she's not on either so i don't know let's go i'll just take notes here all right at 6 31 we'll call the monday may 10th city council meeting to order if we could start with the pledge of allegiance please i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all right do we have any additions to the agenda tonight i'll look for a motion to approve the agenda as presented i'll make that motion the motion do we have a second okay we have a motion a second all in favor say aye aye all the same sign motion carries four zero that will take us to public comments if there's anyone who would like to discuss anything that is not on the agenda tonight please come forward seeing none we'll close public comments we'll move to the consent agenda is there anything on the consent agenda that needs to be pulled for further discussion hearing none i'll look for a motion to prove the the consent agenda as presented i'll make that motion second i have a motion and a second all if you ever say aye all right oppose same sign motion carries four zero okay that will take us to uh 6a1 is is if barb's not on do we want to oh i can i can give you okay an overview okay let's go let's go with it then um so uh marin council council the art consortium of carver county they are a non-profit they are asking all cities in carver county to consider some participation ideas in celebration of or during the month of june to celebrate um the prince um it's his fifth anniversary since he has passed and so this is something that they're um wanting to recognize and so they're coming to every carver county city to ask them to participate some of the ideas that they were proposing were kind of changing lights out at city buildings to purple or planting purple flower beds sidewalk chalk art purple balloons or banners or flags and appropriate areas and then also marketing to local residents as well seeing what uh what they can do in their neighborhoods as well so there's more detailed information in your packet so i one suggestion that i think would be appropriate would i think we could do the purple lights on some city buildings and then we could also do some marketing on on social media to to see if residents want to participate as well so with that i'm just looking for some guidance as far as how the council would like to move forward with participating in the month of june for the purple rain celebration for prince it's not a huge financial burden and then yeah maybe whatever we could do on social media to to market for them i think would be would be awesome thoughts ideas no i think it's a good idea he really liked living in chicago absolutely i ran into him several times i think it'd be great do you need motion for that mega or can you just um we can do a motion just in support of it by electromotion to support uh the purple rain celebration for the month of june and putting purple lights up on our city uh buildings as appropriate i'll make that motion second we have motion a second any further discussion all in favor say aye aye same sign motion carries 4-0 that will take us maybe the 682 uh council seat vacancy all right um let me just get to the side quick all right so at the mayor and council at the april 12th meeting the city council accepted a resolution that accepted the resignation of eric voter from the city council and that immediately declared a vacancy so with that um resolution there was a timeline that we approved we would accept letters of interest until april 30th we received four one uh letter or one applicant did pull their letter of interest so we do have three um so those were included in your packet and we will also be taking statements um this evening as well from each applicant um so as you know when we're filling the vacancy because it is under two years we are able to do an appointment um so with that that would the appointment this evening would fill the remainder of this term which would go to december 31st 2022 so with that we will accept we will go through each candidate or each person that submitted a letter of interest and then um we will do a vote and there is a resolution in your packet that would then approve that appointment so the first applicant that we have in the packet is steve albertson so if steve is in the audience with us we would ask that you step up to the podium and we're just asking you to do a statement of interest so i'm uh been a mayor now for almost eight years i've been with konya before that i have my own small business here i do a lot of work with mayor lumber uh my work areas all of mayor waconia surrounding areas um still do some work for hoppers i'm just really interested in serving my community there's much more i can tell you than that so thank you thank you thank you all right oh and then next we have william blinstrom good evening i want to keep this brief because obviously you read my little letter um i didn't tell you much about my professional history i grew up doing conventions and trade shows and special events so i've had a lot of project management and people management experience i ran a small water restoration company and have been in and out of the building contracting build business for about 20 years as well depending on what's been happening i've been living in mayor since 2012 and i have had one child born here in fact my wife was pregnant when we moved in and the other thing that my convention and trade show experience was given has given me is my ability to do mediation or to listen to all sides of a story because i was assigned all the problem customers who were complainers so i got to hear things from this side and things from this side and play mediator between the two so i'd like to think that i can keep an open mind and balance what's the right thing to do between the the two stories so that's it if you have any questions no no no thank you thank you and then lastly we have peggy wagner hello i have been a resident for almost 20 years hard to believe my house has almost paid off i live with my husband and my two kids i work in waconia for a manufacturing construction company we build semi-custom cabinets i supervise a team of 15 people i work in credit and collections so i have a financial background and then i have the complexity of collecting money and trying to pay the bills so i think i have a pretty good grasp on the financial aspect of a business um while operating or running a department of 15 and um you know kind of like he said you know you gotta hear all sides and mediate and come to a resolution that best serves both sides so thank you thank you thank you so with that i thank you all for your interest uh in the vacancy of the city council seat um like maggie said most are filled through an election but because of the uh the term uh that's remaining we are able to go through the appointment process which we're doing so at this time we've heard all your statements and to keep the process from getting skewed through the typical motion process of trying to make motions for one people not being able to make a motion for maybe the candidate that they would prefer we are going to go through um a voting we we have a tally sheet so if everyone can vote for the candidate that they will pass them down to me we'll tally the votes and go that way and if there's in the case of a tie first state statute then the mayor will collect and break the tie all right so with that we have council member mcnealy one vote for peggy wegner council member held one vote for peggy wegner councilmember melender one vote for steve albertson and mayor dodge one vote for peggy wegner so with that we have three votes for peggy and with that i'll look for a motion to approve resolution 5.10.21.20 appointing peggy wegner to fill the council seat from eric voter i'll make that motion we have a motion do we have a second a second we have a motion a second any further discussion so with that thank you all candidates i appreciate it i appreciate the interest uh peggy congratulations and um i look forward to working with you so all in favor say aye aye aye opposed same sign motion carries 4-0 perfect thank you thank you all what do you say yes i will be in touch with you yeah um 2000 yeah it's gonna be yeah yep i'll be in touch with you um you're welcome to stay for this meeting um but yeah we'll be in touch okay all right with that let's move to 6a3 the roundabout all right mayor and council in front of you this evening is the final draft of the concept for the monument sign at the roundabout so staff has been working on finalizing the concept and getting it to mndot for approval at the pass city council meeting uh staff did present two lan monument or sign options and the council decided that they would like to stick with the monument sign as it would match the one at the south end of town um the monument sign would be financed through the capital fund we did budget for this um in the past however we did not purchase it and so it has been that money has gone into the capital fund and so we are proposing that the monument signed portion will come out of there um i did include the balance right now um the landscaping portion we will pay for out of the beautification fund that we did budget for this year so with that there is the roundabout sign in your packet um that is what it will look like and then the concept of where it will go so staff is recommending approval of the monument sign in the amount of 22 136 dollars to be paid for out of the 435 capital project fund all right with that look for a motion to approve the monument sign for 21 136 i'll move that we have a motion do we have a second second motion a second any further discussion well i see we got the purple cone flowers i mean we're right in line with the purple rain right love that carl i don't think it's posture maggie i i've known other cities that have gotten grants for signs from the state can we look into that um we can look and look into it for grants um again we're always looking for grants and if you ever come across one we're always welcome i mean we welcome that information so we can look at it as well are you specifically asking for a grant for this sign or are you yeah i mean you can always you can always purchase and then apply for the grant no no you can't you usually have to um you can't generally the grants work where you cannot purchase something ahead of time and get reimbursed you have to apply for the grant ahead of time and then get reimbursed so that that's just i could be wrong but that's generally how grants have worked at any time that i've applied for them yeah i agree it's certainly worth checking into and see if you can find something and you said this was budgeted for previous years it was it's just because of the the timeline we've been working with and it's just getting pushed off it's perfect on the quote there's taxes involved so it's a different total but there's no taxes because we're right we would they usually take that off once we submit a st3 form as so i guess my question would be then we could approve this tonight but the actual purchase of it we would probably have to table because if we want to look into the grant then um yeah we would have to wait until that process we go through that cases can we still approve it and we have the motion a second to approve it so can we move forward on that and before you purchase them can you just check i mean do some quick check see if there's anything out there and if there's not then then purchase it sure yep if we if we phrase it that way yep okay all right any further discussion all right all in favor say hi i actually noticed one thing so on the court it shows the sign has um the mirror logo on the front and the back is that something that everyone would be interested in or would it just be coming into town say like thanks for visiting or something no it just says mirror rising community on front and back i don't think we need it on the back oh i didn't i didn't catch enough i just caught it now when i was studying it again and i thought i saw it when it i just want to make sure that because it would be a the price would be reduced with the smaller sign or uh i think i would be fine with just coming in yeah i don't think we need it on the back unless it's like thanks for visiting you know our community or some of the welcome sign on the other end right we're coming on that side so i would assume just would just put it this one side okay i just wanted to clarify before you want us to amend the motion then maggie or withdraw this one or what do you or just if you won't exceed the 22-136 yeah you can say removing the back um you can amend it to remove the the second sign and then not to exceed backside made the motion i think larry made the motion do you want to amend your motion to only have it on the front or do you not would you rather not how goofy is that going to look what's the dimension of the sign there'll be landscaping around it and stuff i don't think it'll look that bad right so with the landscaping that's being proposed there'll be taller bushes right on the back side then on the back side yep like the grass that grass gets real tall that's pretty cool grass right yeah there's grasses i think there's these are more on these shrubs right i'll mend it to um only do the side facing north with the lettering the reverse side blank for the monument sign the second was that help or mcneilly all right yeah i'll second that okay any further discussion all in favor say aye aye aye all the same sign motion carries 4-0 thanks kyle all right 63b mndot limited use permit all right mayor and council in front of you this evening is the limited use permit with the state of minnesota department of transportation this would be to allow us to have a limited use permit for 10 years this would allow us to construct the monument sign and do landscaping within the roundabout so the limited use permit is in your packet and would be approved through resolution 5-10-12 this was sent to the city by mndot so it has been approved by mndot but in order for us to move forward we do need to sign this limited use permit so staff is recommending approval of the permit between the city of mayor and mndot by approving resolution 5-10-20-21 all right any questions on the limited use permit um so it's 10 years and that's that's just typical for limited use yeah it's it's typical um so they just want the flexibility to be able to like if for whatever reason worst case scenario they had to do something there they have the flexibility to to be able to use the roundabout if they need to in the future so it's it's kind of like when the city issues a right-of-way permit for a funds like it would be at our expense if we wanted to replace it if they had to do work there so it's a pretty standard contract or agreement all right now look for a motion to approve resolution 5.10.21.21 i'll make that motion a second i have a motion a second any further discussion all in favor say aye aye motion carries 4-0 all right 6b one wastewater treatment facility with new germany um so i will let dave and ryan jump into this so um as you know we have been looking into uh regionalization with new germany um and so in the past um we've been again talking about the pros and cons of allowing new germany to connect in and the last time we talked about this was in january and we had ryan kind of outline his findings as far as as far as what it would mean for new germany to connect in and so tonight we have an update on that report there was additional findings as far as cost and kind of the overall project scope so with that we're gonna do a powerpoint presentation all right uh yeah thanks maggie um you know so this is something we've been you know on and off talking about i think for over a year now i don't even remember exactly when these discussions started but you know new germany's wastewater treatment facility is a pond system and it's over capacity so they've been in the position where they've had a look at some options as to where they go from here they can't expand their pond system so they're looking at some different options as to how they kind of move on and continue to grow from a wastewater standpoint so to look at this a ultimately met council stepped in and funded a study to take a look at if one of the options was to come to take wastewater flow from new germany to mayor how does that look from standpoint what are the impacts on mayor's wastewater facility what are the costs and some of the impacts if that was looked at as an option so next slide maggie so the current conditions of the plant is um from a capacity standpoint the city is still in good shape from a flow standpoint or at 40 percent of the capacity so just kind of the physical flow that you can take through the plant a lot of capacity left here there's uh we're at 30 percent from a loading capacity so the stuff that's in the wastewater that we're trying to take out we still have capacity to do that the one thing that's uh more urgent than the other systems at the plant right now is the biosolid storage so those solids that come out during the treatment process we're at basically busting at the seams right now dealing with that uh so kyle has to just uh arrange for getting rid of those bile salads more often than he'd like to and that's something we're gonna have to look at sooner or later regardless of what happens with our discussions with new germany from a regional regionalization standpoint if we were to take new germany's flow into our plant um obviously we've got more flow coming in it takes up some of that capacity so our capacity goes from that 40 percent from a flow standpoint to 64 percent of capacity and the loading goes from 30 to 36 percent so um when we're looking at kind of the planning of the plant we do this in 20-year increments and the process when we look to make improvements or expand the capacity of the plant we start doing that when we reach 85 percent of capacity so even by pulling new germany's flow in we're still under that threshold where we're not looking at needing immediate improvements to take on that flow but obviously it pushes us closer that 85 percent where we start some of those things in motion um from the design projections uh mayor alone we would look at that planning process in 2035 when we're projecting our growth our flow um we're anticipating that when we get to the year 2035 we would start that planning process to be expanding our plant if we were to bring new germany on board that extra flow kind of accelerates that process and we would we're basically about 10 years ahead of schedule from a planning standpoint so in 2025 we would be starting that planning for of capacity expansion at the plant so the major expansion then would require be required sooner if new germany came on we've looked at the costs associated with that and we're anticipating that the expansion that would need be needed at the plan is a seven to nine point two million dollar job to get that added capacity again about ten years ahead of schedule from if we were on our own um so what we've looked at is if the germany was to come on we treat them as basically a one connection we take their flow uh but we would charge them a connection fee to hook into our system and we've looked at the uh ryan code who's you know done that this report has looked at a couple different ways and so we've taken uh from a cost standpoint we've estimated an 8.2 million dollar plant expansion and then operating a maintenance cost of 350 000 a year to understand uh the dollars that would need to be covered if we're going to have the users of the system pay for it what we've done is equated new germany's flow trying to make it equivalent to mayor's flow from the standpoint of we have so many gallons coming in we know we have this many connections that's this many gallons per connection we've used that same math and applied it to new germany to have an equivalent number of connections that we would account for if we were to tie them in assuming that we would charge sixty five hundred dollars per connection and that would be if if mayor if you built a new house in mayor to connect to the sewer system it's a seventy sixty five hundred dollar connection fee that's what we're proposing or assuming in this exercise if you take the number of users in new germany and you times it by sixty five hundred dollars um that's what we were proposing that their connection fee would be so when you do that math their equivalent connections as 482 connections that we would be looking to charge them for at the 6500 that's 3.1 million dollars would be their connection fee just to tie into the system in addition to that mayor's going to continue to grow so we're going to have some new connections doing that math and looking our growth that's one point just about 1.7 million dollars in connection fees that are assumed in this exercise so the result is 3.3 million dollars that would need to be financed for a project to make that 8.2 million dollar expansion 350 000 a year to run the plant um you'd still be financing a 3.3 million dollar project when you take that with the o m cost the monthly cost of the plant is 46 000 so assuming a total of 1 340 connections the every monthly bill to cover that cost then is 34. a month approximately now full disclosure we're not your financial advisor so what we're trying to do is just run some kind of some simple math to kind of just get a feel for what are the costs we're dealing with here how's it compared to some of our costs right now to try to understand is there a benefit to the existing users and future users and mayor if this connection was to happen so if you look at your existing base charge of 20.65 cents plus uh 7.85 cents per thousand gallons of again using those same values in running the math it a current sewer bill is estimated at 104 per month and if you estimate that 65 of the bill is for the wastewater plant you know you run that map it's about 67 a month that a user is paying for the wastewater plant right now if new germany's the connect they would again be charged as a single user so we're we're not sending a thousand bills to new germany residents they get one bill for the flow that they're sending to us so there is a benefit from an economy of scale and some efficiencies that are gained by adding that flow in there the drawback is that obviously we accelerate our planning that things that we're we're looking at having to start and think about in 2035 you move that up to a few years down the road here so the benefit for the economy of scale is that you know the treatment's only going to become more expensive when we're looking at the some of the limits that we're doing that are looking at plant with our new new permit that we're uh we're getting for phosphorus um if you take the 8.2 million dollar project you spread it across the users you get a cost of six thousand one hundred twenty dollars per connection so for the same project scaled down for just mayor it's estimated that that project would cost 6.4 million dollars so an 8.2 million dollars if we're expanding considering new germany 6.4 million dollar project if we're by ourselves that eventually we're going to have to do you take it spread that across our users alone it's 7 400 per connection it's more expensive per connection if we didn't include new germany correct deal so so you're you're still going to have some expansion costs in the future you're going to have less users it's going to be a less expensive project but you're also going to have less users to spread that cost across now again this is we're just there are some assumptions in here we're just running some simple math but it appears that there is the potential again with that economy of scale that there could be a benefit for the users of mayor so where we're at right now again not being your financial advisors but it looks like there could be a benefit here um that the next steps would be one is we've ryan's had some conversations as recently as today i believe with the engineer from new germany they're looking at several different options they're not sure that the the mayor connection is makes a lot of sense for them right now or not with that said they are still interested in having a meeting just to go through this report understand some of the assumptions that were made talk through that a little bit just to make sure that they're considering everything that they have as an option to them and so the question for the council tonight as it's kind of been all along this as we've gathered more information is is this a conversation you want to continue to have um i think in my opinion where we're at um we've gone through all this work uh we've been talking about this for a while it probably makes sense to sit down with them and at least have the conversation to kind of close the loop on everything that's been considered and and understand where this goes from here i think we've indicated in the past from that council standpoint they they like the idea of trying to combine some of these plants that doesn't mean that it's right for you kind of what their position on this will be or whether or not they try to step in and and help facilitate something they have no idea but um i guess where we're at tonight is uh just looking for some direction as to whether or not you'd like to set up that meeting with through germany i believe what they were looking at would be staff and the mayors um you know just again have a conversation if that makes sense to you if i left anything out i think you covered it well when you say planning sorry when you say planning start planning in 2025 instead of 20 35 how quickly does the new plant have to be built you know like so everything's moved up 10 years how long does the planning of this take it's facility planning generally takes one to two years um that we'd have to do a report and then submit it to mpca for review and from that point then we go into design and start construction so it's generally about a three to four to five year process okay so we'd start planning that in 2025 to build in by 2030 would be done and so if you look at that remember you know kind of that 85 capacity where you start that process with that exactly in mind that from kind of the time you start that it's going to take a while before you have that expansion up and running so yeah you have to start before it's absolutely needed right okay i just was curious just for financial purposes you know looking at where we're at on all our bonds and for a tax impact for you know if we did it later and not included new germany would we be would it not be as expensive for the residents by adding another bond to the um again i think we would have to work with the financial advisor i think um we they did our um utility rate study so we would just kind of re look at that and again making assumptions on our growth and new germany's growth and kind of the cost of this project we would first kind of see what the rates would maybe be with a new rate or an updated rate study but then we would also put it into our debt debt schedule as well but keeping in mind that these debt this debt payment does not uh get put on the tax roll generally it's it's by utility user fees yeah and it's you know it it really comes down to in a large part what your connection fee is so the philosophy of the city ever since i've been here is that growth pays for itself so that when you're bringing on the growth you have expansion of the system and costs associated with that that the new growth that you're bringing in the community is paying for that expansion it's not going on the existing users um so you know that ultimately that's the benefit of more growth from again back to that economy of scale the more new connections you have coming in the more revenue you're generating for some of these improvements what um when i first became engineer just some of you maybe have kind of heard us talk about this before but mayor was in an interesting spot compared to other communities that you started expanding your infrastructure back in the early 2000s because you had growth coming right you had developable property had developers at your door and you needed to expand just to start to grow you know the cold water hidden creek fieldstone eventually came so you built a new water tower you built the wastewater treatment facility um a water plant so you had all these costs to accommodate the growth that was coming into the city in 2008 then you can remember is we we had a problem with housing so the city had taken on debt made these improvements for the growth that was coming and then the growth stopped and it created some issues from now you had some debt that still needed to be paid but you didn't have the connection fees coming in where i'm going with all this is there were other communities that were on the verge of growing and that too then having to expand their system in 2008 came and they went well thank goodness we didn't spend all this money because now we don't have any connections right well now you're on the flip side of that now where you're you've expanded all of your facilities again if if you do if you go it alone you got you know until 2035 before you have to look at expanding your plan so the good thing from the city of mayor standpoint you're in a good position where we can continue to grow without some of the these large expansive expansion costs um we just have to now take care of of the things we have we have bile salads we have pumps that are getting old you know yeah so your capital improvement plan tries to account for those things but we're in good shape from that standpoint but now going forward when we look at this kind of next round of expansion um that's what we'll have to start doing is working with your financial advisor to make sure that those connection fees are set appropriately with the idea that you want the growth to pay for your expansion you're not you you to the extent you can control it not put that back on the rest of the users and i think a lot of the projects are hitting their um that 20 25 year mark too so those a lot of those bonds are gradually falling off as well yeah we still we still levy for that shortfall yes yeah i think for the sewer we do we're able to yep yep so you're saying like we have a our flow is fine but our solids we have an issue no oh well the yes the biosolids right now you you need to add uh biosolid storage at the facility so is that included in that 8.2 million it is yes okay and and that but again that will be something that is going to have to uh be accelerated compared to i think that's really the the main thing that that is going to happen sooner than later so that was the 13 320 that we go to leicester prairie that we paid how often do we do that so our connection fee with new germany would be 3.1 million as we've as we've proposed that based on our assumptions and then they would pay us a yearly fee of 350 000. they would they would pay they would pay your they would pay for their flow so just like you do at your home they would get a bill for the flow that they send every month okay but that'd be one bill yep and so that would be like the residence here we get a three percent increase every year so that would get a three percent increase or whatever we would it would be a an agreement that we would have to figure out again i i know we've talked about you know it's something that we would have to really yeah the details would have to get worked out as you know because if you're new jeremy here probably says okay well we're fine with this but now we've lost control of this too and they'd probably want some safeguards in there to understand what their exposure is as far as how fast these rates could come go up they'd probably want some guarantee that you're not going to just every time you get a new expense that the new germany bill goes up but nobody else does things like that um that would all have to have to be worked out and again you know i think if if we sit down with you germany they're going to take exception to some of the assumptions we've made and the way we've calculated uh that 3.1 million dollars i think ryan could tell you that their initial impression is that doesn't sound right to us at all so if if we were serious about this it you know it would have to be hammered out at some point again it sounds like maybe they're they're looking at some different options and coming to mayor at this point anyway um but again it it it seems like it would be appropriate to have the meeting just if nothing else kind of closed the close the loop on the discussions we've been having the question more is are we okay with moving up uh the planning of it by ten years if if we agreed with having new germany if we don't like that idea then you just say that this isn't feasible for us right i mean yeah i mean you know where we're at today like if we're okay with possibly moving up expansion by 10 years yeah we're looking just for that next step should we do that and yeah i've said all along unless it makes sense for me or i have no interest in doing this at all yeah has got to come out right at this point i have no problem going to new germany now i'm presenting them with this stuff and see they may write right then say no forget it we're done we don't want to and remind me dave who who funded the the report that council that council then okay yeah mayor remember we were kind of it floundered for a little while because everybody was kind of new germany was asking us for some information and we had to pull to even start helping answer some questions we we had put some work into it and um met council basically stepped in to get it off of square one so just a quick understanding the only effect it's going to have on mayor is the initial connection fee for new homes it will be less if we would join with new germany or existing water bills will be less for current residents water bills they will be the connection fee would be the same for a new home in mayor as it would be for what we're charging new germany we're hoping with the intent of spreading it out now with 482 additional right and then and ryan is here as my fact checker so i can let him correct anything i've misstated now we don't know the significance no we don't yet until we work with our financial advisor we'd have to do like a different rate study i mean there's a lot more but i think the question is is we can go down and you know if they say yeah we would like to move forward then there's another conversation that's probably going to have a lot more details to determine if i don't want it to cost our residents more money many more conversations yeah yeah yeah i'm okay with moving forward and saying that if this is an option that they're interested in that we can continue moving forward yeah i think from 10 000 feet it looks like this could be good for us and that's what we were trying to do was to do some simple math to see is to your point is there does it is there a potential for a benefit to the the mayor residents it looks like maybe there could be yeah especially since we will have to expand anyway you know eventually that this could yes it speeds it up but your lower construction costs because you're 10 years earlier and you're sharing it with more homes right but i mean we would need a significant decrease right yeah we have 3.1 million then that goes towards the project from those hotel fees although without new germany we're at about 1.4 million less right than predicted if it was just mayor but yeah i would need way more information if i was to say yes let's do it but high level this looks like it's something worthwhile running it uh to speak with new germany let them know where we're at and i think we're all four of us since soon to be five i can't imagine anyone would vote for this if it didn't benefit our residents right and there's just no point in it so but it appears we're getting there and i think every step will we'll have a better idea right any other questions for the engineers not right now for those guys anything else did i step in it no no i mean the big benefit is its economy and scale um i i think like just looking at like net council in the twin cities metro area those are all regional plants and the benefit is all the users pay lower bills because there's so many users so my other question because i just like do you guys just is there like just a pipe that that is now installed or like i don't even know like how do you even get it here lift station and yeah that would be on there and that they would have to build a main lift station and they you they would use their pawn system as an equalization so it would be the same flow rate uh max flow rate that they could send each day and we would basically just have a metering station they would be responsible for those improvements and then it just comes through something that would use right away is all the way down to our basically it would just run it right down corner road 30. yeah that's just me like you have to start where i flush the toilet like that's how you explain it to me when your kids flushed a t-shirt and kyle's got to go clean out the impeller too much they have ponds and then they can hold them in palms and make sure the clothes are but again that and that would be part of the details again that have to be worked out as to what what we ultimately will accept from them um if limits change how does that get factored in you know it so they're long ways from being able to understand all the details but that's where it's at right now yeah for me i'm fine meeting with um new germany uh maggie and i certainly can be available to do that okay you need a motion or are you good with just the conversation i think we're fine i think we're fine with the conversation yeah i think so too and everyone's okay with that so then yeah we'll work with maggie then to facilitate getting that meeting set up perfect sounds good thank you thank you thank you for the summary too that was great just come with more details if we get to the final like how it all like gets tagged how how long will we have the that we're levying right now for the the past project when the housing market busted say that again that we're levying right now to pay off some of the improvements that dave talked about right like it's like a 70 home plan that we levy for new development is like on page 182 of the financial last in march that was presented to us to pay off that debt do you know when that is paid off oh bond it was i would have to uh maybe review that i i don't know offhand okay so i would have to get that information you after the meeting maybe get get some clarification all right all right with that then we'll move to six c one radio pace from the new tanker all right mayor council we are looking for it to an approval to purchase a motorola remote mount radio for the new fire tanker this was brought to the previous city council meeting at that time council tabled this item to get more information and research the possibility of applying for a dnr grant we did do the research on the grant um staff determined that moving forward with a grant application would not be beneficial at this time because the grant would not be received if we did receive it until december i mean september 2021 um because the city will be receiving the new tanker in june uh but we are being proactive in looking at other current needs of the fire department to determine if that application submittal would would make sense for for those needs so with that um it would be paid out of the fire department capital fund for dollars and 3846.40 cents um so the fire chief and city administrator are recommending the purchase of the radio in that amount to be paid out of that fund if you have anything you want to add no um i guess the only thing i had is as far as that dnr grant um and there was another i think it was excel center point um we are submitting for some other stuff on those grants but just for this the timing of this doesn't work out right okay good so all this set us up is this the same radio now we have in all the other trucks yes we'll be set up with the state of the this was stated there okay was this budgeted for for 2021 specifically i mean we had budget in there for the pagers and stuff like that and radios and stuff like that was over that you know being we received 10 pagers from camdens we're not using all that money that was kind of budgeted there so yeah okay other questions right any other questions for the chief all right with that i'll look for a motion to approve the purchase of a new radio or radio for the new tanker uh for 3846 dollars i'll move that again we have a motion and we have a second any further discussion i was the one that asked them look into the grant so i also looked into it and so this grant is every year from april or june we can apply and i'm a big believer and we should apply for every single grant we can it's a one-page grant so i hope in the future that like if we know that things are coming up we can supply every year we do apply for it every year pretty much uh it's they award it to you'll get it like every other year or every third year is usually what you end up getting it no matter what but yeah we do submit for it every year yeah you've done a good and we've taken advantage quite quite often with those grants too yeah we got grants for i think the fire gear some other stuff too regulator breathers whatever any other discussion all right all in favor say aye aye aye oh same side motion carries 4-0 all right city council reports larry anything to report on not this week nikki nope chat no park board tomorrow night and i've only had one i had a public works meeting but it was talking about the wastewater treatment plan so dave's already summarized all that so and i have nothing else uh i'll look for a motion to adjourn i'll make that motion hold a second motion a second all in favor say hi motion carries 4-0 we are adjourned all right without maggie i think we'll jump let's jump right into the work session are you are you ready or do you need a few minutes um no i'm okay okay um summit workshop uh to order for monday may 10th all right um so the first item to discuss is the current fire station property at 400 ash avenue um right now uh staff is looking for direction on future goals ideas for the property the current fire station that's at 400 ash avenue north so included in your packet are some options that we can consider we are able to explore the option of leasing the building or selling the building if there's any other ideas please let me know and i can do the research as well i did include the process of both in of the leasing and the selling option in your packet just for general discussion but right now the main focus tonight would be having that discussion in providing some guidance to staff as to how to move forward so my first question would be we don't feel that there's any need for it for city functions um if you yeah that would be the discussion if there's anything you can think of like would cities like would public works want to utilize that space at any point would be my first question second question is we would have to rezone it correct um depending on depending on what you use it for yes you if you did sell it it would have to be rezoned for that use um can you be like specific and say you know just because it is the starting into a neighborhood and what types of businesses could be zoned for i don't know if you have i think right now that area is guy or the long-term plan guides it if we were to sell it as similar to the other properties which would be commercial um just to be consistent with kind of the other businesses around there i would say it would probably go to commercial or be recommended from staff to go to commercial okay do you have any idea the value i do not know the value right now i i see your point of view i mean if we need it i mean it might be worth but i'm gonna have to weigh that out and see who was what kind of interest there is i would put a business in there any time before we take it i know there's interest if that was a change if that was it i'd add on to our building if we need for public work i mean i don't know i want to save it just for public work if we can get a business on on main street right so like my question is let's say uh auto mechanic it sold to an auto mechanic can we have things in the ordinance where they can't have you know broken down cars like sitting out on the cement or you know like i'm not trying to like how do you make sure that it's still yeah because it's the beginning of a neighborhood it's like real visible from every aspect right yeah that's site i don't know what it is would be limited for storage anyways because there's not a lot of outside um storage space but i know um again i could i can talk with the city planner but i know there are certain if you do zone certain um properties within a certain let's say commercial there are conditional uses within certain districts and if that's a if that use is based on conditions yes you would a you can go through the process to put a conditional use permit on that property that would then place conditions that that business has to meet on that site which one could be you cannot have outside storage i mean does anybody i mean is that is that like a thing that's this one my biggest concern of it i would love to sell it and you know best bet is to a private owner for storage well you can yeah but you can't really be picky on what they're you know but i want to make sure we're we got to look at all options oh yeah i mean first what's the value of it is the building worth anything what would it cost for the city to tear down the building and sell just the property too um or i mean there's so many different things to look at i think for me i think we should start with the eda and see what their thoughts might be and if they have some ideas for it and i think one option that you can consider if you want to develop that site is an rfp which would um people would i believe put in proposals for that site and and then the city would have more more control over what it becomes i mean could we get an estimated value of it i mean can we call someone or can you look at yeah i think we could get like a current um i could see even on carver county what it's currently assessed at um so we can start there yeah then i think we look at all options and weigh them out and if public works was was interested in it i make sure that they raise their hand like i mean i want i just want to hear all options you know so well like if you were going to i don't want it i don't want it to seem like we're interested you know um but ideally from a public works standpoint it's more practical and cost-effective just have all your equipment any tools and everything at one location versus driving granted it's not far away but it's still a hassle going back and forth from building the building currently we have our old public works building and that we have enough storage with that building for all of our equipment plus our new public works building if that were to go away or the park board i know has talked about building this picture this one out here the old one um then we would need somewhere to go with our storage equipment right now we kind of swap uh seasonal equipment so we got snowplows in there right now and we you know then we swap again for uh winter then we pull snowballs but lawnmowers and everything else over there yeah if we were to lose that then we would need somewhere else to go with it and then the new the old fire station would be practical for it so would you completely want to move in there and get rid of the one in the industrial park as well so the old fire station i know we talked about the old fire station when we purchased the new building over on shimkor and the main major downfall for it is there's no outside storage and i have an outside storage i mean you go to our shop right now and we've got piles of rock out there we got house of sand out there we got riprap i mean we have everything we need or salt storage absolutely so we have everything we need on hand for projects emergencies that sort of thing so that was the big downfall um and then if we trucks here and have your salt over there yeah and vice versa let's say we move our piles to the wastewater plant and we got to have two guys here we drive a loader out there we gotta drive truck out there and it's just more of a hassle you have room for expansion out there we have plenty of room for expansion over it oh if we sold the fire station use the money for expansion of the ideally yes but we'll see if the fire department wants that i mean that'd be ideal if we're eventually potentially going to get rid of the storage up here we have gotten costs to expand our current public works building and it's it's doable was the ballpark on that the expansion we got a price last year from ram buildings to do everything for 390 000. to double the size of it the old station's got to be worth that county valley dual station at 364 000. perfect that's what the county valued at so would we get that higher than that it would be higher than i think county value yeah i believe the city would have to figure out what they would wanna do you wanna just start getting some value some idea on that you wanna start working with yeah yeah so yeah no that's fine i just i wanted to come tonight just to get some direction if there was something you were completely set on if you were we want to sell it let's go that route we want to lease it let's go that route if you want to explore multiple options i will explore them all and i can bring them back all optional for me i don't know if i want to get into leasing to be honest but um selling it absolutely i'd love to get another business on main street i don't i mean with power works just for it as a storage of swapping out cold and summer i think we're better off doing it all out at the public works area then even if we got rid of this for because of the park board yeah this just isn't ideal for public works trucks right yeah you have to consider too the location um just noise as well in the in the night if we're plowing and we're backing up and stuff i could i'm just throwing that out there too it's just one thing we would have to consider is well how would an rfp work you just put it out and people uh i want to buy it and i want to yes storage yeah so you would yep you put in an rfp i haven't done one before but i would i would bring that option back to you with more detail um so i think you would essentially say this is what we're looking for um let uh private um investors or developers submit their rfp and then you would is it kind of like when you sell like we've sold some of our or is that like equipment didn't we do it where that was an rfp that was just closed bids similar it's a similar question okay yeah so it would it it would give you more control as to what happens with the site instead of just selling it and letting them do kind of what they want it would allow you to kind of view several ideas if we sold the fire station does the fire department get any of that money back at all either i don't know that would be probably a council decision yeah absolutely right yeah so that yeah that would be part of the discussion i'm in favor of keeping the building at least for a while till we determine like what what public works needs what are the fire department needs are going to be until we get everything finalized i mean yeah we are still growing right i know um there has been discussion at the public works level for a couple years now as far as expansion we just haven't determined a um we've started budgeting for and and levying to save up for that building um so it is in the works we just don't have an exact time frame yet when that expansion would happen and i know that that would that expansion would essentially meet all the needs of the public works department into the future i i'm confident that with this new fire station there's been a lot of discussion as far as how long it will meet the needs of this department and since we did the council did approve the two extra bays i'm confident that their needs will be met but again it'll be i think it's just going to take that long anyways before we start getting information it'll yeah no interest in putting this on the market next month it would be well after they're moved out in november for sure yeah it'll i think that might solve some of that um there you know they'll get they'll get moved in they'll be set there we'll know they are and keep it as an term but all the new public works is being built and if that one's torn down to store equipment in the right we we do actually from off wall from our uh standpoint we do hopefully hope on utilizing the building even this winter and probably just kind of trying it out from that once the fire department moves out and they're all done with it and everything because then we'd probably keep actually the bigger equipment over there or our trucks over there or vice versa kind of have uh easier to take the plows off that sort of thing so i mean i think we should be interested let's talk to the plan our city planner just about what uses or how would that look if we were to move it to commercial and then i would say what is kind of uh the market value not necessarily the county that's a couple years behind that that value i know the mark i don't know about commercial real estate right now so um let me get someone to come in and take a look yeah just get some ideas so we at least know what we're what we have options for and then this winter public works uses it sees how what they think of it and then next year we start you know having discussions on what to do with it and then okay so um just to summarize do you want me to not do any leasing research is that kind of a no leasing i don't see i don't care to lease it okay i mean at this point i mean if but you know if the right offer came in you know i don't know what i don't know right okay i'll just keep it in this kind of like a side thing but i'll do more research on the marketing it and the value and what what potential uses are all right is that good then for that maggie yep all right let's move to the pond maintenance policy thanks andy all right um so this this did come to council in february um we've been at the staff level and at the public works committee level we've been really hammering out how this policy is going to work as far as a timeline as far as budgeting what's realistic as as far as with the limited staff that we have what can we what can we do each year and so we've been meeting and and making some changes as we go and so the major changes that i that you will see tonight relate to monitoring and inspection um and at first we were trying to more so summarize the uh 2020 mayor stormwater pond assessment document and create a really detailed list of which pawns would be served or maintained when um what we did now is we we referenced that document and we have some flexibility we're just saying that what staff will prioritize and phase the maintenance of the entire system based on the data um just with talking with public works and the engineer we're confident that we could even do the primary more intensive maintenance within the next couple years that would include cleaning out the or inspecting the inlets and outlets and cleaning those out and making sure all obstructions are removed we would also have public works i believe this this part is already being done where we just go out and do a check on every single pond um in the spring season or kind of before the growth happens um and then the i think the big question too is pond sedimentation a lot of our pawns with the development process were hitting 20 to 25 years it's a natural occurring process that things flow into the pond the sediment accumulates and it it will eventually accumulate to the point that something will need to be done um most likely dredging so the oh i apologize i didn't put it in there but we talked about it um so how we would what what we would do is we would start um probably in the next couple years testing the ponds for sediment levels and then we would start determining um based on what we find when dredging the dredging schedule will happen um so that that's the big piece yeah expensive to start dredging so we need to get a good handle on right which ones have to be done now right so we can start planning for that right and i think a big part of and kyle can speak to it too um going out and looking at all the inlets and outlets will give us a good idea of or at least a basic understanding as far as um where sediment levels are as well just just eyeing it um but i think that's kind of the next step as well is figuring out where those sediment levels are and then doing a dredging schedule and then figuring out the financial schedule for that part um i think what other i know a big part of this big part of the discussion uh will be educating residents again this is going to be a proactive but also education process where there's responsibility on both ends because a lot of these ponds are um come up to the backyards of people's properties and when people so long story short we're just educating people on how we can prolong these pawns through just best practices um and that includes not dumping leaves keeping debris out of it keeping garbage out as much as possible um so that'll be a big big part of the process as well is is starting to get this document out to residents showing them what we're doing but then what else they can do because i know there's been complaints over the years about kind of growth and smell and again what can we do what can they do to prevent that lastly i know as part of this it was we these are common questions that we get um i think one thing that we're going to have to do is when we do start doing intensive maintenance we do need to contact residents that do have docs or structures in there and we need to work with them to educate them on why they should not be in there and work with them on getting them removed just because it can really affect the integrity of the pond and how it functions [Music] so with that that's that's kind of my summary of this document i'd like to get it back to council for final approval and then we can start kind of the education process whether it's on in the newsletter on social media this document will be accessible like if residents want to come and get a copy we can do it that way too but um i'm open for anything i'm good with the plan i mean i think you put a lot of work into it i do i would like to see uh education plan you know and what we think we want to do i mean we can put something on social media but it's really it's people who live on them are the ones who are really truly the ones we're going to care the most about not that everyone shouldn't be educated but you know do we want to hit these groups and and what kind of education are we going to that's a big piece to this and i want to make sure we capture that yeah and like a little more of a detail than what we think we can do for an education right and there's also yeah we can do open houses um just kind of sit down have a ques q a session so there's a big misconception there's a lot of people who think that it's a lake they're living on and and don't fully understand what the intent of these ponds are right and from what i've heard realtors were telling them that because they were selling the houses so the education the education is going to go a long way right yeah and i know with that i've been trying to put uh i know i've really stressed that carver county water water sorry water management um that they can put out some education materials as well or create some as well county-wide and i've been pushing that on social media too because i was great i don't think we're the only city that's dealing with this so oh but otherwise i'm i'm good with the policy i think we should look at targeting the homes that are on on there i don't know if we can you know chad said that there's mailer options that are pretty inexpensive that we could you know with that small of a group though you're almost better off just mailing it yourself first i think it needs to be more of a direct like not to these people in a good plan more than just a social media post or something where they they can get an actual letter or smack yeah keep getting more or like an open house or it was larry who mentioned you know grouping it and meeting in a park and letting you know these groups come to a park and get some of the information or things like that but yeah i i would say um i would say to keep it open to the whole community too because this is these ponds feed storm water from all over so that's where i think it's good i mean but i think a lot of them i think we really do have to focus in on the group too well i mean in the parts where it talks about you know maintaining around that no don't put grass clippings in there so there could be residents that are actually following these rules to try to help with some of that algae boom like fertilizer it says you fertilize your yard it rains it goes into the pond and now you're just fertilizing the algae growth right so by directing it to some of those homeowners then everybody can see that because the fertilizer from my house isn't going to affect those ponds because i don't live on a pond necessarily right i mean it does go through the storm water and goes to the to the river to be great you're putting all the fertilizer in the river it affects every resident but i'm thinking right like putting a dock in a pond i don't i don't live on a pond yeah here i don't but that's where we got to get specific to the people who live around them i agree i think you do both but i think we do a little bit more of a stronger focus on the things that people have come to us like about fountains and the smell and some tips to help i agree so in in this paperwork our palm maintenance that we have our we have our assessment then i mean we have a we have our plan that we've we've already addressed like all the priority fives the 11 that are rated five of the 45. so we haven't what what this updated document does is it allows based on a staff level discussion we will be addressing those this year we're confident we can but this document just to have the council approve it allows staff the flexibility to reference the document that information in that stormwater plan that was provided by the engineer it gives us the flexibility to determine which ones need to be prioritized well i can tell you there's 11 ponds that were rated number five yes they're the worst so in most of those like vegetation sediments at the inlet and outlet so does that mean he can you can take a backhoe in there and dig those out there or for that would be the idea and that was one of the reasons we wanted to start with inlets and outlets as it's accessible the other piece from an education standpoint is we have some places though we don't know how they according to get in there because there's sheds in the way in fences and trees and that so that's part of the exercise we went through was to try to identify some of the challenges to even get in there for maintenance and being able to identify some of those challenges and we have the right away property owners to say hey um we have the right-of-way in the easements now after 20 years and 25 years like they've said things have shown up in their fences and now we have two or three owners later who have no idea of that even happen so it's that education part so we're trying to get this in place so then we can reference back to that yeah and and if you recall or for for the couple of you who are here when we started this discussion too is right now there's nobody making us do this right so it's part of the city's infrastructure i mean the storm water system is just as important as some of the other infrastructure we want to maintain the ponds um they they just have kind of gone unattended for you know 20 you know since they were built and and so that's to a certain extent were behind or actually say we were behind from a maintenance standpoint but from the standpoint of anybody telling us we have to do it we're trying to get organized to be proactive okay so then our goal is to try and get to those 11 this year yet yeah okay so yeah public works we call them through the pond assessment that bolton make did last uh spring or summer and uh i got the same list we got 11 ponds all all these inlets outlets are flowing they're not backing up causing damage that sort of thing but yeah we've already done one of them this year already we've gone in rented a mini backhoe gone in mucked out everything loaded it up hauled it to the compost site contained it there on site and then uh yeah move on to the next one so it's kind of one of those things where we addressed that one because that one was the worst of them so that was the first one on the list but otherwise this summer we'll be we'll be knocking correct so we'll uh um go on to the next one next major one and then uh go on and uh by the end of by fall we should have them all pretty much wrapped up so cause right now we don't have a pond policy in place correct no so we don't have anywhere to reference for the residents to go to say here's our policy that we have in place for ponds when they're going in and starting to work on these critical pawns how did you get any grief when you would you did that um communication education that's uh that's key but all the homeowners are awesome we got really good residents here and there so they understood and everything and we went in we made a mess because that slime and muck that we pull all those ponds is not nice to work with by any means so but we went in we restored it reseeded it and that was just last week where we put black dirt in and reseeded everything so but no it there's a lot of a lot of coordinating it takes more time to coordinate and educate and plan you know come up with a planet attack because we do lay plywood down so we less maintenance and all that other stuff on restoring and everything so we get our equipment in but that's key is uh we you can't get big big equipment in there ideally it'd be great to pack the dump truck in there and throw everything in the back of the dump truck but no we dig it out with the mini um pile it up haul it out with our tool cap because it's lighter come over dump it in our little dump truck because our tool can't left that high but it's a process but we get it done so trying to coin a we don't want to just kind of do one of these we kind of want to get everything lined up and kind of hit if because it's not cheap to rent a machine either to do it so if we rent the machine for a week it's you know 1000 bucks for the whole week versus 200 300 bucks for one day so uh trying to just get everything coordinated and if we could rent one for a month that would be even better yet but we don't want to rent one for a month and also it rains half the month so there's a lot of uh we could just buy one but [Laughter] but yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of coordinating and educating but otherwise people understand people know they're there and people know the work needs to get done so a lot of these ponds i think you know what kyle's found what i've found going out too is people are looking and hoping for some maintenance in some of these areas too so i think i wouldn't be surprised or hope that they'd be cooperative because i think people recognize the need in some of these areas again there's going to be some i think that are a little bit more challenging depending on what's in the way to access them but i think most of the conversations i've had anyway people are are looking forward to some of this sort of maintenance all right anything more you need megan are you good i'm good all right any other questions on the uh pond maintenance policy all right snowplowing a nice control policy all right so lastly um in front of you is the snowplowing ice control policy uh so this is something we've been looking at updating for quite some time as you know last year we were gonna try and take uh snow plowing in house but um due to some staff turnover we we did contract it out for one more year but we will be taking it back on this year and so with that we wanted to update our policy uh proactively to reflect uh what what our goals are when we take that back on so uh the policy is in your packet uh or was provided to you ahead of time for review um in there the main uh the main threat or the main changes were to provide more in-depth information on priorities we will be drafting a map with bolton and mink that highlights the different priority routes so then we can put it on our website and people can read themselves our policy and and visualize when we do have a snow event where we will be first second third and then we provide more in-depth information about property damage protocols responsibilities of homeowners and then parking and towing procedures um one thing with that one area that we need to talk to the council about is the current snow ordinance it currently states that vehicles can be parked overnight during the months the major months of where snow falls that's november through april vehicles have to be moved if there's one inch snowfall what we are recommending um to counsel is changing that ordinance to have no parking within a certain time frame throughout those months whether it's through 2 a.m to 6 a.m um because we need to be able to be efficient and get out there and um and plow and we do we have been running into problems with vehicles being on the street but then the ability to tag them because there's always this uh you know is it one inch is it not one inch is somebody going to argue if we do tell them if it's and we have actually had that scenario that we did tell somebody and there was kind of a well how do you know it was one inch and so we're just trying to simplify things uh just the straight hours no there's no battle between um the the how much snow has fallen um so that's staff is recommending that council consider changing the ordinance to that um as far as the parking schedule we will be more proactive uh in educating residents within the first month but then after that we will call the sheriff's department in to identify and tag vehicles that are breaking the code we would then contact the towing company to tow those vehicles and then get them off so we can then get out plowing and remove snow efficiently [Music] so with that i'm i know we discussed this a couple years ago it was recommended from the i think the sheriff's department or town cop was even recommending it but i know at that time i was opposed to it i didn't see a need for it because we hadn't had problems but i think we're getting more and more problems and more and more cars um so we did talk about this at public works and what swayed me to want to do this now is really the weekend stuff because we can't do anything with a car without the sheriff's department coming and tagging them and then towing them so if we on a weekend and we don't have a town cop here it's going to be tough to get someone out here because it's snowing so they're probably at accidents and other things that we will be the last for them to come around so i think it's the way to go now is put a time and just no parking for those months is is what i that's what i would prefer um like 2 a.m to 6 2 6 2 7 i don't know if i'd go much earlier in 2am just because there's businesses in town that are open um you know till 1 o'clock so so my question to that is it'd be for winter like whatever november 1st april 1st it says so would we how how do we enforce that when it's not snowing do we when our officer operating during those hours to tag and tow vehicles that are breaking it because it's not it's not snowing because it's not going to snow every night so we're hoping the aerial cop the area cop will come around when it's not snowing give people some warning let them know hey you can't park you can't park here so that was that would be the direction try to eliminate it so when it does snow they're not there what would be the what's our investment on new signs oh let me see i thought i i must not have put that in there i know i had it in a in one of your memos i think a year ago um what did we say there's a sign for every entrance i think it was 15 signs i don't remember the rate either i think it was 15. you can get that for us yeah i'll include it um if you when when i bring it back to the regular council meeting but um it would be yeah changing out the signs at every entrance to the resident residential streets so other thoughts do we want to do it no parking at all or what are what are some other thoughts from other council members i don't want to do it i i do no i mean like other cities that they just plow around them they pile them in if they if we declared a snow emergency they tag them um they either tow them or they find them yeah so the problem with that again is um we are liable like okay so if a car is even snowed in and they move that street that that extra snow becomes slippery it becomes compacted if somebody gets into an accident because of that that's a liability on our end so we're trying to do our best to clean everything be proactive educate residents the one problem i ran into even this year was we did tell somebody and there was a long conversation about how we could even prove that it was one inch and i feel like that if we start towing people more with this current ordinance i know we will have more people arguing with us about that and maybe even taking this to small claims court because but we don't we don't go out and measure even if we measure at the public works building and it says one inch somebody could argue how do you know it was one inch at my street and so it's and i'm just going off based on this experience that i had this year and again we're trying to be proactive we're trying to educate residents we want to be efficient it just makes the whole process less efficient and safe besides a big piece of it when we only have two we only have two public works employees and we need to get them through and get it done so just no parking during snow at all it would be for certain hours so it's pretty much no overnight parking you can't there's no you yeah you just you can't park overnight at all between the between november 1st and april 1st no street parking so what's the downside of that what if we did do it what's the negative what's the negative well we do utilize street parking year-round at our at my house and i think that there are other people that utilize it now we do follow the and move when it snows can you put any snow like just a trace of snow and then there's really no if it snows you can't park at all like any snow or why is it one inch i think i don't think the depth really matters it's a matter of the plows getting through no i know but i'm saying for the this whole one inch like someone arguing it if you just say if there was any trace of snow i don't know if people cities do that um one thing to keep in mind is we do pre-treatment sometimes too so the ability to get out and and kyle can go i'm just saying it is i've i have not personally lived but i do have family members that live in in cities that you can't park on the streets in the winter and it is challenging more so if you have things going on and to have every everything in the driveway and i'm just i know that was one another resident was concerned about that because she has overnight nursing and they don't have enough room in their driveway to get their homeowners cars out and then the nurses have to park on the street so because they can't leave you know that was that was one of the residents that i do know came to one of the meetings so i just i just we gotta see what the benefit we gotta make sure the benefits some of the newer neighborhoods too that have sidewalks and they only have 30 feet between the garage you can't put two cars between there and then you're covering the sidewalk and they rely on the street parking if they have two teenagers have two cars they've got their cars their garage is full of crap because they've just moved in it's an inconvenience so to try and help our customers they park on the street now most of them do move during the winter they make accommodations but they don't want to get plowed in and have to shovel that to try and get their car out but you know they'll park anywhere but i think if you have this you're still going to run into cars stuck i agree it makes it easier because then there's no controversy is you're not supposed to park here during these months we told your car we gave you a warning you didn't move it we're towing your car there we're not going to go and i get wait i agree and i'd maybe we could look at some if it's snowing at all but you're right they pre-treat i think people if it's not snowing and the roads are clear they're going to park there at 2 am we're not going to go tow them we're not going to tow it if it's not snowing people are going to do it so like you're saying if you're following the rules and doing it it probably won't affect you or one change i mean we're complaint based so i can't imagine if there's no snow we're not going to go around and start plowing unless there's complaints who would complain about it right you know what i mean it so i think when people know when it does snow i don't know it just seems to be cleaner and easier but what do you want i want everybody to be happy but i know that's tough to do but uh from a public works standpoint so we do salt um not necessarily pre-treat pre-treating is when you go up before a storm and you coat the roads and everything else but we do we do salt the roads say we get a half inch so we get a glaze say we get you know if anything if we know chemical is going to work and we have under an inch we'll lay a chemical versus plowing but if we uh know it's it's going to be or it is 30 below and we get an inch we're going to plow it off because it's better to mechanically remove the snow versus try to treat it so uh as far as even just salting and having cars on the road it's kind of a headache just because if you're going through with this big piece of equipment have the plow everything on and you're salting there's a car parked right there your spreader is on your side your the driver's side so then you gotta stop you gotta make sure you don't blast the car because you don't wanna blast the car you gotta go around the car sometimes there's car parked here car parked there you can't fit the big truck through so you gotta back all the way up which is just some of the occurrences that we've had also as far as ticketing and towing um we're the ones that see the car gotta call dispatch hey there's a car this address here it is they'll come out to get that one you know i can tell them to scope the city you know see if there's any other ones sometimes they don't see all of them come to another one gotta stop call the dispatch again have them come out take it i'll you know tag them all that stuff so it's just kind of a i think we're still gonna get that more of a process for us with our current policy there is things we could do we could talk talk to other cities other public works directors and i'll just call dispatch say hey we're going to go out plow at 1am be there at midnight go around find any cars parked in the roads get them to move and then that costs us community service that that's our bank of extra hours that we would get charged correct because it would be after unless yeah if they're providing a city service yes they would they would bill us for that but we do have we did something from november 1st april 1st no parking between 2 and 6 a.m during any snow or ice event the other term in a snow or ice event you know what i mean it could just be flurries and i know but there's been some instances too where uh there's a blizzard we call dispatch to come ticking a toe they're like yeah yeah right you know we're gonna get there until morning and also when blowing snow cars parked in the road after a blowing snow you know that sometimes that's just this work it just is worse as if it were a snowstorm and we got to go out and reach i think no matter what we're still going to have problems even if you say no parking people are going to park on the street and if you're saying that we'll can have this no parking but we're not going to send the county car through every night to start ticketing and warnings on non-snow events to start educating the then i don't you know well then what do we gain yeah wow maybe let's go let's leave it as is for one year you guys haven't done it yet do it for a season and then let's revisit it well we know main street's the worst ash avenue is dreadful it uh well it's just hard we can't clear a curb to curb even if we go around when you say main street why why can't we have certain roads where there's no parking overnight on some of the main roads like why does it have to be every road i think main street has better it doesn't i think main street's unique because it's a state highway so i think they have their own policies and we have our own policies so that's kind of a balance but i know the county you know because like you have your snow emergency routes where you know the city we don't we're not big enough to do a snow emergency but then nobody you can't park on that street at all when that's called and i know that they still have issues and are still pulling towing cars i mean i think no matter if we have a sign that says no parking at all if we're not at least the first year going out every night and saying you can't park there then people are like oh i didn't get a ticket for a month or a warning for a month and i parked out there for the month of november that's just the way things are you got lucky i mean i can speed down highway 7 and never get a ticket and then the day i get one and right i'm just throwing out different i think with like any like with this policy there's obviously going to be inconvenience like there's pros and cons on both sides i understand that um so i think what what our goal is from an operation standpoint is to make you know our job more efficient in in be more proactive again educate but then also get out there and make sure we're doing i guess i'm going and i i know that this can impact residents i understand that um but it's kind of like sometimes you have to make those tough decisions and i'm not saying you have to make one or the other well i'm not saying i'm against it what i'm struggling with is here's another ordinance change we're going to do the likelihood of us actually following through and doing it when it's non-snow event is hard did we give anybody sidewalk tickets this year i mean they're supposed to shovel their sidewalks every i'm just trying to say like again it's another ordinance change or something changing but it's going to take a lot of effort to make it actually actionable and that's by having hiring the county card to come through starting november first and start giving warnings to say we're serious about this would otter even parking help sides of the street specifically you know they're all on one side instead of bobbing and weaving in between like they do in minneapolis you know say you know this is you know you can park on the hot side of the street today and then at least that whole side's clear for them to get through they're not doing the i don't know i'm just playing devil's advocate on this and trying to speak for residents that i agree with you let's let them go through a season like the mayor suggesting and see how it rolls leave it the way it is i think that's one option and i think we need to we just might not come to an agreement on this and and you can bring it to council with your recommendation and if you haven't it'll pass or it won't pass i mean it may just come to that too if we can't we may just not come to an agreement but i i'm fine you know i don't know if it's ideal but i'm fine waiting one more year for you guys to actually do it really documents some of these problems where some of the the pain points are and and doing the calling ahead to see if that works to say hey we're going to be plowing tonight at blah blah blah nice to go curb to curb and not have to go around and what are you doing are you supposed to come back then a day later or not or then we got to monitor every car is there a way we can do like you know through the water bills or something like a courtesy text message that there is you know no parking there's a snow event tonight no parking no parking is there a massive tax system we don't have a texting or a blast what do we do when we miss one i know it's our fault i know some people are taking accountability well right i agree with you people if you don't have room for eight cars you're gonna have to figure it out right i mean yes add a pad on the side clean your garage out we all have three stuff i mean some of that it just it is what it is i mean we can't make every 2 200 people happy either i mean we do what's best for the community right from a safety standpoint and from our employees standpoint and but i'm fine waiting a year i don't know if that's ideal for public works but i certainly don't have a problem with that and then really documenting some of those pinch points what do you think yeah i mean i'm not saying this is a personal thing i just know that when we've had previous discussions about that and i just struggle with we're going to put this in place but how we're going to action on it and what does that look like and will we do it because you know i went on lots of walks this winter and there was lots of sidewalks that i you know it was like this much or just the walking path of people that just kept walking over and i don't know if they ever they never shoveled their sidewalk but it's a staffing reason too like we don't have time to be going around and what did you okay i didn't know that i mean so well i i don't usually i'm not like that i don't call everything only when somebody like says something about something while i but i can't because i'm out there i don't know if it's plowed for them or if it was walking you know i'm just saying that's what we struggle with just because of the how small our staff is is how do you this is something that you know from when i started in america it was fine few and far between but now we've got newer developments and so i'm fine either i'm fine waiting or if if staff meets and and you guys really think the recommendation is to do this and it comes to counsel we'll just have to yeah voting vote on weighing out at that at that time yeah we'll talk so you guys talk it through and see you know what the benefits are what outweighs what and and your recommendation if it comes comes to console yeah there will be some policy that will come to you whether it includes this or not right yeah yeah yeah so okay perfect all right anything else no we are adjourned