn't install them. We don't know exactly how they come apart, but I would love to be a part of that if possible so we can see how it comes apart so we know how it goes back together. I have also obtained an actual uh blueprint of that set of boards. So, I think we discussed maybe at the last meeting, we've discussed it in our meeting, the boards are not currently installed properly. They're longer on one side than the other. I have a blueprint of that exact set of boards that came out of now I forget the county >> um >> Dun County area >> Dun County thank you um have a blueprint so we have the pieces we know where the pieces go exactly to put it back together um obviously use of the current site is what we would ask from the city we would ask the city to still handle snow removal um again after all city streets we understand that that would be m or priority for maintenance of city streets. This would be after that. Um and then permission for us to use the contractors willing to donate their labor for the excavation and electrical upgrades. Uh we'll need access to water, which I understand is not an issue. It's right there on site. Um and again, possible permission to if we do move our other rink and warming house over, somewhere to put it, and permission to use another space on site. Uh we would need heated storage for the Zambon. So whether that was in the maintenance building, fire station or recycling building, I could meet with Eric um from departments. >> Public works. Thank you. Um who gave me some possible options. Again, didn't say we could use any of them, but we would need somewhere to store that that is heated. It can't sit out in the cold elements. It freezes lines freeze. We lose a very expensive piece of equipment. Um they would need access to that space as well. Um, we would not ask to have this resurfaced every hour on the hour like an indoor arena. Um, again, all that could be worked out how often we have access to it, if it's only during the week, during weekday hours. Um, we're open to all of that. We do ask for future consideration. We are willing to cover the cost of the the three-phase power upgrade if there's not money in any city funds right now. Um, but I guess the ask would be if we can be paid back over time. We we're open to that. Um, we don't want that to be the hurdle that that doesn't allow us to go through. Um, other than that, any questions for me? Did I miss anything? Anybody have a chance to review it? Have questions for me? I >> think there's a couple questions we just got asked internally here in Miss Natalie, if I could talk to you first. Um, talking about removing existing boards, is public works, would they be helping with that? Have you guys talked on that internally? Can I have you come up and talk about the boards and the removing of the boards >> that you [clears throat] would be able to help with that? >> That's that's up to council as far as if it's going to be on a weekend or something, we have to get permission. um if they have enough help, we don't uh I mean we can come and assist if we have permission from council for using the skid loader to move the boards or remove them. I suggested that we could store them behind our shop for the time while they get dirt work done and and whatever they're going to do. Um if we leave them lay out there if they're all torn apart, somebody could maybe borrow one. It's hard to say. you want you want so but >> so really it would be an estimated amount of time for public works to help that's really what >> correct [clears throat] and I don't and I don't know with them if they have enough volunteer work during the said Monday through Friday or if it have to be a Saturday or Sunday um we didn't really discuss that so it' be up to you guys to approve >> any of it I guess next question I had was public works snow removal you guys talked on Then internally with the after roads are plowed. Any any idea how long it would take to clear the ice? [clears throat] >> Um with the snow blower options with the the skid loader or the tool cat, it goes relatively fast. Also explain them that we would not be out shoveling and and giving last little bits on the edges and whatever. But to remove the majority of it, 90% of it, 95% of it, it shouldn't take more than an hour. >> One hour per minute. And the last question was, uh, have we talked about as a staff um, about the heated storage? Is the recycling center the one that would be the most likely to be used? >> I feel yes. Um, they did warn me that they do have some sort of studs on the tires. Um, and I haven't looked into that, but I don't think they're too aggressive. Um, >> they can be removed. >> Okay. And andor um I I feel the recycling center cuz the the west side with the three garage doors. Um I think one of those bays is pretty much empty or or it could be stored in there. And that that side is heated obviously. So not heated to 100° but 40 to 45 for the low and then 60ish during the daytime. >> Okay, Mr. M. >> Well, Eric's still up there. And uh this I don't know if this is a question for Ryan, correct? >> Yep. >> Or or Eric, at one point the city had a membrane >> for the ice rink. Is that correct? >> Yeah. >> Is is this And did that go well in the past? I I understand that that one wasn't refrigerated. That's just that one was absolutely terrible. Um the first year that we put it in, we left it full sheet and we used the weight of snow to hold it over the boards all the way around. Well, in the spring when the snow melts, it took off like a hot air balloon. So that was pretty miserable. The next season we I think we kept it and then we cut it down. like halfway up the boards roughly and tried like taping it in there and that didn't work a darn either. I was talking to Ryan mentioned that they would get in and actually cut it just above the the blue board the bottom blue board so that's you know 6 7 in tall and then with the refrigeration it would hopefully cool down a lot faster. You know, our goal was to try and dump water in in September, October, and we started doing that, but I think we got too much water in there too fast, and I didn't want to freeze, right? So, it was kind of a um jump the whole time. >> So then, as far as seasonally, is the youth hockey organization going to set it up every winter and then pull [clears throat] it out in the spring? the equipment that we would be bringing in. The boards would stay. >> The boards would stay, but but as far as the >> the mat system that would go in there would have to be removed. It can't sit out there. We would need to remove it. I understand you use it for maybe some overflow parking or something. It would come out. >> Um if that's one thing that if you want us to remove the chiller, we could remove the chiller as well. Like it can be put on a trailer, hauled in, used, and then hauled out. So, it's all removable. The equipment that we would be bringing in is completely removable or it can stay if you're open to it. I'm just I'm just wondering the chill the chiller could stay in place, but I'm just wondering who's going to be responsible for setting it up and in the fall and then tearing it down in the spring. Is it is public works? Is the city going to pay for that or is the factory? >> I'm assuming that would all be us. Once we learn how to set this up oursel like I'm going to have to probably bring a company in, show me how to set this chiller system up the first time. We already have a full outdoor rate crew that operates the other system. Now, we don't have to deal with the chiller, so it's foreign language to us. But once we learn how to do it, yes, we would we would accept all of that responsibility. I don't think anywhere I don't have an ask from the city for ongoing setup outside of just this season to get the boards out of there and then get it set back up after that. It would be honest. >> Mr. Mayor, I want to ask a question and it's something that um council member Brian um pointed out. Does does anybody know when Joel Greenberg's youth group uses the ice rink? typically is it Wednesday nights with >> Mr. Mayor it's usually Saturday nights and he also had responded back to me that most of his group is going off to college having families and it's gotten very small over the past few years. >> I just want to make sure it wasn't >> No, it's not Wednesday night. It's Saturday. >> Mr. Mayor, >> um you guys currently remove snow from the ice. >> Yeah. Do you remove it every snowfall? >> Um, we try to. Yeah. I mean, if it's a continuous snowfall where we're plowing and then come back still, we're going to go home and rest for a couple hours then come back type of thing. Then it doesn't get cleaned in between because it's basically not done snowing. So, we don't bother till hopefully it's done. And based on what you know of the proposed rink and how the snow clearing goes, is there any reason to believe that clearing snow from that rink would take any longer than what you were currently doing now? >> Uh, it's the same rink. >> Yeah. >> Um, I don't know about their portable setup. Our little plugable rink doesn't have any boards or anything, so that one we drive on. And >> we would handle the snow removal if we brought our other rink in. That would not be anything we're asking the city to handle. It's so small. all I can bring a snowb blower in there and have it done in a half hour by hand. So, >> thanks. And then, um, setting up the rink at the beginning of the year, flooding the the bare ground and stuff, how much time do you guys spend setting up the rink, do you think, every year? >> Well, I mean, the boards themselves physically stay, but uh, till the ground gets hard enough, the water kind of disappears. So, we try and spray it for, you know, an hour or so and kind of let it sit and then So, the the the starting of it is is kind of a pain in the butt. Yeah. Because if the ground's not frozen or if you put too much water on, then it heats up the ground enough for the water to soak into the soil. >> With their with their uh shorter liner and their cooling system, the you know, the goal is to hopefully get ice faster. All right. I mean, where I'm going with this, it it seems to me that if we did do a new rink and provided the services they're requesting, we might actually save your labor hours. Would it possibly take a few more labor hours if the shoveling or stone removal is the same and set up? >> I I would assume so. Yes. Um especially with the cooling system because it obviously and then if they have their liner in there [clears throat] wait Ryan you put the liner in start adding water and then they I think they that's when you cut it down after the fact after you get some water in. Was that correct? >> We the rig that we run we use the the water to hold the weight of the liner down. And our rig is different in that it's the boards out there are 4 ft tall. The set that we have comes in 18inch sections uh are 16 inch. Um so once we get the first layer of boards down there 16 inches tall, we throw the liner over that and then we put another layer of boards around it so it keeps from the wind sail that he's mentioning from happening. Um but we also would not put water in that until we're ready to turn that coolant system on. So it's not sitting there. you don't run the risk of a big windstorm coming through and ripping it apart or changing all the work you put into it. Once we put the water in, we would turn that system on immediately. So, it would I mean once it's filled, it would need to be filled up, you know, roughly 3 in of water. Um, we would [clears throat] turn the system on then. >> And then for the Zamboni driving and ice prep, are you proposing that you and your people do that or that public works does that? That is what I have proposed is that we would handle that. I have uh some local Zamboni drivers that are both willing to put some work in to to one show us how to run a Zamboni. Um possibly even it for us. Um so if that is what is proposed, if that's off the table, then again that's something we'll have to figure out as far as when and how it gets resurfaced. One thing about that ice sheet is that it does I he did tell me about the Zamboni and we didn't I didn't get to see it but he explained what it was. It was more of a flooding machine than a Zamboni. Zambon will actually cut the ice and shave it down. This system will need to have cut stem to help [clears throat] keep the ice from just continually growing to where that cooling system will not work. So we would need the use of a Zamboni, not just a flooding putting water on top over and over again. It does need to stay shaped down. I mean, it seems the only negatives to the city possibly is the payment of that threephase electric and the possibility that, you know, having these guys on the ice might take it away from now residents. And it it doesn't sound like that's going to be the case if you only have one group using it and the three pays electric. I guess that's their only cost for a real nice sheet of ice that's open to city res. Mr. Mayor, >> so I have I have a question and and I'm >> So I have a question. So we're talking about getting our boards out. >> Yep. >> But reinstalling them >> or installing yours cuz you just talked to ones that were >> Great question. Um the ones that I was talking about is a rink that we own that's totally separate. It's a smaller rink that we've been operating. It's 50 by 100. the boards that we would ask to be removed and then reinstalled, the only reason they need to be taken down is to recreate. >> Okay. I I when you started talking about the like the Lego ones, I thought, wait a minute, I thought we were going to use ours. Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. Um >> the other thing I don't see in here and I >> might just be that I missed it >> is ongoing utility costs. We've had budget meetings and uh an issue is our utility cost and will we see an increase in cost? >> It's in page seven. >> Seven. >> So if you look at the fifth or sixth bullet seven pole it's the ongoing energy utility costs. >> Oh all right for the needed from city. That's where I as well. Okay. Thank you >> Mr. Mayor. One more question for financial consultant Jagger. If we were to do this for the three-phase uh electric cost, can we use park capital funds for that? >> Mr. Mayor, members of the council um council member Swansson, there is funds available in the park dedication fee. So yes, there there's money available currently in 2026. Um those funds are dedicated for specifically park improvements and icements and things like that. you have uh 218,000 in there. You do have a lot of things budgeted for 2027, but you still will have at the end of 27 about $75,000 still in there. So, at a $13,000 cost, you're still just fine in part dedication fee. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions for either Eric, Mr. Mayor? Question for Ryan and Eric. Eric, so right now we're only snow plowing when we have about 2 in. Is that right? >> Uh [clears throat] there that varies on the on the ice itself. >> Just roads. >> Oh, roads themselves. >> Yeah. >> I think your policy is 2 in. >> We go by safety. So, I mean, you could have the first inch melt and then turn to glare ice and then you only have an inch standing. So, I I go out and check the roads periodically as it's a continuous snowfall. Um, but >> but if there's an inch or of snow, we may or may not be snow plowing. >> Correct. Most of the time gravels will not get touched on an inch of [clears throat] snow. Right. >> If you take more gravel off then you take snow off. >> Right. Understand? So Ryan, are you is there an expectation about when how often the the propos the proposal would have would um with the proposed rake um would need to be shoveled? >> I mean, I'm assuming you don't want an inch of snow on it. I will tell you this, every hour of ice that we can pick up is an hour that we didn't have last season. So the expectation if city can't get to it, >> practice might have to be cancelled. Um we we understand that. um or they might have to come out and maybe shovel it a little bit if it's less than what >> right >> um you city equipment can get on or can get to doing it. Same thing if you get a heavy snow. If it's if it's you know ongoing snow and they can't get to it, we're going to have to cancel. We're aware of that. So I just want to make sure that that's that that's included that it's not that there might be time when cities not city is either not plowing so they wouldn't be doing the rink and um or it's a long snowfall and it's going to be a while obviously outdoor hockey you have to deal with snow that's part of it. Yep. >> So but so then you would be taking care of shoveling the rink if or plowing or snow blowing r if need be or you're or you cancel it. we would likely have to cancel because I don't have equipment big enough to probably clear that snow in a timely enough manner. Again, it depends. Like we just have never had to clear that. I can tell you the 50 by 100, we can do it about a half an hour. Now, if it's 12 in of snow, it's not half an hour, but an inch or two of snow is is really easy. So yeah, we we are understanding of that that it may not always be clear >> because I just don't see necessarily where we would want at least it would be my opinion that that we would um be looking to um control overtime and the amount of hours that we are spending above and beyond for for a project like this. >> Yep. And we're conscious of that. We don't expect any overtime hours to be done on that outside of what was already being done there before. Like again if if they can get to it after cities and city streets awesome. >> So all the all the communication there's two things that we would ask you to add on to er y ha the setup and tear down of the equipment and then the less than 2 in of snow are the two that have been discussed so far. >> Can you repeat the first one? Set up >> the setup and tear down of the equipment the grid system with all of the stuff you guys would be responsible for setting it up and tearing it down. >> Was that not in there? I don't believe it was. >> He talked about relocation >> purchase and install a chiller and refrigeration system.3 >> but then every year just say this goes on past one year you guys would take it out and then put it back in. >> Got it. Okay. So add ongoing install and tear down. >> Correct. Set up and set up and then the less than two inches of snow if the city doesn't. Is there anything else yet? >> Maybe, but back to >> council. So, there was discussion that we could use this during the summer for different things, but if we're taking them down every spring, we don't have summer use of them. >> Not that we have them now. >> Not the boards. >> Not the boards. Okay. Just the the chill or the the base is what's coming up. if I can address that like down the road if this is something that you guys want to expand into being a pavilion style cupboard with a with a concrete slab now I I think there's great potential for you to use in the summer using it in the summer right now as it sits with even a nice graded pad probably isn't much there [clears throat] >> is there any other question Mr. Mayor Cook, I was trying to find it in tonight's packet, but I don't see it. Um Lori, um did we change what the projections for the ending fund balance in the park since 17th of August? >> And am I I'm just trying to read that I'm seeing that at least if I'm based on that final packet on August 17th, um correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm seeing an ending fund balance from the parks at $25,000. That's what I was talking >> currently are at whatever you know or the ending fund balance at the end of what 26 budget was or projected for the end of 26 was 245 but then I'm seeing with the expenditures that we have $25,000 and change >> in the park improvement funds. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> 45. >> Mr. Mayor, members of council, [clears throat] um, we must have added something at that on the playground, but I didn't have that in. >> Yeah, Mr. May members of the council, I did not include that in my my cash flow in my capital improvement planning and that's what I had. So it would be $50,000 less than what I just said. So it would be $25,000. Yep. So basically then with this money it would be down to um about $12,000 at the end of 27. Mr. Mayor, >> what? >> We were talking about that and the guys are coming up with some ways to try to just remove the pieces that are broken on the playground and replace the stuff. I sick. >> Okay. So, he's been working on that to try to find a replacement piece to go on there so that we would not have to spend money on the playground. just hopefully improve what we have. And then I also want to bring up Eric. How often do you guys snowplow or you know even go shovel off the ice cuz it seemed like it was like every other day at least anyway >> there again. Usually if they get you know half an inch to an inch we can broom it enough. We have a broom for the tool kit so we can just go around and broom it. um snowboard is not going to work that good unless you have, you know, a couple inches. But the broom works pretty decent that way. Um there again, hey, you know, it all depends on what kind of snow, you know, we don't we don't run out there 17 times in an 8 hour day. You know, maybe we'll clear it in the late afternoon and hope that somebody uses it overnight. We we've never been in on the weekend or anything after the 3:30 hour to do any sort of >> cleaning up to Jagger. But we also as we have lots and we have a couple of them in the packet tonight, not large by any means, >> but as there are lots and additional lots are made that those park improvement funds go back into. So between staff coming up with some cost savings and the ability to recoup some funds as lots that won't change that. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the council, council member um Rainville, in the budget, we project that we'll have five improvement lots a year. >> Um in 2026, we had way more than that. Um, and so I project that you'll have about $12,500 a year that comes in park dedication funds. If that changes, if you have more, then you have more money available. But that that I cannot project. Um, so this year you have 65,000 and not 12,500. So it can vary quite a bit on an annual basis. So my projected fund balance in other words is based on the 12,500 not based on anything more than that. >> What we could look at is you could also look at splitting it up and say hey I'll do half and 27. So we can >> any other comments for >> Mr. Mayor would you entertain a trim question real quick as do it staffing house additional usage and the better condition of the ice is that something that council would need to consider for the budget. >> What was that? >> It was about staffing the warming house. >> Oh, and right now it's open and you can go in there and you can get warm. I would ask Eric, is there any any considerations we should look at for that? >> They're all on timers. The lights are on timers and so is the heaters. Um, they go on an hour. Turn the dial. Um, we fortunately haven't had any, you know, trash or anybody breaking of anything. um maybe an occasional shovel or something like that, but any of the shovels that have been in there or residents or or somebody supplying, the city hasn't ever supplied any anything like that except for the the benches in there and the rubber mats. Um like I said, besides the garbage can getting filled up once of the blue moon, we've knocked damage, no uh anything [clears throat] crazy happen thus far. Mor you've had conversations before on whether we staff it or not. Um that is something we'd have to look at in the budget. Um I would say unless there's any consistency in groups using it, it would be very difficult to find somebody to staff two hours one day and four hours another. And you know, it's not like it's a it's going to be staffed like say every night from 5 till 7 at night. Um if there's no one using it, there's no need for staff. If we have an organization that's there and using it, their coaches and their management are supervising their their hockey players. >> That that would be the intent. >> No. >> Yep. I don't think we need a worker there. Um, my understanding in talking there is that it basically is left unlocked >> and people can turn the heat on when they need it and the lights on when they need it. So, I don't think we're asking for anything different on that. >> Is that Mr. Mayor? >> What? >> Yeah, if there were issues at the warming house, is that covered under your insurance policy >> for physical damage? >> Anything any anything? It could be an incident with um kids destroying property. It could be an incident with just kids in general. I don't know if if if kids are brought to the hockey rink, I'm assuming their parents are bringing them or dropping them off. And who knows what could happen at a warming house. >> Yep. >> Um I think that was the convers part of the conversation that we had when this came up last time about a warming house is liabilities if if there was an incident at at the hockey. >> I would have >> I mean they would not be responsible if it wasn't for their their teams. I understand that, but there's if if if there's hockey practice going on, there's going to be way more people there on average than are usually there. I would in my opinion. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the council, I [clears throat] believe the League of Minnesota Cities covers you for your house activities as long as it's listed on your property. >> But does that cover a an actual organized event? >> It it covers whatever is in the watering house or using the watering house at that location. >> Right. But it's a it's to me it's different than just coming up as using a leisure race versus coming for organizing. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the council, I council member Brian, I can check with the lead Minnesota cities to see if there's anything. I've never encountered any special coverage for >> sure any any particular hockey events at at a particular event. >> Mr. Jagger, just if you could especially specify with the league if that insurance is liability only or if it covers >> Sure. structure structure contract >> and I do believe the policy we get through our governing body is liability only but we do obtain other coverage for our rink for fiscal damage just because we own it. So if property damage were to happen at the other city park in Alter where we keep it, we do carry coverage on that. If we needed to add this, we could look into that. But I think it gets a little messy with >> how do we know who did the damage? >> That's the we have no vestible or vested interest in ensuring it unless we're asked by contract. Mr. >> One last thing, Eric, from a maintenance standpoint, just plan on keeping a pad clear for the Zamboni to dump the snow that's picked up by the conditioner. Indoor rings typically melt all that melt most of their snow that comes off the ice and we'll need a dedic if if this comes to fruition they need a dedicated spot where they're able to dump throughout the winter. >> That's no problem they get. >> Is there any other comments? I just wanted to add one more thing. I heard something come up about the groups that want to use the rink. If something ever came up and and we want to be a partner on this as much as we understand there might not be a lot of funds available on your guys side right now, but we want to be a partner. So if there's city events and functions that come up that you say, "Hey, we really have this group that wants to use it." We're open to a working relationship with that. If it was on short notice, next week, church group wants to hold a room ball tournament, we can move stuff around to accommodate that if we want to be a partner on this and make it something that hopefully can be longterm. So, other than that, I think that was all the questions. Uh, I did write down one thing when Eric was mentioning about the the tear down. Um, he was concerned that we might not want to leave them outside if when we tear the ring down while it's being done. It's possible we could do it on a Sunday night. [clears throat] I would have our volunteers come out and help with that. We would need to be shown a little bit of light how it was put together, but then instead of having to pay overtime or anything like that, Monday morning when they show up, it's ready to go and and be hauled off. So the excavation speed up. So just another thing I had written down. All right. So that's complete proposal. Um I know we're lacking a little bit of details. This is also timeliness is important on this. So you mentioned it last time. When does esavation have to start? >> Was it October? >> The bigger the [clears throat] biggest piece is getting the three phase in cuz I got to schedule that through Kexus. They won't even give me a total like hard cost without a site plan and I can't do that without a green light to use the site. >> So yes, I to have it done this year. Um, the biggest piece is getting that power in there. If we don't have the power, we can't put a chill in it. Not this year. It could still be a rink. It just won't be a chill rink. Um, nor do I know if it would work for what our need would be without the chiller. >> Um, >> she said you have enough money to cover that and the city can reimburse you the recommendation. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you need a green light for power. Do we have enough information to this to be able to vote on this in public? There's a lot of good benefits for for the residents for Saturday and Sunday East Cost. If you would look and say, is it a wash for public works? It's probably pretty close. They got to get access to the U for the Zamboni. That's one that logistically we have to work out how is it secured. But overall, this is uh pretty straightforward. I would recommend that we propose half reimbursement in 207 and the other half in 20 so we can cover the preparation. Is there any other discussion on that? >> Well, I certainly can. I was wondering if there's any more discussion before Mr. Mayor concerned because because yeah, we can we can probably do this. We might be able to do that. I can probably know this pro this specific thing probably where the Zambon could go here there. It would be nice to see a definitive this is what we're going to do. This is how we're going to implement this plan instead of h having things still up in the air about yeah it probably would work. Um I mean >> would you support putting the policy in place right now? >> How [clears throat] much is it? >> It's going to be paid for by them. They don't have the exact amount because we haven't given the green light. >> Well, if we're reimbursing them, then it's not paid by them. We'd have to pay for it. >> We will reimburse. >> So, how much is it? >> But they need the green light to get the exact >> I can address some of that because it was in the previous proposal. It may not be in this one because it wasn't anything I was asking you to pay for to upgrade the power to three-phase was 5875. That's just to bring the power up from the 110. I'm not an electrician, so don't hold me to all these numbers. um to upgrade it to the three-phase that's needed. A $13,100 transformer would need to be put on site as well. We have an electrician that's going to donate all the work to hook all that up. The one thing that they can't give me because they can't tell me where they're going to bring the power from until I give them a site plan. It could come from the north. It could come from the south. It could come from the west out of the maintenance building. It just all depends on what the site plan says where everything's going to go. I can't give them that without having the green light to use the site to come up with that site plan. So estimated cost is about $19,000 right now. That does not include any directional drilling under something like the parking lot. Um but that is the cost that I was given from Texas for the equipment that would be needed. >> Mr. Mayor, [clears throat] >> this coffee >> this it what kind of information does Kexus need to >> exactly what he said. So he has to have a green light to to determine where it's going to go. >> Site plan. We need a site plan. C4. There's going to be additional cost. >> Did you give them a loan sheet >> uh for the unit itself? It depends on which one we buy. I have that information actually. Uh again, don't hold me to these numbers cuz I'm not an electrician. 400 amp at 277480. But um did you give them a little cheat to see what size transform do you need? Did you give them anything to say? What size chiller you bring? >> Um 240 ton is what I've been recommended. But it does depend on the system that we buy. Everyone's different. So they all have a different load sheet. I haven't got to the point of buying yet because I haven't got far enough to know if it's feasible. >> I can see what I can do tomorrow. Do you have any do you have any of the electrical data with you that that you could provide to Miss Coffee that she could take with her so that she has some talking points with the engineers? >> I can give you the information that I have in the conversation I had with Candy. Um that's but as far as individual unit like we have not purchased the unit so I don't have a I don't have a kilowatt tag telling you what the usage is. Um I do know that it needs the the 277 >> the phase. Yep. So I just like it'll make a difference if it's a 500 KVA transformer to 300 >> just costwise. So if you're looking at a couple units just like council member Glazer said any information you can give me this way you're tending to lean. If you don't have that dial in yet and then a site >> those numbers you were asking was for the transformer specifically correct. Can you give me those voltage numbers? >> We can check. When is our next city council meeting? We have anything scheduled before. >> Mr. Mayor, >> I think uh Councilman Brian and Councilman Glazer make good points about getting our ducks all the way in the row before committing to something, but I feel like our ducks are enough in a row to vote on this today. I mean, we know that there's going to be a cost over 10,000 for the three-phase hookup. We don't know exactly where we're going to put the Zamboni, but we have, you know, multiple viable options that sounds like Eric says, any one of which could work. I mean, I think we have enough of a plan here where I'd be comfortable giving them the go-ahad so that they he could move forward and get this put in place for this winter. Um, you know, so I I think I would be ready to vote on this, Mr. Mayor, >> does can we ask if everybody has a slot within the next two weeks where if everybody hustle to get the information that's necessary so that we have all that information in front of us and can get the decision made [snorts] before October pull their calendars out. [clears throat] Mr. >> The 22nd is the planning and zoning meeting. >> Doesn't start till 7:00. Could we come in here and do a meeting from 6:00 prior to >> Would you guys be open for the 22nd at 6 p.m. >> I may or may not bring Is there a date that would work better for you? >> Well, I'm I'm done probably from the 22nd to the 30th if not possible. >> Is it possible we could do it next week? That's up to the people that have to get some data. >> So, >> I like maybe by the 17th on Thursday. >> That's what I was thinking. Is it possible we could have them down by the >> talking about the 15th? >> Are you talking about meeting on the 15th? >> The 17th, but if Natalie If Natalie's counter seems like Natalie's countering with the 17th be better for her. >> Oh, the 15th or the 17th is fine. >> I'm good with >> I'm count on 15th. So, I'm not here. So, it have to be 17th. >> Oh, wait. I actually can't 17. There you go. >> 17. Yes, >> if we can have the data and that'll be so we can put a tenative meeting on for the 17th if we get the data we can make a decision on it and if we can't um then we can cancel the meeting. >> Back to the question about the transformer when I talked to Candy which is the engineer I was working with at Kexus based on the size chiller the price she gave me for 13,000 was for the size transformer that was needed. I don't know that she told me what size that was. So whatever was needed I believe was the $13,000 portion. >> All right, Miss Johnson, schedule one for 17, please put on that one. So we will shelf and not make a vote on >> any other questions for me. >> I have one other one just the two highlights that I need to add to the proposal that you want to see on the 17th as well outside of the size of the transformer and the data needed add ongoing install and tear down of the motorheads for future years at this stage and that we're removal for less than 2 in of snow. Um, if the city doesn't get anything else I need to add to that or remove from the proposal, >> but the city has to figure out how they're going to do with the zone. That was the other council. >> The snow basically is if the city's not able to do it. >> Nope. >> Maybe less than half an inch cuz it's on a Saturday night or whatever. Yep. >> And if you needed to do something. >> Thank you, Ryan, for your time. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Moving on to the consent agenda. We pulled out item B and we moved it as 7.6. >> Mr. Mayor, >> council member motion to approve the consent agenda as amended. >> Got a second. Any other discussion? >> Hearing none. Let's move forward with a vote. All those in favor say I. I. >> I. >> Thanks. >> Approved. Uh motion is approved. Okay. Moving on to finance. Miss Jagger. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the council, the first item on the agenda is the cancellation of a portion of the debt service levy that is to be levied in 2027. Um, keeping the the the levy increase for debt at zero is possible because you had um special assessments that were collected in 202 um 6 and 205 that will pay for the initial or most or all of the initial debt service. I don't have to levy for the entire amount that was scheduled to be levied for. So this just uh um cancels a portion of the debt service levy. [clears throat] >> Mr. Mayor motion to approve the resolution canceling the debt levy from 2026 available in 2027 for the discussion assessment by the chief second. Got two seconds. All right. Any other discussion? Hear none. Move to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Oppos. Motion carries. Next one. And here's the council random council. I have a presentation for the um the levy. Share my screen. Where is it? Zoom. Okay, that's enough. >> [clears throat] >> Is it possible just click on slide one there? Go back increase it. >> Just click on slide one. >> Thank you. And tonight is we'll be covering the 2027 preliminary levy and budget for the city of Navan for 2027. Um council adopts a preliminary levy and certifies that levy to come prior to 20 September 30th, 2026. They also have to recommend a public meeting date which is recommended to be December 8th, 2026 at 6:00 p.m. And that would be the also the the adoption of the final levy unless a continuation meeting is required. Um we we were directed the staff was directed and and the consultant was directed to bring in a levy that meets the needs for the city and for the debt for and for capital and operations. Currently the the preliminary levy is set at 2,563,197 [clears throat] which is a $230,000 $410 over 2026. What that increase entails is it's 210,000 210 $410 over the current uh general fund operating levy and 20,000 for transfers to capital funds. Oops. And this was is quite long. Um, in 26 we utilized excess fund balance of of 406,000 to pay for some existing um debt that was previously funded from prepaid special assessments. We also um purchased some equipment or transfer some money for $40,000 for equipment or um turnout gear. and the remaining fund balance 84,380 was used to um cover operating costs in 2026 to keep the levy down in 2026. And so having said that, we need to now we need to levy for that that 84,000 that we used in 2026. Um we also are seeing 75,000 increase which is 3% over the current 2026 budget. Um, we used a $30,000 transfer from the building fund to help pay for code enforcement in 2026. And the balance of the levy increase is a loss of revenues of about 22,000 in 2027. [clears throat] The fund balance I'm I'm projecting will remain at about 43 thou 43% of total expenditures. And here's the detail of the total budget. It said the total budget is for the general fund is 2.6 million and you can see there the changes that that are occurring. We we're reducing the transfers out. Um salaries and benefits are increasing about 65,000. That's there were steps implemented in in 2026. The weather siren is being purchased in 26 and they're we're not doing that in 27. Um there's additional maintenance that that the staff is asking for and council is considering for 27. Um the planning and escrow and and the engineering escrow are fees are being escroed instead of being expended. Um those are decreases. The law enforcement contract is going up 25,000. Um some materials fuel I think everybody can relate to that. It's going up. tools and and there's some signs that are being purchased in 2027. And you can see there the the rest are smaller increases regarding increases to the general fund. And here's a detailed picture of the um general fund. You can see the dollar changes over here and the uh taxes here are going up 230,000 in the general fund and then there's no increase in tax levy in the debt service fund. Um and then you can see general expenditures the general government is going down where public safety, public works and parks are increasing in 2027. So with this levy increase that we're proposing property properties may see a 9 to 11% increase in their annual tax city tax liability and it's a result of your levy increases also your changes in your fiscal disparities um and your fiscal um contribution for the city of that all impacts the tax Right. The market value of an average home and now then increased by 8%. That also impacts the the amount that each property pays. The the amount went to 488. And with this new tax rate, uh, a homeowner with that property value will pay about $1,160 in city taxes, which is about a $760 a month increase in your tax bill. Your tax rate is one of the lowest in the entire county at at 23.7% currently. We're increasing it to 23.8%. I think there's only one city that has a lower tax rate than you and that happens to be I think it is. Otherwise, in the county of your tax rate. So, talking about some of the other funds, um we are receiving additional county aid for for the recycling center. And so now the recycling center costs are completely covered with the the grants and the revenues that it is earning. The levy remains the same as I mentioned for the debt service funds and you can see there um where the debt service funds are are being levied and what they're being levied for. Um there's several improvement projects planned for park capital. Um um you can see the list there and there's an ad the ice rink and for there um but all of this comes out of the park dedication fund which is specifically for these types of improvements. and their building improvement fund is uh looking at building a new well for the fire response and that is $320,000 or not $325,000 and the bonds will be issued at um for $320,000. In addition to that that that big um the well being built, there's some smaller items that we're planning on doing. Insulating town hall and recycling center, some security cameras for city buildings, shop fans at at public works, and an air conditioner at city hall. For next year's road improvement funds, we're looking at Hunter's Meadow and um is it Milestone Ponds? >> Okay. 520,000. the county project, they split it out so that you only have to pay a certain amount every once every three years. You you'll be done in 28, payment 26, 27, and then 28. Um, you have 120,000 for the tuminous maintenance. And then calcium chloride, you increase that budget from 50,000 to 55,000 to help with that process. Oh, and it might not be called calcium chloride anymore, is it called? for to change that. >> And then in the equipment fund, um for the turnout, you increased that to 15,000 for 2027. It's actually a decrease from 26, but uh we we changed the during our budget meetings to 15,000 for turnout gear for firefighters. And then the equipment fund. Um we're issuing debt to buy a new dump truck which has already been um the PLO has been issued and you should receive the truck in 27. Also looking at the need for a new zeroturn mower. Um fire mobile royos, fire portable radios, and fire air packs with the CDA air packs. So monthly the tax bill for the average home is $97 a month. And I always like to do this to try to compare it to like your cable bill or something. You know, you get your TV or whatever. And and for that you you get some stations and here you get police and fire services, you get street maintenance and plowing, you get park maintenance, you get planning, you get street improvements, equipment, administration. So you get quite a >> bank $97 is specifically to the city. No, that's what the the residents pay to the city. >> To the city portion. >> Yep. That's the city portion on a monthly basis. >> And then I just wanted to do a overall picture for the city. Um so you can get a big picture. Um historically, you know, you've spent about $4 million. In 27, you're proposing to spend $5 million. And so you're spending more money on your capital improvements, which is um a good thing, I think, in in your park capital funds and and your um your building capital funds. That's it. So questions, Mr. Mayor, I just want to clarif new tax rate. This memorial will pay 1,60 in annual city taxes and increases 760. All right. Myself. [laughter] >> Any other discussion on the year ago? Um there are some of the things on the um capital fund um that with the building improvement fund that um we will possibly be able to do this year. Um what is the installation here at town hall? I don't know if we'll get the recycling center done. Um so some of those things would there just be a little buffer in there if we were able to Mayor, what what insulate insulated project is being recommended for recycling center? >> Mr. Mayor, >> I I believe we've just had discussion on it. We haven't had anybody looked at anything there. Um, but we've had conversations about fuel costs, energy costs, and the question is if can we put any additional installation in there to help us with that? But there's been no decisions, >> nothing at this time. So we focused our efforts on looking at how we could accumulate this and but if we were to so it's proposed for 2027. So what additional funding were you looking for to pay for it this year? Where is that funding coming from? Well, [snorts] the >> at 55 >> Well, the the the piece we have on the on the agenda today for the installation for this building is coming out of capital funds from this. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, currently your fund balance at the end of 2026, I'm projecting will be about $185,000 that you'll have left in your building improvement fund. And that is from money that has been transferred in specifically to do building improvements. And so that's what you have in the fund at this time at the end of 26. >> Mr. Miss Johnson, wasn't wasn't the weren't the funds that were going to be used to uh for energy efficiency purposes part of the at one point we had $60,000 for the building or $30,000. >> The money that was set aside for this building that fixed the holes and did the paint and all that. It's all in the same fund. Anything else for the 2027 budget preliminary? It gets confirmed on the 8th of December. >> Yes. >> Was it the 8th? >> Yes. >> Yep. >> So, I'll make a motion. One thing I would like to request, Mr. mayor is that for the meeting on the the public meeting on the 8th >> is that the the city council and the residents be provided with detail as far as um where the budget is at for 2026 >> at that at that time >> and what is projected outstanding through the end of the year. >> Okay. uh so we can have good discussion about any possible changes that we >> okay >> for projections for the rest of the year >> where we're at as far as actuals because we didn't have that last meeting actual and projected for for 2026 >> actuals and project >> Mr. Mayor follow up with that. Do we want to not wait till December to do that because we can at least I I would hate to get all this information December 8th and then we we're scrambling to get it done by the end of the year to to if we're if we're making changes to the levy because yes or changes to the budget because we know we can go down just can't go up and it just seems like if if we find out that there's more projections that there's funding available that that can impact next year's budget. so we can lower it. It it's it seems like it would be um fiscally responsible for us to address that sooner than later and not wait till last minute to lower the budget because you know again it the the challenge always is of wants versus needs. And I'd rather I'd rather focus on the needs and lower the lower the next year's budget because yes ours is going up is proposed to go up and counties is proposed to go up. So that $7 a month, yes, it's just the city portion, but there's everybody else's, school districts that more than likely are going to go up. And it's just >> anything we can do to control spending would be beneficial. >> Your projections are going to be the most accurate as you get closer than so. >> Right. So is the council willing to >> um go through another budget session in December to go through all this because I don't can't see it being done during a public hearing. the public hearing is one portion of the council meeting then we can go through the budget and ask you any questions on December 8th and that's the intent of the meeting go through it and if it needs to go through line by line or line line by line >> so I think it can be managed I think the requests are very very good hey what's it what's current state and what's projected left and let's talk about it all right so preliminary budget any other comments on this I'll make a motion to approve a resolution approving the preliminary budget for 2027. >> Secondary say preliminary levy because that's really the important part. >> Preliminary levy. All right. So, >> county doesn't care about the budget. >> Resolution approving the preliminary levy >> for 2027. >> Okay. >> Second. >> Got a second. Any other further discussion? Hearing none. We'll move to vote. All those in favor say I. I. Oppose. Nay. Motion carries. Okay, next on the agenda is [singing] No, hold on. We're going to go to old business. First one is, do we have Mr. Schultz here? All right. Uh, approval of resolution 2026 authorizing Sentry Concrete to replace the apron at the fire station. >> One second. I'll tell you it should be under business. So 175, >> right? Understand 175. You want to take us through this? Just tell us what you have here. You have an RCA with your name on it. >> The as as it's written in the the RCA, the front apron on the north wall where all four bays exit the building is uh collapsing towards the slab of the building. Um, in order to get the correct fall and the to have the water run away from the building, they are recommending extending that apron out an additional 4 ft. And uh that that would require removal of some of the existing asphalt, but that would get them the correct the correct fall and slope away from the building. The only question would be whether or not that needs to be done in two pores just so that the entire building is not put out of commission. Uh but that's more of a logistics than than anything. Um the biggest question I would have is is contractor availability for this whole exact timing. Uh what is the timing? So it's going to be as available. They may be able to do it this year. Otherwise, it's going to get shelter. Correct. >> And how is this going to get where's the funding coming from Mr. >> Mr. Mayor Council? The the Yep. The funding is available and the building funds. Um, as I said earlier, you had 185,000. This will bring it down to 172. >> Total cost you're requesting is $13,150. Questions for Mr. Schulz? Mr. Mayor, go ahead. Uh Mr. Schultz, how how is the city [cough and clears throat] informing contractors that the city is looking for proposals for uh to perform work? Uh this was a preliminary request for quote uh just from a budgetary number. So I was personally not under the impression that this was a project that would be tackled in 2026. So to answer your question, I requested with local contractors that I know are in our community uh to try to get the council budgetary orders. So, there was no formal uh request for bid. So, one one thing that this makes difficult is if there are other contractors out in our community and I know the two contractors that you solicited from are close by. One is I believe across the street. Am I correct? >> Correct. The other one is is office in Mil River. But there are other um contractors that do flat work. It makes it difficult once once that information goes out to the public as far as what these contractors have bid to solicit formal proposals from other contractors. It's unfair to the two that have already given us given us a price. >> Agreed. >> Um so I I would like to see some and we've talked about this before >> [clears throat] >> somehow I I would like to see us if there's a way to improve our bidding process um as far as reaching out to more contractors or we have some sort of public channel that notifies contractors would you like to participate in this so that um we have because we we have a lot of very good contractors right here now then some that may be more competitive um than the proposals that we got. I know one of one of our contractors would have been more competitive and we would have saved some money because I I I reached out to them. I gave them the scope of work without the dollars and they came back um about $1,000 less than the lower lowest bidder. >> Fair enough. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the council, this this project hasn't been bid yet and and so they would still be able to come in with that bid at a later date. at when you are doing um quotes where you can get own quotes for stuff anything under $25,000. You don't have to have a formal bid process. Formal bid processes are for stuff that is that is $100,000 or more. So with with you know this was just an estimate so you could have a budget, >> right? But my point is it we have other contractors out there. It it kind of makes it if it kind of makes it unfair to the two contractors that the city's already got the proposal from because there's already a target number. So, >> I think this is the same. >> Yeah. [clears throat] For sure. Um, council member Laser, maybe you'd like to come up with a proposal as to how we could run that because I don't know how to get the estimates for budgeting and not tell you what they are before going to FID. But if you'd like to come up with a policy and do an RCA, certainly we can do that in October. I'd be happy to work with the guys from public works >> that council just to be clear uh my understanding what this was really just an exploratory uh action for for uh what the remedy would be for the the current problem at the fire station. I was not under the impression I apologize for the the lack of clarity on my part that that I was under the impression this was strictly for budget numbers for 2027. Mhm. >> I was not under the impression it be acted out in 2026. So I I apologize that that I did not uh understand that properly. >> Mr. Mayor, I can take a I can take place for that because I just didn't know and the chief and I talked about it and he asked me to put it on for this year if there was money available to do it and hopefully [snorts] prevent additional damage. >> That was part of the conversation. The sooner we can do it, the better off we do. Yes, Mr. Mayor, but as it's presented, Isaac proposed uh and the the approval that we go forward with the project. So, that's where the challenge is. So, um yes, I agree. It' be nice to get done this year, but $1,000 cheaper. >> Mr. Mayor, >> go ahead. >> I was just going to make a suggestion. Would it be possible to put this on issue for next week's ice rink meeting? And would that be sufficient time to obtain bids? Like I don't know how quickly bidding process works or shop around for bids. >> The question is is century concrete going to if if there's a proposal some proposal for $1,000 less is concrete going to drop their bid. >> That's a good question. And this is not even is this a bid or investment? If we >> if we give Sentry the job, are they prepared to do it at that price? >> I I can't answer that. I I miss Oh, yes. Yes, I understand. Bids are bids, estimates are estimates. And yes, if it gets to be bid, we have to do an actual formal bid. But to council member Glazer's point, there's all sorts of vendors are that are able to do this work in the city and how do we um get that information out to try to find the best. So, yes, it's great that we have a here's a rough idea of what it's going to cost. >> Correct. >> Yeah, >> Mr. [clears throat] Mayor, >> I guess I'm unclear what we're considering that or I mean, can we make a motion? >> I don't know. Move forward with that fix bids. >> You have two options. You can move forward with this or you could shelf it and budget it um budget for 2027 >> and you could just call this like a rough order of magnitude or initial budgeting cost and then send it back out for 27. Or you can move forward with what you have here. It's close enough that meets your intent. Then you can move forward with a motion >> with getting quotes. You want to get quotes because he didn't get actual. >> He got estimates. He didn't get quotes for the project. >> These have numbers on the estimates, but they could be rough magnitude. And I don't know. I can't ask that. Well, in this premier, >> I mean, it seems that there's there's no [clears throat] project to award here, they're asking us. So, I mean, unless I'm misunderstanding that, I think the thing to do would be make a motion to put it out for bid. I guess I don't know what their option is. >> I guess because you got two estimates right now, but they're already published. So that's where you lose all your ability to compare and contrast >> and and and you start to lose credibility with the contractors that you've already asked an estimate of. So, but the challenge is that this is the we're running into the time of the year where further damage to the building could occur because of water that's running back and the the freeze thaw process, expansion, contraction, breaking concrete, you know, lifting slabs. So, uh, but if the city can save some money and have it done at the same level, I think that's important. >> Agreed. >> And Mr. Mayor, what >> Mr. Glazer hit or council member Glazer, can you bring that quote so that we can be as could be compared? What? I'd be happy to reach out to the contractor >> and then we can just add it to the hockey agenda or you can just push it to 2027 and then by then we'll have hopefully a policy as to how you want this done. >> So we have the funding. So if you take this concept and say hey there's two more vendors or three more vendors in now then that would like and send it all back out and say this is our final quote. you can go that route and then we can talk about it in 10 days >> uh and look at it because I agree with you sitting and waiting on this it's not going to get any better waiting till 27 we have funding available making taking action would be better than waiting >> Mr. I I don't want to speak out of turn for any of the vendors that I spoke to. Uh but the I [clears throat] don't believe that we would be doing them a disservice by requesting a quote because this was an estimate for 2027 and we are quickly approaching the last 60 to 75 days of outdoor pouring that that contractors will put their name on. Probably even less than that. Probably more like 50 days. you middle middle to end of October is about the end of year four. Um so I I think that if it's something that the council deems is is worthwhile moving forward to this year that that we're not doing a disservice to those contractors that gave estimates because they were estimates for the future, not not a bid for work today. >> If you're comfortable with that. So if we can do that, send it out, >> get final votes knowing that the intent would be to do it before the end of the year agenda. >> Correct. And Miss Johnson to the agenda for Mr. Mayor. >> I move that we postpone this decision on this until the September 17th. >> That was a motion. Do I want a second? >> I'll second. >> Second. Any other discussion? Move to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed. Motion carries. Okay. So now our next one is up is uh Glazer, you were up on 6 questions about what? >> Uh Mr. Mayor, it's page 45. 45 and 46. >> Okay. I'm just looking um Miss Johnson and maybe this is a question for Isaac or Eric. It pertains to the replacement of mailbox posts where the the language is changing from we're we're recommending that residents have a metal swing style, but we've taken that out. We're just what are we replacing with if we're >> because it's red it's red line that we we took out >> page 45 we are not replacing them as far as I'm aware unless like city or something has physically hit them >> right >> the weight of the snow for instance for so long has nothing you know we cannot that we're not liable for. I don't I don't know what your wording is that. So, Mary, >> am I missing something? >> Hey, Mr. >> Yeah, please. >> Is is the intent of the document that the removals are strike through out and the changes aren't in red? Don't believe so because we're not going to be replacing anything that is hit. If the city hits it, >> then we're going to I think part of the change >> as the document as a whole >> is the strikethroughs being removed and the >> and the red being added the the rest of the red being added. Yes. >> So we're adding the P piece at the end about recommending swing away post. Correct. >> Okay. But here in this paragraph, it says we're taking replace the support post with a swingway post. >> Okay. The city the city would Okay. The city would replace the mailbox with a swing away with taking that out. Okay. >> So, that's a replacing like with like >> is that our intent? It's at our discretion, but >> the cost of swing post has went absolutely through the roof. So what the city pays for them um we were discussing that unless you guys change the policy a standard soil mailbox post now for the city to install them were at like $200 and before we used to be the post themselves with the materials was I think 75 $65 75 I don't remember the exact Um, so the the price of them has gone through the roof. So unless we change our theories on it, I I believe that we're just discussing about putting a a wood post in, you know, from like Menard or something because the cost is so much greater. >> Good. Go ahead. So, so what we're saying is we are now if we damage your mailbox if our vehicle hits it, not the snow, we will replace a non-decorative metal mail metal mailbox and replace the support post which is a wooden post. We are recommending at the bottom for residents to in for themselves to install a swingway post. >> And we back in the day, we used to sell residents posts or they could pay for us to come and install them. But it takes two people to install them. And for the $20 or whatever we were charging for labor is you know I mean it's not worth our time. So also that we had to propose if we are going to continue with swingway post that the price is whatever you guys have set $50 $75 whatever the number was is almost you know two and a half three times that number. definitely confused a little bit as we've talked through this because one if we're replacing with a swingway post does that mean you've hit their mailbox or you've hit their posts is how does this normally happen? How many mailboxes do we take out a year? >> Trucks themselves maybe one or two. >> So we're not talking >> weight of the snow 50 75. We're saying here we're not responsible if the snow comes off, but if you hit them, that's where >> correct. >> And we go out and look at them. If a resident calls and says, "You hit my mailbox." We go out and look at it. We run a wing. If the wing is 3 ft from the mailbox, we did not touch that mailbox. If it's 2 ft, if the mailbox is installed to a legal height, you're supposed to be able to go right underneath it without hitting anything. People hang a paper box down underneath them or the paper company comes and hangs it underneath their said mailbox. Now you're lowering that 10 in. The wing's going to take it up. >> M and Eric, correct me if I'm wrong, but we had quite a few that were just old wooden post that the weight of the snow knocked them right over. So on a on a metal swingway if that's something that we want to propose, they are put in with a a steel fence post 2 and 12 lb fence post that gets pounded into the ground and then the bolts go through the swing away bracket onto the post. Uh lot sturdier but there again a lot of times some residents won't use railroad ties or something like that. That is illegal state statute. It's illegal. You can't have anything stronger than a 4x4. Not only if we hit it, but if a car goes off the road and hits your railroad tie of a mailbox post, you are liable for their damages. >> Any other recommendations from council members on what should be adjusted or fixed? >> Mr. Mayor, please. >> Um, just two questions and two thoughts. I know that the city doesn't replace turf. that's torn up over sprinkler heads that might be too close to roads. I mean, I guess I don't know what the intent use of this policy document is, but would it merit would it make sense to add those to the list of things we don't cover? I mean, it's in the reg. >> Yeah, I mean that >> I don't we start adding stuff, it's going to add up. Yeah, that's all. >> Mr. The >> challenge would be is if I spend the money on getting a swingway post and then this the snowplow happens to take it out. Now all that money that I spent is gone and I'm just getting a wooden post put in it in for its replacement. And that's doesn't seem fair to me as a resident that happened. I would expect if by chance the swingway post was installed properly and is is taken out that I would be getting replaced with a light forlight swingway post >> which totally makes sense to Mr. Mayor. I think both of you are 100% right. I mean, can we just change that instead of striking out with a metal swingway post? I mean, can we I mean, can we just consider two types of post? Either a swingway post or a wood post. So, if they had a swingway post, we're replacing that, replace it with a swingway post. If they're not, just use a wood post. Replace. >> I think that makes sense. >> Yeah. So, >> yes, I I I agree with Eric. They had shot up immensely in cost because I did have to replace mine, not because the snowflow took it out, because somebody decided to drive on the shoulder on the wrong side of the road and took both my post out. You put it in the last time. Um, so yeah, it's going to get expensive. I mean, it's galvanized and made to swing away, but they do rust and then don't swing. Mr. Mayor, go ahead. >> So, so then the question now he's if we've had $75 budgeted into the public works general supplies, do we need to increase that for the the cost of those? >> Sounds like we've only had two incidents that were replacing >> question. Have we ever had to replace a swingway post or the mailboxes were replacing it all for? >> No, we've replaced one of those swingways. I mean, >> have we taken out a swingway? >> We have >> the old style with the chain and hangs down underneath and the plow the snow hits it, it swings around and then the chain stays spun around. The next time you get snow on it, you usually will snap the chain and then send the top half flying. Is it our policy for now that we're supposed to have a swing away post and a wood post? Isn't that a policy? >> Well, that's what we're kind of discussing. I don't know where we're at. We recommend swingways, but then at you know $175, $200 if the city's uh we also we're going to discuss if the city wants to sell them to residents, we have to come up with a different fee of $65 or $75. >> Whatever the passing cost is. >> Yeah. Um I I thought it was stat statue because I remember this if I could if I remember right I remember mind going down 47 and replacing all of them with swingways but I could be wrong but that's I thought but I was trying to find it and I couldn't. So >> state and county they replace with swingway post just like when they do street for instance they have a company that does mailbox posts come in and install all new ones. Um, actually one of those companies is who we have purchased them through in the past. >> Mr. Mayor, >> um, I guess I would like to make a motion approving snow plowing policy with just this change. uh where the with the metal swing away post is crossed out. Replace it with so and replace the support post with a 4x4. Unless the post being replaced is a swingway post, then we replace it with the swingway post. My concern with leaving as vague as saying the white kind is if someone has a really pretty 4x4 post and they're dissatisfied with their, you know, wood grain 4x4 post or some other some other goofy things. So I'd really like to narrow it down to two posts just for I think that would address our concerns. M did you capture all the >> I did that motion. >> I will second that motion. Any other further discussion? >> Just a little bit. If if we're we shouldn't be shy about figuring out a a more a better agreed about price than $20 for our public works department to go out and put in a post for somebody. I can't charge I I put in post all the time for a living. I can't do it for 20 bucks. >> No, I I agree with that. >> So, we should we should figure out and adjust that and just, >> you know, >> and that would have to come back on the fee schedule. Yeah, I don't think anything is on there for us to install any longer. >> Recommendation is bring up the fee schedule and look at that. What does that cost and let's make >> Let's do two different motions. >> That's a totally thing because we're just talking about >> do a second do that exact same. >> Anything else on policy? Can we move forward with that? Any other discussion? We move to vote. All those in favor. All right. Are you good? Okay. All those in favor say I. >> I. I. >> Opposed. Motion carries. All right. So, policy is done. >> Thank you. >> Okay. You want to make an additional motion? >> So, Mr. here. >> Um, based on my notes I had and what council member Glazer said that staff look at what um, the appropriate cost would be for the city if we were to sell and install swingway posts for the residents and then add that to the schedule update. >> Okay. I guess I would like a motion that council would like public works to go back to doing that as a service again because we it's not on the fee schedule at all now and we don't do that. Is that something council desires to have public works do with their time again? >> Are we getting requests? >> Yeah, I'm ask. No, >> we don't get any requests at all. >> We do once in a great while, but um we also I don't believe it's on the fee schedule any longer to sell a resident all the supplies either for them to install themselves. I believe all that I'm not positive but I believe that was also taken off >> and I can't answer when >> yeah it's if if we have it on the fee schedule it's available to somebody but we have to do it where we're whole and like the mayor said on the swingway post it's a pass through >> right >> and but they pay the actual the full cost >> so >> Mr. question. >> The question to that I would have to Eric and Natalie are do you have the capa would if it took a couple hours to do that do you have the capacity to do that >> a fee? >> No to do you want to be going to if somebody wants to pay the city to replace a post. Um is that something that you want to be doing? I mean, I don't want to do it, but I mean, we're capable of doing it out of install. You >> were talking about it. Do you want to do this? And it went, well, if they say we'll do it, then we'll do it. I'm just asking. >> Yeah, that's that's up to you guys. I mean, that's all part of our daily job description. If that is what you guys want us to do, I'm not going to go out and put one mailbox in this week and then wait 7 days to do another one. this. If we get two or three that people are paying for, then we go out and try and get them handled, you know, on the same day, >> right? So, >> may I answer that from my perspective? No. I don't want them doing that. We can't get all the work done that we need to get done already. >> I think that's the answer. >> That's what I'm trying to figure out. Yes. Because I know >> I know >> two posts ago, yes. I was like, great, the city's got them. I knew they had them. I got one and and and was able to get them and the city put them in, but then this summer I was like, what? They're gone. Um, but the new posts are the new one was relatively easy to just do what do on your own these days because they're made to be no tools with the hammer and go. So I that's the option. So counc I would resend my motion. >> Are we good to move on? >> All right. So the next thing we're going to talk about is engineering. You get to the right page number. So this is uh approval of resolution 2026 feasibility report for 2027 overlay project. So it's on page 75 and this is going to be from uh engineer Isaac Martin. >> Yes. So as seen in the RCA um these roads were programmed in the CIP overlay in next year 2027 and preparing the agenda we did drive the proposed roadways and then as noted there is a small segment on 188th Avenue that is deteriorating too far for a overlay to be effective. costwise. So that would have to take part in a future road reconstruction project as it has deteriorated far enough and that if we get this approval, we will begin the process of a feasibility for the overlay projects next year. So the ones that you're proposing right now is 187th, 188 inman, 224th, 225th, 225th circle, and 226. Is that all the ones that are part of the feasibility report? >> Correct. I heard you say that there's a part of 188. Is that this 188 or is that a different piece? That's it. You said there's a part of 188 that's too too far gone for over. >> Yes, there's a loop section >> where it loops around and it's just a smaller segment of the loop that was originally constructed prior to the rest of the development. So, it's a couple years older and it has major alligator cracking along the curb section. So, if they were to mill next to that curve, they couldn't just flat overlay it because they would have to tie into the curb. If there were a mill next to that curb, they risk excessive damage to the curb and then the potential of having to replace the curb. >> Is that this 188 listed on the RCA? >> Yes. >> So the So we're not overlaying >> I'm I'm trying to understand when you talk about 188 and then you say 188 that we're not doing. I'm confused. So I'm just trying to clarify what is this 188 including the rebuild part or not? I believe there are multiple sections of 188th that we would be redoing. There is the part that is too far gone is an approximately 1,300 ft section. So it's not included in this. >> Yes. So in the RCA, it's mentioned in the third paragraph uh from Boss Street 1300 ft west in the Prairie Acres development in 2002. A lot of mine. So that's why I'm probably confused. Yeah. So that pavement is now it's going to be 25 years old and the overlay is just we risk more cost that >> I understand that I'm just going your RCA is very different than what I have in the packet. So that's where the confusion is coming down. >> I think you're talking about two different pages. We only got 75 I think. >> Oh, okay. It's over the previous page. Gotcha. All right. >> But they do conflict. So I think if we're going to pass them on 76, we got to take 188 out of >> They should be the same. Yes. >> But there are pieces of 188 that are being done. >> Correct. >> There's just a 1300 foot long segment that has curb as part of the Prairie Acres development that was done prior to the rest and the pavement is too far gone. All right. I'll make a motion to approve the resolution 2026 ordering the feasibility study for the 2027 overlay project. I'll >> second. Any further discussion? Move to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. Oppose. >> Motion carries. >> Mr. Mayor, >> go ahead. >> I do want to point out something that engineer Nelson wanted pointed out was um this will be the last project project for several years that does the overlays. Um, beginning in 2028, we will begin with some of the reconstruction, which is why I believe Lori has some of the um road improvement uh parts of the budget going up because we're going to have to do some of the more um damaged roads. >> This is the cost of delay. >> Yeah. >> All right. [clears throat] Okay. Moving on to the fire. Um >> what's that? I just want more. >> We did. >> So, fire chief, he's not here tonight, but just to give you a quick summary, we had 22 calls for August, including 17 medical or fire awaited and one public assist. Fire incidents include two grass fires, one vehicle fire, and one fire alarm. No structure fires were referred. So, overall, another busy uh they did some training on water supply operations, and they continue routine apparatus and equipment maintenance to ensure operational readiness. Any questions from the fire chief? >> Mr. Mayor, go ahead. >> I would just like to say thank you for the format in which the calls were given to us. It's awesome. Where details it out and I appreciate that. >> Excellent. All right, moving on to the sheriff's report. Give you the quick summary here. Um, calls for service. Sheriff and sheriff deputies responded to 131 calls for service. Those calls for service include two alarms, 18 medicals, seven ammo, CFS, and two ordinances. Um, the work ones I will read. There's three of them. On the 4th of August at 5:05 p.m., the 8,030 block of Viking Boulevard, deputy responded to a burglary report at storage unit. And then on 8:25 at 9:42 a.m. address is 21600 block of St. Francis Boulevard. Deputy responded to a theft vehicle uh to a theft from a motor vehicle report. And then the last one was on the 31st of August at 2:14 p.m. The address is 20900 block St. Francis Boulevard. Deputy responded to a group home for a juvenile having a mental health crisis. And then there's all the following reports on that. Any questions on the sheriff's report? >> Mr. Mayor, go ahead. >> That group phone call on the 31st. Is that bar none? Is that bared up? >> It is definitely not. >> Mr. here. What >> what that is is a a private residence that was sold to a company that has it is being used as a group home, but it's under the limit of residents that we don't have any state licenses. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. M Johnson, do we have you received confirmation that Barnum has officially placed their last client? >> I have. Yeah. Okay. Stash lighting is on. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm happy to answer any questions about the monthly report. Doesn't look like we have any questions on uh Mr. Mayor. Um Mr. Nash, I do have one question. is it's my understanding that the city has chosen to retain responsibility of um all the road maintenance at AMD edition that the project that is is AMD edition the project up on the saw >> is yes >> is there is there a legal reason that the city needs to retain um the responsibility of maintaining that's when the the property owner would like to do that himself. >> So, it is platted as a public road and um it's under construction. It's not a road that you've accepted yet, but um I would have to discuss that with the city attorney and get back to you with more information on that. >> So, that it could be changed to a private road. >> I I don't know the answer to them. I'm prepared to check for Um, should we would it be best if I we asked the the property owner first if we want you to enter into that conversation with the attorney for the fee the cost? >> I think that might be a pretty quick question one or the other. >> Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Thank you. Is it okay to move on to um >> Yes, please. >> 11 B. So, I'll cover 11 B and C together. This is related to top second edition. Um some years ago the city had um started with or had approved a platform to top edition and that resulted in the one building that they have that's an industrial building in this location that's off this plat that I'm showing on the screen. So, they had applied recently for a preliminary plot to do seven industrial lots that are located here on sort of the remainder of that western um portion of the land and then another seven residential lots on the eastern portion. During um planning of this, the city engineer and I given the length of this culde-sac and um mixed uses upon it and the traffic level that could be there um we recommended that there be a tonto avenue northwest that be extended to the south because you need to have more than one way in and out of a subdivision, particularly one of that nature. Um, there is some concern that the property to the south has a radio tower on it with a potential lease that could be going on for a number of years. >> Can you pull that up? I think it's important to understand. >> I sure can. >> I know they talked about this in the planning zoning meeting, but for the whole council to see what this looks like. So this again is the property that's the subject of the preliminary plat and this is where that radio tower is. The radio tower um is currently occupying is the only feature occupying a 40 acre tract of land has a likely a shared driveway out to Highway 47. Um so then the developer when they submitted their plans um the plans show a platted Tonto Avenue Northwest so that the rightway would be platted but the plans did not the civil plans did not show construction of that. And um after the first planning commission meeting that we had in July, they then applied for a conditional use permit for deferral of the street paving which is allowed as a process under your ordinances. But they also applied for a variance related to any street construction associated with that proposed Tonto Avenue Northwest. The planning commission at their meeting in August um after significant deliberation adopted a split vote um related to this. They were definitely pretty evenly split, but they recommended denial of both the conditional use permit and the variance opting instead that those um that tanto should be constructed to the property line. Um it was very clear in the meeting. Um and the applicant is here this evening to talk if you um if she would like to say anything or if um you have any questions of her. She was very clear that they don't see a purpose in constructing Tonto Avenue Northwest. And um if that was the case that they were required to do that, they would be more inclined to um do only the industrial portion of the development and then and some of this has come up a little more detail in some discussions her and I have had, but um to then do a culde-sac here instead and have this be something that they would sell off as just one parcel to one person. Um, and then that person could either continue and do the residential development or could potentially build it as one home on one very big lot. So, with that said, in your packet this evening is two things. One resolution that would be denying the conditional use permit and the variance and that is based upon um the planning commission's recommendation. And so, that is what is in your packet. if um and we would ask that you take action on that one before you consider the the preliminary plot because it makes a difference in what is in the preliminary plat resolution. Um if you um kind of jumping ahead a little bit, but if you were to deny the conditional use permit invariance where that's not a development that they would be interested in doing with that tonto in there, then we would ask that you table the preliminary flat motion because they would go back and do um revise their plans so that it would just show the industrial part um with the permanent call the second ending in this location on the screen instead. If you were to be inclined to approve the conditional use permit and variance, um I would ask you to direct us to provide those resolutions and bring them back to the next meeting potentially that one next week schedule and keep moving from there. >> Ma'am, would you like to is there anything you'd like to add? >> I don't. >> No. Okay. So I think that let's go back to planning and zoning because this was the hot topic is all right you have tonto street right here it's really a road to nowhere you have 20 year lot on the or 20-year lease on the tower but then what planning is talking about it was like okay if you don't put it in now we have no control measure to get that road in late and so this was the topic as it shifted back and forth make sure you have full contact is we know it's got going anywhere but if you don't put it in and that does sell in 20 years, then you don't have the road there. And if you don't put it in now, you have no way to pay for it. >> But from a residential standpoint, they're like, why are you putting your road to nowhere? So that that was the topic and it led to a good discussion for 20 or 30 minutes on this. So this one um with no clear I know they voted they voted 4 to three to deny it, but it's not like it was a uh a seven to zero vote. >> Mr. Mayor, go ahead. If Miss Nash, I was at that meeting and I don't recall the length of the road. Would you would you inform everybody in the room the length of that road so they can understand the the potential significance of the cost of paving that road >> of Tanto or >> wasn't it about 300 ft >> and get that for you. >> So Tanto is about 383 ft. So, it's fairly significant the potential problem in the future for the city to put that in. >> Correct. And there would also be risks of um you know, as people are want to do, if there's something vacant there, they're likely to move gardens and playsets and portable sheds and you know, encumber that space. There would also be an ongoing issue or concern about who would maintain that right away in the meantime if it was um if it was not improved as a right away. If if it was just left as a unimproved um strip of land. >> Mr. Mayor, go ahead. >> I just I need clarification, I guess. So the question is whether to put in tanto and the entire reason to put in tanto is to make sure the cost of tanto is covered because in the future if that lot south of it with the antenna currently on it if that is developed it would need to connect to this neighborhood we're discussing now through ta. >> No not entirely that's part of it but not entirely. Part of it is also that 204th Avenue is a long culde-sac with only if you did not construct Tundra, it would be a long culde-sac with only the oneway in and out in perpetuity >> for those >> for those residents along with the industrial users. So, if something were to happen, such as um some sort of an incident where 204th was blocked earlier to the west, um people wouldn't be able to get in and out potentially for hours. >> And as is proposed now, Tanto connects to nothing. Right. >> As it's proposed now, Tanto connects to nothing, but we do this all the time everywhere. >> So, we're always stubbing roads to the next potential development. So it its intent really is I mean it's to provide two ways in and out of that neighborhood eventually but also to connect to a potential future development. >> Correct. >> And if we if we didn't build Tanto there would still be a right there. [clears throat] >> Well so if you didn't build tanto but had it platted then there would still be a platted right of way there. The issue is that you also wouldn't have anybody to build it >> to pay for it. >> And and and I'll I'll just say too, it is when you are putting in something after the fact in a neighborhood, whether it's a street sub like this or a trail connection or anything like that, people tend to not like something to come in that they weren't realizing would be there. >> Is there a compelling reason why? Well, I guess he just explained it why we couldn't make that just a dead end neighborhood and then the land south of it is developed in 20 years. Make that just an unconnected neighborhood. >> I guess I mean I'm not a developer planner, but I'm not seeing a compelling reason. I think if you look at most of the plans coming out is they're doing a a 40 trunk. There is a um an outlet. Not all of them connect everything. And so this is part of the city planning for the long term. >> I I think it's a really important point and I understand from a resident standpoint, but I also understand from the city standpoint. >> Mr. Mayor, go ahead. >> I have a question just to meet >> this would be an example of the the culde-sac coming off like they didn't think about being able to connect because they put that culde-sac right at a wetland. Mhm. >> Had they thought about putting it through, there could have been a potential road through into that neighborhood. >> This one right here. >> Yeah. >> Well, even to the fourth, too. You just got a house right there. But that's how old chose to do it. >> Right. >> Right. It just wasn't thought through as to how to get to those other properties into that development. And if we do the same thing, >> well, someone down the road is going to have the same kind of issue. >> I disagree. I mean, they probably did think it through. Um, they just chose not to connect roads into NA along the way, but this is a this is a large interconnected network of development here that certainly did not occur all at one time. So along the way, they would have sub streets to the next part and then those get picked up and continued on. And sometimes that process takes two years and sometimes it takes 20 years. before it happens. Um, another thing kind of intervening in this all of this area here is that we're bordered, you know, further down on the south by 22, but you know, this property all fronts on 47. We have no connections um with the exception of 200th potentially to the um east into Oak Grove, but um it's really quite limited in terms of how you could develop any kind of a network in here to serve people and and we're going to be restricted likely on the number of accesses on to 47 and 22. And is the variance requested both for tanto and the remainder of 204 into that call sack or is it just tanto? >> Um the variance is requested for just tanto >> Mr. Mayor >> what? So then if we if we deny the CP of the variance for time, the plan then is for uh the property or to remove the residential piece out of that and just do the industrials. >> Correct? If you were to deny the variance in the CV, then [clears throat] we would ask that you table the preliminary plat action and they would go back and revise their preliminary plan to show um to show a difference. So they would not have put the back up. Generally speaking, the lots as they are. So these are the the end of the industrial lots here. They would put a permanent culde-sac here and then you know we'd have to talk about what that looks like if this rest of this could either be an out lot or they could plan it as one lot and they have had interest from people who are interested in constructing their residential home on just that whole back acreage. Miss Ash, can you go back to like the aerial view? So the building on the left they built that's their existing building now. >> So we're talking about across the street to the west and then the property. Do they own the property to the north? I can't remember if they do that. >> They do not. They do not. Okay. So there's no way that we could try to come in from that quadrant above 24 into that. Okay. >> Well, there there There could be, but then you would have to trade. >> Well, you could, >> but if they don't own it, then Yeah. >> Well, no, you could do the same thing. You could require a ST road, you know, up to there, >> just as TTO has shown to the south. >> Um, that would impact, I know, it's a little bit harder to see on here, but that would impact one of those, >> right? So that would reduce the number of commercial but I couldn't >> Mr. Mayor um I would be I guess okay with just eliminating Tonto alto together but I wouldn't be okay with deferring it because if it still exists there and it's going to be a part of the connection to the next neighborhood. I agree that deferring the cost of that is not ideal and I I don't know that eliminating Tom together is ideal but in my brain it doesn't seem like the end of the world to have a dead neighborhood there. Um, can I ask Mayor and Councilman Blazer, you guys were at this meeting? You were probably alone and we're talk we're talking now and what are your thoughts on if you would share after having sat through that maybe further discussion? I'll go first on that. So what they shared was exactly that um the TTO for future development reasons is there you either have to build it out. So that's what the goal was is that if you're going to do it, deny this and build it back. Um, and then the only argument was just don't pave it. But then we don't know who's going to pay for it in 20 years because that's really where it comes. So what I don't want to do is so my position is I do not want to position the city to absorb any costs in 20 years or whenever because this road is not built. So my vote would be to require deny the claim just the same thing the planning and zoning did because I think from a future building standpoint is good but we don't want to pay for it. So, I think that what it's going to force the owners to do is say, "Hey, we're going to build the commercial side and sell the res residential complete. This is one lot instead of that would be my my mine would be the same." And and what I took from the property owners, they're not overly concerned if they have to sell that as one parcel. They potentially may have somebody already that's interested. We turned down an offer already um on it because we didn't want to sell to the residential first. You know, in business, you want to sell your light industrial lots and cars. You're not going to sell a residential lot and then have them build and um that's not our primary focus as the residential lot. Sure, it's more tax based having seven lots for the city, but long time with us. We don't have a preference. We just want to get rid of it. We don't it's not our primary. We want to get rid of the light industrial. We want just be done with with building and anything with the city and planning and it's just not our forte. That's why we thought for so long. It's just not what we do. >> More question for that. Do we know when the lease is up for the radio station? um >> at least right now obviously they can redo it but >> we have we don't have any concrete evidence of when it is up it was testified during the public hearing that it's that they will just sign a new lease for another 20 years I think they said >> so assuming they assign a 20-year lease that tower is going to be there for another 20 and that lot's not >> Mr. Mayor >> to clarify I guess there is no option being discussed of eliminating the existence of tons avenue altogether just letting them develop that strip right it's either choosing to defer the tonto or not right hasn't been the discussion but it doesn't mean it can't be the discussion >> all right and I don't mean to interject my uh layman's opinion into your plan here but yeah I guess if the choice is deferral or not deferral. I think uh I had enough information but the elimination of council alto together is an option consider what was the reason again it's all about future expansion decision. >> Sure. Thank you Mr. Mayor. So we wouldn't that would be at the discretion of the council of course. Um planning and engineering would not recommend the elimination of tanto because um public safety reasons, connectivity of neighborhoods. There's a lot of reasons but generally speaking this is you know about a about 2,000 feet of culde-sac here which is longer than we typically would want to see in a permanent situation. So Mr. Mayor, >> so would we then do the call the second the corner of 204 and >> what? No. Um, Mr. Mayor, >> correct me. what um the applicant is discussing as a possibility then would be somewhere in this location where it's the current break between industrial and residential putting the permanent culde-sac there and um so that this would have enough frontage on a culde-sac as well and those rules but it would so it would basically be right in this area wherever that kind of shook up to be. So let's say we We split in half and at the avenue would be the call that what happens when that other lot splits this one. >> Yes. If if they sell it as one lot to let's say a developer I I don't know if they sell it to a developer and that developer wants to split that lot. How are all those houses going to get in and out back on the 204th and what is that? They have to build the road. >> Yeah. They they would have to come in and build that >> road. Would at that time you would also request >> tonto. Any other questions for Miss Nash on this one? Tell me what what does the property owner prefer? >> I think so. >> What? >> Yeah. >> The road or the development? Do you rather than doing the tonto in the longer row, would you prefer just to end it at the corner where the avenue is with the culde-sac >> and let the next people deal with it? >> We're just not going to put in the expense. It just a question of the property zone to the south there where um the iart radio has it that is residential or that's commercial or like just because I know the property to the left directly south of us is like correct >> um let me think that's the only answer >> yeah let me verify that but give me a moment to get this on the map Thought somebody asked you that question. I thought you said it was >> that was long enough for I don't remember. I just stop [clears throat] right industrial. >> Yeah. So directly south would be R where the um tower is today. Mr. Mayor, >> I don't live here. I just work here. Right. But the residents don't want a lot of homes. And it was brought up through talking with engineer Nelson, how many homes we need on a onem stretch to be able to go. Ultimately, it just goes as one lot for one home. It's probably better out for the city because it's the road that we're working with is pretty much already there. >> Mr. Mayor, >> I I mean I agree with that. I I don't know how the math would exactly work out because tax base that neighborhood would add to be more than just a single house on property. But your point is correct that I think the cost of maintaining that additional road isn't covered by the neighborhood. But that I mean that sort of adds more weight in my mind to elimination of town all together if that doesn't actually add any residences. It just adds cost and a connection between two theoretical neighborhoods. Again, I'm not a planner, but it just seems like sort of an unnecessary cost, but that's not on the table. Um, >> she said we have to break these off. Go ahead, please. >> Um, member Swinson, that is not an option that I presented to you, but that certainly is an option if you wanted us to rewrite something and go back and look at something that we could bring that back in the bindings. >> I don't feel like I have a sufficient basis to uh request that [clears throat] amount of work be done. Since the owner said she's indifferent on either way, if we just vote to deny the cup and the variance, they're going to move forward and sell off as one lot. That's going to be my recommendation. That's a recommendation from planning and I would like to go forward with a motion to make that happen. Um just trying to figure out which page we're on. Is it 93? Is that >> 91? So we have to take these. So the first one is the conditional use permit. >> The first one is the conditional use permit and variance in one resolution. >> Okay. >> Would anybody like to make a motion on this one? >> Mr. Mayor, council member, >> I uh I move that we adopt a resolution denying the conditional use permit and the variance for the top position. Second. >> Any further discussion? Hearing none. Let's move the vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed. Motion carries. Okay. So now you want to not do the preliminary plot at this point. >> Correct. At this point, we would ask that you table indefinitely the preliminary plat rather than meeting certain um they'll go back and rework the preliminary plot a little bit to eliminate some of these parts of it. And um we want to make sure to keep the current application as it is open. Mr. Make a motion to table the approval of the preliminary plan for the development known as commission. Second have a second further discussion. Hearing none. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Oppos. Motion carries. So seat is complete. Let's see. I'm moving on the Edinburg edition. >> EMTT Emttsburg edition. >> Mr. Mayor, >> I just have a question before we start this. I'm reading everything in here, both your monthly update and the documentation here. Um, that we're taking three parcels and going down to two, but the RCA says three parcels into three. So, I is that just a typo? >> That is three parcels into two. >> Um, I have that flat on your screen. Um they are also they're doing it as a preliminary plat and they're taking advantage of the portion in your subdivision regulations that allows them to plat lots that are smaller as long as the density is still averaging out to five. So um the applicant has um acquired the parcels around him because they were for sale. Um by doing that he's able to clean up some existing border issues, some encroachments and such, but basically also then um make his own lot larger. So the the plat is um before you just two lots. The one will be down to just about a little over the 2 and 1/2 acres. That's the minimum required. There will be rightway plotted for um um county vote there and I think it's pretty simple. Planning Commission recommended approval. >> Mr. Mayor, go ahead. >> Make a motion [clears throat] to approve the preliminary and final platform development known as the Pittsburgh edition based on the findings that >> we should that one. It's good. Any further discussion? Hearing none, let's go to vote. All those in favor say I. >> Opposed? Motion carries. >> Mr. Mayor, can you move the second? I I don't know. >> They come out. I don't know. >> All right. So, that one's complete. So, do you have one more out here next? >> I do. So, the applicant for this property has um >> 137. >> No, we're in the 145. >> 145. 145 it is. >> I didn't make it very. >> All right. So, we're on the next one is Mr. Sears requesting approval for a minor subdivision for a new law. >> Yes. Thank you. So, what is shown on this certificate of survey is slightly different than what is actually needing to happen. So, he has the survey itself shows a parcel A here and a parcel B here. In reality, his This parcel is larger than this. It also includes a bunch of land to the south. So parcel B would be required to be added to the land to the south even though that's not being shown here. Um because we can't landlock a piece and this is too small, etc. There's all kinds of reasons why that can't be a parcel on its own. Um but generally speaking, it's a it's a one lot subdivision for him to um subdivide off a parcel for his son. The reason it's before you is because um it's also fronting on 27th Avenue and that is existing by user. So we need to be able to accept an easement for the right way on it which all of that's embedded within the um the resolution in front of you for approval. So we've been in process for a long time >> has been >> and I will be excited to move forward on this. >> Mr. Mayor, >> go ahead. >> I move that we adopt the resolution program minor subdivision uh for Mark Siri at Q490. >> Second any further discussion hearing? None. Let's move to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. Opposed. Motion carries. Okay. Miss Johnson courts update. >> Um I can stand for questions on any of them on there. The only one I really want to emphasize is again a thank you to um the fire department for requiring the training that they have because we did have an incident at the office um where somebody was having an asthma attack and it was quite severe. and it was great to have him and he was um Captain Schultz was able to get there very quickly even though it was his day off. Um I do want to add that I there was money left from the events area for the uh from our Comcast donation. So I did order a city tent for us to use at the events and for the farmers market next year. So, it will be very professional looking, has City of Don on it. And I also wanted to give you a reminder of a hunt fish feed um on September 21st, but if you haven't RSVP, please get that done. Um, I do believe the other thing I need probably need to talk about was the um, there was a lawsuit that changed um, what we have to do for election judges. There are four particular duties that an election judge has to do. If we happen to get them during the early voting, I have to have a party from or a judge from each party um for all 18 days. I don't have a budget for that, but I am going to have to hire I have reached out to two different um a Democrat and a Republican of the judges asking if they would be interested in working at they're looking at their schedules because it is a lot of hours. It's not only the weekday hours that we're open. It's also the two Saturdays, the Tuesday till 7, a Sunday, and Monday before the elections until 5. Um so just making you aware that um there will be some overages in the budget for that. Um, one of the things that, uh, deputy clerk and I have talked about is it will loosen up staff time then for early voting because the two judges will be doing all of the early voting themselves instead of having staff have to do that. So, that will open up some of the staff time a little bit. Anyway, >> how do we pay the elections? How does that work? >> It's we write them a check. It's $15 an hour and >> stuff to come up >> to add up the hours that this requires beyond what we budgeted for. >> I did not I got this notice like on Thursday last week. So I haven't spent a ton of time on it except to get you what I received from the county to let you know about it. >> Um to council member. So it's 18 days total including the weekends two people. So, it's 36 days at a minimum 8 hours a day. Some are longer. So, you're looking at about 290 hours >> at $15 an hour. >> $4,320. It's >> and that's >> it's significant >> and and that doesn't include all our that's just the wage. doesn't include the u not the earn Minnesota leave um that the city's obligated to pay >> and we don't get a choice in this choice. >> It's a state mandated. >> Are all of those hours new hours that we don't do now or do we do? >> No, they're hours that we do now, but the deputy clerk and I always covered them all. >> Gotcha. All right. So, these are all new hours for elections. >> Correct. So, either she or I will still have to be there. on those on the Saturdays and Sundays so that you know they can be in the office to do the work. But um so like I said the only benefit is is that it frees up staff's time but unfortunately again it's a statemandated thing. So Mr. Mayor >> um I am willing to help out as much as I can but 18 days is a lot of days um to commit. Now, some of those are weekends. Um, but it's [snorts] a lot of days to commit. In order to commit from 8 to 4, I have to change many um existing commitments. [clears throat] But based on this, I think, and I know we just talked about budget, um I think it's important that we look at what are we paying our election judges. This is a significant increase in requests for hours and the majority of our I should say majority a good number of our um election judges work. So that means they have to take vacation time or sick time or whatever their whatever they get. Um, and even as a retired person, 18 extra days in a short period of time, you know, over a year be, but it's a short period of time. And I just think we need to look at our compensation level for our lunch judges. >> What is there a recommendation with that? >> I I have not gone that far in it. No, >> I think we can bring that back. >> Yeah. was because when Natalie reached out to me at one of the parties, >> I misread her email and I thought, "Well, yeah, I'll do the evenings and I'll do the weekends of the couple long days." >> And then she says, "I don't think I you saw what I said." [laughter] And that's that's yeah, Monday through Friday. >> Mr. Mayor, >> just commenting on that, just doing a quick Google search and first thing that came up was >> election judges in Minnesota typically paying between 14 and $175 an hour. So, we're already in that ballpark. >> Mr. Mayor, >> do we uh save on what did you say they're all daytime hours or are these people staffing on weekends, too? >> And so, are we going to save on any overtime hours? like, well, now only one of either you or Lexi needs to be in on the weekends. We'll only take one out. >> Well, I'm salary, so it doesn't matter. Um, I am not available at least one of those Saturdays. Um, but I believe, you know, we'll still have overtime like plan for [clears throat] >> for Lexi on some that >> and it is something that's going to affect the 2027 budget as well because that was already set. I just got this. I notified Lori and she said nothing we can do about it now. I mean, I'm not going to go back and and change elections. Um, if perhaps there's a special election next year for 2028, we can put it in that'll be fine. >> Well, there's we can change the budget. It's just a matter of we just can't the hole can't go up, right? But it would mean taking from somewhere else. >> Taking from somewhere else to make it work. [clears throat and cough] Okay. Anything else? >> Uh, nope. That would be it. >> All right. So, can we move on to new business then? So, first one on the books is authorizing the sale of the 2000 year 2000 plow truck. >> Mr. Mayor, go ahead. >> I'm just going to make a motion authorizing the sale of the 2000 plow truck. >> I'll make that motion and then make a comment. >> Second discussion. >> Yes. Open for discussion. >> I'm assuming We're going to be selling it as we have done in the past that it's going to go to auction. Yes. Correct. Okay. Just >> it would go back to the bid to buy with the other items. >> Yep. Just confirming because it does didn't spec unless I get missed it. >> It's on the last line in page 137. It says sell to auction. What? >> I think it's already there actually. >> No, it's still truck. >> Yeah, someone else. Ours is still in the shop. And you're right. It says auction, but I didn't specify bid to buy. >> No, that is right. Go ahead. Any other discussion? >> Let's move forward with the vote. All those in favor say I. I. Oppos. Motion carries. Truck is done. Next one. Brian's insulation. And this was if we wanted to move forward to try to get it done um this year. There was money in the building fund for Miss Jagger. Um it was I had Chad look at these as well as um the mayor that got back to me for it. And you know, Brian's installation came in a little bit cheaper. We do need to do his option one. So it it would be the 5150 plus the,400. Those are things that um with talking to Chad, most of you know he's a licensed general contractor as well, and he said if he was going to use them, that would be probably the best thing to do. Um that is our recommendation because if we can get that insulation in before it gets too cold, maybe we can save some energy costs in this building. Um but again, it'll be up to council if we want to move forward with some of this work. Mayor. >> Sure. >> I would move forward that we approve the resolution approving the estimate of $5,150 to Brian's installation um for the historic town hall, including option number one for $1,400. So, a total of 6550. >> Second. Any discussion? Hearing none, let's move to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. Oppos. Motion carries. Next one, Minnesota flags. What's up, >> Mr. Mayor? Council members and obviously about a lot of feedback on it. There was the um [sighs] Facebook poll unofficial. Um lots of comments, lots of um action about the flag. would like to bring it back for council to reconsider to either remove it or put the old plan back up. >> Mr. Mayor, Council Brown, I'll make a motion to to uh remove the to go back to the old Minnesota state flag at all city properties wherever we fly to the flight. >> Okay. Discussion. >> Um yeah, >> yeah, I guess my position on this hasn't changed. I respect that a lot of residents feel strongly about it. I don't necessarily think the poll done on Facebook is representative. Um, it could reflect the well now then, but I don't think it's representative because it didn't it doesn't have a a random sampling. Um, but I guess more importantly, I still see the issue as a political issue. And in my mind, the only way to avoid making a political decision on this is just to fly them in so safe way. I see my job on council is not making or weighing in on, you know, polit state political debates or national political debates. I mean, we're here to set and administer a budget, uh, essentially. And so, for that reason, I I still think, you know, it's the state flag. We continue to apply the state flag, and that's the only way to avoid injecting politics into this issue. I I I agree um with council member Senson. This is was brought to us um in a partisan manner. We are a nonpartisan group. Um and we should stay with that. That's that's what we're supposed to do. Um I would I I'm not a fan of the new flag. Um but we are a city within the city. We are a city within the state. If we choose to fly a flag, it should be the state flag whether we like it or not. And if we choose not to fly, I would then prefer choose to choose not to fly the state just stay with the US flag. Um there's another proposal um following this in regards to the veterans memorial um for the one of the flag pools there. So I I to go back to an old flag is to me not that just doesn't make sense. I again we are a city within the state um the state decided um that we have a new flag and either we fly that or we don't just uh take this from the talk a little bit. Um so it's come up multiple times. um it's not an issue that is going to go away and so I think it needs to be addressed and um Steve Steve Schmidt brought it up is the council is supposed to represent the the citizens of of now and this makes it very difficult so we don't have great tools to survey but we did a survey actually this survey was from the now Facebook which does include some uh friends or people that work in there so it's not 100% % pier. But if you look at the numbers, it was 216 voted four flying the old flag uh as compared to 20 for the new flag and then there was 14 and I'll say remove the flag just give it something else. So it's not statistically significant to state but what you can say it's an overwhelming majority um in favor. So that's the difference because it's you can't convert margin of error when you don't have an unbiased poll. So I I fully agree with what you stated, but this issue continues to come up and continues to come up. So this particular case, the resolution was to remove the current state flag from the city office flag pole. That was the request for action. The motion was to fly the old flag. And this is the debate, but I I would really like now them to become united in this and and we're not. And it was brought up partisan, but even if it was brought up partisan, the goal of the council is to represent the majority. And that's that's the struggle I've had. If you look at other cities, Oak was flying it, St. Francis was flying it, River's flying it, Ramsey to our south is flying the new state flag. So it is, but it just keeps coming up. So, in this particular case, and just as I stated last time, I don't want to be partisan on it. The goal is to remain nonpartisan. But since it's not going away, I think the the only thing that I would like to do is state that if we don't fly the old flag, I think we're not representing what our community wants. I understand the concept of the flag, and I'm not trying to be indifferent, but I believe that's what the residents want. I've talked to many um and the majority give me that same answer as they would like to fly the old state. So I I I want to change my position from where I still would like to remain nonpartisan but I would like to fly the previous flight. So you already had a motion. Is there any other further discussion? >> Mr. Mr. Mayor, >> go ahead. >> Could I ask the maker the motion? Um, council member Brian, you had said fly the old plague at all location, city locations >> where we've flown it before. That was that was my motion. >> Did I hear? Okay, I missed hearing that. >> We have flown it. We have flown the safe way at more locations than just the city office. >> Okay. >> So, I would like to return to the previous status quo. >> Where where's it? >> This was out at Twin Lakes. >> Twin Lakes Park >> at least there. I don't know exactly where where else it has been. I don't know if it's at the office >> city office as well. >> It would be at the Mr. Mayor. >> Say that again. >> It would be at the office and at Twin Lakes Park. >> Okay. Twin Lake Park also. Go >> ahead. Uh, council member Brian for council member Randle's sake. Would you be willing to amend a motion to include not including the uh veterans memorial? >> I'm willing to I would I made a motion. I'd like to at least have a vote on it. And if people want to vote it up or down, they can vote it. Then depending on the result of that motion, we can um address another possibility. >> And to Mr. Mayor, >> to council member Glazer, if if council member Brian has stated that his motion is the old flag at all locations has previously been flown, it has not been flown there. So it eliminates that. So >> any other discussion? Okay, move [snorts] to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed. >> Motion carries. >> Okay. That leads on to the next one which is council rainbows. >> Council as you know we're renovating the the memorial. Um we had a request from one of our committee members. Um and his suggestion was forwarded to this committee on September 2nd via email. The committee has not met um in regards to this um and I cannot speak for committee members um but Mr. Bot is requesting your support in replacing the Minnesota flag state flag Minnesota state flag slated to fly at the memorial with an armed forces flag featuring the all military branches emblems. This change would ensure that our memorial remains focused solely on honoring the Nelvin veterans who served and sacrificed for our nation. The armed forces flag represents unity, service, and the shared commitment of all branches of industry. By adopting it, we eliminate any controversy surrounding the state flag and reaffirm the memorial's purpose is to recognize the men and women who wore the uniform, not to engage in debates unrelated to their service. Again, I Mr. Babcock respectfully ask your support and in favor of this change so that the memorial continues to reflect the values, dignity, and honors our veterans deserve. So, I would move that um we vote to approve the use of the all military flag at the Veterans Memorial and that was an example of it in 2016. >> Mr. Mayor, >> oh, go ahead. I was just consider Mr. Sure. Go ahead. >> To cultivate, was this an example of the flag or is this the recommended flag? >> This is the the recommended one. It just was the most um it has it has the branches and it is the most visible. Some there are other versions, but they're muddy. >> I know there's black on there's black back I've seen black backgrounds and white backgrounds. My other concern was currently the US military has six branches of six branches and would we be including space force in this play? >> We we did not because what we did is continued on with what um was originally planned which is the five branches and that's what our monuments are. >> I understand the monuments may not have might not have these six but there are six rec six recognized military branches today. Are we saying that um that we're not that they're not included? If >> I miss Council Member, I can research that and find another flag into what else >> I mean the six there's a flag exactly like this with Space Force on it. >> Okay. >> Is that what you like to see? >> I'm just bring I mean if we're going to include all the military branches, we should do our best to include all six. >> That's why in the memorial there's only the five. >> The five. Yeah. Right. I think that recommendations, >> right? So, but I'm just Yeah, I mean it's we >> that's >> Are you going to amend your motion? >> I will amend the motion the use of an all military flight which would be the six. >> I'll second the amended motion of the six. >> Any further discussion? Hearing none. Let's move to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Oppos. Motion carries. >> Council Ray, you're up again. >> Yes. So, speaking of dragons, um, as my motion states or my RCA states, um, I asked for forgiveness. Um, Tuesday, September 1st, I was I got a phone call regarding the renovation of the NA Veterans Memorial. Um, I had to act in the moment based on what I believed was the right thing to do to preserve the dignity of the memorial and to ensure it remains a city amenity now that residents can be proud of for years to come. I take full responsibility and accept all criticisms for my actions. Um, I had left the site after having conversation with the um, metal fabrication company and the concrete company. They were waiting for the flag pole representative to arrive. I had to believe the flag pole person was late. Couldn't figure out why. Um found out later that he was at the uh Lake View Cemetery. And the reason it was a flag cemetery is when he had his representative um who lives in now then go out and take a picture of the flag pole that then he bid the two flag poles to match. He took the picture of the flag pole at the cemetery and not here. And when he got here he realized it's different. The flag pole we have is a different color and it's the external hill hillard which is the mechanism that makes it go up and down where the new ones are a different finish and everything is internal. So he said it doesn't feel good and all I could think of is driving your green [clears throat] pickup truck that you smash the fender on and now you're driving around with a red fender. That's all I could think of is it's just not going to look right. So, I told him to order the new flag pole. The flag pole price that he gave me with installation is $6,700. Based on his air, he is willing um he is offered a price of $3,500, which includes the installation. He said that we can um if we want to, we could list the existing flag pole on the bid to buy um to recoup some funds. We didn't know for sure what we'd get maybe $1,000 for though a city staff has talked to me um since then to see if maybe it's something we maybe want to put at the city offices because it's a taller play than what is there. Um I you know I know I didn't have the right to do it but I was that there was concrete coming to delay it would have delayed the project and had we chosen not to put the other two in we still had promised to make the order so we still would have had the expense of the other two. So, I am asking for authorization for an additional I'm going to pad in a little bit $10,000 from park improvement funds where we currently have a balance of $22,300 to cover the additional expense. I will cons continue to seek donations from our residents and our businesses. Um, and anything I get additional will offset that additional $3,500. Um, if anybody knows a business or a resident that is interested in donating, have them contact me or give me their number and I will contact them. >> Go ahead. Um what I would on that note of asking for additional [clears throat] donations, I would like to um if we don't have to make this decision today, maybe we'd be table to our next meeting on the 17th. I have already started approaching residents and other and business owners in regards to this with the change in the flag. I appreciate the fact that we're going to be flying this armed forces flag alongside the federal flag and PS flag >> and so are the people that have talked. They they appreciate that. >> Well, yeah. And I have had conversations with businesses that flat out refused to donate to it because it was going to be the Minnesota flag. >> Yeah. So, I I guess I would I'd like both of us to take, you know, time between now and our next meeting and uh see how what we come up with as far as additional funds >> and then make a decision as far as uh parkation funds. >> We're we only truly need $3,500. >> Is that the true ask? >> It is the true ask 3500. Um I added an additional because what that will take. One of some of the funds that were already there was going to be landscaping and stuff. So, we're going to have to look at landscaping. And in talking to the metal fabrication, um his pricing is subject to tariff and and some redesign fees. And he said that since he originally did this, the tariffs have gone up. I suppose it's like the blank or the swing away on you know the for the mailboxes. >> So, It's going to cost. So, we're asking for more money. I I agree with Council Bl. I would really like to cover this with donations. I know the city donated 20,000. You've done a fantastic job of pulling in donations. And if we can shelf this, I think it's great. And let's see what we can do as as a group to see if we can get five or $6,000 more than >> Yeah. I mean, we other than the donation of of 20 from the city, you've raised $24,000. I think that's wonderful. >> Done a great job. And I won't be at the uh I'm not telling for the festival. So, but I think that we have the little container there again that's got made and he wants to. >> Okay. Recommendation is to shelter until we're meeting on that work. >> All right. Thank you, Council Member for your >> I'm just trying to get a clarification. So, I'm going back to our minutes from that we had in our 18 packet that was I'm pretty sure this was presented at a July meeting, but that said that the cost got reduced to 32,260 and then there there was 19,64 um beyond that. And was that the cost or was that donations? The committee has raised $19,64 beyond that revised cost. So, I'm just trying to make sense because if I'm doing the math, that says we already have the 51,000. >> We don't. No, it was changed. There's multiple changes in between. >> Okay. So, I don't know if I was trying to find where those have been presented to council to go with that change. So, if I may request an updated list of what we're doing >> as far as >> overall I don't I don't I'm trying to figure out where we went how we went from >> from $32,000 back up to an now an estimated of 51 because even if we had the 51,000 we should have it covered. So, so we had money but didn't have enough to cover both of the flag the two new flags original, >> right? >> And then we got two big donations. So then we had enough to cover the two flag poles plus some extra. But this comes in and takes up some of that extra. should coverage up to like 44,000. >> I'm still not following the cost because this says that the project cost is 51,000 but in that meeting we had 51,000 to cover it. So >> not clear to me. >> I will look at the numbers. >> Just do an update on that. >> Show us all the true cost. >> Oh, you would like a motion to >> wait. >> I have a question. Um, so I don't know if I was supposed to put my name on that sheet earlier or whatever, but I noticed on here you had a a number six here for consent. Um, and it would be the E for tractor pole. >> Yes, ma'am. >> I'm Michelle Oper. >> Hi. >> Me and my husband run the tractor pull them. >> Anyhow, um, I didn't we saw this on here. My husband's out of town. He asked me to come to the meeting tonight. We have the tractor pull October 3rd. Is this approval for the liquor license for that? Already done. >> So, we're good. You're all set. >> Okay. Thank you. That's [laughter] >> Yeah, we got approved in consent. You're good to go. >> Okay. Thank you. >> But thanks for staying for the whole meeting. >> There's a motion on the second. >> All those in favor say I. I. I.