we're good thank you chair Welch uh Deputy clerk good here I'll be taking role tonight so a little change in plans I have a uh for roll call commissioner gell commissioner Monroe commissioner weens commissioner Ginger commissioner sheer commissioner sheer I believe you're on mute okay I see commit okay and chair Welch and commissioner weend as well is just Commissioner Goodell commissioner Monroe commissioner rigs oh excuse me commissioner weend commissioner Ginger chair Welch Commissioner Goodell commissioner Monroe commissioner weend commissioner Ginger chair Welch uh unfortunately then the U people that are watching on granicus would not be able to hear so I will try my best not to stir or make any noise I will go ahead and turn my camera off first of all thank you all for joining us tonight it's really great comment is welcome to join us everyone is welcome to share we'll go beyond just clarifying questions talk a little bit about the public hearing you can ask questions to staff or the developer so for the public hearing uh Brenda who you saw she is the host of the meeting so if you'd like to speak I would send your name and your address to her in a chat just so we can keep it uh semi-organized I know Zoom is a little bit of a challenge but we're going to try our best so during that time the Planning Commission will receive comments they don't participate in dialogue at that time so don't anticipate that you're going to ask the Planning Commission a question and get an answer necessarily we'll don't anticipate around the table staff and the developer will follow up after the public hearing if there are clarifying questions that should be addressed again commity are welcome and we would appreciate you addressing the commission with your thoughts so what happens next what happens after this meeting during this meeting the Planning Commission tonight gives a recommendation to the city council so at this point the Planning Commission is not the decision maker that's the city council and the time between today the 17th and March 7th which is the game plan for city council there might be some changes in the plans based on the feedback that we get tonight so between now and the 7th the develop brand staff work through comments and options that we hear at this meeting to uh figure out what we can change if we need to to hit D city council meeting on March 7th so let's get started let's talk about site and project details so project location we are directly south of The Meadows at Spring Creek development south of Spring Creek Drive we're west of the Spring Creek neighborhood so many spring creeks in this little area or directly north of ha Ridge which is the DR Horton project and then we're east of Mount Hope Road so some of those larger executive a lots that you find on Mount Hope Road as you travel into downtown so thinking about zoning the property right now is undeveloped so the default zoning is always egg that's not a surprise that's what it usually goes to North the property is guided for low density single family R2 PRD South it's it varies just with the location so most of it is hawor Ridge which is R2 and single family west of this project is Spring Creek which is R2 PRD and then uh East again is varies just with different large egg Lots so thinking through the site plan so there's a lot of detail on this I'm going to talk through it several times so if you feel like there's a detail that I miss hang on I might talk about it in a later slide but on the side plan right now you see the 24 single family lots that are proposed in the brook development there are a couple things I want to call that now you may be asking what this strange little T is that's Pond access maintenance for a public services team so this is a black top strip that allows for public services to get into the pond here and then I'm going to talk a little bit about this traill connection a little bit later in the presentation so we see right now two cacs it's an extension of malberry Lane running north south and then Brookview court is the East West Street a colored rendering is on the screen now so this came a little bit after the packet went out so I wanted to share this with this group so you'll see on the screen that colored rendering and some Landscaping on the site as well again as those 24 lots that we'll be talking about tonight so let's talk a little bit about process how did we get here what happens who's looked at it what do we think so far so I'm going to review is our uh development review team at the city as part of the planning process so that group is planning admin engineering Public Services Fire Chief and Fire Marshal the City attorney and the legal team and the Watershed District so at a staff level the things we are tasked with as a group is entering compliance um with the zoning code engineering and public services design standards the fire code Minnesota State Statute our comprehensive plan additional policies that we've adopted so this group looks at these PL several times and going talk through it on the next slide but largely when I talk about our review team it's all of these people as part of our team uh and either staff or consultant level for the city so the planning process let's talk about how we got here so first obviously a developer comes in with a concept a concept can be a really rough sketch we typically don't require any engineering so a project can come in uh and we can talk about it so a developer can ask that we sit down and think about their project so first staff does a review and we provide a comment letter back so we say yes we think this will work because of XYZ or no this doesn't work because of XYZ or maybe figure out these 10 things and we might be able to get there so we've been through the concept phase with this project that happened in October the Planning Commission level so the developer came in staff reviewed their project we gave them a comment letter we had a a Planning Commission and a city council review of the counil plan so now we're at the preliminary plat stage so if you think about the time from October to February you might be thinking oh maybe they we're just really slow workers but the truth behind that is that we go back and forth usually three to four times on a version of a project so the developer comes in with a version of the project City staff is able to create a comment letter ask them to fix everything that we need them to to be able to hit City standards and we go back and forth in that process three to four times so prior to the Planning Commission seeing it staff has worked pretty hard to get it to a point where we believe that it does mean the specifications that we need it to based on things like the zoning code standard detail plates from the engineering department uh feedback from the fire chief a legal review by the City attorney so at that point we noticed the public hearing which I suspect most of the people on this call got the notice that's why you're joining tonight which we appreciate and tonight we're at the public hearing phase so again we take public comment what happens after this meeting city council does the same review if the developer chooses to move forward with final plat we again do that same review where staff goes back and forth a few times to determine if the project needs our specifications and work through questions of the developer that we have so what's the role of the Planning Commission what are the things that we specifically look at as a group so chapter 42 of the city code defines our process so it lays out the cetch plat or the concept plan preliminary plat final and and things like Park dedication and improvements are included in this chapter once we get through that process we jump to chapter 50 which is the zoning code and that sets bul regulations so things like setbacks um size of lots um what people can and cannot do on their property and then we also review the comprehensive plan so I'll talk about that a little bit in a couple slides too what that matters and means to this property so some development details at this point this is the preliminary plat again and it's proposed by manly develop manly development so Manley is not a home builder so once thus site is through the planning process so through preliminary plat and through final plat it's anticipated that Manley will sell to a builder the Builder is not known at this time a good example of this that we saw recently was the temple Creek project so if you think about summergate they were the developer and they sold to lar so we saw Casey from summergate at these meetings several times and then now for construction lar is completed work engineering was completed by satech and again the project detail is 24 single family lots and something I'm pretty excited about and we'll talk about later is the trail connection to Broadway so we'll talk through that collectively so I talk a lot about the comprehensive plan what does it mean what does it do and I'm going to pretend that I have a really interested audience in some of this so we can do a little bit of Education sorry if it's a little bit dry so the comprehensive plan has worked on every 10 years and it sets our guidance right now until 2040 so we take a look at every single property both in the city of Carver as well as in our growth area and we decide what we think the development will be so that ranges from things like low density single family to a heavy commercial utair so the map on the left right now shows several different colors the circle in the middle is obviously the project we're talking about tonight work View the really light yellow it's a little bit tricky to see in the legend but it's low density residential so we believe that this property will develop low density residential so what that means for density which I'm going to talk about again hold on tonight for our low density residential district we need to hit three to five units per acre so to meet our comprehensive plan the minimum is three for this property things that are excluded from calculation are things like Bluffs which are important on this property right of way so streets and water bodies of there's ponds rivers streams any of that gets added out the map on the right shows the constraints map or areas of the city of Carver that we know cannot develop for one reason or another obviously this property has Bluffs so everything in yellow is determined to be a bluff so the buildable area get a little bit smaller for this property so what else does this mean what does the compant tell us what do we know about this property we know based off the constraints map that the site does have developable land it will develop for single family housing and the owner has property rights to develop so the density for this project is at 3.8 units per acre I'm G to ask that if anyone at home is trying to do really fast math that you slow down a little bit because there is some Nuance to the calculation that you might be doing so if you think 24 Lots sounds like let's go down to 14 remember that removal of lots increases that buildable area so if you take out a lot that space is still buildable and we need to include it in the calculation so if you take it down by 10 the buildable area increases density May no longer hit that three to five units per acre which is required so talking through the lots a little bit so on the far left is a breakdown of the 24 Lots you block and lot information the center column is square feet for each lot and then the far right is eidge so you'll see that the Lots vary at minimum at 5,750 sare F feet and the largest is about 14,000 sare feet so there is a range something to think about is that the minimum that they're asking for is 5,500 but the lot average that they're looking at is 7,900 so it ranges between those two numbers pretty um it's it's a big range but the average again is at 7,900 for reference straight R2 zoning is 7,000 so the average lot size here does meet and exceeds the requirement of R2 zoning the setbacks are another thing that we'll need to talk about tonight so for R2 it's a 25 foot front yard setback checks the Box rear yard setback is 20 checks that box side yard is where they're asking for a little bit of a change so instead of the adopted for side yard they're asking for a reduction down to five and the corner is 10t so it just gives you some more space on each corner lot so let's talk through that rezoning request what does it mean um how do we do it what's some of the technicalities behind it so the request tonight is a rezoning request from agriculture which again is our default zoning not a surprise that this property is eg since it has not developed and their request is to r2pd so the stars on the screen right now show every neighborhood that has that same zoning so R2 PRD is our uh the most used zoning definitely for our residential district I'd say most people on this call unless you live in one of the new Dr Harden projects probably lives in a house that is z R2 so not an uncommon request something that we see pretty regularly as a group something that has worked really well for the city of Carver for various reasons I'm going to check through what a PRP me and why we use it on the next slide but just want to give feel that most of the city is that R2 PRD zoning so what is a PRD why do we use it when do we use it I could read through this but that would be terribly boring so I'm going to highlight only the portion in Red so uh PRD is the benefit resulting from the planned residential district including an opportunity to protect and preserve valuable natural resources so I'm going to talk a lot about the Bless but something to keep in mind is that a PRD works for Pres a and it helps preserve areas that we know are important in valuable in the city of so this project how does it compare to other projects in the city so we have several similar throughout the community so right now on the screen I highlighted a couple projects that have asked for that lot reduction so minimum lot size for Meadows at Spring Creek which is the property just north is 6,000 not terribly different from the request of 5,500 that Brookview is looking for Tre is another example along Jonathan Harbor Parkway their minimum or sorry their minimum lot size is 6,400 s fet again not a huge departure and then River Bluff Estates on cter of 40 uh actually has a reduction down to 3,800 square feet so these Brook lots are in line with several other communities in the city of Carver Clos closely aligned with Meadows at Spring Creek which is a property just north of the Brookview property so plan again just so you can get a refresher of what we're talking about shows the 24 Lots access for pond maintenance and then the trail down to Broadway and then the preliminary plat so I know the Planning Commission does a lot of work with a preliminary plat we're familiar with this document but what this means for you uh those of you who might be new of the process this is the document that gets recorded it lays out the neighborhood so this is where this is essentially the document that creates the neighborhood legally so at this point lot lines are created streets are created Outlets are created so this is the formal plan review that we're looking at tonight as part of approval so site access of streets let's keep moving so there's been some questions about site access and how it would be possible to have so many Lots on a property without thinking about the safety so like I said when I mentioned our review team that includes the fire chief and the Fire Marshall and they review all developments sure their largest apparatus is able to get in and out of a site easily so what that means is that a culdesac usually needs to be 92 feet across which is something that I didn't think I would ever know that I do in this profession or an oak tree it looks a little bit different though there's a media a fire truck in ground review has also been completed by our engineering department and I would note that several call the saacks in the city of haror have more homes than Brookview does so we've approved several cus Acts or other project would one access it's not out of the norm it has been looked at by the fire chief the Fire Marshall the city engineer checks our boxes it is safe we are able to get the apparatuses that they would need to In and Out of the site and there's been a couple comments about brv court being private which is strange and a little bit different happens a couple times in the community there's one in oak tree River Bluff Estates Walnut just to name a couple so Brookview Court it could function as a public Street what that would would require is that the street would be six feet wider so it would take six additional feet of right of way which would reduce Outlet C which is being used for landscaping so if we said tonight Brookview Court we don't want it to be private we want it to be public it fits there there's just not an opportunity for As Much landscaping and buffering for the properties of greenage Drive which has been a discussion that you probably saw in the public comment so the reduction down to that private Street actually allows for a greater buffer and more landscaping and screening that's one of the benefits of a PRD is that there's some flexibility in what we can do with the again the cus act that's proposed is a minimum of 92 feet for the largest fire apparatus that we would need to get into another question that we've been talking a lot about is Bluff protection we know that Jim is probably our resident Bluff expert but we can talk through it give any clarifying information if need be so how does this work with plat approval what does it mean in our city code so what we typically do for Bluff development is we put the bluff area in a conservation asement and the area to be protected includes two 25 foot set act so there's a tier one buffer and a tier two buffer so as part of a grading plan the developer needs to determine where a bluff is and shows where those two buffers are to make sure that no construction happens within that area Brookview is not requesting a variance from the city's buff ordinance it does meet the ordinance it meets the intent were're able to construct the homes without impacting the bluff so to make that a little bit easier to see I Know It's Tricky on the plans you can close one eye and get really close but it's still sometimes hard to figure out so the green on the screen that's a bad rhyme the green outlines where the bluff actually is and then those backs are in blue and yellow you'll see that the um yellow line gets it gets pretty close to some of the houses I'll be the first one to say that to you but there are opportunities that we have and options that we've used successfully in other projects so when you look at the property like black four which is this one here you're wondering how the heck does that work that block fits that house so I want to talk through what that means on the site plan and the plat so the square that on there is the buildable area that does not mean that the house will go there it means that that is the space they have to construct any type of improvements so if someone wanted a house and a deck the house obviously would need to sit a little bit forward the deck cannot encroach into that line so that is the buildable space that they have anecdotally I will say most surveys that I look at the house does not touch that back up back line because people want backyards they want to have some space back there the opportunity to have a deck so that's Square that's on the site plan in the preliminary plot does not equal house location it just shows where a house or some type of improvement could go so on the screen is another on the right is the right sorry the right shows that where the building pad there's the line where a house might sit with that additional space that you could allow for things like a shed a deck a patio that someone might want to construct in that area so how do we manage the BL how do we know that people informed and they're not out they digging in the yard and spes that they're not supposed to be the first thing we try to do is we try to work with the developer on home buyer education I know that's tricky because home buyers are often trying to make a sale and they can say things that maybe aren't true but we do try in Earnest to work with home builders to say hey please do not sell this house that they could have a 40 foot deck off the back of their house because that bluff is right there and you cannot prevent that we also Mark the bluff of signage so before you buy your house be with sign and we require topography on all surveys submitted with a building permit or zoning permit application so when a new house comes in that information is on every survey um I personally check them to make sure that the house is where we think it's going to be the grading generally works and we also if we know that there's a bluff on the property it's called out so I can tell you yes that house works it's not touching the tier two BL setback or no we need to revise that we cannot touch that area so that's great on paper it's great in the office but how does it work in practice so our building uh Building Inspections team goes out and does the first inspection on a side when a house is being constructed is a side inspection what that means is that Stakes are in the ground showing where the house is going to be they measure it to make sure it matches what's on the survey so it's another catch to make sure that the foundation is in the correct between the site inspection and final inspection there's about 20 inspections that are that our team goes out takes a look at the property they know to look for some of these things U probably my least favorite way that we manage it is that we hear about it so it typically just takes us saying no to one property owner that they came to XYZ that they become that neighborhood Bluff expert and they get really fired up when someone is doing something and you get a couple calls a year saying my neighbor is working on this deck how how is that happening when I could do it because of the bluff so we hear about it really do and then we spend a lot of time in the field our Public Services team is out there often doing inspections for things like utility work Outlaw maintenance and Tra maintenance so it's not typical that work can happen in a bluff just based on some of these catchalls that we have so if there's someone in Brookview that is passionate I just what go here from them pretty quickly if someone suddenly constructs a without us knowing about it and there are other projects in Carver that have Bluffs I know that some of you live in them so H and ridge is a great example of Dr Horton so looking at the site I've outlined the BL colors you'll see that the setback here gets really close to those houses but it worked for ha Ridge just because they can meet the requirement of the bluff impact other neighborhoods to think of the Bluffs which is pretty obvious in the name Carver Creek riverv viiew Estates and River Bluff Estates I think one of the best parts about Carver is its topography in some of the areas so protection of the Bluffs is something that we uh strive for in our city code and something that we hold de and something that's important I know there's been some Battle Scars over left discussion so it's something that we know is important to the community we protect it when we can talk a little bit about Park dedication and Trails um this is usually one of the more fun things to talk about so less Technical and something that I think people usually get pretty excited about so I keep talking about um Park dedication and trails as just an education piece every time a new project is in the city of Harbor Park dedication is required so how are we working on our new iron park that's going to start construction in Spring is the park dedication fund so it is a pot of money that can only be used for new parks which is really exciting can't be used for um boring but important things like maintenance so we're able to be creative think about new parks the community needs something else is that we uh require $470 per unit for every single residential project so when your house came in if it came in in about the past two years your developer or Builder paid that $4,000 to us for construction Parks only on the screen outlined in red is that trail that I keep talking about the one I'm pretty excited about and if you look at it you're probably asking yourself it's going to be a wild ride if it's that straight so this spring we're thinking we'll get out there we'll do a field fit for a trail so we'll go out as a team find a way that it works best with topography with minimal tree removal just so we can preserve this site so it won't be straight down because I think that would be a wild ride maybe a good sleding but probably not good for hiking something else to note this um Trail will not be paved it will likely be pretty rustic so thinking through hawor Ridge the trails that we constructed there likely wood chip I probably wouldn't recommend ever bringing uh stroller or roller blades but a really good connection to get into sneak Trail in our larger system so here's a map of our uh Trail Loops that we have now so the area of Meadows and Brookview kind of a dead area there's not a ton Trail connection you can come Mount down Mount H road but in general it will connect in this area here so let's talk a little bit about tree preservation I know that's been a question and I'm going to be the first person to admit my staff report did a really bad job at explaining this so I'm going to try to redeem myself a little bit and hopefully get uh everyone to an understanding of what the tree preservation plan is so this is what I didn't explain well the removal of trees that we talk about it about 50% is only in that red area so they were were required to only survey the trees in the buildable area so the bluff will not be touched it is just this area where tree um impact does occur so the red area is the only space what does that mean for our city code what are our rules section 50220 which is in the zoning ordinance calls retrieve protection so 40% of can be removed for a project nope that's the opposite 40% needs to be saved 60% can be removed sorry and you'll see on the left that Brook viw is proposing to remove 50% of those trees I know that sounds like a high number it can feel pretty scary but it means the intent of Mer city code I'll also say that uh any tree removal can feel like too much uh why would we do this why would we get rid of such a great resource and It's Tricky there needs to be uh definitely a give and take of tree protection and tree removal so as part of the plating process the developer is required to complete a tree survey so I know a couple people saw the survey was out there what that means is that they go out on site and they find every tree that is eight Ines or greater and they tag it they take the information of the type of tree the size of tree the condition of the tree and then they apply to their plans to say which trees are going to be removed which trees are going to stay so I could go um on site find a tree with a tag come back to the office go to that tree Pres I can tell you the type of tree the size of the tree and its condition based off those two things together so in that tree survey 981 trees were included so they were tagged in that red area so they were over eight in and 57 were marked for removal so it's not an Apples to Apples calculation since we do it in inches but just anecdotally 6% of the trees in that that area are going to be removed I did a really bad job explaining that in my staff report I'm very sorry if I made some people py I know tree removal it's brutal it's one of my least favorite parts of the development process but it is allowed it does allow for construction it does allow for development okay landscaping and buffering so the site um obviously will require some Landscaping we have a requirement in our city code that each new lot gets one new tree this property is going above and beyond that requirement so each lot is getting two trees so you'll see throughout the site each lot is showing two instead of just the one required and then you uh you might notice in the Landscaping plan that there's a little bit of a gap here it doesn't mean that trees aren't going to go there just that they're existing trees that they're using for the buffer so they will continue the entire route and it does loop around the entire culde saac so there are trees here this does a much better job uh showing that so you'll see trees running throughout out LW SE just for buffering is about 25t which will allow for to be successful allow them to mature allow them to be LGE in this area so 25 ft of a tree line buffer here so wrapping up a little bit thank you for your patience and your attention I hope everyone has taken away one tid bit of information but I just want to talk through what happens um after the developer enters this process and they have full approval so the city uh has what we call a developers agreement which is a legal process that is signed by both the city and the developer so it's a document that we work with the city attorney on we all review at the development review team again so planning engineering Public Services fire we make sure that what we need is included in that document that document is accorded recorded against the property so it stays with the property does not leave if if the developer leaves because we need the things uh that they said they were going to do to happen usually and it ties an adopted plan set to the work that they will be doing so the grading plan suddenly needs to be completed no matter what happens with the developer or the Builder something else that should give you some peace with this process is that we hold a letter of credit so we the city engineer takes a look at the project and we determine how much the entire project cost so things like Landscaping how much would every single tree count cost utilities how much is uh sewer water streets all of that is considered and we get to a total of 100% of what the project cost would be and then the city tax on an additional 25% on top of that so the city holds 125% of total project costs in a letter of credit it often exceeds several millions of dollars just based on the project size and we hold that until the project is completed so what that means is that a developer could walk away a builder could walk away for XY and Z but at that point the city is continues to hold that money and we can use that money if we need to complete the utilities so if a developer comes in starts Street says hey I'm not doing this anymore we hold their money we use it to construct the streets so at no point will a development start and then just stop we obviously wouldn't be a home builder so homes would be constructed but utilities would be completed so streets would be completed it generally would start to look like a neighborhood where someone could come in as a builder I know that can feel scary when you um think back to 2008 that a lot of homes were started with utilities sticking under the ground and then they sat s but having this letter of credit and the developers AG allows us to step in and do that work if necessary so a good catch um just in case anything happens it typically stays with the city for a couple of years once the project is fully completed the city goes through a walkthrough process so we go through our plans we walk this the site several times make sure everything looks like it should have on paper and then we enter a warranty period so the city has warranty for two years on a project usually and what that means is that like a standard warranty so if something breaks the developer has to come back and fix it so if a tree dies that's something that happens pretty often if the tree isn't planted at the right time we call it out the developer has to come back and re that tree so between the developers agreement which lasts for the duration of project which can be anywhere one to three years we hold that letter of credit and then we hold enter that warranty period so we do have time to let things settle make sure they continue to work throughout the process okay I'm G to give that the check for my staff presentation I'm GNA ask Kurt and Steve if you want to introduce yourself and give any information about the project over next sorry yes we can hear you every system to could barely hear you it is really hard to hear what you bar does that work better there you go still a little okay is that better yeah I think we go fix the ringing yes oh now I can't hear you guys oh all right I'm kind of from the technologically challenged era so computers just really AR my forte so I I apologize for uh I apologize for that but but anyway as I as I said a lot of people don't really know who I am so I would just encourage people to um just go to the last um project that my staff that my my team that approved it was a MCAT Landing project in the city of Cottage Grove and as I said the senior planner there Mike moros and you're you're more than welcome to call him Mike morosa in the city of kage he specifically mentioned at at the uh council meeting that he had never worked with a developer or their team that was as willing to work with the adjacent um neighbors as what we were so I I just want to make sure that everybody knows that we have really um we don't want to get stuck in a develop mindset so we always encourage um input from the neighbor it always refines our process it makes our plan better and and I just like having any any development that we do where we invol where we involve the neighbors it just makes it a a smoother transition and I know sometimes change is hard to embrace but I've had projects where people didn't want to see change and then they ended up building in the new development because they they liked it better or their kids had more kids to play with or I had one couple this been several years ago they met and they end up getting married one was in the adjacent neighborhood and they just met on a walk and end up getting married so you know change is not always bad and I know it's you know sometimes it's it's difficult to take but as a developer I want to make this transition as smooth as possible and I want to hear your input so um plan Smith I'm not sure what the best way is for me to get numbers or email addresses from the adjacent neighbors but I would like to have a meeting with them either one-onone or maybe we just needed a coffee shop of the Listen and talk through the um if you can just tell me what the best way is to do that we would love to have that um other than that uhor Smith did such a thorough job I really have nothing more to add but I'm more than willing to answer questions I have my engineer working late here tonight and uh Mr Steve trosy and uh he's he's willing to answer any questions that you might have we're we're super excited about the project we don't have a builder yet but we in Builders and we will have a very high quality Builder that will be in there uh will be very selective with the product that thank you C thanks for that info I think that I sorry Reed I'll put your information on the city's um Brookview project site so I'll put your name and phone number and email address so check on that and if you want to reach out to Kurt that will be the best way to do it I think okay Aron um so what what kind of questions were you thinking uh we do before the public heing just some general overview or um from the commission members just clarifying questions I'm not going to ask you right now to talk through a huge project specifics but if you had a question about slide six what did you mean by that this is a time that I just want to get through those clarifying questions okay I I I did think of one so what is the difference public and private Street I mean I know but other other people might not is that sure I could take that but I'm gonna give that to Aaron Schmidt sure Aon do will you introduce yourself before you start to Y good evening commission my name is Aaron Schmid I am the assistant city engineer I work with staff on reviewing all developments that happen in the city of Harbor um and see those through all the way through the construction and um acceptance of the Improvement stage so full circle from start to finish I'm I'm working with Aaron public services and the rest of Staff see the developments through so um to your questions specifically um public and private streets so um the city of Carver has a standard public Street of 32 ft wide that accommodates parking on both sides of the roads and it's built to the city of Carver's um standards for pavement thicknesses um and the underlying roadway materials so um a lot of times private streets come in when there's a specific reason where they cannot meet those requirements but we review those on a Case by case basis and if it makes sense um we will allow the street to go private that's kind of eron do you want to supplement that at all so just based on a or a site a street being private or public that doesn't me mean that it doesn't meet the requirements of the fire code just means that it doesn't meet our typical City standards so in Brook View's case they're asking for a reduction to be able to give that buffer for landscaping so the street is flipped private since they can't reach that 32 feet and have a buffer that that also means and residents are responsible for plowing yeah and they are responsible for street right they are correct that would be the the homeowners res right not necessarily the individual residence on that street or is it the entire or TVD so we would anticipate a Home Owners Association that was my main clarifying question did any other commission members have any questions before we open the public hearing I had one question um looking at the pictures it doesn't really show any parking spots and if it's a private Street and parking is on one side of the street is there any of those little Pullin spots anywhere not on the street again for the buffer so we could add those but take into that so we are hopeful that people would use driveways but also since there's a limited number of streets on that called toac find parking on the one side okay this is Jim my question is is out lot a who's going to be responsible for out lot a yes I suspect fall to this City for erosion but also that trail I mean that's a that's kind of a key area for the city we call it Broadway have Broadway in but it's really a trail and it's one of the nicest spots in the city as far as view around it slopes trees and everything agreed I would like we would plan to model this um similarly to ha Ridge where we hold the large outlot in or the large space in outlot to make sure that it's maintained in a way uh that meets their requirements so erosion is minimal but also allows a step that trail system both found Broadway as well as the connection Arin can I ask a question absolutely um so I am kind of con um concerned about the erosion if there is a chance that that area gets if if still other all right um just a reminder if anyone would like to make a public comment please send a chat to the host Brenda follow application ech thank you chair Welch first up is Jenna hunt from 1891 Green Ash Drive you said um and looking at your density requirements you could actually get the way I it that if we could take homes out of there that would be helpful I uh the wood rail uh like it's on a 45 degree slope just want to say no thanks to that not interested in that at all um how is that gonna be just doesn't make any sense to wash away I think go 45 uming the letter of credit held is 100% of the letter of credit held at all times or once por final we course is it paid uh so if we can get clarification on that sounds like we're gonna get Kurt's pH number for questions Kurt offered phone number and then also Mike Monro for the city of Cottage Grove would like to have that as well um buffer that you guys talked about in the no cases um how do we that people aren't parking in the MS of like to know that how that'll be in so those are just a notes that I took on what I've heard so far okay so um thank you for your time tonight um I did think that we were going to be able to have dialogue um I guess I'll just ask my questions and wait for the response I think it would be interesting to know when we will get the responses to the questions I don't know if you can clarify that quick if you want to wait I'm done okay I'll keep going um so since Mr Manley's here with us tonight I wanted to start by asking questions um I hadn't heard of his Ventures until recently so I'd like to understand a rough number of developments that he's completed in the past um also interested in his intent for this development it sounds like that question's already been answered um it sounds like he will not be the home builder and that it'll be the lot still for that approval I think I got the answer that already uh as a tax providing citizen of Carver I want to ask can we understand the Financial Risk and implications that could impact my family should there be a default on this project public record shows that a development that Mr manle had in Scott County went into for culture in December of 2020 the development on information available to the public and online was very similar in size and scope to the development that's currently being proposed was here in Carver there was a public notice shiff s due to Consulting on the loan my question is what was the result of the sheriff sale notification that forclosure does this mean there are no current leads or judgments in your name Mr Manley if there are can you elaborate on the tit the amounts okay so now I addressing the commission other questions here from developer but um my family and I dis not just because of the poor reputation the developer that we just heard we didn't speak that out but uh but also based on the facts with an ordinances that govern our beautiful Community the land the wildlife and Carver residence I'll share that this evening before I get in the fact into the facts the ordinances and statutes I'd like to that I'm aall and candidly discusted that a letter of recommendation for approval has prematurely been made for this project prior to required public meeting rent uh in a Facebook po this week on the Carver life February 15 in a response to uh someone Nam Mr steton that the city supports everyone's right to oppose or support land use application Shar that your number one goal is to lead a clear process and accurate information with those interested in the project I have two thoughts here I wonder how a letter of recommendation for approval had been made before the required public meeting has been further is my understanding that the independent land own land owner after doing research connected to this parcel wasn't notified of the meeting and only found out through a social media post a few days ago this is highly concerning to me and not even land owner nor do I know that the letter that we did in the mail my husband and I stated that because no feedback had been received the Planning Commission recommends approving the plan I am almost rendered spechless I think you may have put the cart please don't count on newspaper for notifying people of important things like this in the future that it's ridiculously Antiquated and terribly disrespectable this is not the definition of a clear process is seemingly railroading something from the system without adequate considerations from not only members of the city but also allowing your public to have input prior to finalizing your recommendations I hate to say this but it feels as though this is being done through the city's own financial gain in your Park fund don't get me wrong I love a good Park irresponsible zoning adoption of variances that create negative impact uh need to be carefully reconsidered in the interest of the community members that have participated in tonight's meeting I'm imagining I have a lot of feedback here I'm guessing you'll have a lot more um so with that being said I ask that you react your recommendation for approval and uh go through with uh reviewing everybody's comments okay so I was going through as VI over speaking to make sure that I had my so um I received an email yesterday from you Erin sharing that the people who own this land haveed uh in property rights City cannot change based offence simply because this is the first opportunity that has come through for the current land owner to sell doesn't mean that the city should or is required to make concessions that are not in the best interest of the people in the land arriving at this conclusion without public input is Unthinkable assuming our research's only preference is jumping to conclusions what if someone here finds that your team didn't maybe we will and maybe we will but it's prematurely refusing to recognize the undeniable truth that the public has the right to indeed weigh in on this prop I fully support the curent Landers rights and desire to sell this property but please allow us our rights as well both Aaron and Brenton stated writing that the planets inance with all requirement however that is only because variances and adoptions have been made to do so I truly believe everyone here tonight is smart and clearly knows that this is developable developable land and I think everybody fully understands that the current property owner also has rightsell many of us most likely have seen the stub Street to this area and have anticipated it I'll speak on my on behalf of my family saying that we are okay with and encourag grows and development so long as the plan makes sense and is done in the best interest of zoning requirements the natural habitat the physical and financial rights of current homeowners that are directly impacted I honestly don't think anyone here is saying never build that there General consensus I've witnessed is that this concept doesn't make sense from many different angles here's the issue there are several adoptions and variances that are being approved to cram 24 homes back into that area which is really tough to wrap my brain around as I believe many others who are seeing this beautiful wooded habitat next to a BL being turned into an urbanik zoned development this isn't Downtown Minneapolis this isn't even downtown Harbor again people knew there was a possibility of the development in the area but any reasonable person however didn't expect the current proposal and layout to be approved Brent and Aaron have both made appeals to the tradition as it relates to this proposal there's an ancient fallacy that a standpoint or a situation right proper or correct especially because has always been that way or we've done it before uh it's a very dangerous way to conduct business but before we go comparing this to The Meadows at spring or any other development in car Harbor for that matter let's set aside uh let's set those aside and focus solely on the landing question uh am I still being heard I'm not hearing an echo anymore no I can still hear you okay uh thank you uh really nice I to that up uh okay so uh before we go on comparing this to The Meadows at Spring Creek am I still being recorded I just want to make sure that this is recorded too can you hear me the host I'm trying to get the volume those and focus solely on the land in question based on my research and discuss discussions with other development experts the land that The Meadows was built on was and is a different topography than the land that this Pro that this proposal would occupy there is no evidence that justifying any of the VAR variances or adoptions uh because they have been granted to other developments in developments in the past is the right thing to do in this case or even of great benefit why is the commission recommending approval of variances and rezoning that would destroy a wooded habitat that protects a bluff to cram villa homes that are already having a heck of a time being sold uh with a street running right behind already existing homes wiping out their semi-private Lots it's beyond me more to come on this in a few minutes my husband and I selected Carver as our new home and moved here in late 2019 from just north of the Cities having a small community just far enough uh from the cities to escape the hustle and bustle of the Metropolitan Life was the most important single most important thing to us as we uh search for the perfect location to build our new home uh I want to I want to dig into some facts and ask some questions before I do that I want to ask uh and and whether or not you can respond right now but I want to ask that the commission commits to redacting the recommendation for approving this until you take into consideration all the thoughts and questions concerning questions and con concerns from tonight's meeting um so I'm going to go into some questions here does the commission have the authority to say no to any deviation variants exceptions requests or anything of the like to standards that govern our City's development processes I think they do I think the commission has the power to say no to lot sizes that are smaller than the standard but please correct me if I'm wrong you have the power to say no to rezoning requests correct is uh I was Al I was also wondering if Carver County Land Management is represent in this meeting tonight but I'll continue uh in the published land use document uh declaration there's a section that quote outlines goals and policies that will guide the location type and intensity of development for Carver it highlights the diverse Landscapes natural resources and preservation allowing people to disconnect from the stresses and pressures of living in the metropolitan area this totally contradicts what's going on here escape the Metropolitan lifestyle I'm afraid like I've said before this zoning is more similar to a metropolitan development similar to downtown Minneapolis am I mistaken if I'm how is this different I'd like to know please answer that question uh this the land use declaration also shares that future Redevelopment won't drastically change the landscape of the city there shouldn't be any arguing that this proposal is a drastic change to the landscape that protects the beautiful Bluff that wild wildlife calls home if there is uh arguing that that's kind of disturbing as well I'd really like to know how we're defining drastic as it was stated in that land use declaration all right let's talk about the lot sizes my math shows that at least 38% of the lots have been approved for a variance uh smaller than the city standard I've always understood a variance to be an exception 38% in my world and I think a lot of others is far more than an exception so I'd like for the city to uh please clarify what percentage of the Lots would require a variance and as I did some calculations it looks like uh the averages that are shown they're skewed uh in these plans based on larger lots that throw it off uh when uh when I'm calculating averages I usually remove the outliers so uh I'd like to know if that was done when You' when when you were calculating the average size of these Lots because it doesn't look like it uh in my research um so my my next question is if we can create a variance for smaller l sizes why can't we why can't we create a variance for larger ones um next I'd also like uh you guys to go back and double check all of your calculations for the square footage of the Lots uh I did find one that I don't think to be correct I didn't go through many I didn't have much more time I've spent a lot of time on this this past week so uh I'd like for the city to go back and calculate the square footage for each lot and ensure that it's correct next I'd like to reference uh section 50-12 structures in the city ordinances uh based on that ordinance uh the information in this ordinance uh and the drawings that you guys provided the developer and future homeowners will not be able to install or build any sort of structures patios hot tubs storage buildings Etc uh in the tier 2 Bluff areas uh so if you could answer that question based on Section 50-12 structures and the uh governing information there please let us know um next I'd like to refer uh you to two of there so there's three Lot number fours uh there's two of them that I think uh if you look at the drawings you'll be able to see but it appears that they're located directly on the tier 2 setback line it doesn't take a rocket scientist or even a land architect to see that the yards are clearly cut off in order to make this Bluff ordinance are these houses going to be non conforming to the rest of the houses with the corners C off if so can the developer this is a question for the developer that I'd like to have answered uh can you explain exactly how you intend on construct constructing some of these units as I can almost guarantee you that should this proposal go through as is there will be several people watching every single move that is made and if that bluff is Disturbed disturbed by the slightest inch that could be a really big risk for the city this is really playing far too close for comfort uh next I'd like to know you answer who should someone report findings to on non-compliance during this project if they are discovered next I'd like to refer to section 50- 1994 uh in the city ordinances this is regarding removal or alteration of vegetation removal removal or alteration of ve vegetation pardon me within a bluff area is prohibited with the exception of listed species uh this this uh section states that no Tree in diameter of six inches or greater uh can be removed without prior written approval so that's a six inches in this uh document um with this I'd also like you to please reference section 50-15 regarding Topo uh topographic topographic alterations grading and filling uh as I read this it says that no Earth may be moved it may not be filled excavated or or nor may fill or excavated material be placed in the bluff area drainage from property within a bluff or a bluff setback area uh may also not be redirected without approval from the city engineer uh I guess it would be reasonable I I think to assume that more than 10 yards of dirt would be moved during this project uh questions here this one's for the developer uh I'd like to know if you could share with us how you plan to perform the excavation of the units while not disturbing the vegetation as outlined uh in the standard that I just referenced I'd also like to know has anybody checked with concrete contractors as to how they anticipate even setting forms for the foundation for these homes and then back filling these um my next question has anyone seen the extra space needed on a lot during actual construction uh based on the verbage in these ordinances few more questions I always want to assume that the city acts in good faith and in in accordance with the law how will the signs noted on the drafts be installed without disturbance of any vegetation the ordinance specifically states that no tree greater than six inches in diameter will be removed if that tree is removed and it's greater than six six in in diameter that would fall into to an enforcement issue this drawing indicates that there is tree that there is tree removal within the tier 2 Bluff area the ordinance specifically states that no tree greater than six Ines will be removed uh how is this going to be enforced uh with the impra impractically close proximities uh this is a question for the developer how can the developer guarantee that no Earth will be moved filled or excavated from the bluff area the two tier buffer and the tier 2 setback area that's noted uh in the ordinance again who should somebody report these findings to if during the course of the project they're discovered we will be watching I see a storm water retention pond in the plan in the event of overflow this would create massive erosion of the Bluff at what capacity here's some questions for you please note at what capacity is this storm Pond designed for where is the water from the private Street going to be drained to is Overflow accommodated for in the plan and if so at what capacity will it be coming into the direction of The Meadows development if yes how will current residents in The Meadows be protected from saturation runoff or Pro or potential flooding can you please share with us the details of the landscape plan that includes plans for erosion control and where we can find that for future reference uh next I'd like to refer you to city ordinance is section 50 196 enforcement uh this verbiage in summary states that any violation of this section should halt construction uh uh let's see um it also states that it is deemed hazardous to the sensitive Bluff area area of the city and to secure compliance the city May proceed under uh the Minnesota hazardous building act and that each viol is a separate misdemeanor uh and that it could that it could impact property taxes and I interpret that as my property taxes I trust that due diligence has been done above and beyond accepting a letter of credit to ensure the citizens and taxpayers of Carver are protected you might find that some people's reputation may not be what it looks like on paper with the well-known public neglect and background of the developer in his past track record for complete disregard of the millions of dollars in judgments uh that are pending I need assurance that my financial future is not in jeopardy our property taxes aren't cheap and I would hate to see them increase because something goes into default based on the patterns that I have found in public record uh uh with this certain individual I feel that this is a major risk how will the city ensure the residents that once enforcement is needed cost will be recovered so as to not become a burden to the taxpaying citizens of the city has anyone on the Planning Commission networked or reached out to other cities in the Metro that the developer has recently developed in and if so what were their remarks in summary these are really difficult conversations the best things in life rarely come easy we are fortunate to have you guys representing our community uh the only conceivable reason however that my husband and I can muster up is that this is being done for the financial gain of the city and that is really disheartening to us that is not why we move to Carver I'm re I am re ating my ask that this proposal be denied immediately and that the members of the commission work in collaboration with Land Management to advocate for the best interest of this community please do your due diligence make sure you're working with uh reputable con contractors I hope you can see that we're doing our due diligence hours upon hours have been spent analyzing this plan since notice was received in the mail we'll continue doing this you'll likely be receiving testimony from people who have directly suffered at the hands of this developer we believe and trust in the City Planning Commission to redact the current letter of recommendation for for approval take these questions comments and dire concerns for the negative impact the current concept has on the land and the residents of the city of Carver into close and careful consideration before recommending your approval to the city and my last note is this and if anybody's fallen asleep I know I've done a lot of talking I want everybody to pay attention really close attention here after the first meeting that brought forth the news of this possibility to the residents I emailed several questions to Aaron one of those questions was regarding the cart path in the trail system Erin's written response back to me and I quote I don't think this is some uh let me I'm going to go back my my my question was could we turn that cart path into a trail system that would Connect into the other existing Trails just for clarification her response was I don't think this is something we would pursue with sidewalk available along Green Ash one house away I think this would be redundant here's where I really want you to pay attention we also try not to add trails in people's backyards when homes are established many people would not be super happy to have their semi-private backyard turned into a trail Corridor you're absolutely 1,00% correct I don't even this this doesn't even impact me uh the the the street it's not going to be behind my house but I can tell you that uh I care about my neighbors I care about my community and many people aren't happy in fact many people are really sad they're shocked I'm shocked uh we're not feeling hurt here the real life unhappy people you have mentioned in your response could have streets laid into their semi-private backyard creating disturbances that include but are not limited to noise traffic bright lights and safy concerns with only a set a 25t setback proposed please I ask you to take a tape measure take it go behind your house uh demonstrate what this looks like from the back of your own home and think about how that feels this plan does not at all leave a current homeowner with a semi-private backyard uh with that's the same uh I would be willing to bet that these current residents sure as hell would rather have a trail Corridor in their backyard instead of a street in all actuality however the vantage point that they have when they purchase their home is going to be destroyed irresponsibly uh and that that's going to have severe consequences on our wonderful neighborhood so uh my last ask is that you please do the right thing and I look forward to your responses thank you thank you Jenna uh Brenda who's next next is Matt null 1903 Green Ash Drive all right go ahead Matt can you hear me yes we can awesome well thank you planning commission for your time I appreciate you guys allowing me to voice my concerns I guess I'll kind of start off by saying I'm I'm pretty sad and Aaron you and I have had some fairly good conversations feel like we've been pretty upfront and for you to say that you don't feel like people would appreciate a sidewalk in in the back of their semi private backyard but it's okay to put this street I don't understand how that's okay I'm very very saddened by that as I've read through this proposal I have not heard how this development is going to benefit the city other than the park fund or other than a potential wood chip path on an extreme steep sloped Bluff that's is going to connect some residents to downtown that I mentioned a unmaintained wood chip path there are several accommodations that are needing to be made for this proposal I understand that it is the goal of the city of Carver to grow but this development on this plot of land does not align with the city ex City's expectations that they have put forth in many of their Publications regardless if it can be made to work on paper the city of Carver hardly has any wooded Lots left in the mayor's message in January of 2021 she was excited to announce that we were a green step City she explained that a green step city is a program to help cities achieve sustainability and quality of life goals through the best practices and res resource sharing in my opinion clearing this lot of its trees is going to Cle sorry clearing this lot of trees ruing ruining water quality destroying wildlife habitat is not best practice especially for a 24 Home Development one question I have um just a little bit confused with the tree lots the way um Erin you described it is you classified as tree as anything over 8 in um could you at a later time we can kind of talk about that but to me there's a lot more trees out there that can be classified as trees that are under 8 in US residents moved to the city of Carver to escape the Metro we wanted to be able to still have wooded Lots we still wanted the wildlife to venture into our yards and we want and we don't want to have the feeling of being so crammed in this development is taking away from our escape from the Metro the city is the one who created that slogan for us escape the metro in their land use declaration this development is not going to allow us to continue to escape the Metro I understand the city is growing and needs to develop land growth is inevitable in every city like Carver we get that what we don't get is why is the city trying to sacrifice such beautiful important lot for this style of development why is the city proposing to develop unwooded Lots versus the alternative of other land that does not have so many implications it has been mentioned that one of the positives of this development is it's going to connect the Meadows of Spring Creek residents as well as others to downtown through a trail uh this has been proposed you know to be that unmaintained wood chip Trail what is what is the purpose of that trail if I can't bring my kids down at an a stroller or on roller blades or on their bikes I don't understand how that's any type of benefit after talking with the home consultant SL realer for Mi homes medals at Spring Creek development I'm questioning why the city is wanting to bring in more villa style homes he advised me that they are having trouble selling villa homes while the single family homes are being sold extremely quickly I'm unsure the accuracy of that but has the city looked into the rate of villa homes being sold that would be a question I'd like answered please I'm not proficient in Reading plat Maps however when looking at the proposed width of the streets I'm deeply concerned malberry Lane is proposed at the 32 ft as the Brookville is proposed at 26 ft I'm fairly familiar with the size of emergency vehicles and I understand that the Fire Marshall and fire chief have reviewed this if there is a fire in one of those homes the fire department is going to have more difficult time navigating their vehicles on the street versus a normal width street again yes by measurement they will fit on this small Road when you add in darkness other emergency lights potential cars parked on that one side of the street and user error you're not leaving any mark in for air what if there's an incident that requires an ambulance to leave before the fir truck is that ambulance going to be able to exit that neighborhood if there is a fire Tru police cars and cars parked on that one side what if one of those homes starts on fire it will be minutes before the next one catches on fire has there been any thought into any type of extra fire protection needed for these homes when you have a house fire you have multiple agencies coming to help how is this neighborhood going to manage those multiple large firet trucks on a street of that size I understand the fire department reviewed this proposal and on paper it may seem feasible for emergency scenes but in real life this type of development will have implications on emergency scenes this proposal is showing that there will be a small buffer of trees and then a Street behind the backyards in some cases a buffer appearing to be no wider than 10 feet of green ass drive residence if you drive throughout the city and look at the developments the norm is for their be two backyards butting up to each other why is this development altering from the norm and placing the street there I'd like that answered please with a street in that location it means there will be Street lamps does that mean that the green ass drive residents will now have a street light shining in their back windows and lighting up their backyards that's another thing I would like answered please if that light and sound has been ever thought of for that street I'm fairly confident that all of the residents that are living on Green Ash are and were aware of the probability of this land being developed what they were not aware of is the city putting a street in their backyard versus having another backyard the city of Carver was growing at an exponential rate prior to the pandemic now the pandemic is entering the endemic we will see that growth ramp up again the city's going to be extremely busy with numerous projects taking on this development comes with a significant risk it has been told to us that this developer has been upfront about his lengthy list of legal issues regardless of being upfront about their past developers character and past needs need to be vetted if a developer's character and past does not meet the standards the city has for its own employees and allow the city to be confident in their ability to complete the project it needs to be heavily weighed in on the approval process we were told that if a developer is not able to complete the project the city would quote unquote take over the project is that a benefit or detriment to the city if it was a benefit why would the city just do the project themselves doesn't the city have a lot higher priorities during our exponential growth and to try and complete a development do the taxpayers want the city to be handling the completion of this project versus their numerous other tasks residents of Carver should be made aware of the risks the city's taken by even entertaining the idea of working with this individual to me this development proposal has a lot of implications in numerous different aspects I believe most city of Carver residents would agree that the city should and does try and do the right thing this develop is not the right thing it is not the right thing for the land it is not the right thing for the city and it's definitely not the right thing for the residents this development has a lot of needs why would the city want to accommodate all of these needs to make this work again what might look good on paper does not always look good in real life the city needs to continue to support all of its residents its infrastructure and its use of the land and not allow this development to proceed as it currently sits thank you Matt uh Brenda uh who's next Brian and Chris Johnson 1897 Green Ash Drive go ahead Brian or Brian or Chris uh you're muted if you're talking was it Byron or Brian Brenda hey sorry about that our mute button disapp no no worries go ahead go ahead we can hear you now the screen changed and I had to find the button um go ahead first of all I'm pretty impressed with my neighbors um they've done an awesome job um pointing out some very important um things that I think make a big difference um the one thing that hasn't been addressed yet is our property so we are on lot five and if you pull up um your map that shows the landscape on it if that's possible is that possible to show the map with the landscape and the color the color one right plot do you want this one Chris yes please okay so anyway um the neighbors that have talked so far did an awesome job um speaking for us however when you get down to lot five where Brian and I reside you'll notice that we do not have 25 feet of a barrier at all we we really have no barrier um and I just want to reiterate what my neighbors have already said just because you can does not mean you should so what I've been hearing throughout this whole meeting is variance variance variance variance and really no protection to the Bluffs to the wildlife and to our personal um property and privacy um so I would like to see if you know first of all I'm hoping that what Jenna said happens um they all have great points that this should be scratched and started over um additionally I agree um when you look at a developer or somebody that you're planning on hiring you have to look at the history of that person and history tends to repeat the themselves and the the developer came on today and talked about um being a neighbor and listening to us and that's all fine and good but I haven't seen any of that in the history so I think that the developer might have um luck with convincing people with what he says and receiving a lot of variances but it appears to me that all of these changes and variances end up in a lot of lawsuits and judge judgments against the person so the main thing um is for us to if this did end up going through we need a buffer we have just been completely intruded upon I'm sorry um and we had sent a map in with some recommendations um with property lines you guys have property number one intruding and INF infringing right across our backyard which is a completely uncomfortable and is not going to um promote very good neighborly camaraderie so there's several trust sorry destu L trees I can't understand but anyway I've sent our map in with review and um from what the other neighbors had said with the variances um and the small Lots infringing upon the bluff clearly lot floor lot four there's no room I mean and just eliminating lot four or lot three would make room for a cuac if the whole thing isn't just thrown out and started over so I would just request that you review especially the infringement on upon our property with the cuad where there's really no buffer do you have anything else that's all we have thank you yep thank you uh Brenda who's next I received a message from an Alysa is there an Alissa that's interested in speaking y I'm here are you able to hear me yes I am can you give me your address please y I'm at 1909 Green Ash Drive so I'm on the corner lot so thank you everyone for your time this evening really appreciate you listening to us and our concerns I have two primary questions so the first one it was mentioned that Kurt with being the develop ER he is in the process of interviewing Builders so my question would be once a builder is on board would this plan potentially change again or is this the current state that the Builder would take and run with um so want to get clarification on if the Builder that comes into play if they have power to change it h another question would be since we are on the corner on with Mulberry Lane bordering our lot I anticipate people will be parking on our side of the street since there's going to be limited parking on the private drive we also have a fire hydrant in our yard or on our yard so wondering if there is exploration of adding no parking signs on malberry Lane bordering the 1909 house uh because we know people are going to do overflow and try to park there so want to know what protection will be in place there and the question about the street lights that Matt brought up is something that we were curious about as well uh where those would be placed when you're looking at these Maps or what side of the street um that could just cause some disruption as well those are my questions thank you thank you very much uh I guess maybe um if anyone's new to the call if you're on the public and would like to comment please send a chat to the host which is Brenda um chat her your name and your address all right uh do we have someone else Brenda I received a message from a Patty is there a Patty that is interested in speaking hi that's me all right go ahead Patty okay thank you um yeah thanks for letting us all weigh in um I live in Bloomington and I'd like to introduce myself to the neighborhood because my parents have owned a property there um in the city of Carver for for like 62 years and they've been waiting to build a house on it so this is very exciting for us we are the Property Owners right down on the bottom here that Patty I'll I'll point it out on the map if that's okay with you sure it's this property here I appreciate your commitment to it though yeah whatever Hing to help out it's just way down here south of the culdesac of um whatever this yeah um malberry Lane okay so um like I said we're excited to build a couple houses down there um I made this artwork of the um area showing um our property here which is about one acre of flat land and then about two acres of Bluff and Our intention is to keep the bluff land all natural and we've got about 50 mature trees that we're going to keep all of them and we're going to keep the existing elevation so it's going to be very natural um everything seems to be pretty good to me I have a few minor concerns about wondering if the wood chip Trail would hold up because it is on a slope and and of course we really should stay off the Bluffs because when you walk up and down them it can erode so therefore I'm thinking if you could build a cement stairway it would be um people could kind of get up the hill without damaging any of the soil and none of the Rocks would um gradually fall down towards um you know Broadway um I do have one other concern and that is um the elevation of the culdesac I was just looking at the grading plat and I noticed that they're going to elevate this culdesac um by about 7 feet tall at its tallest so if you so awkward if you where did my okay so if you look at my artwork oh well forget it anyways the culdesac is going to be about s feet taller than than um than the the existing grade and the bad thing we're just hoping that it doesn't cause any water to um cool on our property you know because right now um our Bluff land is um 9900 38 ft high and it's the highest elevation on the whole area but once they build up the road malberry Lane then it's we're worried that it we want to make sure it doesn't create any type of you know like um burm or Dam that blocks the natural flow of water away from the bluff and North the way it used to go so we are in in talks and it sounds as though we'll probably be able to get a soil put in to divert the rainwater away from the bluff and make sure it doesn't pull on our land or it doesn't erode the bluff area so I think that that pretty well covers it um we're excited to be your new neighbors and um look forward to that coffee that we are going to have with Kurt and the gangang all right thank you um thank you Patty uh Brenda who's next next I have Charles St 1935 Green Ash Drive can hear yes we can Charles please go ahead so my my one thought slash question on this whole thing is is that between Meadows and this um project we put hundreds of thousands of dollars towards um the park fund but there's no Park in our in either neighborhood I realized when I moved in my 12-year-old said Dad this is a neighborhood kids go to die in because there's nothing for a 12-year-old to do um the closest thing to do anything is quick trip and and I don't want my kids hanging out at Quick Trip all day long because that's a cross county road and it's a very busy County Road I I was wondering if there' be any way to put like something like two swings and a slide or something behind one and two on malberry where there's a little bit of flat land or something just I mean if we're going to put hundreds of thousands of dollars towards the fund we should at least get something back and I love the fact that you guys want to connect all the trails but there is literally nothing in any of these neighborhoods to do if you're under 12 thank you thanks Charles all right uh Brenda uh do we have another person who'd like to speak yes next we have Zay D 1899 Green Ash Drive all right Zane uh go ahead and say something so we make sure we hear you something all right there you go Z all right hey everybody um nice job on bringing down the echo on the zoom I really appreciate it but um I have two main questions uh one is uh it was mentioned earlier that any subsequent damage from the bluff due to erosion what have you is going to be the property owner's responsibility at the end of the day and my question is how is this going to be communicated in advance to a potential buyer because if it were me I wouldn't buy a property that's a few good rainstorms away from being heavily damaged and therefore my problem so I'm concerned for those property owners in advance and my other comment is the density of the homes seems to be a little heavy-handed um and my question is what's the average lot size if you take the three outliers like the 14 12 and 10,000 square foot Lots if those are removed what's the average lot size um I kind of get the impression that there's a minimum number of units that's required to be able to turn a profit for a developer uh and I realized that the supply chain issues due to the pandemic has really made this a lot worse but um I don't think this size and shape and layout of land is really am minable to a minimum in the mid 20s um I'm kind of agreeing with everybody else that it might be best to put a pin in this project until either material prices come down enough that a smaller number of units is enough to make a profit because I get it people don't build homes for fun but um it seems like this is a very inopportune time in terms of building material costs and that is driving uh very high density on an area that is not really well suited for that level of housing that's all I had all right thank you Zane uh Brenda do we have someone else next bill Wagner 1917 Birch all right bill go ahead hey guys can you hear me okay we can great so my wife and I Karen live on bir Street um you know basically what we are experiencing today is pretty much all of the construction traffic drives right by our house um and you know we were really looking forward to this summer for everything to be pretty much done and wrapping up but you know something like this going in now we got another year two years of all the construction traffic going down the road and I already know I can already see the seams in the road where it's you know starting to wear and you know you bring down all those cement drugs again so so you know I I just don't like that stuff because right now we can't even have the windows open because of all the dirt and dust but you know I I guess for my comment just cuz I grew up in a family with a lot of construction and doing a lot of family projects um in the Scott County area and stuff I am so surprised that this that basically you guys are even entertaining this for how many variances I keep hearing about in the short time that I've been on and you guys have the ability to same way if I came in to say I want to build a liquor store in Carver or if I wanted to go and build a pizza place in Carver you would come in with the same thing to squash it in five seconds flat whereas with this project with all the stuff that I'm hearing I'm just so so surprised why it just isn't squashed like why are you even entertaining it so so that's kind of one of the questions that that I have but I walk the streets all the time and I love going down on the paths and everything else like that and I I walk probably eight miles a day I I just love to do it and I really want to say that I really do appreciate Patty your property down there because I do go buy it all all the time and I occasionally see coyotes there and everything and I think it's just fantastic but the problem I got is that when you are walking during the winter time you pretty much have to walk the street because the sidewalks aren't exactly all that well taken care of um with regards to the paths and everything so earlier when I heard the comment that hey what's going to happen is that this area is much narrower this street and right now if you look at how the city ends up plowing Green Ash Drive you already lost about six feet on both sides so the comment about the fire truck coming down to go and take care of a fire during wintertime when the street really isn't all that well plowed I think that actually holds a lot of water and we see that today right I mean it's a very narrow path down bir street because of the fact that it's not plowed to the corners right it's not plowed to the sidewalk so this little Narrow Path that's going to go in this new development is going to be much smaller right I mean that's just the reality of it right okay so the other comment was hey there's going to be this path and it's going to have wood chips on it hey you know what's going to happen as soon as that first Monsoon spring rain comes or the heat of the summer triggers a July storm and it dumps 2 Ines three inches of water 4 Ines and you know that's just going to all come break down and I don't think that that path you're not going to be able to use it during the winter time so I don't know what good that is to me there's no advantage to that whatsoever so so I mean that's that's in and of itself but then the other comment I had and and the last Ru comment was um the variances themselves and I guess it really does go back to some fundamental Basics and that is that why why are you entertaining this particular Builder who just doesn't have any good track record it reminds me of the early days of the cingle Hut development that took place in chasa where there was only one entrance for the entire development on the county road and subsequently the whole place got build up and there's still only one entrance so that should never have happened and I'm not saying that this is one entrance in here compare in comparison but the reality is is that if you allow these type of variances to happen and take place you're going to do it elsewhere and you're going to set a precedence and that is something I don't think you guys want to do so thanks that's my two cents all right thank you uh Brenda do we have someone else next is Sean Royer 1919 Green Ash Drive Sean all right there you go Sean go ahead you hear me all right yeah I appreciate all the neighbors that did a lot more homework than I did tonight um and I just want to say Patty I appreciate the uh the artist drawings those are those are fantastic as I'm looking at um some of these Maps I just have one question that I'd like answered I'm at 1919 and that looks like the the sewage the storm sewage will be connecting right into our backyard and I'm just wondering how that will happen without you know having to tear up the entire backyard so like that addressed and then the the other concern that I do have is the erosion control for the backyards of the Bluffs so I'd like to just enter that into the record and that's all that I have thank you thank you Sean uh Brenda who's next next is Jim denardio 1905 Green Ash Drive can you hear me yes we can Jim go ahead um I do have a couple of questions that I've asked and uh I'd like to just ask them now for the public record um one is the PRD ordinance requires a 15% open space common open space as part of it its requirement in the ordinance and I don't see that here and I'd like to have that addressed um I do have a question regarding whether or not the product is going to be single story slab on grade uh or is it going to have basements um I have a couple of comments about uh questions about the HOA or or the city going to do the maintenance on things like the storm waterer Pond and the private drive and what the city if the if the HOA is going to be responsible for the maintenance of the private drive itself uh road maintenance uh what assurances do you have that that road isn't going to get busted up uh and repaired by the low bid uh that the HOA is going to go to uh and the same would be true with the storm water Pond that storm water Pond its location is right for erosion of the bluff um and then my my my my comment Echoes my neighbors and that is that it seems that uh the city is doing everything in its power uh to uh cram this development into this into this into this parcel and then wonder whether that's the best use for this parcel and applying the PRD is meant to give the city the flexibility to preserve certain things and it seems that uh the city is getting a substandard trail access wood chip Trail is not a trail access by any means other than it's there um especially if it's not going to be maintained by um you know to any kind of standard and we're giving away an awful lot to this Dev velop er uh in the form of very very small Lots um there's nothing that says he can't meet seven and a half foot setbacks he just has to build a smaller home uh he could he could meet a 10- foot setback and build a really small home obviously that's not what he's going to try and do he's going to try and build the largest home possible uh corner to corner edge to edge um and I just I just uh think that there are better uses of this parcel than to cram this many homes uh I the last comment I'll make is is um is to clarify because I have some experience that when you talk tree removal you're talking about significant tree removal which is the 8 inch calber diameter at chest height or larger and that in this case there's a lot and lot of trees that are going to be removed that are that are below that significant definition and um that's a that's what I have to say thanks all right um thank you uh Brenda who's next next is Brad Kerber 1900 Green Ash Drive hi good evening everyone uh thank you for listening to us and let me chime in here I I think first and foremost I you know the comments I want to make is looking at this plot map you know my perception of it is and I think everyone can agree with me this particular development is you know it's being built at for the benefit of the new development you know at the cost of being detrimental to the existing homes and you know I would like to challenge you the city and the developer to you know come up with an alternative plan that would you know better benefit both sides um you know and I like to see what that would look like I you know my fear is you know maybe I'm being a selfish but the the home values in the area you know basic I reached out to a realtor friend of mine and you know he said having a neighboring yard in the back of your house isn't as big of a deal as have being basically Locked In by two roadways so you know kind of read any I first said I'd like to see you know a variance to that you know so it doesn't impact the values of the existing homes as much um because I see they're going to have beautiful views in the new homes but um they're going to be taking away from from the people that have already you know committed to Carver and have have planted their you know feet in the ground um I'd also like to know a little bit more about what these homes are going to look like I know Jim mentioned this a little bit but what's the pricing going to look like are these going to be slab homes twostory homes um what's the quality of these builds uh another thing too is the HOA fees I'd like to know a little bit more about that um simply being when you have a neighborhood that has an HOA that's maintaining more than just their yards their driveways but they're also maintaining a private Street um you know the payoff of having an increased HOA is you potentially could decrease the value of the home itself being that these homes are you know closely connected to us in our neighborhood that will have a detrimental impact now not only on the side you know facing the potential rview court but you know along with any other home that is on Green Ash as well um you know just reiterating too about the street size um you know 25 ft seems like a lot um others have mentioned this as well but our plows don't do a wonderful job um you get a heavy snow you're going to lose three feet on each side you allow parking to have a vehicle on one side you're now down to a state where it's going to be detrimental if an emergency vehicle does get in so I think that's something to be important mindful of as well um being in an ho8 it's it's apparent that the snow control is not up to the same standards as the city as well so that should be taken into account as well another thing too I I do respect that there is a little bit of a concern with the developer and his past from a legal perspective um you know working in the commercial lending industry I I do understand letter of credits and I would like to understand who's going to be funding this is it secured by cash what is you know and what is the you know what would that look like in the event where the city would have to um call upon that letter of credit to be used to fund the rest of the project um you know I I I it sounds good you know from a conversation perspective but that's a very long drawn out process um for that to be to be handled and I think that's a concern that all of us have but I think that's really about it I just I hope the city will you know find an alternative that works for everyone um it is our homes it's where we live um and it's important to us thank you um yes thank you Brad um Brenda do we have someone else next I have Ken hitzman from 1055 Broadway all right Ken go ahead yes we can hear you Ken perfect I can't do the zoom call because I'm the southeast property and I don't have much for internet down here so I'm joining by phone so again I'm the southeast uh block on your plot map there okay um understand that this development was bound to happen at some point so I prepared myself for that and once I noticed uh how these houses were laid out I was instantly taken back by the proximity to the bluff in the area that that uh is our natural habitat uh bought this property uh to preserve the land uh to make sure that Wildlife uh had a place to flourish around me um pay an absorbent amount of taxes in order to have that luxury um and my first question is uh house plots one and two which property lines cross the uh boundaries of the easement the first thing I would want to do uh to protect my view would be to put up a privacy fence because I don't want a swing set where I used to walk the fields and look at the deer and listen to the coyotes and I'm assuming I would not be able to do that because the property line is Into The Bluff easement second question um in respect to uh the bluff protection is where is the rainwater going to go all of the rainwater currently on the east side of this development flows through a waterway that goes directly behind behind my home uh 90 ft down in elevation and through the years I've had to protect that Waterway from a roading my property through torrential rains and the like uh and I'm prepared to foot that bill uh as it as it's currently laid out and I forked over many thousands of dollars in order to protect that the first thing that's going to happen with sites 1 through eight or 1 through n is all of the uh fertilizer that's planted on everybody's residential yard it's going to flow directly into a natural spring which is just down that embankment which all the deer and coyotes and and pheasants and turkey go to drink all winter long now it's going to be contam contaminated with all the rainwater drain off from these perfectly pristine yards and when this rainoff duplicates because we have house lines and gutters that are pointed directly into my property what happens when my backyard washes out where will the city be at that point to help me maintain my property down below uh that's all I have thank you thanks Ken um Brenda who's next next the last person on our list is Michael lanetti at 1895 Green Ash Drive if anyone else would like to speak please send a chat hear me okay uh yes now we can okay thank you um thank you Planning Commission and it was really nice hearing from the some of the other owners that we haven't met on the the other side of the bluff and I I don't want to repeat too many of the I'll just say that um you know I agree of course with the people on the Green Ash and the big one being to summarize you you know I always knew that the the private property would be sold and developed at some point that is certainly the right of the owner uh the street right along the backyards though that was that was a shock I wasn't imagining that that there'd be a street back there um certainly some properties but not a street the other thing another person brought up and I wanted to Second it and I and I we we thought about this when we moved in and at various points and it kind of passed out of memory but we have young children a lot of people have young children on our street in our neighborhood and Spring Creek very familyfriendly kid-friendly neighborhoods but there are no Parks um like the other caller or resident mentioned and that's that's something we we've wondered too is we've you know somebody did the math on how many park dedications there are but in the Northeast quadrant of Carver I can't think of a single Park the closest one that I would take my kids is maybe the lion Park or over by Carver Elementary um which is quite a bit of a a hike right so yeah for the folks that live in Spring Creek Meadows and some of the other surrounding where have all those Park dedication funds gone maybe this is a prime opportunity to think about uh a park there uh a natural one um that could be used in conjunction with the development and reduce the density and impact on the Bluffs just some thoughts for the I don't know how much the commission has to influence that but I I will say that it does it does something weigh on us that we' spent all this money on Park dedications and we're not sure where those parks are and there are a lot of children and a lot of coming children there's a lot of expecting mothers on our street and area too so I'm sure that'll be a a big one but anyways yes thank you for everybody that's um contributed and and as part of this process um thank you Erin for responding to our questions that we've sent in the mail I know this is a hard job and it uh upsets a lot of people but um appreciate everybody hang in with there giving us this forum to talk but that's all I had thank you all right thank you Michael um I think we're going to give maybe uh I don't know two three minutes just to see if anyone else uh there's one more we've gotten one chair wel I do have uh Jenna Eisen Brown 1173 Street East hello thank you I just can hear you go ahead perfect thank you I wanted to uh second uh the comments of many of um many of our neighbors here I live further down in the downtown historic neighborhood so I'm not um directly by that but I believe that what affects my neighbors affects us all and also I think it's important to um keep in mind uh the the the desires of the people and their concerns and I app appreciate the time that you are all taking into considering the comments tonight I would also just like to add um additional concern for the Wildlife of the area I realize it's not a gigantic um area but it's big enough uh to be the home for a lot of creatures that have a a great impact to our Comm Community should they be lost forever um that's really all I have just please um please take these comments tonight that you've been hearing too hard and um yeah seriously consider everything that's been said I appreciate your time thank you uh thank you Jenna all right um like I said we'll maybe give another minute or two here to see if uh anyone else has something or thinks of something else to say uh I I just would again maybe just like to reiterate uh all the public for for putting in their comments um usually our meetings are pretty boring uh but but it's good to have public engagement and that that's exactly what what the Planning Commission is for and um I guess I just comment that I I've been writing notes down the whole time and and I I also have many of these same questions so I will I will definitely invite everyone to stick around for the the active discussion between the Planning Commission members uh afterwards so uh my goal is to to hit kind of the main points and help clarify your questions for you as well so um like I said we'll maybe wait another minute or so here and then uh close the public hearing and then have a have a pretty uh I would there's G to be a lot of discussion internally on the Planning Commission so again I would uh invite the public to stick around for that so I'm going just give me a minute minute here and we'll see if anyone else has something um first I resent the fact that you say our meetings are boring I think they're really fun and second I me boring isn't good no okay I think we're getting U one more resonant just hang oh sure go ahead excellent so the res uh it's Peggy Thompson Peggy do you mind sharing your address just so you don't have to type it in the chat but before you start speaking just share your address sir um my family owns that property that's to the south of malberry court so my sister Patty commented earlier does is that enough I live in Bloomington can you I think yes yes we can yeah that's good go ahead okay um first of all thank you so much for this opportunity to comment and I just wanted to make us a couple small comments I really appreciate the people that are thinking about things for the community like Park land or Park you know things like that I appreciate that it seems wonderful the other thing that I wanted to say is that um I also when I look at the future of our community um I really want to say there is something beautiful about small homes and that's just like not necessarily like I mean like high quality homes and homes that are beautiful and all of that but there's something nice about being in a Wilderness type area and maybe even if you had lots as the same size as I think it's called Green Ash if you had those same siiz Lots but just smaller homes on them that's fine too and that's a way to minimize the things like Ken heitsman was talking about like the runoff and the things like that but just environmentally friendly Construction in a in a way that preserves our land and our community that we love thank you all right thanks Patty all right um maybe give it a minute here and see if anyone jumps on then we'll close the public hearing CH chair Welch this is uh David Anderson the City attorney jump in real quick thank you yes please go ahead um and I haven't met a lot of the planning Commissioners so um um I'll just introduce myself real quickly uh I'm Dave Anderson from Kennedy and Graven I've I'm the City attorney um I just wanted to to clarify a couple quick things before we close the public hearing um first of all just from a procedural standpoint um I I think the way we should do it is for the commission to um to make a motion and second that motion to close the public hearing and then take a roll call vote on it um and yes be beyond that um um you know it's obviously it's great to hear all of this public engagement tonight and I I just want to make sure everybody knows that once the public hearing closes um there are no more opportunities at the Planning Commission meeting tonight for the public to address uh the commission so uh again this is the the public hearing portion which um will presumably be uh closing soon once everybody has had an opportunity to speak if if they want to speak um and once it's over the Planning Commission will engage in this discussion uh of course take into account all the great comments and engagement that we've heard tonight and then we'll um make its recommendation eventually um on these uh on this specific development so um I just wanted to add those thoughts and say that before uh things close thanks Dave [Music] Reed it looks like Kristen Johnson has a hand raised oh okay if you don't mind um sharing your address again and then go ahead Kristen did you wna have a public comment yes umad hi 1897 green a drive so we just wanted to make the comment that we calculated that Medals of spring Spring Creek develop vment paid 633 th000 for a park fund so that would have pretty much paid for the parcel land behind us as a natural Preserve so is there any chance that you guys could look at that as well okay thank you Commission Welch I see Jenny has her hand raised okay yeah uh Jenny did you have a um I'm sorry if that's me you're referring to um I oh no problem I do I it wasn't the hand raised in chat um it was the uh I think oh no worries okay yeah so my emoji no problem thank you no problem read it looks like Brad has a hand raed you could share your address yeah go ahead Brad yep 1900 Green Ash Drive I just had one last thing is just as I'm looking over the plot map here I guess I'd like some clarification on this at some point but uh just looking here so looks like lots one four six seven um quite a few of them um the easement goes basically to the house so is the expectation that they would not have a deck or a patio um you know if you push a house back 10 20 25 feet I mean they they' have a trailer home park sideways basically on the lot so I'm just curious on how how they would mitigate that I mean I think that's fairly reasonable thing to ask for to have the ability to have a deck or a patio but I mean goddamn near 15 20% of these homes wouldn't have the ability so um I just like that answer it as well all right um let's see give it uh give it till 9 nine at the top of the hour and then we'll close the meeting I think about e all right um again I'd like to iterate and thank thank everyone for their comments um we're we're very glad that you took time out of your schedule to uh to come and and and tell us your thoughts and feelings so um do I have a motion to close the public hearing I'll make a motion to close the public hearing all right thank you Chris uh do I have a second commissioner Ginger makes a seconds the motion to close the public hearing thanks Stephanie um uh no discussion I assume from the Commissioners on the motion all right uh uh Brenda would you please take the roll call vote for the motion commissioner godal I commissioner Monroe commissioner Monroe I commissioner wend commissioner wean I Comm commissioner Ginger commissioner Ginger I chair Welch I all right uh thank you everyone all right let me grab my agenda here all right um so now I guess maybe I'll uh do a little talking more than I usually do um yeah so now the the commission's going to discuss uh typically I have a lot of questions so I will uh defer to interrupt you for a second go ahead Aron so we typically go through um public hearing and answer some of the questions that we can just so it's part of the discussion so oh sure I had a list you want to go through your list first yes please we'll go through the go ahead yeah this will be a partnership between me Aron Schmid the city engineer and Dave Anderson the City attorney so I tried to take some really good notes so I'll start cruising through if that's okay um so starting the 92 verse 96 I had that information incorrect it's 92 for the feet across a culdesac for a fire truck um I would ask that this group doesn't try to do density calculations just based off that information removing Lots can either mean you're removing 5,000 or 12,000 feet and the density calculation gets wonky so I Don't Want U people to think that just taking a couple Lots off um just means that that property does not uh is no longer buildable um I'm surprised to hear that the trail was such a flop but I think that's something we can definitely reevaluate based on feedback I thought it was kind of a fun idea but we can move on from that no issue on the letter of credit I'm going to defer to Dave eventually but the amount that we hold it does decrease as the project um progresses so once we deem that a project is 30% complete we release 30% of the letter of credit but again that number always corresponds with the amount of work that is left so at no point are we left with less money than what would be required for uh construction a couple of questions about parking and overflow parking unfortunately the street in front of your house is public so people can park there and that's a bummer I totally get that but we don't regulate who parks where um we do have some information if someone has parked for an extended period of time but we don't limit who can park where on our public streets um several of the comments were related to the developer and that's not applicable to the land use application so we're not going to be addressing those tonight um Carver County Land Management this project is entirely in the city of Carver so we use our own standards um the county is does not require a review of this project um a couple questions about the areas that are buildable so I know Brad just asked it at the end the area on the map that's the square that's the buildable area that's not the house location so if someone comes in and they say it's really important to me to have a deck they might put their house somewhere different than where they might say I don't care about a deck I want a bigger house so the squares that are on the lots are the buildable area not necessarily where the house will go um for non-compliance on a project site so we have a construction engineer on site um on all of our sites throughout the summer so they're out there with our plans read if you think our meetings are boring I think that job sounds boring because they literally just watch construction happen and they make sure that everything is to Snuff and if it's not we get a pretty quick message back at City Hall to say they're needing a change in where the sanitary sewer is being put let's pause for now let's reevaluate we need to work through it so our sites are always watched by boltman m staff which is our city engineer um I'm going to keep Hing through air and I'm just creating a list for you but one to think about a storms um the financial gain of the city there's there's not much for us to gain um we get some tax base but beyond Park dedication there's not much that we gain in accounts so I'm sorry if that's a misconception I'd be happy to talk through that with residents that might have questions um so Matt had a question about the trees on the lot what makes it a significant tree Jim gave a great definition so in our city code it's eight inches in diameter so again that's a definition that's in our code that we're required to follow um again the trail uh we can definitely think about that differently uh as a city uh we take a project that's proposed um off based based off market conditions of a private developer so it's not our role to watch the market determine what type of home should go based on market conditions um Street layout I'm going to defer to Aaron Schmidt there will be street lights we do require a lighting plan that shows that there will not be light pollution in other houses so we can definitely send that over when we have it but something that we think about in review we don't complete background checks on developers that's not our role not something that happens in our process and then Matt had a question about why doesn't the city just construct the streets so we are head held to a different standard that we require a public bidding process so that often drives the prices up of construction so a developer is usually able to get a little bit better of pricing so the city also isn't in the game of construction we are largely here for maintenance so um like our Public Services team is not equipped to do Street construction um Brian and Chris private totally get it I think Kurt has been pretty open to meeting with residents and working with them privately so if you want to set up a meeting with Kurt I'd be happy to be there too if that would be helpful um we don't hire a developer so a property owner chooses one and they come to us with a plan so that's not a role that we play so not something that we vet um Alyssa a couple of questions about what happens if the Builder suddenly doesn't want to do the project the way it's set up that would require replatting which is the process that we're going through right now so it would require review by the Planning Commission and the city council so it essentially starts over we would kind of scrap this plan come back with another um I don't anticipate no parking signs on malberry just because again it's a public Street and people are able to park there um a couple of people referenced a land use declaration and um if someone could send that to me I'd love to take a look at it I'm not familiar with it so just want to know um where that came from and what it might look like uh Aon Schmidt teeing you up again to talk about erosion um Jim had some questions about the type of home we don't know that right now since we don't know the Builder so once we have that information we'll absolutely share it with the group but we don't know things about price or the type of home it's anticipated that the city would maintain the storm water pond so we would have that access back there and it' be part of our full system and tree removal you are correct there is quite a bit of just what we call Scrub trees in there so uh you were correct with that definition and agreed that there will be some additional removal of some scrub trees um Brad had some questions about the HOA fees since we don't know the Builder the HOA hasn't been determined that will be likely um Builder determined he had some questions about drawing on a letter of credit which I'm GNA defer to Dave um Ken your comments are noted I'm not sure I have uh great response to any of them but we hear you uh and then there was a couple questions about parks and I just wanted to talk a little bit about that um so we have an adapted Parks master plan if you have not checked it out I recommend that you do we have some really beautiful renderings of parks that we're working on right now and future parks that we're working on so our Parks master plan was adopted in 2018 and we moved away from pocket parks to more regional parks to allow for greater development of those Parks so more of a draw to the community a big question about um what's happening with the park dedication money the city council um recently approved plans and specifications for an expansion of Ironwood Park so we're investing about a million dollars in an expansion of Ironwood which is directly adjacent to Carver Elementary so we're adding um a new skate park so a concrete skate park a basketball court a pavilion and Outdoor Classroom for Carver Elementary and then some pretty extensive Trail so uh Construction that Park is slated to kick off this spring we're really excited about it hopefully we'll be a draw for some more people so stay tuned again Reed was probably gonna say this is boring too but if you want to look at one pretty document that we put together the parks master plan is a really good one um it has Park renderings that I hope people will find exciting and inspiring uh if you have questions or comments about the parks master plan I'm more than happy to chat about it um Patty I think that we're getting to a spot where we're comfortable working with the developer and then City staff to get you where you need to be but I think we're pretty close um Charles again Parks question so we move to a more Regional Park system to have larger Parks instead of pocket um Zane really good point you are right that construction costs are outrageous right now but it's not our choice to wait for a project if a developer is wanting to move forward they have that choice um Bill we've heard from a couple of your neighbors about constru ruction traffic and we asked our Deputy in town to spend some more time in Meadows just based on people driving too fast so hope hopefully that um can be a little bit alleviated I totally get it construction is hard it's hard when you can't have your windows open but you live in an active construction site unfortunately so hopefully it goes fast and everything gets tied up soon I also just want to stress that a PRD is not a variance so that's a different process in our city code so just the two differences it's a big difference between a PD and a straight variance so to get a variance for a property you need to essentially establish hardship that's unique to your property where that's not what happens with a PRD um Bill a couple questions about setting a precedence with this project I think in the presentation there were a couple precedences that I've already pointed out and I agree with Jenna that just because history said we've done it once we should do it again but resoning to R2 PRD is pretty common for us uh thanks for doing that math the park dedication requirement es and flows a little bit for the development so if someone uh installs a park or um gives us some additional land the requirement amount goes down so it's not Apples to Apples all the time but again um we have a project page on our website for Ironwood Park a lot of us are really excited about it so again that was about a million dollars that we're looking to spend right now and then we have some other pretty large Parks PL so we have like a dog park planned on JCP in County Road 40 a really big splash pad planned for downtown and then in our growth area we have like a full softball baseball complex so we're definitely thinking about these things working on them check out Park master plan I think that's what I'm have in my notes so I'm gonna kick it over to Aon Schmidt if you've got some comments oh uh sure Oh Aaron just uh don't forget to tell people there is a Parks advisor group that is similar to the Planning Commission that has monthly meetings again right for we're changing the model okay that's I'll say stay tuned but the Planning Commission will be charged with some additional Parks planning so definitely a good group to hear some of that feedback okay I'm sorry go ahead go ahead Aaron city engineer right other not to Aon sorry go thank you sir um so yeah um when this development was originally um when came in um starting a concept plan approval stage um storm water management was probably the biggest piece of this whole development this had immediately stuck out um at a staff level so uh throughout the process we've worked um very closely with the developers engineer on this project and what they have come up with is they have an extensive network of both a a pond and a filtration Basin that is going to control contr the rate of the storm water that's leaving the site and then um Bluff erosion so discharging water at the top of of the bluff like many people have noted tonight is a very big concern of ours so um what they were able to do um they came up with a good solution of routing it through the existing storm sewer system that's already um constructed within the Meadows at at Spring Creek development and then routing it through um where that where that development already discharges into um the Spring Creek system so that was a very big um thing that we wanted to do we want we didn't want to add another discharge point at the top of the bluff um so I I feel that that is something that's been a big AC accomplishment with this project so that's kind of the storm sewer um and storm water management in a nutshell um I heard a comment about how all the homes like on the east side of the road are going to just go right down the bluff and um that's actually going to be collected within the the storm Pond system so we're going to be picking up that water and then you know holding it back and then control controlling the release rate of that um through the metals at Spring Creek storms as I just described so all in all um I think the development is set up really well for uh storm sewer it is designed for a 100-year uh rainfall event which is the highest design standard that we use for storm sewer so um it's held to a very high standard um erosion control was another one that Aaron brought up um obviously Bluff protection as I mentioned that was one of the first things we noted about it um the erosion control plan does have silt fence that aligns the the bluff setback throughout the whole development so that's going to be you know um the first thing that's going to check any sent um and water that's going to be leaving during construction so um that's the key for that and then obviously uh chapter 50 of the code for Bluff protection is in place for a reason so um staying 50 feet away from the top of the actual Bluff with um you know land alteration and Grading improvements um that is why that rule is in place so that's a far enough setback where you know the risk is very minimal at that point so that's the main purpose for that rule um Aaron was there another question that you had um saved for me you um talk a little bit about through the review process that we um tried to flip the call to sack I got was G to be one of my questions flip the call the sack on the yeah FP the road yeah sure yeah so the question is could the on the private Drive the East West Drive could the homes go on the North side essentially backing the existing lots that are that are within the Meadows at Spring Creek and um that doesn't work very well from a grading perspective um with the bluff setbacks that you you've seen on that plan and have noted um um how how it kind of jogs in and out getting a a straight road that would go um across where all those homes would go would be um probably impossible so that that's why the the road is on the North side and then secondly just from a topography perspective um the the grade naturally drops off to the South so that's where the homes um want to be naturally just from setting them up because um your windows in the backyard and the basements generally the grade Falls away as you go to the backyard so it just it's kind of natural that that's where they would go um in addition to just physically being able to fit a road in against the bluff um those are the two main reasons for that okay and then um uh this is one of my standard questions at every meeting um eron have also there's the watered District right that reviews all of the the storm water and land use um we we have already started that or they've already looked at it since we're already at our at our preliminary plat so maybe you or eron could go into that again for the new people for the good so the city of Carver is unique it's actually in two different um water shed districts there's the Carver County watershed management organization and then there's the lower Minnesota River Watershed District this um project itself is within the lower Minnesota River Watershed district and the City of Carver has a municipal agreement with the lower men that basically we the city of Carver is the local government unit that reviews and administers all storm water permitting rules for the district district and our ordinances are consistent with with um The District's rules so we everything that we review is consistent with their rules so they give us the the authority to do that review okay yeah so um that's typically one of my questions is making sure that those reviews have been um already so that that's good um uh did you have anything else Aon do we want to open up to the rest of the commission for questions I think Dave has a couple comments and then I have one more when he's finished sure okay go ahead go ahead Dave thanks chair and planning members of the Planning Commission again um just a couple points of clarification there was a I think a suggestion that um the Planning Commission recommendation had already been made prior to tonight's public hearing I assume that comment was alluding to Aaron's staff report it's just important to to say that and I know the Commissioners know this but just for the members of the public it's standard practice for staff to provide a written report to the Planning Commission prior to the public hearing to give the commission um the information that it needs to um consider public comment and and make a recommendation those staff reports always contain within them a staff recommendation about the project um and then the PC uh the Planning Commission you know will make its recommendation you know after hearing the public comments like we're doing tonight so nothing done on this application deviates from that um standard practice uh that the city uses with any land use application um also just given some of the comments I think it's important to make the commission aware uh or reiterate frankly you're you've been doing this um a long time that you know the personal comments made about a developer in any case whether negative or positive frankly um are not valid reasons for a city to to deny a land use application you know the commission should focus on the merits of the application of course take to account all the um very helpful public comments and things that were brought to the attention of the Commissioners tonight um from the number of folks that have participated and then you know as to the letter of credit and there's been some discussion about that it's just worth uh noting that the city always protects its interests and the interests of of the community uh in its development agreements that it uh requires all developers to enter into and that will always include a Financial Security requirement to make sure that that the improvements are not only constructed but um Aon Schmidt can can go to this that that they're properly constructed I mean they're inspected and many times um it's not uncommon for City Engineers regardless of the developer to tell the development team they have to make changes or fix things and you know that's just the way that these very elaborate and extensive development work given the amount of public improvements and other improvements that are that are constructed um and just to give everybody a little bit of an idea of of a letter of credit I mean they're they're irrevocable um and they're always required it's it's uh in fact Not only would it be a requirement of any plat approval by the city but I think it's also in your city code um but but they're a guarantee by a a federally insured Bank to to pay the city if there's a developer default um and because it's irrevocable uh that's a requirement because it is an irrevocable document the terms can't be changed by the developer um it can't terminate it can't expire anything like that without the city being given an opportunity to draw on the entire amount so those are commonly used in the development World um to ensure that developers meet their obligations um and in fact it's a like I said a require in the city of Carver and there'd be um absolutely no situation where the city wouldn't require all the financial assurances and other things from um the developer in this case you know should this development get get approved or in any other case that's that's common practice for the city so again I just wanted to make a few points uh of clarification in that respect all right read I'm gonna step in with one more if that's go ahead yep so there was a question about 15% of a PRD um being preserved for common open space and there's a section of our code that says common open space may be suitably improved for its an intended use but common open space containing natural features which are existing trees and ground cover worthy of preservation may be left unimproved so for that 15% the bluff area would qualify um I thought the trail would but I think we might be rethinking that a little bit so that's my final comment for now okay um so I guess I'll kick it off to anyone on the commission want to take a stab at some questions I I have a few so uh commissioner gal I just have one question the only the only item that doesn't meet anything within the city code is going from the R2 the side yard setbacks from 7 and a half down to 5T everything else meets the requirements so it's the 7 and a half down to five and then it's the lot size so R2 the minimum lot size is 7,000 where this request is 5500 okay that's all my questions re sure uh Jim or uh Cindy I I just wanted to make a comment sure goe a lot of people talked about this project being a benefit to the city I mean I don't know what we think of the city we don't divide up the cash that comes in in comes in from a project like this the city is the people the residents and if anybody benefits it is through lower taxes or new parks or whatever uh the city itself doesn't gain you know that the city government I know the Planning Commission doesn't divide up the fund so the other one is you know we need our function is to protect the residents but our function is also to protect Property Owners whether they have a house on it now or they're planning to build future houses and we also have a responsibility for other people that want to move to Carver to get the benefits that we all got you don't get to cut that off just because you live here now and you don't want anybody else to come in and I think we all have to think about that and the other the other thing is and when we talked about uh preserving the land if you look at outlot a that's almost as big as the area that that are going to get houses on it so we are protecting a lot of land in this proper in this proposal that's all I have thanks Jim Erin could you tell us um was there any consideration to doing less houses I know you said you didn't want us to look into the density because it gets a little wonky um how did we arrive at 24 homes as opposed to 22 or 20 and what kind of has progressed to this point sure so the city doesn't set the specific number of lots we just said the density the developer comes in with the number of lots so we haven't um drilled down into the math of what does 22 look like versus 24 it's definitely something we can take a look at but it's just what the developer proposed and it me that density which is the important piece here so we don't Advocate to ever say you need X number of lots to make this project work it's the density piece for us where the developer obviously has some different calculations things they need to run what makes a site profitable de velers they are a for-profit business so I suspect that was part of it too definitely something that we can drill into before um the city council meeting just so we can have a clear understanding of what that would do to the density the trickiest part is if you just arbitrarily start choosing which lots to take out um you might take out the largest or you might take out the smallest depending on which way you want the density to go so that's my warning against um just doing math against it because if you remove a lot that lot is still buildable so it needs to be added back to the calculation which is a little bit tricky but we can definitely explore that with the developer in the next couple weeks but it it would reduce it though so Aon has a followup to that sorry um if we if we want to have that conversation if we're already approving it tonight that means we're approving it with 24 Lots correct so how does that work so you're reom recommending approval of the preliminary plat an option would be uh you could recommend approval of the preliminary plat with the intention that staff and the developer uh come back with some density calculations I can't say at this meeting that yes XYZ might happen just because we don't know we can't make those guesses at this point but um we can definitely work with the developer see what makes sense for them and what makes sense for us too and and then we again maybe a procedural thing there's still the final plat too right so um there's the you know again for the public here we have our you know concept phase which you've already had this is the preliminary and then there's a final plat so usually the final and and preliminary are the same but there there is still a chance to change some things um so uh yeah I guess just bookkeeping there any I have some questions if no one else on the commission does okay um go ahe go ahead yeah no go for it I don't have any questions I just wanted to make a couple comments absolutely go ahead there was a lot of input tonight first of all great know that is excellent yes thank very much it is definitely excellent um I'm also impressed uh with the fact that the developers offered to meet with uh residents adjacent to this development and something might change coming out of the out of that discussion so I'm in agreement with Stephanie that you know maybe we you know if if if we decide to approve or recommend to the council approval of this preliminary plant it could be contingent upon uh decisions made by uh City staff developer and these concerned residents um but also at the same time I want to caution that um uh we don't have the right to deny a developer to do a development that meets code and that meets land use so you know I just I think um I and I and I think that as the majority of us probably feel like yes this should development should go through but it could be tweaked so that there's less pain to the residents to the north so that's that was all comment I wanted to make thanks yep um yeah I guess I'll I'll start with my my list thankfully Aon was taking notes as well as well as I uh so I think I think that hit most of the the questions that the the public had I think fairly well um I guess my only maybe you know that the I guess my big concern is is the CU the saac getting um do you have let's see uh Erin do you want to put up the the plot map again so people can follow along I have it up on my other screen here um yeah so the the one right the called theack and then the house that has those little dotted uh up there in the corner does that that Mak sense yeah okay that's the retaining one okay yeah um that yeah I mean if there's anything we can do to tweak the plan to get that you know I don't know adjust the the lot that looks like maybe there's you know again I don't want to backseat the the plan but but I mean anything we can do to to give that Resident a little more little more buffer right uh you know push the Lots down or tweak the culde saac shap I mean not I don't know I think that would be something that that that we should definitely look into um I'm not sure how how much more work I want to make for you but uh yeah and then I think the other question of of why why didn't we just put the houses on the other side so that that the the road didn't go through those the other backyard which obviously is not ideal for for everybody but I think Aaron answered that pretty well with the existing grade and you know typically you want you know your your rear of your house to have your walk out or Lookout basement so that that makes some sense there um so on the so you said that if we switched it to a public Street we would it would need to be wider to accommodate the parking on both sides is there no way we can do like a variance to make make it a public street but only have parking on one side or is that just too crazy to to get into the the weeds and there's so many other issues in terms of um you know that kind of stuff so the public Street if it were to be 32 feet across you could park on both sides for both sides okay okay and then that that's the main uh design right I mean typically you know most we don't have uh a private street but in this case we're doing it to allow for more buffer right because we can make a a private Street smaller than than the public right so then that allows the developer and the plan to have like you said The more trees and buffering um you were we going to have any like landscape burms or did they get it do we have any detail on just other kind of uh improvements to kind of again be good neighbors right to to do as much as we can to to preserve the the views of the The Neighbors on Green Ash there um you know plant trees and that stuff did how far along are you guys on that or or I know we have a landscape plan is that is that that in here typically I I think you know where sometimes we get detailed you know of where bushes and trees are going on of me yeah so the landscape plan is in the packet explored the idea of a burm they typically take up a little more space but it's definitely something we can explore yeah and it might be a little noise right the the BMS theorically help reduce noise I know we had some of that on uh uh development over close by the 212 obviously this is going to be noise as are but um yeah and then uh yeah I guess the other um again following on if if if there's there's options to you know so do you have the list of the lot sizes again so there were right it's kind of confusing right because we say the minimum is seven but then we we going to have uh the PRD is going to allow up to 5,000 but we only had four four or five lots that were in that in that range I can't see your SC I see the black screen maybe yeah no problem maybe yeah right because you know it's the right so the the would saying the minimum but you know I I think the a you know you know mathematically right averages is and mean but if we looked at the actual numbers there only a very few lots that were actually that small right yeah those seeven yeah seven eight nine 10 and they're not even they're even above the 5,500 they were asking for so okay and then like you said the typical typical size was 7,000 at the current density right and then the R2 is our least dense um we have an R1 District too so R1 is the lowest density okay um was there any what was is there any thinking of that or is that the developer kind of picks what what density they want for the so we set the density with the comp plan the comp plan okay okay yep and then the comp plan is the one where we had to it's the long-term plan where we had to file it with like the um I don't know if want be going to that a little just again for the public right that's the long-term plan that we have to file with the the state or the county the Met Council the there go okay yeah met Council right so that that's not something that we have a lot of flexibility on right once we've set that plan it's it's locked in at a five or 10 year window and it's like a longterm just maybe a little more detail for the the people on the call or the meeting with the comp plan so since we're part of the seven County metropolitan area we're required to complete a comprehensive planning process every 10 years so that uh requires us to look at every property in Carver as well as our um growth area which is a majority of dogr Township so we take a look at properties and then the Met Council sets some standards that we need to meet including that density requirement so low density which is R1 and R2 needs to be three to five units per acre so can go below three without an amendment to the comprehensive plan I don't anticipate that that would be supported by the Met council at this time just based on the other specifications that they've given us in the plan okay so yeah I guess that's not something right that's a far more involved step to to get changed okay and then um I guess maybe that this slide reminds me again that um the total area of the the parcel is actually really huge right so there's 10 10 approximately 10 acres right this one but only we're only actually building on two one point three or so in total I think the entire site is about 14 and I think about six are buildable six buildable right so so in terms of you know the actual land that people it's like you said the bluff and all those trees are staying it's just going to be a very small portion on the top basically that's going to be built right so um okay okay um I think that hit all my main talking points last questions um so does the commission want to discuss have an eron do some more work of of maybe doing a a 23 or 22 house see that effects can we hit the density there and or do we want to see what that is or is that maybe something we wait until final plat to look at or so I would request that uh you make it less um like we need to hit 22 or 23 Lots so Dave correct me if I'm wrong but I think there's opportunity to say uh recommending approval contingent on staff exploring different densities uh prior to the city council meeting yeah that works okay okay is that I mean I think that's what I would like to see I think there's a lot of concerns by the residents and I agree with them but I also understand that if they are within um all of our codes they have a right to develop the land but I'd like to see some more compromise before we we give that final approval and I don't think that it's fair to wait until final plat okay Jim or Cindy do you guys have any thoughts on can Aon do a little more work on maybe a couple different options yeah I I agree with Stephanie about you know seeing and what Aeron said about seeing if we can you know change density a little bit and then uh I'd also like to see what comes of the developer meeting with the neighbors yeah you know I don't expect anything major but I mean there could be some things that you know would help yeah I mean I think I in in in general I mean I think again compliment Aaron and and the developer they seem like they've tried to make a good compromise at the start right I think I think the big sticking point is is the overall total number and then anything we can do to improve like I said the the least disruptive to the you know the the homes along the edge and I I think it sounds like the the private street is actually going to be a the big biggest benefit in that terms right because then again allows us uh to add more more landscaping and buffering between the the houses right and then um again I think the engineer answered my question if if we tried to move the shet around that's just not feasible the way the topography and uh you know you know the realities right I mean we um so so yeah I think that's kind of where I'm thinking um Jim did you have anything you want to chime in uh I could go along with that that okay so are you making a motion uh well I'm I don't the chair does usually can I jump in chair quick Dave yes just to clarify thank you um I usually try to not be too involved in this stuff but I I want to make sure I understand what what the question was um you know I suppose if the Planning Commission wants to um do what you just mentioned and that would be make a recommendation that's of approval contingent on you know City staff and the developer looking at other options regarding you know the reduction of of one or two lots to talk and to talk about those options I think that's fine I just want to make sure you know that you know this wouldn't come back to the Planning Commission and then it would go to the council I think the uh staff and the developer between now and when it goes to the council would look at those options and present their findings to the council ultimately it would be up to the Council on what the decision might be on the application um you know I suppose your other option and Aon can correct me or tell me if this doesn't work for the timelines but I assume it does me the statutory timelines for making a decision on these applications um you could always table a recommendation and bring it back to a you know the next Planning Commission meeting um that would give staff that opportunity to look at those options um you know the public hearing has has happened um if you did that we we would of course welcome members of the public all back to that hearing or to that meeting to listen to the discussion um but if you want to hold off on making a recommendation until those options are explored that would be another choice tonight and again I just want to make sure that you understand that if you do it in the first way that was discussed and and um I think considered that it wouldn't come back to the Planning Commission it would just go right to the council given the opportunity for Aaron and and the developer to look at those um different densities so hopefully that makes sense yeah I think so um so would it make sense to split the rezoning and the uh the the recommendation or they are they kind of tied together is the resoning kind of contingent on having a plan or or could we do the you know I mean I think in general it it's you know obviously we we don't want to tell the Builder what they can do with their land and you know but we also like I said want to be respectful and try to get the best for everyone right so um I mean go ahead I don't think it makes sense to to bifurcate the I would keep them together Aon you know the timelines are a little different with the rezoning you've got 60 days up to 120 on that the plat you always have 120 on a PR AR plat so um I guess I'll put you on the spot here and just make sure that if they did want to bring it back they could do that under the 60 day rule yeah and I guess the other question is I don't Erin do you think you can uh I mean I don't know how how many other developments we have in Flight right do you think getting a few different scenarios in time for the the city council meeting is is do without you guys having to work too crazy hard or um or if we push it out a month would that throw off the developer timeline too much so I suspect that it would with the developer just based on purchase agreement okay no problem but it's absolutely your discretion so thought is we're we're the ones making the recommendation the city council's making the ultimate decision right so right I would propose can I make the motion on it sure go ahead I propose to recommend the PL preliminary horrible word plats for Brookview uh with the conditions of having City staff review um the density to see if anything could be changed or adjusted and then moving forward from there okay do I have a second commissioner Monroe second that all right thanks Cindy all right um I think we've had a pretty good discussion on can I add one more thing sure absolutely I think I have a concern of um continuing to move move it forward and letting the city council make the final decision cuz we're I mean we're basically taking ourselves out of the entire discussion by doing that I just want to put that on the record because that that does bother me because we aren't GNA know what the final decision is or what has happened between now and March 7th can I add something go go ahead Cindy yeah understand I understand your ER Stephanie but in the end the city council makes the decision anyway what we're doing is recommending that we look at the densities if we can if we can make it so it's a little easier on the neighbors of the north we will do that uh I mean we will that that would be our recommendation yeah um so but the city council is going to be the final one to decide anyway so at least they all know this was our input this is what this is what we heard at our public hearing you know and this is what the residents are in interested in so I think I think it's safe to go ahead and go this way haven't been a city council member we usually took the we almost always took the bo uh commission's recommendation and we have joy and is on the phone also Joy Joy's our new city council representative right we typically have a a city council liaison who who sits in on planning commission's meeting apparently for this this year's Joy welcome I guess we've been kind of busy just for tonight oh just for tonight oh Glen oh Glen Glen the fast one on you I'm subbing for Glenn and so so I just I just want to State a couple things I was gonna kind of wait till the end of the meeting but I want to say how appreciative I am to be here to listen to all of this resident engagement and input and feedback plus all of the commission's comments and concerns um it has been extremely valuable um especially since this is going to be coming to the council um I feel like I have a really good understanding of what the community is feeling about this um and can help Express that at the city council so that's what that's what my job is here to listen um and to to bring that forward along with your recommendation to the council um I was on the Planning Commission for 15 years so I've sat in your shoes and I will concur that this is probably one of the biggest feedback meetings I've seen um so I'm really pleased to see the resident engagement it is your voices are heard and it is impactful and so thank you everybody for taking out the time tonight um to come and ask questions listen and um be heard so um I I concur with what Cindy um and you know Jim are saying about bringing this to the council you know they're former council members as well um and I also agree that we really list listen to this commission um this is a really important part of our government um in hearing the Public's comments um taking uh your recommendations with those comments up to the council so um we listen so that's all I have to say for now so I agree with kind of the recommendation that you guys are heading um and we'll be sure to take a look at this recommendation closely when it hits the council okay anyone else have discussion on the motion on the Planning Commission fell or uh I think I think everyone's talked so okay um Brenda would you take the role for the motion sure to recommend should we restate yeah yeah could you restate please um H I just didn't write anything down uh let's see you want me to restate it yeah yeah yeah Christa go ahead I'll make a motion to recommend the approv linary plat of Brookview with conditions of the Planning Commission to have staff review the density and look at other options all right additional options all right excellent right can I apologize can I ask one brief question because my internet went out a little bit here I think while aarin was talking um from a timeline perspective um I know uh Mr Anderson had proposed another option of tabling this to the next Planning Commission I may have missed the answer around the timing of this um development um and the timeline that we have available was that feasible it's feasible yes um I'd like to connect with Kurt just based on their timeline if they have a purchase agreement that's set to expire as well okay so it is feasible if we wanted to table it correct okay okay I just want to make sure that commission is aware of that option yeah um okay uh yeah well I guess we have a motion right so we have to go go through with it so let's let yeah I guess we just go through with the motion I think I think we definitely want to have have a have the conditions attached so um that's what we have in front of us so let's can I can I say one thing go ahead yeah um I thought um I thought you said this would throw the timeline off if we tabled it I suspect it would for Kurt but we are on a different timeline okay yeah all right yeah um okay uh yeah I I guess you know um I guess maybe one to two houses I I hope wouldn't make a huge uh difference in terms of of you know just maybe giving a little more room on some of those streets I mean I think it's definitely something we want to have looked at so um yeah let's let's take a look at actually I need a second do I have a second for Christa's I already seconded oh okay you did I say sorry thank you lost track all right um so uh Brenda would you take the role the Commissioners for the vote commissioner codell commissioner codell I commissioner Monroe Comm commissioner Monroe I commissioner weend commissioner wean I commissioner GRE singer missioner Ginger I chair Welch I all right okay so now we have to move on to the oh I lost my my motion all right um oh should we have done uh chair weling second yep here we go we are to motion number two for the resoning request exactly okay yeah I just I had to get my papers back in order thank you Brenda all right um do I have a motion to approve the resoning for Brookview with the conditions that the uh city office and uh city planner look at adjusting uh number of houses between 22 to 23 re I would ask that you don't set a number set a number okay I was gonna say I I will make a motion to approve the rezoning based on with the contingency that the city staff and the developer work together to see if there are better density calculations am I saying that correctly I think that gives us enough leeway Erin what do you I'm not giving you specific numbers yeah exactly Dave isn't jumping in so I think we're okay okay okay excellent uh thank you uh Stephanie do I have a second I'll second that all right thanks Jim all right uh I think we've had plenty of discussion anyone have anything else okay excellent uh Brenda would you please take the role for the motion Commissioner Goodell commissioner gell I commissioner Monroe commissioner Monro I commissioner weend commissioner wean I commissioner Ginger commissioner Ginger I chair Welch I all right okay uh all right so that is all of our am I unmuted myself oh good okay uh that is all of our new business um I know it's getting late does anyone have any uh Communications or any other thing they want to add before we adjourn the city council meeting that that will'll discuss this you said was May no March 7th March 7 okay and then uh that's a good so Aaron is there also a public hearing at that city council meeting for the the resoning or is that typically not something this okay so there's not a public hearing but the city council can choose to take public comment if they wish okay so there's another opportunity for the people at this meeting if they want to again keep keep going the process for the city council meeting okay excellent um I guess yeah uh I didn't have anything I thank thank you I maybe the general thank you to everyone for sticking around with us for one of our longer meetings how many people the public are still on here and uh and thanks to everyone on the commission so do I have a motion to adjourn I'll make a motion to adjourn all right thank you Christa do I have a second commissioner Ginger seconds thank you Stephanie all right uh Brenda would you take the role for the vote please Commissioner Goodell commissioner gell I commissioner Monroe commissioner Monroe I commissioner weand commissioner Wan I commissioner Ginger commissioner Ginger I chair Welch I all right uh again thank you everybody and have a good night good night