sitting there all right it's 7 o'clock let's call the meeting to order please stand for the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right May and counil I have a couple of uh ads to the agenda after we hear the presentation from Sheriff cude of items for new business um if we can move the existing items down and add uh make 9.1 River Bluff uh River Bluff Villas or Estates infrastructure 9.2 uh the 2019 Improvement project and then we'll go on from there into the organization resolution and the Strategic Plan update so if I could get a motion in a second and an approval from the council to amend the agenda as stated I'll make a motion to approve the agenda as stated from Brent motion by council member Henry I'll second second by council member Mack all in favor I I opposed motion passes all right um resident comments and questions anybody anybody all right um no presentations and reports or I'm sorry we do have a presentation we have uh cover County's new sheriff Jason camd come on up well thank you uh Madame mayor members of the council I appreciate you having me here tonight um I I am Jason camot I'm your new sheriff uh but I'm not new to the Sheriff's Office I have been with the office for 28 years uh started with uh in Carver County when I was uh you know 19 years years old turning 20 the sheriff gave me an initial issue of uniforms and uh you know some a bottle of clear aill and sent me to work and so I I've been there ever since and and uh when uh when Sheriff Jim Olson uh announced his retirement I decided that I was going to run for for the office and and ultimately won in November and I'm just I'm I'm happy to be here uh I wanted to talk just a little bit um about some of the things that I think if I I were on the city council I might question if we had a new sheriff particularly if we're involved in contract policing which is which the city of caror does um I I don't have any plans to make any substantive changes to the contract policing model or to the methodology that we use for calculating contract costs so I think as you go into uh 2019 and You Begin your uh budget planning and and some of those long-term strategies uh just know that our methodology is going to be pretty consistent and so it you know the numbers change of course but the the method of how we got there is pretty consistent and I know your city administrator is pretty dialed in on on how all that stuff works and and so that should make things a little bit easier for you uh organizationally in the Sheriff's Office of course when when Jim retired and and I was elected that Crea a vacancy at the uh Chief depuy's position the position I H before and and uh Pat Barry has accepted that position Pat comes to us he's been with us for about 15 years uh he had five years of Municipal Police policing before that so 20 years Total Service uh he was formerly the lieutenant of our Investigative Services and professional responsibilities and uh then he had been a patrol Lieutenant as well and so he's really squared away operationally guy is wicked kid smart and uh so I'm looking forward to having him uh involved in helping us navigate some of the operational issues that that I'm sure were to uh encounter um that then of course creates some additional opportunities uh that being we had a commander who retired and then Pat vacated a Lieutenant's position and so we're going to stay internally you'll so we'll see some movement in there I think it's we have the talent internally and I just think it's important to uh have that um create th those uh career paths for for our employees um for the city of Carver that will be uh pretty seamless or it ought to feel pretty seamless but uh for your city administrator and your staff there's going to be different names in terms of who's running the operations in in Patrol services and uh in investigations and then as your contract liaison uh the commander will be new Paul cheetah retired um but nevertheless you rest assured we will make sure that whoever is in there is is qualified um you know Paul's pretty tough shoes to fill though but I think we'll be okay uh lastly I just want to talk um briefly about uh you know things that we want to do going forward I I could tell in my months uh of conversations with various city councils city council candidates that uh we have been a little short on our explanation of uh Contracting the model the methodology that we use for getting at Cost how we arrive at what our recommendations are and so in March maybe maybe in April we'll see what it looks like definitely before summer because I know people's calendars fills up I'd like to uh book a meeting with a city administrator and the mayor and probably at least one council member if if uh he or she chooses to to attend from all of the Cities but to to kind of go back and and walk through some of the historical stuff on how we got there I think that's those are things are pretty important to understand when you're making decisions about uh you know public safety issues um and uh you know Contracting and and why we recommend what we recommend and and what there's a um it's easy to get the contract and the numbers in front of you and those are po important things but I think the context and how we got there is really helpful when it comes time to a make a decision but also uh B inform your constituents of of how and why you're you're doing it uh the way you are and then lastly I have to do a Shameless plug for the uh the Citizens Academy we're we're recruiting for our Citizens Academy and if you haven't done it I encourage you to uh to enroll um has been tremendously successful I think everybody who's been there has had a lot of fun and learned a lot about it so it's 11 weeks one night a week three hours um and you'll spend some time in Patrol you'd spend some time in dispatch you'll send spend some time processing a mock crime scene uh you'll have an opportunity to uh uh witness and participate in field coordination exercises and and all of those things that we do and I I think it it really helps particularly for elected officials like yourself to get an understanding of how and why law enforcement does some of the things that we do and it will help you field questions it will help you as you're uh reading reports um to get an understanding of what the rationale was for some of those things and I'm talking for parts like newspaper articles but also if you have access to uh um police parts and so on such I think there's some benefit to it and it's fun you know you you'll probably laugh and giggle all the way through it and so it's time well spent I promise um and then the very last thing I have is just my my usual um I will share my information my all my contact information with Brent and then he can distribute it to you guys so you'll have direct dial and my cell phone um and I would I'm available 247 365 uh for whatever need you have and then uh obviously the sheriff's office is also open 247 365 and so when your citizens ask about hey I saw thus and such what should I do uh if it's a police matter have them call us U our our number is it's 911 you're not you know back in the day uh you only called 911 for emergencies and and uh while that still might technically be the preferred thing we uh the our phone capacity is such that we can handle that and that's just our number so um have them call we're we're staffed 247365 and available to respond to your calls any questions or comments or concerns I things I need to know about is there non-emergency number that we can use too there is the non-emergency number is uh 952 36112 31 and uh a little bit more challenging to remember but but nevertheless that phone gets answered 247 too um I just wanted to say and I've shared with you I participated in the Citizens Academy two years ago right after i' been elected to council and it is so insightful um it's really Hands-On it's Thursday nights again right uh I don't know which night they scheduled it for this go round but you can find it on our website okay it was it was Thursday nights and I remember thinking going into it oh I'm normally dragging by Thursday nights three hours like you're up you're down you're moving there's a you know a fighting action part of it there's such thing as beer goggles who knew um you know it's it was really really insightful and I was really impressed with the sheriff's department on how open and transparent and how um reactive and responsive you were to everyone's questions and it's just a really transparent insightful process so if you guys can spare the time I highly suggest you participate did you put the cuffs on anybody no no all right any other questions Jason we looking forward to working with you the sheriff has always been good to Garver and um if there's any questions you have for us or the city just contact Brent or any one of us and U we'll be more than happy to accommodate thank you I appreciate that thank you thanks for singing by all right um no public hearings up next is the consent agenda I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda we have a motion from council member Henry I'll make a second we have a second from council member SAR all in favor I opposed motion passes all right unfinished business the organizational resolution city manager I believe that we wanted to move up yep so we'll skip that I'm sorry I thought you said 9.1 and 9.2 yeah I thought you said 9 correct okay so then sorry about that we need to get the City attorney on his way okay we always want to keep St meeting we always want to keep the City attorney happy okay well kind of in order to keep the City attorney happy let's discuss 9.1 I think you said that that was River Bluff Estates okay we have any you have the memo off it's just are they looking at the memo yeah okay all right well I'm not talking off anything off the screen so it's just going to be the memo we put together in your packet so uh looking at the river river bluff's uh explanation here that you've probably uh digested if uh if you have anial explan you tonight but ultimately it's a HOA homeowners association that is looking for some advice on uh you know what uh what what they should do about developers request to put wear and course pavement down on their streets this this goes back away it's kind of an unusual circumstance in which uh you know I think it's over 10 years ago the original development started uh some pavement went down a base course uh LIF of pavement went down uh you know through all the the the issues that that occurred you know some 10 years ago that the developer did not finish um however however that occurred they they didn't finish the development so it sat there for a long period of time undeveloped no homes um and then uh the base course was there and then more recently uh there was a new new developers agreement that uh you know Larry Larry was a part of for a new develop uh development what changed the housing Styles but effectively it's the same footprint it went right on top of the uh the original plat and so then they started building up these these homes and they were doing that on top of a base course that had been there for quite some time and what has occurred is the pavement was you know reasonably damaged I mean from as I would as I would speculate it was damaged from the construction equipment on this this base course that had been in place for a long time the HOA had had some concerns that okay if they put the wear course down are they fulfilling their agreement uh to to give us a good good Street section with a good pavement and you know that that is ultimately what I was reviewing is has taken a look at is is this the right thing to do so all all circumstances aside I'm just going to talk purely about the what the findings uh what what we did look at is the pavement and the trails and the side and the and the curb and say what's what's typical what would we do this is a private Street and it's an HOA and a developer but I'm just going to look at this purely from the perspective of uh if if any type of a public Street uh you know we're reviewed like this what would we do and the the finding would be we would not put the W course on it there's there's far too much cracking and damage that that that we've we've seen and which if you did put that W course lift on we'd likely expect that to crack right through and it's it's going to have a premature uh failure more maintenance in the future than you'd typically need on a on a new roadway uh and we' we'd expect some some uh pavement failures uh in the near future so the the finding on on our part was if we were to to go ahead and look at this circumstance with the pavement as it is today we would probably go back and recommend it be reclaimed which means effectively you take take that base Court pavement out uh grind it up you put the base base course of uh of rock back down and then you put two new lifts of pavement uh on top of that you you'd effectively rebuild it is is you know how it put it so if if we were to say to the homeown homeowner association what would we do that is it and uh the thing is what's unique about this is that goes to the HOA and then they're they're faced with uh well okay now what do what do we as a HOA do and there is a letter of credit that was that Larry secured uh that is outstanding here with $166,000 left in it the original letter of credit from their first development expired so it's it's great that a new one was put in place with uh with the new develop development and so there is money set aside and that that's intended to a secure placement of the wearing course pavement and so that the agreement's pretty specific that the wearing course has to be accepted so this gets into be a little bit of a I guess a complicating scenario in which we don't necessarily have a position to mandate anything as far as how they might go about taking care of these repairs prior to putting the W course down but we we do have an agreement that's pretty explicit that says we have to accept the end result and it would be my opinion that we would not accept the end result if that wearing course was put on that base course because we know it's going to crack up crack up and fail prematurely in in any normal set of circumstances so um I could probably go on about this a fair amount but it this really comes back to you know how how we would want to be proceeding with uh these recommendations moving forward and I'm not sure if you want to add if you want let Larry to speak as to what our position is here okay I I I'll try not to go over what Dan has gone over I will point out that the security here is a little different it's not a letter of credit um the city there's a cash escrow there's 166,000 or $167,000 sitting in an escrow account and it can't be dispersed without the permission of the of the uh City it's effectively operates the same as a letter of credit but it's the developer's money it's sitting in a three-party agreement between the city the developer and a title company so there is Cash collateral there the property was originally platted in 2004 and as many of you will remember the improvements went in and nothing happened nothing was ever built um it was a source of considerable consternation to the city for many years that nothing happened there um finally the developer came back with a plan for a new product essentially detached villa homes built on the existing footprint the existing Street was in with the first lift of bituminous in place the city approved that they applied for River Bluff estate second edition that was in 2015 there was a developers agreement the developers agreement is pretty specific that the Financial Security secures certain specific things including the installation of the second lift of bituminous the developer was supposed to have done that by August 31st of 2016 didn't do so um the developers agreement says that the second lift andinus has to be done in accordance with the requirements of the city engineer the issue that we need guidance from that the staff needs guidance from is does council want to get involved in this matter this is not a public Street it's a private Street we took the security to get the second lift on candidly because the city had had some concerns and there had been performance issues in the past with this development um most town home developments um and row house developments the classic the other example would be the Cent row homes uh uh are done on private streets they're primarily done on private streets because of the density and the width of the streets they can't meet City standards um so the issues concerning the Improvement and the maintenance and the ongoing responsibility of those streets aren't City issues uh the developers agreement clearly states these aren't city streets they're never going to be City Streets Could the city declare a default under the developers agreement I understand what Dan is saying and I think you could probably say yes likely a pretty significant dispute is going to ensue so the issue right here for the council is does the city want to get involved in what is inherently a private Street matter recognizing that the past council with eyes wide open made sure it took security to get the second lift on because it was a concern at the time um from a conversation that Dan and I had last week maybe you can talk to Ann about what you estimate the cost of reclaiming replacing the first lift and putting in a correct second lift would be that's probably something relevant for the council sure you know we we would ballpark we don't have exact numbers or quotes but just a ballpark that the wearing course uh final lift might might be a 4040 to $50,000 issue for the devel veler so they might have something uh like that in their minds uh if they were to just go finish up finish up the wearing course excuse me then that was4 or $50,000 for the wear course yeah for the wear course without replacing the without doing anything else got it yep uh and so that that's probably their expectation somewhere around there if if they were to do what we think would be appropriate and typical for your your you know typical public Street it might might be in the neighborhood of 100 50 so there's going to be a very big discrepancy uh and that will definitely get their attention and that as Larry indicated that they would probably not well I can't speculate but I would assume that they're not going to take that L down and say yep okay uh and so I I think that what we're getting at is this this could be a disputed issue and you know how how do we how do we take take our position on a private Street matter and in some respects we could say we're assistant and offering guidance if it gets to the point where we're not approving their wearing course and taking $160,000 out I mean I I think Larry would really have to explain how that would play out the second part of Dan's comment is a whole separate issue because at that point City there there are different levels of City involvement um I mean under the developers under a typical developers agreement on a public Street if the developer defaults and doesn't build it I mean could the city ultimately pull down on the collateral the letter of credit go in and actually build and fix the street itself yes um this one's a little different because the security is obenson volvement one potential level of City involvement would be telling the developer effectively what Dan is saying and saying we're not releasing the cash collateral the escrow until this gets resolved which might be a first step other steps under the terms of the developers agreement the city has the right including in this developers agreement the city has the right if it determines there's a default to refuse to issue certificates of occupancy that is an exceedingly penal remedy because usually in that case the unit the home is sold and you've got somebody new moving into the community and you're not going to give a CO so they can't move into a house that they've sold probably have already got mortgage financing and everything else that one's really aggressive and I'd be cautious about using that I will tell you that in my career I put that in my developers agreement I've never used it unless there was a problem with a particular unit or house you know where we said no the the developers agreement also says you don't have to issue building permits there's a default now that's a different remedy because and there are still several several unbuilt Lots up there um I didn't do an exact count when I looked at it um but that's also something the city could do as a means to attempt to get the developers attention could we use that for leverage yes you could I mean the issue is how far does the city want to get involved in a private Street matter you know typically U the City attorney will say uh these are private matters these are private property right matters and the city shouldn't be involved candidly when the second phase of this development came in the city was concerned that's part of the reason we have that's part of the reason we have the cash security um so I I don't like cities getting involved in private Street matters but I think it's a policy decision the counil needs to make is to how far you want to go can I ask a question about a couple steps further down the road so the first option you described where the city says I'm not going to release the cash escrow until this issue is resolved right and let the Developers propose a resolution so let's say the developer proposes the resolution they're just going to put that second code on and done and not replace the base layer so we're saying as a city that doesn't meet the city Engineers requirements is that a violation then of the developer agreement that's that's when the argument's going to inist okay and you know that's where you know depending on where this goes you know we could end up litigating this okay so let's set that aside so let's just say say that they put that second code on there which the city engineer has said if we if the developer does that is going to last maybe a year there's going to be more problems with that street since it's a private Street what does the homeowners association have to deal with that it's their issue it's their issue it's not ours absolutely understand but is and I don't know about the homeowners association agreement but they I assume that typically a homeowners association would then have to work with the developer to get that street repaired how would they go about doing that I can't I can't speculate on what the HOA would do but yes that would be a dispute between the HOA and the developer okay all right I mean the Practical issue is the city's holding money and as council member Henry said there are some leverage aspects to this and I'm not it's you know this is a dicey act because it's not a public street but we are holding cash collateral because there were concerns that issues may arise with getting improvements in Sol and we wanted to prevent that yeah understand go ahead could we communicate anything that would create a timeline you know asking them to have whether it be a base coat or the more recommended done at certain amount of days we we certainly can I mean the developers agreement required them to put the second lift on by August 31st of 2016 and they didn't do that okay I didn't realize that and we haven't done anything or threatened anything because of that so you said city right that I can't speak to okay you said the developer was required to put the second the second lift of by two minutes was supposed to be on by August 31st of 2016 so basically they defaulted on that agreement but if they didn't do it like who are they accountable to back to the HOA since they didn't do that at the 216 deadline who are they accountable to for it is it deine established by the city that within the developers agreement for them to do that and they defaulted on that they have not done that that's correct and that I I want to be careful because I'm not I'm the City attorney and not the city engineer but I believe the city engineer has some thoughts about what may have happened happened to the W course or the base course because the W course wasn't put on and you might want that and that's yeah that that doesn't help the issue because it I would really speculate that the the base was just beat up with a lot of the construction activities it was sitting there for eight years and generally you speaking you don't want to let it sit for indefinitely because it's not much pavement and that's a lot of heavy equipment on it so I'd say it broke up you know it's it's it's already in the on the stage as a failure at this point from all that activity so so yeah that that wasn't ideal it it expedited the the failures of and ultimately I think it results in that the HOA would end up having to pick up additional maintenance costs uh versus had the street been put in in a in in the proper fashion I think that's ultimately what this comes down to is if it gets done ideally the the developer is paying a lot more than he's expected to he's expecting to and if if it doesn't get done you know the right way the HOA would end up picking up the maintenance costs thus thus the challenge here so I just have a couple of questions regarding the the timeline I is it safe to say that the pavement didn't degrade in the last two years that this was a longer process and I'm kind of referring to that August 31st 2016 deadline well yeah I mean I would I would say from from the information that we have it it wasn't the first four years where it started to break up if pay isn't touched it's generally not going to not going to show the types of cracking that it's it's shown right now okay so I would say the the last last two to three years when whenever the heavy equipment was on it was probably where it started to to fail the way it did because that that type of cracking is is it's atypical of of pavement just sitting there untouched why didn't we on September 1st of 2016 have a conversation with with the developer did we I guess I'm just kind of curious a little bit of the historical knowledge on this and why why and how this came to be an issue right nower pardon we had different engineer at the time well typically in a smaller development like this you won't see the final kind of to the city Engineers comments you won't see that final wour until the majority of the black top or the majority of the home construction is completed so it's a um kind of a one-off and that that black top the base course was put down so long ago so that so that length of time contributed to the breakup of the base course but if you would have laid down the W course on this you'd basically be having the same problem but it' just be the W course that would be crumbling and not the base core so it have compounded the problem so I can't I don't recollect the conversation but just based on past practice with the prior city engineer and city planner that was that's typically how the city will handle an issue like that there are um every single development agreement we put uh deadlines for um black top and Etc uh then quite typically the city engineer and city planner along with probably the building official Public Services director Etc there'll be a conversation about should should this be extended in order to uh create a better uh infrastructure product that again though based on when this was put in and the fact that they're private streets there's a there is I grant you there's a unique set of circumstances here okay and then the HOA brought it up to us most recently correct the uh residents who are within the HOA asked the city for um basically some advice or an interpretation um and so I offered to have the city engineer do a report and so this is the report that the city engineer has prepared um and kind of developing The Narrative for this looked at the developers agreement uh which provides some context for the escro um and some additional pieces for the council to consider I would think that I'm sorry I just have one more question um so Larry does putting together this report does this put us in a liability issue of not if we choose not to hold their feet to the fire that we're aware of the the poor condition of this pavement the developers agreement clearly obligates the developer to install the second lift we're totally within our rights on that the developers agreement says it has to be done in conformance with the requirements of the city engineer I mean I think we've got we certainly have a leg to stand on to require that um and and to say they have to do it the and this would be certainly much clearer if it was a city street the issue is we're intervening as the city into a private property manner matter but candidly that's part of the reason that the city took the security here um I mean the streets and the utilities were already in but there had been problems in the past I'm done do we do the snow removal so they handle all the snow removal so everything that's done on that property is to the homeowners association correct well my feeling is it's still lipstick on a pig if they just put their Ware course over the top of the base course because that's going to crack exponentially fast I think and the homeowners first recourse is going to go to the homeowners association but inevitably it's going to end up here and there somebody or it's going to end up Brent's going to hear it C attorney's going to hear it um I'd like to get in front of it I'd like to see the roads fixed first I think the Basco should be teared off and put on but is that the city's responsibility to orchestrate that you're saying yes my that was a question mark sorry and I I don't want to put words in your mouth if the developer is just going to go and put a wour on um and then they're going to expect to have their escrow basically um released to them and in two years that road it's going to be it's going to be bad and and I understand the the private road versus a public street but it's basically a new development per se I mean yeah it's 14 years of of asphalt the W or the the base card um that's just been exposed to the elements and just a frost and he that's going to destroy them you can look at the road any streets that are public in 14 years I mean just look at Sixth Street sixth Street's a mess too but we will take care of that one day um but that's going to be a base course issue too it's I don't know I think that we should somehow use some type of Leverage to make sure that the base course gets completed first mayor counil if I could there's basically two choices that you have you could one you could just forward the letter onto the HOA and the developer as a FYI and let them resolve the issue as they determine or two you could direct the City attorney and city engineer to prepare a letter that would in essence tell the developer that the city's expectation is that is that the base course and where course go in for the city engineers's recommendation which is in this packet that thee be reclaimed then the additional base course be put on and then the wear course be put on after that but I think that would it would get us a good start to frame it in terms of those two choices sure so I guess I would like to amend option b that you presented Brent because my biggest concern with this is that my concern is that if the city doesn't do something and hold the developer accountable for the developer agreement why do we even have them right this can be applied to any other development within Carver right why is the city not holding up holding the developers to their agreements with the city that's kind of my base concern here um and so that letter being saying this is the city's recommendation is to replace the base course and apply then apply the W course to be compliant with the agreement and fulfill the agreement that we had with the developer Joy I excuse me well said I think that Mir is at least what I was thinking with myself I think it is isn't isn't prudent for us to just throw the HOA to the wolves and say right you're on your own because we did Miss deadlines there are in the agreement things that were supposed to be done taking care of haven't been I think that what you stated the second option is what I would prefer I'm right there with you so I'm feeling kind of based on precedent that I've been aware of so I'm kind of thinking back to the lift station from the help me with the name of the neighborhood uh Carver Bluffs West Carver Bluffs West um when they had some issues instead of kind of stepping in and managing that process we as a city declined to participate in that and I think I'm kind of coming from a place this is a private private Street I do understand where you're coming from and the developers agreement and why I have them um and that's I think probably a different more defensible argument um because the impression that I am getting from our City attorney is that it's going to be a best a slippery slope to enforce um and I am favoring because of that option one of just sharing with the HOA because it's a private Street that's where I come from if I'm not mistaken the lift station was in the developers agreement that the Home Owners Association was responsible for itre just like the street it was in the developers agreement that being said we stayed out of it a it's a it's a totally soldout development and they're responsible for it this still has lots available in there um and it's been 14 years since that course was put down has there been any [Music] other um Street Maintenance up in the Bluffs where this area where the lift station and stuff that the home that the homeowners association has to take care of themselves to kind of make it Apples to Apples yeah I'll give it to you that it's not an Apples to Apples issue but I you know there are other private streets I just where I'm coming from is this is private and I don't see it as the city's role to step in you know what if there's a big snowfall and their snowfall contractor doesn't show do we start plowing the streets like where do we yeah and and not to interrupt you that's a horrible example but but but I totally understand what you're saying I guess just to clarify my position a little bit is the the the second layer is part of the basic development that's where I'm coming from so let's say the developer did everything they were supposed to do for the agreement get the second wear layer on there by 2016 and let's say because they let it go for so many years with that base layer and there was damage and even per the city Engineers recommendation that that second wear coat even if it had been put on a couple years ago may not last very long and let's say the HOA comes back and says hey we got problems with this road now then I think I would say you know what this is a private matter the developer met the agreement initially for the development the basic requirements of the development were out this is a private matter between the HOA and the developer that's how I would feel about it it's just because this is in my mind part of the basic development agreement between the city and the developer for the development they didn't fulfill their they didn't fulfill the the the agreement and it I think it' just be like lipstick on of Pap but sooner later it's going to go and more sooner than later Brent do you want a motion from us tonight do you want this to go through or does this need to be on another I think it would be helpful just because of kind of the how this might play out and especially if there's not uh unanimous consensus I'd like to have clear Direction in the form of a motion so that we can I can work with Larry and Dan to make sure this is put out correctly can you repeat the the no but I mean repeat the um the language that you need in that motion sure so I I'll second one was very long I'll base it off of council member MC Knight's um kind of phraseology if that's a word the that we direct that the council would be directing the city engineer and City attorney to prepare car Corr respondents that would require the developer to um meet the requirements of the developer's agreement uh specifically the Reclamation of the existing base course and then Paving a new base course and wear course I would like to make that motion but I would like to not try and repeat it so we have a motion by council member Mach I would like to second that we have a second by council member mcnight all in favor say I I I oppos nay we'll do a roll call council member Henry I council member Mack I Mayor Johnson nay council member SE I council member mcnight I thank you all right motion passes on to 9.2 the 2019 Street Improvement P thank you thank you thanks Larry so mayor and Council we on the screen this is kind of a um a reboot of our work session discussion held earlier this evening on the 2019 project uh where we left off from the city Engineers comments um was a the sidewalk discussion on kchy hill and so with that I'll turn it to over to council member Mach thank you and thank you everyone for allowing me the time to um talk about this Brent could you click on that triangle parcel there just so we can kind of Orient ourselves thank you so obviously we've been going through the discussion about the street improvements and we've been talking about sidewalks as part of the project for um kers Hill Drive and dedri um I was reviewing some of the um obviously aerial photos in the area and it occurred to me that if you look to the left of the screen you can see a curv trail there and where the um former Road easement is that trail right there comes out from community park and then it dumps into High Street so we have a a trail to Nowhere um the street or excuse me the parcel across the street which is highlighted in yellow um is actually a city-owned piece of property we are talking about so I'll reference this I'll bring this all back together if we're looking at going down Kersey Hill and then dedri drive to Forth Street with the new proposed Trail section as part of that street Improvement project we would also be creating another Trail section that dumps straight into a road it's another sidewalk or pedestrian access to Nowhere now when we had talked about this at a previous meeting I know that council member Johnson and council member Henry who were here the other two you guys were not here had talked about connectivity as being the main reason behind wanting to put these um sidewalks down Kersey and dedri when we're talking about connectivity um another piece that was mentioned by the former mayor was that being able to have that Connect into the downtown I can't remember if that was um agreed uh an agree sentiment with everyone else on the council at the time but I know that it was brought up to be able to move foot traffic from up at community park and these upper neighborhoods to the downtown so when we're looking at adding these new sidewalks in we are looking at we have in historically I should say we have talked about having as as few as possible and keeping it to a minimum that we would have um sidewalks or pedestrian accessways or trails that would lead into an uncontrolled intersection section so now we have one that is coming to an uncontrolled intersection coming off of the trail system by the yellow triangle we would be adding another uncontrolled Trail section or pedestrian section on the same place basically on High Street this one is a little bit off of high so my question and I guess thought process is rather than running the trail down Kersey Hill and dedri if connectivity is what we are really after and we want to move people to the Fourth Street sidewalk because if we're we're going to dedri drive the reason there's a curb cut put there for the sidewalk is to move people across the street to the sidewalk that could lead them into downtown we already have basically that same thing a block up the road we could connect the sidewalk that is coming down Kersey have it come down either side of High Street and then either connect with the trail or they can both Connect into that city-owned piece of property that's on the yellow triangle then we would continue to have one section of an uncontrolled intersection Crossing for a sidewalk rather than adding an additional one um I guess I wanted to bring that up as a thought process that we could look at it from that little bit bigger scope of not just bringing it through that one neighbor but how are we going to connect then community park and not adding adding another I don't want to I don't know problem is the right word but adding another problem I'll say that for now for lack of coming up with a better one in my cold medicine Haze but um so I think we should look at possibly connecting we have a trail section there like I said that goes to nowhere and we have the opportunity to connect it um to Four Street already thank you so if I may um I just think my initial feedback on that is is that does nothing so first of all it's outside of the project area right so we would have to amend that and this isn't an area we're talking about I appreciate you giving this some thought and kind of thinking about different ways that we can look at this and connectivity um that's important to me and I appreciate you putting the thought and time into that that said um the I still favor the sidewalk going down kchy then to Dietrich and then connecting across Fourth Street there and my reasoning is this um I think if we connect if we cross Fourth Street there there's a significant curve in Fourth Street there um which is not as safe as the straightaway where it is a little bit further to the what would be that be the West um or I'm sorry the East uh yeah Northeast um there's also you talked about a trail to Nowhere well right now we already have a sidewalk to Nowhere which borders my property at kiry and 4th Street um so to have that does nothing to H to amend That Sidewalk to nowhere I think um you know these homes back here have young kids that doesn't do anything to give these folks a safe place to walk to teach their kids how to ride a two-wheeler um and it's my preference still to have the sidewalk down kiry and then Dietrich and then connecting on Dietrich that way too you're not cross ing kchy which is one cross then you're Crossing Fourth Street which is another and then you're Crossing Fourth Street again to get downtown it would be I'm confus I'm sorry to say that again so the trail you cross High Street and then you cross Fourth Street so it's three and then sorry Cross High Street you cross fourth and then you have to cross fourth again to get down the hill on a sidewalk um with this you go from kiry to Dietrich without Crossing a street and then while not my favorite you've got to cross Fourth Street twice to get downtown but that's a snap snapshot in time and potentially that would change right however again outside of the project scope it is out but I don't want to Blinder ourselves either saying well we have we're even just going to push through because this is where we're at I think if we were to decide that this is something we want to change in the project scope or we say it's for a different time project scope because technically it doesn't have to connect in that we can change it we have I mean yeah so I I don't want to push things through for saying well we've started this path and we're just we have to stay agree agree uh the other thing though that concerns me a little bit is that with it kind of in the vein of this being outside the project scope um these folks in this project area aren't going to be assessed for the sidewalks their assessment will not raise or lower if we take these sidewalks out these folks who you're suggesting the sidewalk go on and again taking myself out of the equation will be assessed so we're adding four more folks who wouldn't have been assessed if it were be let's just say it were to be added to this project if the city if if the city technically as a whole is paying for the sidewalk that would go on Kersey would that be the same for going along High well the the mayor and Council the section that you'd be putting on high would be on city property so there wouldn't be if we were looking at where the yellow triangle is I think she's advocating putting it the line I'm just saying if we went she was talking about running it from kiry down to Fourth Street on necessarily advocated I'm just saying if we were to look at that or object or sorry look option would the city as a whole be paying for that sidewalk the same as if it were on kiry or would the homeowner now suddenly be a no I would say I would say that in most cases you're we the city would not be able to show a benefit of just putting a sidewalk to the point where you'd be able to establish an assessment um we'd probably if you're asking me to speculate we'd be the same situation where there folks might kind of similar to KY and Dietrich or what side of this Street should That Sidewalk be on should it be on the east side of high or the west side of high sure but but the I mean you would more than likely want to want to do that and you could establish funds to do that do it outside of the project because the when the council sets the uh parameters for the project there's a public hearing and so you designate certain areas where those projects can occur um but a stretch of sidewalk that small you could certainly find another source of funding Beyond bond funds to to fund that if the council so chose to do that and I'm and thank you Brent and I'm not saying I necessarily want to trade one like one fight for another I just want to look at this as the overarching picture if we're looking at connectivity then let's really look at it so I agree with mayor Johnson's all her comments regarding the sidewalk on kiry I'm totally on board with all those reasons to put it there as it's designed in the proposed plan um but I also agree with you that we need to think bigger pictur so one of my questions is I know we did as a city a task force on walkability and I know we identified gaps it would be great if we're cognizant of those gaps and look at some of the propos like Brendon is proposing hey look at a special special funds to close some of those gaps or when we're having projects working on those areas say hey we identified that we wanted to put a trail here we wanted to make a connection here let's do it with some other things it would be great to have that do we have that yeah so I'm making a lot of assumptions here doing this by the next meeting please so we do have a sidewalk budget within the general fund and there's you know it's kind of ironic there are there are two areas that uh Brian skull and I discussed last summer related to gaps in our system one was we noticed that there was especially for school events when folks parked in carver station they were trailblazing where there wasn't a sidewalk or a trail to get to the corner of Ironwood and Harwell so they're cutting across grass and so um Brian facilitated a um the construction of a basically a black top trail from the corner of carver station over to the trail system where Ironwood and Heartwell meet so that people could go from the parking lot to that corner and the second area and this was um just something that I've noticed in walking this area is that that to council member MOX point there is a sidewalk to Nowhere coming out of community park and is that another area that we could just extend that trail at least to get folks across the forth uh we just didn't have the funds to do that at that time sure but you know this could be kind of a preview into one of our future agenda items for this evening we're looking at our strategic plan is look looking back at that report identifying gaps in our system um prioritizing them and then finding funding sources to do that because I there's probably a half a dozen or more other places that sure have gaps yep uh that could be rectified good I'm glad I'd like to take Christy's suggestions and add it to kind of that list of the connectivity um rather and then I'd like to see this project just stay more focused on the infrastructure the improvements on street and sidewalk that we've already prioritized correctly so you you want to stay focused on what was already presented as the as the um plan yes okay thank you um as far as the connectivity um I want to make sure or to clarify question so the triangle that's highlighted I mean that is really small 78 less than a tenth of an acre but it is adjacent to that home property that Townline Road is not there correct G correct it's Gil filling but it's it's a right away for Gil fill that hasn't been improved other than having a city Trail you know okay and the homeowners are maintaining it and they're maintaining the City outlet correct okay um I would like to see added to this idea of more you know the connectivity is where that trail ends I wish I had a pointer right now but um I know I'm pointing on my screen so I'd say uh the trail ends well right at yeah right where he yes right where your cursor is and then to go south on High Street South South yeah and then and then kind of Southwest on Fourth Street because if you get down further there is you would connect to three sidewalks and a crosswalk oh boy yeah or you're saying to run it up that on that side of and I mean that ah yes there we go because then you would have you'd be connecting to three sidewalks and a stop sign and a crosswalk stop sign at this intersection y that would be certainly be a safer crossing the crossing Fourth Street right on that curve that visibility is tough on the curve on High Street I can that said I think kind of in line with what Brent was saying about the the path that was put in from the parking lot of carver station these are small amounts of sidewalk right that still cost big bucks so we can cross that bridge when we come to it but yeah I think we were thinking more so my mind can you take that triangle and put it down at the bottom of the screen and slide it to the left pull it down can you see that middle part first take take the whole there you go move it down down down down and left a little bit more and down down down right there okay you can't quite see it um more down more left on Fourth Street on Fourth Street at um at what's the Street elth sidewalk no no no where Daryl lives on the hill ashh Ash there's there's a trail Crossing there correct at an uncontrolled intersection half of it is there's a stop sign coming down there's not one going up it's a two-way stop correct correct so there is for the people coming up there's still they don't have to stop and that's uh there's a trail Crossing there marked in white going across the street correct like the Sidewalk Ends on what I'll call the South side and you have to go on the St Nicholas side to go up forth if you're at the corner of fourth in Ash Street there's two stop signs one coming up Ash one coming down forth correct correct there is not one coming up at the at that intersection right there is a trail Crossing there yes marked in white correct yes are we going to Mark the streets um if we move forward with this at Dietrich and Forest Street with a trail paint like a hash marked Crossing talking about asking would we pain the blocks the we blocks to indicate Trail crossing that's what you're asking well would we Mark the street it's a council's prerogative we in the higher traffic areas we'll have signage and have crosswalk blocks but we don't have crosswalk blocks no not blocks just just um the white paint on the street marking a marking a trail Crossing I think you're saying the same thing crosswalk correct there you go would we put one of those at Dietrich and Fourth Street do you want to I would suggest it we'll do whatever you the council asks us to do yes well if if we're going to direct tra uh pedestrian traffic to a dead end there should be I'll I'll defer to the city engineer he's he knows more about this than I do um this is a pretty pretty big topic just because it's it's had lots of review and and they do advise that generally speaking that uh and and uncontrolled cross crossing locations under certain circumstances here you you you would actually not stripe it and that's only only to give the pedestrians more caution as they enter into the street so there's certain certain levels in which you want The Pedestrian to be more worried about walking out there is is the theory and they they have shown that there's some safety advantages to the to the pads not feeling comfortable walking out into the street because uh they they feel like they have an entitlement to be there when the crosswalk blocks are there and so it it's it's carefully evaluated based on the speeds of the traffic and and how much traffic is going down the street as to whether or not we'd mark it so that that's that's the I guess the technical rationale based on some of the data that's out there on on P safety I um for now um so I would like to say I think that most of the council knows that I have spoken out against the sidewalk on KY Hill Drive in the past um when I look at this and we're looking at that we are we are including a sidewalk now for only six houses the dedri drive that kind of comes around that curve in the back they don't have sidewalk there isn't sidewalk coming down the other piece of here um oh dedri sorry all the way around and then um so we we are not providing sidewalks for that group but we are providing it for the people on kers hill and making that um a priority saying that needs a sidewalk but we're looking at the other one two 3 four five six um 7 8 nine 10 on the other side of the road I mean you're looking at I'll just say 15 houses that we seem unconcerned with providing them with uh sidewalk and yet these six houses have somehow become a very big Focus for having the sidewalk there um I'm not sure why looking at having them cross possibly earlier um or not at all in this either of these two locations is not a better option um again we're not providing the sidewalk to to the neighborhoods that are around Dietrich drive and we're saying that's okay but we're saying kers Hill must have it for connectivity and I just that that logic doesn't work with me um and I do think we're we're pushing something through with this urgency but although it's only I mean it's it's six houses that we're doing it and again it's uncontrolled intersections when I hear the engineers say sometimes we don't stripe it because we want people to be uncomfortable I get the methodology behind that and how that works but that frightens me a little bit to say we want people to be uncomfortable Crossing in a road we don't want to make it them to feel too safe that they are actually more on guard when they're Crossing worries me a little bit more also um I think I can leave it at that for now I think everyone knows my kind of stance on the Kersey Hill sidewalk my concern is you're just basically stating now that everybody that we're doing the whole project for doesn't need a sidewalk well on all the trails that we have throughout the town it's not everybody that's just in that immediate area that's on the trails I mean when I walk I'll walk but when I get to the sidewalk to nowhere and I'm going downtown I got to walk in the street I'm not going to walk back to the park to go down the trail to cut down Andross Fourth Street at the intersection that you pointed out at the tri no that's not doesn't make sense it's not common sense you want to have flow with people you want to have a little bit of continuity and you want to make a connectability we did the walkability study we were the plan is to make it sustainable for everybody to be able to walk through town to get from A to B whether it's up down Midtown wherever we mandate that people have trails in the new in the new developments we're redoing the streets we're getting everything up to code the houses that are back there will use the sidewalks on kiry they will use them on dietr on that short little strip if they're there if they're not there you're just saying sorry you're going to walk out in the street because they will walk from there from High Street over to Forest Street and cross the road whether there's a sidewalk there or not now they're in the street not on the sidewalk I'd rather have people walking on a sidewalk it's a lot safer I mean we don't have people walking down Sixth Street in the middle of the street there's a trail there and I would for me the difference between the two RADS roads right why we're not having a sidewalk on Dietrich versus kchy Hill is that kchy Hill connects to Sixth Street right that's kind of a connector through there and it's got sidewalk all the way from Sixth Street up until you know the first house or whatever past High Street and then it ends right so it's kind of going to Nowhere um and Dietrich ends in kind of a I don't know I guess I'd call it a c AAC I'm looking at a map but it kind of dead ends it's a dead end called AAC right so they're kind of different streets in my mind one is more of a connector that has an existing sidewalk on I don't know a couple blocks of it and missing it on one block I believe the term is a feeder Street yeah okay and Christy I know I'm not going to change your mind on this and I appreciate our difference of opinions but you know you mentioned that trail to Nowhere there's literally the sidewalk to nowhere and keeping it going down KY having it serve as a connector between fourth and Sixth Street keeping it on that Southwest side of Dietrich then we don't have again if we put it on the northeast side then there wouldn't have been another sidewalk to Nowhere you know in my mind this is the best possible scenario to you know we talk about having a walkable City the connectivity study the walkability study this is helping us get further with that um and I think you're thinking that this is only going to benefit six homes is a i respectfully think it's flawed because my nephews will go up and down that sidewalk folks who live on this end of the neighborhood will be able to walk downtown you know I've shared before in this forum the antidote of my family being in town and US walking downtown for the treer lighting ceremony it was no issue when it was still light out to walk down kchy but on the way back up we walked up Fourth Street because we didn't feel safe walking in the dark along KY I drive home that way and I've been scared more than a few times when driving home from a council meeting to see somebody out there walking um so I think that this is best for connectivity and best for safety if I may switch in Gears just a little bit um at one point we had as potentially an option um a trail extension along Spring Creek Drive just east of Meadows at Spring Creek is that still in play correct it's still in the plans okay and nobody's here debating that trail yeah we're all good we're all good with that section yeah wait till they move in all right so mayor and Council what we're so the summary of the findings is essentially what we're we're asking for the council's uh support or change in language for the things that we'd be communicating to the residents in this next update um and so if the council can agree to that or have build some type of consensus to that you'd still have the opportunity to vote up or up or down the plans and specifications uh that the city engineer prepares for their meeting on the fourth which could include sidewalks or streets but the basically the four planks that we'd have within the the updated summary for residents and then invite them to the uh open house on the 31st would be to share that the typical assessment for both the water and sanitary sewer utility uh would be reduced from 25,000 to 19,200 as it relates to Street width Street W to remain as proposed in the feasibility study except Elm Drive uh based on the Fire Marshall requirements uh parking parking consistency with adjacent streets uh would stay the same so Elm would be widen to 26 ft uh but still would be no parking on either side uh sidewalk the the sidewalk on kchy would have the 8ft boulev or the 3-ft boulevard with the 5-ft walk and that the fourth plank would be the no truck traffic signage for the alley um so those were kind of the four pieces that we heard for follow-ups uh if you want staff to kind of amend you know what we'd be sharing with the c or sharing with residents this would be the time to tell us you know we want this we think that's too strong or we want this to be changed otherwise we'll put it out there like that we'll get the feedback and then ultimately the council can uh vote on the plans and specs at your meeting on February 4th and these are just bullets that you went through right no truck you'll expand on that no truck traffic signage will be installed downtown on the Alleyways okay right so you need a motion from us just Guidance just guidance uh I would say just guidance and that you know we wouldn't typically come to you with a you know give us your support on a communication but because we've talked about this in different settings we want to be sure that we're not putting something out there that the council feels uncomfortable with so I just want to make sure if there is something like I don't want that out there that there's an opportunity for you to address that as a group um and then we can react to that and amend uh ultimately where I understand there'll be there could be a situation where you don't agree but then I want that just to be kind of on the record that you know the majority of you want this to be a certain way noting that there's going to be an opportunity to vote on that at a later date but I just want to make sure that we have all our te's crossed and Ice outed I have a couple things I agree on the content um I think that'd be something great to move forward with I would like to see it divided out into four projects um just because I think those that are most impacted are really going to just look at theirs and rather than to decipher okay what's their street width versus the other project we can't really break it out it's four projects though can we four explanations four explanations that's different sorry four explanations within the project and then um I would like to see more specifics on the signs so maybe that will be presented at the open house um as far as where they're located the size um CU I just thinking about what I would anticipate residents asking yep we can do that there'll be uh those are my only three things that i' maybe amend otherwise I think the content is great but I'd like to see the four pieces of the entire project separated and specifics on the signs when you say separated you want them on separate like individual like individual mailings like per Pro like per project or can be all in the same just separated by I don't think you would need separate mailings just so that organized separately I think the intent is to minimize confusion and question right what impacts project on time on schedule right yep minimize the questions and how do I understand my personal impact you live here it impacts you like this yeah got it well that's pretty similar to my feedback I think that can be just clarified if we're super and this is getting into the weeds and it's not 30,000 foot level but it if we're real clear on you know for kchy and Dietrich utilities going down to from 25 to 1920 um I do think we need to specify for the folks who will be affected by no parking on one side or no parking period on Elm and sunny Ridge make sure that that's something that's mentioned too based on the feedback we're I'd plan to separate this into two sculps KY and Dietrich and everything else I think there's there's enough going on with utilities and the sidewalk piece um where there's enough content and there's just a different Dynamic than the folks that are on the alleys on Elm and on uh Sunny Ridge so I think that's impacted resents I think that's fine I think even the folks on Sunny Ridge and downtown recognize that there's a lot going on with Midtown Carver I do have another question are you I'm sorry before finish um when we were talking about the sidewalks um we were talking about the three- foot Boulevard and then the five foot walk have we looked at having the sidewalk directly curb to the street as we've had in other areas of town do we have any comparison as to what that looks like because I all I think I've seen so far is the three-foot boulevard with the 5- foot walkway when you when you say what that looks like can you are you looking for um well one I don't know that it has ever been brought to us even as a consider a you mean from a visual perspective of what it would look like or cost difference or dimensional or yeah I mean what what it's going to look like dimensionally because I think we I mean we need to consider that it is impactful to the people and the residents on the street um whether I think it should be there or not if it does end up going in I think we should have looked at all the options that are possible and we have other streets in Carver that are built I mean Broadway is the same way Broadway is built up with the curb that goes right to the street um and is there a way that we can look at that as an option um removing that Boulevard and having that and then we have a little less impact on the homeowners yeah we tried to address it but we break back to the slides here so so I think let me just talk through kind of I know you're trying to BL um and I'm really glad I'm not sitting next to you so um I'm glad I'm over here so sorry you can you can you want Noe no I'm good I'm good I'm really good so but I think the intent here is to I mean we want to get Buy in from Residence at this open house right that's ultimately the goal because we want to move forward with this project right and so we don't want to get hung up on a sidewalk per se and so if we are able to show another option that may be more amenable to Residents but still have sidewalk from a connectivity perspective which is our goal with the least amount of impact on the residents right and showing them an option does that you know I think is the intention then that hopefully we could get better buy in versus this is our only sidewalk option and I don't like it it's taking up too much space I think if we're going to look at having that putting that sidewalk into an existing neighborhood I think we need to look at the best compromises we can um and so I think that having to to take a look at it that way um is is a good option okay and it it may help the residents buy into a sidewalk period right which is I think what we want from a connectivity perspective but gives them another option on a design that may be less impactful to them as a homeowner thank you okay so I hear you um and I know it's contrary to your your experience but I feel like if you have the sidewalk right next to the street that is where all of that heavy snow that gets deposited by the snow plows is going to be all the time for the width of your property so that's my concern with putting it there there's nowhere for snow removal that said if that's what the residents want understanding that it's their duty to remove the snow regardless of how heavy it is after every snowfall I'm fine with placing it there I don't know that we're at the point in the process where we give the residents the option A or option b I think that we present them with the option that we have in here and then we get feedback from folks and if the feedback is we'd rather have it scooched over then we can look at going in that direction does Erin this might be a question for you does the Boulevard in this um typical section here does that wipe out all the trees that are along that side of the road or does that keep them or Brian okay um I I think once we get into the plan a little bit more and Dan probably um talk a little bit about it too is we did look at how that lays out with some of the trees and stuff and some of them will have to go some will be able to stay but it's still kind of in that planning design stage to really determine what the impacts are going to be with trees well if we know that the street is going to be if we're looking at the whatever width it is and we overlay that on the project we we should have we should have some idea where those sidewalks are going on that overlay correct engineer next next in line there's three maple trees that would get impacted and I I don't right now I don't feel we would be saving those if we went to a six foot walk off back of curb either it's right it's right at the base of the trees so how about the five foot there's what's that well we have 5T in here are you recommending six if it goes to curb yeah it it would be hard for me to recommend five foot off the back of the sidewalk but I mean certainly you know that anything could be considered for for a a sidewalk and obviously Broadway downtown is is a wider side Sidewalk because it's our main walkway for businesses Main Street where I used to live has right up to the sidewalk goes right to the curb I don't believe it was six feet I could be wrong I have not measured it myself but yeah typically we would see eight foot off back a curb and that gives gives at least three foot for snow storage if if if it is going to be off back a curb and it's usually in a different environment than residential so that's all I can speak from as far as experiences go but and I think when we did the walk through last May the maple trees that you're referring to those potentially would be harmed or would have to go more from hookup and where the well is right now and where the hookup phase would go versus any depth of the sidewalk although it would probably be six one half a dozen of the other but and that really is I I know there were some Maples I couldn't remember if there was any other tree line past that they're only about driving through there I've been taking a look and there only seemed to be a hand less than a handful a small handful of trees that would but that's a fair in my not the engineers a handful of not your engineering but that's a fair point that we're not just disrupting to put a sidewalk in we're disrupting to put in yeah water sewer yeah yeah yeah okay well I guess for me uh Courtney I you had your opinion about coming with what we have here I would like to have the two different I would like to have the one that has the option of removal of the Boulevard and having the what is the what is the term I should be using for the sidewalk right on the curve line that would be that that's it that's the one okay okay it's okay we're not talking into modup right Mr engineer would that be considered could we bid that as an alternative well I I would say that generally the the the intent of an alternative is to capture cost differences I mean there would be a very modest cost difference I would I would say we could make that change with any amount of Direction what's most important to us is what shows up in the plan because there is expense to to modifying a plan and so um yes you could but I would say we don't even have to really for the most part we just have to decide what what's going to end up in that plan okay just have one question just so I can get this correct cons M when you say you how how do you want that you want a visual because our our intent wasn't to to not show all the options I just thought it was I'm not sure what you're looking for if you want a rendering or do you want we can provide it I just want to make sure we get it correct sure I am um there's a picture in here that you have a crosssection of the sidewalk with the boulevard cut and that's enough here yeah it's on slide 20 y I think that if we I think if we have the alternative option in this scenario as this our our picture story to tell so just a picture that would show the walk right behind the curb okay and I'm sure we'll get uh many of them that will say they don't want the sidewalk period still um again they may want to have some opinion on on which one so I think it's worth listening to and hear but understanding both sides that snow removal becomes what it becomes when the snow plow goes by and see where it goes get kind I don't agree it's not worth listening to I just someone who's been in the walkth through in the open houses it seems like the ship is passed for the option A or option b but that's my opinion do you have your direction no because Courtney and I are still going back and forth I support I support Pres in the findings as they are um you know I am not uncomfortable showing the option of the sidewalk butting up the curb um I think it's important to get buy and on the sidewalk and to be clear it's not my opinion of like don't say anything about putting the sidewalk close that's definitely something that will come out in conversation during the open house and will be something we should be prepared to happen during the next show what show what it looks like so if we're willing to talk about it now then I'm almost saying why why skip out another layer if we if we're willing to talk about it now and it's very possible people are watching my concern is with the timeline we I worry about it pushing this back further um and again we had these options earlier in this in this process this is kind of the final this will be the public hearing this is for the bids um I just don't think that we're at that point in the process yeah I'm in favor of presenting it this way for off how far we in the process and if as a visual at the open house it provides us the opportunity to give them the education on because that was new to me why would you want that three foot well snow removal um so I think it and then there's other you know positives too but it gives us the opportunity to have that conversation of why this was recommended and revisiting the timeline I mean we've held a public open house we've had a public hearing so we've already had a couple other input points right points have we had looked at the other disc has this come up in any of our discussions in the past that you can remember um because I it really came back as all or nothing so did we have other options that was that were presented to the public in this format with having different other options for the sidewalk it was here we're going to do the sidewalk it was either they were very against it or very for it and did we have something where they have had a chance to look at this compromise of having Boulevard curb or sorry curb to sidewalk I think there was a when we had the open houses there was a bunch of options discussed whether it should be behind the curbs a sidewalk at all um I I understand what you're I'm just having trouble remembering back there's been lots of discussion on this so if anyone has any remember it was mentioned at the public Hearing in December yeah the sidewalk was discussed I just want to make sure that we're hitting the expectations because I don't want this to be represented that what the city engineer and staff put together is this is what you have to do we took the information based on you know engineering practices discussion with the fire marshall Etc maintenance this is what we're recommending it doesn't mean you have to do this there are other options in the presentation of it some of it we feel is self-evident that you know if you take out the middle Boulevard that's where the sidewalk would go but we can we can add additional the you know we had we could have had 60 slides here I mean we can we can put it the way that you want it we can present it the way that you want this is your project so if you want us to show the walk out or in uh we can show we can show visuals at the open house with different Boulevard wids um ultimately my direction to to Dan and his team was um I was I'm trying to put the the top candidates you know at the top um because you could be in a position where it's let's just use a different issue about parking and what side of the street parking goes on you know we tried to follow the logic of we wanted the cars to be par parked opposite of the fire hydrants so that if there was an emergency incident that the fire trucks could pull right up and connect to the hydrant the cars are parked on the other side so we're we're trying to kind of strain some of this stuff out recognizing that there might be stuff that you don't want strain so that's kind of why we're coming back before we go out to the public if you want more uh pieces on sidewalk discussed then tell us and we'll put those in or on Street withs um but ultimately we're going to communicate this the way that you want to recognize this is a significant project with significant dollars being expended so when we had our last public meeting 98% of the comments were about sidewalks it wasn't about sewer and water wasn't about the word um the road wasn't about curbing gutter it was about sidewalks that's semantics reality of the matter is is SE water Road Kerman gutter is critical it's all going in it's natural to put a sidewalk in where it goes at semantics that could be a job site decision for that for that matter but I believe in moving forward um with the sidewalk as it's presented and we can discuss options later but in order to get plans and specs moving forward um I believe that that would be the way to roll okay well I will um ConEd then because it looks like the other four members of the council um would like this section to go forward so at that point that would be a majority recommendation are you clear do you have enough direction from us okay did I interrupt you no go ahead okay then we'll move on we'll send a draft out before we mail it I guess I guess my my quick question was who attends this open house it'll be Dan and other members of Bolton and mink okay um myself Brian okay um you want the ultimately it's the council's choice if you choose to attend i' up be on the position I think it's it' be better if the staff could just report back to you what the feedback was cuz um it it could could set up situations where you know you're getting different bits of information than other council members depending upon availability but ultimately that's your choice it's not for me to say whether you should go or not we're going to take really good notes or try to and then summarize and then invite everyone who has additional comments and questions and wants to participate to come to the meeting on the fourth we're going to be really clear on that is that the the reason for the open house is frankly to get folks you know one to answer their questions but two if they want to uh present to the Council on the 4th that they have all the information that they need to give you their best argument for or against whatever right uh uh components of the project whether that's sidewalk Street wids or just the project in general um that makes sense I mean I just I feel comfortable that we have the right people there to answer all of those detailed questions and provide all that information to the residents so okay good let's move on all right um moving on to item number eight unfinished business the organization resolution to amend 101-119 Mr Merck so the city council approved the organization resolution at your January 2nd meeting uh the council intentionally uh did not fill the Carver Business Council or what we call the Carver business Alliance as well as the second position on the township fireboard now that the full roster of the city council is in place uh we're looking for the city council to amend uh that resolution 10119 uh to fill these two vacancies and I think essentially what we're asking is are you interested in the car business Council and the township fireboard um so I'm aware of the Carver business council meeting schedule can when filming in on Township fireboard twice a year twice a year TV oh twice a year okay TBD June and November last year some or October something like that yeah it's it's right after work it's after work hour so it's not a daytime meeting or a morning meeting and it is it's literally twice a year might be a 4:30 meeting depending on what time right right but I mean it's not like it's twice a year that's well scheduled in advance that sounds completely reasonable I'm comfortable with that yes you can put my name down for both tbds you need a motion yeah we need to a motion to amend resolution 10119 with council member mcnight on the township fireboard and the Carver Business Council this the for clarification the Carver Business Council isn't twice a right that's the third Friday correct third Friday at 8 o' I was briefed great group of people I was briefed yes so I'll make a motion to uh adopt the reorganization resolution or amend the resolution 101-119 and put my name um Joy mcnight under the Township Fire board and Carver Business Council a motion from council member mcnight I'll second that and a second from council member Henry all in favor say I I I opposed motion passes all right item congratulations point two the Strategic Plan update Mr thank you mayor and Council so um wanted to go through the Strategic plan adopted by the council um about just o just over two years ago we uh have we have scheduled a strategic plan um kind of goal setting Retreat for the council at the end of February so I wanted to kind of run through uh what we went through that those two years ago uh provide an update and hopefully um providing maybe kind of a spark for discussion for our next session uh but also maybe to affirm Maybe some pieces uh that maybe aren't to be complete and get some feedback early feedback from the council and maybe items that maybe aren't so much of a a priority I know there's one that I'd like to get some feedback from the Council on um as we go forward so we kind of separated our strategic plan into three main areas one opportunities um and so thinking about Carver uh that Carver would have exceptional recreational venues that meet the needs of the community and attract visitors and also service serves and infrastructure to meet uh the current needs and promote future opportunities and investment and so the big piece and especially think about two years ago was Carver City Hall um and talking about the task force and so we have construction completion summer 2019 uh the levy certification process really took a big step this fall with hiring WSB uh they're coming in later this week for hopefully what will be a a lot of progress on a concept that we can hopefully take to the council at an upcoming work session so we're really making uh some Headway in in both of those uh areas uh the other second bucket was development uh Carver is a community that has a variety of housing choices for all stages of life and Carver has a diverse vibrant uh has a diverse Vibrant Community with a combination of unique shops established businesses and Industry um so one of the main strateg plan areas is sitting back to my left Aon Smith was hired as the city planner um the other piece that I'd like some feedback from the council is we had a a big plank of reviewing Professional Services and it was created a an Implement a process that will Foster continuous growth and development for Professional Services used by the city um and I I'd like some permission or some conversation with the council to tweak that in the I think this represents a somewhat Antiquated model for doing kind of what's akin to an annual review um we're really in a position and I think we've developed a culture where you know if there's something that we're concerned about whether it's with the city engineer the City attorney the auditor that we give kind of immediate feedback and discuss those issues I think this is premised on the model that we wait till December and then we give the city attorneys the feedback that we wanted to give them in March and and so rather than so then rather than create a this formal kind of rigid structure where we're going to have this you know five page performance evaluation um we just I like the idea of dis ongoing discussions you know uh you know I meet with Dan once a month I've met with Craig Schmidt on different issues uh I check in with our you know kind of on-site department head team and we talk about you know how are our Consultants doing I think that creates a more organic and impactful process than you know circling a number on a sheet of paper that says you're get a four for this year because of thus and so um but understanding that this was part of the piece I we haven't done anything with it I took a few shots of it I have some stuff prepared it just it didn't seem natural it kind of felt conjured and so I didn't move forward with it but I wanted to get some feedback from the the council we can still pursue it but I I wanted to share that feedback if you think that's the model that works better then I would say you're right on track go for it yeah I agree if I remember it was you kind of driving this item and it's certainly you has to implement it if that's what you're feeling and what works best it's not fixed what's broken not broken yeah I would just like to know if there's ways we can support it or being new to the council too what ways we can help impact it in a positive way yeah I think that'd be I mean I think that's that's a great comment because that's one of the things that it's not just a staff perspective I mean it's enlightening we can reach out to the council and say like you know how's Dan doing how is Larry doing you know how is ABDO doing maybe wait till after this 2019 project serson can we get one for Brian skoke there's so many jokes there I'm so uh the other two buckets with development is develop a set of goals within the comprehensive plan that can be implemented and measured and so that's promoting that life cycle housing and so that's included in our draft 2040 plan um the second area we've kind of dipped our toll in the water as it relates to developing a marketing plan and economic development strategy so we did that community Communications and marketing audit with WSB I think it was it was relevant it was affordable but I don't know if it necessarily got to the heart of what the council was discussing a couple years ago um so we spent 2,000 of that $10,000 um so I think there's an opportunity for the council to talk about that when you get into your goal session or goal setting session again and maybe drill down a little bit more on what this means and what are maybe some better action items and I think we set aside some money with the idea of like okay we should do something but we really didn't hammer down on like what that should be and what would be a good use of those funds cuz you know there's a million people you know locally or on the web that will happily take your money to like you know create a Facebook page for you do some type of branding or make you a coffee mug say I think we we want to be a little bit more surgical with this but I'm not exactly sure what that means or or what to do with that um I think we got some good nuggets from that marketing audit like thinking about us ourselves as the city of Carver I've really been trying and I know the staff has been as well like saying city of Carver and Carver County like even just look at our like Carver historic district signs on 212 and think you know we could probably easily add city of Carver historic district um cuz my my parents still get confused whether or not I work for Carver County the city oh my can they make it to the February 4th meeting and we can you don't want trust me you don't want them here no I think we do it might be fun I don't want them here um uh I think a really a big success from our strategic plan it was a small piece but I think it it really made a difference was the um formalizing the business group or the business Alliance uh that group has met in different forms for my entire time here and prior to me being here you know they'd meet for three or four months then it'd go away then an issue would pop up then they'd be again for a year and it' go away and now I think we've really developed that culture the people are coming in new business are being replaced and it doesn't necessarily need to be someone's fault when someone closes sometimes that's just the natural course of things but there's a really nice dialogue and relationship with our business community and I think as we grow that business Community there's going to be more opportunities for Partnerships and leveraging of resources so I'm really excited to see um where this ends up in the next few years and if I can add to that Brent with the same feedback that I shared with you privately today so this was this was all Brent and the conversations that have taken place around that table are so valuable and the network and the community we've built among those business owners the information that we're learning it's breaking down the wall between the city right and the business Community it's fostering communication it's fostering Goodwill um it's going strong because after meeting for a few months and somebody suggested we take the summer off Brent was like no no no that's where meetings go to die we are going to be meeting so that's that's all brand and he's done a really good job with that group so keep going Kudos thank you uh then the final area is identity uh embracing a unique history and our natural heritage and then a community built on trust with value through Partnerships and Civic engagement um this is an item that you know I want to bring back in a work session so we've talked about conducting a professional resident survey there are are several cities in the area that do that i I'd like to bring in somebody that does that work give you an overview of their process their methodology um and you know it can be a significant cost I know there's cities that try to do that informally uh but it really puts you know the data um in question and so I think there's some really good questions that we could ask related to you know Transit service related to Recreation related to how we're doing on communication that could be asked so I'm looking forward to having that conversation with the council um and a survey professional and if we decide not to move forward at least we have some information um complete the parks uh master plan so uh tailor the park master plan to emphasize the city's parks and open space amenities uh we're working our way through that U part of the thing that kind of extended that is we really wanted to get into our our Park dedication plan and what we're charging for fees and so Brian has really been doing a good job with that um it kind of lends itself into an area that I'll be giving an update on later in the meeting I'll give you a preview now that one of the things that we're changing internally is Aaron's going to be taking over the administration of the Parks Commission really trying to focus the Parks Commission on on planning um there'll be a maintenance perspective to that that public services will continue but as far as sitting the agenda and the corresponding relationships with the Parks Commission eron's going to be running that from a planning perspective really hoping to kind of drive home the planning part giving Public Services the maintenance piece but frankly one of the big pieces is there's so much stuff going on in public service is with water storm sewer streets Parks Etc just from a dayto day um we're really trying to kind of shrink Brian's place so he doesn't have to have his arms all over everything manage that makes sense um I have a question then so Erin will be taking over the parks master plan part with the Parks Commission will she be T now be the staff liaison completely to the Parks Commission corre all right I just want to make sure I hear that or heard that correctly and then how about for the HPC because Aon will you also be the the staff L on for the HC or is that Mark and she'll manage that from kind of a big picture perspective but Mark is going to kind of operate HPC from a dayto day and be the staff layers on it only if there's a significant project where someone wants to do a building tear down then Aaron would Pro Provide support it kind of lends itself into the model that we're going to be Pro um proposing for 2020 we're building inspections and planning combined into a Community Development Department so eron's going to provide kind of the overview support but Mark will be kind of the day-to-day and the meeting contact so Mark will be the one attending the meetings orrect okay thank you um this is another area that involves resources uh but we had to develop professional grade Trail resources maps and marketing materials for visitors um we had actually we had a meeting with the fish and wildlife uh folks today and talked about even just ways that we could do you know additional signage to get people to you know the Rapids Lake visitors center and the uh as street trail head uh we really have some unique natural amenities and so uh we're looking at uh developing some resources and we'll have that budgeted for our 2020 budget and so we can um kind of hammer down on some of those specifics about what you want that to look like and maybe amenities that you want to emphasize when we get into those details and then the big piece and this is it's probably good that it's one of the last ones is you know the city spent a considerable amount of time and resources developing a downtown master plan and so one of the big pieces of that was developing the end of Broadway or the Terminus of Broadway uh the city took a major step with the development of Broadway between fourth and six and developing a streetcape we really want to have a conversation with the Council of what what that first step looks like with the end of Broadway if it's a big step if it's a series of small steps um but considering kind of resources and how that area is being used now there's you know right now we have the construction trailer for City Hall we have storage for public services um and a boat and a boat yep got a lot going on and there are there are opportunities but it with a with a new council with new Commissioners it might be good for us to kind of you know bring that back out and talk about our goals and then say okay let's develop some priorities let's develop a schedule based on resources let's kind of have that conversation over again I that's so that might be one of the pieces that we talk about um in February so this was a overview meant to kind of if there was additional discussion or items you're like you know this is something I really want to kind of dig into or this is something that I'm going to be interested in uh for February or for it's just this was a good overview that we can be ready for the end of February 1 of March for our session I think it all looks really good I have a question if we're looking at the end of Broadway here for possible a reconstruction of whatever that might look like um if we are also in the process of looking at the levy and how we might certify that do we want to wait does one need to piggy back on top of the other rather than trying to do those congruently correct yeah I think that's a good question I think that's I think that's the goal is try to get that concept and see how they fit together and make sure that we don't do anything that's incompatible with something that will have to happen with the Levy right and I'm just thinking because it is our CBD area um that if we did rectify the levy issue that possibly then we could look at having a someone would build and possibly another business down where like the Pu building is now right um and then that could be something we could we could actually extend our business district so that's why I'm saying if we if we're looking at maybe the how the levy turns out first and what we can get with that that might open up even more opportunities for that end of the road yep thank you it sounds like a good agenda I don't have anything else to add at this point in time but I'm going to ruminate on it and if I come up with so any brilliant ideas I'll shoot you a not but it's good stuff I'm excited yeah think it looks good all right on to Communications so so ladies this is where we generally just kind of go around the room if you have any I have upates okay CC M my first Park and wreck meeting and I've got to learn how to say that the correct way formally Park and wreck Park board board Parks Commission Parks Commission the my first Parks Commission meeting has been postponed The Jone got scheduled so looking forward to attending that in February M mock sure um we had a 212 Transportation Alliance meeting and it looks like CER County I'm just reading from my notes here um and partially with Brent's um overview thank you for looking at my notes so cra county is working toward finding additional resources to close the funding Gap um the four-lane Expansion Project from Carver to Cologne could happen as early as 2022 okay years five years seems very early for a big project like that um Carver County and mindat are working on agreement to secure RightWay along the corridor so they do have to um acquire quite a bit of RightWay and um they know that that some will be easy and some is not going to be so of course y so they are they are going to have to work through that and then uh they're looking for so the if you go out to Cologne that kind of the r cut I guess the r turn but where you kind of you cross and you turn back um is what they're proposing for 43 and TW or excuse me and 212 43 is the one that goes to like doen golf course and there's a church right there on that corner too so um we did also have discussions in the past about having an overpass um on 212 and I'm you'll have to help me with this one Brent it's the north south and it will go over um but it's not it's there's not a street there now but right it's halfway between 11 and 43 yes thank you so that is we did here mention of that we did bring that up so that that we are trying to keep that on their radar that is something we want good okay um and then this Saturday is the Soggy Bottom Golf Tournament it is supposed to be very cold please come down to Riverside Park from 11:00 to 2 we have a heated tent we have beverages to keep you warm um and it's a good good time good and a big fire so we'll be and you don't need tickets you can just come down to have lunch and you can absolutely we serve food also so you can come down and eat if you'd like um and yeah you don't have to go online ahead of time you can certainly come down and and register SL donate that day council member Henry um I'd like to welcome joy to council thank you congratulations on your first meeting um second meeting um the Planning Commission meeting for this month is cancelled so other than that I would like to she never cancels meetings the Janu the January meeting that was supposed to be last week was cancelled mostly just giving you a hard time they heard I [Laughter] was um Brent I briefly mentioned it to you today but I would like to see if we could get bi-weekly or Council updates from Krauss Anderson as to um the progress and kind of a schedule because I'm hearing about it City Hall yeah for City Hall okay sure um we do get asked quite frequently that'd be good just like we've had you know for any of the street Improvement projects we have we've gotten really nice updates from the city sum that format would be great so other than that um got nothing question about um I know we have to a lot of slots to fill on Planning Commission and probably some of the other commissions what's the time line for that so I got a list of updates here for you so we have 13 applicants for our commissions that we're going to try to schedule for your February 4th work session okay um we have 12 applicants for the uh building inspector job that we um we're seeking applications for that Mark and Erin are reviewing when does that close or I mean sorry it Clos when do are you expecting to hire um I don't know Erin can you speak to the hiring schedule sure so Mark and I reviewed applications today we're anticipating first round of interviews Friday and Monday of this coming week the position is anticipated to start March 1st okay thank you great uh couple other things speaking of City Hall so I've invited K Sanderson and wall to present at your regular meeting on February 4th so they'll be doing a slide presentation um and be able to answer questions introduce themselves to the council again um what I can do is I get a we have a weekly construction meeting on on Thursday mornings on the project and they provide a look ahead so it's basically a schedule so I'll just forward that onto the council that' probably meet our and it breaks it down by task you know cool so uh on the February 4th meeting also be bringing a draft set of legislative priorities uh the council's regularly at least for the past probably 3 or four years adopted legislative priorities um some of them have related to you know funding for the certified Levy um promoting uh our local Representatives support of or opposing bills that preempt city council Authority so if they want reverse referendums on certain items Etc um I alluded to an issue earlier the the um we met with the US fish and wildlife today uh there there's part of their the Ash Street Bridge you know that bridge as you enter into the Fish and Wildlife Area part of that bridge is on city property and they'd like that to be all on Fish and Wildlife property so we're discussing with them because there's a I know it's about a maybe a 4 acre um parcel that we own and contemplating we're discussing trading them that parcel for a easement that would allow along the length of our Levy system along property that they own so that we can maintain and construct improvements along our Levy where the goal is frankly to get that so that if we are in a position to certify it we don't have to go to them and ask them to provide us an easement because we'll have to have documented uh land authority to do improvements on that Levy system we can do it right now through prescriptive rates but if we're going to actually do a construction project we'll need some type of documentation um allowing us access and the ability to perform those improvements on their property so we're we're still figuring out the details they want us to provide some additional information but that's what we're attempting to do is there reason for acquiring that property to do improvements upon it well if we do a certified Levy or do know not our piece why the US fish and wildlife wants that city-owned piece with the bridge they so that's behind what I'd say on the river side of the ly I understand so are they acquiring it because they want to do improvements upon it no so the bridge was done I'm not sure what year but it's a fairly new bridge they don't want a a federally owned Bridge that's not they don't want to own the bridge on property they don't own oh cuz they own the bridge oh okay got it I didn't know that okay thank you uh one of the things we're also trying to to coordinate um and thanks to to Brian he's and Mark they've done a lot of work with this is the the Carver black Soxs were awarded there is it the regional the regional baseball tournament which is scheduled for the first weekend in August so there's quite a bit of coordination and so this might eventually come back to you the the one thing that's going to be a little bit of a challenge is there are some requirements that the black socks need to fulfill for whatever the baseball association is that awarded them that may or may not require structures Al in the in community Parks so extension of um uh bleachers or you know media areas and the the the problem with that is as some of you know there's a big Excel Energy easement through there and at one point I don't know five or six years ago XL Energy actually was telling us that that we needed to take that back stop down so we had to threaten like you really want us to tell the local Town ball team to take their back stop down that's not going to happen but I it's one thing to argue to keep infrastructure in place it's another thing to like construct you know things that are going to be infringing on that so we need to come up with a plan understand what the black socks need um can it be temporary pardon I don't know the scope of what they need but is it things that they can we can have temporarily that they could rent and bring in maybe and it doesn't have to be I I don't know what the scope is so we're going to find out what that scope is um and what the standards are um we're we're really going to try to support them understanding kind of the nature of their organization and for selfish purposes not wanting to be you know here on July 15th trying to figure out how we're going to make this all work cuz there's you know if they're with the amount of people that they have how we're going to navigate parking um different licenses they may need the construction pieces I mean they're they're talking about some I've heard kind of superficially some wanting to add some you know Bullpen facilities and so what you know who's paying for what and so we really want to draw up a work plan who's going to do what what the obstacles are how what the resources are that we can provide and so once we can gather that and if we run into roadblocks we might come back to you and say how would you like us to to deal with this understanding this is a significant um piece for Carver um and a a significant opportunity for the black socks as an organization to flourish so Brent I'd like to add a comment since we're planning so far ahead um my comment is I think this would be a good time to open a discussion on bearing some of those cables or the the power lines oh those power lines mhm and maybe I'm way off Community but we I know that we have talked about it in the past so this is so for future conversation I just since we're already planning this far ahead great time to have that discussion if it's even a possibility yeah I don't know the answer to that I'm sure it is I just don't know very expensive the last time we looked into it very but go ahead and look at it yep we'll do it and and uh that's all I have right I would I did just want to say one thing about the black Soxs um they are coming to the Lions meeting tomorrow night because I know they are working on their volunteer and Staffing plan right now so they are actively um soliciting people who to help out at that so because they want to be really well staffed and well I guess volunteer staffed so I I know that they are putting a lot of thought into it ahead of time also so that's that's good if they volunteer opportunities it would be good like the city wants to yeah it would be great to promote that let I'll let them know just have one other item since our work session got cut short if there's any city council requests we usually handle that in the work session but open that up at the regular meeting if there's items that you want staff to look into or items brought back to a future agenda Etc um please let us know I have nothing this point all right um Aon any updates Brian Dan Vicki my only updates um last we Southwest Transit board Regional Council of Mayors board and then I alluded to the business council meeting um I'm sorry interrupt you you're fine um learning a lot especially with Southwest Transit um and it's all good so with that oh do you have the the letter oh yes thank you sorry Sor um oh the other thing that I nearly forgot um to mention is that this week we got um a letter from the Minnesota employment and economic development um commission letting us know that we um have received the innovative business development public infrastructure program grant for Lake View Industries so nice it's official but what does that mean I'm sorry I need background um that is for the road work on what will be water opportunity Commerce Commerce oh the one that goes north south yes to the east of the Lake View Property yes so okay it's because that wasn't part of lake lake view wasn't going to be building that was the city Commerce Drive is going to be funded through tax increment financing okay from Lake View and then 50% from the grant which is 97,000 oh wow awesome yeah it's almost a million doll so cool and uh kudos to Aaron Smith who wrote the grant for that project thank you so she paid her way this year absolutely can't wait for next year all right with that I would like to make a motion to adjourn all right motion by council member mock seconded by council member Henry all in favor say I iOS motion passes thank you all