order first item is to approve the agenda can I have a motion I'll make a motion to approve the agenda do I have a second a second all right any discussion see not all right all in favor I I opposed all right motion carries all right second item is to approve the minutes from the August 19th 2021 Planning Commission do I have a motion make a motion thank you Stephanie second I'll second thanks Greg all right any discussion none all right all in favor iOS n all right motion carries all right new business Aaron thank you chair members of the commission tonight we are reviewing a concept plan for a new property we're referring it to as uh the gilber property and the proposed uh developer for the site right now is Kurt Manley so tonight again concept plan something to remember about concept plan is that there are a lot of unknowns no formal engineering work has been done so a lot of the specifics will find out should they choose to move forward with preliminary plat so everything is just a rough sketch right now so we'll dial in on some of the details but largely we won't know a ton of them your goal tonight is to provide feedback ask questions get some details that you might need prior to their next application so in the planning process we are are so early this is step one we all have seen the slide a couple of times walking through the full process so just at the very beginning again uh preliminary plat is when things like the formal engineering comes in so things like the bluff survey something that we'll probably talk about a lot with this project uh tree survey okay adjust the screen oh I see that always freaks me out a little bit easier on the pain just like yeah and then of course during the preliminary plat and resounding request we'll have the public hearing where mailing will go out but again we're several steps from that tonight so let's talk location of where we're at this project is directly south of The Meadows at Spring Creek the new Mi project off Spring Creek Drive so the property in question is one of the rare properties in town that is currently in city limits but undeveloped we don't have a ton of that in Carver as you know many of the projects we work on typically require annexation so North is Meadows at Spring Creek South I have listed as various uh good Landmark South is hawor Ridge so thinking about the DR Horton project that we've previously worked on East is the existing Spring Creek neighborhood and West is some of Carver's only a land so it's Mount h Road some larger lot development some active farming happens on Mount H join us so highlighted now is the property we'll talk a little bit about why it's such a funny shape and some of our goals with that so highlighted in blue is the property we're talking about tonight and some side data so again really preliminary take this with a grain of salt at this point just not knowing where that bluff is what things might look like so the total property area is about 14 acres the bluff area they believe is about six should they move forward with preliminary plat and resoning it's anticipated that they'll go for R2 PUD or residential 2 which is our uh higher density single family and PUD is uh we call it a PRD a planned residential development and the PRD is when they ask for some type of variation from the typical zoning code I'll go into detail about what they're asking for something that uh we need to talk about tonight is the 240 comp plan so this property right now is hitting 2.9 units per acre where that would fall correctly for our 2030 plan but for 20140 we bumped our minimum density up to 3 to five units per acre so again we don't know a ton about the site I think the bluff is probably going to take away some of that additional property but something we'll need to think about is the 2.9 currently Falls below what the comp plan calls for at 3 to five units per acre so proposed setbacks width is 50 area is 5,500 front set back is 25 which is typical side is a little different at five 20 again is typical for rear and C Corner is usually 15 so details that I want to talk about tonight access and utilities are obviously from uh Mulberry so prior to Meadows at Spring Creek coming in this property obviously couldn't develop there wasn't access to it so since Meadows is in um there is access that can come directly into the site so why is the property that funny shape why does it go up to Spring Creek Drive so historically that was um something that we call a cart path it was essentially the access into the site you'll see that Green Ash Drive kind of hops it so Green Ash um allows traffic to continue There the city had to go through a condemnation process to get Green Ash to extend there so the cart path virtually goes nowhere today a goal that we have should the applicant move forward with preliminary plat which to eliminate that cart path or vacate it through that process that would mean that each property owner on each side would get half of it I believe it's 20 feet so each property owner would get roughly 10t of property to their rear it's a little bit tricky with the number of property owners that are there but something we could work through uh also a little bit tricky just knowing um residents that live on both sides have struggled with maintenance in that area so if we could clean it up and have it just split between two Property Owners I think most people would be pretty excited about that Park dedication the project does not currently have a park slight for it so it would be cash in lie of um land dedication at $4,070 per unit which is typical for the parks master plan again the comp plan will need to hit 3 to five which again I think we'll be able to do and then the resoning request again R2 PRD I have on the screen now the adapted R2 district and the proposed concept so our typical R2 district is 7,000 squ ft² for lot size so the 5,500 is a deviation front air set back false correctly at 25 ft sidey yard typical R2 in our stet zoning district is 7 and a half they're requesting five and rear yard again is 20 at the 5 foot side yard setback you'll think about projects like Meadows at Spring Creek and Oak Tree both of those have product that hit the five yard five foot setback so the houses along Spring Creek Drive several throughout the neighborhood along Mulberry and then good examples of the five in oak tree are an oak tree court so it's typically The Villa product which we don't know at this point what the product will be we're not sure who the Builder is but if I was a betting woman I would say it's probably going to be a villa product with a robust HOA that does things like snow clearance uh grass care maintain that private Street and then um for that smaller sidey yard sepc that's pretty typical for for the Villa product so something that we brought up at uh the staff level concept plan review is the potential for a trail connection so we obviously take Trail planning pretty seriously at a staff level and we recognize that uh residents in Meadows at Spring Creek as well as this property would need to go to Spring Creek Drive and then down Mount Hope to get access to downtown we have that fabulous Trail Connection in hawthor Ridge so I would like to explore with the devel ER potentially connecting a trail system in the gilber property onto Broadway or what most people in town call snake Trail so they can get easier access both downtown but also into the hawth ridge system tying it into the greater system that could be a dream at this point based on Bluffs that we wouldn't be able to impact the bluff but I think if there's an opportunity for that I think it would benefit the Meadow's neighborhood as well as this new purple's neighborhood so again we're looking right now at 24 Lots if I were to put money on it I think it would be a villa product something that's unique is that there's a mix of public and private streets again oak tree is a really good example of this where Oak Tree Court is a private Street the rest in oak tree are public so the private Street would likely be owned and maintained by the HOA we suspect several of the residents here tonight live in Meadows potentially along Green Ash Drive so thinking about their backyards they'll connect here so no backyard to backyard connection it would be the street and then a pretty extensive buffer that would be required between the Gilbert property and Meadows at Spring Creek so again tonight concept plan there are lots of unknowns your goal tonight is for pro provide feedback ask questions get to know the property a little bit as we continue to move through the planning process are you Kurt by chance great will you join me at the table yes than do you mind introducing yourself hello pleasure to meet you um you have any questions yeah thank you okay sit down Kurt yeah thank you do you mind joining us just for the discussion piece I think they'll have some questions probably for us all right I'll open it up for questions comments discussion all right anyone like to go first I don't know what the bluff ordinance is now but it would seem like to be a serious issue it could be for some of them we'll learn more as they move forward with preliminary plat with detailed engineering so at this point it's best guess but you are right it's something that Carver is our Bluff ordinance is pretty intense and they obviously would need to meet the ordinance so not something that we would deviate from for a PRD um could you give more detail on the bluff ordinance a rough overview sure so it's a pretty complicated um equation that I won't pretend to know how to do but it's over 30 feet if the grade raises by 18% it's considered a bluff you need to find the top of the bluff which is obviously kind of the crest and the tow which is the bottom and then there are correlating setbacks with that typically it's 50 feet from the top of the bluff so when we get preliminary platin we'll have that on each lot that shows top of bluff with that setback typically we hold Bluff in drainage and utility easement to limit the ability for people to put things in that area so I would anticipate that several of these Lots would have pretty large easement just based on the bluff ordinance sure and that would be uh like the conservation area similar correct I have I have that behind my house so yeah y absolutely makes sense and should it come up that several of these have Bluff property we could move forward with the signage that we've been installing in a lot of the new developments at each lot Corner that just say essentially Conservation Area don't touch okay anyone else I have they're nice than that more than that goe nice to meet you Mr man I'm Cindy mono can I ask you something about the product you're thinking about building there what are you do you have any concept at all of what what kind of product and I would be more than happy to um email um like a set of plan so um I'm representing the owner as the developer and and he does not do any building The Bu one of the builders that has been selected is uh you know very high quality Builder puts a beautiful product out and um I'd be more than happy to forward the plans that there's there there hasn't been any plans finalized yet because obviously we just work concept phase right now okay but it's um the same architect that Robert Thomas Holmes uses Tim Whitten is the architect who's designing this Builder's home so so Kurt I may have let them behind the curtain in my guessing I suspect they're going to be Villas or the detached town homes with a HOA that's the that's the plan the market is going to kind of Drive what you know they're they're going to offer more than one plan and and sure anyone else and we have had the um the bluff line surveyed because well we were just going off from the original concept plan we're going off lar to get it as close as we could but our engineering company actually um surveyed it so we will have the exact and we will comply with all the the bluff setback ordin yeah you will about that all the way along we will do it right excent yeah don't don't don't come to us and say you didn't know yeah and I and I apologize for being late there was a volleyball tournament my daughter had in Still Water of a drive might have been breaking the speed limit a little bit to get out here I apologize for being late no worries um yeah so I guess my I have two kind of concerns I'm actually relatively familiar I live on the other side of the bluff uh in Spring Creek um the the the the lot is currently very wooded and it has lots of mature trees so yes I know you guys are in the process of a tree survey so obviously one of my keys would be to try try to save as many of those mature trees as possible I understand with you know with placement but you know that would be a key a key drive and I think also the people who live in that area we also like to see as many many trees safed as possible yes and then my other concern is um we're kind of giving you two competing issues right so we have a minimum density but we also have a minimum lot size so how many of the Lots do you know roughly would would fall below the 7,000 square foot uh standard for our R2 zoning or do we have a a rough guess on that would would we just have a concept plan right now with and we we didn't have any okay no that's square footage on there but we sure no problem if I were to guess right now I would say between 18 and 20 but that's me counting off sure sure plan okay R do you mind if I talk a little bit on the tree survey just since oh yeah no go ahead audience go ahead so when an application comes in for preliminary platted tree survey is required so what that means is that an arborist goes out and marks the trees anything that is 8 Ines in diameter at chest height is marked and recorded on the survey at that point they make a list of all the trees they're planning to remove and then we have a requirement for the number that they need to put back for that removal so we take the number that they're going to take away and then we have a requirement for reforestation we always try to save trees just because small saplings are tough compared to some of our old growth trees but something we do take um into consideration at preliminary plant is that tree survey which is some pretty extensive work so hopefully we don't have to remove too many trees and we'll do our best to preserve what we can excellent um yeah I guess you know that would that would be my you know my primary concern is is trying to to balance the the existing R2 zoning with our density requirements and I understand it's a very unique space so you know if any you know like I said when you have more details you know maybe as much detail as possible why the lot wasn't able to meet the specifications so that we feel more comfortable giving the variants at least in my my opinion okay anybody else I got another one sure go ahead so the the bottom of the bluff MH that's right up against the trail is that right correct would we consider donation of that bluff to the city to protect that trail we could yes just depending on what the rest of the site looks like it's usually um a little bit of a conversation if the HOA should maintain it should there be like erosion is a big one in the bluff area so should there be any type of landside the HOA would then be responsible if they own it so we would take a look but you're correct in hawthor Ridge we took on the entire Bluff for that trail system so if a trail if a trail is possible through this area I think we could definitely consider it I I personally would prefer the city took care of the bluff then sure the homeowners association that's definitely something we would be open to okay um I guess it's more for Aaron so the is the property immediately south of bluff that's owned by another land owner not like kind of that jut corner there that would go down yeah so these two are privately owned and then the city owns owns the rest y all right um I didn't have anything else anybody okay go ahead I guess mine isn't really a a question but it seems like the city's putting in a lot of smaller lots and this seems like a very pretty area so why not just put and the Builder sounds like it's going to have nice homes why not put like three big houses versus 12 or 18 whatever it was little houses in I'll take that if you don't mind yeah go ahead so uh density is a requirement of the comp plan so we can't fall below three units per acre it's largely tied to our sewer system that ties into the Blue Lake system in chapi so the Met Council sets our density requirements so you're right some of these Lots would be beautiful with three large homes but it would be out of compliance with our comp plan and the Met Council gets a little bit testy when that happens actually the project would get to nine we can't go against our comp plan okay how about some luxury apartments there you go again guided correctly and I think you may have just freaked the audience out he was kid yeah and I guess I guess maybe again the the other thing to bring up was the the Landscaping plan for the buffer between uh the existing you know um Meadows and then the new new Drive I think would be another thing that you should definitely spend a lot spend a lot of time I'm sure we're going to get a lot of questions at the uh at the resoning and public hearing so absolutely just uh okay I'm I'm done anybody else all right can I add one more comment sure go ahead AR so there's not a public comment opportunity at this point but if anyone has questions feel free to email me give me a call I'd be happy to talk through details I could send out this presentation if helpful too thank you yeah in in general we have kind of a rule that we like to have two Roots into a oh yes that's not possible here is it I think it would have been if we could rewind a ways back to planning of Meadows I think there maybe could have been a second entrance but based on the existing conditions it's just the one at this point the fire department will review make sure their engines and rigs can get through their turn correctly so they do a full review as well as the rest of staff so something we'll think about I agree Jim it is a little bit strange that it's just one but those are the existing conditions that we have read nice sure go ahead um so yeah yeah we we'll need to be sure that these culde saacs are sized for the big rigs to turn around correct okay because the one to the north it looks a little small Phil did you have a question yes I did um when I received the plans and look at there's one way in and it's the same way out of that whole development you have the two call the sex and one looks very narrow that's the private one correct okay why I'm bringing this up uh I live in oak tree M Phillis and recently there was an um emergency in the area where they brought in you know the fire department came with a lot of equipment well it was rather difficult to impossible to get out of the area so my concern would be have are we plan in more streets for reconfiguration so there was uh a problem at the very head of the beginning of the development and if there's something near there everyone else is locked inh so it's cleared and what if someone there was another emergency or an ambulance had to get in there you know I think this is just looking for potential disaster so my question is can something be done to have another access point to the main road so based on topography I don't think so everything surrounding kind of Southeast and West is really bluffy so we would be in violation essentially of our Bluff ordinance something we can look at when we get some more details is Street width and potentially limiting parking if it's one side of the street just so then there's more um width so people could park some type of vehicle on one side but there's enough space for emergency vehicles so definitely something that we can take a really close look at thank you and if it does come down to no parking how is that going to be enforced um so we have a no parking ordinance that the Carver County Sheriff's Department would be able to enforce all right I think I think we're done all right thank you very much thanks for your time appreciate it thank you uh does anyone have any Communications anything they'd like to bring up I think if you don't mind Courtney might oh sure Courtney for us thank you guys as you know I think most of you maybe feel you're the only one who doesn't know I like to try to attend a meeting about once a year just to stop in and say hi and thank you guys for ering on our commission so introduce yourself good evening Commissioners my name is Courtney Johnson I'm the mayor of the city of Carver welcome Courtney there are some new friends you bring your entage with you this is it I'm disappointed too um so what's that was like uh no you're fine um sorry I'm a little thrown off um thank you very much for all the time that you put and always coming to prepared to meetings um I just wanted to share a super quick update because Jim was talking a little bit about it before the meeting and I do owe you an October um update but I'm really excited to share that today we had the house capital investment Committee in Carver so if you guys were here around 12:30 I think you probably pulled through about 1:30 ish yeah um we had eight legislators from the Minnesota House of Representatives and probably just many staff um that came in a tour bus and we started here at City Hall and then we walked through downtown and on the levy there here is part of the bonding tour every other year before a bonding year um at the in St Paul which 2022 is a bonding year um they go on a tour of Statewide project s that have their hands out there looking for funding in the bonding bill so if you you may or may not remember they were here two years ago in 2019 they're here again um and hopefully in hopes of funding or helping to fund our Levy Improvement project we just got updated numbers on that and we're looking at $12.7 million we're going to put in for the state for uh 9.5 million of that with a potential match of 2.2 million but if you've heard me talk about this project before I'm really key on not levying for the levy so um we'll hopefully get some money from the feds or from other sources already we've gotten um $125,000 from the lower Minnesota River Watershed District um in addition we've also received a grant um a matching grant for $150,000 from the Minnesota DNR so um making progress on that front um we also have and this will be new because they've never been out but the Senate um kind of version of the same committee the Senate Capital um Capital bonding committee or capital investment committee will be out here for their tour on Tuesday which is really exciting they've never been out here before so feeling good about our chances but if you cross your fingers if you write L letters to legislators um I would encourage you to do that because that's all good for them to hear that there's a need out here in Carver so um but with that that's all I came to say thank you for doing your stuff thank you nice to see you I don't think I have any updates okay good oh yes um uh the training that Brent sent out an invite for November 8th okay does that feel right right it's a Monday November yeah I'm yeah Monday November 8th here at City Hall I'm not going to tell you what time it starts because I don't know 6:30 6:30 thank you but yes an additional training um I my crystal ball right now is saying no Planning Commission meeting in November so let's just bump our time together up a couple weeks if that's okay cool sure somebody send er a reminder that's how I um I I guess I just have to uh thank the car lions and great time at Steamboat Days uh it's good to have it back this year and fireworks and uh went down for the band so um I I know some of the people on here are volunteers there and city did a great job and was fun looking forward to next year so that's my announcement along those lines just a reminder November 14th the Lions um brunch will take place here at City Hall that's a Sunday and November 27th we will be lighting the decorations in gazebo Park Carver on the Minnesota we'll be doing that if anybody's interested in the afternoon around noon and coming out and helping us decorate greatly appreciate the help all right anybody else do I have a motion to adjourn I'll make S motion all right second all right CH all right all any discussion actually we don't all in favor close none all right motion carries thank you everybody