I help I it [Music] all right all right let's call this meeting to order um item number one we have the recreation partnership Mr Merck thank you mayor and Council uh before I get started I want to introduce uh some of our friends from the city of chasa uh to my right we have uh Matt poosi uh Marshall or Matt the city administrator in chasa uh Marshall gra who's the Parks and Recreation director and Aon link uh who is a recreation programmer with the city of chasa um and the the great thing about this evening is we're not proposing anything or we're not trying to get you to buy anything uh it's just really a review it's a review of the program to date and we're really looking to have a conversation about how the program and partnership have been going opportunities for growth opportunities to take a pause and say is this really what we want to do and so we've put together some slides to kind of encourage that conversation and uh our friends from the city of Chas are here to kind of um add to that conversation and answer questions you have on uh specific program details uh so really getting into the elements of the partnership I like to think of this in kind of three buckets so uh the first bucket was the resident rates for facilities uh second being Community event support um so think of vehicle fair and then uh third is programming and Carver so that's a traditional uh you'd have a kickboxing class you know any facility in the city of Carver proper uh um chasa Parks and Recreation staff would facilitate that so those are the three primary buckets uh in October 2015 the Carver or the city of Carver and city of chasa uh adopted anou for $65,000 a year uh getting into those three buckets uh the primary agreement benefits were Carver residents who would receive resident uh reciprocity at chesa recreational facilities uh 12 Recreation programs would be located in Carver per quarter and the recreation staff would facilitate six community events per year in Carver um one of the key pieces that kind of influenced where we are today uh is in February 2016 village hall closed and that was the city's primary program space uh from November 2015 uh to December 2016 Chas only charged Carver 32,000 for services uh the fee was reduced by 1 half in consideration of kind of developing the partnership and then some of the issues that we had related to available facilities in the community so we came back to the council and amended theou in November of 2017 um really as a representation of reducing that quantity of TW 12 um sessions per quarter programs per quarter uh realizing that we weren't really going to have the opportunity to do that without a dedicated space uh such as the gymnasium for programming and then in the fall of 2018 just based on the amount of turnover that was happening with both City councils in Carver and chasa uh wanted to really continue a negotiation into 2019 to let the new leadership have that conversation and um create a space where we wouldn't have to really hone in on trying to get something done before the end of the year um so a little bit of the community center just some statistics and this gets into um resident rates for facilities so that's that first bucket um 354 Community Center memberships 956 total members so if you think of uh Carver as a population of right around 5,000 we're pretty close to 1 in5 uh 570 Unique Individuals um approximately 51,000 in Resident rate discounts provided through the partnership in 2018 and then you can see the the uh amenities that are provided at the community center before I I move any further I just wanted to open up to the council um if there are any specific questions on the community center and how that is managed on a day-to-day basis um for our folks from chasa otherwise I'll move on uh chasa Town course kind of self-evident what those um amenities are and how that relates to this the partnership again another amenity chasa curing Center uh then getting into our community events and this is an area that's kind of a I think an ongoing challenge and also an ongoing opportunity um the movies in the park and the concerts in the park are hit and miss mostly Miss on account of it's uh we've had some challenges getting people there it might have might be um an event that's kind of come and gone and so we're looking at new opportunities to get people in the downtown primarily uh creating that sense of community getting neighbors to meet new new neighbors new new people to the community meeting people that have been been here for many years uh the recreation staff also helps out with the Bike Rodeo and the Fire Department open house um programming is a is a significant piece to this and it's the third and final bucket uh one of the big successes has been the open gym uh at Carver Elementary and I think it it does speak to when you have a facility that's available um it's going to provide a high enrollment number but we have had uh quite a few programs canceled due to low enrollment or or nobody signing up and so you can uh see here some of the programs or the number of programs that were offered we don't have the detailed report but if there are specific questions uh we can answer that um so this really just gets into next steps we're really looking to have a conversation here tonight with the council uh with Carver staff chasa staff and look at opportunities to improve uh this is really a kind of a 100% resident driven opportunity so should we look at possible engagement strategies whether it's a survey or other opportunities to reach out to Residents what do they like uh what do they want to see more of what do they want to see less of and then determine kind of a working plan to put together either uh some form of a future agreement or just to to verify uh that the council wants to proceed with this partnership um so with that I'm happy to answer any questions so I'll start so we um boy back in January or February at the resident Advocate meeting we kind of broached this topic and folks overwhelmingly like the partnership like being able to go to the community center and pay resident rates um we also talked about I of course don't have my notes in front of you but I kind of the general themes were they liked it um the programming in Carver was a nice to have it wasn't a need to have which was some of kind of the overwhelming broad brush Strokes um and it was generally a really positive discussion I I appreciate it I like being able to go to the community center and pay resident rates um the agreement from years ago um we moved to Carver thinking that that agreement was still in place except it hadn't been so it's nice to kind of to bring that back so yeah I mean what stood out for me in the data here was that 20% of our residents are members at the community and that's pretty significant so obviously that's been a big draw the community is using it we're also using the town course we're using the curling Center I think that yeah the only question for me is the activities that take place in Carver I'd be interested to know out of some of the programs that were dropped because of low enrollment if there's a certain theme of type of program that maybe we say yeah let's maybe not offer those anymore but those that did have um people signing up if there's a theme there that we say yeah we probably want to continue those but maybe not some of these others and limit it I don't know or we get some feedback from a survey kind of thing that seems to be the unknown I have a question when we're looking at the years so we're looking at 16 programs offered nine that didn't happen and as it goes through so when we have the open gym up at um the elementary school is that counted in these numbers oh good question believe so open gy yoga different Outdoor Adventure opportunities but I'd have to look back at that and kind of just caught up on some of these numbers and Tessa is supervisor pulling numbers together okay so the reason that I asked that is that if if 16 of those are kind of the open gym or things that are happening out of the gym I don't think you have to sign up for open gym I think you can just show up right I just it that if it was well if you track the days you know we've got it on this date and this many a month but um so I do question to about the programing I think the partnership for uh the community center and all the other amenities in chasa are really nice it's been obvious that the town has really taken advantage of that um when we do look at having you know in 201 half almost half of the programs that are cancelled I think that's saying that there's something that's being missed here um whether it's the type um I know some of these Partnerships come out of working with caror County Parks and some of theirs um so maybe we need to really evaluate the program part of this now we will have obviously the city hall opening um but that might take a little bit to get rolling to because that's August your book will already be out by that point so it won't really be coming around until 2020 that we'd have an opportunity to be holding real events out of there so I I guess I'm not I'm not sold on the programming if we can't see that this is is really going to you know keep rolling I am sold on the partnership with for the community center and things like that so I mean maybe that's something that we should talk about about what that looks like and what costs are associated and how what percentage we of this 51 to 65 whatever it is is applied towards having that partnership and what percentage of that we consider as going towards programming I think one opportunity that talked about is especially now with lot the CH welcome to Carver Matt about those papers Matt and a lot ofs comb next few years is over the the next 20 years you guys will probably have more facility development than we do dri of discuss it's my understanding in the past too that we when we looked at the programming piece of it we were kind of marketing it and positioning it specific to Carver and so it may have looked like it was only for Carver residents and that's one of the things we changed up this last time was integrating the programming throughout the activity guide more um in the hopes that it could also attract attract more residents to some of the programming here in Carver as well I can speak just a little bit to the Carver County Partnerships where some of the outdoor adventure programming I know that is a change for this summer um that they have we were canceling some of these programs with low numbers but the school district was also offering the same like archery so then they were canceling because of low numbers so this summer I know um together the school district as well but offering the they're taking registration we're taking registration but hopefully with we'll have hopefully this summer we may see some of these that have been and my comments are just that the um partnership where we can extend these services to our residents I think is very favorable um it glad to hear that in addition to the city of Carver reaching out that you guys are reaching out at the County and School District level just so that there's more collaboration and less competition because I've seen that myself what I don't really see is what what programs are we missing what are your residents saying and and how do you capture that and then could you like if it is a survey could we duplicate that like because I don't know what we what the gaps are so if there's already ideas um for type of programs um how do you get that information and or how could we be part of that getting the information too I think our rec team has talked about you know trying to survey the community survey both communities together but just to find out you know so in my role my new role that and that could way how to do that that would be great that's something I would really support one thing that I have heard if we're going to move moving forward with doing programs is that rather than in the summertime having like a two-hour programming have like a 4 hour so that parents can maybe go to work and then pick up at lunchtime and I'm not saying that we haven't done that or don't do that but um Ive certainly heard that in the past that it's a lot easier if if there's a a program whether it's kind of a travel camp or whatever that it lasts for a chunk of the day so that parents can have that chance to go to work and then come back and pick up at lunchtime or after school or sorry not after school after work um go ahead glad you look like you have oh okay yeah I'm for right now um well I've been very satisfied with our Arrangement um I know that I've been a member of uh Community Center and the curling club which I have to be at later um but um priorities well yeah priorities um I see that mostly with the um the low enrollment and cancellations in Carver has basically been because of the venue um and with the city hall being done soon um that'll open up a lot more opportunities uh for stuff to be held at the new city hall um I know that a lot of people that uh go down the community center or the uh the curling Center they use a splash pad a lot they love the um um the concerts and stuff they have in the park cu the venue is it's it's nice um but we can always look for more opportunities once our venue of the city hall um I think that'll be a great great asset moving forward that's all I got so the what I justest to the council and I'm open to additions or deletions we conduct as a staff a 3 to five question survey we'd use like a Survey Monkey tool um advertise that get as much feedback and then use that as an instrument to um see what's possible in the new city hall space get some of the feedback that we've heard tonight and really um take a a targeted approach to 2020 and then based on the results then that that would really tell the council um and the chasa council frankly and team what's possible or um what's working and what's not and um it be certainly not a decision that the council needs to make tonight but it feels like some of the Hallmarks of continuing um at least through the balance of this year and through 2020 and then understanding if there are going to be more opportunities or if if you want to scale back as kind of a general approach to moving forward I don't know if that Rings true to you or if you want to use a different approach but that's um kind of what I'm hearing is there a way to break out that percentage of fee that is considered going towards our partnership with the with the resident rates as compared to what percentage is going towards the programming yeah it's pretty easy for us to assess specifically what's being um utilized through the facility portion of it so you know for example I think right now we're throughout those slides if you were to add that up the Carver residents are actually meeting value of what we're currently paying just through the facility access so in theory we're providing some of that programming is kind of above and beyond well but in theory too when we put this agreement together there was a specific number of programs that were expected every year along with that so I don't think those numbers completely can correlate to say well we have this many people who are spending this much at the community center because that agreement was as as a whole to include the programming so if there's a way to look at what that originally had looked like as to what dollar amount we're putting towards programming what is considered going towards the subsidy of the of the facilities I would really like to see that so there be something you J would I have to answer so we were paying 51250 a year do you consider it something you can segregate out or is it a lump sum or do you need to think about that well it's I think like Marshall said pretty easy with the facilities to what we that's something we for what what you have to go back sure I wouldn't expect you to have that answer right right now but yeah just looking at saying you know we consider that 20% of it was going to be considered towards programming and 80% was going to be considered towards the facility fees um and then outside of that I wanted to just make one comment uh I did hear from a resident who went to use the chasa town course and they obviously a Carver resident went in and the person behind the counter was insistent that he needed to be a chasa resident to get the discount so if you could maybe just give the town course a little reminder that'd be great thank you and idea surve I mean Erin's new her position's Prett new his position I think that's a great idea for us to be do this together because to get a good sense of what our resents are saying what your resents are saying is going to give us all a better picture of what's going be nice to have some good good any other comments we're all good with that plan all right thank you it's nice to see you again Ain thank you jasa all right um moving on to the Future water treatment and Supply Mr lanis where he go [Music] okay good evening mayor and Council here I have a Theron a slides here because it's a big topic talk about your uh your water system planning uh the good news is this is largely information right now we're going to give you a lot of a lot of information sorry don't talk loud enough here I'll step into the mic so we're going to give you a lot of information and uh and try and bring you up to speed on where things are at with the Carver water system so the presentation's really going to get into you know what is the Municipal Water Supply just a slight refresher on the big picture on this just so you when I'm talking about these various terms you kind of know know what we're uh referring to when we talk about some of the uh key terms capacities and such we'll go over your existing system here summary of past demands which obviously is the the Baseline for what we expect your future demands to be uh then of course we're going to talk about the needs to meet the water demand and then some next steps and implementation recommendations so and then of course you know recommended actions for uh where we think things would be going from here and then looking for feedback so I will uh go back to just about Municipal Water Supply I know this is kind of a a simplified figure but I would like to talk a little bit about some of these elements to kind of explain how how we look at capacity of a water supply system so uh water supply consists of Wells or surface water around here it's going to be wells in some places you'll you hear about surface water supply but uh here we're going to be referring specifically to Wells uh water treatment that's that's where the water's cleaned of of course pumps and water towers the water towers where where you get the pressure but in some systems for example Minneapolis they don't have water towers they just do it with pumps so you you don't don't always need Towers but towers are most uh most effective in most of the smaller smaller areas for uh getting your pressures where they need to be and then uh distribution piping is all over the place and then of course uh your metering for the water sales and of course fees to pay for it all now the number one most important thing that I'd like to take from this is is your water supply is based on every one of these components being in in operation at any one time that's very important because you know we you look at the well capacity that's one one element that that can uh fall short of your demands you look at the uh treatment plant the treatment capacity can be limited in itself you might have enough well capacity but then your treatment plant might not be able to treat the water to get it out to the system as as demand uh calls and then of course storage you need you need elevated storage for uh fir flow and pressure you can also have a situation where the other two are working just fine and you have plenty of Supply but the water tower it can't keep up in which case your your storage is is limited so all three of these things have to be really in sync and I could go further a distribution pipe and actually has to get the water there so you could get to the point where you all everything works except your distribution pipe and you can't get it where you need it to go and so when we talk about capacities we're talking about all of these things and so it's it's pretty important to kind of look big picture on this that uh all of them need to work together in order to get your um get get your water to your residents so a couple of critical definitions uh when when we're looking at Water Supply these are these are some U terms that may come up in the future as as we discuss this firm capacity is the the treated water capacity of Municipal Supply system with your largest Supply component out of service this is really important because when we talk when we talk Supply we want to be able to serve uh serve your Peak conditions when one element has failed and so that might be your largest Supply component maybe that's maybe that's uh your wells remember we talked to the Wells treatment or uh or storage if one of your wells is out of service that happens pumps fail things things go wrong you'd still need to meet your Peak day uh Demand with your other Wells and your treatment facility and your uh and your Towers so it's it's a industrywide term that you refer to capacity as firm Capac capacity it means we're very confident that even if something goes wrong you'll still be able to we'll talk the next term which is fir flow meeting a fire uh in accordance with uh fire codes and requirements even with one of your largest Supply components out of out of service you'll still be able to fight a fire on your Peak day of uh of the year and so that's that's how Municipal systems are largely going to be defined and you know we'll talk a lot about that when we talk uh Supply you know of your system versus the the expected demands and uh maximum day demand that's the water supply required on the highest demand day of the year so I've got a few figures to show you how that works you you uh see some notable Peaks throughout the year and you you have to design to the Peaks whether we like those Peaks or not they they exist and so uh I'll keep running through the reality can you give me an example of a firm Supply situation where something has failed like can you give me a scenario okay help me process one of those items failing okay um we would I would say in in some of the the the towns that we would we would have uh worked on over the years hottest day of the year lots of irrigation going on the the tower the water tower is drying down and the pumping capacity to feed those Towers is not keeping up okay so if you have all your wells running at at all times to try and keep that Tower full you start to draw that Tower down to the point where it gets too low you're going to start seeing pressure losses throughout your entire system and quite honestly the supply is going to drw it past uh is going to overwhelm the pumping capacity going into the tower so the firm capacity element of this is that that's a that's happened in many communities if one of those Wells was that was feeding the tower as it was kind of getting dry drain down failed it would most definitely have been uh out of out of water and out of pressure and so it it gets it gets pretty important to start talking about the what could go wrong scenarios with water supply because it's a tough day if if the the things you know that that can go wrong do go wrong especially when you're talking about uh you know fire fire suppression and things to that nature so that that would be one scenario and it has happened in communities did that answer it yes thank you I just wanted an example to wrap my head around it okay is that what happened in the city of Blain was that Blain that that happened when water tower went dry Blaine had some component had some uh they had some technical problems that they did end up with some water shortages I I'm not sure if Brian can speak to the specific of Blaine but I know it was they had some failures of of their componentry that Brian are you familiar with the ex specific of Blain yeah they there's been a couple of presentations that were done on but they did have some equipment failures a lot of it was the ska controls that failed they were in the middle of a construction they had some temp temporary components in place some of the alarms didn't trigger um and some of the pumps didn't start so that's what drain their system so um what Dan's talking about even the scada piece is kind of a big component into the whole system so kind of On a related note something I actually heard on the radio today for statistic but makes me want to know more about growing cities is that Blaine was in the last eight years had 16% growth so maybe that's just a risk with with with the growth that they had or something but something um kind to take off line but like to know more about okay so I I'll I'll move into the your existing system uh What uh what's out there today uh the current car system includes four Municipal Wells um one water treatment plant two water towers uh many miles of water distribution pipe and you you all know what's under the street moving all over the places all those uh pipes for running the water to the homes and and Commercial businesses and then three pressure zones if you're not familiar with the pressure zones they're called prvs they're pressure reducing valves you when you have a lot of grade change or elevation change throughout your community you can go from a high down to a low for example if your water tower is way up here and it's setting a certain pressure for that upper upper Zone uh for the the elevation that's higher well that your pressure in your shower is going to be normal up here if you if you don't have some reducing stations to reduce the pressure from high down to low person at the bottom of you know that the the hill or the elevation down there is going to get quite a shower or their Plumbing is going to burst and so they they have these pressure reducing valves throughout the area to drop the pressure from you know obviously where it would be very high down to a Zone that's that's intended by Design so you you have three different zones you do have some relief so that's a important part of the the system so that gets into location of storage and things to that nature so that's just some background on what you have so a summary of past and and current water demands uh this is this is just RW data from uh uh Brian's records here on how much water has been uh used uh at the city so if you look back here 15 16 17 you'll see average day demand what what that means is that's kind of your that's kind of your rolling average throughout the year the maximum day is is the important one that we're going to call out I got a couple of graphs that show what that what that looks like throughout the year but what what I highlighted in red here is is your um uh demand that was actually exceeding your current sustainable uh facility capacity and when I say that we're referring to firm capacity but it was actually pushing over over and above what is intended for sustainable capacity now there's a little difference between uh running out of water for example and exceeding your intended capacity for example in these situations you can run your pumps 24 hours a day uh you can you can hope that everything is going to be in service uh throughout throughout these periods and you're not going to run out of water so that gets back to the assumption that the firm capacity is a bit more conservative than that it's going to be assuming something went down a major component went down and you're not running your equipment at all hours of the day to try and keep up that that gets that gets into the realm of all right we need to start thinking about expansion and we'll talk a little bit about some of the things that that Brian's been uh doing to try and stay ahead of the curve here but what we're going to be talking about here is is the big leaps that that you can expect over the next 10 to 20 years and really need to start planning for so um so the idea being is you're reaching the limit of your system I guess is really what what we're try to get out of this so why uh demands expected from growth here's your uh uh 2040 comp plan uh you can see the the growth uh growth areas is shown and what you could be growing into now what pace that happens at it's anybody's guess uh we can't predict that all we can do is go off past growth and make projections based on uh some uh assumptions on where you're your population might end up in uh in 2040 but there's quite a bit of growth area here you're not really hemmed in at this point there's there's a lot of potential to expand and I think as everybody up here has seen Carver hasn't been exactly a undesirable place for developers to to go look for for opportunities to develop lands so uh we are expecting that there's a great deal of potential here to expand and exceed the system system capacity capacity here so your annual water Demand versus current capacity remember we we talked about uh your um your demand for water is not always uniform there's that maximum day demand so this kind of outlines what that what that is is this is your u u uh 12 month cycle of water demand again this is based on Brian's record for records for how much water is being used and what you can see is uh the the pink is that's we'll just say that's bad that's getting up there to the point where it's where it's running running pretty much close to your capacity orange is uh it's getting up there uh that's that's close and then uh your your blue lines are that's that's your uh demand throughout the year and so the maximum day demand is is the one that we called out where in that summertime it's almost exclusively in the summertime you're going to you're going to reach those limits that you have to design for and we'll talk a little bit about about uh some of the questions you might have about can you get those Peaks down that's certainly an industrywide uh question that's that's always always needs to be addressed but the reality is is you're going to see water demand throughout the year each year that looks something like this in the summertime you're going to have a high peak demand that has to be designed for Dan is each dot on there a day so in 2017 we were above Demand on four separate occasions Brian do you want to a viate on the on the points on this yeah those are daily so those are our daily readings for that total flow for that day so you're exactly right those are that that Max so can I yep go back to go back where you had the population chart so here so I'm going to ignore the maximum demand because I kind of feel like that is WEA dependent if you will okay if I look at average day demand because I'm looking at my own water bill right my water bill is the same amount from November to April every single month it's the same amount right that's not weather dependent I'm not watering my lawn but in the summertime my water bill is all over the place depending upon how much I'm watering my lawn yep so I'm comparing our population changes with the average day demand and what I'm noticing in my quick rough math is that the amount of increase year-over-year of the average day demand is higher in the last two years than the population growth as a percentage do we think that that's than the previous two years do we think that's because of the type of new additions in the last couple of years it's all new sod going in so they have to water no no I mean it's so average day demand throughout the whole year you think that it's because of all the new sad yet in the the maximum day demand in the last year on that chart was less than the previous two I'm struggling I don't know we had a rainy summer last year is what 2018 was I'm sorry say that again we had a rainy summer last okay so I'm ignoring the last column I'm looking at the average day Demand right which is more than summer right I don't know Brian what so it is the average of the year though that's average of the Year some of that is in those giant Peaks yep so it's taking those giant peaks in there as well and giving you your average day over the year so taking the real low flow so like our winter months we're running about 295,000 so we our lows are lower than that so that's our average day so it's taking those High Peaks the lows and kind of giving you that average okay so if we're going to keep kind our pace of residential growth which adds a heck of a lot more sod than a commercial development we're going to continue to have really crazy maximum days as long as we're heavily growing in Resident new residential yeah I mean that's the the bit probably the biggest factor is is the I mean the the weather a dry season you're you're going to see some pretty heavy but yes new s new sod hurts for sure if you have lots and lots of uh you know new new subdivisions lots and lots of new sod that can be watered until it takes that is certainly a demand on on water and then I mean you're you're going to see irregularities and maximum day demand that's largely tied to water the weather and watering conditions agreed so yeah you'll see control the weather I don't know you'll see the average day demand has consistently creeped upid we don't get to win you don't get to win but yeah okay but we know we're going to be having a lot of residential development growth over the next couple of years so yep that's a factor yeah it can Okay can increase your watering needs okay so that gets into what that this is this is just to kind of visualize how that demand works out throughout the year and so um that maximum day demand is pretty important so when we talk firm capacity we we'd want to be able to fight a fire on on uh one of those maximum days with one of your wells out of service because that's the amount of reliability that you're looking for in a municipal water system that is the industry industry standard for the most part to you know make sure that you've got solid reliability so um that's uh that's what we'll talk about when we chat about firm capacity now this is um this is a quick table showing past and future water demands now what what I use this for is to kind of highlight that yes we have maximum day demand we talk about firm capacity uh making sure it's highly reliable able um but if you're if you look at the average day demand between 2020 and 2040 you'll see your average day demand starts to creep up to almost your current capacity in fact under 2040 in 20 years your average day demand is going to be riding at your current capacity so what this is intended to to explain is that there is zero question over the next 20 years you're so far away from the capacity needed to meet 20 years of growth that it's almost undeniable that there really has to be something that is at least in the in the works for planning to meet Supply when your average day is at Your Capacity you're out of water you're you'll still run out of water even on those Max days um if if those if 2600 gallons per day were called in the next 10 years you'd be out of water and so even even if the irrigation is is the reason it's still still going to it's still going to get you out of water so um this is intended to kind of show the realities of what growth will will do to your water demand so uh Milestone needs for water supply this is one that's going to have a little bit of uncertainty based on how things uh need to move ahead but what I I'm going to start with some of the some of the basics here you're going to need going to need some additional well capacity and uh right now uh we'll we'll say one of the things that you just saw recently from from Brian which was uh trying to increase your your actual uh treatment capacity a little bit you improved uh additional treatment skid he brought those in to try and get your capacities up to stay ahead of the curve and I mean that's that's been a really good thing I mean it's effectively delaying delaying the need for for some of the major discussions that were are right in front of us now a number of years I you might have been having this discussion on new water treatment expansion or a new water treatment facility a couple of years back if it wasn't for some of these things so that's been very valuable to try and uh try and keep the capacities up and that latest skit is GNA is going to uh further that and is also helping to push things down the road a little bit on major expansions so it's been it's been very successful that being said we have a huge leap to go from 1 million up to about 4 million over the next 20 years and so that's there's a very big difference here we start talking doubling Your Capacity tripling and quadrupling your capacity you're talking some much much larger uh commitments as far as which direction you're going to go to try and meet those demands how to do it and such so that's really where we are today is trying to make sure things are well planned out for that uh so some of the other next steps here is locating land for a well and acquiring land of course it needs to be in the right location uh some of those discussions are occurring now uh with staff and trying to figure out where where should those Wells be uh what are opportunities to to build a well where should it be in relation to what the ultimate solution for water treatment water treatment facility so that is one of the cutting priorities though is to get a well on the ground start to look at the type of treatment requirements associated with that uh different Wells can produce different types of water uh that require different types of treatment so it's one of those things that's uh helpful to have on on record is what type of capacity you can get from a given well and uh what's coming out of the ground it uh guides the treatment um and then uh of course uh Renovations the existing facility it's been been around for a long time there's different uh scenarios for renovation there's uh there's keeping it in operation with a new facility taking a brunt of the load there's uh there's renovation and expansion uh but at some point there's going to be a discussion on what is necessary to keep that existing facility operating or what what should be done based on the ultimate solution for for water treatment how expandable is it what are the options so that that really needs to to come out of the the coming steps here to determine what's what's appropriate to put into the existing facility or um how should it be treated in the ultimate solution and then of course there's uh possibly build new facility and I won't take off the table that uh expansion if it's possible it should be something that's that's vetted and compared against building a new new facility so u i mean our job is to try and bring you bring you some options scenarios give you the low down on what what those scenarios might cost longterm and in in the interim steps to try and keep up with your demand so that's some of the next steps here is to try and bring that information forward to make sure we've got probably the best options on the table and it's uh you know simple enough to kind of review how to how to move forward so primary imple implementation costs probably your favorite part of all these presentations is how much would actually uh be out there on something like this uh they're big numbers they are very big numbers granted that they're long-term uh paybacks in most cases but uh they're they're large numbers to get into water treatment expansion and so uh new wells can run uh almost a million dollars uh and so you've also got renovation you've you've probably seen potentially seen some numbers on that that could be upwards of uh1 to2 million but depending on if the renovation of the existing facility ends up being uh very basic just to just to keep it uh keep it operating while a new facility is is being planned for the ultimate solution that number could go down and that also would get factored into the options analysis as to the pros and cons of of various Alternatives then there's build a new facility uh or related infrastructure expansion build new now what we've looked at to date is build new for 20 year in most cases here uh you're looking at building for 20 years of uh of potential capacity we always look out at least a 20-y year Horizon these facilities these facilities are intended to last 40 50 60 years but capacity is is something you wouldn't go out 60 years on it so you're you're going to look for expandability how you going to continue growing and in all solutions but uh generally speaking what what's being priced out at this point is about a 20 year uh 20 year scenario the reason why I have 10 to 15 million in here is because there's different scenarios that that could play out you can build part of the capacity and then expand it there's different ways to build less and expand and you know there's different scenarios that can be looked at and uh that would be part of the uh equation that needs to needs to be brought back to you in in the coming months here so um most cost in this case would not be occurring until 2122 I interrupt with a question two of them actually so for the first bullet for increasing the capacity of the wells and drilling a new well is that $1 million is that all in is that land acquisition and all the equipment um it's it depends on the land acquisition of course if you're buying just for a well that would probably fit well into this range here uh if you start buying well more way more than just the well then you know we might be talking a little bit different which would fall into the 10 to 15 million range if you're talking talking about water treatment facility also but for the well itself yeah I've got that number up a little bit for uh for some of the various scenarios that could play out we also would have a scenario where we don't have to build the well and have it in operation day one you part of that is to get your Your Capacity to the well water quality and such in which case the rest of it could be built finished in 2022 put pumps in so they there scoping level but that's that's the order of magnitude to build a well yeah okay um and then my second question question for these price points these are different than what we saw in the utility rate study correct or are they yeah yeah they are that number was number was a bit smaller and you know that's that's the difference between some probably we'll say higher level higher level approximations here on on what your needs are going to be and post study you know there's there's a big difference when you're when you're estimating a water treatment facility and when you're saying here's the realities of it we're closer to here's the realities of it and plus we're factoring a little bit of inflation and such so that's where we have to we have to go back and tie these things together and the further we get down this process the more the numbers become real I still have to consider this to be scoping where earli you're on on the right study it was it was certainly a lot higher of a shot at at what you might be needing so I have a couple questions too if we're in that spot um the amount of water capacity that we have right now considering the new homes that are going in all the ones that we have planted planted planted um thinking about the side um are we okay if we let's say buildings stopped tomorrow nothing more came in platted and are we in a safe spot with water today as of today today and then with the new homes that we have platted nothing not looking into the future of nothing or things that haven't come in yet the houses that are set to be built it's I mean it's it's a more comfortable spot and it's more stable and I can let Brian speak to that a little bit but I'm not going to say it there's there's nothing that would be needed I mean there's certainly things that would would be associated with PL your existing facility reliability and uh you know some other other we'll say firm capacity improvements for reliability but Brian you can speak a little bit to how comfortable you are with your your current Supply so yeah currently no I mean we are operating um the renovation of the water treatment plan something that would be real you know that we'd still be looking at but it kind of back to Dan's point is the firm capacity of our stuff so um well production we'd probably be looking at still another well at some point in time and then we' probably with the skid operation that's the only that gets us there now and that's only for summer operations so we would have some winter considerations we'd have to look at as well so okay but so technically with the houses that we have platted now we're we're okay houses that are built now the houses that are platted will be they'll be more more skids that would be needed for that Peak so we there is some there's some improvements that have to be made okay I'll have more comments in minute so do you have anything else or do you want me to keep moving here I can come back to anything if you questions but if you want to keep moving Mr lanis it might answer some of my questions okay thank you good uh all right so uh here's a couple of reference slides just to give you an idea about what's being talked about and considered here um that big U blur and blob and yellow that's that was a high production well location uh Brian had a hydrogeologic study completed here that looked at U looked at well the geology of the area now remember that initial slide you know you've got you've got the aquafers that you're that you're pumping out of well aquafers are not created equal some are higher production than than others it's got to do with like if you're pumping out a nice porous sand it's going to come out or certain rocks porest rocks is going to come out quicker than other other locations so that was that was a location that was really deemed to be valuable as far as high production Wells which you know is still still part of the evaluation process versus some other scenarios where you drill more Wells for example you can get one well at at 1200 GPM gallons per minute for example in in a in a good good aquifer um in another location you might get uh 600 gallons per minute and when you're looking at the realities of it if you need 1,200 you're going to be drilling two Wells versus one so these are the types of things that have to be weighed out to the final location uh solutions for water treatment and uh you know that's that's something that's going to be factored into the analysis so up in red there was some uh thoughts about where where could a a water treatment facility go if a if a new new one being built is the final solution here up there near uh Lake View industry and um near the Wicken Houser property uh there's you know a couple of scenarios that's right up off Commerce Drive uh good service uh some some potential for um uh for the treatment facility to fall in line with some of the other uses that are up there and so those are some ideas as far as where where they could go and of course as I mentioned what can you do for expansion of your existing facility so um this is just to give you an idea about um you know some of the things that are going to be coming back in front of you uh in the future so common questions I might get it a few of your questions but uh of course we'll we'll uh let you tell me what I didn't cover here uh what is the urgency it's your point how long is reasonable to wait for expansion um I would say there's quite a bit of urgency right now to figure out your solution it's it's pretty important to stay ahead of this one of the mistakes that that growing communities have and you're in that threshold where you're going to have that leap from five to 10,000 is a big leap uh there's going to be there's going to be a lot of lot of changes your system tends to get a little bit more buffered as you get really large like Minneapolis and pipes all over the place and uh pumps in all directions you've got a little bit more flexibility here as as growth comes in it's not quite so rapid but growing from 5 to 10,000 you you can really push the limits of a system in a in a hurry if it's not well planned out and the other thing is is uh you've already I'll say you've already pushed the limits quite a bit some of the things that Brian's been doing is been keeping you ahead of the curve and uh and it's it's definitely it's definitely getting to the point where a solution should be in place the keep in mind that nothing happens quickly when you're talking about white water treatment so if if said all right let's let's go the solution is build a new water treatment facility it it is not going to be in in January that that starts I mean from the time you say this is what we need to do this is the right thing it's the most cost effective solution for the city of Carver for the next 10 20 years that's a couple years uh you're you're you'll go in 19 you might be online by 2022 and so it's it's not advised to get behind the eight ball when you're talking the water supply because it's a long lead time to get these systems in line for example a well you need to get the land you need to drill it you need to put all the plumbing into place to to your uh uh to your treatment facility and then uh water towers take water towers are probably some of the quicker things you can put up but a treatment facility as a as a a standalone here it takes a long time to get online and so it's it's a couple years and so how long is reasonable to wait I'd say not a not very long at all for planning out the solution and coming up with an answer on how you're going to meet your your long-term needs and that might include a stage solution where you're not building everything right up front or you're build or maybe it's more cost-effective to build a majority of it up front so we'll talk a little bit more about that can we conserve water to delay new new treatment that one often comes up we get a lot of questions on can you can you drop I'm gonna make sure how am I doing in time um can you conserve water to delay new water treatment uh as as we just talked about irrigation is a big one uh it's it's summertime demand um conserving water is is generally not considered to be a solution to your current demand needs it's a solution to your future expansion needs for example unless you shut people's water off in two to three years that's not going to be the solution to your demands in the summertime you you'd literally have to take control over over watering otherwise you're going to meet Peaks that you don't like in a couple years and you're still going to have to serve serve those those Peaks so uh what I would what I would like in the to this question is you can ex you can greatly delay how long you'd need to uh how long your expansion would would serve your system if you get into some water te conservation techniques that are very effective in say 2030 we might be assuming that uh expansion will take you out 20 years water conservation might might get you out 30 years maybe maybe get you out 25 years so but as of now it would be very difficult to use that as the solution to your your demands because without flat out taking control of people's you know faucets it's it's not going to be a very quick and readily available way to address some of these Peaks and so it's it's definitely something that should be a priority and as always you know it's it should be on the Forefront of these discussions uh what if City growth slows down is that being considered uh that's certainly been something that's been brought up and Brent's definitely wanting us to look at all the different scenarios what if what if uh uh the the growth rate slows down a great deal what's going to happen to a payback scenario on uh tripling your your treatment capacity um what does that mean and then that's going to be compared against well what's the ultimate long-term cost of these different solutions to get your capacity from point A to point B so so I'm going to talk a bit about that uh in some of these additional slides so I'm going to move move on to those to kind of explain it further but uh how are water treatment options a reviewed for cost implications there's different ways to treat water we there's different uh facility types we we review the different uh different treatment options that are out there we compare them for cost We compare them for maintenance and serviceability plus we get into some life cycle scenarios we've had scenarios where a water treatment facility um typ might be cheapest uh for the buildout condition but over a 50-year life cycle because of rehab and repair and and maintenance of of certain components of that treatment facility it ends up being more expensive to a community over over a 50-year life cycle because these these These are going to be with the city for again 50 years and so that that does get evaluated into the process but ultimately there's there's about you know there's there's about three three primary ways to to deal with water treatment so um can we phase water treatment for expansion um yes the answer is yes and I'm just going to talk more about that and that also gets into the what if the city growth slows down so got a couple of slides on that so staging scenarios uh just the basic premise of uh staging here for um water treatment is that you can build significant capacity say for example 10 to 20 years you're going to get your capacity way up and then your growth is going to grow into that as time goes on um generally what that's going to mean for you is that's going to be your lowest amount overall uh that you're going to pay uh you're going to pay a good majority of it UPF front it's all your construction efficiencies are are going to add up because you're pouring everything together you're going to get a contractor to show up one time you're going to do all all the filters together all the concrete together it's it's mass production effectively and so that's what you're going to see is in the future you'll likely see a scenario where you're going have the lowest overall cost from building Your Capacity up uh with the you know some of the recommended Alternatives however um there is plenty of options in which you can pay lower uh upfront cost which might be something that's applicable here and then pay again in next number of years uh to expand in a planned manner higher overall cost more more often than not that's going to give you a higher overall cost that the city would end up paying over a long period of time but it's got some benefit of reduced initial initial expense and some reduced risks so those have to be all weighed out and that's what we're going to be doing is laying laying those out and saying all right um get your Finance reps to take a look at it and say this is you know this is the different ways that this would play out and you know where it gets gets into the territory of maybe it's it's um uh not financially beneficial to to do each and every uh scenario here so we're going to have have to look at all those and compare them side by side and I'm going to explain this really really briefly with a couple of simple slides phasing considerations you can build it out 15 20 years this is what uh happens in a number of cases you're right now what you're going to have take a look at this blue line that's going to be the city's demand I can't predict that demand we can just simply go off of uh historical uh data we don't know what's going to happen uh but uh your demand is more likely than not if you're like any any community uh that uh we've seen with the type of uh growth area and potential you have it's going to increase as bottom of the blue line is is uh you know where closer to where you're at now and in say 40 years you're going to be up closer to that projected water treatment facility capacity so when we're looking at this you're going to at some point have to go from that lower line all the way to the upper line over over 10 years 15 years 20 years whatever the case may be you're going to be going down here all the way up here on your capacity good build build that up front and then you're going to see uh you know a big facility that treats your water for a long period of time you're going to probably see some construction efficiencies associated with that or you can get into different phasing scenarios so you can build a smaller facility with less capacity on day one and then there you can increase that capacity over time in in a number of different different ways and it kind of depends on the ultimate recommended type of water treatment facility the way the way the water treat treatment process would be occurring as to how the staging might play out um there's different different scenarios but ultimately you you're still getting from low to high one way or the other you're going to have incremental steps and so the the evaluation goals that we'd be setting forth and bringing back here is estimated overall water supply expansion costs to meet long-term growth needs so in all cases we'd be saying all right here's how much you'd be paying to try and get your capacity from download down here all the way up here over time and so that's that's something we considered and finance folks are going to see well there's a value to to money also if it's if it's not not tied up in infrastructure so they they'll weigh in on some of that stuff but you can if you add add the costs of those two doll signs with the different expansion scenarios you're generally going to see a larger number total uh and so that's going to be part of this process as to you know how many times would you expand and and in what way would meet the overall goals most cost effectively and in the best manner for the cash flow of the city the lowest risk so that's going to be the phasing and staging uh evaluation process that's uh uh coming up here see what would make the most sense and then uh immediate next steps is as you can see we're trying not to drop anything on you that makes you makes you make a immediate call these are a lot of big issues that more information is going to be coming but this is a pretty big status check on what's Happening and and uh why and so looking for some immediate Council feedback uh or as as you see fit in whatever manner uh we're looking at site evaluation and land acquisition for Wells and water treatment that's something that should be active now it takes a long time to to happen I think evaluation process should be going should be occurring just to figure out where would this go uh so we can factor that into your uh costs so I'll see if I can remember some of this stuff here um but uh the next bullet point so Council feedback one two is site evaluation land acquisition for Wells and water treatment site which I think you just went through number three is further facility design for pricing accuracy phasing considerations and implementation refinements get all those M yeah I was to say Miss mayor I think we have a lot of questions here not a lot of time left so well we can carry this over this is important I don't want to rush this so go ahead um I mean you're ready sure I can I know that Lori had said she had some questions too but I know I have a list here um Brent when we're looking at how I'm sorry you're on the computer are I just want to make sure that um when we're looking at how this is funded is this coming through just straight tax dollars that this is going to be put back on to the community no so no no tax dollars so the the pro the general fund is funded through property taxes the three Enterprise funds so water sanitary sewer and storm water funded through rates and charges and so what your process is going to look like once provided some direction is we're actually we're working with Steve McDonald on updating the city's long-term financial plan and so uh once it'll be kind of a two-step process excuse me we'll we'll update the long-term financial plan with some of these key indicators uh the council will look at it you'll kind of say okay this is what we're planning on and then the next step is we'll go into an amendment to our rat study and say based on your current long-term financial plan this is what your rates and charges so rates as in uh your monthly rates that our residents excuse me currently pay now and then charges would be like your connection fees that new developments pay when they come in so the sack and whack fees and so that will give you the what it'll cost um the residents and businesses new uh homeowners Etc um but once we get a more refined number for what the water treatment plant will be in the well which we kind of have an idea of we'll insert that into the long-term PL so it'll be not just these pieces but there's you know oversizing costs the city is responsible for there's other water sewer storm water infrastructure but the critical piece to your initial qu question council member Mach is none of this is related to property taxes not that they don't impact one another and there's not a relationship relationship but property taxes pay for fire uh Public Services as in streets Parks uh planning uh legal Administration elections that's all property taxes anything related to kind of ground and down so think of water sanitary sewer and storm water are all monthly utility rates and so it's coming out of the same pocketbook essentially because it's our residents and businesses uh but there one's property taxes which is General fund and the other is uh your monthly utility bill so if we were to look at so when I'm when I'm looking at this we just authorized a new fire truck to be purchased we just built a new city hall we're about to look at highway or excuse me County Road 11 improvements in the near future um and then now we're going to be now so you said we've got this will affect new building with the sack and whack charges right but this will also affect you'll be collecting through the utility funds for this too so all the residents will see that jump or did I misunderstand you no there'll be part of that will be the council's direction so depending upon how you kind of build your fee schedule so what you can have as connection fees pay for existing maintenance and related kind of operations right City Attorney Harris yeah but it'll be dependent upon the council's kind of Direction and prerogative of how much of the the new infrastructure is related to connection fees so for example if if you put 100% of the connection fees to the new water treatment plant but your um connection fee triples and you have your plant built you're probably going to stagnate development and so then you'd probably have an adverse impact to your residence for all of a sudden they're paying The Debt Service on a new water treatment plant so there is kind of that Balancing Act you'll have some of this information ahead of time so we can we'll give you a a real good snapshot of all those connection fees would as we update them with new a new water treatment plan how they'd relate to Market like what our developers kind of in quotes used to pay um in Victoria Waconia Etc one of the things that I think it was Steve McDonald during his last long-term plan um presentation was you can see connection fees and there's a direct correlation to when cities are updating their infrastructure and so when someone adds a new water treatment plant so they go to the highest of the connection fees and then over time someone else takes that and so I think cologne added uh a signifant significant piece of infrastructure real uh lately I think it water treat water treatment and so they're going to be be at the top of the list and if Carver follow suit will probably bypass cologne and I know Chas has got some aging facility so it um there's information we're going to be putting it all together it'll give you an idea but it I don't know if we exactly know what the ratio would be as far as what new residents would pay and new um or existing homeowners until we have that number and have some direction from the col on kind of the impacts and how you want the impacts to land okay when I just when I look at this and this is for Council you know we look at so we outgrew our city hall we out we're outgrowing County Road 11 um we're outgrowing all these things and then to add we're adding and water tower we're looking at it because water treatment facility Tower because we're out growing again but I do get very fearful of also outpricing ourselves outpricing ourselves for developers outpricing ourselves for people who live here who it may get turned back on so I think I think that's just something that we should really think about as we're looking into this and that's just where I'm coming from right now so I will step back and let everyone else all their questions yeah if I can just address that I hear you and I it's funny that you I think we compiled a really similar list because that's what keeps me up at night is thinking about where else we're writing checks right you know um but I think when it comes down to it this is water and this is you know like yeah what are the three Necessities water to bathe to fight fires to cook to drink to sustain life you know like of all the other things that we've got going on I would argue that this is you know the first and foremost and I think we're testing the limits of our capacity right now but unfortunately we the other things came first so now we're adding another really expensive expensive thing here just stacking it's like we just keep stacking so after that what's next what are we what are we continuing to stack these huge huge purchases at once I I hear you and I share the same I think heartburn of the money that's going out but I find it hard to argue against this because it's so basic and everybody needs it Growing Pains yeah and so I mean your comment about other cities like colog or other cities that are really growing they're doing the same thing they're dealing with these same exact issues right and so their fees go up and may come down after a period of time after they reassess their fees and their facilities and then you know probably like chascas went up huge when they were really emerging growth and then stabilized and then are probably going to go up again as they replace aging infrastructure right so I I I have I share all the same concerns about the the amount of money but I do think I agree that it's core we got to figure out how to do this um but when we talk about Market I think we're fac all of our growing cities are facing similar challenges I'd like to see what that number gets back to see what the excuse me what the development or developers are paying it' be interesting to compare or will be paying interesting to compare so I was trying to think about um you know some of the reasons outside of that this is a huge amount of money why we wouldn't do it all up front right to potentially save some money over the life of this capacity um and so I was trying to think of the reasons why not to do it and so I can think of you know demand stalls right A recession happens we experienced a slowing of growth in the city of Carver we thought we were going to be going like this and we kind of went and then we're back up um now that the economy has gotten better so I thought of that is there anything around technology or treatment technology that would be worth waiting for I don't know I'm just help me understand why you wouldn't want to do it all up front the example that I can think of is more relates to your initial point or um back in with the housing recession there are there are a handful of cities that I can think of like uh waiver like mayor was in that position where they built infrastructure expecting growth and Carver was probably in a similar position with if you look back to our last comp plan what we were expecting and if you and if you're in a position where you built that water treatment plant and you're expecting a baseline of connection fees so part of the rate study will anticipate revenue of let's just say 50 connection fees and you end up getting five uh then you're in a position where your Enterprise funds are really hurting and really what that ends up doing is then putting it on the existing rate payers so um that's the that's been my kind of thing that I've been trumpeting with the team is how can we build this in phases because I I mean we have a lot of growth and development we're getting concept plans we're adopting or considering the adoption of two final plats tonight um but we're also in a position where you're planning for 15 to 20,000 people and we're five now so I'm going to refrain from using an analogy but we don't need the 20,000 right now and so what can we do to kind of Step that up even though it might be more expensive but again if the council feels like it's in your best interest to make that initial investment but you know as I was taking you know notes that a council member kind of mock hit it we have you know water treatment and and Jonathan Carver Parkway both planned for really 2021 um and then there's this thing maybe that's another reason why to phase it right because we have timing of other projects going on around the same time and if you believe in things coming three we likely get funding for the certified Levy and want to do that in 2021 Coury so I mean there's you're going to tell me you don't need a certifi I'm just trying try to get my head around you know why we would choose something over the other right I mean I get we need to do something but I'm just trying to get my head around how do we message that decision how do we arrive at it which one takes priority they all take priority gu I don't I don't have any questions but I share in the sentiment too of yes this is quite an investment but we need to come up with a plan and as far as priority as a city we need to get provide clean water Safe Streets Public Services um and this is right up there with those things I to give you some feedback on what I anticipate to be some future presentations I have a question a little bit toed on the order that things happened so with land acquisition would the city be able to know what a Well's potential is when you talked about that um GPM before committing to purchasing Brian shaking your head well you can have indications I mean what what we indicated what the study Brian had had completed that was intended to okay offer some uh reliability guidance on what you can get out of that uh it's it's expected you can you know get a high capacity well whether or not we get 1100 or 1,200 or 1,400 or even 900 and below expectation you wouldn't know until you start popping the hole in the ground okay um I mean you can do test Wells and things like that to try and get some indications about what you're going to get but that costs money too okay so yeah generally speaking Wells you know unfortunately you know what you have when you've got the got the water coming out but you have good guided e recommendations on where it should go and what you think you're going to get out of any given location or geology if that makes sense and just to clarify you you're proposing one to two Wells with a pump or pumps not a water tower well a well right away but there would be additional Wells as as time goes on so I a tower not not immediately no but there would be eventually be another water tower too all this stuff has to go into long 15 20 year plan so every one of these elements has to remember be balanced your next driving one is Wells and water treatment okay and then that would further down the plan would be a water tower yeah yeah and Brian you can add to that if you like but I think that captured it you're exactly right that's down the road of Le way is Tower and then with the land acquisition is the city only able to use that land for the well or could it be part of another project and I'm thinking too not knowing enough how the funding happens how like really how much acres do you need and is it can you only use it for this one purpose can you par it out sure if you think of where our current Wells are we have two in Lions Park and one up by Mill so you can if you depending upon how willing the land owner is you could buy just one to two acres for a single well um and depending upon where the well needs to be or you could combine it with a a facility like a water treatment plant um we've talked about it again down the road but you know if you SED a water tree treatment plant and we've talked about uh storage for public services and maybe they need a future space as the fire department and city girls so there are a bunch of different you know decisions that you could make and um the priority right now is finding a spot for a well and that will dictate the piping needs and where how the water needs to be treated but not too far after that as water treatment but for water treatment I think we need five acres does that sound right certain but if you can you know get if you could get a 10 Acre Site and then if we're in a position in 2050 and we need to add on you know one of the things hindsight being 20120 would have been to try to acquire more land where Christy's Bluff is currently and have some more area in that space to expand our existing plant but um and there are there are some maybe possible opportunities there that we're exploring um but that would you know we want to put our or try to put ourselves in a position where if we find a new site that we have some room for expansion and some other capabilities okay that's helpful to know thank you and then um one last thing is feedback I noticed nothing mentioned about industrial growth so I and maybe it's just not how these projections work or but are we at risk of if a certain industry wanted to come in that used a lot of water or needed high water pressure that we wouldn't be able we wouldn't be a good option for them like how do we plan for that um billing I'd say generally speaking that we're planning for it now by having these discussions and we I I can't think of any one user that would throw us completely off our curve okay there's certainly high if you all of a sudden went completely heavy industrial with a high Dem demand for water that would probably factor into our Productions or projections a little bit but if we got so close that you couldn't get a development to come in based on being a high water user we're we're probably too close just for every every development that comes in the door so it's a good question but each each and individual uh uh development is is shouldn't throw us off the curve but it can Factor us Factor things in based on what your land use is expected to be so thank you we're nearing time aren't we I can hold my questions seven minutes got seven minutes um I know that we're nearing 5,000 or at 5,000 population we'll be gearing for population of 20,000 within the next 20 years um I know that Brian we're at the end of what we're doing with our skids pretty much so right now we'll be meeting our needs for the next basically 3 to 5 years if if that's where it's at um water is one of the three essential things in life and we have to supply it that will bring in um we have growth coming um and yes I feel I understand with all the other projects we have going on they're all priorities just ask anybody which one they want to do first and you'll get a different answer from everybody but water is to me you know the driving force of what will bring people and we're looking at you know plats of 380 units here another 80 here um and other stuff moving in um it's it's to the Forefront so and the it's the funding mechanisms and everything and how we pay for it that we can I'll discuss later but we need to kind of put this on the Forefront of of of things that uh we as a city need to focus on I agree I think knowing the development in cver I think this is something we all very easily anticipated the three of us knew it because we saw the water rate study probably last year at this time the only thing I'm disappointed in and I get that it happens is just that the numbers are coming in significantly higher than what we were presented in the utility rate study um the costs yeah those are the numbers you're referring to the cost okay not necessarily the growth but the cost nope um so the utility rate study laid out what we had to do for a new well for a everything that we've gone through tonight yep but based on the numbers okay their predictions of what that would cost those numbers are different got it um I think that this is important I Echo Glenn's sentiments there are very few times where we hear you guys say this is something that we need to do sooner than later no really like right now yeah um and I'm hearing that from you you know just two weeks ago we gave Brian the authorization to purchase a new Skid so we're moving towards this we need to continue to move towards this so one more comment then so if we're looking at the developments that are coming in and we said that I mean are we are we going to run out before this happens I mean do we consider ourselves that we're putting ourselves at risk with what we have coming in for plats right now and what may come in in the next year year and a half two years it depends but how you the context to the question so what if the city did nothing yes you'd run out but it's you know we're if you keep repeat that please if the city kept its current infrastructure in place and every single home that's platted or about to be platted developed you'd have a problem right do we have anything immediate worry right now that the ones that we are going to be approving that are coming in here tonight and so forth that we are going to have an issue because we don't have the water Capac I mean that's what we're doing if you follow through with what we're suggesting and put a plan in place to build additional cap capacity by adding a well then you you'll be we're going to be all right you'll be all right okay but if you said we're not adding any additional infrastructure yes then we would have a problem okay but it's a it's kind of an ongoing story as you develop that need we're going to identify it for you then ask you to consider making an additional investment right I just I'm I don't want to approve more housing before we have a chance to get this in if we are going to be putting ourselves below standards and putting ourselves at detriment and risk that's all I would like to say on that one so if you have any there's nothing that I'm aware of that would make lead me to believe that we have a concern where if we get a a glut of building permits in 20 19 and 20 that we're going to be running out of water is that accurate yeah I guess the way I'd put it is is we're kind of get we're paid to to have a little bit of urgency before it happens uh and and things go go sou so yes it's it's urgent for us because we know it takes years to get the stuff into place and so as of as it stands right now you know that is assuming that growth continues as it's as it's happening and and Brian's done a couple of things to try and keep the capacities up and so all these things keep propagating forward know you're you're fine for your your growth but if we said all right well we'll look at this again in two years and then had a plan that took another two years to implement then I would sayble at that point that would be that would be not a real concern okay thank you we good okay thank you um I would entertain a motion to adjourn by council member Henry I'll second we have a second by council member Mack um any further discussion all in favor say I I opposed motion carries thank youed