All right, we're going to call this meeting to order. Today is 17 June at six o'clock and we're going to start off with the pledge of allegiance, please. Miss Johnson, will you do roll call, please? Mayor Hibben here. Council member Blazer here. Council member Brian here. Council member Rainville present. Council member Senson here. here. Video. Uh, attorney Rupy here. Engineer Nelson here. And myself, Natalie D. Perfect. Next thing we'll do is, uh, approve the agenda. Is there any discussion on the agenda? Can we move to approve the agenda? Mr. Mayor, I would like to add to the agenda of resolution declaring the official intent of the city of NA then to reimburse certain expenditures from the proceeds from improvement bonds to be issued by the city. I make that number 3.5 then or 3B. 3B. There you go. That's 3B. Mr. Council member Brian motion to approve the agenda as amended. All right, we got already got a second. All right. Um, so let's do our vote. All those in favor say I. Mr. Mayor, you can't Dan's remote. You are correct, sir. All right, we have somebody remote, so we have to do a roll call vote. All right, so but the but council member Quincson cannot participate. You can't vote. So, can we go back to normal voting again? He can't unless he is not participating. He's just clear he can comment but he cannot make a motion and cannot participate in any vote. Okay. So we'll go back to normal voting then. All those in favor say I. I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. Okay. So agenda is approved with the exception or with the addition of 3B. All right. So we'll move on to the public hearing for the proposed assessment of the 2025 overlay road projects. Um, anybody, Miss Johnson, would you grab the sheet back there to see who signed up to speak? So, anybody, if they do come to the podium, please state your name and your address. And we have to make sure the microphone is turned on. Mr. Mayor, go ahead. Um, perhaps before we open up the public comment, I do have a presentation prepared tonight. Uh, it's essentially a lot of the information that was provided at the the first improvement hearing, uh, the public improvement hearing. Uh and that might answer a lot of the residents questions. Okay. Uh if you want me to go through that quickly. All right. So just ask the ask the audience here uh if there's any concern if we can do the PowerPoint first or is there anybody that wants to speak that's not uh related to the road project. So we have it on our agenda that we approve. So right now there would be a time if anybody wanted to speak or we can hold it until after the presentation. Presentation. Okay. Everybody good on the council with that? We'll adjust the schedule. All right, Mr. Nelson, you uh you get to take the lead with the presentation. Your mic is on. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh so this uh presentation is on the proposed 2025 overlay project. Uh just a couple of quick location maps. uh includes Krypton Street, uh Lithium Street, 189th Lane, and and the the area of proposed improvement is kind of shown in pink on these maps. Uh Tiger Street, 194th lane. Uh so just by way of background, uh City of Neland owns and maintains about 36 miles of paved roads and 25 miles of gravel roads. Uh so over 60 miles total. uh and just uh simply does not uh levy enough money to fully fund their reconstruction and overlay projects. Therefore, they've adopted this method uh in which their uh improvement projects are partially assessed to the benefiting properties and partially paid for with city funds. Uh so this is a second public hearing. The first public hearing was held on March 11th, 2025. Uh some more background. Uh according to the records that we have in our office, the pavement was originally constructed on these roads between 1994 and 2000. Uh therefore, all the pavement is at least 25 years old in some places uh 29 years old. Uh and what we what we've seen out there is is normal deterioration. So, uh, we've seen cracking and or, uh, uh, deterioration that's kind of anticipated for roads of this age. And really, these roads were selected because they're still worth saving. They're not deteriorated to a point where they need a full uh, reclaimment overlay or a full reconstruction. uh we can still do kind of a lesser uh repair and extend the life and try to achieve the lowest life cycle cost for these roads. Uh so just a couple of quick pictures. This is the existing uh condition of Krypton Street. You can kind of see some pattern cracking happening on the right side of this picture uh in the wheelpass. Another picture of Krypton Street. Again, uh there's some some cracking here. Uh, one thing I want to mention about cracking, I'll get to this uh, in a minute too, but uh, these cracks that you see are fairly normal. Uh, pavement uh, because of our our our temperature differences in Minnesota. Uh, you know, we experience highs of around 100 degrees Fahrenheit in the summertime. In the winter time, we might have below zero weather. That's a swing of of roughly 100 degrees. Uh, and when when that happens, the payment contracts. So it it has to it has to crack when it contracts in order to relieve the stress. Uh in certain uh surfaces such as concrete, we try to tell it where to crack by sawing control joints or it used to be tooling control joints. Uh but with pavement, we generally just let it crack where it develops the most stress. Uh and then we uh we try to crack fill those cracks as best as possible uh to prevent water from going into the underlying aggregate base. Uh, here's a couple pictures of Lithium Street. I'll just kind of go through these somewhat quickly because most of you know the condition uh of your roadway. Uh, now we're on 189th Lane, Tiger Street, Tiger Street, 194th Lane. Uh, there are some areas like this. This is on 194th lane where uh the pavement is a little bit too deteriorated to just uh construct an overlay on. So areas that look like this with what we call alligator cracking, we are proposing to to do patching prior to the overlay. Our our kind of our goal is uh when we're done with the improvement project, we want, you know, the entire road uh to kind of have the same strength so it has about the the same uh amount of life remaining. So, why is a city proposing this project? Um, and really it's based on research that MDOT or other state agencies uh do MINDOT uh typically spends around three to four million a year on research. Obviously, the the city's not going to spend that kind of money doing our own research. So, therefore, we rely on their research. Uh, and generally what they find is that when payment deteriorates, it deteriorates in accordance with the curve that's up on the screen. Uh the really interesting thing I think of this uh of this deterioration curve is that first 40% drop in quality happens over 75% of the payment life. So if you think of a 20-year road, that first 40% drop in in quality would would happen uh would take 15 years for that first 40% to occur and then the next 40% drop in quality happens in 12% of the payment place. So, the roads you and and I've been around long enough to attest to this. Roads kind of stay in okay to fair condition and then once they start cracking, they tend to crack really fast uh until the entire surface needs to be replaced. So, one other thing uh to point out on this is uh $1 of renovation at that 40% drop in quality light quality would uh cost 8 to$10 uh if you wait till a total reconstruction is needed. So there is some kind of some timing parameters that we try to adhere to. Uh this this my estimation of some of these payments they might be slightly under that 40% line. Um but we're trying to get it before we get down to that uh 8 to10 $8 to $100 actually on the slide. So a little bit about pavement. So pavement is a mixture of uh aggregate. Uh the aggregate is actually what provides the strength and helps transfer and spread out the loads. Uh then it also has sand and oil in it. Uh the sand is kind of the the filler that fills in the voids between the aggregate and then think of the oil as the glue that that kind of uh binds everything together. So when a a road is new, it has a black surface and when it has a black surface, uh you know, one thing that we can tell is okay, this still has good oil content at least in that upper layer of pavement. uh over time uh the pavement oxidizes due to just normal effects of weathering and you actually lose that uh lose that oil content at the surface. When you lose that oil content, you're you're essentially losing the glue that holds it together. Uh so you first start to lose the the the smaller particles, the sand and then after the you start losing the sand, then you actually start having the larger uh aggregates starting to pop out. So you actually lose some thickness over your road. Uh the other thing that happens with pavement when you start to have uh you know this uh the weathering it just gets brittle. Uh when when it when you have your full full oil content uh the pavement is more flexible. It it yields slightly under loads. Uh as it ages it gets more brittle and it's just it doesn't yield as much. So again, I mentioned that uh cracking in pavement is normal. Uh but what we don't want to happen is what's kind of illustrated in this picture. If you have a a crack, uh then we get uh a a rain event or a snow melt. Uh if that crack is is left unmaintained, it actually leads to uh increased water in the underlying aggregate base. And one thing that we know is when any material becomes super saturated, it loses its stability. So even even sand, which is uh thought of as one of the best building materials, when it becomes super saturated, turns into quicksand. Uh so when it when it's become saturated, it it then yields to the loads that drive over it. And so a lot of times when you see kind of a primary crack across your roadway and the secondary cracks, it's because uh some water has gotten into that underlying aggregate base uh and that that pavement above has yielded. Uh in the winter time the kind of the opposite things happens. Uh the water uh if it gets into the aggregate base uh when water freezes, it expands in volume. Uh and so that actually pushes up on the pavement. So, if you ever driven a a road that gets really rough in the wintertime, uh that's because of the tenting caused by this phenomenon. Uh and and this picture just shows kind of the progression. Uh if if we just let the pavement continue to deteriorate, uh it becomes more brittle. you have more uh secondary cracking around the primary crack and eventually you have this what we call alligator cracking or pattern cracking. Uh so again uh the purpose of this project is to do a strategic overlay or an overlay with strategic timing to really try to preserve the structure that's left out there. Uh the overlay adds structural strength and integrity. It's going to improve your ride. Uh, and it's going to help delay more expensive repairs in the future. Uh, so again, this project consists of patching the failed batuminous areas, uh, thoroughly cleaning and applying a t coat, and then constructing a batuminous overlay. And that overlay is 1.5 in compacted. So, it actually goes down a little bit thicker. Uh, and then when the, uh, compactors uh, roll it, it can compact. at 1.5 in. So again, we're the purpose add structural strength, improve your your ride, extend the service life, and try to achieve the lowest life cycle cost. Uh so this is just kind of a typical uh section of what is out there now. And so in general, the the elevation of the road is just going to raise uh 1.5 in. Uh this is also showing that uh if there's any uh areas on the shoulder where uh you know we kind of have a gap because now we're we're inch and a half up and maybe the shoulder's already a little bit low. Uh that area will be filled in with top soil uh to to shoulder that new pavement. Uh the only exception uh to this inch and a half up is when we run into concrete driveways. Uh concrete driveways are a little bit harder to match into. So, uh, if you have a concrete driveway, we do what's called a taper mill. Uh, we mill directly in front of the driveway and we mill a transition, usually about 30 ft on each end. Uh, so we can provide that new pavement and, uh, without having to affect a concrete driveway because a lot of times if we had a patch of concrete driveway, it' actually be way more in cost uh, than let's say the proposed assessment for this project. Okay. So, estimated project cost. These are the original estimates uh that you were also notified about for the March meeting. Uh there is some patching costs estimated at $37,400. Uh the the actual overlay improvement uh 366,080. And what the city's uh policy has been is to assess 50% of the cost of the overlay improvements to the benefiting properties. So with that, we uh actually did just recently open bids uh last week. Uh we opened six bids and we actually received some good news. Uh North Valley, who is right here in the industrial park uh just west of us, was a low bidder. And based on that, the bids came in about $26,000 uh under our estimate. So we we got really good bids. Uh the city assesses on a per unit assessment method. There are 50 benefiting properties identified. Excuse me. Uh and 50% of the uh estimated project cost yields an assessment amount of $3,660 per unit. uh that amount is uh generally uh if it's if the city moves forward with this project that'll be uh added to your taxes uh if you do kind of do nothing if you choose not to do nothing or you can pay it off before the assessment is certified to the county. Uh and also historically uh the city has lowered the assessments if the final project costs come in lower than the estimates. So right now uh as we go along in this process, our estimates become better, they become tighter. So now we have actual construction bids. Uh but those contractor bids are still based on estimated quantities. Sometimes we come in slightly above the contract amount. Sometimes we come in slightly below the contract amount. Uh sometimes we're out there and you know there's a loaded dump truck driving over an area. We can see the payment yielding. We think, "Oh boy, this this area is going to need a little bit extra strength." Uh so again uh everything right now is is still an estimate but generally uh the city council has considered the amounts uh in the fall of the year before they're certified to the property taxes and if possible they have lowered the assessments. Uh so then just to touch on schedule uh quickly uh we started this process in uh January with the feasibility report. Uh as I mentioned we just conducted the bid opening in June. Uh we're here tonight uh with at the assessment hearing and uh depending on the feedback that the um city council hears tonight, they'll make uh after this they'll make a decision whether or not to move forward with the project and award the contract assuming they award the contract. It usually takes a couple of weeks to get contracts in place. Uh so the earliest anything would happen would be uh right around 1st of July. Um but it's also uh at this point we haven't awarded the contract. So we don't have a firm schedule from the contractor. And if the the city council awards the contract that'll be our next step. Notify them that the contract has been awarded and then request a schedule. Generally what we do is we send out a mail letter uh to everybody after we have a pretty firm schedule just notifying you uh just in case you have you know a graduation party or or something like that that you that you need us to work around we try to accommodate that. Okay with that uh Mr. Mayor that's all I had in my presentation and maybe if you want to turn over to the city attorney for a few comments and then open it up to the the public. Mr. Ruby, I just wanted to Thank you. Sorry. I just wanted to uh let you know this, like Mr. Nelson said, this is the second this uh a public hearing, required public hearing. This is the assessment hearing. You did all should have all received notice in the mail notifying you and that's why you're here tonight. One thing that I wanted to emphasize here is that before this public hearing closes, if you wish to object to the assessment, in other words, preserve your right to to finalize an an appeal to the district court of that assessment amount uh approximately $3,660.80, you have to file a written objection before the close of this public hearing. If you do not file the objection before the close of this public hearing, then it's as if you waved it and the city can rely on that when deciding whether to award the contract and moving forward with this project with the timeline that Mr. Nelson just explained. With that, I will turn it back over to the the mayor and can open up the the public hearing portion of this. Perfect. And now I got my mic on. That's always helpful. I'd like to open up the public hearing. Um, so a public hearing for proposed assessment 2025 overlay road project. Again, uh, I'll read off by name, but please state your name, your address, um, as you come up. So, first up to speak is Glenn Carlson. Wrong signup. It is the attendance sheet. We got the wrong Let's do that. attorney right now. Is there anybody that would like to speak at the public forum? You're not obligated to do so. Uh Dave Ross 6060 189th length. I've been there 25 years. I remember when the road was replaced before and it was maybe a short period of time, two or three years, and they cut expansion joints in this brand new road. As far as I'm concerned, that road is fine except for the expansion joints. I think those should all be filled and then patch up the potholes if there is any. I haven't noticed any elephant cracking. I don't think that road's in that bad a shape. I think my neighbors agree, but that's and I'm not speaking about anybody else's roads, just 189th. I haven't been on Krypton or 194th, but I'm talking about my roads. And as far as I'm concerned, whoever cut those expansion joints did the damage to the roads. It's fine otherwise. When I drive down it, that's all I feel is those expansion joints. And if water's getting under that road, that's where it's getting in. I'm aons on this. So, I'm Bob Swanson. I'm 618, 189th plane. I'm the last one on tar before it goes to gravel. So, I'm the one who travels on that on that parcel of uh roadway the the furthest. I can tell you it's a moderately traveled roadway. It doesn't have a lot of big traffic. There's only residents that are there. So, in my opinion, as humble as it may be, um I think a couple scoops of hot patch would suffice. On each end of the street, there's one in front of my driveway, a pothole, and a pothole on the end of 66 and 189th. So, just a couple scoops of hot patch. If you want to, I'll run to Home Depot and get it myself. Uh but other than that uh I don't see anything wrong with that straight. Uh was it it is you can you can feel the the the expansion marks. Uh but as far as the smooth ride, not a problem. So I think that uh I' I'd pass on that. It's good for another 10 years. Thank you. My name is Kevin Bookie. I'm on uh 5770 187th Avenue. Uh you said Krypton Street is going to be redone. There's literally eight houses. It's a dead end. Nobody travels down this road but us homegoers. There's nothing wrong with this road. I I'm opposed to doing this and paying for this. So there's no need to do this on our road at all. Just clarification. So we're up there. You said you lived on what 87th and the road you talk about was Krypton. So I'm confused. Which isn't that um it turns into Krypton? We are the first house on 187. So technically it's 187th and then it circles around and it's Krypton. And you have our address completely wrong. So I'm not sure. I'm I'm lucky that we got this right the second time, but our address is not correct. You have an extra digit in our address. So, we're opposed to doing this. So, so, Mr. Mayor, if if I may. Yes. Um, and you know, I I think uh a lot of uh cities listen to their residents and try to try to listen to their residents, but then also try to do what's best for kind of the the neighborhood as a whole or the city as a whole. Um, and and one thing to think about is, yeah, I mean, I agree these roads aren't falling apart. Um, and that's why an overlay is still a recommended uh method or a recommended improvement at this time. So, letting the roads deteriorate further is an option, but keep in mind that if they need something more, so maybe I should back up. What we're proposing is not a full rebuild. It's just an inch and a half of payment on the top. And that inch and a half of the pavement on the top has uh has in the city of now then extended the life of the pavement by at least 10 years if not closer to 15 years on the other other roads where we've done this at. So, if if if for some reason the city doesn't move forward with this project, uh keep in mind that the next step is uh you know, more cracking, more potholes, and then at some point that pavement's going to be cracked so bad that you can't just construct an overlay over the top. You have to grind it all up and start over. That cost is going to be substantially more. So, um I mean Bob and I both work for other municipalities. I think the largest uh assessment that I've seen is 18,000. Uh but maybe a a more average range for these larger lots. Uh maybe 10 to 12,000. Um so I just want to provide that information both to the city council and to the residents. Uh okay. Is there anybody else that would like to speak at the open forum? Yeah. Yes. Let's let this gentleman go and then yes, I would request you go to the podium chat. Okay. Steve sites 194th. Wayne 194th. 194. Yep. 8833. Okay. So, when we start the meeting and the proposal, you said that these roads are expected to last us 25 years. So what happened to the city's planning to take care of this instead of assessing? I mean, you said it's 25 years is expected, right? So for I've lived there for 13 years. I haven't seen one thing of maintenance done. And I'm on the culde-sac is that's probably a picture I sent in two years ago. It's disgusting that maintenance wasn't done. And so I think the city should be covering more of this project than we are. And that's my that's my Yeah. Where our tax and money go is what I want. I paid a lot the last 13 years. Trust me. Okay. That's not Steve Anderson. Uh 60 51 189 plane. Um, one of my biggest concerns I I don't think the road needs it either. Um, some maintenance maybe uh gravel the the t the are there other ways to repair? I know they came through one time with gravel and oil. Um, and also there's only eight houses on our road that's being assessed, but there's I don't even know how many on the dirt road and another road connecting with two culdeacs and all of those people drive down our road to get to the black top so their car is not completely trashed with dirt. following the dirt road around to 66. So the travel the the road traffic on our road is probably three times more than it should be on just us homeowners. So So that's one of the I think if if anything the cost should be spread out to everyone that's actually using Okay. and maybe 189 up to 191 putting down and grading uh Chad H953 Lithium street. I think I'm the only one here from Lian Street. Um, so I have a question on the letter that was sent out that didn't state anything about a 10 10-year assessment on taxes. That's what I guess that's kind of the only reason I'm here. I was to me that letter was very confusing on payment how you know the end of December when and how um problem with the letter Bob your mic's not on the problem with the letter is a lot most of that information is required by statute so that's why we have this this hearing as well and why Shane has the presentation to let me Well, it's historically the city has has allowed people 10 years to pull. It's up to the city to determine that amount. It's also up to the city to determine amount of interest. And what we're trying to do is do something that is enough that makes the payments easier for people. The reason usually 10 years is used is because if we pulled the route to 20 years, the historic life of the road is 20 2020 to 25. And therefore, if we went longer, there's going to be people just finishing their assessment payments and all of a sudden we're talking about the next assessment. Yeah. I guess my point is the letter made it sound like it was either payable this December or next December, you know, and it's just that that's I I just read it basically. You have a you know the assessment amount I can't remember. was like, so I guess my 3,600, we don't need to go all political and everything is, you know, is is it going to get voted on a 10-year payment plan, assessment plan or two or I I I get it and there was something about interest payable if paid before if you right now I think that should have been in the presentation also. This is, you know, if you don't based on the number that we have, if you pay the end of this year, it's $3,600. If you wait till next year, it's x amount of dollars. If you roll it out over 10 over tax assessment, you're going to pay whatever percentage in interest. To me, that would be very helpful. Well, let let me try to clarify it and you can ask for if you wish to pay. Right now it's being proposed that the assessment would be spread out over 10 years auto and if you don't pay prepay a lump sum in the amount or what was it 33 36 360 80 80 you have the right once we figure out what the actual assessment amount is. It can't be raised more than that amount without going through this notice public hearings, but it could be reduced. And that was in Shane's presentation. Historically, they have lowered the assessment amount if the project costs are lower. And sometimes that can happen based on the quantities used because this is a per unit uh bid. And then if they and if that amount of $3,660.80 80 cents can be lowered. Well, then the city historically has has shared that with you and given you that lower amount. So, we don't know exactly how much at the end of the So, I guess my question is according to the ladder there is interest payable if you didn't how does that let me let me get there because it's right here. So, that's the proposed assessment amount 366.0.80 per property. It could possibly be lower depending on the actual construction cost. Can't be higher than that amount. It's proposed to be paid over time, typically 10 years. And the interest rate is typically 1.5 to two percentage points over what we borrow money on. And that's not required by law. I mean, that's required by law. The the statute we're operating under 429 gives the city the right to put the interest rate at any amount. Bonding statutes state that if we borrow money and I think we are proposing to borrow money for this to pay our part of this we have to be two percentage points above. So the if the bank says we'll loan you the money at just our number 3% we have to in integrate on the bonding side of course but when do you get a chance to pay we will give you a letter as Shane referenced in his presentation once we know the amount that we're actually going to assess and then you have 30 days to pay in a lump sum if you say it's $3,660 $60.80. If you don't want to pay interest, that's what it will be. If you don't have that money and you don't want to pay right up front, it's going to be certified onto your taxes and it's taken care of. And when you get your property tax statement from the county, there'll be a line item on there for that. Okay. One other question I have, I guess it's just evil Chad. Was this shelved? Say underneath the last mayor for election reasons. There's a lot of things that he was had kicked down kicked the can down the road. I was curious. I know. I'm just curious. Okay, that's all I had. This is a normal capital improvement project. Go ahead. Thank you to address Mr. H. Um every year we look at roads. Shane gives us a five and 10 12 year pro uh project review. Um we choose then what is the best roads? What what what roads do we need to do this year and he presented this for this year and that's why the roads are being done. Let's open it back up. Was there any more uh from the public uh hearing portion? I would like to speak any other residents. I'm not on the list. Ken Hansen 6149 189th Lane. And I agree with some of my neighbors. I don't think 189th is in that bad a shape. Not a professional, but um like it's been stated before, some of the cracks need filling, but I don't think it's worth this. our road is that bad. We could go another five years then we may be to this point and but I'm you know I don't know I don't think it needs it might need some crack filling here and there and like was mentioned before too we're not the only ones there's a lot more people benefiting because 189th turns into a dirt and goes around the 191st there's a lot more people benefiting from this than we are and most of the heavy traffic is not the eight houses that are on 189th. So the other traffic that's going down more of the private business construction type smaller businesses that have construction equipment. Um anyway, so I just wanted to say I don't think it's worth it. I think our road could go a few more years. So thank you. Thank you. Any more in the public hearing? Sorry, I forgot to say this again. Yes, please. Chad. H 18953 Lithium Street. I'm not opposed to it. I It's just my personal opinion. Just get it done. For lithium street. Or lithium street. Yeah. I think I'm the only one here that can I just to me it's just get it done and what's it going to cost in five years? Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Uh so Mr. Mayor, uh Council Member Rainville was just uh uh asking if we So basically what we try to do is lump all these projects together. Uh so multiple roads together so we get lower bid prices overall. But we could do individual roads, you know, do look at Lithium Street under one contract, look at 189th Lane under another contract, uh, and split it up. But, uh, what we found is we we actually receive much higher bid prices. There's additional mobilization. So, what we try to do or what we the city has done in the past is try to lump uh, similar type of projects together uh, get better bid prices. Okay, last call for anybody else on the public hearing. Right, sir. Please state your name. Ros 66 and 189th. I've noticed a lot of roads being repaired, replaced, and recovered around our area. I commend you for that. But, uh, are they all getting assessed, too? Is everybody getting assessed in this town that much? Yes, more. Okay. So the people down the dirt road at the end of 189th don't have to pay. Yeah, that's what I'm hearing. That's correct. Yep. That's not right. They're using the road as much as we are and they're going a lot faster than we are. We're on it for an eighth of a mile and they're on it a lot more. That's not right. On top of that, Mr. Mayor, and and and and I I I agree and I I I understand what you're saying. The tricky part on that is trying to determine uh one where the cutoff is because that road loops around. Uh so is it the next properties, you know, the two properties just west of the pavement? Is it four properties to the west of the pavement? Is it uh around the corner? What's the cut off? Is it a sliding scale? Uh what if some properties claim they never drive that way? Uh, and the other thing to to keep in mind, um, I mean, and I've heard I've been to a lot of these assessment hearings and, uh, you know, one thing that I've heard is the guy in the end should pay more because he has to use more of the road. Uh, the guy, you know, I'm I'm first. My driveway is only 50 feet away from the county road. I'm only using 50 feet of the road. This other guy's using 3,000 ft. Uh, he should pay more. There are a lot of things uh that are tough about assessment projects. Uh, and you know, the the per unit method that the city of NADA uses is in my opinion one of the fairest. Uh, you know, there's a there's a a front footage assessment method. That's not really popular either. Just because you have a more footage doesn't necessarily mean you use a road more. Um, but one one thing that is driving these cost up are the larger lots. I I live in the city of Andover. My lot's 75 ft wide and I had my road uh or the city repay my road did a similar type of project. My assessments about half of this but I have a 75 foot lot. Um and then the the the last thing that I want to just state is so the residents on the gravel portion uh if the road ever is improved I don't think we've done that. Uh, I've been working with the city for over 20 years and I don't think we've ever improved a gravel road to pavement, but when we've talked about it, we talked about 100% assessment. Uh, and there is actually a road that used to be paved that uh the, you know, it was too expensive to to reconstruct. Uh, and so that road went back to gravel. it was actually reclaimed and then uh a little bit gravel added onto it and I think they've uh inquired a few times and you know for them their assessments would be close to 20,000 and this was probably five or six years ago. Uh now it might be over 20,000. Um you know and this is just the method that the city of now then has had in place. We've had it in place for uh probably going on 20 years. uh you know and having this method helps keep the the general tax levy lower. They could uh any city could raise taxes and and pay for these roads 100%. Some cities around us do but this is the process that that now then has had in place for uh at least a couple decades. Well, you've heard multiple people say that the road is fine and we say where the cracks are that didn't need to be cut into that road should just be filled there. and then a little patchwork on the front and the rear end of it. We're good with that. That's all we want. We can wait 10 years to do this kind of project. That road is not that bad a shape. You know, ignoring the fact that there's 20 ton garbage trucks going there twice a week up and down these roads, right? Tearing it up more if if it is hitting those bumps, but it's still fine even with that. So, thank you. We say no. Okay. Any more from the public hearing? All right, we will close the public hearing. Did you have something? Nope. Okay. All right. We'll close the public hearing um and then uh open it up to the council uh for discussion. So it I would like to make one comment. So as uh Dave and multiple others said on 189th um that specific road was mentioned four times. Um so just be aware four times is what that come up. Is it possible you can go back to the slide with the sliding scale where the first 15 years are good doesn't have years on it but I think that's a really important piece of the entire presentation. Yeah, I just note on this particular slide, it doesn't have years in the bottom. Um, what it's got is time, but is that one year? Is it two years? I don't know that there's an exact science that says, hey, the road is going to make it 15 years or 20 years before we hit this point of I just want to point it out. really the point I'll call the diminishing returns where your cost of refinishing or resurfacing is very cheap in comparison if you wait that four years you're at 100%. So there's no exact science. So maybe 189th is not in this spot yet. Maybe it's sitting right here. What the city has done historically is paid a road assessor to come in and make that assessment to say when do they think the best point of redoing this road is? and we look at the recommendations of the engineers uh and professionals to do that. So I hear you but I also want you to understand that in two years and say it's good for five and in two years it hits this diminishing turn and then it it it's 10 times the cost. So I want everybody to be aware of that because that's a really important piece. Okay, I'll open up to the rest of the council for comments. Mr. Council member R. If there are no comments, I would uh move for the approval of resolution 2025 uh accepting the bid and awarding the contract for the 2025 overlay project. You're making a motion. Um ma'am, can we can can we do a quick discussion on that specifically uh before we disapprove? We have a second then we can discuss. You want to just second for discussion? Is that what you're recommending? That's fine. Okay. I will second for discussion. Um I haven't went on 189th and and looked at this. I'm assuming you have. Um so what would your recommendation? You just had four residents say 189th doesn't need to be done. Can we delay it one year? Can we delay it two years um and still have it in a position where we're not in that point of diminishing returns? Uh, Mr. Mayor, my recommendation would be if the city is interested in improving the road that we do it now. I mean, really, we're and and and overlay projects are probably the toughest projects for the public to uh understand or to get on board with because the whole idea is that we try to do them before the payment starts to fail. Mhm. If we do it before the payment starts to fail, we have less reflective cracking. Uh we have a longer life extension. Uh just overall a better product. We have less cracks to maintain. Uh once the pavement starts to to fail or starts to have uh more cracking, uh it we can still uh extend the life, but we just have more of that reflexive cracking or uh really they're uh these roads are probably uh they're probably still in that band where an overlay is the recommended practice because they don't have a lot of traffic. We have other roads that were constructed in the same time frame that have already we've already lost the window up. They're going to need something way more extensive. So, yes, you could this the city could delay uh the improvements to this road um or or you know choose not to award the project, but it's going to uh it's going to increase the like significantly increase the expenditure for the city to maintain its paved roads in the future. Instead of spending $400,000 this year, uh we'll probably uh you know, maybe it's a couple million dollars five or seven years from now to reclaim all these roads and pave them. We already have some of those roads that are in that situation where they missed the overlay. It's going to be a couple million dollars. That bubble is getting larger and larger. Um, so that I guess that would be my comment to the council is um, but they they are still serviceable. They're, you know, at the end of the day, the the city's uh, kind of duty is to continue to provide access to its residents via the public streets and then these roads are still definitely plenty serviceable. So, if the the decision was let's do nothing knowing that it's going to be uh a more a much more expensive repair in the future, that is something that that could happen. And one more. If we were to take, just throw this out there, we were to take 189th off this proposed assessment, would the process just go forward and they would uh reduce the amount by that amount of square footage or does it have to be rebid altogether? How would that work? I I don't know. That's what I'm asking. Yeah, Mr. Mayor. Uh yeah, if we wanted to change the scope, we've already uh put together construction plans. we bid this project. So really the best time to remove 189th lane would have been at the uh public improvement hearing the the meeting in March. Uh that's where we were soliciting uh feedback on whether or not we should go forward with the project and whether or not there's anything else we should consider. Sometimes people bring up drainage problems or you know this culvert's really bad. Sometimes it's a, you know, a really large culvert, maybe a 80 inch diameter culvert that has a substantial amount of cost. Um, but that would have been the best time to remove this this road from the project. At this time, uh, we could do it one of two ways. We could uh the city could award the contract and uh request the contractor to remove this project or remove this road from the project. Now, that would be up to their discretion, but I worked with North Valley quite a few times. My you know, it's a my if I had a if I was a betting man, I'd bet money saying they'd be willing to do it. Um, the other option would be to table uh table the decision if that's the direction the council wants to go. I could have those discussions with North Valley ahead of time. It's not it it would significantly change the cost of the project. So, I think the the public bidding process would still be valid. Um, and then, you know, we could we could reconsider at a future council meeting. Okay. I'm just looking for options. s we're we're in we're discussion now public comments proposed at this point. Mr. Mayor Council Ryan just please you know when we when we utilize our city staff to evaluate our roads and um use our um professional consultants and engineers to determine what road projects need to be done. I mean, we're talking about here's here's an here's an opportunity to take care of five neighborhoods that cover 52 houses and bundle them together into one project versus um if we you know if we probably did a similar project like this for just eight houses then now you're talking an assessment being considerably more um so I like the advantage of taking taking advantage of the economy of scale I also understand that yes there's that area on 189th in Wolfra and Yrium and 191st first where it is gravel on the majority of it and the one part of that's black top. Um and yeah, that's also a a big challenge of of do do the residents there want to want the the entire road black topped and uh and what the cost would be that I could just guess that would at least be a million bucks at least um to do to do that area. And so dividing that by 50 houses is rough math at least $20,000 per site per per house. So, I think here here's the advantage of uh getting these projects done, these these five neighborhoods, so that we can uh uh extend the life of those of those roads and um then uh put then they won't have to be rebuilt for a longer period of time, 15 to 20. Council member, do you have any any comments? Council member Swson, do you have any comments? I know you're listening. I know you can't vote, but you can certainly comment. Yes, thank you. Uh I I mean I agree a lot what you have you guys have said. I think it makes economic sense to do it now rather than kick the can down the road. I do get a lot of these concerns that residents bringing up. But I think in the long run this just makes the most sense, you know, if we don't do this now and do it in three years or um that's going to push whatever project we might do three years down. I think it makes a lot of sense just to get it done now. It makes a lot of sense just to get it done. All right. Could you go back to that slide one one more time? That that one with the machine turns in. I just got one more comment. Mr. Mayor, while he's doing that, one other thing you have to take into consideration is if we remove those eight residents, the costs to the other residents depending could go up. Is that correct? It could change the whole plan. Correct. Yeah, absolutely. So, I just wanted to go back to this and so as we've looked and there was some comments between me and Brian and husband or Rainville um every year they've done improvement projects. What we're learning learning from our study which we don't have a complete study is that if you don't do a certain amount every year, you actually start falling behind schedule. And that's the big concern. So if we don't go move forward with this, next year our costs are going to be higher and we need to do more just to keep the city maintained. So the concern is if we delay this, all it does is come home to effect. So I do understand from the resident's concern that they're saying it's not needed. But this is what exactly when we want to be working on the roads is this point right here before it diminishes. I I I can I I live on one of the roads that is diminished and they they can't do anything with it just because it didn't get caught in this cycle. So my concern is I I I did hear four people state that they did not want the road, but to sustain the roads and now that I'm concerned if we don't do it as part of our proposal as as we all I think we voted 50 in the March or April meeting to say we need to move forward with this. I didn't get any feedback at that point. Now it's very difficult to take commentary and state that we should change our perspective on it because now it's going to change the entire proposal. Other residents are going to go up. So that's my struggle, my internal struggle. Okay. I got no more comments on this. Is there any more comments? Councilman Rainbow, go ahead. Mayor, um for full disclosure, I'm I live on 191st and so um I'm on the dirt road. Um I I occasionally take your road if ours needs to be great if the grading needs to be done. Um but I would say out of 10 trips, maybe one trip I go down your road. Um but we also have the the garbage trucks. You can have up to three different garbage haulers. You've got the Amazon trucks. Um you've got the school buses. Um, I drive on other city streets and we all drive on streets that aren't the street we live on. Um, but we don't get assessed for the the the work that's done on those streets. Um, I I understand your concern. Um, but again, the economy of scale to do it now is the best time to do it. Um, we had I think four. One, two, there's four. Four on 189 out of eight. So, are the other eight residents are they willing to allow the four that were here to say pull this out of the project and three years down the road it could be we have to completely redo it and now you could be looking at a $10,000 assessment. Are the rest of the residents okay with that? I don't know. I've not heard any comment about that. But that's the the problem we have is if we don't do it now, it is going to cost more later and it'll cost more later because we need to do a a more in-depth project and nothing is going down in pricing. So just materials and labor are going to be additional plus a more detailed project. So thank you. Thank you. Is there any other comments from council member? And if no, then we will move to vote. No comments. So, will you restate your motion one more time? Um, councel, please. Accepting the bid and I had already seconded. So, we'll move to vote. It's going to be an interim vote here. All those in favor say I. I. Oppose. Motion's going to carry. Motion carries. Mr. Mayor. Council member Ryan. I'd like to make a motion to uh pass the resolution declaring the official intent of the city of Neland to reimburse certain expenditures from the proceedings of improvement bonds to be issued by the city. Okay. I will second your vote on that. Is there any discussion needed on that? And council member Swinson, you can comment on this also if you would like. No discussion. Are we ready to move to vote? Okay, let's move to vote. All those in favor say I. I. I. Opposed? Motion carries.