still working on daily. We can see it. It's setting up our meeting on YouTube live. People can watch on YouTube live. Yeah. The city and the school district. We always did our stuff live, but I could never count it. Mike, we're gonna go ahead and get started. Okay. So, we're going to call this meeting to order. So, the date is 20 March uh at 6 Well, looks like 601. And we're going to start off with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag states for to the republic for it stands nation. All right, we'll start with roll call. Frank, are you going to do roll call for us today? Mayor H. Council member O'Brien here. Council member Glass here. Council member Rain here. Uh, council member Swanson here. Swanson. Swanson, pardon me. Council member. All right. Terrific. We also have administrative assistant. Thank you. Administrative assistant Stokal here who'll be taking notes. We have the manager of local government solutions, Mike Hemple, here as well. is contracted to do our search for city administrator and by myself I'm your interim consultant Frank Bo. All right. Thank you sir for taking roll call. Um so we're looking for a motion to approve the agenda. We only have one agenda item on there. So move second. Okay. So we'll do the roll call vote starting with uh council member Rainville please. I. Council member Swenson. Hi. Hi. Council member O'Brien. Hi. Council member Glazer. I. And I'm also an I. Agenda is approved. All right. So, with that done, uh we're going to turn it over to uh Mike Humple and you're going to tell us a little bit about your organization and you're going to spend the next hour educating us on on the process. Right. So, I'll start by um I'm sorry. Uh, I'll just start by introducing myself a little. So, I'm Mike Humple. I'm manager of local government solutions for South Central Service Co-op. I've been in local government since 1987. I have a bachelor's and a master's degree in public administration. Uh, my first professional job out of college was with the Metropolitan Area Planning Agency in Omaha, Nebraska. So, much like the Matt Council, only we didn't own sanitary sewer districts, that sort of thing. I was a community and economic development planner in so that was 1987. In 1995 I was recruited to the city of Fairmont, Minnesota to be their first community and economic development director when so I worked there from 95 to 2002 and they made me assistant city administrator. 2012 city administrator. In 2019, I decided city administration stuff on a daily basis was just a little more than I could handle. So, I decided to do a little more consulting and a little less dayto-day city management. So, I went to work for the South Central Service Co-op as their manager of Hope Government Solutions. South Central Service Cooperative is one of nine service co-ops around the state. They were created in 1976 to basically help school districts um cooperate and share services. So the easiest way I could explain some of the things we do on the school district side is that so if you you're a small school district and you have a need for some an aologist to help a hearing impaired child instead of hiring one we can we'll contract that person into the district for the number of hours they need to take care of their students. We have a a nurse on our staff that helps all the cities in our nine county service cooperative, all the school districts. She makes sure all the school nur nurses have their accreditations, their continuing ed, that sort of thing. In 2002, the legislature gave us permission to do the same thing, do the cooperative stuff with cities and counties. So, I was hired in 2019. And on the right side of your packet is is this. I'm not going to go through this, but this is all the services we offer. So, we do contracted community and economic development work. You're a small city. You can't you can't afford or maybe you don't have enough actual business to have your own community development director, but you think you need one two two days a week. will contract that person into your to the to the city for as many hours as you want or two days a week and and they'll act as as your staff basically either remote or a or a hybrid situation. So, we do that. Same thing with economic development. We help with annexation services. We do we the service cooperatives have a co-op purchasing plan. If you're familiar with the state bid process, we we take cards, paper, everything. We go out for bid and we followed all the rules that the law requires and then it allows us to have members come in and buy that stuff without going through the bid process themselves. State bid is the is the same way. So, we do that. We do labor relations. I've done a lot of work with um service agreements. um city city fire departments contracting with townships and that sort of thing. And then um our executive search services, we we work with, you know, I'm I'm right now I'm doing a search for an administrative assistant for a soil and water conservation district. I'm doing I'm working with the city of Blue Earth and the city of um um Blooming Prairie and and you guys. So I have we have four going but what you know it doesn't we from assistant an administrative assistant to a finance director to a city manager. So we anything that cities, counties or other government entities want us to help with. So that's kind of about all of the services and I don't want to spend too much time with that. I really want to go over what we're going to do for you in terms of your executive search for a new city administrator. So, this is for, you know, bedtime reading right before you go to sleep. This will put you to sleep. With that, I I'd like to So, on the first page in your packet on the left, I'd just like to go over our philosophy in the executive search process. Both my my boss and I are 25, 30 year city administrators. So we we we understand how cities work. And I understand that mayors and city council people are elected volunteers. A majority of the time you have day jobs and a family and that should be your priority. Um the exe the executive search process takes a long time. It's time consuming and it diverts your attention from your city council meetings. On the other side of thing, additionally, city staff are busy doing what it takes to run your your city organization, and if they're spending their time on executive search or trying to find a a city administrator, they're not getting the city's goals done. So, what we like to say is, you know, we're going to do all the heavy lifting for you. At the end of the day, we're gonna we're gonna have five candidates that we're going to vet that all can do the job. I'm going to ask you to interview four. We have an extra one in case one of them, one of our candidates drops out. All four or all five will be able to do the job. What I want all of you to do as a council and a city staff is we'll bring these people forward and then your job is going to be to to say who best fits our organization who who do we think's going to going to best work with us. So you know that's our role and our team will implement the search process. It's as I said designed to identify five. We'll do that through we'll do all your advertising. We'll you won't have to do anything but read a weekly report from me saying here's how many applicants we have. Here's the here's their general background and their education, their background. And every seven to 10 days, you'll get that. As we as we go through the process, we add and as we're doing that, I'm ranking them. First, I take your job description and I create 10 points, 10 things we want to look at and I assign 10 points to every one of those. So, if we get 15, it allows me to screen down. If they don't meet this basic criteria just we won't even look at the next step would be we've we have between five and seven that I will actually call and interview myself over a zoom meeting narrow it down to five and then I get a another colleague of mine involved she's a contractor with us she's a professional HR person has her own business master's degree and in human resources from the Carlston School of Management. She worked for 3M and and Boston Scientific. She just wanted to move out of the cities and back down. Her and her husband run their family farm down there and she works with us. She'll call and she does a management leadership assessment that she's created for this process. As part of that, we purchase what's called a PXT assessment. Basically, basically we've worked with a company to say we're hiring a city man administrator or city manager. Here's the things they need to do and know. They put together a basically a test. We administer the test and then they send it back to the PXT folks. They send us a report. And so what you'll get in your packet, it's it's it's the next It looks like this. This is this is the leadership and management assessment that Crystal will do, my colleague. He will have talked to all the all the applicant all the finalists. We'll compare our notes and we'll look at the PXT assessment. So, you'll get this and it'll actually provide you a ranking of the of the four we brought forward. What I want to say at this point is even though this ranks them, this ranks them on a test, this doesn't rank them as to who you think's going to fit best for you guys. This so your job is then to say what one of these four best fit your organization and and so we'll give you this information 7 to 10 days before you interview. So, you'll have time to read up on on on these folks and and so on. But that's kind of our assessment process and we like to do four or kind of a a flow of the day process. So on the first day, well, I'll explain that later. So I like to interview four. So you can do two in the morning, break for lunch, 2 in the afternoon. We get done about 3:00, 3:30, convene to go in, we'll get together, we'll talk about who you want, if you want to make an offer. So that night after you're done interviewing, you'll be you'll be able to direct me to make that make an offer. So, the best way for me to explain how this whole process works is your next page in your in your packet is our timeline. And that starts back when you um I think it was February 11th that there is a final decision on the on the on the search process. So, we're at the 20th. So when I leave tonight, our my goal will be to go back and we'll develop a strategy for advertising. We're we we're going to talk about some expectations that you have for this person. Um we're going to create a position profile, an announcement. That position profile is basically our marketing material for the city of now then to attract somebody and it also tells them about the community and and about and about the position and your thoughts on the position. That usually takes about 13 days. We have a marketing and communication staff that work with me. three or four people will we'll do the LinkedIn and they'll do the LinkedIn and Facebook advertisement that we do. They'll do all the all the advertisements that we we'll do this we'll um advertise this nationally. So, we'll get all that ready over the next 13 days. And then April 14th or so, whether it's the mayor and and my my mind went blank. Frank, if the mayor and Frank or or just three mayor and a council person, whoever, what I want you to do is I'll I'll give you that position profile and announcement. And what I'll ask you to do is does it adequately represent the city of now then and the information you want and you'll approve that doesn't need council approval but I want someone other than our staff and myself to look at it before we put it out on the internet and start advertising. So my goal is to ask begin advertising this position on April 21st. We could have maybe done it the 16th or 17th of April, but that's Good Friday and Easter weekend. So, I don't think there's going to be a lot going on. So, to maximize our days where where people are out and looking, we'll advertise it on April 21st for 30 days. April through May, I'll be reviewing those applications. As I told you, I'll provide you an update every 7 to 10 days. There won't be any names on it. education, experience, that sort of thing, because anything I give you is public information. So, one of the things I like to do is hold the names till that week to 10 days before the interviews. A lot of times people say, "Well, if you're going to make my name public, I've got a job over here. I don't I don't want to be part of the process until I know I'm a finalist." So you when so for 30 days we'll advertise it and then from June 27th to uh the 13th which is 30 working days I'll do my Zoom meeting. Um Crystal will do her Zoom meeting and and management leadership assessment and we'll we'll administer the PXT assessment. We'll have them whittleled down to the five by then and you'll see from our reports kind of what your five finalists are going to look like in general in those reports. Um, and then June 16th or 17th, I will provide those full reports to you. It'll be a three- ring binder. It'll have all of the assessments in it. It'll have this timeline. It'll have our our itinerary for the interview process. It will have what their references said about them. I will have in there. I will have done the criminal background checks. Um, we our marketing and communications people do pretty substantial internet searches on the finalists because I don't want to be standing here and you ask a question that I don't know the answer to and because with the internet today city staff once the finalists are announced everybody starts googling them and so we do a pretty uh substantial um just an internet search, but the background search is the BCA and the court system, Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, and and the court system. So, we'll know judgments against if there's judgments, if there's I don't mention anything to the council unless I think it's something that would impact the person's ability to do this job. um a DUI 10 years ago. If if if they had a DUI three times in the last 10 years, I'd let you know about because that that could be an issue. But one 10 years ago, probably not. Um and 90 well probably 90% of the time everyone's clear. You know, we don't see much. There are times when there's maybe a circumstance that shows up in an internet search. And I'll use myself as an example. When I was deciding to leave the city of Fairmont, the charter says that if you're if the council's moving to release the city administrator, they have to put him on paid administrative leave for two weeks and then allow a hearing in the end. Well, our newspaper said I was on paid administrative leave. They never said that we were negotiating a separation that I was okay with. And so when you when you see, oh, my company was put on, it wasn't because I was doing anything wrong. It was because we decided we couldn't work together. So that's just an example of, you know, sometimes things get twisted in in Google searches. So we get we get through that 7 to 10 days. I told you you'd get that binder. And I'm thinking the week of the 9th or the week of the And what I like to do is two days. What what are your council are they generally Thursday? Thursdays. Okay. Well, then maybe we pick a Wednesday and and Thursday. I I have a two-day interview process and a lot of cities are Monday or Tuesday or Tuesday and Wednesday. But so the first day would consist of bringing the candidates here to now then about two o'clock in the afternoon. If we do it here, that's wherever we do it. But I'll set up four tables. I'll ask that as many city staff as you can spare that day for from 2 till about 4:30 to come. I'll sit them at at a few at each table or as many as it takes at each table and then I'll speed date these candidates through those tables and city staff can ask them, you know, whatever they want within the letter of the law. You can't ask them if they're married and that sort of thing, but I'll give them a don't ask these questions sheet of paper. But it it gives them time to get to know who are these are these people, you know, go through it and about 20 to 30 minutes per table per candidate. Then the candidates will leave, have them tour now then for an hour and a half or so. During that time, I'll let city staff sit down and work by themselves, talk amongst themselves. Who do you like? What do you like about them? What don't you like about them? And then I'll when they're ready, I'll come in and I'll ask the group to summarize their their comments. I I will write those comments down. And generally, you know, like in all teams, someone a leader will, you know, they'll there'll be a scribe and someone that'll talk and then we'll all talk a little bit and I'll hold that information that I have from the staff until after all of you interview. So, after we're done there, 5:00, 5:30, whatever it is, we'll have a meet and greet in here. The council will be here. We invite citizens, school district, board members or superintendent, planning commission members, EDA members, general public for about an hour, hour and a half. It's just kind of a meet and greet. The the candidates won't give presentations, but they'll walk around the room and talk to folks. And it does a couple things. It allows you to see how they work in a crowd. Are they standing in the corner waiting for people to come to them? Are they greeting people? um you'll be able to talk to them and that does the second thing. They meet all of you and you meet them. When they come in to interview the next year, I think everybody's a lot more relaxed, not not as nervous and I think the interviews go a little a little better. So on the second, so that gets us through the first day of the interview process. On the second day, like I said, probably 9 9:30 and then the next one at 10:30 to 11:30, then break for lunch and you know, then we'll do the same in the afternoon. We'll get together. I like to and it's I'd have to we'll have to visit with your city attorney a little bit. There's a lot of different thoughts on this. I like to you're when you're in the interview process, that is an open meeting that you'll you'll have opened and it'll be a normal city council meeting. So, when we're done with interviews, what I like to do, and we'll work with your city attorney, is there's a um statute 13 something. It says that city councils can go into close session to negotiate a labor contract. And some feel that that means no, you got to go in and and discuss. It's all about labor unions. Our our thought and others thoughts are no, we're negotiating a labor contract or or a labor agreement with your new city administrator. And if we negotiated that in an open forum and you said, "Okay, we're going to pay this candidate. We're going to offer this, this, and this." And they declined, but you have a second person you'd like to offer it to, but maybe they don't have the experience or the education, you might not want to offer the same um compensation package. So if that's out there, then it's it's hard to do that. So that's I like to to negotiate that in in a closed session. Once we're done, we'll come back out of close session and we'll talk we'll have a statement ready that's saying, well, the council has agreed to um make an offer to a candidate. We're going to make that um candidates name public once they accept or because if they don't accept, we want to and and you want to offer it to somebody else. It's it's easier that way. Um that's why I like to try to do it all in that two-day time frame. when I leave here, hopefully I'll have direction to either make an offer to somebody or to call them and say, you know, the council's decided to regroup and and start over or whatever the case may be. Um, so during our discussion on on the who you want to hire, there's always a time where I kind of sense, well, how about I tell you what your staff felt about the candidates and I'll I'll share what they said and kind of who they thought were the best. And generally speaking in in in my experience the council and the staff pick the same two people by elect one. They might have them switched around one and two but generally you pick the same. Um so that's our process from any questions on the on the process sound reasonable. I know it seems like a long time, but um 30 days is the minimum we like to advertise and then there's another 30 days on the back side for them to um for the finalist that's chosen to give notice. You know, a lot of sometimes the person might not be working. they could be in transition but generally they're working and if they don't want to give 30 days we probably don't want you know so so our our process shows um the new administrator starting sometime in mid August and this is pretty much the our our standard length of time you're a little longer just because we have the Memorial Day and the Fourth of July holiday that kind it it pushes us back a a week anyway because without without the um Fourth of July holiday in there that June 30th to the 4th is kind of a long I mean it's hard to get people lined up to do that sort of thing. So with that I'll I'll take questions and push my leave this go or push it you're gonna talk okay Mr. Mayor asking question. Thank you. Um Mike, you talked about the interviews that the council do and the course interviews are always dependent upon the questions asked. Oh, can you talk a little bit about how those are divined? Yeah, I what I'll do is I'll provide 20 questions or so and there'll be space for you to write in your own what I and and they'll be in that binder packet and they'll be your packet will have dividers in it by person and and you'll have a a sheet for each person so you can take notes. Um what I ask is you know that if we ask the questions and generally what we'll do is we'll have the mayor start out say hi Jim hi Kathy just give us a brief introduction of yourself and then you just go around. I like each council person to ask questions until we're done. And each council person we ask that we ask the same question to all the candidates. There's always going to be maybe a follow-up question that you won't have, but all the the base questions to the same. Did I Did I cover it, Frank? So, Mike, I have a question for you. So, done a lot of interviewing and been part of a lot of processes. Typically, I look at a 90-day hiring and this is uh basically five months, so it's a little bit longer. Um, is there anything in your recommendation that could be shortened a little bit? So, we could have that person starting in July. I know you just said it's very comprehensive. Um, one statement on that is I personally don't know anybody that does a 30-day notice. I I haven't seen it. I I normally it's a twoe process, a twoe notice. Well, I I just I would just say in in the government in local government, most all city administrators or department heads that have employment agreements require a 30-day notice. So, something more on that. Yeah, it's it's more of a government thing than it's something you probably wouldn't see in the in the private sector as much. a lot of the um and I think as you did with your last administrator have employment agreements that outline that and that's not real typical for a private sector position either. Okay. Thank you. If there's other questions you can ask Mike. Mr. Mayor um do we have have we have we determined um who is on the search committee? Is it the entire council um on the search? Do we h do we have a search committee? I I just that's kind of generic. Is there some I always ask councils to use a council as a whole for the hiring process. Um sometimes they'll they'll appoint a mayor and a council person to be my direct points single points of contact so I don't have five people calling me asking me questions. But um you know I think that generally works best when you have a council as a whole do that. And then do do we have an approved um job description for the hiring process with with I was going to go through the job description here in a little bit and see if we can I want you have one that was approved at some point 22 in 22. So, I've looked at that and I'll I'll talk about that in a little bit. See if we can't get one hammered out for you. Is that included as part of the 13 working days is the job description portion of it? Yes, that'll that's in the first few That's in the first 13 days. Okay. Yeah. So, that's where I was looking at it. No, we we don't have those. So, let's let's if there aren't any questions, you know. May I ask a question, Mr. Mayor? May I ask a question? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, thanks. So, I was just wondering, are we going to be just advertising for this position and waiting for applicants? Are you guys actively seeking out applicants? Um, are we looking at, you know, maybe potentially sort of proactively seeking out other city administrators for other similar size tiles or is it just really advertise and wait for the applicants? Really advertise and wait for the applicants. I'm I'm sorry. I should have been a little more clear on that. No, it's not advertise and wait. I think I have 13 individuals identified already. Um, we will we'll advertise with the International City Managers Association, Association of Minnesota Counties, League of Minnesota Cities. We'll advertise in Wisconsin, South Dakota, and Iowa kind of border states. We'll do a lot of calling. We This is my 31st search since 2021. So, talked to a lot of people. I work a lot with the Minnesota City County Managers Association, so I know who's kind of looking and not looking. I've been talking to people saying, "I've I've got a few searches coming up, that sort of thing." So, you know, starting right after we put together the um position profile and kind of our our announcement, I will start calling people that that day and working. So, it's not an advertise and wait. No, we we'll we'll be looking through and calling a lot of different folks. Does that answer your question, counselor? Yeah, it does answer my question, but I I do have another follow-up question. You mentioned uh working on 31 different hires, I believe, and I I assume a lot of those are Minnesota cities. Are you going to end up with a conflict if some, you know, deputy clerk or something from one of those cities ends up applying for us? Are you going to be able to process that or will you have a conflict uh as they might be, you know, for any towns that are prior prior clients of yours? I don't I don't understand why I would have a conflict. All right. And I don't understand why I would have a I don't I don't think there'd be any conflicts. All right. All right. I'm there there are times where um actually um few months ago I finished Kenyon and Cannon Falls and Lewon and those are all kind of in the south southeast part of the state. I had two or three people candidates that were in both searches. So, and and you know that that's we you know it it actually you know at at times can can make things move a little quicker because we've already done the PXT assessment and some other things. So, but you know and going back we I looked for I think I think we had of the 31 I think 14 had have candidates from outside the state and so and we you know I call you know if I know that there's a um say an assistant city administrator or community development director that's called me and said hey I'm ready to go to my next level in the in in my career. That's pretty standard. And so I I'll call them and you know I call them at home. I don't call them at the city hall there or the city building they're working at. But you know and we'll I'll send this packet right a whole packet right to them. Okay. Is there any other follow-up questions for Mike or can we go to the next step? So, the next the next thing I have for you, this this is going to help me. Um, it's it's the questionnaire I sent all of you. There's it's a summary and I want I want to state for the record that I summarized and paraphrased what all of you said or this would be pages and pages long. So what I do want to make the statement is that um I think that all of you pretty much are on the same page in terms of what you're looking for and you know I'll just highlight some of the things you can read it. This will become part of the position profile that we share with people and that I talk if someone calls me and says well what do they want Mike? and I'll say, "Well, the position profile, there'll be an attribute section and it'll it'll have this reprinted in it." Sometimes ca applicants or c potential candidates will say, "Well, Mike, you know, what's the council like? What's its makeup? You know, how many I I'll I'll pull an example. Um, how many of them thought it was um, real important that I have very indepth financing and budgeting? Do they have a finance director? You know, those sorts of things. So, I I'll go and I'll look at when I'm talking to I'll look at individual council members suggestions and requests from that questionnaire that I sent you. But this is a summary for you and for the position profile. And you know, you're looking for a professional composed of highly organized and strong communication, problem solving, a servant leader. At heart, they should be innovative, collaborative, and comfortable presenting ideas to the council. Key qualities include motivation, trustworthiness, concise, conscientious, intuitive. They they should inspire and a team. Treat everyone fair and with respect be willing to step in and assist as needed. Strong written verbal communication skills along with a commitment to continuous improvement. Additionally, the ideal candidate should be visionary, optimistic, um guiding the organization toward future success. Those are personal characteristics. five technical characteristics and again um that you want to the council overall wanted a strong ex strong experience in finance and budgeting as well as proficiency in computer hardware and software including Microsoft 365 effective management and the ability to um confidently address the public and answer questions. Um the role requires independence in in performing administrative task with minimal staff support along with strong negotiation skills. The ideal candidate must be able to multitask, prioritize effectively and think strategically while responsibil responsibilities as needed. They should be skilled in overall policy development. have a solid understanding of state statutes, city code, uh be able to electronically work through statutes and city code, the ability to access and interpret electronically develop city policies and directives. Add additionally, the administrator should work closely with the city attorney on all legal matters affecting the city. Um top priorities. The administrator should be an effective personnel manager. Foster a working environment um without micromanaging or taking matters personally. They should build strong respective relationships with city staff, the council and residents and promote collaborative collaboration and trust. A key priority is increasing revenue through business development and business friendly friendly policies rather than relying solely on tax tax increases. The administrator should develop pract practical five and 10-year capital improvement plans that enable the city to make necessary purchases for efficient operations rather than deferring expenses for short-term budget goals. Preserving the city's rural character and charm while balancing business development and revenue growth is essential. The administrator must ensure staff receive proper training and facilitate clear communication between the employees and the council and residents to prevent conflicts, promote stability, lead by example, and they should um set the tone for staff morale. Uh key responsibilities include conducting a class and compensation study, identifying opportunities for efficiency and documenting city processes. The administrator should also update and codify city or ordinances, eliminating update or updating unnecessary reg or eliminating outdated unnecessary regulations and complete personnel policies. A thorough review of conditional use permits is necessary along with improving code compliance. Talks about wanting to hire a fire chief, a strategic plan for the efficient and effective um fire department, improve city planning, potentially with the help of con of a consultant um should be a focus. Additionally, the administrator should actively engage residents and the council in discussions about now then's current status and the future direction, ensuring proactive long-term vision rather than short-term decisionmaking. And I say overall, I believe the city council is generally consistent in their thoughts on the process on the next city administrator, personal characteristics and technical skills. I also reviewed the results and find that they're pretty consistent with the city administrator job description that you have. I'll kind of walk through that and and it gives some recommendations for maybe um changing some things and listening to what all of you have to say. That's kind of the summary. I went through it fast. You can all read it on your own, but I wanted to show that kind of enter that in into the record. questions or concerns on that and I can, you know, kind of talk about what I see on your job description as well. I think before the job description, there's there's a page in there that's that's general information that I'll work on with Frank. the types of things that I I'll put in your profile, job description, qualifications, desired qualifications, um benefits package, salary range, and we'll talk about that later. Um permission to use the website and pictures, num, you know, just all the stuff we need to put a good position profile together. That's just kind of some of the data we'll collect from Frank and with the help of the rest of the staff. questions and I appreciate everybody answered the um questionnaire for me. So I appreciate that. Frank answered it so it's good. So I looked at your um current um job description and I really find it done very well. Um, if we go down to qualifications, I would change that around. I would take out an associates degree altogether. And I would say the minimum qualification should be a bachelor of science in public administration, um, accounting, finance, business management, something. But I think that a bachelor's degree and three to five years experience should be the minimum. um you know it's always going to you know what I say is I'll give a minimum qualifications and then we could say and then we what's desired is a master's degree and seven to 10 years experience and maybe someone and and they have three to five years experience at at a department head level level or as a manager. So that's what I would change on on your on your first page kind of just the basics of of what you're wanting. And I think we we want to set the bar high so that we get the best candidates possible. Um next if we just turn the page. So I suggest removing titles from the essential functions. One of the things I want to say about that is what you're doing is basically telling your city administrator, you're the chief administrative officer for the city. Basically, he he or she knows they're responsible for all these functions, but it's also okay for them to say or to talk with you about I want to delegate, you know, I want to delegate the finance part of this to finance director. I don't think the administrator should be the finance director, the zoning administrator and all those things. Can't one couldn't possibly do that effectively. So, they're going to need some people, some other employees existing or hired at some point to be able to say, "Okay, I'm going to I'm going to run the budgeting process and the five-year capital improvements plan, but I'm going to do that with the help of a person that I've assigned to kind of be our finance director, and we're going to work together. We're going to we're going to work with department heads on on putting together the budget. We can't expect the city administrator to do all that on their own. Um same way with with planning and zoning. Is the administrator is ultimately responsible, but is there someone or is there a consultant they can use to help with the with the day-to-day planning and meeting with? I, you know, I've got a individual that's upset about having to come to the planning commission to um buy five feet of his neighbor's property and do the lots. You know, I say there maybe there's someone that can work with your residence instead of the the city administrator where he's doing all all these other things. The other part of this is I want to ask Frank is this a the city administrator the clerk treasurer as well by statute. Yes. Okay. Statute says you have to identify who the clerk treasurer is and you could say yes that's the city administrator but you could also that you could also appoint a deputy clerk or deputy to do the dayto-day stuff. So, and and that's why I say in the job description, I would want to take the the titles out of the functions and let this and say, "No, administrator, you're you're responsible for all these things, but we're going to with your input, we're going to let you say, okay, we're going to appoint a finance director. Maybe down the road, we're going to hire a planning consultant." Because I don't think that trying to do all these things, one could be as successful as you want in in meeting your goals and and getting all your day-to-day activities, Mike, in changing the education requirements. So, we have a we have there's an expectate there might be an expectation that um candidates will have knowledge in those areas. So to create possibly less reliance still we still have to rely on because we're a small city we have contract consultants for planning right legal finance but that that person would have you know with you know three to five years or ideal five to seven years have knowledge in those areas correct absolutely you know we're going to you know I'm going to assess how well they understand local government and I'll assess how much if they tell me that yeah I understand budgeting well in my conversation with them I'll I'll I'll I'll know how much they understand about budgeting you know do they know the difference between the general fund and enterprise funds and if they can't tell me the difference then they don't know much about local government types so yeah and and you know when I look at this if there were to be someone that maybe only had an associates degree. We can word this or equivalent. So if someone has an associates degree but they have eight years experience as a department head, you know, could that experience and that department head combined make up for not having a bachelor of science? We can be flexible. I mean I can write it so we can be flexible. Thank you. And then the ne the the next page I I didn't see anything wrong again information technology director I I took that out work you work with a consultant the knowledge and skills I think is is fine and and then the understanding and the requirements of you know the legalities and conditions of employment. I I think all this is done very well except for I think we we need to have an understanding as as the council that you're hiring a chief operating officer and and whether you use consultants, you know, they they should have the flexibility as you grow and evolve as a as a community to working with you, make those appointments that this person's going to be, you know, responsible or, you know, this person's this staff person is going to be our staff person and liaison to the planning commissioner. And I I'm just those are just examples of how a city administrator could operate being responsible for everything but not actually having to do all the day-to-day activities because you just can't do all that stuff. So, I could take other suggestions from all of you on the job description. We'll happy to go back and and add and put things together or send you a another, you know, rework it and send it back. I personally like what you've described, increasing the levels of uh education and experience, getting rid of titles, um but also leaving some flexibility in I think is very important. you may have somebody that has the experience but not the education and I've worked with many people that you know and success one of the things um to councelor Swansson's you know when we're he said will you be pursuing other people and there are some people that we know in the private sector that want to switch over so you know they they they might have some similar experiences in finance and budgeting one of the things I'm seeing right now is that um some of the larger auditing firms that are doing audits for cities and counties, some of those folks are starting to look, okay, maybe I'd like to be a finance director or they've done enough where they they want to try to make the switch to city administrator and a community your size or community penions or Lewon size that I work with are are sometimes a good good starting point for those folks. Is there any other feedback for Mike on the job description? Mr. Mayor member, go ahead. Is there like, you know, I could see where some of some of these what we're calling currently essential functions could be prioritized over some of the other ones. um where potentially um current roles could be, you know, adjusted as because right now we do not have an official finance director, but we do have someone um you know, that that but that is designated to our deputy clerk. But that might be an area to focus on going is that something that we're we would be looking at to go hey you know it might help to have if if someone had more emphasis on on in in any of these areas that would be beneficial and you know especially as we get into budgeting for next year and and I guess it I don't know how involved the council is on but what what I'm suggesting is exactly what you said, but allowing that administrator to say, you know, I have enough faith and trust in my deputy clerk or to they could really do they can handle this a little more in-depth finance stuff independently without me and grow your staff from within. Well, I'm also looking at where where there are sure roles. There are roles that we are consulting that we may or may not need if we emphasize some of these some of these areas and finance would be a good example. And and if and you know what you know what I'm suggesting is that you let this new person come in and say you know kind of let it figure it out you know kind of see the lay of the land and then come back and say council you know I'm thinking that you know maybe we should move this person into this a little more day-to-day focus maybe some additional compensation but work through that with you. That's not what I'm getting at. Okay. I mean, if there was an error, finance director would be um if there are is if there's a if if we knew that, hey, if if we're looking for an administrator and someone who if we wanted to put emphasis on a finance director and those responsibilities, then we could theoretically look at not necessarily needing a consultant. But if you don't know that, then then then we'd end up with, you know, just just the general things is where I'm trying to get at. So, you're asking how do we make that a priority, right? How could we make some how do is there I mean if there's any specific roles where we go and you know what yes I understand um we currently have a a city planner and and the zoning administrator but so that wouldn't that might be lower on the priority list versus having a actual finance director person that can assist our current deputy clerk to to to not to to fill in um inhouse some of those roles and responsibilities that we're currently contracting with. So if then the then the if if that is a priority for the council then we could say we could we could I would put a higher emphasis on fighting on someone with financial capabilities and less planning. So you if you said planning, I' i'd look at more planning people. But if finance is is the council's consensus on we really want someone that's got hardcore finance background that can teach someone inhouse to do this, then those then then those people are going to score higher in my ranking process than someone else. Okay. And I and I probably believe I also believe that would be a great area. It's not one that we have a lot of strength at. So I think finance would be a good targeted area to look at. Um and it has the ability to potentially and maybe it's not this year that that uh the consultant um is stopped, but maybe it's next year once there's a transition plan. But I I think that is a good plan. because I will um have individuals ask so you know when I read the finance you know I'm okay at at budgeting and that but you know so some will want to shy how strong is their in-house person they have now and so knowing what I know I can I can say no that this council is going to put a lot of emphasis on this this person's aptitude in budgeting and I think knowledge strong knowledge of public sector finance is important something that's something that we could benefit from. Council member Rainville or Council Member Swinson. Uh any additional comments? Not for me. I can't hear you, Mary. Not for me. Was that Councilman Rainville that said she can't hear? Swson. I heard Council Member Swinson say he didn't have any comments, but I thought there was another comment. I thought I could. She's talking. Council member Rel, are you on mute by chance? Would you be able to take off your headphones? Mary, can you hear me now? And turning them off as well, please. Can you hear me now? Yes, we can. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Um, I just want to um um I just want to make sure that we are looking at experiences within the private sector. Um we um we we tend to look at government but Michael did say to look at private and I do want to look at private experience also um there are some commonalities there's a lot of differences um but but a lot of different things that they people have done in the private sector can come over and be of benefit in the in the government sector of benefit in So that's it. Thank you, Marville. I I concur with that assessment also. Thank you. Yeah. And and I believe that I believe that right now there are there are people wanting to make that switch and you know where we always look for we'll call them the I'm the conventional you know undergraduate degree in public master's degree in public. We look at people outside that that have the the masters in you know the BS or the MBA and you know working in banks working in a lot of different areas and that's why I brought up the the um accounting you know the people that are doing city county audits. So I'll give this kind of a work over and send it back and try to put some emphasis on the write it up. So we put some emphasis on the on the finance and maybe a little flexibility in the in the minimum qual qualifications and saying that you know x number of years of business experience is equivalent type of thing. Make sure I'm staying on task here. I think there's only a couple more sheets to address. Yep. General. So, the last last but not least, we went over that general information. Last but not least is your last page, and that's trying to identify a salary range. We're members of the um League of Minnesota's Minnesota Cities um business leadership council. It allows us access to the League of Minnesota Cities and Association of Minnesota Counties uh Gallagher Joint Salary Survey. It's published once a year. So this summer or here coming up, we're getting we'll get 24 data. Um what you see here is is 23 data that I received last summer and 24. So you could probably add 3% to a lot of the numbers on the top half. So what I did is I looked at sal or I looked at populations of 3 to 4,000 and 4,000 to 5,000 and that's how it's broke out in the survey. And so the high of the range is in a community 4,000 to 5,000 is Becker, Minnesota at 162531. You might want to add 3% to that. The high of the range in a com in a community of 3 to 4,000 is Afton 128960. The average of 10 cities um 4,000 to 5,000. And the reason that average of 10 cities and then there's 20, there's just fewer cities, four to 5,000 than there are smaller. Um, so there of the 10, the average is 130. The average of 20 cities in that 3 to 4,000 population is 116. I understood the salary range of the former city administrator was 118 here, right? Correct. That's correct. Um I know Centerville, Credit River, and I'm doing the Blue Earth search. Um Centerville hasn't I can't find anywhere where they're publishing what they're going to advertise yet. don't think they've they're kind of about the same spot you are now then is in terms of getting their search going. Um, so you know, Credit River is uh very similar to to now then down by Savage and and Prior Lake. Um, 116 to 145. Blue Earth is a city a little smaller. Um, I'm doing that search. They're at 100 to 130. Um, I did the Jackson search a year ago and then they hired DDA when they parted ways earlier this year with the person they hired under us there. That person came from California. They're at 12916. I know that's the starting wage for that Cannon Falls. I did that search. That's the starting wage that can and I did the search in Kenyon and that started at 1255. I'm recommending to be competitive that you look at a range between 120 and 145. Doesn't mean you have to pay 145. You can what I like to say if you you have a target somewhere in the middle it and you hire someone that's maybe has all the education and I'll just make this example has been a finance director or an assistant finance director. You might say, "Okay, 125." And that that 145 that allows that person to say, "Hey, I I've got room to grow." Same with if you targeted someone in the middle that has been a city administrator in a smaller city but maybe has good a good handle on finance and maybe a really good handle on planning and zoning, but you want that person you could hire, you know, in a target and they have room to grow as well. But if you have a a rock star that saying, you know, I'm I'm tired of working for an 80,000 person city. I'm I'm I want to slow down a little bit and move out to a more rural type setting, but close to the metro, you've got money to be enticing at the top of the range, too. Mr. you are in the you are in the metro area and I do a lot of work in the southern part of the state and you know so it's all starting to kind of come together I mean salary ranges in the public sector have really increased a lot of people are leaving the public sector going into the private it's just been a trend in the last few years you know where I'd get 16 20 applicants. I'm getting 9 12 13. Council member Brown, when when you put this salary range study together, did you base it only on population? Um, or were there other factors included? the population the the what what I looked at is city administrators, city managers, that's a category in the survey and then the surveys by population size because the reason I bring it up I look at and and city administrators, county administrators, I look at I look at finance directors and department heads as well, but generally Because Minnesota has a comparable worth pay equity statute, the city administrator is generally the highest point person. So their their salary ranges, if I looked at finance directors and below, their salaries are going to be a little bit less. The reason I bring it up is I've in all the time that I've been on council, it's well, if we're doing a wage study, we got to be we got we can't just be comparing population because now doesn't have interstates running through the through the town. Now then doesn't have railroads. We contract with the sheriff's department. We don't have um m currently municipal liquor or um CBD stores that that type of thing. And that would would theoretically affect wage studies. Well, the wage studies that uh this wage study is completed only by cities and counties. Right. And so I and there are populations like this that I mean there's a lot of cities that don't have interstates running. I don't know what that it's it's a matter of of of looking at the job responsibilities and and and and the job responsibilities. I take that into consideration when when making my recommendation. The surveys themselves are a combination of um a a lot of factors that you know they they [Music] it don't know that because you don't have a municipal liquor store necessarily. it changes the duties of the administrator much. So, Mr. Mayor. Okay. So, that's what this is why I'm trying to ask. Don't forget about Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm just Oh, yeah. I think no to to your question to the point that the surveys are are based on population and that you're a city administrator, county manager, city manager. That's what this reflects by population. and and the only um these you had to have answered the survey these are only ser so this isn't a a call and guess the city actually had to send it in so this isn't representing 100% of the cities in Minnesota though it's it's whoever answered the survey and yes so the criteria so no I didn't consider that the number of departments or budgets necessarily isn't included in here. But by and large, in general, budgets are similar in terms of population size. Okay. So, Mr. Mayor, Rainville, go ahead. Um I I'm on the same track as um Council Member Brian. you know, we don't we our city administrator will not be managing a a city water department or city sewer department. Uh we don't have enterprise zones. We're not providing electrical to our residents. Um where I believe some of those additional functions in addition to what council member Brian said would qualify for a higher salary. Um but we don't have those. We are still rural septic well. You know we don't have a stop light. So I I think those things should be taken into consideration when we do have a final discussion on salary. When we do have a final discussion on salary. Thank you. I would just like to ask the question then and maybe for all the group to answer is so if he's recommending an average wage of 130,000 what would you recommend for the average wage for now then? Well, Mr. Mayor, council member, go ahead. I I think maybe um modifying broadening the range maybe is would be more palatable. Yeah. Would you know I I concur? Yeah. So it it would be a range, but you would take that average and you build your range from that average. And that's why I was targeting the average. So, Council Member Brian, if you said, "Hey, 130 is I I get where you're where you're at now." I understand. So So So you know, even though Blue I I don't know anything about Blue Worth city-wise and and so they have water, sewer, they have an interstate that borders them. They have a They have, you know, 169. There's a highway running through. Yeah. Yeah. But but so if we are going to modify the range, I'd be I'd be just not that we'd be paying it, but if you went 100 to 145, that gives you a little more wiggle room to work with. And that would in theory theory take into account, you know, there's different parts. I understand like a small community with public transportation and having, you know, the city pool and city water and sewer, that's more more responsibilities for the administrator. I I do like the range where you're bringing up uh basically plus or minus 15,000. So just say we agreed on 120 or 125 would be the average. You would bump up 15 and down 15 is your range. Something like that. I also take a look at the last salary we were paying was 118. Um so my vote would be to come in at 125 and take 5,000 off due to some lower a little bit lower responsibilities. But that's kind of the concept I'm looking at. So you would want to you would want to start and here again this is just you know recommendation here. I want to I want to make sure you're as successful in your marketing as as possible. So So you would suggest have the bottom of the range at 115? I would say no. 125 would be my average. I would minus 15,000. My bottom range would be 110. The top of the range would be 140. Now again, I don't have council approval. This is just Shane talking here, but something like that where you're you're removing a little bit from the average of the 10 cities, but it's also an increase in wage from where we were at before. So you're saying the the average is one. So your target might be 125. That would be the average target 125. So you want the average at 125. So 110 to 140. Is that that's I mean the math I'm using. Yeah. I I I'm thinking that what I'm trying to say is looking at where where we're at and and what we know. I mean, Kenyons while they have water and sewer, I mean, it's much smaller and I mean, you're pretty pretty large from that standpoint. I'm fine with Kenyon has electric they're an electric utility as well, right? But it's but if you compare it to Credit River um who has you know 800 more people than us uh we're falling almost directly in that range minus $5,000. So I I think it does fit the concept of the overall Yeah. I'm here again I'm it's it's re just recommendation. I'm here to make sure we do what you want and we're we're successful. And yeah, I I I think you if I think if we I would I would just put the range in at 110 to 140. Yep. And that's what I would recommend. I think that makes sense. And we're looking for a great city administrator, no doubt. But uh with some growth room, I think they have to see that projection. So if they target at 125, they've got room for growth. I think that is important. We want to maintain this person for a long time, right? We're looking to really bring stability and um stabilize and that's and that's you know what I want to say. You want to get someone that can see they have advancement capabilities that that the council's thought about as they move. And you know I what I'm seeing in the market right now and talking to younger folks is f five to seven years is what you can expect and they and it's all about okay I want to get out while we're getting along and things are good and you know there's not a lot of dinosaurs out there like me anymore that want to be anywhere 25 years. They just they don't. five to seven years would meet the requirement though. That's very good stability. We haven't had that in the last 10 years. I'll tell you that. And you know, one of the things I do a lot and I don't consider this outstate. I I mean I work and what I hear from young kids is that when they're looking to move whether they're a community development director and uh Farmington or a finance director in Farmington and they want to move to a city administrator, they want to stay in the metro area because their spouse um by the same you know All they have to do, all it does is add to their commute. They don't have to sell a house and move and that sort of Yeah, that's that's what I have and I'm the rest is just questions on process, that sort of thing. And so, council, do we have any more questions for uh for Mike about yourself, Mr. Boils? Any questions? No. One of the things though that sticks with that stuck is I would f circumstances. You can turn your mic on please. Spoken to to candidates and people in like circumstances and and what seems to account most for differences in communities uh large and small. And what I the thing that I I keep remembering is that really many of the requirements that the small city has the large city has too. The advantage of course is the large city's got a lot more resource to fill out. Um because all of these incredible number of reports that you have to provide to various entities are as due for us as for anyone else. So it is something to keep in mind. You don't have a full finance department. You do and I think it works well. You do have a consultant for that purpose. I think you you do have a good mix of consultants to parttime workers and employers see. Thank you, Mr. Poles. Any other questions from the council? Right. Can I get a motion to adjourn the meeting? Motion to adjourn. Second. All right. It's just as quick as that. All right. Meeting adjourned.