everybody to the February 16th Planning Commission meeting and um I will call it to order and may I please get a motion to approve the agenda uh I move to approve the agenda I will second there is a motion and a second to approve the agenda all in favor say I I I and oppose agenda is approved move on to item number three the minutes from January 19th 2023 would somebody like to make a motion to approve the minutes for January 19th I will make a motion to approve the J January 19th 2023 Planning Commission meeting second all right there's a motion from Christa and a second by read uh all those in favor say I I and opposed minutes are approved new business number four Hometown Bank concept plan and take it away thank you members of the commission we are reviewing a concept plan tonight so concept is the very first step in a process a planning process with the Planning Commission or city council so on our road map you'll see we're pretty close to the top so we're at the UR here where we're Gathering feedback from the Planning Commission and city council so Headwaters is a development team that's working on the project Hometown Bank is the applicant so they came to us with just an idea we don't know a ton about the site we don't know a ton about the project right now so if you have really specific questions we'll likely say we'll get back to you on that one um but this is a good time for you to share those questions share feedback on the project uh things that you like things that you would ask that staff thinks about through our review process so we'll take chapter uh 50 of the city code apply it to the project and bring it back to the Planning Commission and city council at a future date so a concept plan is often a napkin sketch so someone puts a building onto a site it's really just a general layout so something that I will tell you is that the project will change I've never had a project go from concept to preliminary plat approval and say it's exactly the same just because there's so much we don't know the concept plan is the first step before uh typically an engineer is engaged to create those really technical plans for preliminary plat and final plat so it's a developers way uh to be able to get some just general feedback on an idea before they fully invest and fully engineered plans so the Planning Commission is welcome to offer feedback about the project things that you like things that you don't like things you're excited about something that's interesting and unique about a commercial project especially when it's just one building is that if the project moves forward the Planning Commission and city council can see preliminary plat and final plat concurrently so next time this comes back it might be for approval of both because the building isn't going to change between those two processes and we're able to get to a spot where we're comfortable enough at a staff level to say yes this is the final product also moves things along a little bit quicker which which is hugely appreciated especially for a commercial project so let's talk location a little bit we are in Carver Commons which is a site that's owned by a group called United properties so we've been seeing projects come in uh pretty ferociously for the past couple years this is our third project on the site uh since 2018 when Quick Trip came in 20202 was next steps which is slated to open in a couple weeks which will be really exciting the daycare that's joining the community so we're at the corner of Jonathan cover Parkway and Highway 22 so the property is guided freeway commercial I'll talk a little bit more about that later and the general site location is directly east of the quick trip so on the screen now is the site plan that has been laid over the map so you'll see the existing building is the Quick Trip the 1700 menroe drive so we're directly east on that corner piece you'll see the two property or the two lots South those are just storm water Retention Ponds so it's water and those areas not buildable so the site largely has a lot of developable space still you can see this is the next step site this is an open lot here it's roughly an acre and then this is the Hometown Bank site which is roughly 1.3 acres and we'll dial into the details a bit in a couple slides so again the property is already guided for this use it's freeway commercial and both a bank and a coffee shop user are permitted uses in that District so no rezoning is required at this time we anticip at that they we will have additional users and we've anticipated this user so utility infrastructure is in place so things like streets sewer water all are available at the site and we know that our system can handle the additional users access will primarily be from Monroe drive with a future slip right on JCP I have a map in a couple sides that shows where that General slip right is um access to Monroe Drive there are two entrances there's a right in only and then a full intersection a little bit further west so this site will primarily be served by that first slip in right um we've been working a lot on site circulation so you'll see on the uh concept plan that there's a couple one ways I think that's going to be one of the big things that changes is how the site just works for traffic so what you see tonight I would say stay tuned likely will change as we learn more about the site but we'll see we might come back and say that the site completely works we just don't know that level of detail quite yet for parking which is something we talk about a lot here one space is required for every 250 ft so the proposed building is 4,100 Ft which puts it at a requirement of about 177 spaces the concept plan shows over 40 so they exceed the parking requirements when preliminary plaque comes in we'll get a landscape plan that's something that this group usually thinks about as well the concept plan shows some light circulation and also a proposed Trail so having a trail in this site is important thinking about the Quick Trip the daycare the bank future coffee shop user getting people in that se site not only by vehicle but also by walking and biking um darl is here with Hometown Bank so I'm not going to steal too much of his Thunder about uh what they're about but there's 11 locations throughout the state a couple in our neighboring communities so aonia Jordan Victoria so uh Shaka is another one so uh kind of our neck of the woods so several locations if you are driving through any of those cities you can see what they look like uh after construction and here's a closer look at what site layout looks like so quick trip is obviously highlighted as that existing building something that I think is interesting about this layout and that obviously um the development team was really thoughtful about is the double drive-thru so the site has a drive-through specifically for the bank and specifically for the coffee user and I think the design and layout of it was really creative to maximize space on the site so I'm going to take you through um I just saw a light bulb go off in Reed's head so I'm going to take you through what they both look like so you come in off minro minro drive you slip into the site the bank windows are here and then you do full site exit around or if you come in for a coffee user you go into this coffee Lane here so there's directional signage to differentiate where you go menu board is here and at that point the bank traffic is able to slip through the coffee shop traffic and then the coffee shop window is here so a user that has two drive-throughs I think it's a unique layout something that was thoughtfully done to maximize sight to design um limit the probably the amount of queuing that you need just because it's pulled away a little bit so two different drive-throughs for the two different users Hometown Bank is the bank user and then the coffee shop is to be determined at this time um but I think they're going to knock it out of the park being right next to a daycare so parents dropping off their kids and then zipping over to get a coffee I think is going to be a really successful product and something we're looking forward to site plan also shows some signage in this General North east corner not something glamorous but garbage is included in the site plan so you'll see throughout the site there's a ton of parking um I would say that's also subject to change they have a lot of parking right now they obviously exceed the amount of our ordinance so as we consider site circulation we might need to play with that parking a little bit to remove some of them to make sure that the site uh moves effectively the trail is slated to be in this general area here along the parking lot so just general site design and then zooming in a little bit closer so again the 4100 ft building the two drive-throughs for the different users parking Trail uh lots of unknowns at this time landscape plan will be added at time of preliminary plat yeah absolutely um okay you said what's required by code for number of parking spots one per 250 square feet so 17 and on on this we have how many 40 plus yeah maybe we should or maybe the developers should consider putting in more permeable surface and less parking agreed so we've talked uh just collectively as a group with the development team potentially losing the spaces here so again as we continue to learn more that's something we can absolutely do something that's interesting about our code is that we have a maximum amount of parking in this site just about hits it so falling somewhere that works for both users knowing that a coffee shop user might gener some more traffic but also understanding that the site might need some more green space um something else to note is that there's some outdoor seating for the coffee shop here so if you want to grab a coffee and sit on a patio there's a location for that as well and there's indoor seating right correct okay uh slated at this time I would say yes but I know some coffee users might go for a drive-thru only but at this time I believe there is indoor seating contemplated okay again just general sight layout so the big blue arrow is generally where that slip right is next time you're driving South on Jonathan Carver Parkway I want you to look in this area there's some extra pavement that you can see that has already been constructed for this so once you see it you can't really unsee it but that's the slip right that's going to happen so it looks a little a little wonky right now but the intention is to have that be a slip right off Jonathan cover Parkway that was installed with a JCP project which was the joint project with the county but we were able to negotiate that in for development of the site so the slip right will get you into the site we anticipate there might be an additional user north of Hometown and the coffee user so once that project is in and the infrastructure is in that area we anticipate that slip right will open we just don't have it any there's nothing to open to right now so once there's a road there we anticipate that will open for an additional access into the site so like I mentioned Daryl is here with Hometown Bank Blake is here with Headwater development so darl do you want to come and introduce yourself to the group members of Planning Commission uh thank you for inviting us to be here tonight again my name is Daryl ksky I'm the CEO of Hometown Bank and as Aon mentioned earlier we do have 11 locations we're a Community Bank and next year's a big year for us because it's going to be our 100y year birthday so big celebrations next year but we started uh with a single location in Redwood Falls a savings and loan back in 1924 over the years had a couple of Charter changes and in 1999 added a second location in Olivia operated that way for a few years in 2006 uh acquired four Banks along in the 169 Corridor lour Henderson Cleveland and St Peter and a few years later I believe 2009 added Jordan and and uh about approximately 250 15 you guys are probably aware with the uh wakona location and that's the first location that we did as kind of a joint deal and decided to try putting a coffee shop in there and the whole mentality behind that is just another way for us to create an environment where we create a lot of Lobby traffic and and get to know people that concept works so well for us that that's kind of our prototype going forward and that's that's why we're proposing this tonight we really uh are a Community Bank in the true sense of the word and what I mean by that is you know we're extremely excited to come to to Carver we've been looking at Carver for a long time but we're not our plan is not to come here and just take we want to come and give back we want to be part of the community we try really hard to hire people from the community and you know people with kids in the schools and and we try to go volunteer in the schools and in the community and and we really that's a big part of who we are and what we do plan to be around for a long time um you know we we try to create an experience and we try very hard to create this culture and this environment when you come in you feel like part of our family and you know we don't recommend anything just to recommend something or sell something it's you we're not going to try to sell you anything we wouldn't recommend to our own family members so um with that I mean yeah we're excited I did want to comment on a couple things you said inside the lobby somebody said is there also seating inside in the coffee shop typically what we do there will be a little bit of seating inside the coffee shop but we tend to share the seating space with the bank um that way we feel like it's easier for us to mingle with people and get to know people and things like that so um we do have I mentioned 11 locations uh we're also working on a another site simultaneously in Victoria just down the road so with that any questions other questions for me yes I do how many employees do you have would for this location well when we first start out there there'll probably only be four or five eventually when it's at full capacity there'll be somewhere between 10 and 15 okay and then you have the coffee shop employees on top of that yep okay with that in mind are you going to have adequate parking for employees and visitors well I think if it stays like that I feel like we would because when I say that many employees a good number of those will be part-time as well and won't all be there at the same time the other question I have um it uh it looks like you know where you got the cars going into the coffee area to pick up and you got two lanes of cars that are going to be coming in for the tellers thank you I I see a a potential bottleneck because you're showing four cars there but you know I've seen around the communities in places where there are coffee shops or fast food they can really line up quite a quite a long distance uh the question is how you going to deal with that is this going to be adequate now I know you have below it that line of a bunch of cars looks like they're waiting to get into the coffee line I'm just wondering is this going to be adequate yeah will you just introduce yourself before you start yes sure uh great question Blake marison with Headwaters development so we're working together with Hometown Bank here to uh develop this property for them and working with them Victoria to help in their expansion so uh it's a great question and something we looked at because it is a concern of ours as well just kind of keep that flow as eron's alluded to this is not necessarily going to be the final design we are still making a few tweaks to that um and so I think when we kind of come to that next process that'll be something that we make sure that we are addressing thank you maybe I guess an add-on question to that is um for like the ATMs and the tellers lines what is a typical line L for a bank is it usually does it ever get more than three cars deep are you are you specifically asking about the drive-thru yeah the the Bank drive-thru rarely most people now what we're seeing happen is everything's going to electronic once we get the accounts opened up especially um you know unless someone's coming in to talk about a loan or something almost everything on the newer Generations is completely electronic so then holding of six cars would be no I think that would showing for purposes of what could stack that is extremely rare we would probably be doing something wrong if very true um Mike uh sorry go Dan um um my question was going to be about um does does quick trip talk or get a has Quick Trip aware of this or have an opportunity to speak on this because I I obviously most of the traffic is going to come from the East side and we're well equipped for the east side but we are expanding West and so the the shortcut from coming in the west is going to be cutting through quick trip and just are they aware of that or what is there if they would have any opinion on the design so uh typically they're notified at time of preliminary and final plan Buton I'm going to this on you a little bit to talk about the infrastructure and the design of that site just how we designed the site to make sure it could handle users on both sides of the so yeah maybe you want to go back one yeah are you concerned about kind of cutting through the parking lot this is the only way to get in from the West is right here and then they're not going to go all the way around quick trip to come in they're going to yeah I'd say well the full axis is the Westerly point right there um I think that was one of my you know comments initially so I'd say that's kind of all in flux at this point too is how what's the most efficient way to configure that North South Road really so um but I think it's a it's a good point so also when we um worked with quick trip we wrote Into the development agreement that we're allowed to extend that median so there's a median uh on the full access point so should we see that there's too much traffic we can make that a limited access intersection so likely not something we want to do if we don't have to but if it becomes a reoccurring issue also say that quick chip parking lot is pretty busy so I don't know if it would be the most efficient cut through I understand it's the like the line of s shortest line of sight but it is the parking lot is bustling most of the time so I wonder if the hassle of navigating some of that would push people to continue North yes did you have I I had some questions yes okay go for no problem um so on our our parking requirement so uh since this is a mixed use the uh use that has the most parking is the one the most spots per square foot is that used or do we use like a ratio or how how did we determine that yeah so our city code lists um several different users and then the amount of parking that each user needs a bank and a coffee shop are actually the same in our code so they're both one 250 so it's a pretty easy calculation yeah okay um and then uh on the yeah the the traffic with the drivethru when they mentioned that double drivethru that was a that did go off in my head that makes a lot of sense um yeah I guess the other you know when the uh Cofe shaps get super busy right backing up in front of the bank teller but again like you said they're not super common for people to be in one or two cars and I I think the smart idea there was putting the order sign right so when you're ordering you're stopped so that should theoretically give a little gap between so allow traff to Flo through I thought that was a genius again very smart use I guess the only other um idea or is the exit on the North side there right because the the main East West at the top there you know it's offsite a little I don't know if we can shift that por to make that street more through or if that goes on the other property uh just to the north right so I think I mean I don't know what you know Aon or Aron just trying right because you know if you're pulling out and you take a right immediate left versus if there was you know if it kind of extended across the top of the property they could just go straight out and one left but but again if that's not their property then we get you know yeah don't have a lot to do but we've talked about that yeah yeah I and then um uh oh and then just to com yeah I've been at the wakon location many times in the coffee shop it's a I don't even when the planning commission's been there but it's a great setup right so they've got a little small uh seating area and then the bank itself has like TVs and a little Lounge area so you grab your coffee go sit down and you know watch some TV and their big comfy chairs and whatnot so it's when I saw it was Hometown Bank I was very excited so that's it thank think we're good this time thanks I think I might have one more slide I do okay this was actually a good timing so next steps obviously Planning Commission just completed their review this one is fast tracking a little bit so it's going to go to City Council on Tuesday of next week at that point staff puts together a comment letter so we put together things that that we know about the site we take your feedback we take council's feedback send it to the development team to say these are things we need you to address when we start learning more about the site so then the applicant can choose to apply for preliminary plat and final plat that's when we get a ton of details that's when we go back and forth a couple times finalizing site details making sure it meets a city code making sure some of those details are just flushed out I'll mention that staff review is completed by the engineering team the fire department I think is going to have a pretty uh lengthy review on this one to make sure they can get their largest fire trucker around the entire building Public Service as a City attorney planning and administration so behind the scenes we're going back and forth with everyone on that team to make sure it meets everything that each team needs so at that point we will move forward hopefully with Planning Commission and city council approval we have a tentative timeline that is pretty quick so we're hopeful that this project uh should we continue to move forward could be through final approval by the city uh early spring so to start construction here quickly so any feedback that anyone has if anyone's watching the meeting let me know I'd be happy to chat with residents that have questions or comments otherwise we Tuesday at city council well um Daryl and L thank you so much thank you thank you all right shall we move along to 42 zoning ordinance update variances conditional use permit code sections I told everyone in the room they could leave after if they wanted to run for your lives thanks thank you okay what's that yeah is it horrible yeah you do sorry U I have to tell you we had the most popular Planning Commission meeting at the last one Cindy you missed it it was so sorry it was I mean you were on vacation intruction I was having a lot of fun no Phil I wasn't thanks for noticing so I have to say kudos to the group I've gotten really good feedback that you all were engaged in making the process as fun as it could be so well done thank you I appreciate the work that you're doing so uh last meeting we talked a lot about variances conditional use permits prds pcds all of those things I think we all have a pretty good shared understanding of what those are so once we had that meeting and I feel like I brushed up on my understanding of all of that as well I went back and I read the sections of variances and conditional use permits in the code that we have and they were tricky they were really really really really tricky um just as someone who I think um if they call City Hall and they we say you can't do a project I think people kind of know what a variance is and they start to think like oh what could I do so if they get in our city code and they type in variants and then they try to start reading what we have it was gross yeah so my goal and intent um with this section was truly to get rid of that jargon so someone on a Sunday night when they're trying really hard like oh this city how can I get a bigger shed they could actually look at that information and say like oh there are a couple things I would have to meet and granted I'm happy to talk to anyone through any of that but I just wanted it to be a little bit more accessible than it was um even like definition of variance which we talked about last meeting it's just really jumbled and it send you to a state statute and state statutes are notoriously pretty hard to read so wanting to remove some of the jargon get to a point where we can all move forward together um so let's talk a little bit just a quick refresher about what a variance is so it Alters a portion of the C of the code it creates a variation it's for a specific property they are challenging to get you have to prove that you have something unique to your property that does not allow you to use it in the way that it was intended to do so uh there's some criteria that you need to meet in the code and it um cannot be granted if you created the problem so it has to be something that essentially happens to you specifically for your lot and it has to be specific to your property again we talked a lot about at the last meeting what precedence does it set so someone can have a really challenging thing happen but if they created it and it sets a precedence it gets really sticky for us to say it was Jim with his tractors at the last meeting that Jim gets this huge shed because he has 10 tractors his neighbors hate looking at the tractors this would help the issue but what does that mean for everyone else moving forward conditional use permit the definition is on the screen it is big it is long is challenging so something that we're looking to clean up uh conditional use is listed in each district so take the central business district there are uses that can be used as a conditional use permit I think uh Brew poob was one of them I believe Reed was thinking about opening one at the last meeting so it's yeah you got to watch that meeting Cindy yeah told you you missed out so again these conditional uses can be allowed with conditions so it allows additional review by the Planning Commission and city council to say things like your lights need to turn off at 10 p.m. so the neighbors aren't bothered or trucks need to arrive between 8 and 900 a.m. uh just those things that make a project a little bit more nuanced as opposed to the strict zoning code permit stays with the property not the person and there is flexibility in what can be conditioned so uh this group has tasked the city council has tasked with creating conditions specific for a project that would make it easier better uh a better neighbor for someone in the community so we're going to jump to the text I realized when I was making these slides at like 605 don't tell anyone that you all asked for page numbers and I didn't put page num so I'm so sorry I'm so sorry so in the packet there's three versions luckily it's not a very long I know this was a short one okay but you'll have to we should probably decide which we want to be looking at yes so there's three versions in the packet so there's the first one is the adopted so that's as the code stands now so what you would find if you went to our website and checked it out right um next is the red line which I hear Christo was a really big fan of heard it was really relaxing um so this is where I went kind of bananas and I went through and tried to make the language a little bit more um uniform so we changed things like must to will those were some of the big changes but then tried to make it a little bit more readable for the average person so you'll see the red was a little bit intense and then the third one which I think we should use for our discussion tonight which has proposed on it which is beginning on page 12 oh you can't see my screen I'm working so hard and you cannot see it let's see how I can fix that that's happened before hasn't it a yeah you know Zoom makes it a little bit tricky for me how about that one there we go so let's um work off the propose which begins on page 12 of 15 so this is the clean version with my red lines fully accepted so um let's work through that and then I also want a little bit of feedback if that format worked for you where you had three versions of the code to look at or if that felt intense okay I actually liked that okay I mean I didn't like it I didn't like it that painful but I thought it was useful okay good this is like what I do in my day job so yes o I am sorry that sounds intense that doesn't sound fun no okay so um let's start on page 12 the proposed language so it's section 50-40 starting with very es so people have feedback questions want to talk about anything let's get started we're going to go through one a number at a time or yeah just we'll start the top and move our way down Okay so let's does anyone have anything on page 12 is that an easy way to start yeah go ahead um the board of appeals we had to find that in the previous one right corre was that you say which number oh sorry Section 504 section 50-40 item 1 okay Board of Appeals that was oh yeah a generic term for the city council right but not necessarily limited to right because it could be depending on the correct so the board then then so the board of appeals is a my City attorney will be so proud of me it's a quasi judicial board that works a little bit differently than the city council it's the same members ah okay but then when we refer later we talk about having the city council do the application do we want to to have that consistency between those two so it's a two-step process so the Planning Commission would review it the city council would then if they gets struck down uh no that's maybe not the but it says may be granted by court of appeals that's what confus I think it's this the city council sits as the board of appeals right for V variances from this ordinance sure the city council can approve of area correct but that's the fact that we're having this conversation means that it's confusing yeah well we we we had it once and then we talked about reviewed by the city council the city council for the rest of documents I didn't know if we wanted to consistent but if they're two different then then maybe we need to the same people but the different entities yeah exactly right different function right but I agree it is confusing like why does it switch to one or the other I made it through the first line thanks did you have anything else no not not um I so section three a um what am I say yeah it talks about supporting materials do we need to give any examples of what a supporting material would be so I kept that vague intentionally because I feel like it depends really on what the project is okay so no such as required sure yeah okay so C3 C MH I know you changed from will to must or must to will when isn't it a requirement though that the public hearing has to be published so that's not really a will it's a must uh so so yes via State Statute it has to be published so should that have not changed from a will to a must in the last sentence yeah sure well first sentence first yeah first and last yeah yeah notic oh yeah oh I had a lot on this page sorry um I got to go back to where I was so number four hey we scrolled a little bit we oh you have three yeah uh if we can go back to three E I read through it a number of time it just sounds redundant can we CLE can that be um I had the same thing I asked if it was duplicate sure oh yeah and but I'm again looking at the red line at the moment yeah it's like something wasn't deleted okay yeah like the third sentence gets really clunky I almost wonder if we could stop after sentence two so if a variance is denied by the city council an application for the same request cannot be made for one year from the date of decision a variance will expire and be considered null and void if the project has not begun within one year of approval by the city council yeah yes oh yeah it is that says the exact same thing no no it isn't one says if it's Deni one has to deal with the variances approved and not started applications One deals with if it's rejected so should it be oh yeah so the the first and second sentences are important the third is redundant the fourth is important okay okay thank you um on D you talk you're got it parents yep okay if a variance is denied by the city council an application for the same request cannot be made for one year from the date of decision and then a variance will expire and be considered no and void if the project is not begun within one year oh yeah of approval should be up approval by the city council yeah isn't that the most so that's that's good that issued so I don't think we still need that last sentence of variance will expire and be considered an own void one year after it has been issued I think that if it has been issued should get moved up to the second sentence so variance will be will expire and be considered null and void um if it has been issued and the project has not begun that well if it has or even if yeah if it right yeah okay okay so don't think we need four sentences to expl so sentence one good sentence two and sentence four should be melded together remove sentence three y okay yep does everybody agree with that to me thank you okay you had d d you have an extra space at the beginning of the sentence that's okay ch um okay you also do on B I found oh my gosh um details like this are not my strong point and Brent the city manager I kind of drive he I use different size five a lot of you're one of those people I just don't noticed like I'm moving so fast I'm so excited okay so it says here the Planning Commission re after Planning Commission review it will be reviewed by the city council do we have to state that we make a recommendation to the city council or what are we we're doing a review for what reason what is our purpose yeah so it would be a recommendation so maybe it should be after Planning Commission r and recommendation to city council be I feel like recommendation is hard for me though because it sounds like you're going to recommend something automatically like even saying you recommend denial feels a little bit wonky because the Planning Commission would either recommend approval or recommend denial where the word recommend do we have the option of not recommending anything right you doing no recommendation mhm but then no matter what we do even if we did not recommend approval it still goes to city council correct so it doesn't I me I think reviews fine we're just here to slow down the [Laughter] process so after Planning Commission review and decision like even tbling something would be a decision technically we're missing an action in that after maybe the hearing no matter what we do though going to go to the city C correct [Music] yeah leave it as it I would leave it like that okay Planning Commission RW because it goes on to say that um if the Planning Commission is unable to provide a recommendation within 60 days the complete application application so I we aren't expected to make a recommendation we can okay but we don't have to okay so review is the action there yeah I think so okay [Music] I think I'm on page 13 then that's all the comments I had on that page at least okay okay how about Okay I [Laughter] lied uh 4 C 4C uh yep um 4 CB M flight the plight of the property owner or applicant what is SL is uh like um we need to dumb down issue the situation situation okay dumb down the term okay yeah what why did I thought it was a misspelled word it's younger generation oh boy hey that's all right anything else in four no nope next page okay all right so page 13 uh does anyone have anything in five oh I had uh six a how about five anyone in five in five oh sorry five look good to me all right how about six um so I guess mine was just the general purpose of this whole section right this is basically right because the PRD is actually an update to the code so this is just basically saying that uh it it you're requesting a variance from the updated version in the PRD not necessarily but it's the same thing right right I think the goal of this is to say that even if you your property was developed in a PRD you can still apply for a variance a PRD is a variation of the strict city code it's not a variance but you vary some of those setbacks so I think this is just saying even if you're in a PRD you can move forward with a variance application your your update made much more sense than the previous version okay would you really know if you were in a PRD like if the development you were in you know based on find out you could ask but if you're reading this again at 10 o'clock in a Sunday night if you looked at our zoning map it does say PRD at the end so if you're tying all of this together yeah yeah that yeah then they'll call Aon right on a Monday not on a Sunday night phone number in this yeah okay yeah yeah anything else in six um wait I did number two wait in what no we're on conditional use yeah we're still in which one oh I'm sorry conditional used permits 50-41 is that okay so we are variance feels good okay any other feedback does it feel more usable more readable mhm okay so let's move into 50-41 conditional use sounds like Cindy has a first one at number two well noce somebody have something number one okay I just have a general concern so the what was it is it my spacing I feel like I have a space there there is a space there but you know we'll give it to Bron he'll clean it up for you um so 50-40 has sections and then you go to 5041 and it doesn't follow the same you're right and it you know like I'm kind of in order kind of person so like Can it have a similar outline with like purpose procedur we're going to find that throughout our entire code like we'll be able to feel like something was written together because it's consistent so at the end of the entire process I'll probably do I'm going to call you and you're going to come in and sit by me and we're going to format the entire document together and then we'll go to happy hour somewhere but yes um it's going to vary throughout the code just as it's been written differently so formatting will likely be the last step with the definitions okay so it might follow the similar format so like purpose description correct and if there's one that you prefer like if one feels good and you like the purpose pieces of it you get to make that decision okay to C are we even here as an extra space all right extra space yeah yeah well I mean it talks about the purpose then the procedure and then the conditions like the criteria do you like those headers okay because I think section 541 I had a hard time finding the procedure because I was expecting it sooner in the and I'm assuming the process is the same but you're just going to have to list it again oh yeah I I now I see what you mean yes now probably having the most bad experiences with conditional use permit we can if you approve a conditional use permit you can put a requirement for regular inspection correct because I think that was the biggest problem we had yes agreed okayy 50-41 number two anything else uh yes the last sentence and you know it starts criteria for granting conditional use permits the last sentence of that paragraph says the city council will review the following criteria to the project when deciding on the conditional use permit aren't we applying this criteria corre considering the conditional use permit so how about the city council will review the F review the pro apply the following criteria to the project when considering used permit yep so instead of review we put apply instead of deciding we put considering because I mean these are the criteria that we use and I mean that's what we'll apply to whatever instance the city council will following criteria was the previous so it must have been a thought to change that guess applying criteria reject reject that one red line right okay so a proposed change here the city council will review the following criteria to the project uh no the city council will apply the following criteria to a project when considering a conditional use permit yeah like that okay yeah that does sound better very good two anyone else all righty number three three yes your outp that's spacing all right wow you all are sticklers for the rules all noce except for me will have them ID she will have c yeah yeah your spacing is all did did you get a a conditional use permit on the space I will say maybe it's not your fault because in the red line it was space a bad before so okay good so maybe I'm just starting with a bad I think I would need a variance JY I don't think it would be a conditional use for it I had some I'm sorry on 3B yeah uh let me try to remember what it was I highlighted it but I can't remember I didn't write my note down next to it uh how did that happen H I was in a hurry no uh oh um for the structural yeah okay I remember what it was um uh is there a for for for like so basically B is when where if they need to update the structure um is that basically giving the city flexibility that they can have to reapply for the conditional use permit or does it right because we always said it applies to the property and the structure right so are we yeah I guess what is that is that trying to figure out when they need they made significant structural changes that they need to reapply or if they're so going to any change not even signicant okay any change involving structural alterations enlargement intensification of use or similar changes not specifically permitted by the conditional use permit so I mean I think that's but then it maintain a record so that's why I'm kind of confused right any oh I guess did we have a doubled amend I'm trying to think of a really good example three can you maybe scroll up B do I is that what's the what's the non- redline version is that what we're looking at right now yeah okay could you scroll B maybe it's just the red lining um the red line I'm the entire paragraph the enti it's like double right yeah that's all brand new first paragraph is unchanged this entire second paragraph is brand new okay yeah that's what it was it seems like we said the same thing twice I see okay right so was the second one the second stating it of yeah I guess what right because any change inol structure they say any structure alteration and you know uh minist maintain a record right in the what that third sentence so it just get doubled can those be combined again sure yep yeah okay that's what threw me off okay oh I see what you mean the first sentence is essentially I was just uh this starting a more specific description of the structural yeah okay I think I might just take this sentence out and start the administrator will maintain I feel like this is covered in a pretty heavily so if we just go to B and then you also stated again the last sentence too I wonder if I was like drafting something and then just didn't get rid of it cuz it says it three times yeah yeah okay we'll clean that up okay how about four procedure oh yeah not until H though anybody got anything before H go go ahead okay um ha uh subsection two uh uh notice to the owner on record will be served by first class mail period written notice of replication will contain the effective date of replication I think that there should be a semicolon there the violation constituting the basis for the revocation another semicolon and and then it should be and information on an appeal comma which will require a hearing there's so many commas in that sentence yeah well H you can only use technically one semicolon sentence we got to do something then we need more than one sentence CHR I was just going to say will you find us your day job I work in clinical research but I have a minor in technical writing oh there you go why are we doing this why AR you will you be my consultant okay so we can only use one semicolon and calm as it is huh Cal as it is you can you want yeah okay yeah the sentence proves it we could also we could break it up it doesn't have to be one sentence it just it's too much don't you think it's too much Krista well you could say it will contain the following colon and then components contain yes let's do that yeah a good good oldfashioned not the semic the real old people don't like all that red stuff we go back oh okay if we if we go up are you the uh zoning coordinat administrator Zing ADR yeah Phil did you have on that's a little bit further up uh I have a question on a sure the zoning Administration Zing ad maybe I missed it someplace else but what is it um a a person applying for a conditional use permit necessary application with the or uh ordinance where did I come up I guess reading through the whole thing it's so it's in B the zoning administrator does is that what your okay so the zoning administrator I would say is a fancy term for someone in the planning department so the definition will dial into that a little bit so it will default to me most likely then uh e MH uh first sentence the process of a new should that also be revised is it a brand new one or is it really revised application am new revised uh conditional use perm sure because it's an amendment yeah that makes sense okay I have one last one yeah on uh H uh two served by first class male okay I get a little paranoid with this because I do a lot of investigation and uh expert witness uh I would suggest we spend a few dollars and do register mail sure but in ha1 is saying you're served yeah we served to the owner you don't serve first best mail yeah just shows up whenever the maale decides to come yeah so a certified letter certified letter certified mail certified mail certified is there something different between a register registered mail and certified you know I'd ask the post office okay what the best way because you probably want a return receipt yeah to show that they have it mail oh sh I I never got it my mail got lost someplace in a flaw you know but uh is it certifi well whatever it is the post office we we get receipts for certified yeah is that served or delivered the served I'm assuming like when I the served I think of the police officer coming in saying you've been served Ser yeah I think it fil that will be Phil's job as said in our definition offal right so I'll be the zoning administrator Phil will be the mail administrator official for matter okay so we'll change um served to delivered and we'll change first class mail to certified mail yeah feel like someone else had something on H one more thing yeah oh no not H I'm looking at I'm down to I now is that the end pretty close yeah says um the city May comma will yikes yeah both what which is it the city will annually review yes well that are we going to seriously review every single conditional use permit every year um we only have one right now okay so it's pretty easy okay and it's Carver Edge is that the City or the zoning administrator is going to be reviewing that uh could be any yeah could be we are the city you're right yeah this way you know could be the Planning Commission it could be the C administrator it could be I think leaving at the city is I think we should send R yeah read and fill read and looks good all right your thoughts how was it good bad pretty painless yeah I was it less pain less painful than last one no it was meeting it was more painful it was way more last one was way more we had hypothetical what if I want to switch my Brewery to a Distillery but I have to get a new I will say I think I think we all at least left that's pretty good um so yeah I guess that was so was there a when we reviewing last month we had a list of condition things that required a condition condition or what was that we had a list of variances you have to meet the criteria was it the zoning one where we had a list of prescribed uses um so each zoning district has certain uses that are allowed was not that's not the correct then I was confused I mean I guess I guess that goes with the question of how many sections do we have to do this for and how many meetings will this so many that's a lot I'm sorry Daniel we have so it was just to the point of his question of like that's going to be down way expected that happen at the next meeting yeah so the next um after some of these admin sections it goes into the residential districts which I think we'll spend quite a bit of time on talking through What's um permitted what's an accessory use what's a conditional use thinking so we'll start diving into that information I um I think framing that is going to be a little bit tricky because it is so much information so I'm going to get creative and take any feedback that you have of how we can do it effectively but I think that will be our next lift is the residential sections yeah um I is missing a period at the end God darn it yeah I was GNA say that on screen how did I miss that yeah how so then just we just wanted it to go on forever yeah to be continued so in general I don't this maybe a question for the lawyer on on the were we listing out our specific ones not limited to the following is that is that the legal ones that we we make sure we're at least hitting these and then that covers up for any ones we the city decides or is that you know a list or do we want to add is it I guess thinking is it better to have more listed so then we the city has more Authority and then the person can't say oh that's not oh why do I need a condition use it's not in this list say oh but it's not limited to vers ISM right you know figure out the what is a good number what what is the well it says may you don't want to list 50 things but if you have five things right I don't know it's a balancing act right so yeah so that's some good feedback too about the process so we'll do the work here the City attorney will fully review this document too before we move forward with any approval sure even before I make any really substantial changes I'll have a discussion with him to say right now it just feels like a lot of cleanup yeah no but if we're introducing some big new user I'll run it past Dave just to say how does this feel for you what do you know about it so he'll review the entire document I think in a the additional um Condition it's just as helpful to get a list of things that like to get you thinking about no I agree we should have a list I'm just wondering is only having 10 things in here legally limiting the city more than we want to Pro up right so if a cup came through Dave would review it at that time too so he could tell us yes the things that you're thinking about check out okay he would likely attend this meeting and the city council meeting as well so if you had an idea that needed to be flush through by him he could do that as well right because I I think we literally just talked about the truck traffic one for the restaurant right yeah so we add that but I mean let's I mean if there's 10 or 15 common ones that we know of for other cities or theer we should list those right but yep I mean we shouldn't have 50 right I mean there's some half Happ number of you know that's why it's written is may include yeah exactly right but then the other legal is you list two and then just say well may you know and then you either you know the legal of we have you know well it's what we want say May so does say the these conditions may include but are not limited yes exactly yeah I mean that's a good point so you don't want to make it so cumbersome you know yeah but I'm just saying were these 10 listed for a specific reason or this are the ones we happened to maybe these are the most likely two that that that makes sense to me too right yeah or yeah yeah but the phrase not limited yeah exactly right I mean I think I think we're covered but if we have absolutely you know 15 common ones list 15 if it's 10 L 10 right yeah and just something to remember we have one AC of conditional use permit in town right now so it's not something that we see a ton sure so okay but it might as we revise the sections if you all feel really passionately about a lot of commissional uses um does anybody have any other thoughts or concerns for this part of the code if not let's move along yeah uh Communications Reed you got anything uh no I'm good Jim just want to say March 30th bar around the Minnesota is doing a presentation downstairs cool on what on on the the Dakota and the early history of what time is that 7 o' and what day of the week is that it's the fifth Thursday of the month fifth Thursday okay for those of us who go to a lot of meetings okay that sounds very interesting um do you have anything I have two questions do we have a new member um interviews are the 27th okay and then there was posting on the city website about um the new park I was just pulling that and at one point we talked about you talked about told us that it's going to be combined with our commission Park and planning uh Parks Advisory Board yeah um one second so I'm just going to P side yeah there it is there it is uh okay so the parks we had a Parks Commission previously and it felt um pretty stuffy it was similar to a group like this talking about something that's inherently a little bit more fun parks uh Recreation things we want to see in the community so we're revamping that group a little bit to be the parks Advisory Group so they'll continue as a separate group but they'll meet probably four to six times a year um we'll focus on some education so we'll talk like through Park dedication which is something not a lot of people know about like how our new parks are funded that it mostly comes from new development it won't raise your tax dollars if we're using that fund I'm hopeful that a couple members of our Public Services team will come in to talk Park maintenance um the rotation of how we care for things the timing of all of it but then we also will ask for some feedback so Creekside Park is the park that Christa was talking about and there are some unprogrammed spaces throughout this park I'll go into some more detail about it but that would be a great group to say hey we have a quarter acre in this park what would you like it to be I also hope that the group will also allow for some just general networking so I'm thinking this is our first event will be this spring and we're thinking about doing like a sneak peek of Ironwood Park so getting people together tour that Park um see what's going on my goal is at group that you meet someone new and you can connect over things like Parks so it's a little bit of a education uh our current Park system our future Park system feedback for us but then also just some get to know your neighbor stuff in the Parks so that's the park Advisory Group how that ties in here is that this group will be tasked with doing some more formal Park approval so we'll ask the park Advisory Group for that advice what do you want it to be XYZ and then if it's part of a plating process this group will approve it as part of a development plan my hope would have right number of parking spaces and that yeahor does this park run all the way down to barbar BL park it does not there's a pretty significant chunk of land that's owned by the HOA the carber Bluffs HOA so it stops short so oh yeah right there's have we addressed whether they would be willing part so uh we asked for an opinion from our City attorney and we would have to get a majority of the property owners in the entire bluff's development to say that they are willing to sell that property to us um Dave described it as a process that would take several years uh the entire development correct or just the one that's in the HOA so not all this is in the HOA because I can see my house and I'm not in an HOA I so like Ridge Crest Drive is not in the HOA is that right correct okay so it's the one the it's the members of the HOA but it's I think Ridge Crest there's a couple just small C to saacks that are not but it is a majority of the bluff's neighborhood I'll vote for it and get er we can't count votes here Jim you know does their HOA have a board it does it would need to be the entire group they have very difficult time getting sure a COR was this yeah oh sure so let's talk a little bit about Creek Side I think it was pretty popular on social media about a week ago yes it was yeah so we're at the corner of Jonathan k Parkway uh Main Street or uh formerly County Road 40 so this uh primarily or this previously was the wastewater treatment site so not a glamorous user uh the site was the city owns it the city does yes the um wastewater treatment facility was decommissioned I think in 2012 that feels right um we've owned the property since then primarily using it now for public services storage so again not a super glamorous user so if you drive by now only only part of it is part of waste correct yep so the area here this traditionally was farmed so some lowland so in the park we have areas of dog park pickle ball which is something we've been hearing a lot about at the city level that people love it we need it looks like we have an avid player and then um I've learned a lot the past week that I should not be calling it frisbee golf it should be dis golf so I learned that I'm taking that feedback um so again this is just a concept level plan we're moving forward with a concept plan to apply for a grant to the DNR so it's the outdoor recreation Grant uh hopeful for a funding of $350,000 for this park the city would be required to have a match but uh we would it would be pretty um insignificant for this park development $350 would go a long way so we have it phased in this concept so the yellow are things that we would construct soon so if we got that Grant we'd move forward with the yellow and then blue would be future amenities as we continue to grow our Park dedication fund and are able to fund different parts of the park so things like the dog park the pickle ball courts uh some trail work a picnic shelter would go in phase one and then phase two would continue with things like the pedestrian bridge and the disc golf course where's there a pedestrian bridge right here over a little it gets a little swampy okay I don't I know it hasn't been farmed in the last 26 years and I'm sure it's long quite a bit I think that it was I think someone was casually farming it pretty recently so using some city property I live on the bluff overlooking okay does it look like beans to you at all so again uh we're moving forward to the DNR Grant application that goes in early this spring we'll hear about it um summer I will say this project is dependent on Grant success so if we aren't successful with that Grant we likely will scale back come up with a different plan um and then something else to mention Harbor Creek obviously runs through this site so you see the creek there we're working with a nonprofit out of St Paul called Great River Greening we got uh $267,000 from the Legacy Foundation to clean up Carver Creek ni this is like really nerdy but we've learned a lot through the process and the creek actually used to uh line the site in this direction so was on the other side of the park the other side of the property but it was moved um likely by mining operations so the creek is actually shorter than it used to be which has led to an increase in erosion because there's more water traveling in a creek bed that was not natural so as part of our work with Great River Greening this fall they'll be working to lengthen the creek to enhance the health of the creek work on erosion uh clean it up to make it a cleaner water body hopefully and restore the creek hopefully to a closer version of what it was so good that will be an exciting project we've I've learned a lot through the process it's been um just really fascinating thinking about what the site once was and I think taking a Wastewater site to a park is a good initiative so that's Creek Side I um will continue taking any feedback so if anyone has comments or questions let me know and again going for that DNR Grant what kind of impact is this going to have on the wildlife uh so I would say there I can't speak specifically for what's in that area but I would say dis golf is probably there's a lot of deer I would say disl is probably an easy user that it's we're I don't think we intend to mess too much with I would say we're going to be adding vegetation to the site in total so hopefully it would be an a quiet user I'd say the dog park might have a little bit more of an impact though we would expect this question yeah uh we' expect this one like you said this year before another one Conant we list the downtown park kind across from the new coffee shop right that that was more contingent on moving the existing building that correct is not eminent so we actually were working on that at a city council level so we have a we just completed a space study so the Public Services team has determined how much space that they need can you tell me the year that might get constructed 26 yeah oh that was the adding on behind the existing yeah okay yeah that was a while out okay okay in the next few years okay so there's uh an addition to the public services building and the fire department to allow for them to store their gear safely so um you'll see some work on that site which then allows us to move equipment we have equipment everywhere right now like start in so many different places so that project uh stores most of it up at public services and at that point we can move forward with the Demolition of the building downtown maybe when they do the levy what's that maybe when they do the levy we're going to get back to the agenda now Bill do you have anything no iate Daniel do you want to communicate just say I've been loving the new coffee shop get away and their and their drinks too I did their drinks for Valentine's Day they pop up for Valentine's Day very good guess they have pretty good jonic are we going to be having too many coffee shops um as an avid coffee drinker I will say there's no such no such thing and they they when we have a coffee shop inside another coffee shop and I think we can and even when I was talking to them about it they said there's more than enough business for two coffee shops and car they were not too concerned and I think it's two pretty different markets too like I think you coffee come for an experience for sure all right Aaron do you have anything else for us I don't think so unless there's questions about anything we're working on if not can I get a motion to adjourn please move to adjourn there's a motion to adjourn is there a second second motion a second to adjourn all in favor say I I I we are adjourned