is a majority of our landscape architecture work and park design so he's going to do some slides on the DNR Grant and then collectively we can all have a discussion having both of us as part of the conversation so tonight we are talking about Creek Side Park which is located near the Bluffs neighborhood along Jonathan k Parkway and County 40 the second picture on the slide right now is current conditions so it's currently well that's not actual current current conditions on a beautiful summer day um largely being used right now for public services storage so see that there's a chain link fence surrounding the site as well as a gravel pathway primarily storage is in the center so if you drive past you'll see some different material stored by public services historically the site has been used as our wastewater treatment facil fac so this is from our GIS from I think 2010 that showed the ponds that are there as well as a lot of the infrastructure so just some history the city owns the entire site we have for a long time so this would be a reuse of the site and and infill development of a park is it does are does our ownership include that weird uh six-sided piece there as well okay so the city owns this piece here and then this one as well I believe this is where the H property I'm not sure kind of where the Carver is going down okay okay great so a lot of the information that I gathered was by an article by Nick Mason from 2012 it is the longest article but it made me really that was was a long article I got so much information if anyone needs about this site I Know It All right so in 2012 is when we connected to the Met consol's sewer line something that I thought was appropriate was Brent had a quote in 2012 that said I'm sure at some point the city council will sit down and take a look at it that's here we are the project largely kicked off with the parks master plan in 2018 but as we start to move forward with some programming and some grant opportunities we thought this would be a good time to get the concept in front of you again and do a little introduction on the DNR grant that we will be seeking funding for so again current conditions of the site this picture here shows some of that storage so you can see large area in the center being used for storage with the fencing along we've seen several Concepts through this process we've like any park idea that we've had we've tried to fit at this park at some point um there was a sleding hill at one point that got shut down pretty quick we had a yard way site that changed so things that have always remained are the dog parks the dog park moving forward will be there as well the frisbee golf and then just the infrastructure Improvement so things like parking um we have some information about like drinking fountain so utility things like that as well as um just some different options that we've explored in the park sting Hill didn't work it's actually a bluff so we can't mess with it would have required some grading yard way site there are some other opportunities that were pursued where caret residents have different places to ringard waste and then we largely had an area that was just to be programmed so we're were keeping empty space as we continue to develop some of our parks to see what fits there nicely so we also talked about that entrance off of 40 JCP right that was kind of expensive and yeah kind of it's like that would have crushed the budget pretty quickly should we have come off C 40 instead of G so through this work we also have partnered with an organization called Great River Greening so they are working on site cleanup Creek in this area um Brent Erin and I sat in a meeting with Lucius and Todd from Great River Greening last week and when I tell you they're two of the smartest people I've ever sat in a room with like the things I can talk about we all just I'm going to speak for all of us but just like smiled and nodded along with the level of detail they know about this Creek so it's largely uh steering Bank stabilization so there's a lot of erosion in the creek that we have recognized could be cleaned up we actually have also learned a lot about the site that the creek actually used to run along the back lines of the bluff Lots so the creek was actually relocated several decades ago interesting so and in that the creek actually got shorter which is caused a lot of erosion because there's more water traveling through it so through the work with Great River Greening they're working to lengthen the creek in really simple terms which is interesting and something that I don't know a ton about but it's been really interesting to land through this process can I ask a question do they know if they would lengthen it in that park or different parts so it is in the Park area it's the furthest like West kind of how the creek comes down on the Westerly side of the plane you can see all of the lines together so it pulls the creek away from the road a little bit so so I'm sorry how do you Creek you make it Meander more yeah okay um and then you can make like the river bed a little bit wider the creek bed wider so working with them they are a bit further along in their work than we are in the park development so we are U kind of playing off their work to say have this Creek in really good shape and then we'll react to it with the frisbee golf so the frisbe golf might need to adjust a little bit but we'll still be in this park based on new Creek location so a lot of that work is cited to happen this fall um there's going to be a lot of stabilization and then also some reforestation in this area to make sure that the creek can continue to be healthy after a pretty significant investment of $260,000 we have a $30,000 match required that will come be coming from Park dedication over the next 3 to five years of the gr so that's the pro Great River Greening which we're excited about we also are partnering with them hopefully on Riverside Park so somewhere to come hopefully on another Park project with Great River Greening they have been a really great partner to the city th far are we still considering the volunteer event we hope so but it'll just depend on the timing of the events yeah okay okay what's that so with some of the reforestation we um as part of the Grant application we offered a volunteer event to potentially do some treatment I think our interested and the master gers would be happy we'll you posted that happens okay so this is the plan by Great River Greening again so much information that I don't really understand but they're doing really good work and it's going to be a great project so the creek will likely look a little bit different awesome yeah so moving into um some information I'm going get to that one for now so moving into the new part concept that were developed um you can see that we've been against the just the visuals of it a little bit to make it feel more like a park make it a little more visually pleasing than some other versions that we were looking at previously I'd ask tonight that we focus on the things that are in yellow so we are proposing tonight to phase the park so um the DN Grant will cover a portion of the work that we hope to do and it's the things in yellow so blue would be phase two so thinking about yellow things that we've programmed in this area again L large dog park small dog park um you'll see the addition of pickle ball courts I know that's something a lot of people are talking about right now it seems to be like the new It Sports so pickle ball you'll also see that the parking is flipped we previously had it along County Road 40 it's flipped to the uh back side of the park now which we think offers a better visual design but it also makes the site work a little bit better so thinking through some of those details uh there's a picnic shelter again with future in the blue so some trail work frisbee golf uh Trail askas Etc so overall this is a layout for the park and then thinking through um that stuff so the phase one breakdown so the things in yellow are these your slides Jonathan am I going ahead oh go ahead no this is covering it great um yeah so I mean I think actually I think you're probably better covering this stuff than I am but um yeah essentially what we looked at doing was phasing the project um and I can get a little more into an explanation of you know how we arrived at um phase one items versus the overall plan but um essentially estimated phase one total project is about $810,000 um the DNR um outdoor R Grant uh so the funding request through that would be about $350,000 which is the maximum Grant amount that's that's offered through that program um and that would leave this the city um the city portion of the funding at 460,000 um and I'll kind of give a little bit more background on the program and um just so you have a sense of what that is for those who might not be familiar with it I'm not sure if the city of caror has used this program before I don't believe you I know Brent you said you have it previous previously yeah not recently yeah so so this is a grant through the DNR um and this is one that uh we frequently use with clients um who are pursu pursuing Park projects especially larger Park projects um the maximum Grant award is 350,000 but it can be as little as 10,000 um and it's a it's a 50% uh match so so if you're being awarded 350,000 the project would have to be at least $700,000 um and the the overall purpose of the the program is to increase and enhance outdoor recreation facilities in local and Community Parks throughout the state so um cities uh counties different municipalities can can uh apply for this grant um with the purpose of enhancing their park system um are these sorry is this the grant that we got for like the I can't it's been a long time for the archery range things like that down there that was prior to me oh okay I got some grants from the DNR down there I also can't remember I wrote them long we did get money back okay okay here's G funding yeah very well could have been um they have they have a specific list of um amend of elements that can be funded um and you typically have to include at least one of those and and they have like secondary amenities that um can be funded in in conjunction with those primary amenities but um the the DNR kind of decides um or scores your application based on um primarily on this uh scor or state comprehensive outdoor recreation plan and so the goals of this plan um change every year and so these are kind of the criteria that they've identified for this year for the grant submitt um and so uh these factors 60% into your Grant application um you're scoring based on these these items and then the other 40% is some uh additional criteria that they've identified um but essentially the scorp this year looks uh at focusing on connecting people to the outdoors so really looking at um improving accessibility and connectivity um through kind of a multimodal transportation plan so uh connecting heads and bike facilities um vehicular connections things like that um acquiring land and creating opportunities um so placing a priority on acquisition and development in densely settled rapidly growing areas so you know Carver is rapidly growing I would say and um this is a great opportunity to kind of fill a gap in the park system that uh that the city has seen um taking care of what we have with regular reinvestment to ensure safe high quality experiences for current and future users so I think you know utilizing this existing site um and see seeing the kind of the potential with it for a park is is a great example of that and then uh coordinating among Partners uh by creating integrated and accessible information and enhancing coordination across jurisdictional boundaries this kind of sits right on the edge of town and I think there's opportunities that this facility would be used by um adjacent jurisdictions as well um and just to give an idea of the timeline associated with this so this is not a quick process by any means um so it it takes some time um so essentially the overall process uh would span through uh June of 2025 for construction um so this year we'd be looking at uh tonight the council Workshop kind of getting um buy in on the the master plan and pursuing this uh Outdoor Rec Grant um we'd probably after that we'd post the plan online and uh look for opportunities for public comments on the plan um and then from there looking at in early March taking the plan to council for adoption of the the overall master plan um submitt for the initial Grant would be by March 10th and so that would that's kind of the early uh application timeline and that allows the DNR to provide feedback on our grant um they'll provide feedback and opportunities for us to strengthen our grant and things that we could consider to to make it more um competitive and then the final application would be du March 31st um this summer we would see they would announce the winners of the grant Awards and then from there the final design of the park would occur in the fallowing winter um 2024 we'd bid the project and then construction would begin uh in the fall of 2024 um with a completion date of June of 2025 so what we're looking for tonight is uh just an affirmation on the updated concept get some feedback on it and then looking for your support of us going for the in our Grant application also say should we not be successful with the Grant application development of this park is not likely just based on cost um some other priorities we might have we might be able to do some of the work in the park but largely looking for that DNR funding to fill a pretty big gap that we're looking to fill for Creekside Park so we are open to comments questions and then obviously we'll continue working with Great River green since that is already underway what are some of the positives we had we have for writing this grant that we going to score us higher what are some of the things that going to score us better um Ada and accessibility is a huge one so any improvements that are done um that we want funding for need to be accessible that's a huge criteria for them um so um that in addition to just connectivity and I think this is a this park does a great job at connectivity I mean we're connecting to that trail along JCP that essentially connects throughout the entire Community um so say another piece is that it's a Redevelopment site so this isn't right in a new neighborhood that's in a former farm field it's by some definitions maybe a little bit blighted and so like there's a higher Better Community use it also has some pretty significant connections via the County trail system um we can eventually dig into um the US fish and wildlife trail system is kind of a Stones throw away so I and then frankly the Great River Greening investment I think enhances kind of that partnership commitment which are at least a lot of the elements that we've had success in other DNR grants and other state funding projects so that's kind of what initially kind of caught our interest and then we started having a bigger discussion about this yeah the protection of Natural Resources too is uh is important so having that Creek running through the site and knowing that this park is going to be there and it's going to be acting to help protect the creek it's self and then the Bluffs too um is a big asset as well have we ever talked to the the whatever Association is on Carver Creek Circle right there about getting outlot B Because and I'll just give purpose why so outlot B obviously is fairly flat it's basically the same as this overgrown but back when I did Park and rack there was talk about trying to get a trail through there so I did walk it with a little wheelie and you can then get up to the entrance of Bluff Park and the entrance to the US fish and wildlife which is another connectivity piece yeah we have it's somewhere between s and 10 years ago but they they were only interested if the city would take all of Carver boss Parkway that middle green area and then there were some other HOA pieces so was kind of like yes but you have to you'd have to take all these other areas too and have to time the Cil wasn't interested in grabbing the whole lot so since that you know know almost a decade has passed I mean maybe it's worth another discussion with them um try to do something I think we talked recently contacts at the HOA yeah Dave told us it was going to be a really hard thing to do because you have to have a certain percentage of HOA members we looked at it for our sanitary sewer project this says Trail not sewer I think it it wasn't the usage if I'm remembering correctly it was the getting a quum they needed to vote for it and in favor of it and getting an HOA together and it was just going to be logistically more trickier than agreement and Dave described it potentially as going door to door didn't he yeah and used a timeline of years and N months I don't understand the years why it would take years if getting everything I don't remember the detail so we went from quum to years so I was like well I hope take them with years to get a quum he thinks it will and getting an agreement and going back and forth I that's what I remember I don't know and it's not just the HOA board it's every every person in that neighborhood and is it just caral Creek Circle that's on that one no it's the whole oh that is okay so that one time I thought they had a different one down there they have a different one on Ridge Crest okay okay but the bigger one is this one okay so that's connected to the hole yeah okay okay okay um be um as long as I'm was talking but for when we put this out to the public um I think it might be a good idea to include some photos of what the amenities will look like not just the overall Park plan I know and because when we've talked about this in the past lighting there's a big they they go a little uh get a little apprehensive with the lighting so yes um so that'll be below yeah I want yep and it was still with a i yep um and I'm I want to I don't want to make the assumption but you know the lighting that we have coming down Sixth Street that's a little more decorative might be something that we would want to have there rather than big overheads in that lot and maybe that would more amenable yeah yeah than having that so I don't know if you guys have discussed if you're even far enough to discuss what lighting options look like there but I think if you're looking at Big Cobra heads we're going to get a lot more push back than we are with something that's a little more decorative and a little bit softer yeah right now um we we are uh budgeting for three lights in the parking lot um and kind of just those standard shoe box style parking lot lights kind of put an LED version so similar to what you'd see at the transit center for example or the school parking lot but um an LED I can't picture those right now are they the big basically Cobra head ones like your big overhead um they're not Cobra head style but they are kind of just a little shoe box yeah it's like a rectangle oh y coldy head is not not protected so you see in most parking lots um we could do a more decorative fixture we just have to um the cost a little bit okay it' be nice to see the difference there I don't know I just think a more decorative one a brand new park would be a little nicer if we could and again the neighbors might find it a little bit easier to tolerate well and think of this as I would say like Steps so like this is like the concept plan right do you like the amenities do you like the location of the amenities if you're successful with the grant then you would direct bton and make to prepare plant in specs and then you can say well we want this type of light versus that one and we'd rather have you know but I'd rather get a little ahead of it when we go to put this out for public comment yes so what timing is that so I mean if we get the grand would we then put it out for do we have a Parks what do we call them not a commission Advisory Group Advisory Group would they be involved what do we think so for the Grant application it largely will be this plan just based on the timing that we have to accomplish sure and then from there uh I would like to think that the DNR probably ties a lot of our work directly to this I don't think we'd have a ton of wiggle room so some sure the parks Advisory Group said hold on we want a hockey rank here in I don't think that's feedback that we'd be able to meaningfully okay so maybe it's just a public opinion or if there's other like so can get more specific on the lightning or light L is there other areas that you want more specificity on um yeah I have some so a couple more questions so um I believe in my con pointing it Aron back there my conversation with you guys about um the trunk um thing we talked about uh the extra enhancement of Jonathan Carver Parkway south of 4th Street coming potentially soon with County do we expect any reconfiguration of that intersection with 40 and JCP to impact the creek routing or the bridge or anything there not that I know right now I don't think it was getting getting that involved for that project we've been in touch with the county as well about this project okay and then the just the sewer project that we're we've been talking about a little bit too it it kind of gets into the entrance drive but it doesn't get into the full Park area so doesn't really have a major oh that goes along is it on the east or west side of gcp so the sewer runs through this site right now but I'm saying if we were to do an upsizing project in a few years we would the the pipe would tie back into the existing system within that first part of the driveway coming in so it's not like you'd be taking out the the parking lot or the pickle ball cour to do that project in the future so okay okay for restroom facilities are is it just going to be porta potties and can we ever hook into a system I mean anytime in the relative future that we could hook into a system for bathrooms yeah we have sewer and water on site so that's not an issue it's just um if you want to do it now or later so right now sh as portable toilets comments um yeah with um in that northwest corner where the shared entrance exit would there be the idea of having a gate in it would be whatever the posted closed hours were just so it doesn't become a target for vandalism or just no one needs to be there at dark way to control that I don't think we do that for any other Park I don't know true but not many parks just have one and know lines Park only has one entrance exit but there's Riverside and that one's real hidden but that's the hard camping overnight what was yeah no I'm just saying like if you want to get in trouble early late hours Riverside's pretty requ staff member you'd have a reason to tell somebody to leave or a reason to make it really hard coverage that runs through the parks at night and I think you have a pretty good light or sight line though from the roges to this I mean yeah from both 40 and JCP I would think and then if you hear any noise in the park everybody up there Rise Up but it might also help if people are concerned about the noise to say well these are the hours or I mean it's OB not to solve now I'm just thinking of like know the concept um and then in the DNR um Grant priorities talks about Partnerships so I would think city of Carver and then Great River uh are there others or is are we considered a partner who are the partners so it's yeah within the fing priorities yeah I I think that's something that we could we could talk about and how we could strategize that um that point um and and under underneath each one of these categories there's a list of probably 10 kind of sub subcategories that they list so I don't want to get into too much detail but there's a lot of um other questions that they ask about each of these um kind of categories that give you opportunities to kind of tie into different Avenues um so I don't know wed might be potentially a partner then Great River Greening and um potentially like uh doen Township or you know some some Carver County Parks Carver County Parks yeah so there could be some Avenues we could explore as far as that too um but I would I would also say you you know you don't necessarily have to hit all these um categories to be successful with the grant um but if we can just speak on some of those Partnerships that'll be helpful all right and then when we've been talking about you know communicating this to the community looking on the that one right there um I think it's really going to be helpful to point out that there's still some unprogrammed spots so like to the northwest of the um first pickleball courts to be built how it says you know Future Park amenity I think that's just really nice that I feel like we have some flexibility um got second phase to this isn't set you know yes some parts over it will be um as far as like what want unprogrammed space yeah and I think a lot of people don't understand what that on program space means and that's where we have it in the blue just as Future Park amenity so if there was a group that felt really passionately about XYZ there is some space for it anything else sorry no thank you ER my question was answered about water and souit I can't imagine going forward with this with um Porta bodies I would think a permanent bathroom facility would make a lot more sense I was actually thinking the same thing but then what I like is with the um Park up at Ironwood um it'll just be interesting to see how that goes over and just like if that's hugely successful we might be able to not have that cost but it could go the other way too we have one person who likes out yes we do what do you work for the city of Burnsville they used to light them on fire all the time I'm glad that we don't have that hope no teens are watching I'm sure they're not do you have anything else Christie um for the uh disc golf course so the actual you know setup for the Disco of course it's it's not that expensive is it more the clearing of the area and prepping that's going to be the expense cuz I I I like that that's coming in we've been asked for that for a decade or more to have something like that so I'm just wondering what our timeline might be if that's really the hold back on the cost is kind of clearing that area and then you know we have to put in a pedestrian bridge what is that do we have an idea when we're looking at that might when that might happen I would say right now now a lot of this work is just dependent on the grant so depends on what your appetite is for it too if this phase two becomes a priority with our Park dedication dollars okay we could set up um a prioritization list of the next parks that we're going to be working on okay uh something else that is a little bit interesting is that there's going to be some fill from Great River greenings work so we'll have some excess material that uh Chad's team could potentially lay throughout the site to make the disc offl a little more exciting instead of just through a flat area so do we and I know that this is going to be real B but any idea what that little pedestrian bridge might cost in today's numbers Jonathan you got anything cuz it's marshy right there right that doesn't turn into a full and I think we could potentially get by with just a cver too across there that would be a lot more cost effective so I think we are Clos like the ones in Ironwood Park were closer to the e just for perspective okay CU you know you end up putting like some concrete abutments act Bridge 20% engineering but it could be could technically suffice in that area okay I think it probably could yeah with the level of flows you can see there so let's go 30 to 80 depending on what our appetite would be okay good Jo I'm good question I like this I love the pickle ball cards I keep hearing from books about pickle ball and it always surprises me like what a broad range pickle of like everybody likes pickle ball so I think that this is good I think that two is a start I think four is going to potentially still leave folks wanting more but I think it's a good start um I do have some concerns about the dog park and not dogs but their people and their people being good humans and cleaning up after them um but I know that this has been in the plan for a long time um I'm glad to see that we're using that existing driveway because I was starting to get really expensive coming in um from the other direction so I think that this is great and we have the opportunity to start working on this for literally Pennies on the dollar so I think we would be foolish if we didn't take this opportunity Grand request so that's it from me um Jonathan Aaron did you guys get what you needed from us on this one yes we all good okay so I think we're all in favor of moving forward with the grant for sure all right okay um moving on uh number three the fire station and public services building project all right thank you mayor and Council so uh tonight we just kind of want to run through kind of a summary of Where we've been with looking at uh Public Services space and fire station space uh one thing I could uh amongst others I really want to point out specifically is tonight we're just looking to have a conversation to have an opportunity to kind of get Refresh on what that space study said and look at some of the recommendations you had so if you look at the bottom of the slide we're going to come back to you at your work session on February 21st and Lynn's going to help lead a discussion on cost scenarios for different project Scopes that you might want to look at and you really really asking the council to consider and this would be the first time uh different Scopes and strategies at your March 6 meeting and it might take longer than that so um as you're taking all this in uh please don't feel rushed that you have to make a decision tonight also recognizing that you know I would say one of the most significant um work plans and conversations the city will have with residents involved building projects and infrastructure Street projects and so we want to make sure that you get what you need prior to kind of going up to the public your community asking for some feedback so just a little bit of History so back in September of 20120 uh the council identified and initiated a request to do a space study to look at public Services um and the fire department start looking at estimates rather than we we had for quite a a while just kind of like a placeholder number in our long-term plan and so this was going to be an exercise to develop a spe a specific square footage as well as a price that we could insert and start having more um I would say detailed conversations on the possible action uh from that in December uh the city brought on W uh which is the same architect and engineering firm that helped us with the city hall project and identified some study objectives uh one to look at the amount of outdoor storage at our existing facility primarily at Jonathan Carver Parkway uh you can see you know just in that photo we have some plows and vehicles outside uh we also have a number of areas throughout the community that'll run through where we have different storage it doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to eliminate all that storage uh but in some some cases we might condense it and maybe use be able to use other spaces in different ways as the city continues to grow the need for services plow trucks and Equipment uh to provide those Services increases uh one of the other study objectives that I think is somewhat kind of like a a moving Target I don't know why that's picture moved up there but looking at the existing 117 Broadway the former fire station or existing uh public services or Public Utilities building that's called for a number of years uh at Main and Broadway um I think just the if you've been down to the new getaway motor Cafe you can can it already start to see that that 100 block on Broadway wants to be something different already uh just with the way that people are seeking parking and so um for decades uh if not longer that space at the end of Broadway has just been kind of its own thing it even though it's next to the downtown it's this big parking area and we've done some things with the tugboat and Community Gardens to try to make it a more Central space but you know one of the things that I've talked to a few of the council members already was talking about trying to organize that parking space um you know separated from a future Park plan or Park Improvement plan that might happen at some point you know in the future looking at a way to coordinate parking and we're actually going to be talking about that at our planning and Engineering meeting tomorrow so maybe some interim um things that we can do to you know make sure that we're providing parking for downtown and our businesses but also maintaining access uh to the public utilities garage we have our brine tank and some other Emergency Equipment in there and so um going to want to be continuing to have a conversation with the Council on parking in that area and what that site looks like in the near term and in the future just want to pause there to see if everyone knows what I'm kind of connecting with on that parking issue I'm going to yeah so I actually talked to Brent about this down at the now that we're have a business that's open down on that end um I actually happened to be in there Thursday night and um my neighbor was working and she said hey I have a question for you there's two ladies who came in they said can we park in front of those garage doors and I said the on that's you no I mean but it's night time you know they're like is it can I okay yeah so I said I wouldn't I said the chances of them having to get out right now are slim but I technically no you shouldn't but then what I've been seeing during the mornings too is that um I guess it's kind of hard to see on Brent's picture there but they're they are parking kind of straight leaving space for the garage doors yes but they are like with a where that bump comes out a little island a little island of parking so I was I had to talk to BR I said I think we really need to like look at some kind of stop Gap about how we just organize that again until we have a bigger plan CU it's just naturally happening so I don't disagree my one comment on that is and this is getting a bit off topic but on the subject of parking you know if we you know if we have a temporary or an early parking lot there I think it's really important to be realistic and not to put 30 parking spots there if once the park concept comes in if and when it ever comes in we have to dial back that number so I don't want to remove parking spots so if that can only accommodate a dozen and they're clearly more there but if there are only a dozen spots available let's not put 13 spots in there so that we because I remember the exercise that we went through for the crossing between Lisa's Place and the gas station and the big thing that we got hung up on as a group was the loss of parking downtown and it wasn't super super significant but I know that we as a group are really in tune to not wanting to lose any spaces downtown and it is stried already in front of the hotel right yes okay there is a one of the things we're work out so the right away is to kind of basically right under the eve of that building and so there's a grass area and so one of the things that I think Jonathan I think you put together this plan as well is it organizes the pedestrian routes so that's a major kind of trail head and so uh I think there's an opportunity to make sure that we're getting as we're adding parking and more vehicular traffic in there that we're also giving pedestrians Safe Harbor and access routes either you know on where that sidewalk is kind of proposed um or on the what would be the east side I guess of that parking area so we can get people safely to that trail um so we'll come back with some options and some scenarios and get some feedback from the Council on timing it might involve an interim where we just do some straping the summer and then uh incorporate it into a larger plan uh when uh main Main Avenue or Main Street West is um has some improvement projects to be done and that's tell sorry I was going to just say that's a really good comment about the bike and pedestrian traffic CU isn't that roughly the area where the future Mar Junction trail is going to shoot out cor yes is that is there more space now from the edge of the building to where the cars are parking is that is that wider than the grass area there right now okay so the hotel y Harley's house and then you that was grass it looks like it you it's paved in this photo is that wider than what is there right now than the grass the this in front I don't know okay I know it's I just didn't know if it was I believe that was the um Job trailer for the construction site it probably just hasn't it's all grass now no I know yeah I don't know I got you okay I'm not sure what you're talking about this right here yes thank you and and up as it goes yeah yeah okay and that okay so we don't know I mean this is conceptual obviously if that would be wider or I would hate for it to be any smaller even though there may yeah it look it just from the naked eye it looks wider so cuz if you look at it like right now the vehicles that park right in front of the getaway motor Cafe would be closer to the building and this concept shows something I think getaway and the col might be interested in is uh widening that sidewalk and kind of um putting out a a pork chop or peninsula there to have some out yes never heard did har you know when we when we reconed that street too nice um the only reason I'm saying is I want to be sensitive to the heartley that I would prefer it to be wider than narrower because people's you know the front of their cars are really close the way it is so if it's wider I'm actually happier with that yep it should hopefully give them more of a defining space and uh kind of keep people on of their area because technically the the sidewalk that is kind of under that E I think is actually in the city right away if you think of like col sidewalks in the downtown work so um taking all those things you know we're going to want to make a U propose a project that's sensitive to them and get away motor Cafe Etc uh so moving forward one of the other items is uh separating the turnout gear in the main apparatus Bay for for the uh public services or not for the fire department and chief trimo on hand C would you mind just kind of sharing with the council just kind of some talking points again on what the significance is of um getting that turnout gear separated the apparatus cancer is a huge thing in the fire service nowadays um we just went through cancer awareness month of January um and really it's about preventing anything that we can for the firefighters so as we know when we start the trucks up it puts diesel exhaust into the into the bay along with after we fight the fires the hose and everything that's been in the fire is exposed to significant cogens and um all the toxic chemicals that come out of the fire along with our turnout gear now we do do special things with our turnout gear as we do bag them up and put them in a washer that we have but they still off gas a little bit um in in the base so it's really trying to prevent any of those chemicals or toxins to be where we're working on an ongoing basis whether we're doing drills or you know coming and responding to calls things like that so it's um this plan would theoretically put our turno gear in a safer place um off to the side that we would have special Lighting in there because UV rays and fluorescent lights are also bad for a turnout gear it breaks them down prematurely so um it would take away the light and the UV rays and also get the turnout gear out of areas where we are working thanks KY U so one of the other study objectives was to identify short-term Solutions and a master plan so there are opportunities as you'll see as we can continue to go through this project where there's some short-term recommendations or Scopes that you can consider there's also a master plan concept for the full site um and the council also prioritize using existing existing City owned properties and so so um that's why you see us focused on our existing site at 801 Jonathan carber Parkway so this an aerial uh view of the site the to the South that's the fire station apparatus Bay on North side of the building is public services the the middle part of the building is shared um you can see in the kind of the northwest corner kind of the for those of you familiar with quanset Huts it's kind of a quanset Hut looking structure one of those now you're destroy no don't like at St Peter and Paul's Elementary School in St CL they old 1940s like metal curv R and A War II area and that's where we got our lunchroom we might have had it we just called it a shed a uh my brothers and sister laughing somewhere right think I went to see Peter but it was in uh so a picture of our main building at 801 Jonathan Carver Parkway um just for some reference uh here you can see the turnout gear stored in the apparatus Bay the fire station and how it's uh has its proximity to our existing Vehicles do you get to add your own pictures above your turno here or do you uh are those for fun no we take them on an ongoing basis okay all right let's keep going sorry uh our existing Public Public Services storage bu at 117 Broadway again this is the former fire station this is the uh the space that we were just talking about in relation to one 100 block of Broadway um kind of a little history piece on this of how far we've come this is the Public Service of storage at Lions Park which actually was the city's main facility uh for Public Works prior to the new Fire Station being built um on Jonathan Carver Parkway so to think that they operated out of one garage door for decades is pretty amazing um this is storage at our existing water treatment plant and again uh you know some of these items are going to remain you know you're going to have generators and trucks in our existing garages we're not the proposal isn't get rid of all that um at some point you know just based on conversations and plans at some point the existing facility at uh 17 Broadway might go away uh but this what this does is ADD uh or what the space study does is ADD space um you know this is something that might end up going away where rather than starting a more at a space at at the bottom of a water tower you might find a a space in a new storage uh garage for that for p of bance access Etc so to get to the findings in May of 20121 they were presented to the council uh kind of put them down into scope so scope one is the construction of about 99600 Square ft on the existing site kind of just west of the building kind of where the fenced in exterior storages um at that time an estimated project cost of 2.3 million uh trout gear concept uh 820 ft addition to the south side of the fire station at the time estimated at about 420,000 and then we had a master plan concept that looked at um having the fire station take over the whole existing facility and then a new facility as an add-on to whatever space um the city added it on um for the uh garage space that we'll be looking at so kind of some visual represent ations so this is at 9600 ft area kind of wraps around the existing kind of monopolar cell cell tower that's in the area um and then you can see on the bottom here uh fire station trout gear storage um separated by a wall and having its own HVAC system for ventilation purposes kind of a summary of the master plan again so as you can see the building to the right the existing building you know undetermined year but at some point fire department takes over the whole building and goes into a fire station um full build out of that 2024 Public Services building uh that's that's in the master plan so that it's an extension of what we' build hypothetically in 2024 with some additional offices uh at the time to do a complete build out in May of 21 looking at a a $7 million project cost in addition we'd have to do some on-site ponding work as as some of you may recall kind of on the south side of the building to your left there's a um storm water Pond uh facility that we would have to relocate um at some additional cost should we move forward at some at some point in time with the master plan um a piece that I wanted to introduce and that kind of Chad's going to help us out with a little bit here is uh looking at opportunity to do some building uh facility and maintenance U this is essentially a financing question at some point to to some degree we're going to have to do some pretty significant maintenance to the existing facility and so we're looking to have a conversation and get some feedback from the council eventually on H how you want that financed and so uh essentially break broken down into the roof rooftop HVAC units and steal storage facility uh they're percolating to a point where we're going to you know this year need to be thinking about including them in our long-term financial and capital plan you know anywhere from 1 to five plus years depending upon priorities and costs Etc um so um wanted to have a conversation uh about that here you have a little bit of background on some maintenance funding strategies um typically this is our under a that's our kind of our annual budget as it relates to building repair and maintenance in the general water and sanitary sewer funds if we have a significant project we can look at an in fund loan uh we haven't done that but it's a it's a I think a pretty solid way to finance projects in try without interest and bond costs um based on kind of what you hear in your priorities related to maintenance um we might want to consider you might want to consider financing some of those over 20 years um just because of the economies of scale as it relates to doing a big building project and so uh with that I'm going to turn it over to Chad just to if you can just walk us through a counil through the rof the rof top HB units and the Sal storage facility so we were we're looking at kind of from a big scope picture the salt storage is a 60x 40 and it holds about 400 ton so as the city grows gets more streets um right now that that capacity halfway through the year we've used up about 300 ton of salt so we're just trying to plan we could reskin this for maybe $15,000 15 to 20 but some of those support structures this this uh structure has been in for almost 20 I believe 21 years so the uh the contractor that we met with uh to look at this building was very surprised that um some of those uh steel structures were still standing because they they must have done something in the process but it's still in pretty good shape the biggest piece is the outer structure if that would tear then that salt would get wet and then just like I like planning for the future we want to be able to um keep the same footprint but extend it to the West um there's a few different sizes that we could go we could go up to almost 100 million ton of salt in there uh just in that footprint Chad do you buy all the salt preseason or do you get more as the winter go The Cooperative salt purchase agreement actually runs from June 1st to June 1st so our budget runs from January to December so we typically buy um like in January and then again before June does that answer your question well I just you were saying that there's about 400 T that you keep in there at once yes and that we then you said 300 ton tell me that's how much we use in the year that's about depending on the snow and the events we're actually this is the first year that we're tracking our salt usage but it's it's about half full right now okay so if we were to run out we would have to purchase more do we have budget for that yes okay yeah okay we actually ordered some today okay so when you have good need it um when you have the 400 ton in there is that all the way to the front stack in there yes it Stacks up the blocks um around the perimeter are about 4 feet high so it's mounded up 4 feet high on the on the outsides so we've never gone through a winter though where we've actually used all the salt since you've been here since I've been here no the last couple of events haven't really been that bad we've gotten close a few times or you can use some tonight right right but I'm saying with with what you have for storage there you've been able to get by with what's in there so it's not like we you needed 200 more at one point and no the the biggest piece for the the design of it is having the the steel columns or supports sitting in the salt this new design would would alleviate that okay CU at some point those supports are going to rust through there's already um you can see the closeup in the bottom right hand corner they're already starting to deteriorate because they're sitting in the salt is this the same product used for the brine yes y it's just straight back so okay um as far as um like the the HVAC maintenance we do have a a private service contract um that comes out and does the servicing on the units they're in good health Kelly and I have been talking over the last uh couple of years and we were talking of replacing one unit for the next five years at the Public Services fire department um and then the the roof maintenance again it's the same company that um or another private contractor that does the spring and fall roof maintenance inspections um we've been monitoring one leak uh at the at the building at least since I've started and it's just uh we keep monitoring and and if it gets worse you know we'll have to put it in that long-term plan we've talked about it a few times and um we wanted to get the riptop or the HVAC units done first and then the roof so the hbac units are a 20year piece of equipment um so they um 2023 is when the fire station was built I believe so Public Services fire station so I believe they're at the end of their life also if you think about us doing one unit at a time we're also bringing out a Cran each time so there's also some additional costs that could be saved by doing it all at once versus um versus doing each one individually because otherwise you're bringing out a crane each time to lift them off and them Mech on have any of them failed then at this point we have we a couple years was it two years ago we ended up putting in a new heat exchanger in one of them correct yes yep that was probably three years ago well the reason I ask is because you know the lifespan they say is 20 but if they're still in good operational order and I don't know why we want to spend money on it now of course we don't want them all the way down at once but I'm just trying to be this is a lot of money here so I'm trying to be responsible with things that maybe don't that aren't it's not necessary right now doesn't mean a few years we won't have to look at it again we have looked back at some of the uh inspection logs that the contractor has done and the ones that kind of keep on nickel and Diving us those are the ones that we had scheduled to to talk about replacing the agback units okay and I'm sorry how many of them were there again uh I believe there's is there four I believe so four so I'm sorry going back to the Sal storage for that 2 to 250 does that get you a larger building in addition to a you talked about yes it's a little bit different design um but it would also double capacity okay and I feel differently than you do chrisy on the HB units on the roof if we're making all these improvements to the building it seems silly especially when we have the opportunity to bond for everything together you know if four of those units I want to make sure I'm looking at the right line if we have a really bad year and even if half of them poop out on us that's $100,000 or $80,000 you know like that's a lot of money that we would have to come up with then knowing the parameters of our budget that would be something that would be a really tough hole to bill so I think knowing what we know now and hearing that there's a need I think that we would be best suited to replace them all when we're making improvements to that building and I you know want to emphasize like when I say scope refinement needed like this is you know look at this the same as you would like the concept plan for the park I mean it's these are if you are interested in the topic we can really dig in and have like you know the Architects look at to do an assessment get an idea of what would be needed um so like these are intentionally like the range is wide and the price is high because you know it's we haven't been in good situations where we've over promised and underd delivered on cost and we come back and say know just in recent memory like the city hall when we had to do a cost adjustment you know that caused some heartburn and so we want to start high hopefully get lower but not make it so conservative that the numbers are ridiculous where you would even consider does that make sense so if we add on the fire department El Cove I was call that um for the turnout gear is that able to hook into the current HVAC system or are we going to have to add additional units for that it would be a separate HVAC unit for that one room that one okay is that is that because of it needs to filter differently because of we don't want it circulating with the existing okay so can I'm sorry is that all included in here that's included in the the number for the fire it is included okay so you can kind of if you kind of Follow The Path and you know as far as building construction goes these numbers are kind of a moving Target just based on our economy and the bid landscape but you know the 2020 space study numbers you know a lot has happened in the in the world since then our long-term financial plan has the numbers listed as of 2022 and talking with Wold and kind of looking at bidding uh we think at least scope one and scope two are are probably more reasonable but again you know the next phase of this would be cutting the Architects loose on doing design development not creating construction drawings but you know meeting with the fire department meeting with public services you know defining that scope um and then coming back to the council with an estimate think of it as like if you're going to do like your basement want to redo your basement or finish off your basement the contractor could give you um a price per square foot of a normal basement but once you start figuring out if you're going to put a bathroom or a fireplace in there the numbers start looking different and so frankly we need to go through that exercise with whatever Scopes you're interested in pursuing so that we can show you what you'd get for an estimated cost right now this is basically theyve given us a number of costs per square foot for a box and so the next step would be letting that number evolve based on what the needs are in conversations again every step of the way the council um looking at that so um on the high side we priced out a scope at 1.1 million for build maintenance we believe that's just if everything needed to be replaced at the highest cost um and then uh for conversational purposes if you looked at the master plan and you just built the whole public services space right away that full build out would be just under 6 million so you know as we move forward with these next steps we're hoping at some point uh this July to get to a completed design where then we can have the council determine what Scopes we'd want to move forward with for public engagement um and then also including in a in a bid at some point um and again those numbers are likely to change uh but we're hoping based on kind of our pre-work that they wouldn't change uh significantly um and again some of this noted in the comment on the bottom we have um designated funds in water and sanitary sewer to pay for at least of Public Service aside since uh water and sanitary sewer services are provided out of Public Services uh so just kind of looking at schedule so you know September 2020 through August of 2022 um we kind of kind of went through that I would note uh we have done a little bit of Engagement October 21 uh the mayor's message had kind of a recap of the space study that we did in the fire station and public services um but kind of fast forwarding to today uh we wanted to give you that project update get the Council on the same page as far as what the Dynamics of the project were and the scoping exercise or opportunities for you to choose from at your next work session on the 21st lenn's going to be leading a conversation on the impact of these different scenarios as it relates to Levy as it relates to impact on an average value home and then if you're ready uh the council can consider verifying that school proceeding with design drawings from all again not construction drawings but you know doing that next level of analysis and scoping so that we can have a more refined project scope and a more refined cost uh related to that and then moving forward uh we go from March through June to get that done have uh in June July have the city council review that design and cost estimates once you felt secure in that process then we'd start kind of all forms of community engagement you try to I think we had some pretty good success with the city hall process doing listening sessions newsletter articles you know putting uh residents and other stakeholders in a position where they can come to a meeting and not feel like the decision is being made that night but just kind of ask questions share their thoughts and so we can be I think pretty deliberate with that um getting into K of November toward the end of the year you know if you're to the point where you feel like comfortable with cutting the engineers loose on construction grinds uh you can start that formal process starting in November uh to issue that city project start the fin ing process which would be a capital Improvement bond which would be similar to what the city issued for the city hall project and then uh they did Will did tell us to plan for some construction material lead time especially with the public services building on the materials uh but essentially building construction in August of 24 and completion in May of 25 if everything went as we are thinking that would today but again this is just a concept not not only in like the Project Dynamics but like the actual process dynamics of where the community is at how confident you feel what information you need all those things are going to impact how this schedule might look but uh the purpose of this was to kind of give you kind of a 5,000 foot view of like these are all the things that we're considering and if you want something more emphasized in a different way we can do that but we're we're kind of you know in the kitchen with the ingredients you have to tell what you want added more what you want taken out of that recipe uh so looking at again what we're asking tonight is basically to update you on these three scope areas uh we're going to come back uh on February 21st with some financial information I think a critical thing that we want to maybe leave tonight with is if you have any like immediate reactions really absolutely not absolutely yes more of this I'm going to need to have this information in order to to make a decision on this any anything that we can do that in the end will help you justify whatever decision you want to make um on this topic so with that I'll turn it back to the council all right thank you T you want to go first sure thing um so the thing i' want to understand in the financials is um I know we've been kind of watching our um debt plan over time right and kind of how this would fit into that um I'm seeing in the project timeline that it sounds like the financing approvals would be in early 24 so I assume that's when we bid and that and we would start our debt right so just kind of understanding how that plays with all the other debt we have I know some of it is coming down and so it's just replacing that and kind of how much kind of that sort of scale that would be really important for me to understand um from a financial perspective that's all I can think of right now you guys go um on this slide is the scope in a certain order it's not order of priorities is it it's not order just yeah it's not an order of priority scope one and two um I separated them out because there are different you know financing mechanisms that might go into that and I and because there different departments P one out you know I I think you'd have a depending upon where land I think any one of them would be kind of it was somewhat difficult to finance internally okay without putting a strain on the city's finances so you you're probably looking at a bond it's just a matter of how much um and over what period and the terms Etc so you're not asking us which one we H prioritize higher no if there I mean I would say if you know as an example you just said I just don't believe we need vehicle additional vehicle and Equipment storage you might say like I gu I don't support scope one I don't think it's needed at this time or within the next 5 years I do support scope 2 for the fire department and I'm interested in the maintenance like if that was a position of you or other members of the council it would be helpful to to understand that because we don't want to exert resources and time on maybe a scope that the council just doesn't feel comfortable with or like maintenance or like Well we'd rather just that as a part of the annual maintenance plan we're not interested in financing that so let's not even pursue that or we're only um interested in the self storage building the other two you know will take take as it comes that type of feedback been not helpful to us yes I guess I would support all of them if I were to prioritize them it's just scope two I would put on top and then scope one and then scope three it's a scope three I like in that I don't want to be in a situation where I say oh I didn't know we had something that was 20 years old and it's expected to fail any day so I just even though this might not be till 2005 but just knowing that there's a plan for something like one of the four major H HB AC things so that reason what would help me is and maybe it's just like for me with numbers for the new dollar M that we have um like break out how much it is per square footage so like the storage must be like looks like a little under $300 per square footage versus the turnout gear you're looking at almost $600 for square footage that just helps me cuz I like I can see I wouldn't want to pay $600 square footage for storage not that I really know what the average is but if I were to compare it to you know W do we need something that nice or like is this going to be do what we need so just break it down is that an is that a want for like the completed design or the pre-design um cuz I would if I could add like the completed design will be the more real number based on what staff is saying should go into that the predesign is that conceptual number based on I would say arbitrary factors in some instances so the later part okay yeah that I think that would be more helpful because I think you're right I mean you could come up what if it's 300 better at math than I am 300 square foot on that um 33% 33% would let I wouldn't argue that that would it kind helps too like I don't want somebody to come and say wow you spend that much for that size and then yeah just okay that's good you know we when we come back at some point with that completed design um we'll have that broken out as you requested so you can get a sense of how that compares and hopefully uh we can show that up against maybe other similar projects so you can have a ref Point anything else so I'm in support of all three um as we're talking about square footage I just assume that's because it's specialized storage we're not talking about a container we're talking about specific ventilation and all the requirements for the turnout gear so we you we just make sure we speak to that so the only comment I have at this point in scope three is if we're talking about uh the roof on our largest surface area Roof I think maybe in 2024 it's worth looking at doing a study on the ROI for solar C he doesn't have that that would seem a logical place to look at that I don't know enough about that I think we probably have a resident expert here on putting solar on your roof but I'm sure the state has grants available for commercial and City buildings um I know they've been buting that not just from a state budget perspective but also from the um inflation reduction act um Soh for we're going to consider it all buildings so our surface area might as well maximize it so if we're making plans around that and putting in replacing the hbac units this would absolutely be the time to do that kind of study and you know the ROI on solar is completely different than it was 10 years ago and I think it's probably been a long time since there's been any consideration of it it's a good point my right I know I want those that could be one of those um I mean I think we scope one and two obviously I'm fully supportive of uh scope three I we don't want our roof leaking obviously I think that needs to be taken care of I'm a little unsettled about changing out things that currently are working um it doesn't sound like the rest of the council has that same feeling but I do um agree with joy I want to see how that is affecting the rest of those numbers as we move forward because again this is a lot of money and I want to see how that fits into that okay um I just before you go I just want to express it in finish I support all of this I like that we're putting the building maintenance big pieces in there because remember as budgeting we've talked about like Capital Equipment spending right and kind of chunking it up a little bit more maybe considering different financing mechanisms I like the idea of doing the same thing for some of these bigger Building Maintenance things um this is not going to end because we keep building buildings and we're going to have big maintenance things so I like us being planful and chunking them together um uh you know I wasn't the first one who or he was the first one who mentioned the solar but I mentioned it to BR too when I talk guys page with that so I I fully support that I mean um the the city spent a tremendous amount of budget on electricity and costs are only going to go up so um the more that we can generate our own the cost savings we can faster cost savings we can have in the future for that um yeah so my more my concern was about the debt um I was also thinking and I don't know if this is the case or not but any of these items do they play into our long-term projections of um the uh water fees or connection fees and stuff like that and kind of how that might impact as well that was the other piece I was thinking about okay I'm done I'm sorry if I moved on from you before no it's totally I didn't fully complete okay um I am in favor of all of it I've expressed my support for the fire station Edition previously so long ago that we might had an addition had we gone forward with it at the time um I years and years ago when I was on first elected to council I drove around with Brian skoke and wanted to see what our storage situation looked like and he was super excited that we had a little bit more storage at the time because they just purchased large racks and they were able to store up instead of store on at ground level so um there's definitely a need and I think that the pictures did a really good job of showing how literally stuff is shoe warned into the buildings that we have now um as far as scope three I do you know want to and I've talked to Brent about this have more of a longterm process we're going to need a new roof and new HVAC units on this building someday and we are probably what three years into that countdown clock ticking down so for the bigger stuff I would love to have that in a longer than our long-term financial plan looking 20 years down the road and saying okay we're going to roughly need a roof on City Hall on 2029 or however let's assuming even 20 years out of a I don't know how long these last but having that kind of plan I think these needs are identified now and we have the option to take care of them sooner rather than later if we've got four 20-year-old ageback units on the roof of the fire station and public services building we don't have you know Murphy's Law those things are going to all come due and start falling apart at the same time and that's just too big of a bud hole for our small City to handle that's a lot of reshuffling priorities on the fly with cold firefighters and cold public services staff so or hot depending on the season um but I just I'm so I'm in favor of Scopes one two and three um I don't have anything else additional to say but I liked what Joy had to say about figuring out the financial impact um and giving credit to both Eric and joy I think that now would be to take take a look into solar and see what that can do for us long do you guys have what you need from us okay um all right can you do a strategic Plan update three minutes three minutes yeah can if I can I'll save that to the regular meeting and just ific can Skip to My updates yeah so I asked uh I think as most of you know there's a lot of interest in the skating rank at community park and so um Chad and I were talking about it and there's you know just based on a conversation I've had with them there's a lot more to like building that eye strength and what meets the eye this even from my perspective so I asked Chad if he could share a few thoughts on what goes into that just as a kind of a mutual learning opportunity want me to go now I mean sure so obviously over the over the course there's multiple floods we have morning floods evening floods and that raises the ice only a fraction of an inch then when we get weather that's 37° in raining we basically start over tomorrow depending on uh temperatures but um it's a long process it uses a lot of water a lot of man hours if there's any snow events we have to clean it before we can flood it otherwise um the ice isn't good it just cracks underneath this gate so it it's a it's a long long process in this year has been very challenging with precipitation and temperatures so you talk about the drainage I thought that was so yeah we we actually um when I was a young kid as a seasonal uh the town that I worked in actually had um just grass BMS that would hold water pretty much all year long and then we would put up hockey uh boards around that as long as it holds water we can it will make just look at a pond or you know a street that holds water um so this summer we're going to really work on trying to figure out how we can make this thing hold water for next year and then it will decrease their maintenance time and efforts but it's constructed to drain water yes it's just like a road it's Crown so anything you put on it if it melts it drains away so in the summertime when it rains the water shins off of it so it doesn't do what it you'd like it to do for its purpose right trust me this is this was the bait of my existence once once one a time also and it does hurt my brain when I look outside and see that it's raining and people get on social media and say why isn't the ice rank up well I don't know if you put your ice tray outside are you making ice right now like I mean it's just it's kind of common sense so I'm not sure the right way but good good luck I just I don't know what to do but it is actually it's bu not I I would say it's not built correctly to start with I mean it's humped in the middle drains out where do both the people they're skating in the middle it wears down right in the center it's just and it's been a challenging season oh The Season's been terrible you know like the weather has been crazy we had three days worth of plowing snow which I definitely I appreciate that your priorities are making sure that the streets and trails are plowed instead of working on but yeah how old is that rank again little about basketball court yeah um I'm not sure it's been here a while I mean it's been a while Paul was here so it's been within the last 23 I started here what7 and it was here then yeah oh yeah I think it was early 2000 did it come the fire station it could have been about 2003 even or four right this 650 being mindful of the time just one last item just wanted to um update the counil the state just adopted uh some legislation making June 19th or what's called juneth state holiday it doesn't take effect until August 1st of 2023 we have a council meeting on uh June 19th so in case there was a concern but that'll be something that will add to the city's official calendar starting in uh January 1 of 2024 um and then make we'll be presenting some changes to the employee reference manual to make that Aid for the employees uh again something for you to consider in the fall but um a significant piece and uh with June just around the corner just one sure people knew that that would be starting in 2024 not June 19th of this year so right close cir to Paul schz U that I would entertain a motion to motion to Second by ER and a second by say all right