e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e to come to you to try to have the need for this variance this was a whole bunch of things going on with the unique part of this property there's the lake so that cuts off some of it and um there's pipelines on it you know two crude oil pipelines that cuts the other part off with bun of low ground there's an old Gravel Pit in the back so it ends up that by making this bigger than 2.5 or 2.8 it ends up implicating all of those type of issues that's all we got here with the subdivision for the west side of the road has been successfully res and so that's not part of the okay according to what the information I had here at uh there's two sheds you'd be able to keep according to our ordinance right no no I don't know if but I think just one just one one so the and that's when I on the map so it's thank you um so when you pull into the driveway that the house is there to the left just to the north of the driveway the shed Straight Ahead number two that if that shed stay that's the most usable shed on the you know as far as it's fig open it's standard whole bar all bar it's got doors from the south and it's got doors from it's on the west side so when you drive in west side of the building but that's not used and it's not those doors are not capable of like a garage and you come home to drive in into the doors number three was what built that's the newest building on the property number three I don't know the exact year I was in the military I remember coming back home and the shed was and that's the garage that's been used since for meetings then number four that was built prior to that it's Bar number five is old porn C very very Luso built those with oral ESO back in the day there's a similar horn crib to number five they duplicate um and then number one that in part is the Old Goat melting parlor and then number one is just a I'm guessing that was built in the 60s that's an old Tin Shed still pretty good I think all um that's number one and so number three is the garage my understanding decisions but in discussions when we were setting up the subdivision that I think our discussions were that number three was home I mean there be that there was good basis for variance on that um I think there's a good Bas basis for variance on all of them but I understand difference the number is it's older it's an older building it's got a relatively good Ro on it my mother put a metal Ro on it and it's got the old corns on each side for year corn and then the midle is parking with that so number three very much would like to keep that because that is garage for the house there isn't thear what what's your plans on number four then what you going to do move that then or that's a pool building you say we can't get a variance it have to be moved if it can be moved um it's your standard pole barn it's got a sliding door to the South and then it's got a on both the North East and the East Side North East the east side it's got you know service doors that's what is that everything on that in that area was for outside for arena for my sister okay and just to be clear there are no new structures going on law one what's that there's no new structures going into law one yeah and we did to bring the house into compliance did construct a mound system so there is a mound system it would be you look at number three to the west of it is mountain system outside of any ordinance issues There's no practical Place put building on and the reason this building site is here on both sides you've driven by there we always call it the Sand Ridge there's a very distinct abrupt bridge to the West that kept the wind from blowing and so that's back in the day that's what they the house was not original construction there my understanding somewhere up by Honeywell to the north it was a house there and it got moved in part of my parents find and it's been added on a number of times nothing so no no intent to build on on and I understand young people and their desire to build houses I can see under the current world conditions might be living in this house very long okay well thank you Gary for the information you gave us good any other question uh did I ask for if the mail's been okay okay what about this one they got down for a variant so the exhibit that you're pointing to is the one that's on the screen right now and that was the original exhibit that went along with the final plat approval before and was intended to be inserted in the development agreement so that was the that was the one that was contemplated as potentially might be okay if there was a variance for that one back at that time so in other words we can give a variance for um that this was just for historical purposes that exhibit in terms of what was discussed back when FL came through but there was no decision made at that time and no variance applied for they they didn't apply for the variance thing no not then in other words they are they playing now they they they have applied for variances now from um total number of accessory structures total square footage of accessory structures setbacks to the shared lot line between lot one and two and setbacks from the center line of 214th to the various structures that would be too close okay you is there any questions that planning is zoning to have a Miss I have a couple of comments and I sympathize with the nostalgic part of keeping the B buildings the way they are um I I see one and well five mainly as an agricultural use typically you it's a corn crib you typically would use it as such you wouldn't you want store stuff in it typically um and then four and one have been primarily put up as housing for Animals the problem with the keeping of all of these is that one obviously it goes over the square footage but on a 2.8 acre lot they're not going to be able to have an animal like there's no reason to keep all these buildings because you can't legally keep an animal there um goats sheep chickens that kind of stuff you could but nothing larger than that because of the square because of the acreage to that lot so I'm I'm I'm really struggling to say yes to all these buildings because their main purposes have other reasons than just storage but going to put put these two lots together they my understanding is that's probably the worst idea we could do for for them if that's really what it comes down to and that's what they want to do the understanding is that they'll have to demolish that house in order to build a new house that's the only thing they have left if we combine these two lots Am I Wrong oh that's correct you only allow one house for a lot yeah you've been investing a lot yeah exactly why would it it seems so silly when you can they can clearly make some money out of this if they needed to to sell it but the problem is is that I don't see some of these sheds as being purposeful for a 2.8 acre lot under unfortunately I don't and we have to because we have to but we're farming all of these copies for our neighbors to be able to of their animals keep in the city and can we move them I mean can we move them so they're off the property line so you still get to keep these buildings I understand I've been in your same spot I truly have ched for one of them and said the building no I know I hear you my entire my mom and dad's entire property is round post spring I understand I get this I know the struggle you're working with but I also look at the 2.8 acre of this home that's lot the purpose of all these buildings is just not conducive to a 2.8 acre lot you can't house animals in these and if you could move them to a different P parcel they would be usable Mr chair they're being used now for things though right so they are being used I didn't mean that W I'm saying that they are not purposeful for a 2.2 lot once they keep it right well and that's that's the whole thing right is it works as long as you have other property if you hold that parcel on its own it doesn't make sense and it depends what you do with it if we approve this and you sell it to someone who doesn't have that access yeah but also by allowing all these buildings to remain we're setting a precedence that everybody in the city can come in and build six more buildings to their property well they're ex not true it's a variance it would be a variance and then how are we going to deny that um the same circumstances they're bringing I I guess I would it it all depends on the circumstances that's why they're asking Burber I understand I'm having a very hard time with all of the buildings because they knew when they did this plat that there were going to be buildings that had to come down because of the property lines they knew that wasn't a mystery well them specifically they probably it didn't matter to them at that probably speak up sorry I have a s it didn't they probably didn't have a say in it when it was done right if we originally to so that's why they're asking for the variance nowy excited to be able and I don't Pur see things going down so it's going to just get tougher hate that word I hate it do we have any more questions here in the planning being then we'll close the public hearing did we ask for comments from the public I think is there anybody in public that has any comments yes come up give your name and your address please I uh live in El River but I just bought the lot right across the road from them so and I mean when we were looking at stuff kind of going back to that historical nature Gary was saying I mean that was what we fell in love with was the charm of all these buildings so just that it would be a shame to see them come down and where it is something that they're using you know for their livelihood and not of necessity it would be yeah disappointing to see them have to come down when you know talking and speaking with the Leos and knowing that you know they're using them and they're just they've been in this community for decades their families have been so it's not like they're trying to do anything to get ahead or anything sneaky to build more sheds or have anything more on their land it's just them trying to continue doing what they've been doing so it's thank you anybody else Jean Leo I live at 21355 nowland Boulevard so I live to the well East uh the map's not go doesn't go far enough but I use that new gravel driveway there oh and so one win for the city is getting rid of my flag because currently my lot is a flag lot and that will be done once this plat is recorded I'll own the acres to the south of that new Gravel Road and I'll just speak in favor of the variance um I with respect I I would disagree that this is setting a precedent that every person that wants to build sheds would have the same right to these are pre-existing sheds and so I guess there could be some precedent setting for other people that have pre-existing historical buildings but I don't think that would be precedent setting for people who wanted to um construct new sheds in excess of those limits now then is a agricultural um city as my brother Gary pointed out you'll see in very developed areas including Elk River um where um historical homesteads farmsteads were left in place that are completely different than the surrounding residential neighborhoods so I don't think anybody would notice that these sheds are left they would certainly notice if they were torn down because they are part of now then they've been there for um some of them approaching a 100 years so that's all I have to say thank you anybody else prob like make you know I ask the planning is zing you got any more questions or C here what's the status of lot two right now it's part of the the L you know the trust property but there's a new road that goes in we call it theit Road and the go to Dennis on finalization of the subdivision and like Jean said the property s so that lot is set up in the subdivision as a separate lot and then north of the the new road there's an out lot which is entally Dennis wanted that because that's the best gear place again I'm going to ask if there's any the crowd has anything that they'd like to present this time if not the planning is zoning do you have anything else if not we'll close the public hearing now we'll act upon it and again I would I have no findings of fact in your packet for this one so I would ask you to provide direction to me on what you would like me to bring back next month for finding fact Mr chair yes sir yeah so I think the uh there would be only prent set for historic buildings like Gary mention so I think there may be room for allowing the buildings to be kept there and seeing that they're using agricultural we got uh even if you can't fit more animals they don't need they're putting hay in there so that's an agriculture use and I think with modern farming it a lot of families have trouble with the they're passing on their Estates with the high cost of land now that it's might be common for people to rent land when they're starting off army they need to still need a bunch of buildings on their own property to do all their story could be precedent for keeping this anybody else have any thing to say here I understand with for the leic go coming from I've been around here good many many years been able to go by the place and I enjoy watching these old these older buildings and stuff and what they have there I knew their mother and father real well and uh the only problem I have that we have an ordinance and with our ordinance it stipulates what the size of buildings can be on these lots and we have to be very careful if we allow a variance that does meet our ordinance we could be in a lot of trouble because down the road somebody else say well the Leo's got it why can't we and at that point we can't do anything about it so I think we have to be very careful in uh what we allow because of this uh I I know what they're after I know they they Farm it I know denn's farming the Land There along with Cory there and I realize where they're coming from but uh uh again I don't know what to recommend here this all we close the public hearing go on the discussion already Clos it she wants some information I don't know what what we can go Mr chair yes I guess I be interested if if we could ask the City attorney what what we what what precedent we would be setting I think it's easy to say that you know if someone was on a two and a half acre lot and they wanted to build three large buildings we could easily say no but if there's an existing property and they want to subdivide and create this again would we be able to deny that or are we opening ourselves up for someone being able to you know do a two and a half AC lot that's all buildings you know is this setting that precedent Mr chair yes commission how often do you think that would happen I don't think it's often you know I just I don't but um and I just like I mean it is a variance for a reason right they're Notting the ordinances so they're asking for an exception and I think that you know yeah you're right we need to look at it carefully but I think we also can recommend I don't know I think that in this particular case I um I think it's worth it the that shed five on that boundary line that I mean that boundary line might I don't know handle something like that with it being divid divided in half although to their point they're G to own both Parcels so I don't know what kind of agreement you go with you know agreen to do that Mr chair yes I would suggest that if you are inclined to direct me to prepare findings effect for approval of these that you do um shed number five that it either needs to be removed or the lot line needs to be moved okay because it's even if their intent is to ultimately own both of these there are two separate Parcels that can be separately from the truste that's I think that's reasonable any more well ultimately I would be looking for some sort of direction from the Planning Commission so that I can bring you back um and have some not looking for a decision tonight but more of an inkling of kind of collectively thinking so I can appropriately draft that ideally if we could get all get close to all setbacks why would there be an issue with all the buildings staying so there's there's an issue with number four being is it is it on the setback or is it too close to the center line of the road which is it four um five and three are too close to the center line of the road three is three yeah to be 120 ft off oh for good good sakes there's not enough room in the property okay so obviously five is an issue you cannot have a building on two Parcels it just doesn't work trust me it's not a good idea um so either the lot line has to be moved or the building has to be removed so four and five were dealt with and a variance for three and I'm fine with one two and three they are all in a spot that seems to be useful they seem to be you know mature trees are around them they are they are there it's four and five that are major questions because they're closest to what is going to become easements uh property movements so property line is a huge problem you can't have a building on a property line so it has to be on one or the other it just has to um and four it's so close that it's just I don't even know what to do TOA I really don't is for the white barns with the gamble no I think oh that's the that's five that's five yeah okay yeah number four that's the red and white building yeah the red and white building the newest building right that yeah this one so this is four this and then this is one right I think it's number four is about 25 feet 25t from the edge of the of the gravel um it is the RightWay itself is of course it's closer to the RightWay itself so if the road ever needed to be improved you know construction equipment could be right in there and it's in the drainage and utility easen as well and a lot of times we would use that for drainage and utilities as well as construction with roads so um if the Planning Commission and Council were inclined to approve a variance for that we would be likely recommending an encroachment agreement associated with that is there a drainage and uh utility easement on both sides of this road yes there always is yeah I just not always do you use them to be clear we're talking about um now than Boulevard not not the future Road right no we're talking the the future road yeah okay so could that be Road it can't be moved it can't be moved no they've already installed the road and that would again affect all of their um estate agreements so okay that's why six is gone because road is literally right there right and the drainage goes to the Sun doesn't it's impossible so could the uh variance be contingent upon the if the road was built that it would be the building would be removed the road is buil or if it's to City standard yes you could put whatever conditions you would want you know experience yeah some point in the future the road will become right or it's slated to become a city road if more development happens but currently there's only one house on the you call it the the Sand Road or the dirt road Gravel Pit Road there's only one house being accessed currently on that right because as soon as they built another one that would Tri trigger the pavement right it's two isn't it I think it's three to so they have to build two more or they could build two more yeah the current one isn't the current one is never going to be on that rope right well but but um there's two other Lots one block two and and lot two block one the lot one is is the driveways coming off to nowan buide not onto the dirt road all lot a and ol B are developed the road has to be paved they won't they can't be they're Outlets yeah but if they if they come back for a yes for a future if they can they can prove that they can build there yeah yeah if they do that the RO would be paved at that point we could uh have them remove the building condition if the road has to be constructed to City standards then the building has to be moved or demolition yeah that would be we still have to see yeah it's done be really close to the building otherwise City standard problem is number five I know it's not it's a corn crib I know how they're built moving it is not an awesome idea lot needs a move for that that's where you would want to move the lot line it's I know it's a big ass but you want to take down the building because it's probably not going to move very easy because they're built so different than our current standards is there any way to say it those who Lo W ever left mine ownership than the building would have be remove not really because variances will run with the land yeah and the the building itself is on the property line so there is no way to say who owns the building once it's on a property line you have to it has to be within the the means of the property that's the biggest tricky part and you don't want to be in that battle trust me have enough to work with I think so so um unless I hear otherwise from the commission right now I will draft findings related to um a recommendation of approval of all of the variances um on sort of the basis that these are historical buildings to now then um important part of the fabric of the Agricultural character of the community to try to draw out a difference between this and other requests they do think you'll have one coming in pretty soon um and then include some conditions of approval in there related to the lot line needing to be moved so that or number five being moved when of the two um to address that um issue with that building crossing over the lot lines uh a condition related to encroachment agreements for for four building four and maybe building five I need to right it seems to be right on the E line so I'm not sure if it's crossing over or not at this point and then um a condition related to if the road is constructed to a city standard that the city would be accepting that um building four would have to be removed does this have to be an formal motion no it doesn't have to be I'm just looking kind of around the room and that's what I will draft and bring to you next month and then you can look at it and tweak the conditions or the findings she got to look for the right numbers and stuff for us yeah are you all okay with that then she brings us through the next meeting sounds good yeah yeah okay hope that covers it when the next meeting uh should be the 4th Tuesday of March March oh yeah that we the public hearing we were just acting on no right okay yeah so that's takes care of that then thank you uh the next thing we're going to open the next public hearing is for intern use permit for Tony Howard and then we'll ask our our planner here to present what she has thank you um the Howard family has applied for an interim use permit for home occupation for original hocky mom brownies a copy of their site plan survey is in your packet there currently is not a house on the site they're proposing to um build a home as well as a large building for their commercial Bakery on this property they would share the same driveway going out to the road um they've identified a couple of subject sites for this this property um the difficult part of this application is that while if everything was constructed it appears that it would likely meet ordinance requirements or could um at this point there isn't a house there so it's it's challenging when there isn't a house because um one your ordinances would require that you can't build an accessory structure until you have a sensal structure but then even if you think through the home occupation conditions they all tie back to their being a home there so well a lot of them do you know items such as that um the home occupation needs to be carried on by one or more members of the owner's family who s reside in the dwelling unit for example so there's conditions like that that in because it's a home occupation if there isn't a home the conditions start to not make a lot of sense so um a couple I I drafted the findings as a recommendation of denial because they're isn't a home an alternative that I contemplated was that it could have been drafted as approval with the condition that the home be built first um I didn't choose to do that because um and I'm sure Mr Howard will like to talk to you guys but um they're Desiring to pull the building permits for both of them but then focus on the accessory building and what would be very challenging for us is in talking with the building official if both permits are pulled at the same time even once the accessory structure is done he won't have a reason to not issue a certificate of occupancy and then you're relying [Music] upon um beliefs that the home will end up being constructed in a reasonable time frame so and it is I'm not saying that they would do this but it is possible that that home would not be constructed or not in a very timely manner so with that I'll happy to answer any questions and okay at this time I'll ask the applicant if they have anything to add to this sure I know you're unhappy I'm I'm all good um you know my name's Tony Howard uh we live currently at 1944 134th Lane in Andover hav sorry I shouldn't be nervous I used to be on the Anover city council so um so this all came about when we bought the property and we've been looking for something that we can build for a family family business original hockey mom brownies literally started as a family business from nothing 10 years ago and currently it's my son and my wife wife's business and we're looking to find a home not just for one or two years or three years or five years this is really we're building a legacy for our kids okay a long-term vision for us and that's what we want to do right my wife and I so we chose now then uh we we search for piece of property and this is um I don't know if you know anything about it it's 31 Acres it used to be a borrow pit um so is there a lot of challenges you bet uh I used to be in construction for many years so I know those challenges and used to be on the Anover city council so I know the challenges of trying to get it approved uh through the the now then uh city council and I guess thank you for letting me speak tonight um I know it's not easy and I know I I totally understand what Cindy's coming from is it is it is the house going to be built um I have to we as a family have to spend a pretty substantial amount of money just to get that piece of the dirt squared away for both of those properties okay so there is a an investment there to know that that house is is going to be built um for me uh I'm doing this for my wife because she's always endorsed my businesses I've been in business for since I was 22 so she's always been part of my group part of my um somebody that really endorsed what I'm doing well we're not spring chickens now right and this is her part she uh she loves this business and my son uh we love it with a passion so it was this is this way she can continue to feed her Passion by just being able to walk down to her business and cook brownies um it's crazy I mean um I called it a silly I said more than that a silly little bit Brown business we started with a food truck 10 years later we have three booths at US Bank Stadium with huntingfield maruchi and do a ton of corporate stuff so is the passion there you bet and we're building this Legacy for our son and our daughter so they can continue what they love to do now do we that's a box eler CL in here do we um you know do we meet every every T Andross every eye or whatever right dot every I Andross every te no we don't meet it because the house isn't Built My I mean I sent you kind of an outline of what I thought the timetable was to move it forward um and so you kind of feel comfortable with what I'm proposing you know it's um is it going to be a challenge yes part of the reason we need the bakery is the business where we're at now that we're subcontracting a lease from is there probably going to be sold so now we don't have a bakery so that's our challenge now long-term thinking do we want to go out and lease a space for three to five years or do we want to try to build something now for the future because I to be really honest if we have to go out and Lease something three to five years this is out of my wife's and our plan I think it takes I really think this takes it out of the picture for us so do the only thing really the only thing we don't meet is that is that we don't have a house but my intent on that timeline I gave you is to our time line is like mid August right we're going to have this the bakery done but we're going to have the driveways in we're going to have both we're going to have the house foundation done so when I physically have the time to to do the house then I will attack it and these are not these are not um tiny houses tiny things to do takes time to build quality and that's what I'm looking to do is build something quality in your city um don't want to Short change it uh totally not because like I said this is something I'm looking towards the future for long term eventually guess what my son and his future wife will be moving into that house and we'll be in retirement age so it's something that our family will be on this proper for a long time really thank you we just can't keep going on I know I'm sorry I that's me I'm trying to plead my case chair yes um Mr Howard one quick question looking at the time frame that you handed out tonight um I'm assuming green is progress on the bakery look at it and yes yeah the green is the green is the bakery the red is the house okay and the blue is kind of kind of like the bullet timeline the one I'm not clear on then is under this timeline you have the house move in ready July 1st 2026 but when would the bakery be uh is that the July 10th to August 10th of this year the bakery yeah would be uh the August 10th would be the finish of the bakery okay thank you yep okay as the clerk mailed all the mailings out in the advertisement about this okay that's takeen care of okay uh does the pz have any questions they'd like to ask the uh applicant here yes go ahead I got a question for the planers does this require I yes it does for a home occupation the delayed till the house is complete any other questions does B zoing have yeah yes commission my question is going to be directed directly at the applicant um why didn't you want to seek out separate property for the commercial business for your own purchase because I want to be able to drop 65 years old my only concerned yeah my only concern was the only city that would allow for us to put building that would be 31 ACR but even that still split [Music] specifically plan to have the business for a number of years to come and that's exensive school okay thank you is there any other questions that the planning zoning has to ask applicant here yes go ahead J um possible have like a small apartment in the PO building while you're building we uh we attempted to do uh but because of the the three uses okay that it was fire code wise it was imposs that's kind of like the first thing we were going to do so if I may interject um we've been working on this for months um and talking with the building official as well trying to sort through what some of those options might look like sorry I think I with the build offici by the way I love your brownies we used to find your trap all the time first game all my kids played hockey so and I think um commissioner huo started to ask me a question about whether there was a way to have the interim use permit Maybe wait or something until it was constructed but I there wasn't really a way to do that because their whole purpose was they need to find that space to move into and so that's why they were trying to do that in the front end so um is it possible to pull it if the house isn't occupied within a certain time frame like a time frame I will you that expires at yeah theoretically we could add that as a condition um the Practical reality of it is that it is a at that point if the house wasn't built it would be a huge quote un SM Nightmare and it would be in terms of if the city wanted to enforce that right um and so it would be expensive to financial undertaking for the city yes okay is there anything else the from the planning is zing if not we'll open up to we'll open up to the public anybody in public want to address it go ahead give your name and address um my name is Skip Cornell we live at 7363 7263 181st Avenue so we're kind of just east of Tony yeah over the hill and um I I feel uh I owe Tony something we did a really stupid thing on his lot we took motorcycles my son-in-law is and drove around he probably should have shot us just for that so that alone I feel like I owe Tony but I just had a couple questions and and one of them was I was curious why this wasn't looked into before the lot was bought and I mean this is a pretty big deal dropping a manufacturing house on a lot I wonder why it wasn't looked into first but that's not important it's something I was curious about that we're already past that yeah yeah we were looking through barion right and that would made it okay but then it got to try to get a two-hour fire rating between all three uses got it so then we had to kind of switch things and now the police part is coming in is that like an Adu is that the other term they use or something no different so that was that's kind of where kind of just comes all together yeah to have this one thing if we would have took took the direction and just did the house and did this yes that would have been no problem but then this happen yeah wow that's okay let's pass but um just some couple things here that nothing big but so my concern is that we live just over the hill and being in refrigeration I've worked on a lot of bakeries everything and an exhaust and makeup air and of course one thing comes to mind I don't know where your hours are going to be but most bakeries are out at you know 2: in the morning starting baking you're you're not like that okay so that's okay and okay you're not like regular B relax all right you're you're late late late and the other thing is I was wondering you know in five years it doesn't sound like they're going to change but being we're just over the hill you know we want to protect our blot and then because of it's a commercial rating I have no idea how it affects our value it's commercial rated right it's that's what it'll be some kind of commercial rating and that because it's a business running there or no how does that work actually that's not a commercial area that we'd have to change our zoning and make it commercial got it okay so if there is something like that going on and five years down the road you know they changed their mind now we want to make uh uh Chinese you know food with curry powder or something is is the manufacturing do they have to check with you before they change their whole manufacturing for odors and everything or and again I'm just trying to think about our lot and if something really weird happens what'll happen to the value of our house you know I don't know Mr chair may I answer yes um so interim use permits for home occupations and they don't run with the land so somebody else wouldn't be able to buy it and keep using it necessarily oh but they so they do have termination Clauses that are built into iups those termination Clauses are whatever the city would put in the iup so it could be that um a lot of times we'll put a ter I'm not saying what we would do here but as an example A lot of times we'll put a termination Clause of when the property sells the iup goes away or um a lot of them we will give the iup for a certain amount of time and then once that time frame is going up could still apply to amend it and extend that time frame but that gives the city a chance to look at those conditions and see are those conditions mitigating for any impacts do we need to adjust those conditions so that's how that works but yes there I mean once you construct a fairly large building there you know that will have value to it and I would anticipate that people would be interested in trying to maintain some commercial use of that so one of the thought process about where it is ised conc oh it's not aild it's [Music] engine yeah yeah I won't ride my motorcycle so that was my my whole right yeah yeah okay well the other thing I was just gonna and I don't think this is a problem but I have ped the plans up of what the buildings supposed to look like not that so doesn't sound like it'll really devalue our house that you got a commercial rating I don't nothing about that but that should be okay okay the other thing is I don't know they have utila set fans or that's a noisy fan or if they've got a up Blast how much CFM are you put pulling out of this place you know how there all big fans oh so there no CFM harly okay all right and then there won't be a lot of trucks it's not like a big industry okay that's all I got go there go there come back that was concern property like you you were at you have oh really low key yeah yeah it's not pluming up like like a Chinese restaurant yeah thank you okay that's all is there anybody else audience right like the address of I've got one more question for the applicant um you talk about three uses the obviously the bakery the residential house what was the third thing uh it was the the garage just the house over the garage that fire rating that went from that garage to gotcha okay thank you we have any more questions I noticed you had spot in there where you had two driveways in there no county is not very open to comment early on in the process I talked to no County and they said if I shut the one off I can put the one where I'm at the reason the reason I wanted to move that is for Public Safety besides the safety of people coming out of our property because now it's not a blind spot for us as as we come out with our cars and such and and people can see that before once there's a little rise on now then Boulevard if you're familiar with the property that Red Barn had a dried there red and white barn and it got to be uh I about traffic Hazard believe it or not um if we would have left that driveway there so I thought they're all good with moving it there I st it out position had the last year look at that so you going to end up with this one driveway then there'll be one driveway that has a fence on way to the north as far as our physical uh for a house and a bakery will be the one to the Sou dway ran through it we just had a discuss other ones seems to be a big variation who you talk to what's going on that was the ear clarify for us there's only there's only one driveway shown to the both building to the both um there's one uh this isn't the whole parcel there's another 12 acres to the north yeah it has another Drive oh so but that's not going to access a home no okay so the only driveway that's coming in that's being used for the and the construction the building is here exactly okay yeah I know there's there's multiple entrances along the road there for whatever reason okay okay we have more discussions here in yeah I gu Mr chair um any way to do an escrow or something like that that would basically guarantee residence with certain period of time so I have a small have a small in on this one when we constructed our our residence we wanted to simultaneous build our Pole Barn at the same time and the city would not allow us so we had to um apply for our house and then after our house was under construction then we could apply for our building we couldn't do it simultaneously they wouldn't let us that was nine years Bill did they require you to be a certain completion done with your home you're really asking that question right now I've been sitting here I've been sitting here stirring my brain trying to figure out if there was a requirement on completion but we did the same thing we didn't have a home we needed an accessory building and we couldn't do an accessory building at the same time of this a home permit because we didn't have a home we had to have the home under construction before we could apply for the accessory building that's how they that's how they ran it with us you could probably up right pardon me you could probably look it up when you applied for both permits I know I probably could look it up that's a big Bo big box have record of or oh nine years ago I don't know they might not be how organized are you mine's about a 2 by two by two box want to go through some paper first is there any more questions if there's no more questions we'll end the public hearing so public hearing goes now we'll what we're do I think we got recommendation from our from our planner here that we deny this this time because of uh not even having a home built so somebody wants to be brave they can make a motion another another option is that you that I thought about doing was a um recommendation for approval with a condition that the home be built first that was another way of kind of potentially tackling that topic regardless that didn't meet their goals so it didn't meet ours either we were working with a Time strange as well but that's what had to happen Mr chair and and obviously the they're building both at the same time they're just going to finish one I mean there's no they are technically starting a home right I mean they're digging a foundation they're getting all that done um there's nothing I mean like you were saying you didn't have you had to start both no I had had to be in progress on we the other one we applied for the home and all that that went with that and it had to be under construction before we could apply for apply for I would think I would think they had a percentage had to have percentage I have to go back and look I was on the planing only the time but I I don't recall there were so many things going on since then yeah you were on it then yeah sounds like there was a precedent set though there was something but to me do it again I'm going to be brave I'm make a motion we deny it for the simple reasons that they don't have a house that they're living in there somebody basically what they're asking for is hey can we build a commercial building without a house that's right that's needs to be onal lot I have agree that's right do we have a second of that motion I second that motion okay do we have any further discussion on that motion see and none we'll call for the vote all in favor say I I I hi was there was all eyes no no say say all n they were okay we'll call for the vote Harold jur commissioner juron how's your vote think we're we're going to have to somebody's going to have to come forward here be a little bit more specific because our ordinance is specific say I have built several houses over I'm not a carpenter or whatever but the last house I built I got for a loose door knob the only thing that I had problems with I thought that was pretty good gu to build the house not being okay commissioner Jus what's your vote Yes or no I think we got a vote no till we resol okay Comm Lewis what's your vote Yes yes what's your commiss fill with your no no who knows my my vote is yes not to have or rather no not to have it commissioner B we're switching our our votes around you voted I yeah so okay okay deny then okay deny deny or approve deny approval I said we got to deny solve that issue that's plain enough and she she he voted no and I voted yes and commiss B to deny and I will deny okay so we and I would vote to to not deny to approve the cup and and or iup um one two three four and I think we need some more discussion because I mean for for instance I feel like they're applying for a build building permit that building permit indicates a home and this other structure there's plans to get everything done we're just essentially not believing them that they're going to actually do those things so they're applying for a permit to right I'm assuming that's how that works the building permit is going to require is for a home and another structure oh there there would be two separate there be two separate um that parts of technicality but the ordinance says you can't have a okay what what was the total vote did you get that it's four to three then one two three four four and three against was a third yes yeah there's just two there's only two yes I think it was 52 52 okay yeah okay so it's denied well it's recommended to the council to the and city council will make the final decision on it okay the next thing is on theenda is the ordinance Amendment home occupation fin he has do they come to the city council the next city council meeting yeah they come to next city council March 11 second Tuesday we open the public hearing yep so we obviously talked about this home occupation ordinance last month so coming back to tonight with um this was a continuance from last month okay just clarifying continu and so this is adding back in language that you talked about last SL and I'm happy to go through in whatever detail that you would like or if you would like to just pick which parts you'd like to talk I might screenline it we got towards the end there didn't we wait well there was a couple of things that we've had to go back on uh one we skipped over help me the attached garage or something or the acreage or size where we at one of them was something um oh that yes it was the 25% of the area the residents right and then this the acreage or something to the residents because that's just kind of I think we took the um acreage out well it says five now the number is three under C what page are you on be page three I don't know it say on the top like page 91 or 99 that bottom all these numbers hey don't yeah all right fine I thought we were fine with number so if you go on page 97 I remember that we were fine with um the use of the dwelling being the residential use that kind of information but it was the percent that you were trying to figure out and then if to include or not include the attached Dr so yeah so my notes were that you ended up being um fine with including the percentage e e e e e e e e e but you'll see and what they did was now and then come by and if you had your road fixed or whatever or and your place your parcel was plotted they wanted you to sign off on that and when they fixed our ruled I told him I'm not signing off on it but I don't have a small par and I was right don't have to sign off on it long as you had more than a requirement so and then another thing is and a lot of our Parcels in now then are not full 40s our section lines are off all the way from the river in the NOA up this way some of them are off as much as 8 to 10 feet okay wherever that road is that's where you're going to end up with so you don't have what you call a 240 our our county father said we're going to change this going to make it right and you went out decided to measure up where it was whoops we got to move all of our roads over so you know what happened to that theory that went out the window years ago but that's the truth you look at a lot of I think I've got 140 and 7t longer on one end than the other end and they're supposed to be even 40s you know but when they measured them they didn't do a good job so 180 first that line it's even off between Ramsey and so you get right down to the thing it's kind of an interesting deal and then we come up with it this guy's got to have five acres to do this but really we're kind of at the mercy of what some of our forefathers did do was with with our lot lines you know if far as section lines and stuff like that they're off quite a bit so it makes a difference because I've been I go through the map every now and then looking at it and see who's got what and you you'll notice it some people told you they had maybe 50 acres or 60 Acres why did they come up with such odd things and that's why why it this okay but they'll try to steal what they can especially now then real good at that try to steal as much land as you could without ever paying for com to you got your load fixed they PID for all gos but if it's a city road you had to pay for the road on top of the fact you stoen your land so that's the way it works so a lot of interesting things there have bearing on what we're trying to do here right now so because if you got 4.9 Acres that's as good 5 Acres as possible but is it to the center of the road or isn't it you know but the meas is from the center of the road there's actually nothing we do about that so we could we there's nothing we can do about what Mr jenson's talking about but going back to the question of that number three on the top of page 99 we can delete that from here okay um until and unless you change the ordinance in that other location that's kind of governing who can apply for a cup section 11101 yep then they still would need five acres and we can tackle that after we're done here so You' like we can delete that one let's remove that one for now I like what number six says no longer are we you know saying there's a limited number but we can specify a number based on each based on each business basically and then removing of 12 that's fine or changing number 12 everything I'm fine with all the way to page 101 before we want to move on to there do anyone else have anything else that they'd like to talk about and then under on page 101 letter A I think we nailed that we definitely moved and changed a lot of things around I think that's exactly what we wanted to say anybody else yeah I think okay with that then the two yeah that one's good y yep and then page 102 the last revision or last last rision on that page perfect that why not right yeah I have no arguments everything well so if no one has any comments um I guess I would be looking for a motion to recommend approval to the city council with the removal of um item number three under the extended home occupations I will make a motion to approve um all home occupations with the removal that we spoke of on number three and keeping everything that has been outlined in the section commissioner Perell made a motion and second any further discussion see n we call for the vote all in favor say I agreed okay that takes care of that I just want to ask one question if we don't have a time frame just the sale of the property how do we do the inspections you can still add other condition so it's a inter inter use perit so likely you would also still have a condition that said you know a certain number of years that would be good for so if somebody were to keep operating a business for years there'd be some periodic time frame where you might just yeah and you can still do inspections as well along the way okay and then it's just a matter of being able to enforce them right which is where we usually have the TR yes okay thank you okay that takes care of that oh we need to close that public hearing probably should close that one no I don't think we did no we didn't okay we we'll close the public hearing and we any further discussion for this to take care of it then got lost now we'll go to the next one on the on the agenda we're going to be looking at the uh unfinished business having to do with the U 2025 draft policy of the planning and joing commission back over to our planner here thank you um I apologize ahead of time my computer battery is about to die because the charging isn't working fantastic so anything I have on the screen will just leave any second um is she plugged in at all I'm plugged the oh yes yes that guy that would do it yes that'll get you powered up wrong power plug the the it doesn't work you got to plug this one into the okay good yeah plug the yeah right right there there you go I know technology right so much fun at least there's a good answer to it all good that good there we go um it might have we'll see it got brighter so good sign you're amazing we'll keep you keep those secrets to yourself so regarding the Planning and Zoning Commission policy I made the changes that you discussed at the last meeting um the red lines in your packet I'm happy to discuss any of these changes that you want to talk about on page 104 still floating and at the end ofra section eight yep the little an just hanging out there oh okay I think that can be removed it looks like voting yeah I think that one the and can just be removed and there could be a period after business anything else um page 106 is that supposed to be an e is part of that unless agreed fun a top of page 106 you can change it to UNL agreed upon oh there is yes there yes is that me that meants to be e it is just looked like you were trying to cross it out I no it accidentally goes away with the other things above it and so when I make it a clean version it should fine okay just making sure because I was like we kind of want that to stay yes okay so far everything on that looks good since 107 we were fine with that everyone was fine with no later than Friday packet right gave them a couple extra days nice to get the public hearing notice earlier yeah y so the only thing I really didn't address that you were talking about at the last meeting was there was some discussion about um your desire to be involved in the selection of replacement Planning Commission MERS yes which I also couldn't really deal with without us dealing with the Planning Commission ordinance itself okay um so that's next on your agenda for a review and discussion in anticipation of that doesn't actually need to be advertised so for public hearing that just go straight to the city council but um similarly in there I I didn't add it in there because my feeling is that the city council might have their own procedures that they want to follow and it should be their choice yes um that those procedures could involve a longer process that might take something to the Planning Commission as well when you don't meet though in December or prefer not to meet in December I do think it makes it very difficult for you guys to be involved in the interview process process because not typically just that month that we're doing interviews it's kind of any time of the year when it arises understood but um part of what you should be doing is everybody should have a term that they're specifically so then there would be um theoretically you know every year so many people who are up yes now if nobody else applies except for cting members no interviews are prob needed right but if I mean I don't have a problem with meeting in December I know it's usually not done but we have to change the right I mean well that's what I was going to say is if we're GNA have a December meeting it should be moved up in the month and because it's get Christmas way too often like this year I think it was on Christmas Eve right like that's just not yeah come on don't make me hate everybody I I know for 49 years we've never had it in December yeah usually there's nothing going on about that time you know right and and we always wait until well maybe the month or so before we say we're not going to have it and next year it's on the 23rd this year it's on the 23rd yeah mean at least there's a day between Christmas so for those reasons though is why I end up putting that in the draft ordinance um because I do think it is up to council's preference whatever counciling I think it'd be the council's decision because all we do is recommend well that's the whole point is we're recommending who we would like to have on committee with us based on what knowledge they bring to the table that's what our whole that's the whole idea behind it correct anybody else have a thought on that we've did it both both ways yeah may I I'm glad you asked so you guys are recommending Council so there's no reason even given the current process you cannot recommend the way it is correct corre but in this the way this reads it's taking away um our request basically or our option to recommend who would have added to the committee it's just going straight to council are you on page 109 or 108 oh where was it you're GNA make me do that on it maybe the question for anybody what page are we on that says specifically about this VES section 17 Page 112 there we go so that's just related to vacancies that occur during the term yes um there's another part as well earlier where council's selecting who's on the Planning Commission yeah but that is that dealing more with terms rather than vacancies correct so your vacancies are some left before the end of the term no yes vacany if someone has left before the end of the term but um even when there isn't a vacancy because somebody's filling out their term everybody should be appointed for a certain term that does expire right um and not assumed that until they choose to resign themselves with yes where was that oh it's on page 110 at the bottom officers and members so that's where it says the three-year term overlapping and that stuff right so that's because we had nine members on our board at that time and this is where we were asking who's doing the who's doing the intervie interview process when it comes to this section and it doesn't say anything Mr chair if you would allow me so one we would have to have a deadline on what applications are due because they're voted in on the first city council meeting in January so that would be something we'd have to look at and then you guys could provide a recommendation so if you go to what Mr B said um and said hey we moved the meeting one week earlier or something like that December could be used for the recommendations if there's applicants you guys could do an interview that would be great and you guys could come out as a committee and recommend uh by a number of votes so something like that could be proposed to do and in that situation we could even make it not a Tuesday if it had to be correct right I think I would still have a December meeting then and then anybody who has an application doesn't have to wait an extra month it's really challenging with the 60-day rule but but we could do it on a Monday evening early in December rather than for Tuesday right or November or November or November yeah because the city has to make up the M mind in January they make the decision in January yeah okay so yeah so we get there we can say we're going to do it in November or have a December meeting for that purpose yes that's fine as long as we can change it to not be on the day for or day of Christmas I'm good you you would do exactly that you would propose here's the date we would like to do and propose it to the council I think they do they need to approve it I don't know that these guys could set the date for that meeting so you guys would make that decision as a group doesn't need to go to the council you're setting your date for December and use it for an application process but we would have to do that early enough in the fall no later than that so that Natalie and staff would have time to be able to recruit and open up applications to get them in time to get them to you it is a little uncomfortable if two of you are up and you also reapply and you're interviewing people but if we so yeah I mean if there's enough applicants to do so it might be but the question I have is could you still get it done in time because they have to act on the first of January and that's and that's where I would prefer not to actually embed it in your ordinances or policies because I don't like the thought of what if we couldn't get it done in time and then we're sitting without appointed Council me or appointed Planning Commission members because we haven't been able to go through the process here for whatever reason maybe there wasn't a quum maybe I don't know what but but the C but the city council can can appoint anybody any time they can take us off at any time I could be removed tomorrow if they want the city council buard that's an option no no I'm I'm just being frank we Ro neighbor sorry sorry someone needs to feed me I'm getting angry I guess I don't know personally I think it's better if the city council would do the do the interview that's my personal opinion because they're going to make the decision the final decision all we do is recommend one out of three that we recommend or something they' make the final decision but they still got to go through the process I guess I could go either way I mean I would necessarily mind being a part of if that was needed but I'm not hung up oning NE I can go both ways yeah only because the city council has so many other things to do that would be one of our duties here as as a comme does it even have to be written we so you open a meeting up your first Monday or Tuesday of December right and the council can be there put the notification together then you take the application do the hiring or not hiring but interview process in your first month or meeting and then they Goose that first city council meeting now you get they get the recommendations or the second and now they can make a decision on who to point right now they you're already set that J now they're already they're already through the process done they do a joint meeting well we've had joint meetings before with the with the city council how did Andover do it well just like what you explained to you say okay because I was thinking if we opened it up in November for applicants then in December's meeting we could discuss but you you're not going to know when the people uh for instance uh say Harold my my term is up now this say it was up this year so he would don't coming up in December that that his term was up but in the past a voice came and asked us you want to serve again so now you just have to reapply yeah yeah yeah and then if there's more than one applicant for the position that's open then you have to interview that's what's that's what we're basically setting a precence for y ask early enough please take me back I'll be good this time I'm to the point I don't hear anymore I mean wait minut matter if yes yeah I'll be honest I don't think I'd ever app but we can still with yeah so yeah so I think that's mean could add value I can just interrupt could add value to possibly bring some additional people in it instead of just rehiring the same ones so that's what this does is it puts somebody in front and they go up here and they interview and you guys ask them questions everybody has to ask the same questions to each application but you could at least see get to know them a little bit and it brings transparency to the process so I'm agreeing with you because it's good to bring new people in in in the process that's never happened because nobody wanted to fill a position I'm not going to lie getting on this committee was very scary well it's still scary no it's not that scary it's just part of what I do as a normal day so it's it's it's just m m matter of understanding the content of what we're and I I know I have to admit it takes several years to get into the Grain and same same with the city council like the if talk to mayor he's learned a lot in no time at all I've been drinking from the fire I was waiting to see if you were learning a lot forun the fire hose is right [Laughter] next okay so obviously we don't need to put that inside of this information no we can just Institute that we just we just need practice this year yes we just need to start prac whatever we do we got to get okay by the counil so other than the two changes is there anything else anybody saw that you would like to change before I send this to the council for their review and blessing like I talked to you earlier it's on page 119 B there says the terms the office expire in February I still don't understand that yeah so that's the ordinance part so that next okay well that yeah so this is still the policy if no other changes I'll make a motion I'll make a motion to keep all that we have outlined here with the one minor scatch there's two minor scotes I there was a remove the floating and and then make sure that yes the floating and sorry and the holes number three there okay I'll make that motion pear motion second any further discuss no discussion we call for the vote all in favor say I I all in favor okay we got one last right next one has to do the ordinance relating to the do correct so the last one is an ordinance related to the Planning and Zoning commission so I think I alluded to last time that your um pz ordinance in the code is really short and is Miss saying quite a few things of what your requirements and Duties are of a Planning Commission so so proposing to add all of that in here along with um other information related to the vacancies you know are filled by the council that you get compensated at the fixed rate that the council sets things like that are in here um chair am was questioning me before the meeting about why did I put in here um under Section 2-1-2 B for terms that terms of office shall expire February 1st of their last year of appointment and I did that intentionally I know normally you think of it in terms of calendar years but Council appoints at their first meeting so there's technically a gap of time there where you could end up with nobody with some bacon seats at that point in time and on some rare occasions it might be necessary to have a umal special meeting yes so that was why I I did that and then people would just wait an extra month but we can change that if you want I just I was trying to avoid that gap of time where there could be two or three vacan seats Mr chair yes question to uh Miss Nash there so if you look at that could you have you would have more council members in January's meeting then if that was the case no they wouldn't start till February 1 okay got it I I I still don't understand the Gap why there' be a gap because because in the January meeting the counil would be pointing the person that would be filling in there's there's rare occasions where your December meeting doesn't work because of the date that it is for example and you're trying to find a different day and you end up moving it to the first week of January say it begins at the council we could probably change it to um the council first council meeting of the year yeah we could probably change it to that no I think I think I'd be better otherwise you'd have officer elction in January and then you have to do again in February that's right they could yeah I'll change that to um that the terms of office shall expire upon the date of the first council meeting of the year in January I think um and then in that same section 2-1-2 but paragraph a your existing ordinance does have some language about appointing alternate members and I of course know you don't have any right now made me wonder how long has it been since you've had alternate members is that needed we've never had it never had never had it you want to recommend keeping this in the event it might be needed at some point I have needed it in other communities um so I I understand why it's here I believe we have an enough members that it's okay because we need we need a half plus one need four yeah so I think we'll be okay you've never been molested for no I think one time it did we did have that was less than nine we had nine I know Fred Bry was our chairman and uh he was sick but we called him in so we'd have a for that before you got on your her I can't remember that would have been five people well if you've never used the alternates then and haven't had trouble with absences or anything like that assum nowadays really could we you did it from the distance not not the greatest I agree but it was it was it was doable well the city ccil still has the problem with Mary from a distance that still got the echo we're working so I'll delete this in the version that goes to that part in the version that goes to the city council and um which item was that that was the alternates in 2-1-2 a the second paragraph 108 I don't page number five 119 it doesn't hurt to have it in there I suppose it seems like a no harm because it they may they may they may not it says they may so it's not which number is that page page 1199 okay so maybe keep it them's the yeah a lower quum if you have alternate who's the alternates nobody knows that's a mystery question I guess I was thinking maybe if they get extra applicants and there any time why would we need an alterate but if an alterate doesn't affect quum maybe if they get four applicant for three openings they could appoint an alternate if they think they're all good so what happens in the communities that use alternates and the way this language reads too is that the alternates would still be attending the meeting but not necessarily participating and then if commissioner Carol was going today's meeting alternate number one would step in her place and we' have never had any appointments for that so that's weird that we have any verbage for it it' be difficult to get somebody to do it part time is hard enough right now to get him do it full time unless you call people know they're going to be G and then they could call the alra and say you needed tonight Mr chair so just maybe a possible look at it this way you have seven people on you can pretty easily get a quum even if two people are out right I don't know that alternates are going to be nether those but I I think we could leave the verbage in there it doesn't so if it ever became an issue you have the ability to do that but we wouldn't need to so if there's no other changes um we'll plan to put this on the city council's agenda um and I'll probably have to work with Natalie as well because I think the last put Natalie on the spot whatever allal we weren't actually sure what everybody's terms with that's current mbers so we might want to reorganize the terms we unless you found that yeah we do have a list okay perfect go back on yours probably can figure it out the question is how are we going to do it because it was originally set up for three each year for three years 332 3 what 322 322 322 I think when the three list came on it was a one two and threee term that was that were open yeah but it was never followed up on after that was it three appointed this year two I was asked or whatever it was just after the first year I think I like finished out a partial or something and I'm my term would be up I believe now thank I can email everything didn't know that you signed up for on this oh I knew I didn't so I have um two potential changes both in that same section and we'll take a motion from recommendation sobody like make motion we send C I move that we approve that with the two changes commissioner Carlson second any further discussion CN n call for the vot everybody in favor say I I and I think there was one other thing on the agenda new business that was it was itold okay