the United States of America the stands indivisible andice would you please call council member rainville pres council member Alders here council member Bryan here council member flatal here C plan Stockman hereu attorney Blazer here depy clerk Johnson here and your city administrator president Ro calls completed sirve you have any uh different on the agenda that we are presented the correction amendments mayor council member Ryan most to approve the agenda as present I second that Mo by counc bran second by mayor Pon all those in favor signify by saying I I okay so we have six items here that uh yes District points absolutely Sam has presented that he would like to have conversation with the Council on uh we talked briefly before you I've asked council member alers to to C down action items he's very good at summarizing things and he done a great job for us in the past that way um so I'm going to ask Sam to present his uh conversation but I've also indicated that ad go along if I see fit as the presiding officer I will manage the meeting and there's an opportunity from the council that wants to ask for clarification or bring up a point certainly get my attention and we'll go there um Sam as I said if there's something that that I think is appropriate for somebody else on staff to weigh in on at that time rather than wait all the way to the end we'll do that as well so we'll try and keep the the meeting moving um but obviously we want to hear Sam out and and try and get to some conclusion or beneficial action so before we start anything that the council and we'll wait from staff until appropriate time so Sam if you could speak at the podium C you assuming that we are recording yes good afternoon Council Mr Mayor I have a couple questions basically I don't want to take up too much of your time but I wanted one of the big questions I had was how is a resident the city of now able to actually have a conversation with the city council I understand that we have the floor item portion um of the city council meeting and that allow us for Resident to come up and and you have a three minute time span of pitching what you want to talk about you don't really get a whole lot of interaction questions back and forth from the council so so before today actually I'm sorry before that last city council meting I was at on the 12 I didn't know anything about a request for Council action because that's never been told to me before I didn't know that that's how it worked so I would just like your input as the Council of how You' like to direct residents to have a conversation with it without using the floor items I understand it's not really intended for that yeah will say and I'll let each council member address it if they so choose um my experience in the past 15 years is that when resident wants to get the council attention they generally call coun sure we've had some inst in the past where um multiple council members will be called U sometimes all council members sometimes one or two council members and if it has to do with something related to a complaint or a question of Staff we generally go there first if there needs to be something brought up you go to staff first is that what you're saying yeah okay um if there's something that needs to be brought up uh either the administrator will bring it up in his regular updates to the council or we'll bring it up as an action item uh through the council typically the complaints have been brought to my attention or request for help because sometimes residents are saying I'm trying to get through the red tape of the council May the city and so sometimes we can help get through the red tape sometimes it's a complaint and typically the complaints are handled by staff without further need to um follow up and then the action item would be communicated to the staff or to the council by the staff when you say complaint you mean somebody a resident would have a complaint to V it's it's a variety can be um you know an obstructed sign okay trees are hanging over in the sign and and they try to get it dealt with and they did I would like to Pigg you back off of that if you don't mind um you you did mention complaints but do you does the council right now have any way of of uh uh monitoring per se or any complaints about your uh contractors if there's if there was any complaints about your contractors from residents do you have any way of documenting that or keeping track of it well when there are complaints we do have complaint forms yes okay but besides that that's it yes okay I mean I'm not aware of anything else that if if uh if there's a complaint of any sort whether it's something in the ditch or some performance by one of the employees or contractors typically that goes in on a complaint form and if it's not addressed and it's brought to our attention then we we address it there but typically most complaints are handle my staff perfect so just go see the city staff is what you're saying for that's always the conversation if if it's the city staff that you're running into so problems with what do you suggest then call of a council member or yourself yes if it's a if it's a contractor again we delegated responsibility to the administrator so it always starts there right um if it's if it's the city staff themselves and yes you go I understand that you have during our personal conversation we use reception and been thinking about that a lot um if the perception is is there that the administrator is is speaking on behalf and and supporting the contractor per se and not really taking into consideration anything the resident is trying to say um what what are your what is the council's recommendations there the uh first of all the administrator's job is to work with the contractors sure in in a professional manner so um as far as how did you say it's supporting the the contractors or uh correct y if you have two if you have two different ideas um if you have a discussion about two different ideas in my experience the perception that I have is uh our administrator Mr laner would support the contractor's opinion over your opinion which would be the resident which would be my my opinion in my case not only with um planner Stockman but also with mpect um and I just that that's that's where it begins to get frustrating because as a resident you go to the city uh the city staff which been Mr ler very easy to get a hold of the always calls you back fantastic in that in that respect um but when when you come it comes down to it you have questions about something and it's almost like your question isn't even isn't even heard it's nope that's what the contractor said that's that's as good as gold I'm thinking to myself like these are these are contractors that that are employed via the city council city council decides the contractors that that we have and they have contracts some don't have contracts and if we have to live here residents we have to live here in the city the the the contractors don't chances are good that they don't live in the city so it would just be it would just be ideal to get a little bit of support from the city being a resident and I don't really need a whole lot of conversation on that topic that's just one pie I wanted to say it would just be it would be nice to get a little bit of backing from the city staff so let let me let me address that and then I would like Mr ler to address it as well I I do think you know the the staff in particular and the council um on a regular basis do have interactions with our contractors and we we have them because we've hired professional people as our contractors and there are certain obligations they have to abide by our business so that's always where we start are we abiding by ordinances and and policy that the council has set so I don't see it as is taking their position over the resident okay um they're stating their understanding of the ordinance and and from their professional perspective giving sharing that with Mr Lena right and so that's where they the go goes back to what is the documented ordinance comp plan policy so any regulation that's where it starts and that's where the consistency should be there saying this is how things are run so I don't see it as taking aside there should be an explanation of of why we're doing it we said we always won't always agree on the outcome but we should agree that the process good sure and so that's the understanding is that you Mr ler working with the contractors understands the process and tries to communicate that and sometimes times it will look like the process is not in favor of the resident and that shouldn't be M staken that he's taking a contractor side on the resident side but he's saying this is what the ORD says and that's that's why we're proceeding as we are sure and I can I can see where I can see where you're going with that I I don't agree with it with the with what's going on in my mind right now with the certain instances that I'm referring to but yes I I I see where you're coming from absolutely okay so I I would like to if Mr L has anything to to say and again the council you have any questions or clarification on that as well Scott sure so I think you kind of hit on on the main things that I had in my head here but when it comes to Sam your situation specifically we've had numerous conversations and and U my attempt was never for you to feel like you weren't being heard um matter of fact there I have notes and of our conversations and when you brought up things that I didn't know the answers to typically my next phone call is to L is you know how did this pertain or how did that conversation and that go uh never to to discredit anything that you brought up but there were some things that you asked from time to time that I didn't have the answer to until I went back and took a look at it so um you know the things that you brought up and and the things that we covered uh sometimes I needed to go back to this but I wasn't picked one of the other right if I can bring up one one specific instance that that comes to mind is um a year ago when you you yourself came out to my property for that Cod compliance issue um we had talked before that meeting before that took place you and I had talked the mayor and I had talked and I had asked for something very simple and it was I I I couldn't believe believe how difficult it was to to get it but it was pretty simple what I had asked for was a detailed description of what you guys were looking for on my property because whever put the complaint in they had listed that I had items stored on my property and you you had told me that you would get with Liz and you would find out what exactly items we were going to come look for and that was days and I I even remember I sent the mayor an email that day and I said look it's it's I don't know what day it was let's call it the 15th it's the 15th and they're coming out still don't have an idea of what we're looking for and it's just you're just going to let it happen so in that instance I would say that you didn't really stick up for the resident um a little bit of clarification will go along way it it really would have um Mr Mayor St yeah part of what Mr corns is referring to is like he said the complaint was fairly General um about items s on the property we have since had a discussion about that at Council level and have agreed to be a little more inquisitive of the complainants to try to get specifics about what may be bothering them about you know a neighbor or somebody down or whatever um but our ordinance also allows us to send a notice or a letter to properties with suspected violations so for properties that you are unable to completely see from the road the only you know our first Contact is that letter so what happens is um well what happened in Mr Corn's case too is that um we basically try to cover all our bases in other words outdoor um storage um in aable vehicles uh we tried to take the regulations in our ordinance and list those there were probably five or six things on his letter and and at the Forefront um yeah we did not know what he had exactly and what we spoke about by email was the fact that part of the site inspection is either validating or not validating what the complaint is when you have to have something to validate though so it's a blanket it's a it's a blanket we're just going to come out and look for every single thing that could be an infraction see the city code compliance or the city code um complaints in the city of nman are complaint complaintant driven as I understand which you don't really have an issue unless somebody complains and I I agree with that so if somebody's going to complain about having an item stored in my property what item are you complaining about what item would you like investigate what item would you like seeing uh seeing something happen with it I don't I I I really don't agree that there's a blanket statement if if if all you have to do is just put in you know you got something stored on your property then you got free whim to go and walk all the way through that property and find every single infraction that that person has you I don't I don't agree with that one bill and and we also we addressed this last year because we didn't agree with that concept even correct um and that's why we have have tightened that up to be more specific but the C did still come out that day and they still did look for every single thing on that list semi trucks dumpsters rolloff boxes everything that was on that list got got looked for and we didn't have a single item that we were that we were looking for so and you were involved Mr Mayor you were involved with that process before they came up to the before they came up lock on the property which I'm grateful for because I think you gave really good Insight but nothing ever happened it still came out still came out still walked around it didn't matter that it was just a blanket statement a simple phone call to the to the person who made the complaint and say hey look you wrote items down what exactly are you looking for again it's something that was that was that was incredibly simple but yet so difficult but so so so let me say that again we we address that as a council and items is not sufficient to go hunting right um we've also instituted part of part of this challenge was we were in the middle of transition you know as I recall this happened in um when this first came up Liz you went on vacation shortly after that um by the time it was coming to the council attention Frank was leaving Scott was coming in we were in the middle of this baton hand off so it was a bit clumsy to begin with items is obviously very general and generic and does sound like a Hunting Expedition which we addressed at that time and so we have asked you know when complaints come in now that first of all they're specific and that we we make sure Mr ler is involved up front right so that we can try and head them off before they get into this process moving down the road through the complaint process counc member r um in going through documentation on this I believe that that conversation and change in policy occurred in October of 22 so it was after this right so we can't take our new policy and make it look proactive to what was happening in July and August we did address it we made change in October so going forward from then we have the pause just to add briefly that you know there are times when um let's say a neighbor thinks two cars stored outside is a problem where you know but I can't see what's going on so I still may have to include that in her letter um and I get out there and I validate the complaint or not in this case wouldn't be validated because two cars are allowed outside so there are cases where we have to attach the regulation that may be suspected and that is allowed by ordinance and just because you get a letter doesn't mean you're guilty that should be clear too I mean that is our first form of contact with residents and the city attorneys have re have recommended that you know we send a letter always to the tax address and only to that address unless there may be an owner living off site and a tenant situation then both would get a letter but you know calling people and doing anything differently is not recommended that's not what's stated in our ordinance is the ordinance though list items I mean I understand you know the the truck and you know the ordinance list examples of of things and so Sam was saying because there was a list of things in the ordinance you went out yeah obviously no 20,000 pound trucks there's no containers there there's nothing that might be listed in the ordinance I think probably more concerning was the fact that it was items right specified items and that that means he's L looking for them or I've seen the letters and it says the ordinance says these types of things not alive so that's pretty clear because you're quoting the ordinance I think the idea was we're not sure what we're looking for but we'll know if we see it and that's the concern nobody wants to say um come on out and see if you can find something and it's not like we were you know opening doors of the shed and looking under no but I'm just saying the clarification is the ordinance doesn't specifically say I and that's the concern because the letter said items and we have as C rangle said we've cleaned that up Mr the letter that went out to corns is the following items are suspected violations nothing was saying they were it was a suspected violation based on the complaint and what is listed in our ordinance and she provided some examples of different things that could be violation it doesn't say that there is it doesn't say that there isn't um it just it's that not ification of a potential violation let's have a conversation and let's see if we can end it right here that's the letter I think the concern was the complaint they said just said it I I get that I get that Mr mer kind of move off center here I mean High Level A letter came in with that was pretty generic we agreed that the process should be improved we made a process Improvement it went through in October of 2022 and our revise process is something generic comes in Scott's going to follow up and says hey we can't go there's lots of stuff in there like what is it specifically that is the base of your complaint and ideally this stuff would happen between two neighbors so we don't have to be the freaking referees of this because this is ridiculous that two neighbors can't say can you get your uh dump truck out of the front of the yard so I have to look at it or whatever it is because it's not align with what we think we want now that so I mean ideally that could have happened first A letter came in we probably didn't do as good a job because we don't do this every day but we have changed the policy and I think we should be at a point where here's what it is now we're moving forward do we think that's going to solve it going forward and if we all agree we think it's going to solve it going forward let's move on all right yeah oh okay uh let's see um I was talking with council member Brian on the phone a couple weeks back and we had talked briefly about the city council doesn't necessarily know every single thing that's happening in the city of M that's a PR fact and nobody's really expecting the you know every single thing that goes on in the city of now how could be uh a lot of that falls on the administration which would be the administrator and the city staff and they would have to basically brief the council I'm assuming on you you probably have monthly reports or quarterly reports or something to give you an idea of what's going on in the city of M um has were you briefed at all on on this on the uh the other complaint point that that we might be talking about in a little bit here was the council briefed on on all the difficulties through this uh pumping of the septic system and the DNR Wetlands were you guys briefed on that at all from the city from the city staff even what happened a year prior I have had one side of it that I've been able to look at I haven't had both sides so sure and I wasn't here a year ago so I didn't get briefed a year ago ask anything up a year ago no I'm not I'm not saying specifically a year ago but it it had been it had been dragging on and dragging on and dragging on and I think I think that the city believes that resolve happen somewhere around I don't know May or June of this year I have some notes from something to do with a septic whether it's the issue you're referring to or not I have no idea sure and the only the only reason why I asked the question is if the city if like you say you're not supposed to know everything that goes on in the city but what do you do in the instance that you that you don't know and nobody tells you which would be the conversation that a resident like myself could have with the council I'm going to clarify that a little bit here um Mr ler and I have been going back and forth for a long time I've been trying to follow up because nothing had happened nothing had happened nothing had happened nothing had happened and okay finally somebody has to know something somebody has to have an answer because it it wasn't handled like they told me like they told anybody it was going to be handled so maybe the city council knows something about it because the city council is the end all of decisions in City they they will come together and unanimously make a decision I believe so if the city council didn't know anything about it nothing can really be done we're just stuck in this vicious cycle of nothing's going to take place nothing's going to happen so then a resident such as myself would come up to the city and say hey I'd like to have a conversation about this could I bend your ear on it I understand that nothing's going to get done per se understand there's not going to be a result but we can at least talk about it just so more or less you're aware of it you know you're aware that there could be something going on in the city that you don't know about and could use your attention um there's also possibly an amendment to the the building regulation maybe not um like to talk to you about that in a minute but let's go back before you get off that subject okay and again generally things are going to come to the council level if they're not satisfactory resol sure if there's progress being made and sometimes even when they come to the council level when there's going to be fine there's going to be further action it's going to give legal action those things come obviously come to the council you have to authorize them and so when they do come up there's an opportunity for the the party that that is subjected to the action to demonstrate that they they've cleaned it up they they've corrected whatever but generally if there's cooperation between sometimes it takes a while that there's cooperation going on between the original complaint and the elimination of the problem right as long as they're seeing progress they generally don't bring that to the councel we do have a summary sheet that we've had in the past where there are code compliance issues that the council will see to see some of these progress on some of these things but if there's progress being made generally doesn't come here it's when progress stops or people aren't responding that's when staff will bring it to the council's attention and eventually it gets to the point where there's a fine they come to us to approve the fine and if it doesn't we responded to to assess the tax so the council was notified about a fine being sent out earlier this year um that would come not each individual we're if they aren't responding to the fine okay that's I'm with you all right fin go off no but if people are are not responding to it that typically comes to the council attention if you don't respond to a a code compliance um request I don't know you want to call it if you don't respond to a code a code compliance complaint uh is is there a possibility that you could get fin from the city just from you're non non respon from Resident yes good uh What what would happen if the resident just says no if if if the resident says no what to the to the let's let's say there's a complaint on my property I'm inou with Li and I just say no let's say imagine it's a 20,000 pound Tru right and I choose not to move yeah that would be something where You' be instructed over the ordinance you'd be given opportunity to to remedy it and you say I'm not going to then yes that would would Elevate to a fine and if the fine wasn't paid that would be assessed to years ass okay I was just curious it it doesn't happen for all the complaints that are out there most people are just an awareness thing I wasn't aware of this now that's that's why we don't hear about a lot of sure because when they get that first letter like sorry I didn't know about this I'll they care sometimes people decide not to do that and it proceeds down to a series of letters and eventually ends up with Mr Glazer Bri add to that the if you think about it if you're on the board of directors of a major Fortune 500 company you have no idea what what is going on at the the lower management and employee level as long as everything's going smooth you don't need to know all that stuff going on we don't need to know everything that staff is doing to from the the example I Ed Joe's getting gas and it's 359 a gallon or whatever that's being taken care of we don't need to know every little detail about that right I've seen the list of complaints the complaints are getting addressed I don't need to know of it but I know for sure if anything's going to be escalated Scott's going to let the council know hey we're going to have this this just bringing this to your attention in the updates and we do get those updates we so you know and if and if and if someone called the board of directors I would not expect the board of directors to override the the chain of command so to speak and go directly to the employee and go you have to go do this one would do the do some investigation and talk to um the next level to find out what's going on and let you know hey I just curious how this goes sure that's why that's why there they're work that's why they're in the positions they're in right is that fair oh absolutely that's fair most definitely but in the rare instance that that let's just say things get a little out of hand let's say they get they nothing goes right everything just turns into Qui say every move you make you just get deeper and deeper nothing goes right um at at what point does the council get involved when the council needs to be involved and how does the council know that they need to be involved well if if a res if someone talked to me and said hey what's I'm having this big problem my first connection is going to be go to Scott hey what's going on sure what you know is this being being resolved this is being worked on and Scott goes whatever oh yeah this is working on that there's some delays we're working through all that everything so far is going well just as an example right well then yeah that that exact thing has been taking place and my go-to person was Mr Pon because I felt that we had really good conversations we had we understood each other's we understood each other pretty well and that was going on because we were running into what's why is this not happening why is this not happening this was said to be happening but it's not happening and and went to Mr Elon and and uh he went to Scott and everything back forth and finally I just said I got to go and see the city council because this is something's got got something's got to somebody's got to answer a question I suppose no the amount of I don't knows that that took place are just it's it's frustrating as a so um and again just just to to clarify I would say as you said sometimes things get out of whack and escalate sure um from our experience is majority of time they don't okay and so we're we're looking at the exception to the rule rather than the rule right and so in our our experience is when somebody does bring something to our attention and we bring that back to the staff's attention and I would say the majority of time when a resident gets to the point where they're calling in of us and we bring it to staff's attention it's resolved relatively quickly there was a misunderstanding we get those parties together clarify the the understanding and they work well together I can give you numerous examples of that happening and the years I've been on the council so that's really the norm and what we're dealing here with an exception to the rule and that's why we're trying not to be overreactive though it's a big Challenge from your point of view because you're the one involved in something that isn't going normally and your you know your understanding of things but in our world it normally does the norm is if it's brought to our attention we bring it up and staff rectifies it relatively quickly this one's a little complicated um because a length of time and a number of different concerns that were raised and the one in particular that you're raising now the length of time it took to get resolved well not only that I think I think part of the reason why I'm frustrated is because none of it was none of it happened in the manner that it happened with with myself with me on my property in the same complaint very similar very similar to an extent uh we had the Anoka County Water and Soil Conservation District come up to my property during our little walk through and uh we wanted to make sure that where I was splitting firewood was okay and we're making sure that a little bridge that I put up over a Dry Creek bed was was okay because whoever put this complaint in on my property made me complaints regarding um the area of a wetland and in the state of Minnesota an area of a wetland is very it's very sensitive so everything that's done anywhere near a wetland has to be very has to be done very cautiously and has to be done with with good intent so when the city calls somebody like the youa County Soil and Water Water and Soil Conservation to come out and approve or not approve of of what I was doing doing on my property but none of which was none of this was done for this Southern Property and there's a lot of questions that I have about that I I guess this maybe a question to Mr I make a complaint about my neighbor or the guy down the road I provide the information that I have and I send it to the city at what point am I no longer part of that complaint am I supposed to be um included in all conversations all documentation all um actions until it's resoled the complaint is not against me I should be giving it to the professionals and allowing the professionals to deal with that that complaint and not every complaint is the same not every complaint can get taken care of in two weeks not every complaint comes to resolution and then we end up going through the whole administrative enforcement process and you're involved um but your your questions Mr Coles are are keep where where do you where are how are you allow to be involved in this complaint that is not to your property that's I I'm just having a really hard time on that sure follow follow follow up on a complaint isn't allow you can have I would think general information about it and I'm assuming staff provided that but I will let Mr Glazer answer that you know very often those two complaints are exactly the same and often some complaints are private and some of them have involved private data so conceptually um I think the way the council member stated it is correct is that usually it's it's up to the Professionals of the city right to handle those complaints and to give feedback whenever they think that's appropriate true you know and so like I said since there there's such a difference in the type of complaints that we get that there's no simple answer to that question and especially when the npca or um you're talking about a wetland inv all the city needs to consult with their Partners so it's a little bit on the professional Judgment of that individual with the city and to give feedback on so piggybacking off of that if if you talk to the city they give you the update they say that okay we talked to the DNR the DNR said they they would not come out unless we get hard evidence when you call it the DNR being the the resident you say is that right you you said you told our city that that you would not come out I said we never got this phone call that never took place so I see where you're coming from and I see where you're coming from council member rainville that but at the same time if if the checks and balances that everybody holds near and dear aren't checked and balanced might just suppos to you know oh it's off to the professionals everything's handled but then the one time somebody follows up on it and it turns out that nothing was handled appropriately or like they like they had initially said they would um I I I find that a little bit different a little bit difficult so what I want to be careful of s this is um use qualifiers where you can you said it wasn't handled appropriately and we don't know how it was handled and what okay understood what wasn't it didn't appear to be followed through in the way you would have expected right and there you talked to somebody at DNR you said uh yes the DNR and they they had received a question concern from the staff so I'm going to start with Mr Blazer your respons I just want to tell us all is that we have anate it's called the Minnesota data prac act and one of the tenants of the ACT is when the when complaints are under investigation they are private data they're not available to the public so if you called the DNR the enr told you about a complaint that was open in process that would be a violation of that law so I it would not surprise me that if you were to just tyly call the DNR and ask them about an investigation they would say we should say we can't talk to you about that if it's an open complaint and it's the same thing for the Stockman and for me and for our Police Department the sheriff's department is involved so that's a general rule it would not surprise me that you would have gotten some kind of response like you did they shouldn't tell you that there's no thank you sp so at some point um Scott realized on me and the other Consultants to use our professional judgment andr was not the appropriate party to call for a complaint regarding um pumping of a subject symp the into a wetland um I was on the property there was no evidence that there was a POS leading to a wetland or anywhere outside of a tank um I walk the property with the owner uh so the correct so the city adopts the mpca regulations which are the septic system rules right and accepts that responsibility as the enforcing party so I did call the mpca and work with Scott L on the best um action um you know we had no proof of this and the like I said I was on the site um pumping from a tank would have been very obvious um the mccormic tank Lids are actually buried two out of the three and so they would have had to you know dig obtain access to that a hose would have been very evident so then where did it come out that the DNR wouldn't come out if there wasn't hard proov don't know DNR don't and from the GetGo you told me that menp was supposed to be handling that menp only handles the cases pertaining to the construction of that se system in any detailed um you know um I guess like for instance if it's anything that's not visible for instance a brok con pain or because mpect even hired or even lined up Midwest sewer to come out and do the inspection no no I was working directly with Chris at midest so Chris is from Midwest se you say yeah Midwest sewer is a consultant with minp but if we go back to the process because we should get into who's inspecting someone else's tank based off of a neighbor that is complaining correct it should be the process is a complaint was filed we followed the same process we sent our planner out there to investigate it they investigated it the report back was there are no violations that are obvious to see we close the case and we moved on yeah well we went even further in this case we asked we asked the owner to pump um their tank because it hadn't been pumped in 10 years so understand that but it's like you're asking for what is the process we followed the process we came to a result there's data privacy act so the fact that you're asking when the neighbors are pumping their tanks is crazy so I'm trying to understand like what do you want us to do because it feels like we did we followed the same process that we went with other residents that have a and I actually I don't want to respond because I want to move on because we follow the process her city code how many how many years are supposed to be in between a uh setic it doesn't matter it doesn't it doesn't matter it doesn't so why is it in city code if it doesn't matter is your responsibility to maintain your septic systems if you have problems with it why is it in the city code if it doesn't matter okay that wasn't your complaint Mr f it wasn't written on the Complaint Form okay and Mr Mayor and your complaint was is as vague as what you are upset about on the complaint my complaint is big really did you provide any proof of that there wasn't proof I did see it person talking at a time so I I want to kind of wrap this up because I feel like we're back into the he said she he said he said and we went through the process we have a trained staff to do this we rely on their expertise we have a lawyer here saying we have data privacy so you may or may not get an update to your liking at all times and we're probably not going to debate how long it should take to pump a tanker how many years in between it should be so I'm trying to understand like how do we move on from this or what's the next step I guess you're okay with it I guess that's the next step I guess if we send our team out there and they they say they come back and say I don't see any issues and they're our team that we rely on and they have the education and the experience to do this I'm probably going to say I buy that Mr Mayor St um and just for councils and Mr K sake there's the city a city is not required to enforce their ordinance most of the time we well we operate on a complaint basis which we've already stated um but um member alers is correct in stating that at some point if we use our judgment and we decide this is it it's resolved to the extent um and secondly you know it's well there may or may not be there may or may not be do of violations out there in fact I know there are but because complaints AR received we don't look into them poliy and again we want to get to a system where like our neighbors are talking to one another saying hey can you do this differently or what's going on here so it doesn't have to come to the city council trying to be referee over Who's got what in their backyard so this went from a health issue to be pumping your septic the DNR this is alleged this is your perception of thought was going on right we sent Liz out there so this is so this goes from allegedly to a neighbor dispute just like that so you're the one that had the complaint we acted on the complaint we used our professional and her judgment and we close the complaint you're obviously not happy with that result and you've been not the result it's the process it's the same process that happened to you someone filed a complaint Liz came out there were some violations we've since changed that so that we can be more specific your complain to the resident or that came in was specific about septic we investigated that with a septic expert so again we have someone that's trained on our city code's trained ssbi exact all right so Mr Mayor do you want to argue or do you want to understand what the process is I because we can do both I'm just telling you she is our code enforcement person that was called out there to investigate someone pumping a septic with a sump pump and a hose coming out of the top of tanks that wasn't there Mr L so one one additional thing I'd like to add to that too it's on top of everything council member alers is talking about and and what Liz was able to do when she went out there to do the walk through is that uh I worked with the the said party and we they ended up coordinating with the third party septic system that has nothing to do with the city from outside the city came out and certified it and checked for everything that was out there and we got certification they pumped the system and there was no issues with the septic system even on top of everything else talk about I don't want that lost in the conversation and I think Sam your point that that the the complaint being uh pumping you wouldn't have to be a septic system professional to see if there was a hose if there was some pumping going on as indicated you would have to dig the ground to get to the tanks so as it not an inspection of the tanks and the system as much as the concern that was expressed that there's hoses dump pumping into a okay and that in the same respect when staff came out to your place and said yeah none of this is true you're fine they went out there and said we don't see evidence of of that the only difference is they brought the inoa county water and soil people with because they're subject matter experts in the area no subject matter experts in the area came out to that property if I'm if I'm understanding that correctly again because I don't think planner Stockman's a subject matter expert in that area she can look at the ground and see that there's a rock there sure but and and you wouldn't need to be a subject matter expert to see a hose or a pump or open tanks oh okay I mean that's significant difference from checking a septic system to the tanks are open and it looks like something's doing something right and I don't know when the syst was promp and what else they at those people are subject matter experts and they would have if there was a failed that would have been their obligation to tell the city and the home all right that's it I appreciate it went exactly how I thought it was going to go I appreciate the conversation thank you for your time than for coming here at Mond day a five that's wonderful anything else for me um you have anything else for us I this no I appreciate uh to clarify though is there I I know there might have been talk about quarterly or or what have you about issues that residents could potentially come up to a meeting or hold an individual Workshop that they might be able to ask ask a couple questions to the council is that is that a possibility still or no yeah c not something the council has resolved but Mr Mayor if there was something it would be and that would be addressed at a council meeting it would be be listed on the agenda that' be correct it is correct wonderful well even Mr there other business in front of the council I Mo the second J I said that