have to be careful over here because your chair might start sliding. It does slide around. Slides around. All right, it's six o'clock. Everybody ready to get started? Perfect. We're going to call the meeting to order. So, today is the 23rd of April. Uh, and we're going to start out with the pledge of allegiance. Your chair takes off. Yeah. I also boils, will you take roll call, please? Mayor here. Council member Blaze here. Council member Brian here. Council member Rain present. Council member Swenson here. Engineer Nelson present. Uh fire chief Miller pres Oh, I'm sorry. Financial advisor. Yeah. Sorry. That's all right. I had it down here. Lori Hag only good for seven items. So assistant, how do you pronounce your last name? Stol. I'm here. Thank you. And consultant. All right. Thank you, sir. All right, we'll move on to approve the agenda. Um, one item I would like to just make one announcement I would like to add to it, and it's just about the city, but um, so I would like to add that as like 1B right after we approve the agenda, just to talk about the city on Friday, the hours of operation for the city on Friday. Is there anything else that needs to be discussed on the agenda? Mr. Mayor, council member Brian. Motion to approve the agenda as amended. Okay. Is there a second? Second. Second. All right. All those in favor of approving the agenda say I. I. Those opposed. Motion carries. So, just uh the quick announcement due uh due to uh a death in the family uh from the intern city administrator. We're going to close the city hall at 3 p.m. on Friday, which is what's the date? Friday. So, next 25th. 25th. So, Friday the 25th, the city hall will close at 3 p.m. That's the day of the funeral. So, give everybody an opportunity to go to that. Okay. So, we'll move on to agenda item number two. Uh, accepting the resignation letter of Michelle. Mr. Mayor, Council Member Bryant, make a motion to approve the resolution accepting the resignation of administrative assistant Michelle Graner. Second. We already got a second. Um, so we'll go to vote. All those in favor say I. I. I. Those opposed. Motion carries. Moving to the next one, which is approval of the uh the two part-time uh employees for the public works. Uh looks like an interview was done with Supervisor Blaze and Council Member Rainville. And there's two two people which is Philip Olsen and Joseph Bowski. Anooki. All right. Okay. Any discussion on that one? We could roll this right in the consent agenda. Mr. Mayor. Okay. Council Brian. If there's no objections, I'll make a motion approving the hiring of the two seasonal summer employees. Second. All right. We already got a second. So, we'll go into vote. Uh, all those in favor, please say I. Those opposed. Motion carries. Okay. Okay, we're already on the agenda item number four and it's the capital improvement plan. So Lori, I'm going to turn it over to you to lead this discussion where we talk about not only the capital improvement plan, but the equipment replacement plan. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, um annually we look at our cap five-year capital improvements and fiveyear equipment replacement plan. And included in your packet um are descriptions of equipment and descriptions Thank you. Sorry. and descriptions of uh the uh capital improvements that staff has um looked at and is requesting for the next five years. Um the first part of this capital improvement plan is the u actual plan itself and it it describes um what the CIP is, what the ERP is and then it it goes into detail as far as what the transportation section is, what the TARP section is, and so forth. That was just something for you to look over and if you have any changes to to let me know um what your what your concerns or or what any changes that that you would like to make um to those that description that is in there. And then if we just jump right into page um seven on your fun report and we can go right into the capital improvement planning process. So, um, currently in our building and capital improvements, um, there was initially $75,000 dedicated to do improvements for this building here that we're in. And we did spend about, um, $13,900. And so, there's still 61,000 left that I have kind of earmarked in 2026. Um the council can decide what they want to do with that. If they want to just leave it alone or if there are some other improvements that they want to make in 26. Um we can have that discussion. Uh but right now I don't have any other buildings currently that are on a proposal. There was a storage building that was discussed last year and it was not um carried forward or or followed through on. So, um, there are no building improvements I have listed. I don't know if anybody else has any recommendations. So, the one thing that has been discussed is just redoing some of the internal here. Uh, as we know, the walls are pretty dinged up. And so, it would be some uh these are they're not sheetrock. This is plaster. Yes, plaster walls. So, plaster walls and paint. We could also look at potentially um adding the projector up on the up on the ceiling and some drop microphones, something like that. Um and that's where some of the funds could I know there was also a proposal to make a council chamber. That was the other thing that was discussed. Council Randall, I believe you brought that up or at least it was part of a discussion. Yeah. Uh Mr. Mayor, Natalie has mentioned um would like the ability to be able to set our council chambers and leave them so staff does not have to come back. So, she was thinking of using the back part of the room, having a wall that would lock and we'd still have the majority of the room for use for residents that want to rent the hall. Um my only question I have is and to the fire chief is if we put a permanent wall here or accordion walls, um what does that do for a fire, do we need two fire exits? We have to look at your mic, please. Sorry. So, sorry, Council Rainbow. We'd have to measure the room out, take a look at the at um what the what the or apply that to the code. More than likely, it would probably um meet the code depending on what we use for um a temporary wall. Okay. Thank you. Any other discussion on that? Members of the board, uh council, I mean I'm in a different place. So, and members of the council, the the fund balance in there right now is $272,000. Um, right now I have $61,000 set aside for council chamber improvements. Is that going to be enough for what you're discussing? Should we increase that to 100,000? I don't know. I don't, Mr. Mayor. Council Rever, go ahead. I think that last council meeting, council directed um administrator Johnson to put some numbers together as an option. So, okay. I don't know if she's had the opportunity to do that. We didn't give her a deadline to bring it back, but I couldn't remember. Okay. So, yeah, they would have more information on that. All right, Mr. Mayor. Uh, public works supervisor Glaze would also like uh to mention the tin roofs at Twin Lakes Park as a potential uh improvement. So, that'll come under should be under park still, right? Yep. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for bringing that up. So, can we just leave the 61 for right now because we don't have a different plan and then we can talk with Natalie and and find out what that is going to be. Okay. So, and then currently under the park improvement fund, um you get um dedication fees from u developers and those funds should be spent or must be spent on park improvements and uh trail improvements and things like that. And so, currently there is no specific project that you have listed for parks. hearing 10 roofs are are a possibility. Um so this money has to be for an improvement um to an existing park or it has to be adding additional parks or trails. It can't be just maintenance. So maintenance would be replacing probably a tin roof and that would probably go in the general fund under the park department. Okay. During our budget process, even a roof, even though it's in the park, it's going to fall. And maybe that would be an improvement. We could consider that an improvement. Take it, Mr. Mayor. Council Rambo, go ahead. Miss Jagger, because don't we does does not that improvement have to last a minimum of five years or is it 10 years? Maybe 10. I will look that up though. But you're right. Yeah. So, in that wood they're they're sheet metal roofs. Okay. That um the ones that are there um the actual metal itself are from another park within Anoga County. Okay. And they have been on there since before we got the park. Okay. Which was probably early 2000 maybe is when Anoka County gave it to us. So they're going to last whatever we do. So, I would think it would be they would be eligible to be used by the the park funds, Mr. Mayor, members of the council, there are plenty of funds in there. There's $237,000. So, if does Joe did Joe have a estimate on that? Um, not at this time. Okay. Mr. Mayor, I think that's the action coming out is to get an estimate on it. Yeah, Mr. Mayor, I would ask the council um vote to direct staff um to provide um estimates for replacing the metal roofs at both the now the memorial park and the Twin Lakes Park so that we have it for all of them. Okay. Do we have metal roofs over here at Memorial Park? I'm trying to think now. Is that might be a Do you remember, Dan? I don't think they're metal. Okay. I know we put metal roof on the garage. That's what I'm thinking. The garage has a metal roof. I think the building does. Yeah. So, is it safe to assume those roofs are leaking? Yes, Mr. Glazer. Um, what happened was when they got them from uh the other park, the holes that were in the roof were from the bracing of the previous structure. So those holes are open in the yard. Oh, and I don't know if there's something you can put on them, you know, that would not look terrible that would be sufficient to plug them. I don't probably easier just to I'm with you on that. I also think that there was concern about wind um wind shear and stuff so that whatever goes back on has to need the building codes. Okay. So, we got a a recommendation uh for a vote from Council Rainville. Is there a second on that? I'll second. Okay. So, we'll bring it for a vote. All in favor, please say I. I. Those opposed? Motion carries. All right. So, we're going to look into that. And Mr. Mayor, members of the council, um, previously the council has looked at pickle ball courts, and I don't know if that's out of the picture. I know that there was a resident that recommended it. Okay. They said the basketball court doesn't get used and they would like to see them turn into football courts. That's as much as I could on that recommend. Mr. Mayor Cry, people have people still use the basketball courts. Obviously, they're aging as well. And the complaint I had about the basketball is the they have the 1970s hoop where the the hoop is, you know, relatively close to the pole. So it could become a theoretically a safety issue by and needing recommending possibly to put in the new style poles where the hoops, you know, sticks out more. So it's not not right there. So people have used the pickle people still do use the basketball courts. Um we expanded the court so that you could perpendicularly put two pickle ball courts in. Um, one possibility minimally would be to at least stripe them so that they can be used and people could get a temporary net, which a lot of people do, so that they could could be used as a pickle ball court. I hear a lot about pickle ball, so I think it's uh gaining in popularity. I personally don't know how many people use the basketball court. If anybody is, uh, it does get used. I've never really noticed how popular that park. Are there a lot of people up there every day using it? I can't answer the question. Mr. Mayor, Council Rainbow, Council Member Spencer, it is. People are using it. There are softball field. We are here Monday night for a meeting. There was a softball team doing practice out there on the field. Um, now then Alliance Church uses it on Wednesday nights for their um it's a kitten ball. I can't remember the name of what ball they play. Um and and there are other organizations that use it and families where we used it in the summer of our heritage festival meetings and there was always families coming in and out and playing on the does get used. So if we were going to just talking more about the basketball court um council Brian you said that you could have a full basketball court and a pickle ball court all in the same general area. This is your basketball court right now. There's a hoop on each end. Okay. It was expanded perpendicularly so you could stripe a pickle ball court and a pickle ball court. Now you could, you know, and there's no reason why you couldn't let people play half court ba basketball and pickle ball. It could be split in half so they could shoot baskets over there or half court basketball and do some pickle ball. I have to tell you, I think that makes sense doing something like that. um just with the popularity um coming back. Now, we wouldn't put a permanent net then out there. It would be a a temporary net that they could bring with them. Is that how that works? But you're going to still allow basketball. Yeah. You couldn't put a permanent. Yep. And I think we still need to allow basketball if it's being used. I don't The goal is not to take away but had to. Yeah. So, I mean you people can, you know, buy a temporary net and pop it up right in the middle and there's the court. We at my house, I mean, I bought for my kids a movable net. Um the city might want something more substantial than that, but I mean they do have them and my kids move them on and off our driveway. So it it might be feasible if we have an adequate space to plop it down and people could just set it on, take it off or it might get stolen. Mr. Mayor, Council Ra the uh to for the city to purchase that That's always a possibility. But then if somebody wants to use something on a Saturday and our offices are not open, how do they get that equipment? That's, you know, or in the evening. You don't come up during business hours. Um, you can't get the equipment to put the net out. Um, I know that our volleyball we we used to put volleyball net up, but it was damaged. So, now it's you bring your own volleyball net. And that's what I would fear would be the same thing if the city provided a net unless there was a large enough damage deposit to replace it. So bring their own net for pickle ball. Okay. So I I I would like to make a motion to say I think we should stripe half the basketball court for pickle ball and then they could be bring your own net. I'll second that. All right. So we got a second. So um it would be to get a quote for this guys I guess is what I should say. It's not you guys. Just do it. Just get a vote for it. See what the possible is going to be and then we'll bring it back. Mr. Mayor, if I may ask to amend your motion to go ahead and stripe both pickle ball courts as well as a basketball court. So you can have white striping be one and yellow being the other or something like that. So if two different groups wanted to play pickle ball, they could. Motion amended to exactly what Council Member Bryan stated. Is there a second on that amendment? I accept that amendment. Okay. So we'll go around for a vote. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed. Motion carries. We'll get a vote on it. That's great. That's a better idea. So then they could possibly play two pickle ball. Okay. Anything else on parks? Um yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. There was u some discussion regarding the disc golf, the nine holes that you have disc golf and and there was discussion regarding improvements of or making some improvements to that. maybe putting in new nets or chain. I don't know if you have chains. I seem to recall somebody had mentioned um possibly needing upgrades to the signage and maybe the trails is the trails. So, if that's been done, there's been some damage to some of the signs. Um I would yeah have to ask staff on that. Okay. Well, we could certainly do this and ask them just like we've been doing, ask them to get a quote, figure out what it should look like, if it's cutting trails, updating signage, and talk to council member Greenberg. Yeah, he was the one that was. Yeah, he's the one who put the signs together and probably uses it the most for looking for input. Yeah, I think when we did our tour, they were kind of uh maybe not as accessible as what they should have been. So, the trails probably encroaching in. Okay. Um, anybody want to make a motion on that? I'll move that. There a second on it. Second. Second. All right. So, all in favor of uh disc golf signage trails evaluation for uh for a quote say I. I. I those opposed? Motion carries. And then, Mr. Mayor, members of the council, the final thing is the Memorial Park improvements. I don't know where you're at with that. Mayor, Council Rael, on the main council uh agenda, I have a request or council action that the council consider um adop adopting a policy for ad hoc committees. Um and then um appoint an ad hoc committee for the memorial. And the ad hoc committee will consist of one city staff from public works um council representation and then residents. And from those residents, I would like to draw um residents and or their families that are military veterans um and ask them to put together a plan for renovation of the memorial. And so council come to the meeting with thoughts of what would you like to see out there? Um we've had foliage um that got overgrown. The public works took it down last fall this win this winter I think it was. And so have to figure out what we want to do then. Do we need to upgrade it or update it with the wars that have occurred since that was done and put in? And I know that we have a resident here whose daughter was killed um while serving at one of the wars that I can't remember where she was when she was killed. So do we want to upgrade another memorial granite memorial so that we can include that? So the plan sounds like the plan will be done a little bit later on as we get some residents involvement. So this is really should we allocate some funds 28 27 that would be part of the the five years kind of okay but we don't have to do anything else and we don't have no All right perfect that'll come up later anything else on parks man go ahead for these park improvement funds does it have to be uh spent on physical improvements to the parks or could it be spent on like programming like for example city of No. All right. Well, that was a really quick question. Yeah, that was quick answer. That couple parts. Yes. All right. Okay. Roads is up next. Yes, that's engineering. And Shane is here. Thank you, Shane. And I think I'm gonna turn it over to him because you know, it's all about roads. So, yeah, Mr. Mayor, members of the council, uh roads are uh uh I guess a big financial item uh for any government entity. Uh it's probably uh your single largest asset by far. If you think of the replacement cost uh of your roads, uh I haven't done any estimates recently, but I would guess it's north of 20 million. Uh so we have a lot of uh capital invested in our roads and the roads primarily that are paved were paved uh from the mid 90s until the early 2000s. But we have this big bubble of roads that uh are all approaching end of life. Uh and it's likely going to uh if if additional funding is not possible, my uh assumption is that your the conditions of your roads are going to become worse in the next five or so years. Uh so with that in mind, um I just wanted to to start with that. I did prepare uh some uh capital improvement recommendations for the next five years. Uh but they were kind of starting at historical funding levels of around $500,000 per year and then kind of increasing towards the end of the term. Uh that's the the the difficult decision that council gets to wrestle with because I know that uh increased funding erodess usually means increased tax levy which isn't always popular. Um, and with that, I I guess I I did provide a recommendation there. We still have a handful of roads that in my opinion are still adequate to uh they're still in good enough shape to save it. And so what I mean by that is uh they're showing some some deficiencies. Uh when I look at the pavement, I can tell that hey, this is going to need something uh soon to add strength. Otherwise, it's likely to uh fall apart to the point where, you know, an overlay or some kind of other uh less costly improvement is no longer feasible. Uh so, we still have a handful of roads that I think uh in my opinion are still worth saving and I'm proposing that for the next two years, the city construct platum overlays on those roads. Uh and then and then beginning in 2028 uh I was proposing reconstruction of 184th Avenue and Tiger Street. Uh and then 2029 I was recommending reconstruction or reclamation and repaving of uh Iguana Street and the the roads in the commercial park here. Uh and then in 2030 starting with automakers. Um and these are all reconstruction the last years. The last three years would be starting reconstruction really. I I think after we get through if the the city moves forward with the overlays on the roads that are uh kind of recommended for 2026 and 2027. I don't know that we'll have much that is worth saving uh beyond that. Um, and one perfect example is uh Iguana Street. So, Iguana Street, I have my my 2022 the 2026 CIP recommendation here and with a map and there was some uh numbers and stuff that went with it. Uh, but in 2022, I recommended that Iguana was kind of getting near that point and that an overlay should be constructed soon, otherwise a more expensive repair need in the future. Well, I drove uh Iguana Street just recently based on preparing this. I did a quick drive through of some of our roads and I think that now uh four years or three years later, I guess, yeah, three years later, um you know, it's it's it's past that point. Um and and I don't recall I don't or I don't know if you recall but when my associate Craig Yokum was here for the public improvement hearing for this year's overlay project we have a slide in our presentation and that slide is based on MDOT pavement research and I think that's a really interesting slide because it kind of has that payment deterioration curve and uh as a reminder that the first 40% of deterioration happens over 75% of the payment life. So if you think of a 20-year road, that first 40% of deterioration, it takes 15 years. Um, and then the next 40% occurs over 12% of the pavement's life. So on a on a 20-year road, that would be like two years. So first 40% 15 years, next 40% two years. Uh and and really, you know, all of our roads kind of react differently based on uh you know, how much traffic they get, um subgrade soils. There's a lot of factors that it can just be like, uh um you know, did you have a fire in early in the spring or some kind of heavy equipment early in the spring that caused a bunch of damage? Um but generally, you generally that that same theory holds true. just whether or not is it 15 and two, is it 18 and three, is it 22 and four? But it generally all holds true that once the payment starts to, you know, once you start to see a lot of pattern cracking, it generally starts or continue to deteriorate pretty fast. So, have we always done a five-year proposal on on on this? Is this possible we can go further out? So what what I'm trying to get at is how how do we get to the point where we can continue to resurface them because every time we got to reconstruct them, it more than doubles the cost or triples the cost to resurface. So like you said, if we would have did I iguana street, we could have got by with a much lower cost if we'd have done it three years ago and now we're at the point it's not in the plan and we have to fully reconstruct it. I think that's the the key point is how do we get to that point? looking at what we have. Is it possible this can be projected out five more years so we can look at it so we can get to that point where we're resurfacing on time and no longer letting them get completely, you know, we have to completely redo these streets. Uh yeah, Mr. Mayor, uh council, we could certainly uh attempt that. Uh the the one thing that we can't predict uh would be like those unusual traffic or I mean I've literally had a a roads where they were uh five years ahead in the schedule and then there was a house fire in uh early April or late March or something when the the road base was off and it just destroyed the road. Um, so we, you know, it's hard, it's difficult to predict those kind of things. And again, uh, there's other facial just repeated garbage trucks can damage our roads. Uh, so a neighborhood that has, uh, six garbage providers instead of one garbage provider is going to deteriorate faster. Uh, those by far do the most damage to our roads. Um, so so those things are are hard to predict and you know I don't know what roads or what neighborhoods have uh multiple garbage haulers and we certainly understand that you would not be able to predict all that but just kind of looking at it laying it out because does our cost drop down if we get ahead of we resurface these through 2030 and then we're back repaving in 2031 through 2035. That's kind of what I was looking at and and I'm going to ask you to do it. It really be be a council vote to say should we should you provide an estimate because this is going to cost money for you to project out five more years. Correct. Yeah. And and and we certainly could provide a proposal for the council's consideration where we do that. Um my uh just my familiarity with the roads and kind of where we're at. Um we we have done uh quite a few roads in the past five to 10 years. Uh but we have not done all of them. And so really we have that bubble to get through and and whether that takes uh 10 years or 12 years that's all going to depend on that's a pretty big bubble if it's 10 or 12 years on funding levels but it's um you know for example I provided a a short memo with kind of a five-year recommendation and the cost uh for the next five years was 490,000 in 2026 520,000 in 2027. Those costs were just overlays which are are our uh least expensive improvements. And then beginning 2028 was a full depth reclamation that was 480,000. Uh 2029 750,000 and 2030 820,000. Uh so the costs were kind of increasing during the five-year terms. And then I noted at the bottom of the memo uh the the list of road that I could just think of right off the top of my head that aren't getting addressed in this five-year term. Uh you know, Jasper Street is one that a lot of us are probably familiar with. Jasper Street's not in very good condition. In five years, it's really going to not be in good condition. Um, and we've been talking about Jasper retreat for a long time and that's that will be an expensive one to rebuild because uh it's it's a long road. Uh, so we're talking a couple million dollars probably just right there. Um, and then there's a handful of other streets as well. So, uh, would see it keep going on that similar pace of the almost a million dollars a year for 20 31 32 something like that. Yeah. because that's not a bubble. This is like a a steep ramp is what we're coming into just to take care of roads to get them back up to Mr. Mayor. Council member just want I have a question for you, Mr. Nelson. And I'm new on the council, so this might be a dumb question. These people probably already know, but educating. So when we say it's a 20-year road, can you extend the life of that road beyond 20 years by just doing the buminous overlay if you do it in time? And at what point do you typically need to do that to extend the life of it? Yeah, Mr. Mayor, uh, council member Swanson. Uh, yes, the answer is yes. So, uh, we have, uh, done that to the extent we've, uh, been able to financially. Uh, and constructing of auminous overlay is generally considered to extend the life by 10 years. Uh, in practice, I think it's closer to 15. Can you do it again to extend it another 10 or 15 or at some point, do you have to replace the base? Um, so there are uh there are definitely situations where you can construct two overlays uh before like a full reconstruct. I've I've experienced that uh in other municipalities. I don't think we've have any we don't have any payment in now then that's that old yet where we've uh constructed to overlays. Um, you know, one really important thing for m maintaining the integrity of our roads is crack filling. And, uh, the city has a a pretty good program in place. Now, we didn't always have as good of a program. Uh, but that's really important because when water gets into those cracks, it makes us the the base soft. And when the base is soft and you have heavy trucks over it, it makes the payment yield. And that's when you see like secondary cracks around a primary crack in the pavement. Um and and that's one challenge with overlays is it's always going to crack. You know, we have a temperature difference from middle of July to middle of February of over 100 degrees. And there's almost no material that doesn't change change its properties with that big of a temperature variation. So pavement like most materials uh contracts during cold weather and that's why it cracks. And uh trust me probably all of you will hear from our residents after this overlay project is uh constructed this summer that you know this is a bad job. The pavement already cracked. Well, okay, we expected it to crack. you know, it has to crack because in the p in the winter time, the pavement contracts and that's not a problem as long as right away next spring we're in there crack filling those roads and sealing those cracks. Um, the longer the the pavement is in place. So, let's say that it's a 30 or 40 year pavement, there's probably more cracks underneath that will reflect through and you'll have more cracks to fill. But yes, you could you could extend the life until that more extensive repair is is necessary because that'd be nice just to identify those roads that within the next 10 years if we don't, you know, do the buminous overlay too that we're going to have to do a full-on replacement like happened with the iguana street. Like if we could just focus on those for like a 10 or 15 year plan or something and you know I think that would save us a few bucks if we didn't have to replace roads every year entirely or it sounds like that's the case. Well, Mr. Mayor, members of the council, I think um Shane did recommend um you know actually doing like a million and a half a year. So So half a million of puminous and then and then doing some some whole reclamation too because you you'll have roads that are going to fail and so you still have to do those but to get ahead of it I think you need to do the batuminous and and yeah it's it's a big cost. Mr. Mayor, Council Rainbow, go ahead. Um, did Junior Mela, our roads are old when they were installed. Um, there were certain developments that there really were no guidelines, no can't standards. Standards. Yes, thank you. Um, and so the developer did not put in a road that's going to last. And what happened is on um Council Member Rickard lived on that street and they had to redo it again because it was such a poor job to begin with. So our roads are at a point where they're all old, but they need to be looked at. One way to maybe try to prevent going to reconstruction is to do more in each year in overlays. It's more money each year, but we get it at a a lesser cost if we're doing overlays versus reconstructions. I don't know if there's a you know your list on the back um that we haven't addressed if there are any of those that could be included in a 25 or 26 27 budget year for overlays may prevent us from having to do the reconstruction. Um, public works supervisor Glaze has requested that 218th Avenue be added to 2026 for patching and overlay next year. Is that a patching a grinding overlay that way? Is that what he's saying? Or he said uh patched and overlay next year. Okay. So that's that's what he's asking. Uh, Mr. Mayor, I think 218th. So, that's just east of Denon Street. I think the culverts were uh being replaced this year. That's a probably a very good recommendation because that's what we had said. We're going to replace the culverts this year and then do that, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. That was not included in the in here at all. Right. Under the 490,000. No. No, it's not on there at all. Um, yeah. So, 218th is uh if if we haven't already if patching isn't in the plan for this year, uh then we'd have to patch the over the culvert location and that road's also uh probably 20 years old, maybe 23 years old, 25 years old. I think it was 97 somewhere in there. Uh so it's due for an overlay. uh one I I recall discussing that previously and the the difficulty is that it's you know it's off of xenon which is a gravel road and previous council wasn't sure how residents would react to being assessed to improve their road uh when they still live or have to access a gravel road to get to their house. Mr. I have uh public works supervisor Glaze on the phone. You can go ahead Joe. Yeah, two or eight maintenance is we replace those two big covers this year. So, they need to be patched next year. And since you're there, might as well overlay the whole road. So, he's recommending the whole road. Is that what he said? Yes. I I think we should at least get an estimate to see what that would make for the 2026. We don't have to make the decision today, but at least put an estimate in there. Do you have anything else, Bill? Thank you. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, there is um $45,000 in the budget for crack filling and there's $10,000 for patchwork. You made a face. Yeah. Uh Mr. Mayor, council member Glazer, $10,000 doesn't get very far uh for patching. Uh it will probably uh you know, you're looking at 30 feet to 40 feet of of road. Um it's not significant. A lot of cities will have a patching budget. A lot of cities of similar size will have a passion budget closer to 100,000 to and because if you look at these areas that are starting to fail. Uh and if you were to spray paint where they where the failure kind of is today and if you went back there next year, you would see that they expanded in scope. The year after they expanded in scope. So um if we also can introduce some patching into our roadways and try to you know again that only is an effective method when a small percentage of the road has failed. So maybe it's a thousand foot long uh road and you have 100 or 200 feet that's bad. uh in that recommend in that instance I would recommend that that 200 feet or whatever the bad portion is patched and so you can delay the more expensive repair on the road uh in the future. So your recommendation would be $100,000 per year just for patch patching which is filling and patching. Yeah. And and and Mr. Mayor at this point I don't know I mean I really haven't done a full inventory of the city streets uh in the recent years. Um, I know that uh sometime last summer the city used another consultant to review the roads. We've got I think we have some of the uh work product from that street study, but it's not very comprehensive. Um, basically what I've received to date is a a single map without any data behind it. So, um, you know, we could we could review and see if there are certain roads that maybe there there there is only is 10% or 20% that need to be patched. I don't know how much of that is is out there. It's been a while since I've driven every single road in the city. Mayor and a question for Lori. Um, so yes, in our budget we have $10,000 budgeted for patchwork and 40,000 for crack billing. It's my understanding the 10,000 is add add hot patch to the back of the pickup and drive around and fill in potholes. So too because if you look on our road improvement fund, we actually have $100,000 set aside for maintenance. Oh, just going to bring that up. Yes. So, and that can be for patching or whatever maintenance is that you're doing. Yeah. $100,000 in in the street. And councilman Brian, you might remember this better than I, but so out of that 100,000, was some of that broken down for calcium chloride, too, or is that's separate. That's done. So, we had 100,000 just for maintenance. Y that's fantastic. That is Yeah, anything else for roads that we need to talk about? I have another question. Um, when is the last time we converted like a gravel road to a paved road? Uh 1993, and then it got undone. Uh yeah, I'm actually thinking of Gypsy Valley 213. Um that was like 1993 or 1997 somewhere in there. And those roads are definitely showing their age. We we Mr. Mayor, Council Ray, go ahead. We we did take one asphalt and brought it back to to gravel, right? Because it was so bad and there were only a few people on the road and the cost would have been prohibitive for those few homes that were on that road. So, they went back to gravel. So, there are several residents in the city who do not want their road paid. Yeah, I do know that. I've heard that. And I I don't suggest that we should pave the whole city, but I'm just I I'm I'm certain there are residents who would like to live on paved road, and some of them probably would make sense, but seems like we can hardly afford to maintain the roads we have on. Well, there are options. Yeah. If if if residents on a city street want to pay to get their road papers, I don't see why we couldn't help them entertain that option. I mean others have done it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean what what is the the funding of that? So half of the cost is assessed and half is it's totally up to it's totally up to each individual city how they want to how how they want to separate it out even whether you want to split it up the middle or get somewhere close or assess it all to the residents. We've done it all the different ways possible. I could be wrong, but I believe like a city of the city of Ramsey has raised their property taxes significantly and they are paying 100% for their road projects. And when when it is assessed, you know, whatever portion to a resident, is there like a standard period of time that it's assessed for? 10 years. 10 years. It has the key with assessing is it has to improve the value of the property. If it if it can be proven that it doesn't then it can't be assessed dollar right as I understand correct me but um but it's usually has never really been an issue for the projects that we've been doing where everything's fallen under the 429 um rule for um for the assessments. I wonder if there are any neighborhoods or streets or residents that would be ready and wanting to pay some sort of assessment if we met them halfway. Wasn't there a resident that literally paid to do the his entire neighborhood street? So, Mr. Mayor, that's a go ahead. years back. Um there was a resident that they were doing a portion of the road and he wanted it then to come in front of his house that wasn't part of the plan and he paid to do the remainder of but um that was part of an existing program or the existing construction project. So it's something we could bring up when we do our open forum here if anybody they want to bring that up. That's a discussion point did I think was was it last year or the year before where there were some residents that wanted their road paved and what we said is we'd get a preliminary number for you and then if you can get your neighbors to agree on that then we can go with the full study and and a feasibility report in a in a dollar amount and when we gave them the basic numbers I don't I think we ever heard before because if it's not on our pro our our plan we don't have we're not required to pay any of so it's 100% on the res we all the city won the lottery going to be different but Mr. Mayor uh to council member Rainville's point too, there there is one street that the city has discussed in the past about paving for convenience uh which is Rabbit Street uh kind of in the southwest corner of the city uh between 181st and Burns Parkway. Uh that's just one little segment of gravel road that's off away from all the other gravel roads. So it's, you know, in order for uh our maintenance staff to go there and grade it or do maintenance. Yeah, you have to run the road grader quite a ways just to get to one little short gravel stretch. Another one that's that that same thing is um Jasper north of V. Oh, you know, right that's in between all the tuminous roads and you got to bring the grater out to do that one little piece. But to do that one little piece and the tuminous is very expensive, right? What was the problem with rabbit when it was paved over and then they converted it back to gravel? just didn't want it. Oh, the residents didn't want Oh, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, Mr. Mayor, we had done a prepared a a cost estimate of how much we estimated it would cost to reconstruct that road and and the residents uh just all was too cost prohibitive. They they said what? Say that it was it was too expensive. The assessments were too expensive. Those were larger properties, 5 to 10 acre lots. So, Mr. Mayor, council, we're talking about roads, just so that everyone is aware, um, one of the, and Shane can fill in all the details that I'm going to miss. One of the, um, talks where why some of these roads have not been done is a road like Jasper would technically be considered a city collector. And once the state gets once the city gets over 5,000 in population that um the the state helps contribute funds to to redo these city collector roads according to a certain spec. So that's why at there have been times in the past where where population numbers were going up where okay we're getting close to that 5,000 mark and so then let's not put city dollars into it all necessarily into that one road if we are going to be able to get some state funds to help pay for it. So that's that's there are several other roads throughout the city that would technically fall under that category. So that's been part of the discussion. Now, granted, we're not there right now. Um, and there's, you know, there's large developments around the city that have the potential to be putting in 500 or so houses, which would probably put us up and over that edge. So, but that's just something to keep in mind when we're talking about roads. Why didn't we do this one? Well, we talked about it and we were that was one of those roads where we went, it might not be worth putting city money into it now if we if we can get the state to help pay for it in two years. I think that's a a great point. Yeah. Why dump our money if the state will chip in once we get over 5,000? Mr. Mayor, Council Ray Bill. Um, and Met Council now has said we will not hit 5,000 for 2050. Yeah. Oh, we also have we also have a 500 acre development sitting off of Viking and 47 that can that 200 houses could go in at any time. That's always possible. Um, the other thing too is Shane did one time at council direction put together a grant request. There was a I can't remember if it was a state grant or a federal grant and you put it together to try to get Jasper and we were not. So we tried to go outside the box and look at one time that was that was precoid. Yeah, Mr. Mayor, it's you know we're in the we're in the metro district and so and and the grants are competitive program. they score it and we're lumped in with all the other metro cities. Uh and so it's it's really difficult for us to find a a road that's going to score high enough to receive grant money. Uh the same situation outstate, you'd likely receive a great, but due to our geographic location, it's just not very likely. Okay, so far Brian, I really appreciate that insight. That's something I did not know at all. So that's very good. Anything else on roads? Mr. Mayor, members of the council, um the road will impact the road the amount of money that you're spending on roads will impact your u future levies. It will not impact the levy uh projection for 2026. It'll just impact future levies just going to go up. The levies will go up because of our road improvements project. Yeah, because we will have to issue a debt to a to do that to be able to do that. So, but it won't show up until probably 28. It looks like as far as it being changed from a road improvement. It will go up in 26 because of road improvements that you've done in 25 and 2 or 24 and 25. All right. was our next category. Do we get to talk about his network computers on roads? Yes, Mr. Mayor, just maybe before we move off that topic, is there anything that council uh just to be clear, was there anything requested from me on the subject of roads? Mr. Mayor, wasn't there an additional batuminous 218? Yeah, 218. the one that uh supervisor Clay brought up adding 218 if the question is where does it fit per your recommendation we're thinking it fits in 2026 yeah and and Mr. Mayor, I can I can uh make that revision easy enough. Uh we also had discussed looking out longer and looking at how big this bubble is. Uh if that's a request for me, I don't have clear direction, which is great. So I think bringing up the point it would be great if we had an overall assessment say here's when the roads were coming in so we could predict this out and really do a complete estimate. I don't know if going out five more years allows us to do that. So that's what I'm struggling with internally to say what what do we think makes sense. What I don't want to do is spend money and not do anything with it. So Council Member Brian, you got thought. Let's hear it. We're we we paid to have a road study done last year. That road study should be giving us more than just five years worth of data. We're just waiting for that road study to come in because it's what it was not done by Shane's company. Correct. So if it was paid for last year, is it being done this year? It's you alluded to that it's like in the works or it just needs to be it needs to be coming back forth to us. That's the product right there. This is what I have received. I I received a couple of emails uh with some cost estimates as well, Mr. Mayor. And I think the cost estimates in the emails if if I recall correctly were around uh between 15 and $20 million of improvements based on the current condition of the road. So that just as for scale-wise, I don't think that number is that unrealistic. That gives you an idea of what this bubble looks like uh financially. Does that put us at a million dollars a year for the next 15 years? Is that really what we're looking at? Uh Mr. Mayor, if it was a million dollars a year for the next 15 years, we would have several roads that would just be in uh very much disrepair and not drivable. roads don't last 40 years without uh some work or some maintenance. Um and and again, I haven't seen the data behind it, so I really don't know how good those those numbers are, but you know, my uh just with with my current five-year recommendation, uh we have a few million dollars worth improvements. I can think of, you know, Jasper's a couple million dollars, 185th, Clifton 187th, that's like three miles long. That's going to be expensive. Gypsy Valley and 213. That's a pretty long stretch. That will be expensive. Uh so I can see us very easily getting over $10 million. Um so so there is an option of waiting to see if we get more work product. Uh and I could utilize that. And if that work product's not received, then we'd have to come up with an alternative method to I think that' be the recommendation right now is just wait to see what we get. see if there's anything else that comes out of this road study that we may or may not get. Mr. Mayor, council, I would move that we direct staff to provide a status update to the c to the council on the road study that we authorized in 2024. Where are we with Natalie can find that information and just email it to us. I think that's great. So, I would second that motion. We'll do a quick vote on to guide the staff here. Um, all in favor of uh asking the staff to give us an update on the road study. Um, all in favor say I. I. I. Those opposed. Motion carries. Okay. Thank you. You know who the vendor was? More engineer. More engineering. Thank you. I was not tracking that. So, thank you, Councilman Ryan, for bringing that up. Okay. I think we're done with complete with roads. All right, moving on to uh computer networks for 2026. Y mayor, members of the council, um Natalie is looking at um getting some network computers for the city um for just having efficient computers running. I think the ones that she currently has are uh probably seven years old or maybe older. I don't know. old they are to tell you the truth. So, she's looking for up to $10,000 to spend on on um computers for network, which could be a maybe four or five computers, something like that. Mayor, um Niel mentioned to me that um our IT provider is telling us that our server is getting towards the end of its useful life. Um, and so is looking at options whether it's cloud or another hardware service. So I don't know how that would affect this and maybe it'll be 2027 with that. I don't know. Okay, Mr. Mayor, my clarification question. What what is a network computer? Are we talking the server or are we talking just desktop PCs attaching to the network? She's talking the server. She's talking. So this is the server. Server. Oh, okay. Network computers. Yeah, I think it's when I say computers, I would think computers, but okay. I think it's the server is what she's talking about with how beefy they are and how much they store and all that lovely stuff. Um, in her email she said server. Okay. So, that should be noted on page 20 to change the network server. Yeah. Mr. there. Brent, my question for Natalie is we have $3,000 set up for computer office equipment. Is any of that available to replace if we're talking desktop computers or is is there plans to use any of that this year for replacing computers? Is that in the regular budget? Yeah. And it's in her department office administration. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Yeah. I don't know if um she needed any new computers for staff or she has $3,000 in the budget for 2025. Y Mr. Mayor, Council Member Rainbow, I would direct staff to clarify what they're talking about on page 32. Is it the server? Is it um desktop computers or printers for staff? clarify what the request is for. Okay. So, that's uh I'll second your motion. Uh all those in favor say I. I. Those opposed? Motion carries. Okay. Clarification from staff. Okay. I I would also be curious about the the cost of cloud storage uh versus purchasing a new server. I have no idea what the savings are potentially are on that. So I I would also like to move to have the staff take a look at pricing that out as a comparison. Mr. Mayor, council member, that was one of the things Natalie wasn't doing already. Oh, so add that into the she'll provide that also. Are we ready for financial software for So it's on the bottom of page 21, also page 33, depending on which page number you're looking at. not to be confusing. Right, Mr. Mayor, members of the council, um the software that you currently have is Banyan and um I believe it is four years old now. And so in 2028, it'll likely be 7 years old. um it might be a good time to update or look at replacing it. But I I don't know if the cost is going to be $50,000 or $100,000 to tell you the truth, but I I had to plug in something for or less. Or less. Yeah. I think that would be a very healthy budgeted item at $50,000 for software. You can do a lot of software for for so Yeah. So at this point, it's just sitting on there. They got to do a more of a proposal. Yes. Okay. So no actions be taken. Okay. So, moving on to the next one of you. The tool Bobcat. We currently have a 2009. They're requesting replacement 2026. This is what the quote is sitting on everybody's table. Is that this? Yes. So, it looks like on the looks like there was budgeted for 83,000. I'm a little bit confused about that. The bottom of our paper says 83. Yep. And that's how much it is. So, all right. So, that's that must be an updated of a of a bail. The updated quote. Yep. I think I have used the term quote, not bid, right? I got scolded for that, but it's basically 78,000 and 83 instead of 83. Yeah. Okay. And I can change my estimate there. Mr. Mayor Counc is this quote through the state program or just through land of equipment. Mr. Mayor, yeah, go ahead. I was given a brief explanation from uh uh Isaac in public works and I believe it is the right it says on the bottom it says Minnesota state contact. So I'm assuming it's through the state. Yeah. Um it doesn't say anything about LO but again I have to make but it's from Lando but it is it's the state standard. Okay maybe that was a little cheaper too. Right. Right. So Mr. Mayor, members of the council, this item along with the um rescue engine and um the sterling dump truck is going to be bonded for in 2025 if we move to part with it. So, this does impact July. There is not enough funding available to pay for that in 2026. And so we would pay for it ahead of time. We have yet to discuss the fire engine rescue. Um that's coming up. Yep. So that would be part of this. Mr. Mayor, council member Glazer, go ahead. Do we for clarification we know how many hours are in the current machine? Curious. Is that the the Bobcat? If you give me a moment, I can figure that out for you. 2009. So maybe we should just move on to the question. Yeah, I I I think we can move on and we can come back up and get that answer on the dump truck box. So originally, u Mr. Mayor, members of the council, we were looking at getting another dump truck completely and then we had a discussion with Joe and he said, you know, really it's the box. It's completely rusted out. So, they're going to go out and just get a a box replacement. And he thinks that'll still last for another five years. So, not spending $400,000 on a new truck, spending $30,000 on a box in 2026 and then maybe having to replace the whole thing in 2031. He thinks it'll last for at least another five years with a $30,000 box. I think that's a very cost-effective proposal. I think so too. Now, it's going to pass the piece of push the piece of equipment past its 20 year, right? I usually always use 20 years as an expected lifespan, but if it's been maintained and it doesn't have a ton of miles, we can possibly do that and I'll say get by for a couple more years. Yeah, Mr. Mayor, Rainbow, um, public works supervisor Glaze has already had that box repaired and has had. I I looked at it the other day when I was hoping and um but they think that they can get some more work on it and have it last but it's already been it's been repaired multiple times because they showed us that but there's big exhaust holes in it. But here he's talking about replacing Yeah. getting a new box. Okay. Can we move on to the triacle trailer which I have no idea what this is? The trailer heavy duty trailer with three axles behind the dump truck or something. Yes. Carry more weight. Okay. Thank you. And the replacement is not until 2028. So we've got some time to consider and work. Mr. Mayor, Council Rainbow. Also too is um and I don't know this to be true but maybe you that buy trailers um I'm assuming that businesses for new equipment. Joe is also very good at looking at used equipment um but he's very careful on buying used but has bought used in the past which has saved us money. This one is from 1987. So right I think they've done well with maintaining this Okay. Can we move on to the skid loader? Skid loader is a 2019 and it's uh scheduled to be replaced in 2029. So, um there's still some time and and uh just wants it on the schedule for replacement. Blazer, what do you get for um what's the replacement on a skid steer at your It depends on ours. Hours and the amount of new skids. Yeah, my my machines are typically in the last because I don't put as many hours. Thank you. Okay, so that's 2029, so we're good. Yep. And 2030 is the the shop sweeper. Did I have that in there? Yep, it's in there. Okay. And um that is replacement and it's due to be replaced in 202. Mr. Mayor Council Rabbit, I believe that was a that was used when we purchased it. And I think the tool cap, when I go back to the tool cap, that was one we used um uh a score. Okay. We can look to try to help offset the majority of the units. Sure. Okay. Anything else on the sweeper? Can we move to uh fire department gear? Yes. So, first one up for fire department gear is turnout gear for 2026. Uh request is for 25,000. How many sets of turnout gear does that get us? Is that five at 5,000 bucks a piece? Approximately 5,000 or approximately five sets of gear. [Music] And the plan for 2026 is to hopefully hire um five new firefighters. Yes, please. I think that would be good line. Mr. Mayor Chief, you know what vendor that is? That vendor is um the consortium vendor U Jefferson fire safety. I know Baldwin's changing company because they found a significant savings, but I don't know the brand. It depends on if they're like Baldwin might be just out um price shopping versus um consortion. So yeah, I don't know. Absolutely. Yeah, it was just thought I can't hurt to ask. No, absolutely. Good on turnout here. We'll move to the next page and this is the wow. Yes. All right, Chief. Uh, rescue one. It's a 2005. You're requesting in 2026 a replacement for fire fire one. Rescue one. So, this is the truck that we talked about, Mr. Mayor, council members. This is the truck that we talked about during the during the planning session that we had um approximately two. This is that um this is the truck that that we would upgrade to um having a ISO rated pump on it which would allow our um anytime that we send that truck out that it can do both fire medical um car fires things like that extrication little bit larger truck than the rescue truck that we currently have but smaller than a fire truck um but still gets us all the credit of a fire truck. So, could I request that you provide some other options other than the $55,000 one? Is there other options out there that we can do at a lower cost? I can definitely look at that. Um, it's it's when we get into the pump, the the pump is what really drives that cost. Um, and the chassis itself will drive that cost, but I can definitely come back with um some different options. If you could provide three options, I think that would be great. I'm struggling with the cost of this thing. Absolutely. Can I ask without the pump? Does it affect the ISO? Well, the ISO wouldn't change. It doesn't help us. The the pump is what helps us with the ISO rating. The rescue truck is a rescue truck. It's just a utility vehicle at that point if we don't have a pump on it. So, if we did purchase one with a pump, it would theoretically increase our or decrease our ISO rating. Theoretically, yes. It would give us more points towards the the ISO rating. There's a lot of other factors besides this. This is just one of those. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, in the packet, Natalie included some leasing options. What's the back end? Yeah, there are there are some uh leasing finance options that we can explore and I can come back with those. Um uh the vendor that we're that I'm currently working with um they do have those options um which will then lower that payment across the board. Yeah. So, we'll come back with several options for you. Mr. Mayor and Council, somebody say, Mr. Mayor, council council member Brian, go ahead. Had nothing to do in rush hour traffic the last couple days. Is there on on 10 where where they're they're widening the road? Um, I know that we had a plan. This is just a off the total off-the cuff idea, but I know we have a plan to replace the grass rake. Is it any at all feasibly possible to get a pump for the like for the grass rating that would theoretically count for for for the sore and then and then that might change what we actually need for the rescue rig. It was just a offthe cuff idea. Sure. Council Brand um not a bad off-the cuff idea. The problem with um with putting a a pump large enough on a grass rig, it wouldn't become a grass anymore. It' be almost be too heavy because you have to have a 750 gallon per minute pump or greater to qualify for the ISO. Most of our grass trucks or grass grass fire trucks are 250 gallon per minute pumps, which are smaller, very small, very lightweight pumps. Um, so getting something that would be ISO rated on a grass truck would would make it too heavy to be an actual grass truck. We wouldn't be able to get it out on the field. There any other questions for the chief on the rescue one? Is there u any reason other than money not to lease a truck versus buying? Is that in fact what you guys do having a leased vehicle versus one you guys own? uh council member Sudson, council members and Eric, it doesn't really impact how how we you know on on how we deliver service. Um it just impacts budget and how we pay for them. So if you could work with um yes the financial consultant on that specifically. So if we lease it and we look at it over 10 years compared to buying it over 10 years, what is the impact? It's a lot less cash out of pocket if we go to lease it. Yes. Uh but what is a cost increase? You know, overall it's going to cost us another 100,000 or something over that 10 years. I don't know. Whatever that comes out to. Yeah, we can we can definitely uh provide those numbers. Yeah. Struggling with 55,000. I'm struggling with the two. Okay. If no other questions, we'll go to grass one. You want to tell us about that, Chief? Yes. That uh that truck is um is actually a a holdover from Ramsey. Um, I believe it's uh it's uh nearing end of life in 2028. Um, it only carries two firefighters, which we'd like to send out at least three or four on a grass um on a grass fire. And so that truck is just going to be in need of replacement in 2028 because of that. And it would go to a four passenger vehicle. Go to a four passenger vehicle. Yes. Yeah, that would make sense. But you need rescue one before you need grass one. Yes, we do that. Definitely need that before that. What a question. Even though this even though the spring has been a very very busy grassfire season. Okay, the next one. Chief, portable radios 2017. Portable radios. Again, uh Mr. Mayor Council, um this is uh equipment that's going to end or be coming to uh end of its useful life. Um, I talked about the encryption that um, radios that we need encryption on. That's um, these portable radios. And so we're looking at having to replace those because they're not going to be able to update the firmware, things like that. It's like every other electronic piece of equipment. It just ends where they can't update the the equipment anymore. So, and that's those radios are roughly about $5,000 to $6,000 a piece depending on the time frame that we buy them. Ouch. Okay. Any questions uh for Chief Miller on that one? Move to turnout gear dryer. Gear dryer. Yeah. This piece of equipment we already this piece of equipment um is going to um you know we may be able to extend it its uh life. U Mr. Council members, this is the the piece of equipment that we dry our turn off gear after we have a fire after we washed it. Um, it dries approximately uh five sets of turn off here at a time. Um, it's just a big blower is what it is. Um, and again, the more that we use this, the the shorter the lifespan becomes. Um, but right now we have it scheduled to to replace in 2030. Is it possible you can just replace the motor because the structure of the dryer is pretty just rigid pipe? It is. It's possible to replace the motor itself depending on what the structure looks like because the structure is is not just rigid pipe. There's other pieces that um can break off of it. But um it would just have to be evaluated at the time that we replace it. It's just we're forecasting to have a replacement for it. Rightfully so. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, you can see there in red, I'm showing in the equipment replacement plan in order to are you on page 44 on on page 32, not mine. You can see there that it's um but we do have to issue some debt. Um I'm trying to also coincide it at with the same time that you issue debt for roads so that you um reduce your debt issuance costs. It doesn't cost money to issue that. So um but that's the plan there. You don't have to issue as much. We do start contributing to the equipment replacement plan um a little bit next year and then uh gradually getting it up higher as the years go by. So we'd have to issue less debt in Yes. 2029 2030. Yes. Until that fire engine truck needs to be replaced. Maybe we lease it though. Yeah. Because if we leased it, this 597 would drop. Oh yes. Yes. Yeah. I'm talking about another truck back out further in that the actual Chief. Do we have an update on our fire? the one that's supposed to be here. End of May. End of May. Okay, we're getting there. So, we'll have um Mr. Mayor, members of the council, we'll have Natalie um use the updates and and whatever else that um you requested and then we'll probably bring this back if it's okay with you to the council um at the meeting in May for adoption um after we get some more information from Shane and returning. So, one thing maybe you guys can educate me when we say adoption does that mean if we accept this then it goes in our budget plan but it can still be maneuvered and manipulated in the budget. So, it's really adopting the overall concept that we have to do some improvements. Yep. So, it's just adopting a a plan. So, you're not locked in. Let's say if you adopt it that we can't change the model. No, you change it every year basically. Just so you have a plan. It helps with the bond issue. Um, you get a better rating when you have when you have financial plans in place. Um, so the the the debt issuers look at that S&P and movies they look at at what your financial plans are and make sure that you're doing a fivey year and looking at all your sound. Okay. Council, is there any questions that we have for uh our guests that we have here? Any questions on anything we discussed tonight? Julia, did you get anything about the number of hours number? I did not because I was not able to load um the mobile version of that I have access to. Okay. Thank you. Would you like me to make a motion to adjurnn? Okay. Second. We got a second. All right. Thank you. We haven't we provide a reminder city offices will be closed Friday 3 p.m. Sure. I can I can state it one more time but yes the city hall offices will be closed on Friday April 25th at 3 p.m. All right. Thank you.