I'll see there's some left. I don't think anyone's going. Call the order meeting on Monday, December 1st, 2025 at 6:00 p.m. Please rise for the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Roll call, please. Jenny. >> Mayor Vogle, >> here. >> Council members Robinson >> here. >> Uvig here. Fis >> here. >> Neilbower >> here. >> On to the approval of tonight's agenda. Do I have a motion? >> I'll make that motion, Mr. May. >> Motion by Councilman Mualler. Do I have a second? >> A second, mayor. >> Second by Councilman Robinson. Uh, all those in favor signify by saying I. >> I oppose. Same sign. Agenda passes. On to the consent agenda. Do I have a motion to approve tonight's consent agenda? >> I'll make that motion, Mr. Mayor. >> Motion by Councilman Udvig. Do I have a second? I'll >> second, Mayor. >> Second by Councilman Robinson. Any discussion? And I appreciate Kevin. I appreciate and Jenny sending out the application on so we could just see see the new new person. And that's really all I've got on that. So uh do I have uh all those in favor signify by saying I >> I pull the same sign on to meeting open to the public. So there will be also be two more meeting two more open public sessions. One will be after the presentation about the budget and then there's a one later in the meetings. But anybody who wishes to speak can feel free to come forward. Just state what you want to speak speak about. Hey Barb. >> Um I'm Barb Anderson. I live in St. Francis and I meant to call city hall but I forgot. just to thank the public works people for the quick work they did on the cleaning the streets after the snow stuff. I even went into the side areas and it was really nice. That's all. Thank you. >> Thank you, Barb. Anybody else? Mike. >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. Mike Roger, St. Francis. Um, I'm kind of looking through these bills that we paying this month and um, I'm looking at one in here for 131,62 uh, two cents um, to West to Metro West inspections. Can you tell me what's that's for? That is the contract we have for the building official. And the big one on there was Metro or Vista Prairie. So that's why it's so big this month. >> I figured that's why we had a building inspector that we pay fulltime here. Is that correct? Or >> I'll let Kate Mayor. So with with the fees to Metro West, they are under contract for 50% of >> Can you Sorry. Can you just speak to a microphone please >> of the plan review? Um so we are under a contract with them is our building official is a limited and that was also a state facility with the assisted living and the memory care. So we used Metro West for Vista Prairie. They are uh they bill us and then they obtain 50% of the total permit fees. So they do not get paid unless there's a project in which the permit requires them. So it's not out of pocket. It's paid for by the permit itself. >> Is is that something that the developer pays in in the long run part of the permit fees? >> Yes, mayor and council. It is it is 50% of those permit fees. >> Okay. There was one more in here that I looked at. I see there's like a $26,775 for a Ferguson power pump for dewatering. Do we know what that's about? Ear council, that's me. Yes, we do. Uh the dewatering process is where we remove the water from the the solids or the the the holding tanks at public works. It's it's done once a year. Um and they press it out. We and then we we transfer all the bioolids out to local local area where they can spread out in fields. That's what that's for. >> Thank you, sir. >> Um there's a couple more. It just seemed that this month's uh bills were quite extravagant compared to other months. Um like Barnaguzzi, there's a few bills in there for civil legal fees. Do we know what that's about? Mayor and council. So, we're under contract with BGS. Uh these bills are related to all of the matters both civil and criminal that we would be requesting them from documents to uh criminal reviews and proceedings with the police department. >> Thank you, Kate. Um, there was one more in here I saw for to a gill by the name of I think her name was Mary Wells for >> mayor and council that is u half of our uh assessing contract. So we pay Mary Wells and Eric Skolquist and they each get half of it. >> Perfect. Thank you. Anybody else wish to speak at this time? Okay, seeing none, on to the public hearing for the proposed budget 2026 proposed budget presentation. Darcy. Okay. Good evening, Mayor, council, residents, and staff. Before you tonight is the 2026 proposed levy and budget. After the presentation, the mayor needs to open up the meeting to allow for public input. After that segment is done, council can then approve the final levy and the budget, which would then the levy would be sent to the county to be placed on the tax roles in 2026. Each year the budget the budget goals for the city are to maintain high quality cost-effective public services and address priorities set by city council and maintain a strong fiscal position. So the budget process is a very a long process. We start way early in the year by just estimating salaries. Then we go through the departments all do their own budgets and submit that. They can they enter it right into our uh financial software. Then I look at estim revenue estimates. What are we going to get for uh LGA? Anything else? Um we do debt service amounts. I figure that out. The capital budgets, you know, we do the capital the CIP in the summer. Um the department heads requ give us back their information. We then I get then it's all compiled to see what levy we need to pay for everything. Then in September we set the preliminary levy which we did last September. That then is certified to the county which then generates those public those notices that came out a couple weeks ago. And then in December, we set the final levy and budget. So the how do we how are property c taxes calculated in Minnesota? It's kind of a long drawn out process. First, the assessors determine the values of the houses. They work with the county and they get the values. The work that's done in 2024 sets the value for the notices that are sent out in spring of 2025. That then is used for your 2026 taxes. So if you if anybody had a problem with their value, that notice comes out in the spring and then you have to go to Anoka County to talk to them about what they what they was valued at. So then the levies are set by all the different boards, the city, the school district, the county. They all of them set their individual levies in September and then the county pulls them all together um to get an overall tax rate, but tonight we're only talking about the city's portion. Um the third thing that needs to be calculated is fiscal disparities which is um a program for the seven county metro area. It started way back in 1971 and it places 40% of any new value into this common pool and that is taxed at a at a rate and then spread to all the pe those entities in that seven county metro area based on population and and levy. So we put some money in but we get more out. So in net out of that we come out on the better end. Okay. So our tax rate our preliminary tax levy as set in September was $7,180,000. We take off the fiscal disparities that we'll receive of $1,169,310 that's removed to bring us down to what is called the spreadable levy which is $6,10,690 for 2026. Then you have to find your tax capacity value which for the city is 10,595,593. You take off of there that amount that we have to put into fiscal disparities and there's another little adjustment and that totals $486,715 which equals our adjusted tax capacity value of 10,142,316. Then the next step is to then take that spreadable levy of $6,10,690 divided by the tax capac adjusted tax capacity of 10,14242,316 to equal a tax rate for 2026 of 59.263%. >> Can I ask a question? >> Yep. Um, so the tax capacity value that 10 million, 10.5 million, is that all of the properties in St. Francis all added up like the property values? >> Yes, but it's not estimated market value. So estim for a residential home, the estimated market value is taken times a percentage to come down to your tax capacity. So our estimated market value is a lot more for the city. >> Okay? So there there's different classifications and commercial and industrial is treated separately than than um residential. So it's very it's it's a complicated process actually in Minnesota. So a couple weeks ago taxpayers would have received their proposed tax notice. Here's an example of one. Um, in this notice, the first thing I would look at is that value that is going to generate where what your taxes are. And it gives you the value that you were in 2025 and your value that's you are in 2026. And you can see this home actually dropped a little bit. Another thing that is interesting on it is then we have this Mark Homestead exclusion which came into play several years ago. Um they start it starts off at get to my notes here. $38,000 for a home that is valued at $95,000 or less. that is removed from their estimated market value. But if your home is worth more than $95,000, the amount over the 95,000 is taken times 9% and that's removed from that market value exclusion. So in other words, when you get down to a house that is worth $517,200, you've lost all market value exclusion. Um, so when your value of your house goes up by the assessor, you lose you're you're not only does your value go up, but you lose market value exclusion. So then the next thing that you look at is there's a line item on there that is the city of St. Francis uh taxes only for this property. And you can see they were 1 million $1,358.28 in 2025 and in 2026 they will be paying in city taxes $1,44544. So they did go up. There was there is a second page to that tax statement. It's just the it's the uh tax levies for all the different entities within the county of Anoka. It's justformational purposes. So, this uh slide shows you different valued homes. Um their tax capacity. That's where you can see that you know a $200,000 home. their tax capacity is 100 $1,715. That's what's taken times the tax rate, not the estimated market value. Um, and it shows there what they would have paid in 2025 versus what they are scheduled to pay in 2026. And then the uh down at the bottom it shows the difference in the tax levies. remember that since you you took away the storm water fee and added that in here, some of those you would have to adjust by that $72 because they know those properties no longer have to pay the $72. Um, and then one note is uh median home value house in St. Francis for 2026 is $321,300. So the levy is made up by different components. The county only sees that there's the general component and then the debt service components. We break it down farther that general levy. We've broken it down into that the operating like the the general fund receives $4,535,000 next year. There's another $50,000 that's going in there, but that's that tax abatement to Vista Prairie that we will have to they'll submit once they've paid their taxes and then we'll reimburse them. Uh there's the capital equipment is 175,000 in 26. Now that dropped because I had to move some of that money. What we've been talking about had fire department in there. I moved that from the capital equipment fund into the general operating because now we're just making those transfers to the fire district as of the first of the year. Uh parks is at 250,000. There's building improvements for 50,000. That storm water that I talked to that we moved the from a feebased into the levy is 300,000. And then the street improvement is 720,000 for a total general levy of $6,80,000. And we have two debt service levies. There's the 2017 debt which is the um refunded issue on the lease purchase for the police public works building. And then there's 790,000 and that is for this building. So that comes down to the total levy of 7,180,000. Um Darcy, can I ask one more question? We might have to go back one. That that line where it says um the storm water fee um and it's $300,000. Can you go over that again and how that affected our percentage at the bottom? >> Yes. I forgot uh somebody asked earlier. If we hadn't done the 300,000, our increase in our tax levy would only be 11.24% or $665,000. >> And the 300,000 isn't a new a new tax or fee. It's the storm water the bills that we would send them a statement and they had to pay the $80 or or whatever it was. So that's not new. It's just new to being in this format. >> Yes. Yes. Okay. So we moved from a feebased to a levy based and that's why the fund is also moving from a enterprise fund to a capital because um just the component of how it's going to receive its money from now on. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So then this slide just shows you that calculation that I went through um or the different levies and the total calculation and the tax rate um minus the fiscal disparities and um like I say the overall levy is going up by $995,000. Uh I just want to show that the 10-year history of what our levy has done. Um here, you know, um this is the total levy. So we're at the $7,180,000 in 2026. And I'm going to move on into the general fund. Um first of all, I'll talk about the revenue budget. The total budget is $6,498,250. This is includes taxes which includes the current and delinquent amounts. Licenses and permits which includes building permits, fines and forfeits which includes amounts passed on through the state. Intergovernmental which includes LGA and police aid amounts. Charges for services includes admin fees from other funds and the fire services contract with BETHL. Right now we h in 2026 we still have a contract with BETHL that we are going to continue. So that money is going to come into the general fund but it's going to get transferred out to the fire district moving forward that it will they will the fire district will submit a request to both cities and that will be what will come into the fire district. Um, and then the miscellaneous category, which includes interest in cable TV revenues. There's also a transfer of $70,000 from the liquor store, of which $15,000 is for Pioneer Day Fireworks. So this slide shows you our second biggest uh revenue source in the general fund is our LGA or local government aid. And you can see it's been steadily increasing. We lost it most of it for several years back before this slide starts. Um, we are get seeing just a $2,000 increase next in that. >> Why did we Why did we lose it before this chart started? >> The state took away LGA for a the all the cities basically. A lot of the cities lost their LGA and some of them in the middle of a year. It was a tough couple years >> and it could happen again. >> Uhhuh. >> Yep. that was how they balanced their budget at the time. >> If they can balance their budget, >> um moving forward on the other side, the general fund expenditures, uh that is at $6,568,250. This includes general government which includes council, administration, finance, legal, public safety includes the police and fire, public works which includes streets and recycling, culture and recreation which includes parks and pioneer days. Community development which includes planning and zoning and building inspections and then miscellaneous is for amounts allocated to not allocated to any other department. So the total increase in the expendure but expenditure budget is $817,250. Of this amount, personal costs are about $260,000. So the budget is balanced at $6,568,250. Going back you know uh just talking about those categories the general government uh includes the administration departments along with legal auditing assessing the budget is managed here city codes elections council boards uh the public safety includes that police and fire response in town and all of the other educational opportunities the other services that they reply or respond to. Um, come on. Uh, streets and recycling, you know, our snow and ice control, our street lighting, tree trimming, recycle day, street maintenance, all of that falls in that category. Uh, parks and trails is it uh uh except for like the new equipment, we have the park fund for that. This is the maintenance of the playgrounds, the ball fields, um skating rinks, all of that. And then community development includes the building permit inspections, economic development, rental license, vacant vacant building registrations. And then we have the debt service that we talked about. Now remember the debt service that those that debt service that I talked about is only the ones that have a levy associated with it. The rest of the debt service the city has that is with water and sewer. Those are accounted for in the water and sewer funds. So we don't have a levy on any of that. And we have some other funds there. We have the special revenue fund. There's one that's a police forfeite fund. That's just if they have a forfeite, the money goes in there. The those debt service funds and then all the capital funds that we have in the city for different uh things. And then we have the enterprise funds which we're we're setting the budget for tonight. We've talked about the water and sewer rates before. um those those generate their own fees to pay for their fund. Okay. So, we have the water, the wastewater, and then the liquor fund. Um I would then say uh I a new thing was this kind of estimated tax bill. There's a packet of these. They're back on the table. I don't know if anybody picked them up. We also put them online. So, what I did was the mayor had seen an article on it. U Shakape did this taxpayer receipt just to kind of show you out of your taxes what your your bill is paying for, how much is going to the different um little departments and stuff in there. Um you now I can't do every scenario because values don't stay the same. So one sheet it would be values staying the same and I'm not thinking that most values will any values would stay the same. So >> could you tell them real quick where to find it on the site on the website if they want? >> Yeah, if you go out to the city of St. Francis uh stancesmn.gov gov and then you'd go under departments and you'd go under finance and you put it under supporting documents was this page and then come January February somewhere in there the full budget will be online um we have an online budget version with that we use but right now there's a little proposed budget that's online under that's in that same area. So, I'd leave it up to council has any questions. Otherwise, I would ask the mayor to open up them for public input. >> Okay. At this time at 6:27, we'll open open the meeting up to the public. Again, we're at this point in time, we're want you to speak about the budget, the proposed levy. Uh there will be another opportunity later on if you have other issues you want to speak about as well. So please step forward, just state your name. I'm assuming you're a resident, but just say if you're a resident. >> I am. I'm a resident. My name is Pete Dubois. Um I'm wondering how uh tax capacity is determined because my capacity has not increased to pay by almost 15% is what mine has gone up this year. My you know that's that's a lot. you know, the the value of my property went up 4%. I thought that was a little bit tall this year, but okay. All right. I'll hang in there. But for my taxes to go up almost 15%, that's that's for me that's not my capacity to pay. It's where's that capacity come from? >> So, are you talking an o your overall bill? >> I'm talking about the city with you if you look at school and this for for just the line item that's the budget, it's almost 15% mine went up. So that is determined by your value. Um >> but 15 the value only went up 4%. >> But you lose that market value exclusion. So it kind of hit you doubly. >> I lose what market value exclusion? >> I just So when >> get a homestead credit, is that what you're talking about? That went down somewhat. Yes. >> Yes. You lose part of that. So more of your >> Doesn't make up the difference of the 15% though. It simply doesn't. So, I think that the increase has exceeded what makes sense on my tax form as far as the value of my home that's gone up and the decrease in the homestead tax credit. 15% is a lot to go up in one year and it I have to pay that every year. It's not like it goes away next year that continues plus whatever has to go up the following years. So, I think in a year where um real estate values have leveled a little bit, insurance costs have doubled for some people, uh the expenses for me to keep up the property has gone up quite a bit. I think uh the tax capacity doesn't take into account the ability for people to pay that taxes. I think that's the piece that's missing. The capacity is a a numbers game. Um it's it's like this is the budget. Okay, what's the capacity for everybody to pay based on dividing that budget across all of the values of the of the real estate in the in the city? I don't think it it relates to what's fair for me to pay as far as an increase in one year. I think it's excessive. I understand it's a hard job. There's a lot that we have to pay for. I really appreciate the services, but it's unrealistic to exceed it by that much at a time when everything else is costing so much. I I just don't quite understand how you can do that. So, that's my complaint. But I I appreciate what everybody's doing here. It's a very difficult job, but my capacity to pay has nothing to do with uh the real estate capacity to pay. It's what you determine through numbers. Not what's reasonable and fair based on everything that's going on in people's lives today. you know, there might need to look at some things that, you know, maybe there's some improvements that should wait. Maybe there's some things that shouldn't be in the budget. I know you've gone through a very difficult process to pull that all together. I've done large budgets myself, but this is not a good time for people to have a a increase of 15% or if you include the county 16.9% or whatever it is. That's a lot in one year. and we continue to pay that every year plus whatever increases are going to happen in future years. So that's my concern is that you need to think about our ability to pay. It's unfair I think to raise it that much in one year and we're looking at increases in in continuing years because costs are going to go up every year. So I know it's even though my value goes up for it to exceed it by that much just doesn't make sense. >> And that's what I have to say. So >> appreciate that. I just want to time in something that she explained earlier too. It trust me it's still too high in my opinion in addition to that but some of that is because of the MS4 permit that we were billing out separately. >> I don't quite understand what that means. >> MS4 was the uh >> I can explain it. >> You were billing it out separately meaning it was still hitting on a separate line item as far as our tax. >> No, we were actually sending out for every parcel in the city of St. Francis, we were sending out a a bill >> for 72 to $100 somewhere in that. I don't know. >> It started out at $60 and it's been 72 for a couple years. >> So, some of that just like I said, I >> So, we're talking increase of hundreds of dollars for me. Okay, that's >> that I understand that. Um, but it it it really it's it's not something that's sustainable for people to continue at that rate. And I know that in the future costs aren't going to get better. They're rising. Inflation's going up. So, it's it's going to be an increase next year, too. And my property value is going to go up as well, which is great if I sell it. Not if I'm paying taxes, though. So, um I just want to let you know that it you have to take into account what people are are paying for just specifically for the real estate upkeep, insurance. Um it's it's a lot. So, and you add taxes to it, it's like, "Holy cow, you know, I gotta I gotta Well, I said enough, but >> I know you did a good job. You said you hit the nail on the head." >> Okay. >> You just can't you can't have anything nice anymore. I've actually thought about mine as well over $1,000. And, you know, I've been there eight years. I think it started at 5100. Now it's over $6,800. I don't think I can live there anymore. >> How much taxes on my real estate percentage wise is too much? Where's the top? Where are we going to stop? There has to be some reason given to increase it beyond we have to spend the money. It's what's reasonable. Yes, we have services we have to get. Uh fire, police, safety, roads. I get all that, but um it it's just it just seems unreasonable to me. So, all right. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Hello, Tina Carol. Um, just a quick question first. What uh what is LGA and what does that actually cover? >> LGA is local government aid. It's a state program. They they go through and they give us that money. There's um different formulas that determine how much we'll get and that just goes into the general fund. So that lowers that part of the levy. >> Okay. So >> if we didn't get that, we would have to raise our levy. >> Okay. So, it's not divied out to a specific program or department or anything. It's just in general. Okay. Um, then a couple of other questions. I noticed that you put on there that Vista Prairie, that abatement is $50,000 a year for next year. So, is that going to stay $50,000 for the next 10 years? And how is that going to affect us as well? because we have to pay that for 10 years because anybody that knows says they're not going to refinance or sell if they're getting free county taxes for 10 years. It is not going to stay at 50,000. Um the max is $200,000. The reason why it's $50,000 was because it wasn't fully built. So the full value wasn't on there this year. Um, so it could jump another $150,000 and that is >> for 26 >> for uh the for the tax levy for that you said in 26 for 27. Yes. And it's >> so it can't increase over 50,000 for 2026. >> No. No. Once we we we can't raise the levy from what what was set in September tonight except for extraordinary circumstances which would be a bond or like a um a major disaster or something like that. So we cannot raise our levy. They um the bond consultants gave me an estimate of what their city taxes would be for next year that they would be requesting from us and they said it'd be right around the you know4 to $50,000. >> Okay. Um now how does all of this affect the new homes that are being built? because some of them, you know, they're are you taking that into account when you're looking at the um the taxation and what I forget what he what that's called, but the >> tax capacity. >> Thank you. The tax capacity is that being looked at? >> Well, that doesn't affect it. So what is like a house if it's help me with this if it's uh built before or if it's on the done before July of the year then the value would go in for the spring and affect the next year's taxes. So we set a levy. That levy doesn't change based on how many new homes we get in. What that affects is that tax capacity amount when they finally get on. But it takes like a year and a half for that value to hit the tax rules. >> So, but yet they're still paying taxes. they will go a year with very low taxes because um like when they start building it if they're in the middle of building it and it's September there's still taxes kind of a vacant land until they finish that house >> until somebody actually purchases it or the builder actually just finishes building it >> built. Okay. And now how does the tax capacity compare for a resident like a residential home versus a business? Do they actually pay more? >> Yeah, a business would pay more >> like what percentage roughly? >> First, I can't tell you that because it's all based on different things, but like I said before, um any new business coming in, 40% of it goes into that fiscal disparity. So it's taxed at that fiscal disparities amount and then the rest is taxed at our tax rate and then that's distributed back to us. So a business does I can't tell you all the different ins and outs of that one. Residential is very straight kind of straightforward in that it has the value then they get that exclusion which prop uh businesses don't get at all and comes down to that the amount that they take times the tax rate. >> Okay. And how does our increase compare to other cities in the county? Um, you'd have to go back to that that second sheet, >> that back page. >> Um, >> slide 5, page 59. >> Yes. I don't have that. So, >> can you put me back up on the screen? Come on. To this one. If I go back one. So this one shows us the different changes like the county of an NOA is going up 107% >> city of Andover is going up 4.15%. Um East Bethl is going up 3.85 >> so we're quite a bit higher than most of them. >> Lo is going up 16.22%. 22 2%. >> Uh so >> it now then is going up 9%. But you have to remember one of the things I would you know we're going up 16%. But I would take off that storm water fee because >> right >> so you're down to 11%. >> That's 5% of that. So based on what the last resident said that what can we do to look at not doing some of the improvements because as everybody knows everything goes up and I get it but what can we actually hold off on doing to try and keep our cost down because we are just every single one of us is strapped. I mean have you seen the lines at that at that food shelf over here every single week? I mean, there's one in Blaine that I'll admit I used to go to. It made it on the news a few weeks ago because they served the most people they have served since CO they let they actually gave out two and a half semi-truck loads of food because everything is going up so high. They normally have about a block long worth of cars. They had to have cops come in and direct traffic because it was going back into the neighborhoods because it's just everything is so high. We can't afford it anymore. What can we put off that is not necessary to get off of this budget. So, thank you all for what you do, but I would really appreciate anything we can do to hold off Hello. Uh, I'm Marv Marquette. Uh, sorry I haven't been here for probably 25 years uh to a council meeting, so it's a little different now. Um, I appreciate what's been said. Um, and my concern also is the I think uh the tax statements used to a number of years ago if your property tax went up over it actually said on the statement it went up over 10%. you could talk about that. And uh mine's gone up 20.7%. And uh I'm retired or I was hoping to be retired. And uh there's no way, you know, uh most people do their voting by feet, by their feet. And uh at this point I'm looking at I'm going to have to you know you incre the the housing the house increases or you increase the value of the house for tax purposes. But in reality, when you have to pay $100 more in taxes a month, that really decreases the value of your home because people are going to pay taxes rather than the price of the house be coming up $100 more a month on their payment. Uh that's the way I look at it. Uh so in other words, they're just going to have to pay another $100 plus a month on their house payment. And as was already said, everything else has increased so much. And so I would agree if you can find some way to uh lower this budget uh it would be a wise thing to do because people are not going to be able to afford to live even in St. Francis. Uh I've been here I built my own house here uh nearly 30 years ago and things have tripled for sure. Uh, so I'd appreciate your diligence in working on that. Uh, really be a blessing. Thanks. >> Thank you, Mark. >> Thank you for all that you that the council is doing for St. Francis. My name is James Kish. Me and my wife bought a place back in 12 when the market was flat. Paid about 200 for it. Now you say it's worth 550. My taxes went up 21.5% in one year. And be honest, we haven't done a lot to the house. So you're taxing me on unrealized income. You're telling me my house is worth this. Well, just because the real estate industry says the house is worth more every year doesn't make it so. This is a tough pill to take for all of us. So, if you can cut something back, I don't know what it would be. Some kind of improvement. I mean, $1,200. It's over $1,200. I mean, it's just under seven grand to live up here. Obviously, I don't own my property. Thank you. >> Thank you. Hi, my name is Jason Lee. Uh, my property taxes went up 21.7%. And I realize that all ain't on you guys, but I got a $200,000 house I built five years ago, six years ago. Basement ain't even finished. I got it appraised at 583,000. So, how does that work? And then then there's one other thing I wanted to know about this wastewater deal. How much is that for us? How much does that amount to? It ain't listed separate anymore. >> Wastewater runoff. >> The storm water. >> Storm water. >> Okay. So, the storm water was a separate bill that we used to send out and we don't we're not going to be doing that next year. It's part of the tax levy. >> How much is storm water runoff? Um, it's going to vary based on your value of your house. >> There's I live in sand. There's no water running off any place. It's all flat ground right from the my land right out to the street. It's all flat ground. >> So, I mean, how can you charge a wastewater runoff when there is none? >> Well, it's a storm water >> or storm water storm water, waste water, whatever. >> Storm water. I I just want to qualify that it is storm water, not wastewater because that's a whole different thing. Um Paul, do you want to take it a little bit on that? More the >> Yeah, mayor councel if if if your ditches outside of the sewer and water district are included. um wherever there is water shedded from any whether it's sand or not, it doesn't matter what soil type it is, um is considered storm water runoff. That's covered underneath the state from my understanding. So we the city has to collect the money for >> well where is the water run to? I mean, >> yeah, >> it's because the entire city, if it's a state, it's an unfunded state mandate put on the city that basically because we discharge our storm water to an outstanding water resource, which is the Rum River, they put stipulations on us to maintain all of that uh infrastructure. >> We ain't close to the Rum River. >> It's >> there's no way my water's going to run down to the Rum River. >> Yeah. >> Or any place >> geographically. It's not anything that matters where you are or what. We all we all are forced to pay that. >> Well, just like that other fell that got up here, guys trying to retire, you know, and you got taxes of 77,260 and then you throw the damn insurance on there because they keep upping the the value of your house, which is not right. And the the valuation I was going to chime in after the last gentleman too, but I figured >> and I understand you got to go to Anoka for that. >> Yeah, that's one thing is and you want to you can contact our uh tax assessors, >> the city assessors. Yep. >> Um and I know there's a date. I don't know exactly what the date is to talk to the county, but I know >> it's the exact same time as as us. >> Okay. >> It's like six o'clock on December 1st. >> Nice. >> The >> same day. Same day. >> That's that's their that's their levy, but it's comes in the spring. I think it's March >> is there's the um board of equalization and so you would go and talk to that if you are contesting the value on your home. >> So that form came out in the spring. >> That comes out yes in the spring. >> So it gets it gets built up because it goes up one year and a guy says well I guess that ain't too bad. You know how much more could it go up? And then the next year it goes up at 21%. You know, I mean, that's ridiculous. I mean, like somebody was saying, we'll all be in the food line pretty soon. That's all I got, >> Jason. >> Good evening. Thank you for your time and I appreciate it. Tammy D'vorak. I'm a St. Francis resident. So I would just like to my question for the council is what are you guys doing to okay this goes through you can't find anywhere to cut it you go through you've obviously heard all um the increases the amount of increases and how much it's gone through what are we doing to mitigate that growth in the future? What what are we thinking outside the box? How can we help the how how can we help the city have what we need, what we want and and think outside the box. Are you doing community members when you build a budget and can we do extra um things to um foster a budget that doesn't always come from the people who live here? I don't know what that is, but are you got what are you doing to mitigate this level of growth over time? because no none of us even if you guys live here nobody will be able to constantly um be able to afford 16% 20% growth each year every year like the last gentleman said you kind of eat it because you're like h it I I don't want to spend my money on this but okay I understand there's growth and stuff these leaps bounds and I understand there's other things that were added there that weren't before but what are we doing and what is the council doing to mitigate this growth It's not I wish I could give you a answer right now. There is not a pad. >> No, but that's my my question is a rhetorical question to when you pass this budget, you think about where we're going to make cuts. What can we do instead of on the backs of the citizens that live here and I'm sure you guys all live here. It's more of a rhetorical question. Can we think outside the box? Have we uh collaborated with other cities that are doing it? And when I say this, I don't mean to take offense to you guys that are doing it well that don't have growths like this. You know, um eventually, like they said, we will not be able to live here. You know, there are some people that I had the ability to speak with that I now I feel like I shouldn't even complain compared to what theirs went, you know, went up. But we can't continue this. And again, um, I will reiterate, please look and see if there's some cuts that can be made. And then as a team, let's think what we're going to do to mitigate this growth in the future. Okay. Thank you. Um, Mike Roger, St. Francis. Um, I've sat in this room here for the last 6 months with this conversation. Um, one thing I want to give you guys is you guys were completely transparent about this completely. That being said, maybe you guys should have paid a little more attention, watch it online or whatever. No fault to your own. What I did think was bad was the school district. what they pulled was totally totally sneaky to jump on what she says. Somewhere somehow we got to start creating revenue. I know you have heard this many times from me, but what we going to do next year when we got a bond for 47? You're going to come back and ask these guys for another 15%. Somewhere we got to come up with developing in this town. I mean the apartment building across the street. I'm sorry Tina, but it definitely would have helped with this situation because because the 16.5% they would have had to pay that outside of the tiff money. That would have been a pretty good chunk to help with the budget. We need to start thinking outside that box. Like this gal says, Cambridge hasn't raised their taxes. I don't know. I've talked to you about that, Mark. I don't know if you called them and asked them what they're doing. Rogers has got a different program. They haven't raised any either. Chartell just bringing a big development in there with a commercial development. Those are things that are going to pay taxes towards the city that are going to help so we don't have to burden the whole cost. I mean we could have a lot of nice things but somewhere along the line we got to draw that and say we got to do something to to stop the bleeding. We are hemorrhaging Mark and to let the school district do it. I don't know if you guys knew about it or not but what they did was really sneaky and terrible and that's where a lot of our tax increase came. You look on that the school district you guys should be calling those guys up and chewing their ass too. Um cuz like these guys I'm teed off too. Thanks. But I want to know >> I do >> what our plan is in the future to stop this hemorrhaging. I've been asking this meeting over meeting over meeting and I still get the same thing. I don't know. Let's come up with something. Put a task force together. Bring some of the business leaders in this town, some of these citizens in this town. form some sort of task force to figure this out. Let's put in a business park and bring some revenue in here. Let's sell some of the land we have. We don't need that land in Athens, period. >> Or a dollar. It's Well, could be, >> you know, if it's a dollar and we get 10 million out of it, I ain't opposed to that. >> Six years. But by by the way, that land was sold for 5,000 times the asking price. >> How about that? >> $5,000 for six acres. >> Thanks. Thanks, Mike. Anybody else? Mike Powell, 23045 Ambassador Boulevard Northwest. I wasn't even going to talk today until Mike came up here. But Mike, I keep hearing this apartment building. We built the Vista. The only people that aren't complaining about taxes this week is Vista. We give them $2 million in taxes. All ours goes up. And Mike gets his business in town where we got nothing in return. You guys want to sell the property? You talked about ignorance a couple meetings ago. I you can put me in there because I don't know everything. I've asked a lot of questions and I haven't got a lot of answers either. So, explain to me how putting 26-year tiffs are going to help anything because we always talk about the tip, but we don't talk about how much it costs us to get anything. We talk about, well, we got this beautiful building down the road, but the only thing we're going to get is more traffic. We got a beautiful building here. How much of it's empty? That's where our taxes are going. And we don't want to say it out loud. I mean, we want to sell property. We we're selling all this stuff or we're we're building the wastewater treatment plant. We're building this off of growth. Growth isn't here. Otherwise, you could have sold the property for more than a dollar all those years. So, businesses don't want to come in here. People don't want to come and build here. But you're building all this stuff on the growth that's never coming. And this isn't a new thing. 15 years ago when the wastewater plant was here, that was your argument. It's too big. We don't need it. We don't need it that big. But in the same time, you're for this stuff that's doing the same thing. This building was built on growth also when the growth isn't coming and it hasn't been coming for 15 years. But yet, we're still building without any money coming in on a hope it comes. Sounds like the um Affordable Care Act. More people that are in it, cheaper it's going to be. The only people that benefit are the people that aren't putting money in it. And then we're doing that. So, we're complaining about that. Then we're doing this in our own neighborhood. I lived in a town where $7,000 uh dollars a year in taxes because of this kind of stuff. I moved away from it because I don't want to be a part of that anymore. And we keep doing it. And we've got to stop. I mean, yes, my taxes didn't go up as much as a couple of these gentlemen. My heart breaks for them. But we're so long as we keep building, waiting for growth and going into debt. I mean, that water treatment plant, I toured it. It's a beautiful place. It's a lot of moving parts. We didn't need it that big. And you guys were mad about that, but then you did this. And then you've got a $2 million tax levy for them down the road. So, is it is it all your guys' fault? No. A lot of you guys couple you are new, but we keep making the same mistakes expecting a different result. And if I'm ignorant and I'm wrong, I'm I that to me that's not a bad word. Educate me. I'm willing to learn. If what I'm saying is wrong, I need you guys to explain how I'm wrong. And I I will apologize to everybody. But as I'm saying, if we keep spending money and we get no return in it, we're going to continue this and we're going to be at 7 $10,000 a year in taxes. You know, I'm not the smartest guy in the world. So that's why I'm asking for help to understand this. I mean, because you guys got privileged more information than I have and I'm willing to listen. But all we keep saying is, well, it was past administration, it's past administration, but we're doing the same things now. And all I got to do is say, please, let's stop spending money we don't have. Thank you. >> Hello. I'm sure everybody knows who I am. I am Joseph Morell, 24360 Yukon Street anymore. Oh, I don't. >> Nope. >> We're blocking that out. Good. Um, obviously everybody's here due to taxes. We already know about that. But what I'm looking for is some fiscal responsibility from the council members on where to cut and where to cut from budget cuts. If you want to save, you want to campaign, you want to talk about saving money, you better make a spot that you need to cut it from and do it. Don't don't don't say it's not my job, it's not your job. It is your job, your job, your job, your job, and your job. So, if you're going to cut the taxes, find the spot. I know why everybody's here. Because when I first moved up here, my property taxes were affordable. It is becoming increasingly unaffordable. I was here for a wastewater treatment plant. I was here I helped you get elected. I I basically campaigned for some of you guys and you guys are failing. Some of you are failing. You need to find a spot to cut it so people can afford it. Otherwise, it's going to start to look a whole lot like Rapids and North Minneapolis where everybody moved from. And second of all, when I see all the cars in the parking lot, I don't know, maybe we should address having the door unlocked because if I am coming to a city council meeting, I one would think that the door would be open to the public and I shouldn't have to text a council member to let me in the door. It's kind of sad. Thank you. Have a great day. That's a text. I didn't see it. >> My name is Jordan Bowman. I'm a resident of St. Francis. Uh, I want to say thank you guys for what you're doing. Um, does anybody know the median age of the firsttime home buyer? Now, >> heard the other day it was like 40. >> It's 40. I've got three little kids that I'm raising that I need to provide for and help establish and this community is not supporting in that in having to raise the taxes like this. I'd echo what all the other guys were saying. Um, is there from the feedback that you're getting, is there any chance that you guys are able to re work this and revote on it or is this pretty much done deal for 2026? >> The final will be next week. >> You can approve it tonight, but it has to be set at the next >> next one because it has to be set by the end of >> December. It has to be sent to the county. Well, I would urge you and plead with you that you would reconsider and find what you can do to cut it. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? Mayor, council people, and uh city officials, my name is James Jones. I live at 23725 Nackley Street. I like to start out with a little humor. I used to watch Rod Sterling Twilight Zone and I noticed that uh there's a meeting going on in NOA tonight for the county and I can't be in two places at once. It's just not feasible. little humor. I think what you should do with your proposed property tax notice is to put a little notice on the front to be opened only in the presence of an EMT and a defiill. Uh 50 years ago I worked for NOA County as an assessor. So, I know that your valuation is determined on your property and the classification and that determines how big of a piece of pie the budget you pay. And uh I think that's where the problem is. My dad named the public works in the police department building the Taj Mahal. If he were alive today, he'd call it the Taj Mahal one. And this building, the Charma Hall, too. >> Uh, so I just think you've got to zero in on the budget. And I realize that what we've got here is a small town with a big infrastructure. I have friends who say uh you know things could be worse worse. Uh I said how's that? Well, I'd have to pay for it, they say. And uh they asked the question, uh do any of these council people that have approved some of this grow up here in St. Francis? And as far as storm water, that's always stuck in my craw because I practice no till farming and the moisture permeates into the soil where normal farming one or two inches it'll run off but with no till it doesn't. There's a former governor out in the east coast, Larry Heg. He was a Republican in a Democratic state and he refused to collect the uh storm water. He said, "Since when do we collect for rain, tax rain?" And uh I've uh I can see the fact that you probably have to assess everyone for it because otherwise you'd be out measuring who's got so much pavement. Do they live on a uh sewer uh place? And uh so my taxes went up last two years ago 30%. Last year 20% this year my house and buildings went up about 25 and the rest of the egg land went up 15. But, uh, I've got green acres and I'm sure I'm not going to get a lot of sympathy from people when I tell them that I'm a part owner in 320 acres. So, there's a uh, Grover Nordall, I think was his name. His attitude was he wanted to shrink the uh federal budget to where it could be drowned in a bathtub. And that's what I'd like to see here in St. Francis as well. Uh rather ostentatious building that was built here. I was wondering if there was a clause in the architect's agreement that if he wins a prize from a trade magazine for designing a building with so many windows, uh, I got a kick. I ran into the mayor over at the uh Hardware Boys 50% off sale and he was buying a 6foot ladder and I just thought how you going to wash out the windows in the city hall with a 6ft ladder. Uh I think the we used to have board review and equalization in April of every year and everyone would get their valuation and uh no one knew in advance what the following year the taxes were going to be. And I I am uh happy with the way it's done now. But, uh, I sympathize with people. I know the people, my neighbors who own homes said that they're, uh, taxes were going up $800 a year. So, uh, I don't know. That's all I've got to say. I realize you people have a tough job, but just consider sharpening the pencil. Thank you. Thank you, Jim. >> Hi, council. I'm Holly Bowman. I'm a resident. Thank you for what you do. Um, our taxes have gone up $700 this year, which I realize is small in comparison to some, but it's a lot for us as a family. Um, so I would encourage you to not approve the budget today, to put it off until the end of December and find a way to cut even $50,000 and show us that you can make a change. I know it's hard. Cutting a budget is so hard. We've done it in our family. I think a lot of people have done it lately. I'm sure you guys have done it in your own families. But when the money's not there, we don't spend it. Thanks. >> Thank you, H. Anybody else? All right, I'm going to close the public hearing for the budget levy at 7:09 p.m. Uh on to council discussion. Anybody want to go first? >> I'll go first. >> Go ahead, Amy. Um well, it's been it was mentioned a couple times here tonight, um as well as I saw a lot on social media that the meeting tonight here for the city portion where you can come and speak is at the exact same time at for Anoka County and um so today at 6 p.m. And now I understand that that is probably just because we have our meetings on the first and the third Mondays of in in the month and Anoka County probably just has their meetings on the first and the third I'm guessing so it just happens to be on the same day. Um I would like to see for next year that we move our first meeting in December to Tuesday. So um so people would have the opportunity to go to the county and also here. >> Yeah. Offsetting it would be better. >> Yeah. That I I think that I some may have thought it was sneaky that we could have we had the meeting at the exact same time. It's just coincidence that it's that way, I think. But I would like to see an opportunity for us to change it. And we don't have to do that tonight, but for next year, I think we should think about moving our meeting one day so people have the opportunity to go to both places. >> Does anybody know has this has it has it happened that it's fallen on the same night? It does. >> Yeah. So, >> so they must have their meetings on the first Monday of the month, too. So, I know that's just that's just my thoughts. Um, also, um, you know, I brought my tax bill, too. Um, my tax bill went up 26%. Um, equaling about $1,200. And everyone here is correct. Um, goes up $1,200 a year. That's a hundred extra dollars. That we don't get to do something. Maybe we go out to eat one less time, which takes takes revenue out of, you know, a restaurant here or elsewhere. or maybe that means, you know, we we spent a little bit less on Christmas. And um I have only been on the council for this year, so 11 months. And I I feel that I I've done my best to vote no on a few things that I didn't think that we needed. Um and I will continue to do that. Um but I I agree with everything that was said here tonight. Um, I think that we, I'll include myself, even though I wasn't here for a lot of it, um, we spent money like it wasn't ours and it was it was water. And, um, I tried to, um, say no a few times as well as the mayor. I'm sure he will talk tonight. He's he's he's tried many times to reduce the the budget and the expenditures. And um I I think that we should have done more. Um honestly, I and for tonight, my vote is going to be no. I'm I'm not going to vote yes on this. I don't believe that we're going to get enough votes to to really do anything, but um I will be voting no tonight on on budget because I feel like we could have we could have done more. Um we we we there should have been a shared sacrifice. I'm sorry I took your words. Um that people in St. Francis moved out here to have open spaces and less government. That's my view. That's why I moved here. And you know, PE, they're they're regular people. They're sitting around the kitchen table at the end of the month trying to figure out how they're going to pay the bills. And you tack on an extra $100 um where everything else is is so expensive. All the prices are going up. And I I just don't feel like the city council here did enough to try to mitigate some of that for for the people that live here. >> That's all. >> Thanks, Amy. >> Um, one thing I want to address, uh, one of the gentlemen that came up mentioned to how it's whether or not we have to figure out whether or not it's fair to what the residents can pay and afford. And part of the problem with that is it's hard to I'm not making excuses. I'm telling you basically these are my thoughts of how I have to figure out where we have to go next. Um we can't tailor taxes and needs of the city to how certain people are doing unfortunately. And a lot of that comes in where we have to have streets plowed. We have to have police and fire uh parks mowing the mowing the parks. Uh water is separate that goes on the water users and that's part of where that the biggest part of that tiff would have would have helped the water users and the water users and their water use um not necessarily the taxes until they refinanced and got on the tax roles. And that's a whole different deep subject that >> we're not going to get into tonight. Um, you know, I think it's part of the huge increase too comes in with you were going to pay it one way or another with the MS4 permit and public works did a great job few few months ago with their presentation on MS4 and what it was and why it was here and we do try to educate the public on a lot of those things and those are those are things that I don't think any of us up here are happy about. Um, any of these costs. Um, we did a road program several years ago, which before you would get assessed for your road if it was redone. All of a sudden, those property owners get slapped with a $10,000 bill with interest on top of it. Now, nobody gets that for the road portion of it. If there is water and sewer under it, you can get assessed for that, which we've seen earlier this year. So as those costs go up as well, again every cost is going up and we have to maintain what we have and those are things that affect the levy overall as well. So I think to maintain those things um there's going to be increases when the the the market for everything is insane the way it is with the inflation we've had. Again, none of us are happy with it. Um, I do credit the mayor for talking to staff and also trying to get the budget down earlier this year. Um, he tried to do an exercise too where we can sharpen our pencils, uh, was his words and to try to lower that budget and if we're looking where we can cut and where we can't. I mean, a lot of it comes to every dollar is attached to a service of some sort and you have to decide what's important to you. Um, we've talked about parks. We have people that are passionate about parks. Um, we've talked about, well, roads are roads. You have to maintain those water and sewer and everything. And Mike, you're not wrong, Mike Powell. As far as uh when it comes to uh me complaining about the wastewater facility and then this building. Okay. Um, I did push back on this building up until a point where it didn't make sense to push back because we would have lost a lot of money. Um, in the end of the day, I did vote yes and I take responsibility for that. Uh, so I will say that, but the only thing in my opinion that we can do tonight is if we if we were to continue it, what are we going to do between now and two weeks from now? Are we going to have I mean, we you've already tried to the mayor's already tried to talk to staff to get it down as much as we could. We did get it down roughly 100,000 or 95,000 I think it was. So, that has been done. um doesn't mean we can't continue to do it for next year. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry to correct you. That that didn't get done. >> That didn't pass. >> That was at a work session and it did not pass. >> That's right. We went against that, I guess, because it was that and that's you're right. So, he did have him work on that and and >> sorry, I'm lost here. The the correction came in, too. and and my argument for for going against that in the work session to not move forward with it is because it's similar to the water situation and this was on my my speech about ignorance and whatnot. Um and that that has to do with was it eight years ago we got in because the wastewater facility came in at an increased price. Everybody was pissed off. Well, I got in. I'm the only person here that was voted in that's still here during that time. Um I got voted in because of that. We followed our comp campaign promise. Um, we got the the rates down 20% from the increase. Um, what that total increase was, I couldn't tell you, but it went from 85 45, we got it down 20% from where it was. And had we had that 20% increase over the last 8 years, we wouldn't be hitting the people on the water as hard as we are today. So, we followed our promise. We did what we thought was right for the people, what the people wanted, and now it's hurting us now. And so the the fear of trying to lower it, what was it? Well, the I don't remember what the >> I think it was like 9500,000. >> So we lowered it 100,000. I mean, it would have affected your taxes probably about $5 a month, maybe. Or is it $5 a year? I don't remember, but it was really >> either way. It's it's it's almost nothing. So there there has been exercises done to do that to try to figure out what it was. Um Amy and Mark were in favor of it. the three of us at the time were against it. Um, and the reason is is because it's a pay me now or pay me later situation where the bills have to be paid. And as ugly as it is, as much as we don't like it, the work has to get done and the bills have to be paid. And that's kind of where we're at where, you know, some can say that this building which is here and it's here now, there's nothing we can do about it at this point. Um, you know, you can say it's a luxury, which I'm sure some will. Um, but there's needs and there's luxury items and saying to cut some of the expansions or wants or whatever. There's not a lot there in my opinion and again that's my opinion to cut. Um, we can start looking at services and services can get worse. Um, and that's kind of the cost you pay. Um, so it's it's one of the other things and I get the affordability. I totally understand that. I'm not getting as hard hitting as hard as some of the other people out here and I do feel for you. Um, but that's that's kind of where I'm at with it. It's it's unfortunate and it sucks, but it's it's a pay me now or pay me later system unfortunately and that's kind of where we're at. The valuations though, I would definitely encourage people to to contact the assessors. That's all I have. >> Thanks, Joel. >> Thanks for interrupting, by the way. >> Sorry. >> No, I was wrong. I need to need to be checked. Kevin, >> I'm I'm so pissed. I'm shaking. I don't know if I can talk well or not, but I think it's pretty uh Amy, I take umbrage that you say, you know, I wasn't here. You can only use that excuse for so long. You have three more years to go. And if you haven't met with any department head since you've been here, talked to anybody personally, that's on you. You could have sat down in March. We start our work sessions in March with Ernest. You had many, many, many times you could speak up or bring something or again meet with the department head and talk about things. So that's of course thing one um you know it's hard to encapsulate seven what was it the March it's hard to encapsulate nine months of talking about this and then give you answers like Mikey's got questions tell me about this tell me about that it'd be hours probably hundred not hundreds a lot hours to tell you what we dissected and looked at and whatnot um again you can go back to Mar Darcy brings up slide 61 or page 61. You could help us. You could we could we could slash parks which uh we didn't have a parks budget prior to this year or last year. So we devote $200,000 to it in 24. We devoted money to it again in 25. So if you took parks, we could slash go from 200 down or 250 down to nothing. That would be a small percentage. But then we can't do anything with our parks. And then we got people saying we want amenities. We want parks. Young families with young kids. We want things like that. Well, >> why not? >> Where's Barb? Where's Barb? >> Where's Barb? >> She's right behind you. She's back. >> Barb, where are you? >> At anyway, we could go line by line. Again, line the old line item, you know, discounts. We could we could do something like that. But again, there'll be some outcries for some services like uh Joe said, police, fire, uh in the general levy. The most of we've got almost $630,000 in general ley increase from last year this year. That includes, like you said, insurancees have gone up sometimes double our insurance premiums. The city does as well. Um cola cost of living in raises for the individuals that work here. Do we want talented people or do we want people that are not so talented? Um, there's just a myriad of things. Again, it's hard and I'm not a very good debater. So, I, you know, it'd be hard, like I said, it's hard to encapsulate seven months of talking about some of this stuff. As far as this building, I voted for it. Again, 28 people showed up to two open houses that we had at the old buildings. Our firefighters were washing their clothes and eating their lunches in the same doicile, in the same cube. So, with the the rise of cancer uh cancer incidents and whatnot amongst firefighters and whatnot, we could have built just a fire station and it might have cost $8 million and not a city hall. Do you want a pole barn in the middle of town? Do you want a pole barn at the end of town? I mean, there's all these choices we could have made, but you elected us here and I don't know of anybody here that made false promises to get elected. I hope not. I know I didn't. But we we did the best what what was in front of us. Again, the outcry in the last two years for amenities or things that are that you know need or wanted in the city. Again, wants and needs are two different things. That was brought up a couple meetings back. You know, can you decipher the want from a need? Um I I think we've tried to do that. Again, we have no control um over cost of of living. Again, as I said, my taxes have gone up too. There earlier gentleman said vote with my feet. I might be voting with my feet. I could relinquish my seat in the next year, you know, if a guy doesn't want to pay his taxes that that much. But I feel for all of you. I really do. And I got the same statements that you got with the same sticker shock that you got and the same dismay that you have. So, um, again, I, you know, if we wanted to do some cutting, but again, later on, somebody's going to say, "But we don't have this or, you know, so and so's got that or the city's got this." So, I don't know. We looked at it pretty close. And again, the mayor implored the employees, give me 1%. go across the board. One less set of tires for a truck or this or that or um you know we cut police. The police budget alone is $3 million a year. That's almost a third of our entire budget. Do you want to cut the police department? I don't think so. The fire department's budget is about now it's just about 510,000 which now we move to the fire district. That's 500,000. Do you want to cut anything in the fire? I don't think so. So I I don't have the answer. I know it's not easy. I see all these other cities in here anywhere from 3% to 9%. 4% in between. Their day of reckoning is coming and Oak Grove and some other cities can pound their chest and say we've got the lowest taxes in the county. Well, again, day of reckoning is coming for these people. And um you know, million-dollar houses and whatnot in a small farming community like or bedroom community like Orove, it's going to happen sooner or later. They're going to want things. And they're you already hear murmurings of we don't have this, we don't have that. So, as far as commercial entities, there's only so much commercial property in town. We have two, we're two miles by 12 miles along, 12 miles wide by 2 miles deep. Anyway, um the city has known much property here as it is. We've had a gentleman bought one piece of property over here, the old Hiller property with promises of retail and apartments and this and that and this and that. That trailer is still sitting there and nothing's happening because he couldn't get any any occupants to fill his space. So, and as far as Mr. And again, it'd be hard to encapsulate that conversation which had lasted over a year before they even broke ground. We became a partner with them because if we didn't do something here or let me rephrase that, there are still people in town that want to live here. They have kids and grandkids and stuff here and do school activities and whatnot. So, there was a need for something like that and it was an abatement, not a tiff. And it was eight years instead. They figure they can do it in eight years instead of 10. Um, they're still paying their sewer and water bill. They got a a break on their property taxes, but they're paying their sewer and water bills. So, don't be fooled by somebody saying otherwise. Um, I I voted for it. They did a nice job. That piece of property might still have tumble weeds and foxtails growing in if we hadn't done something. It's brought some probably some job, I don't know how many jobs to the city or city residents. Um, there was a need. They filled that need and they did a nice job on and it's it's a gem actually within town. So, um, again, as far as the answers, you want to start cutting, we could cut, we could cut all day long. But again, there's pain with some of that stuff. So, uh, be careful what you wish for is all I can say. >> Can I add something quick, too? Sure. >> Um, one of the things you're looking at when you're looking at the county's um tax rates and whatnot here, um, on the back of your tax statement, take in mind of the population as well. Um, again, the the levy we suffer a lot more too sometimes because we're a small town. We have less population. Um, growth will help us. It doesn't necessarily have to be residential. It'd be great if commercial comes in, but a lot of times commercial doesn't come in unless you have the residents. And when I say that, some people think I say, I want to turn this place into Minneapolis and put an apartment on every corner. That's not the case. Um, but that has to be considered as well, too. So, part of part of I think what we need to do as a city is look into growth. Um, it'd be great if we can get more commercial because they usually benefit us tax-wise and don't rely on our services as much. Usually that helps. Um, but I just want to throw that out there too. When you're looking at percentages of different cities, keep in mind of the population of those cities compared to us as well because that does affect it quite a bit. >> Anything else, Kevin? >> No, sir. Thank you, >> sir. >> Yeah, I agree. I I know this is it's painful. It's painful for all of us. Um, I do want to clarify, um, in order to be on the council, you have to be a resident of St. Francis. So, there's nobody up here of bus five who don't I mean, you might not be on city water and sewer, but we all have to live here. It's not a staff does not have to live in our city, but to be on the council, you have to live here. So, just clarifying that for people who might not understand that. Um, and I agree with Kevin. Um, we can cut. We really can. And we we talked about that. We talked about how we cut. We talked about that. Um, and and if if if that's truly what what you're asking us to do and you want us to do, we can cut fire. We can cut police. We can cut parks. Um, but really in all reality, all it's doing is pushing it off. That's all it's doing is pushing all this stuff off. We if we don't maintain our buildings, then it costs more later. If we don't build now, it costs more later. If we don't give our firefighters safety to protect you guys and us, I I don't want my firefighters having to decontaminate where they're eating. I don't think that's fair. I don't think any of you would want your family member to be doing that. Um, can we cut staff? Sure, we can cut stack, but again, it's all going to have an effect. It's all going to come down to stuff that we've been told people have wanted and then we give it to them and they say, "Oh, we don't want it because now you're going to charge us for it." We can say no to Highway 47. We can. They will come through. Just a minute, please. >> They will come through. They will put their little prettiness on it. They can do whatever they want. They can increase the speed. They can do whatever they want to it. Then we're going to have to deal with all the infrastructure underneath. We're going to have to pull up that road. We're going to have to fix what's under there. So, it's going to just double that cost to everybody instead of doing it right the first time. Did we need this big of a building? Maybe not. But if we don't build the building that can take care of the future growth that we're anticipating, we're hoping for getting a new business. If you don't have a fire department to come take care of your fire in your building, a business isn't going to come here. If they have to wait for somebody to come from 15 miles away, we're running into that with ambulance. We're losing people because an ambulance service can't get here. they don't have enough people. So, our our solution was, you know what, let's help let's let our fire department help with that. Let's let them go and help people when there's a medical emergency. So, you're not waiting 20, 30 minutes for an ambulance to get to your house. Whether it's a fall or a heart attack, that wait time determines whether you're with us or not anymore. And to me, I want to provide that service for you guys. If that's something you guys are willing to give up, then that's something we can do. And and we can. But the problem is is when we we work on it is at the time that we're working on it, nobody comes and talks to us. It gets to this point where we're at the push. We're at the very last second before anybody shows up to talk to us and tell us, Tina, you're an exception. You have been here. >> There have been a few, Tina. There have not been there are several meetings where no one's in this in this seat. It wasn't until recently that you guys started coming. I was I moved here in 2012. I started coming to meetings as soon as I moved here. And I'd like to know how many people in this room intend to go talk to the school district because that's a huge that's a huge good and and whether it's going and talk to them in person or emailing him. You need to reach out to them too. Um I do agree Amy if if our meetings are going to fall on the same night there is absolutely no reason we can't adjust. Absolutely no reason. That's that's not a problem. I think that's a a good thing. Um, but talk to the tax assessor assessor. They come around when you see them out there or they leave a little note on your door. Give them a call. Start talking to them. It It may not fix it. I can't tell you why the tax assessor is assessor is raising your property so much. It that doesn't make sense to me either. I don't know how you can walk through somebody's property and go, "Oh, it looks like they moved two trees and maybe they put in a new front door and their property just went up 30,000 or whatever." It's an unreasonable amount. I get that. Um, so I but I don't know what the solution for that is because we don't control the assessor either. Um, we can hire a different assessor that might cost more. I don't know. Um, so we can we can definitely, you know, we can cut we can, but it is it is going to hurt and people are going to feel it. And that's that's the bottom line. It's going to hurt. And I can't guarantee that in three years when maybe none of us are sitting up here anymore, if people decide they don't like how we're running it and they want to take over, I don't know that they aren't going to slam you with twice as much as what we're trying to save you from. >> That's all I can. >> Thanks, Sarah. >> Can I say one thing, Mayor? >> Sure. >> Just to answer one question about how much of this building is empty. There's 3,500 square feet upstairs. There's a second floor on here. We opted to do the second floor because it was cheaper to do it now and have some space that was there. The walls got to come up no matter what. But to to put a cap on just one story didn't make it as much economical sense as putting a cap on a second story. That space is is my my thought process and the chief's um process was it could be a training ground. We toured other fire stations that you could actually move walls and make some smoke and you could do some physical training in there where we could actually for hire for pay for admission fee. Other fire departments come over and train in our area. Um so it's sitting up there. It is empty at the time for the time being but again slow and steady wins the race. It's not something we want to rush into and start buying materials and and do things like that. So it can be used for training purposes down the road. And again, just and I don't know if you know, like Sarah touched on, our fire department is there. Most our guys are all EMT certified, all of them. As of a year and a half ago, the average ambulance response time was over 22 minutes. And and a personal experience again that happened in my house, they came in 8 minutes. And I live in St. Francis, so they came with the proper tools and skill set to do a job. Um, again, our guys, you know, the building that was put together again was built for the future. Again, we're now forming a fire district with Bethl. to more or less absorb their department that they had and their equipment etc. And again, that's something of of the future. So, consolidation is really key as far as economics go, saving money for any cities that are involved that'll that will partner up and can get their egos and big heads out of the way uh and and work on efficiency and the proper economics. So, I just want to mention that empty space. Thank you, >> Kevin. Um I don't know where I'd start. I'm not going to go long with it because most people know where I stand on a lot of this. Number one, property taxes, in my opinion, are one of the most regressive types of taxes there is. The entire system's flawed, and that's not something, unfortunately, we can fix. I I hate property taxes. I think it's you fix your place up and they're going to penalize you. That's the way I look at it. But that being said, bottom line for me, Amy mentioned it earlier, is the staff did their job. The staff came with a budget. The budget kept everything the same going forward. That that that was the 11% increase. So staff did their job. They came with a budget that said we need 11% in order to keep everything the same. The other as we talked about the other 5% is the MS4. My my problem with that, keeping everything the same at 11% is what it says is you're taxpayer. You figure it out. We're not going to make any sacrifice. We're not going to make any cuts on our end. It's up to you as a homeowner to either come up with more revenue or come up with a cut. We're not going to we're not going to share the pain. And I think that's wrong. So to staff's credit, they did come down, Darcy, Kate, I don't know who was all involved, and they came at our work session. what they proposed it would knock it only it would only knock it down a couple percent at your points and I don't want to put words in people's mouth but the bottom line is it would not result in any drastic cuts it was it was keeping everything close is I guess what is what what I'm saying if every if all the stars align and everything went forward as expected it wouldn't have an impact but if the the extra $100,000 I'm just going to call it was a kind of a safety net for the departments in case costs continue to go up, which they very well could. I acknowledge that. And at at that work session, it was decided by consensus three against two to uh keep the budget at the 11%. Roughly 11%. So bottom line for me is I'm going to be voting no. Not because I don't I I I I said if if we if we went with the secondary budget that was proposed that roughly $100,000 in cuts, I could vote for that. Still be an increase of 9%. That's a lot. But I I could have gone for that. I can't go for this because it simply puts every single every bit of pain on you instead of us sharing some of the pain. So I I'm going to be voting no tonight. I >> I want to understand when you say sharing the pain. So this is my understanding on how local government works and the pain is passed on one way or another to the residents. It's either a financial pain to keep it the way it is or if we ask each department to say shave $50,000 off that hurts the services that that department provides one way or another. And often times from we might save each person in this room $5, $10 a month. And I understand that adds up. I understand everybody wants more. County wants more. Totally get that. But if we save you each person $5 a month and now they can't, you know, the save and I don't think this would happen. I think our department heads do a good job. So let me put that out there before I I bash them. Um, let's say, you know, Todd cuts 50 $50,000 out of his budget. We don't have an officer on or whatever. They're slow to get to response time. That that cost of having lesser of a service or a fire department or I mean, we're all going to complain about the streets all the time, but we do have a, you know, a fund for that. Um, parks, there's people that love them, people that say get rid of them. Um, again, if that saves you5 to$10 a month and we don't provide those services, to me, the the hit on the services is often worse than the impact on the individual when you're talking about saving them such a small percentage. And that's that's the problem that I face when I'm weighing my options is we cut this much, people save $5 a month, and now we have other issues that we have to deal with. And now more people are complaining about not having this or this not happening or whatever it may be. And so the impact of the $5 a month takes away a lot of money from the hole. In which case the consequence to me is worse than that $5 a month that we end up saving. So if we again it's it's I get it. It adds up. Um you know school doing their thing, you know, county doing their thing. Um you know all of our streaming services I'm sure want more everything. It's quality of life as well that's affected by all this stuff and I understand all that too and you know I have to weigh my options just like everybody else too as far as what do I want to do what do I keep what do I not keep how do I cut my budget because of that but when you say sharing the pain to me that pain we as a city are here to provide the service to the people so if we're not providing that service or the service gets less or we're saying to our department heads you know do do better with less. You create that strain on those on those departments as well. And I was fortunate enough, I guess I'll say, to work for a company for a long period of time that stressed its workforce out tremendously. Uh required us a lot of overtime, working insane hours a lot. And the morale of those services, those people, those human beings that are providing those services, it affects the quality of work that they do. Um whether we want to admit it or not, it just does. It's it's a it's a human nature thing. That's it's no you know no disrespect to the people that are providing those services because it just it affects us as people and if the quality is less that's part of the issue as well in my opinion. So that's that's what I when you say sharing the pain that's where I don't get how can the city share the pain. You know what I'm saying? >> I I do I do but right away what you're what you're doing is you're you're you're saying it has to be a service. I'm not saying it has to be a service. I know I'm gonna be beating a >> Well, it's all >> dead. No, it's not. We're not beating a dead horse. >> And I I've said it a million times when we're talking about $72,000 dog parks. We're talking about $50,000 fire poles and we're talking about thousand benches out here in front of city hall. That's the $8,000 fences. That's the stuff that adds up. It doesn't have to be service. It has to be the experts. I I think we pretty much know where we're going to go here. So, I don't know if there's much more discussion needed. So, it's somebody wants to speak more, I'll certainly let anybody speak more. So, that being said, let's move on to the resolution 2025-58 certifying taxes payable in 2026. Do I have a motion? >> I'll make a motion to approve that, Mr. Mayor. Motion by Councilman Milbower. Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Second by Councilman Robinson. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> Opposed. I >> I. >> Passes three to two resolution 2025-59 adopting a budget for 2026. Uh, do I have a motion? >> I'll make that motion. Mayor. >> Motion by Councilman Odvig. Do I have a second? >> I'll second. Mayor. >> Second by Councilman Robinson. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> All the same sign. I >> passes three to two. >> No old business tonight. So we're on to new business. 2025 coal revisions first reading draft. >> Thank you, Mayor Council. Would you like me to just pause for a few minutes? >> Sure, if you don't mind. Is it open for the public or >> not yet? >> Nope. >> So, mayor and council, uh, before you tonight are several requested code revisions. Uh, this is a process that staff completes roughly annually. Uh, we've been doing this every year since, uh, the full code adoption in 2021. Uh and basically what happens is throughout the year staff monitors the code um so as inquiries come in as development projects move forward um and we note anything that maybe is confusing or conflicting um and anything that's not urgent we kind of package in at the end of the year somewhere in from November to January um and we bring these housekeeping items to all of you uh for review. So, uh, this year or tonight, uh, there are several zoning text amendments that are requested. And so, I'll go go through each of these, but obviously if you have more detailed questions, I can flip to the red lines, too. Um, so the first uh requested amendment is related to definitions, specifically uh the definitions for property line, setback, and yard. Um, these are concepts that are somewhat interrelated. And so we wanted to clarify when each applies because there have been some questions as we've been uh working through different applications this year. Uh so property line is the actual boundary line of the property. Um setback is the required distance between the structure and the property line. So what's required by code. Um and then yard is the actual distance between the structure and the property line. So sometimes yard and setback will be the same. Um but sometimes they may not. Uh and so we did create a graphic that's on the screen uh to at least help a little bit clarify um what the property line is, what the setback is, uh and then what the differences between rear, side, and front. Uh next up is cannabis. Uh so there were some changes during the 2025 legislative session uh that the city is obligated to respond to. Uh the biggest change here is that uh there's a new permit that was added for lower potency hemp edible wholesale. Uh and so because that's a new permit or a new use, uh that's something that the city has to account for uh in its use table. Uh and so staff is proposing that to be a permitted use in the business park and the I1 districts. Uh those are the districts where currently the city allows wholesale and cannabis manufacturing. And so uh it seemed appropriate that the lower potency wholesale would would fit in there as well. Uh the other change related to cannabis is to clarify that the 500 foot buffer that's required uh between daycarees and cannabis retail businesses um that that specifically applies to child care centers. So commercial childcare centers uh rather than inhome daycarees. Uh next up is landscape alterations. Uh this is related to uh land within the Rum River Management District. Uh and the idea here is to update the city's code in order to be consistent with what is written in Minnesota rules today. Um so Minnesota rules uh says that landscape alterations are restricted uh within the setback areas for land in the urban Rum River Management District. Uh the current code says that landscape alterations are restricted within a blanket 150 ft of the Rum River. uh regardless of if you're in the urban or the rural Rum River Management District. And so, as you can see from that uh chart on the screen, uh that that matches the 150 ft matches with the setback for the rural uh but it does not match uh for the setback with the urban. Um and so that creates a conflict as you have building setbacks that are saying one thing and then landscape alteration restrictions that are saying another. That gets confusing. Uh and so staff is proposing to update the city's code to match what's in the state rules. Uh next up is some changes to the accessory structure section. Uh which staff is proposing to change from structure to building. Um so that's the major change is change that term from accessory structure to accessory building. Uh mainly because again as as staff was processing different uh requests uh it came up that you know these regulations that are in this section of the code they're not meant to apply to all structures things like fences or patios. They're meant to apply to buildings. Uh and so we wanted to clarify that term uh because it was get starting to get muddy as people were building things that aren't buildings. Uh the other change here is to uh remove the zoning permit requirement for accessory structures that are less than 200 square feet in area. Um anything 200 f feet and over is going to require a building permit. Um but staff is proposing to remove the zoning permit requirement uh for those smaller structures buildings, excuse me. See, I did it too. That's why it's confusing. Uh the next change is for residential driveway performance standards. Um, so there is language in the code today that requires a permit for any driveway uh that's either being redone or constructed new. Um, that language exists in section 107203. However, uh, as uh, particularly residential properties are are constructing and building uh, driveways. Uh, there is a section called residential driveway performance standards which is 107211. Um, and that language doesn't say that there's a permit required. Um, so as people are if they only look at that 107211 section, they're missing the fact that a permit is required. And so staff has experienced this again throughout the year as they've come across, you know, under construction driveways or driveways that have been completed without a permit. Um, and so the idea would be to keep the language in 107203, but also move it into 107211. So that again put the language where people are looking for it. Uh next up is related to securities. Uh so today current city practice is that uh city allows a security in the form of a letter of credit. Uh however the code language actually requires cash for the first $10,000 or 15% whichever is greater. Uh and so that's again that's not what city is doing currently. Uh and so staff is proposing to update that language to match what the current practice has been. Uh and the last proposed amendment here is related to wall signs in the B1 district. Uh that's the Bridge Street District. Uh the proposal would be to update the requirements for wall signs in B1 um to match the requirements that are in B2 and the business park district today. Um so if you read that actual section in the code today, um there's it's missing the cap on what the maximum square footage for a wall sign can be on a large wall of a building. Um and so staff is proposing to add that language in. Um again matching what's there for the B2 in the business park district. Um so the cap would be uh 75 ft plus 5% of the wall area that's in excess of 500 square f feet. Uh so with that uh planning commission uh reviewed these proposed changes and held a public hearing at their November meeting. Uh there were no comments received from the public at that time and so they unanimously recommended approval of the zoning amendments. Uh and so tonight council is asked to take action on those amendments. Um and the suggested motion uh for the first reading of ordinance 352 is on your screen. Happy to answer any questions. >> Kevin, >> I have no questions, sir. >> Sarah, >> I don't have any questions. >> Amy, >> me either. >> I have nothing. It's housekeeping. >> It's good housekeeping. I appreciate it. >> Thank Thank you, Beth. I don't have anything to add to that either. So that being said, do I have a motion to approve ordinance 352 modifying division 245678 and nine in the zoning code? >> I'll make that motion, Mr. >> Motion by Councilman Udvig. Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Second by Councilman Welbower. This is >> roll call vote. Roll call, please. Jenny. Mayor Ro. I. Council members. I honest. Neil, I >> Robinson. I Okay, thank you. On to meeting open to the public again. Anybody wishing to speak, come forward. Tina and Carol. Um, so few things that have come up. So, talk about the the dog park and Mayor Vogle. I do agree that, you know, those kinds of things do make a huge difference. But my understanding is is that that is a city-owned property that we put the dog park on, but that property is still for sale. Is that correct? >> Mayor property is not for sale. >> Okay. So, that was a misunderstanding that uh I had heard from some people in the city here. Um, and as far as cutting and obviously that was already approved, so it's a null thing, but you talking about it moving forward. You talk about the parks. Why can't we cut some of that budget and you have a community of 8,000 people here, people that actually wanted that park? Why not ask for community volunteers to come and mow the lawn, help clean the park, do whatever needs to be done there? It happens in cities all over the world. Why not here? I know that that's a small amount in the budget, but just an FYI, that's huge. You talk about getting community involved. That's a great way to do it. Ask for people to help. There's weeds out here. instead of telling people to actually paying somebody to take care of it. Okay, I bet you there's some kids have to do volunteer work, community community work through uh the school. Okay, why not get kids to start doing those kinds of things at the school? There are ways to cut the budget for future. Just an FYI. And I liked the idea. I don't remember exactly who said it, but do a task force for the next year's budget and get community members involved, get business owners involved because yes, we elect you, but it would also be helpful to have people actually sit down and look at the line items to see what's out there because you have the general fund. Okay? We don't know everything that's in that general fund. We don't know everything that's in that miscellaneous area. There could be areas that we could help and look thinking outside the box. Something to think about. Um and the city owned properties. Okay, I know this is a um a sore subject, but instead of we've got property here that we are trying to sell. Okay, instead of continuing to extend purchase agreements for $5,000, stop it and try and bring in a business versus an apartment complex. You want to bring more people. we get more money. As it was said, we don't have the services for them as much. It's businesses. Try and do different things with businesses versus apartments. Um, and >> do you you'd prefer a business in your backyard over an apartment? >> Yes, I would. >> Oh, okay. >> I would. There's lots of places I would be happy to have it. And I've talked about it, you know, um there's many different things that could be back there. You know, try and bring in different grocery stores and Aldi or, you know, I don't care if it's a U-Haul. I don't care what it is, but we're not spending as much on services if we're bringing in an actual business versus an apartment complex. So, and Joe, you talked about cutting the budget and having people that there's a strain if we cut if we cut the budget in different departments. >> There can be. >> Okay. >> Doesn't mean there's necessarily going to be, >> right? And I can say from firsthand actually in my current job, we cut 10 people in our department and they restructured every single one of our jobs and actually our department is running smoother now than it ever has. Yes, there's pain points of learning different things, but it even our customers, our sales reps, everybody says it's running much smoother because you don't have so many hands in the pot. >> Yeah. >> So, it can be done. >> No, I understand that. >> Um, and you brought up the whole Highway 47. So, I have been in talks with the county engineer because we've been trying to figure out about the studies. uh traffic studies and speed studies. And because of the conversations I've had with him, he actually did a speed study, put it on the wrong road because he was supposed to have it done on Ambassador and did it on 47 instead. But I was okay with that. Yeah. But I was actually okay with it. You guys are proposing for I don't know if it's just you, county, whoever's doing it. Mindot, whoever. But we can push back on it. Correct. >> We did. We did push back. >> But just an FYI, you might want to talk to the city engineer as well because when he did that traffic study, they're proposing four roundabouts, which whatever. I think they're dumb, but that's my opinion. The speed limit is 55 miles an hour. And he said for that week that he put that speed trap thing or what up there, but what they actually do is shut it off so people can't see that it's on. They don't know that you're what your speed is. It doesn't even look like it's on, which I didn't know that could be done, but that's pretty cool. But he said the average person drove 48 miles an hour in a 55 mph zone. So clearly that shows to me that it's not speeders, it's pure stupidity and people not paying attention. So something we really need to push hard to go back on if we have to put any money into that whatsoever. So >> just for the record, can you you share the gentleman's name with our staff at some point? >> I can actually. I'll find the name and I'll give it to you. >> Email Jenny or Kate. Be awesome. >> I can do that. But mindot did do a didn't mind did a speed study on on our road did they not >> mayor and council >> years ago but >> and all of that has been repeated with the pre-esign um highway 47 isn't 55 miles an hour it is a 45 m an hour road and a section goes to 35 with school so thankfully nobody is driving 55 miles an hour that's one of the goals we've been trying to achieve so that is good news um but yeah they we've had a lot of individuals out there recently as we work through the pre-esign and environmental, but I will try to get in touch with the county and and get that study as well. >> Yeah, I'll get you the name of the person. >> Okay, thank you. >> Thank you. >> That's just a really quick easy one. >> Mike Paul 23045 Ambassador. The only thing I got to say is they're talking about putting a roundabout on Ambassador and 47. So there's going to be no break on that traffic being forced into here on the Ambassador. We've already got it pretty crazy here. And I've asked for more than from you and the county to get this checked out and nobody wants to do it. They give us the wrong street. At least you guys told me no. But we got to figure out something on that if they keep continually putting traffic down. ambassador um without any break. How are we going to get in and out of our driveways? >> I would encourage you to call Mindot as well as the county because it's a county state intersection and we don't have jurisdiction there really for that stuff. >> Well, I know you guys didn't. I do appreciate that and I will contact them. I mean, that's why I counted to the county because I thought that's where I had to go. But any information you got, I mean, I'm I'm not shy. I'll get a hold of them. So, all right. I appreciate it. Thank you. Anybody else? Come on. >> My name is Michael Mo and I suppose this is just a memory that came to me while I was sitting there listening to the conversations and I'd like to thank everybody for participating this and listening to each other. Um, I was in the Coast Guard and I was stationed in Duth and we had a a section commander there and we had a whole bunch of commanders all around America and all over and there was a massive budget cut and all I'm hearing is how terrible this is going to be and how hard it's going to be to cut the budget and all the stuff that's going to not work and people aren't going to and it goes on and on and one commander after another got up and said what was going to happen bad it was going to be. And then our commander got up and he said, "My men can and will do the job." That simple. He didn't tell anything about not being able to do this and not being able to do that and this is going to happen bad and that going to happen bad. He said, "My men can and will do the job." And guess what? We did. And guess what else happened? Everybody else did. So I think we should take that commanding officer's message to heart. Thank you. >> Anybody else? >> Okay, on to reports. Kate >> mayor council just a couple of updates. So we talked a little bit about highway 47 just to let all of you know that they have found some funds for us to move forward. They're allocating additional money to them. That is the pavement up portion of this project that it looks like our budget is whole at this point. Then we also have a tenative agreement with our public works team. So we will be bringing that to you at the next meeting and then several additional housekeeping items are coming your way at the next meeting. So we are we get through them all. So with that I'm happy to answer your questions on anything else. >> Question for K. >> Um as far as the liquor store and Joe will have a report at the end of December or early January. Joe he used to do it quarterly did he not? >> Mayor I'm going to check with Darcy. I know he's done annually. We've we've kind of bounced around, but we can >> Yeah, >> I guess as far as I know, he's only done annually. >> Okay. >> We do or we don't do it. I can't remember. >> We do. He does an annual report. >> Okay. >> And then anything on the cannabis, the state cannabis business and drinks and regarding liquor store. >> So, mayor council. So, we are going to be watching that until the feds um either change their path or we see the state is going to obviously have to react whether the feds change it or not to our current laws. We'll then be doing more housekeeping most likely on our cannabis ordinances. Um, as of right now, we are aware that it is going to affect not only our ordinances, but our bottle shop and our sales at the bottle shop. Um, but we're we're hopeful that things can can get cleaned up. And one way in one decision or another, we just need to know. And right now, we're waiting we're waiting for a lot of the upper levels of government to make decisions. I I haven't heard much or read much about it, but would if the liquor stores are denied that option to sell the beverage, would it then fall back to a potential dispensary in town? They would be allowed to sell something like that. >> So, Mayor Council, the way um the way we're understanding it right now is the dispensaries would still be able to go forward because they are selling the actual plant. The products that are affected are the um basically produced. So the seltzers, the gummies, the candies, the all things. Um, so the way we're understanding some of it is even the dispensaries aren't allowed to sell that because it's manufactured versus the plant. So that's the big swing right now is what's allowed based on um the low dose versus the the dispensary of the plant. So, we're hopeful that the dispensary, you know, industry can still move forward if that's their wish. Um, if that meets those laws, but it sounds as of right now that that low dose is what's impacted specifically and things that are manufactured. >> Is that the state or the feds? >> Federal, >> which doesn't make any sense because federal already has it still as a schedule one, don't they? It's already illegal everywhere except states their nose at that. But all of a sudden, it's going to affect it. makes zero sense. All right. >> May I ask the chief a question also? Sure. >> With the the sale of beverages and whatnot, how about your detection and in the field? What incidents have you seen and how's that affecting you getting people impaired people off the street or not? Or >> Yeah. And I think it's it's a little early to tell and get some really good data on that. um we are seeing a handful of impaired drivers that are under the influence of something besides alcohol, but that's always kind of been the case. So, I don't know that we have the data to really support, you know, we've seen this percentage of an increase since since marijuana's become things like that. But, >> so I I would say it's not alarming to us what we're seeing right now as far as a difference on on the street operating vehicles. But, um but it's it's still present. It's still there. So >> you follow through then as a county attorney rejected or not rejected but has there been some iffy stuff where people have bounced because they didn't didn't have enough information or >> well that can always always also be the case too with county attorney or city attorney or whatever that can kind of depend on how the case unfolds from the beginning to to the end. So again, I think it's a little early um you know, the cases that maybe have been denied prosecution, I think it's a little early to to tell us that, you know, this is what we need to do different as far as either, you know, establish a probable cause or or prosecution wise in some of these uh control substance operating under control substance arrest. So, it's it's it's early, but again, we're still seeing them. they're still prosecuting them as long as we can uh put together a decent case and have good probable cause. That's what what they really depend on. And we're just we're still looking for impairment. That's what it comes down to. So, and good testing after that. So, >> all right. Thank you. Thank you, Kate, for letting me take some of your time. >> Any other any other questions? Okay. >> Thank you, Kate. Uh, council member reports. Uh, wants to start. >> I can start. I don't I don't really have any thing that I necessarily did, but um I would I would like to request one thing from and I guess it's kind of partly from Jody maybe is um a lot of times I don't know if all of you guys feel this way too, but it seems like sometimes we're the last people to know when new businesses are coming in. Um so if when there's a new business coming in, if we can just like let the council know because I mean, people are coming up to me and saying, "Oh, this is coming in." Well, we don't necessarily know that they they're building, you know, they're moving in or whatever, and you kind of look like a fool sometimes when your residents are telling you, oh, you know, oh, we're getting urgent care or, oh, this place is opening or this and and you know, I'm like, the best I can do is call and ask. So, I just think it'd be really nice if when we're having a new business coming in, if you can just kind of shoot the the council an email so that we we kind of are on the up and up and we know because people kind of expect us I feel like they expect us to know when new businesses are coming in. Um, so I think that would be helpful if we can. >> It's not too much. >> Feel free to shoot me an email too or anything, >> right? Yes, we can do that. But a lot of times they they already you know and I don't you know whether they of how they are finding out before, but it seems like the last few things coming in, we've not I've not heard anything from staff about. And you know, you're back in in your role. Tell us what you know. Yep. Yep. >> I know nothing. That's why I want to know. I mean, >> you know, and some of it, you know, could be in the works, right? >> So, it's not sharable, right? and people maybe they're talking to somebody and then you know everybody starts talking about it >> different circumstances but for sure >> I think it's a great idea but you do have to be careful >> right I I understand that but like when we know for sure something's coming and we can say hey you know this is that way you know we can because >> we're we're still waiting on that coffee shop that everybody's been waiting for for the last 12 years and I've heard, you know, like in the last couple weeks I've heard, oh yeah, yeah, we've heard that this is coming in and I'm like, well, if you know something I don't know, congratulations. But and yes, I agree. It can be who you know and whatever. But >> whether they've closed on it or you know, I'm hearing the same things you are. Yeah. But sometimes that it might be a land purchase, you can't really put it out there yet. >> Yeah, I know. because lots of people are, you know, they're they're asking me what's going in at at at the hardware store in Rum. Well, I I don't have any inside intel on that. You know, I' I've heard rumors of what might be going on, but I you know, and I do. I say you can always call the city and ask, but I I don't know. I feel like people kind of sometimes look at me like, well, aren't you like part of that? Shouldn't you know that? And >> they have expectations for me because >> Yeah. So >> it would just be a little helpful to at least for me on my last little run here on council. >> So thank you Kevin. >> Um I attended a small business Saturday. I helped my uh wife set up down there and I think they had over 24 vendors overall. It was really well attended. It started out a little slow then got really busy. A lot of local artisans and craft people doing uh showing their wares. So it was I think they deemed it a big success. and I attended a fire district meeting last week and then we have another one tomorrow and then one in two weeks after that. Again, it's just getting started. Uh as as those of you who don't know, Bethl Fire Department and St. Francis are one will be one fire department. It will be called the Rum River Fire District. Um it'll be a separate entity as itself. And um the template that we put together, we put together that the group has put together um is is a viable u document that other agencies maybe now then at some point down the road they can't seem to get things going the way they like them. Again, it's a it should be the wave of the future and the fire marshall the state fire marshall is all for it because again it saves uh cities money and it makes things more efficient. There's no sense in two cities again Oak Grove and I'll say it and St. Francis, we both have, you know, we have a $600,000 firet truck that we waited two years for. They're getting a,300,000 firet truck that they waited almost three years for something like that or any city for that matter. Um, but it it's going it should be the wave of the future. So, um, that's two things I have. >> Kevin Amy, >> um, I don't have too much to report, but I like what Sarah said. Um, you know, sometimes we're the last to know. I I like the off-week memo that we get when on the weeks that we don't have the meeting and I I I just think I find those very interesting and I I I wonder does all of that stuff happen on the weeks that we do have the council meeting and we don't get the memo about it because it's just on the off week. I I I would like to see maybe maybe the businesses opening could be in there in that meeting, but I I really I really appreciate that. So, thank you for putting that together and I feel like I learned more from that than I sometimes do from our meetings. So, um that's that's really all I have. >> Amy Joe, >> I don't have a lot to report as far as activity. Um hope everybody had a safe uh happy Thanksgiving. Um I'll probably be reaching out to the department heads, so just a heads up on that over the next week or two. Um but you know, it's it's painful for everybody. Um, you know, the this this meeting is always a tough meeting, I think, for everybody, residents and us as well as staff. Um, I don't know. I'm going to throw it out there just as an idea, but I don't know if in January or whatever you want to start work sessions on budget and breaking things down or what, but um I know I know we have different uh speaking to you, Mark, I know we have different ideas of some things, but I I think principally we agree on a lot of things, but um we do tend to disagree from time to time. And I think it's it's one of those things that I mean we can try and discuss in the future as far as where department heads can cut, where they can't. Um, you know, and I get what people are saying, too. And I I do appreciate everybody that showed up tonight, everybody that voiced their opinions. Um, I hope to see more people here more often. I know it's hard. We all have full-time job. Well, most of us have full-time jobs. I don't know, I guess. Um, as well as doing this. So, I know it's time can be a factor when the meetings are at six as well. Um, but as much involvement as you can give us, again, financial questions, uh, you can call Darcy, call our financial department, ask those questions to help understand anything better. Um, she's more than willing to talk to you. Um, you know, there's we have staff available for questions. uh you may get directed to a different department if your question pertains to a different department, but all of our department heads are willing to work with you um and talk to you and help you understand things better as well. So, I encourage people to make those phone calls, send emails, whatever. Um again, you can always email the council uh depending on the depth of your question. Um a lot of times I'm going to refer you to the department head that runs that department that it pertains to only because they can give you a better answer and it's more efficient than me asking them the question. and I come back, tell you the answer, then you ask another question and back and forth. Um, calling the department head is usually the best option. Um, and they get paid for that. So, um, I know they're more than willing to do that. So, I appreciate everybody that showed up and, uh, thank you. >> Thanks, Joe. I want to piggyback on that real quick. I'm I'm always thrilled when we get many people showed up tonight. And one other part of that is I I I know I know we all get agitated and excited, whatever word you want to use, and I appreciate everybody keeping it civil. That that I that's greatly appreciated at this time and age. And I encourage you to continue showing up and thanks for the input. uh fireboard as Kevin mentioned we're got a lot of meetings with that just as it as we're as we're growing. I attended the chamber chamber meeting on the 19th. I always enjoy the chamber and again really looking forward to what they've got slated for next year's Pioneer Days. Uh and lastly, here's a fresh update that I just got. the the hardware store. Uh the business closed today. There's one more closing yet for the actual properties, but the business is is sold. So, the business side of it was sold today. So, and as I mentioned before, I'm very excited. The new owners are working with the current owners very well together, and their plans are to rehab the the hardware store in Rubber Bin. It's going to be put on hold for the moment till they get the hardware store fixed up. So, it will stay a hardware store. They've got some great ideas, some great vision, and a lot of energy. So, very appreciate appreciative of them. And last thing I have real quick is I've got to submit to Kate the assignments for the upcoming year for 2026. And I've talked to Joe and I've talked to Kevin a little bit about this. The only one I'm suggesting changing is just because of Joe's unfortunate work absences here or there. I'm like to move Kevin the mayor pro temp, but other than that, if somebody wants to move or something, I'm open to whatever. But otherwise, I'm just going to keep it the same. So, if anybody has any >> No one wants to take the upper run. Anybody Anybody? I'm just kidding. >> You've done such a wonderful job. >> I know. She finally learned how to say it. All right. >> No thanks. >> Anything Anything else, anybody? >> Okay. Looking for a motion to adjurnn. >> That motion, Mr. Mayor. >> Motion by Councilman Muer. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Second by Council Fis. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. Same sign. Meeting is adjourned dead