uh so let's call the work session into order of first is the housing action plan of allings sorry ahead thank you I hope that wasn't recorded great editors it'll be fine okay thank you mayor and council tonight we are looking at the housing action plan for the second time we previously discussed it at our work session so got some general feedback last time tonight we're going to focus a little bit on format and then talk through some tools that were requested at the meeting and some tools I think we can incorporate as we move forward with the housing action plan so largely the information is the same we had some edits from the group but the format is pretty drastically different our goal is that it could be used by residents to learn more the council to use as a tool but also to share with developers just as a snapshot of where Carver is right now what we know about it what we've learned something we could hand to them at the first meeting we have just to say this is where we're at with housing this is where we think we're going so again format is drastically different but information is largely the same hopefully it's a little more visually appealing than just four pages of text so both versions are on the screen right now there was a significant error no one has brought it up yet but it needs to be greater than instead of less than yeah that one hurt me all weekend just knowing that it was in there oh so the council requested some additional information about other cities what they're doing for affordable housing how we might incorporate some of that work so there are definitely some Heavy Hitters in the Metro that are doing this work and this work is really inspiring in the area of affordable housing so the first that I'm going to talk through is St Louis Park they have a really robust inclusionary housing policy so it only applies to multif family and that number um depends on the affordability of the units so a lot of these cities are going to have the same um information that it's a robust program it works really well they're getting affordable housing but they have a lot of tools that we don't have at this point and tools that I don't think we'll have in the next several years just based on Council appetite Carver size what we're working on so for St Louis Park a developer if they come in with an affordable product they can apply for things like funds from the city of St Louis Park they have an affordable housing fund available at the city the community de development black Grant through HUD City housing rehab funds revenue bonds they can use Tiff Housing Authority funds and then land write down so what that is is the city essentially would sell property for cheaper if they knew a developer had um property that was affordable if they own that property so moving through that sure so it land right down um the city might acquire a property and then sell it for cheaper than what they acquired it for if there's an affordable component so how does the city then write that off if the city's taking a loss on a land purchase so I suspect it's all part of this program so it's under this policy that they have the ability to do that okay do you know anything more about that not specifically about St Louis Park but in general you don't have to write it off the city isn't required to like make money on so if you think back to the um old My Pillow Factory you know at one point the city owned it and based on the project that we were going to get there was some room to negotiate so you know um in the case of Carver Ridge we sold it for we didn't make any concessions on it um but based on how the deal could have come together we might have considered selling it for a lower price in order to get the project in okay but we don't um the the loss comes at wherever the source of funding was was or is so you know without knowing what how St Louis Park has funding it it could be through one of these you know the Community Development block grant is a pretty robust where it's typically hundreds of thousands in some cases Millions dollar of funding so it's it's likely through that it it could also just be a piece of Remnant property that's buildable that this a city's had for many years and they just said well we want a better higher and better use on this property so okay um we want to move it so instead of getting 100,000 we'll take 50,000 an acre okay okay thanks all right just well we're asking questions in the packet you have different color font for some of these items items are these kind of the the larger investment pieces yeah so these are the pieces that we don't have that we would need to move forward with some type of policy some type of funding through the budget to be able to have a program similar to these programs so uh right now we don't have a fund available via the city that you could apply for to get money for affordable housing um the Community Development black rant again available through HUD we could do an application to we don't have rehab funds for residential we have a downtown program that uh for some facade work we don't offer revenue bonds we do work with Tiff so I'll talk about that with Carver Ridge a little bit Housing Authority again and then land write downs we could do historically we haven't so just some programs that St Louis Park has tools that they use that we currently don't have something we could absolutely entertain but not something that we likely could get to their level to be able to say our program is as robust and we're as open to affordable housing as they are similarly Adina has uh program inclusionary housing policy you need to have 20 units or more again based on the percentage of affordability and again they have some programs that we don't have so the financial assistance is available from the city of Edina the Housing and Redevelopment Authority through the city they also offer low interest loans through the city so something that we could entertain but probably something we don't have the capacity to do right now as a staff and Carver things that we uh could do that they do is density bonuses so that's comp plan related how you can move move density from a parcel to a different parcel not something we've ever thought about just because we don't have a project that applies parking reductions parking is wildly expensive as I think we all probably know as we think through projects so a way Edina is doing a cost reduction is saying instead of requiring two parking stalls per unit you only need one so parking reductions Tiff again something we've used and we have in our toolbox and then property tax abatement third is motanka so they have an affordable housing trust fund which is funded uh through the issuance of conduit bonds funding is available through the city loans man matching gr dollars rental assistance down payment assistance a really robust program I was really inspired reading it but likely not something that we can do at this point just knowing some of the constraints that we have so now that we've talked kind of gloom and doom about these great programs that we probably can't do there are a couple that I think we could uh use as the housing action plan mold it to be our own obviously but included as policy work so a good example of that is the city of vonia so as part of a development they have the ability to wave sewer and water trunk that's truck trunk fees um that for a project that can meet affordable criteria so that criteria could be determined by the city so we could say 30% needs to meet XYZ 60% needs to meet XYZ but we need to require that there's a guarantee of affordability so if a project is Affordable for 5 years that use this program then switches to a new owner and suddenly is no longer affordable the trunk fees need to be paid back which I think is a good catch just to make sure that the affordability is Perpetual that it continues to be there since they got that bonus of a waiver fee so this is something that we absolutely could explore I talked about it with Dave Anderson the City attorney just briefly last week and he didn't have major apprehension about it but said like all attorneys do we'll need to work it into the policy review a couple drafts go through it and then it would be adoption of the policy for the fee waiver program so it's City that's having to monitor this so are I mean do you get notices how are you going to how would the city know when some of these building sold so it's pretty typical that we know about a transaction of a building but we could write into the agreement if at any point the building were to sell notification of the city would be required for the most part this fee waiver would come in the form of new construction when someone applies for their permit for the connection fee right but I you were talking about CH I would say in Carver that feels manageable and just as a a note that I should pass along there's um so Glenn can't make it to the meeting tonight uh which I shared the he wanted me to pass along I said I can't speak on his behalf but I could summarize and told them that um this would come before the council at a regular meeting but in general uh Glenn didn't favor the fee waiver program just thinking that ultimately it's subsidized by someone else to pay for those fees so if you know the water treatment plant costs $100,000 and everyone pays their share if these units aren't paying their share it's being paid by someone else and so fundamentally he's against that concept kind of in theory if we do anything to fees kind of make kind of dangle that carrot out there for affortable housing it's going to require some kind of buying from the city just my thoughts you know raten else so the program so far largely related to multifam so thinking through um projects that have over an x amount of units but there is a program that we talked about with the CDA the land trust program where the CDA owns the land under the house the property owner owns the home rents the land from the CDA usually for $10 a month um something that that the CDA runs you have to qualify for the program so you have to hit the County's area median income of XYZ to be able to qualify and the property stays affordable so when the property owner wants to sell the CDA I think has a right of refusal first so they are able to keep that property in the land trust program I reached out to Elise Durban just to hear what that looks like for different cities just because there is there is cost to that program as well typically it sounds like cities contribute about $10,000 to participate in the land TR program so something we could explore if single family affordable is something that we want to think about doesn't have to be now but it could be in one year two year five years if we're thinking to add a line item to the budget for the land trust program so to partner partner with the CDA for a land trust program in Carver yeah that 10,000 that for the or so it' be per lot so if we wanted five it would be 50,000 one would be roughly 10,000 so um It's been a uh NOP just once so for the purchase of the land and the home so Waconia uses the program Victoria has a couple sites chasa has a couple homes so seems like a well EST established program through the CDA obviously they admin administer the program and they doing pretty good work around that as well so a couple of options to discuss tonight for tools the fee waiver is obviously targetting more multif family land trust is uh largely single family there are some tools that we do have in our tool boox today that I mentioned through some of the other examples so Tiff is a really good example coveridge is a tiff project so a portion of their units will be affordable in perpetuity for the next 30 years of the life of their Tiff and then we also as you know see quite a few Grant applications we author a lot of letters of support to Affordable projects so the CDA has asked us a few times to write letters of support for their project we also have things like the comp plan that lays the framework for what we need for affordable housing and then the housing action plan will also be added to our toolbox as I think a good representation of we know where we're at right now we have some tools of where we want to get these are how we can support affordable housing so the goal tonight is to talk through some of those tools um figure out what you're interested in exploring what we can add to the policy and the housing action plan right um so just random thoughts you know like this is we do have some tools in our tool box we have some stuff that we can use but we're kind of starting from really the end of the pool for this so it's going to take a lot of building blocks to get to a DIN oranka and probably not going to be during the time that any of us are sitting up here um but I think what we do is so important to get started um I really like the idea um of the land trust I know that that's something that the CDA is pretty proud of as well um B time what I've seen um I don't know that I love the Fe waivers although it's going to take something to get affordable housing and recognizing that that's the case I think I'd be interested in exploring that a little bit more I do know that we didn't necessarily write in uh wack and Sack fees for cover Crossing part two into our long-term Financial is that right or is that just we just don't know when they're going to come in and so we haven't included them at some point we would it's just got it okay we haven't felt confident enough to include them in the plan yet so I think there's also opportunity I don't think it necessarily has to be a fee waiver program could it be fee reduction so instead of the full charge is it a reduced cost based on the affordability of a Project based on number of units so I don't think this program is one size fits all I don't think we can look at wone and say yep that's it I think we could mold it probably to something that feels comfortable if it feels like too much to bite off for a full Fe waiver at this point Too part of the Fe initially the home that they're purchasing is that at some sort of discount what I mean how do they sure taking the land chunk the what do that kind yeah so it typically is not new construction it's typically a house that I would say Falls in our naturally affordable um housing so I wouldn't picture it to be in one of our new developments but somewhere else in the city um cities generally participate and then they also look for private donations throughout the city so um like in Mone I think like Hometown Bank had a pretty big donation so it's a partnership through several agencies usually but it's a home that's typically more quote unquote affordable then that that have two because if it's already considered semi affordable then that means there's a larger market against having a couple of them but I think because that we don't have a ton of it so it seems like when they do come up they go pretty fast let me have toodle that one around for a minute um one other thing I want to mention too is for these St Louis Park or whatever A lot of these all these are multi family UNS besides the land TR do any of these have anything besides land TR they do for single family resal not that I found although sorry there are some like there's some rehab programs that you could do Rehab on a single family but not um the thing about these is that it's typically new construction and single family usually isn't a place that affordable usually pops up right now so the [Music] community it was okay it is now um the Community Development block grant so let's say we were can you use that towards if we wanted to do land trust is that something you can apply for and use towards that or what tell me more about that block grant who gets it how do you get it what's your chances of getting it what do you do with it yeah so it's usually pretty large scale project I would say a land trust probably wouldn't qualify but I didn't apply that lens to my research on it okay so say it's something we could absolutely look into but I would say wouldn't apply to land trust specifically it's mostly Redevelopment projects on a larger scale since it's a nationwide program okay so I've had an experience where was a part of a successful application and the the majority of the dollars um were used it was a in a downtown area commercial um lower level residential upper level but the City got the funds and then if the property owner wanted to use them they had to guarantee for a period of years that that those that unit would be affordable over that period um and this not to be like a Doner but the one of the things that was a challenge in a smaller Community was um they had to fall under and I'm not a expert in this area but Davis bacon so like there are certain wage requirements for the people doing the work which which was at least at the time with the people involved was offputting and so but to kind of Erin's point it is usually like like a whole block of units and and it's uh it's rigorous but there's usually quite a bit of resources available but it wouldn't be in at least in my experience it's not typical for like um a land trust type program that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen I'm just not familiar with it okay okay I may have some more questions after this but okay stop we'll come back L um I definitely favor the land trust partnership um that Land Trust because it's a partnership with CDA I feel like um they've been a really good partner with us and that they kind of have already this the framework for how to qualify somebody or who how all that they have the framework for it and so we could look to them for handling that not opposed to the fee waver program such as wakon does but not my first choice mainly because of the difference on how you determine and how do you admin you know how you track that and it does doesn't have to be you choose one or the other I think there's opportunity if you want priority wise are like where I could see matching up with what our what we're trying to accomplish would be the land trust partnership with CD sure um I also support the land trust it's existing it seems to be successful in multiple cities so that seems like a no-brainer um to participate in something like that um I guess I'd also like to learn a little bit more about Tiff and how we can continue to leverage that in our community um I'm not sure I have a super good knowledge and understanding of that process and how much pre-planning we may need to do um to leverage that tool in our toolbox going forward as we look at some maybe larger developments coming to Carver do you want any commentary or is that a future maybe I'm reason I don't towards that is and this might be where I need more education is if feel like it benefits more the the developer the land owner the or whoever is investing in building it not the individual who would be living there so for Carver Ridge as part of their Tiff agreement a portion of the units need to stay affordable okay so the people living in those units benefit based on their rent prices what if it wasn't a rental and if I wasn't own some an own the home I would say it wouldn't be likely that we would entertain an application for Tiff for single family just based on the requirements it needs to meet so Tiff uh you can apply for but it needs to be a requirement for the project to happen and with the amount of single family we've had recently I don't think you can make that argument and there's a piece that you've probably heard it said when we talk about Tiff but it's called the butt for analysis and so in order to qualify for Tiff this is a State requirement you have to be able to show that but for that tax increment your project wouldn't happen and so the developer um in all cases needs to show kind of their financials to show that without this tax increment support um they wouldn't be able to make their project feasible um and we could can connect with there and we can update this but you know there is a it's a 25e tax increment district for affordable housing that that you could do so we could you know bring Paul Steinman in or one of his colleagues to talk about 25 is well you can you can go up to 25 years um there are you know typically you've you know you can do single family in that um you know I've seen like more so like duplexes and town homes um you know I think one of the things that um when I think about this whole process is there aren't really any programs for kind of that home that was built in Carver back in like maybe the 90s or late 80s kind of in like your neighborhood Lori you know and so a lot of those a lot of homes of that vintage are going to be subject to as with it probably any neighborhood market conditions like you know is there a high demand can you find that like chrisy were saying like sometimes these homes come on the market and there's you know four or five offers if you know if everything's trending because it's hard to find a home at a certain price point and so um I think what we're going to it'll be I think it would be a good exercise for us to bring in Baker Tilly and go over what that is and what type of housing product uh you could end up with but traditionally it would be a a partnership then with a developer to put up a certain type of housing stock that meets that criteria you know and then making the finances work so that it kind of work together if you will and that's probably the important part if you think about the builders who are in town right now the lonard dear Horton Mi the but for test would not apply for them they're for-profit companies they are large they are National they probably will never qualify for a tiff project um when we're talking um sorry uh land trust this is kind of T kind of I think Brent said it in one way and chrisy you alluded to it but we will this is playing the real staking a little bit right like like in we'd be lucky to get one or two land trust homes in Carver even the examples don't have a ton we're never going to have 30 land TR storms in our community I would agree with that okay so I think I think that that's one tool in our toolkit but I think can't unfortunately look at it as like we did landr we good with affordable hous you so I think it's just like a really small slice of the P certainly a really awesome benefit to have commun but not solution but I would like to morebody else ruction I have a I have a couple more questions about if we go to the diner page with inclusionary housing policy and they're talking about the Adina housing Foundation if you said it I missed it um what where do the fund funding come from for that Foundation I believe it's a nonprofit okay so I mean who's putting money in though I mean okay they have a nonprofit is it large corporation is it a one philanthropist who just believes in the system of of the housing policy I don't understand yeah I can speak to specifics but I don't believe it's a full arm of the city I think it's a private group okay okay um so when we're looking at the inclusionary housing policy when they're talking about new multif family right now I feel like we only think about CDA because that's what we have had or you know with Carver Crossing and things like that but there's I mean we do have I mean we have Carver Ridge but saying here that they have new multif family that must have 10% of units at something I I actually like that and saying okay if you're going to put in 60 rental units you know 10% 5% whatever number that might be I I kind of I like that I think it fits well with the demographic I think it fits well with the size that they're putting in um so I'm not full and I'm not against the waiver at this point I'm just I have to say I'm not fully on board with waving the fees because again I I understand where where Glenn was coming from saying if it doesn't come from one place it's just you're robbing it from another um but once they're in and you have say 10% of units I mean those are the count the county programs that that they have that you can apply for if you need that so I don't know I guess I'm more and yes some of it is all you could all say it's pulling from here and there but I think for me when we're looking at the the waiver I'd be more inclined to say that if you're going to put in something over whatever unit number we would decide would have to have a certain percentage that would be at um I guess the inclusionary rate so we typically would need to form a partnership at that point we couldn't just have that requirement without saying if you do that will give you this in exchange so if you think about if it's this doesn't happen but if lar is building an 80 unit luxury apartment complex we can't just say four of those need to be affordable okay so when I'm reading this from the Adina one that that isn't very clear here because it just says that it applies to that and that's what they have so so to meet that requirement they need to be able to hit the affordable housing goals of the city and if they do then they can apply for city funding okay which is different in outside of tip correct okay okay that confuses a little bit more okay okay can you maybe I think I'm picking up on like the can you maybe explain Aon like that we can't through zoning code require affordable housing It could only be a a basically a it has to be voluntary is that corre well they get something in return but yes so I I know I think I know like a little bit of the of the framework you correct me if I'm wrong or if you don't know but from what I have heard really on the periphery is there's a they do have I believe a Dina has a requirement for affordable housing and if you can't meet it then they pay in the developer would pay in kind of like thinkable Park dedication okay um and so then that money then if someone says well I'm going to do 100% U market rate and they can't meet they don't meet that 20% Then they pay in a certain fee and I don't know the details of that but they pay in a fee and then that money is used to then subsidize what you see here um and again that I'm probably seen a bunch of details on that but the I think the piece to that is you know you need some volume then in order otherwise you'll be you could be sitting with $5,000 in a fund for 10 years because you we have you know a Dina is going to have multiple multif family housing projects we might have one every six or seven years so um but you know I think maybe the critical piece is if if if you find whether whether it's this one or other pieces in here that you want more information on we can go back and get even more information so one of you know maybe part of this exercise is like we're not interested in this so you could cross that off but I'm hearing a little bit of land trust I'm hearing a little bit of fee reduction you know if there's two or three other things that you want more information on we'll put those into the plan as like a kind of a mini strategic plan as an action plan and follow up so you're not approving anything you're just saying you're interested in learning more about these Concepts as part of your overall strategy I like the idea of going down the path of you know this Ed model if you will just curious not sure that anybody has the answer to it like what's the Tipping Point of luring development or scaring them away with the incentives that can be scaled to a car level vers kind of be D um does that make sense MH so um I do like the idea of your 20 units or more okay well welcome to caror we have the requirements XY and z and for that you will get a and C um I just I'm super curious what that that threshold is um also just a random and I I hope related comment but kind of through all this I keep thinking of was probably six years ago now where we brought in Uli enjoy mind have been the only other person I don't know if you were able to make it but it was a joint session between the Planning Commission and Council I we were both on Planning Commission at the time but they talked about development I wonder if they don't have any insight on affordable housing and specifically the Uli is a group of land real estate professionals um and um it's the group through my the Minnesota mayor group kind of as formulated and run through um but I wonder if they wouldn't be good folks to bring back in to talk about affordable housing and like the infancy do you feel like that would be dissimilar from the CDA presentation not necessarily but I'm also I'm curious as to different see three different lens versus kind of the CDA versus kind of sitting on the other side of the table where those at if that's their if that's their um profession though right so they you say the real estate agents things like that um I mean I'm not very I just think it's a different idea because we're yeah I feel like we're going to get I mean because it's it's a profession for them of of it's their money-making job we're going to get something that maybe skews us in a different direction where I think and I'm not sure what they came and talked to you about before I don't know what they're what it they talked about development and they were really good they don't have an agenda they don't have an agenda thank you that's what I was trying to get it like they're coming with an agenda like yeah do this because it's going to make it easier for me to develop and Carver now on the side that's it's a voluntary thing I think you participated in some yeah I mean I I'd say that you are like you feel like you're spitting your wheels a little bit is that fair to is that what you're going to say like it's kind of supposed to feel like that I guess that's the intention is like you're not we don't need you to decide anything tonight we just if you're interested in it and you know I think Eric can Erin can find like the the best resource to get that information to you so you're just you're just really seeking to identify the questions that you want answered but you're not necessarily going to have those answered tonight so if we can identify those questions which I think we have So you you're kind of interested in what this inclusionary housing policy looks like and what are the mechanics of it the land use or the land trust program uh the fee Reduction Program am I missing anything the minona one is not doesn't appeal to me um I don't know that the city as where we're at right now we're going to be able to set aside their own Grant dollars and pay down assistance programs I'd rather explore the other ones before that one conduits so the uh there are sometimes like a um a Health Care Group will want to refinance certain debt that they have and they'll engage with a city to use our tax exempt status to fin refinance their debt and so on some on some sit in some situations the city will provide that but then they provide a an admin fee of maybe 1% of the principle of the loan amount or the bond amount and collect that there was oh man maybe seven or eight years ago the city participated in that for for a uh healthc care revenue bonds for Ridge View for debt they refinancing and we collected a a small fee it's it um wasn't significant because the city can only um extend $10 million um and it has to be we're only allowed to borrow up to $10 million per year it's it's I'm getting into really weedy stuff but it's the difference between Bank qualified uh debt and nonbank qualified debt it's but long story short recollect fees it doesn't happen very often and long story short Carver is smaller than wanka so they have a larger borrowing capacity and there's risk involved in that if the B power was to default uh not to the city no not to the city okay but it's not something that you seek out it's something that some you know in most cases it's going to be like Ridge View or St Francis if they're you know and they look for kind of partnering cities that use their services so in most cases it's going to you know it be one or two of those folks but it it happens maybe once a decade okay and not something we likely can create so something that happens in menona likely naturally does not happen time to add out the hospital in car so in closing on that for the minona one I I'm not in favor of that one I mean we had a 12.9% like tax hike this year so 11.9 sorry um 11.9 um so to say like we're going to be setting aside that you know because it says be a city here you know with loans and matching funds I just don't think that we're in a position at this size to do that so my final thought is I think you've summarized well Brad what we're looking for here but you know we just had a meeting talking about um trunk area charges right we looked at two areas potential growth of the city and both of those areas if I'm not mistaken for our comp plan our medium and high density residential areas so I think it would be good for the city to kind of get a little bit proactive on if those areas were to develop what are some of the tools we might use what might some of that affordability component we what do we want it to look like you know what do wakona use uh as the criteria for their reduction of charges um I think we got a good idea from the Adina example it'd be good to kind of know that so that going in maybe we can be a little bit more we're trying to be proactive with the trunk area charges maybe we can be a little proactive with this and we're talking up I mean some of this can be me you you think about our water connection charges around $8,000 in round numbers I mean if you discounted that 50% that's still 4,000 and then you apply that to 100 units well you're talking like $400,000 you know pretty quickly so I mean this is significant money depending upon on the level of reduction and you think about how many units are in a multif family and then you think about some of these connection fees if you take that amount on I'm not doing a commercial not to do this but just kind of eyes wide open that then that's you know fundamentally 400,000 that is added to the bill all that so as Ain mentioned we'd have to go through a a pretty detailed and extensive process to document why we're doing it how we're doing it um um because sometimes some of these things can be right for someone who feels like they're on the short end to fight back on something like this so um what you said had me thinking and you know with the trunk face comment we don't have any high density area I just looked at the comp plan there is there's a touch there is it there's high in the Big Woods and there's medium density in the tall of whatever we're calling that the southern say let's not yeah the medium density I okay again I don't know if right what that necessarily means what type exact property I mean it's medium density over a chunk of land um but I guess my point was we're trying to be proactive because we expect development thus we will probably see a high density residential product coming our way so let's be pra proactive with what we might want to see from an affordability perspective for those types of properties and where my head is at is we're going to put the time into this plan to make sure that we have some density in our yes plan so we're not we can have a really great plan that we're all super happy with and all completely comfortable with and then have like zero average right high density right hope our website is great search comp plan land use there you go um are we all good on the housing action then do you do you want somebody you know this because this is we spent some time on this do you want somebody beside I mean whether it's the Urban Land Institute or somebody else do you want a different vantage point of um affordable housing programs other than the CDA is that is that a to-do you know maybe that was an ill timed suggestion I would love to see the Uli come back because I just think that was so such a great experience having them out here when they talked to us about it was mostly commercial development when they came out um so maybe we can just set that aside I I'm comfortable in your abilities to research I'm comfortable in everyone's knowledge and ability to look this up so I don't necessarily Imaging second opinion necessarily you what you is it helpful for fee reduction to do like a sample project to see what it looks like with different cutdowns I I think so I mean I would like to see it compared to what it would mean from a tiff perspective it's dollars either way right to the city and I don't I don't know what we're comparing or what those comparisons might look like but I think that if we could pick a high density piece of prop or high density housing comp planned piece of property in that Big Woods area and just do some quick math to see what that looks like I think that's a great idea okay and then that I think that'll help cement it for all of us who are like H this is a little nebulous for us I think that will help correlate it to the long-term financial plan too just there's so many pieces working together that feel I think a little spaced out but I think we can pull it all together okay I like that I question I thought I was done but um so with the Reduction Program is the sewer and water is it just that are there other things that are negotiable is and not that this is where I'm thinking but the just like a park dedication or like to be able to say okay this isn't can't touch this right it would be have so I will say every developer comes in day one and says like I'm not paying Park dedication and we typically say yes you are um I would say without a formal policy that discussion gets really tricky just to say you don't have to pay it but you do because XYZ so having something like the housing action plan with a fee wave or a fee Reduction Program gives us that tool piece of it instead of just arbitrary we like you better than them right but I think what Lori if I'm if I'm getting out you're saying where can they take it from can you use can you take other line and say this is you could and just other just Ty we're just contemplating the connection fees so not trunk future Trunk fees should you choose to adopt them right now yeah thator right now we're just looking at Water connection and S the local sanitary sore connection sack and whack yep but swack is good too a combo that's just what we're looking that right there are other LS that could be I wouldn't recommend it at this point okay you good we to move on okay all good okay um okay you have what you need yeah thank you okay thank you uh moving on Riverside Park concept there we go all righty thank you again so as part of the 2021 2022 the city council asked for a concept for Riverside Park what it would look like to redevelop think about it a little bit differently so we worked with Bolton and M to think about this park a little bit differently a Big Driver would be to return a large area to Native Prairie plantings so phase one of this project would be a large swath of land in the park that would return to Native plantings with mode Trails we would keep several of the um features of the park that people are used to and use like the campsites the archery range something that I think we got excited about about was the river Overlook so if you go down to Riverside Park on any given weekday there's usually people down there eating a lot of lunch in their car taking some time away from work um so we would create an Overlook area that people could park take a look at the river hopefully have some downtime during their day so a new area in the park I know that there were some uh big scale projects that we were looking to have in this park we talked a lot at The Parks Commission about potentially preserving some history in this area so are uh previous buildings or monuments that we could uh solidify in that area so is it a plaque system where we can say this is where the ballroom was with some pictures similar to the historic kiosks or some type of wayfinding I'm thinking about the ball fields that were there just knowing the really rich history that Riverside Park has that I don't think a new Resident knows about just because it's it looks so different than it did many iterations that it has had um something else that I think is appealing for this Chad would probably be better to speak about it is reduce maintenance for the public services staff they spend a lot of time down in this park Mowing and maintaining it so returning to uh Prairie plantings would be a benefit there as well W the make um there it is okay so phase one we uh understood that this project could be Larger than Life potentially so in the packet there were several iterations of what it would look like for different phasing items phase one would just be what was on the screen here so return to Native plantings The Overlook area and then the uh trails that are more natural so Prairie seatings throughout I think ideally we would move forward with the full concept but knowing some restraints we have with the park dedication Budget moving forward with Ironwood Park phase one feels like something we could potentially um work towards in the next few years I'll open it up for discussion questions comments well I have some sorry that's okay okay um so uh I really like the idea of the um Prairie plantings um that area just seems like just see it looks like a lot to maintain and to mow um and could be better suited for something else I love the idea of eventually having a trail to go look at the wildlife on that Lake because there's always so much of it there um so I really like um that concept as well as the Overlook I don't think we ever sit and Overlook the river very often here and so I like adding additional spaces like that um for Carver um my only question is for that pre-planting area how much does that flood I don't have a good knowledge of that I would say anecdotally that area typically does not it usually can get up to the road but not usually over which area so so if we were to put Prairie planting kind of Trail there is that area prone to flood I mean I would assume some area closer to the even if it doesn't go over it come the marsh seeps in but it doesn't I mean it will return to the gr because I mean so I've been down there when hasn't quite over taken from the Riverside yet but the marsh is obviously moving closer in it's it's coming down um but you're looking about where that big that bubble of trees is okay yep and thank you that's generally where I've seen it and then after that the park goes see but if it's just one where it's not going to overtake the river yeah um the marsh usually to from what I've seen doesn't really go past about there yeah okay and once it does then the whole rivers comeing to meet it anyways yeah okay um and then I just I know this isn't part of the plan but I just had side questions about how the camp campsites are rented does the city control those we do do we keep track of it like the facility rentals we do I think we do yeah I think we permit it I don't know if we I don't think we keep we inventory like how many we've had in a certain year I don't think it's on the like the facility rental report I know that was going to be my question I know that was a really long list um and I don't recall seeing it but okay so it's maybe it's just a free permit is that what we're no we there's a we charge for them okay it should probably be on there so when I was staff I actually had those installed through uh Grant oh um and some Park dead money I think if I think back I can't remember um but we there is a fee and it still has they're all marked down there still I know yeah and then I don't know why maybe we should probably include that into to see how much usage they are getting if we if you want it you can it'd be great to add it just to the facility rentals report and the fee schedule okay it's definitely in the fee schedule I know that is it on the fee schedule on the schedule but I don't we don't see like the back end really back anyway okay so side questions you answered my side questions I like the concept okay Lor um I have a couple things we at the other phases or today is just about phase one today is just phase one all right but I like seeing all those um uh and I don't know so I'm glad Mr Chad is here and I do like this pH one I like the idea too that it can you know possibly lower some of the time that um his part putting are we able to that to dollars for just antim okay we're going to spend this much but each year we'll save roughly and maybe so much too so I really took over this but yeah while we're reading for him and here's something to it's just more like an idea have like talk loud is um more arery I'm I'm being serious I just don't know would be or rather than just parking on the grass right now yeah or is there you park along the side but vehicular rer over I do have a hard time with that sounds like an accident yeah the um Scenic parking yeah so that was one too like should be more parkings you know but kind of I know brought that up with other things but it's hard to anticipate the usage okay is there an idea of what we might see dollarwise I could give you an answer but TimeWise I mean we mow it once a week and it takes one person an entire day to wasn't it R onip it's extremely rough yeah that's yeah you have to go extremely slow just because uh in 2019 when the river was flooding there's a lot of pockets and divots in there in that area and we have had some feedback from uh people that use the archery that they would like it a little bit longer distance so if we set it back from the road we could do um maybe some just off the off the road part their crushed rock that' be a good [Music] idea sorry chy um okay so I obviously have a lot of history with this park and I spent a lot of time down there we host events down there um when I look at this overall I really like the plan um there's just a couple of of things that excuse me that just kind of from knowing that Park so well too that I that I noticed so the top I mean I the top part I guess then next to the marsh um I think that would be a great area to have kind of grown in you know there was times this summer when it had grown up a little bit and I could actually Envision it for the first time with this trail and I was thought you know what that's a pretty neat idea um when knowing I mean it will change some events that we have down there but that things change sometimes and that that's prob going to happen um but I do like it above north of the road towards the marsh side of the road when I'm looking at the bottom part um and we're it has the other bullet point there to have that be native plantings too in that smaller area next to the Scenic Overlook I would actually prefer that to maintain as grass because you've got some grass along here when it comes to the campsites as well but that gives people a chance if they want to get out of the car with their kids and throw the ball around or something like that that it's not completely overgrown in all areas so for me I'd prefer to see that that piece to stay maintained because they're going to have to come down and mow some but that takes I mean by having that upper piece that takes a whole lot of mowing out um I don't think it would be a bad idea to keep that just grass in the way it is and right now that's not the worst part of the park that grass over on that side seems pretty decent like the ground seems pretty decent compared to the marsh side where it's really really chunky and bumpy and kind of a mess so um are you going to plan to take the concrete pad out then so if you think of this the S no it's there so where the soy bottom is at that's where we end up putting a tent if you ever come down there it's on that it's the old I there must have been a shelter there for the ball fields or something I think there's no at this point there's no reason to keep it down there but we haven't talked about it specifically but I would imagine that if we do this we' take it out okay so what I was wondering then because back in the day we had talked about whether we could put a shelter back down there or things like that obviously it's in the flood plane um is it something where we could have another little piece of Trail going to that and use that bottom of that concrete pad and just put a you know the most minimal roof and like a couple of you know four or six whatever little poles coming down so that there is a place to get out of the sun if you want to walk on the trails whatever a little spot in there I don't know if we can do something like that down there or not I don't remember question for later question to look into um I like I like the Overlook Park The Overlook area uh when we're talking about you're talking about putting in maybe some signage so because I have seen full-size old growth trees going through there on their sides in in a in a flood um is it something that we can make sure that is removable we can unclip them take them out get them out the same as we do with the archery targets so they don't end up chka yes we also talked about having them flush in the ground so we would mow around them but it potentially would be something that would be in the ground okay what is not like if you have a base the part that sticks up really needs to be removable I really think that it's going to be a waste of money if we don't I mean the stuff that flies through there this is going to be dark but think about like a headstone in the ground oh so it's not going to be because I'm picturing our kios not that type no it's say similar content where we could potentially have some pictures and information but yes knowing that some debris goes through that area we wouldn't want anything in there that could be snapped so if just looking forward if we decide not to do the Big Stone in the ground whatever if we're going to put a sign just make sure that they can be taken out same as larger targets when the when the floods come through um are these picnic tables down by the by the parking lot is that what those little squares are supposed to be I'm G say yeah I would think so but I I just want to make sure that it wasn't they could be Boulders as well so people don't drive into the river they're rectangle no I'm over here oh sorry this parking lotun I'm assuming those are picnic tables if you feel passionately that you would like them there I think I know I just didn't know if they were something else or if they were um there is a horseshoe pit down there what what are the thoughts with that leaving that in if taking it out I don't think we have plans to remove it at this point okay so then that to me too alarm keeping just I feel like you just gave me a look I haven't seen them used in they haven't I don't see anyone down there using them they used I guess I would be IID Advocate to have to remove those because just having that random piece of metal sticking out of the ground feels like a liability I'm not could be liability that doesn't bother me but they aren't they aren't well used I'd rather see it grassed over I mean if it was something where you had big plans to keep them I don't but aon's a big horseshoer yeah down there under lunch breaks day he's like want you want to run it back for some horseshoe I'm like I'm good yeah all right so I guess my strongest um feeling about this is to keep that bottom piece grass um and then the small comments have made otherwise I think it looks really good great um my only concern is I'd like to know a little bit more about how um flood resistant those grasses would be that's a pretty big dollar amount and I just my mind's eye can see although it's been a while since that Park was flooded can see it underwater and washing away and you know I don't know I I assume that the due deligence has been done to bring it before us but I just I I really um want to be conservative about the amount of money that we put into that Park not only knowing kind of where the park debt fund sits um I don't think we have this in the park plan right any of these improvements uh we do have some improvements to Riverside in there okay um but I also I just this park was underwater for more weeks in what year was it 19 that I was above water and I can still see that despite having gone through a ridiculous year last year of drought um so I I'm not in favor of putting too much money into this park to be completely honest I think that there could be some nice improvements I love the idea of trying to make it more natural if we can and if it won't wash away during the first flood because that's the headline that I can see is you know $40,000 worth of grass seed washes away in 2022 June flood you know yep you know cordinate with those those plantings so once they get established because they're native their root system is so much deeper they're not going to go away but outside of that there are Grant programs that you can look into to get some of that money towards that also there's something I guess I worry about the growing in period if somebody can look into their crystal ball and tell you that it's going to flood this year or that we have another phenomenal that is a true saving so um that's just where I'm coming from and I you know I would shy away from putting up any kind of structure in there because I think we know structures are easily 50 60,000 if not six figurs so um I just want to be really conservative about what we put in there I do recognize that a lot of people recreate in there think it's a great great amenity to our community but we did this EX years ago when we looked at Shoring up the Streamline and we kind of realized that mother nature is going to take that back eventually so um I want to be conservative in what we plan in there so guess my question is just about how long it'll take before it's drought resistant and I don't think we have a timeline necessarily for this project just knowing Ironwood is developing right now so we'll keep a close eye on Park dedication but like council member said we can explore grant funding too so we'll keep an eye on it not something that we're asking for approval of to start spring 2022 no but I do like it I like the idea of having more walking trails and and less maintenance that's a lot down there I know with the I'm asking this without checking in with the team so I that's exactly what I just did so feel free but with the council support like a a um internal approach to like you know if we created a couple on our own parking stalls and that Overlook area and then you know mow in a path and let that area grow and then at you know or do you want or do you want to see it Let It Go my only concern is if we just plain let it go is that we're going to get obnoxious weed problem coming up here and not get actual pollinator and plantings that are important so if you can get some of those established you can fight off some of those weeds I don't I I like the idea and I'll let you finish here doing some stuff internally on a smaller scale but I'm just thinking if there is a I know Chad and is team have some expertise in this and I not expecting you to like say what you would do and how you do it Chad but I I just think if there there's a maybe way to get to the end without having know whatever if the number is 80 60 4 like there's a way to maybe take a couple smaller steps and if it's like let's a hit maybe the council and the community feel a little bit more like yeah it's and we get a grant and then we Infuse it but I agree with Christy's sentiment too it's we don't want it to look like oh that's the area they're not mowing anymore yeah that's what I got real lazy all of a sudden yeah I do wonder and you know because my heartburn was coming on the price of grass seed and soil prep you know what would it look like if we let it go the summer and just letting the not doing the butterfly the holidat or things but so there was a few weeks this Summer that that Park I'm sorry to bring up but that it didn't get hit with the more it didn't get hit with the more so I was down there and um cuz I actually called in to Brent and just let him know like you know we haven't made any choices yet we can't just let this you know grow up right now and it was it was coming up it was a little ratty you know it was a little ratty so if we were to let some of it come up and we could see what we're getting but I would prefer to like start infusing at least some of these pollinator things to start fighting some of that stuff back and not letting to take over because once that is what you have then you're in trouble so to answer your question if we can save some money by if and if your team has capacity that's an acceptable solution so if we're if you're generally um supportive of the approach you know we can spend some time this winter and into the spring thinking about if and how we could you know take some small steps you know because you can buy the seed mix and when I say we I mean you're gonna go out and pick it I see you guys you know me seeding and such I'll get my old tiller out okay with that I think we're okay thanks for putting this together it was exciting to look at something like this yeah thank you it's cool to see the Strategic plan stuff come back um okay moving on to number four 2022 legislative priorities Mr mer excuse me thank you mayor and Council so this is a document that you've seen uh for several years in in essentially its current form I will point point out uh a new piece that sheriff camaru had asked that we um include into our legislative priorities related to Pathways to policing um it's essentially a more efficient way to kind of FastTrack people into the the policing profession as you have have read or you likely have read through the Media newspapers cable TV Etc uh there is a kind of a deficit for people going into uh law enforcement and people leaving law enforcement frankly um and so this is a an opportunity to legislative legislatively uh create some additional opportunities uh for folks that are are looking to get into law enforcement um I don't want to be redundant so I'll just if there are areas that you want me to kind of elaborate on I'm happy to do that what we traditionally do is you adopt them we'll send them to uh Senator Coleman and representative Nash and then on uh City's day at the Capal uh we use that document uh council member Mock and Mayor Johnson have gone down a few times I think council member S as well uh where we visited our legislature legislators and have used this document as kind of our talking points a guide for that so if there's any thing you want to see additionally I did include the city League of Minnesota City's overall comprehensive policy manual so if there's something that uh you wanted to highlight and add to our city specific list uh now would be a great time to suggest that as well um so I just in reading this I remember last year you saying BR like if we have too many priorities do we have any priorities and looking at this um I'm going to advocate for really skinny it down I think um that this should be a list that we all know like the back of our hand so that if we see Senator Coleman or if we see representative Nash we can kind of drive home the four or five things that we're working on um and my thoughts are that you know in skinning it down we keep just the city of Carver stuff really clear so that we can say we asked you five things and then hopefully be able to help them Advocate on our behalf for these things so I think what my short list is is um the Carver Levy items and I think we can probably do um some word smithing of these to kind of pair some of them up but the levy the remote participation in meetings local control and infrastructure fees and those are the really many items are the four or five items that I have been trying to um stress with both our Senator and our representative every time I meet with them you know representative Nash knows that I'm a big supporter of the levy and we're looking for funds with that when Senator Coleman came here and we met downstairs this summer we kind of had her first visit to Carver we walked the levy together but I also talked about remote participation in meetings and local control control and my concerns about preemption at the state there are some really serious and I know you guys have all heard me get on the Soap Box before but there are some really quite frankly like issues and bills that are anticipated to be going through the legislature next year that will preempt if they go through preempt our rights as a local government body so um I think less is more and I would prefer to see some of these other things come out can you say the on again that you would like to be taken out not the ones you want and just St taken out so I can kind of um let's see well if you want to go from the top um the first two okay hold on sorry my screen just flipped there we go L Levy I'd like to see him okay um remot participation in meetings I want to stay uh local control oppose preemption I want to keep that um I think fees for services can go out Transit out election out infrastructure I'd like to keep publication out uh special assessment out and Pathways to policing out I have some questions whenever you okay so Brent can you help me understand what the post direct the post board what's the post board oh i' have to look it up it's uh have to look it up can I just say like I get like being good partners and advocating on the behalf of the sheriff's department and on behalf of Southwest Transit but if we can't explain these they really are priorities here in the city of I just I just forgot the ACC yeah no no no I see what you're saying but you're saying like we if we don't know what it is if it's not on our Collective Radars and you know is there another advocacy route for right the Carver County Sheriff's Office versus the cities and the pathway which doesn't mean that we can't I'm sorry to interrup but which doesn't mean that we can't bend represent Nash's ear about Pathways to policing I don't feel that I know enough about Pathways to policing I don't know what the post report is I don't I know I mean I know that they are having trouble recruiting new people I don't know that as the city I have know enough can do enough to help you to to to fix that problem through your required trainings that's that seems a little out of our scope and as much as like I said I support our police force I I don't know that this is one that it's the peace officer standards and training board thank you andone feel free to use at is a support thing I don't I don't a lack of support for cops I don't have a lack of support for mass transit I don't have a lack of support for in nope that's the wrong one I want to keep that one for publication requirements it's just I think we should skinny it down so that it's really clear because I think I wonder if we wouldn't stand out I wonder if everybody else's legislative priorities look like this laundry list and if we have five things and are excuse me succinct and can say what they are yeah and I wasn't mean to imply that you were not in in support of it but I just as as city of Carver Council I don't know that we can support this in a way that they need it so then we have other priorities that are higher for us um I agree with the first the obviously the first two with the flooding I did want to mention and this is a little one detail word smithing it says the current 55-year-old Levy that protects Carver when I first read that I thought maybe we say surrounding protecting is a little strong like we you don't need one it's already protecting us so I don't know think about it maybe you want to can find a better when I said where where are you looking so when you're looking at the very first one which is the flood prot flood protection infastructure the bonding bill it says the current 55y old Levy that protects the Carver's historic downtown I was thinking protect seems a little like well it's protecting us do we need this bonding Bill I just don't like that word do we want to say it's surrounding the city something like that it separates the city that's I don't want to get into word smithing this but that's the language that we've been using and if you R the rest of that sentence it was removed from the Army corp's program because of its state of disrepair of course yep and I yep and I read the the whole thing that stuck out if everyone else is fine I'm not going to word Smith this whole thing but there's a couple words that stuck out to me that a little I'm fine with keeping it okay no one else feels strongly to me it just felt a little bit um counter intuitive to what we're looking for um let's see um when we're talking about the meetings uh remote participation we put in there in private settings um do we want to put something about for health and safety I mean we were we talk about covid-19 pandemic so when we talk about this one and saying part part of the reason that we want to to be able to participate remotely and in a private setting is for the we health and wellness because you know if I'm have a cold and I chose not to come in I can still do that from home but I'm not going to go sit at the co Caribou Coffee shop with my cold and sit on there because I have to be in public space so I'd like to see some type of wording in there that just references that it's in a private setting something about health and wellness because that's that's why we're doing um I'm also fine with can I just I'm just thinking that through um I don't want it to be limiting because what if it's because of travel what if Joy is in China you know I don't hate it and I get where you're coming from but I just don't want it to limit us and again um I guess because we're in the midst of it and we're looking at trying to punch this forward I think that has a little punch behind it right now I would like to see it I guess the rents of the council can weigh in if they think it's important enough or not I don't want to see it okay it's too okay I do you don't I I I don't want to necessarily see just health and safety because it could be for any kind of flexibility reason okay could be travel could be I'm stuck at home with taking also monitoring a parent or I whatever right there could be a lot of different reasons from a flexibility standpoint okay I'm comfortable with the verage uh um I'm sorry the election there was the election one so the election regulations can go that one can go special assessment so when it says it should be reduced to 15% can you tell me is there why this one came on the radar here yes so right now we're required to assess 20% of the property or 20% of the project to the properties that are participating if you remember the I think it was the 2017 project we were in a position with the Swanson's where if we reduce their assessment we would have fallen below that 20% and we wouldn't have been able to fund that project so what happens right now is we um we use a name it's Escape an appraisal process where they come up with what that value is and that's the amount that we assess I would say kind of the process of yester year is cities just assess 20% or in some cases 50% and what happens if you assess for less than that the project goes to a um has to be voted on by residents and so that you need to assess at least 20% what we're saying is we're assessing what that appraisal amount says so if it's 15% that's the amount that they justifiably oh we don't want to try to manufacture our way to get up to 20% just so that we can do the street Project without an election does that make sense okay do we have many more of those situations facing our city hopefully not that's what that's what I thought your answer would be okay I can't I mean I'm totally J myself but I can't think of any special assessment project I mean we've done um all the areas all like in the last 10 years like entire downtown the lens Edition there are likely be one in the future for for the city to to use I would say it's not a clear president like y we we really need to do that we've just experienced it we I think we have a good story of like we're in a position where we had to do some uh mathematical gymnastics to make sure we stayed at that 20% and we want to try to avoid that again in the future yeah is there something going through right now in with this statute besides us I mean is there another are there other cities who are yeah it's part of uh I don't have the number in front but it's it's something that's been discussed at the league and something that they're advocating for okay because it's a to your point it's a it's not a Carver specific problem it's a ongoing problem with a lot of municipalities because people are switching to this method where you get um you have an appraiser do a benefit analysis and they say like well this property benefits by 5,000 you add them all up well it's not 20% of the project and so then you can't use the 429 process which is that special assessment bonding Authority so it's really in a lot of in some cases I will say throwing a wrench into how people or how cities do Street reconstruction projects okay so I would advocate for that one staying back in we've had some pain in the past and I don't want to if hopefully we don't have to see so much pain in the future um but out of the ones that you had mentioned Courtney that is the one that I would like to see back in Lori Joy um and let's say we're at 10 to 7 do you want to take a break and come back to this during the meeting I agree with chrisy Mock's assessment of which ones align with what you had mentioned and then adding that one um I just want to make a public comment that the pathways to policing as much as I would like to consider that a high priority I just don't don't want to focus on one industry so kind of thinking all right you know I know there's other industries that have some of the same challenges you know we're we're just got to limit you know what our top priorities are Jo I like your skining down idea I like adding the special assessment one back in that's the one right but I like the idea of skinning it down to really what is near and dear to carers priorities list um absolutely so are we okay then um I'm just trying to go through and highlight what we what we said no to so it's essentially removing fees for services transit systems election regulations publication requirements and Pathways to policing yeah yep yes okay I was looking for contact okay um all right that good clear um all right can we hold the city manager's report okay then I would entertain a motion to adjourn I'll make a motion to adjourn I'll second a motion by council member mcnight and a second by council member s all those in favor say I I same sign motion passes thank you