I never heard sales price. >> You're good. [clears throat] >> We'll open this session uh 10 February 2026. We'll start with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Miss Johnson, roll call, please. Mayor >> here. Council member Brian here. Council >> member Glazer here. Council member Rainbow >> here. remember Swanson >> here and I'm gonna go with [laughter] Banget. >> I always struggle with that. And myself, Natalie Johnson and that's >> all right. Well, call's complete. I'll look at approve the agenda. Any uh additions? So, there is a back page to the agenda. It's just a Comcast update. >> Mr. Mayor, >> go ahead. Take Go ahead, council. >> Um, I'm wondering if if council would consider moving engineering letter A, which is the only item on it, to consent. And then also under item B, letter A, monthly report, that that can just go to consent. So if I if I heard you correctly, you said five engineering move under consent and what was the other one that you wanted to move under consent? >> Planning and zoning letter A, the monthly report. >> Okay. Anybody any concern with that? >> Okay. I did want to bring up one more. Um, I know that 10G got added on here and I was wondering if we had new specific information. I didn't see it on the RCA that was brought up to be different than last time. >> So, it's in response to um Mr. Crater's complaint to the city and I believe he might be addressing that tonight as well. So, I would just like to readress this with the council. I don't want to take long, but um Mr. Mr. Mayor, I would like to move on claims to um new business. I just have a couple questions on some things. >> Sure. Is that one? >> Uh that is uh 3B. >> 3B. Also moving to um new business. So it'll be what each new business. Any concerns on that? Any other discussion for before we approve the agenda? Mr. Mayor, House Brian, if >> there is no other amendments, I make a motion to approve the agenda as amended. >> Second, you got a second. We have to do a roll call vote because uh Council Rainbow's gone. Um out of state, so you start us off. Council member Rainville, >> I >> I should say all those in favor. Okay. >> I swson. Thank you. Council member Ryan, >> I member. and I'm also not. Okay. So, the uh agenda is approved. We will open it up for the public forum. I'm I'm assuming you signed up, sir. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, open it up for the public forum. Uh I would request that you keep it to three minutes. Please state your name and address and come up to the podium and speak. >> Hello, my name is Brady Kger. I was at 6933 207th Avenue Northwest Elbert, Minnesota 55330 North side of Lake Pickro. I stopped and filed a complaint at the office that I do not like the new flag. I would like it taken down. It's my understanding that there is no requirement for a state flag to be flown. The discussion was to take down my understanding to take down the old flag because there was a complaint. Well, you took down the old flag. Good for you. Even though there were flags sitting in the city hall office, the I don't know. I don't want to call it a flag, but the customary flag of Minnesota. You had a few of them sitting there. You decided to take it down, go out and buy these new ones. It's money you didn't have to spend. These flags should not be flown. It's the Minnesota Somali flag. We all know that. We all know where the fraud is right now. and it's leaving a very bad taste and a lot of retested smells. As you can see, there's a lot of people here. But my point is, I would like you to revisit this. And since you were willing to take down the original flag on a complaint, when I filed my complaint, I received an email back. The matter had already been settled. No, that was about the old flag. This is about the new flag. It's not settled. I'd like a revote on it and I know how it's going to go. But that's okay because that's just going to expose you for who you are. We understand that when you ran originally, you ran as a conservative, not governing you that way so much for that matter. You don't like elections. You appointed a guy rather than let the election go when you had the money there to do it. Now, that's going to be a cudgel to say in the next election, and I hope that you're a one-term mayor. So, with that under consideration, I would ask that you think about that whether or not you want to be mayor a little longer. Because we will use it against you. Thank you. I appreciate your time. Hopefully, one or three minutes. >> Thank you for your time. Senator, would you like to come up and uh speak? You can have more than three minutes because you're not just a guest. You are a leader in the state. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the council, city staff, and the great residents of Nalden. It's my honor to come here and give a legislative preview. And so, I've been making my rounds. Yesterday, uh it was Oakrove and Antiggo. Tonight, it's now heading over to St. Michael. The additional four communities are Elbertville, Hanover, Elk River, and Rockford Township. And those eight communities make up our Senate District. So again, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I am here because the legislative session starts one week from today, February 17th. And there's an incredible amount of uh topics that are continuing to be part of the discussion as we lead up to the legislative session. So some of the dynamics that are at play here as we come into session, it is a very short session because traditionally in a funding year we start uh early part of January. We are now starting in the second half of February and that leaves us only I just had a meeting this morning with the chair of the housing committee. I'm the the minority lead on the housing committee and she said we only have eight meetings, eight sessions where we can come together as a committee before the the deadline and and the deadline she's referring to is the third deadline also uh known as when all the the bills that are in committees have to make their way through committees before they can be considered on the full Senate floor. That's Easter uh before the Easter recess. So we would come back then from the used to recess and have a dedicated floor session time of any and all bills that made its way through to the committees. So it's a very short session. The other dynamics are the entire legislature is up for reelection. So that's 134 representatives and 67 senators for a total of 201 members. So all 201 are up for re-election. Another dynamic is all four constitutional offices which are the governor, attorney general, secretary of state, state auditor, are up for reelection. The governor is now running for re-election, so he's a lame duck governor. And then one of the two US Senate seats is up for re-election state. So there'll be five statewide election seats. So there's a lot of uh dynamics of reelection, retirements, uh lame duck, grandstanding speeches uh that'll be occurring. So I fully anticipate that among the conversations we are in a bonding year. So last year was the finance year, the funding year. That's not this year. This is dedicated traditionally as the bonding year, the the odd years or the off years because we fund state government in two-year uh biome. So in the bonding there are a number of statewide projects that in my opinion uh do warrant bonding and state funding but they are infrastructure focused or or if they're not owned by the state they are re have a regional benefit to to the area and so I'm hoping that there will be some really good and robust discussions on those projects that meet that criteria either are stateowned and are infrastructure or have a regional benefit. We haven't had a bonding year or bonding bill in a couple years. So there there is some expenses and and assets that definitely need to have some attention. Uh fraud is obviously a huge conversation that that's been taking place throughout the state there. Uh what was a couple years ago, it started as a couple hundred million. Then the federal prosecutor came out and said he anticipates the total fraud might exceed or will exceed a billion dollars. And then it was roughly six or so months later, he came out and said he anticipates the total fraud would exceed $9 billion. And then President Trump about 3 weeks or so ago, he said he anticipates it'll be greater than $19 billion. So to put that into perspective, the in 2023, the state of Minnesota had an $18 billion budget surplus. And so the equivalent, if President Trump is correct, that the fraud could exceed 19 billion means that the equivalent of the entire budget surplus would have been lost to criminal fraud. And that has made a lot of people across the state of Minnesota very mad. And so that topic I I anticipate is going to be among the conversations. Uh the second amendment uh is going to be another topic. We've seen an executive order uh that the the governor did put out here in terms of screening for firearms that come into the capital. Well, we also have a state statute that permit to carry holders are allowed into the capital. So, even though there will be screening, those that are are permanent carry holders can still legally bring their firearms into the county. And then, uh yesterday I was at the Minneapolis Federal Reserve for a discussion on housing. So myself having a real estate background, the the topic of housing continues to be a very frustrating one because the there are people that are just not able to purchase a home. They're not able to afford rent. So housing and rent continue to become increasingly unaffordable for far too many. As a real estate agent, a couple years ago, well, I'll go back further than that. about 15 20 years ago, the average age of a firsttime home buyer, so think that three bedroomedroom, two bath or one and a half bath, uh two style garage, traditionally a first-time home buyer home, the average age was mid to late 20s. And then two years ago, that age because of the unaffordability moved to 38 years old. Now this year, that age is 40 years old. So the average age of a first-time home buyer is 40 years old. That is very frustrating because we know that real estate and home ownership is is a path to generational wealth. It is also uh for many families the largest asset that they would own. And so due to the unaffordability, there are a lot of people that cannot begin their lives with home ownership. And I was recently listening to some industry uh communications or podcasts on this topic. One of the things that was really alarming to me was that the age old definition of the American dream being home ownership, that definition for younger generations is beginning to change because they are are beginning to lose hope in their ability to even afford a home. That is very frightening because the the for most of us in this room, I suspect we're homeowners. We've been able to achieve that. It's frightening to think that the definition of the American dream is changing because people are losing hope in certain aspects. So, that topic is going to be one that we're going to continue to have. I just met this morning with the chair uh as I mentioned of housing and I hope we have a we have a really good working relationship and I'm hoping we can continue the the conversation on some of these dynamics. And one final piece I'll mention then is the HOA reform bill. So, you might recall I was the chief author of that in the Senate last year and successfully was able to get it to pass the Senate. It was over sent over to the House and it did they did not take action on that last year. We've been working in the interm and hopefully the house can the chief author is senator I'm sorry representative uh bonner and she's been working really hard to try to uh rally some support for that in that body and hopefully that'll pass and we can actually sign that into law which will bring some much needed reform to the abuses that are taking place in HOAs. So with that Mr. Mayor members of the council I certainly would stand for any questions if there are any. Sorry, I got one real quick. Just talking about the difference in and um I I fully agree with your study. I think it was somewhere around 2003 that home ownership was at the closest gap between um earned income and the cost of housing and it's just continued to separate since then. Do they have something that can bring those two back together? Is there is there any thoughts and could you share any thoughts on what could bring those two back together to make housing more affordable? >> For sure. No, absolutely. And that's a an a phenomenal question and one has to consider uh then what goes into the factors that are driving up home ownership. For most if you just say the mortgage there there's other metrics but let's just say the monthly mortgage payment. The monthly mortgage payment then consists of principal, interest, taxes and insurance. And so then what are the drivers that are feeding those four variables? Well, property taxes, as those continue to increase, that puts pressure on increasing the monthly pay. When it comes to insurance, that's a whole other uh ball of wax that is really crushing people across the state. Insurance has been double digits for a number of years now, rising, and it's really really hurting people, not only in the monthly payment, but also the deductibles, especially when it comes to wind and hail. So that being double digit increases year after year for a number of years is pushing up that monthly payment. Then we get to the interest rate. Well interest rates were right now I think for a 30-year owner occupied fix it's hovering around six maybe 6.25 in that area but even one year ago it was around 7 and a half 7.75. And so that has an incredible expense. So that those are putting incredible pressure. So how what would we do about that? Well, we have to see what can we do. What's what is driving up the cost of property taxes at the municipal level, at the county level. And I think one of the major drivers is mandates that are coming down to the state. So, the state has passed laws that are saying, "Hey, you school board, school districts, local municipalities, and counties, you have to do XYZ things, and by the way, you have to pay for it." Well, what that results in is you have to raise property taxes in order to to pay for those unfunded mandates. That's a problem. When it comes to insurance, we just don't have enough competition in the state. There's mult. But one of the complexity is complexities is the lack of of insurance companies that are offering the product in this uh in the state. Then when it comes to new construction, that then that's more than just the the uh monthly payment. And I I'm apologize for a longwinded answer, but these are all very important variables. >> I appreciate it. >> And it's well, when it comes to new construction, what goes into that? It's the the cost of land. It is the permitting process. Some some cities, it's really complex and the permit fees are very high. So that adds to the holding costs that a developer might have. Uh then you have the the materials obviously and then you have the labor. And so there have been some uh laws that have been passed at the state level, sick and safe time, paid family leave, and other mandates that that being pushed down then to the labor is increasing the labor rates. And so it's it's all of that gets rolled forward. All of these costs when it comes to new construction, the sales price is simply dictated by the totality of the costs plus the risk plus a return on investment. rough the average return on investment for real estate obviously it's a wide spectrum there but in the neighborhood of five to 8%. And so that all has to happen. So as any of those go up the cost just gets rolled forward. And so now you're seeing that average age of 40. You know, I I can't believe some of these entry- level homes, aside from the town homes, if you look at ju just the the single family detached homes from the 440s or from the 500s, I couldn't imagine being somebody in my mid20s or, you know, just out of college, some car payments, student payments, maybe the first kid on the way, something like that, having to to contend with all that and then take a mortgage on a $500,000 house. There's no way I could have done that. I was a truck driver back then in my mid20s making I think 11 bucks an hour. Yeah, there's just no way. So that's where it's very alarming. So I apologize for the long answer, Mr. Mayor, but yeah. Uh so for solutions, every single one of those needs to be addressed because there's not a single contributing factor. There's multiple contributing factors and that's what we're analyzing at the state level is how we can hope to mitigate some of those. >> Is there any other questions? >> Two questions, Senator. First one pertains to you were talking about homeowners insurance in regards to um you know wind and hail. One of the issues is is that it's pretty well known that insurance companies on wind and hail damage tend to overpay for those claims compared if you were to go out say you proactively went to shop the the market for a new roof. Is is does the state have any authority to dictate to insurance companies um their policies on doing that or is that a federal issue? No, that there's that's very much in scope on a state level. So that's the Department of Commerce because these insurance companies need to get licensed and then abide by the the regulations that we put in place. And so that's very much uncert. Thank. Then my my second question, um are you at all optimistic in regards to all the fraud that's being exposed that we're going to see um uh some positive outcomes from this as far as um restitution, uh people going to jail and accountability. Um and in that question, you know, up it it's pretty well known that the um the word on the street is that the executive branch kind of squashed the investigations the last couple of years. Um is there any anything positive coming out of the the executive branch for the AG? Um are any of the the Democrats um outraged by what's going on with this? >> Well, that's there's multiple sub questions within that question, but let's start with accountability. Uh when we were at at Seagull last night, one of the council members, myself and and representative Hudson were over there. Uh and the question was asked by council member, do you think we get a gaming clock back? And unfortunately, I think the answer is is no. Because it's once it's out the door, once the fraud occurs, this has been occurring for a number of years if you can imagine that that money is moving. It's moving through different entities. It's moving potentially overseas. And so the clawback is going to be a significant challenge for accountability. It's going to be a similar uh challenge the having to track people and uh you know find them, bring them into custody. They might be in the states at this point. They might be they might have fled the country uh because this has been going on for years. And so there are there has been some accountability and some some convictions uh and some of the fraud in the last year and a half or so, but it's going to be just scratching the surface of those entities that are involved when it comes to to that's accountability those actors. when it comes to processes that need to happen in accountability within state agencies that I have I have much higher hope. So last year there was the office of inspector general bill strongly bipartisan bill and it would have given independent authority to an office to oversee and go into each of the agencies be able to investigate and have that type of of law enforcement power because right now that office doesn't exist. There are offices within each agency, but those offices within each agency roll up and are accountable to the commissioner of each respective agency. It's a conflict of interest because if there are findings, then what's going to happen? Who do they report to and how are those going to be potentially influenced? That's why there was this bipartisan bill to create an independent office that was outside of the authority of the respective commissioners. It passed the Senate. It died in the House. So when it was brought up for a vote in the house, it split exactly 607067. All 67 Republicans voted in favor of it. All 67 Democrats voted against it. And this was I think it was a 65-2 vote in the Senate. It might have been 67 to zero to be honest. So wildly passed the Senate and unfortunately it died in the House. Uh I I I really believe with [snorts] all this pressure that that has happened that there will be uh bringing that back in some form. Hopefully, it's the same bill. Maybe it's a slightly tweaked bill, but I do anticipate something coming back. Um, hopefully I hit each of the points. >> Any more questions for Senator? >> I did have one. When you were talking about the construction of the lands, the permits and all that stuff. Um, would you consider some of the building code also? Um, I just know that there's several contractors that are complaining about the costs of some of that, too. Do you see anything in the Department of Labor to kind of change some of those? >> You No, you and I forgot that one that you are spot on with that. We have one of all the 50 states. We are Minnesota is notorious. We have one of the stringest strictest most stringent building codes in the entire country. And that is just driving up these costs because we are reaching for perfection when it comes to the envelope of a house. Meaning how tight it is, uh the air flow that passes through it, the the fire code, uh sprinklers, and you know, if it's three units or more, you have to have a sprinkler, and that costs anywhere between five and $9,000 for each house. So yes, each of our neighboring states doesn't have anywhere near uh the house strictly. So yes, that is absolutely part of the discussion and that is a variable that is adding tens of thousands of dollars of cost. One of the things I'm concerned about is uh and every one of these issues in the building code it does it it attempts to address a very real issue. But with anything in life anything in life there's the 8020 rule. You take 20% of your energy or effort to achieve 80% of your objective. But that remaining 20% is going to take 80% of your energy or or cost or etc. So I I think that our building code we've surpassed the 80% now. So now we're in that last 20% and that's what I mean when I say chasing perfection of a house or an envelope of a structure. Uh because one of the things I'm concerned about is as an real life example radon. Radon is a a gas that's dangerous very much so. But when we have in many of our communities here that I have the privilege of serving, we have older homes and some of those homes have uh basements that don't even have a slab. It's just a dirt floor. Might be a seller, storm seller, just mechanicals are down there or something. There is I'm Last year there was talk and there was a bill. We had a committee hearing on it. I anticipate that there might be another bill for example that's going to require retroactive retrofitting of radon mitigation. And so for those who might be familiar with it, that's going to be at least $10 to $20,000 for a very small house. And how are people going to come up with it? To come in and pour a slab or to there's other ways to mitigate it by creating a vacuum seal. I don't want to go through the weeds, but to your question, yes, the building code and is is a challenge and we there are many opportunities we can reduce that become more uh conformance with some of our neighbors. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to come visit us. We appreciate very much. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It's an honor always to to come and visit to represent this great community. I love feedback. Please reach out to me as we come into session and I will give the best my email address which is the best way to get a hold of me. It's sen short for senator. Mnsenate.gov. >> Thank you again, Mr. Mayor. >> Thank you. Thanks, Senator. All right. So, we will move on to the consent agenda. No, we removed me from it. Other than that, is there any discussion points on the consent agenda? >> Mr. Mayor, if there are none, I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda as amended. >> Second. [snorts] >> We got a second. Roll call vote. Starting with council member B. I. >> Council member. >> I'm also I council member Swenson. >> Hi. And council rainbow >> I [clears throat] >> I >> There we go. Thank you. We didn't catch it. >> All right. So, moving on to number four. Presentation. A presentation by Tools for Business. >> I can start it until he gets here. He's running a little >> or should we just skip it and come back? >> We can skip it and kind of come back to it. Yeah, >> I would recommend we skip it and come back to it if you're okay with that. We'll welcome it for the presentation. We only have to hear once. All right. So, we already approved uh engineering um fire department. Was that rolled into consent or was it not? >> Okay. So, I'll just read off uh Chief Miller's not able to be here tonight for the month of January. They had 23 total calls, three for fire, uh 11 medical, one for carbon monoxide, three mutual aid responses, one power power line down, and one public assistance. Our biggest thing that they're working on is onboarding four firefighters, and they've issued them their probationary gear. Um, see if there's anything else critical on this. Six personnel from around the community, it's more than just now, are starting firefighter one here in the city. There's a total of 27 students. Then lastly, the line of ambulance is being staged uh when it's not in service at the now fire station. So that's great to see. They also listed out the names of the four new firefighters which is Dan Bsby, Avery Mortonson, Britney Nelson, and Luke name other something very similar to that. I messed it up. Any questions on uh the monthly fire department report? Hearing none, you're up. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, the following is our sheriff's office report for the month of January 2026. Sheriff's Office responded to 133 calls for service. Of those calls, 12 were to bar none, nine alarms, 16 medicals, and 19 animal calls. Jumping into the bar none calls. On the first we had three disorderly juveniles. Our deputies mediated the situation and nobody was charged in that incident. On the third, we responded for an assault report. One juvenile was arrested, charged with fifth degree assault, then transported to our juvenile facility. Uh later on the 3rd, we responded for more disorderly juveniles. Uh deputies were able to calm that down and no charges were necessary. On the 10th, deputies responded for an assault between juveniles. Again, we mediated the situation. There were no charges. On the 19th, uh deputies responded for a delayed assault report. On this one, two juveniles were charged with fifth degree assault and remained at the facility. Later on the 19th, uh we responded for another delayed assault report. On that one, one juvenile was charged with fifth degree assault and remained at the facility. And again, even later on the 19th, we responded for more disorderly juveniles. Uh, two were charged with thirdderee riot and two were transported to the hospital by ambulance on emergency holds. Uh, on the 21st, deputies responded for an assault report between two juveniles. No charges were needed there. On the 23rd, deputies responded for a mental health call. On that one, a juvenile was transported to the hospital by ambulance. On the 24th, we responded for multiple disorderly juveniles. Uh when deputies arrived on that one, staff already had things under control and we were able to clear. [snorts] On the 29th, we responded for an assault between residents. One juvenile was charged with fifth degree assault and transported to the hospital on emergency hold. On the 29th, deputy took a phone call assault report. On that one, staff reported being assaulted by the juvenile. That one remains under investigation as they're collecting or reviewing video on those things, but I would suspect it will likely result in another fifth degree assault charge for the residents. Uh we did not really have any other noteworthy calls around the city for the month of January. Uh I forgot to include on here, but under kind of our miscellaneous category, I'm looking to schedule our meet the deputy night for this year. Uh I'm not available to come next month. I'll be out of town. So I was thinking April if you guys know that far in advance whether you have any major going on at that meeting. >> April should be >> okay we'll plan on that tenatively and if it changes we can we can roll with it. We're flexible. So uh with that I can stand for any questions. >> Mr. Mayor, >> council mayor >> deputy, understanding that it's an ongoing investigation, has there been any updates that could be shared regarding the um the incident in >> the standoff incident? I don't believe there's anything new to share since the charges were released on our press release. [clears throat] Um until it goes through the courts, it's still an active investigation. So, there's not much that changes and what we can share until after prosecutions. Anybody any further questions at all? If not, thank you again for keeping our city safe. We appreciate very much. >> Thank you. >> Okay, so we'll move on to uh planning and zoning uh to B. Um and letter B is to recognize Dale Ames uh with his letter of resignation. Um the one thing that I was at the planning and zoning meeting, Dale served 50 years. Um, we awarded him a plaque. Just a fantastic resident to look at a contribution back to your city. I don't know of anybody that I can say get 50 years back to the city and a lot of this on a voluntary basis for a very very low amount of pay. So with that, is there any other comments like to accept a letter of resignation from there? >> Mr. Mayor, >> council member, >> I would like to make a motion to um thank Mr. answer for service and and accept his resignation from the planning and zoning committees. Um and yes, that is quite an accomplishment and um look forward to seeing him at more baseball games this summer. >> Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor, I second that. >> Second that. >> I would second council member Brian's motion. >> Perfect. >> And I agree with what he's his comments. >> Yeah. just fantastic service. All right, we'll do uh any more discussion on that. >> For the record, is it Mr. Glazer or Rainbow? >> I heard Council Member Glazer first, but >> there could be a delay. >> So, for the record, um let's move to roll call vote. Council Rainbow, we'll start with you. All those in favor? >> I. >> I'm also an I. Council Blazer. >> I. >> And Council Ri. >> Okay. Thank you, uh Mr. for your service. All right. Natalie, would you like to go? Yeah, we'll come back to number four. So, if you go through your uh courts update, please. >> Yeah, they're really I mean, it's it was a busy month. You guys can kind of read the report. I did attend the state of the city lunchon. You know, I did find that quite interesting. Um the one thing that I found the most interesting was that they're still trying to work on that bridge and I think that would be fantastic. Um our newest employee, Matt, is learning the ropes. He's fitting in really well and the, you know, the season's been going pretty well. Um, the one thing that has changed is that we did clean out the old public works office and we made it into a locker room. One of the reasons being is that the fire department was in need of space. So, we removed the lockers for the sheriff's and some of their equipment and moved it all over public works into that office. And there's lockers in there not for public works and their clothes don't just have to sit on a hanger in the dust and and all of that stuff >> because they're parking in there. It's going to work out better as well. >> Correct. For the sheriff's department as well. And then what we did is move the uh extra office across from the men's bathroom is now the public works office. And we have a computer set in with all three login. They all three now have a now then email so that they can actually um no longer using their personal emails. So I thought that was a pretty good accomplishment this month. >> Can you go back to the bridge? The bridge you're talking about is over Mississippi River. >> Yes. To go from Ramsey to Dayton. >> Okay. >> Is what they're kind of working on still. I wish it would come a lot faster, but >> it's been forever. >> Forever. Yes. customer. >> Um, based on what you heard of them talking about it, it seemed like it was a real possibility or sort of a pipe dream that everybody was just >> It sounded like they were still trying to move forward with it. Um, it would have been I suppose I should have asked the senator too. It might be in their transportation. >> I'm not sure. But Champlain of course is wanting it because it's creates such a backup. um Elf River and Rogers would like it because again it's creating such a big backup with only a couple of crossings and then the next one is Monaceel and then Clear Water. So [snorts] >> the question is how are they going to manage all the traffic that would end up going through eight >> that I don't know just to deal with the traffic, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because that's only six lane. >> Yeah. Because that's only a two lane. >> Yeah. >> When you come in by the old church. >> So >> it's a great question. >> Yeah. All right. Does that complete your update? >> That does. >> Okay. So, moving on. Uh, we'll go on to new business. First one starting out, approval of resolution providing security updates to city buildings. >> I'm sorry. We have tasks and goals first. >> Skip over task and goals. >> Ah, yes. It's under the clerk's update. Yes. >> Sorry about that. >> Yeah. So, we kind of gave you guys um a list. I did it differently this year. Um, separated out kind of by department or kind of where they need to go. I gave what some of our recommended you know top 11 were. Um but if these are not in line with what council is looking for or looking at please let me know um we will you know work on them as quickly as we can. So the question is is you've proposed uh I mean there's a lot of writing. It's two and a half or three pages or four pages just of uh possible goals and I believe what we're looking for as a council is to probably get the top five or the top 10. Um >> it is a lot of this is I mean everything in this list needs to be completed at some point. It's just what do you want us to work on first? >> I don't know based on how much you got done this year. I bet you could do all of it. >> [laughter] >> That's pretty high expectations there. Um, and some of it we're already in the in the midst of. We are reviewing the the attorneys. We are getting some bins right now for the just, you know, to repair this building. Um, we're working on the escrow audit. Um, hiring seasonal employees that that's going to start the beginning of March. We'll start advertising for that. Um, inventory. I am happy to say I have maintenance departments done. They got it done in >> at the end of January. >> Yep. >> It's very good. There was a challenge I proposed to them when I when I when I work on this. Can you get the inventory done? >> Yes. >> I think we gave a deadline at the end of February, but I was like, I think you guys can get this done. >> Yes. So, that will be going along with photos and such to our insurance company. Um, the wage step chart I believe council member Swinson is working on. And then um election readiness uh that's already starting. Our poll pads are in and I just got an email from the county today saying uh come and pick yours up and get it out of our offices. So all of that is starting to go. Um the IUPCUP audit is becoming quite interesting and DIA is learning a lot about them and some of the things that uh have or have not been done and things that need to be done. The bar none cup has been um finalized as far as the details of what both their attorney and our attorney and Cindy want. It's just now a matter of actually getting the form and the applications and the money. Um, we did get some ideas from the sheriff's department of what they would like and we're trying to incorporate those as well. Uh, Cindy is still working on the zoning ordinances, but as you can see in her report, she did say uh everything that's coming up at for the February meeting >> uh is taking precedence. So, she may I don't you know, she's still hoping to make her time time frame on that uh to get that done, but um with everything that's coming up, it's going to be kind of crazy right now. She said February's planning was on the meeting is going to be very long >> and that will make our March meeting here very long. So, um security upgrades is one of the things I want to that we're going to talk about today and the IT updates are things that we're going to talk about today. So, >> so just a question for the council is >> um we got four pages worth of stuff. Multiple are already in process. Um if you look on page 89 um but do we just take and chew on this and then bring this back next month and bring your recommendations next month? Does that work for everybody? >> Yes. >> All right. Perfect. >> And then with that, can I ask about for under number 11? Um can we get some priorities for not only this year but 5 years, 10 years, and 20 years, please? So that we have something that we're going to kind of work for and work towards. Um, that would be really helpful. >> Mr. Mayor, >> go ahead. >> I foresee that being as some type of work session where the council gets together and put our hands together and think about those things. Sort of a good call. So, if you look at one priorities, we can bring them together and we can vote and say here's our one through 10. When you start getting beyond that, um, some of it's visionary and saying here's what we think strategically. Um, and I I believe a working session would be a great way to handle that. >> Okay. you have a recommendation for a time frame on a working session. Would you like to see that? >> I I don't just as long as it's not the end of next week because I'm Arizona. >> I was just in there. Um, but yeah, and this is this isn't a criticism in regards to this process, but I I guess as a as a council, I'd like to I'd like to move in the direction of having this information in October going [snorts] into the the coming year and where we can make some decisions in, you know, the council has some time to to look at it, you know, into November and December and make make some decisions in December for for the coming year. So we're >> contest. >> So we're not >> in October. >> Yeah. >> Perfect. >> The proposal in October will come back and you make your decisions by December. So kind of rolling it into the new year with your priorities. That's great. >> Is that because then staff can have their uh you know you can you can have uh sessions with your staff and create goals for them and uh people are wondering what they're going to be doing. >> Yeah, that would be great. We could certainly do that. Um I would like to have a work session then uh for the 5 10 and 20 year prior to this CIP meeting because that's going to indicate not just equipment but what is the city looking for? What are where are we going? >> Can I recommend April? >> April >> gives us enough time to think about it two weeks before the CIP recommendations and budget start. Hopefully nobody's in Arizona in April. Should be warm enough here. >> So, just a question for you, Mr. Mayor. Regards to this. Isn't Isn't you know the the desire for um knowing where we're going to be at in 10 to 20 years more a function of our um our comp plan. >> So, they they have the the comp plan. Um if you look in the comp plan and what's in there, it's a lot of watershed stuff. What it what I did not find as much visionary stuff. So I think it would be applicable if we looked out five years or 10 years and at least got a vision from what this council's perspective is and and then it can be updated too moving forward is they can take that >> uh and and we can adjust it every every two years when we change council. >> Mr. Mayor, >> um I want to thank Natalie for putting this together. Um, I think this is the first time I've seen something uh detailed like this. In the past, council has always provided their thoughts. Um, this to me takes into consideration what staff sees and deals with on a daily basis and deficiencies that we have that we need to address. So, I think thank her for that. Um I I know that I maybe council member Brian can remember the last time we gave our goals to staff. I'm going to go back and look at mine and um based on what staff has gotten staff and council has completed in 25 um I I think a lot of my thoughts are going to be already completed which is nice but um yeah there are a couple things that will need work sessions and some detailed thought and and discussions. So, but thank you Natalie. >> And as you think about those goals, it could be public works goals too. It could be city administration. So, we've got some functions that can be different things. You know, these are very general right here, but like one of the things I talked about with our public works is getting our area organized. The public works area could definitely do some cleaning and organization. >> Okay. Um, >> with that, do you want me to go into those two pieces of equipment? Would you have the specific pieces of equipment called out anywhere on here or No, >> I do. Well, they're the ones I gave you. >> Yes, but they're not on the agenda, so you might as well cover them right now. So, >> so the first one is a brush cutter. Um I included photos for you. Mary got the emails, too, I believe. Um, if you see in the first photo, the door can open up and the driver can get out. And there's a second photo with Isaac actually in it. If you go to the next one, this is with the attachment on it. There is now less than a hand width for him to be able to get out. So, if you go to the next photo, you can see him in there with his hand actually out of the door. So, if anything was to happen inside this piece of equipment, they can't get out. >> Um, it's the the last one is actually with him in it a little bit farther so that you can actually see the attachment. This attachment was built or bought in the '9s and it was bought for a different machine. >> They've been trying to use it. Um I have I [clears throat] will say one of our public works has used it and two of them are refusing to use it. Um it's not safe. They can't get out and um because of that they we do have pricing to get a new one that is for that spec, you know, for that machine. So it would be good for them to be able to do we do have the money available because we got a $17,000 um trade in on the tool cap. So we do have some monies available there. Um they this is the one that is used to cut the sides of the roads ditches. This would be around our holding ponds which have not been done for several years. It would help and they would feel safe and be able to get out of the machine. Um the second piece of equipment. >> Can we just hold on there? So are you are you recommending that we go forward with the purchase and we do a vote on this? I they would love that today because with the way that it's been, they're anticipating being able to start doing some mowing probably in April. However, the um yeah, because the money is still there with the bonding with that with getting the um trade in value. >> So, we'd like to open it up for discussion before we go on to the second piece. We can deal with each one. Um open discussion want >> council member please go ahead. >> So with one question first question I have is is our track loader only a standard flow machine doesn't have high flow option. >> It does not as far as I know from what the guys have said. Um my my my next point of u uh to the discussion is since we have since they're looking towards April so we would have some more time and you know bare naked is very nice equipment made in Minnesota very well built um but there are there are a couple other um very good manufacturers in Minnesota that u make heavy duty equipment um that uh typically they're buying direct from the manufacturer and I'd be happy to send you an email to provide the names of those manufacturers to see if um there's any benefit to working with them from a a price standpoint. >> Your recommendation is to hold do some more pricing on it. >> That that would be my recommendation. Yeah, I need's very good but it's you know and I have some very equipment at home but you you know you pay for it for sure. So, I guess I would like to do our due diligence and check with some of the other Minnesota manufacturers and how to do the equipment. Mr. Mayor Councel, >> I think that certainly seems reasonable. I was going to actually uh ask you, Ken, what your thoughts were on this because you um more than any of us uh actually use equipment like this. So, can I ask you a question? Um, you know, I I assume they're going to be different prices, but the other brands you're thinking of, is it going to be like thousands is different, hundreds different? You have any idea like what they generally are? >> You know what? I haven't I haven't priced a brush cutter of this size. So, you know, that would be >> a matter of a few phone calls. >> Does this will this fit on the new uh tractor that they got the tool kit? >> Yeah, >> this is for the skid steer. I don't >> it doesn't go onto the tool cap. >> I I don't know what the full capacity is of of the tool cap, but um yeah, it unfortunately, you know, Caterpillar makes incredible track machines, but they there's not a lot of clearance when it comes to attachments when you when you set the loader arms down. Um so, you know, it's uh it's just one of the natures of C of Caterpillar, too. some of the some some equipment equipment is, you know, made with lower clearance, but I do have another question. Natalie, do you know who picked this? Like, is this what the guys say they specifically need or is this just something? >> Yeah, there were uh there were four of them, >> four [clears throat] different cutters. I believe they narrowed it down to two between the three of them and then it was majority two of them wanted this one the other one one and one covered. So >> did you have the other quote so we had comparison because that's really what was asking for. >> No the covered one was still the same brand and it was more expensive >> that second page thing. They do have something else on there. It's that same standard. >> So, >> that one was 76, but then we still had to get the whole cover or something >> and they wanted the open one. There was a reason why Isaac two of them voted for the open one because they said that they are better and one person had already for the durability. So, one comment that I have is just taking a look is if it depends on when they're going to use this. If they're going to start the next two weeks, use it. I don't want anybody going in and using this old. This is not a safe condition. If there was a fire, they couldn't get out. >> Um, so I'm going to recommend that we do not use the old one at all. Um, if you think it'll make a difference, we'll go with your recommendation. Just wait and look into it. Sounds like they did, but it would be really helpful if they would have brought that information too and say, "Here's the four we compared. Here's the prices of them, and this is the one we chose." And if we use that process, that means because that's exactly what council glazer is recommending. But we don't have that information. Yeah. >> Um, if you want to email me those >> Yeah. >> manufacturers and you think you can buy directly from them? Well, um, yeah, some of them, some of them are, uh, one of the manufacturers specifically is direct. Um, I'm not sure. I'll check on CMP. I have a piece of their equipment. I bought that from the dealer, but I'll check if they direct. >> Okay. Well, maybe we can do the same thing with the next piece of equipment, which is just the um, >> one more question on this piece of equipment. Actually, what it's replacing? Is that old >> brush tire sellable or is that just in the garage? A couple hundred bucks for it. Um the guys agreed that we would put it out on like um bid to buy. We thought would probably be the best one to do. We could probably try that other auction. We have a policy. >> Yeah, you got a whole process that >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We just haven't as of right now we didn't have anything. So that was the thing. >> It's It's definitely worth selling somebody. >> Is it a couple? >> Thank you. >> It's hard. It's hard to tell. It's it's worth what somebody's willing to pay. >> Yeah. somebody who's got that older machine that it works great and they said you can still get some parts for it. It just doesn't fit the machine that we have. >> Um, and then the next piece is just a hold. Um, Mr. Mayor, the question I was wondering for Natalie is, so we bought a different one 30ish years ago and we're still using it today. I heard maybe I've misheard you but is this is if we buy this specific one is it something that is going to be is is a universal that could work with another skid steer or Caterpillar or otherwise or we are we going to be specific to this specific model >> that I do not know >> because I don't want to necessarily put the money into if if if we can get 30 years out of it might be worth looking at what our different options are. I don't want to have to buy another one when this if we have to replace here for 5 years and this one isn't going to work. >> It'll work. It's going to work unless it's a you know you know you look to upgrade to a high flow machine high flow. You can still run the machine on low flow. >> That was going to be my other question. You know when you're talking about local high flow would it be working? Would it work? Yeah. >> Yeah. You just got to make sure that you're running that with this piece of equipment running machine local. Right. Great. >> Mr. Mayor, >> council member Randall. Uh, may I ask council member Glazer to um explain high and low flow? >> It's it's the flow rate of the hydraulics. So, and and the equipment that you can run with it. >> All right. Thank you. >> There there are some pieces of equipment like forestry multers as an example that are typically high. You can get them standard flow, but most of them with the bigger machines, it's high flow, and you have to have the the capabilities of of the machine to drive it. >> All right. Thank you very much. I've never heard that terminology in my house. So, thanks. >> Okay. Are we complete with the uh >> No, I just remember um when we talked about doing an inventory of or I heard that we were doing an inventory on public works. Um, is that including here's our equipment and here's the rough time frames that we need to replace things because it just seems like here's another thing that kind of came crept up on us that oh, you know, we're running into an issue and we need to replace it and it seems like it's like you know it would have been nice to again have this discussion last summer. So it would be okay where is this in the priority among everything else that you know that that we should be looking at that brush cutter would be you know higher than a bucket which would be higher than a however that works out instead of just kind of oh by the way we We need to be looking at replacing these things now. >> Oh, absolutely. It is. You >> want to answer this question? >> Yeah. And there were multiple items that were not on any kind of list that I had and there are multiple items that are past their lifetime. >> So, it started with the inventory to answer your question. Started with the inventory to figure out what we had and then with that there'll be recommendations that will come up from this [clears throat] year. I fully agree and supported that. We shouldn't be coming into January saying hey we need a brush cutter because it's not safe. We should have known. Um >> so that's what we're asking to come out of. >> Yeah. Part of the goals with it is uh none of the three current public works um had ever seen any CIP plan before. So it had not been shared and they didn't understand it. So it's all printed out through as far as Lori has it out I think to 2040 or 2045. All the equipment is on there that she had, but we will be adding to it and then they will be making some adjustments as to where they believe that the life span is for some of these items. >> Yeah. >> I just for I don't think it's going to be a super fun consultation >> on the CIP conversation. >> Yes. >> So, it it all started with inventory and unfortunately it's all been done in vacuum up to this point. So, it was really ripping the band-aid off. Figure out what we got. >> Yep. >> So, it's a good starting point. All right. Can we be complete with the brush cutter? We're shing it till next month, getting more bids, figuring out best plan, and then we can vote on. Okay. Moving on to the lowprofile snow pusher, Natalie. >> And I will just say exactly the same thing. Is this something that council member Glazer thinks that you can get from a direct? >> Well, I think there there are other options. I mean, what is what is the width of the limit? They're looking by uh 108. >> It's to go on the tool cap. So, I'm not sure how wide that is. >> It's a 9 foot 108. It's in It's the 108. So, um you know, and and again, Baron is a very nice piece of equipment, but I have a um I have a a snow pusher at home, a 96 inch snow pusher at home with um a rubber cutting edge. And I opt because I have a gravel driveway, I opted for a steel back drag, but I could have put rubber on it. And I paid a fraction of this and it was it's hand built by a gentleman in El River. Now, I'm not saying that um something like that is would be appropriate for city use, but um mine's heavy duty. It has all the same performance capabilities and the the feeds and and the swivel pivot. Um, I just think we need to, plus we're getting towards end of season on snow >> and, you know, can we do better than spending, you know, $5,000 on a on a pusher this time of the year? >> Okay. So, what are the brands you would like them to look at? >> Um, it's you know what? I'm going to I'm going to make a couple of calls tomorrow and and and um yield to the guys that are in the business. >> Okay. and um ask them what they >> were sponsoring. >> Um is this a piece of equipment that they need for this snow season? Like are they hurting without it? >> I you know what they're using a bucket. >> Can I bring this up? I want to bring up this point. Um so here's what they're currently doing. They currently have a bucket and they said we're plowing the parking lot with a bucket. I said I said review efficiency and effectiveness is part of your conversation. What? And I said, "You're using a bucket." So what should take 20 minutes is taking an hour. >> So it depends on how many times it would snow because that's what I was going to bring up. If it's going to snow four more times this year, you probably already pay for this thing by buying it now. >> But I don't know if it's going to snow or not snow. I don't know. But it's just it was terrible use of terrible inefficiency of what they had. So I said, "Put a plan together, guys. Give me a recommendation and bring it to the council." So that's what they did. But the same concept is um Miss Navi is when they're going to do this bring [clears throat] three quotes together so we we have a chance to review what it is. >> Okay. Yeah. So this is kind of the first time that they are working with this on that. So I will let them know that we want different manufacturers that would work with the same equipment >> and then with that what is the recommendation? So it should be three piece of equipment and here's what we recommend and here's why. So if we do it that process anything and bring together then we can make a decision and then we go to the back. >> Yeah. the why of it would be really helpful. Like if I knew why they wanted that specific brush cutter really good reason. >> Okay. Anything else on the low profile snow pusher, we will shelf that next month. Also, >> Mr. Mayor, >> Council Member Angel, go ahead. >> Um I I I heard Council Member Glazer mention a person on Elk River. My husband has purchased um a snow bucket and a Grappler from a gentleman that manufactures them. He has a business doing that. And my husband has been pleased with what he has purchased from them. Um I think my nephew bought something from him and I know some other friends have and they've been very pleased. So, I will also get that information, that person's name and number, um, and give it to Natalie to give to public works and they can have a conversation there. >> Mr. Mayor, >> Council Member Angel, I suspect it's the same person that I bought some. >> It's very I forget his name. He's on the edge of on Sego, >> right? Yeah. Up on a hill maybe a little bit. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Okay. All right. Well, I'll get it from my husband, too. And if we give her two names the same, that's that's okay. Thank you. very nice light. That was awesome. >> One more comment is I kind of would expect that these things are somewhat common. Does are these available for purchase through the state purchasing program? >> They are not. >> None of it. Um neither one of these products are part of that plan. >> Good question. >> But on the last one for the tool, they looked at the state sponsored program and they actually got a cheaper not going to it. >> They did. Wow. So, >> we at least need to check, right? >> 100%. But I just found that interesting that they were finding it cheaper. >> Yeah. >> But it is it is good. >> Okay. So, can we move on um to new business? [clears throat] >> Yes. >> Um first one to talk about is uh security updates. It's an account and you want to provide your recommendation, Natalie. I know this is really long, but I don't think we need to spend time on page anything 2 through 10. It's really the first page. >> It really truly is. the box that is on the wall at the city offices, some of the numbers stick and they don't work real well anymore. And in order to program anybody new, like a new employee, or to take one out, I have to punch in about 14 numbers to make it go. And it just is I had one of the uh right-handed techs out and they did it and it still didn't work properly. So, if it is all possible, I would love to at least get that fixed. I know it's under my $5,000, but I wanted to kind of get a quote at all. You all know that I was looking towards trying to get keyless entries into some of the items, especially the places that we rent out. Um, I did we did talk with Metro Alarm. I also talked with Right Henipin. Um but I will table all that until um capital improvement planning because it is more than we can afford to do this year. But if I can get the >> So what specifically are you asking for for this year? >> The city office buildings to replace one box. >> What is the one box >> equipment? It's the >> Is it the programming box? Is it the security alarm box? >> There's two programs. We have a fire box >> and then we have the alarm box. So the alarm box is what needs to be replaced and he can replace it because the one that we have was put in when the building was built and it's not they don't make it anymore. So he will replace it with something newer and it will be able to be programmed through a computer. So not the manual way. So I'll be able to say, "Okay, Mayor Haven, you have this code to come in if you're going to come in and oh, I'm going to need to remove Supervisor Blaze so that can come off. so that the codes can stay current. It would also be to a point where if I was at home and one of the girls locked themselves out by accident, they could call me. I would be able to open up that building with my phone. >> This will tie into all the other buildings with the greater plan. CA >> questions for for Natalie on this. So, you're asking for $134? >> I am. it will increase our monthly just a little bit because we still have to pay. And if you looked at his explanation on the email at the back of this um by asking some of these questions, it brought up that they didn't increase our fees by $15 when they should have a long time ago. Um so our fire alarm monitoring will stay the same. That's still 27.95. Um the reports will still stay the same at the 1245. Um we are currently paying that $15 a month. He says that will change um to another $15 because that should have been done years ago. He said everybody else was caught up about 11 years ago. So you're kind of lucky there. Um, so then we will still just have the two different It'll be the 27.95 plus an extra 15 and then the uh what was it? 85 8535. Okay, here we go. 57.95 a month if I remove the fire inspections. They were charging quite a bit for the month to have the inspections done and our fire chief is qualified to do that fire inspection. So, as long as I can provide them with a fire inspection signed off by the chief and I put it into the panel, they'll remove that. So, I can actually drop it from the 8535 that we're paying now to 57.95 a month. It's just that upfront of that $1,100 to or 1130 whatever it is to get that piece of equipment replaced and fixed. >> The chief's confident we can do the expect inspections of the requirement that they're looking for. >> Yeah, he'll be starting to well I believe that's the goals for next year is to start doing all fire inspection. So questions for that council. Council member Randle, you got a question? >> Uh, no. I was if there are no questions, I would move um the resolution, but I don't know if there's other questions. >> Second. [laughter] >> Okay. Any other discussion? >> All right. Hearing none. Start with Council Member Ryan. All those in favor say I. Counc. Council member Blazer. I >> I'm also an I want council Randall. >> Hi. >> Okay, that that has passed. >> I would like to thank you for that. >> All right, so we'll go on to B. It's approving of Governor Fields to sell you more. Council member Glazer, are you taking lead on this one or >> Well, I >> can I ask if we can go back? >> Is this is our guy here? >> Yep. This is Craig. >> All right. Would you guys be okay if we jump back? >> Go to number four. All right, sir. Number four, we're going to talk about the tools and business for the proposed tech projects of 2026. >> Um, and I I'll kind of start it out is that the items that we're talking about are things that um, most of it was already kind of talked about in our CIP. You all know that our server went down um, and it was down for three days. U made it very difficult for working. Um, there are some options and I'm going to let Craig kind of explain those options. One is replacing and having our own server again. The other is an option he doesn't always look forward to, but it is al or doesn't necessarily recommend correct the Microsoft um in the cloud. He doesn't really like that one, but it is cheaper and there are a lot of people that are doing that. Craig, is there any chance you could come up to the podium um and and just tell us who you are and and tell us u as you've been working with Natalie on this and what do you recommend? What's our best option as a city? >> Um that's a good question. There's no real right or wrong in these choices. Um, as Natalie mentioned, we have several of our customers, a dozen or half a dozen now, that have decided to migrate to 365. So, we don't actually forklift their server to what they call Azure. We um migrate the data to the SharePoint part of Teams. That's kind of the freebie part. It's not free because you're paying for your Microsoft licenses for Word, Excel, things like that, and your mailbox. But as part of that you get a terabyte of space. Well terabytes a lot and uh several of our customers are like the city 500 gig maybe 600 gig of data. So they work hard within the range where they don't pay additional dollars to store it online. So they've decided to migrate to save the cost of a server and the maintenance on a server backing up of a server. It's also convenient um collaborative computing with people in various offices or you just want to work from home. Sometimes it's just easier to get at the data. There's no VPNs. So, it's a convenience, lower cost, but the reason I'm not a fan is it's uh even though Microsoft claims it's more secure, Microsoft has proven that it's not they aren't more secure. So, you know, it's a little bit more work for us to keep track of what's happening. Um, try to keep it as secure as we can't even know it's on the cloud. And then we know that Microsoft is binding data for their AI modules and their agents and stuff. And it's like, is that okay? It's anonymous or is it anonymous? Can you trust them? So, there's a layer of separation for security by keeping your own server. Maybe an old server is an ideal thing to do. Um, but a new server costs a lot. I put a like a build a Dell build on there. I know some of you guys are techieing. You might want to go check your own pricing and whatever on servers. You can go out to places like dell.com and build your server. I put some requirements in there that you would use to do the build, but I came up with $11,000. That's a lot of money for a server. Now, we get a little better pricing than that because, you know, I think we get something like I don't know, like a 4% over cost type of thing. So, maybe for us if we if we bought it on your behalf, but we'd get paid back. I mean, we're not buying it for the city, but um you know, maybe around $10,000, but to guys like me, $10,000 is a lot of money. It's a 5year investment. So, you know, you advertise it over five years, it's not that bad. But still, it's a big upfront cost. When you do the Microsoft 365, there's really no upfront cost. There's a little bit of labor, but you know, it's a lot of prep work uh knowledge that we already have. Migrating the data takes time, but you don't have to be on the clock, so to speak, for the data to migrate. You know, we press a button and walk away. So, it's a pretty good option. Uh, we've got a lot of used servers. I did have access to two Dell T350 servers that are in very good shape. Come with the operating system. And I did the math on those and we could get one of those deployed for $3,180 for the with the operating system on as well. And I thought, well, that's a good three to four year solution. Maybe maybe 3 to four years from now there's even better options to go cloud so you keep a server for a few years or maybe you say because I heard someone saying another thing you don't want to have to revisit this very often. So maybe you do say well we want fiveyear solution or maybe you capitulate like I have and say fine I'll go to the cloud I'll go to Microsoft again. We've done it half dozen times and so far it's It's pretty okay, you know, it's not it's not bad for the end users. So, I'm not sure how Banyan would work. Um, database heavy things can't move to the cloud very well. So, Banyan might have to live on a local uh computer like on Lexi's computer and do a peer-to-peer network to it. But all the other data could go up to the bottom. >> Would we have um like another hard drive or something to back that up to since it's financial? I don't want to not have >> we would probably use the same tool. We use a Konis and a Conus can back up the cloud stuff too. Now the Here I am trying to I'm not trying to sell you on the Microsoft thing. What I hear a lot through Natalie, Lexi, even you know about everybody is the city wants to be careful with their finances. So, if we look at a server as an investment and all that it does for the city, yeah, it's a good investment, but also if we're budget conscious, um, we can migrate, keep bending local, use the same backup tool, and it's, oh gosh, I'm going to say less than 30 bucks a month the backup would drop to for that type of a situation. And the cloud stuff is by the number of seats. So the cloud backups would be like I think it's three bucks or $3.50 per seat and you got maybe 10 12 seats right now. >> So what is that 38 36 >> is it per email >> like per email or >> yeah seat would be yeah a seat would be you mostly have mailboxes for that but it's any license. So if somebody had a license just for Microsoft Office and didn't have a mailbox, they just wanted Word, Excel, etc., that's still considered a seat. But then your backups for whatever reason are based on the number of seats, not the amount of data. So we'd probably back up Danny if we went that direction. >> Customer resp um with the Microsoft subscriptions, if we did go to the cloud, would it eliminate like individual Microsoft Office subscriptions? Will those be like absorbed into whatever this subscription you're talking about? No, >> it's a it's a good question, but it's actually the reverse of that. It's because you have those Microsoft Office subscriptions, you get the SharePoint uh one terabyte without paying extra. You can buy as much as you want from Microsoft. I'm just saying that with those licenses that you already own, then they say, "Oh, well, by the way, you get even if you only had one user, you get the one terabyte kind of for nothing." And then another question, different topic I guess. Um you mentioned security and you know servers maybe being more secure. How do people how do staff remotely or how do staff even connect to the server like within the city? And then if they're hooking in from elsewhere, is that making that server vulnerable? And I mean, >> I guess what I'm what I'm thinking of is I know two other law firms that I mean, they got like held ransom by hackers in Russia and they lost they like throw out their server or something. They didn't have to pay 50 grand in ransom. Is that I mean >> I don't see that risk in Microsoft cloud. I do see that risk I guess in a hard server. Am I misunderstanding that or not thinking about that right? >> Um yes there was a couple questions in there. First question is how we connect and right now uh so the firewall routers are Sonic Wall and Sonic Wall has two products that are VPN. One is IPSC IP security and one is SSLVPN and their SSLVPN product that get hacked back in July. So um we use the exact VPN, but we're only allowing it on computers that we control so far. So, in other words, like Natalie's laptop, that's one that we have our protection scheme on. And so, she makes a VPN connection, she can access the server, work on manual, whatever. Um there's a new product out that we would probably need to go to if you keep your own server called Cloud Secure Edge and that would make the connection to a third party. Meaning um instead of a direct line in you go to the cloud, the servers goes to the cloud or the firewall router and then all of the security happens there and there's a tunnel created. So there's one point of separation. Uh as far as your point about uh 365 being more secure, it's more secure from a ransomware attack for certain, but it's not more secure from the um other types of data theft, data mining, um password keys, key loggers, all those little things. I can give you a dumb example, but like with email, they like to scan the email. People like to scan the email. Scan the email needs a relay. Somebody has figured out how to breach that relay through what they call a direct send vulnerability. So they can send emails out as Natalie without having to go through any authentication without having to even just by virtue of the fact that they know her email address. They somebody has found a way to worm their way in to u the Microsoft mailboxes and send emails out as another person. Can't stop them without shutting off direct. You shut off direct and you scan the email through that relay. So, it's those types of subtle things that people do on Microsoft that they can't do um if you had it local. So, it's a horse a piece, but you're absolutely right that you can take away the ransomware piece of it. And ransomware does stink uh and then do a recovery from one last October. Ransomware isn't so much anymore about just encrypting. We have good backups. We can restore like when your server crashed, we were able to restore the whole server onto another box and run that for two days while we were waiting for parts from Lenovo. Backups are no problem. It beats ransomware every time. So the ransomware guys change their tactics. And now what they say is, "Yeah, we're going to encrypt your data, but if you don't pay us, we're going to publish it online." >> So, you know, if you don't want all your data published, you better pay us. >> Uh 60% on that one. I met with the FBI and the FBI said that 60% of the time even if you pay they're going to expose your data because what they'll do they're criminals. They're they're they're not honorable. So they'll say yeah pay us start Bitcoin. You give them the Bitcoin and they say well we didn't publish your data but we're going to sell it to this guy. And then they threaten you and it's just a neverending series of people threatening to expose your data. So the recommendation indirectly from the FBI was don't pay. >> So your opinion or recommendation is the server is probably a little cheaper as like an investment. You're not syncing monthly. >> No, no, actually it's far less expensive for you to go to the cloud. It's it's the the server is that I think it gives you still with good protection. We have good protection on there. It's not super expensive either. Um, yeah. I don't want to say one way or the other. When I first met Natalie and we talked about this kind of stuff, she was kind of like how I felt over the years. Why would I put this stuff on the cloud? Why would I expose it to that many people? I like servers. I like having a, you know, I don't like being vulnerable to Microsoft's whims. Three, two weeks ago, two weeks ago, Microsoft had a huge problem with authentication. You couldn't get at your stuff. it was kind of a a worldwide problem. >> Couldn't authenticate. Well, now what are you going to do? You can't get at your data >> if you got your own server. It's you can still work, you know, remotely. So, I was a big fan of servers, but again, we've migrated a half dozen customers who insisted on it and uh it's worked out pretty well for him so far. You know, we've only been doing this since I think we migrated the first one last fall. So, it's not a huge amount of time to see how effective it's been, but so far so good. >> Sure. >> Do you have do you work with other municipalities? >> This is my first time. That's why I tell Natalie, I'm scared to come up here. It always seems like you're selling something. I'm not trying to sell you guys anything. You got a server. It's going out of warranty. It's proving to be kind of a like Lenovo when IBM owned them when it was IBM servers. They were pretty rock solid, but they haven't been rock solid forever. So, we hate them all. But this one, I I didn't trigger it. It just failed on its own and I don't trust it and I'm glad it's going out of warranty. Needs to be replaced. But again, we hear that cities are very careful with their budgets and wanted to make sure they had the option to go. So follow up on that, Miss Johnson. Do you do you have any contacts with other municipalities in our area that have transitioned to the cloud? >> I have not. Um I can certainly ask out because again it's relatively new. Um I can ask other cities to see if they have done it. Um I would say, you know, Craig hasn't done municipalities before, but he's got companies that have much much larger budgets than we have as far as keeping everything secure. But I could certainly talk to the local cities and see if they're doing it. Um, this was a decision I was not going to make. This is something that the council needs to make and that's why I asked Craig to come and explain it more so because it's there's pros and cons to both ways. Yeah, cost is a big one, but you know, long term, again, if you advertise a server, a $10,000 server for 60 months, the cost per month isn't that terrible. >> Brian, you want to go first? >> Yeah, it's your your call. >> Um, so you talked about setting up the peer-to-peer network. Is the main purpose of having a server is simply just to have a storage facility? Well, it's a primary that particular server access I'm going to use terms that are kind of goofy and I'm happy to explain in detail, but the DNS, DHCP, print server, file server, and some some of the security. So, it's sort of like the the centerpiece of the networking. Now, I didn't set that one up, but I would not have set it up much differently than the people who did. It was it was wellconceived. Um what was the guy's name from RV? Chris or something. >> Yeah, it was Chris. >> Chris Chris did a nice job. It's it's worked well for you. But it's kind of the centerpiece of the networking and the domain authentication, you know, for the security like the rights for who has what. So, and you take that same concept and you take that concept and you would migrate it to Microsoft or if you did Azure um with forklift and Azure is basically like a different Microsoft product that allows you to recreate your server in a cloud. It's more it's far more expensive. >> So, how does the so how do all those things get replaced? Like for example, the uh print server, if uh if if we got rid of the server >> uh direct printing. So like the print server feature, we've already kind of had to go to local printers because some of the things they do with collating and stapling and some of the needs of the city, the driver from the server wasn't working as well. So you just set the IP address because it was a local printer and then the laptop goes right to it. So it started out as like the primary print server. Now it's like an optional print server and we're doing a lot of printing directly from the device to the printer. Just keep it that way. There's there's only like you know half a dozen login. If this was a huge company we wouldn't really be talking about this because you'd have policies for convenience like you'd add somebody to a group and they would get the printer assignments and all that stuff. So we wouldn't be doing these direct prints and we wouldn't be talking about going to the cloud with city small enough where doing that direct printing won't be too much. Matter of fact, it won't be a burden because we've already had to do it. It's a really good question and then like DHCP would go to the router instead of the server and DNS primary DNS. So, uh, we wouldn't need to replicate anything. 365. It would just be on 365. I feel like I'm sounding like I'm trying to sell. I'm really not trying to sell you. >> That's all very important. Council. >> All right. Counc. >> Um, if we were to do the cloud, and maybe I'm thinking about this wrong, but it seems like getting everything from the server onto the cloud, like that's like the work once it's in the cloud. if we want to switch to a different cloud provider, is it just as much work? Because I'm seeing is it because I if we go with the server in four years or five years, we're going to have to do all this over the cloud. >> And so it'd be nice if we could just do it once, but if it's going to cost I mean Microsoft host something, who knows? IBM could host something, who knows? Um Google could be hosting something and the prices could all be different and all change. it. They're obviously not going to say, "Oh, just move my data from one to the other." There's going to be some sort of migration involved. >> How How about like I mean I know Microsoft has customer service and all that, but if we go if we go with the cloud, would it cut down on our IT cost, which I I think is your paycheck, which I apologize for, but thanks. >> Would it would it cut Would it cut down on our IT cost if we went to the cloud? >> Uh, a little bit. Um, sometimes it increases it. We we've seen some like an increase in the the management. Like [clears throat] again, I'm going to use some strange terms, but we had to start fighting conditional access policies because of the way that those those little hacks go. Again, it's not a blunt horse attack. It's not they're not trying to ransomware, but they get in and they leverage and they next thing you know, you know, somebody says, "Hey, I didn't make the edit to that document. Why does it show that the document was edited?" Oh, shoot. You know, uh, also they steal tokens off of sessions. So, you go do something online, you click on something, users are great at clicking on things like, hey, free coupon to Amazon. It's not a free coupon, it's a scam, but they click on it and then their token gets taken and then somebody tries to emulate it and they go in and attack. So, what happens, what we're finding is we're spending actually more time because we're trying to keep everything secure. Yeah. from the workstation, from the user perspective, but maybe that'll settle down. I think the bigger worry that I have is Microsoft has a history of giving away things just to get you hooked and then then they jack the price up. I was back in the world where there was four or five really uh popular email programs and then Microsoft gave away Outlook in 1998. He said, "We'll give it away free." It was better than all the others. CC mail, bonus mail, it's better known and then they gave it away and then when everybody went to it. So what my fear with this cloud stuff is yeah they're saying hey you get a terabyte for nothing just by virtue of the fact that you got these licenses come on over three years from now they'll be you know oh yeah that's $300 per user per month and then what are you going to do? So, one of the things I would like to add is just the concept of the cost he's talking about. You go to the new server, you said it's $10,000, you're good for good for five years. Um, so your your costs are spot on and just backing it up to we just did that work. So, we're talking the same cost. But I really like your concept. You said we put a used server in about $3,000. How much labor does it cost to for you to implement that? So, $3,000. Is that all inclusive of your labor and everything? >> Well, it probably could be. Um, so we have a budgeted number of hours and nowadays servers are a little bit different. I shouldn't say this. I should really try to trick people and give more attention. But the way that the world works now is we have uh virtual servers there. This one's on HyperV. You probably heard of VMware, HyperV, um, Citrix. They all have these virtual machines. So we can take uh just like when the server went uh belly up for a couple days, we can take a virtual machine and forklift it and drop it on new hardware. So to build the new hardware now takes an hour to two hours maybe just to get it all updated, get it ready for it. And then the forklift again is one of those things where you press the button for the copy and you just go away, you [clears throat] know, go eat supper, watch a movie, come back, it's done, configure a couple things, and you're on the new server. >> So I I really like your recommendation going with the new server. I mean, get it for let's say three years now. It's not is it warranty for three years or that's just a >> that so one of the I guess benefits or advantages of having done this for 41 years you just kind of know I don't know how I know but I can tell you that at 5 years you better start looking at your server because it's going to start failing. So you got to start replacing things and it's better to replace them before they crash than to recover from crash. And I can tell you that if I do a rebuilt server uh with a new operating system, fresh drives, I can get three years out of it without breaking a sweat. Is that always the case? No. I've seen servers book 12 years. They, you know, it's not a hard and fast rule. But on the whole, I rebuild the server, things. So, I really think it's a cost effective solution and and it delays going on. Um We do a little bit of cloud database network, but it's we have servers and we try it one. It's the safest way to do business as long as you got the protections in place. So that would be my recommendation. Council Rainbow, I know you haven't got a chance to speak on this. Any recommendation from you? I >> I have to say I'm in over my head here. So >> I know that's not much help. Uh my computer just went down and I had to jockey around and I finally got it back. So I I'm I'm not a technical person and so >> you need a bigger hammer. >> I actually have a question for Councilman Brian. Is this like within your field of expertise? I know you're chips and stuff, but do you have a professional opinion on this? >> If if it was my opinion, I'd be getting server. >> I'd be continuing with server. >> To to his point, we have no idea what Microsoft's going to be doing. And yet I'm pretty confident they are going to be data mining even though in some way, shape, or form. I mean, that's basically what everybody's doing is the data. And I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, I don't know if you've looked specifically at the the the user agreement if there is any fine print in there somewhere or I mean, there could very well be some fine print in there saying that by the way >> um you know by using this system with the cloud that you know you're giving us access in some way, shape or form. I don't have to say what to the data. I mean, it's like it's like if you're buying music these days, you don't if you're buying music just to stream, it's not yours. >> Um, so who I mean, and and I'd be also I'd be very leerary of agreeing to go to the cloud if we haven't exactly looked at their their user agreement to see what what they would not access to. >> I totally like the idea of keeping the data inhouse on our own server. We're not as dependent on I mean we're dependent on the internet but if the internet goes down we still have our internal network that we can still do day-to-day work. If the if something if whomever does something and then and we're depending on the cloud now we're now we're back in a situation where we have no access. We had the fire protection council meeting that night when when Microsoft get down or went down they were scrambling for like an hour and it delayed the meeting just because we couldn't get on teams. Well, yeah. I guess my initial gut reaction was cloud just because that's was cheaper and sort of the way of the future, but I'm going to defer to the three of you. You got two experts and you who just go through this, >> but what your statement was is that was the next spot I was going. Yeah. Where's your recommendation? You we go customer Brian knows more about >> 10 grand's expensive. I'll give you that. >> But if we can put a server together for whatever it was, three something and we can see where things go in the cloud. Maybe more municipalities um would would in that direction. Maybe that you know I wouldn't be surprised if there becomes some sort of secure cloud thing that is made for for municipalities. So it's not just >> hit right and and and we have no idea what's happening with AI. AI is going to be probably taking you know doing way more than we want it to in the next four years. just to not have to go down that road. >> This this way we wouldn't have to. >> Any other questions for for >> Craig? I just wanted to attach your ransomware kind of emails and stuff. An example today is how wonderfully secure we are is Dileia was trying to purchase the paper for making the stamps and we couldn't get on to the stamps.com and he we had to get permission and he had to go in and do something. We do geo filtering now too for the city. Um, and I think we're only allowing seven countries connections because sometimes people click, you know, like I pointed out earlier and if they click something that goes to, you know, Bangladesh, I don't want it to succeed. I don't want it to. So, it gets a little inconvenient sometimes because this one was just Canada and I had not opened up Canada. So, >> and it was open US mail. >> That totally Interesting aside, the state of Minnesota's websites are all based in Australia. I don't get it, but that's >> I'll second whatever Councilman Brian's motion is. [laughter] >> No pressure. >> No pressure. I I would make a motion to um replace the server uh with the uh lightly used Dell Power Edge T350 that's being proposed for $3,180 and the and the time that it would take to swap over to that server and that we should be able to get three or four years out of it. All second. Any other discussion? Hearing none, we'll go to roll call vote. Council member Randall, you're up first. All those in favor say >> I. >> Council member Swanson >> I. >> I'm also an I. Council member Blazer >> I. >> And council member Ryan >> I. >> Thanks for being our expert on that council. >> Thank you sir. >> Pretty good. >> We actually have a couple more things in case he has a question >> just on security stuff. Are we talking cameras now? >> Um let's see. The network to the town hall and the fire department. We can wait on that if you guys aren't interested. >> I think we're just going to do that. Why don't we just do that? do it. >> Okay. >> I thought we >> did talk about >> there's really not a whole lot more cost. >> Well, it doesn't save cost >> and the door access will the security cameras I would like you to talk about because the ones IPS ones that are in there are going down consistently. Um we had one that was having some issues. Craig looked at it. They came out and looked at it. They gave me a price to fix it and it was for one camera. It was the same amount of money as it was for all the cameras to be replaced if they had to be at some point. So, um, do you want to explain your the camera system that you're familiar with? And that was a little bit more reasonable. And >> I'll try to make it quick. Um, so over the last, uh, 15 years, I've been using a product called Blue Iris. And the Blue Iris uh runs on your own bring your own hardware. So when you run it on a modern like 14th gen processor, even a 13th gen, um you can get up to like 60 cameras to work on one computer, put a big enough hard drive in to get what you want for u the duration of your storage. Like if you want a month's worth or two weeks worth uh and it runs pretty good. We run them in a probably a dozen places. They work all day every day. But I wouldn't call a professional. They're just my homegrown solution. But they they prove to be very reliable. So you put the price of a computer in, you know, 2,000 or less for a computer to handle that in cameras. And the Blue Iris software is like 80 bucks. You can buy it directly. Um and uh you just configure it. >> How much per camera after that? >> Well, is that only a $3,000 cost >> if if you can reuse the cameras that you have? Actually, all the wiring's done for most of the cameras. So, somebody said they licensed the cameras also in here. So, I think we were going out putting a camera security camera out here just to watch the telev. But I think when we did the tally, we said for 3,000 bucks, if we could use the existing cameras, if they work with Blue Iris, we'd have the whole thing replaced. Now, the exact vision was not something that I installed. It's 5 years old. It's been failing since 2021. on again, off again, on again, off again. I don't know why nobody's addressed it. I'm not an expert on that system. It's kind of a proprietary thing. And uh and uh what happens is inevitably when they go to look at footage for an incident, the camera was down during that incident and they can't get footage. So Natalie was looking for something to fix that. I looked at it. It could do a few things, but again, it's a proprietary system. And uh so we started talking about replacing they did both u everybody makes mistakes right like I make mistakes so what I'm about to say is not to be great IPS probably a great company probably one of the best I don't know but the way they configured the cameras was uh they undersized the switch so that some of the cameras would go on because they didn't have enough power >> and one of those cameras was the license plate reader and it kept going now. And I didn't know why, but I learned incidentally and accidentally that it was because of a power issue. They wanted $3,000 to replace that one camera. We put a bigger switch in to fix the camera. The switch cost like I don't think they pay for it. I think they had one over in the other building. >> Yeah, I think we did. >> And we fixed the camera, but I just thought, gosh, 3,000 for one camera. We could do the whole system for $3,000 if we could reuse the cameras on the system. So I asked her if she'd do that and she said we should talk to the council about it. Now what will the actual cost be if we have to replace cameras? Bullet cameras like ones that you set and forget. Uh those run about 80 bucks or less. You can buy them yourself too. I don't have to upcharge them. They're all available on Amazon. But there's also uh we use some RioLink uh PTZ cameras. So you can put them up and then you can adjust them. And there's even fancier cameras that and those run about 100. And there's some that are like 400 a piece, but they'll pan all the time for you or they'll lock on. They'll do AI and try to recognize between a car and a person and a bicycle or whatever. So, there's various levels you can go, but if we had to replace all cameras with just bullet cameras, you're looking at 60 70 no more than $80 a camera. How many total cameras do we have? [clears throat] [clears throat] >> So that $3,000 is a pretty good ballpark even if purchasing a computer and putting it in and then there would be labor on top of that. >> Yeah, it's a little bit of labor. It takes uh if we don't have to run cameras, it's very little labor, but it take a couple hours to program everything and get it up right. But, uh, and then there's an app that you use that you pay 10 bucks for. So, I mean, all things considered, it would it would be around that 3,3500. Um, but again, there's there's opportunities as well. Like, if you're going to upgrade the system, you want better cameras in certain spots, you know, so there's opportunities to upgrade, too. >> And it can be something that we talk about later. Just every time there is dumping at the recycling center, the has gone down and I to get the license plate reader. Um, usually on Mondays when I come in sometime over the weekend it went down. There's still no reason why he can't figure it out. >> Well, we saw it in the logs. We saw what's happening. We don't know why it's hanging, but we see in the logs that the application just hangs. It just stops working. The exact vision core recording software stops working. So, if I could just have council direction to say yes, go ahead and look into it and we can get a real final number. >> I definitely don't want to spend 3,000 to replace that one. No, >> that's what I can definitely tell you because that doesn't make any sense. >> So, counc direction uh any guidance for that look into it, get a more exact cost and bring it up? >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Work rainbow also. >> Thanks. All right. Thank you. Thanks for coming, taking time with us tonight. >> Okay. So, now we are moving off of that. So, we're now going to talk about approver resolution approving go deals and sell off. Do you want to start this or is this go to council? >> I will defer. Uh so our last council meeting we talked about um a 30-yard dumpster that the uh city wants to move out of inventory. Um and we as a council decided that it was best to go to a public type of sales for the sake of transparency and the possibility of getting the most for what we have. Um, so I took some time um and researched a a couple of different options that are used by u municipalities, counties, states. Uh, one is called gov deals and the other is called public surplus. They're they're kind of similar in what they do. Um the reason that u it's being proposed to go with gov deals is u couple different reason couple reasons is they have uh local representation and they happen to have two uh representatives company one was in Rogers one lives was in river um the other is they have the uh the largest number of prospective buyers they have over 500 5 million registered buyers um on their site um looking for things that are for sale. So, uh fairly similar in in the fees that they charge. Um Gov Deals is a little bit higher on the on the the the buyer premium. We get one and a quarter% rebate back on that. Um and uh the the process would be that um somebody on staff would uh would have to develop a relationship with Gov Deals and establish um what needs to be done as far as posting things. Uh and then um another thing about Gov Deals is they have a uh they have a Facebook presence. So we can take their link and post it to our our website and to our Facebook page so that uh prospective buyers can take a look at what we have for sale. >> So we put something on there we can link [clears throat] that. >> Yeah. They have multiple ways of of linking and uh so we would for for for items we would set um a uh one >> minimum >> uh yeah well minimum >> reserve we're reserve we would set a reserve and uh um just set establish a period of time for the auction and then uh go deals would handle the the transaction itself and then pay the and um they would pay the city. >> Will deals recommend a reserve price or do we have to say? >> I think that would be up to us and it' be best for for us to you know do our due diligence and say >> what would your recommendation be? >> Well, I I guess I would start at uh where the city was looking to initially sell it. I I think I'm optimistic that we would get more than that based on conversation that I had with somebody that knows what the value of that dumpster is. That was two, right? >> That was two. >> So start to reserve that too. >> Yeah. >> So your recommendation is go deals reserve that too. >> We have to decide on uh length of the auction. >> We do we get to decide that. >> What do you recommend for that? >> I maybe 30 days. I I don't know what typical auctions are. >> I got to just tell you right through this. I was super impressed. Thanks for doing all the work on this. Put a recommendation in there. Go deals is the answer. And is there any questions for council member Glazer, but I thought this was really well done. >> Mr. Mayor, >> it sets the process for us, which is great. Council member, >> so I do have a question on do either of these two businesses have a minimum purchase price for posting an item? Um the RCA states that um we'll move forward with the sale of city equipment after the equipment has been approved for sale by the city council. So do we do they have a minimum of what I mean can we do they have a minimum price that they would accept as a for an item? I >> I would be happy to to contact um Colin Bower again just to verify that. based on our conversation that I have with him and uh Dave the other the other representative I don't believe that there's a minimum price that we have >> you know they they post all kinds of things on there so >> yeah I don't but I'm happy to check >> yeah if you're comfortable with what what you you were told that's fine with me thank you very much >> any discussion on this >> no just thank Thank you for taking that on for us. >> Sure. >> Are there any other decisions besides length of action reserve or and website? Anything else? >> I don't I don't believe so. >> So for the resolution we're looking at the process deals was the recommendation and and so we didn't even talk about them all the time. I think that can be a decision from a recommendation that's part of what we're doing truly establishing that process. >> Yeah, I think the resolution is for gov deals that this is going to be our process. This is who we're going to sell the roll off through um and moving forward any city equipment. So like we're going to sell the brusher we would list it on here as well. I think the only thing I'd like is a motion to accept this and then a motion to or direction to say you want it at $2,000, you want it for 30 days. And is there anything else that we would need to know? >> No. >> Okay. So, take Sorry. >> So, um I'll make a motion here uh for resolution approving gut deals to sell the use rolloff. Um can put a great proposal correction. Council member Glazer put a great proposal together. Um that's my motion. >> Second or do you want a second since this is all your work? I'll take your glory. I'll second. [laughter] Okay. Any other discussion? Mr. Mayor, council member Randville, I >> I just would also thank Council Member Glazer for putting this together. >> Good. So, Council Brian, can we start with you? All those in favor, roll call vote. You already got an I in there. Council member Blazer, >> I also >> I counc. >> Okay. And then the dollar amount was 2,000. I don't think we need to touch base on it. >> M. Johnson, if you if you'd like is this something that will handle, do you think? >> Uh, yeah, I believe we've got the photos and we'll be able to >> and if you'd like me to come in to the to the office, um, you can schedule a time to connect with with either Dave or Colin Bower. Um, the first time through, I'd be happy to do that. >> Okay. >> So, >> thank you very much. >> Do you want to take C also? eyes. >> So, the approval resolution uh accepting the quote to fix the the walls at the historic town hall. So, Council Member Glazer also led this one. So, can you touch base and close with your recommendations? >> So, we we got uh contact with five different companies. Um two I was able to get in touch with, one uh actually after the fact referred me to Nean Painting. Um so, Nean Painting and Mr. handyman met out here to take a look at repairing the plaster um underneath the uh primarily underneath the windows. Some above all got some cracks. This dam just um for educational purposes, this damage occurred before the double hung windows were replaced with the vinyl windows. So, we shouldn't see it. It would have been from moisture that from the windows sweating and freezing coming off and and getting into the the wall cavity and causing that damage. So the between the double hood windows and the the weight pockets on the on the old double hoons being filled with insulation, we shouldn't have an issue with that going forward. Both both companies are proposing to do very similar things. Yes, there is a a pretty significant difference between the two estimates that we received. I can attribute that to the fact that uh one company is a is a very small company, one person um uh that has uh you know years of experience making these kinds of repairs and the other one's a much larger company. So I would that's what I would attribute the the main difference to. Um they they both included uh we did ask went back and asked them to include an option to uh paint the inter the walls um and So that is included in this and uh it'll just clean it up in here and >> yeah make it look better. I did I did ask um I I I neglected to ask uh the gentleman from Mr. handyman with this question, but um Bob Dean, I did ask about, you know, if we could do something possibly to clean up this door behind us. Um and that's certainly an option, and I could have him um get us a number to do that. But he he did have a couple different ideas on a way to to clean it up and brighten it up so that that we could eliminate the the uh the paneling. >> That would be great. So >> Natalie, do you want to talk about this piece that you brought [clears throat] in? [cough] >> Yeah, >> this is for the same piece. >> It is. He was a little bit more specific, I think, about 100 square ft about where all the cracks are. Um what how this came about is I asked the uh public works guys um if I could have them come over and paint instead of hiring it out, you know, and we haven't had a ton of snow. They've been working on stuff. Could I have somebody come over here and paint? And um it Eric actually brought it up that he did this other product in his room. I think the samples are right there or in at his house. And it's called signature stucco. And if you look at it, they do plaster patching. They would do the patching for 29.50. And then what they could do is it's called an acrylic finish to the entire room. So it's basically a skim. So everything would match. And then we have multiple colors. Um there's three different thicknesses or different patterns right there that you could do. The texture that you could do. Um it is it is more expensive. Eric's quote was uh this is a one and done. It's you're not going to have to do anything with it until you decide to do a full remodel on the on the city. I don't know if it's a product you guys are, you know, um, familiar with or not and it's really whatever council would like to do. >> And compared to the cost of this, it's very similar that Mr. Handyman, >> but Mr. Newman's price is uh really really attractive. >> It is. >> Um, and that's council member Glazer's recommendation. Um, so person would like to go with that. Um, all leg work in and providing recommendation. Open it up for discussion for any council members. >> Mr. Mayor, >> Council Randle, go ahead. >> I I just because there is a like $5,100 difference between the two um not including this last one, which would be about the same. Um, I just want to be assured that council member Glazer having after having met with these contractors it that both of them were provided the same information of what we wanted done and that they are bidding the same information same same scope of work. Um, and I understand the difference between a small business and a big business. Um, but I just that $5,000 difference makes me nervous. Um, so I just want to get confirmation from council member Glazer that again he met with them. He explained that the scope will work in the same manner to each of the um contractors and that he is comfortable with the the um bid from Neman. Council member Rainbow. I I did personally meet with both the contractors out here. We walk through um talked about the skill support and uh I'm of course you know I if if you if the council's more comfortable with me getting some references um due to you know uh that price disparity, I'd be happy to do that. Um >> would you hire to do your house? >> I think so. I don't think we need any references. >> I was going to say I'll just go with you. >> And instead of me saying I could have public works do it for $1,500, I think it's better for him to do it if that's right. >> 100%. So this is an allin price right here that we got to come in and he's going to do a professional job. >> Council, did you have a comment? >> Oh, I Yeah, I just I'm going with Ken. or council glazer, I appreciate you doing this research and all the other research and uh I would defer to you. So if you think u's the way to go on board have one more question u choice of color. Do we have some color choices? What color do we want to do? And what is his time frame to be able to do? Uh so I would be happy to get a color one from him and to make a color selection >> and then uh he's just relying on us, you know, depending on what our schedule is with with meetings and use of room. >> Mr. Mayor, >> Randall, go ahead, please. >> Um I'm just, you know, and we we didn't discuss this at the time we had this conversation. Um, would it be possible to find out what he would charge to do the entryway and the walls back past the restrooms so that we're consistent with the color? Um, if that's a if anybody thinks that's important. >> I couldn't tell you the difference in color right now. >> Yeah, >> sure. I mean, I'd be happy to, you know, call him and meet him back out here so that, you know, we can get footages and >> he knows what he's up against. >> Or even maybe just a complimentary color. You can have two colors, but they want to compliment each other. >> Yeah. I I I don't make color selections at home. So, um >> either do I [laughter] I pay somebody to do that. That's that's another department. Um, but I'd be happy to to meet and stream and back out here and all I need to do is get that key. >> Yeah, you may have it back. Thank you so much for doing this. >> Anybody want to make a motion? >> All right. So, we have a approval of resolution accepting a quote to fix the historic town walls. Council member Glader is reh recommended uh to go with painting for $3550. add on possible. Add on possible and >> he's going to quote some additional stuff. Yes, but that's the recommendation right now. >> I second. >> All right. Any other discussion? >> Mr. Mayor, >> just curious. Is there is there some sort of timing involved in this that needs to be or just working at the timing of the contractor? I'm just thinking if there is paint if we are looking at adding the other paint, is this going to be something that If if this contractor is going to do the work before the next meeting, then we probably need to just quick put something together to approve. >> So, how we want to handle the painting if we are going to repaint the >> So, if there's additional painting over there, can we just say if it's $1,000 or less that we just approve it as a council right now? >> As long as that's included. Yeah, that's >> okay. So, amend my motion. Thank you very much. So, it' be the same motion I made earlier, but in addition to paint uh the rest of the area in historic town hall, if we have $1,000 or less, we would just automatically approve that. >> Mr. Mayor, >> council member Rel and can to to speed the process, too, could we allow staff to pick the two colors, whether one or two colors? I I have faith that they're not going to do a chartreuse and a bright green. So, colors in here. >> Please. >> Um, so one final amendment to the motion is to allow staff to pick the color for the store. That is not my department. >> I'll second it. >> All right. Any other discussion? >> Okay. Roll call vote. All those in favor start with council member Randall. >> I council Swanson. All right. Also, I counc >> I >> I >> Okay, we got it. Next, safety glass. [sighs] M talk on safety glass. >> And um Dia did a bunch more looking for the polycarbonate glass. Um nobody really wanted to do it. They didn't think that it was going to be safe. They didn't like it. They quoted a quarter inch clear tempered glass with the brush nickel tracking. They felt that the polycarbonate will flex too much. It will also scratch and it won't polish very nice to the edge work. Um she still has the two different prices 975 or 1740. Um if the safety glass is something that council wishes to move forward with uh staff would recommend the heat miser glass for 975. Did >> that cover everything you had recommended last time? I think you had made a couple recommendations to >> Well, yeah, we were just thicknesses. >> There were a couple of us that were just questioning, >> you know, >> we didn't have a complete plan. >> So, these are quoting the same thing this time. >> Yes, >> I do remember that part. >> So, your recommendation is to go with the 975 for the heat miser glass. We've got three quotes and now we need four of those. >> And that includes the install and everything. >> That's for the product and the installation. >> Is there any questions at all for M? >> Mr. Mayor, >> if if there are no uh questions, um I would move to approve a resolution to purchase and install the safety glass at the city offices um with heat miser glass um not to exceed I'm going to say $1,000. >> I will second your motion. Any other discussion to vote? All right, let's move to vote. Uh we'll call vote. Uh all those in favor start with council member >> I. >> Council member Fraser >> I. >> And also an I. Council member Swansson >> I. >> Council member Rainbow >> I. >> Okay. Complete. Motion carries. Next one we're talking about is E which is the RP for civil prosecuted attorney ser uh services. This is also like a lot of pages. >> Like a lot of pages. >> That's what a request for proposal is. So can I I'm just going to start off with >> this one. >> Yes. So I asked Natalie to create a table for us so we can look at this so we can understand the cost. If you look at there was street cost there was an in uh we called it the inside rate or working for the city rate. Um, and this is again is for the CI civil side. And if you look at the very top on page one, civil rate was 250, went up to 260. And then there was a a cost for residents. And then there was also a cost if you were working with parallegal. And so I I asked Miss Johnson to break down the cost for 2025. So we could look and say, hey, what breaks down to city cost, what breaks down to residents cost, and what breaks down to parallegal cost. So if you're looking again on page one. I don't have it published up there, but there was a total of 92 hours that were passed through. City business was 293 uh for a total of 385. None of it was parallegal costs. So, you can see the total cost. Uh again, 3/4 way down the sheet paid in 2025. It was $23,840 for a pastor, but we paid as a city 67,000 67150 um for a total of $90,000. Now, if you took the other firms, and this is where your recommendation is going to come in on what you recommend and how what's the best way to do business, but I said, if you apply those same hours to the different rates, what do we have and what would the savings be? So, for BDG, we would have saved um the pass through $7,740. Um, and then the actual city business, we had saved $15,000 for a total of 23,000. We did the same thing for uh BGS. Now again because the way we were built there was no parallegal charge on there. I would expect some parallegal charge. So unfortunately we got charged the the city business rate of 220 or $230 an hour. So just looking here looking at the front page we we could have had a greater savings but at minimum it would have been 23,481 if we would add the EEG. Now if you guys read the packet there's a long-standing history with uh Mr. Rupy and his firm u all of them they gave their there's a ton of information there's 20 pages of information just talking about their firms. Uh if you flip to the last page again, this was the uh the prosecuting attorney. If you look at our total cost there, this one was broken down much nicer for our legal um fees for 138 hours at 55 um attorney's fees at 277 total hours and then uh the senior attorneys, but and then there's a breakdown of how but it ended up coming at a cost of 34,000. So that's very nicely broken down and you're you have a lot of parallegal fees which is your cheapest rate by far. So I thought that was a very effective way. Um prior to the council meeting I was talking to Miss Johnson and I said there's a substantial difference in cost from what we're paying right now to what these others recommended. And you remember what page I was on Miss Johnson? Was that 230? Just so I'm tracking the different costs. Oh, I think all the costs are on >> 235 >> 135 >> 13 I'm sorry 135. Thank you. So cost for Mr. for Mr. Rupy 240, 270 and 60. BBG is 175 145 and maybe 750 and BGS is 190 and 100. [clears throat] All right. So that kind of gives us a cost breakdown. But this is something one of the things we want to evaluate from the city side is have we reviewed costs and are we are we with most cost effective attorney service level has to be considered in that experience has to be considered but I would like to get your input this is definitely your field >> uh and what your thoughts were on this do we you also have one other consideration is if you go with Mr. group B, you have to go with a different prosecuting attorney. But if you go with BBG, you can have a prosecuting attorney. That's our current prosecuting attorney, BBG, and it could be the civil. >> And if you had a recommendation on that also, I'd like to turn it over to the customer response now. >> Yeah, I mean, I guess my initial thought on this is I think it'd be a little difficult to switch away from Ruby in the middle of the the ordinance reddrafting and stuff. And I don't think the hourly fee um is necessarily, you know, apples to apples. Like if, you know, if BBG had done it uh done the work at their hourly rate, what would it have cost? Because they might have put in more hours because Ruby has years of experience and knows what's going on here. And so >> I did not consider that. So thank you. So, I think um and I mean that's why more experienced attorneys charge a higher rate because typically they spend fewer minutes or hours on the work. Um and so I I don't think it's necessarily um accurate or fair to just straight do the math there. Um, I have some hesitation on Barney or Barna, Buzzy, and Stefan as far as civil goes. I saw they represent the city of uh St. Francis. And I don't know if we ever get into legal disputes with neighboring cities, but that would be a conflict if our attorney, our civil attorney also represented St. Francis if we got in fight about something. Um, so there's >> Is that a thing, Council? >> Yeah. So not I'm not not naming I mean we we've had issu disputes between now and road. >> Yeah. >> So it can come up not I don't you know attorney wise who knows we we got a road improvement where there's a house that's in St. Francis. So you never know. >> Um on the >> be conflict of interest if you want the BGS. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, on the prosecutor side, um, I I'm sure I remember which one it was. I think it's again Bara, Uzi, and Stefan. I think that was one where the prosecutor, they would propose uh putting on our city's work. He just graduated last year, and they're charging a flat rate, so it's not necessarily a huge deal, but, you know, he might put in more hours than another prosecutor would. And also, I mean, that's not my area of behind personal injury, not criminal. So, I have no idea if, you know, he might be less effective. I I don't know. You know, they're not super complicated crimes or prosecuting there. So, I had a little hesitation there. I do like the concept of that flat um that flat fee. As far as comparing all the law firms, I feel like if I recall correctly, Beck's Beck Law and their flat B included more work within that flat B than the other ones did. Um I I guess I would like to ask uh Miss Johnson um what is this? So I know that Berglin Bomb got Gardner and Blazer they were applying for some program for us right some diversion program to save money on prosecuting cost. Yes. And it's a grant. Um when I met with him, his conversation was is that it would potentially save the city money um from our prosecuting because they would be diverting like first time or smaller offenses off to different programs. So an example being someone stole a bunch of food from bills, they would direct if they would get directed to a program that could help them instead of being prosecuted for theft. If you have a firsttime uh drunk driver, it could be something where they send them into the classes and do them mad and do all that rather than going through a criminal system and it was supposedly takes them off. They used a um it like a trial was a test where they did this with the with new hope >> or yeah pilot pilot and this is the only firm that is um doing this and getting the grant from the city. Um he asked me or from the state he asked me in November I believe if he could go for a grant and it's a grant so of course he said yes go for it and see. um he's very he was fairly confident we would get it. It's just a matter of u how many of our cases can do that. While we were talking, I also learned a lot more. One of the things that I asked about was um the standoff case. I said, "Oh my gosh, how much is a standoff case going to cost us?" Um this is when I learned that he only does things that are less than a felony. if it's a felony or higher, it's taken care of by the county, which I thought was great for us on that. That is great. >> So, it's like the minor drug charges, the speeding tickets, the um careless driving, um the theft, the shoplifting, those kinds of things are what the city is responsible for. >> So, my concern with that, I personally am for those programs. I think they're effective and uh I think they they work, but I'm not sure the residents of the city how they would feel on, you know, sort of going soft on crime. You know, our residents love saving money, so there's that. But, you know, we're not prosecuting these crimes. So, I'm wondering how our residents would feel on that. Um, but certainly if we got approved for that, that would save us a lot of money. And even without that, I mean, it looks like, you know, historically, given the work he has been doing, the hours he's been doing, you know, he's still the cheapest option. Um, so I'm sort of a tossup between um sticking with Blazer or switching over to Beck. Those will be my top two at least. Um, and you know, as far as civil side, you know, I think we got to stick with uh Ruby at least through this year. I mean, next year makes sense to take a hard look and and do this again. But I think given that we're in the midst of the ordinance, I don't I don't >> Miss Johnson, can you talk about if you were to do um is there a possibility to do a transition um and have two firms at the same time? Meaning we're moving to a new one, but we've got some work that needs to be finished up. >> Is that possible? Did anybody talk about that? >> I have not talked to Mr. Ruby about that. I did talk to another attorney about what the transition would look like because I was concerned about that. Um he said a lot of times they can have one attorney finish some of the projects that they're on and then do a smoother transition. Usually all the files will go to the new one at some point. Um I think you know we do have some pretty large projects that they're working on um with the planning and zoning with the um the ordinances with bar none where there is a lot of history and you know to take um council member Swenson's um recommendation and is you know the cost versus time makes a lot of sense because Bob has a lot of that knowledge because he's done it for so many years and dealt with the bar nine, but we'll go with whatever council decides. >> The one big strike against Ruby in my mind is the higher pass through cost. I think that's sort of crappy for our residents. Um, you know, they don't have control over that. They're paying almost $100 more per hour for his pass through than, you know, some of the other correctly. >> So, that sort of stinks. But again, you know, Just because it's a higher hourly rate doesn't necessarily mean it costs more in the long run. He might do it more quickly or more efficiently because he's got that experience. So again, it's it's not strict. >> Can I ask you one more question that it's pertinent here? So if I look at BBG talking about on page 163 so they represent on the prosecuting side and the civil side, but give you an example. Um city of Elk River, they have the same prosecuting attorney. Is it acceptable to have the same prosecuting attorney? Is it only the civil attorney you want different or do you want them both different? Because they also uh they also have Oak Grove as the prosecuting attorney. >> Yeah, I don't know that neighboring uh prosecuting [clears throat] or prosecuting attorneys who also represent neighboring cities. I don't see as much conflict there. >> So that's not they're not button heads. >> It's really the civil side is where you would want that. >> Yeah. and and even there it's it's you know it's sort of a stretch that there might be a conflict but the fact that there might be a conflict that would be pretty tough if you got into a legal fight and we had to go find some new law firm just for that fight against for instance >> okay so last thing can you come up with your recommendation on what we do with this proposal this RFP >> I mean my thought my recommendation is stick with rupee for the the civil and I guess my you It's really a tossup, but I I guess I I'm leaning towards Beck Law just because I know we've had issues with timely invoicing from Blazer. I >> thought they got that fixed though. It was in here that >> Yes. >> Well, I said they got it fixed. Have we gotten timely invoices since they said that they fixed it? >> Yes. And the claims for January was actually here. >> Well, we're still discussing who to hire. Wonder if it's going to be timely. >> Oh, so skeptical. [laughter] He did tell me that someone else was doing his billing, but that is no longer his forte. >> Was definitely one of the objectives was fixing that. So, but it sound like that worked out. So, would you stick with our current prosecuting attorney, which is BBG? We'll go with Beck. >> Is there a cost difference for Beck? Because I don't see a cost difference on the sheet for >> Well, Beck is a flat rate. So, it's 3,000 whereas BBG on average has been charging about 28.47. So, it's pretty close. But historically BBG or not, yeah, BBG has been 150 cheaper per month. Um, I guess I would lean towards that. I mean, we got a lot of experience. The two attorneys that would be working on our cases, they got 20 years and 15 years experience. And the price difference, you know, it's not that much. I I would be hesitant to rely on the historical average rate and projecting that forward. Um I I like the idea of a flat rate and knowing exactly how much we're paying for the next however long we employ him or use him. So I I would lean towards back I guess is my thought, but I could just as easily go back to >> I do have one question as per an attorney if that's okay. Mr. >> Yeah, go ahead. Um for Beck their office in St. Paul, do we get charged for their We usually get charged for travel time to come to the city. >> I was part of the flat fee. >> I don't Yeah. >> Well, it lists in here what is included. >> While you're looking that up, council for questions and hopefully you're directing that. Council Swinton. >> Oh, it does have mileage. >> That's part of the addition. >> Yeah, it's part of >> what page is that? >> That is 192. >> So, the other piece that come out was how much work was this for the staff to put this RFP together? Um, so if we do just say do nothing with it this year and and roll with keeping Mr. Ruby um this year and going back and doing this again, how much time did that What I don't want to do is waste your time, but at the same time I want to be most cost effective for the residents. >> Yeah. Um the initial RFP was, you know, a few days getting it all together and working with the leads attorney. Um, but now that it's put together and we know what we want, I would just basically repost the same or switch it to just the civil if that's what you're indicating. >> Well, I think we got an answer from your recommendation. It doesn't matter if civil and prosecuting are together. So, I thought that might be a creative way to help save some money, but it doesn't. You've rebuffed my concept of just look using labor and time. Thank you for putting the table together, but I needed something to look at other than this helps us look from a cost effective side, but it you already rebuffed it. You said it doesn't it's not exactly apples to apples. So, um that took away what I was thinking that I was on with information, but it was incorrect information. So, I I haven't done it. So, open it up to the council. Would you like at this point to make a motion with your recommendation or is there any other comments for the group? >> Sounds like we're ready for a motion. >> I would make a motion to uh stick with Ruby for civil and I think uh switch to Beck for prosectoratorial. That's my motion. I will second your motion. Any other conversation or discussion? Hearing none, we'll move to vote. Uh we'll start we'll do a roll call vote starting with Council Member Rainbow. >> So, Mr. Mayor, um just discussion on the motion. Um, >> I I I appreciate everything that Corey and Rupy have has has done for the city. Um, but when you look at the dollars, um, we do have a potential of a cost saving there. The question is is should we just choose the criminal right now and have more discussion on this the the the civil in that we would maybe keep and it was mentioned earlier keep Corey and Rupy figure out what four or five big things that they're working on um let them finish those and and um also choose a a new civil um that would take anything on that's new that that would you know we we'd be able to keep the expertise of Corey and Ruby finish up the big things but then bring a new new law firm in to deal with our civil a and that was one of the discussion points that I asked counc on it, but his recommendation was just leave it as is and then >> what I would like to see is this RFP process next year when we've got these major projects. So just >> sticking with what we have that was the >> Okay. I just was just a point of discussion. Thank you. >> All right. So was there other discussion that need to take place or can we go back to the vote? >> So I wanted to start with roll call vote starting with yourself council member Rainbow. Uh, all those in favor say I. >> I. >> Council member >> I. >> I'm an I. Council member Glazer. >> I. >> Council member Brent. >> I. >> Okay. So, thank you. We We've at least reviewed it as a council. So, I think that was significant. Uh, didn't go the way I think it was going to go at all. I thought it was going to be totally different from that, but Okay. >> Mr. Mayor, just kind of a following about this. H how council member Swanson, how would you compare a situ the total example that you had. >> So the rates and >> right the rates I mean if we're if we strictly looked at numbers and hours and we would have seen significant savings but I would tend to agree that because countless times attorney Rupy said oh I I just did that for such and such a city so that I just literally got to do a find and replace and it's done >> versus having to completely reddraft it. How in the world would you do some sort of comparison like that? You know, I I don't really know. There's there's no way to do it exactly. I mean, you can talk to references and see how the attorneys at the other firm are. Are they quit at with their work? Do they build excessively? Um I mean, it's I think really just about contacting um like people recommending them. I I don't know. I mean, I don't have a good answer for it. >> There's no attorney rating. [laughter] No kidding. >> [cough and clears throat] >> I think you bring up a great point because you can't just do an analysis on Excel. >> I would love that. All right. So, we're moving on. Next one. Fill the open position for planning and zoning. >> Um, Mr. Mayor, >> council member, Miss Johnson, go ahead. >> We have um chairperson Ha here as well. um so that if he has some input as to what um the commissioners may want to do as we're having this discussion, may he participate? [clears throat] >> Absolutely. >> Want to come up? >> Do you want to come up to the podium um Mr. Chair and tell us if you have a recommendation on the best way to proceed uh to fill this position? >> So I think the commission would would be willing to interview candidates. the council wishes that otherwise we can leave it up to the final decisions up to the council. >> So you would do the interview and then you bring back a recommendation uh for the council. Is that what you're suggesting? >> That would be an option. >> Council Johnson, >> I like that option because I honestly don't know what it is that your commission totally does. So I don't know what the the strong or desirable attributes in a new member would be whereas you probably know exactly what you're looking for. So I would I would like to have your recommendation probably. >> So recommendation from the P&Z and then we'll bring it to council for approval. >> Um Mr. Mayor, go ahead. >> One of the other conversations that he and I had this afternoon was um there's a lot of people that maybe aren't on social media and the best way that we advertise the position is open is on Facebook and on our website. Uh he suggested a banner kind of like what the fire department has at the corner there and ask if we can just put it up and say planning and zoning commission, you know, um applications being taken. I would do something generic so that we can use it every year when we have to do the applications. But is that something that council would be willing to spend a little money on and leave it up for what would your suggestions are? 30 days? >> At least a month. So, any idea the proposed cost? We're talking less than $200 or something. >> Yeah, >> I don't know what our signs cost. >> I believe that signs. Yeah, something like So, I think you should be able to do one or two signs for $200, something like that. Um, so you would advertise. You would open a position for it's already been open at this point and you would give an additional 30 days while you're advertising to see if you got more applicants and then you would go through the process. >> I think that should work. >> Okay. Any other questions for Mr. Hwell? >> Mr. Mayor Randall. Um I'm wondering if we can So this position was an existing it's it's a filling a vacancy and that vacancy is it ends December of 26. My question is and I didn't have a chance to look it up. Is there I don't believe any of our policies prevent us from making this a a three-year term because other words we're going to have to renew it in January if it if it's going to expire because it's existing a term expires December 2026. Could we just make it a three-year term and it goes in with the other ones that are that year and eliminate the need to >> we we certainly could. We would just have to make the decision as a council. So, typically they're three-year terms. Uh we have a total of seven under council. So, we have three, three, that doesn't make sense. Must be three, two, and two is how they're renewed. Uh in this case, this term ends in December of this year. So, council member Randle's recommendation is we would just start it as a fresh three-year process right now. I would certainly be fine with that, but you guys would have to >> Is it going to screw up other positions only? >> No, because it just switches the three uh the two that were going to be done at the end of this year. It just makes it >> Oh, what? Yeah, because then you're gonna >> we're going to have too many. See, I'm >> then you wouldn't have two. you would only have one that year and then you'd have three or four that you have. >> So, >> okay, never mind then. >> It was and if I go to look in my files, >> I'm going to wipe out my screen to do that. Um, so it would be basically a one-year term for them, but what we've what I've seen and and councly, but most of the time, um, if a person is on the P&Z and they want to renew themsself, I've seen them approved in the past as long as they want to continue. That's typically what we've been doing. because I think it really has if there's that that um I mean theoretically the position would be open anybody could fill it but I think if we've asked nobody's really said anything if there's been a vacancy when when a term came up and do this kind of asked them if they were willing to continue on and then we brought it back to the council and approved it >> in January we two they both renewed >> they did but we did make them go through the process they did have to fill out an application and it was open to the public if anybody else wanted to apply at that time. >> Um, in the past I think they were just called up and asked. Now we currently have Yes, it is formalized. And that is kind of what I was looking for. We could not find any kind of policy that said what we do with the resignation here. >> Um, I do know like we know how we do it when the term is up. So, if we're going to have have it open for 30 days, have the commission do the [clears throat] interviews, make a recommendation, bring it to council, and at that point, um, then we'll appoint and that'll be the policy and I will actually will add it to the conviction. >> So, hopefully we can do that by like April. So, they've got a few months in session so they can understand if they like it and then if they want to review. Um, and the other key thing is just reviewing attendance to make sure that people are attending. So, as long as they attend and you're you're happy with it, then we would re renew them as a council. And if you're not happy, you got to let us know that you're not happy with them. That person not >> Okay. Do you have any other questions for Mr. Apple? Commissioner >> Okay. M Yeah, Mr. I like I I like the opportunity of of having some sort of interviewing process and if PNZ commission is willing to take that on um I would certainly accept that offer >> because I believe that's res we've had resignations in the past. I believe that's basically the same thing that we we've done in the past do interviewing and then make recommendations. >> That's what they they had mentioned too. So thank you for coming up. But uh so it sounds like uh we're going to be unanimous without even doing a vote. There's not a resolution, but any concerns if he does the interview, brings it back. I think we're we're good across the board. >> You're good to go, sir. >> So, do we have to schedule a meeting then for interviews at some point? >> We could if you're thinking that we want to uh schedule a special meeting so that we can have a full commission for the really busy at the end of the month. Um, that probably wouldn't work with the time frame, but we could do it at the before the February meeting. Or would it have to be the full council or could we just do a committee? >> Are we talking the P&Z committee? >> Yeah. I mean, could you do like three of your members to do the interviews or do you want to do it as a full? >> Yes, we could bring it up at the next meeting. >> Okay. >> Correct. Because it's going to be open for 30 days anyway. So, you can bring it up. can give us input and if you want to do it as three, you can do a three. You want to do a seven, do a seven. >> Could be added to the agenda on the next. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Do we have to vote on paying for the banner? >> Um, but we could do >> $200 unless you really want to. >> Okay. I would prefer not to. >> All right. >> We can go through the process if it's important to you. >> Okay. Are we complete on this? Thank you, Commissioner Apple. I appreciate you coming out. >> Thank you. >> All right, moving on to the next one. All right, Mr. Blazer, you're up on this one. Yes, sir. >> Uh, this is about state flag, city offices, and historic law. >> I I I fully recognize that um we had discussion and a vote on this back in uh November 18th of 2025 um based on Mr. Crater's you complaint to the city. It's and it's not the the only complaint that I've received. I am asking the council to take a look at this again. The last time that our flag was redesigned prior to this was in 1983 and it was very much a bipartisan effort to make those changes. Um I recognize um you know and I have the the meeting minutes here with me. I recognize what you know the the point that council mayor or council member Rainbow made um what's what's stopping the Republicans if if they um you know have have the trifecta that the Democrats had from doing the same. Um my point to my representative and my senator would be that this needs to be bipartisan if we're going to change our state flag based based on the fact that it was very much a partisan effort to redesign the flag that we have now. Based on that seven over 7% of now then voters from both precincts did not get representation in the redesign of their state flag. and the conversation that we had back in November and even you know um council member Swinson um said either let's see what the his comments were um regardless of political disagreements it is the official state flag of Minnesota and as a Minnesota city um keeping in mind we're not legally bound to fly a state flag and that's why I'm I'm bringing this back up again either fly the current flag or you even said don't fly a at all. [clears throat] City politics is supposed to be nonpartisan. This is very much a partisan issue in the state of Minnesota. You no matter how you slice it, there's it's very partisan. There's a lot of people that are very unhappy about not only the design of the flag, but how the process to redesign the flag. I am I am asking the council I would like to to I'm asking the council to make this a u nonpartisan issue and and not divide the residents of the city of N then I would like to make a motion that the city of Nan not fly the state flag based on the current conditions and if in the future a redesign of the flag is done in a in a bipartisan effort then we make made a decision at that time to to continue applying the play. But right now, not all residents um are being represented and that's why I'm bringing this back up to >> Okay, we'll put the council for discussion. >> Mr. Mayor, >> I um take your points about the nonpartisan. [snorts] I guess I disagree on how to exercise nonpartisanship. Um I think, you know, seating to residents in their misconceptions about, you know, what the flag represents. I think going that route is partisan. I mean, it is the Minnesota state flag. I think we just leave the Minnesota state flag up on the flag pole. You know, I would feel, you know, if we pull that down, what's to stop us from, you know, having some Trump hater say take down the American flag or put up, you know, a Confederate flag or put up a rainbow flag. I mean, it they're not official flags. I I think the only nonpartisan way to handle this is to hang the official flags. And I think it's reasonable given that we are in the state of Minnesota to hang the Minnesota state flag. >> Alto Rainbow, I think you >> Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um this this the history of Burns Township and now the city of Nan since 2008 has been to fly the state flag. I believe we should continue with that tradition. Again, we are a non-partisan board that should take keep politics out of our decisions. Council member Glazer talks about that, you know, we're we're so conservative. I in three of my four elections, I've placed first place. I'm a woman, which doesn't go over with the conservatives. I am from [snorts] Minneapolis that doesn't go over with conservatives. I'm a strong supporter of labor and I'm a Democrat. Was born and raised a Democrat, but I don't let those things get in my view to take take over my view. But I won by majority. So people are okay with that. If people don't like the flag, they don't have to like the flag. But as a township and as a city, our history has been that we fly the US flag and we fly the Minnesota flag. And I believe we should stay with that history. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Sure. Um [sighs] it's an interesting time that we're in and I was literally reading an article on Newsweek today about uh Lee Herald, the owner of Herald's Flags in Rochester, Minnesota said that um he was quoted as saying, "Protest and defiance is what I now see in customers buying the new flag. I do not want the city of Nadan to be represented as protest and defiance." And I just would would rather have I mean just because something's been tradition doesn't mean we need to continue to do it. Um and and traditions can be changed and policies can be changed. And if and if if it's a matter of not flying a state flag because we don't have to or flying it or and because to to remove the possibility of of having any sort of um issues with it from any of our residents. It just seems that that would be a better approach. [clears throat and cough] >> Just It is some perspective. I just went to the mayor's meeting. Uh I'm sorry to leave the Minnesota city training and I talked to multiple mayors specifically on this and um it's definitely a controversial issue. Myself personally, I I really dislike how the process went. Love to see a flag vote on by the state of Minnesota and not select um you mention this council glazer, but we're supposed to be nonpartisan. Part of being nonpartisan is not worrying about any of that. Um there's many communities in our north that don't fly our flag at all or they have chosen to not even remove the old flag and you're still flying that. So there is a vast difference. Um but I do look at it as this is no matter the process whether I like it or not our state has selected a state flag. Um again it does it's not about what we personally like. It's about what is the right thing for the city. Um, and we are in the state of Minnesota. So, I think that's probably falling very similar to how we last time. There's no reason to take down a flag if it's a state flag. How it got there? I think that'll get resolved. Is it some amount of time? Absolutely. I think it'll get resolved and we very well could have a different one. But if the new one is published, I would like to fly that new one, whatever that looks like or if it's the old one. But whatever that state flag is that is is I would like to flag. So I'll open it back up one more time if there's any any counter arguments um that need to be stated. >> Mr. Mayor. >> Yes ma'am. >> At your classes did anybody say that the cities did a vote on it? And when is this something that we can put on the ballot? >> You can certainly put it on the ballot. >> Did anybody say >> no? So no. Uh I talked to many mayors and many of them just didn't remove the old flag. they still have the old flag up. That's a lot of motiv. >> So, it is it's a controversial issue and my goal is not to go in there with our council at all is stay bipartisan um and simply let the decisions for our city reflect our city and that's the way I'd like to go. So, one more time for any other questions. Thank you everybody for keeping it very professional and as nonpartisan as possible. So, thank you for that. Um with that, I'll open it up for vote. Mr. Mayor, >> was there a second to council member Glazer's motion? >> I'll second the motion to not fly state. [clears throat] >> So, thank you for catching that. I missed that. Um, counc all those in favor of say. >> So, the motion is to not fly a state flag. Just being clear. Correct. So, my vote would be I coun >> I. Okay, I'm gonna be a nay >> Johnson. >> Nay. >> House Relo >> Falls in line. But again, thank you for keeping it professional. You may not always agree, but we we get there in a decent manner. Okay. You had uh was it B that got brought down and that is now H. That was one of those. >> Yes, sir. >> Can you touch base on what you'd like to talk about the treasury report? Um, so I just couple of questions pertaining to fire department and the chief is not here tonight. I maybe I don't know M. Johnson can answer these questions. Um, one one question I had was um, December Legal Services Jervices. >> I sorry I'm on page 12. No, I have that, but I didn't pull that one. Um, he had to write um >> So, first I want to point out $4,930 for that one residence alone in the month of December. Yes, that was for the code compliance that we all voted or that was voted on to go forward. It is um sending the letter, serving the letter, um telling him to cease and desist, and then um the owner of the business called worked out a deal with him as to when he would stop the business and that he had to have a CUP by a certain time and he had to have a permit for um demolition for the salt building so that that would go down. So yeah, there were many conversations. >> Are we are we approaching being done with this because I mean I don't I forget what we what the city spent in 2024 early 2025. >> It's a lot. Um he is on the agenda for the PNC at the end of February. So once he can get an IUP in place and he has rules and regulations that he needs to follow, then we've got something to go back on for a compliance. If he is no longer complying >> and he has until May, I believe to take down that structure. >> This is going to be brought to council just to vote down there. But I believe looking forward that we are we've got in this one more but it has that maybe >> um you know [clears throat] I wasn't totally involved last year. wasn't out of budget consciousness, I guess, because we knew it was going to cost a lot. And I think that was sort of unfair to our residents, specifically, you know, his neighbors who were dealing with all that traffic. And so, I mean, he sort of, the way I see, we stepped up and we did what we needed to do to enforce our codes and and that enforcement action unfortunately is expensive. I just I don't think there's any way around going to enforce those. And this is actually cheaper than what we did earlier that year. >> That's correct. >> In 2025, it was like 8 or 12,000 something. This is own five in the res, >> right? Previous >> to me this is a solved situation. Now it's completely >> Yeah. >> almost when he had his attorney. Previously we had the engineer, the planner, the mayor, the attorney, I'm sorry, and then also the um code compliance all out at the site. So, there's definitely been that. And I will just let you know, um, just yesterday I had a resident asking me, "Why are we a complaint based city? Why do you only do something if you get complaints?" You know, and quite frankly, we tried to I don't I don't know. Does anybody know why we are a complaint based city and why we don't enforce all of our ordinances? Because it I mean obviously obviously it counts costs a lot of money. >> Well, right. You would end you would end up being it would be my opinion that you would end up hiring a full-time person to be to be going around and literally you'd be looking at all somebody would be going around and and and walking on every property and going, "Oh, this is wrong. This is wrong. Oh, we need to change this." As well as if if someone actually filed a complaint. And I don't I would say that that expense would be way more than what what we what we have been paying for for co- compliance throughout the years. >> Right. And just in the last I would say in the last year we've been or a year and a half or so we've been trying to follow up on the complaints to make sure that things are getting taken care of and a lot of them have been taken care of just by one visit by the deputy with a a letter or just a nice reminder that this is a myth. Um, unfortunately, this one is it's carried on from last year and he is operating a business without an IEP and it needs to take its time to do so. I mean, we have had complaints and we've had set um gone out in pairs and and and with council members to go to talk to the residents because that was of no cost to the city to go what's going on, what we need to do, what we need to fix this. Um, in the past we have had our code compliance officer um, who also was our former planner who put together going on site evaluating and and some of the challenges of okay residents just decided not to do anything and then then those fees were assessed back to individuals on their property taxes to to pay for the fees that were incurred. So, um, there's all sorts of different ways to do code compliance, but I would think it's going to be more expensive to the city. We were actually hiring somebody to go out to to do all these investigations on on all the IUPC fees. Oh, if you don't have one, oh, you should have had one. There's all sorts of time in research and figuring all that stuff out, which would have to be paid for and at a city cost because it's not necessarily something that can be be charged back to the res. And on the issue of, you know, complaintbased city, I mean, I think that fits perfectly in our city. You know, sort of leave each other alone and only do something if it's really an issue. You know, some if that business were located on another street, maybe those neighbors wouldn't even care. >> And so, you know, there's no need to go out and enforce rules that aren't bothering. Like you said, it costs money, time, and it just gets us as a city involved in our residents business, and no one wants that. So, minimum touch, >> and there's obviously exceptions to that, as have been stated multiple times, if it has to do with a a a health and or safety issue. >> Yeah. >> Yes. [clears throat] >> Mr. Mayor, >> council member Randall, >> um, and Council Member Brian. Yeah. I remember going out as groups of two to talk to the homeowners and really tried to get um the homeowners to talk to each other, the neighbors to talk to each other to see how they could work together to try to eliminate the issues. We've tried to direct people to mediation. Um but mediation takes two willing partners or two willing residents and that isn't always the case. Um Jay's service has been a a thorn in those neighbors side. Um it would be nice if we were able to find a way that the expenses that the city has incurred could be assessed back to his property taxes. But I don't know if we have a legal avenue for that. Um that would be a a determination by our attorney. But it would be nice. Um he caused it. he, you know, again was a burden on his in his neighborhood and um it's a shame that the city residents have to pick up that cost. I mean, going forward as we change our ordinances and change our zoning um hopefully that won't occur again. >> Thanks for the question on that. Are we good with uh >> I I've got just a couple more a couple more items. Uh, M. Johnson, I've got a couple questions on the repair and maintenance to several pieces of fire equipment. Is this is this annual preventative maintenance that has to be done? Page 13. >> No, I'm sorry. Which company? >> Uh, it doesn't it doesn't say just fire Safety USA. >> Okay. That's the name of the company. >> Yeah. You say 14 or you want 13? >> Uh 12 and 13. >> Oh, top bottom of 12. Top of >> Oh, yeah. There you go. Fire safety. >> Okay. >> So, on 113, an arctic compressor needed to be replaced. Doesn't tell me which vehicle So, he's got travel and labor of 172 and the part was 22. Um, we've got a Bullard Retract visor retainer kit that was for It says lightweight traditional style fiberglass structural fire helmet with visors. Uh, that one is a 440 or I'm sorry, $440.90. Um, Streamlight Survivor with chargers. That's another helmet light probably for the We've got three and four. So, that's for the new firefighters. Tanker number two needed a full chassis service with inspection, oil changes, oil filters, coolant filters, hydraulic filters, hazardous waste fee, um, and labor and travel hours of $195. So >> tanker choose the old tanker. >> Yes. Engine 50. Same kind of deal. U full cha chassis service inspection. Annual pump preventative maintenance inspection. Um change pump transmission fluid lubricate drive lines operate and inspect all valves. Um oil change oil filters. Water fuel separator. Fuel filter disposal fee and um travel hours. Is >> this all coming out the fire budget? >> Yes, under repairs and maintenance. Yeah, >> under specifically under fire. >> Yep. So, this is um this one is a dome for the cab light. There was something missing on that and a mic clip. Then rescue one and grass one. Uh the full service for both of those oil filters, fuel filters, spark plugs. That's pretty much what it is. So, yes, I would say almost all of this is annual service that needs to be done with a few things getting fixed and some uh materials for the new or um equipment for the new firefighters as far as >> Yeah, just seems like a lot at once, too. I I will say that um we are also in the process of getting all of our trucks and trailers do DOT. So that is kind of our annual stuff. So I'm not sure we're just getting the lists now. So I know what everybody's doing in their seasons. Um, so if I'm saying public works is getting DOT stuff, I would guess that fire department is also doing their annual >> and I can ask chief to kind of give me the same seasonal things because I ask public works for that so that I know what we're doing for budgeting as what can I expect to come up? >> Does fire safety come here to do the work? >> Yes, sir. >> I mean, I guess that would make sense. They're here anyways to fix everything. The the last I have is um we had a in the big picture it's a small item but we paid Lo26723 to repair the tool kit. Was that the old tool kit? And if we had a repair done in January when we were trading it in >> I believe so >> there could be also a delay if the invoice come in January. It could have been done earlier. We don't know the answer on that but that's just one thing to consider. Okay, it was a 34 mega tough hose hose crimp oil hose guard and then hydraulic >> hydraulic one. >> Yeah. So, yeah, it's $267. >> They do that for operation though. >> Does it say what the date of the service was on it? I know you got the invoice >> January 9th. That was the date of the service. >> Well, no. Um, no. >> It could have been back in the >> It's not not important. It's just something to bring up. Anytime we get invoices typically by 30 to 45 days, >> it could have been done. >> Yeah. And Lexi doesn't have it dated that it was a December invoice. So, it's got to be a January invoice. So, >> um, does that know your >> Yes, sir. Thank you. >> So, moving on. Very last item we have. >> Mr. Mayor, we got accept. >> Yes, ma'am. Council member, >> it sounds like council member Bryant said we have to make a motion to um accept the claims so they can be paid. >> Mr. Mayor, >> thank you guys for keeping me honest. Thank you. >> Make a motion to accept. Well, I'd like to our bills to get paid. >> Second. [laughter] >> I made the Yeah. Make a motion to to Air claims present presented as presented second by >> second. >> Any other discussion? >> Okay, moving forward. Roll call vote. All those in favor? Council member Rainbow starting with you. >> I council Swanson. >> All right. I'm also an I. Counc. >> I Brian. >> I. >> All right. Thank you for uh keeping on track. All right. So, the last one is old business. It's just a Comcast update. Uh Comcast continues to make progress. Do you have the site map? Can we put it up there, Natalie, or no? >> Okay. So, it's on the very last page of your book. Yeah, there's there's the map. And it talks about these different areas. It's rolled one through uh 1 through six. Um right now, they have make ready about 1,69 residents right now that are are make ready, meaning that they could have Comcast active in their house right now. They still got they're finishing up road two, which is in the northwest corner, and they're moving down to road six, which is the unsubsidized area. Um due to some of the cold weather, it is slowing down a little bit in January. We're really looking forward to uh um continuing to work in February with the warmer temperatures going into March. Um so we'll have a follow-up meeting the day of our next city council meeting just to make sure we get the update from them. Uh they believe that they will wrap up in March um pending pending where the state. >> And then for the residents, this will be added to the packet online if anybody wants to take a look at it. So, how how do we know? >> Did you stick on there on the map after who was made ready? [snorts] >> So, can I just show you um just to hold it up here? So, they started down here. So, this is all made ready. They're finishing up in Wu, which is the northwest corner, and then they'll come down to unsubsidized, which is yellow. >> So, yellow's already >> it has some most >> you should be you should be making. You should have been quite in front of the lazy tum. >> I'll give you the number. >> Um, Mr. Mayor, um, so I see that if I'm reading this right, we have a when they we say passings, we that means there's,69 homes that have service available to them, but only 28% 28 29% have actually taken it as Comcast. Can can they explain that as it it probably is like a weather thing where it became came um I mean even though you can get it installed now just to be clear that just people are kind of waiting till the spring because I do know residents that had it hooked up then found out that because they couldn't get buried in time they literally had to have it taken out again. >> Um so is there a plan do they expected those numbers to go up >> in the spring? Yep. So you're you're exactly correct. Not all residents want it right now because they could have a cable running through. Um they actually done really well. They said this last month um where more customers are signing up even though it is I'll say tough conditions out there. Uh but they really think in the spring it'll take off and grow. >> Oh yeah. That my wire is literally just dangling from the from the foam but it works great. So >> there you go. >> I'm site so till spring anyway. >> Okay. Any questions on the Comcast update? >> Mr. Mayor, >> Council Rainbow, >> I'm wondering if um if staff I know Natalie said this will be in the packet, but if staff could post something online. Um a lot of times I think it's just people are not aware that it's available yet in their in their area. I know Comcast said they were going to put a a door knocker on. I don't know if that's happened in all the areas, but I know I notified numerous or my husband notified numerous people in my neighborhood um that it was available. Um and so we got we we now have it. It's not buried. They'll have to come back in the spring and bury it. Um but it's working and it's really fast. >> M Johnson, is that something you could post? >> Yes. >> I know. I know they did send out a mailing to my house saying that it was available. Yeah. >> Okay. they have been doing the door knocking as these rolls get completed and they are make ready they are going to door to door doesn't mean they're getting everybody I don't know uh but also can you post the phone number who they can call if they want service I think that's a really important thing >> and they will also be at night toite to be signing people up as well once everything is 100% done >> okay >> great motion