all right I guess we are at time so I will call the meeting to order um and I will seek approval uh or for the first item on the agenda is approval of the agenda um so I will seek a motion to approve the agenda I'll make that motion so I'll second okay motion has been made and by Christa and second by Jun okay um any further discussion seeing none all those in favor I I any opposed motion carries all right we will move on to Moval of the the June 15 minute so I will seek motion to approve the June 15 2023 Planning Commission minutes I'll make that motion I'll second motion motion by Mary and second by Christa any further discussion see um seeing none all those in favor I I I any opposed motion carries all right so next we will move on to the our first item in the agenda which is a public hearing for sidewalk cathet ordinates um so we will now open the public hearing those wishing to address the Planning Commission should come forward and state their name and address for the record after all comments are received the public hearing heing will be closed no further comments on the issue will be received at this meeting so I guess we're officially open then okay have to so then do we just want to have our own discussion so Vick Vick's gonna do a presentation got a little bit of an overview for you sure my slides are working here so good evening everyone uh we are are here tonight to talk about the outdoor Sidewalk Cafe ordinance and this ordinance was actually adopted back in 2018 and over the course of time we have found that there have been some pieces of the ordinance that were maybe confusing and wasn't as clear as we thought they should be so we thought this was a great opportunity to go ahead and review the ordinance so that's what we ended up doing and as part of that we changed the definition of what the actual outdoor Sidewalk Cafe is and there was I already heard some discussion earlier about what are we talking about when we're talking about this um outdoor Sidewalk Cafe so the actual definition is and here's um the markup of what it was and what we changed it to but it is an outdoor Sidewalk Cafe shall mean a seating area with one or more tables and chairs on a public sidewalk adjacent to a permitted use where food Andor beverages are sold and served to customers for on-site consumption from the business operating such permitted use and you will see the picture there if you recognize that it is of the Outdoor cwalk Cafe that is at Harvey's Bar and Grill and currently that is the only uh permit that we do have or the license that we have for the outdoor Sidewalk Cafe at this time but also we wanted to update the ordinance in preparation for when we get different applications in to make the process a little bit easier so in doing that what we ended up doing was looking at the entire ordinance and as I already mentioned we updated the definition at the same time we added a purpose for allowing The Outdoor cwet Cafe and identifying when a license was actually required and where it is allowed we clarify the required information on the application the process for review and the conditions for approval that was really where we saw some of the confusion and some of the questions that were coming in so we really tried to detail that we also identified the criteria and the performance required requirements used in the approval process and then we detailed the inspection and enforcement criteria when we were looking at this then our City attorney said well as long as you're making these changes to the ordinance it probably make sense at this time to move the existing regulations from chapter 15 50 zoning into chapter 10 which is businesses it just makes sense to do that so that's really the reason I have this highlighted and that's really the reason we're here this evening um to have this public hearing because of that change to the zoning ordinance so that is what we were asking you to take a look at this evening so what do we have to have happen just to give you a little bit of background of the city council review the draft ordinance that you had in your packet for tonight at their June 26th 2023 work session and they provided feedback and those changes were put into the draft that you see tonight the next step is in updating this ordinance is to actually hold this public hearing tonight before the Planning Commission which is why I mentioned um this is required since we are making a change to the zoning ordinance and what we would be asking you to do tonight after the public hearing if we have any public comments um to make then a recommendation to the city council who can then consider a final adoption of the ordinance at their next city council meeting so that's what we would be looking for this evening and I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have so I don't know if you have any questions for me um do we want to I have one quick question related to the public hearing portion of this um with a lot of public hearings there's a notice that goes out who what was the notice criteria for this one besides like publish in the paper what was was the direct like notice do you want to take that one I don't know that there was any additional mailing required uh but it was published in the paper and then we also took uh the steps to send out a copy of the public hearing notice with the draft ordinance to some of the local businesses that had either inquired in the past or actually had the license at this time just to make them aware that we were making these changes and if they wanted to come tonight and express any concerns or ask any additional questions we took that additional step but that was not required to do that so that's a little different than typical like zoning applications so things like rezoning uh preliminary plat State Statute sets sets those requirements so for an ordinance change we just have to publish in the paper for some land use public hearings have some additional requirements by State Statute has any other businesses indicated any interest in we have had two inquire we have had some inquiries but they did not meet the requirements for what is identified in the criteria meaning they maybe didn't have enough room to allow for the you know the five feet off the curb and those types of things or they actually submitted the application and then they maybe changed their mind because there are some pieces that go into the application one of the things if you noted um in the actual ordinance they have to redo their sack and whack charges meaning that could actually add additional cost for them depending upon what that comes in at so there's a lot of pieces that come into it and so we've had some questions and yes we've had some applications and people have changed their mind or maybe they didn't meet the criteria but also the other reason that we wanted to update it is again into the future are we going to have other applications as the city you know continues to grow the downtown changes uh what would allow for opportunities to have outdoor saat cafes so we want to be we want to be prepared and you also require a million dollar insurance for the insurance is that in there now yes okay and uh changed your liquor license to account for it as well correct if they like an example of Harvey's where they have extended that in their serving alcohol they have to make the changes to their existing liquor license so that's all in the application form so if they wouldn't meet that criteria then they couldn't do that either so now another quick is any resid ever complained about Harvey's I am not I am not aware that we've had any complaints and if we if we did have any complaints the ordinance allows the city then to go and we would review our they meeting all of the criteria that the ordinance identifies and if if not then we would follow that process so got it um seeing nobody for public hearing maybe we'll close the public hearing and then move into commissioner questions so um I will ask for a motion to close the public hearing right why don't we just leave it open a little leave it open okay I mean that's we can have our own discussion let's let's come back to that then just in case somebody so if you don't mind I'm going to back up and give you like the 60-second sack determination just so you um can think about what it would mean for a business to want to move forward so uh anytime that additional business space is being used the person has to send their plan to the met counsil and then the Met Council determines if they believe that the business will be using more sewer essentially will their toilets be flushing more based on this increased square footage so adding additional space outside makes their business larger allows for tables and chairs so and Vicki said that a sack determin determination needs to be done if it's determined that they would be using another Sac unit they would need to pay the Met Council fee which is about $2,500 and the city fee which is about 9 Grand so it's not um we've had a couple businesses come in and we've explained they would re need to redo their sack determination and then had to have the hard conversation of if it comes back higher it's probably going to be between 9 and 12 Grand if you want to move forward so anytime a house comes in we do a sack determination we get that sack sewer availability connection charge Sac um fee anytime a business comes in they have to do that same determination so it's across the board across the city but can have really large cost implications so that's why we've had some inquiries that then have changed their mind once they get to know some of the details got it um can we go back to the the the top what is the top slide definition sorry yes um so I just wanted to ask um and maybe as I saw as we kind of read that this was first talking in the city council was there a direct um initiative to say the like one or more tables and chairs um so it seems like kind of the op the the reason for this is obviously Public Safety for a right of way of sidewalk but then like if somebody's serving out in that that area um but with a business is they have food indoors but then they have an excessive amount of just like benches um that similar people could use and gather around would that not meet this definition of table and chairs I can one I think we both might take part of it so the Met Council doesn't include that as part of like a restaurant space so we took their lead on it that an additional sack determination wouldn't be made so mirrored it similarly that way and then in addition to that that a bench would not meet the definition so if a business just put some benches out and they're allowing their customers to purchase the food inside and then go outside or other people walking along the sidewalk to utilize those benches that is not the definition of an outdoor Sidewalk Cafe we were very deliberate in changing this because that's been some confusion in the past yep that makes sense because then the servers aren't going out in that in instance correct makes sense exactly would picnic tables count then I'm sorry picnic tables would those if if there was a business that had picnic tables out that would count as tables and chairs correct if they would have that on the sidewalk we're talking about on a sidewalk um depending upon if as long as there's enough space again we'd have to see the diagram to see but um I guess just a question is do picnic tables fall under the definition of table and chair so I suspect you're thinking about the creary who has some picnic tables in the back there's so this one is specific to sidewalks only so they can have those on their back patio which is likely included in their First Act determination but if they wanted to put picnic tables on the sidewalk as part of a Sidewalk Cafe they'd have to go through this perit process yeah and I I would I would assume it does meet the definition correct yep I have a question so the Outdoor Cafe definition says food Andor beverage but if you look in section e it says permitted food and beverage so supposed to be and or or or both that's prob good catch Christa catches me on Technic Tech alties at every meeting where do you see the second e should have an or yeah correct in the definition yes oh I see the double but the the um or is double underlined so that is is new being added yes I'm not I'm not under I might be missing something I'm not understanding the question so do you have a copy of the ordinance available to post on the screens I have don't you stop sharing I can start sharing oh I'm sorry that's okay kind of want to share my screen got be plugged in so in E so 2 e where it starts the double underscore for for permitted food and beverage oh so and or match with your outdoor Sidewalk Cafe definition yep thank you for clarifying that no other technicalities in the document dang I usually have several we always appreciate the uh comments on that as well other questions I think I got all my questions answered um has everybody now it's been at least 15 minutes so I think I will um seek a motion to close the public hearing so moved second and the second all right any further discussion seeing none all those in favor of closing the public hearing say I I I those opposed motion carries um as we have had discussion ourselves I will move on to a motion to recommend approval of the draft ordinance amending chapters 10 and 50 of the Carver City code re regarding outdoor sidewalk cafes does anyone would like to make that motion I'll make that motion and the second a second all right the motion has been made and second any further discussion all those oppos or all those all those in favor I I I and any opposed motion carries all right we'll move on to agenda item number five communication I just have a couple quick things to update you all on so uh a couple weeks ago we got the really good news that um we were successful in our Grant application to the DNR so we were awarded $350,000 for Creekside Park I'm trying to pull it up on my screen right now it's taking forever um so Creekside is the park at the corner of Jonathan Carver Parkway and uh County Road 40 let's see if that works there it is so we are um we've updated our concept we have heard a big demand for pickle ball so originally we had two courts programmed here we've bumped it up to four day one which we feel like is probably the right move with the amount of people that are looking to play so construction of Creekside Park is going to start in 2024 probably take us through 2025 which is exciting so there's a couple things working on the site all at once so the great news about the DNR Grant we also received about $360,000 from the state for Creek restoration so in the next couple weeks there's going to be uh contractor out there uh working on Carver Creek so working on some erosion uh stabilizing creek beds making the creek a healthier body of water which is really exciting so you'll start to see some of that work so don't be spooked if you see contractors out there it's not the pickle ball quite yet but we're working towards that so I'm working on relocation of the public storage that's there right now so it's really exciting so we're looking forward to getting started on that project and then just uh Planning Commission FYI that Hometown Bank received all their land use approvals on Monday so they are hoping to start construction next month uh open for business next spring so likely a fall winter spring construction but really looking forward to W welcoming them and mocha monkey to the community so um for the park when is the I know it's was few for the disc but the disc gos so that's phase two of this park we are going to work on this one and then our Focus shifts a little bit to our park downtown getting the splash pad going just knowing that the same pool of money will be used for some of those projects and the council's identified the splash pad to be a higher priority right now so I hope in the next couple of years but I think it'll depend on how that project shakes first very cool those are my only Communications for tonight all right um do any of the Commissioners have uh any items I just want to mention that next weekend there is a terrific book sale at the chco library that's which is the closest library to Carter for now for now all right um seeing no other things on the agenda I will ask for a motion to adjourn anybody motion toj and a second a second uh and motion has been made and second all those in favor say I I any opposed motion carries meeting is adjourned do they think turn the heat on