foreign [Music] the first thing we'll do is have work or the Scott Medina our city administrator all right chairman Ames here commissioner bees here did I say that correctly yep okay commissioner Carlson here commissioner hopla here commissioner Jorgensen here commissioner apparel commissioner Lewis let me repeat on here planter Stockton here and City administrator Landers further thank you now we need an approval or amended tonight's meeting agenda on October 25th is someone like to make this motion to approve this tremendous commissioner Carlson I made the motion do we have a second a second commissioner hippola maybe a second uh any discussion CNN I'll call for load all in favor the next thing we're going to do is approve amend the meeting of July 26 2022 uh minutes so long ago I'm trying to get just because they would like to make motion approve of those minutes in July 22nd 2017. Mr bees made the motion somebody might make a second I'll second it any discussion being none all in Vegas say hi hi okay there's no opposition so it carried so the sixth first thing we're going to do is open the first public here the first public hearing is a consider a variance request at 20885 England Boulevard to allow a new Resident 100 feet from the ohwl of the Bear Lake 50 foot variants and uh pin number 17 days 33 days 25 days 42 days 003 okay the first first thing I'm going to do is ask the the planet give her report uh this is a Shoreland lot on Bear Lake and there's an existing home on this 11 acre property uh it's very irregular in shape and it contains several Wetlands as well as a significant amount of Shoreland area kind of a narrow parcel uh the applicants proposed to build a new home at 100 feet setback from the ordinary high water level on the East End of the lake the required setback is 150 feet and they proposed to demolish the existing home which is on the North Shoreline so they have a shared driveway with the neighbors that comes in off of England Boulevard and then the driveway continues South and then they Veer off to the north side of the lake the existing house is kind of on the west end of the parcel and they're proposing to build in this area more on the east side and these are the Wetland boundaries here um the existing house set back to the ordinary high water levels approximately 93 feet and like I said what they are proposing is a hundred foot setback from the ordinary High this dotted line here showing the 150 foot setback and then the required setback from this Northerly Wetland is 50 feet they had it shown at 75 which is why I just corrected that they had it indicated up here property properly 50 foot structure setback and a 25 foot buffer um there's a 30-foot setback from this other Wetland here and then they also have to get in the primary and back up septic site um the actual bed has to be 10 feet from the property line which it is and then the feathered area of the Mound can go up to the property line so the home is kind of at an angle this then being the garage and then their driveway would Veer off and intersect with this existing Drive so as you can see they're a little tight here um on this side of the drive and there's a Knoll here on the lot which will allow them to achieve their lowest floor elevation and then this area drops down I think it was possibly mind or some of this area was and as are a lot of properties and now then and then it becomes official Wetland after it's left for many years this is the elevation of the home with kind of a skewed garage and just the general floor plan you'll note that they have a future deck and a sun porch which are also shown here within that 100 foot setback so those would not be any closer to the lake and then this line is showing the line of grading the 75 foot grade Impact Zone they can't grade beyond that point or disturb any vegetation there so we have gone through the this is a variance review criteria in the report and we can go through those individually if you'd like I know lots of you are familiar with them definitely think that they have a case for a variance I guess the biggest question is how much I do think it's not an unreasonable request we have issued another variance I think pickerel lake or 100 foot setback in past years and the fact that they are going to demolish the existing home is a plus because as I stated that one is closer to the lake than the proposed one with that I will open it up for any thoughts or comments and any comment from the applicant if that's okay with the chair okay is the applicant here if you've got any comments to make um nothing other than you grew up on this property my family's been there for 30 years and I would really like to be able to continue that and this variance is probably going to be required okay if you've still got to go through the DNR and they've got to improve it through yeah Mr chair yes sir um yeah I have emailed the DNR three times and they have not responded they were provided to the public hearing date the first date on the second date um and our ordinance does allow the city to move forward with approval or even to oppose what the DNR recommends provided that you um as we always do make list the reasons why we're you know making our decision in our findings of that so see the city adopted those Shoreland rules so your in essence um you know the controlling factor of the Shoreland rules um I in the past the area representative has made comments you know such as Desiring gutters or controlled drainage or that kind of thing but in this case I have not heard from from him um erosion control here would be a big factor the applicant also moved forward with a separate grading plan so he could get going on grading presumably this week or next and that's been approved by engineer Nelson and yeah as long as he's using erosion control and signs our grading agreement uh we're good to go on our end I'm going to ask Scott here if all the legal Publications and meetings were posted have been completed yes to my yes to my understanding as Liz and I went through that all the Publications have been completed you had to redo it before they got redone after the last meeting was was canceled everything was redone and sent back out a second time okay yes do we have any more questions to ask here of our planner or Mr uh Mr chair yes do we want to add in under the uh the conditions that they have to remove the existing home I mean I know it's stated that they're planning on doing that but do you need to I mean should we have that as part of the approval uh absolutely I thought I had it in there did I miss it I I thought if it's not in there then it should be yes [Applause] but we'll make sure it's in there yeah [Applause] no you're correct I don't see it so the catch is there a timeline associated with that typically I don't know what what is the plan for removing the existing home I have a specific timeline in mind right now I assume you're living in that now until the yeah okay okay we very much right yeah makes sense usually Mr chair um they would give like a temporary certificate of occupancy until they meet all the conditions and then okay so we did but yeah as long as it's in our findings okay we just remove the home yeah okay uh you mentioned that uh about the road that goes there try to go doesn't everybody have to use the road for a little ways in off in England share it up to a certain point correct is that in uh somehow posted in their uh ownership of their property I had a conversation with with Mr Clover and about that too and I know Mr Gustafson is working on an easement agreement it is a legal access because it's been used for more than 15 years the way it is so it is illegal access in the eyes of the Court but I did suggest that they get in writing a shared access agreement yep don't you think that should be on we should require that on paper because uh tonight at the home ownership's changed um no it's still a legal out of record and the access is legal but I mean we can certainly include it I guess I it's a little bit out of our control but um because it involves another owner and the the driveways on the owner's property so we can't have a condition addressing the neighboring property when we have the applicants you know that have made application just with this parcel that's my only concern so it is a legal access it is a legal out of record okay I mean we can still move forward in granting the request that's what you're concerned about yeah I I'd be concerned if it was that way it was all legally done right I suggest you know I made that suggestion to the owners if I may our plan is to have that signed easement in place before completion of the construction of the new home I can check with the attorney if you'd like and then get back to have an answer before the city council meeting well it might be a good idea anyway I Mr chair yes um so that so if it's already a legal access then just this the signed certificate that's just a added makes it easier if a problem were to occur I guess I'm wondering yeah if it is already a legal access why would we add that into wherever a disagreement then on a written agreement signed by both parties and notarized and recorded would keep the situation out of you know but but for this purpose okay yeah but in the eyes of the state law it's a legal access okay once you've used it that one but the biggest problem is what I look at is the maintenance of it well they yeah whatever right on you know right at the beginning often England is that comes into it goes into your property is uh who maintains it or uh in the past up until my five passed away last year they um sort of traded off maintenance year by year between the goodalls and my dad um but that would be part of the new agreement that I would put in place with the gossip sentence prior to moving in their house here in terms of exactly how that would be split up in the future because I did talk to Mr Augustine and he says there's no problem maintaining it he got the equipment to do there but the question is if somebody else came in and bought his property uh Liz do you think that we should have that listed with one of the uh uh recommendations in here um I don't know if we can like I said because another property owner I would like to check with the attorney on that okay okay address that before Council okay is there any other questions we have here in the planning design Mr chairs okay your first Mr Angela you have a question about the uh there's a list of setbacks on the left side of this page I got cut off in the next page slide it says 75 feet for high priority wetlands what's the what is that is that it looks like they used that when they set the setback line here on the North End and then you adjusted it to 50 feet the ordinance your it's your priority wetlands so I don't know if there was confusion so yeah so when when that line moves that way I think they want needs a hundred feet setback they can move it a little farther away so it looks like we get more space on the North End there's some High Ground there on the North End and he's 10. so if the variance is supposed to be a minimal the minimal requirement to make it possible okay seems like we can move it back some number of feet the uh so is that the dashed line the grading line limit the grading limits right now right so they can't move past the grading limits these are setback and Grading limits well the only side we're concerned about is the lake side which is 75 feet but they're just showing grading limits as a reference for okay so so the house could move to the Northeast and won't need as much of a variance yeah potentially could yes would you like to comment on that Mr pogren at all or the reasoning for kind of a placement yeah it um there are two issues with moving farther back one is the steepness at which that Hill drops off towards the east which would require putting if we moved any further to the east putting the footings on of the home on fill soil which I understand is not ideal um the other involves the setback from that Wetland which from the north Wetland which is that 50 or 75 it's actually a 50-foot requirement it is so it does give you a little more room to slide like North if we had to okay um I realized yeah you need some space for like pulling in the right angle to the garage and such um but yeah I mean under state law um commissioner happel is correct we really should be aiming for the minimal variants [Music] um now we do have to you know kind of keep that separation from the the septic areas to but so right now the slab like the slab of the garage is kind of on the top of the existing Hill and if you moved it that's what kind of what your concern was or eat if you moved it further east I do think you have a little space like even another 10 feet um you'll you will well you not use be bringing in some fill or are you just using um soils that are there to re-grade per excavator we will not need to bring any with the current plant Bill okay okay commission thoughts on that Mr chair yes sir um so if the only way to push that further to the Northeast would be to bring in Phil like to add on onto this it looks like it's pretty steep if that's if I'm reading those yeah it's pretty steep there so moving that any further would require fill which is a that's another added expense is it not correct yeah it drops 10 12. almost 14 feet from so yeah so the top so this is placed as far back as it can based off the natural Knoll yeah exactly the null that's there okay Mr chair yes commissioner Hitler I guess I guess the referring to these state law the expense can't be one of the conditions granting a variance well so if we look at the variance criteria the first one that the variance is consistent with the comprehensive plan that's not an issue relative to land use um the variances in harmony with the intent of the zoning ordinance that is not a problem it's you know it's similar to other homes in the area the plight of the landowner is due to circumstances unique to the property not created by the landowner so this parcel as far as the physical configuration of the parcel of the existing wetlands in proximity to the lake are you know existing um the variance is not exclusively economic considerations and I don't believe that to be true I mean there are always economics involved one way or another but I don't believe that him locating it at 100 feet or 110 feet is making a difference you know money-wise he's still building the same house in other words the variants will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood and all of that will not occur so then the only real question is variance is the minimum action required to eliminate the difficulty um but you know there's also some reasonableness that comes into play in terms of using a parcel and just eliminating the Practical difficulty so it's really up to the commission like I said we have set precedent in the past issuing one of the previous variants for a residence at 100 feet mayor you had you had a comment uh it was covered okay it was covered I do what was the variance we issued you said on pickerel Lake yeah um off of Old biking the previous commissioner and he had a similar situation with Wetlands that kind of squeezed him between in you know that in the shoreline Mr chair yes commissioner Hip Hop yeah so I can see the uh difficulty was setting it on a on a fill area so it would require compaction so you could probably move a little bit back but I'm not sure how many feet that would be the minimum requirement this is the DNR typically respond if there's do you have an issue yeah if they had a real concern so if they haven't respond to that might indicate they don't have an issue with this plan but I would say that's true based on my past experience I have a question Mr chair for the applicant what is your intent with the driveway that continues around the north side um to abandon it to turn it perhaps into a walking path but it's not going to still be a driveway okay and you know isn't there a there's a detached garage and then a shed back there are you going to keep the shed back there or just take all of it down everything currently within the lake step back is going to get demolished okay So currently they have one two three four or five buildings and so if he takes away three and then on this side on the east side what was your intent again those that bigger one yeah yeah okay is that connected or there's a little one and a big one there's yeah there's a um it's an old garage that my dad moved in and it kind of just set behind the existing shed it's not in good shape okay so just removing that one shed that's out or keeping the one shed that's outside of the required setback are there any more questions that we have here in the planning zoning me I've got a question of how many houses have we built in this Bear Lake area in the past probably 15 years not in the last 11 or 12 since I've been here so I don't think it's changed in the last because at one point their leg flowed to the South now it flows to the north and the DNR was really adamant about anybody building anything until that was reversed how did it get reversed well it was a guy that owned a pretty large backhoe and he paid to water to run north and they said it's supposed to run south but he says I wanted it to run north and so that that's what happened it's when you don't remember Lawrence Krieger but he usually landfill and he turned the water around and he said absolutely you're not building one more house until that water is turned around but it's something that should be considered I mean maybe they've decided that wasn't worth the paper was wrote on I don't know but it was a big thing at that time he had plans for different areas he wanted to put some Lots in because he owned quite a bit of property yeah yeah I don't know who ended up with that because of the tax you know things and all that he was involved but well I can certainly make one last-ditch effort to contact them um well I would think the DNR would say something on that but here again you just never know about them people and you're dealing with them because they're a little bit different bunch of dudes well and you know I guess they get a lot of requests too and I do think they focus on the only thing I ever seen they were really good at was buying rocks buying rocks yeah it had a piece of property up in Kennebec County and they wanted to put a dam in and they wanted to buy all the Rocks I had let's chat yes I do think that that's a reasonable thing the the comment that the DNR hasn't said anything to presume that they don't have any interest we have had too many instances where the DNR comes out after the fact and then takes an interest and it becomes a burden to the property owner it really would be you know I remember that situation with the water flow um you know it should be speak now or forever hold your peace they shouldn't be able to come back later after we granted something to come back and say oops we missed this for them to not respond to three requests disappointing I would like to make sure that we've done everything we can so there isn't a question afterwards because we've been doing it with other property owners and they show up and say this has to change or you can't do what you planned on doing so the other the other comment question on the driveway who'd have another property in the Northwest part of the city that had him illegal easement over that without anything in writing and exactly what happened is the new owner came in and decided the people on the further back couldn't use that driveway anymore so they blocked it off so the people at home and they had legal rights to go over the driveway because they've been doing it decades but the new owners decided they're going to block it off and then you end up in court so I do commend you to say get it right in before you committed too much because we've had the experience here in town where not that I think the gastric sins are going anywhere soon or would likely to sell somebody to cut you off but he got into writing it's much better I am not familiar yourself with where Bear Lake follows in with to its entirety if you know what I mean when when it rains but now then had some strange waterways because right where we're sitting here there's three different grains right here so you won't be safe rather than sorry because it's poor business to invest in poor things you know what I mean about that I didn't ask anybody in the public if they had anything to say out here about this request I've got one mother question this chair yes go ahead mayor um so Liz we talked about you know if there's a recommendation to go forward here tonight with whatever limitations are open you were talking about grading as soon as possible any concern about grading before the council approves well yeah I mean that is a concern if the recommendation is to change the location of the home certainly but his situation is that the Builder was couldn't get the full set of plans in to get the building permit in a timely fashion so he was just wanting to try to get the grading done this fall so those plans aren't in yet not full set required for the building permit which is why he chose to go forward with the separate grading permit so as long as he were to maintain the same elevation though the same Rose floor yeah I wouldn't be that big of a deal um let's give a chance the public again as anybody in the public could want to make any comments having to do with this CNN let me just continue we got any more questions here in the planning and zoning Mr chair yes mayor so to the commission as to Mr hopple's Question here on the setback if you're going to make recommendation we we would need to know from a council standpoint what you're recommending on the setback we don't really know whether it's 10 feet or 20 feet more than what that would be but if you're going to recommend that it be a little more than it is now what would that be so that's that can be determined whether that's feasible or not before it gets to the council in a two weeks okay well this is once we close the public hearing we could cover this right okay I just want to at least bring it up volunteers so there's anybody in public wants to okay the property owner wants to speak to it again okay yes once you do that and the commission needs to recommend are there any more questions at this time about this variance CNN will close the public hearing now we'll act upon it the biggest thing is this a setback recommendation that the commissioner hippola brought up your recommendation in the commissioner is to change what they what they've already proposed you know I recommend that it's investigated where the or how much it could be moved with that reason to the north and easterly direction in order to make the variance a minimal variants who would make this determination we sort of have to do it to give it to the city council yeah well we have this drawing here but I don't know if this is a good enough to make it judgment on the number of feet Mr chair yes without bringing an extra fill it appears that that I mean that's got to be awfully close we're talking maybe a couple of feet um just to use that existing Hill um yeah that existing concept so whether it's 101 or 102 or 105 um is there a way for us to Simply stayed as far back as possible minimum of a hundred and feet 100 feet or if we're going to make a determination we need to just give an exact measurement but my recommendation would be to leave it at 100 feet knowing that the the previous house was at less than that and they're extending it now granted just seven feet but that to me looks awfully well close based off the information that we have is that the census of the whole Commission I'm okay with that I wonder how many of you people actually took a physical look at that well I didn't drive back in there but I've looked at it from the satellite view yeah but you don't you don't see the well things look different sometimes when you're walking oh no question but that's one thing we're a little weak on it's not just on this project but now and then we could spend a little bit more time physically looking because you get a whole different opinion if you physically see it we need to work on that well my opinion is I looked at it they get what he wants in their it's not going to be easy and to me it looks like it's awful low and I'm concerned about the water level we'll see if there is quite a bit of real estate not just right there but in that whole area because look at that big patch over there that Marxist at farming and if you recall that developer from dating over there he had this idea he was going to put all of those houses on there and he was going to put gopher piles for each house and you've got to raise it up I think believe about what minimum you know for each house and it's got to be at least an acre and you don't see no houses there yet and that's probably 20 years ago yeah I remember that yeah but I mean that's something that I keep in the back of your mind of you know on that too so and I don't mean to be Grinch on it but we've got to be work smarter not harder on this because when I look at that are you planning on putting a mile in there or something because that does look pretty low in there sorry you're talking about just the general Hillside where the house is going yes like like down the road here it ways they made a mound down here and they set the house on top of it so the water level with the lake the high water level is 931-2 natural elevation of the hill where we're going to build 944. so we shouldn't have any issues getting the bottom of our basement three feet above that 931.2 which if I'm not mistaken is what's required by organs is that correct that's correct yeah he's not bringing in Phil to create the Lois folaris he's just filling in on the downhill side which is kind of the north end of that house there because you are building on the highest part of that lot right and then I believe there is a little bit at the far northern part of the lot but it's just a stitch higher so you've got the Wetland but yes that's correct right yeah that's the highest buildable right so what are we going to do about this uh what we're talking about the setback recommendation uh the overall do we think we should leave it the way it is or or probably clear cut if you go right down the line on that what if you've got it at that hundred feet then forget it probably rather because if you get into the city council they're going to sit there humming hard because I can almost bet they probably ain't going to be too many of them it's going to look at that darn thing that's that's what I'm complaining about that we don't spend enough time there'll be two of them uh I think there'll be two of them yeah sure yeah well okay yeah we did we are making a recommendation more than here remove the house no I believe Harold's recommended no no I'm removing the existing structures he's demolishing all all three of these look at those screens all three of these on the West Side okay should we put down should we have that in it not only remove the house the other buildings no we don't have to recall the house is only what we can require to be removed okay really because the sheds are grandfathered in so it's his choice to remove the others I think it's very nice that he is um doing that or suggesting that he's going to do that so if we if we do ask him to relocate the home then he has to have all the plans redone and resubmitted so it's you know that may or could delay his decision in in November also I mean that's part of the process if the commission feels strongly about it then so be it I'm just indicating that it seems in in a discussion here the majority of think are thinking just remove or just leave the way it is what's been presented to us on the right saying that Mr Jerry yes commissioner haplan are you I mean how are you with approving it with the existing growing and location well it's if we have a precedent here that 100 feet is okay it's probably fine but hey just not sure if the council would prefer that it was recommended at the minimum variance instead of the same as another one it is it is better than the existing home which is at 93 I think [Applause] so the general concerns is that what we're looking at here is uh yeah we're good about removing the setback at this time because it's kind of it ends up making is very complicated it's kind of it's going to be a lot more involved in it and the plans that they're now it will have to be completely changed right you have to determine yeah what's reasonable given the situation so there's practical difficulties here namely slopes Lakeshore wetlands you know the access Drive configuration you know is moving it back 10 or 20 feet going to improve or change you know the situation now if we have a strong feeling you know from the DNR I think that would be different though so far I don't so okay uh this point we have the recommendations made here by our planner and we've got one added is to remove the home and uh at this time it looks like the consensus is that these are set back where it's at we never know what the DNR is going to do yes I make a motion that we approve it with the addition of you know the condition that the home be removed okay commission bias as it's strong made the motion somebody want to Second it a second commissioner Carlson segment any discussion Mr chair yes um what commissioner B [Music] the planner contacting the DNR contacting the City attorney relative to the easement um yeah and obtaining a demolition permit for the removal removal of any buildings um yeah that's fine I mean do we want to have a timeline for the DNR to respond versus an open-ended ignore you know I would say before the council meeting yeah okay which is fair I mean two weeks yeah two additional weeks right yep I'm okay with that commissioner Carlson yeah okay yeah any Pleasures yes that's one thing then on the uh when you talk to DNR you're going to bring up Harold's question on the water flow yes I'll bring that up to see what their knowledge is of history on it um yeah and I may call the or contact the local County Soil and Water also okay any further discussion CNN will call for a vote all in favor say aye aye opposed motion carriage so the next step is the city council thank you yes yes going to bring up it doesn't affect us at this point but the one other time we had it we allowed up to 100 foot setback little variance there got to be careful when you use those as precedent to say we don't know what all the other conditions were on that property they absolutely couldn't move it any further so so be careful when you're saying well we did it one other time because every time you set precedence it gets looser down the road so residents who want to make sure you're matching it exactly if you're using that we have had one other situation where Hunters are packed in the lake up from the water point but uh we didn't bring in the other factors to that just just remember that when you're using comparables absolutely okay what we're going to do now is they open the set second public hearing because sit considering the men intern to use permit requested that five six zero six word Valley Road and number 14 days Thursday days 25 days 44 days zero zero zero zero one which requires compliance with cell tower regulations update it sends itself power was installed and fencing and Landscaping and screening of the ground equipment area is section 11 days eight days nine in Melbourne city code and so this table will turn over to our planner thank you Mr chair so we have a request by Dish Network to collate co-locate some equipment on the existing cell tower at this address um the city code has changed since the tower was installed and now requires screening and Landscaping of the ground equipment so that is what triggered the amended conditional use permit and the applicants have not submitted the required plans showing landscaping and screening so my recommendation tonight is to continue this public hearing to November if they don't get plans and at that time we may end up denying it unless unless they allow us to extend our review period indefinitely so so there's a an existing ground building and the cell tower um they have an easement and oh I have it on the next slide here they have an access movement um within this 20 by 50 foot uh use area the lease agreement states that users May exercise another 20 by 50 foot leased area if needed in the future they haven't done that um this is kind of hard to see but this white oops yeah this white rectangle is kind of a bird's eye view of the building and they're proposing running the electric line outside of the current least area and then if you go if we look at the plan of the least area the large building that exists obviously the tower here and then they're adding this equipment inside the least area which is fine but the power is running outside the least area plus how are they going to screen and Landscape this when they have barely a few feet to get around here um I suggested that they exercise the full East area and just fence it all and be done with it but they didn't like that idea um they have not submitted a landscaping plan or a fencing plan and I've been working with them since March they had one application the first that I asked them to withdraw because they didn't meet the requirements I had two previous incomplete notices and anyway so it hasn't been easy so my recommendation is to continue this public Hearing in November if we don't get the required plans or an extension for the review period then we will unnecessitate that the city denies and because things weren't done properly this is why we have to well wait for information well right in support of the staff though there was some confusion because of the first application that they withdrew and then they reapplied sent it to the improper email even though they had been working with me so yeah there was some Shenanigans I guess I'll call them um so we we were forced to because of the 60-day review period we were forced to put it on our agenda okay so there's really not anything we do but to continue this meeting correct and so uh my life I'd like to I'd like to make a motion that we continue this meeting to the uh oh yeah oh yeah um I live less than half a foot away from this Tower oh okay so I'm on very valuable okay [Music] um um so I literally I look at them when I walk into my field or in my grasslands you're a cross it's the very new Valley I'm in Burberry Valley on the east side oh over there okay correct so if there's a property between our property and the corner that comes right by the uh okay I'm on the east side of Portland oh okay so um from what I understood they didn't submit a full plan this is kind of what they wanted to do was put things on the inside of the building nothing out of the tower itself no there are some additional antennas going on the tower blades tight like the one that's out here but they're very yeah they're they're pretty inconspicuous yeah has there ever been no I this Tower is white and a lot of cars I see in rural areas like this especially I mean that's very real that's right [Music] as a requirement when maintenance comes around but that's probably for the original thumbs up that was one of the concerns I had there there's not going to be satellite dishes sticking out all over on this or microwave no there's nothing that will extend outward it will be similar to this type of a blade like you have on the tunnel right outside the building here similar similar to that it's not going to go out any further than the current um I don't have it off hand but I think it's pretty close to our Max which is 200 or just under okay well 200 feet would require uh going higher right to require that I mean I know that's one thing when you have the cool one away Tower that's 1400 and some feet high that requires them but I think FAA if I'm not station before you have to put a light on and this one does not neither does the one out here so I think they're just under uh screening you know the building is fairly inconspicuous but it would mean screening I would be things but that's already covered in your new ordinances but the biggest thing I had is I wanted to know you know what type of antennas were doing Beyond or if it's full of satellite dishes or in almost the new ones okay and then of course if there was any ordinances for potential that could be driven for painting them because they already have the building has to blend in with Alaska of Tolerance area could as well I've been on the east coast in some instances out there they actually make them up yes yeah and it actually doesn't do too bad I mean the East Coast it was hard to make look good in any situation but I think it's something to consider I don't think equipped with these but could have a plan that's you know and you think in November it may come again up before we knew it up if it's not November it'll be pushed all the way to January because we don't usually have a December notification if they do submit a plan or um no when we continue you will not get another notification so please just watch the website see if they're on the agenda okay if you want to leave me your email I'd be glad to share the plans with you so you can look at them but I mean just write it down on something yes uh just looking at the plans I mean it's really small so I had to use my little magnifier here but it it's 197 feet for the existing monopole um it says yeah there's like there's a comment about it a mounting pipe going to 202 um I don't know if that's added or or whatever but the existing monopole says 197 feet yeah but you know that's a nice quiet little value yeah you know what I mean it's uh but anyway that's it for my email and okay I appreciate it I'll make a note on the height thing and painting screening thank you very much so actually what will happen this meeting will be continued because we don't have enough information yeah I was going to say I would never as a business submit something to a certain cultural life plan I mean how does that happen on your Nationwide company something else on there but it's because we're relevant all right thank you would you like to make comment ma'am give me your name and address please thank you 83 Victoria Valley Road so my property is right across from where the satellite tower is and my biggest concern is first of all like what kind of Machinery are they going to have to deliver through it will it interrupt my usage of my road during this period of time may I answer yes I highly doubt that that would affect you any blockage of the road okay they have space to pull trucks even if it were a large truck delivering equipment like a semi there's space to pull in off of Verdi Valley happy um let you guys know like how long of a process this is going to take no once we approve it we have very little say kind of when it happens so and I yeah I guess that's we could inquire if we ever get what we need here and get them in the room we could inquire about their timeline and I was just kind of wondering like with this upgrade that they're doing the amount of time that they will have to come and maintain it because I've been right across from it and it's very loud when they do do any kind of Maintenance work on it and you know we choose now then because we prefer it to be quiet we live out there for a reason and it's very loud when they do have to maintain so that's just how often do they maintain it now at least once a year okay and I don't know if it's just electrical work that they're doing if that you know but we're kind of talking about that they're going to do is it nothing to um they just they're adding an antenna way up high and then some of the smaller buildings on the ground so that's just kind of what my concern is the open noise levels okay what kind of sound what does it sound like when they're maintaining I mean is it it's like constant like if you have roof being redone Anatomy that but you know because of where we are what the noise does carry so you can hear the conversation from my house from it oh just because the noise just carries the natural Amphitheater there yeah exactly yeah right so more like a pounding it's nice annoying family [Laughter] [Music] well it probably start with you because it sounds like they're in your backyard or your front yard exactly okay thank you thank you again this what we're going to do is continue this meeting to a a date down the road a little bit November 26th because a lack of information and so I'll continue my motions thank you have a good night go ahead do you see them I'm sorry I was telling you well thank you okay I make a motion to continue this to November 22nd 2022 meeting before you get a second on that can I just bring up a couple of things because once you continue and I won't be talking about it anymore won't be what we won't be talking about it until the next meeting as you continued at our we're done here yes so before you get a second I'd like to bring up a couple of things here take a look at the paperwork we've got this application came in March of this year City results respond within 15 days if there was any inconvenience the signature the property owner is in one case it's well there it's not the property number it's the attorney in fact for a global signal um [Applause] if you look at the original cup back in 2000 and there were three conditions all ordinances I'm assuming they mean city ordinances but this is this is why we want better findings in fact we do things to be very specific just as all ordinance requirements are adhered to any other business conduction is property other than what's stated at that time requires the reopening of the conditional use permit and a condition use permit may be revocable there's showing the non-compliance of any conditions after noticing hearing and then back in 2002 it came up because they did add to it conditions are they're going to add an antenna to the existing Tower they're going to add additional equipment they have to comply with Section 601 of the burns Township zoning ordinances any other businesses other than what state it must require opening and conditioned use permit and we both if there's any non-compliance so I you make sure that you're taking those things into consideration you've got somebody who doesn't want to expand into a leased area wants to go outside the lease agreement doesn't bring in the required information you can continue hearing you could just say we choose not to approve but you know they need to know that you have the authority to not recommend this to counsel they don't bring their stuff together in and you can revoke it if there's non-compliance and anything that they're doing differently I don't know what they've added since 2002. to this site but I'm going to guess a few things have been added if they did that they they were supposed to open up another cup Mr chair yes no that changed Mr Mayor so it used to be that they had every time they added or change the equipment they had to come back and then there's a state law now it says you know with the co-locating so I believe we amended our ordinance before just before I started Maybe and so if they're just you know doing antennas and the basic equipment they don't always have to come back but we should check that though so we know because if you're believing we change that because I know when they added the generator out here they had to come back and this one they had to come back and the generator approved and we had to prove the site plan and where they were coming in and everything was within the at least area do you remember when that was for this no it's just a year and a half ago yeah it's gonna be everything last two years oh okay they were adding it they were adding a carrier and they were bringing in the emergency generator even something different though didn't they expand the area or something a little bit no they were going to do it outside the fenced area oh and and we said looks like there's space inside there so they did it inside that's what it was because they wanted to expand the area we we identified that there was plenty of room within that to put the generators um but Henry's in response to Mr Mayor comments yeah so they actually the application that was withdrawn was the one that they resubmitted without yeah without anything that I asked for the property owner's signature and you know new date and everything when they didn't so that they're very difficult to work with but he's correct so if you choose not to continue it you could just deny it right now then the process would just start all over again for them to apply then they'd have to reapply yeah that might be a smart thing to do it might be kind of why they put us in a bridge here because of the 60-day rule they we had to do something well one of the options you have is to deny and they start over and then maybe they listened right okay now the question I have I I'll draw my motion but the question I have is do we have to close the meeting and do we have to act upon it so then you would close the public hearing right we've heard comments okay so you would close the public hearing and then make a motion to deny if you want to go that route or you make a motion to continue whatever we'll close close the meeting then and uh I think this is a good idea to diet because we're deny them because they've been they've been dealing with this it hasn't been really a way that people should be dealing I don't know the city but there's there's three parties involved you know you've got the owner of the Tower you've got dish Wireless and you've got this GPD Group which is maybe the contractor I don't know property and the property owner so none of them are here these guys don't get home until you know anyone really it it kind of gets into dressing the power going outside the least area that's between them and the property owner right you're going military yeah we don't really have us well we have a say I suppose but yeah you would vote property owner would say well you got at least more land from us yeah yeah and then I would say that you fenced that whole area in yeah and it does look like they're adding the antennas below the existing ones so that the existing pull it says top elevation 202 it must be under 200 feet if right if they don't have light on it so yeah I know but the plan does say 202. it does I just yeah yeah sure and the rule is 200 feet for a light so yeah um so they're they're either in violation or they are under 200 feet that need picked up but and look yeah I'll I'll re-enter my emotion I'll make a motion that we deny the requests somebody like seconded a second okay second by commissioner biastic it was for the discussion CNN we're born on Davis AI opposed form security could we have uh and contact the two that were here tonight and let them know that was the motion was to recommendations okay you had some things on the agenda for future things you want to discuss or something this time we've got some we've got to keep working towards tweaking our ordinance city called to address certain things and sort of answer questions that I or we have in the um open-ended questions and how we can always make this a better document so for starters I took the Landscaping screening and fencing regulations which currently are placed just under commercial industrial uses and pulled those out into a separate section so that if we choose to well we already have adopted some Landscaping requirements for the rrt district east side of town which we could add in but just even in reading through this section there were questions that I had and some comments on how to make it better so starting in section 11-4-17 we outline General performance standards for commercial industrial uses everything in Black through the current regulations so we get to page two number ten um I made a couple comments regarding or changes regarding exterior materials shall comply with our building materials section of the chapter and then also requiring conformance with our design and Architectural guidelines that we just approved which seems to be a reasonable move if everybody agrees with that and then the residential housing standards hasn't changed at all I just did not insert the whole thing because it's a really long section I just moved over the control scheme of things so then we get into the specific Landscaping screening and fencing requirements and most often we're dealing with outdoor storage or screen fencing residential use which would include like a church or something like that the question on that when I was reading this is before it's um does that include agriculture uh no okay so how does that I mean it says all non-residential uses um uh how is that broken out yeah well it's safe it's this is specifically referring to outdoor storage well what I'm thinking is you've got a farm with tractors and equipment and well we actually just had a discussion about that at the work session so maybe we should kind of bring that up again um we were talking about code enforcement and how um you know a lot of outdoor outdoor storage associated with farming uses but where do you draw the line in other words we've got inoperable vehicles or other items that are not related to the farming operation you know is that okay or is that not okay my thought of matter and the way I've seen other cities handle it is that um you know outside of the items required for the farming operation for instance we would exempt semi-parking and things like that that are required for farming operations whereas we wouldn't normally allow that in a residential area but other than the farming items they would be typically be required to comply with don't residential standards we are all rra you know one big District so a lot of cities have very specific AG districts and you know then other smaller zoning districts were residential right um but yeah this definitely the outdoor storage here so maybe we should say so that's when you say it's commercial industrial and all non-residential uses what would that be other than commercial and Industrial churches um that um economic institutional types you know like if you were to get a school or yeah a school exactly so um well maybe we just maybe we just say institutional semi-public this is public meaning city or county could be are typically example uh uh yeah we could say not not including well agriculture is defined as 20 plus acres um and also requires the agricultural uh designation on the tax roll or you could just leave a commercial industrial period although if you did get a school or something you're certainly going to want to or a church that's very close to a residential use you probably would want screening I've seen some churches that use semi-trailers for storage or a variety of things they store in the backside that you know churches are typically close to residential areas so okay I'll reword that okay and on that section there Mr chair thank you hurt me can I speak yes go ahead on that section here we've got the minimum height of six feet for the fence section one there and something to consider you know we did that with MBI over here not realizing where their fence was at grade when you drive on the road you look right over the fence in the lock the fence is pointless unless you're down in the ditch so there has to be something there that the purpose of this is to to scream the area screening has to be effective to actually do that because it's a great looking fence it's just when you're on Old biking you look right over it into the yards clearly isn't doing anything so I don't know how we think about that in the future I mean we again it's one of those things if you're not looking at the site on the plan it looks great because we weren't looking at the road was already higher than the fence was when it was complete on page five Mr chair here at the top item six um I there is a section I added it says screening higher than six feet shall be provided as may be required by the city council in cases where the item is being screened are higher than six feet or where views into the storage yard from public rights away or adjacent residential uses necessitate added provisions I think that's kind of what you were comparing to we could move we could also copy that up into it's under screening methods now the other thing is that um building we could go up to seven feet in our ordinance too because building code doesn't require a permit until you're seven feet or greater so we could also require all outside storage to be 70. I'm gonna say it's not a bad idea because typically what your screening is taller stuff it's bigger than rain Mr chairs yes commission yeah so yeah that's one very common I had on the um it says to a minimum height of six feet and then it says I'll must be over or all over seven feet require a building permit so it's like only have to be exactly six feet in order to not have a permit it's actually seven so maybe we should change both to seven so I'm fine with minimum height is six feet if uh the conditions allow and then fences over seven feet second sentence change that to seven feet but remember there are some commercial industrial uses that don't have to come through planning commissioning Council for review so we want to have it specified if if a seven foot fence is required right off the bat or not another thing is that we've stole a lot of dirt close to the roads over the years and so you've got some natural what we've created of ourselves that's what we did oh we're the greatest yeah we've took the dirt and put it in the room you know because we got now then it's got swamps all over the place to cross you know and that's where that dirt went and then you come along with the fence and naturally it's going to be lower okay we we're thieves that's what we are most of our developments years ago that's how they they just took the field dirt and threw it up there and do a little blacktop on it and said we got a road that's right well look across from you yeah in Ramsey there's a lot of the roads that they never were created up they just graded the sand what there was and that's it huh because there's no reason you know they got by when there wasn't a lot of traffic and that's why we had to put in Road standards oh yeah but that happens at some of that you know when you put that fence in there if it's way down in there man it's going to take a tall fence with our ditches kind of a Down you know start of the so if you guys a lot of you people have never built a fence but if you build a fence and you've got a lot of up and downs man alive it's a mean job because you tighten the wire up and you can't get her down there because the full of pokes are at the ground so it's not quite as simple as it you know you realize but I had a calendar about it says from finish grade I think it's best way to finish grade of the lot or something like that so not finish screen of the ditch well it's finished grade school so it's I think it should be six feet from the stuff they're trying to screen up from the point of the fence location that would probably be more effective there and the other thing is is there a lot of seven foot fence around we had that's I was looking that up as well to see if that's a common yeah you know Victory isn't it usually here it goes by two right yeah typically itself you could cause a lot of problems requiring a seven and then they have to buy an eight foot fence and now they got to get a variance for that and you know for that we multiply our problems right on some of that because we don't think it's too real carefully well why would the building code say seven then I mean okay because they probably didn't do a good job that's why a building code they're typically not doing offenses like we're seeing in commercial industrial areas so if you're putting a board fence you make whatever you want unless you're buying prefab I mean they're typically six by eight otherwise I'm residential you can put up whatever size but two is a common denominator on most things a bit with slice you'll find us like you go in the sheet metal you'll find a little bit of three foot but 95 of it is probably four foot wide you got this guy that wants a 52 foot piece he's true you know and you can get the rest of them but across you usually double what what it does he was just working on some of that today I needed a big piece of none in the Twin Cities there you go you know so do we want a minimum height of six feet and then we added the other provision allowing the council to make you know allowing direct Foundation to be higher Mr chair yes mayor so the discussion that you were having there about then the the grade being property where the equipment's parked or the ditch location of the fence what was recommended there yeah I like that um so the minimum height as measured from the finish grade of the items being stored or you could say the storage yard you know highest storage I was gonna say the highest point of the storage yard it's a real good idea [Applause] no I suppose if your strategy heart is on the slope which they aren't typically but I mean it could be a gentle slope you might end up with a 12-foot fence on one side or or grading level it out some Burns and trees yeah you'd almost have to supplement of trees in that situation The Colony goes out sometimes and they ready to roll it up if there's a lot of this here they'll make that slope a lot longer so when you got to put your fence back in it don't fit like it did before oh and they actually mostly your landowners that have a farm fence they don't pay you for taking that fence out and putting the fence back in of course because they've got to have more driveway sometimes just to get the road done get to get all the slopes in and they're usually fairly generous with that so so in that same paragraph requiring approval by an Architectural Review Committee we used to have a committee I don't think well we still have them well it may have been yeah on our annual meeting in January we do have a committee appointment which is the extended meeting no it's a council and look I thought you and and the building something from the building in the last 10 10 to 12 years we may be only exercise that once or twice yeah we haven't been called on in the requirements where it's supposed to be we have a good comma um so thoughts on that I mean is that needed is it I don't know that it's really needed for offense in my opinion but especially if well beginning outside of those four items and you probably are getting something unusual because if you're if you've got decorative masonry low maintenance lower maintenance-free vinyl natural Decay resistant or came with trees wood on chain link and vinyl metal slats if it's not one of those four it's probably something creative so you probably would want an architectural review on it well but remember that all outdoor storage of in commercial industrial well all outdoor starting requires an interim use permit so that has to come before you anyway so I mean then you've got some say over that um I mean do you want to add that other step or I guess hmm it's a third thing well I thought because has anybody ever suggested anything other than those four um well other than these new ones we have with the metal you know if you if we like that we should add that to the list which one of those the ones we've had over here Perkins yeah Perkins and MBI yeah and then uh CST did it too is it is that metal not vinyl yeah those are metal panels I would say let me just add that if you get outside of those five probably does require an architectural review yeah probably the metal looks better than the chain link seeing like with the slats yeah yeah I was suggesting that we either remove that or only allow it in the industrial area because it's not that effective no I mean you can see through it anyway yeah it's not really doing it foreign metal panel from chain link with vinyl as you can see sure um now if we say um I think you have to add a designation for the metal whatever that description is description is the prefab meddler yeah pretty finished that's completely different chain link so I think he was suggesting just removing removing and replacing it with metal panels my thought was in between the metal panels on the roadside you know maybe we require an upgraded post of something because it does look nice the way mbis got it you know whether that's Masonry um maybe big wood posts or something I think even metal panels are probably nicer looking than the some of those vinyl fences okay so everybody's on board with that removing the chain link with slats removing it or you're not gonna what are you doing industrial areas you wanna well we could allow it just in industrial areas or we add it to the end and say it's an industrial area only and you know they do come in different opacity so you could do a little research on you know if it's 80 percent 90 percent screen or whatever is do they come in in lighter colors I'm thinking you know we like the city building with the maintenance yard we've got a more of a tan tan building and a lot a lot of these are green or darker slats again something that was more complementary to the building itself we can research that I'm not sure and then the metal that you're adding how is it different than half the finished metal oh well we must we must have come here so the item e should move to the end then yes or they split those two or yeah between f and g okay got it everything should be light brown it's a baby the other night and that's what it was right maybe trailing could be a loud with her approval in commercial Ariana okay now did we skip ahead a little bit late yeah I guess excuse me I had a question about that buffer yard of 100 feet and whether that's feasible or City Center we do we will have some situations where um commercial about the residential uses foreign yeah that seems like it would it would invite a lot of variance requests um really necessary to have such a thing between commercial and Industrial you have a different one for residential I was just saying if you have a commercial property or you have an industrial property that abuts the residential and that commercial or residential whichever it is a commercial or industrial has to have that buffer yard between the residential the idea is if you're having a okay either of those next residential are trying to do some type of buffer or something kind of like the woman tonight that was indicating when they're working on that something across the road from where it's it's like they're working in a front yard you only have some type of buffer site-wise and noise-wise because you're operating commercial property that we've got a few iups in my neighborhood that when the big trucks come to double trash and do different things there's like you're grateful to have that buffer because there's a lot of noise associated with it yeah I misread that I thought it said between commercial and Industrial also yeah it's it's either it's only residential to either either or in residential yeah I think that's a good idea to keep wherever possible I'm trying to think of any commercials I mean there's got to be a commercial site that would be less than that but maybe that's okay to require a variants I don't know no I don't know if you want to do a variance but you could do a foreign storage or you could require the I mean that basically would encompass the perimeter of the commercial areas there right the blue and the red and you know that that's what we're talking about yeah yeah there's a lot that backs up to that resume residential now I've long felt it was a little excessive um but like let's say a staggered row of spruce trees or large pine trees that get 25 to 30 feet across I mean you're still looking at a minimum of 50 feet but um unless you add a clause that says you know found review by an architectural committee or city council it may be reduced um you know through submission of a detailed screening plan approval you know something like that but so someone built the mound with trees on it significantly reduce the impact well right I mean you can get the height but sometimes it is a noise Factor but I don't think the difference between 50 feet and 100 feet is really you know gonna make effect a difference relative to noise unless it's just a solid solid screen but our buffer descriptions or definition allows open space as a screen in other words over a wetland or a storm water pond so you know noise would echo through that versus you're going to require all the sandhill cranes to have permits too it's pretty amazing they can make those calls [Music] yeah I just think 100 feet is going to eat up valuable commercial property because them sandhill cranes will come right in and come right up to your barn and walk right in with you 've got no respect for nothing you can't stop eating them we got a whip after him right all the time well that's one of the reasons why you live here Harold because well if you're talking about noise during anything any noise here this is terrible people might appreciate that noise more than the uh commercial or industrial noise would y'all about your neighbor making a little bit of noise but they don't say nothing about them sand deals until the city folks that comes out their pterodactyls maybe you're depressed never could have a reduced number for uh if there's a closed type of a buffer okay Mound or a hill instead of open space yeah maybe you say reduced 50 feet with the you know triple row of landscaping or I don't know put something in so they don't have to come in for a variance [Music] right yeah okay well maybe there's I mean maybe there's a way to scale that with the size of the property you know if it's a 50 acre property 100 feet around the perimeter for whatever they're operating is reasonable yeah it's a two acre lot to lose 100 feet on two sides exactly would be a problem should we put that one on hold for a second or should you just take a look and see what you do to modify it because I do think lot's size makes a big difference and truly I mean you take a look that the lots that have that are all yeah you're looking at you know in the downtown area it's not up against presidential except for on the west end of the Industrial Area there you could have some homes in there where the farm is in the South End of the commercial area there we talked about creating some kind of natural transition there anyway yeah like a linear park or Trail yeah so if yeah if the city did that I think it'd be fine on the 40 acre pieces but the park that's the only half a section deep you know it's only 600 no 2600 maybe you could add that part counts as a buffer zone is that included with the natural Wetlands Woods Park [Applause] okay that's enough to go on talk about materials [Music] I had a question about yeah home extended businesses or any residential subdivision requirements that's probably where I would add in the rrt requirements because we did have a tree planting requirements along the right of way uh my thought was do we need some sort of standardized screening for home extended business or are we just go Case by case like we have because the uses vary so much sort of differs based on what you're screening what's your screening and uh where you're screaming it's a little harder to standardize that you know but at each Industrial interim use permit does require review so and part of that is specifically screening so right okay you can have some general criteria that the intent of screening is and then specify it when they come in for the iup yeah that's a good way to do it this area you're not going to specify aluminum for for all of that I I'd say aluminum Evergreens so they don't die there's a girl doesn't aluminum right now across your minimum charge is 200 bucks for anodizing I just you know everybody's thrown out there aluminum Christmas trees get thousands of dollars in their goddamn fence we hadn't wake up no I don't I don't think you'd ever want to to be using aluminum in residential I just was down to the plate of uh yesterday holy cow the prices are just wild earned fruitcakes on that there ain't no reason some of that stuff is tripled because you know we can go over the recycling center take all alone in Kansas glue them together itself is cheap but it's the anodizing see the three of your problems it's really high no and I don't think you know I don't think we'd ever require that you know somebody had a metal fence that they wanted and they thought it was worth the expense but I don't think we'd ever require any well I certainly wouldn't want to pay for it to darn thing because you could burn up a whole lot of cash and maybe Ramsey and be Fuller than it is I see this stuff every day with the prices of that stuff Parts done in wherever and we're making assembly easier industrial heaters many medical applications that's where you see the prices but medical scene doesn't get affected because they got plenty of cash right now [Music] landscape plan required that's nothing new yourself and I had a mess there yes maybe every decision we make is that a dollar figure of all of this because if we don't move right back to where it was score would the people will come with you in order to get all this extra expense we'll be sitting here with it um methods materials shall be planted with side seated or native vegetation wildflowers or Prairie what praying grasses like the one down on five down here at 181st [Laughter] he's got a neat yard there isn't he there's a yard that's kind of been mowed for like 10 years well actually it was being modal last year by somebody I know he worked for well he used to be but he went he was working for Home Depot well is that right and so he bought a brush hog restaurant from Home Depot but he's not using it so I can't afford to guess we're gonna have another conversation since the weed inspector was there to visit him already so oh there's a lot of thistles we have a good cop [Music] yeah there's about five or six kinds of thistle but there's only one or two that are considered noxious oh they're they're abundant this year though you're still supposed to control okay maybe Prairie wildflowers and grasses huh yeah okay let me stop the stepdaughter to my pasture and just cut them right now okay yeah the sharp edge and I'm gonna say you must have sharp edge the ground was just like cement right now okay two more sections and then we're done for the night um maintenance of landscaping uh the ordinance was lacking somewhat we want to be sure that what we're asking people to put in is kept up or it does us no good any thoughts there did anybody have any notes [Applause] you've got purpose to establish minimum standards for lawn and yard maintenance for and then I was trying to incorporate sort of our rural nature and talking about a variety of landscapes um we've long struggled with our eight inch our ordinance currently contains an eight inch mowing height but you know how do you enforce that when there's so many areas that are left natural some people mow along the roads others don't you know there's really no continuity so it is hard probably should be some kind of a minimum around at least where they're main buildings are like the house and the garage because that's a good example down there that what it should not look like yeah true maybe within so many feet of the buildings or something yeah it wouldn't have to be nothing real tight but at least because if they get that stuff mowed away and we do get a fire at least you got a prayer you got to think about that too how far are you thinking well it should be probably minimum of 50 75 feet from the buildings you know I'd say you know from use your your house as your point and you know get something kind of yeah and 50 feet makes sense yeah because I have seen a couple pretty darn good fires in now then where it was we had a lady that went out and picked up some hay bales with her skid loader and she caught the whole pile on fire who was 11 12 hour ordeal because the fire department we had at that point was the City of Anoka and they spread it rather than put it out how did that happen well I probably take the water and they would spray it if there would be this Orchard Grass Grows in a lot Orchard Grass Grows just pretty much wild around here and and the Flames are fired me on there and they hit with that water hose is about five males more and we lit up just like that well you couldn't get it out for nothing so you're going to tell them to get their butt out of there and we just take the water hose from right off the pulp and and then so you didn't have a lot of pressure on it then you can put them out but it was I think like eighteen thousand dollars where the hay burned up used to be the Anoka they tell you they could save a lot of Foundations out in our area that's all they could save it took a long time for Nokia to get out here oh you bet there was it was they were very slow and looked at him now they made the newspaper that Anoka don't want to fix their roads they want to fix the golf course it was in the star tribute it tells you where they're at I would play golf so number four are you still thinking number three well yeah what about this eight inch height because so it's an eight inch height within 50 feet of a structure yeah is it just you want to say accessory buildings too because does it make sense for agricultural after growing hay by their building they yeah the Olympics I want to cut it might be higher than eight inches well I mean I don't know how close right yeah specifically calling out Turf crafts okay yeah so I could say agricultural use signal excluded well but if you if you're there you know maybe you have like a 12 inch requirement all around the building well you're hating your hay is going to be taller than that yeah what he's going to be taller than that though oh for sure no I don't mean egg I think egg should be well especially if it's just an egg building so maybe but there are people that are hanging on residential lots if you've got a five acre lot you can still get a fair amount of hail but um yeah but then it's not turf grass right so if you're calling out turf grass you know if someone wants to do turf or uh hay right up to their outbuildings okay well I don't think we need the distance requirement then if it's yeah if it's just turf grass at eight inches period because you can easily tell what a capacity or a Bluegrass looks like you know very well right you could say turf turf grass lines to be maintained to a height not to exceed eight inches um within 50 feet of any structure and that way you know if you have turf grass that's more of a prairie you don't have to worry about it if it's not around structures and if it's a crop it can grow right up to the building I guess grass that I hear about anybody dealt with that oh how does it grow I think it only gets like just black boots what like goats goats yeah do you see where the right across from the state capitol this weekend they moved the goats and the llamas in and they cleaned her up something to start to move yeah read your paper that hard goats good times I know I didn't it didn't say whose goats they were but they you know boy they eat everything must break every trees Burgers they don't stay on the fence very well though you know in a good fence well you gotta maybe put a little charge in it it changes their mind so yeah on the floor grasses and wildflowers not know what they don't want to mow you know if you put in native grass wildflowers is no longer turf grass so you probably shouldn't be able to grow them right against the house though it could be a fire hazard about 95 of the people take care of their grass pretty good yeah you're always going to get a certain amount of that I mean you got to expect it you know well right that's yeah because there might be some way that gets up in the ears gets old and can't do it or something and he's got well maybe one of his relatives doing it and sometimes they forget to show up what would yeah you got to give a little rope there to hang them on so we've never okay so we don't want to leave far at all right no okay it's a Boulevard we've gone unregulated I mean the guys go out in the mall I don't know what you know their goals are when they're out rolling ditches and stuff so they hit them all that you know for people that don't the county is County does theirs yeah on the main roads yeah and and we do at least once a summer of how often we hit every road but we're doing her ditch mowing so it's nice when people go out there quite a few of my loads don't meet their standards for a more to travel too much too much Bank you know they can't get down in their nieces [Applause] is there a ditch mowing plan there's a person hired that did Mo ditches also I don't know if there's a plan per se I have to ask our administrator I I did run up write a note to myself to check on what it is I know we do do it but I don't know if we do all the ditches or what the plan is the the question is you know it's really the visibility and you'll see after an accident the county gets really religious about Pitch Mowing and tree clearing especially if there's a fatality I remember a couple years ago down on 181st and Nolan Boulevard in the next couple of weeks they were cutting back everything in the right-of-way um the question is the reason we we do it for as a city is there the visibility because you're sitting in a car and if the weeds get so high you can't see cars coming from your left okay T-boned and so it really is a liability that's why the city does it in that the right-of-way portion and we encourage people to do it and I I mow along the ditch in this last year I decided to well half as deep as I do I I go back as far as the county typically does and they came through this fall and went way off the road and cut the stuff I didn't cut this year everybody else they just went with their mower right along the shoulder of the road but then you decided to go in way down into the ditches here and then come back out so I don't know what their standards are you know from a visibility standpoint you got to make sure that when people are coming out onto a road they can they can see but I don't know that we've ever actually required residents to mow out to them gravels as a Blacktop when it comes to fighting over that the homeowner to you she will fight for every tree he's got and the city doesn't have any savings and he can't go in there wholesale and cut them trees and that's it's a real you know they've always had a problem with getting after the trees because it was quite like Clifton Road down there and come around that Circle you can't see around the corners period and the trees are always hanging over that Joe don't like to get more than two feet off the ground with his chainsaw so well I know what they were doing because I would watch them before they kicked all the trees down 189th they would just tip the mower up and they would take the mower along the trees in the right-of-way yeah but it doesn't get it as good as it could and that hundred or Clifton Road in that that should be cut because it's more or less Lover's Lane is what that is yeah that's been missed but the other the other one is where the trees hang over the stop signs yes that's a bad deal too and another one that we have bad is when we build the school or anything down the road in Ramsey they got right hand turn Lanes what have we got 185th nothing and you can't see nobody coming around that corner coming from the south because they're doing 75 miles an hour and if you don't make that turn quick enough you're screwed we need right-hand turn Lanes along there I don't know why they quit them when they came out here well it's it if you read that article to start your viewing you'll see why that is because we got a our County Commissioners and stuff are our Dukes of Hazard that's just what the article wrote you've got to read that now since Saturday starts review pretty well hit where where it should a bunch of cheeseburgers because we'd have a decent internet out here if we had a decent County board but we don't think we've worried about it is boat and it's cabin up north so that's where it is so for some for number five do we want to say the boulevard portion of the public right away shall be maintained to provide adequate visibility does that cover us that's a pretty pretty good statement really I mean because it doesn't burden people too much but it hits the reason why you want to maintain it because it is very of oncoming traffic I mean that's yeah because when you come out on a road and you don't see that sucker you know you only got one chance um it's pretty darn fast laughs so most cities yeah would require planted areas right to mow up to the curb we don't have curbs obviously but I mean up to the travel portion but um yeah I I like that statement so if you do have a problem property you could still send a letter and say please Molly right you know one of the things you'll find if you put that in there people living on gravel roads after winter time when they go out to mow to the edge of the road it's a lot of gravel in that ditch yeah yeah wow that's because they let the God damn Wing drag along to the low all the time um it's in the spring Every Spring we lived there about 40 years and a whole lot of gravel on that ditch ain't supposed to be with that Wing out there that way it's just just grade the road don't be grading the dog down the bank or the ditch because most of the time we're late plowing when you wouldn't drive any place you want to go and the plowing is better than it isn't known I don't care what it is all winter long it's pathetic because they're late getting around never can be on time if I can wash my car or my pickup maybe have it all cleaned up and you go out in the goddamn Road and it's all sloppy and then I gotta go do it again they get out of bed and get going like everybody else does get up at three o'clock or two o'clock and get it done like Ramsay does well then we wouldn't have all that on the road I will say our our guys do get out typically at midnight and uh we sure do they do a pretty good job probably just not by your house well they don't get to get that thing down and get it clean like they do on Ramsay so because uh Brad comes over my son lives over and Ramsey and he said yep everything is good till I hit now then and then then it goes to pot so I don't know we've got a lot of compliments too we have no compliments on that on the that kind of operation they run there because it took me 10 years to get him to put the sand on the right side of the road you put the sand on the side that you're accelerating on not and instead the stopping one and you want the sand so you can stop you don't care about if they ever get going because they're not going to hurt anybody but you can't stop you're in trouble that's the way I pulled more cars out of that Jasper and 185th and you can probably count okay so are we on our last one irrigation yep um yeah good question mark I guess about irrigation requiring it as we get into you know possibly attracting hopefully attracting some commercial businesses uh some required some cities require an industrial districts but you know if you get a drought in your trees die you got to replace them under the current ordinance you know it's a lot to ask I guess I just threw it out there as a discussion item foreign irrigation I mean what if yeah I mean well if you think about the I'm just I guess I'm just thinking depending on soil you may not need it I mean it might be once every five years you have a I don't know is it always going to be needed no to always require it and no you've got too many types of soil in now then some areas if we've got lots of nice clay if you're studying the soil map you would see where the green areas are the green area is typically a plenty of moisture the attempt is to make everything look nice well right so you get into it with commercial developments right with the sod and the Curbing and the parking lot medians and the areas along buildings that get you know beat by the Sun and whatever people may automatically choose to do it anyway to maintain their Investments but not everybody will you know granted we're not you know we're not like the birds right now so maybe it's premature to even think about it you could just require they keep their stuff alive and they can choose how to do it yeah so you could you know if they don't replace items yeah you could it's an extra expense that someone might never turn on let's put a recommendation for irrigation to say it's recommended but not required I don't know that's probably a smart way to stay out of trouble yeah but the ordinance isn't a recommending yeah that's true so you just either put it in or leave it out let me rarely leave it out because of the fact that a great chair and now then is you got to play in it and the people that really want it if they've got the buck they'll have water I don't care who it is when I lived in Ramsey I had 140 gallons a minute my lawn in this pounding three sand points where we went you're full of stories tonight all right so Nick's item C okay yeah okay sure uh item D Boulevard public Railway limitations just um I do want to compare what I've written here with some of the the other section of the city code relative to public right-of-way regulations but generally we have had discussions in the past about I guess again it's just a guideline for residents you know where they can plant where they can't plant um no overhanging or encroachment of the road surface shoulder trails just noting that all boulevards are public property and are subject to the right of the city and if any utility companies come in and need to remove anything they do not you know plant trees they just restore with dirt and grass seed so do some Basics there that makes sense yeah a lot of people don't realize it but it all makes sense okay [Applause] [Applause] Mr chair and Mr Mayor do you we had a conversation about code enforcement um possibly kind of revamping that section was do you think the council's vision was to bring that through Planning and Zoning as well or just deal with that in a work session or how to move forward okay take the account the council wanted me to do in the work session all right let's see the document first that's the feeling I got to do okay so there may be some we'll revise this there may be some added things added to it um there may be a I don't think it's blood played I think there's a Shoreland ordinance update that we will not consider another things like small small housekeeping type items I'll give that more thought over the next month anything critical that we've talked about in the past that you can think of that we need to address ordinance wise not really I'll take that as a note Cameron I just have one question yes go ahead what is these upcoming projects that you have on the agenda right here sure um what's what's the reality of those moving forward and when would we expect to maybe see some movement on some of those well I know you and I talked a little bit about it but it might be good for the rest of the group yeah that's a good point um so Gustafson played on England I know they just hired that's on the south side of Bear Lake they just hired or are in the process of hiring an engineer to move forward they are splitting some lots for family members they did talk Mr gustafs and I met with Jason he indicated they were possibly willing to dedicate some land to the city um it's not well we'll just leave it at that I'm not sure the location exactly or or whether it would even be you know useful or if the city would even be interested in it um so that'll be either three or four Lots and then the top final plat we are currently working with tops to finalize the first addition still as far as recording there were discrepancies in the recording of that or attempted recording of that clap so we're working those out they had to either redo the plot or redo the legal documents so that everything matched as far as ownership and then they are still planning to move forward with their second edition which includes more industrial lots and the residential lots did they ever get the roads figured out there is that a legal road yet well they're close but that's also on the to-do list there are some the city hasn't accepted again no no um for more industrial lots and residentials without it except the road it's going to be a challenge oh yeah we wouldn't let that move forward without first settling on the first phase yeah for sure uh and then the Shermer five lot plot on Twin Parkway I haven't heard anything from him he she had a wetland delineation done and you know had conceptually talked about it but I haven't heard anything so I don't what is the address on that there is no address it's wow approximately you've been Parkway in 205th it's between 250 between law and twin Parkway and 210th okay yeah right across my side Fields yep right there then there's just one small Wetland on it make sure all right you know