meeting dated uh July 13, 2026. If you would please rise for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Great. Thank you. And uh welcome. Right. Uh Lauren, you want to roll call? Council member Wy >> present. >> Council member Tradewell >> here. >> Mayor Rolf >> here. >> Council member West >> present. >> Council member Bray Johnson >> here. >> All right. Anybody have any announcements? >> Night, August 3rd. >> Fourth. >> Third or fourth? Tuesday. >> Tuesday. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Fourth. Yes. Okay. >> The fourth. >> Um, make sure that if you're going to host one that you register with the sheriff's department. Um the link I believe is on our website. >> Cool. >> Perfect. >> That's my announcement. Thank you. >> Uh the only announcement I have uh same as always that black book in the back has everything that we have in front of us. Uh it is the agenda with all the documents. You can also find it on our city website as well. All right. Setting of the regular agenda. I do know that we have an item to add and an item I believe to remove. Lauren >> uh to remove I would remove uh actually 11 consulting engineer. Uh the uh pay request is not ready for tonight. So that will come at a future meeting. Uh Chuck didn't have any major updates tonight. So no city engineer tonight. >> Okay. Then uh the cemetery discussion. I'm trying to figure out where we want to put that. We just want to put that under mayor council requests and updates or >> Yeah. So item B >> uh 13 B. Sure. >> Okay. All right. I look for a motion to approve. >> Motion to approve. >> Oh boy. >> I'll second it. >> I'll give John the first. >> Uh motion by council. Second by council member Wy. All in favor indicate by saying I. >> I. Opposed. Motion pass. 5 Z. uh public forum. This is the time if there's anyone here that would like to talk talk to us about something that is not on the agenda. This would be your time to come up. >> I'm guessing not. All right, we'll move on here. Approval of council minutes dated June 29th, 2026. >> Motion to approve. >> Motion by council member West, second by council member Bray Johnson. All in favor indicate by saying I. >> Post. Motion passes 5. Sheriff's report. Sorry. Dweller, come on up. Lieutenant Kn is absent tonight. So, >> vacation, I assume. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the city council, city staff, and citizens of Oak Grove. The following is a sheriff's report for the month of June 2026. It's kind of a lengthy uh highlighted call uh list here, but uh I'll uh abbreviate it so we can uh move on. If you have any questions, ask me about them. Um on uh June 9th on the in the 18600 block at Lake George Boulevard Northwest uh there was vandalism to work vehicles. Uh the victim had sustained multiple broken windshields over the course of uh couple months. On June 10th in the 4200 block of Sun Sunshine Drive Northwest, a traffic stop. A deputy ran a plate and information came back that it came back to another vehicle. Basically the plates were false. uh and the person had been evading paying their tabs. So, they were charged with gross misdemeanor tax evasion related to tab fraud. Uh on June 10th as well in the 200 block of Quinn Street Northwest, there was a warrant arrest. The deputy uh was called for a male hiding behind a pole barn. The deputy was familiar with this male and he had a warrant for a first-degree burglary and a fifth degree assault and was on probation. individual was arrested and transported to jail on the 13th of June in the 21300 block of St. Francis Boulevard Northwest. Two wild mustangs, you might have heard about this in the news. Um, you know, got a quite a bit of coverage. Two wild mustangs escaped off a fence and with the assistance of others and members of the Sherburn County mounted patrol, the horses were safely returned to the owners. On June 13th as well in the uh 2700 block of 20st Avenue Northwest, really close to here, a dump truck was stolen from the property. Owner still has the keys, so not sure how that was taken. Um, on the 14th of June, Lake George, a water rescue deputy was dispatched to a water rescue in the lake. A kayaker, a kayaker had tipped over and needed assistance. Deputy Jacobson went to the boat launch, spoke to the boater, a boater who was willing to allow him to use his boat and with the assistance of the boater. They helped the kayak back kayaker back to shore and they were fine. No medical assistance needed. On the 15th of June in the 21400 block of Rum River Boulevard Northwest, a deputy made a traffic stop and then made a uh fourthderee DWI arrest. And I take take that back. That was a single vehicle rollover crash. Um the woman who invol was involved um was uh impaired. On the 16th of June in the 600 block of Sims Road Northwest, a deputy attempted to stop a male on a bike because it was 1:00 a.m. and he had no lights or reflectors on his bike. The male fled on foot or kept biking. Um, another deputy was able to assist and the male hopped off his bike and then fled on foot. The individual was caught and arrested. The individual was also found to be in possession of methamphetamine. Uh the shocker person who fled was arrested and booked in jail um for fleeing uh by means other than a motor vehicle and also the fifth degree possession of a controlled substance. On the 21st of June uh at the intersection of Sims Road and Sycamore Street Northwest, uh a warrant arrest, a deputy observed a vehicle pulling into out of a construction site at 3:26 a.m. where previous thefts had occurred. The deputy noted the vehicle is pulling a trailer uh that was full of bike and construction equipment. The vehicle was stopped for an equipment violation. The driver was sub subsequently arrested on an equip or on an outstanding warrant. The deputies documented the items in the trailer uh in case the items were later reported as stolen. On the 26th of June in the 21900 block of Norway Street Northwest, a deputy made a warrant attempt or warrant arrest. A deputy on routine patrol ran a registration check of a vehicle along the roadway that came back to a revoked driver's license. The owner had a revoked driver's license. The deputy turned around on the vehicle which in turn increased its speed above the posted limit and failed to stop for a stop sign. The deputy was able to stop and identify the driver by ID card. The driver was revoked and had a felony warrant. The driver was arrested and transported to jail for that felony warrant. And then uh this has already been announced, but night toite is Tuesday, August 4th, and you can register uh council member Bray Johnson already talked about that. You can either register on your city website, correct? and then at the sheriff's office website. And then also right after that, on the 7th of August, the sheriff's office is hosting the annual cast fishing event at Lake George, and it's now open for registration on our sheriff's office website. Um, some quick stats I'll throw out there. Uh, for the month of June, we had two thefts, uh, one assault, two damage to properties, uh, five personal injury accidents, which is seems like a high number, and then 11, uh, property damage accidents. Uh 36 medicals, 19 animal complaints, 16 alarm calls, two felony arrests, one gross misdemeanor arrest, four misdemeanor arrests, one DWI arrest, one drug arrest, one domestic assault arrest, and three warrant arrests. On top of that, we had uh Noa County Sheriff's Office conducted 187 traffic stops. And of those traffic stops, uh 40 traffic arresters citations were were issued. Any questions? >> Sounds busier for Oakrove than normal. >> It it is. It did seem like a busy month looking at the staff. Yes. >> It's like good police work all around. >> Yeah. >> I don't know what position you hold there right now, but we all support traffic enforcement. You tell Lieutenant Knox all the time. So, keep it up. >> Yeah, we'll do. I'll pass that along. >> Unless it's me. No, just I'm >> Well, as you can see, they're exercising some sound discretion with 187 stops. No, they do a great job. 30 citations. So, >> they do a great job. >> And the citations actually doubled. >> Yes. You know, >> yes, they are the highest uh this for a month this year. >> So, they must have given out a bunch of warnings and it's time to give them a real one. So, >> and I do see that we looking through the stats, we do have one of our newer deputies uh working out there. So, that is always they're always gung-ho to >> make some traffic for us. So, >> I've seen him at Bills. He looks like he's a kid. >> Yeah, I believe that's uh Zack Schwagger you're talking about. So Toddis is the chief of St. Francis Police Department. That's his father. >> Oh, really? >> Yes. >> That's good. >> I'll tell him. Nice work. >> Nice work. >> Any questions? >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for your time. >> Thanks for coming out. >> Yeah. Appreciate you. >> All right. Public hearing. >> Really? like number nine, ordinance 2026-09, amend the 2026 fee schedule. Most of this is related to the uh building building department fees that we've reviewed a couple times. Council member Wy and myself did meet with uh representatives of Rum River Consultants after their last presentation. Uh so what you see before you is their proposal. I did highlight a couple other fees in the fee schedule since we were amending the fee schedule tonight. I can point those ones out here in a second. Uh under licensing, there is a gambling premise permit is what we currently call it. $100. The city cannot actually charge gambling premise permits. we can only charge a gambling premise investigation fee. Um, so I think we need to uh retitle that to what we're actually doing. Um, so there's no fee increase there. It's just the uh the title or the name of the the fee that we're charging. So that one and then um I highlighted this one, but there's nothing you can do on it again tonight. The park dedication fee in lie of land. Uh it's currently at $2,300 per lot. Remember, the park commission wants to increase that to $3,800, but there is a a study or some other steps the city is going to have to do before they can actually vote to um increase that fee. So, I'm just highlighting it knowing that the park commission has asked you to increase that, but there's some work the city has to do before we're able to actually bring that for you, bring that forward. Um, and then one other one, a commercial industrial site plan review. Uh for some reason this isn't on our fee schedule. Uh but this is one that we've seen a fair amount of applications for. So we need to add it on there um as its own uh fee. This is for a new building on Tamarak or on Viking or seven. You know, we don't have a lot of these, but we've had a handful in the last couple years here. They need to have their own category on the fee schedule. So proposing that at $500 consistent with the commercial application. What what all does that include then in that fee for that $500? >> The uh all of the staff time involved in it outside of the consultants and then also the uh the cost of preparing notices and mailing those uh the the legal publication for publishing that. Um >> so is it just a review plan basically or it doesn't include any inspections or anything like that? >> No, this is not a building. This is a on the planning end on the front end when they're making an application to construct a new building. The code requires all new buildings in the uh general business and limited industry to go through this commercial site plan review process. So when they're looking to build a new building, that's the application they're making. The other one I highlighted here that you could act on is the sewer base rate per month in the ponds. I think we're going to talk about this tonight. Maybe now, maybe later. Let's talk about it now. >> Maybe both. >> Yeah. Um, the city did sell the ponds land recently, so I know that there council want to have some discussion about the proceeds of of that sale. So, >> right. So, I've been Hey, some of you guys might have the same exact idea, but um just make sure I don't forget to do the public hearing. >> Yeah. Yeah. We got to open a public hearing for this whole thing. Um so the the land up in the ponds the old wastewater um land there sold closed sold it for $180,000 um I think that's about where it's at. Maybe there a couple fees or something but 180,000 we've been um the wastewater accounts uh got an inter fund loan from the lake George if I can get all this straight. um sewer fund uh what was that six years ago? Something like that. Five, six, seven years ago. >> 20. >> Okay. >> Uh which they've been paying back um uh monthly. That total Lauren, what was that again? About five five or six dollars. >> Uh 533 per month per user. >> Yeah. So their their base rate for I'm trying not to confuse you guys. Hopefully you're following along. for the ponds sewer is 3816, but that included that $5 and change to cover that loan. So, what I'm proposing is we take the 180,000. Technically, it's already been deposited into their sewer fund, which could clearly, you know, we could do things with that. But what I would propose is we transer transfer the f funds of the balance loan to the Lake George account. Pay that off. That makes that account full and then remove this $5 and some change from the base rate. So it take it from like $38 till it's like 32 and some change because again that portion of it was simply to pay for the loan that's now paid off. Basically, that's what we said we were going to do when we did that deal that the money of the sale of the property was going to take care of that. So, >> and we never really voted. I think the consensus was that's what we were going to do. >> That was my expectation. >> Yeah. And I feel if we >> had them pay money to connect and >> do all the stuff we did up there, they had to pay. We should at least, you know, make it as whole as we can with the proceeds of this. So that would take their rate again from 38 and some change to I think it was 32 and some change just for >> the base monthly rate >> and to pay off the Lake George account. There's still going to be >> a surplus there um because it's not 180 we owe that. But we can figure that on a different day. But this at least instantly reduces their base rate and makes the um Lake Georgia account whole again. I agree with that. Y >> just a question. Weren't we under or weren't weren't they under? And wasn't Abdel recommending an increase up in St. Francis because we were coming up short? The only reason why I asked we go and take it away and then all of a sudden next year we got to go up 10 to cover their loss. I just want to make sure that we're not I'd rather keep >> I think I know what you're talking about is because I originally kind of proposed this. Hey, let's just see if we can kind of just keep it even. But I but I've thought a lot about it over the last couple months and for transparency purposes I'm like you've paid your loan off. >> So now if the rate goes up as in um the usage fee goes up next year which it's going to it might take you right back up to there. But I think for transparency purposes your loan's paid off. It's taken care of and we can only do what we can do with St. Francis. Right. So that might be what you're referring to. But there still is because what war what was the number 180 but it was like 120 or 130 or something we owed Lake George fund. >> Yeah. And it was a little bit less than 180. There were some fees that we had to pay out of that. So it's about 180,000 at the end of 20 24 >> 24 or 25 >> it was like 150,000. It's about 30,000 a year. >> So 120 Yeah. So, you could easily say there's 50,000 more that we can talk about at another time. Maybe >> we can reduce something else or maybe they just need that money for something else for repairs or whatever. But we could talk about that another time. >> And that interim loan is what we used to pay to have the stuff hauled out, the rubber to be >> it was like 301,000. Yeah. Okay. >> And so they're not getting the whole 3001 back, but I I don't want to speak for everyone, but I think we all were kind of on the same page. Whatever we get on this land, they should get up to at least that 300 >> 600,000. Maybe you look at it differently, but so that's what that's all about. Again, to simplify it, reducing their monthly rate in the ponds, paying off the fund, the inter fund loan to the Lake George sewer, making that And we still have probably 50,000 in proceeds that we can talk about another time. >> Yeah. >> I don't know when we going to vote on that or how that >> Well, I would say you can you can since we got the fee schedule here tonight, I would take action on that part to reduce the base rate by $5.33 per month, which would bring it down to 32 83 per month. And to keep this clean, I say you may either make that effective on the next billing, not in the middle of one. Um, so either >> August, maybe say effective August 1st. >> Okay. >> For that one. >> And then I suppose with the transfer we could talk about when we do the ponds. >> Yeah. And then I would prepare an actual resolution um to pay off probably to pay off the loan and the other information. I can do that probably at the next meeting. Well, we can talk about that part when we get to the points and see if everybody agrees. >> This is relevant to the uh the fee schedule that's before you tonight. So, >> I you can take action on that one tonight. >> Okay. So, $5 and some change per >> $5.33. >> Yeah. >> It's not a huge amount, but it's something. So, >> but that's a separate item than the ordinance for the public hearing. Correct. >> But it's in the the rates. >> I highlighted it. >> Yeah. It's in the rates, but but we're going to change that outside of that, right? >> Coming back with a resolution. I mean, you could I think you could take action on it tonight if you wanted to because I did highlight it as something that the council could discuss as part of the fee schedule amendment >> because then we only have to do the one publication too. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. That so that's that is a benefit of doing it tonight. Then we're not doing another ordinance and another publication for another fee schedule amendment for one item. >> Well, what if you don't agree with a bunch of other stuff that's in that deal and then >> you know what I mean, but you agree with this? Well, you could pick and choose which you're >> what you're amending here. You don't have to amend it as presented. You can make modifications. >> Okay. >> So, when we make the motion, we could >> Yeah. Okay. >> Because there are a couple things I think we're coming up here that we all agree with. So, um All right. So, moving on from the sewer. You want to continue down there, Lauren? >> Uh my computer's frozen. The rest of it was the the the building code stuff uh which we've reviewed a couple times. Um the changes since Rum River was last year was the gra was the phasing in of fees for the technology fee and like this can be its own and the other part can be its own >> because I think this is where the issue is. But >> so they have a two three-year phase in for the technology fee and also on the uh maintenance permit of the septic system subdivision 14. Uh they're proposing $15 no technology service charge for this year. And then with that, they've agreed not to come back for any increases with with the exceptions of a few extenduating circumstances over the next couple years. >> I I think maybe what we're I'm going to do the public hearing first so we don't forget about that and then I'm kind of thinking maybe we could I don't know kind of break it down to two different things. But all right, I open this up for public hearing. There's anybody here that would like to talk about this? No, >> I can run out there if you like. >> All right, I will uh close this public hearing then. I guess it was started at 6:27 and ended at 6:27. Um, with no comments from the public. All right. My thought is here, and I don't I'm trying not to get us too confused here, Lauren. I'm guessing, and correct me if I'm wrong, up to the building inspector stuff if maybe we could vote on all of that and then maybe we could do the building part as a second one because I think it's going to be way too messy because I I've got to believe there's more people going to be concerned about this than than the other stuff. >> Um, so that being said, if somebody wants to Well, is there any further discussion before we get to the building? the other items. >> So, the amended 2026 fee schedule has nothing to do with the building inspectors fees >> for this first motion. >> For this first motion, >> but it has to do with all the other stuff, the ponds, those couple other amendments. >> I'd make that motion then, but which you want to use 202609 for that. >> That is the ordinance that's before you tonight, >> right? >> This is all just going to be one amendment, >> right? >> You might not approve all this, but whatever you approve is going to be under 2609. We'll just amend 2609 to reflect what the council does to what their action is. >> What page is that on West that you're >> So we don't want to make a motion that we want >> 2209. >> Uh it's 13 of 64. >> 13. >> So what you're saying, Lauren, you'd rather just wait and do all of it at one time? >> No, that's not what I'm saying. You can make two mo motions here, but >> but it's going to be under the same ordinance. >> Be under the same ordinance. We're not doing two ordinance, two publications. >> Okay. Well, >> I will I will Okay, thank you. >> I'll second Paul's uh >> All right. So, this is again is all the items not including the building inspector uh section we're about to come upon. So, there was a motion by was that you >> Paul and Mike? >> Motion by Council Member Tradewell, second by Council Member Wy. Is there any further discussion? >> And again, just to be clear, this is to pass the what we discussed about the ponds and the fee schedule there. Correct? >> Yes. >> All right. I'm on board. >> All right. All in favor keep saying I. >> I >> opposed. All right. Motion passes five to zero. >> Now for the second part of that. That was a good way to do it. >> Basically be appendix B. Everything listed after appendix B. >> So building this one off first. First place. Mike. appreciate you spending the time in Lauren with uh Rum River trying to kind of navigate through this. I'll be honest, the more I read it, the more frustrated I get with it. >> Um I had always thought and I know some of these are simple things. These are just things kind of jumping out at me that a pool is like $150 for a permit. >> If you do a 20 by40 pool, it's $840 for a permit. Um the technology fee, I'm going to tell you flat out, I will not I will not vote in favor of this if there's a technology fee period. I look at it as a rum river game. This is the product that they offered and this is a product they want to use. I realize they're trying to kind of make it like that third party that now you pay them quarterly and all that, but yet I'm not saying you have to use this. And I was fine with saying if if the public wants to use it and they want to pay the fee, >> that's fine. >> Can I can I make a comment on that? Just because because that did come up at the meeting and stuff. >> Um the way it was kind of sold to us, there were three ways you could report that. One way or another, it's going to be in there, whether you hide it someplace or whatnot. And we thought this was the most transparent for the residents just because they would see this was a fee that they put on and stuff versus the other ones. Um, and that's kind of why we went with that choice to go there. Um, and I agree with you 100%. I didn't like it either. But then there was discussion also in the fact that, well, if we do paper, they're going to be paying for this anyway because then we're going to have to run copies of it and put it into an electronic system anyway. And that's kind of the whole problem with with uh dealing with they they have good reasons for why they're doing things as a business, but it's not kind of the way we wanted it was. But it did come up. We did discuss that and that's why it came off the way it did just to be transparent a little better, you know. >> And I can see I can see that, but I can also see I keep adding this like paying tax on or fee on a fee. >> I hear you. I go on the airplane, I get so annoyed. There's this extra thing and this extra thing and just charge me what you need to charge me. >> Well, you go to a restaurant, just bury the 3% in the cost of your food. I don't want to see it afterwards. But I feel like they came to us like this is the an allaround service that they can provide us. Um and now it's like well wait a bit but if you want to use that you need to pay extra but yet we're not going to allow you not to use that. Well then just charge me what you need to charge me. Um I think what they're doing themselves is and I'm not saying we should do this. I'm not saying we should but start our own building department here and use their software >> you know. >> Well we could. >> Yeah. Well, we had our room before and pushing it for years. >> That's the way they're marketing it. They're marketing it so people can do that as this is a subscription, right? >> So, they get you either if you're working with them or not, >> right? But the I don't know. I have a problem with that. >> The cost of business. >> I have a problem again with like your average pools $840 for a permit >> um >> to make sure the dirt's hard enough or something. I got a problem with >> septic stuff when we're talking some things in here are thousands of dollars and I'm worked up over 30 bucks, but it's still kind of to me it's the >> you're now going to make me do this at $20 and I got to pay a $10 fee and I realize what Mike said. He's trying to be transparent which I can respect that and they have said five this year and 750 and 10 but either way we're we're basically there. So, I'd like to see more flat fees that actually seem reasonable. I just don't know like a pool. I could pick a lot of these apart, >> but that one just kind of probably because I have one. It just kind of came to mind, wait a minute, >> because at first when I looked at I was like, $40? That seems kind of cheap for a permit for a pool. And then I realized, oh no, that's per square foot. >> So, I know we put a lot of pressure on the the deck and it looks like he's kind of worked on that a little bit, but even 76 675 for a deck to me seems high. >> I paid 1,200 for my first house. >> But that's my thoughts on it. I realize this is another one of those topics you need to have some type of a building inspector. If not, I'd probably just vote to get rid of it all together. But >> I have another question about a different subject. I agree with you on this, Weston. Um it's about the street lights um on what it says Milestone Night and No Railside um at 33 per year is one of those neighborhoods where Evergreen is off of um Sims. I forget what the name of those over there, but a neighbor over there contacted me about that fee and that they pay $33 a year and they have eight new neighbors and the cost hasn't got down, it's just maintained 33. But if they're cost sharing, shouldn't that cost go down? >> Did they add more lights for the new houses? >> No, no more lights, but there's new houses. So >> it's a separate development, >> you know. >> Say that again. >> Those street lights are specific to developments. They at the time those there's not a lot of developments in the city that have them, but those that do were required by the city and there were development agreements that required those lights to be installed as part of the development. And then the costs were split amongst the people in that development. So I know what you're talking about the eight lots that were added, but it's not the same development. It's a new development. There was no requirement that they add street lights. They're not technically in the development that the other people are. >> But don't they have to drive down Wintergreen to get to it? Because I was contacted by somebody that those homes are in his backyard. So I believe they have to go past his house to get to that development and he's paying it. So why aren't they? >> Because it's a different development. Even if they have to drive by the light doesn't make a difference. >> I mean is that >> without looking at it? But are specific to the development >> milestone. >> Whatever those names are, it is specific to those. >> Yeah, it is fair because that's the development that they that's was the requirement then >> for that development. >> Okay. So So even though those new homes drive past that light to get to theirs, they don't have to pay that 33 because even though they're using that street, that development is a different name even though they go past those lights. because that really doesn't make sense for the other neighbors >> and because those neighbors have approached me. I'm bringing that up. >> I think it would be a separate discussion than here tonight. Um if this council wants to require those other >> residents to pay the street utility fund. You may be able to do that. I'd have to look into it. Was not prepared to address that tonight. >> Okay. Awesome. I because I wanted to bring it up and I knew that that was on our fee schedule. So, thank you. We can talk about at a later date. I just um >> that's good. >> Need to answer to him. >> Well, >> at least I want to. >> Yeah, but yeah, >> different night. >> Mhm. >> It's the way it is. It might not be fair and maybe there's something we can do, but probably just can't do it right this other development probably have the same uh argument once you start saying you're going to pay for these on the other side for >> then what I would do is I'd say put lights in and then we'll split the cost of all the lights and guess what? your price will stay exactly the same. >> So, >> uh, this is government. I don't think the price would stay >> Oh, it probably go up for everyone. >> Exactly. >> Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to try to answer the question as best I could. >> So, back to the um the building inspector. I guess like I say, that's my two cents. There's it's another one of those challenging topics tonight that I don't know if there's a good solution, but those are just a couple things as I look through it that just kind of irritated me, but Paul has his hand up. >> I was trying to be polite. >> Um, it's if we don't go with them, we go back to the state. They use the same fees for the commercial stuff as what they're going to charge. I mean, we really don't have a choice this year, do we? I mean, in all honesty, whether we like it or not. Well, you can deny the uh all the increases and uh bring it back to him, but then he could look and say, "Well, then I just can't do the inspections because I can't make any money at it, right?" >> So, then we might have a whole new decision to have to make. So, it just >> that was the problem with me and Lauren talking to them and >> they made points. It cost us a certain amount to get a truck and a car and somebody on the road and >> all that and >> who am I to talk about, you know, all the little, you know, intricacies of his business, >> right? And unless we went through what it would cost for a vehicle and employee and everything, >> but there is an option though. We could say no and and maybe they say, "Okay, we'll leave it at that." I mean, we don't know what they would say. Um, they're pretty adamant about their costs and whatnot, though. say, "Sure." I don't know that they would give up. >> Without saying it, I thought he pretty much said >> if you either cuz the mayor asked specifically, >> so this is it or we got some negotiating and he's like, "There is no negotiating. You either do this or you can go somewhere else to get your services." I'm just saying if we did this at least it gives us three years it's locked and we can start looking and talking about what we've been talking about and maybe it's time to pull some things back in or we might find out like Abdul that it's still benefiting the community or our citizens. So, I'm I was just saying reality is >> I don't like it, but there's just some things. >> Well, make a motion. Let's >> I'll make a motion to approve. >> The thing is, too, you could pick one or two things that you think are really awful and just say, "Hey, we want to leave this here and send it to him and see what he says." >> There's so many though. >> If you agree. Yeah. I mean, it just depends. And if there's one or two that really stick out. Yeah. If you try to rewrite the whole thing, then I think we're just going to be butting our heads up. >> Part of the issue is got 30 cities or 20 cities that you're trying to, you know, keep them all consistent because all of a sudden we he tells us, "Ah, we'll lower that one." Well, guess what? Other cities are now going to come say, you know, that I'm not saying that that's right, but I'm sure that's his angle. But >> yeah. All right. Well, there is a motion on the table here. Uh motion by council member Treywell. Uh and this would be for uh >> accepting a new fee schedule. >> Yes. Okay. for three years with the exception of a couple things >> events basically CPI super high you know really >> bad at economic times >> if it goes low we get basically >> I will second the uh >> okay motion by council member Treyall second by council member wy is there any further discussion >> hearing none all in favor indicate by saying I >> I you have to >> no I I made the motion for it. I don't have to agree with I just made a motion so we could have a vote. >> Oh. >> So, just to clear up the confusion. >> Um, you were an I and then opposed. We use the same sign. >> I >> Are you opposed or against? >> I said I >> for opposed or against? >> Against or for? >> I'm for. >> Okay. >> And then you were against Mike or you were for it. >> You haven't asked who was nay yet. >> Yeah, you did. Did you say that? I missed it. Then >> he and I agree. >> Yes, I am against >> always said we should have our own building official and >> I agree with that too. >> So the motion fails >> to three. >> I have a clarification that we need to ask our lawyer next time. I don't believe you can second something and then vote against it. >> Just pointing that out. >> I think that's correct. I think if you second the motion that's an automatic >> You are says who? >> Korn did that to me once. >> Yeah, we used to do that once in a while. It says who? >> Robert's rules are order. >> No, I should have >> I should have made the motion and it should have failed. It should have failed without support. >> So, >> we just voted >> Weston and me, >> right? >> To not have a city inspector. So, I guess we're not building houses. >> Can I change my vote? >> Not going not going with this >> this fee schedule. >> This fee schedule. >> Yeah. Can I change my vote? >> What I will say, Lauren, you can put it on the record. I mean, I guess the whole thing is on the record. Even though I don't like it to buy time, I probably would have supported Paul, but I'm not going to agree to a technology fee period. So, um I don't know where that leaves us, but >> probably uh for them to come back and revise some things and work with us. Maybe our liaison can >> Didn't three of you didn't three of you vote in favor of this? >> No. >> No, we voted against. >> Oh, you voted against? Oh, okay. And >> and I would like to vote against. >> So you voted for it, right? >> Yeah, she did vote for it. >> So So all I'm saying is >> she was for it before she was against it. >> All I'm saying what you're saying >> was the inspector, >> right? >> I was against it before. >> Even though I don't agree with really any of this, I could have at least voted for it. Buy us some time, figure it out. But because of the technology fee, that's the reason why I'm just So >> I voted against it because I'm not for any fee increased at this point for our city. >> Period. >> No, I get that. But if your air condition went out tonight, I'm not for buying a new one, but I'd buy one because I'm kind of forced to or otherwise I have to deal with the consequences. I think there's consequences with this >> deal with your wife, but not talking about >> but this was just on the fee and stuff. So theoretically the fees would all stay the same as they were before this vote. >> So I mean there are >> we're not we're not getting rid of all the other fees. >> He won't continue his service at at the >> certain point but with notice and all that type of stuff. So it's not like you lose everything tonight. >> It's a short notice too. >> Well we don't know that because there are some fees that because of the way we voted are not >> I would assume not going to decrease. >> Right. Um, so it's still you have some that would have come down, some that would have gone up and and uh Yeah. >> Yeah. He sold us on there's a lot of stuff going down, but there's still a lot of stuff that was going >> up, >> right? >> So, and really >> there still like $400,000 worth of business to Rum River. >> Yeah. I don't think you should balance it that way anyway. I mean, if a fee should come down because you're charging it too much, it should just come down. >> Come down, >> you know. And the same thing with going up. If the cost is that cost us all this, we do these other things maybe we didn't do in the past. It should go up, you know. I mean, it shouldn't be, well, we lowered three of them, but we raised >> and just because they say that I should charge this much, the state says I should charge this much, so I'm going to. Right. >> You don't have to do that. >> Right. Right. >> Exactly. Right. We can do >> Well, moving on here. We are to the consent agenda. Uh Lauren, if you wouldn't mind putting that on the >> Um ju just as a reminder, my vote did not carry. Oh, so we don't have to do anything. No other vote, right? >> No. >> Okay. >> Um All right, Lauren, you mind putting the consent agenda up? There's an uh five items here. >> I'm going to pull a >> Yeah, I figured you would. Um, we're going to vote on all of these in one motion unless someone from the audience, council or staff, uh, pulls an item. I figure John, you'd be pulling A. Uh, I'm going to pull D and E. >> D and E. Okay. So, D and E. Mike, >> then we were going to >> the cannabis. >> Yes. Just table that one. >> Okay. Um, >> oh, really? >> It's one. I'll make the motion for C. >> Well, yeah, but C. >> Yeah, because that's part of B. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah. >> Oh, >> so I guess we're pulling everything here. So, uh, Council Member West, uh, you pulled item A. >> I pulled A because there is an invoice from my company, Integrated Protection Systems, who is doing the, uh, low voltage security work on the new city hall. We were the selected contractor for that and it's for $67,000. Um, and again, IPS has been doing work with the city prior to me being part of uh council and uh I just wanted to make be total transparent with everybody. That's why I am pulling a >> I'll make a motion to approve claims and accounting. >> I'll second that and I would like to add to it. Um, IPS has always given us good bids and uh people should be aware of that. It has nothing to do with Mr. West being on the council. He's always got good stuff. >> Uh so motion by council member Tradewell, second by council member Wy. And I would also add to to Mike. Um this was a bidding process too. So it's not just that we chose him hire John the council. So all in favor by saying I. >> I opposed. Extension. >> I. >> All right. zero or a four to zero to one. All right. Um then I guess just items B and C. I guess I'd make a motion just to table those two items. >> Second. Yeah. >> Motion by myself, second by council member Tradewell. All in favor to keep saying I. >> I motion passes 5 to zero to table those two items. And then uh council member Wy you have item D and E. Yeah, I bring these up. This is uh for anybody out there uh an appointment to deputy city clerk by two individuals. Uh Lauren, I think I know the answer to that, but I'd just like you to explain who these are and where they're why they're being is is it a promotion? Is it new hirees? That type of stuff. Uh, as you remember when I took on the city clerk title year or so ago, the idea was not for me to do the job or all of it was to delegate out to other staff, city staff to help with those with those duties. Um, and specifically, uh, there's an immediate need for this because of elections. Uh, as the city clerk, I'm the head of elections. I have to be the filing officer for uh accepting can affidavit of candidacy for mayor and council. Uh this allows them to be able to do those in my absence or if I'm not available. Um and also to assist with elections. Uh which we are in the middle of an election, statewide election. We have a primary coming up and this is big increase in workload to myself and city staff. It's an operations uh group here. >> Okay. And these are two people that we already have on staff, right? They're just being promoted to a different position. >> Ariana Gross and Jackie Coleman both are on staff here. You may remember Jackie did go to a limited uh position months ago, >> but she has agreed and has been helping out with elections and working around staff time off and stuff. They're both excellent employees. >> Um and a big help. >> Good. And I know them by their first names, not their last. So that's why I was like, are these new people or not? Or and I didn't think so. I But uh anyway, okay, with that, um I'll make a motion to approve both of them. >> Second. >> All right. Motion by Council Member Wy, second by Council Member West. All in favor by saying I >> opposed. Motion passes 5 to Z. Uh consulting engineer, we remove that. So, we are now to code enforcement. We're under city administrator updates. I don't know. Looks like maybe we're making some headway here. So, I guess that's good. I don't know if anybody has any questions or comments. Guess we just move on to the >> I could just one related to that. At the last meeting, our city attorney was here, civil city attorney, uh to address the 22730 Cedar Drive uh nuisance abatement. Uh we did send notice to the uh property owner after the last meeting. Um and we've tried uh we sent a certified mail and I don't believe they I don't believe they've received the letter yet because they have not picked it up, but we did attempt to deliver that to them a couple times. Um so in that letter was the notice that they have until August 1st to bring it into compliance. If they wanted to appeal to the council, they could do that tonight, but they had to let me know by Friday. Obviously, none of that has occurred. So, the city is moving forward with the uh abatement process on that on that parcel. >> So, the court order still stands even if they don't sign or pick up. That's just a notice that that's what the time is for working with the city. That's a legal question. >> Where's Joe? >> I'm kind of I think that's how it would work and stuff, but >> I don't think that >> it's up to you where we're at with it. If there are certain things we have to do, we will do them. But that's that's where it currently stands as of today. No contact for the property owner. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> So, what I have to say doesn't really fall under code enforcement per se. Uh it relates um lately I've been driving through the city in the evenings just uh taking a ride uh driving around different streets and uh just looking at our city and I am very proud to be uh an Oakrove citizen. 99% of the properties are immaculate. I mean, beautiful homes, lawns taken care of, people have trailers, they have, you know, motor homes, things like that. Put away nicely. People wave when you drive by. Just very nice city to live in. Uh, stark contrast to some of our neighbors. Um, and I I just wanted to say that I'm proud about that. And when we're talking about code enforcement, it is a very small fraction of people that are out there that not doing the right thing by their neighbors. And we need to do the right thing way up here. Uh need to do the right thing by getting these people into compliance because it does ruin that landscape, that picture when you drive down a street and everything is beautiful and a bomb went off and that affects the people around them. So I think we need to do our diligence and continue to do what we've started doing here. Um and um we I think we've come a long way in that regard. So I just wanted to make that point. >> I agree with you 100%. Um those it's not a majority of the properties, it's a few of the properties that are just just over the top. It's >> Yeah, I always envision driving through our city and two acre two and a half acre a nice view, you know, and just pleasant until like you hit a certain house and Wow. >> He did he did forget one thing. The reason he's out driving around more is he's driving a Ford now and he loves it. >> All right, >> moving on. >> Did he just get paid by Ford to >> I'll let you know. I'll give you some >> I would agree with everything you guys just said. The only thing I would like to mention is we have Lauren what 3,000 homes in the city >> and we have 33 active cases. So it's such a like you said it's a very small percentage and when we started this um administrative citation thing which it's got to be what 8 10 12 months ago now. >> Yeah. Over a year ago. >> Yeah. The people are very concerned that online is turned into an HOA and all this. We've issued five administrative citations according to the report. So um I think I think we're doing good. But again it is nice to be neighborly and take care of your stuff. So >> yeah, I'm proud to be a resident of the city. I mean, it's >> one note on those five that have been issued. I think four of the five still remain out of compliance. They've reached the max fine. I think the city has to give some direction on what we want to do with those. I say I think one of them is all close to being in compliance, but the other four have made no progress since reaching that max pine level. So does the city want to keep issuing administrative citations? Do they want to go the criminal route now or uh the civil route with the nuisance abatement similar to what we're doing on 22730 Cedar Drive? I don't know that I need an answer tonight, but those are >> four that they've reached the max fines, but they haven't also brought the property. >> How long does it take to get to that max? >> 30 days, >> depending on what the infractions are. I mean, it's >> Are we communicating? Are they communicating? Uh we are communicating because we've tried to collect a couple times uh from them >> but they're not communicating. >> I don't >> it's like how I >> at least three of them are not communic >> well the administrative citations if you remember was just a tool it wasn't a fix all so we might still have to use some of these other avenues but >> I would assume we would What is the maximum? >> Depends on what the offense is is and the number, but you know, it's >> it's very punitive like a hundred bucks a day or 200 bucks a day or 300 bucks a day depending on how many. >> So basically between two and three,000 most of these reached these people willing to just have that go to their taxes. >> Some people just don't care. Right. Unfortunate part is the city will work with them, but you got >> Well, I wouldn't give any of it back. It's a two-way. No, I don't mean money. I mean like, you know. >> Yeah. Well, yeah, we'll work with them all the time. Give them time. We We've done that how many times. >> As long as you're communicating, that is the key. >> Yeah. We're not going to send a a fine if you're working. >> There are two that we stayed the fines and one brought that into compliance and the other one I think is very close. So, there's two examples that started to incur them and did actually >> and that's exactly what we wanted those to do, >> right? All right. Anything else with code enforcement? >> No, not on code enforcement. >> All right. Uh, the ponds sale. That's I I pretty much talked about all that already, but I think unless you had something to add, Lauren, this is where whether or not we can do it tonight or you got a bigger resolution or whatever. I would just like to have which I think everyone agreed to have whatever the balance is of the the loan to have transferred into the Lake George. So, if we can do it tonight, great. If you got to bring something back, at least we all know. I think that's >> I think you could take action on it tonight. I would just have the resolution drawn up. I mean, you've basically made a decision on it. So, I would just give it an resolution number. >> 119 tonight. >> That' be 119. >> Yeah. >> Is that what it is? >> Uh, we could actually give it 118 because we removed that. >> Okay. >> So, it could be 118. >> Okay. Well, I'll make a motion to uh approve paying off the loan to the Lake George uh sewer system with the money the funds that come from the ponds land sale. >> Second. >> So motion by council member WY, second by council member West. Um and again, Lauren, do we have to be so specific that it's already in that account or was that clear enough? >> No, it's the transfer. Okay. All right. >> Transfer. >> Uh all in favor indicate by saying I. I >> opposed. Motion passes 5-0. >> Great. >> You're up. >> Uh just a couple items. Uh parks commission is meeting this Wednesday, two days from now uh to talk about Veterans Memorial. Uh it's going to be a work session. So basically out on the site looking at it, discussing it. I did post a quorum of the council. I think I've heard back from four of the five council members. Um, so six o'clock Wednesday night uh for for parks commission meeting. Um, let me know if you're going to attend or you don't have to. I posted it so you're good to show up. >> Okay. >> Um, planning commission meets Thursday the next night. Um, we have uh a minor subdivision with a variance for Mr. Farah and then uh there's a new building being constructed on Tamarak in the industrial. >> I saw that going up. >> Yep. So those are the two public hearings uh for applications. But then there are three public hearings for uh ordinance amendments. One of which is the uh minimum lot size to go from 2 to 2.5 acres. One the council directed the planning commission to uh take action on recently again. Um the other one is to increase the size of the accessory dwelling units minimum or I'm sorry maximum square footage from 750 to 850. Uh and then also the um minimum uh main floor area of a of a build of a dwelling. Uh and then there's um bunch of sketch plans uh some additional ordinance discussion, interuse permits for home occupations, off streetet parking and I think some landscaping requirements for new homes and then update on the plan lengthy agenda. This will be the first meeting with new chair as well for this meeting. Good. Good breakin form. Not good breakin form. >> Yeah. No, he'll do good. >> Yeah, he'll be good. >> Then, uh, the next meeting we'll start the budget process. So, it'll be budget work session number one um before the the next meeting, July 27th. >> Lauren, how we uh >> five o'clock. >> How we kind of looking at that? Uh we gonna >> line item everything or are you going to come in with uh a budget and just kind of look for us to look through it and see if there's things that we want to change or what's your feeling for how we're going to go about that? >> Uh typically what we do is we present the the increases or the large increases that we see. We give an overview of those. Um we don't have the tax data from ana county yet. We'll have that for the next work session in August. Um, you know, I've already uh brought up a couple things that are in there. You know, one of those is a full-time fire chief. So, we have put that in there for as a discussion uh item for the council. Uh we did also apply for a grant uh to fund that position. We'll know in September, I believe. So, um outside of that, we know we got an increase in the sheriff's contract. Um we're still working through some of the other stuff and then um working with Abdo capital improvements capital improvement plan looking out further you know the full replacement value or I'm sorry the full replacement the useful life of all of our assets so it's you know up to 20 years for some of those major items and how much do we need to put away each year to fund that when it comes due um so I think we're um the CIP will be in a better place this year in terms of line item we typically haven't done that. I mean, we'll provide you with the line item B budget, but we try to focus on the things that are big ticket items. >> You have meetings with your staff like Matt and that already, right? I mean, you kind of go through what you budgeted last year. He's looking at what he needs this year, what was spent off the CIP. So, that's your first run at it usually, right? And you come in with that. >> We did that about three weeks ago. Okay. Now ABDO is um you know compiling all that uh anticipation for the budget work session at the end of the month. >> So I don't know what the number is yet. Hopefully soon at least as a very preliminary number. >> You'll be able to provide us with a general increased percentage of what you're asking for per department though. Correct. So public works budget for this next fiscal is going to be 3% over last year's budget. >> Yep. I don't recall if we present that in the first work session, but certainly in the ones after that when we start getting a full budget there. Yes. >> Yeah. That I mean I don't need it in the first one, but that's something that I want to be looking. >> Well, it raises flags at least, you know, to ask the question if it's up 10%. Why? >> We do provide all that information every year. might not be in the first meeting, but it does come at all the other work sessions. If there's something the council would like, please let me know >> ahead of time. >> And there's money for tearing this building down in our bond that we had for the new building. >> Correct. The bond proceeds there was money budgeted >> 250 building. >> We having that meeting soon. >> I thought Matt, we're waiting on numbers on that. >> Okay. >> We talked about that today. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean that that was a thing when we talked about priorities last week. You know, we're starting budget work sessions now. So, this was kind of the last work session before we get into the budget stuff to get some of these items in. Um, but yeah, those are still things we need to talk about. >> Okay. Anything else? >> All right. Mayor Council requests updates for fire department city hall project. you want to take it or one of you or >> we haven't had a meeting. We have a Wednesday. >> Wednesday we have a meeting. I was on site today with Lauren and uh Z systems and the uh job soup and Rob walk in the building. Um looks sounds like the city hall side is sort of ahead of things according to them. I'm not saying they're ahead at all. Uh but uh there's been some issues with concrete um and different things that we're looking at. Um there's going to be some hard discussions with the general about uh getting some money back or something for some of these things because the work is substandard in some places. >> I know we've had a lot of questions about the concrete work >> prior and going forward. We were concerned about >> Well, now they're done with the troughs and trays and stuff. >> Not good, huh? Yeah, that doesn't look good. I mean, if I was doing it, I'm not a concrete guy. If I was just doing it at my house, >> you'd do better. >> I'd do a better job just because I can see. I have eyes, right? >> So, it's that type of stuff that's very concerning. So, we'll be talking more about that. >> Usually, good guys that are good with concrete can make that look so nice. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Anyway, probably said too much about that in open meeting, but um there's just some concerns there that we need to talk about. Um but I think moneywise, I think things are looking good there. Um there's going to be some change orders coming. I'm sure there's some discrepancies in, you know, what this contractor has versus what this contractor has. There's been some communication issues in my opinion from the architect down. Um but uh we'll get to the bottom of that on Wednesday. So there's going to be some hard questions asked. Um but things overall things going well. Building's looking good. Um if you haven't been out, you know, you can walk around in there and not get your shoes dirty. Uh sheet rocks up for a lot of it, not all of it. But uh what do you say the grid was going in in three weeks or something like that? So um no wires run yet. We're still waiting on cable tray. >> Any air in there yet? >> No. >> And there won't be air in there for a while because we get that's what how do you say a month or so for windows? >> Um so can't do any type of pressure testing of the building until we get windows >> windows in. >> So that's going to be a bit >> if we would add arches on the windows >> on Wednesday. We building >> we going to be able to enter the building on Wednesday when we meet out there. >> Enter the building. >> Yeah. look at the inside or not. Is it >> I mean I don't know what it has for secure >> well up there >> all when the job suit leaves for the night he secures the building. That being said the apparatus base the apparatus space but the rest of it will be shut off. >> I seen there was plywood or whatever. >> Building's looking good. I think so. >> All right. >> And I tell you what, not putting the brick on the back looks great. Seriously, the contrast of it really makes it look good. >> Yeah, whatever. >> You're welcome. >> I haven't been to the backside for a while, so >> whatever. >> You're welcome. >> Looks good now. >> All right. Anything else about the fire department say >> again, I've said it many times, but I thank you guys and Lauren and the chief. I know it's a lot of work, especially I mean, >> yeah, >> I don't want to say it's not your job, but it kind of is your job, but you two clearly are taking time off work to make these things happen. So, >> well, and Rob is instrumental in all of this and you know >> he does a great job. I mean he really he knows his stuff and uh >> yeah he he asked stuff that you're just like how I forget that this is what he did so he knows the questions to ask. >> I think he wants his name on the building so >> well we'll give him a plaque about this big. >> You'd be fine if it wasn't on there. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um so next item is the cemetery. Um I know we already talked about in the work session, but if you want to just take 30 seconds Just for those that might be watching from home. >> Yeah. Uh council has had a couple presentations by the West Oakrove Cemetery Association. They are interested in turning the cemetery over to the city. City has uh you know expressed concerns about that and asked them to approach other entities. They've done that. They provided responses from other entities. again asked the city to turn it over to the council to discuss it in a work session tonight and decided to uh put it on the agenda, regular meeting agenda here now tonight to take a vote on it. So where we're at. >> Okay. Um so I guess kind of what I'm getting or what I'm thinking we're trying to do here, vote on this, move forward and either accept it from the cemetery or be done with it. Um, I guess what I mean by be done is try not to have this thing every week somebody's got some new piece of information we should vote on. But I guess at some point if somebody really puts some type of a presentation together then I guess you know if there's enough uh the consensus is that we at least want to review that then I guess we we will. So uh I would look for a motion to either approve to accept or or to deny. I guess >> I'll make a motion to deny. >> There's a motion by member Wy. There's a second by council member West. Is there any further discussion? >> Uh hearing none. All in favor indicate by saying I. >> I. >> I. >> Opposed. >> I oppose. >> Motion uh see if I get this right. Four to one to deny um the cemetery. All right. Um, does anybody have We did miss one thing. I just realized Lauren, you didn't bring it up about the phone situation, but maybe since Angie had brought that up, maybe it hurt turn. We'll just talk about that. >> Sure. >> Mike, anything before closing here? >> Um, I don't think so. Just hope to see Wednesday night up here. >> Yeah. Parks meeting. >> Paul, anything? Um, can you please send out the information? These um, council members haven't seen the stuff on the two versus 2.25 versus 2.25 acres. Um, how the subdivisions laid out what's this that and the other. I think it's very key that they see that before we vote to go to 2.5. And I'll just let those speak for themselves. But when you if he sends them out, take a good look at them and you'll understand. One of Brad's biggest concerns before he left, I went over with and and visited with him is he wanted to make sure that you all visually saw what it does. The 2.5 is just remember two 2.25 with road frontage most time gives you your two and a half acres. So just take it with a grain of salt. Just look at what they had because I don't think we're looking at all the same information that they've looked at. And I think it's important that we all see the same thing before voting on it. So that's all. >> Thank you very much. >> That's good. >> Uh John, >> yeah, I have one thing. Um I will be here Wednesday night. Um but uh night to unite on the 4th, I will be in Orlando working uh that week. So I will not be able to make it and I apologize for that. Um but I would really like to be here for that. I usually don't miss night unite but uh uh yeah I won't be here so >> I won't be here either >> medical procedure. >> Oh >> lobotomy >> I'm not going to discuss it. >> All right nextie >> I know the phone thing was one of yours but I don't know if you have something else you want to talk about. >> Um yeah I can talk about the other things I wanted to talk about first. Um, so there's there's been some circulation and some talks about our sheriff's department and enforcing fireworks in our city. Um, the fireworks that are going up in the air. And, um, I know that there's potential legislation being discussed to change that law. So, um, but I did want our community to know that our sheriff's department is here, um, to respond to emergencies. Not that that isn't, but um they have 36 square miles in our city that they need to patrol. Not that fireworks isn't important, but um I just want to remind people that they are here for emergencies also. Um and then I did talk to Jerry. So I pulled up to 22 and 9 the other day and the red stoplight, the top one was out going north. And so I called Jerry and he says, "I was just going to call you. They are having a meeting actually I believe it's tomorrow to discuss what all the options are for 22 east of nine um as to if they're going to redo the whole thing if they're going to do a little patch and repair and also what they're going to do about night and gill and flamingo. So I just wanted to update you guys on that. Um, and then I have been getting a lot of discussions from community members about flat cameras and um, there's I mean there's pros and cons to it. The con is that in my opinion our data is out there. It's there is no control over it. And that's what it seems what has been brought up to me by community members um about the fact that they hope we don't ever get them in Oak Grove. And um and I know Mayor you said last week that there's no plans for NOA County to put them in our city. >> Um is that something that you've learned from going to Jay meetings or I had somebody ask me that. No, I just somebody had reached out to me and asked that for some reason they had the idea that we were talking about this and I said, "We've never even talked about it." Um whether you're forum or not, we've never even had the discussion. I think last meeting was the first time the word flock ever even came up at one of our meetings. So, I was proactive contacted the sheriff's office because I also didn't want to come here and say, "Oh, it's never going to happen." if maybe they were considering, but at least at this particular time, I don't want to talk about any other city because I have no idea. But for our city, it's not anything they were even considering. >> Perfect. >> So, well, that'll make our community happy because I've had quite a few messages about it and I said, I don't believe it's coming here, but >> I'll bring it up. So, thank you for that. >> Right. And what I do know, I'm not going to get into the into it, but there's a lot more to it. most of the information that people are sharing is not accurate information anyways. They think they know it, but they actually, it's like anything online. They think they're an expert at it, but they really don't know anything about it. Um, but that doesn't mean I think we should get them here. It doesn't mean we shouldn't. I don't know if right now our city's ready for that one way or the other. I think just nothing we're talking about really. Yeah. Well, it's it's a question that the community brings up and when people even if it's just one person says something to me, I'm I I want to ask so that I can provide them the information. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, that's fair. >> Um and then there's been a lot of discussions about the mailboxes being moved to the correct height according to the mail delivery driver. And my question is, doesn't the city provide a swinging arm whenever new developments come in? When did we do that or what are what's the basis for that? >> I don't know when we started to do it, but yes, we do uh provide those with new construction and anybody that wants one, we will uh provide those. >> Okay. Is there a fee for somebody that uh has been here for years and has an old style one? >> Yeah, I don't know what our current price is for that whatever is on the fee schedule. I think it's during CO prices spiked quite a bit. We had a market rate on there, but whatever the current >> rate is for. >> And they'll install them, right? >> Yeah. >> And has the city been contacted by the post office at all about this? >> No, because it's to individual uh property owners that are out of compliance. So, it's a it's an issue with the post office. They're the ones that deliver the mail, not the city. >> The city deals with it on the new construction, new developments. Um, yeah, Aspen Glenn, third edition, second edition up there, uh, east of the ponds. Uh, that's one. The the the post office really wants these consolidated uh, mailboxes now, centralized mailboxes for the whole development instead of everyone having >> mailbox, not your mailbox. So, we've been dealing with it on that end as a city issue. But if your your uh your postmaster or your mail delivery person gives you a letter, it's not from the city. Not a city requirement. It's a USPS requirement for delivery to mail to your house. >> Okay? >> And it's right out there on the site. 41 to 45 inches to the bottom of the mailbox, four to six inches back from the right of the roadway. >> It's not too hard to take a tape measure out. Either they're in compliance or not in compliance. It doesn't matter if they weren't before. If they're not hitting the numbers, then they need to change it and they can do it themselves or get a mailbox for us. I put up my own because I want locking and stuff, but >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people do, >> but I went out to a site and it told me exactly what it needs to be, and I've never had them. Nobody's ever complained about it. So, >> like they're trying to speed up their unemployment. >> Better better get it taken care of or you won't get all that junk mail. >> Right. >> Right. Exactly. The campaign material. >> So, don't deliver it, please. I'm out of compliance. >> Well, somebody did not get their cancer medication, I guess. Um because they weren't in compliance. >> Well, yeah, you do online mailing. >> I know. I I've read some things, too, over the last six months of of people who have had issues with the mail carrier, but I've never seen a picture of their mailbox. I mean, is it like twisted off to the side or, you know, but but I'm glad to hear it's not like the new neighborhoods that the city's installing them and they're wrong, but That's what I was >> public works probably knows what they're doing. >> Yeah. I was wondering when we started that as to what neighborhood it was. >> I don't know when we started it. I don't like the clump mail boxes if that means anything to anybody. >> Prior to 2020 like >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Since I've been here, we've been doing it. So it was before that, but I don't know. >> I mean or 90s. I don't know what >> that's our choice. >> He got the guy comes to my house most of the time because he's always got a package. >> Package. Yeah. >> All right. Anything else? >> Um no. My my other question was about the phones and I see that you have >> I did just get a quote for so this would be if all five council members got city issued cell phone it's about 40 bucks a month with some fees on there so it would be a couple hundred bucks a month added to the city's cell phone bill I do have one I'm going to try to simplify it here and not get too technical, please. >> So, if somebody put in a request, would the city save time, money, anything if you if they're through the city and you already have it through FirstNet versus trying to get hold of everybody? Yes. >> What? >> Again, I'm not trying to get too technical here, but I'm just saying if a request came through because of FirstNet and going through the city, the city could just deal with it and not have to get involved with everybody else's stuff. >> You're the IT guy. >> If there's a request for data is what he's asking, >> right? >> Of course, that'd be there's one carrier. It's controlled by the city. Boom. There you go. instead of going to AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, you know, dealing with the individual. And some people just say, "No, you ain't getting my stuff." >> It's a problem. >> I Well, I know where Angie's at here. I don't know where where others are at. But I don't want to pay this for the city, but on the same hand, at some point, you kind of got to do it the right way, too. And if you expect people to use their items and then requests and different things come through, you know, now you're dealing with your personal stuff. Um, seven years ago, I was talking about getting laptops instead of us all using our own stuff. Um, again, I don't want to pay it, but sometimes the city's just going to have to pay for what's what they need to do. Now, maybe there's other options. >> Yeah. What's the cost of this again? And does that include a phone? There's a onetime fee for phone of about uh five bucks $4.95. >> Is that what a Jitterbug flip phone or what? >> An iPhone 17e or a Samsung Galaxy S25. >> Are they going to be insured then >> for you when you drop it? >> Well, yeah. Anybody loses one or whatever. I mean, it happens all the time >> and maybe >> find them at the park all the time >> and maybe some are maybe some are interested, maybe some aren't. Maybe some have six months or less and it's just not worth it to that particular person. But um it's what I push for these laptops. I I would push the same for this unless there are other options that do the same thing and I that's not my >> area of expertise. So maybe there are apps or different plans or something, but >> you can have two numbers to a phone, but then it's the same phone. They're going to take it >> regardless of where the data came in. So, >> right. No, you you could segment the carrier. That data is on the carry from the carrier. >> Yeah, you can't have AT&T and Verizon on the same phone though. >> No, but it's the number is the the issue. >> Data is coming to that number. >> I guess it's where the data lives. >> Yeah. So, if you have a separate number, >> right? So, I mean, it's yeah, it's 220 bucks a month after all the fees and everything, which isn't isn't chunk change. Maybe it's necessary, maybe it's not, but I still think it should be separate, and I've been saying that since I've been sitting in these chairs. Um, but again, maybe there's another another way to do the same thing. Um, what are other cities doing around us that >> Yeah, you should. I mean, >> anybody know? >> What does Champlain do? I honestly don't know. >> Well, all I know is I do not want to use my phone for city anymore. So, I haven't been. It's not worth it to lose my business over that. So, so again, I don't want to pay it, but I support it for those that want it. Again, I know I'm kind of repeating myself. Unless there's another way to accomplish the same thing, >> and I just don't know if there is or not. >> Yeah, I'm not sure. This is just a budget number. Just It was asked, the question was asked, this is what it would cost to add lines. >> I know the government gets a better rate. I mean, we wouldn't be able to do this. You can't get these new phones for >> No, for $5. >> Jesus. >> And they're new phones, too. They're refurbished. >> And they usually go for about five years. I mean, easily. Where's my telephone? >> We're getting charged five bucks. Everyone else gets them for free. >> Right. >> So, right now, I guess this is just information. Is there enough support to have it on the next meeting is with resolution or not? Or somebody wants to come up with another plan? >> Can we do it today? Can we vote on it today? I mean, for me, the sooner the better because, like I said, this is my business and my livelihood right here, and I will I can't ever lose this. So, >> can we vote on it today? And if we approve it, it doesn't mean we have to. It's our choice. He chooses not to use the laptop. >> Yeah. If anybody chooses or everybody could say, I don't want to do it, but it's always there if >> there is. So for that I would say we should vote on it and make it available for because you I'm using the lap like you said it's like after you said that I'm like I don't want to lose my personal laptop. >> So and hopefully it never happens but it's part of doing business. So >> I would make a I would make a motion to approve this for a council member that wishes to have a phone issued by Oak Grove. >> And I would second that. That be 119 Lauren or was that the cemetery? >> What's that? >> Cemetery was 118. I think >> that was 19. >> Cemetery was or the ponds was 118. >> So it would be one night. >> Yep. I'm not adverse to doing this, but I I think giving Lauren an opportunity to find out if there's other options um I think is the prudent thing to do. Um, but you know, in the end, I think if we find out that, you know, this is what you want and it makes you feel good, then you know, okay, we could vote on that. But I think we should do the prudent thing and get all the information before we vote. We do that most with most anything. So, if there's other options there that are smart, we should look at it. >> Oh, that makes some sense, too. >> What other options? I guess cuz isn't this the isn't this the company that the city is already using >> that you would prefer to be able to reach us at? >> Isn't that what you were asking Weston earlier? >> Yeah, I'm just saying or are there other options? What I mean by other options is is there something that >> I hate to do what other cities do, but if you call around to two or three other cities and they oh yeah, this is what we do or oh actually we use this particular thing instead. and just do due diligence and >> maybe they're using an app or something, >> right? >> I don't know. >> So, maybe we just push it off to the next meeting and by then we either go with this, go with the other plan or go with nothing, I guess. >> I'd be fine with doing the research on it. So, do I have to resend my motion? >> Take it back. >> You can amend it. >> I'll amend my motion to wait. >> All right. I know you need it right now, but it it's the right thing to do. He's not saying no. He's saying we need to do the like we do with everything. I I to me in my head I keep thinking Google Voice, but I don't think it's going to be reside on that device. I don't think it's going to say it's not. But that's how we could find out making a couple. >> The thing is if if you drop this in the outhouse, you're not going to get your arm full of blue, right? You're going to leave it there. >> What are you going to do? I'm going to buy a new phone and transfer everything >> because everything's in the cloud for the for the most part. All your business stuff is in the cloud. >> But you know what? I don't need them to look through every single thing that's in my phone either. >> Right. >> Can I say something here? >> I mean, >> there's no guarantee if they come after you like that. They're not going to take every phone that you have listed in your >> That is correct. >> Because I would never rely on the fact that this is John's only phone. I'd be digging to find out any iPad he had or anything else that he could have contact that's not going to guarantee that you don't >> but you know what it will give us protection um moving forward >> you know if you want to contact me about city stuff then this is the phone number >> but going forward anybody that's suing you isn't going to believe that and they're going to want to check your other phone too they're going to want to check everything I don't want to like I'm purposely not trying to shut everybody down I just don't want this conversation get too too far out there. >> It's only going on two. So, >> I mean, since the city has some stuff going on at the moment, >> right? >> So, I I apologize. I don't mean to cut you guys off, but I would say in two weeks, let's do it the right way. We'll either go with this plan B or there won't be anything. So, I think at two weeks, we'll have the answer one way or the other. >> Yeah. I just say, like I said, just >> Anything else? >> You don't want >> No, I'm good. Thank you. >> I only have one thing. I typed up a couple notes here. I promise it's not this long drawn out uh response, but you know, this particular thing I'm going to say isn't all just about me. It's actually about all of us. And that I think we all do a really good job here. And no matter how much rhetoric you read online, sometimes it's people who have no clue what's even going on here. Um, and this particular thing I'm talking about is the Ponds neighborhood. And on between getting home from work and coming here, I just thought I just was kind of curious what what have we, I you guys, whatever kind of done for the ponds in the last handful of years that um you know kind of makes sense because there's some noise out there that our communication uh they'll say exactly what it said. It sucks and um you know a lot of other negative things. Now some was some positive stuff too. Uh but so this is what I came up with. I mean I'll start it off by saying I think any of us would agree that communication can always improve, right? But you also got to have your ear open on the other end to listen to it, right? So referring to the pawns area, this is not in order. Literally, I did this in like 10 minutes, so it's kind of a little all over the place. But you know, there's been some conversation about, you know, unhappy people with taking two years to do the roads. Well, it's a big project. We could have and done it all this year, not did any of it last year, but the roads, some of those were in really rough shape. So, we thought, let's get done what we can. We all agreed, I believe, I think we all did, that let's not do the north part because we knew once they parked doing the sewer and all that, they're going to like cut up our brand new road. And the south part, well, a we were a little out of money, and b, we didn't know for sure what was going on there. So, I honestly think we we made the right choice there. um you know uh a combination of all of us. We've spent numerous hours of trying to get this 221st connection. A big portion of that, yes, it could benefit the whole city, but a big portion is going to benefit the pond's neighborhood by getting them over to Lake George. Um you know, we have those signs installed, which yes, I don't know if they really did a whole lot, uh but it showed we were trying to do something. We're now working through this grant application to try to do that for safety, right? Um, we all hear about the speeding, okay? And I agree, nobody likes people speeding by your house, but nobody's cutting through Zion Parkway because that's the shortcut, right? >> So, it's your own neighbors or their friends that are doing it. But we have, all of us, I guarantee we've contacted the sheriff's office many times. We put the speed indicator thing up when they had that. I mean, we've >> we've told them, pull more people over. I mean, >> mine hasn't been gone unignored. Um, you know, we had dirt bikes going through there. So, I don't remember if it was myself or all of us if it was at a meeting, but we requested to have like signs put up to keep all the dirt bikes out of the old wastewater area because they were tearing it up if people were concerned. You know, the neighborhood, you know, we do two and a half acre lots in this city. But they wanted lots and that would match their neighborhood. So, even though some of us ran on two of us in particular that I know of that we're not going below the lot size here, we broke that that promise to the community because we felt it was the best thing for that neighborhood because that's what they wanted. And it makes sense. Um, you know, the majority of people wanted to connect to St. Francis for the wastewater. Now, I know that wasn't a unanimous vote up here, not getting into all that, but we went with that. And there was one guy in particular who was really against it and he had a fair like he did his homework and it made sense but we connected. You know, they wanted a park up there. Well, one of the lots is a park. Now, it's not equipment or anything. I mean, who knows what that's going to be, but I'm sure that's something that the park commission will, you know, work on um in the near future. >> I thought the builder was putting one in. >> I don't know if they're putting all the playground equipment. I think it's just like here's >> dedicated their trail connection. You know, we saved a chunk of the land to help protect the neighborhood from if all of a sudden St. St. Francis decides that, oh, we're tripling the rates when the contract's done or they could triple the rates on their own residents and we have to follow suit, but we saved a chunk of land to protect them or at least try to. Uh, I know we all kind of worked on this, but this was actually Mike's idea. Um the contracts were coming due for the water and the sewer in a few years. And Mike's like, "Hey, we got a really good working relationship with them right now. Let's let's see if they're willing to to to extend that." So, we went to 2050. Part of the negotiation was we actually even got I know it's only a small percentage, but 2% reduction of their water because it now it matches St. Francis. I mean, they would not have had to do that. No. I mean, I don't I don't know if I would have if the role was reversed. You know, >> you know, if you remember a few years back, they were getting all these new meters or whatever. And we said, "No, we're not going to just tell somebody we're coming into their house, but we will offer that if you want us to come in and do, you know, do whatever needs to be done." That that that was an option. Tonight, 180,000. We could have done like they said on the page, a quick grab for the city. We could have done that. Yeah. >> What would they have done? Nothing. But none of us thought that was the right thing. So here they're getting the money put in their account which is reducing their fees and there's still some money that we still might be able to do something with for them. Um and when they had a loan uh for it, you know, it was a pretty low interest rate loan. Don't say that to Mike. But uh in the grand scheme of things, you know, >> so yes, communication could always do better, but you got to have your ears open too and pay attention to what is going on. >> Um and I would just tell people get involved. You know, if anybody from the ponds is here, this isn't me trying to argue with you, but there's at least one open seat for city council. So instead of sitting at home complaining about everything all the time, maybe you should run for city council. There's there's a lot of seats here >> as well. Every every other Monday or whatever it is, >> and you know, we're always here to listen. And I know some people will say, "Oh, I sent a message and no one ever got back to me." Well, I can tell you I've got back to every single person who's ever contacted me. So, if they tell you anything different, either there's a technology issue or they're lying. So again, I put that on actually all of us, but I think we've all done a nice job over the years. And I almost felt like when I was getting this like you've done nothing for the ponds, like I'm almost kind of embarrassed like I need to start paying attention to some other areas, you know, in the city, too. So, >> and I know with the communication with the places built to the east, you know, maybe that didn't work quite perfect. We owned that. Um, you know, we're the area that's, you know, going to be developed now. I mean, I hate to say it, but if you don't like it, you should have bought the land. You know, nobody liked it when my house was built or yours or any of yours either. So, um I guess I'll get off my soap box on that one. And unless anybody has anything else, I look for a motion to adjourn the meeting. >> Oh, you got to give the announcement. >> Next meeting. >> The next meeting uh will be Monday, July 27th at 6 PM. And we're doing a work session. Did we say at 5 or 5:30 >> or did we not say >> I don't know if we need a whole hour. >> We don't usually need an hour for that first one. So 5:30 should >> Okay. budget work session at 5:30. So now we look for a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Second. >> Motion by council member Tradewell. Second by council member Wy. All in favor indicate by saying I. >> I. I. >> Oppos. >> I. >> John would like to stay longer. Thank you for coming and those that No, this is my