All right. Well, good morning. Uh this is a work session so no big votes on on anything but a lot of good discussion. Who are we going to get started with? Mr. Hemsy >> I think you start with Mr. Chair. >> Okay. Because I don't have a real agenda. Okay. Please stand and let's do the pledge. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> And then, Mr. Chair, you have the third quarter finance update first and then the government center. >> All right. Third quarter finance update. Mr. Freshman. >> Morning, Mr. Chair and board members. Uh, David Freshman, uh, part-time finance director and full-time ditch administrator. [laughter] >> Proud. >> The last couple weeks. Yeah. Proud. Um, so a couple things if I can get there. Go. Am I doing this? Tanner. >> Yep. >> Oh, got it. >> Maybe uh before we get going, let's uh let the audience know that Commissioner Lisa Anderson is uh I forget where she is. She might be with one of her patriotic sons. >> I am. I am. >> [clears throat] >> and she's very uh short on words uh this morning. >> All good. Um yeah, I I'm in I'm in uh Texas with one of my patriotic sons, so I got to pledge to the flag because he's got that in his living room. >> All right. >> Okay. >> Great to see you. >> All right. Okay. Uh so, a couple things. Uh I'll do a quick update on our third quarter uh budget to actual uh how we're doing and then we have two changes to the administrator's recommended 2026 budget. I'll I'll summarize. Uh then Ryan's going to give an overview of the from the GIS. Um and then if you remember in June he showed you guys values and now we're going to show you those values again uh but also the correspondent taxes that those uh the properties are paying. Uh so high level overview of that. Um, then I'm going to go through the long-term financial plan. Um, and then we got Lyndon's going to do a uh road and bridge capital improvement update. And then Marty was going to do one, but we're postponing that one to January, February. Decided it was it's enough of uh enough stuff to just talk uh talk have its own workshop. Um, and then Nick's going to do a um um update on [snorts] Cindy and Isaac are getting an update on our master space plan study. What about what about ditches? An update on ditches. >> Uh that's uh uh No, [laughter] I'm good. >> Quick quick question. Are there slides for this? >> Yeah. >> Yes, there's a presentation. >> Uh we want Chris to reeail them to you. >> Um well, I just thought that that I would be able to see them on Zoom, but I can pull them up on email. That's fine. >> Okay. Huh? >> Yeah, we'd have to share a screen with you. >> Maybe that's possible. >> Well, now we can't hear you. >> I was seeing them earlier, but um so I guess I was under the impression I would be able to see them on screen. >> Commissioner, we'll try we'll try and share them. If not, if you have a >> No, no, I can pull them up. [clears throat] >> Okay. So um high level investment income um continues to uh positive [snorts] positive budget actual variance um that's holding steady. We'll see what the Federal Reserve does with interest rates, but so far so good uh with that health and human services. Uh they did have a reimbursement delays uh due to the federal shutdown there. Uh Mayor K just text me this morning they're starting to come back in again. U but overall we think we'll be fine. We think they'll get caught up. um the placement budget, which is uh usually that's the one we worry the most about because those are the ones, as you're aware, that can get costly. Um and they're outside of our control. Uh we just have to pay the bill. Um but that one so far uh through the third quarter is is is doing well. Also, um our tax collections obviously a a big um big number for us. We got we're at 97% which is a little bit ahead of last year. So, um we're doing great with that. you know, we should be up right right at at 99 point something by the end of the year. A few more trickle in here before the year end. Uh public works, th this is new for us um that we're projecting a negative cash balance in our public works um road and bridge projects um at year end. And that we haven't we haven't experienced that before. Um, but it's just it's the uh it's the timing related to the number of huge projects that they're doing. Obviously, we're putting the money up front for most of these. Um, and then we get reimbursements. Um, and uh, we do anticipate once we collect all those, we'll be back to where we want to be, but we are going to be showing um, at year end a negative cash balance in in that account. >> How does that get covered? >> What's that? >> How does that get covered if we're negative? Uh it's just a a we got positive cash balances in in other areas and it just it means we have less money to invest uh overall. >> So [snorts] Dave, the receivables are who? Mindot. >> Um mindot. Yeah. >> Federal >> just about everybody we do business with. >> Scofflaw. Okay. >> It's more Yeah, it's more on our end just to process the all the invoices and get MM is going to be more more expensive bill there% of their contracts differently so they're able to bill them. We some of our contracts we weren't billing them to the very end of the project and you know it was fine when it wasn't a lot of money that was good but you add up a bunch of those um that impacts cash flow. >> Can we late fee the state? >> You can try. Yeah. [laughter] >> I wouldn't hold out much hope but um so just something you know something we're managing something we're keeping an eye on. It does impact our uh our investment portfolio but Mary Kay and Mr. Kerber Tom Kerber is still involved with that. So, uh, they're actively managing that, but it did catch their eye that oh, whoa, look at this. And then, um, then we started talking with Lyndon and his team and and we are projecting, uh, negative, which the auditors might might make a comment about, but um, kind of like a ditch, negative balance in a ditch account. Those are these are things that happen when you're doing a lot of projects. [clears throat] Uh, recording fees, uh, they're ahead of, uh, uh, the third quarter in 2025. We're ahead of where we were last year. We're still below uh like our our running fiveyear historical average. Um mainly based on interest rates um refinancing activity. That's when those drop down a little bit more. We'll start seeing more refinancing. Then um that'll pick up. But uh as Mayor Kay indicated, this is actually her presentation. Uh she was going to give this, but then she had some change in plans and uh so I'm doing that. But she did mention it's a lagging indicator, right? We're kind of following the economy when it comes to uh recording fees with land records. And then lastly, our license center. Um positive news. We're losing less money than budgeted. Still losing money, but it's less than what uh we had we had planned on. Um, we're uh making some improvements our operations and um we're um got new staff that that are doing great and we're uh we made some improvements on our website in terms of our um [snorts] making appointments and and uh uh different things. So, a lot of a lot of good things happening there. So, any questions on our third quarter finance update? So, overall good, steady, no no big worries. Um things are going well. Is the net delta couple hundred thousand one way or the other? Is it a million to budget to budget >> for license centers? >> No, for all Q3. >> All Q3. Um uh too hard to tell that those uh uh mainly those those placement budgets and you know some of those lag things we we don't we we we always think it's going to be uh going to break even you know and unless we see something significant that says oh wow this is going to this is really going to help us and that's going to carry the day or we got a really big problem. If we had a really big problem, then I'd be coming to you guys saying, you know, we got we got what what do you guys want to do before year end to adjust for this? But at this point, it's just it just seems steady. And the things that are uncontrollable that are out there, if we have a little bit of good news in one area, it's being offset by another area. So >> So we're coming out of Q3 flat. >> Yeah, flat is our is our projection. But just that that that's not really meaningful, Commissioner Lutterman, because we always say that. We always say we're flat until we know we're not. you know, so it's it's it's it's tough to track everybody's business and and really um know where we are in real time, but we are we are looking we're managing best we can. We do ask a lot of questions and but everything at this point just seems like they're all offsitting and so yeah, we're expecting a collab. >> Great news about the license centers. >> Yeah, it's good uh hard work and uh yeah, great great people doing doing great work. Um keep we'll keep we'll keep at it. >> But on that, Mr. Chair, what what kind of gap do we have now? Do you think was it half a million we had annually? >> That was uh that was during the co years when we weren't bringing revenue. Yeah, we're closer to 200,000 >> negative this year >> on operations. >> On operations. [clears throat and cough] >> Okay, we're locked up. I think Colin took over. I don't know if that >> Oh, there we go. Thank you. Um Oh, this uh sorry, I don't know what happened to this slide. So, uh two changes to the administrator's recommendation. Uh as you recall, we had a voluntary 4-day work week and voluntary furlow. Uh we had put 50,000 as just a placeholder. uh nice round number for 2026 budget. Uh then we went through the open enrollment process and we ended up with 90,000 in savings. So an additional 40,000. The administrator's recommendation is to um take that $40,000 in in levy savings on voluntary payroll um reductions and add to the employee relations STOC, which is our short-term um short-term positions. Um, and that's a that's a bucket then that all the divisions can use um if they have unexpected um and temporary uh needs related to uh people taking time off or medical leave or um maternity leave and we're anticipating we need that. They had actually asked for more initially but we weren't able to fit in the budget. Now we're able to do that because of the uh Minnesota paid family leave law that's going in effect in effect uh beginning of the year. We think we're going to need we're going to have more of that. Um people taking time off and and needing to backfill that. Um and this this bucket of money that um uh Imperial Relations has will allow us to spend a little bit more um doing that. >> Do we know how many participants that 90,000 in savings represents? >> I just happen to have that in front of me, Mr. >> Mr. Chair, Commissioner. Uh so furlow we have uh 17 4 day work week we have two more were submitted uh and there's a little bit of indication here of staffing pressure especially with the 4-day work week. Uh there were eight submitted and only two approved. So, it kind of shows you that managers are a bit nervous about losing folks one day a week, but in in some cases and why why we offered it, it it works pretty well and make it work. They figure it out. But, but I felt it was a a good alternative to throw a little bit more money into the STOC. Not that we'll just spend it. We might end up saving that between between this these programs and then paid family leave and some of the other things that are putting additional pressures on staffing. So that that's the thinking behind it. Anyway, >> as I mentioned, uh so this change along with this second one, they'll both be included in the administr's recommendation that we'll be bringing um to the board on on December 2nd. Uh the second uh change is in our capital projects um for both uh parks and trails and and road resurfacing um area that we had initial preliminary budget. We had didn't have any money uh from the taa the the uh transportation active account. Is that right? >> Yeah. Um and we had a little more time took a little more time and then and um decided there was more projects that the that they're ready to do. And so you can see we increased the capital projects um by those amounts using mainly from the TEAA funding a little bit of grant funding and city cauters that were associated with those projects. So, we just increased our our capital projects budget for 2026. Um, no impact on the levy because we're using uh dollars from other sources. All right, with that uh um the let Brian come up and do a uh presentation. Overall message uh is assessor sales study drives change in property values. That's what uh his presentation focused on in June. Then the property values they change based on those uh how those averages how the the uh change in values drives the property tax increase. So in general the sales study right actual sales increases people's property values and if it happens faster than than the than the average then that there's going to be a tax burden shift um to your property. So your your tax rate is going to be high your tax impact is going to be higher than the average value of home. [snorts] it's similar to the average um then it's going to be similar the tax impact will be similar to the average value at home and then obviously if it's less so it's a common misconception that people think oh my my values went up by 10 15% that means I'm I'm I am paying more and they think it's going to the county but what's really happening is they're paying more and then those uh homes or properties [clears throat] that increase less than the average they're actually paying a little bit less so it's just a it's between those guys that the money is being shifted. It's not actually coming to the county. So, just uh that's the overall message of of what this uh what Ryan's going to go through. It is a little tricky. Um I guess you'll explain the technology stuff. >> Yeah, [laughter] sure. All right. Thank you. >> Uh good morning. Ryan Johnson, county assessor chair, commissioners Tanner. >> Yes. [clears throat] See if that'll let me work there. >> Yeah, probably not. should turn this guy off then. >> Here we go. Okay, so overall this kind of shows kind of an aggregate overall picture of on the left if you can kind of take a look at our taxable market value percent change on the right we've got those corresponding tax tax impacts from more of a global countywide perspective. Um I don't know if you guys recall, but every year we take a look at these same um five residential parcels and kind of track their value and corresponding tax history. Um so all the current commissioners [clears throat] would probably recognize these parcels as we pull them up with the exception of Commissioner Anderson. I don't think she's seen these exact parcels before. We'll start with the parcel. >> That is correct, Ryan. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> So, we'll start with this uh residential parcel here in Chanhassen. You can see that its market value changed by just just under 3%. Taxable market value increased by a little bit more because as that property's estimated market value increases, it loses what's called that homestead market value exclusion. >> [snorts] >> So that's kind of why you can see that difference there with that 3% versus 2.82. The corresponding total tax changed by 3.42%. And I guess we should start with, you know, if you guys remember in June, overall residential property values increased by about 4% countywide. So this parcel here with the market value increase of just under 3% is a little bit lower than what you're going to see for the countywide average. And Ryan, what's the new number for the homestead exclusion? >> Good question. So, uh, Commissioner Fehee, that homestead market value exclusion phases out once the property's estimated market value reaches 517,200 in value. >> That's awesome. >> So, even even at $500,000, you're not seeing a very, you know, large benefit. The largest benefit is going to occur at a value of 95,000. So, um, it's definitely geared for lower value properties. [clears throat] >> Where's this $95,000 property? >> I have a pen and paper. >> You know, if you kind of think uh statewide, right, out of the 87 counties, it's probably not going to be located in Carver County, but some of your outstate counties are going to have a lot more parcels that would fit into that >> price. Commissioner District two, no. >> [laughter] [snorts] >> Okay, so we'll take a look at this parcel in Chaza. You can see it's market value increased again, just a little bit under 3%. It's taxable is up just a titch more because of that decreasing market value exclusion with the homestead. And overall, its total tax has increased about 4%. You can kind of see that most of the properties in that neighborhood are more or less moving in that same direction. As we get a little bit further out west in Norwood, Young America, you can see this property increased by about 6%. and it corresponding taxable market value increased by about 7.3 and this property saw a total tax increase of about 10%. So a lot of that would be attributed to it actually moving a little bit more than what that county right average is going to see. Um, I guess I'd also note that the average residential property is about $494,700 uh for this 25 assessment pay 26 and that average valued property saw an increase of about 5.7%. So with a with a larger increase as director Frenchman alluded to you're going to see a larger contribution in dispersals property taxes. We take a look here in Victoria, you see a lot of red both with the county tax percent change and with taxable market value percent change. As a whole, Victoria itself obviously didn't see large increases on either on either side, but this specific neighborhood uh was running a bit low with our sales study. So, Victoria's overall change was about 9.16%. Uh, this particular neighborhood saw drastic increases. It was actually part of our five-year inspection this past uh summer in summer of 24. If you guys kind of remember, I'm like a three-year timeline. market changes and improvements that [clears throat] occur in calendar year 2024 are going to influence that January 2nd 2025 value for taxes payable in 2026. So you kind of think of it in a three-year, you know, snapshot, then it kind of starts to make a little more sense. But as you can see with this neighborhood altogether with, you know, seeing a 19% increase, this property was about 19.3. taxable market value saw a significant impact. You know, again, as we kind of approach that 5172, it's nearly phasing out that homestead market value exclusion and that corresponding tax burden shifted to almost a 20% change in this case as we move into Waconia. This property on Oakpoint Drive saw a market value change of about 5.7%. You see that taxable market value change is going to mirror that estimated market value change because at this value 704,000 it's not seeing any homestead market value exclusion at all. Total taxes only changed by just under 3%. In this case, [snorts] >> does anybody have any questions about these five residential properties or anything in these neighborhoods? >> It seems just an observation. It just seems like those five we didn't pick out of a hat. They've been there for years, a decade or more maybe. Um, so it's a sample and I don't know if it's a representative sample, but generally speaking >> in all of those scenarios, the property value went up um less than the tax value. So essentially the tax rate went up. >> Yes. >> So there's three big components of that. Obviously, if anybody's watching, it's the school district, the city or township, and um the county. And so um I just continue to impress upon us if we continue down the path of the taxes that we're doing um we will increase our tax uh rate. And I think most if not everybody on this board is kind of committed to lowering taxes and getting our tax rate down. And then I had some some activity on social media and some conversations around town in the last handful of weeks. A lot of people are asking about this and uh 35 bucks a month more here, 25 bucks a more there. It all adds up. And so, um, anyway, I just wanted to say that these five represent what I've been saying for a while that our tax rate looks like unless we make a decision to to change our course, um, will go up. So, just want to make that comment. Okay, we'll take a look at the commercial impact with three commercial retail properties we have in the county. And again, we've been tracking these for a handful of number of years, at least at least a decade or so. [clears throat] We'll start in Shan Hassen. So, this DBA is onetop station two LLC. A lot of you might know it has that convenience store that has that Burger King attached to it right off of five out there in Chan. market value change was relatively flat for this property. Uh overall for the 25 assessment commercial property types saw a relatively minor decrease of about 2 and a.5%. So that's trending as expected. Market value is going to match. County taxes increased by about 2.2% 2% and that overall tax increase is just under 2% as well. Take a look over in Victoria. We've got a multi-tenant uh commercial building over here that has several different tenants that have lease agreements with the fee owner, Spread Enterprises LLC. Overall percent change for this property is a decrease of just under 2%. Again, matching that taxable market value. There's no relief for commercial property tax commercial property owners from any kind of exclusion. County taxes increased by 14% but the total tax amount actual decrease of 4.38%. We'll go out west to Watertown. Uh the fee owner, Citizens Telecommunications Company. Uh this is obviously been looking at we've monitoring this property again like all the other properties for a number of years. Um this building um operates in part as a storage partly storage for servers for Frontier Communications and there's actually a retail bookstore uh occupying the other space. Uh this property was inspected in calendar year 2024 and some changes were made based off of condition, occupancy, and use. So this a more than average increase of 35 and a half% give or take. County taxes increased quite a bit on this parcel, just under 41%. Their total taxes have gone up about 44 and a half percent in this case. Anybody have any questions about commercial property types? >> Hearing no, we'll move on. Here's a couple of agricultural properties. We'll start with Camden Township. >> Uh [snorts] egg in general for the 25 assessments 5.79% increase. There he is. This is just under average with about 4.1% increase year-toear. Taxual market value is going to stay the same. County tax is up about 7 and a half% and their overall change is about 6 and a half% in this case out in Watertown Township. This person here is looking at about a 4% change year-over-year. Taxual market value only 2.6% in this case. [snorts] County tax increase of 4.3% but their total tax amount is almost flat at just a 0.20% increase. Does anybody have any questions about agricultural properties tax? Ryan, on the egg side, have you seen a lot of change in the larger parcels? You know, uh, the permanent revenue actually breaks out both improved and unimproved land. [cough] It's over 34 and a half acres. We have seen in the uh 24 study for the 25 assessment and now you know currently in the 25 study for the 26 assessment uh certainly some increasing market values for those larger egg parcels. [clears throat] Um egg like commercial industrial and multif family apartments all of those property types require what's called a full sale verification for each sale that we have to then submit to the department of revenue. Since a lot of egg properties are enrolled in some kind of a program, uh some of those can kind of taint the sales. So kind of kind of, you know, increases a need for more scrutiny with those property types to really get down to what was what was the overall driver for that transaction. Uh but yes uh Commissioner Fig to answer your question we have certainly seen uh seen increasing market values for for the larger egg parcels uh which kind of mirrors our you know green acre values. If you guys remember I talked a little bit about that in June that green acre per acre rate for both till you know productive and non-productive rural vacant land. Those values per acre on a per acre basis are set by the state and it's based on every county's sales data. Uh they try to look for true egg sales that have, you know, no non- egg influence. So it can be kind of hard to scrutinize that, really get down to what is a true egg sale, especially in a a growing county like Carver where a lot of our egg sales are going to be located, you know, usually closer to a city where there's going to be some development pressure. uh but we have seen that corresponding green acre per acre rate steadily increasing over the past few years as well. So that answer is yes we you've seen that impact for sure. >> Thank you. >> Y so that does conclude this GIS presentation. So, unless anybody has any other questions. >> Fun stuff. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, Anna's going to make another switch. Okay, now switching to long-term financial plan. That's kind of the end for uh 2026. Now we're looking to 2027 uh and through 2031 and then uh beyond as needed. Um and just a reminder that the long-term function plan is it's a non-binding assertion of future intent. So it's just a plan, just a planning tool. um it's very helpful for us to look at our capital to be looking out um and you know equipment replacement to decide if we want to hang on to something a little bit longer. If we think the we're going to be able to replace it in in in next year, you know, then you maintain it one way. If you think you got to hang on to it for another five years, um you know, you're going to you're going to look at it differently. So, um it's it's overall it's a very good um it helps us look at both the operating um budget long-term challenges what I've listed there um which includes for this this year now the legislative impacts which obviously had impact on our 2026 budget but also we're looking for 2027 and 2028 um facilities vehicles equipment replacement as well as our capital improvement plans our CAPs um and there those are funded by a variety of mo mainly nonpropy tax levy dollars. So in terms of the operating uh budget challenges uh obviously the the largest increase every year is for our existing FTEES uh you know 6 million plus or minus wage and benefit increases last several years that's been our trend that's obviously a big number um that we add to our budget every year just to keep our our wages our current wages current staff competitive with the market and then new FT requests um ongoing challenge uh we we weren't able to add very many um FTEEs to the 2026 budget. Um we and that's been a trend we've had for a while. Um and but the the need continues. Um the tax base is growing. The service delivery that we're doing is getting more complex. Um but we are trying to offset that with technology investments, focus on continuous improvement, trying to get more efficient, cooperating with other [cough] other uh levels of government. Um, we do have a a five-year FTE request chart that we we look at. Uh, for 2027, it was 18 and a half FTEES, pretty similar to what we have for 2026. Health and Human Services, Heather's area had 10 in there. Another one that jumped out was, uh, 2028 Chasco Library, um, seven FTEEs. Uh, the county administrator asked me to mention the electronic access. that's going to be uh an offset to that perhaps cost sharing with the um the local governments in terms of libraries. Um those are those are you know strategies we're taking to try and mitigate the impact. I do have a chart showing the FTEs per thousand population using that average FTS over the uh next five years excluding the CHASA because that that kind of bounces but that'll be the next uh next slide. >> Health insurance. Oops. >> Excuse [clears throat] me. Quick question on the Chesca Library. Is that set to be open in 2028? Has that been confirmed? >> You know, that's a that's a Nick question, Commissioner. >> That that has been confirmed. I mean, I I don't know if Nick is there. This is uh Lisa, obviously. Um I'm on the library leazison. Um, yes, that has been confir um confirmed although I'm working with the city of Chaza on those FTEEs and and that's something um something that we're considering and looking at as we design that library and plan for the future. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I [clears throat] >> I'll give you more of an update next next week. Yeah, and we'll dive more into this issue certainly as things progress, but uh as noted here, I think electronic access, not only for the Chaza Library, but for all our whole system is a pretty big key to providing good services and trying to mitigate some of these cost escalations. Uh but also this cost share and I would say that sort of this new idea that we're just starting to talk about with with our cities and we haven't really explored it too much. So stay tuned. But the idea is to just in instead of saying,"Well, we can't afford it or we're going to cut it. Could you help us maybe leverage your existing resources, maybe your park staff or somewhat some other way if you want some of these discretionary services intact, can you help?" Right? instead of just saying cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut and and there's a long ways to go with that but I think it's a big component of our as we look you know two three years of that whole plan with these cost should stay cautious and we'll get into those moving forward uh and then finally I would say uh I think it's important to keep more up to speed on what's going on with this news library so I've talked to county or city administrator Paraski and Nick and and Jod and others, let's get this in the county boardroom on a periodic basis to say, hey, here's what this library is starting to look like and here are the kind of major design elements, for example. If there's likely a second floor, let's make sure we're mitigating the operational cost of that. Maybe it's conference rooms instead of, you know, having a need to have staff up there, right? So, those big pieces are are coming and uh I know Nick will be working on that all this. So, so as we hit four first quarter next year, we'll be just jelling this and and bring it forward for more discussion. >> Good. >> Uh, and on kind of piggybacking what um administrator Hemsy said on that, I mean, as um I've been working with the city of Chaza and we've been talking about the the planning for the library. they are um on board. On board is probably a strong word, but they they understand our um some of our budget constraints and I feel like we have a really good partner in that um and kind of working and solving some of those issues. Um, and we have started talking about we probably need to really look at libraries in general, um, and have kind of a long-term comprehensive plan for our library system. And, um, so that's something that that we'll be working on as well in 2026. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Chair, you mentioned electronic access. Uh is that have we had any bumps in the road with that or is that going pretty smooth? I don't know if it's >> you sailing with well it's just Victoria it's important to have a good starter system and >> what I hear around the state sky county elsewhere it's going very well >> and very very few if any concerns about security etc. So >> it's wonderful. >> Not that there's not challenges, but I think the the green light is there to to move ahead with additional all of our libraries from my perspective. >> Nick, can you sign up for that online? Right. [cough and clears throat] >> Uh Mr. Chair, yes, you can sign up online. You do have to do an in-person uh orientation to um you know use the equipment. Staff want to make sure that you can you know get into the building everything works. So you can sign up online but then you do have to do inerson orientation. It's a a short orientation. Okay, Mr. Chair. Um so the next item is health insurance. Uh as you recall in 2024 we did a request for proposal. Uh it was just a two-year agreement. Uh which means in 2026 we'll be going back out for a um an RFP that will impact our 2027 uh budget for the first year. So we'll see what the market what the market bears with that. And then the new legislative impacts uh 2026 through 2028 we have the total is 6.1 million increased costs. Um the administrator is recommending for the next three years including 2026. So 2026, 2027, and 2028 a 2% levy search charge. Uh that would raise uh additional 4.8 million in levy. Uh you can see even with that, we'd still be looking at a $1.3 million gap. Um so the we have that is a legislative priority for 2026 is to try and mitigate that, delay it, eliminate um any of those costs that are in there. So that's that's an ongoing challenge uh that we see for the next three years. >> Mr. Um Dave, could you legislative impacts? Could you explain that a little bit for the people at uh watching at home? What do you mean legislative impacts? >> Um actually, I have a I [clears throat] have a a nice slide that I'll be uh presenting tonight at our public hearing. >> Okay. >> That summarizes all that, but I can uh hit the highlights. There's the uh does not meet uh criteria uh which is a a state cost shift that went uh came on to counties um in June of this year. and that's a $900,000 increase in in our budget. That's the main uh driving factor for 2026. And then in 2027, there is the they call it the ACT. Um it's a um child protection um uh cost, increased child protection cost that'll be actually ordered by a judge and based on this new law and we're projecting that uh 3.4 million um is the latest number I saw. And then there's uh several other factors that are adding up to that 6.1 million. So it's all and some at the federal level as well. Um main mainly the state uh shifting costs uh to to Carver County in the next over the next three budget cycles. >> And we're housing one individual up at Anoka for what was that? Uh >> the $900,000. Is that still the latest? Yeah, I know it increased one time but it's like >> 910 to be exact. That's the annual cost for that one individual. >> That was a that was a cost that the state had been paying uh up until this year. >> And Mr. Chair, let's not forget paid family medical leave. Uh in it's not part of this 1.5, it's an additional item, a real number, $400,000. Uh they had mentioned this the federal items. Uh been hearing a lot about SNAP, right? That's that uh with the government shutdown ending that's coming back. However, some of the actual burden of paying for the benefit is falling on the counties, which is unprecedented in my three plus decades. So, real real concerning sort of trend lines. And then Medicaid is the other big one. So, taking it from all sides here, it seems like that's top of the headlines every day almost. >> Attorney Mets. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, the name of that act is very easy to remember. the quiz the Minnesota African-American Family Preservation and Child Welfare Disproportionality Act. [laughter] >> What's interesting about that act is that there is a phase in program in Henipin and Ramsey counties that came with $5 million in funding. There is no funding for these requirements that are going to be additional steps that Health and Human Services are going to have to take. It is ordered by a court. The court has some discretion, but still going to have to follow the act. So, we don't know how much it's going to cost, but it's going to cost a lot of resources for sure. Now, additional steps that HHS already has to take beyond what their day-to-day requirements are. >> Yeah, I'd als I'd add on top of that, you know, the costing is difficult. We give it given it our best shot. I've heard big discrepancies between counties, uh, but we're not Henipin County, right? [clears throat] So, so they have their own way of doing business and things that they cover that we don't now that might have already been built in for example. But it is it's a big number. No way around it. And uh we'll be we'll be working on this no ma uh in addition to legislatively. Uh I've asked Heather, why don't you come in and talk to our judges about about just general education, right? And how how this is going to impact us because some of these things will be ending up in the the courtroom. So, we'll be working on that. Uh, but it's by far the biggest piece of the puzzle. And, uh, what's really concerning is we don't I don't see the the horizon here. You know, you don't see that where's this is this going to change? Can we change course legislatively, which is the real to me fix. So, uh, that's why that it's in the threeear three-year discussion. >> Yeah, that that's a good suggestion. Actually, we have a a justice advisory team made up of our partners in Carver County. We've had for decades. So, we meet with our judges, uh, probation, court services, the jail, myself. So we have quarterly meetings and that'll be perfect time to discuss that because at our last meeting we were talking about this and and a lot of us don't know the details of it because it's it's requiring extra active efforts that um trying to prevent unnecessary removal for African-American and others and there already are these steps but there are additional steps they have to take. So, I like that. I'll put that on our agenda um to educate our courts and everybody else and invite Heather to come in >> and Mark and I could work on that. I was actually thinking of the county courts meeting which is commissioners on that. >> Yeah. >> With both, right? >> Because we have all our judges at our justice advisory. I mean, we should today we have our our lunch meeting. We could bring it up and maybe indicate that that's one of our goals in January. >> First quarter of next year. >> Sure. Well, and the real problem, the real imminent danger uh to all of this is that the legislature, God bless them, uh believe they've come up with some really, really good ideas, expensive ideas that they [snorts] refuse to pay for within their own budget. they got a budget problem and so they're transferring those costs to the counties. Uh and so for example, Carver County property taxpayers have not paid for food stamps. They have distributed them to the needy, but they don't fund the program. That's changing. But the scariest part is a local legislator said to our legislative committee, "What difference does it make which pot of money it comes out of? The taxpayers going to have to pay it anyway." Which shows a pretty strong lack of knowledge of the property tax system if you ask me. And so more about that to come. It does matter what pot of money it comes out of. And that is what I believe um five county commissioners and our staff are united to fight against. And so um we got we got some work to do. There is a little bit of time for some of this, but uh it's going to [clears throat] be it's going to be uh a tough year in 26. So, and just one other question on the [cough] [clears throat] paid family leave. Is that the county's intention? That 888% are we splitting that with the employees? Yeah, that's in our contracts >> because we were at um was participating in a mosquito executive board meeting and Anoka County said that their portion is 900,000 and they're doing the 5050 split and there was a commissioner from Henipin County and they weren't even giving a number on what that was going to charge or cost their county. It's going to be in the multi-millions. Thank you, Commissioner F. Our number is 400,000 as as Dave mentioned. [snorts] >> Well, and I'll add um I don't think county commissioners qualify. You will get to pay, but uh we we don't get to use it. We won't be using it. >> So, I think that's an indicator of rushed legislation. Mr. share and I I again just like with this these other issues I don't see that changing. It's certainly not not for 20 26. So it's built into the the payroll tax and uh we're not only paying that our employees are. We negotiated that in good faith but definitely a very blatant obvious cost shift. And what we don't have in here is the the other ramifications of folks leaving, right? And not that we don't support good leave time, right? >> Which is, you know, back to that stock item that's in part >> trying to trying to buffer some of the other impacts that are on the way. Time will tell and we'll we'll report back on that. >> And then, Mr. Chair, to your point about county commissioners, you're talking about elected officials, correct? >> Correct. Yeah. >> Okay. or looking quizzically but yes in >> my plan to take 20 weeks off away from you guys not going to happen [laughter] >> we would we would miss you how about the four day work week taking Tuesdays off [laughter] >> you couldn't survive without us that long >> you're right >> all right Mr. Sure. So that's that's a high level overview of the operating budget challenges that uh we are we are aware of and managing and >> [clears throat] >> uh we'll focus on u over the next couple years. Um and here's the uh chart that I mentioned in terms of the FTE requests by department. Uh you can see that the majority are in the next two years in uh 2027 uh and 2028. uh with the library being uh kind of on the far right there. That's the Chaza Library. And you can see it spread uh throughout um the the various departments. This is the chart that shows that uh county FDs per 10,000 residents and uh using the Met Council uh projections for our estimated in future population. And the the u you can see the the red is actually in the budget. Um the blue is the actual and then yellow is what the division directors requested. You can see that kind of goes up for a couple years then it goes down a little more more dramatically and then had Mary Kay just do a straight line average if we smooth that out. Uh what you would those requests if we if we could find the funding for them which would be is a whole another challenge but um you could see that that would continue that line down. um on this chart of uh the FTS per thousand. >> Dave, can you give us a little background on the per 10,000 number? Why isn't it per 1500 residents or per 750 residents, for example? >> Um I'm not sure the the history of that. It's just kind of a standard number of per thousand residents. Um I'm not sure where um where we picked it up from, but that became it's what a lot of a lot of counties use. is kind of the typical uh a typical calculation. So, uh we just we following that as well. >> Mr. Chair, I can add to that. Uh it's it's uh goes quite a few years back. It's a pretty common benchmark as Dave had mentioned between the various counties. I think sometimes uh various groups like Mike or others try and put it together. I would I would say it's a benchmark. It's just one indicator, right? Uh you gota be careful how you read into any benchmark. This one in particular, for example, if we have have uh things happen like our our crisis team for example outsourced, there's a big impact, right? That doesn't mean that the the service goes away. You still pay for it. So, uh that that's pretty important to read into here. And it's very difficult to compare county to county. We don't for like keep bringing up pen for some reason. We don't uh run a hospital, right? Uh some some counties across the state run hospitals. We don't. So be cautious with this. Uh >> but it is it's a good benchmark. It's a good look at the organization and trying to keep up because we are about these services and that it there is this direct correlation between services in our population. Uh so that kind of wraps up the operating side. Now switching to the um the capital side, I mentioned the 5-year facilities, vehicles and equipment replacement schedule. uh the $2.1 million levy dollars are going into that for uh 2026. Um and that allows us to have a plan orderly, flexible, organized. I really love this schedule. You can see I tried to add every positive word I could think of that helps us um uh keep everything organized in terms of all the things we can think of that we need to replace in the next five years. the one change uh that we're recommending for the future for 2027 uh through 2031. In the past, we've increased that $100,000 increase is what we've been planning into. Uh that was part of our long-term financial plan uh to add $100,000 to that equipment replacement schedule. Um we have our uh Shelby and and public works. He manages all of the vehicle uh and equipment replacement um throughout throughout the county with the exception of the sheriff's office. Um but all those are are he's watching those. He's tracking those and there was a significant increase in prices last um during COVID in the last couple years. So 20 to 40% he's mentioning um and so there's a request to increase the 100,000 to be 150,000 um starting in 2027 and do that 50 150,000 then for those next five years. That would raise 250,000 by uh in 2031 budget. Um there's also some additional one-time attachment e requests that he's working on uh that'll be out there, but we're he's trying to get the um uh our vehicle age industry standards because of those costs. He's not been able to replace thing as much each year and we're starting to fall behind a little bit. So um that's you know and and that's our uh non-binding assertion of future intent. Our intent is to request $150,000 increase rather than 100,000 in 2027. Obviously, county administrator and the board will decide if if if that's justified or not. But in terms of planning, we're looking at a increase in that uh levy increase into this facilities, vehicles, and equipment replacement schedule uh by the 50,000. You can see this is uh Shelby's chart just showing the various types of equipment uh with the Carva County average um uh being in blue and then our recommended replacement age in red and then the proposed where he's focused in 2026. Um so you can see you know various things we're we're doing well on. Um and um he's just we're trying to keep track of that, making sure that we're um keeping things um close to the average industry standard, you know, where it makes sense. Then moving to our capital improvement plans, our CIPs, uh the Chaska Library, we mentioned that that's 2028 2029 grand opening. There's a $4 million one-time cost for the county to furnish that new library. That number just um always seems huge to me. Nick says it's legit, but you know, thinking of shelves and and books, how can it be that much? But uh that's the latest number. Um it's it's a it's something we've been aware of, but something that it kept it just kept moving. It kept getting pushed back, kept getting pushed back. So, we um I guess we never really got serious about finding uh the money for that. And now that now it continues to grow. Um but it seems like it's becoming a real thing. So, uh, we're going to have to start looking at the options and come up with the recommendation. You know, the two main sources of of funds would be the year- end savings. If we can save up for it, there's enough time to to do that and prioritize it. Um, Lyndon, you may recall, I mentioned this to the county administrator yesterday that um, this has happened in the past where it we had this large sucking sound. It was just money being pulled in. That's what Lynon used to do with the public works buildings. Now, we're going to hear that for this uh Chaza Library. $4 million is a big number. So, we're going to start pulling every dime, every nickel, everything we can towards this uh library. We've already set aside, I believe it was 500,000 or 400,000, some some uh numbers. So, they got some initial um to do startup costs and pre-esign and stuff, but now that it's becoming a a real project, we're going to have to focus on uh coming up with that um that amount of money. You know, like I said, we've done this before. you know, we have a priority. Um, this is happening. You know, we'll we'll find it. Um, year in saving or we potentially have to add it to our 20 28 bond sale for the government center building. Um, but we'll be we'll be focused on that. We'll come up with a recommendation um for ne probably likely next year. Um, in terms of how we should fund that um in terms of the in in that building miscellaneous CIP, uh, we also have some facility improvements. Uh, we're trying to some are big ones. We're trying to line those up with that uh the master space plan study. Obviously, we want to replace something if we're going to be tearing it down. Uh but there are things that that we need to uh keep uh maintaining and and keep replacing to keep the heat on or keep the heat coming and the lights on. Um so, we're managing that as well. And then we have two new um software requests. Uh one's in pay uh in patrol, [laughter] a big number um you know, three $400,000. and then also a new employee relations payroll software package at ballpark $400,000. So, we're working those into the plan. At this point, it looks like we got money for those things. Uh we should be okay moving things around, but just to uh let the board know that that's a ongoing thing that we're managing in terms of our buildings and and our other miscellaneous costs. Um the big one is the master space plan study. the our financing assumptions. You guys are well aware of this. The four $5.3 million debt service for $82 million project. We had 3.1 million levy available. So, we had a $2.2 million gap. The plan was to close that gap by le by increasing our levy 450,000 for five budget cycles. We did that in 2025. It's included in the administrator's recommendation for 26. Um so, we're on our way towards towards meeting that gap. And then um uh as I mentioned, Nick and and Cindy and Isaac have a presentation uh following the road and bridge um pres PowerPoint. >> Hey Dave, is there anything in our budget for um similar costs as we anticipate Victoria's growth and a replacement of a library in 20 years and then um seeing the dramatic growth west of here um button up to the property lines of Dogren Township um in orderly annex 2050 comp planning upon us. Is there anything in our budget to plan for the same for library um as city of Carver expands? >> Um that's really a Nick question, but I'll answer it for him. I I don't think so. >> Couple things though. The city of Carver um uh according to their ordinances can um cannot have a library. [snorts] Um they're too close to Chaza. And um I think I mentioned earlier uh this um comprehensive 30-year library plan. So that is something again that that we're going to start working on in 2026 so we can get a handle of library costs kind of going forward. >> Can I continue my question? Um the next one was is >> [clears throat] >> um standards within the library because it was attached to the liaison ship at Chesca. It sits in my within my district. Um sets a standard that uh if it's within six miles um there isn't need for a new library. But if you look at the address from the Chesca Library to Dogrin Township, the the golf course that's there, it's 6.2 miles. And so it's within a 10 or 20 year look that that would be um would be on the docket. And then typically when a city um and I'm sure Commissioner Anderson is aware of this, when a city exceeds 10,000 in population, that's about the time when they start considering um ownership of their own services, um a lot of them will see that they need a community center or a library or a DMV even. and all three of those things. Currently, the city of Carver uses CHAS as those services and there's a lot of arrangements and synergies and all those other things. But from a planning purpose, I know that we've done a great job in the last five years of looking at the replacement of the 600 building. That's why our friends from Leo are here today. Um we had 20 years deferred maintenance in the parks. We've we've addressed that in the last five years. I think as we're having um those conversations about library, Lisa and myself have been part of those conversations. I invited the conversation with the city of Chaska to do a quarterly check-in like Tom and I have done with Victoria for a while and that has been a conversation there as well. Um but as we're planning these are big dollars. We have $3 million plus um uh parking lots. Just recently we've started to talk about the potential replacement of the [clears throat] restrict center which is antiquated and old. Uh we really haven't addressed the sale of the Encore building which could create some liabilities with new roofs and buildings etc. And so a holistic view, I full fully support what Lisa's talking about and talking about a 30-year lookout for the libraries. Um, but if we're talking about 40 $4 million in today dollars, we have to look at that across the other cities, too, and and what the cost is, not just for them to build it, but for us to operate it and to maintain it and all the things that go with it. So, thank you. >> If I uh might interrupt again to Commissioner Anderson and her comments. So, you're going to a 30-year study. Oh, and is that space, but is there going to be room to discuss the the future of what a modern library looks like like Victoria? Uh, is this all going to be fleshed out? >> Well, I mean, again, we're just having we're just starting conversations um about this. Um, so yeah, I mean I think it's something that we need to have a conversation about on on what library look like, what what modern library looks like. Um um we Henipin County has uh 41 libraries in their system. They've they've done a lot of building and rebuilding and remodeling. Um they have a comprehensive plan. So we're kind of taking a look at that um just to kind of see starting point. Um, but I I think we need I think everything needs to be on the table and and to your point, how extended access looks into it, uh, or or how extended access impacts library usage um, as well. So, uh, and again, great conversations with the city of Chaza and they understand the budget constraints and I think we have a good partner with them uh, in the plan and um, so great grateful for their partnership and support. >> Thank you. >> Um, um, Mr. Chair, then the road and bridge CIP. Um Lynon's going to cover that in his PowerPoint. The region rail authority uh they Lynon's working on uh developing implemented pavement management plan and as well as a cost share policy uh for trails on the railroad corridors parks and trails CIP. Um go the goals for the CIP is steward they have three goals stewardship modernize and expand. Uh the good news is as Commissioner Rudman mentioned we have a solid plan for stewardship and modernization. The big question mark is expand is those buildings. Um you know we have have a few of them. What do we want to do with them? Uh what do we need? What where's the what's the future look like in terms of those uh buildings? That'll be the focus of the uh January February uh 2026 um PowerPoint presentation. A high level update. will focus on that building expansion. We'll give you an update on the stewardship and modernization pieces. Um the good news on that and then there are some additional requests living requests but they're pretty pretty reasonable. Um we should be able to fit those into in the in the over the next five years. Um so overall, you know, good story for stewardship and modernization, but we still expansion. There's a lot of questions, a lot of dollars, a lot of things we got to figure out with that. Um but it and mainly as Lendon mentioned will be if we find the money if we get the money from the state you know then we can then we can build those things. we don't get the money from the state, you know, then it becomes a a bigger question as to what what does the future look like? In terms of trails, the big news is 2.7 million annual trust funds, uh, annual trail funds, the TAA. Um, they have money. They there there's money now for trails. Um, so they need they need to prioritize. So that'll be part of the presentation as well, how they're going to prioritize, where does that money go first? Um, and then how do how do they move forward with that? Uh so that'll be coming uh first part of uh 2026. And just a reminder then uh about the budget calendar, you can see the uh work session today, the recommended [snorts] long-term uh 2027 long-term financial plan. And then uh tonight at 6 p.m. we'll have our public hearing and then we'll be back in the boardroom a week from today uh requesting board action of final 2026 levy budget and then the final 2027 long-term financial plan. Um so we will provide the resolutions and be uh looking for the uh board adoption of those at next week. Any any questions or further direction? >> Are we expecting to come in at 8% or has that changed any? >> That's still a recommendation. with that. London's turn. And then >> Lyndon, I like this time of the year when uh when uh the asphalt plants get ready to close and it makes projects get done. I >> Yes. been having fun uh talking about uh projects getting done including did we oversee the Galpin project in Chanhassen? That's Chance Chance project [clears throat] >> uh two-year deal done tomorrow apparently. I don't know if they got her done today, but uh anyway, good time of the year. >> Yeah, it is. And I appreciate traveling around sharing pictures for our completed projects. It's a big, beautiful county. >> We've done a lot of work this year, as you know. Anyway, looks like our system went dark. Mr. Chair, give us a minute. >> You want to take a break? >> Yeah, take a break. >> Yeah, >> we'll take a brief break and uh see you back here in a couple of minutes. >> This doesn't happen when Colin's running the show. >> No, >> Tanner lost the link. >> Yeah, you're paying 24%. next year. [laughter] >> I mean yesterday Okay, we're ready to roll. Put >> some more drone videos. >> We're good to go. Okay. Morning, Mr. Chair. >> Good morning, >> commissioners. Yeah. So, >> just uh quick thank you to everybody for 2025. It's quite a quite a year for us. >> You're welcome. This is a uh this is one of our highlight project photos of the 41 and 10 roundabout. [snorts] It's uh obviously a very large $32 million investment on anger total. So pretty [snorts] significant the amount of work that the contractor and our team accomplished in one year on this project. Ups and downs, right? But thanks to the cities and the public for their patience, of course. And then we have 82nd Street of course that we we finished on time as well. So [snorts] a bunch of other projects two overlays this year. The idea was to get ready for next year and the year after. So for 26 um you can see significant program 91 mil um obviously highway 5 is is the big project on the horizon. this point of work on the screen. Which one? This one. >> Obviously, that's a huge job right there that we just opened bids on. 98 million was our estimate. Came in at 86. So, that's great news. [snorts] Um, it's a little deceiving. We're not going to build all of this in 26. The north south roads basically got done in 26. The main highway 5 project um which includes a closure happens in 2027. >> Rolling acres in 26. >> Yes sir. >> Okay. >> What do we antic what do we attribute that big huge savings to? >> Really good timing on the >> Yeah. Good job. >> Yeah. I mean getting it done early before con you know before the winter is really important. Contractors are a little uncertain right now. If you remember the federal government passed the big under Biden administration IA funds huge increase in federal money but it's taken a long time to get those p that money through the system. So the bigger contracts are actually not that busy. So [snorts] um 494 is an exception the mega job in Bloomington but there aren't many huge projects out there. So we the timing was really good for us. And then with the the federal shutdown >> [clears throat] >> um that just got opened up, there was a window there where Mandot delayed all their own projects. So they're they're like a month behind on their letings. We just kept going. You know, you got to roll the dice. Hopefully the the uh the process works itself out, which it is. So it's just good timing. And I think so this is a big contractor that got this job. CS McCrossen out of Maple Grove. They are building the 494 job. So they they see a gap in time. There's another phase of 494 coming in in a couple years. So they see this as a good let's move from the big job they're doing now over to here and then hopefully we'll get the next one in on 494. They'll take it all the way to the airport. So um >> 610 is done. >> 610 is done and open. >> I don't know who did that but that's a biggie. >> Yeah, as I think but I'm not 100%. Yeah, there's a big, you know, Scott County is doing some big jobs. You know, change is a big one. Angel is doing. So, there are projects out there. >> Does the savings get retained by the county or some of that shared with the partners like Victoria? >> Yes, they everybody saves the local the local share. Everybody saves. I think Victoria's total cost is two and a half 2.75 total. >> Will that go down with the bid with >> That's with the bid. >> But the bid went down. So, >> it was closer to three or something. >> Yeah, it was closer to three. It's like 2.9. So they're at like 2.5. >> So will that 25 go down in light of the fact that we found what 12? >> No, just based on the way the numbers shake out. They've got utilities the you know the the s we haven't dialed into where the savings were. Was it dirt? Was it concrete? But it was just overall um great news. But um >> thank you. >> Like I mentioned then we got 212 of course that we're building now. That one does have a few things coming up. few issues that we we need to address with the soil correction there. So part of it is we need to figure out you know we we have some extra costs on 212 so the savings are good on highway 5 and our partnership with the state will help us get 212 done but that project is it's going okay but there's some soil correction issues by the bond guard swamp that need to be addressed. Uh, Lynon, quick one. You have uh 27 Major Rehab north of Watertown. Uh, when do you expect to go out and bid for that? >> Spring of next year. >> Okay. And then what about 30 between Mayor and Wakonia? I thought that was up for a major rehab this year. >> Yeah, that's in uh 27 right there. >> Okay. >> We'll talk about that one in a second. >> Yep. Yeah, it's been on the CIP for a while, but we haven't got to it because um you know with staffing shortages and stuff. We just hired a consultant on that one. It's coming to the next board meeting to get that one going. >> Okay. >> So, uh what else is on here? Some highlights here. The five and 11 project in Victoria. That's the roundabout. That one is a little delayed, so that will fall into next year as well. >> Lyndon, if I can. [clears throat] >> Uh that's a that's in my district. But I've been saying we're we're pretty much done. Correct. Except for the city now has to finish Steager and then next year the roundabout will also close Highway 5. >> That's right. >> And 11. >> Yeah. >> But we're kind of out of it for now. >> Well, it's that's a partnership project, but the city's leading it. So we we the pardon 11 that we just finished or that's our that's a separate project >> right >> happens to be the same contractor but they're separate contract separate contracts. So the city's doing the roundabout actually two roundabouts one at five and then the one at the new Steer Lake >> right >> or the new uh city entrance there that one they got some soil issues. Soil seems to be the common theme that they that one will be we couldn't get this roundabout done. We were hoping to get it done this fall. So that will be done uh early spring in time for the five jobs. >> Okay. >> Yeah. [snorts] So um highlight these pink dots on the map. It's kind of a cool project. That's an IT traffic signal improvement. We got some federal funds to improve our traffic signal cabinets, our capabilities. We can do the timing in our office so we can look at all of our traffic signals together. So that's a really nice job with some federal funds. Lyndon, just a couple of questions around NYA. The >> y >> the green is um county road 34 >> and I've shared with Shelby just the scheduling of that project with Stiffton's Fest. >> Yeah. >> In late August. And then also there's a district baseball tournament happening in August also. >> Yeah. >> At that young America ballpark. What is the the purple there project by others on 212? >> That's a mindot project on 212 where they're going to do a R cut a J turn as well as some road work on 212 itself. That's programmed uh in their CIP. Okay. >> Now, [snorts] that blue one, Commissioner Fay, in town on on 34 there, that's also >> that's a city-led project to modernize downtown. >> Correct. >> They got some earark earmark money for that. >> So, we're trying to get the whole corridor done at the same time. So, that's kind of a partnership. We're paying for some of that, too, of course. >> And I think just the communication will be critical as that rolls into >> I'll send you all my phone calls. Sounds good. So the green obviously a big overlay project on Highway 10 which is a very important road for us. We want to do that in 26 as well. That little blue piece on 90 that's a the south leg of 92. City is developing here a big residential development. So we're building a little piece of that road with the city next year. So [snorts] Mount Hope Road on 61. This is another development. And I'm sure you've seen a lot of grading out of mass grading on on 61 there. This is an intersection project we'll be doing with the [cough] city of Chaska next summer also. >> I thought that was closing for three weeks here in December. >> Oh, so it was closed. >> It was closed. It's open now. >> It's open now. That's a different That's a different intersection. >> Okay. >> Yeah. [snorts] See? Okay. Moving on. So yeah, just a quick update. We show this one every year. It just shows the county traditional revenue. This is revenue that comes to us from various sources every year. You can see the half cent sales tax. Uh 9.4 mil. Cass money, that's the fuel tax, tab fees. The transportation advancement account that Dave mentioned, that's a new funding source from 2023 that's kicking in now. 2.7 million of that goes to to roadways. 2.7 goes to active transportation that Dave mentioned that for the trails and then um about a million goes to transit. We've been working with Southwest Transit on to implement that. We'll be coming to the board next early next year on the transit plan on how we how we plan to uh use some of that transit funds. County levy of course that's 2.2 million wheelage tax and program 8. So these are traditional sources that come to us every year. So the levy makes up about 9% of that of that 26 million that goes into construction projects. Then on the other side, these are all the outside money that we get, the federal grants, state grants. Obviously, we we're pretty aggressive at at finding uh grants and uh then of course our city partners help help pay for our projects, too. 27 to 31, another big CIP, another big five years. You can see the whole county's covered. Uh I like to show the chart there that the county those traditional county sources make up every time it seems to be about the same every five years about 50%. And then every all the other monies are grants um and um it's the city partnership. So [snorts] 27, Commissioner Lynch, this is where this is where 30, if all goes well, will be will be built. So there'll be a rehab shoulder widening project. Obviously, Highway 5 is still under construction. I put 212 on here because that was supposed to open or be complete completely done in the fall of 26, but looks like it's going to go into the summer of 27 now. So that's still a project in 27. Um, the city of Waconia is doing a reconstruction of Highway 5 downtown Waconia. They've got just about all the money. They had the Fed the state bonding tour came out. They're asking for a little money there, but it's pretty much funded. Uh, let's see. The the dotted lines are resurfacing projects. Chaza, as you know, I mean, sorry, Carver has a huge housing development happening in the next five years. Three three plus thousand homes. So the first phase of that which will have an impact on our system especially county road 11 and county road 40. So the first phase there is for sure a roundabout at county road 11 and 40 but likely there'll be some reconstruction projects that are going to happen in the next five years [clears throat] along 11. So we we're doing a study with the city to figure that out. Lyndon, when it's included in [snorts] the major rehab with the shoulder widening, >> uh, is that complete tar then all the way? So, is it going to be more? >> Do you mean the >> pedestrian? >> The shoulder. Y >> Yeah. If >> pedestrian and also bicycles. >> Yeah. Generally, depending on the type of road, if it's a really we if it's part of the if it looks like it's part of our bike network, we'll do a wider shoulder depending on the traffic numbers. Sometimes the shoulder will be four feet wide paved, sometimes it'll be bigger, and then the remainder will be gravel. Just it really depends on the but I can get back to you on that one if you want to see that. So, uh, another big one obviously on 40 in San Fran Township. That's we we're trying to redo the the entire corridor 40. So, we have that one in in there. That's an interesting project segue. We're trying to do total digital plans on that one, which is a new a new thing in the industry that Carver Countyy's ahead of for most people. >> And that's from East Union to the current rehab that was done. >> Yes. 52 to 50. We just stopping short of 50 52. Commissioner Workman was at tab. That's the one we got the scope change because that last little piece before 50, we're probably going to realign it to join up to 43. And we we thought that would be 20 years out, but with this new development coming in in Carver, the traffic numbers are probably going to dictate that happening sooner than later. So that 40 job does have federal money. So we have to go to Met Council, three different committees to approve ending it at the bridge instead of at 50. The other thing is there's bumblebees there, there's a bald eagle's nest, there's a potential burial mound, and there's an exotic tree, butternut tree. >> That's the thing I couldn't remember. on that last little half mile piece. So it >> if we if we had included that in the federal job, it probably would never happen. So it was good that we that they approved us to cut it short. >> Lynon and Tab uh TAB staff did a really good job. I thought I was going to have [cough] to jump in with all four of those things. Uh yeah, because pe people scratch their head. Well, why you're cutting the project back? What about we cut the money back? >> Right. But, uh, this would be a good time to interject that for all those motorcycle riders out there, if you're wondering why your rides aren't as fun as they used to be, Lyndon is straightening out all these roads. All the fun >> you could have on a motor. >> Safety is a tough one at some time. >> Safe. Too safe. >> Yeah. >> Save five lives, though. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> 40 part down there was a really bad one. >> Dead man's curb. >> Yep. You got chastised on County Road 40. >> I did. >> But it was a beautiful road. It still is a beautiful road, but not as beautiful as big, beautiful road. 2028. So here, uh, you know, as you go out, like Dave mentioned in the long-term financial plan, things are more, you know, it's more um uncertain, if that's the right word. I mean, we're still planning for these projects, but they can move around in years. So this this is a uh year where we're you know highway the big mega jobs will be finished thank goodness but we have we're going to move our business hopefully to the county system and away from mind for a while. So the the big project that we're we're starting work on designing is this 11 and and highway 10 project. So that'll be a two-year project. You can see the county funds of 50 million. That's a big one. That's a lot of sales tax funds, but that also includes part of 10, the cash flow is kind of split in two years. Obviously, resurfacing in the dotted lines, bunch of bridges that we we kind of get pay as you go money from state bridge bonding. So, those float in schedule depending on when depending on when the state uh has bridge bonding available. These guys right here. Bunch of culvert. Big cvers. We do show Whoops. We do show a potential bridge replacement at 140. That's the one where the road is it's the the >> clearance is very low. So, uh we either want to remove the bridge or replace it. It might be removed and bring the road up to the grade of the of the uh railroad, but we've had that in our CIP for a while, but it's expensive. So until the bridge bond program is funded the legislature, we kind of wait and then we apply for the funding. So we've done really well in bridges, but it takes time to get that fund filled every uh every other year. >> And Lyndon, to that point on [snorts] uh 30 also 36, the bridge coming into that railroad bridge. >> Yes, sir. That one's in uh 20 2031 >> with those discussions with Dogren Township and >> Yeah. >> You're talking about the the one >> on 36? >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yeah. That's uh >> Wasn't that just going to get filled in? >> Yeah. But uh yeah, it's a fire department route, so it was we tried to we tried to do that. Um but I don't think that's possible. We got to regroup with the township and the city on that one >> because that bridge replace that's an $8 million structure. >> Isn't that a railroad bridge? >> Yeah. >> So to build a new one there is 8 million bucks. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Don't forget that's why we're pushing it. >> Yes. >> And if I could uh Lynon, you mentioned that sometimes traffic will take over. We've had discussions with the 92 extension um from Highway 5. There's been numerous accidents on Highway 5 and 92. So, that might uh hopefully we can get that one done pretty soon. But, and this is the 29 construction. That's the roundabout um on Highway 10. >> Yep. >> And then you mentioned you showed Cologne 284. Uh is the state actually going to reconstruct that road in 31? >> Yeah. Oh, we're going to 31 now. Okay. >> Yep. >> And then is that going to become a county road? >> Yes, >> it is. So, oh yeah. So, what'll happen is e, well, we haven't negotiated the agreement yet. What'll happen is either they'll they'll scope out the project, do a design and a cost estimate. They either give the county the money and we'll rebuild it or they'll build it and then we'll take it over. So, we we we got to work through that process, but it's been a long time coming. Yes, it is. >> You know, that road is not good. [snorts] >> So, we we've been trying to get them, but we don't want to lead it. We want them to do the work and then Anyway, um >> and I noticed in all the um charts that there's no real big improvements than on 212 going back to the east. And the reason I asked the question is because since that detour on 61, >> has there ever been talk about putting an on-ramp >> off of Big Woods Boulevard at that roundabout to get to go on 212 West? >> Yes. There has been discussion. >> In fact, that's a big priority for the city. So, that's gonna that's probably going to We just I just talked to Matt Clark actually last week on that. That's that'll probably enter the CIP. That's a high priority for Chasco to get that ramp those ramps completed. >> Yeah. Because they're putting that big woods industrial park. >> Yes. Big AU coming >> right at that intersection and there they shared that with us. >> Yep. So, we Great point, Commissioner. We're doing a big area subtransportation plan that includes Chaza, Victoria, and Carver just to see because there's huge stuff coming and they've all got these AU area. It's kind of a big it's an environmental review if you do a really large scale development. >> Yeah. >> So several of them have got these going on at once and we're like we got to get together and figure out what the transportation needs are going to be. So, we're kicking that off with the cities and that'll probably define future CIPs, what other projects are coming. >> Um, so, >> right, but it it's important for us to build that road infrastructure to support those industrial parks. >> Yeah. >> Just like supporting 212 for the NYA industrial park. >> What is the new off-ramp? >> Big Woods >> by Big Woods. If [clears throat] >> I could zoom in, I would. If you come up, it's the old Creek Road out of Chaza. >> Yeah. >> You go up um >> the old Creek Road that's closed. >> No, that's um it's either the Snake or the Creek or whatever. But where Hassic's farm is, you know, the Big Hassic original farm. Okay. >> That's Big Woods Boulevard now. And it runs into 140. >> There's a couple roundabouts up there. You can't get on to 212 going west. >> Yeah. >> That those roundabouts. You can go east. >> Oh. Oh. >> Crossing. >> Casar 44. The big interchange. >> I I helped that. >> Yep. Exactly. The WWW project. >> Yeah. Why don't you Yeah, the 5WS project. [laughter] >> But the ramps are only onedirectional. What? >> Yes. I'm very well. I was not happy. >> Complete the whole interchange. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's a big priority for Jasa. not sure how much county money they want. >> Lyn, before you move off that conversation, I know it's popped up a few times and um people talk about corridors of com commerce. Are we a part of that and and some of the me the mentions that Commissioner Fehee and Workman are talking about? Would that would that benefit from quarters of commerce potential funding to help accelerate some of that economic development down? >> Probably there is. You're talking about the MIDOT program, Cause of Commerce program. >> Are we members of that? Are we officially >> It's like it's a it's a it's not really a >> fund. It's not really it's a it's a more of a program plan for MIDOT. They call it uh >> TED and >> it's a grant program corridors of commerce through the state and uh we applied for highway 5 actually that next piece in Victoria and the leg it's very popular legislature because it's the only way to really get expansion projects built state highways so that but it's a grant program that's all I can say so you have to apply for grant funding and they're doing like project readiness funding right now to look at future projects so that counties or cities can get some funding for design [cough and clears throat] and you know that would be a potential one there would be to get some ask for some design money for that interchange completion. Sure. [snorts] >> You you guys are way ahead of me here. [laughter] >> Okay. >> Well, 284 is going to be interesting too because I know that we've talked about I mean there's two flavors. >> There's two flavors of 212, right? I call it the road to gold because we spent $300 million on it and it could leave billion dollars of tax base. But if you open up 284, that'll that'll make Cologne even more coveted once they get water and sewer capacity because you'll be able to access it from 212. >> 284 you talking about this green? >> So I look at >> that's not an expansion commissioner. That's just a rebuild. >> Rebuild or not? >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Rebuild or not? >> Be nicer. >> If it becomes a county road, it opens up things that are within our domain. Right. True. and and so it's smack dab into the middle of that of that road. And so it's coming whether we whether we plan for it or not. Hey, another question I had back to the $12 million of savings on Highway Five. [clears throat] And I don't I say I say savings loosely because I don't know which bucket it goes back to. Does some of it go back to the state? I'd anticipate some of it gets retained by us >> and um um a good amount of the my constituent base bumps up against the road on 14. So I'm wondering if this is an opportunity for us to accelerate that intersection. It's going to be a it's going to be a mess. But in front of Jonathan, I know Commissioner Anderson, myself, City of Chaza, you guys have had conversations, but given that savings, is there any way that we can pull ahead the design and build of potentially addressing that that that uh spot from 41 all the way over to the roundabout on 41 or 14, I mean, Pioneer. >> Oh, yeah. That's this green job here in uh 2031. Is there any way I mean it looks like >> Yeah, we've had >> after after the last three or four years it looks like you guys might be a little bit bored with only 40 $30 million projects a year. So is this a chance with with additional money with with a known need? >> Um and with >> Well, we've had that one earlier in our plan 28, but the city's not ready. They don't want to do it yet. >> I think they might be a little bit more ready now. >> Okay. Well, yeah. In the conversations, Commissioner Udman that I've had with them, they they um I I mean, we we can talk about it further, but we just recently had a conversation with them about this um as well. So, that's something that, you know, again, I'm not sure that they're um ready to move that up, but Lyndon, let's chat about that. >> I've been working with Darren Milky on that. Then the last question I had is it looks like $2 and half million dollars of contribution from levy to roads um in 2026. I don't know if it makes sense for us to pull back um some of those dollars. Um if if we're contributing 2.5 it's only 9% of the overall we're getting an abundance of money from state and federal. If it makes sense I mean a million and a half would be a 2% reduction of levy. I don't even know if it's a possibility but I know that we've got time between now and when we see the budget the next time. So >> yeah, we we talked about that at the during the budget um >> discretionary versus mandated y study >> and we did look at I don't know if you guys remember [cough] kind of dialing back our preservation program >> to eliminate one of our seal code cycles. >> Yeah. >> And that would have trimmed that back a little if you remember. We decided not to go there >> because you're kicking the can down the road >> that you got to give somewhere on the preservation side. Most of that 2.2 million goes to preservation. We don't use it. >> Okay. >> So, it's a tough one. >> Thank you. >> So, um Commissioner Lynch, the other roundabout you mentioned, I mean potential roundabout on Highway 5 and 92. We we put that in our program for 2031. Again, depending on the timing, that may or may not be um soon enough. Uh we did do a crash crash analysis on that one. based on the the crash last week, there's been 12 crashes there over the last 5 years, which believe it or not is not unusual if you look at a similar type of intersection. So, it's not critical, but you know, there's a pattern coming, right? So, a proactive approach would be to accelerate, you know, that intersection there. So, we have popped it into the end of our CIP. >> Wonderful. [clears throat] I think that's uh another one that the city might want to accelerate. >> Yes. taking a lefty. >> They want to accelerate everything. Well, Chaza is a different they commissioner. I think what they these the angller job was a lot for Chaza, right? It's a huge project. So, they've got a lot going on in the southwest part of the city. So, they want to just be really strategic on when the next county highway has to come in because they pay, you know, 10 to 20%. And that's a big lift for them. So they want to be really strategic on when the next county road project's coming. >> Makes sense. >> Thanks. >> I was going to say a lefty [clears throat] off of 92 on the five east is a long wait. I don't sound like there's a lot of crashes, but it's a long it's like a super sized Minashta Parkway on the five trying to take a left. >> Oh yeah. >> And uh >> yeah, grow. They're growing. >> They're moving a lot faster. And just to the east of there that Donna France passed away. So she had that at the farm that barn just to the east of that intersection on five. So that's going to >> be sold to a developer. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. So quick [snorts] update commissioners on the sales tax. Remember the plan. This is our plan for 20 20 years. Green are are county projects and and red are trunk highways. So I know commissionman asked this a few meetings ago that we need to update the plan for the next cycle and we're doing that. We're starting to work on that quick cash flow just shows just for sales tax funding in and out. We show this one every year which which are the big projects are coming that use sales tax. So you can see we're here anglers here 25 26 is highway five highway five. Then we got the big I didn't really mention that big job on we're doing this project on highway on angler you know this is one we're starting design on that's a big project coming in 20 28 29 so you'll see that one on the chart there um there's a little dip again don't don't get too concerned about the the negative negative sales tax that bounces back and this is just a snapshot in time on on our on our program. So overall, we're in really good shape to um in the program. This gives an update on the status of our sales tax implementation plan. So anything that's green means we're either we're either done. You can see the dark green, we got significant projects that are either complete or under construction. So huge uh huge win there. And then the the green, the light green are short-term. They're in the CIP. So they're coming. So the the remaining ones that are that are out there are the ones in um in in orange. So there's nothing in the long term anymore. So we'll be done by before 2035 I would think. And that gives you a kind of a snapshot. Our total investment just on projects that use sales tax is about 630 million and the sales tax portion is 153. So you can see the return on the investment is enormous on those projects. And overall, this goes to Dave's this is a just a cash flow chart that I keep just goes to Dave's point on the on the road and bridge. This is the whole road and bridge fund. So, um obviously this is the ideal world is if you spend money and collect it in the same year where you'd be at and so focus on the light blue that's the actual cash at the end of the year. So the problem is is with the with the claiming process we have when the when the projects get so big keeping up with the revenue side's really difficult but what I'm trying to show here is we'll be okay it's just a matter of collecting the funds. So you can see there's a big a big in and out in 25 132 million of expenses we got to collect 156 in revenue. So, we're really ramping up our systems to try to get those bills sent to our partners every month so we can get bring the money in so we're not in this lag situation we've been in in 25. So, but this just kind of shows you the growth I mean the the cash flow over the years as we go through our program. So, >> and Lyndon, is that a staff issue in your department or is that in Dave's? >> It's not a staff issue. It's more of a process issue. We we're implementing some software that makes it easier, but you got the feds, you got the state, you got the cities. It's, you know, you got you send them bills. Um, people have turnover. We have turnover, they have turnover. New people come in, they want to know how how this process works. So, it's slowed down in all areas, but it's getting better. And we we're convincing our cities that as Dave mentioned, we used to bill them at the end of the project. And now we're trying to tell them we need the money, you know, at least once a month or once every two months. So we're trying to get in that cycle and they just got to come to terms with that, right? They want to pay they got to pay their bills every month as well. So but with the huge program we have in the in well this year and the next couple, we we've just got to be more on top of that. We got really good people in the office sending out the the bills, but it's it's a process. >> We just cash the checks. >> Okay. So, that that's it. >> It's all their paper. We cash it and invest. >> Yeah, that's all I had. >> Great job, Lyndon. Thank you, sir. >> Thank you, Lyndon. Great, great work. >> All right, seeing no more discussion. [laughter] >> All right. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair and commissioners. Uh, today I have with me, uh, Cindy and Isaac from Leo A Daily, and they're going to be doing the majority of the presentation today, uh, if not all of it. But, uh, I just want to make a couple points before we get started. Uh first is I know myself I always like to jump into the design phase right away and we have tiptoed into that but I just want to remind every we're still in the pre-esign phase. So things like uh what's our overall program? You know how many seats do we need for county staff, the size of the building and will that fit on our campus here? Uh understanding the setbacks and the parking requirements and all of that. Uh and of course the budget. So that's more the pre-esign phase. It's not, you know, where's Nick going to sit? Does he have to share an office with Dave? You know, how big is my pencil drawer? Like, that all comes later. Again, we're in that pre-esign phase. Uh, also just wanted to uh mention we do have the master space plan. I intentionally called this the government center pre-esign because this is one project that follows in that master space plan. uh we do have other priorities, other projects in that plan, but phase one is this project, but we're not forgetting that we have first street center and other priorities that are also out there as well. So with that, those are my two points I want to make and I will turn it over to Leo A. Daily. >> Morning, Mr. Chair, commissioners. Thank you for having us here today. Um, my name is Cindy McCclary as you know. Uh, I'm an architect with Leaway Daily. I run our Leeway Daily Office and our government civic and education practice nationally. I have with me good morning. My name is Isaac Carly. I'm a project manager with Leaway Daily. Uh, been working in public sector buildings for my entire career for 12 13 years. Um, and and yeah, it's been fun to be part of the team. >> Excellent. And Isaac's um strength that he brings to the table in addition to project management is uh engagement. And so at this stage in a pre-esign uh his skills are particularly valuable in terms of um kind of gently right poking at conversations about how big how big really how big really um and really getting uh some good valuable feedback uh to influence the [clears throat] overall project. So as Nick mentioned, this is uh one step in a larger sequence of events. And so just wanted to take a moment uh to remind um uh the commissioners but but also the sort of general public of the history uh that led us to this event. >> So over the course of a number of years uh back uh 10 plus years back there had been a series of space plan studies. One of which uh occurred pretty significantly yearly between uh 2008 and 2015 that was really looking at the parking lot crunch here at the campus. Um those studies were evaluating total campus needs and also total parking count needs. Um that planning study effort continued then every year or every two years or so uh for the subsequent uh series of years to update the evaluation of the parking need and the building space needs for all campus office space. So there was a study in 2017 2018 that the Leo Daily team did um that identified three potential uh phases for a project um evaluating all of the facilities. Uh we won't go into them in great detail but uh in a um capsule the evaluation identified that the uh former public safety facility had met its useful life. uh that the building adjacent to it uh lovingly referred to as the banana building um is a um low ROI facility. It has a single loaded corridor down the center that's extremely wide which makes for very narrow usable office space on either side. It's one story, no basement, no ability to expand um and sitting with a lot of green space around it. So a very low return on your space. And then this building that we're in here, uh, 602, um, has good solid bones, uh, so good infrastructure, uh, good exterior walls, um, uh, windows, things of that sort, um, but is, um, the the beneficiary of, uh, a good, uh, opportunity to, uh, do a little bit of a refresh and think of the campus overall. So, that space study identified three potential phases. Um, phase number one was move HHS offsite. Um part of that was because of the significant growth that HHS was seeing as a department and the burden of the additional parking that came with that growth. Um phase 1 A then was a backfill of 602 and phase two is a build a new government center west at some location. Um not at this location was initially a part of the original conversation. Uh in 2019 we did a space plan update. Uh I remind you 2019 was just before uh COVID. Um in that update we looked at alternatives to moving HHFS off site and alternatives to uh a second government center campus. Uh we looked at buying and renovating a number of sites. We looked at the real estate. We evaluate the potential of renovating those for for different purposes. um they tended to pencil out um generally speaking as as um uh a possible solution or a possible path forward. Um but it meant a bifurcated campus uh condition. 2020 was co 2021 we all came back again uh literally came back again uh with a new understanding of what work life looks like uh and hybrid work life looks like. So it gave us an opportunity to go back to the space need study again look at what hybrid work might do to impact uh our space and our space standards. It also uh began uh a pretty uh robust conversation that is continued through this pre-esign and that is what does the future of work look like? What does hybrid work look like? What does flexible work look like? Um and what ultimately does the physical space of office andor workstation look like? Um, and it's reduction of some square footages. It's the trading of amenity space for office space. It's the sharing uh of underutilized spaces, things of that sort. So 2024 then uh we picked up that master plan again, looked at it again. The difference between 2021 and 2024 um was significant philosophically. [cough] 2021 we were coming out of COVID. Uh we all worked from home. We all believe we worked from home reasonably well. Um but we were noticing that the public wanted people to come back. Um and so um uh as public started coming back for the paying of some bills or um uh uh inter uh interaction with their HHS stuff uh staff more in person than digitally. Um we were also seeing that that was making uh a change in our office space needs. So the 2021 numbers considered a fair amount of work from home hybrid work. the 2024 numbers then start to kind of regulate a little bit uh that that uh counter swing uh balance back with a significant emphasis still on work from home um but now finding kind of what what we anticipate to be the new norm in hybrid work moving forward. So the recommendations from that master plan was uh still a government center west as being the first uh recommendation. That could be an off-site government center rest or it could be the demolition of two buildings uh and the expansion on site here. That became the commissioner's direction to investigate the demolition of those two buildings on site and expansion here. Phase two then first street um and then phase three public works. So from that 2024 master plan, the recommendation was to move forward with a further pre-esign analysis of the phase one and the phase one only. So that's what we're going to present today. You remember all the history? >> Mhm. >> Okay. All right. So the county board motion 2024 approve the master plan phase one of the project. So again, phase one is looking only at this campus in particular, including the schedule, next steps, the uh development of planning committees, a projected budget of 82 million, and appoint a county commissioner, in this case, county commissioner Fehee. We appreciate your service to serve on the executive committee. So this is the culmination of uh that work. Do you want to walk through this quickly? So, we uh met a lot with staff, [clears throat] met a lot with um uh division directors. Um and that led us to uh trying to find a more optimized program for the project. So, um the new building was refined from 150,000 square feet in the 2024 study to 95,550, uh which is a 36% reduction in space. And again that a lot of that is really trying to narrow into what does hybrid uh look like and mean. So we met with all the division leaders. We tried to refine this program again thinking about what is the strategy in terms of how do you work um now and how do you want to work in the future. So this work this uh removes away from a onetoone seating focusing instead on flexible workspaces that are are really aligned with how people work. So we talked a lot about what is the purpose of coming into the office? what are the tasks that you're doing at home? And um trying to find spaces that uh we're building out in the office that can that can uh help collaboration and and allowing people to be together when they're together. Um, so this project proposes uh renovating uh the entire 602 building, renovating a portion of 604 in the basement um and then a new construction of a of a new building uh where 601 and 600 are currently. And this is just a very schematic uh block diagram to just show sort of sizes on the site. And you can also see that uh parking would be arrang rearranged as part of this process as well. >> And and one piece on this just to share uh uh because it's in light text and so want to just point your eye to it. Um the difference between a space planning study and a pre-esign study. Space planning study we're working with theoreticals, right? We're we're um we're at a high sort of 100,000 ft. We're talking about square footage space uh general sort of operations. When we get to this pre-esign level, we are putting that physical building on a site. And so now we're starting to evaluate campus setbacks, jurisdictional reviews, any other authorities that might have jurisdiction and may influence the project cost, development size, etc. One of those um was the uh courthouse lake and the setbacks of course Lake. So, this was a new piece that was identified and learned through this process that there is a setback to the courthouse lake that will influence the location of this building primarily because your current building um penetrates that boundary um currently. And so with the removal of that building, we've got a conversation to open up about how do we manage and mitigate that edge. And so we've placed this new construction footprint that we're suggesting here to be within uh the county portion uh respecting the boundary in all instances possible um and have one location where we are matching existing conditions. So there'll be some conversation as we move forward as there is in any project uh with the jurisdictions in this case DNR watershed city of Chaska and of course the county um on the mitigation of the protection of that boundary on the courthouse lake boundary. Um, it's an amenity that the staff uh talked about often in the engagement effort, wanting to make sure that we maintain that amenity, that we beautify that amenity, that we continue to remain, uh, connected to that amenity and and allow the, um, community some connection to that amenity as well. And so, um, uh, we've created a concept here preliminarily that respects that. Um, we're also showing a dash line of the area of the boundary of extents of where we're addressing parking. Um, as the project moves forward, we we may choose to address additional parking or additional uh Linda's not here anymore, but uh asphalt overlay or other things. Um, but at the moment, uh, we're addressing the parking that is going to be specifically pertinent to the area of um, of uh, impact. We also perform an outside cost estimate. Um this has been a particularly challenging year, in fact a particularly challenging four years for construction cost estimates. Um and so the effort that we used here is very similar to the effort we used in 2024, which is to go to an out of house cost estimator specifically that does nothing but uh estimate construction costs. They look at a variety of different conditions. Uh they look at a real-time bid analysis and what's coming in. Uh they look at their own database um and their own database of uh of past bids awarded [clears throat] and otherwise. uh and they're pulling data from that. They're also um talking with trades often to understand what impacts are on the horizon that the past data isn't showing us. Um uh one thing to keep in mind um uh with construction cost estimates is they're always programmed to the dollar in which it the day in which it occurs. And so uh Lyndon made some um uh comments earlier about getting some good bids this summer. That's fantastic. That's a past data metric. We take that into consideration as we're planning for pre-esigns and things of that. We are looking for a future data number. And so that's where there's a little bit of science and a little bit of magic that comes in uh to play by taking uh past data and then talking to the market understanding what the conditions are influencing in order to project some future dollar impact. So in this instance um we are looking at a total planned square footage of 125,000. So that's new construction plus renovation plus a little bit of 604. The estimated construction cost for that is $65.3 construction cost. Uh we're going to talk a little bit more about the additional costs that come with a project. There's a fair amount of them um including you know furniture, design fees, permitting um technology, cabling, TV monitors, things of those kinds of things um that we'll address. uh but wanted to share a little bit about uh the Rockwise estimate and how we arrive at that when we're doing future predictive planning based on back data and then current data uh which is um subjective uh but important. Uh so as the numbers break down um we pulled it into five different categories just for the purposes of being able to compare and correct contrast to other projects. Uh use that back data future data kind of predicting uh the demolition of 600 601 uh demolition tends to be uh a little bit more economical if you if you will. Um but they um have the ability to to break out this project in a couple different contracting bids. And that's why we wanted to separate the demolition from the new construction as a consideration uh to give us some time or space to be able to either contract uh each of those two efforts number one and number two separately um or the potential to bring them together and when we bring them together we will see some cost savings. We always we always do when we bring them together our initial cost is assuming that we'll bring them together. New construction of the office building is about 52 million. uh heavy renovation of this building uh is about six million [clears throat] 6.6 uh light remodel of some space in the lower level of 604 is about 1.9 and then the site development costs are 2.2 2. So just to unpack that a little bit just so we know uh when I'm talking about light renovation mid renovation uh significant what does that mean the demolition of 6601 we do have um independent mechanical electrical systems for those two buildings there's some crossover with this building however uh from technology cabling data cabling things of that sort and so in order to demolish to to demolish those two there's some short-term remedial work that needs to happen to reroute uh some infrastructure in this building to accommodate that and allow this to stay up and running while that occurs. Um when >> does uh the renovation include this room? >> The renovation includes this room. It may or may not be for this purpose. >> We might move the boardroom. >> You might move the boardroom. Yeah. One of the goals initially in the space plan was if possible uh to look at an opportunity to put the boardroom in a position where you can secure the rest of the building from general public access. for instance is when the board's room is used in evenings for say for example when the rest of the building is shut down. Um right now that's not something that you have without monitoring activity in the hallway and things of that sort. So that could be done by way of putting the commission room on the first floor. It could be done by way of just organizing stairs, elevators, cart access doors to be able to monitor um that movement. But but that's one of the goals of the master plan is to look at providing some after hours improved [laughter] security here that doesn't rely on visual monitoring that can rely on infrastructure and technology. Uh the new construction of a civic building um a couple of the assumptions in this one that we wanted to make clear. We're assuming because it's on a campus that it's going to be consistent with the campus materials and aesthetic of this campus. So there's a large reliance on uh Chaska brick and the yellow tone brick. There's actually two tones of brick on this campus. There's some use of pre-cast, some use of stone, some use of metal. We we're anticipating very similar architectural aesthetic and materials uh for the new construction building. We're also assuming conventional MEP systems. Um and we'll talk a little bit more about that, but conventional MEP systems are conventional for an office building. Um, one of the things we're seeing in the marketplace is that, uh, counties and cities are leveraging state legislative dollars, grant bond funding for their projects. Those grant bond funding, um, uh, allocations do come with a higher expectation for building energy performance, which has a very large impact on MEP systems at times. um uh for for sake of like specificity would require solar panels, could potentially require wind generation on site, would require 100% water retaining treatment on site, and likely would require some type of geothermal well system. All very very uh fantastic high performing building systems, but they do come with an additional cost. And so we've assumed that this would be conventional to uh the systems that you guys are already working which uh working with on campus which means your facilities directors will be able to sort of monitor, manage them, understand them etc. Um but we're um uh reflecting the aesthetic in a new contemporary way. >> Are you recommending or a place to recommend one of those options or the other the bond and bond and grant or the non? This this budget evaluation that we have right here is um anticipating county funded in entirety. >> Got it. >> Not state funded. >> If it is state funded, there is a higher threshold for energy savings and performance >> slower and more expensive >> which triggers solar panels and wind generation. Yes, >> we can still do solar panel but we don't have to do it under there. >> Correct. >> Yeah. Thanks. >> Correct. Yeah, it it is a um a stipulated requirement with those funds that you meet a particular energy per performance. Um you can choose to meet that energy performance on your own, but with those funds, it's a stipulated requirement that must happen. >> We are not I mean we're not getting into the details. We haven't gotten into the details of that specifically, but we we do have costs that reflect not having solar panels on there at the moment. >> Okay. >> Yep. I'm sensitive to what we did at Paradise Commons and we put um geothermal in in underneath. It's not lost on me that the it's a new skill set that you have to do. >> It's it's a new maintenance skill set. Absolutely. It is. Um and and what we're finding in some of the geothermal systems too, they're becoming particularly sophisticated. So is the digital monitoring of those. Yeah. >> Um and there are increased conversations about the cyber security access of that digital monitoring. And so it there is a a maintenance requirement, maintenance knowledge required for those more sophisticated systems. Um and then the heavy remodel of 602. Um uh this is um heavy but not heaviest if you will. So we're anticipating based upon our analysis that the exterior envelope of this building is in really solid shape. Your bricks in great shape. Uh your mortar's in great shape. Your windows are in great shape. Yes, we're going to be doing some work inside. And that inside work is going to be pretty significant. It will probably take down all walls, ceilings, floors, lighting, um um HVAC, those types of things. Reconfiguration of those floors. We will be addressing the elevator. We will be addressing the stairs. Um uh anytime we do a renovation of the scale, we're going to have to bring everything up to code, and the stairs are one of those. Uh we will be addressing the bathrooms [cough] and the quantity of toilet fixtures because that will be one of the things that will be triggered by code. So you can think of it from uh the inside uh in if you will is where the most significant work is. That's why we call it a heavy remodel. We're not going to be doing significant work to the exterior environment short of um uh some entryway improvements [clears throat] for um uh branding and and public access and things of that sort. And then the light remodel in 604, we're talking specifically the basement. Uh there's some underutilized spaces in that lower level basement. Um, uh, the print copy room is down there, it is down there, and there's some storage down there. And so we've got the ability to better utilize those spaces. Um, and so that's what this light remodel indicates. Um, that could be a part of the primary project. It could be done via a small and independent contractor at a later point in time. So some of these things can can occur in phases. Some of these things will be best served if they occur at once. Obviously, demolition, new building, best served if they occur at once. And then the site development costs. This seems large. It always seems large. Um we are anticipating because we've got uh courthouse lake on one side and we've got the creek on the other side. Um we are anticipating generally we've got a higher water table here. So we're going to be dealing with some type of site conditions. We don't know exactly what they are. We never uh ultimately do even when we do borings. And so we use estimated evaluations to understand what the site impact would be. And so we're seeing a slightly larger site development cost because we're anticipating we'll have some additional site needs at this campus location. >> Cindy, are you aware the city dump used to be back here? >> I I have certainly heard those rumors over and over and over again. We have not had any engineering analysis to affirm the extent of that or >> not not a rumor. >> I I was there often um [laughter] >> with my dad. Uh but they did have some methane issues uh in this end of the building or some of the building and the we had a little leakage. I don't know I don't know the extent of the cleanup back there. >> I don't think we we we were uh we were concerned that there might be some methane there uh >> where we put the existing expansion of the current parking lot back there and kept an eye that they'd like the fact that we capped it actually. >> Yeah, they would. I think the issue with the going further to the kind of east [clears throat] uh there's a flood area there and meeting the requirements of that but I think that the concept of putting a cap over a dump is actually a good one. >> Yeah. Yep. That's yeah it it's um uh a recommended strategy to encapsulate in fact as opposed to remove. We remove only if we have to remove but encapsulating generally becomes the strategy. So I think one of the things to to keep in mind and you are talking the far end of the site or are you talking this end of the site? >> The far end of the site. Okay. One of the things to keep in mind then is and and we'll get to it when we get to to soft costs. Um um but is to consider conducting an engineering analysis that can evaluate the depth of that condition so that we can more accurately budget for it. So there are ways that we can do that. Soil borings and geotech reports are best way of doing it. They literally drill down a hole. They'd let you know what they pull out, right? And we can make some evaluations in terms of how deep that debris goes. We can also run water tests, perk tests, uh, radon tests, things of that sort, and also understand what's happening below grade. >> Do your estimates change based on that knowledge or is it already generally worked into your >> We we're doing we're doing very uh we're doing no demolition to that side of the site. Um and so there is an indication of some parking over on that side of the site and so that we would be encapsulating any further uh uh activity that occurs there, but we're not doing any soil removal currently within the scope. So no, we're not anticipating cost. >> This the city wanted us to use that as a proof of parking and they they they sort of indicated that that could be something that would not need to be built um so long as parking was meeting what the county needed for the space right now. But just showing that that could happen in the future. >> Thanks. Yeah. >> Why'd you bring it up then? >> Okay. So, um we had mentioned the construction cost and there's a whole bunch of other things that make a building happen. Um so, the 65.3 million is the construction cost as we have it uh identified. Uh the next chunk of money is what we call soft costs. The soft costs tend to be anywhere from 20 to 30% on top of the construction costs. There's a lot of variation in that 20 to 30%. We've run these numbers a few times. Um we can continue running these numbers but uh we believe we've got some good accuracy here. Um and so our uh allocated distribution of those costs are as follows about uh 1 million in owner's costs. So owner's costs could be a variety of different things but generally speaking it's like the environmental assessment. Um uh it could be if you conduct any public engagement efforts, sometimes PR efforts, those kinds of things would be considered owner's costs in support of a project. uh generally want to make sure that there's funds there for those kinds of activities. Um there are design fees that's structural, mechanical, electrical, landscape, civil engineering, architecture, sometimes commissioning, a variety of other uh fees that go into that. If we need to have a transportation analysis for um uh uh confirmation of parking costs or uh transportation loads for new new curb cuts, things of that that all falls in that fee. Uh we've allocated about 5.2 uh 2 million for furniture. Um that's anticipating a couple different things. Um it's anticipating all new furniture for the new portion of the building. It's also anticipating that we've got some really great furniture to work with already within the 602 building or other areas of campus. And so it would be an evaluation of which of that furniture is at the level that it could be considered to be um have remaining useful life. It's clean. It's uh aesthetically pleasing. It it functions. All those kinds of good things. There's some reuse to it. Um but it's anticipating predominantly new furniture in the in the new building or or or however that gets uh [snorts] filtered between the new building and 602. Uh we've also identified 3.9 million in technology. Um there are two or three places in which technology costs fall in the project. Um there are some technology costs that fall in the building construction. Those are technologies that are literally fall within the walls, if you will. These technology costs are are are things that fall on top of the walls or on top of the desks, monitors, TVs, cameras, things of that sort. Generally, stuff in the walls include our data, our IT, our our uh cabling, um our card access controls, you know, those types of things. Um, as we get a little bit closer here, we'll want to work with the the county um IT team to evaluate what they think they're going to need for their data center. uh ensuring that they've got enough evaluation of of their costs as it relates to switches, uh backbone data, um banks, things of that sort. Um but we're anticipating 3.9 million for that loose technology, if you will. Um and then 1 million in owner operational costs. And these operational costs are effectively move management costs. We anticipate there might be uh a scenario where um during the a period of time the folks that are currently residing in that building may shift into this building and people in this building may shift to full-time work from home or uh you know uh a oneto four kind of scenario where where they hot seat here one day a week and they're at home four days a week or we might be looking at scenarios where there's a temporary leaseold space or you put them in some other location. Either way there's costs to make some of those moves happen. Um, and so that's what this $1 million allocation for is to make sure that there's [clears throat] money in the budget to enable those kinds of moves to occur. Does that make sense? So that gets us to a total projected cost of 81.7 million in 2028. Um, a couple of things that we're seeing, we are seeing high escalation dollars um outside of the general cost of um uh or or the general um escalation we're seeing in the marketplace. So even though the Fed says, "Hey, you know, we're seeing interest rates and and the cost of inflation at, you know, 2.9% to 3.2 and we really want to see it under three," we are seeing in construction costs anywhere from six to 16%. It's pretty significant. Uh, a lot of that is labor. Um, we heard your presentation as well about the rising health care costs and um, uh, other kinds of conditions that are affecting labor. They're affecting contractors as well. We're seeing uh, big swings in that instance. Um, and then of course there's uh tariffs and uh data centers and other things that are putting pressure on certain elements of uh building construction. And so when we say it's 2028, that's a little bit predictive of where we think we're going to be. If 2028 becomes 2029, we're going to see that number go out uh go up as the time goes out. So I want to just make sure that we're um making sure that we're quoting accurate dollars and dates. Those things do matter. Do you know how many square footage how much square footage or what percentage of the project would be um furnished with new versus keep the old? I'm just trying to connect my dots to what was shared in the previous presentation. About $4 million to furnish the library. Yep. >> I'd anticipate that this square footage is five, six, maybe 10 times more than that square footage. So, I'm just trying to pull those two pieces together. >> Yep. Yep. So, we've got about 95,000 square feet of new [clears throat] um the difference because we do a lot of libraries. The difference between library furniture and office furniture is radical. Um, one of the things pushing on library furniture is metal shelving. Uh, especially because there are um, Americanmade steel requirements and a variety of different things. All good ultimately, but um, cost of steel shelving within libraries are significantly large. Um, most of those libraries have uh, wood end panels on on each of those shelves, right? Uh, it's custom mill work. it generally might come with a a really nice uh wood uh species or finish. Those tend to be higher price uh goods. Um obviously there's transaction tops and things of that sort that that are quite similar. Um we're talking office furnishings. And so when we look at these two things, there is a difference in the type of furnishing of a library versus the type of furnishing of an office. >> Yeah. Okay. [clears throat] And and also I want to add in the library world um is a sorting machine >> um [laughter] which uh is we only have one of those in one of our libraries um so so that's another huge cost that would would go into libraries. >> Yeah, those those uh um automated retrieval sorting uh systems for libraries could be anywhere from a 100,000 to 500,000 per single unit. Like they're they're monstrous. Do we have one of those machines in Wacon? I know we have one in Chan. Do we have one in Waconia? >> Just Okay. >> Just happen, right? >> The library cost includes books collection. It includes technology. So computer, >> can you step up to the mic, Nick? >> Yep. >> I was just saying that also includes opening day collection, so the books that we're going to have in the library. It includes technology. Um, so the computers, things like that. So it's beyond furniture and that cost. Are is the collection sp I don't [cough and clears throat] want to go too down the tangent but um is the collection gonna move from existing library to new library or is it starting from scratch dollar zero? >> Uh we'll try to move over as much as we can. >> Thanks. >> We'll probably weed the collection. That'll be good opportunity to kind of go through it. Y >> but anything that's good we'll we'll move over. >> Got it. Thanks. Are we using you guys for library or are they cha engaged with you on that? >> Uh they're not but I certainly would love to talk to them about it. So that >> not my domain. >> All right. >> Well, thank you for that. That's that's one thing that we're we're talking about with CHAS is is having a shared architect. That will save a ton of uh taxpayer dollars. So, there'll be an RFP coming up for that. >> Absolutely. Well, we'll we'll we'll talk about that. I'll be pleased to talk to you about that. Um a couple of those other library things, too, that we do see even when you bring over um uh existing collections. Um is new dust covers on the books. Old dust covers on new shelves tend to not make the public feel very happy. they walk in and go, "Well, I thought we got a brand new library and these look like shabby materials." So, it's usually the new plastic dust cover. It's the new CD case or on an old CD. You know, those are things that just make a new library feel fresh. So, um I'm sure you're anticipating those. >> CDs, CDs, [laughter] >> DVDs, VHS's DVX. Yeah, >> they're Yeah, I know they're going the direction of micro fish, but >> um Okay. Uh so we've talked about a lot of this and this is just a lot of a lot more words. So um I'll I'll stick to the kind of um important points. So the new government center we're looking at about 95,000 square feet. Um I've talked to you generally speaking about conventional system. So uh steel frame concrete foundation uh chica brick combination metal panel ultimately trying to match the aesthetic of the campus and give it a continued campus feel. Uh the renovation of these two buildings again, gut remodel, refresh on the inside, uh lighting finishes, limited layout changes. That's in some buildings like 604. We're not going to change the primary corridor. We're going to try and take advantage of where some of those walls are, things of that sort. Up here, you're going to see some um uh more extensive layout changes. Building systems, we're looking at conventional high efficiency MEP systems. Um at the moment, we're not anticipating solar or geothermal. Uh that's as much as you can give an apples to apples to other projects. Site development we talked about um includes some allowances for soil and storm water unknowns on the end of the site that we are working on. Um schedule we're looking at uh or recommending a single bid package for demolition and new construction. We looked at it both ways. Um ultimately when we do a separate bid package for a demolition and a separate bid package for construction, it does two things. Um one the demolition package tends to get a little bit smaller. You tend to get smaller contractors. tend to get a wider bench of contractors. That's fantastic. But they come in, they put up a fence, they mobilize, they put up uh their job site trailer, they do the demolition, then they got to fill the hole, then they got to take all that stuff down, and they got to leave. And then we issue a bid for the new construction, and they do the same thing. They put up a fence, they put up a job site sign, they start digging that hole back out again. So, when we put those two things together, it does become a larger project. Um, so we're looking at a single bid package for those two pieces. We can talk about what happens with 602 and 604 might be opportunities for smaller bit construction uh and smaller contractor availability. Um contingencies within the number at this stage we do have contingencies. So we've got a 10% design contingency and a 5% construction contingencies. Those are extremely common. They are industry standard. You're going to get them from every single architect. What they are um is there just a lot of things that we don't have identified now. We haven't even gotten to the design phase yet. And so we know that they're going to be choices that we're going to make at some point in time. We might be thinking maple and you know, Commissioner Fee is like, "Nope, it's got to be cherry." Right? Those are the kinds of conversations we haven't had a chance to have yet. We know that we're going to have them and therefore um there's going to be some contingency in there to enable us to have those kinds of conversations. Um but that's included in there. And then of course it's got to be a c a durable high quality 50-year civic building uh with longevity efficiency um and consistent with your county standards which includes um some continuity for your facilities team to be able to manage the campus as a whole. Okay. Um schedule this is a this is a little blurry. We could provide a print out um if so if so be um thank you very much. Um ultimately the next phases of the schedule are the important part. Um after we get uh this work um session kind of conversation going with you all. Um we're going to bring the final recommendation for this pre-esign back to all staff and committees in January. Um we're suggesting a potential construction manager on this project. Construction manager at risk is a um procurement method that is quite common. um [clears throat] uh tends to get uh a more sophisticated contractor and with the moving parts between demo and new construction uh and the connection with 602 we think that's the um uh the right procurement path for you optimally that construction manager is selected um at or around the same time you begin the design process. So that construction manager is providing feedback and uh cost estimation through the design [cough] efforts. [clears throat] uh we'd be looking at demolition of 601 um in uh 2027. Uh we'd be looking at the new building construction in January 2028. Um currently this project schedule um does give us a little bit of breathing room between now and 2028 uh to enable uh decisions, design conversations, public engagement, those kinds of things that need to happen. It's also uh trying to be tailored to um uh Dave Freshman's evaluation of debt service and so that we're releasing bids at a period of time um when uh debt becomes uh more available. It can move tighter. It can move up if there's a desire to do that, but again it would be contingent on the debt service and debt availability. Um so, uh long story short, that is the schedule. Sh more you want to share there? I think we're getting in the weeds if we do >> nice pretty picture of the same thing. >> I have a question on the schedule, Mr. Chair. So, have you I think about logistics and just it's going to be difficult, right? Moving folks out all the >> construction. Have we looked at doing everything at once and including this building and is there >> is there are there other beyond logistics are there other significant advantages? there would be significant advantages to do it at once in uh in dollars and cents in terms of you've got one contractor mobilizing one site, they put a fence around the entire thing. It's all in their command and control. So, if they needed to move trades around in order to be more effective and efficient, they can do that when they've got the entire campus available to them or this side of the campus available for them to do that. So you would get some efficiency as it relates to that because every time you do a separate bid, it's a separate contractor mobilizing, setting up their field office, running their power, data, phone, etc., right? Doing their work and then demobilizing all that stuff. So you're paying for the mobilizing, demobilizing on both sides every time you have a separate bid. The downside and and what we'll have to uh run the numbers on if you guys choose to do this um would be right now it's phased in a way to allow the phased release of of debt service dollars. So demo new construction will come at one chunk of time. You can come back and do 602 at a separate chunk of time. You can come back and do 604 at a third chunk of time. If we push it all together, we will see a savings in terms of one contractor. um because of the debt service piece, we may see it push out by a handful of months and so we'll see a little bit of escalation at but we can run that analysis if you want to. >> To me, Mr. Chair, it seems like we should run the run those numbers uh you know as I think well we have to find this other space number one and Nick's been out and >> right >> surprisingly tight in terms of what's available. We know of Oakidge and some other things may right and there's timing elements but it's also to me about the service to the public and disruption. >> Almost feels like it'd be nicer just to do the pull all the teeth at once here and you know get it over with >> and have a clear clear communications program with Yeah, we we've all moved right except for the justice site. >> But we can run that and see if see if there's maybe some savings there. Okay. >> And Commissioner uh Workman, Chair Workman, um kind of piggybacking along with that, um Administrator Hemsy, where do we have costs related to where people will work? And if we do split this out, are are people able to work in the other parts of the buildings that aren't being worked on? >> Well, that's that's the issue. Uh Mr. Chair, Mr. Anderson, where these folks go, we don't really have additional spaces we can just plug them into. So, >> right, >> I think we're going to have to lease some space >> and if we did it all at once, it'd be bigger space, >> right? >> Right. >> But there I'm presuming there's there's lease costs and built in >> to the contingency, etc. >> That's what this bottom line item is is operational is is lease. And you're going to have costs even if you don't lease, right? You're going to have cabling technology. You might have some IT infrastructure. They need to go there first to set up. >> So, there's cost. >> No. No, we don't. >> Could we move? >> Thank you for that clarification. >> Could we move over to the justice side and move the justice people out? We don't want to be all those attorneys. We could put them in a double wide. >> I thought you were talking about sleeping in the uh Yeah, >> we have a meeting with the judges at noon. If you want to [laughter] like that, >> you know, the judges have really big offices. I think we can double up in that. And >> see, I'm I'm trying to follow this two track. You had it on the screen. >> Uh >> the on the schedule. >> Yeah. I'm not following. So in January, next this coming January, we have E that E little E blue box. What's the What are we doing there? >> Engagement. >> Yeah. >> Engagement with the board with public with >> with the public. >> Public and staff. And that's that's the culmination of this pre-esign um is the engagement with the public and the staff. >> Okay. >> The the staff for what it's worth, the staff has been engaged through the process at varying levels predominantly at the level of the planning committee and so uh which is the division directors and and um uh their key staff individuals. They've done their own engagement within the departments themselves that are feeding that planning committee. Um we have had for HHS in particular a broader engagement effort because there are so many kind of moving parts in terms of those divisions. Um we've reviewed space and walked through space with every single department. So we walked through every office space, every finance space, every IT space. We've engaged staff in that way. This engagement is sort of culminating to let them know where we all where we've landed if you will in terms of the pre-esign. And then there's there's engagement noted in the design uh scope below. Uh that that is you know part of something we've heard from the county that they want to do. But then also Chaza has a has a requirement to do community engagement in order to uh prove uh prove the project in the neighborhood and uh that comes with some height considerations, some massing considerations and so we just wanted to build that in the project and just let you know that we know that that's coming and we need to plan for it. C Commissioner Workman or Chair Workman. Um also in the engagement process, I think it would be um it would behoove us to include the engagement of some of our other community leaders across the county. Um I know the city of Chanhasson did some um engagement work with their old building and um and and showed that around and and to help people understand the need for a new building. And I think that went a long ways in helping people understand um kind of why they were were doing this. So um if if that's something that we can do as well, I think that would be um helpful. >> Very good. >> Yeah. And I Isaac was just pointing out I mean there there is a good uh stage to have that engagement in early 2026 as we start to help the community understand what the action plan is and what the schedule might be and what it might look like. Um open houses are a great way to do that. Uh newsletters through utility billing and other kinds of things are great ways to do that. Um and that's just starting to kind of get the the juices flowing if you will. um the public engagement effort that that Isaac was mentioning specifically for the city that was because we were surrounded by some residential districts. Um and so the the height uh of those uh of this particular project will be of interest to those members. So that's a different type of engagement but but nonetheless uh one that we want to plan for. >> All right. Are you wrapped up? >> Are we last slide? We're last slide. Yeah. We always end on the really exciting part. >> We didn't land on numbers though. We landed on schedule. How about that? >> What was the exciting part again? [laughter] >> We all want to get to the exciting part, right? That's like when does the pencil start hitting the paper and start seeing what this looks like? >> Well, and I know that uh I'll speak for myself and maybe the rest of the board. I sure wish we didn't have to do this. Uh I don't I don't really want to spend all that money doing this. Thank you. you're doing a great job. Um Um I don't like to buy stuff I already have. >> Even though it's bad stuff. I had a garage door fail. What do you mean? I already got a garage door. I don't want to buy a new garage door. I already have one. But things fall apart and get old. And um but you know, I'm often uh associated with loving road construction projects. I didn't want a fourlane freeway to go through beautiful farmland and ponds and corn fields, but you need to. And so, um, I'm getting more used to the idea. I think the board is going to scrutinize everything and work hard to keep this affordable. I think we have a plan for the financing and uh but insurance companies, banks and government they doesn't matter the economy they are always building something and so with the taxpayer in mind I think we will we will stay on top of this. So, >> and and Commissioner if you if you don't mind um just because we did breeze through I you all know the history u but for anyone listening they may not know the history we breezed through the first 15 years of the evaluation of space needs uh [snorts] that that led us here. Um but but but you all know the public safety facility in particular is grossly underutilized. It's got holding cells that that are uh functioning as storage rooms. uh it's got square footage that um we can't find a real purposeful use for because of where it's located, the size, the configuration, things of that sort. Um and so you are the county is paying heating, cooling, maintenance costs on a building that's not producing a lot of ROI for you. And so um while it while it feels like um you know the garage door to garage door um scenario, uh I I I respect and appreciate that um I think this would not be a one for one in that particular instance. Um that's a that's an asset that's just not producing a lot of return for you all. So wanted to share that um it came out in our space need study earlier. I know you recall that of course um but the general public may not and so for that purpose it's the better utilization of that space and you are paying for maintenance and ongoing cost for a building you're not able to well utilize. >> Well, Nick is uh really good at giving a really rotten tour of that building. [laughter] Uh what's that smell? We don't know. Uh so but that's pretty pathetic over there. Uh Nick does a good job of the patheticness over there. And uh so but uh nonetheless I I I wish we could I know a lot of outer ring and smaller town uh counties will grab the now out of out of business Kmart building or something and they remodify a lot of that. Uh, I wish we could grab something, but uh, yeah, we'll see. When do we have to make a final decision? >> Well, uh, I'd like to hear a direction if you have any different. >> You saw the time frame. >> Yeah, >> we'll be proceeding ahead here with these various steps. >> I mean, we can we can make a final decision right before the back ho start ripping the place down. [laughter] Well, in in fairness, you've got multiple points where you could make a decision and have an off-ramp if you so choose. You know, as we're um completing the pre-esign here, I think the feedback that would be helpful for us today would be things like if we are grossly misaligned with your values, please let us know that, right? If we're grossly misaligned uh with understanding any of the space needs, please please let us know that. Um otherwise the feedback that we're looking for is an acceptance of the recommendation which would be um a square footage and a dollar value and a footprint on campus that we think you would need in order to achieve the space needs for the next 20 years. Um that recommendation would secure the completion of the pre-esign after we then uh review that with uh public engagement and others. You've got an off-ramp at that point if you so choose. um uh as you enter into the budgeting process and the planning process etc. Um it's not uncommon for our um our our cities to begin the design effort and recognize that you've got a second offramp, obviously anytime in the design effort, but you've got a second offramp uh before we release contracts for bid. And so we'd be coming back to you at that point in time and say new cost estimate, new evaluation, new square footage. Are you ready to proceed? So there are two or three like designated mandatory offramps in the process. Um, I think at this point it would be the um, uh, support of the recommendations made here, which is a 95,000 square foot building and an $82 million construction cost on this campus. >> Mr. Chair, are we paying sales tax on this materials? >> That law pass. >> That's that's a really that's a really good question. I think I got >> Yeah, there there there's a lot of nuances in here. Um, one of them is prevailing wage, which we talked about. The other one is uh sales tax and and exempt. Um we do have portions of the city that are required of of the um 7ount metro area that are um required to use prevailing wage. Prevailing wage sets a minimum requirement of uh payment of construction, labor and staff. Um what we find is that even though there's a um sections of the metropolitan area where that is required with the growth and development of this area and the scale of these projects, those prevailing wage contractors really work within the 10 county metro area. And though prevailing wage may not be inherently required, they may still be using those laborers and they may still be um uh employed in those locations that require that. So we are anticipating prevailing wage in these estimates. So, I want uh that piece of it to to be known. Um it is standard and customary for any contractor that would be working on a project at this scale. And we're talking folks like a a Mortonson and a Jed Don and a Canudson, a Krauss Anderson, RJM, ICS, um reputable contractors. Um for sales tax, there is an opportunity um for uh sales tax abatement on materials. Uh labor is not taxed. So on on materials in particular, um there are some stipulated like requirements that we have to go through. You have to provide your EIN number as a county and the contractor when they purchase those materials have to know that. So there's a lot of accounting on the back end. >> You can do it. 99% of our clients have the tendency not to do it. It's very paperwork intensive. Um but it but it's certainly a possibility for certain materials. >> Commissioner Pe. >> Yeah. Cindy and Isaac want to thank you for all the work that you've done and just being part of this committee has been I've learned a lot and I think you hit it right on the head Cindy when you started with your presentation about how big and really really how big. One of the exercises that we went through is we got to move these little building blocks around the campus on the map and we broke out into separate little groups [clears throat] and I think that really helped us to see, you know, how big is 90,000 square feet and if you turn it sideways or east to west or north to south and how that fits on the footprint. So that really helped us go down through the process and I personally do not think that you are at all misaligned with our values and and what our space needs are today. >> Commissioner, >> uh I think you said it well like we've taken a bite at the apple a few times and every time you start and stop it costs money and we don't have a whole lot to show for it. Now we do. Um, I think it's a tough decision to to to make to do it, but I think we've given you direction on budget planning, um, location and timeline. Um, I think that one thing that's kind of left for direction [clears throat] is do we pursue the let's get it done quick and save the escalating six to 7% increases. Had we done this 10 years ago, it would have saved us 25 million bucks. Right? Those are the things. And if you if you push it out more, what does that cost and save? And you have to be prudent in the staging all that. From everything I've heard, I I favor doing it all at once and having a shorter interruption period of time. Um, I also favor that if we can't absorb that in the short term for the staff and it lingers a little bit longer, maybe it makes sense for us to get creative and do something at Oakidge where we would be a part owner of that building. Um, and we could retrofit that thing for the short term and then when we turn it back, it's an asset to the community where they can either repric it or take it out. And I think that um, in five years that that would that that investment would be worth more. And so I think we can get creative with that. But I I I support continuing. I support the budget. I support doing it sooner than later. I support doing more in a shorter period of time than less over an extended period of time. So, >> Commissioner Anderson, you have any comments? >> Um, no. I do want to thank you um for all your work. I I I appreciate that. Um I I will um affirm what Commissioner Udman says. I've been involved in many more building projects uh more government building projects than I care to um think about and yeah the longer you wait just the more expensive it is. So looking at that cost benefit of um whether we do it all at once or spread it out. I think my major concern at this moment in time is where are our people going to work um while we're building this building? and and I know we have good people working on that. So I I appreciate it. But once again, thanks for your work. It's it's exciting to to do this. So that's all I got. >> Mr. Lynch, >> I liked your idea about Nick giving the real lousy tour. >> Um >> it's a good lousy. >> It's a really good lousy tour. And >> ultimately we have to answer to the uh voters, why did we do this? Um you took down a perfectly good building, yada yada yada. I would actually like to get and this is not you guys have done a wonderful job. This is more for Nick to actually have the pictures of why we're doing this and from the the inards of that building and um you could narrate it. You could have u but I would like to have that on the website. It's like why are we doing this? You know what what are the costs to uh and uh can you even reconstruct it? But anyway, ultimately, yes, I think we need to go forward with this. And the reason is because I took the lousy tour with, you know, just like you did and um and with the explanations. Um I think that'd be just um that would help out a lot. >> Greatation. >> All right. >> Okay. Well, with that, we thank you for your time. Appreciate uh your service and your feedback and um look forward to next steps. >> Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Fehey, for your hard work on this uh this project. All right. Uh we are going to adjourn right now. See you at six. >> I hate to see the old building go down. Tom, I know. I told the story when my dad had his chambers and