all not all right so we're going into next is Code Compliance process and action items again you know I understand this just got to us last of the last week may or may not have gotten through it over the weekend um as as I was reading it I'm understanding the first section is the the table of contents a through H and then action items a through b second part of the details of those contents as I went through I WR down a number of questions and as Scott and I were talking briefly before the meeting here now obviously we do not this is an informational so we're not expecting answers tonight to these questions and these may not be all the questions but we need to to say what are we asking staff to do what information we need to do to be able to approve these action steps so my intent going with this is ask the questions find out what we know and what we don't know and then if staff have to go back and say okay here's what we believe the answer to that question is because there's a there's a number of things because other than D we don't all have codes of and so some of these things will jump out is because we don't know what codes are that that Mak sense ising speak so that being said table of contents being first section on page top page one um so decisions and actions need needed for R River Consultants to start Code Compliance so when we retained R River Consulting we moved Code Compliance from the planner two Rum River Code Compliance has been in a offline mode for a while probably two years since we updated our rec year lot of stuff on the Code Compliance spreadsheet is years old some of it is 22 years old back from the city so there will be some discussion what we do with that this that's not on our topic tonight but we want to make sure that if nor river is going to take over a portion of the Code Compliance we understand what the process would be what the potential cost would be the internal process and then the third party process and as I understand it l River would only be doing those things that would be in our zoning Oran so code issues there anything in our administrative and law anything in our administrative section of our codes or the nuisance sections that any other it says administrative they they will be doing they will be doing those as well yes they they will likely not be doing zoning by they will be handling um code complaints for excessive Vehicles excessive number of chickens um exotic animals um those types of complaints however I will say they're open to doing what now then needs so just a little bit more background we met with Rum River consultants and sending Ash last week to go over um high level what needs to be done um so rer can do what now then needs to be done however now then needs to give them Direction here's the codes we want me to enforce here's how to enforce it here's the letters that H to the refence here's when we want you to do a drive by to confirm a violation Etc so that's in essence what this list is what now then needs to determine this action steps are po compliance so start so who will do these zoning so that's part of the discussion so um Rum River was going through our existing code and I think Cindy had as well and noticed that there are a lot of things in the zoning section that wouldn't typically be in a zoning orance um lighting animal sh card those are three of the examples of things that are currently in now EV then zoning ordinance that really shouldn't be in a zoning ordinance they should be in a general or Nuance section so um they would like Direction and approval if we want them to go through if we want Cindy to go through line by line and say these are my recommendations for items to be removed from zoning um and hold a public hearing she wants approval from the council to do that at her hourly wage before she just starts going and making suggestions same with Rum River they can help propose once those items are out of zoning here's how we would draft them to be in your general or your Nu section that they want approval as well because they yes so you go first review zoning give us your recommendations then we'll pass it off to r m to help draft the propos do we have a new section or is it all right now we did but was they're in different areas of where they should be located according to what we have been been shared with us so the three example we don't know how many items might be this J we have a clu as to how many and curs look through this between collaborative planning and Rum River you have any clue as to how many types of things might be shifting categories from their initial review it seems like at least five but I don't think they've done a line by line deep Di [Music] so how do they determine junkyards would seem to be a code how do they determine what's code in general um that I don't know my understanding from our brief conversation was zoning should really be when you are almost building the property setbacks are X um the um when you're building the property ongoing things like having an animal um they're saying is not but I don't know the exact but don't we have those or under like building codes and ordinances and then we have then we have ordinances regarding properties and and ordinances regarding different things and so that's the thing that is interesting it's like because how I'm curious as the same thing is how are you separating that because and how will they separate it and will it come under the same things that we have as far as enforcement Will They Se that or will you know all those questions if we're going to take them out where are they going to go and do that that we have Z then and then it gets into moving dwellings lining and Excavating use of dynamite certificate occupancy and then it does get into junkyard animals exterior storage but then it goes right back to development standards for commercial and and housing standards and lighting regulations so they're kind of so it just mean that it need to be kind of cleaned up and separated separated yeah yes and the one example that was brought up is anything that's in your zoning ordinance can be grandfathered in so the example that is just an example was if there were suddenly a lot of complaints that a bar had music going until 2 a.m. um and there isn't an ordinance that says you can't play music on an external speaker that doesn't exist in the code today so now then were to install an ordinance that said you can't play music on an external speaker after 11: p.m. if that were in the zoning ordinance then that bar that's when receiving all the complaints is grandfathered in and they can play music as loud as they want whenever they want because zoning ordinances are Grand in if it's in the general nuisance coordinates that's affected immediately for all all properties that was the given that again so if we don't have zoning ordinance that restricts that again if you were to have that ordinance be in zoning because that bar was built before the ordinance went into effect April 1st 2024 their grandfather in okay so you're saying let's say now we're starting to get complaints about lot of yes and we decided to put something in the zoning rather than nuisance section now which makes sense right it's like all of a sudden we decide we don't like homes you're not going to Mo everybody go back and work right new houses going forward need to have that sell the bar then it would be apply to any owners but it apply to De I'm going to try and avoid getting into the leads Reas but what I thought I recall maybe our Jo at one point saying nuisance issues are hard to enforce maybe it was our chff how do so put it and take some of these things either out or have them because we going through say we don't have some of these things we really should have might use it we don't have anything currently it says your neighbors can't keep the rock hand until sometimes Myers do add that to a Nuance how how do we enforce that and Rum River had suggested adding it to j instead of then that might be the reason why General ordinances are easier to enforce potentially than ordinances so so one of the things that I'm I'm hoping to accomplish today is we can give some directive to say where do we need more information but right now I'm hearing General category nuisance category zoning are there any other category besides that that we be putting these audiances into that's not that has not been disussed for rub R to take on C no there one crossover to the other they should decide which one it is I didn't know if we already had some well I now it sounds like they're all a lot of them in this so one of the first questions I would have is how many sections of the code are we posing now General and Zoning discussion saying how many categories right now the proposal is just to remove non- zoning items from zoning and either creating a general category because there isn't a general category right now for updating the nuisance C there is number letter C on the list is to review all current nuisances so that the nuisance section does need review as well the one follow immediately was um our Na's nuisance says if you have two or more unlicensed vehicle that's a code violation R River said they believe that's been changed at a state level that can't be a violation just because there's a car that doesn't have a valid registration that's no longer able to be something that can be complained about as a nuisance so the thought was if on their initial review they already found something that just off the top of their head they thought oh pretty sure that that can't be done anymore nobody's sure when the last time the nuisances were reviewed to see are they relevant and are they still up to sa STS an I says any vehicle has to be licensed and operable which will includ in conditions prace these if we do it as an i as opposed to part of the general or nuisance code I'm not familiar with the I process all right so back to item a we moove all non zoning items from zoning section we have three examples here that somebody came yes so we have no no idea how many more correct so the proposal is to allow to have somebody review in detail the current loaning ordinances for the city of Na to make recommendations of items to and proposal for so r95 $100 [Music] I'm just so how long yeah so my question how much time and money do we anticipate this being mean we're just WR ch right right detail report let you know is let know is what can we find that can we question Mr I don't know how the arrangements are um would it be something where we could say we would like you to do a 2hour review of the zoning ordinances and call out anything you know is not typically in the zoning ordinance I don't let me ask you a question when in speaking with them when they were looking at this obviously there was a conversation there so and they're noticing all this did they give you any indication as to if they wanted to do this want that would take that or anything okay they and they've already looked at it obviously because they were able to pick a few out River has I don't know the extent of how much Sydney has repe I I believe that was something that she and I think I heard even the attorney looked over the zoning ordinances so some of some of this may hopefully have already started our meeting was cut short so this was discuss with okay our city C there how much of that is falls under chapter just chapter one so all those other are consider General 1 through 10us 7 and 8 right now mying is none of these are considered General because they all have specifically topics so I believe the proposal is taken something like chapter seven which is just the word reserve and potentially making that into in general okay so what would happen to these that are chapters one through six right now they be gone through to say we should pull them out of this I'm trying I'm trying to picture how how big this might be so we have one through six couple of Reserve spots for things that we going to come out in the future and then n and 10 11 is the zone so proposal just go 11 or all 11 to start and the nuisances I can you go back down for a minute you got zoning ordinance under 11 you got subdivision ordinance under 10 you building regulations aren't building regulations and subdivision ordinances already in your that's say right that's what I my thought would be Cindy should be should be or should have reviewed 91 and 11 since all of those would be what she's going to be working well would she be building would she be working building regulations I can understand as a planner I can see subdivision and [Music] Zoning that planner build istics sorry Riv doing our septics was as so potentially nine is just rum and so so nine would be rum riing because looking everything on that's what they said they would do we engage in post construction storm water management because previously the planner would go do that because maybe because our building official was not locally housed and nor River said we can do that we should be able to close out to occupancy So the plan didn't have to come back um this looks like so so let me go back to that if this is all river is this should this be part of zone I'm trying to figure out the structure here what category would this fall under it's not nuisance it's not General it's specific to building I don't think those are the three categories that there should be those are just the three that need to be addressed for them take on COD this I think should be addressed reviewed for compliance but not as part of Code Compliance as part of them being the building department okay so so let me back up a little bit here we're saying in order for them to pick up Code Compliance we've been sitting on Code Compliance for years limited activity and limited enurement City isn't burning down yet should we look at getting this all straightened out overall before we task them with code compliance because I would want to make sure that these six sections are tight and understandable to our residents looking in here you're talking about um making things searchable you know if we have something if we have things here this would apply to people that are looking to build out here I would like this to be searchable before too much inviting people to complain yeah I I agree that website you've been doing a great Jobing the website but I agree I mean it's very very very difficult on our ordinances and that should we that should be EAS if I can if you can just go fces boom but do we want to hold up getting Rum River in place to be able to do these until all these ordinances I mean there's ordinances in here chapter 4 you taking chapter s's blank chapter Four's Center Point Energy franchise Fe elicit discharge park rules and regulations need they're telling us these are the ones that they would like to spend the time on to be able to get up and running and in the right place in our ordinances so they can continue on of the cting so you're saying they just want to go through them to see what like take you just said chapter four so they want to look in chapter four and go this isn't us this is this this isn't us this is this or just stay on what what I'm hearing though is is they're looking to identify things that they can then hold people accountable on their toen PLS so yes so we're going to create a complaint form here and we're going to identify how often we um update finds so we're we're going to create a complaint law and say every week you're going to we're going to up the find and eventually we're going to thr this to attorney that we can't get a bill from and I'm just I don't know if things are concerning enough right now that we want to increase that workload paying $100 an hour to somebody to enforce complaints that we're going to open up saying now more people can now you have searchable codes and you can go and say my neighbors aren't complying with these codes and I have a little I can quickly check a box and put this in the system and somebody on staff's can review it and they're going to say yeah that's a violation they going to hand over R river river is going to start I was looking at it a different way I was looking at it when I'm looking for a greenhouse for instance and I have to go in and I want to hit greenhouse and see what I'm supposed to do that's that's what I'm saying we can get that part there first like well reading the documents we have here this is um bring a check box for common complaints a SN to spreadsheet how can residents Adit complaints e sign online and person a vand so now we make it searchable and you can start going yeah like neighbor doing I just went through the easily search File I want to clean up the doc before we offer PLS that's what weing right our action item tonight is complaint forms and so so this this is what grum River needs before they can start enforcing codes before they will go out and take pictures from the RightWay send a notice of potential code violation before they start sending citation letters that say you violated this code we're going to charge you $200 every x amount days that's this needs to be done before they can do that so so let me let me ask this to the council is that a AR concern for the council right now we haven't been doing much of it we have this ancient log that we have there every once go out and pick a few tires and charge a few dollars um and R river is just started with us two weeks ago and my concern is we have this new building it's now also going to be responsible for Code Compliance which is pretty Loosey Goosey right now because we haven't cleaned up the C I'm going to say same guy same firm that's coming out here working with your building is coming out here and slapping you with fines or some complaint that some there still be complaint somebody's going to say hey I EAS I can search the codes andine docent complain and and as as I read this the proposal would be um somebody on staff will have to log a complaint in the internal log if it's in person of by phone he sign an assuming you have go to automatically no but it would send the form back to okay so somebody in the city is going to have to log this into an internal log somebody in the city is going to have to review the validity against our now van hope sech um if the complaint is not a violation of the city code whatever this code ends up being somebody in the city has to notify the complaintant if the complaint is a violation of city code then it gets fed to the city administrator and the city administrator do contacts the resident or drives by for a visual confination and there again one of the problems we've had is nobody came out and looked to see if I really had this violation so if you call me up and say Hey you might have a violation I don't think I do so somebody's going to have to come up there and see this and right now we're saying Scott's going run on the city responding to all these complaints if Scott goes out there and says it is a violation then he sends it to The Rum River and we get into this process of site visit notice sent out by R River citation citation letter I'm assume by administrative notice letter sent out attorney involvement in a batement by the city which is caus by us that we can only get back by assessing Fe to the propit I can say that I like the fact that things go over Scott's desk I think it created something when you all went I I wasn't on Council and that happened but I was in the audience and I watched it because we had had a problem in the past and it's complaint driven and everything right now but it comes to your dust and you get to decide is this something that I see as a complaint or sometimes you get to just talk to someone and they don't even know that it was or they just moved on their property so it it's reaching it's coming over and it's making a bridge with someone already whereas if we change it and it becomes more of that you got them the neighbor against neighbor kind of thing that could created and you're you're taking out of the equation and so you know little bit there I don't like that that's not the event so everything will go through the administrator and then the administrator will decide yes this is a valid complaint it needs the letter S and finds of set but you also have the cou potatoes that now can do this the couch potatoes that sit there and they they complain because they can rather than making a phone call actually having to talk to we lose the we lose the Persona aspect of it people walk into the office I've been there myself where people will come in drive in and make a complaint that's a lot different than if they can just do it on form they can do it on the form today so nothing is proposed to and that's what I'm saying right but I'm saying that that's what we're looking at is that um that that's going to go ahead and that's that's bringing our city to a point that it's less it's less of a IDE nebor talk right exactly I guess my question is Jeff brought up B concs so what is the D nothing P what changes from today everything rolls through sky and he's got to do the research understand if it's a viable compl and go all so do you think that today's approach is unmanageable for the next 6 months 10 months 12 months or probably some period I tend to agree we've got a brand new planner and a brand new [Music] um also building it feels like the last thing we should do is you know pour a little gasoline on what was pretty good fire that we just managed to put out so Scott do you feel you are overburdened with anything right now with that um the the change I guess the question I was asked is what will change if I beam it so I can't go on the property I can go by from the road I can take a they're not contacting me they're not getting back to me I don't have an Next Step typically that would get hand it off and we start to the process if we're not going to have rum we're doing Code Compliance I can do all that then where we around no one is there now you have a complaint process in place now like is there object is there issues of using the existing and it's just hand what does that mean in handing there hasn't been a whole lot um the on we've been getting our road complaints all have or some call in again ask about chickens or something like that or got a dog again and it's just been able to explain I'm just saying explain it way to the president I'm just saying if we get PS at if we if we're going to try to clean up that list at all or if you decide you're just going to like that c um and we start fresh um that that's one approach but I'm just asking is the expectation of C them for me to um WRA letters and start citing people internally so I haven't been doing that this point if if it got to the point where it needed to be Code Compliance then it was going to Liz at that and then my understanding was Code Compliance once it gets past me was going to be going to rout when approached remember to talk about it they said these are the things that we'd like to get cleaned up this is how we've done it other City ities this is what they have other and this is what our process that do through this so that was the meeting we had last week and we want bring C and say and there's a lot more you still has to talk about um as far as how how often at what frequency does the council want to see it how what's the dollar for this ucation do we Max it out do we continue to let it ride if they not giving back to us and and then talking to Rem River they're all doing our C compliance there in the area nearby you can come over do some very Qui and and put people in the process which right now will be on Google Docs but by the end of the year be in BB sobody attracting me through their website so by the end of the year be that's January 2025 is the so back to Jason's point my point um if we continue as it currently is and and we know from the long that we have very and and at certain points where certain repeat violators uh we would assess a fine against them in the fall to the taxes well through the year they be being assessed with crer but at the end Yes again come to this point what is what is the cost of City doing something what we'd be assessing then is the cost of the city the whole point of how much we charge and how often to charge a de two weeks whatever that is was to cover our expenses primarily compliance try to get compliance but basically when it came down to it when we decide how much to assess it generally was what the costess what did we put into this realistically and that's what we should be sessing if we're trying to be coercive and work with us we're going to try do everything that cost us and then a little bit more as a penalty or making sure that we've covered all of our cost is to include any attorney fees any other professional fees in addition to whatever the office is putting and we we need to make sure we have something there that's really realistic to say how often should these be assessed what are they how often should be assessed to me is is a question we need research and say what's the cost because we don't want we don't want to be vindictive to people and we don't want to be charging them more and it's costing us we don't to be charging them less than but to me as as I look at this list of notes I have on here when to determine the order and time frame action St we don't have a documentation of our current we don't have any type of flowchart current and propos so right now somebody does a site visit somebody sends out a notice potential code viol is this site visit for one that's down here in h contact City administrat contacts residence d by for visual confirmation or is this something subsequent to that that R river that goes out does their own site business at $100 an hour I mean is my understanding is R has one price they don't have some subordinate go out there buiness it's their $100 an hour they can drive down here and maybe do a site visit in 15 or 30 minutes but but who does the site visit and then notice of potential code violation is this something that rather than paying $100 an hour it's the letter can be sent out from the office it's it's going to be a fairly standard template with fill in the blank of the code language but the rest of it is a boiler Liz to send that um potential Cod violation if you're not getting a response then this would we used to call an nicy nice letter if you're not getting a response then a citation letter goes out is there a consequence to the C letter is there a consequence you know if we're not getting a response to citation letter there's a administrative notes letter so it sounds like a a notice letter is more severe than a citation letter because a citation typically has a cost to administrative notice letter what is the difference in citation so in my expectation we would have examples of these as they currently exist so I think the currently exist part is where it gets difficult um I worked with Liz during her last week here and she sent me what what she had so I have examples of those letters that she had sent out to a particular l so there isn't like a template but I have a letter of a citation that went out to Mr John so I have examples of three letters that were sent out to Residents with there isn't really a template I didn't receive anything that said I send out a nicey nice letter if I don't hear back from them 30 days later I send the notice letter if I don't he back from them I that's fine 15 days later there there wasn't anything concrete that was happening so it's hard it's hard for me to capture current process and from what I've heard there wasn't one Standard Concrete process this is done on this day 15 days later this is done 20 days later this is done which is why3 our process in which chapter chapter one se five3 you can't look the big one it's not in full one because we amended it put in the letter shall be sent out time to be set up to 15-day calendar days from the date of the letter to do all that forite inspection all evidence administrator noticed that the Violator has 15 days to correct orate the code violation so that's chapter section chapter one section 5 what3 so this is what the city code yeah but you're looking at the whole chapter one not the amended where am in City should be in City Cod ising there there's there's chapter one that was written then chapter one was amended twice we amended the policy and procedure in 2018 so there's an amended ordinance where you the big that was passed and signed by Jeff mayor Jeff Pon that is part of the problem I'm not denying it but I'm just saying we we need to keep our code current so absolutely let me ask what's your meaning there Dan how does that differ than what's got on the screen chapter one or it starts out saying that there's an administrative not wait there a notification of a potential city code violation so there's 13 procedure appication potential city code okay so far we're we're in the same boat yes okay next administrative notice and next would be an administrator notice that's one A and B and two three and then [Music] citation yeah so okay so that potentially is has been updated then from what I have I don't know when it was C by this is great I didn't I have not read through the code line there's no seal feat that's the problem yeah very but that is but that is another part of the problem this is the code that's on the website and then looking through the internal Shar drives this is what I've found but I don't there isn't a a copy of this is the cified ordinances effective right now it's kind of all over the place and I think that's one things that needs I know there's other changes thaten been C yes that's one of the next questions I don't know okay let's not get off that that's yeah another rad so so then citation next would be administrative notice keep keep scrolling citation responding to a citation payment hearing officer where is this administrative notice how many wars do we get I mean that seems [Music] like so I'm looking here so everything follows down to [Music] administrative all right so we have notice potential code violation we have F either BC in there not have D or F nor do we say anything about a so it'd be good to take what we currently have so so my question is is again is this something that okay so in this case 5153 site visit is part of but that being said my my concern is how much of this makes sense to Outsource to a third party that historically hasn't had the residence of now then as they Prim cons as good as rum is they have 15 cities know how many cities they are representing right they have a lot of cities they're representing so how much of this can we clean up how much of this need to be done the1 or $150 an hour right and then we just discovered it's still not up to date yes he's saying that is the same as he's got that is the same yes yeah but again this only came up the end of last week so J hasn't been assigned to go through this like she has been the policy right this came up when did when was the meeting with r Mt and lab Tuesday so last Tu this is not a week so we're looking at a process but we haven't got a chance to go through what exists and and my my note on here is what's the current process any we look at that we're we're being asked to come up with something new but we already have something that we can build on was because it says here's here's the and here's the theree at one point between 2017 and 18 that there was a meeting [Laughter] plann there it feels like we're in that rabit so hard so like what do we think the next steps you said we don't want to pay 130 bucks an hour to go do this it feels like do we assign gen hey review chapter one chapter 9 10 and 11 and start there or do we say status quo for six months and let's see how this new team actually works with a few of our residents to see if if we went plus or minus on the um resident a scorecard in terms of how to interact with city planner and a new inspector team and at the same time we see things go up Z well I mean his limitation is they came they come in and unless we change something with we give him the authorization to perform site inspections can't do anything a minute call you make a call that would be the same as it is today right um but we don't have anybody that can say somebody call they got they got a junk they got a junk it's not C and you can't pull you can't see drive fast and build out what do you right rers saying they won't get right now until this entire procedure is done I don't know if they necessarily said they wouldn't take it but they wanted to be able to put things in proper alignment in our code they were trying to help us by moving things in the right areas and they said they'd be willing to work with us to put this you know step by step in place in conjunction with gen what we already have right now that we utilize L to some extent right that and now you know what we're looking at right here they were willing to come on board and help us put this together so that there was some community in theice question here the currently this would all be on Google Docs Bas on the Baseline proprietary product January 2025 Who currently interested in Google Box nobody that's how R River does their okay so they're they're not cities they're doing Pro compliance for are not Buton when you push the button today this appears so it fill it out bring it in so one of the options is to move it to a Google doc so that it is more fillable it can require an email address so we at least know that you have a valid email address for them would also then be in this format so that they could choose these are the most common complaints that existed for 2023 so that they could select as opposed to just typing out my neighbor's house is yellow and I don't like it we give them common ordinances and then they could fill this out it would go back into info at now then so everybody have access to it and then it would create this cute little chart in real time so that we can see the most common violations and then it does create a Str as well hope so if that's the case somebody fills us out people have toidentify do that is this subject to Da practices and somebody come and say I want to see the if this is the electronic spreadsheet for spre you information question be ask can res come in this couldn't do to that isn't that exactly what you're saying manal I don't think they could they we can't get the data request to get formal complaint and know who it is not we when I work at mie before when those complaints do we redact the name and the address and all that of the person but they can actually see what ver so even if they so even if they asked for a data request all that would be redacted they still could be see who did it right well I think the question I understanding mayor's question is could they put a for that whole spreadsheet then right now the Complaint Form that comes in is not part of request data request you don't have to give the name at this point that's true if they did a formal data request for a Google do which is a completely different thing which I don't know the answer to that think that's what they get the whole document and the I would imagine would fall no different than that but it's something like can certainly it would be no different than the from icted now if they ask for that she is there is the concern that it comes in electronically versus a hand written piece of paper I think it's because the concern going to be would be you may have 20 different different things on that spreadsheet right right but I think I'm I'm trying to trying to parse out is the concern if we use it as Google Docs then we're held to different standards of getting there's a few different things one is yes would we be hold the different standards would someone be able to get somebody's name to the other thing would be yes if you there's so much on there so you've got a lot to fill out and the third is you're you're not having to bring it in you're not having to kind of be that neighbor that's okay now I got to go face someone can but just to clarify they're not we're not changing at all how complaints I receive that that part is not why can't we why can't we just pull out Li insert R River and follow the same process for f day PL comes in Scott vs it Scott does initial check gets to a certain point R River and need you to go check this out for this code and it is this code and this code only it's not pre on everything in the code book go out and check this come back and report we have a citation process and a timeline that's that's up there and if there is a viable legitimate complaint that can't be resolved we follow today's uh uh citation process and it's at least what we had before I think we're people are frustrated is it wasn't necessarily always assistant and you didn't necessarily know when someone f a complaint the complaint has got to be I don't like the writing track because it's a nuisance violation of noise that's the issue and it's not when I go out to look at the riding Track by the way there's 60 votes out here in a container and there's it's we got to get back was what like what is you told us ring track we went out there motorcycles or ATS not an issue next and we start there that would be my and then we see how this thing goes if we really need to get to the next level of having having river through all of our and rearrange them all I think we get a better feel for what that cost me but I don't know what I'm ready just to say here's 20 hours go after spend some money I think it's Scott process today to a certain point he's going to hand it off a r says go check for this ordinance I this is what I want you to check come back and Report out violation here's the citation process and timeline that's in our policies follow that because Jen just stated a little bit ago for run to continue they mo to this is what to do is here is the code that we have today I totally agree it may not be to what you see with other CI but we're not ready to spend 2530 hours we wna dance how to know your job before we start by defining what is going on we know what's in ources um let's at least capture that process flow so that everybody because our previous planner was um it appeared was inconsistent with process so let's let's first take baby steps and say let's define the process as it currently exist if they want to apply it um and then we can say okay how does this fit with what we can do versus what we pay some $100 an hour to do can we send out that person we so let's take a look at what is the current process of who should be doing it and then Ron River came back to us and say is that a you want to change versus we really can't do this for you until you change this I'm I'm not hearing a clear consensus on that they're saying we need to do these first that's what they would like I mean there are certain things that they will have to have if they're going to send a letter on they have to have that letter so are how often they're assed and it seems like find them now that we have that if we agree that we have to agree we really going to do this find them every 15 days or 14 days because we got some big finds we have to see what's effective and what we're going to yeah be more consistent agress understand of consequences that because previous M that may not have been following that said yeah I visited every six weeks or six months and and here's they're making a reasonable effort so slide or whatever we had that question we did the assessments last year why is this one 4,800 and this one's 200 and that's the only time I visited and Ander sorry and some she was willing to work with and everybody got treated the same we start treating every the same we can see a lot of high points so I think we should take a look and say what would be the consequence if people didn't respond um so before we're coming up on 8:00 here there's I think we need to give direction of the next steps but there was there were some ordinances item D on our first page here 2023 city ordinances we need to confirm whether they've been codified and moved into the code ms4 THC cannabis morium lawful gambling ex Pati and maybe others um they appear to be on the web but we don't know if they're currently in COD can you talk to us about that yes and and again I'm not familiar with the process all I know is they are liter physically on the website uh in a separate section than the city code so I don't know if these belong in the code so I don't believe that has happened I cannot find Happ the Cod so this is amending chapters 493 okay but I don't know how far back we haven't done all the codification the last codification I can reasona see is 2018 but I don't know I haven't I haven't gone again I haven't gone through any of this so sh when you came and work that day in the office you now she's reti there go got extra guest yes I was and it was it was I was doing the same thing I things were not where they were supposed to be they a lot of things were not um there were Council actions that were done that were never followed through with um there was um I mean it was find it was like I was excited when I actually found something I was like oh J we actually that's what it were supp so yeah so so in this we need we need a paint by numbers it says when an ordinance is passed by the council ordinance amending chapters 4 and9 we need to know who is going to do what by when so sounds like this got done but nobody was responsible for or identified as who Now updates our city code and literally make sure that our electronic and hard copies on cir I would I would assume if we're updating our code there would be a copy to all the Commissioners as well going to codes well it hasn't been done in years so action item out of D would be what is the process to take things that the council has approved and make sure they're in the the cified and mo to code and then I think what you were saying D we should probably go back and look at 2022 2021 just see what else Jeff and Jason don't remember it being well see that's the problem once we get to this once we get this I think that's what Shanny found is the assumption is it got passed by the council right and it wasn't some of them weren't we sign off great we sign off so it was I used to get that all the time I just sit there things get in front of me I this is 6 years old oh yeah just never got signed um so that's the challenge that I have is I'm trying to look through electronic SE I know things have been pass so I would I would like to hold off on the electronic complaint one until we have some stability in this process and I'm assum we can letters and templ yes okay so find the process for D how we take things that are by the council cify them move them tood specifically these that are here and anything else going back in8 we need that put on this list um the an action item would be to take the existing letters and what we identified in section 5153 and make those boorder plates to plug in or if something does come up we have some terminology that we can do one of the things we had said when when C compliance spreadsheet got on up is let's let's focus on health and safety issues but there's a violation that is safety related or health related person set as well that's something we have to time to which is all different than sending to outome chickens right so if we can keep it to health and safet at this point while River stabilizes as building officials and and collaborative stabilizes in the planner and we identify them what these processes are because if we're going to talk about violation again my depends on severity violation we going to find somebody the same as the health and safety issue versus too many CHS and that that ordinance has to be redone anyway because it doesn't make sense you can go both ways we can have 85 chickens on five I'm not I was like or you could have big yeah right 100 you could read it three acres yeah doesn't say so is one of the action items for somebody to at least read the existing nuisances and and call out things like I I read it I honestly can't tell if I have like to just read it I don't know the last time I think we're just going to go with health and safety right I mean isn't that well I I think I think that for the complaint at this point because again that Law's been sitting item for a while was updated occasionally to assess I think that yes it's s and safety we should be responding but to jev's point I think that some of these go through and say this doesn't make sense for why is this where it is well the thing want to pay somebody $100 an hour $130 an hour or 25 and 35 an hour well the nice thing though is is when you are going through something and you go this doesn't make sense then that can go maybe Council needs to go over the chicken or just a list of oh okay FL that one having somebody do this all the time got some Advantage saying I was a res I could fig well these are the things that I get called that and that's why I know about the chicken doesn't make sense so the question is so we can wrap up here does does this make sense to have somebody internally do this versus the higher price external it's Noto I think there are certain things that we should easily be able to take counil and to to get assistance from the C on there's definitely several that we can go through and combine and consolidate and make somewhat reasonable changes to know stuff before we engage higher professions okay we got as far as we could internally and'll help us just just thetically be rewarding it and making addends and asking coun and least we're all working the same I think at least formatting just having it be add documents instead of right now I found at least 16 separate PDF yeah B the bind and was no structure around when they got put in modified that your last it additions standard yes and I don't know these are PDFs or appear in 2018 so we can convert them so that they're editable but I haven't been able to find any do we have the do do we have the board dots I have not been able to got so that's that's what I'm saying like physically we just we need to convert these PDFs into something that you have Adobe right full Adobe license confident I'm pretty sure in Adobe there's say make this work out can yeah so so we need to take we need to take the 18 convert them all combine them into one add bookmarks add table of contents add and just somebody needs to just do that so you have two weeks left this week week a week and a half week and a half how much of this how much of this got I'm go direct how much of this thing you can do a week and a half if this was I don't know Scott you mentioned in your last update that you talked about projects before the recess and and then what the expectations are after The Recess does this understanding we need to get this cleaned up before we have River engaged does this fit with what you had plan for J next week and a half it needs to be what would jeopardize that she planed next week and a half if she had to do this but there were things that we all the stuff that was on her update that um her and I went through that weren't quite across finish line yet some easy ones were the uh or right that was one of the things that we wanted to get across make sure that the sign there were there certain ones that we had that that I wanted to to make sure that we got across the finish lane before she left so when she came back that week could started cleaning um those were a lot of that stuff was probably some smaller stuff that we could probably do uh but this has quickly moved to the to so can we ask we shift things to be reevaluate what are the quick things that could be done and how much of this could be done for sure the next week and a half one are you next week I'll be in this Thursday and then next Tuesday and THS would the council be okay if I sat in with Jen next week just to kind of look at some things so I can while she's gone I might be able to then take some of this project just to look at the or thank you I mean because I'll been doing things at check and something like that just to make sure that if there's going to be three people on site just post there could be three Cil members onite there before 3:00 it will not be a problem I will not and if anything I can work with as long as there's there's a computer available at the office that I can get on and try to work some stuff to to figure that out and or if there are time somebody with an ad Liu I don't did you pass it on we don't have Adobe licenses for everybody do you have where are are the two right but talked about getting Le oh she wouldn't with the you rem what'll figure nonobe Adobe that's do so what we did find with that is when we do the conversion sometimes a whole formatting goes away you know a good way and that might be part of this is we might have to shortcut some of it just to get it into work have to give you a almost to get you the right you need it yeah yeah and we can just the entry no right so okay there's companies I mean like you spent hours trying to figure out just had all the stuff since sent out and scan right yeah so there's got to Bean that can take all this convert it even in the right format so then we have to know we just have to find what's s so but we have the 2023 ordinances so 2022 that we need to find all right so let's let's wrap up the action items here strug in theice so so for right now just because I do all Sun Back Field R River and Cindy n there's no action needed from either of them at this time well I think the question is are they able to take the Code Compliance per after if we're if we're going to do it in-house from A to Z that's one thing or Scott going to look at it so far and then go okay yep it's a problem and then hand is Will to take it from there that's what we have to that's what we if we needed to hand that off to them can we hand it off to them with the codes the way they are because right now in the letters that were being sent out those all at on is cut the past out of the ordinance put in the letter this is for year not in compliance with I don't know the answer but we can the hard part about that is that's the GU in trouble people because we didn't Target it to what the complaint was sent the whole ordinance what are you charging me and we put the attorney's name on the bottom of so yeah that's that's have to be created that will stay exactly what isue this but all the river would be from not and the fence would be our code so they could cut and P out need either the format that we have internally or their format or a combination right now IMD is I mean I think I feel like kind of come full circle originally we had talked about what we need for round to take it on we're saying we do want them to take it on once we've done our internal part however we want them to take it on with the code as it ex right and create a template so then the again ex me I think we need to create the template that's what we found previous planner is what you was W to do is was more aggressive than and having talk with r River they would tend to be more aggressive too it's very black okay so I think we need to develop the template this is what council this is the tone that we want to communicate and then um confirming that what is in the code right now works for timeline looks like it's every 15 days steps and then the fees as they exist today and and I'm I'm going to say based on the inconsist inconsistency we had in the past and the anticipated consistency of un you're have some really big bills pretty quickly people jump and jumping I think we need to take a look at what the examples will be based on history how quickly thousands of dollars and there was a proposed cap because in the past it wasn't consistent you can easily hit $2,000 pretty quickly so one of the proposals was to cap 2,000 per year for a single and there again to me the violation of health and safety versus chickens $2,000 worth of chicken $2,000 worth of health and safety issue is not so immediately we're going to try and confirm over the past five years city ordinances have been cied move code and find what that process is going forward so we get this situation better we approve that's number one um the boiler plate for our SE [Music] 5153 as it exists today um and I think assessment we have discussion that looks like I don't think we can do that next I think the other thing would be to update the code format so we standardized the the document we we're going to standardize code format make sure all our ordinances from the past five years are cified and in the code and then work on Bo from the letters we need them and clean up the easy ones from the list youas that sound like a week and a half probably more than a week and a again first thing let's make sure our is that heav got that we standard format so at least we can all be looking at the same thing that question future perform of all the doc thees as they and then whatever can be done in the next week and have cleaning up the things that you have already and then looking at it place there something else that we talked about tonight anybody else talk was andin that you're available you're available can see what you can do and see what we can keep going in this in the period on the fees it's broken out into class A is $50 and Class B is 200 a say animal violations outlined in sections 3 and four of the city code what does that mean where's sections three and four and so I'm I'm here it says CL 50 an viations talking about it'sing 90% sure it's talking about chapter 11 and because that's where the animal stuff is in section four is say four um section three is my gu so I'm reading section three you're right section four has the right but under the world resal violations same chicken violations different I'm saying this says reinforc you're seeing animals underneath 11 that was my question under the ring as sctu for Prov all forms I is for boarding which is under Section who came up with this so that was one of the items that I just wanted to make sure if it needed to be reviewed and updated that that's on the I from professionals have to be and and that was part of it if we're going to send it to a new vendor we're going to start actually sending out letters every 15 days for the first time charging these fees I think it there's reviewing that this is what we want to do before we start doing it very regularly right still not seeing your dog stuff on anyway yes can I answer question this is again coming from not being super educated in this but I kind of hear a couple different things one is we want it all updated and current and into one document we kind of want code enforcement but not really because if somebody makes a complaint then we might do something and might not I if we can't find what we're looking for right here in the last five minutes how do we expect our residents to that's that's my that's that's my point to we clean it up maybe R River can go find it but we're not going to be able to back up we're not going to kind of conceive well our professionals found that but we're going to sit here when we assess people saying River nailed you with [Music] thisan but they'd only be nicking people for any of our Pokemon so they would have to find it in our clients and put it in the letter before they send it out right would be nice to have ours cleaned up so that some was getting a letter they could go find you too kind yeah kind of like what I was saying when I went through it like I would get the mall I brought up the greenhouse thing because I green and I'm trying to search the code because they can't find it and they're looking through it and they're just like I don't understand I just need to know and so I had a conversation with Scott I was looking through it and you'd look through something and you'd think you'd find something so then you'd send that I'm like hey check out this well then they check it out and I'd read for like no that's not it forget it that's not the right one and you know and they were looking too so it wasn't like wasn't wasn't doing what they wanted to do it was just difficult to find it so one of my things was with the website great job by the way because I can write something it comes it's the same kind of thing with those codes if I can write green houses and boom it comes up then I can look and see at least what it says only that I know I'm just saying that that would be well that's my angle is and and there are searchable features which are great we're also developing a frequently Asked question um which I think is going to be really great and it's going to have the top P so and Chris are writing down the top questions that getting on a regular best basis how many chickens can I have what are the fence setbacks because we shouldn't have to turn those questions out to our consultants if it's a black and white it's not black and white though that's the chicken but but but again if these are the frequently asked questions we should make right that's theice because it's not black and white for us and our Consultants have to figur it out 100% yeah and interpret it so let's look at theum ask questions make sure it's understandable and and repeatable and start there and then say okay both for planning and for building and for code I have three of them we should have frequently questions that the staff can answer they get a call we know how many buildings you property size you know to just keep giving out the planners phone at bucks a not say you got 10 acres go at you got five it's this if you got5 it's this I think the other that we strugle with is the consistency so and you know we have Farm sites that have one set of rules neighborhoods that have maybe a different set of rules and so you're trying to combine all that then we've had code enforcement that has Wild variabilities so and again based on how you is Define this we don't really have a great what is the what is today's process if it's every 15 days that we're going to be starting charge people for multiple hundred hundreds of dollars for multiple violations that might be a pause because that's GNA Cascade somewhere we probably not want to go so I I think it's like you said let's figure out what we say we do today you probably don't do that wellday what is the process what is that ticker and roll through all right somebody has chickens or five boats what does that actually you know look like and is that what we want if you tell them go and they go and this thing blows up then we get to we all feel that love mostly she yeah yeah exactly all right :30 all right you got enough to keep you busy for a week and a [Music] half Mo have weed