table. >> The old classic triangle. My hand. Call to order the meeting on Monday, July 20th, 2026 at 6 p.m. Please rise for the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Roll call, please. Jenny, >> Mayor Vogle, >> here. >> Council members Robinson >> here. >> Here. >> Bonis >> here. >> Neilbower >> here. Thank you. All approval of tonight's agenda. Do I have a motion to approve tonight's agenda? >> Make that motion, Mayor. >> Motion by Councilman Robinson. Do I have a second? >> I'll second. Mayor. >> Second by Councilman Udvig. Uh, roll call vote, please. Jenny. >> Mayor Vogel. >> I. >> Council members Melbower. >> I, >> I, Fes. >> I, Robinson, >> I. >> On to the consent agenda. Do I have a motion to accept tonight's consent agenda? >> I'll make that motion. >> Motion by Councilman Robinson. I'll second. >> Second by Councilman Mulebower. Uh, anybody want to pull anything or discuss anything on on there? >> Not hearing any. Jenny, go ahead. Roll call vote, please. >> Mayor Vogle, >> I. >> Council member Sonis. >> Hi. >> Advik. >> Hi. >> Robinson. >> Hi. >> Melbower. >> Hi. >> Okay. On to meeting open to the public. When when it's your turn to speak, just feel free to come up. uh just state your name, state your address if you would like. That's up to you, but just state that you're if you're from St. Francis and state your name, please. So, anybody you wishing to come up, come on, come come forward, please. >> Hello all. Do I need to fix that? Are we good? >> Pardon? >> Is the mic good or No, >> I think so. Yep. >> My name is Aaron Hill. Uh Mark, my legal residency has been verified um with the city. So I will not be disclosing that because tonight's disc topic is about data privacy and our citizens privacy. Um our mayor, council members, residents, I'm up here tonight to talk about something that fundamentally changes what it means to live in St. Francis and that is the deployment of flock security drones and alpr cameras. I want to be clear from the start. I fully support equipping our first responders and emergency responders with the tools they need to protect the city. But as someone with a background in very complex data analytics and security, I know the difference between a targeted tactical tool and a blanket mass surveillance network. Block is the latter of the two. By allowing the NOA County Sheriff's Department to roll out the pilot program within city limits without direct transparent vote, this council is passively given a back door to approve plugging St. Francis into a nationwide privatelyowned database. This system tracks the daily movements of every citizen who drives to work, drops their kids off at school, or goes to the grocery store. We are promised local control, but the technology doesn't support that. Just weeks ago, Columbia Heights voted to tear out their flot cameras after realizing their policies, local policies, mind you, couldn't stop outside agencies from running massive out of state searches on their residents. Once our citizens data goes in the system, local control is included. We become a surveillance endpoint and shift a massive data harvesting campaign to our local roads. This should not be allowed to happen simply through passive surveillance silence from five people sitting on a dasis. It is a fundamental shift in civil liberties. Therefore, I'm asking three actual items from council tonight. First off, I would like to ask the city to opt out as we have the opportunity with the county pilot program uh by asking the city to exercise this right. We have it right. We need to kill camera deployment altogether and keep our city out of the network. Second, if there's hesitation about opting out, a decision of this magnitude needs to go be before the voters and a community vote and the community needs a voice. I ask that cameras be put on the ballot as a referendum if needed. Third, I believe we need an immediate moratorum on the continued deployment of ALPR and autonomous drones systems until we can provide public input. This system is truly beneficial as a vendor claims and secure then you should have no fear letting the people vote on it. If a community refuses to if you refuse to let the community decide that sends a clear message to the trust and the voters you were elected to represent that you cannot trust them. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you Aaron. >> Yep. >> Come on forward. Don't be shy. That was your moment. >> Be easier if I could just imagine you all as being preschoolers, you know, picking each other's noses and poking each other in the eye. Um, mayor, chiefs of police and fire and council members, first of all, I want to say thank you. I moved here 5 and a half months ago. I used I grew up here just 15 miles north on Highway 47 and moved away and I've lived on both coasts and coming back six months ago almost 6 months ago was um surreal and refreshing. Um >> yeah, can I get your name real quick? I'm sorry. >> I'm sorry. Anna Filson that um after I brought it to the attention of the public works um Paul Carpenter >> and and also to the police department about the fact that there is a speed limit about 50 ft in on the east side of Run River Boulevard on 235th, but there's no speed limit sign heading west on 235th. And the people that drive vehicles, both commercial vehicles and residents, treat 235th, like it's an extension of Rum River Boulevard. And I think that sign that you guys put there with, you know, recording people's speed limit or the speed that they're going will prove that out because I was walking my dog and I keep seeing like 49 52 and I'm like, [laughter] well, at least I'm not making it up in my head. But um I first of all I want to say thank you for doing that for putting that thing out because for the first like 10 days I came back and it was um I was on vacation. I came back and I went oh great. And I noticed a lot of like slowing down vehicles slowing down. Not so much the commercial ones. Um and that's they're building more houses back in the Ram River Bluffs area. But um anyway, thank you for your attention to that and for getting that done. Um so eventually hopefully we'll get a permanent speed limit sign. I hope it helps. I mean, yeah, you know, people are distracted. I understand that. But my concern is um I want to bring up one more issue on 235th at Rum River Boulevard. Both sides of Rum River Boulevard at 235th have paved walkways and they both pretty much empty into Rum River Boulevard. I noticed that at the parade and I was like, why is it that there's no mark crosswalk because it's so dangerous? And here's my points on the danger. If you're heading north right by the high school, it's 35 if it's flashing. But then there's a speed limit sign, an old or orange-ish kind of one that says 50 miles an hour. And past that parking lot that's on the east side of Ram River Boulevard, it goes there, there's a sign that says 50 and it's got the like double scurve warning that that's coming. And then about 50 ft further north, there's a white with black numbers, speed limit sign, 55 miles an hour. That is literally from the distance of this building away from the crosswalk. So, you know, are we asking the kids that ride their bikes and walk and elderly people who walk their dogs? When I've met them on the path, they tell me they park at Rum River North um parking lot for the county park because they're afraid to walk across because from the north coming into St. Francis, it's 55 miles an hour until you hit the 50 and then the 35 by the high school. And what I'm asking for your consideration if you would consider um and this is after after I talked to Mr. Carpenter, I he recommended that I talk to um Julie Barstad. Is is that correct? She's uh uh >> she's commissioner. >> Yes. Commissioner for this district. and she said it's not up to her, it's not up to them, it's up to Well, first she told me it was the state highway and I don't think so. And but I did call the DOT and they confirmed and they said that if um St. Francis wanted help with a feasibility test, they would help with that. I'm sure a cost would be attached to it, but um that's what she said. And then when I um talked back with Julie, she said, "Well, because it's in the city limits, it's up to the city to determine the speed limits because we call it Rum River Boulevard. It's not within the city limits. It's Rum River Boulevard. Once it gets out, it goes back to County Road, whatever." And so she said it's up to the city to determine if the speed should be changed. and they you don't need her permission to do that is what she said to me. And I said, I'm just amazed with 250 houses on the west side at 235th and countless, probably more than that on the east side. And I have seen since I've moved there, I walk my dog four or five times a day because he's a puppy. Um, and yes, he is licensed. [laughter] Um, come on. And I was married to a cop for 30 years. I had to live by the letter of the law. But um the thing was though is I noticed when I was standing at that intersection with my little 2-year-old boxer puppy weighs 72 lbs. He can drag me if he wants to. But um he wouldn't go forward. He put his feet forward like, "Nope, I'm not crossing." I couldn't see because the brush on the north west side of Rum River Boulevard, the brush is so thick where the curve comes like this part of the curve, you can't actually see if there's vehicles coming and then it's a very short distance from when you can see him to that intersection. So much so when my dog wasn't going to let me go forward, I mean, he was pulling me backwards. There was a semi coming and I couldn't see it because the brush is it's you know those guys that came around you had them they were city works or whatever and they cut down all the brush and trees in those ponds up there and I'm like why didn't they cut that down because even if you're sitting in your vehicle and you're at that intersection it's hard to see if there's someone in that little divot that you can't see because of the brush it blocks it. It's, you know, it's like they're hidden until they're not. But, um, with I've seen kids on bicycles, actually pedal ones, which I was encouraged, not electric bikes. They were getting exercise and fresh air, um, coming across and they have their fishing poles in their backpacks and they're biking across. Well, with my education is in early childhood education. And I know that your frontal cortex lobe doesn't develop. Insurance companies will back me on this until sometime around 25 for men. Sorry guys. Um, not an [clears throat] insult to men. Girls are usually between 17 and 18. But for small children, they don't put two and two together. Their their frontal cortex can't say truck coming fast or car coming fast. They're just going to shoot right across. And having had two sons that's already passed away, I don't want a parent to join my club. I don't want anyone to join my club. It's a hard club to belong to. You know, they're supposed to be your future. And it would drive me nuts if one of those little kids on my side of 235th or the other side was killed because, like I said, drivers are distracted. Look all the junk we have in our cars. We have screens and phones and, you know, bells and whistles. So when it's 55 and I think um Mr. Robinson emailed me and said he was up in my neighborhood yesterday >> and [clears throat] he realized too how hard it was to just when you're in a car to get out to go either direction on Rum River Boulevard. So the two things that I would ask the council to consider is lowering the speed limit to 35 and keep it consistent because come going north it's three different speed limits. coming south, it's just the highest one, 55. And and the second thing would be to um trim back that brush. And if those things don't work, and we still have people going through there very very fast, um I'd be willing I have lots of time on my hands. I'm living well on the perra benefits. um sadly um to door knock and get donations. I've already had neighbors that talk to me about that and they were supposed to come tonight, but I don't see any here. [laughter] Um like I said, people get busy. I'd be willing to door knock and take signatures and donations to get a painted crosswalk and those green signs where they can push a button and the lights light up to get drivers attention that someone wants to cross. And I actually know one of the three people that hold the key to the vault and 3M to the the sign the paint the magic stuff that glows in the dark. And so, you know, I even asked them, "Give me a quarter of your green paint." No. And I'd paint some of the old signs. I mean, I'm willing to do anything to save a life because I think anyone who's worked in um law enforcement or firefighting, the worst call is when it's a child down. And I don't want it to happen. And as scared as I was to come and talk to you all cuz you're bigger than five, you know, it's worth the effort to have you consider at least trying by lowering speed limits. Hopefully that'll help. Maybe put those orange markers on the signs to show that it's changed. And then and then the brush. Get rid of the brush cuz it is it's huge. I mean, you're going to if any of you drive up there, you'll be shocked to see it cuz it's there's a a couple of trees and then a bunch of underbrush and it's right it's in the easement way. So, but thank you. I appreciate you and I will respectfully wait. I won't bug you all. I I might bud Mr. Carpenter, but thank you. >> Thank you. Just going to pause for one real quick sec second on this. When when a when a neighbor comes with something like that, Paul, I know you've met with her or whatever else. What are there other steps we can do? I mean, do a sit down with the county and us and her or how. >> So, mayor and council, typically in [clears throat] a case like this, it's it's a it's a county right away. Uh, so I'll oftentimes reach out to Jim here in town who who who deals with the county or in this case I believe Kate also reached out to Joe McFerson, the engineer for the county. Um, so we've been reaching out multiple different ways. Uh, typically with public works if if the the brush I didn't know about until this evening and I'll obviously be inspecting that. Um, typically the county is pretty good if I want to get rid of something. Uh, the state doesn't let me work in there right away, but I can work with county. So that this shouldn't be an issue at all. The brush will have that done probably by the end of the week. So um >> something like the speed the sign if somebody wants to try and lower lower the speed limit. >> So Todd Todd probably is a a better >> I believe there would be some we've done it a handful of times in this in this city since I've been here. Um and I'm pretty sure it takes an engineering and traffic study to be done. um usually through the road authority in coordination with commissioner transportation commissioner um but I think >> you have a microphone >> I don't >> um usually there's a traffic study and an engineering study involved so they'll do and maybe K can account for this but there there's vehicle counts they they do some speed studies out there um it doesn't happen quickly um but usually once they give get their data and then they probably give us a recommendation from there. But I think I think it's ultimately up to the department uh the commissioner of uh transportation to to make that approval. But um I don't know if Kate has anything ahead of that. But there's a process behind it. It just we can't just go slap up new speed limit signs. So >> So it's not really up to us. >> Unfortunately not. It's up to us probably to request this change and then uh the county and um the part of the state would take it from there. Well, I'm very f I'm very familiar with what she's talking about. I mean, I drive all the time and I know another neighbor who lives right there is very concerned. Well, I'm just so I'm just curious, you know, how how can we get the ball rolling? I guess I understand it probably be a long time and maybe a no, but how >> Yeah. And it [clears throat] sounds like some phone calls have been made already. So, I think we'll wait till we'll start with the county since that's their road and uh they'll give us direction from there and I think uh we can proceed how they would request us to to proceed. So, thank you both. Thank you. >> I joined you there. It is go way too fast through there. >> Yeah. And the 50 mph speed limit is a recommended speed for the curves. Um the 55 is is the forcable speed and then the 35 is the school zone speed at only certain times of the day during school when when school is in session. So, yeah, there is three different speed limits there at any given point. Um but again, the the the curve one is a recommended. it's not uh really enforceable. So, >> thank you. >> Uh anybody else wishing to speak? Come on. Come on forward. Hello. Public speaking makes me really nervous. So, I'm just going to say that to start. Uh my name is Megan Williams and I am a resident here in St. Francis and I am here today to ask you to opt out of the flop camera situation. I want to be clear. I support law enforcement. I want stolen vehicles recovered. I want violent criminals caught and I want children found safely. But I also believe protecting our freedom is part of protecting our community. The question before you today isn't whether or not technology can help solve crimes. The question is whether we want to build a permanent surveillance system that records the movements of thousands of innocent people every day in hopes that it may help find a few who have committed crimes. Every single one of us becomes a point a part of the database. There is the argument that I'm sure we've all heard. If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Privacy is about freedom. We have the right to a reasonable expectation of privacy. And that does not mean that someone has done wrong. It's about being able to live your life without every movement being another data point stored in a system that you don't control. We're also being asked to spend taxpayer dollars to build this system. Even in Anoka County's pilot program, cities are expected to begin paying ongoing costs after the initial period. Whether that money comes directly from the city budget or through county funding supported by taxpayers, it is start our money. Before we invest in technology that watches every driver, we should have clear evidence that the benefits outweigh both the financial costs and the cost to our privacy. Technology changes, policies change, administrations change. The council sitting here today may not be the council that's sitting here in 10 years from now. Yet, once this surveillance network is built, it becomes available to whoever comes next and whatever comes next. History teaches us that powers created for one purpose often expand into others. That is why we need to be cautious before creating new systems that monitor ordinary citizens. I also ask you to think about accountability. If the system is wrong, what is the process for correcting it? If someone's vehicle is misidentified, if a plate is cloned, if information is incomplete or misleading, how quickly can an innocent person clear their name? Technology should never become a substitute for due process. Finally, I'd ask you to remember that it isn't just a debate happening here tonight. Communities across Minnesota have wrestled with these questions. Some of these communities have ultimately decided these concerns that some that I've addressed tonight and others that I haven't um don't outweigh the benefits and have chosen not to go forward with using these cameras. I hope our city will carefully consider these lessons and our concerns before making a decision that cannot easily be undone. Public safety matters, but so does the privacy, liberty, and the principle that innocent people should not be tracked simply because they exist in public. Thank you. >> Thank you, Megan. >> Mayor, can I ask a question? >> Sure. you know, um, before it goes out on social media and this gets turned all around that we didn't do anything or there was no transparency and we have our department head to that address some of that or I mean we all have cell phones in our pockets right now who and we're trackable your iPads and your computers know exactly what you're doing what you're buying and etc. How do we answer the public's questions the pros and the cons? How do we vet this out somewhat so the pros and cons don't look bad or good either way? I mean, it is a concerning subject to say the least. There's some pluses and minuses, but how do we address this? >> I I was talking with K briefly before the meeting and what what I'm going to suggest is because I I know Joel's got concerns, Amy has concerns, I've got concerns, I think you I'm sure Sarah has concerns as well. I really I really think we need to get the county back out here is what I really think we need to do. Honestly, that's that's my opinion before we go move anywhere. And I think it should just be at a regular meeting. I don't I don't think we need a special work session for it to just have the county county come back out understanding our concerns and and and and Joe Joe had talked to the sheriff and had gotten a uh a more detailed information about the flock that I hadn't seen before and the public hasn't seen it before. So, I think that's the opportunity for the county to come back here, present the information they shared with Joe that Joe shared with me and have have this discussion directly with them and and and the community. So, >> proactive. >> That's that's my suggestion. We have the county come back out [clears throat] to a regular meeting and we'll go from there. >> Very good. >> Can I ask one question? >> Sure. Go ahead, sir. Um my question is because of course we have roads that aren't ours and going through our city. So how much say do we have on those roads? I mean if Anoka County says we're putting up flat cameras on those roads, what is our recoil on that? If do we have anything or >> Well, I have discussions with the sheriff on this. I have discussions with their lieutenant who's kind of leading this process down there. Um, I would say yes, the county does want to move forward with this project. They want to put their cameras in some designated locations, a couple being here in St. Francis. I would also say that if if our council um had a consensus that after bringing the county back up um that they absolutely did not want cameras in our city, um I would I would certainly have that discussion with the sheriff. Um, I can't tell you how he would decide that, but I can guarantee he would listen and um, listen to our concerns. Uh, hopefully address them at the meeting when the county comes up. Um, um, but again, I I we could certainly have that discussion and um, and see how that plays out. >> It's just important that residents understand that sometimes it's not in our control. There's only some some things we can control and some things we can't. So if that's we want to have that discussion with them, we want to have them come here and I hope you all come back for that meeting because I think it'll be a great one. >> Great. >> We ask a question. >> Go ahead. >> Um so currently there are no flap cameras in St. Francis. No. >> Is that correct? Okay. And I apologize. I was actually not at the work session. It was not a regular meeting. It was at a work session that we discussed this. I was actually in the hospital that day. So I wasn't here. So currently we we did sign up for the pilot program or we did not or we did agree 10,000. >> Best way I could describe it is we gave them a half-hearted thumb thumbs up is the best way I could describe. >> Yeah, there there's really no signing up for this um at this point. It's a pilot program um ran by the sheriff's office. Um us being part of the county, they want to include us in that project uh for various reasons. um usually based on calls for service and that's why they also want to have a drone up in this area to cover three different cities. Um but yes I >> Okay. So we we are on the hook for the $10,000. >> We are not. >> Okay. >> No, there the the first year is completely ran by the county. It's paid for by the county. Um ongoing discussions at least for the next year to talk about beyond what that one year looks like, including the funding for a project, how long that project would be and and how it breaks down to each participating city. and how it's paid for. >> Okay, thank you. >> Back to the public here. Anybody wish to come forward and speak? [snorts] [clears throat] >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. Dustin Pavoc, 23617 Idoliz Street. Uh, I'm going to go the other way. Um, I completely support flock cameras, 100%. I work for a metro city. We've had them for three or four years now and to see how they work every week, every month when we get updates is wonderful. The things that they have helped us done are great. Are they perfect? No, not by any means. And they are new. It's new technology and we're learning things. Um I I think all it would take is one abducted child to come through the city to get caught that everyone will be, "Wow, I'm glad we had these." One does and we don't catch them. I don't know. I just I support them 100%. Thank you, >> Dustin. And as long as you came up real quick, thank you for your service on planning and zoning. Appreciate it. Thank you. Anybody else? All right, seeing nobody on, we're on to new business. Uh work session comprehensive plan. Yes, mayor council for you tonight is a request to schedule a joint uh comp or a joint work session with all of our commissions and the council in regards to the comprehensive plan. Our 2050 comprehensive plan is due within the next 18 months and this is a meeting to help set some goals and priorities. So, I'm asking for Monday, September 14th at 6 PM. If council's in agreement with that, we will invite all of our commissions Is that the same day as a city council meeting or the opposite Monday? >> Opposite. >> I'm available. >> I checked my calendar. I'm good. >> I can make it. >> I'm good. >> Okay. >> Go. >> Yeah, I'm good. >> All right. Thank you. >> On to new business item B. Fiscal year 2027 preliminary budget discussion. Nelly. Just get plugged in. Sorry. Can see it, Jenny. Mayor and Council, before you tonight is the pre preliminary budget discussion for 2027. City staff have been developing the 2027 budget over the past several months. This budget discussion provides an opportunity for the city council to review the proposed budget, provide direction to staff, and identify any desired changes before the preliminary budget is presented for adoption in September. Upon adoption, the preliminary levy will be certified to the county. The annual property tax levy history from 2018 to the proposed levy for 2027 is shown in the figure on the screen. The budget is currently at 10.17% increase over 2026. The increase of each fund includes general operating at 5%, fire district at 15%, Vister Prairie tax abatement at 200%. Capital equipment at 34%, parks at 20%, building improvement at 50%, no change in storm water, and street improvement at a 17% increase. The debt service levies are proposed to remain the same as the 2026 amounts. The annual property tax levy consists of two components. The general levy and debt service levies. The proposed 2027 general levy, which funds city operations, public safety, infrastructure, and parks, is 6,810,178. an increase of $730,178 which accounts for the 10.17% increase over 2026. Considerations in the proposed levy levy include additions and adjustments from previous year budget cycles. Storm water is no longer a feebased collection is budgeted in the levy at $300,000 as it was in 2026 as well. taxpayers will not receive an individual bill for storm water fees. Another um adjustment is that the Rum River Fire District is now a separate entity. The Rem River Fire Board approved a 2027 total budget of 1,56,200. The joint powers agreement between the city of St. Francis and the Rem River Fire District states that their budget needs to be approved by both governing bodies, St. Francis and Bethl before a final number can be included in the city's levy. The city or sorry the chief of the fire district will present the budget for consideration following this discussion. Another consideration to the levy is the tax abatement for Vista Prairie. The abatement is budgeted at $200,000 for 2027 which is an increase of 150,000 over 2026. Vista Prairie pays their full taxes to all agencies and will then receive the city portion back as a refund. The tax abatement is set at 2000 sorry $200,000 a year or $1,975,000 over the 10-year abatement period. The city must place the refundable amount in the general fund to ensure Vista Prairie is paying their full tax capacity. This amount does not get collected or paid for by the residents as it's not an operating expense. We're also waiting on the numbers from Enoka County to calculate the fiscal disparities, net tax capacity, market values, and joint value amounts for the year 2027. The numbers shown in the preliminary budget are estimates with respect to the net tax levy calculation. We should receive those numbers from the county late August, which we will bring back to present to council and the public. The remaining portions of the levy are allocated to capital funds, which include capital equipment, building, streets, and park funds. The CIP presentation received approval at the July 6th council meeting. Each of these levy amounts goes into the fund for the projects listed in the CIP. The total amount to be included in the levy for capital improvements include 235,000 for capital equipment, 75,000 for building improvements, 300,000 for storm water, and $840,000 for street improvement projects. The proposed amount of capital improvements to include in the 2027 levy is $1,750,000. There are sever several factors that are driving the proposed increase in the general fund budget. First, personnel count personnel costs account for an overall increase in every department. This includes salaries, overtime, health insurance, social security, Medicare, PAR, and other employee rated expenses. The city employs 39 full-time staff with 31 positions primarily funded through the general fund. Some movement is coming from the city council budget which you'll see a decrease in due to movement in items over to administration. Staff deemed um some movement in some of the funds for uh better allocation purposes for future planning including the newsletter which was deemed a function of administration. So the full cost of that moved over to administration. Um, we're seeing an 8% increase in computer consulting fees for 27 2027, which impacts all departments. In the breakdown here again, you'll see the $200,000 tax abatement for Vista Prairie that's found under the miscellaneous allocation line shown in the figure on the screen. as well. We're also seeing the effects of inflation across a variety of areas including contracts, materials, supplies, and fuel costs for departments. The second portion of the levy is for debt services. The city has two debt service levies which include the 2027 I'm sorry, 2017 capital improvement bond which pays for the police public works building. This is proposed at $310,000 for 2027 and these bonds are set to be paid off in 2035. We also have the 2023 capital improvement bonds um that pays for a debt service on the city hall fire station. This is proposed at $790,000 payment for 2027 and these bonds are set up set to be paid in 2053. These levy amounts ensure attainable payoff dates are set up in the bond which are set up in the bond documents. All other debt the city has is covered by water and sewer funds. Still some unknowns um as we're a little early in the um budgeting cycle right now. We need to hammer down before preliminary levy is set in September. Um include overall insurance costs for the city. This includes building liability, workers compensation coverage, health insurance costs. Um, we should know these numbers by late August, early September, which we will include in the preliminary levy numbers. Local government aid amounts have not been formally set by the state, but preliminary numbers are showing a $1,200 increase in our local government aid numbers for 2027. Those should also be set um in the next few weeks. We also have some unknowns when it comes to the bottle shop and THC product sales for 2027 [clears throat] as there has been no word on the extension of the product ban into 2027 on lowdosese um drinks. We may have some movement in the bottle shop budget for both revenues and expenditures for them. In regarding in regards to lowd dose beverages, there's a strong possibility that there will be no change in the ban and those items will be removed completely from the budget items in 2027. The budgets not attached to the tax levy levy include the water, sewer, and liquor funds. All three of these are fee based and revenue and expenditures are produced from the sale of the three funds. Staff is looking for input and discussion from the council on the current standing of the 2027 preliminary levy. Any adjustments would be reflected in September to be certified to the county. The approved preliminary levy in September drives the creation of the proposed tax notices that the residents receive in no November and also drive our truth and taxation. September sets the city's maximum levy. adjustments down are still possible until December until the December budget meeting. With the help of Kate and all the department heads, um I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have regarding the discussions. >> A lot there. Who would like to go first? >> I'll go first, Mary. >> Thanks, Kevin. Um, the liquor store situation is concerning because I think their sales represent almost just under $100,000 a year in sales, not profit, but sales. So, that the THC beverage industry has exploded. If the federal government doesn't do something and that'll change the dynamics heavily of our liquor store and that's a piece of real estate as well as employees that you can't just have to create jobs money in money out equals zero you know equal equals equal easy goodness gracious equal money so that's a big deal that's a that's concern should be concerning to all um other than that I really don't have any anything else profound to say other than I'd like to see what noa county can put in I Guess we'll accept it as it is. Like talking with some friends of mine, you know, inflation's 3%, we're asking for 10%. And some of us aren't getting 2% or one half% of social security or on your daily job, you're not getting 3%. So how how do you make those things meet when you're asking your fellow citizens to cough up another 7% on top of what they might get might or might not get from their employer? So other than that, it's it's uh it's concerning to me and I understand the department has done a very thorough job. Doesn't mean that we can't look back at this when it gets closer to September and say is there any other room anywhere, but again um it's tough running a business and this is a big city business. So that's all I have. >> Thanks Kevin. Sir, >> I echo the the liquor store. That's concerning to me. That's a that's a big chunk of our money that that could disappear and that that's going to hurt and we're going to have to find ways to make up that money unfortunately. Um other I don't have any major concerns. It's always hard to have to have increases. Um but every budget increases it seems like every year. I don't my household I can't remember the last time I could have a decrease in my budget. Everything costs more every year and it doesn't change just because we're a we're a city. So, um again like Kevin said, it's not that we can't make some changes in the numbers and we're not willing to. It's just a a long tedious process to get there. Sir Amy, >> so this is just the preliminary numbers and we're not making any decisions on this night. >> Correct. Mayor and council, we're just looking for discussion, direction, um if there's pieces that you want further information on, we can get those and then we will get another presentation together with updates, changes, solid numbers for insurance rates, and all the unknowns that we have. And then we will bring all of this back to you for review and then approval of the prelim preliminary budget in September. >> Thank you. >> Okay, Joel. Uh, what date do we actually get county numbers? >> Uh, I believe last year it was around August 20th >> late, which is nice. >> It's late in the month. >> All right. >> Intentional. >> Make it easy. [laughter] Um, yeah. I mean, obviously if you don't have the numbers, it's hard to work with those numbers and figure out where we can go or where we need to go with other things. Um, I looked over the budget all day yesterday. It was really fun. Um, I think the city's pretty much on par for where we've been historically. I don't think there's any outrageous increases. A few things we talked about previously was the road program possibly pausing um where we're at. Although with 47 coming up, I don't think that'd be wise. Um the other funds again account for a lot of that levy, which I do still think they're young. They're growing. The public probably doesn't like to see it at all because it's an increase with the levy. Um however, I think to be a responsible city, we need those funds as far as park building maintenance um and road program. Um, we're not going to slam anybody with redoing their roads. Uh, I've gotten a few complaints about the chip seal again. Uh, Paul, I was going to relay that to actually. Um, and uh, you know, it's it's it's things that I I think we're looking at that again, it's it's a lot all at once that we ended up doing. Um, you know, this is prior to to Mark getting there as well. Um, you know, and and Amy, you weren't there for that either. But I do think that for us to be a responsible city, we need to have a fund to maintain the buildings. When we pay as much as we do for these buildings, we have to be able to maintain them. Um, rather than not having a fund, um, just irresponsible and I think disrespectful to the people that pay for those buildings. So, I think with the budget the way it is, uh, as the city side, I don't see an issue with the city's portion here. Um, the miscellaneous I did have a question about, but you did answer that, Natalie. So, thank you. That's it. >> Thanks, Joe. I mean, I shared the same sentiment pretty primarily, but my biggest talking briefly with Kevin earlier today, too. My biggest concern simply is anybody can use your phone, look it up, when the inflation rate somewhere between 3.5 and 4%. So, how do we get to 10%. And and I'm I I'm looking for a little clarification. I mean, I think I know the answer to this, but I I I assume we're getting to 10% by things like the Vista Prairie, by we're building up the funds for the road. We're building up the funds. So, it's the additional buildups that are getting us to 10%. >> Correct. Um there's also contractual increases, even just the one contract at 200,000, more than 200,000 at an 8 8% increase year of year-over-year. I mean that and having multiple of those throughout different departments that that adds up. Um you know standard increases for contractual costs. We are seeing fuel increases across the board. Obviously that weren't an expectation for 2026. So we're we're planning that into 27 hoping that um we're wrong about those fuel costs. Um and then the Vista Prairie tax abatement going up $150,000 for this budget cycle. It it impacts it tremendously. So >> So my takeaway kind of remains the same as you guys have heard it before. So it's not anything new to you. I mean I was somewhat pleased. I I I still I know it sounds small. I sounds I know it sounds like a token. I get that. But I'm still against the double digit increase. And so I mean I kind of joke with Natalie. I said 10.17 or whatever it is. What's the 0.17 equals dollar-wise? And she did the quick numbers on it. And it's $12,400 would get us to 10%. And I'd like to get us below double digits. So my my take is if we got to, as I said before, share the pain a little bit. we've got to cut $20,000 out by not increasing the park fund as much. I I think we should always be increasing them. So, I'm not saying we don't stop not increasing the park or not increasing the road or combination of two or three or maybe the fire department doesn't exactly what they asked for. You know, we take a little bit from each one of those buckets. We're not affecting operations. We're affecting future stuff down the road that we're just trying to be good stewards of. and and build up those funds. And if we slow the rate down by $20,000 between all those funds, I don't I don't think that's asking a lot. But I think I think the city that's that's what got me to run. Everybody knows that. Three years in a row, 16% increases on my on my taxes. That's not sustainable. So, I'd like to see us get this overall operating levy below 10%. I'm not Again, I've said it till I'm blue in the face. I get it. The budget's always going to go up. As Sarah said, it's it's not it's not something we can ever say no. And to be good, prudent students, we need to increase those funds so we have the funds available when we need them. But so that's that's my only my only comment is I'd like to see us get it right below 10% and see what that looks like. So, anybody else? Anything you want to add? You have a kind of direction then. Okay, >> I think we're good. [clears throat] Thank you. >> Thanks. Thanks, Natalie. >> Yeah. >> On to item C under new business, Rum River Fire District budget approval. Chief Schmidt, >> mayor and councel, before you is the approval process for the Rum River Fire District budget for the 2027 budget year. Um, back on June 23rd, the fire board did unanimously approve an operating budget of 1,56200. Um this budget does not include any new positions for next year. It also reflects um the additional charges as the district as far as the fi fiscal agent uh services at 24,000. The lease payments at 48,000. We had to add our own line item for legal services. As Natalie just touched on, the Metro Technet technology increases were a little bit more than 8% for us because we're finally getting our full snapshot year of a standalone district and does include a 3% cost of living for all staff for the 2027 budget year. Um, running the formula through running the budget through the formula, we landed on, and this was my error, 99 $999,180 would be the city of St. Francis's share. And with that, I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have. >> Who would like to go first this time? >> I'll go first. Mayor, >> thank you, Kevin. Go ahead. >> Um, I talked to Chief earlier today about um since with Bethl, their approximate budget in the past was in the $40,000 range, give or take a buck or two. >> Contractually, they're right right over 30,000. Then they continued to pay for their own maintenance, their own fuel, their own building costs, things of that nature that weren't included in the contract price. >> And the reason they came to us in the first place was a diminishing diminished employment for their >> reactive firefighters. Yes. >> Right. And the equipment, etc. And then just overall serviceability for their customers, which are 488 residences over there that need needed help. So they're now pulling a little more of their their own weight, but they're getting the service they're getting is enhanced considerably. >> Yes. as far as dollar dollar for dollar >> for both of us. The advantage that we get on that east side of town is tremendous for >> Yeah. Also, we were looking into the we were having the at the last board meeting, we talked about ISO rating as far as your homeowners insurance, what that does for either of our communities. Hope hopefully we'll see some reflection of course on a new area and then they'll hopefully definitely see some reflection as well. So, also as you look over the R River numbers, fire district numbers, kind of interesting how when you stand alone, things cost a little bit more, don't they? When you're not in the co-op, >> they can. And some of those numbers have always been baked into the city budget as far as like the fire station and and things that departments collectively helped support through the administration umbrella. We now have to pay show our own distribution or line item budget for those things moving forward. All in all, um I I'm on I'm on on the board the rem district, so I help vote for this as well. Again, [clears throat] it's our first year out. We you've done the homework and our uh um >> and we're still learning through as we go through the process. >> And it's not stumble and stub your toe time. I mean, we didn't come in this half baked a three-year process of putting it together. So, um as things kind of flatten out and we'll see a little more once we get a good year under our belt what's going on. >> Yeah, >> I might feel pretty confident. So, but again, like the mayor said, we'll we'll have a opportunity to take a second look at it at some point and uh with your help, we see where it goes from here. But that's all I have. >> Sure. >> Do we do we think that I mean, what are what is the probability that Bethl is going to accept this? >> I'll find out on Thursday. If if either city doesn't accept, right? Right. Then the budget has to go back to the fireboard for whatever alteration is desired or recommended. Then it would have to then come back to both cities for ratification at that point. So it's a little bit of that's kind of the mechanis mechanism of the fireboard is to kind of do this prevetting have those conversations with fellow elected officials on how we got to this point, how we're moving forward. So, we do have to be a little bit careful for sure because if either city box, I don't anticipate that Bethl is going to b. Um, their their board members that serve on council as well have been very supportive of this process and highly engaged. So, anything could happen for sure, but it does then push this out probably another two months for ratification. Okay. >> I was just wondering what that looks like if it doesn't get passed. Um because this is a this is a big budget item. Uh and it's it's hard to swallow. [laughter] It's hard to see the increases and go, "Oh," you know. Um so I I understand the need, the great need for our fire department. Um, and I just I don't know if I can if I can get behind this big of an increase. It's really tough on me because I'm very supportive of our of our fire police, but this is this is a tough one for me. >> You have I mean I I totally totally agree. Don't >> Yeah. When you say that I mean what would you do you have any >> I I don't know because I mean it's the formulas I mean obviously the formulas all work out. It's not like the numbers are are fudged. It's just it it it's it's just a big number. [laughter] >> It's just really big. And I'm I'm trying to to to understand a little bit more. I guess I probably need to call in and or come in and sit down with the chief and and go over a few more things. >> Well, and Sarah, one of the things that I would have you consider is the legal fees or not the Yes, the legal fees as well. Um but in particular the fiscal agent services and the um facility lease payments. Those are those numbers that were already baked into the city's overall budget as a whole. So that's $72,000 of that increase that existed previously in the city budget but now stands out as that standalone number for the fire district. So it does seem a lot larger than truly in the aggregate what it is. And we kind of discussed it before. I mean the we're trying to flatline the capital flattening the capital plan. I would say those are pro that's probably the other big really big one >> that accounts for the majority of it. And the metro inet fees I don't think us nor the city saw an 8% increase coming with metro inet. >> Anything else? No >> um so you said that this is not adding any personnel. >> No. Um, so I'm looking at our our budget on page 50 of 75 and there's a little chart there. >> Yep. >> And it it says personnel 2026 budget was $466,000. Yep. >> And 2027 budget is $522,000 with some change. >> So that's a change of $56,000. So how is that not adding um personnel? And you also said that personnel had a cola raise of >> Yep. 3%. >> 3%. So this is a almost 11% change just in that one category. So can you explain that? >> So two things with that. It is the 3% increase. And as we sat down with Natalie, we were a little bit light budgeted on the paid on call side for part-time salaries that we needed to make an adjustment on. So that accounts for all of the increase for our personnel costs. >> Okay. And um I'll go to the other line in just a second, but speaking of personnel costs, the paid on call firefighters, paid on call firefighters only get paid when there's a call >> and they get paid for training and some other things, but they are not full-time staff. >> Correct. Um so when I noticed in your your next um presentation about the month end numbers um you know we're approaching for this year like last year you know somewhere between 900 and a thousand calls per year with a big majority of that being medical calls. >> Sure. Correct. So, what have we done to reduce the number of calls that the entire fire department is being called to? Um, and I'll I'll go back to um, as many people know, my husband was on the fire department and when he joined in 2010, um, there was about 250 calls per year and the the fire department did what they did best. They did house fires, of course. They did um car accidents. Um uh they did major medicals um and CO alarms, illegal burns, that sort of thing. Okay. And major medicals were in my mind heart attacks, falls, strokes, choking, maybe a couple others that I didn't think of, but they weren't calls that were I've been feeling ill for 3 days and someone needs to write to the hospital because they're they're just feeling ill. Okay. So that person so if in 2010 they had about 250 calls and now we have almost a thousand calls. I understand that during co there was a change in the need um because Alina wasn't able to come to all of those more minor minor calls. Sorry if I'm using the wrong words but those more minor calls. Um, and so that attributed to a big increase. Is that correct? >> I would not say a big increase. So when we went through that process initially, what also happens whether we're primarily dispatched to that event or not, we can still be requested by either our own police department if they're tied up or by a line if they're coming from a distance. So we did a full audit of all of the CAD codes that we got dispatched >> in 2020. out of all of the CAD codes that we are being dispatched to today, if we didn't make a change, it was a net loss of 27 runs because we're being requested that often by either our police department or by a lineup. Since then, we took off some of the lower acuity calls such as a G tube came out or a PEG tube came out. [clears throat] We've also worked with Select Urgent Care where they direct dial to Alina and it doesn't go through an automatic dispatching system. We also moved two different types of CAD codes over to a duty officer response only. So, we're continuing to evolve our response model based on the trends that we see. Ultimately, at the end of the day, an average call for us for three or four firefighters to show up even though we page out the entire department is about 125 bucks per incident. Right? So, we're not talking about a massive cost cutting if we were to reduce our responses by even a hundred, right? Um, but every city around us, every city in the state, every city in the country has seen double-digit increases in run volume since 2019. COVID was a partial factor of that, but we haven't seen them go down. This year is the first year in my time here where we're actually starting to trend at a decrease for our runs. We're running about two was it two or 3% behind what we were last year. So, we are starting to see that flatten out a little bit, which is a good sign, right? >> That is good. Um, about a month ago, the supervisor for Alina was here. Yep. >> Um, and I enjoyed I enjoyed what he said and he alluded to that. He didn't allude to it. He said that they have different rigs and different groups of people that go to those lower acuity calls. and he said that it it the outcome is no different to have this group of people go to um those lower acuity calls than having the the the paramedics and the em you know the the the more higher trained people. And so I'm wondering why if Alina is going and he said that they're not having any staffing issues and they're not they're not regularly taking too long to be there. Um I'm wondering why we're still going to those lower acuity calls when you I understand that if a line is not available just like you said they can always call you and say oh there's there's this call I I we can't make it. Can you come out to this one? Why are we paging out the entire department for all seemingly maybe not all those lower acuity calls when Alina is already has somebody coming and he said that they're not having any problems handling those. Keep in mind they can always call you when they need help. Maybe maybe they can't get to 10% of them and they can call you to those um you know in a in a quick time. >> Yep. I guess I'll answer this two ways. I I'm less concerned about the perspect perspect perspective or perception of what a line of beliefs has value and I'm more concerned about what our taxpayers believe that has value. >> Amen. >> Right. They're going to come in and they're going to tell you they're going to give their presentation. As the fire board, we're going to meet with both our medical director and Alina in August so we can continue to have a more nuanced discussion about Alina's position or some of the statements that they made. I'm not going to disagree with anything that they said, but we're going to have a more robust discussion on what that looks like. As far as far as why do we page out the entire department, I I'll give you this example from a week ago. We got dispatched to a three three-month old not breathing. Okay. >> Pretty serious event. >> Absolutely. That wouldn't be when I would say don't send everyone. Yep. >> Yeah. >> Nobody was available for that call. So, we paged out station one. Nobody else was available for that call. We paged it out a third time and we finally got somebody to get out of bed. So, it took three pages on a significant event. The point of that is I don't get to pick and choose who's available. We have 26 firefighters. It took three pages to get more than one person out of bed. Right? So, whether it's somebody who fell or a house on fire, I'm counting on 26 people. I have to take this larger approach to ensure that we have people that are able to respond. You're never going to get away with that. Get away from that in a paid on call fire department. Do we continue to evaluate where we have ultimate effectiveness? Yes. Do we continually evolve our response model because of that? 100%. But we're also accountable to the expectations of the ordinary citizen. And I don't know how to unpack that. We've had a number of discussions about this at the fireboard. We don't know how to unpack that collectively because the answer isn't just also no. Right? We do have to do continuing community education which we always do at the point of contact on what may be seeming a lower acuity event. But just because we don't make a necessary difference in their medical outcome, we may make a difference in the next time they decide to pick up the phone to call for service. Right? So there are outcomes here that don't show up on a line of the spreadsheet and certainly don't show up on ours because we never know the totality of it. Right? So to me 30 years into this when we touch somebody every time it has value, right? And to be the person on the other end of the line that is in a state where they decide they have to call 911, 18 minutes might as well be 180 days, right? I'm proud of the work that we do. That doesn't mean that it's not going to change or evolve. I think we're in a really good spot with where the level of service that we provide and the amount of times that were called for service. We will continue to evaluate this. Again, the fire board, we've had this discussion a number of times and we will continue to to find that sweet spot where we have the biggest out greatest amount of outcomes regardless of whether that's life or death or fire loss or not based on these on the community expectations. Well, and I I you know, I hear what you're saying, but for me, you know, I have been the person who's had to call 911. Not recently, but I as long as someone who is trained to show up to help me, I personally don't care if it's the fire department or the police or an ambulance, as long as someone showed up to to help me if it was a medical situation. Obviously, Alina is or, you know, ambulance services is very qualified to do that. So, I don't see the the difference in when you're saying the taxpayers expect the fire department to show up. I think as long as they get helped in a reasonable amount of time based on their need, I think that that is the the service that that that they are getting and would be happy with. Um, but you're right when if if you have to wait 18 minutes, I'm not saying that's that's reasonable. But, um, I think that we should find a way to have Alina be Alina used to be stationed here in our city more and I think we should find a way for that to happen again because that is going to reduce call times, right? If they're closer, it it reduces call times, right? And so I think that we should I I think the the increase here for almost 11% when everyone's just getting the 3% cola raise and you're not adding new staff. I think that is and and I heard what you said that the first numbers were were too low. But I I I think that there's some wiggle room there and I think that um I I think that's a big number and that's kind of stuck out what stuck out to me. The other one that stuck out to me is services. Yep. >> Um and that probably is just because of the 2026 being the first year and we put different things into the 2027, but that's a pretty big increase there. So maybe I don't understand which items are in ser included in services and which ones are not because that's a big number. >> Yep. So the big ones in services are the 24,000 for the fiscal agent fees, 5,000 for our own legal coverage fees. Um our computer consulting went from 21,000 to 45,000. So that's a pretty large increase for Metroina alone. >> Do I have those numbers that you're reading? >> No, you have the overall spreadsheet that we have. >> Oh, okay. I think I think those those individual numbers for council >> the lease fire station lease is 48,000. The rest of them remain fairly fairly flat. >> Okay. Would we be able to see those numbers? >> I can email I can email you the services. >> Okay. >> Bucket. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, and and any line items from these categories? I I I think that would be really helpful for me to understand. >> I haven't looked because I'm on the board. >> I haven't looked at because I'm on the board, but is this stuff available in the Rum River District? The deeper numbers that she's talking about and you're talking about, are those available on the site >> on the website? Not as of today. No. >> Okay. >> Okay. Can we get those on there soon? >> Let's put it on the agenda for the next fireboard. And >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Oh, and when is that meeting? >> August 20. Got to look. >> 25th. >> Is it on our list here? >> No, that will probably would not be. >> It wouldn't be till next month. >> August 25th. >> Yeah, I've got it as August 25th. Yep. And then is it is it true that we're not deciding on this today as well? >> Well, mayor council t tonight is a request for an adoption of the budget. If you choose to continue it or request changes, um then we would be moving it forward if if you're not looking to fully adopt it. So, >> because I thought I I saw an email from you that said we weren't deciding on this tonight. So, we weren't we were only discussing the city the the fire portion of this budget is looking for a formal adoption because and then they'll go to Bethl on Thursday >> and request the same thing. If our council chooses not to adopt it tonight, we would continue it to a future meeting and then they would go back, work on anything that you're looking for, answer any questions, and then they would come back to get a formal approval at a later date. So, Can we adopt with contingencies like uh like I said the shared sacrifice trim $5,000 from a kit. Can we >> defer that to our attorney? >> Okay, [laughter] Travis hotspot. >> I I wouldn't counsel against that, mayor. Um reason being I think it'd be more prudent to know where those changes are coming before you grant any approval. Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't want to set this back any, but I mean, so if if we accept it tonight and Beth accepts it on Thursday, are we done? There's no more changes at at that point. >> Correct. >> Yeah. Unless, you know, Leon Travis, if the fire board came back and wanted to amend the adopted budget at a later meeting, they would have the authority to do that, would they not? I >> believe so. Yes. >> And then whatever that amended budget turned out to be, it would end up being a refund back to the approved allocation from the cities. Could we write it that way? >> Yes. I don't I don't see any reason you wouldn't be able to go back and then return some of those funds. >> Yeah. So, I think that from a fireboard perspective, right, you would still have the ability to go, okay, everything's adopted. Let's see if we can cut 5,000. We'll run it back through the formula. We'll cut a share back to each city. I don't see why we wouldn't be able to work backwards, if you will. >> Anything else, Amy? >> It It's just such a big number. $,56. Sorry, $1,ion56,000 is such a big number to um it's it's listed as a contract, right? But it's it's that's a lot of money to to give to an outside party, an outside entity. >> Sure. >> To to manage. And I understand that two of our council members are on the board and two of Bethl's council members are on the board and one other person. And I it's just it's such a big dollar amount for the five of us to have um not 20% of the vote um because and I I don't know how to explain that. I tried to explain that to Mark today, but I just feel like I personally feel like I have no say in in what's going on on the on the fire board and service. I I feel like I have no say. Um and I I whether we decide to to send this to another meeting, which I doubt, I will vote no because I think 18.75% increase is is is way over the top. And if I I I just think that the personnel that the change in personnel is just it's just too much. And as Mark has been saying, um times are tough for everyone and everything costs more. And that means I know that means it costs more for the city here too and you and you I I know everything costs more, but we just keep asking our citizens to pay more and more and more and this this just seems too high to me to to approve. So, I'm certain the rest of the people here will vote will want to go to a vote tonight and I'm certain they'll probably vote to approve it. Um, I will vote no. Um, because I I just think that we didn't sharpen our pencil enough here. And um, and this going to a fire district was supposed to save money. That that's what we were told. We're going to have shared services and it's going to save money. It's going to and this isn't saving money. And I I don't feel that it is right that um Bethl I understand how the numbers come out that the population and all that I get that that's math but for them to have equal vote on the board um when they are only bringing five% to the table and we're bringing 95% to the table doesn't feel like our taxpayers are being represented. the way that I would like to see because a million dollars is a lot of money and and I I'm that's how I feel about it and I feel like we haven't done enough to at least flatline that personnel um services, you know, go back to there's there's less than a thousand calls a year. That's a lot. What is that? Three a day or something. But there there's got to be some of those that you could not have everyone go to. There there's got to be more of those where um not everyone's going to attend. And maybe maybe it's those those easy ones where you and Tim are here during the day, you know, and um there there's got to be a way to cut down on personnel. And um I think that um I I I just I think there we we've got to do something there because it's too big of a number for me. >> Excuse me. >> Um All right. So you mentioned personnel um and then raises for everybody basically. Um it's going up actually 12 a.5% not to 10.81 81 on the on the sheet, but what's the current pay per hour per per firefighter and then what's it going up to, I guess, is what I'm curious about. >> Uh current pay range, let me pull it up. >> I probably would have called you ahead of time, but I've been busy, unfortunately. So, >> Oh, I hear you. We all have them. So our current pay scale for firefighters in 2026, if you have 0 to 5 years of service, it's $15.30 an hour. 6 to10, it's goes up to 1694. 11 to 15 goes to $18.58 and top pay is 2022 an hour. Um that and I don't have the math yet for the 2027ment yet. >> Um I was gonna ask about service as well, but I think if you're going to email I mean you can email me as well because I was I was more curious about what's all included in services. >> Yep. >> That's going up actually about 90%. So I'm trying to figure out what's all included in that. Um I think to move forward we need to know these things. I think I think um [sighs] you know with the idea of approving it and then coming back later I I don't think I just and all due respect I just don't think that's good business. I don't think you would approve something and then say we're going to come back to ask later or whatever. Um I think we need to we need to hash everything out here. I think unfortunately Dave you're going to be my pin cushion today. >> That's all right. And uh I think you know when we come to feeling the pain um I think we need to stick some pins in you here. I I just I I see a lot of these things. Um and I think too obviously we get the packets, we read them. Um we get them late in the week and we try to hash everything out and I did see you sent that email as well with the updated stuff. Um I do appreciate that. Um, but I think I think I think we need to have more discussion on the fire budget as far as a council and I'll definitely be giving you a call to understand more of this stuff as well. Um, but I I don't think um one don't get your Powerball numbers from Amy because I don't think I'm in favor of this either. So, [laughter] >> I'm shocked. Okay. Sorry. >> Doing doing the math. I think I we have to I don't know. There's I I get some things, but I went historically back with the city stuff and the fire stuff and I'm trying to figure out kind of where we're at and historically where we're going and just kind of I don't know trying to understand things I guess to the best of my ability and and um you know looking at it I'm like okay where are we going here? What are we doing? And unfortunately, you have the department with the biggest increase, I think, overall. And granted, it's there's some percentages that are similar, but the dollar amount is a lot smaller. So, the percentages don't necessarily equal the dollars. Um, and that's kind of where I think we have to look at some of these things. So, I I would like to at least I need to have a conversation with you especially to understand more in depth a lot of these things. Um, again, services, I need to understand that better. um you know, maintenance that's not a big deal. Um capital's not huge, but um the the capital improvement plan too and the flattening of it. I you know, I I understand the benefits of it. I also understand the detriment of it. And I think that is one of the biggest things that I have an issue with personally is that capital improvement plan um being flattened just because I think the the amount that it needs to go to to be flattened is just way too high. um you know cutting at least I don't know I'd like to see at least 50,000 cut from the the the current ask and I don't know if you know you're going to tell me that's not possible well you can bring forward I guess whatever you got but I want to see a significant amount go down here and I I hate to say that to you or do that to you but I just don't a lot of it has to do with like not understanding the services and stuff. um you know, if I maybe if I see some of that stuff, I don't know if I change my mind, but honestly, I think it's it's it's too high to approve, I think, at this point as well. So, that's kind of where I that's where I stand with it. Not kind of, but that's where I'm at. >> Yeah. Respond to Joe. Um Joe, I know where where you were going with that, asking what the what the hourly pay was. I I just want to say I I think $15, $18, $21, whatever firefighters get paid it to to get out of bed, leave their families, and go help someone, it's not enough. I I don't want anybody to think I don't think firefighters get should should take a pay cut or not get increases because there's it takes a real um special person to do that job and want to help their community and get out of bed and go help that that baby or that that car accident or whatever it is. And so I I don't want any firefighter to think that I'm saying that they make too much money because that is not true. And there's just there's just so many times they they get up from a family dinner or and and go go help someone. So I I just don't want anybody anybody to think that. Um so I'm glad that you're going to send us the specific numbers. I definitely want to know where training fits into here. Um because I know you have >> services >> in under into services, but I know that you have a training officer and so I'd like to understand more about how much training is done inhouse, meaning it didn't really cost anything to have your training officer teach a class, maybe some supplies and things, but how much training how much of the training classes are outsourced to another company? I understand there's a need to do that. So I would like to know more information about um um you know this number of trainings we had were done in-house and you know whoever taught them who whoever that was and we all of these trainings were done by an outside company and how much we paid them and what we got for that that's what I would like to know. Um I feel that um having a training officer and two full-time employees um I I I just want to make sure that number makes sense. Um Most of our training dollars are fully reimbursed from the state. Whenever we spend on an outside vendor, we get the majority of that money back. >> We have to pay for it up front, but we do get the MBTF reimbursements. >> Okay. Well, how does that fit into the budget then if it's here in the in >> because we still have to pay for it. So, we have to account for it as a budget line item. So it comes then back back to you or previously to the city and it is put in as a a revenue or how does it get credited back to >> it goes in as a revenue. >> Okay. Okay. Well, I'd still like to know more about that and what what vendors we're paying and and [clears throat] how much we're paying them. I I just think it >> I just I just want to understand those numbers better. So, if you could include that information. I don't know that I'll be able to pull all of our receipts, but we can certainly take a look and see what we can get you. >> Okay. >> And show you that that revenue versus expenditure. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anything else, Joe? >> No, that's all. >> Okay. So, I I don't I don't know what this means. So, Dave, I'm kind of throw it back to you at the moment. What I'm hearing prim primarily is they want more information. How does that What does that timeline look to you or do we have have to have another Rum River special meeting or whatever else or >> it's great question. [laughter] We're all It's all new, right? Yeah. So, >> um I think the first part would be obviously there's there's an actual item in front of council that would need to be addressed. Depending on where that falls, we can figure out where we need to pivot to move forward. It sounds like But what I'm hearing here is I Everybody chime in here. What I'm hearing is that my consensus is I think we want to hold until we have more information. >> I just need specifics on what you're exactly looking. >> Go ahead, Joe. >> We need a motion either to continue it or we need a motion to approve and then it gets denied or a motion to deny it and it gets approved or whatever happens happens obviously, but we need a motion to do something here. >> Does a motion continue, Travis or Dave? Is that does that work as far as >> we would either have to try and find a date to do a special meeting for the district to figure out what that looks like or we would have to push it to our August 25th meeting if we don't have a date that we can find amongst the board members. >> I mean, I'm just going to throw it out now. I'm more in favor of having a special meeting in the room or so so we can keep the timeline going on this. >> Either way, we're going to push this to either August or September once we figure out what everybody wants to do in the direction that they want to go. >> Go ahead, D. >> The only thing for the preliminary levy date is going to potentially be set for September 21st. So, we would need posting time to get the hearing posted for that. Um, so this all needs to get done 10 days ahead of September 21st, no matter what. >> I think I I don't know. I don't want to speak for you. I >> that there's a desire to see the line item budget year-over-year and there is a desire to see cost of outside training versus revenues. Am I am I getting everything? >> Uh, services, list of services just to break it down. I guess that's going to help me a lot. I think understand what where that's going. Um and then if I think of anything too, I'll be in touch. I'm let you know too. But >> Joe, just to clarify, the services line item budget or description of the services within the line item budget. >> I don't know. All the above, I guess. [laughter] >> Both. I think I'd like both. >> Okay. We can have a phone call. Make sure that we get it all straight, Joe. >> Okay. >> So, you have enough, Dave? I mean, >> I think so. Okay, thank you. >> Thank you. >> At this point, the meeting's open again to the public. So, anybody wishing to speak, come forward, state your name, and >> Tina and Carol, and I am a citizen of St. Francis. So, a couple of questions that I have about the budget. um speaking about with transparency and actually wanting to see the line items for services in the fire district. what I would like to see and I know this is has been a tough pain point for years but I feel that we should be able to see line by line what we are spending in the city and for the fire district because we are paying those taxes. We should be able to see if you're spending $5,000 on a bench or on a parking lot that's not really needed. We should be able to see those line items to understand where our money is going. And for the fire district for the increase in personnel, okay, I personally, our company handed out zero costre uh cost of living increases this year because there's just no money. Granted, my industry is a little bit different than others. However, our employees because we are in a 24/7 365 industry, they rotate personnel that are on call when something happens. So, when that baby couldn't breathe, why can't you have it where there are two people on call for those nights, three people on call for those kind of calls? So you're not throwing it out there to all 26 people hoping to get one call, one person to go back where you set a schedule. Okay, you and you are on call tonight for the um you know the the non-urgent or whatever, you know, non non- major. Why can't you do something like that? And I don't know what kind of system the fire department uses, but my sister was a um volunteer ambulance driver. That thing was so loud that there was no way somebody could sleep through it. I was in a completely different area in the house and I heard that thing and I thought there was some major disaster in this country, but it was her alarm going off. I need to go and I need to go now. So, I don't know what system is used. >> We use pagers and we have two different apps that people can put on their phones for alerts. Um I I can tell you pro some people probably heard it, some people probably didn't. I can tell you after 30 years of doing this, there's nights where I don't hear it. >> Well, if they hear it and don't answer it, then they should not be on staff. I'm sorry, but you signed up to do that and you choose to not answer it. You can at least respond back and say, "I'm sorry, I can't make it." You know, something may be wrong. Whatever it may be, but that's where they were required to have that app. You can't use a pager because you can't hear pagers. That's like from the 80s. Who uses pagers anymore? >> Fortunately, our apps are not NFP approved, so we have to continue to use pagers. They're not NFPA approved. >> NFPA, National Fire Protection Association. We have to have an NFPA approved alerting device. The ABS have yet to receive that rating from the NF. >> How can an ambulance be able to have that? What's the difference? I guess I don't understand. >> The National Fire Protection Association. >> Okay. >> They're under a different governing body. >> Okay. I didn't understand that. Um, but something to consider that you know that you're not throwing it out there to 26 people for every single call. And you know, like Amy was saying, let Alina come back in here so we don't have to have those calls because trust me, I appreciate you guys. You saved my father-in-law, so I appreciate it 100%. Because without you guys you nobody would have gotten into our house because somebody locked the door when he wasn't supposed to. So yes, I'm blaming you. [laughter] >> So I appreciate and you've seen the videos. Most of you have seen the video of the woman kicking in my door. I wouldn't want to piss her off. So um so I appreciate it. But just some ideas on ways to try and save some dollars and cuz I agree they don't make nearly enough and I understand they're all volunteers. We only have a couple of full-time but some things to think about and I don't know if it's possible to get the city and the fire district budget line by line and how I can get access to that. How any constituents can actually get access to that because it's our money. It's not just the city. So, >> Mr. Mayor, maybe we not to get a quick Sure. >> Um, so, um, I understand what you're saying. I I think that's a good idea, but, um, it it would be difficult to require all firefighters to come to all calls. Um, most of them have full-time jobs elsewhere, so if a call comes through at 4 in the morning, they might be gone or, you know, have to leave for work. And so, um, so just kind of keep that in mind. Um, you said they have to come. Um, it's you and the everybody in most calls, the major ones, most people get paged out, the whole department gets paged out for major calls because you you hope you're going to get a handful of them and you know, some are at work, some are, you know, having to go to work. And so, um, that is that's how it and they're not volunteers. They're paid on call. Um, and so, um, but it it's so you you hope you get some, but there's lots of calls. the less the less serious calls that you could figure out what like what you're saying. Yeah. >> Um make sure a couple people are know that they're the ones that have to get up for that that call. So, I mean, I don't know this. I mean, if you might know it, but I know in the state of Wisconsin where my sister is, if you are on any kind of an fire uh fire department, anything like that, and you're an on call, your full-time job, they have to give you that time off. They cannot tell you you cannot go um and get get reprimanded for not showing up. I don't know if Minnesota's the same way. That is not >> okay. That is sad. That is very, very sad. So, I guess that's something that needs to change as well. So, but thank you all very much. I appreciate everything you guys do and again, thank you guys for definitely for what you guys do. >> Thanks, Tina. >> Thank you. Can I just make one comment? >> Sure. I uh I worked in the medical field for years and I did it >> and and the number of pages or the number of calls or the number of I mean overhead pages that we did for doctors and anesthesiologists and they missed it. It's it's not a it's not an uncommon thing. You do get used to hearing those things after just like my alarm clock. Sometimes I I turn it off because I'm so used to it going off. I'm, you know, so it's it's not just our it's not just a a firefighter thing where they're ignoring it. I don't think it's it's like Amy said, they're they're gone. They're on the road. Um so >> they're at work. They're out of town. >> Yeah. They're >> So it's not just not But don't they have to let you know if they're going to be out of town? >> No, we manage their responsibilities on a quarterly basis. So each firefighter has to attend 20% calls for the quarter. That doesn't account for their time off or their work time, right? They have to make 20%. Um, which most firefighters don't have an issue with, but they also get to pick and choose which calls they go to based on where they're at at that moment in time. The the other piece is that if we assign people to be 100% responsible for a period of time and we restrict their movement, now we have to pay them. We just can't say, right, you have to stick around. We're telling you you have to, and if you don't show up, there's consequences. We're going to restrict their movement. There has to be compensation that comes with that, which is going to add to that services cost. >> Okay. Thanks, Sam. Thank you for that. >> You're welcome. No, Mike. Mike B from St. Francis. Got to say something I normally don't say. I'm really proud of everybody in the discussion that we're having on this. Um, we all got different views on things. We all respect uh the services that fire and police give us and it's nice that we can't give an open checkbook all the time. So, it's great to hear everybody having a conversation. Now, when you were talking about paging, um when I drove a tow truck for Chicago Heights, um there was one person on call and one person on backup. Um and if it took us longer than 10 minutes to get there, chief of police would be in our butt like you wouldn't believe. But the thing is we also got paid on commission. So we we got paid higher and that's how we did that at night because we did have full jobs. I was paying cars during the day. I drove tow truck at night and I would have to get up. So I do know what that is. And yes, I did see the same stuff that you and you see on that job. So there are ways to do it. I mean yes pay them more when they you do restrict them, but it's better in having I mean I live on the corner. I hear every siren that leaves in this every one of them. And I wish we could slow that down or at least once you're past the stops while you turn off the sirens, [laughter] but [clears throat] >> but uh that that's all I got to say. Like I said, I just very proud of everybody and uh talking uh because it makes the city better if we can do the budget and we can all come out with something. And yes, thank you guys for what you did. I told the the chief, thank you. No, I thank you personally for coming into my house. >> It's absolutely our pleasure. even though it was my fault that I locked the door. And and I do got a question. Um what's going on with the road in the back of the house? Uh or behind subway, I guess, would be the easier term. Um >> Paul, do you want to >> Yeah, Mary Council, the the schedule it's is to begin this week for grubbing. Uh the project will finish sometime in September as far as the road project. >> So what what's the road? I mean, what's what's the purpose? Where's it going? Is it a oneway? Is it a through street? I mean, just you just going to put asphalt back there to see where it goes, >> council. No, it's not a through street. Uh, it'll go north a short distance and then curve to the west just north of Subway. That's where it'll end in a partial culde-sac. Um, it it allows access to that piece of property. That is all. Is that from the east side or from the west side? >> Excuse me. >> The [clears throat] right side or the left side? Where's the road going north? >> It just to the would be in between the dentist and the subway. >> So it' be to the the east side of >> it'll head it'll head to your left. >> Well, there's only one opening over there. Correct. I mean, so I mean there's only So I'm just trying to figure out what's what's going on cuz a year and a half ago, we were told the only thing that was guaranteed when they cut the trees down was the road. Then we're told nothing can be done because um they don't know the plot. Um so when I'm asking I'm not trying to be rude, but I mean it directly affects my house. That's why I just trying to figure out where the road's going and how it's going and what it's going there for. We've got I don't know which meeting it was. I mean there's plans couple meetings ago where we approved the plan. So it's it's going in between the dentist and subway. It's wrapping around behind subway. It's going to end, as Paul said, a culde-sac there, which will serve the two lots that are on the corner of Ambassador and Bridge Street there. And >> so then it's going that way. >> Correct. >> So he said it was going north. >> Well, I mean, it's >> Well, because it's northeast. >> We could we could we could bottom line is it's it's >> I just want to know where the I mean, there's things on these things all the time that showing where everybody else's road is. In my house, I just get looks of confusion. I just wish I knew what meeting it was because there's detailed plans on >> I can't make it to every meeting. >> No, I'm saying to reference you to look it up online. It's >> and I'm more than willing to look it up online. But that's the thing is we're we're told to come and ask questions and then I get a lot of Oh, I don't know. I mean, I shouldn't have to explain northeast, south, and west when we're right here. I mean, there's a reason I'm asking because it directly impacts where I live. It's not like I'm going down to the neighbor's house and complaining about that. I mean, it directly. So, what is the road at Cullac being built for right now if there's nothing going to be built? Because >> that's so so the lot behind subway is sold. The lot behind that that lot that they cleared the trees on is sold. So, the developer is that's going to service that development and it's also going to provide access to the two corner lots the city owns and Bridge Street. When I was at the last meeting two weeks ago, you guys said that there was no definitive plans drawn up for back there. >> There there still isn't that the >> So that's what I'm confused. See, this is where I'm getting confused. >> So So the property is sold and developers were currently working on proposed plans. >> So then the plot is done. Then they've got the plot. >> Council, can I can I So So I'll back it up a little bit. So uh when Paul said the road was going north, so it's going to come off of Bridge Street. It's going to go north just past the garage. >> Yep. >> And then it's going to take a turn to the west and turn into a culdeac. >> So there's going to be a culde-sac in my right at my fence of the backyard >> right where the stakes are. Correct. So um what that culdesac in that short road is going to allow is one, it's going to clean up the access to the dentist and their garage. It's going to provide subway, a secondary access point. It's going to create access to that corner and also create access to the north to the property that was sold to the developer. The developer is now holding the property um working on their plans. They can choose to create a road and pay for a road that connects to Ambassador where the other end of that property lies. Um they could do some type of of center depending on the total number of units. say they only come up with five houses, they could just create a big loop. So until we know what the developer is doing, um that will determine if the road goes any further, but that is all the cost to the developer. So for the city right now, we're going to go north, we're going to go west, we're going to be we're going to have access to all four of those properties are going to benefit, and then we're going to continue to wait until the developer comes in with the plans as to what he will put on that backlog. >> Okay. And and thank you. I mean, I I truly appreciate because that's all I was asking and you heard what I got. So, I mean, >> but but I just asked that you slow down because I think the questions were coming so fast, we were kind of getting confused and that's why I wanted to go backwards to get to the >> I mean, because I I'll stop and let anybody talk. I mean, I I've got I want I want to give that the same opportunity that I get, but I I mean, it's when I asked you guys last uh two weeks ago, it was like nothing's been talked about. out there waiting for the plot and now all of a sudden they sold and they've got um there was a road going through there. So the information that I was given two weeks ago seems drastically different than today. >> No, let me slow back let me slow it back down. So all along this has been two projects. So one is the city project. The project to do Woodbine north and west um was talked about five years ago when we bought the Ambassador property uh two >> two 115 or whatever that is down there. >> So that is a whole separate project that has nothing to do with that development since we're no longer connecting it. We're only doing the short L and then the city is is done with that road. Um but it is two completely different projects. the developer themselves >> are going to come in with that parcel. They're going to decide what they want to do and then they need to plat it. So, you will be because you're you're a cont, you know, within the circle of of the by law, you'll be given a notice and they'll show you um what that plat looks like. So, that has several steps to get to. Usually takes about 6 months. They have not dropped off an application as of today to tell us what that plat is going to look like um as far as development. But so we've so it's sold. It is not platted. So that's a big difference with that >> because I I was always under the impression because you and I've asked this question dozens of times in the last year and a half that it was under uh contingency because first it was the apartment building that was declined then it was uh some villas or something like that. And when I asked you about that, it was like, well, we're waiting for the the plat to come through because we can't do anything because of the way the plats are lit. So, how could it be sold if the plat wasn't there? I was told it was in waiting for u a plan. I mean, >> no. So, mayor council, so we're we're still working on the title work, but the developer, it was going to do the plat account for our road. Since that plaid is not done, our road is being built under a under under a temporary easement. And once they plat the property, they're going to give us our road. So these land use, it has like four moving parts at once right now. Um, but as of right now, the good thing to or the the points to remember is one, the road is going in. It's an L. Two, the developer holds title to the property. and three, nothing will be developed until a land use application goes through the process and then everybody will see what they're looking at developing. >> Okay. And you can understand my gunshot because I didn't get any notification even though my house was part of that to begin with. >> Sure. >> I mean, and everybody says supposed to, but none of my neighbors got that letter at all. So, >> well, there was no letter the first time. It hadn't made it that far. >> So, but uh just when things just start happening, it gets us nervous. I mean, I I think that's why I continually come up here and uh I come to as many meetings as I I can. Nobody should be expected for all of them and then just say, "Well, it was in the last meeting." Well, you know what? I've been to a lot of meetings, more than most of the citizens of this town. >> No, the only reason I suggested it because if you want more [clears throat] details, it's there. >> I'm more than willing to do the research on it. I mean, but like that said, I did had research on a video on another that nobody wants to admit that's real either. So, I mean, and I wasn't insinuating that you did anything on that, Amy. I mean, I know you took that uh when I talked about that video with Mike. >> Oh, >> you said that I insinuated something towards you and there was no insinuation on you. >> I guess I forgot what I >> I mean, but I got a good memory. So, I didn't want you um Joe said that I said something to Jod that was offensive and I apologized to her. She wasn't aware of it. So, I'm really trying not to [laughter] be angry person at anybody here. >> But I mean, it's all I am very concerned what's happening in my backyard and I will continue to come and ask questions. That's not going to go away. Um, so I mean, that's cuz the safety of my house. I mean, it's it's crazy. I mean, I don't want to see any more kids laying in that intersection. I don't care whose fault it was. I mean, because I hear it's the kid's fault. Well, I don't care whose fault it is. If you would stay at a stop sign and look for a minute, you would see a kid run. Oh. All right. Thank you guys again. I love the conversations you guys had with the fire. I mean, it was amazing. All All the council is great on that. I appreciate everything. Thank you. >> Thanks, Mike. >> Mayor, I have a question. >> Go ahead, Kevin. >> You said the owner holds title, but there's title work still being done. How can he hold something that's incomplete? >> So, mayor council, so and I might look to Travis to help me explain this one. So, um, >> that's an honest question. I don't mean to put you on the spot. >> Yeah. No, no, no. And it's a comp it's just it's a complicated with the the county. So, the counties the state is still holding the uh the final report. We're waiting for the final report. We sold it. However, there is agreements that that will continue as this moves forward. So, we still have to wrap that up. but their title insurance company allowed them to close without our final report if that makes sense. >> Yeah. >> So, >> and I thought that we voted to just extend it to like a April 1st or something which has passed. So, >> I'm kind of with Kevin if if that time has passed and the they were supposed to come back with plans of what they were going to do in order for the sale to actually take place. That's the way that I understood it. >> No. So, so when when >> what the within the purchase agreement um what we extended was the uh potential closing date. No, that's not right. We extended the due diligence date from I think it was December to to March 30th. From the due diligence date, they had 30 days to close or we did. um if the title work was not done, it allowed another 90 days of of the city's due diligence to get that done because their title company was not afraid of closing with that's outstanding. They allowed us they allowed them to take ownership of this. So, we were still within the confines of the agreement. It didn't have a requirement to have the plans done. it. It was the requirement that related to their due diligence. So, soil testing, um any surveys they wanted to do, all of that had to be done by April 1st. Then we had to close and then there was the 90 days that it could be delayed. So, they still had another month and a half that they could have had us waiting, but they chose to close early because they could um close without that report, that final report. But they still have >> they still have to do some some approved plan on that site. They can't choose to sell it to somebody else for its real value. >> Correct. So mayor and council that is the one one thing with the EDA. Um they do have to develop that property. If they don't, we get the we get the property back. So >> within timelines and and things and a development that we approve of. >> Correct. >> Not just Okay, now I'm gonna >> Okay. >> Yep. Has to follow all of city zoning and comprehensive plan land use requirements. So um so they'll go through the process, drop off a concept plan, they'll do the preliminary plat process and the final plat. But all of that will go through council like required. Okay. Anybody else from the public want to speak at this time? Seeing none, on to the city administrator report. Kate, >> mayor, council, as of tonight, I really don't have anything. Um, there's a lot of things that are just pending and sitting still. So, uh, I'm happy to answer any more questions. Otherwise, that I don't have anything else for tonight. >> Any questions for Kate? Anybody? >> No. >> Okay. Thanks, Kate. on to department reports. Public works second quarter report all. Uh mayor and council, uh the second quarter for public works is a is a maintenanceheavy quarter. Uh typically water, wastewater, do a bunch of pump changes, a lot of oil changes. Uh the same with streets and parks. Um so I'm just going to highlight a few things this afternoon. Um one of the projects that public works on uh worked on this spring was uh the bottle shop landscaping. Instead of hiring it out, we decided to do it ourselves. Uh proud of the guys. They did a really good job. Um it turned out turned out quite well. Um one of the other things that public works does is apply calcium chloride to our gravels every year. Um and I I swear it seems like every time we apply calcium chloride to the gravel it rains. And this year it happened again. We received about 5 inches of rain after we applied it in early June. Um, something I want the council to be aware of. When you get that much rain after you apply this, it weakens it and eventually uh, [clears throat] and we're having a drought now. It's a dry not drought. I don't want to say that word. I'll say a dry summer right now. And since it's washed out, the roads are becoming dusty again. Now, it's $30,000 to put chloride down on all of our gravels in town. It's a lot of money. And we're very particular about when we apply it. And I I want the council to be aware at some point I might come back and have to I'll I'll present it to the council maybe to respray some of these roads because they've become extremely dusty. 241st just north of town uh is one of them. So just want council to be aware of that. Um again like I said that this spring it was heavy rains after we got maintenance done. So mowing was probably the number one priority. Kept everybody plenty busy. Um, another thing we did this spring was the hot patch trailer that we waited a year and a half to get. Um, everyone in public works, including myself, spent time behind it. Uh, I spent a day out behind it as well. Um, we ended up throwing about 32 ton on our streets. It it was probably the best thing um, public works has purchased uh, in the last several years. It worked out well. Uh, I got to see it myself. Thumbs up from the residents out there while we were fixing potholes. Uh, so it was uh it was it was something different. I will say public works is in really good shape compared to me. Um, they uh they can really hustle. So the guys do a really good job. Uh, water wastewater wise, every spring they flush hydrants. Uh, a little over 400 of them. Uh, there were seven of them that didn't function properly this year. Uh, they were repaired. Um the other thing that uh proud of German and Parish this year, normally when we work on gate valves in the street, we hire that out because you have to cut asphalt and replace them that way. Uh this year, public works did it five of them ourselves. Uh so and it worked out really well. They turned out great. I went and looked at them after they were done. Uh the guys did a really really good job. Uh, one thing to note in Paris's report uh, this evening is he put in the the the results of the chloride testing in uh, it's the green. You keep going Jody or uh, Jenny. One more. One more. There you go. So what everyone's looking at there are the results of the chloride that it was sampled three times a week for a month in each one of the lift stations. Uh the the number in red 354 is our limit from the MPCA. Uh you can see some were over, some were under. uh when the numbers uh were all put together and and Parish idled them all down, we were able to this this last fall, we had sent out a letter to our residents to try and maybe look at softeners, water softeners. We'll come in and work with them on them. Uh there was actually a 3% reduction in chloride after doing just that letter. Um the numbers you see here are not diluted. They're very strong at the lift stations. Once you start mixing everything together and come to the plant, that's where the MPCA sees that number. And the reason why we're bringing this up again is we want council to recognize that we are very close to that limit. Uh we're holding steady. We have not gone over, but I want you all very aware of where we're at with it. Um, and this all leads into all the other discussions we've had with uh, you know, possibly uh, adding on to water plant and whatnot. We're being very visible uh, on it. Um, yeah, with that, I guess I can answer any questions this evening. >> Sorry, since we're right on the screen here, it's perfect. >> Yes. So, I mean, when you look at these different stations and you just universally applied a limit of 354 to each station. >> No. Oh, >> so so 354 milligrams per liter is what the MPCA says we cannot be over >> at the wastewater treatment facility. And again, chlorides are mainly put in that water by your water softeners. So what we did is when we sent out that letter was offered the residents, we can come in and take a look. We can help you set them up. I I think there were a lot I think a lot of folks did it on their own. uh it it it created recognition of what's going on in their home. Um I think we were at uh I think nine or 10 homes. We went to nine or 10. Um it it became more of an educational process. And originally we had set aside 100,000 a year for three years to do like a softener program. with this. I think we can push that out because with this result to show a slight decrease. Again, we're not going over it. It I hope council understands it. It It's a line we don't want to cross. I can't tell you when it's going to happen. All of this is uh my parish here. He could explain it as well. It's something a limit's a limit and we have no control over what's coming into the plant other than the education that yes, your softeners are creating that problem. So, we're hanging in there. We're still under it. We did see a slight reduction um in chloride and we're hoping that uh it'll continue on that trend. So when you when you look at, you know, let's just say I don't care, the ambassador lift station >> and you and you took it three different three different months there or whatever else, but I mean >> three three times per week in in the Yep. >> Does that does that take into account how many homes, so to speak, are hooked up to it at all? You know what I'm saying? >> No, I do. I do, Mayor. Um, no, it doesn't. That is just one of the nine. And you take all of that and you put it all together and it comes into one pipe into the plant. We were what we're trying to do is differentiate where the majority of our chloride is coming from. And yes, it I guess sir, yes, if you back into that, yes, that lift station will will say that yes, that say the Turtle Run neighborhood is using, you know, or their softeners maybe are using more salt than the rest of the city. I guess that yes, in in a way you do kind of narrow it down in that way, >> but I mean, you know, just if if the Ambassador lift station had a thousand people on it and Vista pray or the Deer Creek only had 500 people on it, you know, you know what I'm saying? It would it would >> I do and and that is true in in this case Delwood lift station has has a lot fewer users on it than the Arrowhead uh lift station or Turtle Run. Uh so yes, it's it but in the end it comes into one pipe. So yeah. >> Any other questions for Paul? [clears throat] >> I just I just wanted to say good job on the the the tar on my street. You guys did a great job fixing that. >> I was actually out on your street. >> Were you there was there it was really really >> Yeah. really helpful. So thank you for that. there. >> There was a lot of a lot of holes and a lot of You even did the the cracks that >> we did. We did. We actually this year we we fixed the cracks as well. Um and there's something to note and Jeremy has it in his report. We'll use that trailer one more spring and it will have paid for itself. So, it was a it was a good call >> because what what is the cost on that? >> The trailer? >> Yeah. I think it was between 40 and 50,000 originally, but when when the city was always using cold patch before and this we run down to St. Paul and we grab actually I think it's two and a half ton at a shot and a pallet of cold patch was approximately 1,200 to $1,400 >> a trailer which is about a ton a trailer of 2 and a half ton is 10% of that. >> Oh it works better. >> What's that? >> And it works better. >> Much better. Much better. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Thank you. >> Joel, Kevin, Sarah, anything? >> I got a question. Um, >> yes, sir. >> So, one one thing, well, a statement and a question, I guess. So the one thing that the residents do need to understand why this is serious and why there is money being put away for you to educate people is because the cost if we do go over those limits and the state says you need a desalinization situation it is extremely insanely costly for the residents or the people on that system. Um if they say we need to build something it is it's going to be ridiculous. So um very So that being said, what is the I guess I don't know I I understand the chlor chloride in the water and all that stuff, but what is the state afraid of if we exceed those limits? Like what is the danger or the detriment to the environment, so to speak, if that happens? >> So good question. So Mayor Council, one teaspoon of chloride in five gallons creates a hazard. Nothing can live in salt salt water. Everything everything that we have in Minnesota is salt-free. Any plant life, if if if chloride gets too heavy, it kills the plant life. It kills fish that freshwater fish, not saltwater fish, obviously. Um and that's why they're [clears throat] so particular about it. And if Paris were here, he would say that the MPCA put this limit on in the 12th hour of the last minute and the last seconds when that plant was being built. And it's a tight limit. It's a very tight limit and it's something we cannot change. We work with we work with our representative at the MPC to watch it. Uh they're aware of this. Um but it's a it's a very tight limit. So and and yes, they're correct. The only way that you correct that problem is you go to the beginning. You we would have to eliminate all water softeners in town and put a RO plant or RO facility on top of our plant up here um on our water plant. That's the only way to correct it. So, one of the things that Parish and I do talk about with uh the MPCA is one thing that we do get concerned about is car washes in town. That also creates a problem because that goes into the drain that goes right into the the sanitary sewer that heads right to the plant. Uh that is why those numbers you see are not during the winter time because we have two car washes in town, the county market and quick trip >> and holiday. >> I'm sorry. And yes, sir. And Holiday and that that does go directly to the plant. And that is one thing we're arguing and and and and our hired engineer is also aware of that we talk to MPCA about regularly is how can we be responsible for the salt or for the chloride that goes into our system from a car wash. It's brought up that's something we're we're constantly I'm not going to say arguing because you don't argue with MPCA but it's something that we constantly discuss. Yes, ma'am. So, >> because the the car washes aren't using using softened water. It's just the the salt that's on. >> Correct. And then they actually do use softened water because they don't water spots. >> Uh that so they so that's also something that we've talked about is talking to the businesses including Vista Prairie. Um but yes, the amount of salt that's on a vehicle is tremendous. And when you see those long lines, all that salt that's getting washed off is going in the system. Yes. And people that are not on city water it what can they do at home can they do the same thing and limit their salt or does it not matter or >> so that's completely separate um that's actually a good question uh the people that they have their own sewer systems and and yes that that I wouldn't recommend uh um setting your water softener super high anyway salt is hard on the ground and it's hard on ground water but um yeah that's completely separate issue Okay. >> Anybody anything else for Paul? >> Go ahead, Kevin. >> Paul, um, is there any way to enhance the cooperation about the softener? Should be some signage, pick a corner near one of the these pump stations you're talking about or any way to enhance it? I mean, we we talk about this continually here, but how how better way to get the word out? >> Yes. So, Mayor Councel, the mayor's got a good idea on this and we're working on it. Uh, one of the one of the things it's it seems that those Tik Tok videos, the the the memes, we are that's what we're headed toward uh on our social media and and I think they've in other cities they've had really good um response to that and I think we need to try it too. And we've got one that's one that's started with our snowplow truck. We've got that one done. The next one is a salt. It's just um I'm not gonna say that we're not creative at public works, but we're working. So, >> hook up with the fire department. They've got a good PR person. [laughter] She does a really good job. Good job. My second question is you took a visit to Champlain not too long ago and looked at the mystery media change out. How did that go and what did you learn? >> Excellent question. Uh mayor and council. Yes. Uh we did. We were down uh we were down in Champlain. They're doing our media their media change out which is similar exactly what we're going to have to do. >> This is the media that we were talking about a year ago. >> The green sand. Yes, sir. So, so it it trended for them. It trended a little less expensive than what they had thought. I think they're going to be somewhere between 6 and 700,000 if I remember correctly. Uh our plants are about the same size. Uh and it wasn't near as a big deal as what at least I had thought. uh they back everything out and they put it right back in. And it's a process, but it wasn't as bad as um we were a little concerned. I mean, our media is on a second floor, you know, in our plant. And after seeing the way they did it, Parish and I are near as concerned now. So, and it is trending to be less expensive. And I actually should double back at this point and see if they're done and where they landed. Excellent question. So, but again, we were talking an exorbitant amount of money that was supposed to be $60,000 and then it turned out to be hundreds of thousands of dollars. So, where where are we at in that regard? >> Correct. So, so I actually hired or we hired an engineer to get us that price. We went from 60 to 800. Those are the correct numbers. It was at 60 sitting in the CIP and I brought it to 800. That's the truth. It looks like it's going to land between 6 and 700 now after watching a a plant. So, we're very close, >> but it's a must do. And you had no way to see down the road that this was coming. >> Correct. So So mayor and council, that sand has a shelf life and our plant is nearing the end of it. It's an appreciable item. So it's nearing to the point now where we're going to have to replace it. Am I going to say four years? Maybe five's pushing it. But and the parishes, they're watching that right now. That's all part of it. So again, excellent question. Okay, that's all I have. Thank you very much. >> I have one more question, Paul. For you said that you're closer to like 6 to 700,000 for that project, >> correct? >> Do you have any like number, you know, written out estimates or or anything that we could see or at what point will we see that? >> So, so originally we had hired an engineering firm that does this regularly to give us that estimate. Again, this is a CIP. This was done a couple of years ago. Uh, I'm not going to say guesstimate, but in in a way it kind of is because you don't know what you're going to run into again. Look at all your costs have changed from 10 years ago, right? And and they don't go down. They only go up. And some of the hidden unknowns were if we have some radioactive sand, is it going to be more expensive? Um, as it turns out, it doesn't sound like that's as big a deal as what it was. And that was one of the concerns with the engineering firm as well. So, we're we're in the process right now. We will refine that. I I I don't have an answer again to to pull that out of the air and and to guess. I would rather not guess and I'd rather error on on the more money than lower money because nobody likes to hear you're way over budget. Uh they'd rather hear yes, we're actually under what we originally um you know had had set aside. So, >> all right. Thank you. Mhm. >> Anybody? Anything else? Thanks, Paul. >> You're welcome. >> On [clears throat] to the police department report. >> Republic partner. >> Thanks, Jenny. >> Um, this is an overview of police department activity for the second quarter of 2026. Uh, it's been an active spring and early summer as it usually is at the police department. Um, we had just over 2,000 generated incidents for the quarter which included just over 800 traffic stops and 244 citations were issued. Most of them for traffic related offenses. Um, and remember this that 2,000 calls is broken down into group A and group B offenses which are reported to the FBI for the uniform crime report. And the higher highest amount falls under the group B which is all other incidents. Um, and that's our less serious um, more run-of-the-mill calls. U, medical, accidents, animal complaints. Um, so those those first group A and group B offenses are the ones we want to see lower. Those are the more serious offenses, assaults, um, DWIs, burglaries, things like that. Uh, there were 50 cases referred to our department investigator, including 26 child protection intake reports, um, and six adult abuse or neglect related reports. And I would say the the child uh protection intake reports were definitely on the higher side during this quarter. Uh and we do work with the child protection um workers on those types of cases. Officers completed 166 hours of training during the quarter. Uh and that's in addition to the uh several months of training that officer Bark and our K9 Victor put in um March through June um getting their K9 certification. Uh, as always, the quarter was very busy with community events, including the sixth annual citizens academy, our dog clinic in May, and the 10th annual bike rodeo, which were all very successful this year. Uh, we do have several more events to go throughout the remainder of the year, including our national night out, of course, in early August. Um, our stay home safe program, and Cone with the Cop also in August. And then we have, um, Santa in December. And probably just the highlight of the second quarter was really getting this K9 program off the ground after about a year and a half of planning. Um, our K9 Victor is now on fold duty um with his with his partner and they've had at least one domestic assault uh suspect flee a home um so far and had a track um did not uh find the individual, but it was concluded that they had probably left that area or was picked up a vehicle prior to our officers arriving. So, um, we're chalking that one up to not being Victor's fault. But, um, they they continue to train. They continue to, um, just get better at what they do and, uh, they've been a great addition so far. It's going to be really exciting to see how this team develops over the next couple years, the benefits they they're going to bring to this community. So, um, it's going to be fun to watch and they're doing really really well. Um, so that's really a brief overview of the activity for the quarter and I can answer any questions. >> Anybody questions for Todd? I don't have any questions, but once again, um I attended the the bike rodeo and it's it's always so fun to see the community engagement there. Um our our volunteers who who uh make that happen. It's it's great that they put in that extra time for our community because it's a a good community building time. >> Plus, when the chief talks the talk and walks the walk, he's flipping burgers and dogs back there himself. So, I did pretty good. I thought >> I didn't see him on a bike. I don't know about you. [laughter] >> Need to have him right. >> Amy or Joe. Any >> I don't at this time. >> No question. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thanks. Thanks very much. Council member reports. Uh we'll start with Joe. >> All right. I don't have a ton to report. Um thanks all to all the departments. Um everybody working on the budget including our contracting services. um do appreciate all you guys everything you do and please pass that on to the employees as well. >> Thanks Joel Amy. >> Um uh let's see. I attended to the school board meeting last week, last Monday. It was a special meeting. Um it wasn't they usually don't have a meeting in the beginning of July, but they had a special meeting because of the the stadium and the um sinkholes there. And it was decided at that time to um uh to do temporary repairs and um continue with the fall sports for this fall um at the stadium because there was a lot of concerns that the seniors weren't going to get to play at their any of their home um stadium um this year any games at their home stadium. So that was what was decided and so that was good and they're going to after the fall events they're going to figure out what to do at that point. So, so that's good. Um, and then I just wanted to well, first of all clarify, what did we decide about the flop cameras? We're going to bring it back next time and >> as soon as we can get the As soon as we can get the call. >> Oh, we're going to ask the county to come back. Yes. And then that just brought to mind to the data centers that we talked about maybe a few weeks ago. Um, were we going to get some more information on that on what we should do? Do we need anything in our code to allow them, not allow them? I don't know where I sit with this, but I just it's again talked about in the news a lot with other cities making changes and I'm just wondering what did we decide there? Did we decide anything? >> We need to have a further as of right now they're not allowed. >> So, um, >> if council is interested in discussing opening that, I would [clears throat] say we need to then bring further information. So, I guess it's up to you if you want to provide direction. to consider it. We can definitely bring some more information. We don't have it scheduled yet, but we can pull data together. >> Well, and that's that's probably okay. I just didn't Again, I don't know how I feel about it, but I um I just wanted to make sure that we weren't going to be forced to take one because we didn't have something written in our code to to to disallow them if and again, maybe maybe it's a good thing to have. I I don't know. But I I I didn't want to be in the same position that I felt that we were in with the uh the cell phone tower where we were told we we don't have choice. So um so as long as they are not allowed at this time obviously then we have more say if if we want to choose that. >> Correct. So, if an application was to come forward, um, we would have to change one of the zoning districts to allow it, and that would be on your higher end of discretion. So, Beth always shows the table of discretion or the triangle of discretion. Um, so that would be the point where you would determine if that's something you want in a zoning district and then what type of standards you would want for that. So, so as of right now, they're not allowed. We don't have anybody asking about them up here. >> Okay. >> But um if one was to come forward, then your first question would be, are you willing to change the zoning district to allow it? And that's where you get the greatest amount of say. If you were to put it in the zoning code that we allow it with X, then you're pretty much if they if they met all of X, you have to. So >> yeah, >> right now you actually have the greatest amount of discretion to deter. >> Okay. >> I think I remember you saying that. I just needed a reminder. So, thank you. >> That's all, >> Sarah. >> I don't have really anything to uh report, but I do want to thank all the residents [clears throat] who came out tonight and spoke to us. It's always good to hear from you. Um whether you can make it to meetings or not. Um feel free to reach out to any of us. We're always willing for that. >> Thanks, sir. Kevin, >> I attended three different interviews with Jody for the Planning Zoning Commission. I want to welcome Tina Carol as a new newest commissioner. It's important work. It doesn't seem like it seems menial at times, but it's been very important. So, and the other candidates are also interviewed. Their opportunity will come probably sooner than later. I also has attended the Rem Fire District uh board meeting. And then, uh this Wednesday, I'll be accompanying the chief to the joint law enforcement council meeting as well. >> Thanks, Kevin. Uh I got to do a couple fun things. Darcy's retire Darcy's retirement party. Uh, I also got to read at the library. They asked me to come and read as the mayor at the library. So, that was kind of fun. Rum River Fire District meeting, as Kevin alluded to. I also watched the planning and zoning. I I just like to watch watch those meetings to know what's going on. So, I think several of us watch those. And so, then lastly, I got just kind of a request. So, on Wednesday, July 29th, I'm not able to make this, but it's the local government An NOA county's an NOA county's meeting down there and they're going to be talking about the safe city program that that we're asking the sheriff to come back here. So, if anybody's available on Wednesday, July 29th, the invite should have been in all your emails, but it's from the LGA and they are going that is one of their major discussion items that night. There's not a whole lot else on the agenda that night, but that is one of them talking about their safe city and the drone program and all that. So, somebody's able to attend that, I'd greatly appreciate it on Wednesday, July 29th. I can get you the details if you want. Uh, other than that, I don't have anything else except as Sarah pointed out, national night out is August 4th. So, that'll be over here in the city park. So, definitely promote that. Other than that, the other things are on there. Oh, I also did attend a uh on the smoky hot night, but I did attend I did attend the farmers market and so there wasn't a huge crowd that night, but I think the smoke and heat that deterred a lot of people. So, still still a good healthy number of vendors there, a lot of products. So, kudos to you and Jackson for putting that all together. So, other than that, that's all I have. Anybody else? Anything else? Hearing none. Do I have a motion for adjournment? Oh, I want to say one other quick thing. Sorry, not to extend this anymore, but to to Mike Paul Mike Mike's point here. I know it a long meeting and I know some meetings go long, but I think there were some really good discussions tonight about multiple topics and I'm glad everybody was able to keep it respectful and I just thought it was a very good discussion. So I I appreciate all of you and I appre appreciate particularly the people showing up, listening and and participating. So thank you all. So saying that, do I have a motion for adjournment? >> Make a motion. >> Motion by Councilman Robinson. Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Second by Councilman Fis. Roll call vote, please. >> Mayor Bogle, >> I. >> Council members Melbour. >> Fis. >> Uvig. >> I. >> Robinson. >> I. Meeting adjourned at 8:20