I will call the work session to order first on the agenda we have the council appointment process Mr yeah thank you Mar Council so uh tonight we're reviewing with you the uh draft interview questions and then some direction on some of some Logistics related to one of the uh candidates had asked for a remote interview and initially uh there was some conversation about wanting that to be in person um so I'll get around to that but uh we're scheduled for interviews on the 27th of September at 6: uh we're those are open to the public uh Vicki's made arrangements for those to be live streamed and folks want to watch them so uh one of the things uh that I Chuck up under lessons learned from the previous two times that we've done this is um having the council review the questions in advance but also providing the questions in advance to the candidates there was a little bit of a built-in I would say competitive Advantage uh the previous times we've done this were whoever went first was at a disadvantage because they didn't know the questions and then the other candidates could listen and hear those responses and be more prepared so what we're planning to do is after the council modifies to whatever degree the draft questions uh to send the questions along with uh the order out to the applicants uh later this week so we'll be doing that on the 20 or this week interviews on the the 27th we are asking you to to to alter the schedule just a little bit so rather than selecting a candidate on the 27th we're asking you to to do that on the 2 um for two reasons one uh the 27th ends up being a Wednesday and to appoint someone that night and then have them be making decisions and like basically two business days uh on top of me being I'm at the icma conference for that last half of that week didn't think we'd be putting that position in a uh a position to succeed for success and so if you make that appointment on your second that give uh myself and the rest of our team an opportunity to take them through the orientation program that I think all of you have been through where we can give them an update on all the issues have a meet the team so that they can take the oath of office at the meeting on the 18th and be at least somewhat uh aware of the issues that they'll be involved with and how that relates to their kind of official capacity so I think I what I'd like to do one is just get the concurrence with the schedule two uh feedback on uh the questions and if you want any changes made and then three if you're willing to um allow for a remote participation during the interview so if you want to start with the schedule if that's acceptable to the council um I have no issues with the schedule the one thing that I was thinking um is about sharing the questions with the candidates ahead of time for me I kind of think that this is a very public process right where we're going through the questions if we have any edits we'll work through them feel like that's part and in my mind the ideal candidate is somebody who is up to speed on what we're doing and knows what's going on and has at least watched the last few work sessions feel like they should be able to find these easily enough that we don't share them with them the time you know I think I think a little I think the opposite I think that the fact that there's so many things that happen in the city and if you're coming in not being on Council and not having the back becomes kind of second nature for us at this point to not it would be really hard I think for a candidate to know what to study on all of these for some of the questions that we are asking because there's some fairly specific questions in there and asking how would you you know how would you this informed us with that specific question yeah but I think like this is part of the test right this is our last meeting before the council interviews if they don't know if they haven't at least reviewed this I just want it's not a good candidate for me sorry and I didn't mean to interrupt sorry just to qual qualify this because it's in our work session package they can come and find these true there's no ambiguity they will find these questions if they come and look right okay I think that that answers the question do they have uh you know are they watching are they paying attention are they at least tuning in uh I would agree as long as they can find these in the packet we allow them to find it JS um I agree also um with Mr kman just that um the more resourceful a candidate the better and I think kind of show that um so respectfully I'm hearing we don't share okay going back to the schedule I'm like I said before I'm okay with the schedule that's laid out does anybody have any issues no okay so we got thumbs up on the schedule um let's go to number three you said was um allowing for the virtual um while I would prefer to have everybody here and in person I have no issues um with uh allowing the candidate to participate really I guess we'd have to allow it for any of them but having them participate virtually if that's their choice I think if this was a regular council meeting they would be allowed to participate virtually I think the same because especially this isn't a Monday night this is an oddball night for them too you know we want to make sure that our whoever we have come on is available for the needs in Monday but this isn't this doesn't even fall in line with that so I'm online for any again I think offer to all of them that if they want does anybody feel against no I would support it okay then um moving into question number two the questions did anybody have any thoughts on the questions I have one um number eight so it's asking why you didn't run for Council in the 2022 election and if you pointed would you run for re-election 2024 you know people's life situation changes you know changes I don't know if I I feel a little strange asking somebody why didn't you it's kind of to me it's sort of a negative question and why didn't you do this before and then to predict for 2024 I mean if app pointed would you run for your election I would have I would think most would be like of course whether they're going to or not you know something could change before them to so I don't have any issues with that question I'm kind of curious because if folks were interested in running you know like we all know that an appointment is the easiest way to get out city right so I'm kind of curious um I get it that 2024 is well honestly it's like a year away from the filing period I if the case is boy that's a year away I'm not sure what I'm going to wear tomorrow is you know like that's an acceptable answer I don't think that they have to I don't have any issues with that question I just don't see what we're getting out of that question like if we're looking to to Really flush out these candidates and we've you know we decided not to give them because let's talk about the Strategic plan let's talk about your visions and your challenges to me I'm not sure what we're really gain out of number eight I don't know that it's giving us some kind of quality input of what we think this person is going to be able to offer so the council in the city just for some perspective so this is just a a carryover question from the previous two appointment processes so this isn't a new question so it was relevant at the time am it's up to the console and if you feel like it's still relevant should be included I actually recognize the question because I figure what yearb was elected mayor yeah and I don't remember the second question but I may just have uh blocked that out but I definitely remember the first because it was one of the hardest no I remember both of them so I think it's good to keep it in there I mean it's not a place it's not somewhere where we can really have much consistency but it is kind of nice that we do have that um and also it definitely um for me you know it don't probably demonstrated my ability to think on my feet I think question to keep in I don't have any objection to that question which leads into it sounds like you have an OB I have a question about adding the question or changing the question I'd like to see something about how do you deal with difficult decision making processes tell me about a time you had to you had a difficult decision you needed to elicit Council something like that that tells us a little bit about how they deal with the unknown because I certainly have had to put that that's a really good one because we always ask the Planning Commission folks like how do you make a decision that might be UNP I don't know what the question is but it's something like how do you make a question that might be unpopular with your neighbors but better for the entire community in general it doesn't have to be that question but it gets at like that question from the Planning Commission I think it was the Planning Commission right yeah I've seen that question before I like that one that falls along the line that is that the one where it's if it's better for you or the community that something or like that might be unpopular I don't want that because the easy answer is better for the community I want you to tell me about a time okay so construct something that I can gauge who you are from um a little more open-ended than a suggest well I just made the suggestion of course I don't have thegg well I like tell me about a time you had to make a difficult decision uh and uh you know get assistance or how do we want to craft that tell me about a time you had to make a difficult decision it required um input from other resources what's a better soliciting um input see and that brings me back I think that that is a way better um dig for information on someone then are you going to run in 2024 I would love to take out question eight and put that one in this place I think we're I think that's getting to the word of why we want to get to know who's coming up right respect I think everybody else was okay with question 8 so um I think we're talking about adding a question here so that 11 then I think we shoehorn it into like after three or something is it tell me about a time you had to make a difficult decision where you relied on other people's advice you had to solicit other people's advice input other people's input other people's input and I want to know how they did that yeah talk us through that process but I don't think you should be tacked on to the question is already on here rather have tell me about a time you had to make a difficult decision were you uh had to solicit other people's input and tell us about the process is that what you're getting on well we start off with tell me about it time talk us and the process you used and the process you used tell us more time and the process you used for making a difficult decision which required you can always ask follow-ups to their responses I don't know if we want toess a yeah keep it as simple as you can but then ask that question sorry I didn't prepared with the question yeah should guess somebody should ask me that is this question 11 or is this replacing this will be question I think we shoehorn it like for me it seems like a good fit after all the describe describe describe questions or describe your leadership and communication I think it should go under leadership and communication because that is a leadership style how you deal with a problem so it's the new it's just an addition to correct okay three um and then for me the only feedback that I is on question 10 it talks about being available on the first and third Mondays but I'd like to add in there in addition each city council member is assigned to be the L on to other groups and there are other meetings you know to kind of we know that this isn't necessarily I mean we're meeting next Wednesday right like we know that this isn't always a real regular and not everything's mandatory but put something in there there what does that look like for you and I also wonder if we don't ask if they're available for a full day uh orientation we the 11 got that you you want a question related to just for number 10 expanding it to say because that question is are you available at 5:30 and 7 o'clock on the first and third Mondays I don't Envision us giving them a a commission assignment until January especially to let them get off the Speed but you mind if I ask you a push back but like that spectrum of those available dates is like huge because it could be Carver County leaders it could be the fire department that meets twice a month so like from a someone who's interviewing I wouldn't know how to answer that because the dates are not scheduled can we put in here something that this is our general schedule is or typical schedule is the work sessions the random meetings however we do have additional meetings and you know whatever I just for me where I'm coming from is one of the biggest reasons why Joy resign this was scheduling and timing and work commitments right so I think it's good just to give them like in my mind I get it we can't say and know will you be available for those other meetings that we're not telling you when they take place um but I want them to know that there's other stuff going on and I also think it's that we need to ask something to say like are you available for a full day orientation next on the week of October 11th or whenever that takes does that need to be do we have to State these things or can we just add that in our conversation know that we're you can't just add that I mean okay I think what I'm hearing though is like I agree maybe the qu maybe the add-on is how much time do you intend to spend in your role as council member you know emails phone calls no no they I don't know it so much I think it just it's more for me I would want to hear that see those questions ahead of time so like if there's a communication we can send to the candidates saying you know we're tally planning to do know a full day of training so they could clear their calendar now and then that day when they interview they could answer like oh yes one in five chance I don't know that I would clear my calendar I'm not better enough um but just if there's more information we can give them ahead of time yeah maybe we say that you know just ahead when we emailed them with the uh their time slot time slot they just a head up they'll be yeah and we're going to work with their schedule we're not going to be like well sorry we're only doing this on Mond day for you we're going to make it happen you know but if there's a family vacation that's scheduled from the 3rd through the 20th that might be issue you know I don't know you're not subject to like the same hiring processes like that we would be a staff or going through a candidate so like well the same basic questions but you can ask really within reasonable bounds anything that you want this is but if you have reasonable follow-up questions or you want to ask those question like if someone says they're not going to be available for like the next month that might come in factor in your decision okay so like you can ask those types of questions but I don't know if you need to like in advance State what those follow-ups could be okay or maybe okay I'll probably like very likely ask that as a follow question then just to I just think it's a more fair way of gauging and letting the candidate know like what's all involved because we all know it isn't to or four meetings a month depending on how you look at it you know so any other questions thoughts on the interview questions okay so we're just going to add uh one under number three the tell us about a a time and was the and the process you used difficult Deion okay all right um item number three the draft 10year utilities infastructure plan Mr lanis how are you Dan I am 63 and 34 somebody thought you were 65 64 sh shk that was the uh preting conversation this that's now on the now on the infrastructure never quite H 65 um see we go all right well um this will be a lot to take in so I'm uh going to keep it moving here so just jump in as always stop me where you want to hear more detail but uh this one is easily an hour and a half discussion on pack in what a half hour so we're uh completing the 10-year financial plan uh I should say ly L is Tak a look at the 10e trength get of handle on uh The Big Numbers over the next decade and in order to do that we've got to give her some some good accurate numbers for what's needed when and there's there were some questions that we had in our long-term plan as far as what year certain things would be triggered and quite frankly we wanted to take a second look as if if we actually did need these things as it was in the earlier plans we we had to make sure that when we started talking about $6 million water tower is it absolutely needed is there another way so the financial plan is going to be based on what we uh what we put together here and to a degree we really didn't know the answer to some of these questions we just had to make sure that we were we were planning things properly because the numbers get so large um it's it's um quite quite substantial here if you need something in six years that we were sure and the magnitude of that expense so tonight's discussion is going to be all FYI it is all for you to understand what is in that plan ask some questions along the way no actions necessarily needed but what we're looking to do is answer some of the key questions here when is the next water treatment facility needed you've heard all of all this from our prior uh prior efforts uh we had a expansion plan that was going to take us out 10 years maybe up to 15 years depending on growth but whether 10 or 15 is pretty important to the plan so we're doing our best to answer that question on what you really should be planning for uh when is a new water tower needed that was another one that uh that we are very U very cautious about the numbers on that is is are huge there $6 million for water tower whether that was needed in five years six years or if there was another way to do things that was extremely important to the 10e plan when uh Wells we needed again millions of dollars uh for these Wells so I needed to know uh what year they'd be triggered uh large sanitary system improvements another one that we had to uh bite off and make sure that we were within the proper time frame and magnitude of cost how how we would actually attack it when it was needed and then of course the questions that I would expect any of you to be thinking is how can we avoid some of these things so is there any way to manage these large expenses outside of basically just bu bonding and and um putting money aside for these big capital projects what else can be done there's a few things related to water treatment that uh is more policy related and such but any of these things are already doing so we'll we'll hit on those elements but the expansion plan is is effectively done here we've added a couple of Wells 1.5 MGD to the water treatment facility and I will say we've maximized that site uh it was previously thought to be too small to expand and so we well we we proved that wrong we we were able to expand but we've taken up every every square foot you know the reasonable on that site so we are not going to get another expansion out of this site as we see it uh it's it's uh it's it's pretty hemmed in there so uh the most important takeaway from this one was is right at the top the planning design and construction was 2018 to 2022 so um going backwards if uh we starting to run out of water right now and decided let's go build a water treatment facility we'd be out of water for about four years before you can't do it a whole lot faster two three years but uh four years was the process from from planning to actually active that it took for the water treatment facility so when we start talking about 2032 2034 we're actually subtracting four years off before we actually want to um get started on a few of these things just to make sure it's a good it's a good systematic process that you're not rushing decisions Dan can I ask you to go back a slide yep there might be one than one one more I just am curious if all those things are need like a foure so like a treatment facility yes four years back one more that's this oh there so water treatment facility you need four years years yes and like a water tower but would a municipal well be shorter one year okay anything else like really uh San the sanitary system one year the other ones I would say one to two years the water treatment is the one that takes quite a while okay and the water tower that was just one one year plan so you ranked them in order yes good helped so the answers I'll skip right to it when will the next water treatment facility be needed what we're looking at is um the planning window of 2030 to 2031 online that's reasonably um aggressive I would say that's that's quite a growth rate but for for us on on the planning and Advising side is proper to plan for your worst case which means your growth rate continues it spikes up and uh and keeps running that way you're not trying to rush everything at the last last moment where gets quite a bit more costly and quite frankly opportunities are lost if uh you're deferring decisions till the end so at this point I'll explain why we think it's appropriate to be looking at 203 31 um but that's your online time period so that's actually backing it off to what 2028 when certain things might want to get started um even before that for some planning when will a new water tower be needed um probably the best uh finding of our study is we had ion doll water tower in the plan we believe we can remove that because we have another way to to serve that storage which we believe it's most cost effective to build that storage up at the new water treatment facility site for a small incremental cost over what it would cost to build a water tower to South water towers used to be two to three they're now up around $6 million so it was it was a big number that would have been in the next five six year window and that would have been based on growth to the South at this point we think you can uh serve it through the distribution Network and build additional storage up the water treatment facility and that's actually on the site itself we just enlarged some of the reservoirs up there to to take care of the storage uh to the north so that uh that helped a lot uh to the the cost modeling uh but we did need to plan for some larger distribution piping to the South and order to support that solution we need to get the water from the north all the way to the South so we can upsize some pipes and the good news is we still have the opportunity to do that because we're thinking about it now um when will the new water treatment facilities Wells be needed 26 27 and then uh with the water treatment facility itself there ifuse some additional well needs uh 30 and 31 all this again based on growth not really what we think should happen it's what your demand is telling us should happen um and uh what can be done differently as far as managing these costs deferring so what we can do on our end is planned for larger uh looped distribution pipe into the Southwest when we put bring pipe down there to serve all that area we need bigger pipes in order to get the water to get down there so that uh we can be served from Storage all the way to the north so it's a very easy change just something that's good to be thinking about now so that we don't miss that opportunity and have to try and come back later with either a water tower or bigger pipe so um it's a it's a good good planning item that uh we can take into account as you develop to the South uh secure and preserve lands to the north for the water treatment facility um just early planning just gives you more of an opportunity to get that bit off when uh any development occurs preserve the land and and get it for a good reasonable uh price as opposed to when you need it and you are up against the wall then you you end up usually with some premium costs and less than ideal circumstances for securing the boundaries of the site um best practices on water cont conservation you're already doing these things hot even watering is the most typical and tiered billing for higher usage so when you use a lot you get get a bigger bill you already have it but those are some of the policy items that some cities will use most cities are on on tiered and stall OD even watering but really it comes down to the demand is by is is by Irrigation in the summertime so the more that that creeps down the the longer your current water Tre facility uh can operate and and keep up in the summertime so prepare financially for large future expenses that's what L is staying on top of right now uh if you can plan ahead for a 10-year window you're in far better shape than if we told you this in five years and uh adjusted uh billing in the last five as opposed to last 10 so just um good thing to be thinking 10 years big numbers D when I'm looking at this and you're talking about having a larger loop system sou West to eliminate another water tower is there like an average population per water tower that you need because if we have a water tower that goes down that's a large portion of the city then that would be in trouble right if we didn't have another one yep yep your system comes is made up of three elements Supply and storage and treatment and storage is one of them so yes the water tower went down it fell over yeah there'd be there'd be some issues but uh uh what's the what's the best way I can answer that question because is there a is there a like a number of population number per water tower that is kind of an average it's it's really demand if you if you want to answer that here this is part of the modeling that we're doing but some of the storage is on the ground so but yeah it's a storage count but go ahead you want to so in very general terms you want to at least have your average day demand as storage available so that's kind of one factor but you also need to be able to fight a fire during Peak demand time so those two things one will one will rule over the other so one it's not always necessarily just having the average day demand in there a it's it could be fighting fired based on your your uh flow rates you need to be able to fight a fire so it's not having another water tower as we grow to the Southwest put us at a disadvantage well what you what you're doing is instead of taking Water Tower and uh putting it in the air on the south side you're putting that same storage on the North side so you actually do have a water tower it's just on the ground you just have to you just have to think that we no longer have to elevate it because it's being fed from the north so the storage is there it's just we're doing it without the expensive rise that bring it up in the air so the storage are still still U accommodating okay so because of the cost savings that that provides is that going to be a trend where we see less new water towers um well it's it's all circumstance specific in this particular case you need bigger pipes that has to fit the distribution it's it's got to get get through through the the plumbing to the to the South area um there is ground storage certain cities if they can they'll put the towers put the storage right on the ground and so each system's a little little different this one was originally expecting uh expected to have a tower to the South and so um trending in the city we're going to try and minimize the number of facilities you have if there's another way to do it so existing system red dots is your one water Tre facility it's what as big as think we might be able to make it right now then you've got uh mun six Municipal Wells two water towers and uh you've got some underground storage at the existing facility itself um and then you've got three different pressure zones so that's another unique Dynamic of Carver so to your point uh reliability this is how we look at the systems SPM capacity that means if you have something go out of service a well goes out of service filter goes out of service uh something one of your largest uh components are out of service you can still meet your um uh your capacity of your Municipal system a peak day fire flow uh necessary to fight a fire with fire codes and requirements at all times uh again with with one one element out of service and your maximum day to demand is in the summertime couple of uh spikes that you're going to see on our on our demand charts are based on your maximum day demand and unfortunately you still have to need it even though it's uh not every day or often you can't run out of water on your Peak day and tell the fire folks that uh they can't fight a fire today so we have to base it on the worst day whether we that's design expectation so that uh during a fire uh things are things are there and available so estimated future water demands you're going from 2030 um 2.6 million up to 2040 3.9 million um the big number is at 2.6 million and uh this is the chart you've all seen before we haven't changed it from the original water treatment facility discussions this is the exact same um uh Supply demand chart so on the left side as that's your usage per day um and the uh uh These Bars these boxes represent your capacity so the red line is your trended growth and that's the magic line that determines our build your to build out your system so when that red line starts to get above your Peak filter capacity that means you're you're pulling more um out of the system here the the number of homes and commercials pulling more than the system can keep up with and you start to get to the point where you're not able to to feed feed the feed the system and uh at that point we're we're out of compliance here with some of those requirements to to meet your Peak day demand and fight a fire on your Peak day so um what you're going to see here is is these these little red dots that's actually what we experienced you'll see that if the existing treatment facility that blue line uh did not increase this last year we would have not a water so it timed up pretty well uh but again that was talking about this say so talking about this four years in advance so I mean I still remember the discussions when we were down here in 2018 when are we going to need it well again it was there was there was a little bit of guests going on as to what was going to happen with your trend line but I would say definitively now so um you should put this up as like your poster child like right so the the good news is on both sides of this so is it is below the peak capacity or the the peak uh the peak trending that we might have assumed so the next slide is fairly important to explain you know the variability and in projecting this so if your demands were to trend on that green line you're you're talking about a an expansion that might happen in the mid 20 2030s um but that would be a a consist consistent trend on that green line to the degree that we've actually redefined your uh demand demand curve means something's happening either either you're using less water consistently uh there's more efficient uh more efficient um appliances something changed to actually ret Trend your your Peak your Peak usage um conversely you can see how much this thing jumped around a little bit in the past I mean it's all over the place you might see a line you might see year you bounce past this and we have to kind continue to Trend it on this path but from a planning perspective without question the right way to go is to plan financially for for the soonest if if that doesn't happen you're all that much better um and so this is this is the ideal ideal way to plan for it financially and and the way to be ready for it um you're you're not in a bu by push back because we we' found that your demand is going to allow you to to move back a little bit so is there any questions on this this this is an important one again all of the all of the things that we're doing are based on this trend line uh basically ending up fairly near near our our um Peak capacity here at at this point you're you're talking about a city that's double in size you're over you're going to be roughly over 10 it's not a direct correlation to population because of commercial and Industrial but you're you're uh double the size for sure so mov the dashed red line was what the dashed red line is if your if your demand actually jumped above what we you know previously were modeling it out that at that point it would be even more pressing to make sure you're probably on the 20 2030 so I don't know that you would take all these factors into account but what about year over-year temperature rise for extended watering Seasons we're in the middle of September and people are still watering their Gardens because they've had an extra couple three weeks of of their plants continuing to go on just because we've seen longer seasons is that in your calculations is that the dash Red Line um no we just go by usage it's just flat out we find out what the answer is based on what your system is what okay so it doesn't include projections based on any changes in climate no it's so it's it's 100% based on your okay and that's fine I just wanted to it does not so a drought year you're going to see a you're going to see a spike and you know certain policies might you know maybe the rashio systems maybe they have some impact we don't know yet well and that's we we CH a bu data what I'm thinking of this dra years we seem to be heading into having had more of yeah okay yeah I mean if you made your fourth tier a th000 bucks you know suddenly we might see this drops but but you know you might get a few calls there's there's different things that can that can Trend this but generally speaking your Peaks are usually you know pretty specific multiple of your average day ofand so uh future water treatment facility what we're thinking of is based on everything we talked about in the past we were always looking to the North Area we we still think that's probably the best area to go um but there would be a bit of a refinement to our search area to the degree that actually find out number of Acres boundaries and such and then we have to uh tie that into a future well field there's a aquafer out here that can provide high capacity Wells that we'd like to preserve routing from the aquafer aquifer well well areas to the water treatment facility so that it's all planned out and we're not drilling a bunch of pipe later so we've talked a little bit about firm capacity so that's uh it just means if one Wells out you can still fight a fire uh we talked about what your demand curve um as far as the the growth here we're uh again taking us taking us out to almost 15,000 with u with our our expanded plant but the way this would work it we we'd be looking at building water treatment facility that is expandable on the North Area so we'd be trying to try to do the opposite of that existing site where it was pretty hard to to get that uh expand Ed and and put on that uh that lot what we be trying to do is preserve land and the and build the entire facility around an easy expansion you you design everything so that it can just be uh flipped like uh it's like it can be a mirrored image it's the most coste effective way to uh to build Out Your Capacity and that's how we here we'd uh we' try and size this North size so it can go a long ways with an easy expansion and do you have just a a Park number and like how much land would have to be acquired like is it 2 Acres 20 oh 10 that's for we're Ball parking thank you but find that um firm day firm capacity I think uh we talked about that quite a bit but new water treatment facility uh probably 2 MGD expandable up to 4 MGD it's going to take you out to um uh fairly large city here and and remember it's going to feel a little bit different as you get to be a larger City when you're talking 15,000 residents is 15,000 rate payers so the financials become much different when you're that large of a city the numbers aren't quite so scary um and maybe Lyn can disagree but it it's it's much easier to to manage some of these larger expenses when you're taking a look at that many R Pairs and that that amount of sustained growth in the future so would you mind sharing with the council when we going through the draft you shared a perspective that when we we hit kind a full build out of infrastr infrastructure what that does to the rates and how we build it will in the long term make the rates kind of more comparable to maybe what people would want us to be compared to today can you you had a good story to share I think on that yeah yeah what what you're faced with right now is you're a small City but you still have to build big infrastructure water treatment facilities it's not like when you're a 30,000 person City there um uh they're uh you know five times as as as expensive I mean a water treating facility is a big number you have a small population to pay for it so your rates are really high when you when you're trying to keep up with the grow growth as as the city gets larger uh these water the water treatment facilities I mean they're still very expensive but relative to the population that's paying for it it becomes a much smaller smaller number so that's why the your your rates will tend to drop on infrastructure because you've got more rate payers paying into the system you have more of an opportunity to save in a hurry because the numbers get bigger and suddenly $15 million is not this bonded effort that all of a sudden you have to restructure your entire rate system to pay for a larger City can take a look at 15 202 million and you'd be able to program that you're going to have bigger balances and you're going to have more opportunities to funnel money towards towards these expenses so that's where that's why the larger cities their rates tend to drop and the small cities as as a as something big like this happens the rates Skyrim rocking you see the same thing with water treatment facilities inside or Waste Water treatment facilities if they have a waste treatment uh facility small cities big Big R where do you see that intersection for car 15 20,000 you're you I would say your your race would probably tend to tend to start to go on the on the you'll have an opportunity we'll say to consider some declines and as it continues to grow you you start to shrink in a hurry depending on your policies and how you want to go about it so um does that answer question yeah thank you y so I won't give you more definitions at this point here I'm just going to get right into the numbers so um the uh 2024 expenses uh fairly modest here 1.25 million and I only mean modest in compared to some of the later ones so it's still a big number but that's maintaining your existing system it's it's um the project we've talked about in the past where if you have rust in your Tower you need to get rid of the rust so it doesn't become structural damage where where the numbers get out much higher so that's a maintenance related effort Southwest trunk system's going to talk about that a little bit uh that's that's try and make sure you don't have a bigger expense than that um later on down the road because of Highway 61 um we explain that in a second 2026 there might be some land EXP expenses and that would largely be based on trying to preserve land so you're not trying to buy it at a later date when it's when you're in a hurry you have time you got lots of flexibility on that but it's something to plan for it could be a fairly large number at some point in time uh 2027 is some wells it's fairly fixed you will you'll when you hit a certain population you're going to have to drop some more wells in another well well number seven and then 2030 um new water treatment facility and Wells and again that's the big number that I think you U you know now is our best planning recommendation but undefined for that actual year until we continue to see your demand curve shaping up over the over the next couple years if you have a couple year housing recession you know again we we'll be updating this is what what will happen so and then annually got utility oversizing so us over to Aaron so we can talk a little bit about that sanitary sewer system remember that's that 1 $1.4 million Southwest trunk extension so go ahead okay so San SE needs so we looked at um you know what are the needs here in our in our planning period and then also some opportunities that might exist and how we can make things a little bit more efficient utilizing some opportunities so number one continuing to or expand our trunk sewer system in conjunction with development projects so when we continue in a a contiguous fashion I'll call it you know the next development over we want to make sure we're extending our trunk sewer system adequately to to serve those future flows so that's something that we do um during the development review process um the second one being extending the trunk system to new service areas um as required or strategically as you see fit as opportunity to exist so we've talked about some of these in the last year or so you know Highway 212 Crossing when does that make sense or uh going down to the Southwest or the Big Woods districts um we looked at those area charge Concepts here in the last year so that's what that's what that one's all about um and then one other one here um planning with with future projects that are going to be programmed in the area um one thing I'm want to talk about is um cu 61 there's a project that's planned for that at the end of the decade and I think we have a good opportunity to extend some piping in conjunction with that project uh and then lastly making sure we know when it's time to redirect some of our existing flows um when when those systems are at capacity so um going to be talking about that in detail here in a little bit so uh Southwest District extension this is something that should look familiar to you um that's extending sewer and water down to the to the Southwest um that will service everything that'll be growing to the West in the future um we currently have that in the plan for 2025 um that timing is obviously flexible it's based on uh when developers could be coming into that area so that's is something that we got to keep our finger on the pulse for uh continue to talk to to prospective developers and figure out when it makes sense for the to to do that extension project but uh the the important thing is that will service everything in that direction so it's an important pipe um the sewer component of it is $3 million so uh the next one is the highway 212 Crossing again another really important Future Link so that's a 30-in sewer that would be crossing under 212 um that's currently planned for 2027 just based on uh timing of when we think that'd be good to get that online at this point but the key thing to know with this again is by doing that or that extension it allows for all the growth north of 212 to happen so without that pipe going in we're limited to a very small growth area that can still go to the there's an existing 10-in sewer that was put in um when Fleet Farm went in um we can get a few more areas into that pipe the the areas with the check marks but anything new U big development going Less in the future needs that 30in Crossing so will overwhelm our system so that's in there for about $1.8 million and then lastly this is something that we haven't really talked about in great detail um I think we may have mentioned it as part of the JCP project planning but one thing that we're looking at at is extending a forest main um from basically from ironwood park down to the the far end of our discharge um leaving the city of Carver so the far Northeast end near uh Casas 61 and the reason that we're looking at that is there's an existing 21 in uh sanitary sewer M that goes down Jonathan Carver Parkway and that goes to that big carbo Creek lift station that's over here at um Old County Road 40 Main Street West and what we're seeing is at some point that's going to be overwhelmed that system will be at capacity so instead of rebuilding all the trunks sewer going down Jonathan Carver Parkway um a couple years ago and then having to do an extremely large lift station upgrade over at at car Creek over here um we decided it was going to be more cost effective to basically redirect those flows and totally bypass everything that's coming through downtown Carver um and basically um discharging it all the way at the far end of our system so um why this is important is the count is currently playing the Recon uh 61 in 2029 so we think it's a good idea to plan for that in conjunction with that project similar to what we did with JCP so we put casings under Jonathan Carver Parkway for this Forest M and we also put it under Monroe Drive when that project happened um we've we've already gotten some easements from the school district to run along the south side of Monroe um to extend those forcee pipes so a lot of things have been set up well um and we think this would be a good time to really see that project through so we're we don't have to do a difficult project later that would be city-led and very hard to fit in that that Highway Corridor so that's kind of the short of that project um one other thing is um we have a sewer transfer to park dedication funds planned um for the lift station site that would be on the north side of the Ironwood Park site so we would be um doing a sewer transfer for that land area that would no longer be um Park area so that's that's what that 79,000 is for so that's kind of the the summary Dan if you just want to go to the last slide sure and I'll just to add for the for the for when that is more difficult we think it'd be better to do it when it's easier with the project it's it's means a lot less expensive because we uh would have to drill it after a road brand new roadway is built as opposed to trying to do it when it's open cut so in some cases you're you're forced to advance things simply because it would be a lot cheaper to do it when their project is happening so that would be the reason we would bring that up and that would be an additional LIF station right the Ironwood Park lift station would be a future additional lift station have the two correct yep so this is the summary slide very similar to what we did for the water um it just shows um annually what the the costs are so in 2024 that's the 79,000 for the sewer transfer and then in 25 we had the 3 million for the Southwest extension project 2027 was the highway 212 Crossing and we had the 72 for the 61 Forest M and then obviously um the 200,000 curring annually for the utility oversizing which we've been doing for a number of years now so that's the roll up of the sewer need we'll kick it off for any questions questions since I wasn't here for the 2018 the 22 water expenditures how does this compare the next up to the point we get to uh the new well how does this compare with that period of time with the cost we had before you share the official answer the way it feels for me is to be able to look at it now and to plan I remember sitting in this room it wouldn't have been 2018 I remember sitting in the church in 2018 and looking at the increases that we have to charge for rates and what a new water treatment plant was going to cost and just feeling the scoss going in my stomach gun punch and like and we needed yesterday and we've got to get going but the official answer can be sure to you guys yeah we weren't looking that far out back then yeah I'll just I'll just add it in in relation to what you just went through this is this is bigger the numbers are bigger inflation hasn't helped us in the construction industry 18.5 now it might have been about a $15 million job when we were talking back then so it's a bit more money but it's it's hard for me to to put that into perspective with 10,000 great pairs versus you were in a tough you know that's that's not a big city for that $12 million that you took on so I would say the numbers are are bigger but I'm not sure just yet ly will have to talk what if if financially it's going to be a harder I don't know I don't actually know if it actually will be a bigger hit than what we just went through if we can stay steady I would say is a softer blow any other questions all right thank you um all right didn't need hour to keep half hour you said hour and a half presentation how we do on time okay uh the draft 10 parks smth once you get done I think it's doing the thing where it's trying to pull from my screen can you duplicate yeah that's what working do you want us to talk about here we go mom just made it a little so uh in the spirit of keeping with our 10year plans we're going to talk about Parks tonight so arguably I would say this is a little bit more fur in water conversation tonight we're going to talk funding and approach summary of plan with some priority projects and then next steps throughout this conversation I will remind you that this is a big big big conversation so this is a first pass at looking at our existing infrastructure creating some plans moving forward uh likely will be really fluid have some big changes but again big conversations so we're looking for big overarching themes not dial dialing into small details tonight so the approach for the 10-year plan is we are creating a baseline for our existing Park system we have a really robust Parks master plan I could tell you a lot about the parks that we're planning right now but not a lot about the maintenance that we have planned for our existing Park system the numbers are going to feel really large we've identified some top projects so Paul Schultz and Eric Madigan helped me put together numbers for the projects as well as priority projects both from uh like a user perspective but also a maintenance perspective we're looking for direction not details so tonight we want to say yes I like option A I like option b not I prefer a purple slide to a green slide so again really high level conversation towards the end of the presentation you'll see that many of the projects don't have a planned year if you feel passionately or strongly about something we'd like to hear that now just because uh more aggressive feedback from the council will allow us to move projects around a little bit we can follow your lead on where funding should go so a little diddy on Park dedication just as a reminder it's required with pling so it's tiered on the type of development so residential has a different rate than commercial industrial residentials per unit based industrial commercial is per acre we generally and typically take cash and low of land Ironwood park with Timber Creek first was an exception than what we typically have done so the expansion area of that Park came in lie of cash dedication um funds must be used for new trails or Parks we cannot do any maintenance with the funds and uh something new that I've added to the slide that I've used a couple times is that the park should benefit the type and location of development so it would be a hard cell to tell lar in Timber Creek that we're looking to add a playground structure in Bluff it doesn't benefit the people that are coming to town so thinking through creating parks for all users including the new group that is funding our Park dedication fund today so thinking about some dollars so 2024 we're slated to uh create a fund for $25,000 per capital fund and then each year consecutively adding an additional $25,000 to that total so in total to the 10year plan we'll have about $1.4 million for Park maintenance so thinking about our existing system reinvesting $1.4 million back into the existing system we have today and 10 years we can probably think of a bunch of projects in our older Parks but as this plan can continues to evolve we'll need to start adding the new parks that we have so Ironwood will start to need to be funded through this since we are out of the park dedication phase with that project and it's not part of our system so some projects that we've identified so 2024 I think uh most of you are aware that we're working towards lion s there's an apostrophe in there the courtz resurfacing for $300,000 uh there's been um the special Capital fund the funding will come from that Fund in 2024 for that project and then we're looking for some Council direction for a project in 2029 so both in community park we'll talk through a couple options um some of the methodology of how we got there and then for Council feedback so the uh Lions Park Court resurfacing happened last in 2011 I um found the picture on the right and I S this to Lynn and c I thought it was like AI generated like I want to get some roller blades and roll but you can see in 2011 the courts were in pretty dire shape so 2011 was a great project resurfaced the courts entirely and we're kind of back to where it was so this is a current condition 2023 so 2011 had some large cracking to the uh where we are today in 2023 um hot off the presses Jonathan Nelson and Fon and M put together some options for us I think Brent probably primed you on um converting this area to tennis pickleball and basketball with some R design so this is the current conditions you'll see tennis on the left basketball on the right so right now there's three basketball hoops one kind of unassigned and then a full court so with the demand for pickle ball and the amount of calls and people talking about it we have it um coming in creek side with four quarts but we feel like there's another opportunity with some of the space tennis is used pretty heavily there but with the addition of basketball and Ironwood we felt like there was a different way that we could use this space so the proposed is keep tennis court um go half cour basketball then two pickle ball courts so thinking through that for the 2024 project for full resurfacing and kind of transforming this area are those I don't know anything about sports ball of the pickle variety are those like full siiz so some details of some fencing that Jonathan put together so again we just got this today so uh looking for some some additional feedback some design work from them but just an idea of how it could lay out differently than what we have today so this will be our 2024 project we'll continue these discussions but if anyone has General feedback about I really like that I went up to the Lions Park with Brent I don't know maybe a week or so ago and we were talking about how this could be repurposed for that so that's kind of exactly what I had in mind good I think looks great I would think that the only additional cost would be the fencing correct y I love it I it's starting to be pickle ball season again now that it's not ridiculously hot and I know that folks are playing in community par almost every single night while the weather is decent like this my only question is I have a friend who's big into pickle ball is it possible to get a net or some kind of barrier between the two courts so that your ball doesn't Ricochet into the neighboring and can you remind me does iron have a full size basketball court it does yep so I feel comfortable with this knowing that too all righty so that's the 2024 project the resurfacing for $300,000 moving into the 2029 project these will be some of the big ideas that we're looking for so uh staff has identified option one being uh full replacement of the community park shelter um Christy I think that you you definitely know this but I want to below someone's mind to say that this uh structure was originally in Riverside Park and it got moved to Community Park really oh wow and Johnny Holmes probably played yes you're not wrong so the structure is obviously really heavily used Community Park is a really popular Park um I would say the kitchen right now meets the needs of some crack Pats and concessions stand but I think we could um Envision a much greater facility for our community Sports to have an upgraded facility you'll see in these pictures that the posts look like they're in pretty rough shape those get upgraded no matter what next year this year next year next year out of the Public Services uh budget so the post will get uh redone but thinking about what it would look like to uh redesign the community park shelter to a more modern look that we have establishment Ironwood so different roof line material Stone Etc bring the kitchen up to a higher standard to allow Community Park to be continued to be used by large community groups so option one I'm going to go through option two and then we'll discuss Christy did you take these two I not take better go yeah option two we are rethinking the play structur at community park so you can see in 2002 they were probably all their age but obviously have aged quite a bit in 21 years uh we're starting to struggle to get replacement parts for some of this equipment so the company that created this playground still exists but they don't uh manufacture a lot of the pieces that we would need so if this playground were to break it would be hard to get the pieces that we need for it current conditions so you can see looks about the same as it did in 2002 as it was being constructed and and some visioning what would it look like to invest $600,000 into a destination playground so upgrading from wood chips to the mat potentially some large play structures creating a destination location for a playground in Carver so again looking for some really big feedback if you feel passionately about option one or option two again it's not until 2029 so a lot could change between here and there but just looking for some general feedback I have a question option one does that mean there would no longer be restrooms okay detail that we haven't figured out yet add towards option one I like option one too but I'm not modeled after that yeah just general style Y and I do think that will be a nice looking upgrade to that um obviously the the shelter we have now has needs for things like team rooms and things like that so I don't Envision an open shelter but I think from for me this takes precedence over good the playground Eric yeah well I agree I like option one and I don't feel strongly either way I'm fine with the other one my question is how and this might be a little I want a green slide but do we need to replace those posts if we're going to replace the whole structure four years later yes okay um and then my other question is a question and I have a suggestion you know you have absolutely killed it with Grant request is there the potential I know there's a nonprofit called Kaboom that works to put together playgrounds is there a way that we could check and see if there are any other grant opportunities for playground equipment so absolutely that it could be both potentially there's a lot of Buzz going around about like inclusive playgrounds too so if that was a priority there's likely great funding too right so I'm hearing star feel well General feedback that option is preferred 2029 so it's a ways off but some good direction for us as we start to think about this plan so additional items in the Parks plan that staff has thought about you'll notice you could probably think about five other projects that should happen and could happen but these were identified as higher priorities so I'm going to go over just a quick overview of all of them and then we'll dive into some of the details so lion bleachers and back stops have has seen it's day not in great shape anymore um Community Park Ice rank um has been a really enlightening experience for me um just talking to Eric Madigan talking about the infrastructure that's there Lions Park playground similar age to community park so again struggling to get some of the features sorry can you go back to the ice rink and share some of Eric's perspectives because I think there's another this is my over have you seen this presentation so um Lions Park not so destination as that we had an for Community Park and then a Bluff Park playground I forgot this a summary slide yeah thanks you actually told me to create that slide all righty so the bleachers and back Sub full replacement at $80,000 this is a pretty heavily used park for um Sports and it's not in great shape so something that we've identified as a need next is the community park ice rink so the Public Services team has to work really really hard to create ice on this site the ice rink is domed in the center so all of the water runs down to the sides it makes the center really thin ice and makes it really challenging so heavily used it's well loved we also it feels like we're starting to get shorter and shorter ice Seasons uh partially due to weather that fluctuates really heavily but also the challenge to keep the rink flooded and to keep that ice at a rate that works for hockey and skating so we have a really big number of $800,000 to replicate this ice rink we have also been thinking is this a great SP for it uh is it something that we would want to do a full redesign put it a different spot and expand Community Park parking in this area so as it functions now it's not a great long-term ice rank but I know it's so well loved by people in this room a lot of people in the community we're not sure that this is the best spot for it based on the Dome of the site and what we can maybe reimagine as we continue to build into some larger Parks so not a decision we're making tonight I don't want you to feel like whatever you say tonight is Gospel but just some big ideas that we've had through creating this plan so $800,000 is a really big number sure is that get us Refrigeration or no so it would be the the full boards um like the ice surface lighting okay you said the word don't what if you put a dome over it what would that cost $7 million 7 million no I don't know question yes but I'm curious just what does that cost because in long term the cost of keeping ice on you know is a whole lot less but why do we need new lighting if we were to move it okay I was going to say it's the winter equivalent of a swimming pool right it's open for really I mean even even shorter amount of time than a swimming pool would be open so I just had no idea and you said the word um this has always been a problem the way it is is um we do is is um with all the expenses that are coming up in the city in general as we grow like I mean we're looking at tax rates that are ridiculous right now in my opinion um and other things so $800,000 that's a really big bite yeah so this didn't make our 10e plan even so it would be Beyond 2032 but just something to have on your radar okay um I think that's an interesting idea about having a new one put in somewhere else um where we could use Park dedication dollars for that um there might be a possibility then to keep maybe just a Leisure rink here a smaller half size Leisure rink and then Park dedication is can can help pay for a new hockey one and then we can still have lighting but it would also then give you some more room for parking which I think is needed it also would be a warming house in that Ander correct okay y right we'll keep cruising through so lines park playground again it's 20 plus years old replacement parts aren available we have it stated for 240 again not programmed in our current plan but if Council feels really passionately can get bumped up uh as we continue through our plan and then Bluff Park again a really heavily used Park um High field usage we saw this summer and we were just thinking about an additional amenity so if someone is watching uh cousin sibling friend play ball there would also be another te at BL Park so it would be an addition of about $80,000 I have a question for this park so this park is heavily used for soccer right now um parking is an issue uh not to say that when you come you don't bring one child was the playground this is a little bit out of the way for to me for a a playground unless you're there for those reasons and you have an exra child with you because on a average day I can go down there and you'll see a couple people maybe walking walking their dogs or whatever until socer happens right so if is it the best use there's two things here so is it the best use of funds to put something like that at this park especially because the Carver Bluff Association has a playground at the top of the hill as well um and then I do get a little bit nervous about this park is very dark um do we have to then consider about having something lit back here um just throw off and just taking a look at that the same argument but you know right now there isn't a path or a trail to that park with the exception of the one that's on us fish life that's a little dark and buggy and sometimes very wet um I'll also argue that I don't think every Park needs to have a playground I agree I I don't have kids you don't have kids you're close to being an empty ner you're close to being an empty nester you know like maybe you know if we're looking for play equipment we don't have a park that has the adult exercise gear you know like what can we play on you know so I don't think yeah that's the absolute lowest priority we is to put in there so just a recap none of these are within our 10year plan but just some ideas that we've identified at a staff level so again just looking for Council feedback to say yep we need to bounce this one way up and that you would be more aggressive allocating funds but from what it sounds like moving forward with uh resurfacing in 2024 at lions and then potentially uh working towards a new community sh at community park in 2029 feels like the right fit did you I'm sorry did you have a somewhat of an idea for this back stop for the year uh it's not within our town plan right now but if you feel strongly about it we could start working with some numbers not necessarily um I know the Lions set aside some money every year in the budget for Lions Park so those are always I know that one thing is De Mark towards bleacher backstop just as kind of a placeholder right now so just always make sure to check in something things up there sounds good that was all I have so just a f point on something there in reference that the 2024 proposed budget then as we continue to talk about it well wouldn't include an inter fund loan to kind of prepay the Lions Park project we would uh proposed to do it in 2024 um move the special Capital fund all into park capital and pay for that project in 2024 is what would be like the amended version of the 2024 budget is that he say that one more time so um right now what you've seen in previous draft budgets uh we had this project you know if you figet what the kind of How It's laid out um being done in 2025 we were going to put 25,000 away in 2024 and then we were going to can you go to that slide on the financing there we are going to essentially borrow from another fund and then use these Levy increases to frankly have it paid off in that you know 2028 period um and then frankly you'd be left then you'd have to do another inter fund loan to do the community park project whatever one you're the the shelter project so what we're proposing is and kind of based on Northland Securities kind of kind of assigning the special Capital fund to a balance moving that to park Capital so you have you know about a $300,000 transfer to park capital in addition to this 25,000 and funding and paying for the Lions Park tennis basketball pickle ball project so that you're not leving for that for the next 5 years and then as you increase this park Capital that but I'll go toward building the fund balance needed to do the community park shelter project in 29 so that's kind of the updated approach and just want to make sure the council concurs with that I am okay with that because I think it's a cleaner process we pay for it immediately and from what you've explained to me it looks better in an audit and hopefully would help us maybe fractionally but towards that better that we're looking for at the end so it ties back to the Strategic plan then can you just share just a commercial on the move to um um kind of decouple us from the special Capital fund and move to Capital just for the folks that are watching and the council so when we're going to be looking at our tenure plan um we'll be having an explanation basically on each of our funds and the special capital fund doesn't really have a plan for the next 10 years because we're not planning on paying for anything out of it and so that to me to me and to other viewers to the the rating agencies it just looks like it's money just sitting there and so it looks better when we're transfering that to our Capital Equipment fund or as gr just called it the parks equipment I mean we're paying for a lot of different things out there and so then we're planning on paying for things out of that fund um and then you're your actively planning on paying for things out of it so just looks to them better that you're making an effort and then our design would be if we have we're in a position to contribute to Capital we would take it to the C at you know out of time the following year and say where would you like this $50,000 place in streets and vehicles and Equipment um and then you always have the ability to by resolution transfer from one fund to the other fund if you uh identify a need and you need to get funds to that spot so um part of it is kind of changing the definitions and part of it is kind of accounting yep has we had a resolution like in the last few years where we've done that just this last year we didn't um so any unallocated fund balance or like extra always went to special went to special now you'll have the ability to say I want 50,000 to go to fire capital I want 25,000 to go to you know um General Capital fund so we've never been like the last few years done it where we've done a resolution to say move you know $20,000 from the water to the park yep you've done that you would you would be doing like you've done uh you proved a transfer uh from the um I think it was the water fund to upfront costs for architectural fees for the Public Services fire department project uh you will be doing that uh to transfer money from sanitary sewer to parks to pay for that land on Ironwood so okay um they don't happen very frequently so I'm not surp like you would probably remember them out of hand it's maybe once or twice a year and it's usually on the consent agenda um and it's typically done around audit time but you might be seeing those on a more frequent basis okay it's just a matter of uh good accounting practices that you know when there are such large amounts of money the council should be aware and approve those transfers from One Fund to the other but it's not what's on like the consent now we're for the um the pardon me the unallocated Y where it's going to come from like two different areas I almost have to look but like where 20% is paid for from one area 80% is paid from the other I can ask dur in bre no it's not like a split up of like 80% is paid from the water this is um if if there's a surplus in the annual budget by either spending less or or getting more in Revenue we have a policy that anything over 50% of the fund balance that we have or required in our policy gets transferred to the special Capital fund and so in the past has paid for any number of projects from Street Maintenance projects to um I think we did a v a vehicle when we sold okay so like in four months from now we won't really even use that term special corre okay right thank you that makes sense yes okay um are we good with that I am I conversation okay um do you have what you need from us I sure do okay if you're okay we'll talk about manag report in the meeting and I would entertain a motion to I'm really