Are we live at this point? >> Yep. >> It does feel like we were just here. I just want to say All right. We got everybody. It is 6 o'clock. So, let's rock and roll. All right. So, good morning or good afternoon, good evening. Let's try it that way. It's been a long day already. So today is 18 November at 6:01 and we'll open the meeting starting with the pledge of allegiance [clears throat] to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. [clears throat] >> John, may you do roll call, please? >> Mayor Hib >> here. >> Council member Brian >> here. Council member Glazer >> here. >> Council member Rango, Council Member Clemenson >> here. >> Um financial consultant Laurier. Say here we'll say she's here. And then Bruce K. >> Hi everyone. uh Lieutenant Banger >> here >> and myself Natalie Johnson both call us complete. >> Okay. So before we go into approving the agenda just talking over some of the items that [clears throat] um have changed that we need to address. Uh 4 C there was two date changes. We do have a new form with you on that. Um 4K we need to talk about. My recommendation is it's removed um and it's added to the very end which would make it 9 G. Uh you do have some additional information in your that was just given to you for uh number three for the elers presentation. And then last but not least, there's two additional items for uh in the nine for new business. It would be 9E, it's the retirement and 9F is permission to post the position. Mr. Mayor, >> council member, may >> May I also request that we move 4N to new business for discussion, please? >> 4 M. >> Yes, sir. >> Move to new business. So 4 M would end become >> 9H. Okay. Any other adjustments to the agenda? Anybody like to make a motion? >> Mr. Mayor Council, >> I move the agenda as amended. >> Second. >> Good. Let's move it to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Opposed. Motion carries. Agenda is approved. The next thing we have is a public forum. Miss Johnson, did anybody sign up for a public forum? Yes, representative. >> Sir, will you please state your name and your address? Thank members. Uh, Representative Palani from River and I just want to make contact with the city council and staff and and remind you that this year will be a short session. It's the second year of the bianium. We will not start until February 17th, which is uh six weeks short of the first year of the bianium. So, that being said, if you have any legislative action that you want done, anything that you need, uh something drawn up on, we'll need to get that done sooner than later. And would be best to avoid waiting till um late January to start applying for this. So, if there's some language that you'd like to see drawn up, please let me know now and I can start working with advisor on doing that. I don't know if you're going to be doing any bond requests or anything like that. Um but that as I said needs to be applied for some later. Also keep in mind that uh the state's currently 116 million dollars in the red. Um and that is a trend that has been continuing. Um I don't see that getting any better anytime soon. So this my fancy way of saying we don't have any money. If you have something that you need to be fixed in language or permission, we can do that. But it's going to be a request for more funding probably not something we can help with this stand for any questions. >> Sir, is there any other updates you'd like to share from the legislator uh legislature um that would be news from the NA residents that would be beneficial? >> Uh I know there's a lot of things going on. It's uh as far as relative to now then not really that that I can see coming down the line it would affect us. I've not seen any changes in the plans for metro council. Um I believe that Oak and now then we'll maintain our status. I don't see that changing >> representative. Do you know if there's um any any new updates or word on the um the zoning bill that's been the zoning bills that have been trying to come up for the last couple years regarding lot sizes espec particularly in the metro area and and allowing smaller lots and especially rural communities within the NOA county because that would affect now that >> that's what I was just referring to. I don't see that change. >> That one's probably not going to come up. Okay. >> Yeah. So, that one probably's not that's not probably going to come up. And then the exemptions that that the city of Melon has with that council. >> Yes. >> Okay. Cool. Great. Thank you. >> Any [clears throat] other questions for Representative? >> Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. Thank you very much for coming in and uh giving us an update. That's awesome. You're definitely welcome anytime. All right. Anybody else for public forum? I was supposed to open it. Uh now I'm going to close about public forum. Okay. So we can move on to agenda item number three, the elders presentation. Bruce, uh the floor is yours. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and council members. Bruce Kimmel with Ellers, and I'm pleased to give you a brief overview of today's bond sale that we conducted on behalf of the city. I'll just be referring to a few points in the sale, excuse me, sale day report that I believe Natalie uh handed out u before the meeting. So, the first thing you might notice is that the final par amount of the bonds will be $1,250,000. And that's the number that is also reflected in the award resolution that you will consider after this presentation. Uh you may recall that we uh were authorizing or went out to bid with a little over $1.4 $4 million. But due to the premium bid that was received as part of Baird's winning proposal, and I'll talk more about that in a moment, we were able to reduce the par amount of the bonds by $155,000. So that's why um the PAR amount is lower now. Um, but please know that the funding amounts for the [clears throat] 2024 uh street project, the 25 street project, and the equipment acquisition are all just as they were uh authorized back in October. Moving on to the uh competitive sale results, we did receive six bids on the city's behalf at 10:30 this morning. As I mentioned, BARD was the winning bid with a true interest cost of 2.96%. That's over uh 75 basis points better than what we had projected in our pre-sale report or 75%. You know, we try to be a little bit conservative, i.e. high in our interest rate estimates, but today's performance by the city um really outstripped even our our cushion that we had built into our numbers. you really had an outstanding result and actually all six bids were were quite strong. Uh even the last place bid would have been at 3.14% again as opposed to where we were at in our estimates somewhere around 3.75%. Um I won't go through a whole lot more here on this page. Uh again just wanted to note that we are reducing the bond size and the bonds will be callable in 2034 and thereafter. So any fur uh any remaining bonds could be either paid off or refinanced after February 1 of 2034. Moving on to uh the bid tabulation. Um I just wanted to point out that winning bid from Baird and a syndicate of of many other investment banks. That's what Baird's uh sort of standard operating procedure is, is they work really well with a whole bunch of other banks to put together very aggressive bids on competitive sales like this. And so it wasn't surprising that they were the best uh bid of the six received. [clears throat] I also wanted to note the coupon rates and the yields in the two center columns. You can see that you'll be paying coupons of mostly 5% on this bond issue, but the true yields on the 10 maturities range from 2.6% up to just over 3%. And so as we discussed in October, it's really that differential between the coupon rate and the true yield on those maturities that dictates how much premium beared uh offered in their proposal and that we were able to use to reduce the bond size. And then if you um go down through the next the last of this page and then the next page, you can see how pretty tight um the bidding was for places 2 through six. We also include a couple of pages of final debt schedules. um we'll be giving Lori and Natalie much more detail for each one of these subpurposes so that in paying um debt service and making sure that the assessments are being accounted for the way they should be for the two street projects and all that good stuff. There's there's much much more detail than what we show here. But I did want to just reiterate again even with the smaller bond amount because of that reoffering premium via deposits to the construction fund or rather uh for the street projects really reimbursing the city are exactly where you wanted them to be. And I would note that overall for the entire bond issue um the total debt service will be about $85,000 less than um what we originally estimated. So that's essentially $85,000 less tax levy over the 10-year term of the bond issue. And then finally, mayor and council, I did just want to note the S&P rating. Um, as you were probably aware, uh, S&P affirmed the city's uh, double A+ rating with flying colors and assigned you a staple outlook on that. And, uh, your team did an excellent job. We had Lori, Natalie, and the mayor on the rating call, and they all just did an outstanding job of describing the city's financial management practices, the strength of your um local and regional economy. the fact that you do have just, you know, nice steady demand for um the large uh acreage uh lots that you have to offer in now then, but that you're not going to be blowing up into a big city anytime soon. And really S&P had no qualms or concerns about affirming that double A+. Um, and as you know, that is basically the second best rating you can possibly have with AAA being the the very highest. And so for a relatively small community, especially a small community with, you know, limited commercial tax base, having that double A+ rating is really outstanding. And and congratulations to all of you on the council and to your staff on that affirmation. So, with that, I would welcome any questions you have, mayor and council, about the bond sale process, um, the bids received, the final debt service schedules, or the rating. Um, and if you don't have any questions or after we answer questions, then I would invite you to take up the resolution um, from your bond council, and that is officially awarding the bonds um, as they've been resized to Baird and proceeding to closing. So, with that, I'll stand for any questions. >> Hey, council members have questions for Bruce or Mr. Mayor. >> Council member Spencer, go ahead, please. >> Um, I just have a curiosity question. This is more about um the process. You know, I I've not been through a bond sale like this, but it sounds from the way that you guys are talking about it like you didn't expect it to be this competitive with as many bids as we got. And I'm curious if that is reflective of the creditworthiness of our city or if it's more reflective of the state or the economy that a bond seems like a an investment to compete over. I guess I'm asking that because if we carry that double A rating or even AAA rating, you know, into the future when we bond, can we expect similar rates or is it is it more to do with the economy? >> Yeah, great question, council member. Um, it's a little bit of everything. We're seeing a fair amount of volatility in the markets these days um in terms of how many bids a a a given uh issuer will receive. And if you had just asked me to predict, I I would not have as I would not have predicted six very strong bids here despite the city's very strong credit rating just because um it's really been variable and I think there's a lot of investors and and and bankers that are trying to figure out what the right rate assumptions are for the future given, you know, uncertainty with the Federal Reserve and and with the overall economy. me for sure though your your A+ rating was a big help. Um I think that if you had had a you know double A minus rating which would have been two notches lower or an A rating um which is still you know investment grade there's nothing wrong with an A rating um and then trying to sell a relatively small bond issue like this one I I don't think you would have had as many aggressive bids as you received. So, um, you know, the fact that you had again a relatively small bond issue didn't seem to hurt you in today's market and and I would have to chalk that up to your credit rating. Now, in terms of, you know, future bond issues, whether it's two years from now or whenever, um, you know, of course, there's bigger factors at play in deciding what the mark in in that the market uses to decide what interest rates they want. Um we do expect rates to generally stay stable or to decline um over the near term again because of worries about the economy and and overall growth. Um but there's other factors in the world that could cause interest rates to go up too, right? Um so it's it's pretty hard to predict. Uh that said, I I would say that even with the increase in rates that we saw over the last year or two, bond rates didn't go up as much as some other lending rates did, like for commercial loans or or residential loans. And that's because there's this inherent imbalance of supply and demand. There's more demand for MUN bonds than there is supply. So there's always going to be more people looking to buy these bonds than there are new bonds being sold and and that benefits cities like now then, right? Because uh you get to take advantage of that relative um imbalance and and that helps to keep interest rates down as well. So that was a long answer, but hopefully that gave you some context into what was going on in the market. >> Thank you. [clears throat] >> Bruce, I do have one question. That's uh I know we've got a very good rating of double A plus, but uh what does it take to get to AAA plus? What should we be doing? >> Uh to AAA, uh it's really not feasible for the city of now then to um get a AAA. you're you're doing everything you possibly can really within reason um to um to hold on to and stabilize and and really enhance that double A+ and and uh S&P changed its methodology a few years ago to basically make it impossible for small communities like now then to have a AAA. Um, it's I guess maybe not impossible, but you would have to up your reserve levels to insane levels that wouldn't make sense in order to even have a chance. And I would never recommend that you do that. You know, I think you're doing things right as it is and um and you're served very well with this double A plus rating. >> Thank you, sir. Is there any other questions for Bruce? [cough] Hearing none. Would somebody make a motion for the resolution? >> Mr. Mayor Rainbow. Um I I approve I move that we approve resolution awarding the sale general general obligation bond series 25 2025A in the original the principal amount of $1,250,000 fixing their forms and specifications directing their execution and delivery and providing for their payment. I'll second the motion. Is there any discussion? >> Mr. Mayor, >> Councilman Rainbow, I >> I just thank you the staff for doing all this. It's a lot of work. So, thank you. >> Okay, we'll move to vote. Uh, all those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Oppos? >> Okay, you got one day. Motion carries. >> And Mr. Mayor, if I can just say one last thing uh before I go. it it you know I don't get to work with the city of Nan that often but this was a a great experience and you really do have an awesome tag team with Lori and Natalie. Um I I work with some other communities that have contract financial officers and let me just say that they're not usually as responsive and as honored as Lori is. So um it's really been a pleasure working with her and with Natalie and all of you. So uh thank you very much for for the opportunity. Thank you, Bruce. Thanks for the very nice comments. >> Okay, moving to the consent agenda. Mr. >> May, make a motion to approve the consent agenda as amended. >> Second. Got a second. Any discussion? >> No. And move to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. [clears throat] >> Opposed. Motion carries. Consent agenda as amended. All right. We'll move on to number five, which is engineering. So, we got Shane Nelson on. If you take the lead, please. >> Uh, thank you, Mr. Mayor. This first item is a resolution for acceptance and release of the letter of credit for the Nalden pastures development. Uh so the nail pastures development was a little bit unique and really the only improvements was uh establishing vegetation and then also demarcating the edge of the wetland buffers as required by city ordinances and upper Rum River wershed rules. Uh so with that we are I I visited the site. Uh the signs are up. There's there's uh turf is established. So we would recommend that the city accept this and release a letter of credit at this time. And I just want to point out that the development agreement did originally uh include a provision kind of the city's standard provision for a two-year warranty period. Uh which if the city approves this resolution as written, uh the city would be waving that because we really don't have any permanent infrastructure. Uh and therefore, uh the 2-year warranty period is really not necessary. We have any questions for Shane on this requested council action? >> Mr. Mayor Council, >> if there are no other questions, I'll make a motion to approve the resolution releasing the financial security for mountain pastures. >> Second. Have a second. Any other discussion? Hearing none, we'll move to vote. All those in favor say I. I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. All right, Shane, back to you. >> Uh, Mr. Mayor, this next item is an annual opportunity for the public to comment on the adequacy of our SWIP. Uh, so this is just uh really a formality. Uh, at this time, I'd ask that you just open it up to the public. If there's anybody that uh wishes to speak on our storm water pollution prevention program, uh we just uh listen and take notes. If nobody uh speaks about our storm water pollution prevention program, uh we just move on to the next item. >> All right. So, we'll move to open forum for the storm water pollution prevention program. Would anybody like to speak on that? Hearing none, we will [clears throat] close the open forum. >> Okay. Thank you, uh Mr. Mayor and and Natalie, if you could just uh note in the minutes that nobody spoke on that item and that will fulfill our uh requirement for this year for that item. Uh now this this next item is a little bit uh more interesting. So uh this item is for approving a uh the submitt of a MS4 petition for re-evaluation. Uh so kind of the the short story is that uh Burns Township was originally pulled into the MS4 program because we were defined as an urban area in the 2010 census. Uh the the census, as you know, was redone in in 2020. uh and they uh new maps were were made available by the US Census Bureau uh in which the city of now then is no longer defined as an urban area. And and just for point of clarification, previously we just had just along Rogers Lake, we had one little strip along Rogers Lake which was defined as an urban area which kind of pulled the whole city into this program. Um, so now with the with the updated census, uh, we are no longer a city of 5,000 or more or defined as an urban area with the, uh, as defined by the US Census Bureau. So, we may be eligible for deregulation under the program. Uh Dwayne Duncinson, the storm water supervisor, actually called me and and kind of went over this uh with me that the uh MPCA has created their own form uh which is attached in the council's packet. Um and it basically states the reasons that we're requesting this uh deregulation. Uh so from my perspective, there's really no downside in submitting this deregulation form. uh if if we're successful, uh the uh the benefit is that we no longer have the ongoing cost associated with the storm water program or we're no longer mandated to do them. And the city can always choose if you if you're there's some components of your stormwater program that you want to continue, you can always, you know, do that by free will instead of by mandate. Um so with that, I guess I'll I'll stand for questions. Uh but our recommendation is uh the city council approve submitt of this form. Uh Mr. Mayor, that would require your signature. Uh and then this form would be sent to the MPCA. We think it's going to be about a 60-day process for them to review. They might do like a public notice uh and then we anticipate hearing from them uh sometime within the next couple of months. >> So anybody from the council have questions for Mr. Nelson? >> Mr. Council Rainbow. >> I do to to Shane. So, if we're successful in this, how does it relate to us as far as any reduction in expenses associated with the MS4 permit? >> Yeah. So, the MS4 permit or the program costs roughly $20,000 per year. So, uh potentially reduce expenses by $20,000 per year. Now, the city may want to continue doing some of those things like uh you know, doing some annual pond inspections, some annual storm sewer inspections. Uh so, you may want to continue with certain certain components of your program. Uh you just won't be required to do all of them. >> Thank you. >> Shane, can you come back with a recommendation on what you believe would make sense for us to continue and then we can talk about what those costs would be? I think that would be helpful. Yeah, absolutely, Mr. Mayor. Uh assuming we're successful, I think that would be the next step. Uh if we receive that notice from uh the MPCA saying that we are released from the permit program, then we could then talk to the city or talk to the council about what we believe or what what we think you might want to consider uh moving forward. We we still think permitting programs and permitting processes are important. Um, but we could certainly uh talk about uh changes that would make it more streamlined uh less burdensome on your residents and uh quite frankly just uh less paperwork uh that's currently required. >> I think that would be great. Is there any other questions for Mos? [cough] I guess I am I correct in assuming that until we hear differently um that we've been accepted, we will continue with what we're doing and not wait to hear and then have to backtrack. >> Correct. We're doing nothing until we'll be happy to hear from um from Shane on this for application for reevaluation. >> Mr. Mayor, >> go ahead. Um Shane, I did have a couple questions on that from some other people about the Boss Street project and whether or not this could affect that >> and if you could hear back before they start construction, will that change some of the >> costs for the storm waters on Ball Street? >> Uh I don't know if it will cost or if it will change um I I don't know that we're going to be able to move that quickly. Uh we still have ordinances that are that require certain things under the MS4 program. I don't anticipate, you know, after we hear back from the MPCA, uh we may consider revising our ordinance requirements. Uh but that that's not occurred yet. So I don't know that uh you know, at this point in time, our regulations are still the same. So I'm hearing no impact at this point. >> Yeah. Really I think the only as it relates to boss read I think the only thing that might um you know potentially go away would be our requirement to do uh the annual pond inspections. Um and that's you know that's just kind of an ongoing cost. It's not related to um the construction costs. Is there any other questions for Mr. Nelson on the MS4 petition? Mr. Mayor, council members, I move to approve the submission of the MS board petition for re-evaluation. We'll second your motion. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, let's move to vote. All those in favor say I. I. >> I. Opposed. Motion carries. >> Thank you, Mr. Nelson. >> Thank you. Okay, we'll move on to the fire department. Uh chief is not able to join us tonight. He's got a conflict. Um so I'll just give you the overview. Total of 21 calls for fire. Uh you can see most of the other ones were all medical related. Um in October, the department concentrated skills training for forcible entry with power equipment and ventilation. These skills allow uh the fire department to enter a residential building, industrial areas, and agricultural structures where keys are not readily available. And time is of the essence to mitigate any issues. They also completed final uh training burn and completed the burndown of the house on 81st Avenue with successful training provided opportunities for the firefighter personnel and mutual aid partners in the area. They also interviewed firefighter candidates for the fall hiring program. [clears throat] So, they're still in process of that. They've moved several candidates into the evaluation portion, which is great news. uh they've uh sign they've had they now their fire department has significantly uh reduced the calls from the bar none facility um in the last 6 months and they're averaging 4.5 calls per month. This is in comparison to 2.2 calls in the second half so far. So now they're at 2.2 calls. This way that is a little fine. Okay, any questions on the chief's uh chief's update? [clears throat] Okay, next thing is that was a monthly report talking about um and Lori, I'm going to lean on you a little bit on this just talking about it. So, it's the increased benefit level for the statewide volunteer firefighter plan. Um do you want to are you up to speed on this, Miss Jagger? >> Um yes, I am. So the the PAR sends out a uh report on where cities are regarding what their balance is in the in the PAR fund that they have and currently the PAR fund for the city of now then is um overfunded. So, and you're you will get you will continue to get state aid every year. And um it's overfunded because the the benefit that the firefighters get is lower than a lot of the other um cities that are are in the PAR plan. And so by increasing their benefit in the future, you it will allow you um easier access or easier ability to recruit firefighters by by giving them a better better benefit. And um it it's just a a nice way for recruiting and you have plenty of funds in there to cover an increase in the benefit that that the chief is recommending. So you won't have to continue you won't have to contribute any more than you're already contributing which is $7,000 and you will continue to have a surplus in that fund into the future. And just one question I had and I did ask the chief I says what what does it cost to now then he said it's no additional cost but um what do we currently um donate per firefighter to uh from the city of NA from the NAN funds whether it's general fund or if it's budgeted what is that amount you know >> it's uh $7,000 is what the city contributes to that fund >> per it's not per firefighter it's just a flat flat amount Okay. >> And it's going to stay at $7,000 even with this increase. [clears throat] >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Mr. Mayor Council Swanson, >> if we didn't do anything and the surplus continued to grow and just sit there in our PAR fund, what would happen? Would we potentially get a reimbursement of that as a city? >> No. No. it just it would stay in the parap fund um and it would continue to accumulate unless you know they have you know it's always it's market driven so they do invest investing and so forth for um their members and um but but their bene the benefit that is paid out would would not change and I think you would have a harder time recruiting firefighters with such a low benefit by increasing the benefit you're going to you're going to get some better responses in the future. >> And you've reviewed our our funding level and you're confident that raising it by that amount is not going to >> put us in trouble future. >> Yep. I'm very confident. It looks really good. >> I mean, it it's it's a very high percentage. I don't have it right in front of me. Um but I can certainly pull it up while while you move on and then let you know how overfunded you are. >> Mer can one more question. I know the number of firefighters we have is pretty low right now. Um, and I'm very much in support of the fire department, but what if the number of uh we get to our maximum level of firefighters. Does that start costing the city more at that point? So, right now, say we have 12, but we're allocated up to 25. Does that change substantially if we go to the 25 people? >> Right. um you know you have the you have the capacity in the PAR fund to support 25 firefighters at the higher benefit level. >> That's the piece that I was missing from reading this. >> All right. Any other questions for >> Mr. Mayor? Um, if there is no other discussion, um, I would make a motion to increase the benefit level through the statewide volunteer firefighter plan by approving resolution 2025 option to increase the benefit level for firefighters who are vested in statewide volunteer firefighter plan. >> Second. >> I think you could have a lot of seconds on that one. I don't know who got it first, but somebody seconded. Okay. Any other discussion? >> Hearing none. All right. Let's move to vote. All those in favor say I. I. >> I. Opposed. Motion carries. unan unanimously. All right, perfect. Thank you for the explanation on it. All right, so the next one is a resolution approving to purchase Paritech Rescue Tools from McQueen. Anybody know what page that one's on? 104. Okay, so this is the one that Chief had talked about. He's got the item budgeted. he would be telling us if he was here. On page 104, it's just under $20,000. Um, it's got the updated quote on it. And page 107 is a resolution. We want any discussion on this. >> Mr. Council member, >> uh, probably a question for Clerk Johnson. So, we're saying we're purchasing the, um, the equipment for, you know, 1998790. Is that considered the capital outlay on the general fund for the fire department? >> I believe Lori and I we were taking it out of firefighter, right? >> Yeah. Well, this is the fire department. >> Well, I know. I'm sorry. The fire department. We were taking out of fire department and the siren we were taking out of capital. >> It So, m Mr. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, um I'll clarify that it's the the um siren, it comes out of general government in the in the general fund and the uh firefighter um equipment comes out of the fire fund in the general fund. >> Okay. So, we're talking right now the tech rescue tools. It's coming out of fire fund and that's where I remember chief. >> Yes, that is in the >> answer your question. No, it does not. I'm just trying to understand. Was there some other capital outlay for four $4,000? I'm just trying to >> that already occurred this year. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, there's something else. >> Yes, there is. There's $3,400 in there, I believe. Or 30. >> Okay. >> Yes. Yep. >> So, then we're going to be over budget on the fire department for 25. >> That is correct. by $6,000ish dollars. >> That is correct. >> So, Mr. Mayor, members of the council, when we look at budget, we look at not only department level budgeting, but we also look at total general fund. And your total general fund is about $100,000 under budget in 2025. Um, so we have the ability to to to move money. You also have a $10,000 contingency budget that you have not used in 2025. And so you're you have the ability to move that I'll come with a resolution moving budget from um budgets that are under to budgets that are slightly over. So I would I would move $6,000 into the fire fund to cover that additional uh expense. and you would still be under budget totally for the entire um general fund. You have more questions for that's good for now. There any other questions? >> Mr. Mayor Council Rainbow >> and I would just say to what Cory said is that that is something we've done before at the end of the year when this one's a little bit shorter. We grab from here and it will still be short. >> I understand that. I'm just trying to understand when we're looking at one thing and it's saying it's coming out of the fire fund balance, but it's also coming out of somewhere else. >> That isn't explained anywhere. So, I'm just trying to clarify. So, I'm so it's >> so so the numbers match up. >> I understand that. Yeah, >> we're not doing anything different as far as at the end of the year and moving from one >> a little early, but we're also take I'm I'm going off of the documentation that says there's enough balance to cover it. It's not. >> So, >> I'm not aware of that. Just bring that up because I didn't read that. >> Okay. Any other discussion? Anyone like to make a motion? >> Mr. Mayor, >> Council Member Bryant. >> Make a motion to approve the resolution to purchase the Paritech Rescue Tools. >> Second. >> Second from Council Rainbow. Any other further discussion for the vote? Hearing none, it's no forward with the vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. I posted motion carries. Okay, that takes care of that one. Next one is that page 108. Miss Johnson, you want to explain this one? I know Chief did talk to me about it. >> He did. And after we were doing some of the numbers and we're talking with Lori is what we would do is purchase a siren this year, but the electric because we're getting so late into the year, um the install would happen next year in 2026. >> [clears throat] >> And it would come from general government, not the fire department. Because we kind of determined it's a general government item. It really isn't a fire department item. >> Public safety, not a fire. >> Correct. >> So just clarification on the siren itself is 14,925 and then the installation is 25,000. >> Correct. >> So and this is a question for Miss Jagger and Miss Johnson. So, if we purchase the item, yes, that can go through with funding this year. But if the installation's not going to take place until next year, how does funding roll from one year to the next? If it's, you know, we're saying, "Hey, we're going to pay for this, but it's not paid for. We we'd actually pay for the installation 2026." Can you guys describe how that works on the city side? I do not know. >> Uh, Mr. Mayor, members of the council, it's so it would be a new budget item in 2026. And so um I've amended the the 2026 the the 2026 budget to include that capital expenditure in 2026. The other option instead of paying it out of the general fund would be to pay it out of your capital improvement fund which you have funds available there since it is more of a a capital improvement than just a general fund improvement. So, it's a it's an item that we can discuss um next week and you can decide at that point where you want to pay for it, but it would not roll over. There would be no roll over of any funding from 2025 to 2026. It would be a new item. >> In this case, we would be purchasing a $15,000 cyber and doing the install next year. So, we're paying 15,000 this year and you'll be paying 25,000 next year. That's correct. >> Piece I was missing out. >> Mr. Mayor Council, uh, so the first question I have, is this in addition to the siren that you all wanted to budget for in 2026? Is this a second siren or is this the new siren that you're budgeting for? >> I believe that it was this the siren that you guys had talked about. I think I wasn't at that meeting. um and that he was told to try to figure out money in his budget to be able to do it. And then after talking to Lori and Shim, her telling us that we didn't really need to take it out of the fire department, we were able to find this one. I think um when we met Mr. mayor. He said the city is supposed to have about six is what the report said and that had to change from the last one, but it's going to take us time to be able to install those and find the locations that we can actually put them where it'll affect people. >> So, this report that keeps getting talked about is I haven't seen this report. Is this is this an updated report that's provided to us by the manufacturer that does the desk predel studies? It is the same report and he went through it with them and they said that report was still relevant. So I haven't >> I think it's a report that's a couple years older. I've not seen either just from what chief said it's there's not anything there's something from two I'll say two years ago. My number could be off. >> I think it's I think it was like 2018. >> So 2018 or not >> but they weren't going to update it at that point. >> Mr. post member. >> Uh, something that I'd like to point out is that the discussion in the discussions where we were asking questions of the chief in regards to what the current cost of installing emergency weather sirens is, this is this is 33% more than what we were told at we were told approximately 30,000. This is going to be $40,000. Um, I'm curious as to why the site of Twin Lakes Park has been chosen when it's um less than it's I think it's 2.2 two or just over two miles from um the the fire station and we have um other areas that if we're truly underserved with emergency weather sirens that are further from um city center and uh again I guess I'm going to pound on this is have have we reached out to the county in regards to their digital services that they provided um to see if that's an alternative to spending $40,000 for a lender Mer, >> go ahead, M. >> Uh, we are and we just, I believe, got hooked up with the county yesterday, yesterday or this morning. I don't recall. It'll be in your Friday update and they're asking us what items we want to go out and our residents will be able to hook up to a digital um response to their phones. And again, that's like brand new. We are working on it yesterday. >> So, so I here, Mr. May, I have another question then. So, I'm I'm assuming that while there could be a fluke weather incident in the winter time where um an emergency weather siren was admitted, I don't my to my knowledge, I've only experienced true weather indications with sirens in the, you know, spring, summer, maybe very early fall. Would this be something better to wait on and table and see what what the um the county has to offer and what the response from residences before spending the $4,000. >> Okay. Go ahead, Council Swanson. >> Yeah, I I was wondering the same thing today because I remember we had quite a discussion about the emergency phones or the you know relying on that and I actually I read a few articles that referenced a few studies. I didn't read the studies, but they talked about how um without multiple or sirens are uh weather warnings are more effective if you have more than one. And so if you just had it go off on your phone, you're not necessarily going to run for the basement, but if you hear the siren too, you're far more likely to go into the basement. And one of the articles was referencing that giant tornado that went through Japan 15 years ago, 10 years ago. And how many of the uh they found Well, the article said they found people holding their cell phones and they didn't go to the basement. They're just like running around with their cell phones or something. So, I I think it would be good to look into the the emergency thing through in Oak County. I think we should do that, but I don't think that relieves us of the need of a siren because I think the two together is more effective in warning people into the basement. So just add on that's what Chief's comment was. It's the redundancy. It's multiple years. It's not a one specific item when we look at public safety. I want to go back to your question. Um you asked a question. Is this the same one? I I think we got I don't know that it's the same one or if it's a different one. I think Chief said this was an additional one is what he told me. >> Okay. I may have misunderstood. So I I think that your question is very valid and yes I'm going to say that I chief told me because I asked the same question is this the same one or is this an additional one? He said well we can do one this year because we have the funding available which which I'm learning that funding is available if we ship it around the budget. Um but it was not the same one in the budget in 2026. So I need to clarify that point. That's what chief told me. Miss Council Ringle >> to to council member Glazer's question about why Twin Lakes. I asked that of Natalie if we own Twin Lakes in order to put a siren [cough] any other location. And now then we are going to have to get permission from land owners which means contracts, rental just like the the um cell tower that we rent our property to for to sell your we would have to get that approval from wherever we would put it other than on property. Our only property is >> there was more to that I would add to that. So one it was we own the property two you can put electrical there and three it was the other greatest area where people would come and be was the third >> yeah that summer tornado and >> again that's what you share >> and [clears throat] to add to that Mr. there. I believe it was the the the siren here hits the park, hits for Heritage, hits for all the softball games and all the stuff that goes on on Wednesday nights. It also hits the rushing show. And that was part of the discussion as Twin Lakes gets the most population um of residents and others that wouldn't necessarily hear it on their phone if they were in the water or in a boat or can I go back to what counc uh Miss Jagger is there another one in the budget for next year? [cough and clears throat] Can you clarify council member Glazer's question? >> Right. No, not at this time. I I misunderstood. I thought that this was the same siren that we were discussing. So I I excluded the other one in the [cough] budget. >> Thank you for the clarification. So we're talking one siren. That's what we've been talking about. So I think it would be unfair to come up and say, "Hey, this is a second." So your clarifying question is good. Thank you for your question. Other discussion items, >> Mr. Mayor. >> Council member Ryan. I just if if we're going to go out through the process of purchasing a siren, I don't think the best answer is, well, we're just going to put it on city property because because it doesn't cost us anything in the in and electrical and and have the land and all that kind of thing. I I just would have a feeling that there potentially would be a better place much further east and north than Twin Lakes Park where in theory it would cover Twin Lakes as well as more of the northeast part of the city. And so I just don't think that um it's worth uh worth um it would be worth investigating where is the better the best place the best place for a sire not necessarily the most convenient Um and um certainly it would be yeah I haven't seen that study either. So if there is that study it' be good to get copies of it to go where is it recommended to put that to put that other siren to put the other sirens because you know even I hear the siren from here at my at my place. So that's what >> in the resolution does it state where it's going? >> No, Mr. Mayor it actually states it on the uh the quote from right >> from ready. That was the only place that >> if you look at the resolution the way it's written, it's not indicating location. So here's here what I would like to do. One, I would like to move over the the resolution not specifying the location and the location to be so then we can review the study. We can ask Chief that question. I'm I'm not the expert on it. So I I think your questions are >> also Mr. Mayor. um if we're looking at um using um excess funds um I would rather have this discussion when we talk about the budget not just have it be you know so we can go through the budget in general to go okay what are we what is the best place to to use the excess funds whether regardless of how much how much the amount is is it is it in the siren or is it to where we talked about for reducing the levy or funding turnout here or whatever other things >> can ask Merger that question so Mer If you were to take that same question and say, "Hey, right now we're looking at same purchasing this year and taking it out of the budget for 2026 cuz well, you'd have to put 25,000 in the budget. Does it matter if we do it now or should we look at waiting and put it in the budget and purchase it in February? Does it matter?" >> So, Mr. Mayor, members of the council, currently I'm projecting that you'll still you're still going to use with with this $14,000 um purchase, you would still be using about $20,000 of fund balance in 2025. You did budget to use $71,000. So, you're under budget overall, but unfortunately, your your revenues are not as as high as they were anticipated to be. Um so even though your expenditures are under budget, your revenues are also under budget. So your net is that you would still be using um fund balance in 2025 regardless. And so it wouldn't matter if you move this to 26 cuz you would if we budget it in 26, you'd still be using the fund balance to pay for this. >> Mr. Mayor, >> it just seems that there is going to be a surplus of funds where we wouldn't necessarily have to use fund balance that it'd be worth having a discussion um when we're talking about budgeting not just kind of putting this together in one one line item so we determine >> if there's a surplus of $100,000 or whatever the exact amount is is it are we going to use fund balance do we spend it on the siren so we don't have to use fund balance do we offset the fund balance do we split it up there's a a lot of discussions that can happen around that instead of instead of trying to figure all this out tonight. [clears throat and cough] >> Miss Jagger's explanation to >> Mr. Mayor, members of the council, it's we're we do not have a surplus of $100,000. It's that the the money that you budgeted, you are under your budget for expenditures, but at the same time, you are under budget for revenues. And so, you are still using fund balance, which you did plan on doing in 2025. Now without this expense, you just use less fund balance in 2025. So my recommendation is frankly to budget look at it like you say for a budget item and and in 2026 and determine maybe paying for it out of capital funds or or using fund balance in 2026 to to to pay for it. >> House M. Jerger, could would you please quantify the shortfall of revenue um from resident taxes? Uh so and my projection right now is that the you budgeted to have um let's see $2,393,000 in revenue and you are only getting 2,330. So you're under budget by $40,000 in revenue. 63,000 correct. >> I I thought 60 60,000 I'm sorry 60,000. Yes. >> But you are also under budget. >> Is it 63? Is that what it was? >> It's 29 2,ion393 versus 2,331. And and again, this is just a projection. And I know it's a pretty good projection because it's at, you know, in November that we're making this projection, but it is still a projection. So, this is not guaranteed. Um, but it's about $60,000 that you're under the budget for revenue, but you're under budget by um $120,000 in expenditures. >> Though, it's a net of 38,000. Right. >> But you're spending 2 million. >> Your shortfall is because you're you're spending more than you're you're getting in. You're spending 2,351. So you're spending $20,000 more than you planned on than you than your revenue has. Even though in 2025 you budgeted to spend $72,000. So, you're actually under the net budget by $52,000. Well, now we're just talking budget here. So, but you are going to use $20,000 in fund balance if you buy this siren. If you don't, then you'll use well $5,000 or $14,000 less. And if that's not confusing enough, [laughter] But this is a better thing to discuss like you say during our budget process. It's not about you know you can buy it when if you want to buy it you know buy it because you have the budget to do it but you can also do it in 26. It's totally up to you. >> And Mr. Mayor >> we don't have to make this decision tonight. We we have six more weeks of 2025 if you really want to do it after we get a better handle on where we are from a budget. Okay. shelf and tell Chief comes in so we can talk about location. >> I was just going to make a motion at table. >> I second. >> Okay. [laughter] >> Say I. >> I. Okay. Table done. Too many questions when Chief's not here. >> Yes. >> All right. We're going to move on. Sheriff's Department. Sir, will you come up and give us the monthly report? I sure will. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the council and city staff, the following is the sheriff's office report for the month of October 2025. Deputies responded to 134 calls for service. Of those calls, nine to bar none, four alarm calls, 15 medicals, and 12 animal calls. We'll do the reader digest version of the bar none calls as it seems to be pretty much the same thing every month, but those numbers have remained steady. So, uh, on the fifth, Runaway Juvenile Call. On the 6th, a phone call threat report from a staff member. On the 9th, two disorderly juveniles. On the 12th, more juvenile runaways. On the 15th, a mental health call. On the 20th, another disorderly call where one was arrested for fifth degree assault and another was cited for disorderly conduct. On the 25th, another disorderly call. On this one, one juvenile was transported on a hold. Another was charged with fifth degree assault, disorderly conduct, fourth degree damage to property, and mistreatment of an animal. Might be curious on that one. Uh she threw a lizard at a staff member. >> Tried to use a lizard as a weapon. On the 27th, a phone call report for assault between two juveniles. Uh for that one, one was charged with fifth degree assault. And on Halloween, a mental health call. Moving on to other calls for service around now. On the 11th in the 18900 block and now boulevard, deputies responded for an intoxicated female having a mental health crisis. Deputies had responded there multiple times over a short period of time. Uh the female was eventually transported to the hospital by ambulance on emergency hold. On the 12th, deputy responded for a single vehicle crash that had damaged public property and a driver had left the scene. The deputy was able to verify who the driver was and cited him for leaving the scene of the crash. On the 18th in the 8300 block of Viking, deputies responded for multiple burglary reports at the storage unit. Uh several units were burglarized there. Um there's no suspects at this time, but it remains under investigation. On the 24th in the 5900 block of Norris Lake Road, deputies responded for a single vehicle crash where the vehicle was partially submerged in a swamp. Deputies were able to assist the driver and passenger to safety. They were both transported to the hospital by ambulance for evaluation and the driver was ultimately charged for criminal vehicle operation and child endangerment due to her driving conduct. On the 26th that Viking and BA deputy located a vehicle that was stolen out of our county, uh the deputies performed a high-risisk stop on that vehicle and took the female driver into custody without incident. That female was turned over to Anoka PD, which is where the vehicle was stolen out of for charging. Uh, one other note, there's been a large amount of suicidal deer on the roads. So, be sure to be on the lookout for that. Should you encounter a suicidal deer, hit the brakes, don't swerve in oncoming traffic. We do have a handful of those all the time. People swerving to miss those. >> Is there a health for such deer? >> Right there. Hopefully deer season got the numbers where they're supposed to be. With that, I can say it for any questions. [clears throat] >> No, we appreciate you uh sir. Thanks for taking care of us and keep listening suicidal. >> All right, Miss Johnson, you're up. Quick updates. >> Okay, I just have the report. I've um finished most of the evaluations. I've got three left to do. Um the population signs have gotten um updated by or will be getting updated by Anoka County if they have not already with the correct population. They will not put our logo on it because it's a county line. >> So, but at least they've agreed to go out and fix the population numbers. >> Thank you for working on that. >> Uh yep, that was I put Gilly on that project. So, she was able to get that. Um the 2026 cola overtime policy and leave policy. All of that documentation was emailed to you guys on Friday for your review and then we'll be discussing it on the 28th with Lori um when we're talking about the budget and city security systems and access um after we found out that our security system on our wall is like too old for them to even like get into to program um I was aware or write kind of been brought to my attention that we can get a system where we can actually program like Airbnbs where you can say, "Okay, well, um, Mr. Glaver, you can have the code access to the historic town hall from noon until 4:00." It will unlock at noon and it will lock at 4:00. It will reduce the time of having to give all the keys out for many different places, the shelters, um, even like the baseball stuff that we could do. Um, I do have a quote that we're working on and I'm probably not going to do all of it at once, but I will tell you we looked at the master key earlier. Um, I can't remember if it's earlier this year or last year, but the cost was exorbitant to try to get a master key so we didn't have to have so many keys. Um, this definitely seems like a much better option and um, a bit more cost effective. So, it is something that I will hopefully have numbers for a um capital improvement when we talk with Lori on the 28th. I'm hoping to have it all finished by then. Um I just wanted to make you guys aware that we are doing that, but it's because our system is so old in that building that I'm having [clears throat] trouble um getting new codes in for our new people. Um, one other thing that's not on there that has been an issue last week and again now this week is uh people dumping. And I don't know, Lieutenant, if it's something that you could ask our guys to watch out for. So, you know, today the guys picked up cabinets, blinds, carpet pads, a bathroom sink, some tires um right off the Twin Lake Parkway. They also picked up a fridge that need or I'm sorry, that one needs to get picked up tomorrow because they didn't get to that today. Um, the other thing that they're picking up are dumping of deer carcasses from the hunters that have just dumped them. I don't know if they picked up four, I suppose, in one area today. Um, and it's costing the city. It's our time, it's our equipment, and it's our dumpsters. So basically, I kind of like the residents and we may do a post on Facebook and just say, "Hey, if you're seeing somebody do it, get their license plate number so that we can get it to the sheriff's department because it's costing the city just quite a bit of money and they just seems like they've been doing so much." Um, in one area we even have landscape rock dumped with a bunch of like pond poly in it and they just haven't had a chance to be able to take equipment out there to scoop it up and get it cleaned up. So just making you guys aware of that and maybe any public that is listening if you see or anybody doing it if we could try to get some license plate numbers. >> Yeah, if you have locations certainly pass them along to me. I can have the guys do some extra patrols and try and keep an eye out if it's specific spots that are recurring. >> Yeah, it just seems like it's been a lot lately. Well, there there was one um some furniture jumped in and they right behind my house, >> which you wouldn't think that it didn't seem like a logical place, but I did it. >> Yeah. On that one, I asked, "Does anybody can you look at that dresser to see if it's of any value to anyone? Because we can put it on the free, you know, at least try to get rid of it that way." But people are My mom had a statement. It was trash litters. stress people that do that. It's just >> I would just say if if you see something, say something. That's the biggest thing we can do. Try to make sure residents are are keeping their eyes out >> and we appreciate the extra patrols if you have a any targeted areas that we need to take a look at. >> All right. Thanks, Miss Johnson. We're going on to new business number 9A. >> Mr. Mayor, before we go, >> um, are you really meeting Thanksgiving Friday? >> No, it's Wednesday. I think >> that's the 26th. Oh, the 26. I'm sorry. Just double checking. >> Wednesday. >> We need to look at our >> No, it's the 26th is Wednesday. On here it says the 28th. So, I'm just double checking. >> Yes, it's Wednesday. >> I apologize. >> And are we just looking at right Henipin for security or we talked to Arvid or the >> I was looking the the other the cameras >> IPS. >> Yes. >> No. staff does not recommend that. >> Okay. I'm just curious if looking at anybody looking at anybody else. >> Yeah. Um >> would be worth >> I could look at Yeah, I could look at our big I would I would be all right with that to see what's out there. >> I have another company that that I work with that work. I could recommend them. I do a decent job. I don't know how it costs competitive. >> Yeah, that would be great. >> I just can't remember the name right now. I'll send it to you tomorrow. >> Okay. >> Okay. 98. >> All right. First one is the uh the safety glass for the city office. Miss Johnson, you want to talk? Well, it looks like chief wrote it up, but uh it's also submitted by yourself. You want to touch base on this? >> Yeah, this is um a situation that kind of came up after having a um kind of an upset resident had come into the off into the office and the chief was there and he kind of said, "Where is our safety here?" Um, and we don't really, you know, there really isn't a lot of safety for the front. And with the world being the way that it's been, uh, he suggested we get a copy or I'm sorry, get some quotes to figure out what it would be to get some glass there, maybe reinforce the door, um, just for the safety of it. Um, he also said that he would help do the installation of it, so it saves on some of that. Um, we did get a couple of bids. We did get a third bid with to go with the actual bulletproof glass. Um but that was way out of our budget. So um we would like to go with the 1740 with North Metro glass if um council feels it is necessary. >> Mr. Mayor Council, so just two questions. First one out of curiosity, how much was the ballistic glass? >> Um it was well over 10,000. Um my other question is are the the two quotes that we have from North Metro Glass and JNA Glass um the the spec is different. So JNA glass is is/ inch um tempered glass and north metro is um quarter inch is is quarter inch sufficient as a as a deterrent and I I I guess I would prefer if if we want quarter inch I'd like both contractors to quote the same the same product spec material. >> I prefer half inch to do it. Let's go half inch. So, so my question is, can can we can we table this um with at with the request of finding out what North Metro is going to charge us for um for half inch glass and uh >> Yeah. And yeah, our thoughts were just to deter I I don't think I don't know if is I should ask would a half inch glass do any different than a quarter inch glass with something coming through it? Well, I mean, you're really doing it just for the barrier if you're not getting ballistics. So, >> I mean, it's going to be a little bit harder for someone to smash, but if somebody wants to smash glass, they're going to smash it. So, >> and and maybe it's something that we just kind of hold off on and if we're going to do it, do it right with the ballistic glass later. >> I don't really want to spend 10 grand, but there's polycarbonate um and it's very durable and instead of going with glass, it it doesn't poly >> polycarbonate poly >> like lexan >> yeah it's like lex >> so I think a quote for that might be I don't see it being any more it might be a little bit more don't know but that that doesn't break >> it literally is very very durable >> lieutenant have you seen any of that >> yeah we probably see that more than glass these days I would agree that's probably a better option for what you're talking about >> so lex lex sand is going to be your typical um material that you find in a hockey brace at all. So >> that is a pretty big >> Yeah, but that type of material would be pretty useful for what you're looking for. >> Well, I guess we'll have to do a search for that. Thank you for that because it's >> anything breakable. It's not bulletproof. It's not. Yeah, [laughter] >> we had not here but another office I worked in, we had green cans of green beans come for the glass. >> Green beans. >> Yeah, can be glass. >> They were upset about food drive. >> All right, so we are going to table 98. Everybody good with that? >> Yeah. Mr. Mayor, can I do a request? >> Yes. Could we do um >> the Comcast update so Lori can get off what if she wants? >> Would that be all right? >> K the 4K that we are moving. >> Yeah, which we currently have a 9H. >> Yeah. >> Would that be all right? >> Yes. >> Lori, can you pull up the map for us, please? >> Thank you, sir. Have a good night. Thank you, Lieutenant. [clears throat] >> She's going to pull up the map. So, this one, Nav, you want to touch base on it? >> Yeah. Um, the mayor and I met with uh Comcast for our quarterly meeting. Um, I don't think it's a surprise that, you know, we're still a little bit behind schedule, but they are doing their absolute best to kind of get caught up. Um, Comcast is still a bit behind from the storms and trying to get all the post done. And if you look, there is a ton of work going on and the polls are going up. I mean, there's equipment out there. I saw it after dark even on my way home last night. >> So, I think that they're doing everything they can, but um because it's subsidized, we have to have an extension of our contract. >> As soon as the map comes up, I think that's the important piece because you have a subsidized area to talk about. >> Are you able to find it, Lori? It's right in your packet and it's in the consent agenda. >> Page 72 maybe >> page 72. >> I found the map but there's my sharing is not turned on. >> Oh sharing for this meeting. Okay, now it is there. >> Can you see it? >> Not yet. >> Give you a quick explanation on this. Uh, so we we had the meeting last week with them. They were finishing up the area in red. Uh, projected to finish up by the end of last week. They're setting poles up here in the pink area. Um I think their timeline was the middle of middle to third week of November having it complete and then they were going to shift over to this white area. So the biggest concern was that they probably will get that completed. This is all subsidized here until you hit the area in yellow. Uh and again just as Natalie had mentioned that if you take a look Kexus is working their tail off and getting polls up. Comcast is right behind them stringing it up. The concern is the subsidized area. They've got it projected out. You'd say Arving is in that area, but it's not complete. Not everybody has RVing run to their house. So, it's unsubsidized area. So, it's last on the list. They believe they'll finish this up. I think that the majority of now will all be complete except the sub uh the non-subsidized area. And that's really what this this resolution is about is to approve an extension on it. They're going to continue to work, but if they get through ground freeze and they can't get through it, they're gonna not get through the unsubsidized area this year. [clears throat] Does >> that cover pretty much everything we talked about? >> It pretty much is. I, you know, I just want the public to understand that they are still trying, although we have to we have to do this extension and if they can't get to it, depending upon how long the frost stays in the ground will make it dependent, which is why we've got to go up to six months. >> But they are trying. Yes. And they they do a very good job of of providing a good update. Uh that's a summary of their update. Uh in here in your packet in 69 talks about how many polls are set, how many miles are done. Uh they're working diligently to to continue to add customers and get get all the Now residents complete. But with that, here comes the uh uh it's a request for council action to approve. Well, I'll approve the city now then to execute the broadband development agreement first amendment which is to extend 6 months. >> Mr. Mayor, >> Council Member Ry, >> make a motion to execute the broadband development agreement with um Comcast cable communications um to um well the first amendment for development. >> Second. >> Lots of seconds on this one. Also very important >> who's taking that one so I can get >> I don't need credit. >> Any other discussion on this one? >> Hearing none. Let's move to vote. All those in favor say I. I. >> I. Opposed. Motion carries. >> Okay. That's the part. >> All right. Thanks, Lori. >> Thanks, Mr. Jagger. >> So, the 4K is done. We no longer have a 9H. All right. Moving on to the next one. Uh 9B. which is on page >> 127. >> 127. Thank you. Uh, so this one is submitted by Sue Pon who runs an Alen Heritage Festival. Um, I'm sure you guys have all read this. Is there any questions or any discussions on it? >> Mr. Mayor, >> is this are we asking for a motion or is this just >> We We are asking because it needs to be approved, I believe. Mr. Mayor, >> council, >> what I was looking through is we don't have a resolution either. >> I need a resolution. >> I can have staff create. I just didn't come from Miss >> if it's something that would like >> Can we do the Can we I suppose we got to have a resolution on paper before we do it? >> Well, Mr. Let's say we can make a motion to continue our support for the Heritage Fest next year and if we need a resol we need to make it an actual resolution do that another time. >> Okay. I I I would be good with that. So that will be my motion. >> Second. >> Okay. Done. Any discussion? >> I would like to add one comment. So and I agree with doing this. I think there's a lot of uh volunteer time and it's a great thing for our city. I would like to take where the city booth is right now or was this year and move it much closer to the entryway um and and have us all man the booth so if there's questions so there's access to the council members. I think what we did this year um was a benefit and we had residents come up and talk to us. Not all of us but um but I think that was beneficial. So, if you guys would be okay with that, but it needs to be much closer to where they sell t-shirts. Maybe it's right next door. Something like that. That would be my only recommendation. >> Yes. >> Go ahead. >> I will say that we used to have the booth over there and we got 90% more activity where we were this year >> really >> than we did over by the t-shirt. >> Yeah. When you told me that, I was surprised, but I that's not part of the my that was not part of my responsibility. So, I never tracked that. >> Yeah, it was huge. I talked to more people this year than I had in the first three years I did it. >> All right, that was my request. I'll leave up the booth location to yourself. You determine best location. >> Um, just so we're not stuck in the quarter. >> Yep. >> Okay. Ready for a vote. All those in favor of the support say I. >> I. Opposed. Motion carries. No resolution. All right. Next one up. Council member Glazer, you're up. Um, Mr. Mayor, I I put forth this RCA um as a discussion item pertaining to flying the the state flag at now city offices. was it was brought to my attention in the last let's see I I spent some time um with K clerk Johnson last Wednesday or Thursday um and and asked some questions because it was brought to my attention by a resident that the the flag had changed from um what we're call I guess calling the historical Minnesota flag to the newly adopted Minnesota [clears throat] flag by a state commission and um my first question was um why did we switch and and I was told that um a now then resident uh filed a complaint that we weren't following state law. So the the the first thing I'd like to say in regards to that is the is um by state law city offices are not required to fly this the state flag. It is only a requirement to fly legally at stateowned buildings um offices and for instance state capital. Um the the reason I bring this up is because our new state flag um is a controversial subject. Um there's uh there's a lot of folks in the state of Minnesota that are unhappy about this flag. Um, I did take the time to uh there were two non voting u members from the uh the Republican minority at the time. I spoke to uh one one was out of the country on military service, but I I did speak to both of their um assistants and um I spoke to Rep. Olson's assistant and uh he clearly stated that um that it was very much a partisan effort on the part of the governor. Um the uh uh Senator Duskowsk's um assistant went into greater detail as far as the fact that there was a lot of a uh um conflict within the the commission. Some different of opinions um some opinions that that were uh heard more loudly. Um, and then, um, third, I'd like to say that, uh, I there were a couple of ex posts that, um, of our governor that, uh, pertained to this flag. Um, he referred to our previous flag as being racist. And, um, he also he also very clearly stated that it was the the Democrat majority that pushed this through. It was a it was a a partisan effort. Um so on that note um being the fact that it is not required by state law to to fly the state flag um if we can't be in agreement um if the residents don't get to choose my preference would be that we not fly >> is that is that your request >> that that that's that's my request in this discussion um you know about flying the the state flag, whether it's the whether it's the old historic flag or whether it's the newly adopted flag by the uh the commission that is put together. >> Yeah, I guess my thoughts on it. We only have one state. We don't get a vote on it. You know, they had a commission on it. They voted on it. It was with the state. We have one state flag now. Um either I mean I don't even know what the debate is. It's it's one state flag. We don't get a vote on it. even if if there are hard feelings on it and it was passed, you know, with more votes from one party than the other, it doesn't change the fact that it is still the state flag. And I understand it is not state law that we have to hang that, but I don't see why we would hang something that's not the Minnesota state flag. I I would think either you hang the Minnesota flag or you don't you don't hang the old version of it that's not even the state flag, you know, Mr. Mayor. So his request was to not hang the state. Now what's your request? >> Not hang it. But I I think it's important to point out, council member Swinsson, that there weren't any voting [clears throat] members from the conservative side of the government on the commission appointed by the government. So the the the conservatives in the state of Minnesota had the the you know [clears throat] some of the people that are represented on our flag are sportsmen, farmers, um not just and I I recognize that the indigenous people are are on the flag and there was there was a what I was told by Senator Duskowsk's um assistant is that there was a very small portion of the Dakota nation, the Minnesota Dakota nation that was, you know, speaking out about the the the racial aspect of the flag. There were other uh other indigenous nations that did not share that same opinion. Um so the fact that the commission did not represent the whole of Minnesota is to me is an issue. It was very much a partisan commission. It there there was no part bipartisan opportunity. Mr. Mayor, >> so I have I have a question. Council member Glazer. >> Um, let's say the shoe's on the other foot and Republicans are in charge next year and they re redesign it and there are no Democrats on it. Are we going to stay with the same policy that says because there were no Democrats on it like there were no Republicans on it, we don't fly anything? >> It's not it's not a requirement by law for the city to fly a state flag. So if if we can't agree on the flag as as a council in a city because I think I personally I think the residents should have a say um it's their city. Um we don't need to fly flag hill. We you know we fly the our federal flag um you know we fly the PMI association flag over here underneath the you know the national um banner. Um but >> so I guess I I didn't get answer to my question. That's fine. Um, >> I did answer the question, council member and Bill. I said if we can't agree agree on it regardless of what the flag is, we don't have we shouldn't fly. >> Okay. That wasn't my question. My question was, are you okay with if it's a Republican flag versus a Democratic flag, but you're not okay if it's a Democratic flag and a Republican flag? We are, it's my opinion, we're a nonpartisan body here, and politics shouldn't come into it. But if we can't determine that we would fly the state flag whether we like it or not then we should not fly any flag which I think is an state but that's >> yeah I mean we're in the state of Minnesota we are motans we're a city in Minnesota and that is our flag you referenced I believe the uh the act or the state law that that set that is as our state footing. >> I mean, we don't get a vote at this has nothing to do with the city of Nala. This is, you know, this is some political debate based on, you know, hard feelings that that's totally partisan. I mean, it is the state flag. It is a state flag. Why Why would we not hang the Minnesota state flag if we're a city in Minnesota? There are there are multiple municipalities that are continuing to fly the flight. And I'm I'm not I'm not sitting here saying that we should fly the old flight, but there's no law requiring us to fly the state flag. And and this was very much a partisan effort. This is this is a partisan this is a partisan issue in the state. Whether whether we as a council are partisan or bipartisan, this is a this was a partisan issue within the state. And 70 70% of our voters in both precincts voted conservative in the general election. So my question is why why does one resident's complaint which wasn't valid because it wasn't it it wasn't based on state law why does one one resident's complaint trump everybody else everybody else's opinions about this issue >> because one is the state flag and one's not. >> We don't have to fly it. Council member Swansson. >> Yeah. Then make then, Council Member Blazer, make a motion to what you want. We'll hold it up. Let's hold it up. >> Is there any discussion? Councilman. >> Yeah, Mr. Mayor. I was just going to say um it it's I don't I don't want to it it it seems like there was some contention over, you know, I I agree. If one resident is saying, "When do we need to do this?" Well, if we didn't have to do that in the first place, um then do we really need to make the change or have the discussion that we are tonight? But I also don't want this to be a okay, we hang it and and then now we get um residents saying, well, we don't want any flag at all. And then we take it down and then we get more residents saying nope, we got to put it back up. If we just make a decision that that if there's any contention, we I I agree with Council Member Glazer. We don't have to fly any flag. I we could easily put the PM MIA flag up if if we wanted to and replacement and then and then and leave it at that. So on that I would make a motion to um just not fly the Minnesota state flag at in on city property. >> Second that. >> Any other discussion? Move to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I oppose. >> Motion does not pass. >> Mr. Can I get clarification then? Am I supposed to have staff put it back up or put it back down? >> It's Minnesota State goes back up. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay, next one. I know um counc administrative stol submitted it. N you want to talk about this? I do. Um, one of the goals that was set for the city was to try to, um, update some of the signs. Um, many of the signs are non-reflective. Um, what we have learned is that the smaller signs were made a different way and are much better reflective, but the state changed the law to go with the larger signs. Um, uh, Joe Public Works has shown me some of the signs that just fade or just completely fade away based upon where the sun is. Um, it's kind of crazy to me is that they would do that, but they did. So, we have been um, I had Dileia cut the city into four four quadrants. Um, we've got eight I think there's eight signs on this one um that we're working on trying to get the first quadrant up to date. What we've done is she's been working on it and uh Eric Public Works Matson came in and he said, "You know, some of our neighboring cities have their logo on the sign. If we're going to replace signs, wouldn't it be nice to have our our logo onto it?" Um, we did still have some money available in our signed budget. Um, about 900 over I think it was $955 in that. And we have these few here will finish up quadrant number one. And then next year we'll start working on number two. And then every fourth year we'll hit it. What I did is have the sheriff go out and pick out the worst signs that were the least reflective or down or >> or damaged >> or damaged. Um, one of the things that we're also doing instead of saying dead end, we're going to say no outlet because it's smaller. Um, so the cost of sign is a little bit less. Um, so we were just looking for is would council like to move forward with using and having the now logo put onto the signs or should we just continue doing it without the logo? That's pretty much what I'm asking. It is a budgeted item and we will continue to budget each year for each quarter to try to hit the worst signs. We are not in compliance with the state law right now, but we can't get in compliance with it, you know, in a year. So, we're just going to kind of just keep doing it a quarter at a time. >> So, just say we put new signs up, like you said, this will take care of one quadrant. Does that put us in compliance or every sign needs to be replaced to be in compliance? to be in compliance. All the signs that are not the larger newer signs were need to be replaced. I believe if somebody came to us and we I could show them that we're making an effort to move forward with that um I don't think there would be any kind of um reprimand or anything from the state. >> I do like your concept of breaking it down into quadrants, but if we're not in compliance, I would I don't want to take four years. Um I think we could move a little quicker than that. Now, can we do it in a year? I don't I'm not saying that we can't I don't know if we have enough public works time but maybe two years instead of four years something like that to maybe speed up the timeline and then we budget for 2026 accordingly >> and I can have um this year change that into the budget for discussions on on the 26. >> I think bigger signs are better. I don't know about anybody else but I'm not getting any younger. I go try to read these signs. You can't read them. >> Mr. Mayor, >> go ahead. customer. >> I almost think these days, I could be wrong and you might correct me if I am, but nobody's really the signs are of less value than if people are using maps on their phone. It's literally here's the street, turn left. And um I I would agree that um if eventually the signs, it's worth replacing. The question I was just looking at this again and came up with, how much are we how much is each sign? >> It was about $13, isn't it? >> Well, it's an extra $13. Extra 13 cost. So how much does a sign cost? >> Does not say. >> So really our vote on this particular one is do you put the now then symbol? >> It was. Yeah. It's just the extra $13 per sign. But I can get the exact amount because we did just pay. So, go ahead. >> Sorry, Council Member Brian. Go ahead. And then I'll >> No, I was just going to say I mean, if we did some math and I was trying to get at if we did some math, we could figure out if by not spending the $13, how much could it could that be towards an extra sign? I don't think I don't see any value in putting the city logo on signs if we're if we're trying to figure out how to replace them. >> Um, I would rather [clears throat] >> it actually shrinks the amount of visible space that you can read it. So I think it does exactly the opposite of what I'd like to see on >> but I mean the the number size doesn't change. It's still reflective and you don't really need the city of now to be reflective as part of this part of the sign. And I'd rather put that cost into the actual signs than than having to put spend the extra $13 per sign um to when when we replace them. >> Mr. Mayor, I I guess I I would like to um propose that that we table this for for this for the purpose of quantifying the number of signs that the city actually needs so that we can do a good job of budgeting in order to be in compliance with I'm assuming it's state law. And following council member council member Bryant's suggestion to omit the uh the city of Nelan logo on the signs itself. It's $13 per sign every spend. >> Do we have any idea how many signs we have? >> I do not. >> I do not. I know that they have been like I said replacing everything in the first quadrant to bring us with what we what we could. Um I will I know Dia does have a chart for each quadrant. So, if I have to have the sheriff go back and check all the smaller signs, >> but it wouldn't even be checked. It's be to count the number because going off what Councilman Glazer said, it's if you want to budget this, it's replace all the signs, get them in compliance because if nothing is in compliance. >> No. And some of them are the big signs because as they were getting replaced, they were getting replaced with the big signs. So, that if there was a crash, it got replaced with a big sign. Um, so I don't know how many of those are already updated. So what I would have to do is get a number of all the ones that have not been >> How about this? You get the total number of signs and we could over budget because you might have some replace so then we know what the cost is and then we can talk about it. >> Perfect. >> But I would I I would agree it council. >> Please mayor the questions I have are um she's got 42 by by 9 [clears throat] and 48 by 9. What is the size we're required to make which I have? So what are we required in size? I believe it's a 42 by9. I will have the page. Check out that. >> And then second is this um we know rent collectivity is expected to last 10 years according to Earl F. Anderson. Who's Earl F. Anderson? >> That's the company that makes the signs. >> Okay. Have we gone to any other sign companies? Does the county do them? >> They used to. I don't know. And Sherburn County at one time years back said they do our signs for us, but I don't know the cost involved. And they're still doing, you know, they're still operating, >> right? And the county does have their own sign department. >> Um, but they weren't willing to do all the signs for us. We did check with them. Earl F. Anderson is the preferred vendor. um with the state with the state quotes. >> Um I can have her check with Sherburn County to see if it's something that they would do for us. Um we did not check with Sher, but we did not go out. >> Yeah. Another county is going to do something for us. >> At one time they offered it. >> They have their own shop. >> Pay them. >> Oh, they have their own sign. >> Yes, they have their own sign. So like Anoka does, >> right? Anoka has their own sign shop. They made all of our population signs and put our logo on it. They [clears throat] they did county do that. >> No, I know. I know county didn't do that. >> Those are free. That's the question. >> Yeah. And some of the cities actually have their own sign, you know, sign department make them all themselves. So >> So are we agreeing to table this one till we can come back with cost? Everybody get to that. >> I will table officially table. >> All right. Now we're on uh E, which is the approval of resolution 2025 accepting the resignation for retirement for Joe Glazer effective 20 January 2026. Any discussion on this? >> Mr. Mayor Rainbow, >> there's no discussion. I move to approve the resolution accepting the [cough] resation for retirement. >> I'll second. >> Excuse me. Don't expect >> I think I heard a second. >> Got a second. Any other discussion? >> Okay, move to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Opposed? Motion carries. So that was next one is F. Miss Johnson. This is to open position. >> Yes. And my request is um that we move fairly quickly on this so that we can get um some applications in. My request is that I would get two council members and possibly be able to reach out to um like Grove or maybe city involvement and having a public works member come in and give us some guidance too on some of the things that we would need. Um the suggestion is to um go with just a public works um employee versus a supervisor um and really get down for the first year or 18 months of what are they actually doing and how do we get everything into safety compliance in the shop and some of the equipment and get a real good idea of where we are. Um, and then I my idea to them was to um give them a big calendar and then every day they'll kind of tell us what they did. I mean, I know pretty much what they do every day, but I don't know the details of it where they can sit down for a few minutes at the end of the day and talk with um one of the other staff members or write it down legendly and we can figure out what they do every quarter. um such as like the end of the year here in the end of October, beginning of November, they've serviced all of the equipment and they put away all the summer stuff, got everything ready for winter, so the summer will be ready to go. Um the different tree trimmings of when that should be done. Um I did learn the history of that. Um, years ago, a mayor told them that we didn't have any trees in the rightway. So, they did not cut trees for I don't know how many years. It was quite a few. Do you recall? >> Yeah. >> Um, because I couldn't figure out why do we have such big trees in our rightway if we've been brushing all. So, anyway, that was my >> So, ma'am, could you line up the interviews? Uh, so like back to back. So, if a council member comes in to do this, um, they can take certain amount of time off work or whatever the case is. >> And, but I'm also looking for guidance on um, the wages and where we start with that, which is why I wanted to bring another city in, too. So, what that range should be because we don't have a step chart. I don't really have a range as to where that should start. Um, and I would like to have a recommendation from two on the council and maybe another city so that we make sure we're competitive to try to get >> two things. Before you post a position, you have to put a pay range on there, right? >> So that has to be determined before you can post this, right? >> So one, we could look at approving it under the uh concept that you would determine reviewing other cities wages and impost a wage range. That would make sense, but that can't be approved tonight because we don't have the wage range. So, this is to approve the open a position. >> We're going to write the job description, make sure that's up to date, and >> the job description is attached. Um, I don't think a whole lot of that have changed. We could add a couple little things to it. Um, it's just the range more so that I'm concerned about is to make sure that we're going to be in the right range to be able to get something. And if we go entry level, I mean, we have to require a CDL, we should require some snow plowing experience. Um, that kind of a thing. That's my recommendations or thoughts. I does council have any ideas of, you know, maybe I'm totally going the wrong direction. I'd like >> You're not going the wrong direction, but ideally for us to approve this, we're looking at we have the pay range. >> You're going to need it. So, the question is, do we shout this? And when is the next time we're getting together? Well, it'll be the budget meeting on the on the 26th and if we could sit down. Yeah, I would like to just be able to go ahead. >> No, I would just like to be able to say yes, we can move quickly on this if I can talk to two council members and get a couple of cities, you know, entry level, mid range. I do have some of those steps so that we can get a recommendation. So it's not just me coming back and saying I believe this is the range it should be because whatever that range should be should be what applies to the other public works employees. >> That's my that's my concern right now. I don't think we can approve this tonight because we don't we need the range. So it takes a little bit of data mining to figure out what should be the range. If you bring back the proposal this is the range then I think we can approve this. It's not that I don't want to but you can't post it without a waiting range. >> No but that has to fit within the line for our city. Okay. Go ahead. Sounds like we we're looking that that clerk Johnson's looking for two council members to help out with figuring out the range. >> So it's not just my opinion. >> So once that's done and I would say in a pinch if we need to we need a special meeting to get this posted. We >> we've done that before for certain things that do that. >> Thank you for the clarification. >> I think that's where we're trying. That is exactly >> if I would have read it. >> Yes. No, I think well I would I wouldn't have done that either, but it came out in the discussion tonight that I think that's where we're going. So if that's what we're doing >> because because this is saying authorizing the job posting. So I think Yeah. So I certainly would be willing to offer offer to help out with that if we're looking for two people. >> Yeah, I would like you know two council members because they can help make the recommendation to council as to what that would be. I just don't want to do anything that's I just it whatever the range that we choose it needs to apply to our current employees. >> [clears throat] >> I I I will volunteer to help somebody else. >> I will volunteer as well. Good. You volunteer instead. >> Okay. >> We're going to be back here Thursday. That'd be perfect. Thank you. >> Okay. So, after this meeting, um can we set up a time that we could quick have a quick Zoom or call or something? >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, we need to approve this thing. Yeah, we need a motion. I'll just make a motion to um have um that council approves having council member Swanson and council member Brian help out clerk Johnson figuring out a salary range and any other issues that need to be resolved um so that the position can be posted. >> I'll second that motion. That's fantastically summarized. >> Okay. Any discussion? No. All right. Vote. All those in favor say I. >> Opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. >> Is that the last one? >> The attorney consent agenda. >> Oh, you moved it. >> Oh, okay. >> Mr. Mayor, please go ahead. The reason I move this uh I have I have a question. My first question is why do we only have one quote from one excavation contractor that replaces >> uh that is the one that Joe was able to get for me in a very quick fashion because of the letter. >> So I I I contacted two other contractors that that have done work for the city before and um neither one of them were in contact. >> Yeah. And Joe took care of it. So my my question is our our typical practice is not to take only one quote from a contractor when when it applies to city work. Why did we do that? I >> I think you got to be careful with that. I think because there's a dollar amount that says if it's over this you have to do it, but I think it's under 25,000 you don't. So I think it's not a requirement. Now is it a best practice? I >> and and that's that's the the issue that I have. Mr. I I don't I don't think I think we need to our change practices, so to speak, when it comes to things like this. Um you not that not that Dave Perkins um contracting is a bad company. >> Um they've obviously done good work for the city before, but we have other very good reputable contractors that are residents um longtime residents of the city now then. Um, and I would like to see uh more contractors reached out to in the future for a work like this. >> So, are you good with this one or are you talking in the future? >> Well, it it it's we've kind of we're kind of in a tough spot because um Perkins information is not public as far as what their estimate is. So, to go out to other contractors, it's not fair to Perkins anymore >> and the culprit has to be replaced. But but best practices for the city now then as far as I I feel bitts needs to change. >> Do you have a dollar amount that you want to do that at? >> So maybe maybe you look at it and say for everything we should have two boats and we could say that. >> Uh now when it's under like $5,000 sometimes it's very difficult to get a second quote. There's sometimes you just can't. And you know, give you an example for um the security, you can get 10 quotes to that, >> but you're going to get some specialized things that you can't. So, just as a general practice, a sucking quote would be a very helpful because just like you did. >> Yeah. >> And and if if I could add to that, Mr. if I could be included in um how we developed that best practice because um how we put out a specification. I spoke one of the contractors that I spoke to, you know, his the way he typically bids things is he includes, you know, other necessary items that the other contractors may not be getting asked to include. Um, so I think we need some input from some of those contractors as far as far as what they typically get from other cities as far as how to create a proposal for >> and that definitely could be something that changes with public works. >> Thank you. >> So we we need to vote on this one then. >> Yes, >> because we hold it up. Mr. Mayor Council, >> I make a motion to approve the resolution 2025 accepting quote of Culver Repair from Hillside Trail and Marble Street due to the fact that this cover is failed. >> Second. Any other discussion? Let's move to vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Motion carries. >> Everybody said I I >> Okay, last one. Miss Johnson. >> This is just moreformational. No, this is I need um approval if this is what you want to if we still want to go forward with it. Um earlier this year, you asked me to get together for request for proposal for our attorneys. >> Um I was doing so I took a little bit of research with it. It I worked with the League of Minnesota on this one because it's a little difficult to work with our own attorneys on trying to come up with an RFP. um as we are going through this and this is just my opinion and we will do whatever the council would like us to do but I feel um that we're working with um Corey and Rupy a significant amount on the ordinances and I believe it would cost a lot of money to bring another firm up to speed as to where we are. Um, so my request is we hold off on the civil attorney for now until we can kind of get these things wrapped up. Um, or wait on both because we might get a better deal if we have one firm doing both prosecuting and civil. So, the options are I could set still send it out for both and then just know that there might be consequences if we choose another firm and or send it out for just a prosecuting attorney and do civil at another time or just wait um and do the full proposal later next year. >> Council, would you have a recommendation on this on what the best process is? Um, I I I agree that I think we should stick with Ruby through the ordinance process. I already made very little sense to switch and I can't imagine that would be but I also think it made sense to I mean I don't know what other cities do the prosecu prosecutorial the criminal and the civil are they ever the same firm? >> Yes. And I did call some of the cities around to see who they're using because I was figuring that those would be the firms that I would send it to since they're already familiar with the NOA County and um the different law the court systems and some of the zoning issues that uh we have in this area. >> I think it would make sense just to hold off on this until the ordinance stuff is in and put them out for prop or pull out for bid right after that at the same time. When do we believe the ordinance stuff should be wrapped up? We're talking a year-long project with >> that's just starting. It hasn't even started yet. >> Right. Because the meeting will be Thursday. >> That's just starting at that point. So, Mr. Mayor C, a question for um Cliff Johnson. I know in the past we've literally had to have the mayor go on to Zoom calls with the prosecuting attorney to say, "Hey, I need to talk to you so we can at least get a bill." Are we still having issues with the current prosecuting attorney? >> We are. We've been build through May and I've not been able to get another bill. >> So, with that in mind, I think it would it would be prudent to theoretically look at changing the prosecuting attorney from a city perspective so that we're getting our bills in a timely manner. We very well might, if we go out for bid just for prosecuting, we very well might um since we do um put a lot of money into the prosecuting attorney, we theoretically might be able to take advantage of some reduced fees for the services that are being provided. So I would say it would be worth going out to bid for a prosecuting attorney. Um so that one we're um we're the city's getting invoiced in a timely manner. Theoretically, we're reducing services and we're not putting in any undue burden on our staff. And we did ask him the prosecuting attorney if he would do it monthly and we still haven't got. So that part is still a problem. >> Mr. [clears throat] Mayor, >> I don't know who's next. >> Customer, >> I agree with council member Bryant. Um we can go out for just the criminal piece and then when these other large projects are done, we can bid the whole packet again. I know. >> I was just going to ask um Cliff Johnson based on what you've given us in the packet, is the hard part done in order to put together the RFP? >> Um the hard part is done. And what I would do if we were going to go just for um prosecuting, I would just pull out. Um, my original plan was to send out a nice cover letter that would ask for both services or one so that you could find out which is a better. Talking with other cities, it does seem like it's a a a better deal for the city if you are using the same firm. Um, I know council member Bryan said, you know, we use a lot of money for prosecuting. Um, unfortunately, we really don't. We do, but we don't >> compared to the civil >> compared no compared to other cities as what they spend for prosecuting. So we're just a tiny little fraction of their book of business. So >> that's one of the reasons I was told that our billing kind of gets pushed down to the bottom and such because we're just a little small fish. >> So does it hurt anything if we send out I'm sorry. >> Well, I guess I just want to finish. Um for I I would I agree with um council members Brian and Rainbow that we should send this out. >> Is there any negative going off what you decide any negative to go out for bid on both civil and probate? We don't have to make the selection. >> At least it tells us where we're at. >> No. And we don't. >> That was the intent. That's the exact intent is this to say, hey, it gives us a benchmark of where we're at. We know the services have been very good. I'm going to tell you, I'm very impressed with what we've got for services and just last night the quick turnaround. Um, but we don't know where we're at in comparison. We could go out and ask people, but that's what this is all about. It's a process to go through even if you have good service to go out for bit. >> Okay, >> that was the intent. >> Okay, >> just go out for full services then. >> I personally would, but >> I'm all right with that, too, actually. I mean, >> because I don't think it hurts anything. And then you can say then we come back and say all right it does make sense for the civil or it does not. >> That's the way I would look at because then at least we're checking our cost. So excuse me. So to clarify we would ask them to bid it in three f three manners criminal civil and combination of both. >> Yeah. And there are many law firms that only do one. >> Right. password only do the municipal, >> right? And the ones that do too is kind of the ones that I was told may possibly give you a better deal because a prosecuting part of it is such a small part. It's a civil part that they're making money. >> It comes back to the council before anything happens. We're just review. Okay. >> All right. So, do we need to make a motion? Is that just guidance that you're asking for? >> Nope. I need to have a motion that tells me to go out for bid, please. All right, I'll make the motion. So, the [clears throat] motion is to um send the RFP for attorney services out for both civil and prosecuting attorneys. Is there a second? >> Second. Second from Council Blaze. Any further discussion hearing? None. Let's move to vote. All those in favor say I. I. I. >> I. >> Opposed? I think everybody said I. All right. Motion carries. to adjourn. >> Second. [clears throat and snorts] >> Second.