again. I'm so sorry to keep you. Don't worry, traffic home will be much easier. I'm sure it will. We're good. All right, everybody ready? All right. Good evening everybody. Today is the 9th of July and we are in a Let's turn the mic on. All right. Good evening everybody. Today is the 9th of July. Uh and we're going to kick off our special meeting here with the pledge of allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Mr. Johnson, will you lead us in roll call, please? Mayor Hib. Council member Brian here. Council member Blazer here. Council member Rainville here. Council member Swenson here. And League of Minnesota guest Amy is it Gor and uh Chief Miller here and myself Natalie Johnson. Roll call is complete. Okay. Mr. Mayor, Council Member Bryant approve the agenda as amended. Second. We have a second from Council Member Rainville. All right. We'll go ahead and uh vote. All those in favor say I. I. Oppos. Motion carries. We'll go right to number two, which is a discussion with the League of Minnesota Cities on team building and roles and responsibilities. So, we'll turn that email. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for having me here. It's turned on. Okay. As long as it's green. It's green. Okay. It's great. And I can talk to it. Um, so, uh, my name is Amy Gore. I'm the collaboration services manager at the League of Minnesota Cities Insurance Trust, which is a way too long way of saying I help cities um work through problem solving, team building, conflict resolution, that kind of thing. Um I've been at the city for just a couple of years. Before that, I was a public policy mediator and facilitator for all levels of government. I did a lot of environmental work. Um and this is sort of my retirement job. I really like working with cities a lot because it's where you can get a lot of stuff done. Um there's a lot of common interests in communities. Uh and so so I get to drive around Minnesota hopefully not running so late as I did today most days um and and work with folks. My my formal trainings as a lawyer although I have not practiced I was u had my own mediation practice for about 30 years. So, um, and the plan today, so I'll get tell you a little bit about the trust briefly. I didn't give you all the slides. Um, I gave you the slides that might be things you want to refer to, but kind of transitional slides and things seemed like a waste of paper. Um, we have another handout which is we got the agenda already and then one other kind of the general practices sheet that we use that I might refer to, but that's also just for your reference. Um so um I work for your insurance pool not for the league itself which is a little bit different and just um to let you know that you know we we insure about 832 of the 840ome cities. So it's most of the cities in the state. It's a little different than an insurance company because um it's member owned and run. So the board of trustees for the insurance pool is made up of city council elected officials and administrators. Um, and so they want to do a lot more in-depth kind of risk management and support services than you would get from a regular old insurer. And that's why where I come along. Uh, in addition to the work that I do in collaboration, um, you may or may not have used the person who reviews every any contract you want um, uh, him to look at. His name is Chris and he reviews thousands of contracts a year. He's very good at it. um because that's you know just another way of mitigating risk. Um we now recently hired someone who does just data security assistance land use which is always often an issue for people. Um and then there's a PT uh PTSD and public mental health project that's going on with first responders as well. So other things that you can take advantage of. um when people are uh experiencing issues then um my office does more in-depth kind of help as well and I mean I actually originally talked with folks before the election and then it was kind of put off because there was a lot of change so um I don't have any assumptions I'm here to do a training right of where you are what you might need so I just thought I'd let you know and um so we do this kind of generalized training training. We have a legal research team you might have taken advantage of. They can give you they'll get you 80% there. If you ever hear of anybody saying the League of Minnesota City says, they don't. We're never allowed to tell people what to do, right? The idea is there's a lot of resources, interpretations of statutes, things like that. But then that last 80% or whatever you need is really about what's you need in your community. And just like today, I'll share some ideas that um there is no you must do, right? No blaming or shaming. It's just about are there things that you might want to think about that could improve um the way that you serve a community going forward. Um and then we do also like more intensive mediation and facilitation. Uh my boss put scapegoat on there and I left it because if you ever want to say, you know, it would be really nice to go out for a drink after and we can't because it's the league says. So we're always there to blame uh if you want as well. And then least but and this has happened you know a handful of times would be what they're what the member what the trustees are wanting to avoid is any kind of underwriting action. So every once in a while a city gets in a position where they're so worried about the risk or there's been so many payouts that they would have to change the terms of your insurance. You're not even close to that. But that's sort of what they want to do all of those other things before that. So that's the end of my advertisement. Um what I understood I had a meeting with um council member Ray Brier Brian Brian um and your mayor uh and I talked with Natalie a little bit as well um just to kind of understand what it might be that I could bring that would find you would find interesting and they talked about roles and responsibilities and working as a team and problem solving. Can I ask when when was that meeting? That was in like March or something. Yeah, it was a while. So, it's been quite quite quite some time. Yeah, absolutely. Since we had that. Yeah, it has been a while. The um when I talked to you the the spring schedule, lots of people everybody wanted to meet before the 4th, right? So, it was uh now I'm done. You are? I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow morning. Uh but yeah, it it took longer than maybe ordinarily it to schedule something. If you want to do something is within a month. I think this took a couple months. Yeah. Um and so here's the agenda just very generally. I might skip some of it given your idea to your you know beautiful night to get done earlier. Um so I'll I'm going to give you some information. I also have a certificate in organization development. So a lot of the work on teams comes from that background um as well. And uh a little bit about problem solving and then give you a chance to talk about it. I mean this is really for you. So, if there's anything that I say that you have questions about or that you're thinking maybe we do need to do that differently, um obviously this isn't a council meeting where you'd vote on anything, but certainly there's room for dialogue if you want it. Um if you don't, then um I'll just keep on talking. All right. Any questions about that? Not so far. All right. I might speed through a few things to speed you up. Um it would help me to get to know you a little bit. Um, and so I have a lovehate relationship with ice breakers. I hate the ones that feel silly. Um, and yet there's a lot of research that shows that it's really helpful uh to do it. So I try to make ones that actually kind of lead to something, right? So the one I've been trying out recently is to share with each other. I don't know if you've ever talked about it. I understand some of you are new. Um, but introduce yourself and then share uh what brought you to now then and why do you stay? That'll be a way to get to know you a little bit. Um you I'll start with I'll start what happened to now then? Um I've lived around now then. Um been in now a total of 10 years maybe 11. Um it's my second tour in now then. But why do I stay? I I absolutely love the city. Um we have 5 acres which is just great. Um we have good neighbors. Uh it's just a great community and I'm going to die in that one. I'm never leaving. Good. I might just take a vacation in a minute time. Do we need to be mindful of anything suspicious that happens to you? I don't think so. If your death is suspicious. Oh, then sure. Then you can investigate. Uh Ken Glazer, I've been in uh Minnesota since 97. moved to now then in 2006 as a result of um moving uh jobs. I went to work for a customer of mine as a project manager uh for a home builder in Andover. Um and then have done quite a few things since then in business for myself. Um and my wife and I just really just enjoy being here and I we talk about leaving someday. I just don't know when that's going to be. Great. Thank you, Dan. Brian, I grew up out here and left for nine years and said nope. Kind of came back and um am currently living on uh technically what is family farmland? [Music] Is that what keeps you here? Works for now. Property. Yeah, the property. Absolutely. Uh Rob Miller. I've been uh employed by the city for uh six six almost seven months now. Um I saw a job advertised for a part-time fire chief and felt that um the expert expertise that I had um and the need that was out there that I could fulfill something. Started out as an interim position and it's now led to about a 2 and a half year contract commitment for it. So great. Um, the reason why I stay is the the people of the city and the and the firefighters that are employed with the fire department are just amazing people. I want to see that move forward. Great. Thank you. I'm Natalie Johnson. I've been employed since 21. Um, what was supposed to be kind of a part-time job has turned into a full-time, sometimes more than full-time position. And the reason I stay is because I'm loving the challenge. I I love the actual work itself in the office and I love the team that we've built. It's great. Mary Rainell, I have lived in Nelvin since 2004. Sorry, Mary Rainell. Lived in Nelvin since 2004. Um, what brought me here was my husband and I was kicking and screaming, crying the whole time. I did not want to move. I lived in Minneapolis. um worked for the city of Minneapolis, loved my home. My family was very close to where I lived and I was afraid of coming out to some place where I knew no one and um so but my husband found the house. He we didn't like the house, but we have 40 acres and we fell in love with that. Um what keeps me here is I've grown to love now then. Um it's a very unique community. It has good, kind uh people, people that love being here. Um people that sometimes are torn between keeping it as is and wanting some change. And as a council, we have to make those determinations. Um I stay cuz I I like it. Um I do go away in the winter, but uh I it's a wonderful place to be. Okay. Thank you. [Music] I'm Dan Spencson. I moved to now with my family in uh 2019 I believe. I have six children and it's always been mine and my wife's goal to move to now because we have so many damn kids and we wanted a big house and lots of land and so we got a couple acres and finally got to a place in life where we got a house out here. So we're committed unless we move to Florida or something when we're old and retired. But for now and forever, we'll probably be in now then. Great. Thank you. Seems to be a theme of the land. Having big problem. Yeah, you can you kind I can notice that as I was you hit a certain spot and all of a sudden it kind of opens up. So that's pretty unique in this area. Y probably presents its challenges as well. It certainly does. Yep. That and and just the people in the community. It feels like I I did a little bit on your website. I found out how you got called now then and stuff the other day. But um it feels like kind of a small town feel um in a way amidst some really other bigger cities. So I grew up in the inner city of Chicago. Um I could touch my neighbor's house. So um yeah, so very different. Um, I've been in Minnesota for a long time, but um, I, uh, I've been really enjoying going to all different communities and learning about how the culture and, you know, they're smaller than my high school was. So, um, it's been really fun to get to know folks. Thank you for that. I think it just lets you kind of get grounded in the fact that I don't think any of you are here for the pay, right? You're here to mention that, right? you you're here because of some other level of commitment and and values that bring you to the table. Um, and that's important in creating a team. Um, this is a picture of the 2004, I believe, Olympic basketball team. Anyone, this is aging myself. I told you I'm close to um, anyone know why that might be a uh, why was that a notable team? It's because they only got the bronze, right? And it was um they had all these great players on it, the dream teams they were used to call it. It was this when pro basketball was relatively new. Um they couldn't play together, right? And so that's just one of the when I'm talking about teams as sort of my grounding in the idea that um each person as a unique individual may be bringing their best self and their unique ideas. Um, and teamwork to me is about figuring out how you pass the ball, right? And when to pass the ball and um, how to communicate and collaborate with each other. Um, as I've been working with cities, one of the things um, I've been learning is that that sense of teamwork is really strong. And then yet you also have opportunities when you have to vote, right? And you have to make the best argument. And so there's this tension sometimes between how do you collaborate and then when do you know it's time to stop collaborating and time to um you know you've done what you can do and go ahead and take a vote. So I think that's an interesting um dynamic but nonetheless if you aren't on the same page right to start with um then you miss opportunities to be able to find better solutions for everyone. That's kind of the theory or to win the Olympic gold. Um, so the information and these are the handouts I gave you. Um, I'm just going to share some models. I'm not going to go through them in any depth and then I'll ask you to think about whether they were, you know, useful. Uh, so sometimes when cities are having a lot of conflict, it's never what it seems to be, right? Two people can be having conflict, but it's really because there's some lack of clarity about some process or system. So oftent times there are much deeper roots. Um and one of the ways um to look at how teams are functioning is they call it's called the grippy model. That hurts the guy who made it up. Um you would diagnose how the team is doing by looking at um the base of the triangle. How are the team members interacting? How are they collaborating and communicating? Do they understand what needs to get done and who's doing it? And then are they clear on having some unifying goals? If you're trying to develop a team, the theory goes you don't start with interpersonal, right? You start with do we have a set of common goals. So that would be as a council having your strategy meeting, talking about your priorities, having criteria to decide, you know, if you can only do x number of things this year, how are you going to choose as council what you need to take on? um that kind of strategy thinking um is the first piece to team development, right? Kind of makes sense. I think this is pretty intuitive. Then being clear on your roles, right? So who does what and I'll show you a slide in another couple slides. Um which is another model to talk about. Um for the same task, you can have multiple roles, right? So think about agenda setting for example in a city. you know, I don't know how you do it, so I'm not saying this is now then, but um as a council, the council members would be um responsible for the agenda, for your meeting, right? And Natalie is probably accountable for getting it together, right? Uh and council members uh and the mayor may be consulted, right? And what do you anything you want on the agenda, right? and then um the the community would be informed because you have to post the agenda, right? So, it's one task and sometimes where where things can get um confusing, right? I just talked to somebody today where this the stress was between the mayor and the city clerk about how to do the budget because they both kind of thought it was their role, right? And there are pieces of the budget that's both of the roles is the answer. But trying to sort that out and how do we so then the next piece is how do we communicate and collaborate around that because I'm going to tell you what the roles are which you probably already know. So I'm going to go through it quickly. You can ask questions. Um but that's only half when it comes to teamwork. That's only half of it. It is then how do we talk about it? what are our understandings about what time the you know the agenda gets published and when we have to have information to the clerk and all of those things. Um oftentimes they work particularly in a smaller community until they don't right. lots of communities like, you know, they're not that big and everybody knows each other and so the council's just going along and it's great until they hit a tough issue and then realize that um it was just working because it was working until you have to pay for the new plumbing or whatever it is, right? And that creates more stress and people have more divergent opinions about some issues. So, I think there's probably some more divergence going on these days anyways just in in the world. And that's not a political statement. I just think people feel like um regardless of what they believe that there's more otherness involved right now. And I think that can create more stress. You mean by otherness? What does that mean? That there's more polarization. And I'm not judging that one or the other. I just mean that um there's more time in cities I work with often where people are talking to the people with whom they agree as opposed to with the people that they don't agree. Okay. You know what I'm saying? So that's you know I want to talk and I do too. Right. That's great. There was some this is a bit of an aside but I sure this kind of makes my point. They did a the Amazon did a with worked with one of the big research Pew Research or one of those and did a study of they correlated and it scares me that they can do this um people's voting like records with books and found that we all read different books like based on which except for and this is why I want to share it is dinosaurs. Apparently we all agree on dinosaur books. So, I'm going to use that somehow one day. Um, but that's that's what I mean by that. Um, so dinosaur books do not help you differentiate who's going to vote for what is what I just Absolutely. And also maybe maybe we all like dinosaurs. So that's a common interest we can use in some way. Transcends politics. Transcends I don't know why I but but that's sort of my what I think about when I say collaboration and procedures is finding the things you can agree on. And oftent times agreeing on how we will do things in terms of communication and collaboration then helps you with the what. So when the what is hard if the how's in place that helps the team stick together. Make sense? Um I think that's all I want to say about that. Um anybody have any questions or comments? I won't say a lot about this next slide. It's just another model to think about. You've probably heard of Patrick Lencion. The five dysfunctions of team is um I like his work actually may have read it. Um I changed it to functions because I'm a mediator and we try to look at the positive but this is if the slide before is like looking how your organization is functioning. This is looking at um how you are working with each other. Um, and Lencion's ma main point is that um, you can't really get to the results at the top of the triangle unless you focused on having some trust building and conflict resolution. So that you you need to put into place openness, dialogue, those kinds of things before you try to get to the hard stuff. And it's just a reminder to me to kind of slow down, right? um starting together as a new team and building your norms and those kinds of things may take a little bit of time. Then once it's organized and sorted out, if there's anything you need to address, then it goes quicker going forward. I think we've seen that even from when our council formed initially and going through the steps of uh building a team to where we're at now because the last couple months have been really smooth and we're clicking along. But I wanted to ask Mary and Dan because you guys have been doing this longer. Did you guys have the same Have you seen this multiple times as the new councils come together that it Oh, yeah. So, it just takes a little bit of time to to storm and norm until you finally form that team or it doesn't or it doesn't. Yeah. I I think for the most for the most part we as a council have really in the end you put your personal differences aside um because that's what makes us not agree I think on on different issues is our personal experiences our personal beliefs but when you put the beliefs or what is best for the residents in front of you and what is best for the resident then I think we come together Um because the way that's our job is to represent the the residents, right? Like you found a common interest that you can all agree on is you're trying to do what's best for the residents. Yeah, absolutely. The challenge is always going to be though, you know, having to um be conscious of open meeting law and you know, we can only spend so much time together, right? I I actually think workshops I've been doing some research into I wanted to know what helps cities succeed rather than spending all my time in helping cities that need more support like let's see if I can like get ahead of this right and one of the things that I'm finding is that cities that do workshops um tend to do better like this like like this and I don't mean training workshops I mean dialogue I mean sort of to the lension points that you got to talk to each other and talk about like what experiences lead you to the beliefs you have not that you're going to change people's minds, but it helps you understand, but that's not something we've done at all. Right. And so workshopping is something that only for hard issues. I mean, you you know the ones we've done plenty of challenging ones already. That's been I'm the new way here and that's been an adjustment for me. And you know, the open meeting law and feeling weird about like I just I you know, I feel like I already know these guys because I feel like I can't talk to anyone. And I'm used to in my work like brainstorming and spitballing and talking things through, but I mean that is a clear violation of the open meeting law if we all got together and did that and then came into a meeting. But, you know, it's it's it's hard to adjust because we got to do all of our talking and collaborating, you know, on camera on the record in a meeting. Absolutely. It's and it it's it I for newly elected there's two things. One, often times people are surprised. They tell me of how slow things. You can't just go to the January meeting and have something right. Oh yeah, this is things take a long time. And also the navigating how to do things in the open, I think, is really hard. I mean, it doesn't mean that you want to keep secrets. It's that you want to be more informal, right? Were you going to say something, Natalie? I did. I just wanted a question. In your opinion, do most cities um record all of their work sessions or do they not? You know, I at the training that I had had, it seemed like most don't. And it's because then people can feel better to brainstorm and not have everything come back and then you can be more open and if the public wants to be a part of that, they can come to the meeting. I'm just wondering what do you actually see? I I see my recommendation is just that um assuming that you're you know you have to check with your attorney for there are very limited reasons you can close a meeting. So I'm not talking about closing a meeting. Um however as far as I know check with research. There's no requirement and I've been in plenty of cities where it's not recorded and it's not to keep secrets. Again, it's just to um uh have more of dialogue and you can have some discussion without having it taken out of context. Um and post the meeting and people come and sit if sit in if they want to. And this is this is the first city that I've ever worked for where um like a work session is is on video. It's always just been a roundt discussion. have people show up to usually set on the peripheral um and listen and we've done it both ways. We've had workshops that weren't recorded than the meeting was. So yeah. Yeah. I mean like I said there's no must to to any of it. However, it is worth considering. Um the impact it has on kind of what you're how you're thinking about what you can share and and these days a lot of it is to the worry about context. But the one good thing about and I will state this. The one good thing about recording is if somebody does take it out of context. You can go back and watch it and say here's what I actually stated. So there there's pros and cons to it. We've talked through it. Um some residents really want it because then they don't have to come and then they can view it. Uh and and they also look at as being completely transparent because you're recording everything and putting it out there. So there's there's a balance and there is no right answer to it. Exactly. And it really depends on it's policy decision for the council and it really depends on your community, right? Like I say, we never tell you what to do. Um, but it's it's it's worth asking yourselves if you're going to do a meeting which way you want to go. Maybe that's something we can look at for next year. Um, is looking and say, "Hey, we we don't need to do this. We've been transparent." But it could even depend on the issue, I suppose, too. I don't know. But like for training for this I mean this is simply training right you know use it this is an example as a workshop right any more questions about that all right I'm going to just take you straight we'll do some more talking throughout rather than some of the more formal formalized questions I have in there thinking about being a facilitator my middle name is flexibility so um I'll talk a little bit because this was another topic roles and responsibilities. I think you have this next slide. Um this is sort of my summary of um the governance and management role of the city council. Uh so it's not um you can read the statute. You have a weed inspector and you have other things in the statute which I think it's the mayor inspects the weeds, right? Um and other things that are very specific. But in general, um, one of some of the helpful things to think about is that the council's time horizon is the farthest out. Um, and you're the only your role in your role. You're the only body or group that can think that way. I mean, that's your job is to think strategically together about um what your planning is way going forward, right? um and you focus on the ends meaning this is where we want to go. Your administrative fa staff um would focus on the means meaning how to do it. So um that's where one of the clarification and there's a lot of overlap and communication that has to occur, right? Um you have to let the staff know through whatever channels you use with your employees what the will of the council is. Um and then the staff do their work and they report back. Right? One of the pieces that can get really challenging is if the council is not um providing work direction as a whole, right? So your role is as a body to set the standards and the goals and where you want to go and not necessarily as an individual because that can get really hard on the staff if they're getting different direction from different people. So it's just a matter of and it happens. there's an emergency, you make a decision, you report back to the council. So, there's always that do you have the feedback loops in place to make sure that whatever's occurred between meetings gets reported back um that you're getting updated by the staff on how they're implementing. Um that I wouldn't get involved in what the form looks like, right, as a council because that's going beyond. So, the little the tiny pieces of what's happening um is generally not your role, right? So, I think we just kind of summary, we we've set the goals as a council. So, I think that's been good. We did it initially and then we've done an update to it. Um, and then the feedback loop, a lot of it is you're sending weekly emails out to say, "Hey, I've been working on this." So, I think we're doing pretty well in that. That's what it feels like to me. But, um, if there's a different technique on that, it'd be all yours. Like I And like I said, these are the how you do it is more what if you're somebody surprised by this information and saying, "Oh, wait. I thought I could tell Natalie what to do, then we should talk about it. But the specifics of how you do it, there are many ways depending on the size of your personality of the mayor. I mean, there's a lot of um things uh that might influence exactly how you do it. Does anyone have any questions about I would like some feedback from council as to what I'm doing is what you want. Am I giving you too much information, not enough information? Do you want all the daily tests? Do you just want the big jobs? I really haven't summaries on Fridays. Yeah. So for me, when I read summaries, it's typically a high level of what's taking place. I definitely don't need the individual detail that Joe did this, this, this, this, and this this. So to me, it could be summarized up less, but the way you do it, if I had any question, I could figure out everything that you guys have done because it's so detailed. So I would request a summary. this higher level. But the rest of the council, I would agree with the mayor. I I don't think it's necessary to quit quite hit every little detail that you've done every week. Sorry. Quite Yeah, I would agree with the mayor that I don't think it's necessary that you you hit every detail that you've, you know, done during the week. It it seems a little I don't know, like I don't know. It just feels excessive. I I do think it's helpful and I appreciate it. And there are sometimes when you get into the details like there are one of those details or a couple of them that are useful. So it's not unusful that you do it, but I do think maybe it's unnecessary to go quite to that extent. But um yeah, so I have mixed feelings on it because sometimes it is cool and helpful and sometimes it just feels unnecessarily detailed. Um I I appreciate the updates. Um, I I I don't need to know that um payroll was completed because I know it is. You know, there's there's a trust level there and I know that you're doing the things that need to be done to allow the city to work and and to progress. Um, when there's something unique, that's very interesting, you know. Um, but the regular daytoday stuff, I for myself, I know that you're doing it. I know that public works is doing what they're supposed to be doing. I know that the fire department is is taking care of their tasks. Um I like the the unique things. What did we learn new this week? This this is the first time we've done something. Um or what the hot topic was or something. But the the I did payroll, I did website updates, I did um Facebook updates. We know you're doing those because we see them. So that is probably a little bit more. The the fact that we were out of five we had three new maybe in the beginning all of that was good because then people got an idea of what is being done on a daily basis but now we know that. So spend your time on a a a slim down report that hits the highlights. And if I may speak again you just raised something in my mind. You know, I'm I'm a lawyer, too. And you know, I think we're notoriously bad managers. Like, it's just a thing that lawyers don't know how to manage staff. And that was the same thing. I came out and I had sta came out of law school and I had staff and I had no idea how to manage them. And I've just sort of figured it out. I still have no idea if they do a good job. But I feel very strongly not micromanaging. And I've always had sort of the the approach to like management that, you know, either you trust your employee and they're you let them work or you don't, you find a new one. And so it, you know, the the part of me that's sort of opposed to those very detailed emails is, you know, maybe a sort of guilty feeling like you're feeling compelled to maybe justify your job or your actions. And you know it it makes I don't know it just I'm very much not a micromanager and so you know if we trust you and you know that dayto-day stuff especially it's just you know do your thing and you know like Mary said the interesting little tidbits that we might get emails or calls about like you know some crazy happenings or some angry resident or whatever you know that I would like to know for sure but you know the dayto-day stuff. Yeah, it's a bit much. Yeah, we talked about that and this summary is good, but we don't I don't necessarily need I mean it's find it's finding the right balance between okay, I probably need to go into more detail about this versus that. And like I we talked about this. I just don't like I just don't like surprises. So that's you know having some things in the email to go so that we're there's no what happened here. I think everybody hit hit all the points that I could possibly address and um and the the one thing that I would add and and I think Mary might have touched on it is just also respect for your time because it takes a lot of time to put that together and your staff. So, you know, the the high level things, the things that that are, you know, um come to come to the city from residents or things that may potentially affect residents, things that affect the council are are great for me. You know, also, especially this time of year for me, my my time is even more limited. So, and the the repairs and that kind of stuff with public works, like the tire that just went down and the tractor that had to sit in Isaac, so that if somebody um complained and said that the city tractor was at Isaac, she knew why kind of a thing. I I think something like that's appropriate. So, it's not a daily task. So, I can work with you on this. That's something that we can break down what's daily, what's important. And so, we do a lot of summaries at work and I have to read a lot of summaries. So, I can definitely help on this one and we can we'll do a dry run and let's neck it out. That would be awesome because that that example itself is helpful because when people post on Facebook, when are they going to be mowing the ditches? Yeah. Well, we just had a had a service issue where something had to be repaired. So, they'll be back up. Yeah. I I I had numerous uh questions on on 191st Gravel Road. It was potholes. I said, "Our equipment is being repaired." You know, we we don't have three graders. with one grader when something goes down on the grater, it's down and it takes it doesn't get fixed like this. So having that kind of information is nice and maybe even if you just shoot us an email at the time and then you know you're done with it. I mean that would be so I I would be fine with that. Doesn't have to wait till Friday or something, right? Yeah. But I agree with Dan like no surprises. That's but I we don't we haven't had surprises at least in my book. I mean, I think you've done a really good job of keeping us appraised. And I got to tell you, I think there's more emails than probably even I need. I'm I'm just going to throw it out there. I haven't been surprised on anything. It sounds like the level of communication has reduced mistrust. Oh, yeah. Right. And now they're saying we trust you on some things. So, yeah. Rob, anything from the fire department in terms of how you No, I think we uh you know, we get the monthly update and if there's a criminal incident or something like that, I would update it. And I think it hits high levels for the council. Um, unless you want something more from me, I think usually no news is good news. So if you're not if you're not communicating back with me that you need more or whatever, you're in the hot seat on Monday or up. Thanks for asking that question though. And thank you council. Right. And it sounds like there's a general sense of agreement and you'll forward. Um, all right. So, we just talked about this. Policy level decisions, managing employees, communicating clear direction. And do you have committees? Not so much. We have a P&Z committee. That's the only one. We're uh, Council Rabel setting up a special committee. We're calling it ad hoc to work on the memorial park. So we're looking at ad hoc committees um as more of a standard than just having committees that aren't actioning or recommending things that are necessary. Right. So just being clear on their role is also important. That's all I'm going to say about that. And I think the P&Z does very good because they've been self- sustained for a long time. But as we do this first ad hoc, I think that it is going to be an important piece because we're going to use this model as we go forward because there's going to be more ad hoc communities in in my mind the Okay. So, what I will say about clerk responsibilities is it's a really hard detail oriented job and it takes a certain person to do it well. And because Natalie found a time discrepancy on my agenda, I know she's detail oriented. She is the person I want for reading all my stuff. Um, but in all seriousness, it's, you know, it used to be the clerk's job way back when. Um, you put did everything in a book, right? People came in and paid their bills and you wrote it. I've seen the books in city halls, right? And every time there's a new rule and every time there's new reporting requirement and every time there's new IRS rule, it adds something to the clerk's job which has now become I think you have due dates every week. I mean, there's just like it's a really um the implementation takes a lot of time, right? It does. in the last legislative session or last year's two brought a a lot of changes like the ESST and not only family medical leave or some of those other things. Yes. Right. So, it's just um to know that um even though you're not writing it all down. Um and that's another reason I don't think that's happening here. It sounds like it's not. You've got it sorted out. Um that you know there needs to be some level of trust that the clerk is doing their job because you can't check up on all that. There's no way. It's, you know, nor do we want, nor do you want to like I'm an anti micro manager myself when my when I was a boss and um I was a terrible boss. I was really the boss were good. People who were doing well cuz I let them do their job, but when they needed support, that was not my strong point. So that's what I always tell my people when I interview them. Like, you know, I give you enough freedom to do everything you want to be a great employee. If you want to slack, you're probably going to get away with it. Please don't. together. Um, and then again just it's in the slides, but people have different roles. It doesn't mean you treat them any less as a person, right? And that also is sometimes with cities where um people feel like um disrespected intentionally or unintentionally. And I can tell from the conversation you've had that that's not, you know, how you're thinking about it necessarily, but just to be aware of that. Um so this is the other um this um is just another tool that uh I was talking about earlier when you talk about for the same item if you're getting confused about who's doing what. It's a just a helpful thing to look at. So who's really responsible for getting the work done, who's overseeing it, um who gets to give information. So this would be like a committee to be clear that they're consult consultative to the council. they don't necessarily have responsibility for the final decision. So, it's just it's just another model where a lot of tech companies use this because they like grids. They put all of the elements of the test on one side of the grid and then who is in each box, who's responsible and accountable and used very much in project management. Y the racy matrix is all done. Yeah. And again, understand who your key stakeholders are, who needs to be informed, who's accountable, who is truly responsible and responsible, accountable could be two very different people, right? That's important, right? And so just um if you find yourselves kind of lost in who's doing what, it's a good touchstone. So, and I I actually use I actually go through that sometimes when cities are very unclear of roles, we'll actually go through one that's useful. Um all right. Do you have anything else you want to discuss? I'm not going to make this formal given timing, but you know, do you have any thought about what's going well, what's not going well? Um, I would like to just mention and again I could bring this up is when we met um it was Council Member O'Brien, Natalie and myself. Um, in March, I think we're a very different council when we hit June. Yeah. And now we're in July. So some of the things we've talked about have already worked themselves out and like and I'll just give you an example like the level of trust it's increased AC in my mind increased across the board but maybe we didn't have that trust but I think a lot of the um bonds have been built um the respect levels have increased so a lot of the things I think the working relationships and again this is just me talking so it's just Shane's opinion but I think a lot of the working relationships have came a long way where and that's really important as we have to be a team whether we agree or disagree it's okay we just got to do it respectfully and I I agree with the mayor we are we are in a different part we are in a different spot on the scale than we were January February March April and um I mean last night was reflective of that I think the only vote that wasn't a 5-0 was when I voted no on the the county wanting money for the ball last streaks uh project. Um so we we we've come around we've done really well. I think we're working well again my just my opinion we're working well with staff um looking at what staff has done and what gets accomplished. I feel that they are more comfortable with us as a council um and are able to focus on what it is they see that needs to be done. Um, and and I only see that getting better as we work together as a group. I think you look at July, but July was better than June. So, if we backwards look at this over the last 3 months, I think it's continually gotten better. Well, and and we we tackled some big things as a new council. Yeah. And we were Yeah. And and we were two twos for a while till Dan joined us. we were two twos um on votes and so things didn't pass for good or bad. Um so it we we've really come a long way and um I I think we should be very proud of what we've accomplished as a council. Um you know we've got the personnel policy done. We got um the the role the what our goals are. We got the issue of an election special election the fire department going permanent part-time chief. Now, those were some big things and and there are things that when you get elected to a body, unless you have there aren't a lot of job experiences that re correlate with government and how government runs and how you need to do things. you know, you can have some of the similarities in your own your own businesses, but the rules and regulations that government operates under makes things difficult to do. Um, and I think that we in a short time have gotten past a lot of those learning curves. And um, again, I think we are working well together as a team and it can only get better. There'll always be ups and downs because we all have our own opinions on how something should be done or what how something should should be and I think if we just keep working together we'll get through anything that comes in front of us else want to speak to that I I just want to say that I I think you know I hear more people that have concern when there's never any dissenting vote And and so I think it even though even though we disagree and sometimes you know conversations get heated um I think that when you have some disscent it it increases dialogue and you know um ideas and uh uh and so I I I actually think it's it's healthy. That's actually where we're going next in the slides. So, yep, I hear you. Can I ask Natalie? Natalie, how are you how are you seeing things from from a council perspective back to the staff? Is the communication increase? Is the coordination increase? Is it better, worse? Um, I will say that I learned a lot of things in the last few years and carrying over grudges or whatever from one council to the next seems to be something that isn't done by staff. Um, we've focused a lot on just moving forward and not talking about anything in the past. Um, we've been working really hard on that with some of the longtime employees. Um, also about our amount of discussion with any kind of descent. Um, it's stopped now and it's it's different than it was a year ago or 6 months ago. Um, I feel like I was under a microscope and I don't quite feel that way anymore, but I also want to make sure that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing because we really have never sat down and had this is the expectations of what your position is going to be. Um, I think Dan and I talked about it and he's gonna do up a like a resolution with a job description and a salary and that kind of stuff for me for the and we'll probably do it at the fire meeting on Monday only because Lori needs stuff for budgeting. We need to know what that is going to be. So, it won't be too long hopefully. But I feel like as a staff, we're communicating better and as um a clerk to you guys, I feel like I've communicated everything that we're doing. Um and I hope that it's appreciated and I'm meeting your expectations. We need to finish the job description. There's no doubt about it because yours is going to be a hodge podge. What I'd ask you is put together a draft on what you think because you're going to probably know it better than anybody else. And we've been working um the last couple of weeks when we have time on getting all the positions done, you know, and several of the the staff work multiple positions that in, you know, they wear multiple hats. So, what they've done is they've kind of split it up as to okay, Dileia as the uh fire department administrative assistant and the recycling and the public works administrative assistant, Lexi as the finance assistant and the communications person. Um, so really working hard on trying to get all of the tasks for each of those. Um, and then kind of combining all the stuff that I do and all the stuff that Scott used to do into like one big pile. So, and some of them things maybe we can just take them out that there might be additional things in there that are not important to the position, right? And I did take out some like attending all of the local government stuff, you know, going down to the, you know, there are some administrative um meetings that I would like to go to still that's are quarterly, but going down to meet all the legislators for the small cities at the government is probably something I don't need to do. It is something that the mayor and council members could do. So that is what I have been kind of pulling out. Yeah, you can pull them out, set them on the side, and when we review it, we can say, "Hey, these should be pulled back in or these can go out." But yeah, bring your recommendation board. All right. Thank you. Sounds like there's this theory of change that talks about there has to be an ending, then there's a neutral zone, then there's a new beginning. I think the idea is it doesn't happen in a moment when change, right? We all go change, right? But that and they has and people move through that at different paces, right? And the ending is about grieving and people get stuck. And the neutral zone is about what's going to happen next. So there's a lot of ambivalence. And then new beginnings is when enough people kind of come together and say, "Okay, this is how we're going to move forward." It really feels like when I talked to you before, there's sort of some neutral zone stuff going on. And now it feels like you've really coalesed around what you want to do and how you're going to do it. So yeah, that's awesome. Um, I won't spend any more time on that. Um, yeah, we can talk about that another time. I'll show you this one. So what what that was about the idea of um if people are being what would be quite positional meaning I'm looking um I view our discussions as if I win you lose right that's one way that people see um their discussions as they're trying to make progress or negotiate um that tends to create um you know you do things like start with extremes because you're going to have to give something up and um you want to take away at what the other person's idea is cuz you know if they get more you get less and the idea of collaboration which I think you've already shown that you have so that's why I skipped the slides is you know shift it to trying to understand what's important to everyone and seeing if you can get more than just you know so creating value as opposed to trying to claim value is the idea behind um collaborating and I think with councils it's something that um is important for your community, right? It might seem like, you know, I'm going to fight as hard as I can to get exactly what I want for my community, and that doesn't open you up to the other perspectives that people could bring that might make it even better, right? And so, and I'm not you're not doing this, I don't think, but that idea of, you know, the fistbanging kind of approach um tends to um reduce the effectiveness of everybody. That's the idea behind some of those slides I skipped and the piece I think um Dan or somebody else already mentioned this that um there's a lot of research on this that if you are in conflict oh it's Ken if you're in conflict about constructive like things stuff and things as my teenage daughter would say what's going on stuff and things right like the substance of it um if you're have conflicts about that and different beliefs and you're going to um talk it through and see where there's area for compromise and vote if you have, you know, might not be a five roll vote if it doesn't have to be, that can be really helpful both to the team and also to getting good results. When it gets personal is when it's really damaging. So, when it's it's Ken and I are having disagreement about a policy or a thing or what ice cream we like or whatever it is, that's fine until I say, "Well, you're stupid for liking strawberry, right?" And so when it gets don't like Neapolitan either, just make up your mind. So and that that's just you know something to be aware of because it can be easy to slip into um not talking about the ideas and seeing it as the person and that's what all that's you know league is big on doing um civility things. I went to the annual conference. They talked about civility a lot. That's really how I would sum it up would be um treat people with respect. Listen, right? Um regardless of whether they're you perceive them to be agreeing with you or not. Can I say something? Yeah. Yeah. So, I was just, you know, thinking about this and I see this a lot in my work. You know, I I practice both personal injury and work comps, so car accidents and work injuries. And I for whatever reason I've noticed in the car accident arena, they're different attorneys usually than work comp. And there's so much conflict. Everything's a fight. Everything's an aha moment waiting for court or trial or whatever. And it always leads to conflict and it blows up and it's you got to fight about all this stupid stuff. And in the work comp side, everybody's friends like, you know, you talk about the issues before you get to court and you don't look like a bunch of bickering little children in front of the judge. And I sort of view like the residents as the judge in this scenario. You know, we get in here and if there's like, you know, surprises and fighting and bickering, it's like, what the hell is going on over there? And so, I mean, I I guess I just way to say I would agree. I I dislike conflict. I don't, you know, I'm a lawyer, so people think I like, you know, like to argue or whatever, and I hate it. I'm arguing about something. It's It's not going well. I'm a middle child. Oh, what? Middle child. Middle of seven. Where? Where are you in birth order? Middle child. Really? I'm Dan. That would be five for five. Wow. So, can someone explain to me exactly what that means? Cuz I'm kind of a middle child between an older brother and sister and younger. But are you literally in the middle? Different parents. How many? What? Yeah. I'm the oldest of my parents, but the middle of my dad's cousin. We'll count. We'll keep you. I'm the youngest two. Okay. So, explain to me what the middle. Aha. So, as a it and this part of being a middle child applies more to I think when we're more in our more junior years being antagonistic. Um but you know uh tending towards um not shying away from conflict typically. So you know it uh you know sometimes you just charge right into it. But I think too sometimes a middle child is you're trying to appease the people on both sides of you. If you're the youngest you just do the one next to you. If you're the oldest you do the one next down from you. You do the one next to you. But when you are middle, you're looking at two different because they're usually different dynamics and age. Um we had seven kids and so it was there's an age age spread there and and um you know what the older ones used to get away with the younger or what the older ones couldn't get away with the younger ones the stuff the older ones couldn't get away with and what the the younger ones could basically do whatever they do whatever they want. No holds back. That's how it goes. Yeah. Aren't you typically the not the favorites though? If you're the middle child, you're ignored. Yeah. I'm Gen X and a middle child. Nobody cares about a lot of stuff written about it. And yeah, I mean, it's that kind of thing. I don't know if it's like a horoscope or there's how much truth there is to it, but a lot of people say that you're both. It's fascinating to me that you're all middles. You said that. You said you were finals. Oh, I thought you were chief. She's the baby. She's the baby. I already talked about change. I gave you that practices handout. It's just another tool. Sometimes um I give people there's actually a survey that goes through all of the good governance practices. It's all of this stuff. and they like it in communications cuz it has what is that when every letter means something. Um but there's some good ideas in there just the idea of um the things that that you pay attention to that create kind of the robustness that then if there is a harder issue you're set for it. So I won't spend much time on that. Can you go back to this model if I had me Thomas? Yeah. And I think you talked on it, but I think that's really important to look at the uh assertive versus cooperative. Uh absolutely the different. So I'd love to hear your professional opinion on this and what should we avoid. Oh, okay. So the Thomas Kelman conflict mode instrument is one of the two actually validated tools that will tell you how you tend to approach conflict. Um and I'm glad you don't skip this. This is great. Yeah. And you can pay 20 bucks or something now to take it or find the ones online that I wouldn't give you, but you can find it yourself if you want to and take it to give you an idea. Although, but if I explain it, you'll probably see yourself in it somewhere. Um, and the idea is from the low high on the assertive axis, it's how much um focus do you put on getting your own needs met, getting what you want. Um and on the cooperative um horizontal axis, it's how much focus do you put on the relationship you're having with others, right? And so um if you are low assertive, low cooperative, that's avoiding. Um that's um you're so uncomfortable with conflict usually that you just would rather not engage. Okay. Right. Um and the upside to that is you don't have to experience it. The downside is you know you don't ever have children get out of it. Yeah. No, nothing changes. Right. And then going up the axis, competing is about very assertive on having my own needs met um and less focused on other people, right? So it's the the win lose is kind of the there's this book called Getting to Yes, which is kind of a seminal negotiation book. They didn't create all the theories, but these guys Fischer and Yuri wrote the book that takes all the theory and makes it readable. And you know, it's probably a couple hour read. I bet you read it. I did some point in law school. um and and and they use this win-lose kind of um description. So, the downside of competing is it's really hard in relationships. So, particularly if you have ongoing relationships like a workplace, right, and somebody's competed really hard um and uh then the next time something comes up, somebody can tend to feel feel somewhat defensive, right? because you don't if you have ongoing relationships if somebody competed hard they felt like they lost the last time um then you kind of steal yourself to not lose the next time and so it can create um the polarization if you have a lot of competitiveness um on the other side bottom right um there is also the I lose you win approach which is focusing more on maintaining relationship and less on getting your own needs met um people love you at work if you're an accommodator because you do all the work. Um, but right, I mean, um, but there's a downside of that, um, which is you're aren't getting sustainable, your own self- sustained in terms of your own needs met. This happens a lot. Like in my personal relationships, I tend to be much more accommodating, right? When my husband and I had our kids, four kids when they were little, I didn't care if we got a date night where we went, right? Like, I'm not going to fight for the right. It's all about I want I get to spend time with you, right? So, you're going to change based on the situation. Um, the other thing to know is that people assume others are acting like us. That's why this is kind of secret. Sometimes I'm accommodating you. Um, and often times I think that means that you will accommodate me back and you might not even know that I've done it, right? And that's when you get kind of the proverbial perverial. It used to be cap off the toothpaste. I don't know. Now we don't have caps. The sock on the floor or whatever it is the thing. now you left a crumb on my desk and somebody explodes um and the other person doesn't realize it's because there was this ongoing accommodation occurring um because they're not being relational. So that's a hard dynamic. Um compromising is okay okay I guess you know it's really quick it's fast split it in the middle don't worry about it and move on. It's a really useful technique right? Um, the downside is you might not maximize the best solution you can if you were to dig deeper. Eating DS uses the story about oranges. You know the orange story? I'll tell it quickly. Let's just say I get home, my kids are fighting over the last orange in the refrigerator. Um, and they two of them want one, right? And what am I going to do if I'm compromising? Cut in half. Yeah. Cut in half and let's be done. I had a long day. If I didn't have such a long day and I say, "So, what are you gonna do with the orange?" Like, ask the more curious question, you could find out that one wants the zest for frosting and one wants the juice um to drink. And so, you can get a better solution if you understand more. It's a very simple example um that they use in the book. Um but that's the idea. And if you look at the line between competing, compromising, accommodating, when I was talking about being positional and claiming value, that is sort of where people um go back and forth. Who can get how can I get so much more of my pie? How can I get so much more p my pie? And collaborating says, can we both meet each other's needs or as many needs as possible? Um and also m stay and focus on maintaining good relationships and that's collaborating. People call it win-win. I call it suffer suffer sometimes in my work. I mean nobody ever walks out of a mediation going woohoo I won, right? Uh but they're going I did the the the mindset is I did better than I would have um given all of my other alternatives to working and out today. Right? And that's the idea like have you met your interests in a way that allows you to move forward and everybody feels like they got something um which helps maintain relationship. Does that make sense? Y that's good. Best negotiators do all of those. Trained negotiators will choose what to do. Most of us have a default or two if you were to take the quiz. Um and so and I put this slide in. So thanks for asking. Um just to talk about um the idea that there are times when um to get the best decisions and to keep focus on the relationships in the team slowing down to do the work of collaborating is important. The downside of collaborating is it takes a lot of time right you have to have the time to sit and talk and discuss and you may have you know issues that don't need that level of um discussion. Um it tends to you tend to have it tends to take less time overtime as you get to know each other. But yeah, it sounds like you're doing some of that. Um it sounds like you actually have a problem solving process. This is something we had talked about earlier. Um but it's just the idea that um it if you try to solve the problem without understanding and defining it and talking with each other about it um you are likely to get stuck chief wants to buy a fire truck. So that was our problem statement. So we're going through this and and we're asking him to take it back and collect some more information. So we're really looking at generating alternate solutions. I I think we've had good discussion as a council group. we don't agree, which is which is fine. So, taking it, sending it back, tableabling it, and getting some other options out there, right? Options, recommendations, costs. What do we not yet know that if we had that information um could help us get closer to a decision and what can happen sometimes if people are trying to go too quickly is, you know, something comes up at a council meeting and try to decide that meeting and it tends to reduce trust because people haven't felt like they had the time to understand or be heard. So um there are lots of I mean I actually did a grid once. People call it all different things in the tech world. There's a there's something they do that they call it starts with an A anyways or there's you know creative problem solving or there's mediation or there it's all kind of the same thing. These are the same basic steps. So I don't have a particular model just as a reminder and it sounds like I think you are really working towards that um if you haven't already. Um so yeah I don't think I'm going to present anymore um unless you see please ask if you see something in the slides. I think your discussion covered it there has been some positive discussion just talking your collaboration side. There you go. Just touch base on that particular one. So, one that I would like to just add add on this is, you know, even as a group and you may not agree, but how do we stay positive? Um, not damage relationships, meaning we're not doing any personal attacks because we all have the same intent in mind is we want to do the best thing for the residents. So, how do we do that? And and again, it was it was a little rocky starting out, but I think it is substantially better. I really do. Um, so if I look at that, it has been more positive. And I think positive, I always look at it as, you know, you could have a rotten apple over here. Well, that can make the whole area go rotten. But by staying positive and giving that positive vibe about, I I I think that's something that others will emulate is being positive as we go through some some tough decisions sometimes. Okay, that was enough. No, that's great. One other thing on the slide we haven't yet touched on would be the idea of orienting new staff and elected officials um would be um as you are going through and learning these things right this is your opportunity perhaps to document them um in a way that you know think about when you were in your first or second month um as a council member or as a new staff member what would you want to know right and it can be really useful even to have things like statement of desired culture or you know the kinds of things that might help somebody rather than sitting down at a meeting. We're starting now, right? So um that the league has some they have sort of all these a whole list of things you might want to put in it and I know it's more work uh but I think it can help you avoid um getting you know help people on board quicker and understand what their role is quicker. So, something to think about. Um, even from the time you're elected, I don't I don't know if you felt the same way, but from the time you're elected to the first meeting, it would be great to have some training before you go into that instead, oh, first council meeting, go figure it out. And we got we did get training. I think we went what February or March. Yes. Something like that. So, it you know, it was relatively quick, but something right beforehand like just covering every meeting law that's really important. some city administrators are starting to meet with candidates now as just you know so I'm not saying that's what you should do I'm just like you know the idea that or as you're elected not as an official meeting or anything but come in look at the books what do you want to see kind of let's show because people may have run for office not really understanding all the complexities or you know write down I wish I knew then what I know now before you forget and what are those things because that could be really helpful and I think that helps maintain the culture you want. Um this at least and I think this is true in almost any organization. It's harder to remember to think about those big picture things when you've got pressing issues, right? So that's why I remind you of that. Um does the league actually offer the newly elected classes in December? Because I don't think we found them since. No, they only do it in February because people have to be sworn in. Well, they do. Oh, they have to be sworn in and I know they have to. But then you're because oftent times the city will pay for them to go and right they got to again there's that the processes. However, that doesn't mean that um depending on where you're on election side, the mayor or another council member couldn't invite people to come in um and just share information or that you as a clerk do you have any questions? right? Or here are the procedures we t we use. Doesn't mean the council can't when they get together agree to change them, right? But it just helps kind of do some level setting. Um so it's useful. But yeah, the I think the newly elect that and that and you know what if you can't make it that day? Do you does a league have like a I'm sure they do like a handbook for new elected officials where it covers open like that that that the city can then when we have officials that are elected we can give that to them sooner. Right. They even have a list of all of the things you might want to provide to a newly elected or or a new staff member. Um that could be useful for you as well as the handbook. Um, they also have short videos if you ever have an interest. They're like they're trying to appeal to the short video culture and but it's really good stuff. There's an open meeting law one that when I first started league I watched like three times cuz there's so many little intricacies to try to remember. um they're ones and roles and responsibilities and they're free I think for members to just they are yeah they're really useful and I think as staff we um I certainly tell the staff all the time I think we learn something to them every day the open meeting law was one of the biggest ones that I learned is that we have to actually post so if four of them are going to go to the league or the local government officials meeting I have to post that there could be a possible quorum that they aren't going to do any business um or to Heritage Festival or the now threshing show just making that commonly known. Mhm. Interesting. Yep. And then you all have to sell where you go. I mean you that that does create some challenges, right? Well, that would be one of the reasons I always ask are are you interested in going to the LGO this month? Because if I know there's four, I know I have to close something on the bullet board, right? Or three, right? And sometimes we have four, I guess. Three or four or more. Yeah. So, um, I said I'd get you done around 7:30. It's almost 7:30. anything else that you know you think we haven't covered that things that you had questions about that maybe you could as a group discuss now while you have a less formal I I think there's one important point that uh council member Glazier brought up and it was really about not agreeing on everything um we do want to be careful where we don't get into a group think mentality that is important now it's great that we do have collaboration and we agree But yeah, we don't ever we don't want all five five votes on everything. That would be probably a misrepresentation of what the city wants. So just be careful not to do that. I imagine your community isn't always all on the same side either, right? That would as representatives of your community that would be normal. I think it's a great point, but the majority of what we vote on other than maybe some cont contentious items is cut and dry and you really have to vote for it's so I'm trying to think of a resolution last night. The boots and the changing the typos why would you vote against that? you know, I mean, we we came to an agreement on changing the dollar amount and when you can and yeah, sort of why there are things that are going to be consensus. So, and there was good collaboration going into that. So, I think that's part of where the consensus would come from is the good discussion we had prior for residents to say because we agree we're wrong that they they're not looking at the big picture. they're not understanding what's in front of us and what it is we're voting on. Um there was an example. Yeah. But I mean so so there's nothing wrong with consensus, you know. Um but there will be times that there aren't. Yeah. There there is a tension. Well, and a lot of the things that we have had consensus on, we've like almost negotiated in meetings like Natalie's uh pay raise or the boots. I mean that was sort of a silly issue but I mean it was negotiated in the meeting and that's why we all voted 50 you know and so I think it's I don't know maybe a sign of collaboration trust and I just want to share an observation and experience that you know from from my point of view you know getting hired here was a challenge um in in of itself um I honestly didn't think I was going to be even offered a job and then once offered it was kind you can start um the position and you know coming into a new council and what I went through to get through the hiring process um you all have done an absolutely amazing job of collaborating with each other and and kind of getting into a cohesive unit. You don't all agree on everything but you actually sit and listen to each other and and taking the facts and and whatnot. So that that's just an observation from myself on the outside. appreciate that. Yeah. Um and and you know, you all should be commended for for kind of what you started with and where you've gotten to this point. So, appreciate the onsite perspective. So, we need to cut that little segment and so we can play it Monday night. Yeah. I mean, we do have some difficult decisions to come up. Yeah. Going to be coming our way. um and to be able to talk about it more openly to figure out what is the best thing to do. You know, obviously it's your decision as to what it will be. Now, I have invited Lori to be at the meeting on Monday as well so that she can explain the financial consequences of some of the decisions as we go into budgeting season. Um it would be better to be proactive. Do you have a public comment period that works for you as a council? The public forum. Public forum. However you do that. Cool. We learned a tough lesson on that. See, I've come after you've already learned your lesson, right? No, that's another It just occurred to me as you were talking. That's another place where sometimes um it could be challenging. Yeah. that they talked about in the email as to whether or not to have a public forum tonight because we kind of made the general consensus that they wanted to have a public forum at every meeting. Sure. And um you had suggested not tonight because we look at the time and place for it, but yeah, not for training. But I wasn't saying that I think public forum is important. It's how you do it and that it's not that you're in agreement that it's not, you know, that you're also able to do your other business. Yeah, just asking. Cool. Um, as staff too as well, I would like to just say it's I would like to thank the ones, you know, you guys that give me the questions ahead of time, whether you call me or um, text me. I try to give all the answers out to everybody so that if we have the same question. Um, you all get the same, you know, you get what the answer is. Um, I do appreciate the questions ahead of time because it just makes it easier um, to get through the meetings if I already know the answer. If you want to ask a question, so it's publicly, you know, I would say go for it. But I love the fact that you've been giving me time um to find the answer or to understand exactly what you were asking. Um like for the one last night, that's great. So I appreciate that very much. What I'll find is the email you sent, Dan, I had two of the same questions. I didn't send the email uh on the on the Monday night. I ended up talking to Natalie on Tuesday, but I read through your email. I'm like, I guess I don't got to answer that one. So, I thought it was very helpful. So, thanks for sending them out. Anything else for training or for group, council member Ryan? Yes, uh motion to adjourn. Is there a second? Second. Let's adjourn the meeting. Thank you. 7:32. Thank you for coming out tonight. Yeah.