it's 5:30 I'll call the meeting to order uh Chad I think you're on for new employee introductions thank you mayor and Council and S this is our newest member of the team Russ Kerber he uh completes our team he's the final position to Phil um great guy um just a big teddy bear very mechanically gifted and uh has a ton of equipment experience so very valuable member of the team awesome rust and Chad warn you that I like to play two truths and lie all right are you comfortable doing that yeah okay how about it what are your two truths and lie um I've driven NASCAR um I've operated a bucket dredge and I'm from a family of 12 can you tell us what a bucket dredge is for benefit it's a dredge to pull up material and 're going a gravel they have one over here in Carver oh um okay NASCAR bucket dredge family 12 okay Chad are you going to play I know oh okay so we are all raising our fingers for the ones that we think is a lie so I see a lot of ones and well pretty even which one's the LI the NASCAR [Applause] [Music] Oh I thought he was going to say my family of 13 I well welcome Russ thanks for coming thanks foring us oh yeah sure I'm sorry so I'll my name is Courtney Johnson I'm the mayor all right I'm Joy mcnight I'm on the city council I'm Glenn Henry city council Christy m city council Lorie s city council Brent Merck city manager Aon Smith community development director clar the and I'm the inter city schi assistant city engineer Vicky siden city clerk we met Dan City quiz tomorrow over yeah exactly awesome well welcome thank you for coming and the seat appreciate you have a good night you all right up next we have carver station and mass transit discussion hi thank you tonight we are going to do an overview of conversation so there's no action requested tonight but conversation has felt like something that we all have been like different pieces of information but collectively we don't all have the same information so tonight the goal is just to collectively be able to say what conversation is what it looks like today what it might look like in the future so I suspect some of you are here at the Inception of conversation so feel free to turn in if you some anecdotal information because you were living it in 2009 while it was developing and happening so carver station was funded through the congestion mitigation air quality improvement program I'm going to call it the CMAC grant for the rest of the presentation because it is a long title so the CMAC Grant uh helps meet requirements of the Clean Air Act and it supports surface Transportation so all things bus rail train it's administered by the Federal Highway Administration and it's funded over 30 billion and over 30,000 Transportation projects and for any Grant application there's an 8020 split 80% federal dollars 20% City local M so that could be city state county so applications of how we got here with carver station there was a Grant application in 2007 which was unsuccessful the Grant application in 2009 obviously was successful led to the construction and operation of carver station so included in that Grant application in 2009 that was successful was the acquisition of land the cost of construction of the 400 stall parking facility which is there today Street improvements so the most common one to think about is iron Drive didn't exist before this project Heartwell Drive the two streets leading in there the physical bus shelter lighting sidewalks and trails landscaping and then three years of service so service was projected from 2015 to 2018 under this grant so thinking about the numbers of projections they thought they would hit about 3 years so in that Grant there are some assumptions and as I was working on this presentation it felt a little bit like the Field of Dreams of like if you build it they will come and they were using some pretty lofty numbers so they anticipated in 2015 the occupancy rate of conversation would be 90% so that would be 360 daily users or 720 daily trips so going to downtown Minneapolis or the U ofm and coming back which equals just over 14,000 monthly trips the Grant application also considered 18,000 residents by 2020 or in 20121 I'd say we're just over five so it was a pretty lofty uh number tracking closely where where the Met Council thought we were going so these numbers weren't Pie in the Sky things that felt impossible at the time but knowing what we know now obviously 10 years have past a lot has changed there are a lot of factors that I think could we could talk about with that population change but just a fact that was on the application was that that population which is a little bit off from where we're at right now it also anticipated that gr dollars would be spent by the end of year three which is 2018 and service began January 5th 2015 so this entire area was a master plan development that was set out by the CDA so the CDA owned the property where uh carbo Crossing is where carver station is is and then they also worked on the Copper Hills project so this is something that we talk about quite a bit but for Copper Hills to develop the way that it did it needed Carper Crossing to hit the density requirement so that project balanced each other out so Copper Hills is a little bit lower density Carver Crossing was able to bring that up to the three that we need for every project at three units per acre so the entire area was master plan that's how it was approved they were able to get the density requirement with the Carver Crossing project so the entire project develops the way that we see it now with Copper Hills carbo Crossing and carver station and the city acquired property from the ca since it was their property at the time so there were two separate grants uh one of them is closed out the construction Grant so we will talk about that a little bit but the grant we're going to talk about is the operations Grant which is currently what we're using for service and will continue to use for service so the constru Grant was for Ironwood Heartwell Drive signals City infrastructure including some work G joh haror Parkway for Ironwood Drive so something that's interesting to think about is that the CDA paid the 20% share of that because if you think about carber Crossing if carver station had not developed the CDA would have been responsible for 100% of the infrastructure so Ironwood Heartwell utilities streets infrastructure everything so the CDA made out out with a a pretty good deal there only having to pay 20% as opposed to the 100% costs covered on under that grant that one is obviously closed out since construction is complete and the grant we're going to talk about tonight and probably for the next several years is the operation grant so that provides daily service via Southwest Transit someone that we know pretty well they're in here often I think we all have a really strong relationship with Southwest that Grant also like I said before is an 8020 split where Grant dollars cover 80% of the operations Grant the city covers the remaining 20 I have a question for you yeah I'm something I'm just not getting it so if Caro station not develop CDA would have 100% of cost so they would have had to build the bus station is that what you're mean no so like Ironwood Heartwell all the utilities there to get to Carver Crossing okay thanks that's what I needed I was a little l so as we all know Southwest um has been in we talk about prime we talk about prime MD I all get to a previous that they offered in Carver was free event shuttles so outside of service they ran events like to twins games and the state fair uh just anecdotally that service is no longer operated out of Carver but it is operated at other stations not part of the grant so something that they just did as a good partner to offer that service to Carver residents so some more details about the carver station Grant so the nitty-gritty I'm going to give you just the information that I think you need so we partnered with the Met Council to Def federalize the grant dollars which allowed us to partner with Southwest so we could go down the rabbit hole of why we needed to do that but in the end is that we so we could partner with Southwest Transit so the Met Council holds that 80% of the grant dollars and we do reimbursement to them monthly so Kathy puts together a spreadsheet and then I put together the carers station report that goes on your consent agenda once a month so details about the grant 4.3 dollar $4.3 million total were awarded the 20% match shakes to about 206,000 for the city this project was funded obviously through the CMAC Grant CDA contribution Carver County highway department and the City Water and Sewer fund so lots of uh opportunity that people came together for this project to happen largely the CAC Grand though so existing conditions I'm not sure if anyone here has been in that building but the Carver County Express light library is in there so you can have books essentially delivered to that spot where you can go pick them up um anytime that the station is open and we also have two fixed service routes so one goes Downtown Minneapolis one goes Downtown Minneapolis plus the U ofm I have some information on a couple of sides that shows the actual routes and we are currently the last L of Southwest service so you think about it goes into Chanhassen chasa we are the most westerly portion of that making us the last leg I have some information about ridership so thinking about the cost so peak time is roughly $3 and non Peak is 225 typical commuting hours are in that peak time though so per ride is $3 so the two routes that are on the screen the 9 690 and 698 you'll see that 698 is much more popular out of carver station so 70% 76% of am Riders are using that route and 91% of PM Riders so a smaller number using 690 but it is still offered anecdotally I think we could say that most people then are likely commuting to the U on campus since the second route does go a similar route but does extend to the U campus or maybe they just like to sleep a little bit later so it is it's an early start probably and then the return times are obviously below the screen I would say that the additional routes for the 698 are likely due to demand that we were able to support three buses coming all the way back to Carver as opposed to one on the 690 so some information about current ridership I have some graphs later that will be pretty clear on some of this information that I'm about to share but as we all could talk about probably for the rest of the night Co had a huge impact on carver station so the station did shut down for April May and June June of 2020 uh something that I think we could sit here and talk about again all night is that prior to that in January 2020 we were seeing our highest numbers ever at carver station so we've been talking to Southwest just trying to pick their brains what does Transit look like what do you see as the future and of course they don't have a ton more information than we do but they've shared across the board transit for them is down 90% And with people learning that they had the ability to work from home and companies adapting to that I would say that that Trend will likely continue I will also note that on this graph you see that the winter months are more heavily used for carbur station likely so people aren't battling the weather so we'll see what happens this winter but anecdotally 2020 was looking really good for a lot of reasons probably for people but carver station was one of them so the graph on the screen now green Is 2020 the blue on the bottom is 2021 so you'll see again the highest ership we had ever seen in January and February with a stark steep decline after that beyond that it seems like things were pretty stable seems like the same number of writers we're typically using every year so just thinking about that anecdotally who are those people how are they commuting and a second graph that shows the same information so again showing that January is usually a high ridership month February March a little bit lower with the summer months being a little less I think just based on other conditions so grant information the invoice that Kathy sends in each month we took some averages just to be able to give you some broad Strokes of how much is spent so i' would say 2019 is the one to focus in on just because that was quote unquote a typical year so on average the 80% match of met Council per month was about 66800 a month so 6,800 roughly City match 2,200 so I would say again focus on 2019 2020 was obviously quite different and 2021 we're seeing a little bit of a bounce back but again I don't know if we can see typical anymore but another kind of strange year for Transit especially things that are covered under the grant are Personnel so the Public Services team when they do things like plow mow Landscape Maintenance there is covered under the grant operations which is the bus service utilities so it's more than just uh keeping the lights on there's also irrigation at the carver station so utilities is there and then maintenance so there's some pieces of equipment that we rent collectively for the entire city but carver station pays uh their fair share of it in the maintenance budget so based on the grant Trends if you'll remember it was uh proposed to be from 2015 to 2018 based on the information that we have now where we think we're going Uh current trends is that Grant dollars will be available for an additional years so based on current numbers the grant could extend until 2029 for a total of 14 service years as opposed to three which was considered in the Grant have we exhausted the grant funds yet are we dipping in ours so it's an 8020 split every month so we spend 80% of their dollars and 20% of our dollars so shifting gears a little bit Southwest Prime and Prime MD I just want to give a brief overview of where we're at with those two programs so these these two are not part of the CAC Grant so we fund these separately through a relationship with Southwest so Southwest Prime they often say it's like a similar to an Uber or lift ride that it's a dial service where you can call and say hey I need a ride this is my address so we contact directly with Southwest for that no Grant dollars are included the service area for Southwest Prime is Eden fa chasa Chanhassen Carver Victoria and Normandale Community College so if you call from any of those places and want to move in that areaa you'll be able to take Southwest Prime hours are 5:50 a.m. till 7: Monday through Friday Saturday and Sunday 6: a.m. to 5:30 it's run through an app or if someone doesn't have a smartphone you can call Southwest to set up an appointment the cost of the trip to Southwest is $10 the cost of the rider is four so the city funds the additional $6 of that trip and on average the city sees about 57 Riders per month so that comes in with all the information for the grant every month and it's included in the conversation report you get for your consent agenda uh anecdotally we are able to see where the Riders are going and I would say typically is things um like errand running so a lot of people use it for grocery shopping um commuting to jobs is also popular so a good option for people who might not have reliable transportation Aon can you clarify that 57 Riders that's 57 different riders or that's 57 Trips Trips okay and I will say it often is repeat Riders so people use it several times a month usually I have a question on that cost so that's specific to Carver it is yes do we know where we align with other communities I suspect it would be the same but that's the contract that we signed directly with Southwest so uh the Southwest Prime started in March of 2019 in the 2019 budget the city spent $738 2020 was just over 5,000 and 2021 you'll see there has been an uptick we have spent more than we did in 2020 total in the first six months of the year another service that we contract with Southwest directly is prime MD so again not part of the cat Grant again we contact contract directly with Southwest and this is for non-emergency medical services so if I have a doctor's appointment in two weeks I'm able to call Southwest and give them those appointment details and they will Prov provide a ride both to and from Once you have that appointment information the cost of that trip is $5 cost a ride sorry $10 total of cost to Riders is five can I go back to regular time quick you don't have to Sor you're fine um how much should we allocate in our budget for that was it 10 grand I believe 15 okay so we should still be on track yes to not go okay so I know that we've had a couple conversations just because I think some people have had the three years of service in their head and it's feeling a little bit like isn't this grant ending what are we supposed to do what's next um with the information that we know about the grant now there are several more years of service that could be provided with the CAC Grant we haven't heard any Rumblings that for any reason um that Grant would go away so we're not having this conversation at a precipice of saying that money is disappearing we need to make a decision again this is just an opportunity for everyone to have the same information so something to remember about carver station is that we own the site it is City owned so once the grant is over and we have some decisions to make about the property we own it so we won't need to work with someone else if there's Redevelopment we've uh had some preliminary discussions about what is the future of carver station what does it look like um if we turn this into a Target do we have to give back the grant dollars that were spent to create the parking lot the infrastructure and uh through several conversations with mindat they would be supportive of of a project that is Transit oriented or to Transit Orient development what that means essentially is that it's a walkable space so pedestrians would be able to get uh to work Play services within a 10-minute walk so something that we could accomplish if it's like a mixed use site which we've been talking a little bit where there may be shops and services on the bottom of a property condos apartments living units on top another uh important thing to think about which I think we already do a great job of is having a robust trail system that would support some of those Services too so thinking about bike accessibility scooters Regional Transportation so that wraps up the presentation more than happy to talk about details of this or just thoughts that we've thought throughout it and just think about the future a little bit um thank you for that eron I I don't know that I was thinking three years but I was feeling the pressure thinking that the grand money was going to run out I think we all so taking a step back I think collectively even a staff level to drill down and figure out the averages was really helpful for all of us yeah 2029 definitely feels like we got some reading room need to figure out what's next um any questions so when we're talking about possible Redevelopment we have a big parking lot there but again it was built with the assumption that we were going to be at a certain population which we will eventually hit so I want to be a little bit careful too that we're not cutting off our noses by our face and getting rid of things that we will have to rebuild then in the future so I'm not I mean I don't know if we have how full is that right now for the parking lot like during the day I don't go that way very often so I would say it's [Music] not so people are possibly even walking to the bus station to get on so okay I would say we're not proposing development of it um and to your point it is become almost like a semi event space where we're obviously using it for construction set up for Jonathan carber Parkway uh Ironwood Park really uses it a lot for over flowa and so does the elementary school we've done our vehicle Fair there some other organizations have um used it for like I think the snow Hawks used it for a chili feed so they're um different applications for it so and I had a friend who's taking subw right now to downtown Minneapolis and he said that the JCP construction they're kind of pushing a lot of their folks to chasa these days just because the buses can't maneuver through there so if you drive up tomorrow this one other thing to add it and this was quite some time ago that the council probably five or six years ago had a presentation the trans trans taxing district so that's a a mechanism that cities pay into that helps um fund capitals so buses within um the transit system the city of Carver is not in the transit taxing district and at one point the city contemplated paying or entering into the transit taxing district and then in return the Met Council was going to pay our $200,000 match and that kind of fell apart for a number of reasons timing Etc the grant was still going on um but one of the things that Aaron was able to to investigate is and find out is even by joining the transit taxi District we wouldn't be guaranteed bus service out of Carver um because your your numers still have thatand still has to match that and so um we'd likely just be left with u Southwest Prime that we're already paying for so it doesn't appear like whenever that comes to to Bear out that the transit taxing district is a good idea for the city whether you gr on is that once you're in you're in but you can't opt out um so something to think about I mean if it lasts through 2029 you know a lot of the conditions might be different but the even joining Southwest Transit now there's a um statute out there that there are no more opt outs every community that's not a part of met Transit you if you're part of Southwest or Minnesota Valley or there's a couple other different service providers are considered optout cities well you the state isn't allowing any more opt out cities so we wouldn't really be joining Southwest Transit the met the state would have to change their legislation to allow us to join M or Southwest Transit if that was a need or a want going forward um so I know that's a lot to to take in but my point is is until we see those numbers grow it' be hard to justify even having a conversation about during the transit taxing district um because I think most people would assume that you'd get bus service for that so and anecdotally in that conversation I was kind of shocked by that answer that we'd be paying into this larger system and have no service essentially that that was what a deal like Brent said the numbers likely wouldn't support it but the transit taxing district is a bigger animal than I thought when we started this conversation that yes we pay into helping the entire area with Transit but specifically Carver likely would not see direct service because of it I would like to take this conversation you know and use it as a springboard with the council to take money from the special capital project fund and transfer it into the operations grant for this project so right now that fund is sitting in deficit because we have an assigned uh funding to cover our 20% match and that was kind of impetus to talk about the transit taxing district because you know we hadn't had a special Capital fund developed five or six years ago and uh not that it's not a lot of money but it seemed an overwhelming amount of money five or six years ago um so we looked at could we sell the station to Southwest transit to pay our match could we join the transit taxing district um and so I think for one just from a kind of a fundamental accounting piece if we can take that fund out of deficit and have that match in there then it's kind of are settled um on that so I think that'd be um something that the council might want to consider I don't know if we have any feedback I think we should absolutely do that in my mind the money that we made off of the lease the tower lease turning into a sale I'm saying that wrong but I think you guys know what I'm talking um selling that plot um that that was going to be designated for this match amount and knowing that we have that amount of money that's still been hopefully relatively untouched in special capital I think we absolutely should move it I'm not in my head yes thank you foring say are you not in yes I am also not um just a side note on South Transit you know I mean I sit on that commission and I um I'm glad we have some breathing room because I feel like we need it because we don't know what the next couple of years is going to look like souless Transit doesn't either but they are some pretty sharp Innovative people and they are always looking for what can we do how can we serve the communities um they're going after grants to do some um City to city transportation like at West Hutchinson and into the cities into stations along the way here and other Innovative things to serve the community so I applaud their efforts to try to figure out how to do more with what they have and the current situation um and so I think things will look very different in a couple of years and then we can really think about what do we want to do I'll also say like I said before the Field of Dreams if they build it they will come and having conversation has been a great piece for me to talk to like when Lake View was coming in we here to say we have Transit available should any of your employees need to use it so I think as we continue with conversation it is something that is unique in Carver for the size that we are right now to be able to say we have fixed Transit we also have Southwest prime prime MD just another offering that looks attractive to developers yeah for sure it's what you were saying about close Transit throughout the whole pandemic they have been a really good kind of corporate citizen if you will they start and the Innovation they started the grocery getter service so if you want to go to hibe and shaki Prime will take you there if they've done stuff the bus events where they're coming to Steamboat Days this year L that they they always been real good about which I didn't approach them so I don't know how they need to approach it but I didn't want to approach them did you fig got thank you no thank you cuz I uncomfort asking for something like that after you know knowing those ridership numbers so no they were talking about all the other things they were doing with the Victoria cars and blah blah blah blah Did you thank you greatly appreciate thank you for advocating it was our experience my experience on that commission har a little bit of an after than you all right I I have two go ahead two things so on the slide the whole like that there's possibility for redevelopment um feedback that I've heard more than once and I think this is so common in other like Transit like just the logistics with that one way when a rider gets dropped off the door opens and you would go to the shelter but most of them then walk have to walk in front of the bus or wait and then cross in front of it to get to the parking lot I don't know the solution but more than once I've heard that kind of feedback where it's just not desired but I think that's just typically how they're laid out aren't they yeah yeah so and i' would say that would maybe be like if you're the only writer maybe like a 10c wa yeah yeah yeah yeah funny that's what you hear though but you never know what you know you just don't take a big deep breath right then so but yeah um and then I just want to make sure I understand with the prime MD um does the city um give any um think is it a line item for the budget do we give a donation what do we how is there anything we do finally to support that particular one it's a line item it's lumped in with prime prime and Prime and Prime MD or one line item in the budget was that 15,000 for both and we haven't approached that number um in any one year that we've had it so okay not even close 7,000 so that okay so that includes um MD it does okay thank you anything from you all right we don't have anything else we will move on to thank you um the payment management plan discussion Mr am and Mr [Laughter] SCH over thank you so we'll we'll kind of run this uh like the last time we're all kind of give an overview of some of the numbers that you'll see and then I'll ask Aon to kind of give you the nuts and bolts of the plan but um as you know we've been talking about this for several work sessions and rightly so this is kind of the first time that we put a a plan like this together for Street Maintenance I'll focus on the on the local Street uh end of it um K of considering the the feedback that the council had especially related to um the budget sitting that $100,000 incremental increase year-over-year and then also trying to be uh sympathetic to some of our older neighborhoods at all a sudden we don't start this pavement management plan by doing maybe some newer neighborhoods over in deference to some of our older neighborhoods so you can see we have you know Eagle Ridge River Oaks which is kind of the area around recraft Gil and Etc um I'm going to point out two things one you'll see a special fund or special Capital fund contribution in years 2022 and years 2026 um so that is being used in a supercharge in 2022 case uh that fund to have enough cash to complete the projects cuz this is the same fund that we'd also used to do our regular um filling up potholes small patches Etc throughout the community um also noting an inter fund loan for cash flow purposes at the year year end of 2023 to to get us through and this is you know as with anything we ask the city Engineers to to under promise and overd deliver as it relates to estimates so um these are estimates based on quantities uh the cost of black toop and other resources um and so every year we'll we'll be updating this adding another year but in that same vein um in financial conditions might change and I was talking to Joy earlier today we might end up getting some money from some other project or um some other type of contribution and we decide to amend it and in the same way that we look at the long-term financial plan we'd be looking at this um every year and then changing it so next year we look at our plan from 2023 to 20127 the other thing um that kind of newer that you won't see in this table uh we had a fin Finance meeting with Steve McDonald last week and the thing that he suggested um that you'll see in the upcoming budget is rather than so right now we have a line item within our general fund actually in public services that says Street Maintenance and then from there it's kind of like a series of accounting Maneuvers where we it goes in there but then it's transferred to the Street Maintenance fund and so what Steve is recommending and I think it it actually kind of fits kind of how we want to talk about it so we'll do a general Levy and then we do a Debt Service Levy you know for our loans but then he's suggesting we do a Street Maintenance fund Levy so it's its own thing and that way there doesn't need to be a transfer it doesn't mean you're going to be spending any more or any less but it kind of highlights it um and it gives you I think a maybe a a better opportunity to not just talk talk about it amongst the council but communicate it with the the rest of the community so that's you'll that's how we're going to show that in the 2022 uh budget in the table below you'll see um an area for state aid that uh is kind of separated up from the local streets or what we're calling our local residential streets um so that kind of sets the table hopefully for uh the second half of this presentation we Aon will'll get into the actual physical this of the street meance plan and then after that we'll open up for questions and comments from the C all righty so as Brent said you know we spent a lot of time on this to dat we've met a couple times on this uh you know in May and July at work sessions tonight we're going to be looking at um what we'd call the draft plan based on what um the council has identified at the last meeting um for their in the investment amount that you want to try to Target at this point as Brent had in his table in the memo um and then ultimately this fall you know we we'd be hoping to bring this to council for formal adoption at the council meeting so what I'm going to do tonight is we're going to do a quick summary you know you've seen this slide a couple times already but the main goal is of pavement management obviously we want to extend our pavement life before we need to reconstruct them we got to avoid those big costs when we can which will result in reduced City costs um well well planned budget will set expectations you know in the CIP um will lead so there isn't surprises um that come up and then ultimately when we can we like to try to minimize the risk to the residents and we do that by grouping projects by area to the extent possible so we'll we'll see that tonight how we're trying to um group projects by area but also try to um hit the projects when they're needed you know just from purely a management perspective so uh keep it in mind like I've said in the past reclamations are plus or minus twice as much as a millon overlay so um as these things shift um they can get expensive pretty quickly so we want to try to Target those Mill and overlays whenever it makes sense to do so so then moving into the specifics of the the 5year CIP for the mill and overlay and reclaims like I said um extending the life the Pavements and grouping projects by neighborhoods were the the key things that we were thinking about um program specifics obviously the mill and overlay effort is going to be um very Primary in the set of our Focus uh as Brent said we need to reserve dollars for normal maintenance that Chad has to do every year so we've reserved $25,000 per year um for miscellaneous patching and repair work that comes up and then also discussed at the last meeting was trying to develop a seal coat and crack Seal program within this overall budget too so we've reserved about $30,000 a year for that program as well uh lastly um using state aid funds for the state aid routes is we've broken that out separately and tabulated that that was on the second page of the memo um that's something that we're going to be looking at for next year obviously most recently just last week we've had some more discussions with the state aid office office and we're going to be meeting with them here in the next couple weeks um to start talking about formal next steps to get get everything ready to go for next year so very exciting news on that front as well so then moving into the um specifics I'm going to zoom into each project now for the next five years and what we thought would be um kind of the ideal progression now obviously these things can shift around um as we discussed tonight um and keep in mind too as Brent said you know on a yearly basis we'll kind of reassess the cost based on where things are progressing um for unit cost for for doing this type of work also we'll need to look at the streets you know and make sure oh this this neighborhood is is uh feeling more quickly than the one that we maybe thought should be next so there there's more flexibility um to move stuff around this isn't like a set in stone thing where you have to do it in this order for the next five years so just keep that in mind we can move things around a little bit on a yearly basis going forward but as Brent said um thinking about some of the older neighborhoods I think everybody knows and understands that the W Lane Griffin Street and Eagle Ridge uh that pavement is in pretty rough shape so uh it's about 24 years old now so next year in the program year it'll be 25 so that would be programmed as a reclaim um obviously that that doesn't go completely with the thinking of completely frontend loading all Mill and overlays to the extent possible um but that's a decision where do we want to just totally leave this to go for another you know two or three years and do it at the back end of the plan or do we also consider the goal of trying to group these neighborhoods together too and um construct this this whole area once and then we're out of this this whole neighborhood so um as it's shown right now um W Lane and Griffin Street is a reclaim and then Sky View Lane is is quite a bit newer so that that's a good Mill and overlay candidate so that would be the project in 2022 at an estimated cost of about $559,000 um one thing just to point out is we're looking at these Maps I should have noted in The Legend at the bottom right um the solid lines indicate the the roads that are going to be the Reclamation projects and then the dash lines are the mill and overlay so that's when you see those on the screen that's what those mean so then in 2023 we're going to shift areas of town and we're going to begin to look at the River Oaks neighborhood um 2023 will be part one of two and we'll focus on all the roads that are on the south side of Fourth Street those roads are all about 20 years old right now and um in 2 years obviously they'll be 22 years old so um they're looking at as Mill and overlay candidates at this point based on how we're seeing them to date what their street ratings were and how we see things progressing over the next two years um then Fourth Street itself uh would be a reclaim project that would be a state aid project so that would be the first project we'd be looking to fund with MSA dollars so that would be in 2023 so this is a bigger project uh the total project cost would be about $950,000 376,000 of which is local funding and 574 th000 would be MSA funding moving on to 2024 this would be the part two of two for River Oaks this would be all the streets on the north side of Forth Street and um they're also about 20 years old so they'd be 23 years years old in 2024 and this project would be $167,000 I have a question yeah um so that section of High Street that's actually in front of your house is that a newer Road I mean was done last year it was okay high and then completing the 2019 project which was D um but while we're asking questions El Drive West seems to be that part of either one of these plans okay want to make sure that's not overlooked cuz I think that's about the same AG as sure graph and one not that you're looking to add any more streets yep yeah we can see what year that one is I can actually pull up the the year on that too and you can see how old that is I meant to walk through that area but I did not get around to it maybe I can pull up those figures at the end if that's okay we look at that um okay so then 2025 is when we'd Shi down to the car Bluffs development um that they'd finish out 2025 and 2026 so part one here in 2025 um these roads down here are already some of them are already reclaimed candidates and some are still Mill overlay so that's kind of where we need to make the decision of you know do we really try to push the mill and overlays up front versus do doing like The Logical areas of town together so um these roads are kind of right at the edge where some of them are switching to reclaims right now it's more of the higher traveled roads as you can see but they are shifting nonetheless so part one here is shown in yellow um they're about 20 or 19 years old going to be about 23 years old here in 2025 and this is about a 646 ,000 project what about Bluff Road in the lower uh right corner so Bluff Road we couldn't we couldn't finish out the whole development just because it was going to cost too much so we we would have like to I I believe uh Bluff Road was going to be a reclaim as well yeah so that that road isn't in in great shape today so it's really you can do it whenever but it that was purely a function of the amount of dollars we had to work with um to finish the next five years okay okay and then um 2026 the last of the fiveyear program um that's the the roads on the North side there in green north side of the parkway um mixture of Mill and overlays and reclaims again and then also Mount Hope Road this would be this second state aid project um so this for the state aid as you might have seen in the memo we can only do projects every couple years at this rate to do a a substantial size project we need to let the fund recover before we spend on it again so that's why this is showing up few years after four street so u m Hope Road would be a reclaim project here in in 2026 as it's shown so uh this would be a bigger year year about 1.3 million 580,000 is local and about 700,000 in state aid funds any questions on that before we move on to the seal coding or should I just finish and then we can just open it up to questions okay so seal coating and crack cealing um as I mentioned um my know Council had interest in starting to think about seal coating as well and how we can fit that in with the budget so the goal is obviously seal coating extends the life of your pavement because it seals them up so the less moisture that gets into your pavement section the longer that they last that's really is simple as it is it's sealing it so water doesn't get in and freeze and cause cracking and failure um the goal would be to complement the mill and overlay and reclaim schedules for the things that are already um going to be happening with that program so we would be falling behind you know about three years later on average and getting those seal coats done on those streets uh another goal we should think about is as new streets are added to our system so for example when uh Timber Creek develops like we should start to think about bringing that part of Monroe Drive into our system and getting that seal coated within the first two years so this this program how I laid it out right now basically just gets all the the newer work that we're doing and follows up behind that but it doesn't look at a lot of the the stuff that we've done like in like five years ago or Le or more it just we just don't have enough funds to do all that so we kind of have to kind of draw a line and start with something so that's the way I approached it um program specifics as I mentioned it's about $30,000 a year is what this plan has laid out as and with $30,000 a year it isn't enough to do all the street segments for the reclaims and Mill and overlays that we did it's it's only enough to focus on the like collector or higher volume streets we can't do all the local like residential call the sacks and and all that kind of stuff there just simply isn't enough money um available to do that so we would have to allocate some additional funds to cover you know blanket cover everything that we're redoing so this is just a quick summary um of the program so 2022 is the portion of White Pine Way that was recently constructed with oak tree here a couple years ago uh 2023 was is Monro drive that was done couple years ago as well and then KY High Street uh that was mentioned today that was paved here in 2020 so that'll be done in 24 and then moving on to Ironwood Drive in 6 Street in 2025 and then in 26 looking at Fourth Street and uh re graph and similar to The Mill and overlays this is also flexible flexible obviously so you know Chad and I can determine what makes the most sense on an annual basis going forward but this this just shows you what you can do for that amount of money in the next five years so and with that I believe that's that's the end of the the presentation so any questions questions um start um so when you're talking about the seal coat and I see like it makes sense to me to do more of the high traffic pattern areas but um is that going to then focusing on the areas that have the highest amount of traffic like kchy from Fourth Street to High Street is that going to give us an equal life expectancy is that of that stretch from High Street to Dietrich with that has a little less traffic on there so in general obviously the higher volume the street is it's going to want to fail more quickly because of the loading that's put on it so it should actually help to even things out a little bit you know focusing on those higher roads and then the the side streets that connect to it you know will tend to last a little bit longer even if they're untouched so yeah that would make sense okay um thank you um I think this looks good good I understand that this is just kind of a an idea of where we're going especially like fine with doing Eagle Ridge next year but as long as there's communication between you and Chad Brent and everybody and making sure like uhoh it looks like we're having more problems in the Bluffs and maybe that needs to be reprioritized and take another look at that um I'm fine with that I think it's smart and I have no concerns with kind of what did you call it supercharging the fund with some money from the special Capital fund because that's what's it's going to take especially if we want to start on the tri and getting work done on this next year um so I really appreciate laying up this plan like this this is really what I wanted to see when I said P management plan that one meeting so I I love this because this is a plan we can work with and I understand that you know I mean I think it when we discussed putting numbers into this budget it was not an easy number to say an extra $100,000 every year not in significant money so it's really nice to see what what it can do right this is a great starting point um I like that you've grouped everything by neighborhoods I think that's so less disruptive and it shows we've really been thoughtful in planning this um I also appreciate that we're taking care of neighborhoods that have the oldest streets right um for sure as we're going through the years totally but just like Courtney you pointed out we're missing this El Street missing Bluff Road I drive on car Jonathan Carver from Jonathan Carver Parkway to Carver Bluffs Parkway that section of Street I think is already in reclaim mode like it's just bad right and so there are some streets missing out of this plan you're doing the best with the numbers that we're giving you here for sure so I like that we have this I think this is a great place to start I'm just hoping that as we continue to go through our budgeting and long range planning maybe our tax base goes up unexpectedly or we have a contingency that we didn't have to use for a project and there's some extra dollars and we go hey here's where we shove it and if we can do some extra in a year down the road no oh any thoughts CL I like the efficiency of it I think it's well thought out it's nice to have a plan for the roads and I think that our constituents will love it knowing that you guys actually got a right um but when it's laid out the way it is they'll be able to see well there's my street oh I'm in 20 the first person says why aren why aren't I next year well because you're 3 years out that's the plan as long as you know they know that you have a plan they seem to uh they seem a little bit more at peace with it but yeah get rid do some of the older streets before we start knocking on the Monro the iron Woods because they like they's getting done before mine but um the state a roads are 6th fourth and Mount Hope correct yeah in this plan yeah and I'm I'm pretty confident obviously we still need to go through the designation process with state aid but um those are the roads that Dan and I have been thinking of from the GetGo as your core roads that are most likely going to happen that way for sure so all I got thanks I'm really happy with it other than that I don't have much else to add some um very happy with that I like the color cing um um I do want us to think ahead on like how we're going to take feedback um if it's going to be so ideally every year these project would start April or so May June May June um so then maybe March April do we you know have some type of plan with communicating or how do we yeah handle that feedback so that if we you know when is there kind of a cut off each year do like every six months do we just do a high level overview see where we're at are we making adjustments and then so we would we' run this kind of like our long-term financial plan so like the year ahead so as a so the goal would be to have uh Dan and Aaron kind of put this into like a plan document and the council would adopt it um we talk about it within the context of the 2022 budget okay and then it would follow kind of our normal construction piece where um the order plans and specs because of the dollar amount um we get a contractor we get a schedule it would diverge a little bit from a the construction process and that we would just notify residents that we're going to do a Mill and overlay project in your neighborhood but it you know unless the council wants to do it something different my intention would be not to it's not like a feedback project we we'd rather not have it because we're not we're not it's not being assessed right we're not kind of monking around with curbs we're not changing traffic patterns Etc so it's kind of like snow plowing in that but we're just kind of we're doing the Street Maintenance so yes we'll do a job we'll do a I think a great job um with Dan and Chad and U Aaron and the team of like communicating when it's going to be you know where you should Park and that kind of stuff um if you think that there's more like the the before that of like when is it when we can't make changes like oh you know we're really noticing this is different in this neighborhood or wow we're really getting a lot of unsolicited feedback or um you know so it's like this will kind of every year you know there's you know August you know we're talking budget um you know and then in you know maybe it's January we're going out for bid so it's like you know when when can somebody really when's the last time they can really speak up I think it's uh and not that has to be answered today sorry my only thing where I just would um maybe I would need to know kind of and you kind of explained already like the process we already know we already know what meetings that will come up at but just kind of so I would say we would talk about the pavement management plan in probably May June again of next year kind of same time frame that we're now and that's where we add 2027 and verify what we have for from 23 on okay and then I I would say like the drop dead deadline is when you order plans and specs from Bolton and make for the project because you don't want to you know spend a bunch of engineering dollars on plans and then say h we're not going to do that um but I would say if you had you know whether it's each council member or like staff if we start to notice um feedback will consider it but I would I would also caution the council that you know you know I recognize all of our own biases that everyone's street right in front of their house is the wor section of Street in the community you know I mean that's what'll be the because that's what you what's that's what you drive on the most and so i' caution a c a little bit on like how you take that feedback in and how you process it an example you know we just had recently with Street signage um that I think really worked out well is you know there's an Aspen Drive you know Dand did an analysis of this curve being unsafe or sight lines well it's really you know on the I think the just got an email from Dan that the resident wanted to have feedback well it's really not like a feedback thing it's either the either it's safe or it's not safe we can work with you and communicate how we're going to do it but that's not an opportunity to so I I mean again the council has complete discretion and how you want to plan these out um we've never had a payment management plan so I'm not sure what kind of feedback you're going to get and how you're going to get it so I'm will you know we'll follow your lead if if you're not feeling comfortable with a direction or a process you know we'll hit pause and say okay what do we have to assemble for information what do you want us to do and we can react but that's why it's important for us to do every year know you could you see you might see other cities have longer lengths of payment management plans that run for 10 years and maybe they don't look at them we want to set ours up where we're looking at it every year gives you that at it every year and yes if you know Aaron comes back and says well the Bluffs are completely falling apart quicker than what we thought you might stay under same plan but you might consider doing something else and so we'll give you that opportunity every year to assess that okay thank you great there isn't any other questions or comments we'll move on thank you guys yeah thank you um city manager report yeah I just wanted to take a a minute to give a little bit of a a commercial for a something that's coming up that we only deal with once a year um so our pavement or not pavement look at that our uh pay scale so some of you might remember we used to be on kind of a step system and we moved to an open range system so the open range is it's a minimum pay so what you know what's the least amount that someone can make at a certain position and what's the most that can make at a certain position and it's separated into 20 grades and that's based on uh the responsibilities the experience the skills the education that's and so on that's required for that position um every year we adjust or the council adjust that open range system using uh data provided by the Minneapolis Federal Reserve so that looks at uh uh CPI or consumer the Consumer Price Index what inflation is at so this year um it's at 5% we've had most commonly it's at two we've had years where it's been at zero the thing I wanted to to stress kind of an advance of council action that doesn't necessarily mean that employees are getting a 5% increase you know employees are going to be within that you know r that open range so if you think of it as like you know the floor of the basement and the roof of your house they're somewhere in the in the middle there um they're going to be moving at that 3% that's what you agreed to in the collective bargaining agreement the the scale adjustment is all like okay and I mentioned just previously that's negotiated as a negotiated provision within the CBA you know the one thing that I would note that's a that's a little bit unique to this is we have a a fair number of folks um a a three to five that you know had just recently been hired or at or kind of newer to the city that we started at the minimum pay well if you think about it if they were planning to get a 3% increase that 3% is not going to bring them to the minimum pay because you know the floor or the basement is going up by 5% so we're going to have a handful of folks that are going to end up getting a 5% increase in order to get them at that minimum pay um so I just wanted to to check in on this I know it can be kind of a popular topic with with residents if you know there's an article in the newspaper about it it's there's some delicateness to it as far as you know kind of the world that we live in today so I just wanted to check in um and answer any questions at the ccil has regarding it have any questions christe you look like the wheels are turning they are I'm just absorbing so I think good yeah I think I think good I was just getting through all the numbers okay I think it's good you know and Brent and I we talked about this that I think it's you know we talk about how we can retain employees and I think that by lowering the what did you call it the floor the basement you know I think that that helps a little bit um everybody gets an annual review right so it'll be explained like 5% this year and this is why what it might not be 5% next year Well it's not for the to individual for the three to five mean three to five individuals that are at the minimum pay um it'll impact that for so and that's the part where I wanted to kind of bear this out usually it's again in the years past when it's been at zero or two the percent increase that um has been negotiated is still higher um what I want to make sure you know I'm giving you an opportunity to like share concerns is that if someone reads this because they're not involved in what I'd call kind of the you know the under the hood kind of mechanics of this they're going to see 5% they might react and so I want to make sure that you know the story can tell the story can answer questions or send those folks to me um so if you're feeling anything right now or something's coming up for you be helpful for me to understand that so I can help prepare for that because I I plan to have this on the next agenda as a consent item if you want it in a different form or you want it presented in a certain way you know i' like to have that feedback I don't have any questions I think I think it's helpful that number three um you know that we're doing these adjustments and where the data is coming from yeah so if there's anything to expand on that might be helpful we do the adjustment annually correct correct that's pretty good companies don't do it every maybe five years Su just these ranges well and you know not NE there's been an occasion here and then in another Community I worked for where it was longer and so when you do that it kind of compounds so let's just say we didn't do it this year we waited to 2025 then you're taking a dollar worth a dollar that's worth a dollar in 2020 is worth X in 2025 you know I've in a position where it's close to double digits and then you're in a position where you feel like you're negotiating with the employees like well it says 10% but the council is only willing to do 4% and so you mean practically you're contractually obligated to do it for the union employees you'd have the option to say we're not going to do it for uh the the supervisory staff so um I to that point we've always made it a policy that what the union folks get everyone gets and I want to continue with that it looks good all right I think we're good um anybody with Council request hearing none I would to entertain a motion to adourn like a motion to adjourn a motion toour by council member mcnight second and a second by council member s all those in favor say I I opposed motion carries