okay it appears to be 5:30 all right um let's call the meeting to order and let's start with Mount Hope Road parking analysis Mr Lis or thank you mayor and Council before Dan uh get started I just wanted to provide a little bit of a a lead in so for the past several years the the city has received a number of I wouldn't call them complaints but concerns from residents regarding parking on Mount Hope Road the city kind of has haphazard signage along that stretch um and we really just haven't done a lot with it just trying to mediate kind of um short-term issues as it relates to that and asking people for compliance but we've had an uptick related to parking complaints as you get further up Mount Hope Road uh there's a new house constructed on the east side um and so we've had an uptick in issues and so rather than kind of Peace mealing this kind of back and forth I asked the city engineer uh just to do an analysis on the entire stretch of Mount Hope Road so right now this is for uh the council's information we're we are looking for some direction if if you're looking at making some changes uh we would U take the next step and invite Property Owners adjacent to uh Mount Hope Road to come into a future council meeting and provide some input before the council um decided to make a change or not make it change but prior to getting to that I'll turn it over to Dan to give an overview of his study findings well uh good uh good evening so I will uh I'll bring you back to a topic we've touched on many times over again so you could probably tell me what the right answer is based on all the all the uh things you've heard about street wids over the past five five six months so it's it's really going to be a lot of the same it's I I can tell you what we did is we we went out and did some measurements and and that's that's where this all started we we measured the road what should it be right now I believe there's there's some parking that's that's occurring on the south end of the road here um down uh near old cover Road here but uh uh what we were really looking to do is just measure it and say Here's here's by the books what the recommendations would be so um what we found was the road is six F feet on the the south portion here up to about Sky View Lane and then past Sky View Lane it goes up to 28 feet so if you recall from many of these discussions here uh the the 26 feet is kind of that magic cut off uh where you get into the the one-sided uh parking versus no parking and it's uh greater than 26 feet is is the threshold for allowing parking on one side of the road and so you're you're effectively uh just just below that so the south end of it really only meets the requirements for for uh uh no parking uh at at 26 feet wide and then uh 28 feet to the north of Sky View is sufficient for parking on one side of the road and that would really just be a matter of uh which side of the road you would choose we defaulted to the you know fire hydrant locations is the most common practice there certainly can be some discussion on that but I you know typically speaking you you look at where the fighter hydrant are a lot of this is for fire fire service so uh try and keep that roll clean for uh fire fire department so we would you know recommend the parking be on the opposite side so the figures that are presented to you show show that as much it's certainly subject to some comment and and discussion and part of that was uh contingent on the final review by the fire chief and uh Public Services Group so that is that is the finding so you would basically have no parking um uh at the South segment that would be changing that' be posted differently than it is today and on on the Sky View Lane to the South be' be different and then to the north of that be posted on one side of the road no parking and there is a figure in your packet that kind of shows why it's so tight if you're you look at that memo there's a image in there that BR wanted to kind of a visual of really what what it means when you have three cars lining up in a segment this wide and so I thought yes that that figure or that um imagees not three large cars they're three moderate Siz Vehicles passing at the same time and you can see a door would be taken off so if uh if they passed a vehicle that was parked opening their doors so it is tight and that is the that is the finding here so I can open it up for questions so the one thing that I had when I saw this is you mentioned um confirming the findings with the public service director and the Fire Marshall they have not officially received this yet no no they haven't I mean just informal discussion here uh at this point so no it is still subject to that final final comment period this is just by the books so I have a couple of questions and comments so yes we have the figure here with the cars lined up and the door opening um I guess no matter where you park most people should probably look before they open the door so I guess to me you could be in the parking lot at Target and open the door so and you should probably look to make sure you're not going to hit another car or you're don't have someone passing but um I worry about the business on the corner um we know that it has changed uses right now but when it was busier as a coffee shop where the traffic was coming in and out where would business patrons Park let's say this went back to a coffee shop or something else that had a greater use than the insurance company that's going to be in there now no solve to that at all I've always parked on Old Carver Road to be honest when I use that and I've always parked on this road and you're slowing down as you're coming down the hill anyways you know you're coming to a stop sign I guess I didn't personally see any issues with it again I mean you people should be use their own common sense to look before they fling a door open into a road um we can't help that sometimes no matter where or when people are but um did you hear a lot of complaints or issues when the coffee shop was open and people were parked on that side of the road there is roughly the same amount I mean here and there I mean I wouldn't say that there we're getting dozens of calls it's just been enough um to the point where we wanted to get some Cil Direction so that we can resolve this and we're not sure we're not we're merely s putting this out there as information we're not suggesting that there's an alternative as far as parking your points are all well taken okay I guess for me when initially I mean this is a work session this is why we're here to talk about it when I look at it we're right we're right on that edge of 26 feet um you know where it could kind of go either way another inch would put you over to the other side of the coin um I do worry about future uses in that building and businesses and having a hindrance to parking you know we want to talk about um supporting our downtown businesses and making it viable for them and I think that it would be very um I think it would be a hindrance to have absolutely no parking next to that building should the use change into something else so just so I'm clear you're advocating for it to remain the same the no parking on one side correct at this point yeah we what was that last part no parking on one side it's so it's currently No Parking On One one side the church in one area so like from Sky View down yeah from Sky View down you know there's a couple of signs right on the west side of the street saying no parking but there's nothing north of Sky View right and this width is suggesting that there only should be parking allowed on one side so maybe it's just parking allowed on one side the whole way down I guess maybe I'm interpreting this wrong that from here down past I'll just call it the coffee shop um would be Z no parking on the road that's the recommendation but I think what you're suggesting is not that but maybe allowing parking one side the whole way but being consistent with our signage maybe right exactly yep that's it I misunderstood what you were saying sorry about that okay no no no no no I'm there okay I like I like that idea I mean it takes it takes a step in the direction of being clear and consistent with what's what are we allowing and I I have concerns about that coffee shop location and parking around there and without really understanding what other parking is available to people I don't know what parking is available on Fifth Street or Sixth Street or elsewhere along there I don't have a really good understanding of the width of those streets and what's available if we don't allow parking along Mount h Road um and then you know if we have problems or we have issues or take another step yeah I mean the other option right now that people have used in the p is parking on the county road right in front of it um the other roads going up I don't know the withth of Fifth Street I don't know what that was changed to but I know that the Sixth Street East that's up there that's a pretty good hike up the hill I don't imagine that most people are going to I just more thinking up you know because I mean the the no parking goes all the way up to Sky View and I don't know about people visiting other residences or parking in the street along there and I think you know we haven't seen a lot you know so some of it you can do from past history as you get farther up people aren't parking a lot on both sides because those streets do oops excuse me do you know take a right there on Seventh Street but um Clarity yes of of having them not kind of mish mashed all over on one side parking this side parking that but um I like that so just to the you know we're talking about consistency and Clarity I think what we're saying here now is no parking on that east side of the street north of Sky View but then below that it would continue to be on the west well let's call it the west side of the street so are you all comfortable with changing it flipping it Midway such that you can park on the West Side north of Sky View Park on the east side right that's the proposal correct or he's proposing nothing North Sky View Sky View you're parking on the west hand the West hand side the west side of the street okay so there's that and the only other thing that I keep going back to I understand wanting to be business friendly it's just that especially it came to light and we all remember it most recently with the 2018 Street Improvement project of sticking to these fire defined with really really closely so i' certainly want to hear input from fire and public works and that would influence my decision my thoughts are I don't I'm not comfortable with the idea of losing parking spaces south of Sky View Lane because I don't see anything in the plan of replacing what we'd be losing for parking spaces so if there was a project aligned with with it that gave us the number of parking spots that we were losing um otherwise I'm not as comfortable having no parking on both sides when you come south of Sky View Lane parking's always been an issue in downtown yeah yeah I always if I if we yeah I would like to avoid losing any parking spaces and it's a balance too of being consistent and realistically there's not going to be as much tra trff at the insurance company as there was at the coffee shop so there won't be as much demand for parking on that corner um I don't know if from Fifth Street down if with the insurance company that's going to be in there I don't know where the current owner will park for the insurance would it be in that right on the property there's a car park there today when I went through I saw that too um I mean I don't mind if we allowed parking on one side of the street from Fifth Street South I'm fine with that because that would give that business ample parking but as far as all of um all of Mount Hope Road I think from Fifth Street North up to Sky View having no parking on both sides is a good idea just purely for I mean there's people that walk up there not just drive up there so I just I don't have problems with no parking on both sides from Fifth Street up but from Fifth Street down they could uh they could park down there that would give plenty of parking I like that I think that's a nice concession to the business owner assuming that they would come and would say yes we want parking I like that idea too I really do I think it solves some problems with that steep hill and sight lines and things but it allows the business to at least have a place for customers to come in because it could change to something else you know nothing right yeah says it'll stay Insurance forever and the parking will be on the commercial side of the street there and then it'll switch over past sky view when you out parking again com remember Henry do you mean parking on one side north of fifth no no no so from the the corner up it would be parking on the right hand side y then it would stop there'd be no parking on either side of that street until you got up past sky view we want this proposal oh I got you but parking allowed on the commercial side south of fifth assuming that's South that track yes got Direction so what we do is we'll prepare revised exhibit and we'll send that out to um adjacent property owners and then invite them yeah uh to your June 20th meeting that's okay we're all good yeah yeah all right I like it and you guys have what you need from us can we can revise it okay super thank you um moving on to the compensation study Mr meric thank you thank you mayor and Council so this is a progression from our um initial work session that kind of went into how the city's compensation study was initially built in 2013 so I'm going to Breeze through um a couple of these slides related to um how we got here but again 16 full-time employees we do have a collect of bargaining unit um and so what we're excuse me uh the compensation plan doesn't cover our part-time folks one of the new pieces of information that we added uh we included an organizational chart so here you can see um our full-time staff in addition to what's uh our seasonal staff and then we have some couple part we have part-time in uh the city clerk's office uh fire is obviously all part-time then we have some custodial and seasonal in public Public Services I have one question so as we grow so the the firefighter do you know their cap number is it 23 or 25 for how many firefighters they take on uh there isn't a limit there isn't a limit okay so they just kind of I think right now we're at 32 oh okay oh so the regular the firefighters at 20 so they're we're feel well covered in the city at this point yeah so there the fire there's firefighters 20 the officers are an additional okay so they're not included in any of that 20 number okay thanks uh we went over the goals but uh I think one of the pieces that is U important to remember is the pay Equity compliance and that um the system that we build needs to be tough enough to withstand variations where we aren't going to be found to be out of pay Equity compliance um and so really what that means in the simplest form is you can't just change one piece to the entire program you have to make sure that everything is Equitable throughout the entire Compensation Program um and so when you look at someone's pay grades or more significant grades if you make significant adjustments you really have to make them across the board uh so that they're consistent with one another I'm going to skip through the pay Equity uh the the pay grades again that's a function of the job CL classification that we designed for that position so based on their minimum qualifications uh their supervisory U functions budgetary and purchasing decisions how they interact with the council and Implement policy work Direction and so on and then just their overall position requirements and job duties is going to be a function and there's several different programs out there that grade positions we use the uh the safe system uh that was developed by Springstead which is now Baker Tilly um one of the the key pieces and it's we really kind of keep pushing on this and uh I talked to the collective bargaining uh Union or the union employees this week about it as well as the department heads is this concept of pay range um we have a step system and it's some sometimes it can be difficult to kind of put together but the range is really the minimum and the max so the the basement and the roof of the you know of the structure and so when we talk about adjusting the pay range the stuff in between is is really what we're proposing is to be based on budget and Market Etc but the the range that you're adjusting is what we're suggesting is a range it's an adjustment to the minimum and and the maximum and not necessarily an adjustment to an individual employees pay uh because the study that was done was a study based on the ranges in our peer cities not on pay of individual employees in our peer cities is that ring true to everyone okay um again so this slide kind of matches it up it looks at the range and not the position pay in this example of the finance director and so market analysis of our peer cities kind of looking at the primarily the West Metro uh located on the edge of the metropolitan area uh we also added some additional data looking at population uh the number of full-time employees and the number of new home permits in 2018 uh just to kind of give you a flavor of how we compare um to the cities involved in the study uh so our existing pay grades so here you can see for our full-time employees the number of positions that we have and you can see like public services Tech 2 and three we have uh two Folks at those positions in addition to the administrative assistant now we'll use this uh study in in our negotiations with the Union but as it relates to immediate Council decisions um it's not going to impact the union and that their pay is subject to the collective bargaining agreement which Council eventually approves uh but this isn't in any way a kind of a precursor to negotiations with them we want to re respect that process so this is that pay range system or our pay system and so you can see here that uh if you look at the grades and then you look at the steps there's a correlation of you know each step is 2.75% and there it's a the same increases going down to grade and so as you go from grade 1 to grade 20 they're all incremental and so it's it's it's kind of like a it's a puzzle piece if you pull one of them out it's not going to work you won't be able to put the whole thing together again and so that's why it's important to look at the entire system instead of just pulling out one number um so what we're working on is really frankly eliminating the step system as it relates to the exempt employees and we do have to respect the the upcoming negotiations for the the uh Union folks but we're really trying to to push on this idea of the Open Range uh where we establish the Min minimum excuse me and the maximum pay so you can here see what that looks like for a 5.1% range adjustment not to be confused with a 5.1% adjustment for someone's individual pay and so we put together some sample slid so if you look at this current employee this is an example of someone who would be at grade 10 if they were making just under 61,000 you can see the range identified in the minimum and the maximum and that's would be the current pay the council would agree to adjust the range you wouldn't necessarily be increasing that employees pay you'd be increasing the minimum and maximum uh and then that pay increase in this instance would be subject for 2020 to budget collective bargaining process any number of factors that want wanted to be included on an annual basis and so what we're really trying to get at here is our existing system is kind of is more mechanical where a step is 2.75 and then we've used the calculator that's on the Minnesota or excuse me Minneapolis federal reserve banks website that indicates inflation and so we've stuck those two numbers into the machine and it pops out 2.75 and let's say inflation is 2% 4.75 and and I think that has worked traditionally because you know we've had some bandwidth in our budget to accommodate that and we've had a smaller staff uh but frankly as we grow and as budget and constraints grow tighter uh we're not going to be able to function with a system that can kick out a 5 to 6% budget increase and to the contrary there could be times where you the agreement with the union and um the exempt employees you want to provide a 3.5% increase but the Step is only 2.75 and there was no inflationary increase and so we're this system we think promotes the idea of being flexible and reacting to what the market is what the budget is what uh the needs of the city are rather than what two calculators tell you the increase should be and so we think that this reflects that and so what we're suggesting or recommending to the council is um similar to Spring saids findings adjusting the pay range again that's the minimum and the maximum pay um for each grade by 5.1% the consideration of the actual pay increases would be incorporated into the annual budget so we'd propose something as we do with a whole list of other things within the budget have the council provide some feedback the future pay range so again that's the minimum and the maximum we would use that CPI calculator to determine how that minimum and how that maximum should be adjusted but eliminate the step system so the built-in 2.75% in a year it might end up being the 2.75% but then it's a factor of organic decision making and not necessarily a reflection of this is what the the step says and this is what the CPI says um now that I should I I should note that the collective bargaining unit may want a step system and we're going to have to work through that and figure out what system applies to them um but we we can't operate into into two systems I do think that there is a that on the plus side to the open range system I think it frankly sets out a first step towards working towards a performance pay system um we're not prepared to build the performance pay system right now I think that will take a lot of work and we want to be really thoughtful with it but I'm not going to try to whip up something within the next couple months we want to see what's out there kind of build it from within and really have a hearty discussion on that but this is kind of the first step to providing some type of um performance standard or metrics for like how to how to grate how people should get performance um pay and then the final piece is there are there are two position positions one being the building official and the second being the utility bilding clerk so when the the ranges were um compared with pure cities there are two positions these two that were outside of they over 10% as far as range difference and so rather to my point of you can't just involve in an individ or move an individual piece without kind of wrecking the whole system when you're when the range is that great great of a difference uh the the result would end up being to move them up in a pay grade and so what we're suggesting is and um I'll be talking about it later in my city manager updates but putting together a budget amendment along with a whole other list of things um but there's about a $2,000 general fund impact to move forward with adjusting those grades for those positions and so in an act of kind of good faith to try to move forward with that we're suggesting that that be done as of July 1st and adjust their paid grades with the requisite pay increase so I'm happy to answer any questions on any of these items or areas that I didn't cover so as you and I have talked I mean I like I like this approach a lot with the pay ranges um eliminating the steps for all the reasons that you stated about flexibility and you know our budgeting um so I support all the recommendations the one I just want to make sure I understand is a little bit of the logistics of it so let's say we go ahead and we approve these range adjustments when would they be effective so like kind of walk me through kind of the into when would we budget when would that take effect when it would would it actually impact employees sure so the impact would be January 1st of 2020 okay um the discussion would be a a function of the 2020 budget process so okay I think it's the I want to say the first meeting in August we excuse me come with a preliminary budget okay and so we'll go over you know law enforcement fire we'll have a section on personnel and let's you know we'll pick x% uh for the increase for the exempt employees I would show you what the impact is to the general fund okay um if you need want some more information we can put that together but then as all the items within that 2020 budget bucket are reviewed there's going to be some that you're like we need to add more here take off some there and then as we as as the council sets the preliminary Levy in September that becomes kind of the you can't raise it you can only lower that and then when you adopt the 2020 budget in December then the next step is to go ahead and then you know um have those implemented as a part of the budget in January of 2020 so that's kind of what I thought it would be I just want to make interested now the one off to that is so I'm I'm suspecting sometime in June we'll have our first negotiating session with the collective bargaining unit and so that's kind of a whole another ball of wax um we'll negotiate um the council has the and we'll make use of it we have the opportunity to have closed sessions so I can update you on the uh negotiating process and we'll start to talk about um pay and compensation and how that's done um but the and I the message I gave to the Union group uh last week was we wanted pay to be a reflection of what we mutually agreed to based on value and affordability and budget and not a reflection of the system and so right now we have a system that in place where we have a number and the system tells us how how to get there we want to come up with a number and then build a system around that number and so your phone on that's a rarity okay but the pay is a is only one part of the negotiation process there's you know insurance and paid leave pieces to it's all going to be a function of um you know negotiations frankly um and so that'll two will be effective January of 2020 it's just going to take a different route to get there okay all right thank you was this put together in 2013 the the one that the current system so the yes the current what you see the whole step step I know it was a painstaking effort the current step in grade but then the the whole system has been increased by uh the Consumer Price Index on an annual basis right and so what happens if you look at let's say step six of grade one that 37,000 under like the traditional method you would say well we're going to just add 5.1% to every one of those Steps step one through nine but the data doesn't support that the data says that your minimum the 32,000 is 5.1% too low and the 40,000 is five 5% too low it doesn't suggest that every step within the system is 5.1% off and so that's what we're trying to really kind of get at here is I think building a system upon that logic frankly puts councils in a position where you don't want to do salary studies because it's like the the the information that you got isn't reflective of the adjustment that you're making and you end up with if you do a 5.1% adjustment and a 2.75 step you're talking about 7 to 8% increases every time you do a compensation study if you're falling behind a little bit um and I don't think anyone is asking for that even though probably everyone would accept that as a result um Brian you wouldn't but yes to your question this was the grades and the steps were established in 2013 the the numbers it's it's been evolving just from CPI and is 5.1% low is that what I'm hearing the I'll go back to this so the the minimum and maximum for grade 10 they're saying that the minimum and the maximums for the entire system should be adjusted by 5.1% so that means you the ceiling and the in the basement are both adjusted up but the the middle and that's you're at the minimum or the max the the middle stays the same and frankly even if so if you were at the max in this situation so if let's say you being paid 67,900 that doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to jump to the 71,000 you're going to jump to the percentage that the council agrees within their budget and that could be 5.1% but it also could be three and a half or four depending upon what your comfort level is yeah so um so just that I'm understanding this the pay range grid would go away and the ceiling and the floor would go up by that 5% for the exempt employees correct correct for what the exempt so the it's the department heads uh the Public Services superintendent and myself and then while we would certainly talk about this in the budgeting process I know we've got a number of folks who are at the ceiling of their pay grade those folks would potentially go up 5.1% plus whatever increase we decide next year no no okay so they stay so if you use this example they're at the 67 945 y they'll go up to whatever percent increase the council agrees to okay okay it's just that the ceiling is higher okay if you if you um appro the increase at 5.1% yes they'd be at the max but uh that won't always be the case and then we would review the minimum and the maximum every year correct and get a little bit away from those folks who are at the ceiling of their pay grade but potentially well there could be let's say there's somebody who's 2% below the pay uh below max pay and the council agrees uh within the budget process to increase the salaries by 3% they're going to their ceiling is going to be at 2% they'll only be able to go up to 2% to 3% it's only going to be for the folks that are in the middle of the range okay so they'll be capped you can't make any more than the maximum within your range gotcha thank you I think you know it's the framework is essentially to provide a framework forward make sure that we're paying our employees competitively right the range reflects the competition their cities right got it a minimum and a high depending upon all of those things you listed experience responsibilities etc etc right and so we want to make sure our employees are within that range we want to make sure the goal posts are the correct ones right and our employees are within that appropriately Brent I have a couple questions so um have you looked at other cities on our list that we compared with or went to um for their information about performance pay do any of those cities do that uh I know Victoria has the Open Range I'm not familiar with well I know Bonia and Delano have are on the step uh step system I'm not familiar with the other cities okay I'm just curious as to how people have found the success or the um you know I guess problems with it if they've gone to that so um if Victoria I mean do you talk with Victoria very often do you know how theirs has been going well they don't have performance PID oh I'm sorry they're doing what we're suggesting here is an open range system oh okay and I and I I when I can we can proceed with the questions I'm not proposing a performance paid but we model potentially go to it I'm just what I'm saying to the council is I'm interested in studying it and talking to the employees about it and the council about it and seeing does it work for us or not but I'm not suggesting that even within a year's time that we'd have something to present to you um it's not something that I could write on my own and I it's not something that I'm willing to like make a mistake on I want it to be really good and I want complete Buy in from the group so that we have something that we think really works well um but to your specific point I there's no cities on here that I'm aware of that use performance pay um only cities that I'm aware of that you it or one of them is in a city one is Chan Hass and one is Carver County um but I'm not and I know Waconia and Delano have a step system and not an open range Victoria has the open range okay so just to make sure I'm clear on the Open Range so that allows you I mean maybe I'm confused here so if you have the Open Range how do you decide then what percentage you're giving as the raise the council decides the council decides that alone okay it it and then frankly the council decides on a step as well okay um the difference is it provides more flexibility in that that so I'll go back to the steps um this shows it so if if I was on let's go to grade 20 I was at step one and I was going to go to step two right now the current system really coni confines the council and I believe staff and the employees like to 2.75% so we don't talk about half steps or quarter steps it's 2.75% and whatever the inflation is and it's a it's a system we could come back to you and say we think we can afford 3.25% well the system right now doesn't have a way to let us do that and so we'd come to the council and say we we think we can afford 3.25% here's the here's the budget impact and you as the council would say uh that's too heavy or oh we'd like to we'd like to put more into that we'd like to have that be 3.75 so it's it really provides the council with the not that you don't have the complete Authority but you you're not bound by a system other than what the minimum and the maximum are so you can make it you know 1% 5% 4% 4.25 and it's not a it's not based on a calculation so there has to be some more thought put into it instead of just saying it's the because for since 2013 it's been whatever it's been a step and whatever inflation says and frankly there hasn't really been a whole lot of discussion on salaries in since 2013 so for the past five years and so that can be a really good thing right or it could be a very anxiety written thing like why aren't we talking about you know a budget factor that you know is a big piece of our operational costs and that does it presuppose that we shouldn't be investing in that it just means that this system provides more flexibility determine what the amounts are rather than sticking it into a calculator but there probably have to be a higher degree of um analysis over what that number is and what the council supports within that okay um I have one more question then when we're talking about the union um and our Union contracts so historically we have matched the union with our pay for non-union employees um if we start looking at having two different systems for Union and non-union is that what I'm hearing you could do that I you you could have two different systems but the results could be the same okay I just if they're if they're not matching we have employees working on one system a pay and another working with the Union because I and I don't know exactly what the union is going to come after um and looking at this year but I just don't want to create this sort of a divide that right one section's getting this and then the union section is getting this the minimum and the maximums will be the same it's just a matter of how you get there right and so the yes the minimum maximum but when we're talking about in the middle I just and moving people along with different raises I just want to be really careful of not creating divides within employees within the city because they're on two different two different sections I guess so I guess I'm not clear well when and like I said I'm I'm just trying to weed through this so to make sure I'm understanding so we're talking about the union and what they're going to be negotiating for are they going to be the union pay is going to stay on the the step system and they're not going to the open range or we're going to look at doing the same for everyone we don't know I mean it's that's part of the negotiation right I and this is total speculation but I the union may want to stay on the step because it's more guaranteed for their the union employees that they're going to get this and this and this it's that kind of that safety we're going to do this and this and this so how are we going to handle if if they're coming back one way and and they don't budge and then we have a different idea for the non-un employees for me for me the as long as the results the same the system I mean if if the council agrees that you you're okay with a 3.5% increase to your point there's we're probably not in an environment where you're going to do something one three 3 five for one group and four for the other group it's going to both are going to be 3.5 okay um they'll just have two systems to to get there um and you could turn around and say well we are going to adopt whatever the the union has you're not bound to to that it say you have you're going to have more constraints within that but I part of your question is I don't know the answer to to what they're going to propose um and it's one thing to look like I said at minimum maximum but there's a whole lot of space in between there and and it's people's pay it's their income it's their livelihood so um I don't want to just think about the max because it can take many many years to get to just the max so I want to make sure that um not just for the current employees but employees that we may hire that we are in a good range period in the in the middle there also Glen all right did you get what you need from us you have the direction just supporting your recommendations at least to move so so the next steps is we got to negotiate with the Union right if I heard from the council like you know the 5.1% range adjustment was totally like you just weren't there no but this isn't something that I feel compelled or I don't think we because we're not making any changes right now to bring to the conso and say let's officially adopt the 5.1 right you will see um on the June 20th agenda a recommendation within the budget resolution to okay um adjust the um 2019 budget to accommodate the pay grade changes for those two positions uh but beyond that um to council me member Mock's point I think it we'd be prudent to see how negotiations play out and see how these two can be married together okay I'm glad to hear that that um getting in compliance with those two employees is coming forward I think that we need to be there so yeah absolutely I'm glad that we're not wasting any time on that y all right um moving on to the recreation partnership survey Mr meric So based on excuse me our last discussion regarding um the our Recreation partnership with chasa I've drafted five sample questions just to get the conversation started uh we would like to try to keep it short we have found when we've done survey questions or reached out to Residents the more questions we do the less likely they are to fill it out so we wanted to keep it somewhat short um but um open to as much feedback as you have there the five questions are as follows I find Value in the city of Carver's partnership for Resident rates at the chesa community center Town cor and curling Center you can see all the way from very much disagreed to very much agree number two I find Value in community events put on in the city of Carver such as the vehicle Fair movies in the Park concerts in the park and so on number three is what community events would you like to see organized that currently are not being offered uh number four where do you prefer to attend Recreation program offerings such as yoga art classes kids park programming and so on and this kind of gets into um the number of programs that are held in the city so do they prefer them to be in Carver uh in chasa does it matter to them or do they not attend these event or sign up for these events and then finally what Recreation programs would you register for if offered so again these are to get conversation started if you have additions deletions suggestions happy to take them so when you're talking about survey this would be like a Survey Monkey like Erin previous okay um just my thoughts of it for number two and this is word smithing because it's me um I thought it would be important to say take place in the city of Carver instead of put on in the city of Carver just so that's just a little bit more clear and more consistent with question four regarding location good call good call um I like your alignment my um I also thought again because this is Survey Monkey and if we're pushing this out on Facebook and Facebook has a broad reach is there any metric that we can tell with survey mon as to where the people live or should that be a question do you live in the city of Carver yeah well to my the last time I did one I maybe defer to eron but I think you can we can require an address be put in an address or a zip code address yeah let's you can filter out with just the haror proper addresses because obviously the postal addresses out in the highlands say 5315 if you do 55315 that's gets into the township areas yeah does it make sense though um if we're looking at saying put or I'm sorry what was your wording for community events that take place uh take place take place in city of Carver you know we do pull people from the townships that come in is that valid information I mean if we're bringing some of these events are free but some of them are paid for so is it is it a valid question to to see who's coming from where and if they're coming from the townships into Carver for these things as far as dist beinging them um well if you're on let's say you're on Facebook and you come across it and I live in the caror highlands there's a lot of people there who identify with I live in Carver and so I could see them filling out the survey but they may also come to Carver and take place or I'm sorry take part in the vehicle fair or go to the movies in the park so I don't disagree with that the the only basis for for my offering just the city of Carver is I've I've had at least 10 conversations with dalren Township residents since the partnership where they've been disappointed that the city's resident rates don't apply to them when they go to the chasa facilities and we go you know they have a Carver address and I explain the property tax function Etc so um property tax 101 I'm not opposed to that it's whatever the council's prerogative is I just wanted to provide you with that perspective was just a thought divide the results right yeah I think as long as we include that additional question of what's your address do you live in Carver I would probably prefer to get an address um but then we can kind of split the results because I think what we're getting at here is really we're looking for this feedback is to should we do this again in 2020 yeah right and what should we do should it just be the reduced rate the resident rates or should we also include programming and if programming is it and at the risk of being really harsh just for our purposes it's great if delren Township is in favor of this for for us but we're paying for it so that's true yeah that's you know but I don't think it hurts if we have that qualifying question of where do you live what's your address in there it doesn't hurt them pushing it out on Facebook and having the potential for other folks would Survey Monkey allow us to put a map where then they could kind of click on which location they live in because some might want the anonymous part of the survey or just be quicker to kind of do a zone that they live in versus simp I don't monkey doesn't have that capability as far as I know well and if we've done it before where we've asked for an address people fill it out yeah it won't prohibit someone from the township filling it out it'll just it their address will be on there and so just know they're where they're from or they could put an address that's in the city and not live in this I mean there there's some scientific functions to this that you lose by going through Survey Monkey and as long as we know that going into it we're fine okay can I also ask that in question number one and number two we start with positive go down to negative in the order yep wait what I noticed that too very much I want to start with very much agree oh oh a first option okay not very much disagree yes and the objective is to get over 300 of these Aaron are there other questions that we think I mean we have five here I don't think that's too many if there was something that we wanted to add do you think there's other questions we should be putting in here yes in addition well the one that I thought of in addition to the residency question the other one that I thought of is a question of um use how many times in the past year have you participated in you know golfing at the Town course so we do we did get numbers about who is getting resident rates right we got that data I'm not sure we got good data on how many people are participating in the events am my R maybe I don't know if there's a good way to I think we got the best that they could but I think this could identify the folks and maybe maybe let us dissect it a little bit like Joy says she's been to the community center zero times in the past year so of course she's not for this right you know I pay a lot money to go to Lifetime but that doesn't mean I go there a whole lot well I pay not so much for the community center and joy is my witness I don't go there that often no that's a that's a fair question right how often have I participated in utilizing the partnership or participating events in the last and I don't know how we phrase that I'm not necessarily any so are you looking at trying to get at programming here or the or the resident rates yes just if they've benefited from the do you want them to be separate questions or question that maybe has uh the choices of weekly monthly quarterly no I think it's a yes or no Simplicity what do you think is yes or no have you participated in oh just want we we have a membership but I don't know if I'd want to answer how many times I've used it in the yes so no I see what you're saying okay y have you used the town course Community Center so is that what you mean yeah just part so have you benefit benefit yeah um but to answer your question programming or I don't I don't know that I feel strongly about that one way or another if that's one question or two based on the data that I think we heard from the chasa folks like I don't think there's a question that folks are at least using the resident rates I think the big bigger question for the council is who's you who's registering for the programs yeah because that's kind of the add-on who's showing up at movies in the park and but how how do you take that count of numbers for movies in the park so they can't give us that number so then we're going to ask them have you participated in any of the following in the last year or how I would I would probably gear it toward have you registered for appro does the you know the vehicle fair and the you know the community events pieces sometimes you do it there's a whole ton of people sometimes you do it there's nobody well you don't get an exact number either I think we should be really specific like have you registered for a program that's taking place in the city of Carver y right because that's what we're getting getting at cuz I could do yoga in the park but it's not here right correct how do we feel about asking for age ranges too are you 18 to whatever 40 to whatever together that you want to get out of it I don't know I just it we don't have to you're programming towards certain groups or you know I guess it for me it's kind of just taking a look at what age demographic is using it the most then yeah you do know if it's if I'm you know 25 and I go to all the you know classes here or the ones up at the school that they have or I don't know no we're asking pretty open questions like what community events would you like to see organize what Recreation programs would you register for I don't necessar because everybody who takes it is going to be 18 or older right you know you would assume um probably predominantly female probably you know we know the demographics our commun community so we can guess as to who that is I don't if you guys feel I talk into it I don't feel strongly that I don't feel strongly either way just thought I'd throw it out there Simplicity yes Glen we've heard that and you will hear it because a lot of people if it's the longer you get the more detailed you get the more they just space it up right fill it out keep it short short 10 question or less survey some hang out and four this will take you two minutes to answer that is nice to have at the beginning when I do take a survey I like to know that you're going to have 10 questions or you're going to have four questions or you're going to have 7 I a survey that said it'll take me an hour and I was like Del yeah sorry care what it is we've had a longer discussion about this than it should take to take correct okay are you good with the direction on that okay um all right number five the Strategic plan Action Plan update Mr Meritt thank you may and Council so this is our first update on our strategic plan action plan um so just wanted to kind of give you some background on what we've done since we met and adopted the study or the uh plan um as it relates to funding partners for the certified Le Levy we've held the open house uh We've also submitted a grant to the DNR for funding um reached out to local legislators so I think we've done quite a bit um later on this summer I do want to kind of come back to the council and kind of regroup if you will and kind of put together a memo on what we've done and then kind of develop next stepss uh the session's over um you know what's kind of our more detailed action plan for the levy as we move forward we can wait you do you want us to wait yeah we've got it all in front of I don't have anything oh okay identify Redevelopment opportunities in the downtown spring of 2020 yeah that we haven't done anything on that's true I think one uh was related to franchise fees so uh related to that and your long-term plan you're going to be seeing some data from Steve McDonald they uh did some research with some other cities and so you'll have an idea of what they collect um basically provide some data we'll also bring Larry Harris into that discussion so you can get an idea of kind of the framework um again that's not nothing that you have to adopt but it's providing you the information should you choose to pursue it um you'll also see the userfriendly format to report Finance information we put that as a Target when we have our monthly Finance meeting so we've started the process for that um we found some examples that we think will work a little bit better uh We've included technology and our long-term financial plan uh We've assembled all our all of our information and we've sent it over to ABDO so they're starting to process that and then we have developed and a you'll see that in the uh there's a sheet right after uh these action plan updates within the packet we created a form we call it our CIP template where it provided all the information and then a ranking of priority whether it's a basic or critical but one of the things that I I'm really happy with that is in the past where we've done a long-term plan we've frankly focused a lot on the numbers which is important within the capital plan I don't think we've done spent enough time with the Council on telling you what the projects are within the plan even though they're five years away uh we want to take some more dedicated time to talk to the council about um what are the components that lead you to the numbers that you're seeing and so if there are uh priority changes that you'd like us to make then we have the opportunity to do that I don't know if we've created enough space uh for the council to do that so we're looking forward to that uh the community survey uh connected with decision resources and so they'll be coming out to your August 5th work session just to give you an overview of the um Community survey process uh they are used by nearly every city within the Metro area and I'm sure there are other groups out there but they're willing to come out here and pro present a proposal and answer questions um at no charge at this point to the to the council um other the other areas uh we haven't really gotten into um we have been talking about them at our department head meetings on a on a weekly basis and so uh we anticipate having some more updates with you uh by the middle of summer on some of these uh target areas that are especially in the spring of 2019 so happy to answer any questions on the Action Plan update so we do have the oh um the requir consistency of amenities Light Signs for development then it does say spring of 2019 is there anything that's been worked on or how that's going we haven't started a development since the adoption of it so moving forward yes so the song concept that we see tonight will probably be a good place for us to start but most of the developments that we're seeing right now are like phase two or final platting so they're through preliminary at that point which means their lighting and signage is usually determined by then okay and then and to to add to that so Dan has been working with his group on creating kind of a standard detail of some of these so like paint colors type of retaining wall block Etc so that we can build that into kind of one packet and hand it to the developer and then say like this is what we require for street lights but more into the detail not kind of looking back and say what was the paint color that we used for this bench or etc etc okay and then for um the senior living facility we had talked with them about the lighting features and they said that they were very open to it have we pushed that with them so that that's what's going to be happening there yeah so the lights in the parking lot will be the decorative one similar to Levi Griffin s similar to why uh Levi Griffin the park and ride okay thank you yeah I have a question on that too the consistency of amenities even though it's not the right time in the process can we ask the developers to just consider it um so typically through the information the preliminary PL application there's a sign engine lighting plan so once that's approved it's pretty tough to go back since it's bound with a resolution invested land rights so I would say it's not typical that we could go back at that point even if it's favorable to us I mean I realize we if it's favorable to us I think okay I realize we can't we can't you know uh require them to but if we could just ask if they would consider so that again I think if I just may sure it that's changing their entire plans that they've had in place you know how long it takes to go from concept to final that they've had in plan for a really long time and I think it makes us look like we don't have our stuff together that we're saying oh wait there's remember what we approved right I think true it's just part of knowing that we're growing and you know we're evolving and wanting things to be consistent it's just kind of a growth pain but I'm also thinking just very little minor tweaks within a project like it's a green lamp post instead of a gray one I mean I what would the implications be let's just say we asked a developer to say hey can would you consider this decorative lighting and for some reason they say yes what would that entail then then to have that go in so it depends on where they are going out for bid um DR Horton on Monroe they're doing the decorative lighting so I don't think we're going to drive around and see five different types of Lights depending on who the provider is they typically have one or two that they can offer to the community so if it's XL or mvec but in places that we know are going to be prominent like Mineral Drive we have push for the decorative lighting I wouldn't say that anything that's come in in the past couple weeks has been atrocious by any means like the signs that are going up in oak tree are the stone they're pretty high quality products I'm not really concerned with what people are proposing right now that's good to know that's comforting like do you feel like everything at them Blends together yes okay if there was something that just really stuck out that veered away from us having more of a consistent look is it something where we could still ask them I realize we don't you know have any weight in it or right we typic that too we vet it through preliminary plat we don't want suddenly an orange street light in a neighborhood that's had green typically so it's part of our review it's part of the preliminary plat so something that we look at okay but if there was something that we thought was completely out of line we would address it okay thank you we're all good yep all good all right um I just wanted to say I think this is great I know in the corporate world we do this kind of stuff a lot and the follow-up is generally what's lacking this plan you're definitely not lacking in the follow-up and the same was true two years ago when we did so I think this is really great thanks for continuing to raise this up in front of us um and keep checking in really appreciate it that's good um moving on to the city manager report uh a couple of things so as you know we're getting ready to have the council consider issuing bonds for the 2019 project Commerce Drive the equipment certificate um that'll be coming up at your June 17th meeting Paul Steinman we'll kind of kick off that process uh but as we are going through um our water planning and looking at uh future bonds um we want the we were asking the council to consider adding the million dollars that you would need to construct the well now your alternative would be to not do that and then you'd go out in the spring of 2020 and obtain funds to acquire or to buy the land build the well Etc the downside to that is you'd have to go out for another rating call have Bond counsel so when it when you issue bonds it's probably anywhere from 35 to $50,000 in soft costs and so there's a benefit to combining as many Bond many projects as you can into one issue so um if you don't feel comfortable with adding that we can certainly take it out and let that process develop more uh but it if if uh on the cost side if you feel comfortable enough we'd um have Baker Tilly or what you know as Springstead come out and include that million dollars for the the well construction as well can we get options with that if you if if they do a proposal could they have that that split out or would it be all under one umbrella they split they split each of the the issuances out right but it's you we need to decide either you want to do it or you don't it's not it can't be like an alternate if that's what you're getting at no if they when they bring the the bond issue or the proposal to us do we have to have a decision for them to even bring us the uh the Water Treatment Plant or the the well project or what do you want that what do you want the option to like what are you trying to learn from do we have it as like a instead of all bundled in one could we have that split out and what would be the benefit to that how much extra it would cost to if it's all going to be in one Bond I understand that well or if we take it out to see what how much that will actually cost us well we know how much it'll cost us as far well when you say cost what do you cost of to issue the bond or cost to pay back the million dollars cost to issue the bond so they I can give you a me I could give you an example of what it costs to issue a bond on its own based on past bond issuances between the 35 to 50,000 okay and they're coming on the 17th correct so we need to know by the 17th if we want to have the water well the 17th you could say we want to do everything but the water okay or you could frankly you could decide not to do the equipment certificate as well you I mean you really pot committed to the 2019 project and Commerce Drive because you've you know awarded bids the equipment certificate and the water piece you could say we're just not going to do those but you'll so you'll see everything thing um but it won't they can't they won't be able to split out the cost of the issuance by B like Bond it's going to cost you the same amount of money to do two projects as it does four projects got it so there there I mean the the option is really do you want to borrow the money for the well in this instance or the fire engine and the Public Services equipment those are you know you have choices on all of them but the the equipment certificate and the and the bond piece are the ones that you have the most flexibility on okay thank you B where do we see the first draft of the 2020 budget uh I want to say like early August okay we know what the bond so the that won't include water so we'll do the Enterprise funds later on in the fall okay okay um we have I've already so I started working on the 2020 budget today we have a pretty good idea of our 2020 Debt Service although just based on I'm getting at based on that budget impact memo that Paul styman prepared now we'll find tun those numbers once the actual Bond sale comes in then we'll have the official Levy statement but the the difference on the well side is do you have if you want to get started on that in Earnest this fall um or do you want to wait till the spring and so like as it relates to land one of the things you could we could do is if we found land instead of purchasing it right away depending upon the cost we could enter into a excuse me a purchase agreement that would give us we put a down payment on and give us 3 months months to close or six months to close um it's just a matter of that additional cost to do another Bond sale we're I think we'd be better ahead to just go ahead and include it because it's we know that we need the well um again it's not a decision you need to make tonight but I wanted to at a minimum let you know that we're going to include it if you decide hey you know what we're just we don't have enough information on it you know Dan's working on some other stuff we don't know we don't have land acquired yet we know roughly what it'll cost to construct it and build a wellhouse and the pumps Etc we feel pretty secure about the million dollar number but know I can't be that Cavalier to say oh a million dollars go ahead if you don't you know if you you have to feel comfortable with it um and it'll be a byproduct of or'll be a a product of your rate study consideration um also that'll happen later on we'll get the long-term plan then they'll plug that into a rate analysis and update what we believe um rates are going to or need to be at but you know regardless I mean what we need what we have right now pled we still need we're still going to need a well we're still going to need water treatment um and so these costs are going to be coming it's just a matter of we have time to prepare and plan for them and again The Debt Service on that well portion would come from the utility fee the Utility Fund rates and connection charges correct not prop not no property taxes right okay okay then uh the other item do you have something CL the legislature made some changes to local government Aid so the city annually receives or last year received about 113,000 in local government Aid it's basically money the city can use to defay costs and help support the operation of the system for this the uh the city and based on the legislation we're expecting to receive $35,000 more in local government aid for uh 20120 so that'll be a welcome adjustment was that $35,000 more or 140,000 last year we received how much 114 113 okay was that 35 you said 35,000 more right so it's just 35,000 or is it 35,000 more than 113 so like a whatever that is okay so you didn't do the math for me 14 149 is that what I'm thinking all right thank you yep then uh we're going to be bringing a budget amendment to the council for the council to consider one of the pieces is um those pay grade adjustments but some housekeeping items too related to Southwest Prime um the Council made a decision to fund that we're actually running so we had talked about 15,000 we're actually running between 6 to800 a month so you're probably going to be frankly under 10,000 um but we haven't gotten into the summer month so we are we are going to show a budget amendment for a $10,000 shift rather than the the 15,000 we think we're going to be pretty good at that number uh one of the other items kind of gets into kind of a deep dive into the city finances so and you'll hear this tonight uh during Justin's audit presentation is the city has a fund bance fund balance policy at 50% and so anything between 40 and 50% you take and you move into the special Capital project fund that 10% and so in the the last two years um we've made those adjustments now the related to the legislature the city's been getting small cities account money which is gr money for streets uh Street repair and improvements of about 32,000 which for two years is roughly about 62 63,000 was the number well the Auditors were taking that money and looking at it as a unrestricted use and then showing that as a surplus and that was going into the special Capital fund and so I've asked them to pull that money back out because it it's a restricted use so we can't because we've used a special Capital fund for Prime right for City Hall Etc and so we need to pull that money back out um and so it's going to reduce the amount of what's in our special Capital fund from what we were had been uh looking at as about 120,000 it's going to bring that down to about 60 to 50 60 to 55,000 in that range from memory um so it's it's not money loss but it's not the that Surplus fund or the special Capital isn't isn't as big of a number as we had once thought and then the the final piece that you'll see in there is a so traditionally we've budgeted for Street repairs within the general fund operating so it's aligned within the Public Services budget and so when we started talking about this taking this money from the small City's account that 60,000 we initially had it in this street repair fund and that was sitting kind of by itself and so like we budgeted like 61,000 I think Brian for Street repairs for 2019 so what happens if we spend 55,000 of that um the remaining 6,000 gets absorbed by the general fund and can just be put into the special Capital but sometimes these projects tend to be larger and so what we'd like to do is take that 61,000 and every year transfer that into the street repair fund and so that you can build basically a savings account to do bigger projects um because of Mill and overlay which we kind of tried to switch over from doing the typical um seal coat project are expensive and that way that can combine with the money that we're getting from the state and we can build a fund to maybe handle some of of our streets that need more work rather than having if we get bids that aren't great and we end up only spending 30 of that 61 that way by the end of the year instead of having that absorbed in the general fund it's already and basically the savings account for Street repairs and so I'll explain that in some more detail um through a memo and a budget resolution for your next meeting but just a little preview of of what you can expect to see at your next meeting sounds good any questions um okay moving on to council requests Joy nothing I don't have anything what are they doing on 40 coming into town Excel is working on a gas main so they're doing some soil borings and related work got nothing else the only two things that I wanted to mention um so with the work sessions being taped the one thing that we lose with them being taped is kind of that casual feel which will'll all change on August 1st our first meeting in August when we are back in City Hall and sitting around a conference T room table but I just want want to really encourage these work sessions to continue to be more casual and kind of like what you said this is a work session we're here to discuss this so um I just want to encourage that I know it's just a little bit more Awkward with the separation um but I think all of that's worth it for the transparency and for the folks who are able to who aren't able to make it um or who prefer to work from home that would be all of them since nobody's here um and the only other thing that I wanted to mention is coming into the busy summer season um I get it if folks aren't able to make commission meetings I think something um that the new kind of pay structure where we're not getting paid per meeting would allow us is just a little bit more flexibility so for whatever reason you aren't able to make a commission meeting or something else that you've been assigned shoot Brent an email and maybe he can send out and I've asked him to send out an email to the group of um Planning Commission next Thursday Glenn can't make it can anybody else go um I think it would be great to give us some exposure to different communities and also give us some line of sight to the Commissioners um and I just think it feel that it's really important that those folks know that somebody is there to kind of provide the councel and guidance so certainly those meetings can take place without us but I think it's just good to have somebody there so that's all I had I'll make a motion to adjourn I'll second that great we have a motion by council member Mach and a second by council member mcnight all in favor say I I I oppos motion passes thank you I'm GNA run to the bathroom