Item number three, Commissioner Lynch, what say you? This is where we re recess as a county board and convene as the ditch authority. Second. So, I have a motion to recess as the county board and convene as the ditch authority authority and a second by Fehee. Any discussion hearing? None. All those in favor say I. I those opposed. Motion passes. 3.1 continuation of CD2-3 redetermination of benefits public hearing. Mr. Freshman. Uh Mr. Chair, David Fishman, property and finance director and county ditch administrator. And as you recall at our last um meeting, the uh the ditch authority of uh CD2-3 continued the public hearing. Um, when considering the redetermination of benefits, um, you directed staff to, uh, respond to a a question the ditch authority had about the valuation of, uh, urban property versus, uh, non-urban property in terms of the benefits to the the various types of property owners. And I included the response from the viewers in your packet. Um and then along with that the our ditch attorney uh John Cobb who I believe is online with us um provided uh findings and facts and facts and orders uh for the uh ditch ditch authorities uh consideration. Uh, so at this time, um, I don't know if John has any comments or if the board has any questions, but we're looking for the the board to adopt the, um, findings of facts that were in your, uh, packet provided by Attorney Cole. Oh, there he is. Good morning, Mr. Cole. Can't hear you. We don't uh, we don't hear you yet. Can you hear us, John? Can you give us a thumbs up? Yeah, we still cannot hear you. I think that It It's the best on your computer. It's the best you've ever sounded, but we're going to try to fix that. Good point. Colin, what do you have a suggestion for us? Uh, in the meantime, if we want to know, Mr. Joe Nissan is here uh to speak. Uh, Joe, if you'd like to get up and give a few comments. Hello, my name is Joe Niss. I live at 11255 110th Street. And you know this recent lane we rain we had with three and a half inches. Well, about 12 13 acres of my land flooded. It's still flooded. The water is not down in the ditch yet. And so what that means is I'm going to lose my crop on that land again. You know, we haven't been able to make hay. 20 years ago we was all in corn. We raised corn on that whole works. Now we can't even make hay. And you know, you like to blame the farmers for draining, but look at these towns. Farmers aren't draining any more land now than they did 20 years ago. You go take 284 into Wakonia. There's a couple hundred acres in the last five years developed into houses. Residential property. 6,000 gallons of water an acre with one inch of rain off. So now we got three inches. That means 18,000 per acre. Now, where's water go? The creeks. We don't do nothing to the creeks. Get more water. And when I bought the farm, USDA said I had 49 acres under civvation. Now I have less than 30. Because of the floods, I can't civate it anymore. So, they don't count it as crop land. So you know you know the three farms where I am were a holding pond for all this water. All this water backs up into our property. And you know like I said I got four neighbors that drain water through my head farm. You know and yet because we got the ditch we're going to receive the highest assessment. No, we suffer because of that ditch. I would have a lot less water in that low land if I didn't have that ditch going through my property. And you know, it just don't make sense why we could assess the highest. And the other thing is, are we going, being this is a private ditch, the county anchor touches, are we going to get the same assessment as those people that get their ditch cleaned out? I'd like an answer on that. Mr. Cobb, are you uh able to Can you hear me now? Yes, sir. Perfectly. Very nice. Uh the answer to Mr. Nissan's question, if that's what you're asking me to respond to, Mr. Chair, is Mr. Niss's property, we've dealt with it now um at all of the past uh hearings, including the continuances. And to my understanding, the same acres that he identifies as being regularly drowned out uh were not determined to be benefited by the by the viewers. Um second is if he's drained by a private ditch, that private ditch is his responsibility. Um and he utilizes that private ditch to get his water when it can get there uh to the main channel of ditch 2-3. And so the viewers utilize that uh in their considerations when they determine benefits to those acres that of Mr. Niss that they determined were indeed benefited. Um the advantage if you have a a a public system traversing your land is also a detriment. Uh the advantage is is that you have direct access to that channel. The detriment is that the challen the channel is in fact an incumbrance on your property and it also facilitates the movement of water through your property which as Mr. Niss understands sometimes can exceed the capacity of the ditch bank um and flow onto that property. So um in the end people's benefits are determined by the viewers based on a series of different factors and considerations including their proximity to the ditch, their elevation relative to the ditch, the type of land use they're putting their land to amount of ins impervious surface soil type slopes all of that information. Um so I I guess from the as a direct answer to Mr. Niss, Mr. Nissan pays according to his percentage of total benefits which is a function of the viewer's recommended determination. Other land owners are going to pay based on a percentage of their total bene the percent of total benefits that they have assigned to their property based on the viewing. And so the real question for the board is does it have confidence that the viewers treated similarly situated properties in a similar way when applying all of their considerations and recommending a benefits value for those properties. So, Mr. Niss, uh, Mr. Co is saying that you are currently not being assessed on the property that you're talking about that's been underwater. So, but are are we paying because we got the private ditch? Are we paying for the county ditches to get clean under the impression the county ditches are going to get cleaned? Our ditch is not because it's private. So, are we getting assessed the same money they are? Mr. Cole, you're being assessed in the same way that they are, Mr. Niss. Um, but your percentage may or may not be different. Again, I'd have to look in comparison your property to another specific property on the system, but it's not like they're getting their ditch cleaned out and you're not getting your ditch cleaned out. Ditch 2-3 provides an outlet for your private ditch. So when ditch 2-3 gets cleaned out, your outlet gets improved. And that's I mean that that's kind of how drainage works. You don't have every property that's benefited right next to the ditch system, whether it's tile or open ditch. There are other lateral uh tiles and conveyances that are often private that are utilized to move water to the system, but ultimately the system has to carry that water and there's an expense associated with that and those expenses are recovered by assessment to property. And so you're being assessed in exactly the same way as every other land owner based on the total percent of total benefits that you have assigned to your property as recommended by the viewers. So Mr. Cob, he's saying that this ditch is failing for him. Is that do we know uh if that's a are we cleaning this ditch out soon? Do we know? Not a question I can answer, Mr. Chair. I I don't believe that ditch 2-3 has any immediate plans for any major reconstruction or repair um aside from the routine operations that the staff's been conducting to remove obvious obstructions to the flow of the system. So, in other words, I'm going to get assessed the same. Our ditch isn't going to get cleaned. The other ditches are going to get clean and I'm going to assess as much as they are. Is that right? In a general sense, Mr. Niss, you are correct. I don't think in a specific sense you are. When you say you're going to get assessed the same, that implies that if they pay $1,000, you're going to pay $1,000. And it may well be quite a bit different than that. You may actually pay more in some instances than some of your neighbors that are in closer proximity to the ditch and you may pay less than others. I just don't know without doing a sightby-sight comparison. But regardless of whether you're on the drainage system and it's going to be maintained by the by the drainage authority or whether you use a private system to get your water to the public system, you're going to get assessed for benefits. So I I don't know how to answer your question because the way you phrase it, the answer is no. But in a general sense, the answer is yes. You are going to be assessed for maintenance of the channel of ditch 2-3 or for any other costs that might be associated with ditch 2-3, even though that ditch 2-3 does not touch or traverse your property directly. So, do you think that's fair? I don't think that's fair. When when they're not touching our ditch, I'm go get assessed the same. And the other thing is where is this money going? has assessed. If I'm getting assessed for my ditch, then should I get my ditch cleaned out, too? Well, are you talking about your private ditch? No, it's not a private. This ditch connects from three towns. Carver Creek does three towns and five lakes. And yet, it's a private ditch. And the county says they had no authority over it. A ditch to me that's that huge connects to that many towns. The county should have to ablide by it. Look at that other Din trick. Don't connect to hardly nothing. And that's a county ditch. Well, Mr. Freshman. Um, if a if a property owner has a problem with how a ditch is functioning, what would be the process for that person to say they want money spent? The assessment dollars go to cleaning out and managing the ditch, but they're not touching our ditch, right? So, how how does a how does a land owner uh get about uh somebody from the county to figure that out? Excuse me, Joe. Take my chair workman. Um it's clear to me when it's a public ditch that this benefit the benefiting properties are going to pay for those uh any any cleanouts or any uh repairs or anything that's being done using this new uh redetermination of benefits. Uh Joe's question about this ditch if it is a private ditch or um that connects the townships. I I have to rely on Mike maybe to help explain what that is so we know what it is. But if it's not part of the public ditch, then it's not covered in in these proceedings. But I think he's saying that that the creek or the ditch is not functioning for him. Isn't that what you're saying? Well, it can't it can't handle all this water. We keep adding more and more water to it and we don't do nothing. Look at how much water we're alone is added to it. You know, like the last five years, it's got to be 200 acres on on 284 alone. And now they're they're okay for development of another 300 homes. They're laying that out. All that's got to go water's got to go in that ditch. How can that ditch survive all this? It can't. That's right. And that's why we're load farms are low. It backs up. We obviously lose lot of land. The ditch from that three inches never went back in the banks. It's still over now. We get more rain. All that land is lost. We got to pay taxes on it. We got to do all this and we can't use it. And now we're going to get assessed for it. Besides, it's bad enough paying taxes and not being able to use it. But then when you get an assess for land for water, you can't use there's something wrong with the system. Uh good morning, Mr. Chair, ditch board. Mike Wanis. I'm the ditch inspector for the county. Um I'm also the soil and water conservation district manager. Um, we saw at the last public hearing, Mr. Niss's property was looked at again by the viewers. Um, I just wanted to point out so it's clear to everybody that um, his property is being assessed as a class 4, which is the lowest classification for the assessment. So because his water ends up in the public ditch system, he does get assessed, but it's at the lowest classification. So I just wanted to point that out. And then his ditch is also part of Carver Creek that goes through his property. So if he wanted to clean it out, he could do that. He may have to consult with the DNR about getting a DNR permit, things like that. But it's not part of our public ditch system. So we can't spend public ditch funds cleaning that out. But if Mr. Nissan wanted to clean it on his own, he could do that. Um you just need to check with the DNR to make sure any permits would be required through the DNR. And if we could, um, Mike, you I remember from last meeting, um, Joe mentioned that he thought it was like 20 acres that were not benefited, but it was actually like 23 or 24 that are not benefited. So, he's not charged for those low acres. I I think that was one of the explanations. Um, when I look at my map that I see, um, some of the areas that are not benefited are the wooded areas and then the areas that are not being farmed or not being cropped for hay. But it does look to me as though like the areas that are being cropped for hay are part of that class 4 benefited area. Um, but again, it's at the lowest classification, so it's at the lowest dollar amount. Thank you, Commissioner. Mr. Mr. Chair, I think there's two issues and I think the one we're here today is to figure out did the uh viewers do their job and I think they did and I think John's helped us get there and and it might not be fun to pay it or not pay it. That's issue number one. I think issue two and Joe you seem like an honest guy. We've seen you in the boardroom a few times is what do you do when 40% of your property becomes unusable because of water? It could be there not cleaned out. Could be an undersized pipe. It could be all kinds of stuff. And I'm not the expert when it comes to that. Last meeting I asked, "What do we do for a guy like Joe that lost 40% of his land because of water? Is that a ditch issue? Is that a Joe issue? Is that the neighbors issue?" I don't think we've gotten that answer, but I don't know that this is the forum for that. I think today we're trying to figure out did the did the viewers do their job and do we assess properly? And and I'm confident in that. Um, but part two of that, I'd like to get you an answer, Joe. Is it is it your responsibility? Is it the ditch authority? Can we have send somebody out to see if if we savage a pipe differently or spent some money to flow that water if you got your 20 acres back? I don't have that answer today. So, those are just some of my thoughts. Uh, good thoughts. Um, and I thought that Mr. Wanis maybe kind of answered that. Um, they and the ne the next phase would be for him to figure out how to properly drain, but that's not our job. And you're saying it's going into a creek. That's not our job. Or a private ditch. That's not our job. So, this is just the multiplier, the math for when something does get done on that ditch, um the land owners are benefiting land owners are charged accordingly. Right. Anybody else have a comment? Um, this isn't a public hearing, right? It is not. Okay. Well, seeing no other other comments, I guess we're ready for a motion. I can read one. Consider adopting the attached findings and order adopting the redetermination of benefits benefits for CD2-3. I see a I guess that's the motion. So moved. I have a motion by Anderson. Second and a second by Lynch. Further discussion. Mr. Chair, I'll be abstaining from the vote. I'm a current land owner in ditch CD- 2-3. Commissioner Fa is abstaining. Seeing no other discussion, all those in favor of the motion say I. I. I. Those opposed. Motion passes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Cole. Move that we recess as the regional rail authority and recommitt as county board. No, ditch authority. The regional. It's hard to keep track. This is what we authority. I take that friendly uh uh adjustment. Yes. So, Commissioner Rutderman has moved to recess as the county ditch authority and reconvene as the county board. Do I have a second? Second. And a second by Commissioner Feahhee. Any discussion on that motion? Hearing none. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed? Motion passes. We're back as the county board. Item 5.0. William Mueller Gravel. Good morning, Mr. Chair and board members. I'm Jason Melky, land management department manager. This particular item is an intramus permit application for aggregate mining. uh was submitted by Willie Mueller and Sons and it is for property located in section 18 of Camden Township. Property is owned by John and Carol Domin. On May 20th, the county planning commission voted and recommended approval of the interim use permit application. uh the planning commission resolution, site map and maps, site plans that were excuse me utilized as part of the planning commission public hearing have been provided to you uh in hard copy and we also ultimately have them on the screen here as well for questions um after I'm done giving this a little presentation here. The request would be to utilize the property for sand mining activity. The entire property consists of approximately 100 acres which of the property 22 acres would be used as part of the so-called operational area and that would be for excavating uh the excavation processing and restoration of the site. It is located along the westerly portion of the property typically in mostly high ground and currently under um crop production. It is estimated that about 250,000 cubic yards of material would be removed over a 10 to 17year period and the material would be used specifically for local public and private construction projects which um are specific to William Mueller and Suns. This is not a site that would be an open contract subcontractors coming in to take material out. It is specific to William Mueller and Suns and projects that they bid on and are um successful in being rewarded with with the project. The mining activity would proceed from the north of the site and make its way to the south. And they had identified this as being done in kind of two phases. One is the north end which is considered flood plane. Um, mining activity is allowed in flood plane area as long as they're not taking fill material and placing it in flood plane which ultimately would increase the flood stage which they're not um providing as part of the project or anticipating doing. Once the site is reclaimed, it would be converted back to egg production land. And that is based on an agreement between Muellers and the property owner. The property owner would like it to be converted back to crop production land when it's all said and done. Part of our zoning and and the regulation oversight, I guess, is there are multiple jurisdictions that have a have a hand in this this project. Um it ranges from land manage county land management as the land use authority and allowing for this intram use permit to be applied for based on the zoning code regulations. We have the DNR DNR regulations for shoreland and flood plane come into play. Um and the DNR actually has expressed support of this project. They can mine in the flood plane area like I indicated as long as they're not increasing the flood stage when it's all said and done and they go through the proper permitting. This is in the Miniha Creek water, excuse me, the Buffalo Creek wershed district. Um there are two creeks that cut through this property. You have a small portion of the Buffalo Creek that comes from the west and drains into the south fork crow river which extends through the entire property. You have the Carver Soil and Water Conservation District which because this property is taxed as a Buffalo Creek watershed district property, they're the authority for storm water. However, Buffalo Creek does not have any um does not require a permit to be applied for for mining activity and that we received confirmation via an email from their uh district staff soil and water. Then based on this being in Carver County, we would ask that Carver County uh soil and water help with the erosion sediment control review for the project and the monitoring of that. And the Carver County Watershed Management Organization, the WMO, still is actively involved because they're helping with the uh regulations as far as the Wetland Conservation Act goes. Again, this property is in the egg zoning district which triggers the intram use permit. It is in the shoreland overlay district of protected water courses, both the Buffalo Creek and the Curl River. And it is in the uh flood plane overlay district. As you can see on this map, everything that's outlined in the light blue is the general flood plane 100year or they call it the 1% chance of flooding. And the dark blue is the flood way which is the 2% chance. And and none of the activity they're proposing is taking place in flood way but it is showing uh utilizing the northerly portion of this 22 acres as part of the flood plane and mining. Hours of operation would be uh are being proposed Monday through Friday 6:00 am to 7 pm. Saturdays 7:00 am to noon and no work on Sundays or federally observed holidays except if there is an emergency situation that they have to get sand material. They would have approximately five employees during active mining periods and the permit is nontransferable and would terminate upon you know material being removed pit exhausted and or an ownership change. But it would still remain open until all restoration takes place and they're in compliance with the appropriate regulations. The hall route to the site would be via uh 84th Street and all hall truck traffic would go west onto 165th Street which happens to be in Burgon Township in Mloud County. So, this property is on the westerly portion of the county, the Carver Mloud line, and the applicant did go out attend a Burgeon Township meeting and got their support and they actually have an agreement in place to make sure that they're applying dust control at an intersection. This is a two-mile stretch heading west to get to the main main road south of Lester Prairie. Um the Camden Town Board recommended approval, but they did have some specific requirements that uh William Uler and Sons is to handle road maintenance, dust control, grading, and graveling for the portion of 84th Street that they need to utilize to access the site, which is a very short segment. Um and then once they get into Mloud County, then they need to follow the Virgin Township agreement. The hall route is prohibited on Camden Township roads as well and that was part of the conditions uh except where as necessary and there are um a bunch of conditions as expected with any mining activity and one of them identifies complying with the with the local road authority which in this case would be um Camden Township and Burgon Township and making sure they're complying with the appropriate conditions. and and um anticipated responsibilities. As part of the public hearing uh process, we did have some neighbors that did express concerns about noise, dust, wildlife, Crow River impacts, and property values. and the planning commission highlighted some of the activities that would be taking place to minimize that such as burns being utilized. Uh the recess floor in the mining area so equipment would potentially sit lower once they get the site opened up. Um they also had limited uh hours of operation and all that they felt would would be um would be a good means for reducing visibility and and noise. And the applicant actually went a little further and emphasized responsible operational practices and restoration efforts. And some of those mitigation measures would be making sure that the truck traffic um takes a circular route in the pit to reduce backup, therefore backup noise. Uh white noise, backup alarms on equipment that's being utilized in the gravel mining, sand mining area. Doing calcium chloride on internal hall roads. constructing of BMS for stockpile soil soil which would help reduce noise and the visual impacts. And the BMS the top soil material is all getting pushed um pushed off and being located in the green areas that are identified along the westerly the westerly portion of the property and south portion of the property. There is minimal area that they are identifying in the flood plane area and that is no more than a thousand cubic yards. That is the maximum that they would be able to stockpile in the flood plane area. And then obviously they would be doing potentially some seasonal dewatering in the flood plane area to make sure they're getting the material that they need. And that that process is kind of a to be determined. They're not exactly sure how much material is there. Um, but if they do decide to go and get what they can, they would have to go through the DNR to get a a dewatering permit, which then would trigger some additional review from the local WMO from the from the wetland conservation act side and and maybe some setback standards need to be modified and [Music] increased. Again, the reclamation of the site would be done in phases with disturbed areas returning to egg use. There might be the potential to keep some of the area on the north end, maybe as open wetland area when it's all said and done. But again, that would have to be an agreement between the property owner and in this case, William Mueller and Sons as as the operator. Uh the permit does include financial shity and insurance provisions to ensure environmental and performance compliance and it's uh $10,000 an acre for open mining which consists of mining the staging and the restoration that they have open at a time. So, as they move along um and they're doing restoration maybe at the same time, they keep it at that $10,000 an acre. Once they ex ex u expand and have more open area, that would trigger maybe a new shity to take into account the open area that they have under the uh open mining activity. I do know that we have a few neighbors in attendance today and that would like to speak to this. Um, however, I am looking for the board to make a motion to adopt findings of fact and issue order PZ 20250012 for the issuance of an interim use permit. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I would uh take any questions you might have. Any questions from the board? Seeing none, maybe the neighbors want to talk. Good morning. Good morning. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Um I'm Cheryl Blazdall. I'm living at 840 um Ill Avenue in Camden Township. I'm also representing my neighbors who um are working most of them today and cannot make the meeting. That includes Dogs, Martinsson's, and Hansen's. We're all on the west side. Uh, sorry, we're all on the east. Um, the pit would be to the west of all of our properties on the other side of the Crow River. So, um, of those four, um, you're considering approval of an interim use permit to allow sand and gravel mining, including crushing and screening of aggregate materials on the property to the west of my property line. This would locate directly west in view of my property and on the west side of the Crow River. I'm hoping you decline it. Um, and here are the reasons following. I moved to this property 10 years ago after living closer to the city. I moved knowing that this is where I would retire and be my last home. I looked for property that was away from the city activities and quiet. Um, right now my property I hear minor vehicle noise in the morning during rush hour for about an hour. Um, but mostly I hear the sound of the birds singing and the river water running over the rocks. A lot of people in Minnesota retreat to the north woods for peace and quiet, but and like many of you probably did last weekend, this is my retreat. There is currently a smaller gravel pit owned by Litzos just across the county line in Leicester Prairie that's 2 miles away from me. This would be about 2 miles away from the new pit um site. I'm able to hear the activities of the current pit, but it is smaller and it has been established for more than 10 years that I have lived at my current address. The sounds are not constant or on daily basis, but when they are crushing for sure or running dump trucks through for a period of time, it can be heard by myself and even the neighbors that even are east of me. And I'm on 42 acres. Um the Muller Prit would bring a more extreme noise about 150 truckloads of material going in and out in a weekly basis versus right now Litz are, you know, maybe 10. I'm not sure what their count is, but not so many. Um, the rock crushing is um extreme noise. There'd be the beeping of the backup bells of the dump of the trucks, the dump trucks. Uh, the loaders. Um, the generators will be running all day long. And, um, the elevators will move the rock and gravel and the and, uh, the slamming of the dump truck gates would happen, too. I'm retired. I'm home all day long with In and Out. my quiet would now be invaded by listening to this ongoing noise that I was trying to get away from. I've also developed a lung condition in my older age that makes me very vulnerable to poor air quality such as these last three days. The gravel pit and its dust from the processing of the gravel and its movement would bring an increase of dust and exhaust fumes that would impact my quality of life for sure. Um, part of my daily activities, um, living on the Crow River, which I wanted to do, is I'm I photograph. I'm a photographer. I do sell some stock pictures online. Um, and that's my my side hustle besides my social security. And I feared that with this activity, with the gravel pit, it's going to chase a lot of what I'm um photographing away. I worry that the um the noise of the pit and the change of the vegetation will make all of these animals, you know, uh relocate. In regards to scientific effects, I'm a former teacher. I'm very into research and looking things up. Um, so I did my due diligence and I surveyed things and I found that a 2014 survey by Anthony Ladson and Dean Jud, the authors had said their survey showed that gravel pits near rivers lead to riverbed degradation, bank erosion, channel widening, infrastructure damage or destruction, habitat damage, degradation of water quality. I live on a very nice scurve. I have a beautiful I moved my house way back to the very end right so I could see the crow river which would be then directly across from the pit would be up higher when the tree league aren't leafed out I'll definitely see that but it it is the noise and u martinsson's are next to me and Hansen's are there and dogs are right um to the south of me that um also based on the information I received I conferred with a lawyer about that has rural land experience and litigation. Can't use the name, but uh um there is a legal precedent that he stated called quiet enjoyment that protects landowners from unreasonable use of property that causes above normal daily noise and can hold the landowner and the user accountable. So there is a legal precedent for that. Also along with the other four adjoining neighbors, dogs, Martinsson's, Hansen's myself, we never received notification um of the application of the gravel pit permit sent to the town Camden Township. This would legally should have been done and therefore alone without that notification um lawyer suggests the process should start back to the township level that we should have been notified so that the um people that are affected um should have a say in this. Along with that, um, if the permit's approved, we as neighbors would consider hiring an attorney to seek claim for a property not continuing to go up in value. Not that it will drop, but will it go up at the same value as surrounding property? And I've been given information that this would be a legal something that we could legally pursue um with litigation and expect the county to provide compensation if that if our land value does not go up like everybody else's in the area because of the noise and because of having this gravel pit there. If you do allow it, we would ask for signage be put up for no Jake breaking, no backing up, no gate slamming, ensuring the continuous forward flow for the trucks to move in and out of the pit. Change the operational hours. I mean, right now it's 6:00 to 7:00. Come on. And change the operational hours to Monday through Friday from 7 to 5, Saturdays from 7 to noon. And one of my biggest concerns because I'm there and when they're crushing gravel it is loud and nobody can say anything different to that. I would ask that it would be like and I know they don't do it every day. I'm hoping they could do it in two months two times a month from 8 to 4. Um, I would like to remind the panel that the vision statement on the planning committee, as stated on the website, is where the future embraces the past in keeping Carver County a great place to live, work, and play for a lifetime. I feel that when I attended the planning commission in approving this permit at the last meeting, they were not living up to their vision of making Carver County a great place to live and ask you to reconsider not approving the permit. Um W. Mueller has other gravel pits in the area. One that's just over the border uh over the the line in Lester Prairie. Um they could they could move. They could find other gravel areas. Um if they need to expand, you know, go to a different location. I cannot move. I'm at the end of my financial ability to do something like that. This is where I'm going to have to stay along with other neighbors and so I don't have that opportunity. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Anybody else? Give that to Name's Bill Divine. I'm chair for the Camden Township. When a meeting is when at our meetings, we have we were told that William Mueller wanted to address at our meeting. We're not able to let the people of the township know what the meeting is going to be about or what they're asking for. And then I think since this whole thing started, I received that 70some page packet from the county and I looked over it and a few of the things that well one in particular wasn't addressed to us and that was the times. 6:00 in the morning till 7 at night is ridiculous, especially if you're retired. And you don't need the noise. And we suggested that it go from 7 to 5. And I think we had an agreement with the Mueller Pit people that that would be they were okay with that. if they want to, you know, come up and then go to that say anything. We can we can ask them if they want to address that when you're finished. Or now, good morning, chairman and county commissioners. My name is Kirsten Paulie. I am a geologist and civil engineer with Sunday Engineering and uh I been working with William Mueller and Suns on preparing the mine plan and permit application for the uh mine site that you're that's being discussed today. Um, and I just want to um reiterate that yes, there is an agreement by William Mueller um and the township where they have agreed to limit the hours of operation that had been requested which were 6 to 7 to include um to reduce them to 7 to 5 Monday through Friday for production which would which means um production means operation of any crushing or screening equipment and actual extraction activities. Um but then maintain hauling till from 700 a.m. till 7:00 p.m. in case there's some jobs that require some um extended hauling hours in the evening. And that is I believe the hours that were discussed with the township that they agreed to. Um I also um I'll I'll let the uh town board continue, but I have some additional comments that I can make to respond to the um other public comments as well. Oh, right now. Yeah. Okay. And Miss Polly, you aren't you related to a very famous legislator from Eden Prairie? I am. Yes. Yeah. And I'm sure she sends her regards to Utah. So um so the um there was some question about noise and um and I I just want to reiterate that noise is regulated under the state Minnesota Pollution Control Agency rules and the site will operate under a Minnesota Pollution Control Agency permit for air emissions as well as noise. It also operates under a Minnesota pollution control agency NPDS permit for storm water and water quality. So um you know in addition to the WMO with regulations regarding erosion and sediment control the this site will be regulated as well by the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency and storm water and erosion control and sedimentation are all covered under the MPDS permit that is required. Um the noise uh it follows state state noise rules and the there's been a number of measures that have been designed into this site to um ensure that the site is operating in accordance with those noise rules. The noise regulations are strictest if there is an area with residential land use in the surrounding um in the surrounding lands and so it will be subject to the most stringent noise standards. Um the noise standards do vary between daytime and nighttime to ensure that nighttime levels are um peaceful and uh in accordance with residential land uses in the surrounding area. Um, the other thing to keep in mind is that this site is is relatively is relatively small compared to many mining operations. It's it's a a total of only 22 acres with 15,000 to 25,000 cubic yards of material a year to be removed. Um, this means that there's not going to be processing on a daily basis, but typically the processing equipment will be brought in. It'll be operated for a period of a few weeks to produce stockpiles of aggregate material and then that portable processing equipment will be um removed from the site and that material will be used as needed to supply these jobs. There was a comment that that this this site doesn't belong here. There's plenty of other locations that could be utilized, but the fact of the matter is is that aggregate is a valuable resource and within the county, it is not located everywhere. You can't just operate um or open a mine where it um it would be in an industrial zoned area. It there's a reason that it's allowed in egg areas because you have to open a mine where there's actually resource available. And in Carver County, these are often outwash deposits that are located adjacent to streams and rivers. Um, there are many examples throughout the state where mining occurs adjacent to uh waterways and as Jason Milky indicated, the DNR um allows mining in flood planes. Uh, and there have been many instances where there are bald eagles that build nests adjacent to the mining site. There's not uh activity that's that's very different from the agricultural activity that's ongoing at this site right now that would cause um a negative impact to to wildlife. There's often um it's just small areas that are mined at any given time. And so, um, there's no evidence to suggest that there would be, uh, um, impact to wildlife as well. Um, with that, I have I could answer any questions that you may have specifically, but, um, I'm happy to be Okay. Thank you very much. I have a question for her. Okay. So, I understand about changing the hours. Let's uh, let's get you on the microphone there. I understand about changing the hours, which I totally appreciate that. My real concern is crushing. I hear litos crushing when they're doing it. It's extreme. And that's two miles away. This is right across the river from me, you know. So the the pit itself will be what? Half a mile maybe. So she just said two solid weeks, you know. I'm asking if it could be very I mean is it going to be two solid weeks and it stops? Um can be very because it's it's very loud. It's like it's very loud. I don't know how else to put it. Um, and it could that somehow be adjusted for the amount of time that the crushing is actually the processing of it be spaced out and definitely not starting at 7 in the morning trying to do that one a little bit late when they're doing the actual crushing. Now, the the trucks are going to be coming and going. Um, so that's still always there, but that crushing is is a very loud noise. Um, just go to a pit and listen to it. Um, it's there. Can that not be two solid weeks and definitely start like go eight to four? Question, Miss Polly. Um, so in order to produce the 25 the 15,000 to 25,000 cubic yards of material that is anticipated to be um produced at this site every year, the portable equipment would come in um anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks and it would operate for that 4 to 6 week period um not two weeks. So if that wasn't clear, I want to make sure that that's clear. And the 7 to five production hours is what's anticipated to to be required in order to produce that much material. And in terms of the the noise that crushing still has to meet the state noise standard. So it may be considered loud to some receptors, but the the noise uh reduction measures that have been implemented um for this site, which is recessing that crushing um spread, putting it adjacent to the active face to help absorb some of that noise energy. uh along with um other measures that relate to the truck traffic and internal circulation of noise are all put in place to make sure that the site can meet noise standards. If during the operation um the noise is is um determined to be unacceptable to a neighbor, they have the right to contact the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency and request that they investigate and determine whether or not they're actually complying with the noise standard. So, there's that additional um potential for u monitoring and regulating that through the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency. like a couple more. Will signage be put up so that there's um no backing up, no beeping, and then the slamming of the tailgates of the dump trucks because I know often a lot of pits will put the signage up for no slamming of the the the tailgates and um the backing up. I know you're trying you say that there's a the loader will have a white noise. I haven't heard that, so I'm not aware of that one. But, uh, can signage actually be put ups to make sure that any of your outside contractors, any other trucks will not be backing up or slamming because that's Yeah, that's very sudden. And that happened. Well, and I know while we're waiting here, um, this board has the great advantage of the chairman having worked on top of a landfill of all things for just two years. Um, but so if you can imagine a gravel pit, uh, being your neighbor, uh, try a landfill. And uh I I don't think backup beepers can be removed from large trucks or packers or or anything else. Um that's sort of the irony of it. The feds say they got to be on there. And so but isn't this mostly stuff going out? I'm not sure that the gates on dump trucks uh should be a problem, but yeah. So the majority of loads are going to be exiting. There may be some material imported for reclamation. Um and you you are correct. The backup noise alarms are required by in this case it's MSHA mining safety and health administration. The um some of the changes in technology over the last 20 years have been the introduction and um approval by MSHA for these white noise or broadband backup alarms. And what happens is they have a a a different frequency and wavelength. And so as that backup alarm is activated, if you are within a certain number of feet of the equipment, you can hear it. It's audible. But as that those sound waves extend from the source of the equipment, they they dissipate more quickly because of their frequency. And so 300 ft from the back of the equipment, you can't hear it. Um, and those can be used on the the loaders. Most often in mining operations, the equipment that's operating on a day-to-day basis that have has to back up will have those broadband backup alarms on it. And so you won't hear that beeping. um the trucks that come in may not have this newer technology and that's why the internal um access road to get to the stock piles to load up are laid out to provide a circular pattern to prevent backing up and and that has to do with not just noise but just safety as well. And so in in operations that are now being um developed, you see this circular pattern. So you don't get the backing up. Now if there is a load coming in that has um material that is maybe going to be uh dumped uh for reclamation or whatever. There are some instances where you do get backup um and a backup alarm, but the um the percentage of those vehicles is extremely low. Wouldn't most of those be side dumps. Uh Tim Mueller with William Mueller and Sons. Um just to point out to Jason Milky's comments in in the uh address, um this site will be used for our company. We're not going to be having other companies come in there. And all of our trucks are all in dumps. We do not run any side dumps at all. Thank you. Hopefully while this pit is going that everything will be monitored, you know, obviously by the county and the township board and I while we we toured the area last Thursday. It is pretty serene of an area. I went to her house and and seen the her location and everything. Is there a way that Burm other than on the west side I I don't know how much it would help if any of it can be put on the east side cuz you can see right from her house right to where the pit is going to be. I know everything's going to get lower, but is there any way to put any of that material on the east side? And hopefully when this whole mess is done with, that it will be just as serene now or then as it is is right now. Mr. Chair, Mr. Ramsey, can we have uh Jason clarify uh the township process and then does the board have the option of sending this back to the township or would we need an extension of a time frame for continuing this discussion? Yeah, board members part of our our uh public hearing process. So, the public hearing takes place at the planning commission. Uh the public hearing doesn't take place at the townships. The townships have given the land use authority to the county. All all count all townships pursuant to the comprehensive plan. They have a specific chapter and the land use authority is the county for all 10 townships in in Carver. Um we do as part of our application process ask the applicant to attend a township meeting to get a recommendation. as part of that recommendation. In most cases, it's is the use is the township supportive of the use on a gravel road. That's a lot of in a lot of cases. Um, a lot of our uses, if it's on a they need to be on a hard surface, paved concrete road, if it is on a gravel road, getting the township to sign off saying that they support the request is number one. So, the township does not conduct the public hearing. the township's process and their meeting schedule is completely the township's process. It has nothing to do with the county. We just as part of our application process asked to get that recommendation form back from the applicant after they went to the township meeting so we can we can include the township's recommendation in our staff report. And that's where I pointed out that both both townships in this case were supportive of the request with specific standards put into place with maintenance responsibilities of the appropriate from the appropriate road authority for the jurisdiction that that it applied. Um, second part of the question, if the township, if this item were to go back to the township, um, again, it's for discussion purposes. Um, our public hearing process took place at the planning commission. Planning commission recommended approval. Um, so we're we're past going back to the planning commission to get a recommendation. uh we would have to do a new notification that there's going to be an item coming back to planning commission if that were the case which then it's a whole new application that needs to be submitted. Um I think at this point it's taking in the feedback taking the feedback and the board ultimately modifying some conditions. You as the board have the ability to amend and modify conditions that were recommended to you by the planning commission and the township. Um but but actually continuing and going back to the the township there is there is no public hearing at this point in time. And then one quick follow up if I could. So are we running into a 60-day requirement or if the board wanted to extend this the county board? Yeah. So we actually when when Tim submitted the application, he submitted it early and then there was a process to determine wetlands and things like that. So we did have them and get the notification for the 60-day law. And I think um I think the notification we can do an additional 60 days which pushes this out. So there there would happen to be time if the board decided to to continue this for some reason. I'm just gonna ask you. So when I talked about when I talked to the county hydraologist, he said there's two more permits that have to happen within the next 45 days so that nothing can really happen for 45 days. Is that what you just said? Okay, Mr. Milky. So yes, there are as part of the conditions and we didn't get to the point of going through all the conditions. If you want me to, I can, but it's not only the county board's approval within there. There are there are requirements to comply with the WMO, in this case, the wetland conservation act. So there is a permitting process, a review and approval that needs to take place before they would even be able to operate from the site. Um, as is the case with a lot of our permits and activities, the conditions need to be met in order for the applicant to to operate. And you need to get the approval to make sure you know that you can do the next two steps, which is get the WMO's approval for wetlands. Um, have soil and water review the plan again to make sure that erosion sediment control is being provided and it's sufficient for what's being done. Um, and we won't record the actual permit with the recorder's office until that's met. So, that's kind of our ability to hang on to it, saying, "Hey, we have this permit that's right here, but you have to make sure you get this other stuff done before you're going to actually begin." I'm not exactly sure how long that review process takes for the wetland side of things. Um, but I know that they have been actively involved with on-site review with a tap panel to determine wetland boundaries. And now there's the review time after that to determine does everybody agree with the edge of the wetland and for them to be able to move forward. Perhaps the forte of Miss Paulie would know that. Yes. So, um, as Jason indicated, there is additional permitting that is required once the IUP is issued and the the wetland, um, process is, uh, lengthy and it has been started. There's been a field delineation. Uh, there's been an application to the WO to approve the wetland type and boundaries. There has been a field meeting with the um TP panel which consists of the WMO um uh representatives from the Department of Natural Resources and there's been a review of the wetland delineation report with some minor uh revisions to the texts that have been um requested. there is the potential to request a uh dimminimous impact to a small wetland located in the ditch along um the township road. Uh and that application will be submitted and that would allow then the um the proposed location of the access road to be constructed. Um all of these um all this process is in motion. Um and until that is um until those permits are issued by the WMO on the wetlands and the W conservation act um regulations are followed, mining could not occur on this site. So there's certain setback standards from wetlands that are dependent on getting those approvals. Um and so that is part of the process. Thank you, Mr. Milky. Mr. Chair, just to piggy back and go back to uh administrator Hemsy's comment about the 60-day. So, we did send a 60-day letter to Muellers on May May 1st and the written notice 60day 120day reflects a July 19th, 2019 uh excuse me, July 19th, 2025 county board deadline for decision. Okay. Seeing uh no other comment from the neighbor. Wh Good morning. Good morning. Um my name is Vanessa Martinson. Sorry my husband couldn't be here. We are the little dot that is right directly um east of the property. Um perfect. Thank you. Um we're at 7800 Yansy Avenue and so um myself and our neighbors just to the north of us, the Hennand um as well as Cheryl have contacted a lawyer to just figure out what our rights are. We had 10 days notice um which is what we were told is legal. Um and that's the first we heard of it. after that the last meeting we were just have a few days with a holiday in there and so contacting a lawyer and finding out what our rights are as homeowners um has just been a little bit slow and quick trying to get to the place where we're just trying to go okay I have kids that are in the years of getting married literally worked on our land and property to like have our our kids' weddings there hopefully in the future um it seems like Tim is a very understanding guy and hopefully we can have a conversation when those dates come available um that we can have maybe quieter hours just for at least the wedding ceremonies. Um but we're to the place where this is 10 to 17 years of our lives that this is going to affect. We're here for one meeting or two meetings at the county and I don't know what we can do as homeowners to hold accountability for any actions that that kind of happen. When when I contacted the county, the county told me to contact the township. The township said they don't have any rights. They said call contact the county. And this is just in the last less than 20 days. And so I have a full-time job actually too. And um my husband works and everything and we don't want to I I think it's great that I I support other businesses and all of that. It's just when we look at where they're going to put the burhams, it's the opposite side of where it's going to affect our houses. So my hi my house is on to the right side to on the part of the river which is the east side which they can't put burhams in those locations because it's in the flood plane. The flood plane this is my biggest concern and I talked to the watershed district is our wells. So, what I was told um by Carver County was that when they dig and the water will go under because one of my concerns was, well, is it just going to be a murky mosquito haven? Um because I want to go outside still as much as possible. We already spray because we're in a wet area. When they say they're going to take over the ne next 10 years or so, 250 cubic yards, I want to understand what that meant. That means a football stadium. That means 76 Olympic swimming pools that they're going to potentially take out of that area. What kind of things are going they're going to replace with like what items like when they go I work construction. So when we have yucky junk that we need to get rid of, we go, "Oh, who's going to take dirty fill?" This is going to be who what kind of fill is going to go back into this area to um go ahead and reclaim it back to farming land. The top soil will be great at the very end of this process which might be 25 to 30 years out. We don't know. But the underneath stuff of that football potentially football stadium size area, what what's that going to be? Because that's going to filter into my wellwater and who controls that? Who do we talk to? Like I understand I'm hoping it's going to be ethical and wonderful, but I don't know. And so my those are some of our concerns, our wells um and how it affects. So the Carver County did say that the water table um is about 10 ft below where they're going to start mining. And so he said that the water from the the streams and such and they're doing some some information. They were they're in the process of looking into that will go under. So it will be a little bit um there'll be a little bit of irration so it's fresh cuz I'm like well will it be a lake that ends up being there um or or what? And and ultimately he's saying that it's going to potentially go back and forth and that's why they need to do the pumping. And the pumping is the part where it little concerns me. I don't know all the technicalities around it but I will know when it affects my well because when it floods it can even affect our wells. And so last last year or the year before we had um our wells tested and as well um made sure that the depth was fine because we were getting discolored water in our house and um and so we were I was just wondering like what is this all coming from? Well, it comes from the aquafer which is 276 ft down according to our house from that point. But if it affects just from the flooding, what is it going to affect when we take out a football stadium size of dirt over years? And how will that affect potentially our houses? And I agree the noise. We'd love to have that minimized if at all possible. I don't know if it's going to be possible. We're asking him to do something that might be impossible because he can't put Burhams on the side that affects our house. And so I just I I hope that you guys can potentially see that we need some more time possibly. Um again, our neighbors to the north of us, they bought the land specifically for hunting and fishing. And um there will be actually affected much more than us because it will be directly across from their hunting land. But um we just ask for for more time or who do we contact for accountability because I've already gotten the runaround and I feel like as homeowners and land owners in Carver County um we our neighbors to the north of us haven't even heard about this didn't even have a choice and I know the legal ramifications of that but the physical how can we proceed because we feel like we've really not been given a voice and the voice that we have had in a very limited amount of I am um I wasn't even going to come today because I feel like the decision was already made prior to us even coming to any meeting and that's really hard um because this affects us tremendously. So, thank you so much. Thank you. Anybody else? If not, uh I'm going to bring it back to the board for discussion. And I know uh Mr. Milky that um well affecting wells etc neighbors would have strong recourse I'm assuming. Yeah Mr. Chair I think the well wells are all administered and managed by department of health. Um, as far as the hydraology of how that works, talking to the wrong person, it probably somebody from Planning and Water Wall would probably be a better better resource. Okay, Commissioner Lynch. Mr. Chair, if I could, I don't know if this is for uh Mr. Mets. I've never heard the term quiet enjoyment before. Is that a legal term? is that uh um yeah, Mr. Chairman, I've been trying to sit out the last few nights and the uh I'm going to complain about the innats. They're affecting my quiet enjoyment. Do you have a is that a legal term for I've never heard that before. Yeah, Mr. Chairman and commissioners, it there is a legal term, quiet enjoyment. I'm not, you know, familiar with what the requirements are and and you know, certainly there's the standards and the statutes and the ordinances that this board and the planning commission have to follow according to that. And so that's a consideration that they take into as well. So, Commissioner, may I Oh, I'm sorry. May I interject for a moment? Of course. I'm Rachel Holland. I'm council for William Mueller and Sons. Um relative to the quiet enjoyment issue, yes, that is certainly a legal principle that every um property owner has the right to quote unquote quiet enjoyment. And Mr. Mets can correct me if I'm wrong. It it's not literally you get peace and quiet on your property always. It's the fact that you have certain rights relative to your property. And you know, one thing could be, you know, that could disrupt your quiet enjoyment could be trespassers. It it really doesn't have anything to do with noise, per se. Um, so I just kind of wanted to to point that out just so there isn't a misconception that everybody is entitled to absolute peace and quiet on their property, which would be great, but it's just not realistic. Um, the other thing I'd like to point out that hasn't been brought up is the rights of the property owner on which this mine is going to be uh placed. Uh, the Diamonds have a right to use their property in a manner in which they see fit. Um, they're allowed to make money from their property. Um there's been a lot of work that's gone into this. Our our firm has represented William Mueller and Sons for decades. Um they are one of the most um you know, it's a local family-owned company. They care about the residents of the county in the townships. This isn't the first time they've done this. This is also why they've done so many things to try and mitigate some of the noise issues, the dust issues. they know the concerns of of residents that are surrounding their their minds and they really truly do their best to consider those things as they conduct their operations. But I think it's important to point out that um as uh Miss Py said earlier, gravel's only located in so many spots. It's it's just not everywhere. So you have to go to where the gravel is located. If we want road improvements like highway 212 um right outside my office in Wakonia, the streets are being reconstructed. We need material to be able to do that. So this is one of the the things that's required in order for um our technology and our the way our life is, you know, has become in the world that we live in today with paved streets and that sort of thing. and and the Diamonds have rights to use their property as well. Um, so I just wanted to point that out as something that hadn't been brought up and I can I'm also a resident of Camden Township. Um, I live on Highway 25, so I am not next to adjacent to this property, but it is one of the things that I know is possible living out in the country that I could have a gravel pit going in next to me with I own 40 acres as well. um but a solar farm could be put there. All of these different land use requirements and it's it's a difficult balance to make sure that everyone's interests are being considered. Um, but I guess what I can tell you is that with the work of Miss Polly and William Mueller and Sons, they're doing everything according to the law and complying with all of the regulations that have been put in place by both the township, county, state, and federal government relative to environmental issues. Thank you, Chair Workman, if I may. Commissioner Anderson. Um, thank you so much for your comments. I mean, what I what I see this as is um this is a this is a neighbor issue. And um while I understand when you move to a property and you expect and and and you move there for some reason um that that it could change and um I see William Mueller and son as being a good neighbor. They've they've made adjustments to this plan. They've changed the hours to this plan. Um, but the reality is when you move into a property and a a a business becomes your neighbor, it is going to change things and that's hard and that's difficult. Um, and as a business owner myself, I struggle when I hear other people making decisions that would infect somebody's livelihood and their ability to be profitable. And um, I think William Mueller has been a good neighbor and I think will continue to be a good neighbor. And you're right, he he has rights. they have rights to this property and um I think the planning commission did their job. I think this process um maybe there's room for improvement in this process. Um I I don't know what that is. I I trust Jason in in going through this. I don't see any benefit personally of extending this. Um I personally I I think um we need to move forward with this decision so that people can make plans and accordingly some of the suggestions be put into place in paper on paper. You're talking about my good to be a good neighbor but we've talked about some recommendations to make those changes. I think you're gonna and I would I think you're going to need to come up to the podium y again. We do want to limit it to only seven people at the podium, but yeah. So, we've talked about a lot of possible adjustments at that and it's it sounds like they're willing to do it, but I'd like to see that in in writing. And we talking about the hours of operation, the hours of operation, the forward movement, the backup bells, um the white noise, the BMS like the township has suggested. Could those BMS be moved over because and block my view so when the leaves go I'm not sitting and looking at a pile of gravel on the other side of the Crow River. Um, can those things I mean that's why I'm I'm asking for some more time so the township can go through and make some of those changes and agreements with with Mueller to um and have it put in writing because if it's just been discussed here, it sounds great, but unless it's put in writing, we have no nothing we can go back on when they show up at 6:00 in the morning instead of 7, when they're still there at 7:00 instead of 5, you know, and you know, the BMS MS, like I said, they're not going to help us. And there's literally more houses on the east side of that gravel pit than there are on the west um that are being affected. And nothing's being put up to block that view. Yes, there's trees there now and there's the um flood plane and the water which is an absolutely beautiful view, but when the leaves go down there's some So, can it be can't there be time where some of that cuz now the township seems like they have more information than they had in the past to get that stuff in writing somehow submit it whether it's to Mueller. I don't know what that process is. So, it can be put in writing so that we know that our good neighbor is going to do these things just like you do with any good neighbor and with any kind of business. But I I I would I would um divert back to um Mr. Melky. Um yeah, Mr. Chair and Commissioner Anderson, I think the conditions you can, as I indicated earlier, you we can we can modify the conditions as part of this process. So, if the hours of operation are going to be 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 pm Monday through Friday for production and 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Monday through Friday for hauling and Saturday 7:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. I'm not quite sure what Saturdays consist of yet. So, that needs to be identified. we can include that that information um as part of the the county board's order which then it will be documented and gets signed and gets recorded. So if there's modifications you want to make right now you certainly have the ability to do so if I could Mr. Sure. And on page 23 of the third paragraph, it says to minimize impacts to surrounding uh properties, applicant proposes establishing circular truck routes to reduce uh the use of backup alarm. So So that is already in there. Yeah. So Mr. chair and and to Commissioner Lynch's point, it's it's the conditions are established as part of the permit, but we ultimately have a condition that references the operational plan, which is their narrative, and the site plans, they become part of the permit as well. So, if there's any modification to any of that, um it's not just the conditions that are are laid out here, but it ultimately goes back to what was in their plan. and um modifications can be made in the more strict modification would supersede what ultimately is in the ordinance or in the uh narrative as well. I I I'm personally reluctant to make modifications that would make it difficult for Mueller and Suns to um be successful. So, I would have to kind of go back to um to you and and and working with that, but we do need to balance um your neighbors. And so, I trust that you'll all um develop a relationship and and start working together. And um Carver County needs businesses and and and we need to be a great place to work um to own a business as well. Could um could we somebody answer the burm east side burm question? So on the east side we certainly can um add a condition that burming along the east side that is outside of the flood plane. Um to the extent possible there's a setback that's required between wetlands and the mine limits. And so you know we can look at constructing a burm in the area that's outside of the flood plane. you can't you can't put fill in a flood plane because that impacts um potentially can impact um flood elevations which isn't allowed. But um we can look at there's quite a bit of area along the east side that is outside of the flood plane and we can certainly um agree to a condition that um says that the applicant will um burm as practical along the east side um with um limiting impacts to wetlands and um and flood plane and and the applicant I'd like to reiterate um would um be completely open to amending the the condition and the hours of operation as we um have previously discussed which um currently it's at 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. but uh the applicant has agreed to 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. for production and 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. for hauling Monday through Friday and then uh 7:00 a.m. to noon for production and hauling on Saturday. And um that that if if you choose to uh change that condition um as Mr. Milky indicated that supersedes then the hours of operation that are in the U mine application plan and would would be amendable to that. So Mr. Chair, can we make those changes um in this at at this time and the reasonable Birming request? Does that require an amendment of some sort at the time of put it in a motion at the time of the motion. Yes. Well, Mr. Chair, I suggest we be clear what the language is. I want to make sure Jason this will end up in Jason's lap. Sorry. Are you The hour seems clear. It's more black and white. What about the Buring? The Burmine if we put it in as um we can add a condition. If we can't include it in an existing condition, we can we can add u um something along the lines of as Miss Paulie indicated BMAN on the east side as as amendable meeting flood plane and appropriate wetland setbacks. Well, it would remain to be seen how much top soil and removal is going to need to make a what 10 foot high burm or I mean what's adequate? Yeah, the majority of the the burm that's on the west side and the south side is all top soil that's being stripped off to create. So, they need that for restoration later on. Um, as far as additional material to be hauled on to create BMS, I'm going to leave that up to the applicant to explain. Yeah. So, typically the screening BMS are built in phases. So, um, as an area is open, you want to limit the size that's open at any given time. It's a just a standard erosion control um, best management practice. So, typically the phase one area, the top soil would be removed and the burm located adjacent to phase one would be constructed. It'd be shaped. it would be um seated and and vegetated to establish vegetation and and control erosion. Um and so during that time the uh along the phase one areas where it would be practical to put um a burm on the east side that activity would occur in phases as well. So that phase one area, the northern portion of phase one is located in the flood plane, but the southern portion there could be a um a burm constructed with that top soil material that's removed as part of the um mining phase. Uh I I would not anticipate that material would be hauled in to construct a burm. Typically these perimeter berms are all just from material that's overburden and top soil um that's located on site. And so, you know, a condition that says to the extent practical, burming along the east side will be performed in phases to provide screening from properties to the east. Mr. So, Mr. Sure. I would suggest you could uh direct Jason to develop that language as part of the motion related to BMS or you could have him recraft the entire CU is this CUP sorry and uh bring that put that back. You could put it on the future consent agenda potentially if you wanted to have more language clarity. That would be up to you. Yeah. I'd like to hear from other commissioners and Jason on Pardon me. Do you have enough Jason to put that together? Now I'm um I I do. I think listening back and with the assistance of Christa maybe to try and listen to the meeting and get that language detailed and put it crafted into a condition and we would just add it as a separate condition so it's stands out. Um, it's still up to the board to determine if you want me to put that together and as administrator Hemsy said, bring it back so you can you can see it or I'm open either way. I'd like to hear from my fellow commissioners on their thoughts. Mr. Lynch, Mr. Chair, if I could, I I guess at this point I would uh leave it up at to William Miller and Suns and how they would burden on the east side. I would just as needed I would be comfortable with that. I think uh if you look at it uh William Mueller and Son has done everything right here. They have agreement with both townships. They have an agreement to take the gravel to the west. Um and William Mueller and Son's been a good neighbor for quite some time. When did William Miller and Son start business? 1906. 1906. So you're not a fly by night. So you have uh been a good neighbor for quite some time with many other pits in Carver County and outside of Carver County. Um, I too live in a a house in the west side of Carver County and I love the enjoyment of it. Um, and to to Cheryl's point, she said it's her last home. I agree with that wholeheartedly. I plan on moving once that's over to the cemetery. Hopefully, it's not too soon. Um, but if someone a neighbor built a house to next to me, there would be a lot of noise that would be associated with that from putting the basement in to hammering the sawing all the way through. So, I don't control that on my neighbor's property. Uh, with that, um, if Well, I'm going to see where it goes. I would uh uh make the motion to approve uh adopt adopt the findings of fact to issue PZ2050012 for the issuance of an interimm use permit with the hours of Monday through Friday from 7 to 5 for production and the hours of 7 to 12 for production and hauling. that the correct hours we talked Monday through Friday 7 to 7 hauling. No, it was Monday through Friday. It was 7 to 5 and then 7 to 12 on Saturday. 7 to five for production, 7 to 7 for hauling. Right. Right. Did I get that right? Yes, you're right. Correct. I can't read my own writing. I apologize. I second. And Mr. share the production 7 7:00 a.m. to noon on Saturdays would be production and hauling. Correct. And then we're adding a separate condition to identify um Buring on the east side of the uh phase project areas to help provide screening and we'll craft that based on the discussion based on the discussion as as needed because as uh uh Vanessa it goes in phases. So obviously you wouldn't need it at the very beginning. So as a phase comes out as in phases. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Mets, just so it's clear because this board is voting on this and it is stating the findings and fact in the order. So it's not coming back with the language. Correct. And so with the motion, it should be clear as you stated with the hours, but specifically with the burm and what I heard was they were willing to um do some more additional burming as practical. And so if the motioner could make that clear at this time, that would be best. Well, and that's that's uh as practical as I'm perfectly fine with that terminology and and I'm happy seconding that with that as well. At the legislature, there's a big difference between may and shall. And we're saying may. Is that what we're saying? Yes. May. They may do BMS, not shall. Is that what we're saying? Yes. Yes, I'm seeing it practical and we're leaving it up to uh William Mueller and Sons and they've been a good neighbor since 1906. So, yes, I I trust William Mueller and Sons. And of course, I did not say I didn't. And I'm hoping they can fix Mr. Niss's wet farmland. Bet you they could. Okay. I just want to make one other comment. I appreciate all of the homeowners who have come to speak. I think you're all reasonable and um I I think you're going to be surprised that you're going to have um all be good good neighbors together. And I would encourage you to um have communications outside of having other people um intervene. And um I so I I'm hoping that these uh changes um will give you a little bit more peace of mind and um but uh and I'm hoping that that you all end up having um good relationships with your future neighbor. Supervisor, you want to come on back up? I I think I'm loud enough, but uh No, you're not. No, please come up. Why don't you come on up? Have a motion. Second. Believe me, I know. Can I get another copy of that 72 pages after this thing is all done sent to me? Yes. Like the last one? Indeed. That's all I want. Commissioner Man or Fehee, any any comments? Yes, Mr. Chair. I was going to wait till after the vote was taken for discussion. Well, let's let's have it before you might change some minds. Oh, all right. If I have that much influence, Mr. Chair, uh, as the liaison is on back to the planning commission, uh, we did vet this issue and all of the neighbors were there. Vanessa was there and Cheryl and the the Hennons were there and and they talked about the property and the impacts um that they see on um everything to the east of the mine site and um the planning commission we did talk about it at length. Uh we asked uh quite a few questions. Uh Tim Miller was there and answered all our questions and concerns and and went through the process. the process has started. Um I think this originally went through Camden Township in February. So the the time has definitely transpired and part of the recommendation that Camden Township gave that recommendation carries a lot of weight generally in a planning commission meeting and taking that recommendation and then the planning commission uh did give their recommendation and approved this and ultimately it was sent forward and originally when we talked about it from the agenda perspective effect of this was going to be a consent item. And nine times out of 10, all of these items once they get vetted through the planning commission, because that's the planning commission's role and responsibility for those individuals, um most of them or not most, but part of them are township supervisors that sit on the planning commission board and and obviously other residents and it's a lot of due diligence and it's a lot of work and a lot of time that's committed on the planning commission and that's what we're there for to do the due diligence and the vetting and excuse me. So as that process uh took place there uh was some discussions after that in um relationship to changing the hours and I think uh with what this board did taking it off the consent agenda and making an agenda item has given that another opportunity and I agree with Commissioner Anderson to move forward um because the neighbors did have their opportunity to speak here today again and I think we heard those concerns and I think it is um as the motion has stated to change those production hours and then also with the Burming and U Miller and Suns are in agreement with that. I think that's just a win-win as as we can continue to go forward. And as Commissioner Anderson has stated, this this is an allowable permittable use in Camden Count Township. So the land owner does have their rights and as attorney Holland has stated that the rights of the property owner, it's it's their decision. and then that starts the process and then here we are today with going through all the necessary steps. So I would be in support of the motion. Commissioner Hudman, I just recognize some faces. I don't know if everybody had a chance to speak that wanted to. We're good. That's good. Um I start from a place it's your land. You can do whatever you want with it. That's my starting place and that matters to the people that own the land and it matters to the people adjacent to the land. And where it gets a little messy is when it's there's competing interests on there. Um it pains me gal in the back when you say you come into the boardroom and you think it's uh it's already determined what the answer is going to be and I think that's our state of politics right now. I think a lot of things get done in the back doors or at the federal level or the state level or whatever. And I hope today at a local level you heard that we heard you. Um and I'd like to have the inclusion. Um although I know the Muellers would would would attest to it. if you're having a wedding, I think if you call them up, they they'd probably not crush that weekend. I I just I just know that to be the fabric of the family. He's nodding in the back, by the way. Um so so I don't see that that needs to be written in. Um Cheryl, you had mentioned um uh the notifications. I think people there was proper notification. I think we had this discussion. I think we heard from all the all the parties. Um and then the Mueller family, uh they they um they've operated here for a lot of years, which was already said. Um, I was at a a gathering, I don't know, a couple years ago, and they were honored for their community service. And I know anytime you run a gravel pit, you're going to have people that aren't going to like you for different reasons. Um, but the fact that Tim is here in person, uh, as part of the Mueller family, that that does say a lot. The fact that nobody came up here scorching him and throwing flames at him or his family says a lot. And I think that there's a lot that won't be in the contract that you guys will be able to negotiate. Um, it's not lost on me that this is potentially 17 years. You've got good math. I was googling it. chat. GPT helped me get 21,000 truckloads over the course of 17 years. That's a lot. And I've learned a lot even just today. Um, and then if it helps you at all, um, I've driven by many times and wonder why people would build build houses by the gravel pit and Carver. I'm like, why are why would people do this? And I've asked a lot of questions, not of the family, but of community members and the people that approve that. And people are building businesses around that gravel pit. And I'm like, I don't know why people would do that, but they do. And they're enjoying it. And I think that there's a plan once that thing gets capped. I'd like it to be, this is my pitch, I'd like it to be a bike trail so people can do extreme stuff. I'm sure there's houses to be built. Um, and to Commissioner Feheey's points, um, it went through township. Those people represent you, right? And it's thankless, favorless, horrible job sometimes and they have to balance it. Uh, went through planning commission. We all appoint somebody to represent the districts. We are, and I trust the people that are there, they're probably more knowledgeable than than us here. So, if those hours can be changed, if we can get a nod on the the weddings that that will come that we don't even predict. I also wish there was a way that we could post that this is really good land um that has gravel or or or um sand underneath it so that people before they buy um would know it's there. And I just don't think that's possible. And you know, 10 to 17 years, I know there's a business operation. Of course, they're going to make money. They wouldn't do it if they don't. But there's a lot of risk, too. They got thousands of dollars in the room right here of attorneys and people preparing for it. And that doesn't matter when you're hearing them crushing gravel and all that other stuff. Um, but it's like I get it. 17 years and it's I bet it's your last third of life, you know, and all in all intents and purposes. And maybe you want to see those birds and those deer and all that other stuff. And so I hear you. I see you. And I think that I think we got to a resolve. And I think this gives a little bit hope to local government that we can hear the local folks that come in. He didn't come with pitchforks for I've been in I've sat here JP probably more than anybody with planning commission is heard the anger of our neighbors. This was a neighborly conversation and I don't think everybody's going to get exactly what they wanted, but I think we got to a resolve and I love that the Muellers are here in town. I love that they contribute to local things. I will tell you the outcome would not be the same if it was an outside firm that was just motivated by money. And so those are I'm I'm supportive of what's been said today. And I also wanted to recognize Jason and his team. Who knows how many hours you guys put into this stuff um trying to research what is the legal thing. And I think in a lot of cases, um, the family's gone well beyond what the legal standard is to say what's the right thing to do as a member of the community. And to Commissioner Anderson's point, I'm a pro business person. I think that this is also a lesson and maybe we should concentrate some of the growth with 212 that has been put through, maybe that needs to be concentrated right on 212 versus scattering across the different townships. You know, this is something that we'll have to deal with as we see that growth. And so, um, those are some of my thoughts and thank you for being here. Well, this has been a long uh this has been a debate I've been watching for about 40 years as a legislator. I was on a aggregate subcommittee at the legislature. I actually started a spring road posting weight limit subcommittee. This is the kind of fun fun I've been involved in. Um uh I want to thank the uh planning commission for all their hard work on on another uh project here. Um the land owner has a product under underneath his land that Carver County has to have be using millions of tons of this year uh in projects not even minutes away from here. Um um and it is a business. It's a business. Uh uh you need aggregate. You don't want it to be very far away. And Carver County is growing and uh this is maybe further away than even they want. Um, but we have a planning process with our planning commission and us and our staff to make sure that the neighbors are not affected. If we didn't have this process, I suppose uh it would be chaos and willy-nilly and everything else and and our wells would be poison. But that's why we do have the process and it's drawn out on purpose and um but it is our staff's job to weigh both ends of it. The the land owner, the developer, the neighbors, and everybody in between. So, I think they do a good job at that. Um you do have to stay uh vigilant. Um, I think on the landfill, uh, if the wind blew to 16 m an hour, we had to shut down the landfill so trash wouldn't blow all over the place. You wouldn't believe the neighbors who had little weather stations. So, um, um, I'm glad we're we're kind of moving on. Got a few modifications to the plan, uh, but that we're moving on and maybe not dragging it out. So, um, thank you to all concerned and, uh, Jason, thank you very much. We do have a motion, uh, on the floor as amended. Uh, let's see, it was Lynch and Anderson on the motion on the second. Any other discussion? Commissioner Lynch, was that an aggregate subcommittee or support group? Both. Both. Okay. It's valuable stuff. Okay. Seeing no more discussion, all those in favor say I. Those opposed. Motion passes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for being here. Don't you have something to say? Oh, county administrator's report. I don't think we're that far yet. No, then I've been misguided. No. MCIT. Oh, yes. MCIT. See, you're looking right by. So, Minnesota Countyy's Insurance Trust. Mr. Chair, commissioners, I'm Sonia Walter, the riskmanagement specialist in employee relations. And I'd like to introduce today Gar Claybaw. He is the executive director with MCIT. MCIT is the Minnesota Counties Intergovernmental Trust. and Mr. Clayba is here today to provide the MCIT member report to the board. You covered it up. Good morning. Well, good morning. You got a busy morning. Sorry. We're looking something for something a little lighter like insurance insurance uh claims. I don't know. You cast your lot. I uh I have a hard copy of a document. You may have gotten this. U Okay. There's plenty there. You may have received this electronically, but if you're old like me, you like paper. So, uh, for those that need that crutch, uh, you've got paper. Uh, appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today. Uh, Sonia has been a a great uh, uh, point of contact for our staff uh, and has been a real strong advocate for your work in risk management and safety here. So appreciate her uh introduction and and just being available today to uh to join in on this this uh conversation. You can think of MCIT, the Minnesota Counties Intergovernmental Trust, as your insurer. We we like to think we're a lot more than uh insurance. Uh and I'm going to highlight a little bit of that this morning. Uh and then we'll walk through the the handout as well. We're a public risk management pool that was created in 1979 during a period where counties across the state were having a lot of difficulty accessing workers compensation insurance which you all know is a critical part of your business operations uh every day. And so we were created by about 20 counties at that time to serve that purpose. And since then we've expanded into uh other areas including property liability uh etc. And so now we're a pretty uh well-rounded organization that really supports all of your risk management uh work uh in in Carver County and across the state. 80 81 counties are are members of MCIT and about 400 other affiliated organizations all of which have some connection to counties soil and water conservation districts lake districts library districts etc. Um just a few things about MCIT. What makes us unique? Uh we're a public entity. So like your work, we're also a public entity. We're a joint powers entity organized under Minnesota state law. And our board members are your peers. Uh our board is made up of nine county officials across the state. Uh currently six commissioners, two auditor treasurers, and a county administrator. So they do the work. you and your staff are doing every every day. We're not for profit. So, as a government entity, we're not trying to uh generate additional profits that we pay shareholders. You own our operations. And so, if there's ever excess funds available, we return those to you. And the board has been very good to do that over the last 30 plus years. And I'll talk about that here in a few minutes. We really see our work as a partnership with with you. And so I know sometimes when you think of insurers, you think of an adversary. Uh we try not to do that. Certainly we don't always agree with our our members, but really our work is aligned with your work. Our our work is really custom fit to the work that you do every day. You're not hearing from salespeople. Uh so you're not paying those costs. Uh we're very fiscally uh and financially secure and sound. And again, I think your peer board uh on our behalf has really done a terrific job in in managing that over many many years. As I said, our work is a partnership. And if there's one thing I could leave with you today, it's just an understanding that this is really a partnership. as you make decisions that you make and clearly you're always challenged to make decisions uh responding to social needs uh in your community and thinking about new ways to get uh things done. We want you to consider how our coverage is a facilitator and a tool as you have to make those hard decisions. Give us a call. uh Sonia as your as your point of contact for us uh is is in regular contact with us. As you do work uh under contract with other organizations certainly uh give us a call. Uh we can give not legal advice but we can give risk ma mitigation advice oftentimes with with contracts how we protect your interests and by extension protect the pools as well. We've spent a lot of time in the last couple of three years on uh cyber security uh cyber hygiene. This is an area that we're doing a lot of training on. We've got good resources available and you're you're taking advantage of that. Our staff is regularly attending uh all of our members safety committees to be sure that we're there as a resource. Uh and I'm I know you're you're taking advantage of that as well. We offer a lot of training uh and I'm sure you've taken at full advantage of that and often those trainings are at low uh or no cost to our members. So take advantage of those risk management services. Take advantage of our consultants. Uh again, we're here really to serve your your interests. I'm not going to read this handout. I know that'll be a sigh of relief to you. But I do want to hit uh some highlights. Uh if you turn to page two for example, one of the things we do to keep our program offerings financially secure is we buy our own insurance uh which is called reinsurance. And that top graphic on the top of page two gives you a little bit of sense about what our premiums have been when we buy reinsurance, whether that's for property or liability coverage. uh your costs have been going up whether you're constructing roads, uh buildings, uh repairing facilities, what have you. We see those costs go up as well and those are driving reinsurance rates. Uh we also see increased liabilities. Uh law enforcement liability, for example, other public sector liabilities have been a driver for costs uh for risk pools really across the country uh not just in Minnesota. And so that's having an impact also on the liability reinsurance rates. Our board, again, your peers have taken steps in the last year to responsibly change our retention levels, those amounts of claims that we keep and we pay ourselves out of our pool funds before we go to reinsurance. And so they've they've taken some action to uh bring those reinsurance costs down by retaining a greater amount of that liability ourselves. But that increased uh retention, that increased liability that we hold on to uh also makes our partnership that much more uh critical. Um, and so we're uh anxious to do work with you that that uh really helps reduce risks uh by providing training, by providing consultation, support to your operations every day. And again, you're our partner in that work. Um, I might just highlight too on the way uh on the bottom uh half of page two, I mentioned insurance uh rates climbing as a result of property increases. And you'll see right now the pool in that bottom chart, uh, we cover $9.2 billion of total insured value. So that's this building we're sitting in, uh, the highway garages, uh, all over the state of Minnesota, courouses, etc. So we, uh, provide, I think, a crit critical support for you and your operations. If you turn to page three, we talk here a little bit about dividends, rates, and claims. We we refer to premiums in our case as contributions. Uh so you're going to hear that from from me and our staff. And those are comp and those are calculated in a way very similar to what property uh taxes are are calculated. There's a value there's an exposure for this building for example that we're in. There's a certain value that's attributed to that and we apply a rate to that to come up with the amount of money. then we charge you for contributions. Similarly with workers compensation, we've got some complicated factors that include salaries, job type, etc. But we're taking an exposure. We're applying a rate to that as a way to calculate that that contribution. So it does it does get a little a little complex. uh dividends. If you look at that upper right hand uh kind of tan uh graphic there, uh last year the board decided to provide $3.5 million in dividends to to our members. That's all from the workers compensation fund. They do that as a result of the actuary suggesting to them that they're retaining more revenues than they need in order to pay out their long-term obligations. And that's affected by claims, claim payments, but also by investment returns as well. Uh, and Carver Countyy's portion of that last year was $86,900. So, uh, we're again, we're happy to do that uh where where we can do that and uh and the board's been very diligent uh about that. The bottom chart on the bottom of page three talks a little bit about cyber security. that uh top line that's bouncing around uh the dark brown line there just gives you kind of a sense that cyber claims are incredibly volatile. uh you know basically these are crimes in a lot of cases that are being committed and so they're very difficult uh for us to provide some some level of coverage to uh but and again highly volatile if you look at the difference between 2022 claims and 2020 uh3 claims just the dollar amount paid out was uh very very different in in those two years. We're doing everything we can to provide training and support to to our members to be sure that you've got the tools that you need to uh be able to to deal with that uh everchanging area of liability. Last page uh last four here we'll just hit again a few highlights. Uh on the upper left section we talk a little bit more about the workers contribution, workers compensation contribution. uh we have a factor in there that's called a mod rate and that's a factor that really is reflective of your actual experience as compared to the pool as a whole and you'll see your rate is 084 so you're better uh than the pool as a whole so congratulations that's uh all as a result I'm sure of a focus on safety for for your staff and you're seeing the benefits of that in a reduced mod rate and it follows that that has a an impact to reduce your contributions for workers comp as well. The claims uh table uh on the right upper section is five years worth of claims. And so this is poolwide information uh from 2020 to 2024. And you'll see there again by department, the number of claims per year, the amount paid per claim. You can see at a glance kind of where our areas of liabilities are. That bottom section is property liability. Again, same annual averages. You'll see a lot of auto claims, for example. Uh we have 30,000 vehicles that we provide coverage to, but the average amount paid per claim is relatively low. I mentioned law enforcement liability earlier. You can see in that section that law enforcement liability, the number of claims per year is is relatively low, but the amount paid per claim is is pretty substantial. So, all challenges you all face and your staff face every day. We're we're here to make sure that uh where your staff are injured, where you have property that's damaged, we're in a position to help get you back on the road, help get that health restored, and get you back on your way so you can continue to do the things that your your public uh needs you to do uh every day. Last section here on the bottom of page four, and then I'll I'll stop, is just again, as I mentioned at the outset, we're here for you. Uh we're available to consult. We're available to review contracts uh to answer questions you might have that affect claims affect uh the relationship that we have between the organizations to provide training. We've got a resourceri website. Uh we just uh updated that about a year ago and so we're posting new and updated information on that all the time. Uh we support the employee assistance program. We in uh are are supporting a an outreach to sheriffs and jail administrators across the state with regard to performance uh in in jails. Again, all focused on bringing those liabilities down as well. So, thank you for the opportunity to be here today. Thanks for your support of MCIT. We're pleased to have you as a partner and I'm happy to answer any questions. Well, thank you. We're doing pretty good. Anybody got a question? Commissioner, I just have one. I know that sometimes insurance companies make business decisions based on just math. And I know that the other side of the equation is awful um sometimes an ethical or a moral question. How do you guys make the decision if you're going to tackle something where there might be a threat of a lawsuit or there might be a you know there might be a chance that you lose versus defend what you think is right? Yeah, it's a it's a great question. Uh, I mean, you know, we're constantly making calculus just like you do in your private lives as well. You know, trying to make sure that we are defending, for example, the rights of counties from a legal standpoint. Uh, trying to protect those rights because in the court a precedent gets established that can be detrimental in the long run. So, we take that into consideration. Certainly on a large dollar claims, those are the areas that we're really going to be focused at. uh sometimes we can settle claims uh with a claimant for less expense than we think maybe could be risked by going through the court process. So it's a complicated multiffactorial process and and I would say you and your roles here and your businesses and your private lives. I don't think our calculus differs much from that other than we're always trying to think about and protect the rights of counties and our members with regard to maintaining rights and immunities uh to be sure that those uh that we don't have adverse court judgments that complicate things in the future. And then another question I had is um it looks like our mod rate went down which is favorable. Um when we get the dividend and it's probably a tribute to Sonia and keeping us honest and there's any other areas we can focus. I'm guessing she's already turned over those buckets. But is the dividend paid in proportion to our mod or is it just a flat? Meaning if we're performing better than our peers, do they get the same dispersement? Yeah, it's it's a it's a good question and I can't think I I can't I I can't answer that question right off the top of my head. there's an allocation formula uh and I think the way the the dividend is calculated is is in proportion to the amount that's contributed. But let me do some additional uh digging and I'll I'll get to Sonia some information on that. We're in budget mode where we're going to see a lot of shift from the state. And so some of the things in my mind are is is this material is it an area we could clear we've had a lot of board discussions about self-insure on the on the on the human side of things not on the property side of things. And so those are questions that we'll probably be asking more of later and will uh you know we'll always say and we've always said you the dividend is no guarantee. Um, and so you know that even though we paid it consistently for over 30 years, it's also gone down over that period of time in large part because I think our pricing has gotten more precise. We've gotten better uh at uh at keeping those costs under control. But uh yeah, we'll certainly provide more information on that. You know what it is a guarantee is Sonia. She's a guarantee. She is our guarantee. That's right. Um I just want to if I may um Yeah. Um since we are in budget mode, uh two questions that I have. One is um what is the the rate of inflation on increasing um our our costs for insurance? And and I should know this because I have a ton of insurance policies, but I'm looking on the back and high deductible, help me understand. High deductible means um usually we have a a lower cost. Is that right? Right. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Y I I should really know that. So we're we're retaining we we we think of it as retainage and we think about it in context of our reinsurance. So for example with our workers compensation reinsurance association WC is the state authorized. There's just a single reinsurer that that does workers compensation reinsurance in Minnesota. Uh so our the board about a year ago, well for 2025 uh up increased our retention level to a million dollars. So for every workers comp case now that uh that we have, we're liable for the first $1 million of those claims. Uh and so we're buying less coverage from WC and so they reduced their premium as a result of that. And we made that decision as a financial calculation. looked over years and years of the data that we have, the number of claims that have been in excess of a million dollars in claims and with our actuaries help evaluated what benefit there might be to MCIT and our members if we were to move to the $1 million retention level and made that financial calculation. So maybe that helps a little bit. That does help. So thank you. Um thank you. And um h are are costs rising based upon a um inflation? Do we have that number? Yeah, you know, uh inflation certainly factors in. Um for example, uh we're all paying greater wages now as well. U and so wages are part of the calculation as to how we calculate our workers compensation premium. So to the degree that wages are going to go up, that will have an increasing effect on the work comp dividend. What can offset that will be safety efforts. So we're seeing claims come down and over time what you see in our in our claims history is workers compensation claim numbers are coming down. Uh so that's good. So that offsets some of that inflation. So it's not just one factor uh in that way. um on property for example uh property has been increasing at a greater rate than inflation and that's I think coming out of the pandemic and it's labor costs supply shortages uh things that we've just all experienced over the last 5 years uh and it's weather you know so we're seeing greater weather events nationwide and so as we go to the reinsurance market the reinsurer that we're tapping for uh property reinsurance is also uh reinsuring other states across the the country and and around the world. And so they're trying to recover costs on on all of that. Those things are running at a at a level that's undoubtedly beyond inflation. All of those things get factored in as well as our actual loss history. So if we keep our losses down, if we keep our claims costs down, those things would be offsets to to inflation as well. Propertyy's been a very difficult area. You know, if you page back, for example, to uh the third page, the chart at the top, you'll see uh aggregate rate increases. The blue bars on that chart give you our rate. So this is just the rate. So this would be like your millage rate. And then you take that times property value. So, this is just the rate, but uh 11.2% was the rate increase uh in in 2025. So, it's all of those things, labor shortages, uh labor costs, uh reinsurance costs that are affected by weather, just a tremendous uh it's it's it's complicated. I mean, I've personally seen my insurance rates go up, so I just had to assume that um that they'll go up here as well. Yeah. Well, we're working very hard to try to keep those things under control. Obviously, we we want to charge our members contribution rates that are in line with what our actual experiences and that's how our actuary focuses on those calculations. So, to the degree we can keep the number of claims down and each of the each the the the claim costs down as well, that will offset those labor costs, supply costs, inflation generally. So we're we're working hard and again it's a it's a partnership that we've got with you and in getting all that work done. Well, we have Sonia, so that that helps us with that. Super the superhero. Yeah. Well, and we see a dividend number, but we don't really see what is the amount of dollars we spend on insurance. I'm not expecting an answer right now. Um, but what is the what is our insurance contribution? uh in total and can we just decide we don't want to ensure so we can balance our budget you know that'd be a a good move I think um that's a thought I don't know if it's a good thought we're at various stages of we don't really believe in insurance district chair commissioners I just thought I'd throw in there we do um selfinsure in a in an area that I just wanted to mention here I'm actually doing a review of it. So, autophysical damage, your comp and collision coverages. Um, every couple of years I we self-insure that completely. We don't have any of that with MCIT. So, we're paying those claims. And every couple of years I do a review of what would have it costed to get that coverage through MCIT, what were our claims, what did we pay, and it does it make sense to continue to self-insure the comp and collision? And I'm right in the middle of doing it right now. and it still makes sense. Um, the way that I calculated it would be about 145,000 um, in cost to have that coverage and our losses paid are well under that. But the one factor that I don't put in there is it's my time. I'm going after the guys that, you know, caused damage to our vehicles. I'm spending my time. MCIT is not. So that's one area where I've looked, you know, what makes sense for the county to have that insurance through MCIT or not. So kind of going with that thought process. Um, in looking at coverages, obviously we need liability coverage, work comp things like that makes sense to have with MCIT. So that is something that has been looked at. Thank you. Sony, I just want to follow up on that. I I don't think we should underestimate your time, right? And um I think that is something that we should bring in and look at as a factor of that, right? Um and that's mainly time seeking subregation against responsible parties, um sending a letter, getting the check, that kind of thing, right? So, um, yeah. So, if that's something that you can track, um, loosely, I mean, um, and I mean, I worked for an accounting firm, so I I I I know how to do that. Um, but if I I I think we should look at that. Um, because that's a huge piece of the puzzle there is how much you save us. Thank you. Could MCIT pick up my homeowners, cover my homeowners? Uh if you were a county, we could, but uh if you're not a county, then I'd like him to pick up my workers comp that I pay for my business. Um Mr. Chair, where's your faith? Just with the discussion about the high deductible, where do we rate with a county this size with the employees and the property? Um should we increase that deductible? I mean, it's something that we we certainly can talk with with you and with with Sonia about in terms of, you know, where where those break points are and what might might make some sense. I mean, there are some adjustments that you can consider. So, those are those are conversations we can have for sure. Please do. Thank you. Yeah, good question. Did you have another Okay, anybody else? Seeing none, thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate. We appreciate it. And I you were more exciting than gravel. You know, oddly this was a topic of this was on my mind. So um so thank you. All right. County administrator report. Well, first of all, Mr. Chair, we're going to be running out of time here at noon. We have a county courts meeting. So, do you want to I think we have time for the close session, which is a critical item, but uh communications department update. I would propose moving that. Now, unfortunately, June 24th is going to be very busy. So, probably be July 1st. Yes. Let's move it. Okay. Uh and then, uh next week is board board of equalization. Everything's set up for that. And do we have any customers yet? No. No formal requests, but you could get walk-ins. Can't remember if we've ever maybe had one or two of those over the past many years, which is pretty rare. I think the uh assessor's office does a real nice job of meeting with folks and they have met with many folks and worked out things and uh came to an agreement in effect with many folks. So that that process has worked well. But in addition to that 9:00 a.m. meeting, then uh you have the option of carrying that over to the 1:00 meeting on June 24th. Or if you don't do that, then then there would be no meeting at 1:00 on the 24th or I'm sorry, it' be that afternoon. Is that correct? Yeah, that same afternoon. So, we'll see how that goes. Everything's lined up there. I believe that's all I have, Mr. Chair. Okay. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? Go into close to a close session. What are we doing? Well, I think we have to adjourn first and then go into usually adjourn after that, which was a Oh, we're not going to figure out the legal reason for that, but motion. I probably should be reading something 67. Mr. Chairman, action requested. Motion enter close session. They got 66. You want me to pass 617? All right. We're uh it's a motion to enter close session pursuant to Minnesota statute 13D.05 subdivision 3C2 to review confidential or protect pro protected non-public appraisal data under Minnesota statute 13.44. 44 subdivision 3 and pursuant to Minnesota statute 13D.05 subdivision 3C1 to determine the asking price for the sale of county-owned real property located at 12404 Kelly Avenue in Cologne and identified by tax parcel identification number 040080900. Do I have a motion? So move. Second. I got a motion by Lynch, second by Udman to go into close session. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. Those opposed. Motion passes.