Good evening. It's now 5:30 p.m. And I call to order the workshop of the Victoria City Council. Our workshops are informal, so we'll dive right into our agenda. There's two items on our agenda this evening, and the first is to conduct interviews for our planning commission alternate positions. And second is a sketch plat for the former Dairy Queen site. We're going to begin tonight with our planning commission alternate interviews. On behalf of the council, I want to thank you all for taking the time to make an application. We sincerely appreciate your interest in serving our community. Your applications were routed to council in advance of the workshop, so we've all had a chance to review those. We'll conduct interviews in a similar format as our last round with planning commission applicants, unless there's any opposition. Um council, do I have agreement on that? Yes. Yes. All right. Looking that we have consensus. Applicants for tonight's interviews, each of you will have 3 minutes to provide us with a brief introduction and share why you'd like to serve on the Planning Commission. From there, council will move to some formal interview questions. Our city clerk will keep our time. And when you hear her alarm, please wrap up your thoughts so we're providing equal opportunity to everyone. Each of you will have a chance to answer the question before we move on to the next question and we'll rotate with who starts first. So, before we dive in, is there any questions from our applicants about the process? Okay, very good. So, we're going to start with introductions and let's start with Anna, please. Hi everyone. My name is Anna Segovia. My first language is not English, so bear with me. I'm using some visual aids. My family relocated from Eau Claire, Wisconsin about 3 and 1/2 years ago and we've been living and loving Victoria ever since. About my background, I'm an architect. Last year, I completed my master degree in urban and territorial planning in um UPC in Barcelona, Spain. And then back in 2023, I was part of the citizen academy in Victoria. I recognize some faces from back then. It was a great experience and that was my first approach to the city government. Urban planning is my passion and by being a member of the Planning Commission, I know that I can do my service to the city and contribute as a neighbor and as a professional, too. By talking to neighbors, I know there's some resistant to change and I do understand that. That's normal and even for me, sometimes I fear that change will uh take away from Victoria things that I love about this place. But as um urban planner, I know that um change is not not I think we can stop. Cities are not aesthetic entities. They are constantly changing and constantly evolving. And uh but we can do is shape that change into our vision of the future. Um, when we were relocating, we were um to house house hunting, we were touring the city and surrounding cities in order to um choose where to live. And for me it was clear. I wanted to live in Victoria because with the early um with the early um approaches of the city government, I can see they had a clear vision of what they want from the city. They were building paths so people can gather in these new spaces surrounded by buildings that had mixed use. For me that translates into first uh you're building a very strong community. Second, you are setting the grounds for local business to be successful. And third, you are building a city that is alive 24/7. And that is translated into safety, a strong belonging sense of belonging, and um a great city. And I wanted to be part of it and that's why I'm here to Thank you. Um, David, you're going to be next. Dave Kleinfelter, uh moved here in 2015 and uh did the Citizens Academy as well and got interested in the city at that time. So, volunteered to be on the Senior Citizen Advisory Committee, which has been a nice experience. And so, I think think it was time as I retired from my full-time employment, had more time and thought this was a great time to get involved more deeply here with the city on the Planning Commission. I think that planning is a great activity. One of my favorite things is to see a plan come together and things improve or get better. And uh the city is poised for all kinds of new growth and and uh development. And I think it's critical time for us as we develop the 2050 long-term plan to get it right and to be thinking about where we're going to be down the roads. So, it's a critical time for the city. I I kind of compare us in Victoria to Eden Prairie and and Chanhassen. I don't think Eden Prairie had a good plan at one time. They've got rec center at one end of the city, a library way at the other end, city hall somewhere in between. Somebody gave them a building and they turned it into an art center. I'm not sure where it is within the city and there's a senior citizen complex somewhere else. Contrast that to Chanhassen where they just finished the new city hall and the senior citizen complex beside the library with a nice park and the uh post office just a block away and then the new rec center being built south of town there. Right now is the time for Victoria to kind of think through all those facility issues as well as the infrastructure that goes with them so that we don't wind up somewhere where we don't it doesn't work so well at one point down the road. So, my background is in higher education. I've been an administrator and that's where I learned to plan and to budget and to work with facilities and so I like to to do that kind of work and good budgeting leads to good planning and then you get a nice success at the other end. Uh my experience has been that uh as I work with projects like that I developed the ability to analyze and to to work with data. I think data is the most important thing that leads to good planning and so we need to gather the information in a variety of ways and then put the plan together. And uh lastly I would say that uh I like it because I like to imagine what the future will look like and it's a time here when we can imagine are we going to have this kind of a facility, this kind of a community and we put all that together and develop a plan that works for everybody in the city, the senior citizens as well as the young people and so forth. Very good. Thank you, Dave. Yeah. Mike? Michael? What do you prefer? Uh my name's Michael. I go by Mike Anderson. We moved here in 2020. Um I grew up in the Alexandria area, small towns surrounding it. Um and then went to the college here at the U of M and then have lived in the outskirts of the cities. Um moving here in 2021 um we fell in love with the lakes in the area and all that kind of stuff. So, we were super excited about that. We started our family here. Um and wanted to help um be involved with the growing of the city. Like I said, I've been from the small city or towns north who are stagnant and that kind of stuff. Um, I'd like to be a part of growing the community. Um, my background is a mechanical engineer. Um, design pools, community centers, ice arenas, that type of stuff. Um, I get to see the plans and kind of the detailed stuff. I'd like to step back and just kind of see um, what else goes into it. Um, and be a part of the community as well. Looking for a how to get involved type of thing. Thanks. Thank you so much. So, now we're going to move on to the Q&A portion of the interviews. My council colleagues are going to help me out with this. So, we'll ask questions of each of you. You'll have an opportunity to answer before we move on to the next question. Let's start with council member Evanski. Can you uh, kick us off, please? Uh, absolutely, Mayor. I will start with Michael and then move on to David and and Anna, correct? All right. So, the first question I have for you is Victoria's experiencing a rapid growth while striving to retain our small-town character and unique identity. What does Victoria's identity mean to you in land use or development decisions? Victoria's Hm. To me, it's uh, tight-knit community that strives to be um, to includes to include everybody and stay to a high standard and um, I'm sorry. Um, Um I'm having a hard time. Sorry. That's quite all right. Uh anything else you want to add before we move on to the next candidate? Great. Mr. Kleinfelter, and then if I could just say before you begin, uh thank you for the review of Eden Prairie. I'm sure that they they would >> [laughter] >> Thanks, Mike. Residential development's going to happen, you know, that's pretty pretty easy deal. The the challenge for me I think the city's facing as far as land use is the facilities that the city owns from this building to the library to the rec center to the new fire station to downtown west and what happens there as well as the old water treatment plant and so forth. Uh getting those things right, I mean that's a 20-30 year decision, you know, what goes where and how they all work together. That's why I used the Eden Prairie example. I don't think that that looking back that was a good plan that came together. More important though than that, I think, is the the third leg of what the planning commission should be about and that's business growth and uh industrial growth. Where's the industrial park going to be? Where's the office park going to be? How are we going to recruit people to move there? And what are the priorities in terms of the kind of businesses and the kind of industries, light industry or whatever, that we want there and how we're going to get there because every city needs more money and residential development is great but it's those businesses which we don't have very many of that will make the big difference in the budget and make it a lot easier for the council and for the city to do the thing kind of things that would be nice to have. So, that's I think is the number one priority and in that 2050 plan we got to think really clearly about what kind of growth, where, what kind of industry, what kind of businesses make sense and then figure out how to go and get them. Thank you. Anna. Um regarding the identity of Victoria um I think the city is about the relationship between the people who live here and the nature. It's the city of parks and lakes, right? So, it's how we use those those public places and how we relate to that. I think everyone here loves the fact that you have a lot of trees and nature and you are have easy access to trails and you can have a good use of this um lakes and parks that are surrounded us. That's the main part I I think. That's what brings the community together. Great. Thank you everyone. Appreciate it. Thank you. Council member Roberts, do you want to tee up our next question, please? Yep. Uh we'll start with David and then we'll go to Anna and then uh Michael. So, um planning commissioners must balance community goals with private property rights. How would you approach a situation where proposed development meets zoning requirements but raises community concerns? David. Zoning requirements are pretty Oh, and then just make sure you get your Yeah. Uh it's it would be a bad decision to violate the zoning ordinance. So, I think we are bound by it. We have to follow it. We have to be careful, and we can't [snorts] uh not follow our own ordinances or our own uh zoning regulations. There are typically some wiggle room there, like the new hotel where it's like two parking spaces, right? So, you have a chance to in in uh inject your opinions at point like that. And so, the key thing is to follow the rules first of all, or whatever the zone zoning regulations say. When there is some room for for latitude or debate I think it's most important to listen to the people that bring the idea and the proposal, and to other folks that may be affected by it, and balance those those competing interests. I think it's it's a a danger to have developers come and say, "We want to do this. We want to do that." And everybody wants new jobs, and everybody wants new growth. But, the developer should not drive that in my opinion. The city council should have that plan and that vision. And if it fits, great. If it doesn't, then we can say no once in a while if it's within the purview of the zoning regulations. Thank you. I know Minneapolis has certain requirements for Victoria. Um and we need to grow and to provide housing for people uh in all economic uh strategies. Um it is very important to analyze the sun and where should that go. If something change, you cannot uh stop it. You cannot stop the growing. You have to make uh good decisions about where to grow and how to make this new population interact with the actual population because I know there is some problems going on there. Um it's not easy, but it's doable. It's a We have a big space to grow. It's just a matter what to put where. And I think you have all the uh tools in order to decide where and how to do this because it's not only uh you're not only building places for people to live, but in those spaces, you can mix some other uses and you can build a community in turn of those spaces, too. Thank you. Michael. Um I think it's important to follow zoning rules, um but they're still rules that were based in an idea, and if there's it has to be based in the essence of it, but if there's a special circumstances that maybe it didn't quite fit, some modifications can happen. Um I like to not go too far from the rules. I was part of a lawsuit on a building that was half built, and it the lawsuit happened for 10 years. Um the architect built it 2 ft too tall. Somebody said that was had an issue with that because it wasn't part of the zoning. So, I think we need to figure out the the essence of the the rule and see if it still fits in what the reason for that rule was. Um and I think that's important. Great. Council member Reif, how about you next? Thank you. One, thank you all for being here. Appreciate your interest and continued involvement in Victoria. So, thank you. Um Planning commissioners sometimes make recommendations or decisions that affect your neighbors, friends, familiar places. How do you approach making difficult or maybe unpopular decisions in a public role? Uh we'll start with Anna, then go with Michael, then David. Well, I think I have some advantage in this point because I can see it from the professional perspective of things. And I know some decisions can even affect my family or me, but uh I've been trying to look to the great picture instead of uh what happening in that moment. And I know change it's not welcome by everyone all the time, but in the long time uh you can see the fruits of those decisions. Excellent. Thank you. Michael. I think it's it stems from or you need to with the person who's having an issue or whatever, sit down and have a conversation of what the bigger picture is, what's the intent um for the long term, and um make sure that you feel it in your uh yourself that that's the direction or that's the right direction, for the city to go. Excellent. Thank you. Dave? Thank you. Thank you all. Council member Pederson, you're up next. Question number four. All right, who are we starting with this time? Mike? Start with Mike. Describe how you would navigate making decisions that are in the best interest of the public, even though you don't personally agree with them. Comes down to data and research, um, and what the long-term vision is. Um, being an engineer, I can see what take into account what's the bigger vision, and if it's going to lead us in the right direction, I'm usually all for it. Um, I don't as an engineer, you're supposed to be for the community, um, and I take that to heart. Thank you. Anna, you're up next. You ready? You want me to repeat the question or you good? All right. Um all the decisions taken by the planning commission are not done without previous thinking. They have technical reasons behind and they have a lot of uh research and uh that that is making that decision. That's why they are making it. So, I don't think it is hard to accept that even if it's affecting you because you are looking at all this work that is behind those decisions. It's not it's not done uh day to night, night to day. It's like it took a long time to go there. So. Even when we're going to build a roundabout right in your front yard. >> [laughter] >> Sometimes it can happen, but yeah, it can happen. It happened to my I I used to live in a cul-de-sac and they opened a road, but I know that's the way we're going and you have to accept it. That's it. Thank you. Appreciate it. Dave, you're up. Yeah, thank you. Very good. So, um I'll wrap us up here. Um planning commission decisions follow statutory reliable attendance, and preparation, and they're all critical to the commission's effectiveness. So, um can you commit to attending two meetings per month and completing the advanced review needed to participate fully in discussions? See nods all around here. Very good. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much. We'll make the decision on appointments at this evening's council meeting. Um you're welcome to stay and listen to the rest of the uh workshop and the council meeting. Otherwise, you can go home and view it on your own TV from your easy chair. It's up to you. But thank you so much for taking the time to join us this evening. We have a difficult decision in front of us. You're all very well qualified for this. So, thank you again for your volunteerism. Thank you all. Thank you. All right. Council, do we need any further discussion on or information on this before we move on to our next item? Are we good? I'm good, Mayor. >> we're good. All right. With that, let's move on to the next item, which is a sketch plat for the former Dairy Queen site. Presenting on that this evening is our city planner, Brian McCann. Mr. McCann, welcome. The floor is yours. >> [snorts] >> site. This is a proposed commercial development. Um and as always with every sketch plat, um just know that this is to provide initial feedback to the developers they start working on preliminary plat plans. Uh there aren't any approvals or actions to be taken this evening. It's just simply to provide guidance to them as they move forward with their project. So, for the location and existing conditions, the site is addressed 2120 Arboretum Boulevard. It's about 0.88 acres in size. It currently consists of a vacant building, which had the former Dairy Queen, uh as well as a parking lot with 37 stalls. It's adjacent to the future downtown West development uh to the east and the existing daycare to the north. It also has an access to Highway 5 as well as an access to County Road 11 Victoria Drive, and the site entirely is about 67 impervious 67% impervious right now. The sketch plat that was submitted and is proposed this evening consists of two commercial uh restaurant buildings. The building on the west is about 1,900 sq ft in size, and the building on the east is 2,300 sq ft. The western building is proposed to have a drive-thru with stacking capacity up to 15 vehicles, as well as a small outdoor uh dining area on a concrete patio. They're also proposing 43 parking stalls within the site, and they are eliminating the access that exists today to Highway 5, but they're proposing to retain the access to Victoria Drive on the west side of the site. So, here's a slide uh just showing the project area and its relation to the rest of the downtown West development. So, it's on this very southwest corner. Um this is that existing access to five that's going away. It's just showing um like for grading project purposes, but you can see how the site connects to the remainder of downtown West and that moved access to Highway 5 while retaining that access to County Road 11. Then looking at our zoning and comprehensive plan, it's currently zoned central business district and guided downtown mixed-use in our 2040 comprehensive plan. Uh the commercial uses that they are proposing are compliant with both our zoning and the comprehensive plan. I will note that drive-thrus and permanent outdoor dining areas are conditional uses in our code, so that will require a conditional use permits if they proceed with this design. Then this area is also entirely when our within our Shoreline Overlay District because it's within 1,000 ft of Auburn Lake. So, commercial uses are also a conditional use in our code within Shoreline areas. Uh so, they will need additional conditional use permit for that, but it's also subject to an 80% maximum impervious requirement per our code. Uh right now with this current design that they have, they're showing about 78.7% impervious, so they're compliant with that and we don't anticipate a variance being needed. Moving on to building materials, lighting, and signage, they are proposing eight streetlights throughout the site, so it should be adequately lit, but if there are any proposed exterior building lighting or signage, we would like to review that with future submittals. And then we'll also take a closer look at uh their elevations to make sure they comply with our uh elevated design requirements of the Central Business District. Then for landscaping and tree preservation, they did provide some landscaping plans uh showing tree plantings around the proximity of the site noted on the screen as well as some extensive shrub and perennial foundation plantings and some native prairie seeds to the north side of the site with irrigated areas within the remainder of the site. Uh this Central Business District is exempt from open space and minimum planting requirements, so those were not calculated here, but the tree preservation plan shows a proposed 100% removal of the existing significant heritage trees on site. There's only four out there, so it's not a a large number, but our code is based on percentages, so they will likely be seeking an exemption to a full mitigation requirement per our code due to the developing urban environment similar to what was done for the Downtown West development to the east. Looking at parking and drive aisles, they meet our 26-ft wide drive aisle requirement. Um based on the uses proposed, retail requires 3.6 spaces per 1,000 sq ft. Um I took this in three different ways. So, if the entire site, both buildings combined, were consisting of all retail spaces, the maximum or the minimum requirement would be 16 parking stalls for this entire site if it's all retail here. If it's all restaurant here, uh per our code, 4,200 sq ft requires 76 parking stalls, but if there's some blend of retail or restaurant in this area, uh the 43 parking stalls provided would likely uh meet the capacity needs out here. But additionally, uh the Downtown West development originally showed this building slightly off screen to be a drive-thru use. We anticipate that that's going to become a retail use, so there might be some additional parking capacity in the the parking lot just to the east in the area of Main Street here shown on the screen. Then looking at pedestrian connections, they are proposing a 8-ft wide concrete sidewalk across the site with a pedestrian connection that would connect into the remainder of Downtown West, and they're also showing a connection to the trail going along uh County Road 11 and Highway 5. For Parkland dedication, commercial projects less than an acre in size are exempt from that, so we don't expect any uh cash fee or land with this proposal, but they do have the central green and the public plaza within the downtown west area, which would be great amenities for anyone visiting these uses. And then looking at wetlands, stormwater management, and site utilities, this area is within the MCWD's jurisdiction, so they're subject to their rules and regulations. Uh we don't anticipate a lot of impacts to wetlands given that this site is already um previously housed a commercial use there. Uh they are proposing to uh further develop the regional stormwater system out in this area and connect that to the Highway 5 systems. So our engineering team is evaluating that further. And then the site utilities would come from downtown west and connect to existing infrastructure out there. So with that, I have five questions to help guide the discussion if needed tonight, otherwise staff can stand for any questions you may have, and representatives of the application are in the audience as well. Very good. Thank you, Mr. McCann. Council, questions, comments, feedback on this proposal. I'm sure I can start. Yeah. Council Member Roberts, kick us off here. Um I just have a couple comments. Um I I kind of am a broken record about this, but um just I think it's important. I always when I see drive-thrus and such, I always go to the Starbucks in Chaska by Aldi, and it is a miserable parking lot. So when we're like looking at this, like the like just making sure the flow works, right? With all the entrances and stuff, you know, again, the Starbucks in Chaska by Aldi, like it's blocks the entrance to for everyone going to Aldi or to Chipotle or to whatever, right? Like, um so just making sure we're thinking about you know, the locations of where cars are coming in and out, so we're not blocking traffic in there in the flow. Um I think that's really important. Um the 40 So, All right. So, it says retail food. I mean, it seems like obviously the one food with the drive-thru is probably either fast food or something like a coffee you know, or something that's, you know, doing stuff through a drive-thru. So, you know, again, probably not a sit-down in for a long period of time. Um I don't know what the other one is being kind of thought about. So, um but it feels like the 43 is probably going to be enough like where if it was just like two full sit-down restaurants, it probably wouldn't be maybe because there people would be there for a longer time. I would call Mr. Runk, welcome. Please state your name for our record. >> Carl Carl Runk, uh Modern Development Partners. Um Um so, that we worked together with staff, including Brian and Mark Collister on probably 10 iterations of how to solve this and to connect it to the Main Street, and it was challenging. And um Matt could be a share more about how we came up with the the diagrams here, but the overall uses that we're solving for um there's two uh coffee groups competing for the corner right now that we're we're hoping uh will brand the corner well as a the one really national use out of the entire downtown was vision. Uh the other space we're working closely with a regional uh fast casual concept that does not have a drive-thru. Uh so, but the number of seats inside of the coffee in either scenario is uh more minimal than than drive-thru. Drive-thru revenue is really what they're counting on, which is why we're showing two two lanes versus one like the example in Chaska there. Um and also we with Mark Collister being really helpful as landscape architect, doing this for a living as well as worked for the city. Um, this is again probably version 10. We could have shown all the iterations. How do you do this without having stacking in a worst case scenario coming out on the highway 5 or 11? It's challenging, but we think this is the best outcome. And then my only other comment was can you go to the slide um that showed the sidewalks and stuff? So this is kind of in this area and I'm assuming like obviously there'll be sidewalks to wrap around, but I guess just cuz it's kind of hard to view in this like how how I guess can well connected is it to the rest of downtown West like if you're you know is there a trail that's going to go kind of to the the the public plaza kind of areas I guess for lack of a better word um type thing. Mayor and Council member Roberts, that's a great question. Um I should have drawn beyond this site uh but this yellow spot here this is the sidewalk. It doesn't actually terminate here. Uh this sidewalk actually extends further out and connects into downtown West further in the active plaza and all the surrounding uses. Okay. So I we were talking last week with uh staff on uh even like the Main Street signage. So it's easy to have Main Street signage all on Main Street that connects all the way over to the corner there where the Dairy Queen site is. So trying to make it feel walkable even though it's becoming you know it's more auto oriented cuz it has to be frankly at the corner, but becoming more walkable as you go in a direction to the east is our idea. And then my last question for you would be just um like what is the I guess the vision of timing on this? Is this kind of like after the four commercial spaces get built? Is this farther down like is this kind of an in between kind of phase? >> because it's a faster delivery than doing the bigger project. Uh we're and we're op hopefully going to be through a preliminary plat final plat later this summer and start right after that. And and the time to build those uh buildings is faster in a lot of ways than what we're proposing or what's approved on Main Street. Perfect. Thank you. All right. Other questions, comments? Council member Eife? Yeah. Um Council member Roberts covered my question on the sidewalk connectivity. I'm just trying to visualize the space in between each building. What am I looking at? Like if you can give me an idea. I'm just trying to >> Between the two buildings on the corner here? >> Yeah. Um well, between the buildings it would be um a a drive-thru in this scenario with landscaping on both sides. Okay. So What would that I'm just trying to visualize it. Like distance? Yeah. Um Matthew, do you know what those are? Okay. I was going to say 20 ft. So, okay. I'm just trying to visualize it. So 15 to 18 ft is what Matt said from the audience just so those watching at home. Okay. Excellent. Thank you. No, that that's good. Um and I also about parking, I think Council member Roberts covered that as well. So, I guess we're somewhere in the middle of the low end of 16, the high end of 76, 43 due to the uses of the buildings and that sounds that sounds doable to me as well. >> we're planning for a you know, worst case scenario that this is all connected to downtown West parking that we have there as well that they could ebb and flow with we we believe will be more daytime uses on the building five, which is the one right next to this that Brian's pointing to there will point to. Um so that if there happens to be a peak event in the morning, let's say over there that they could overflow to that parking lot. Yep. And this is just kind of a drive-thru question as well. You covered the one the Chaska Aldi uh piece. The other one is the the drive-thru with um I don't know how many times that wheels are scuffed on the corner or the curb of a drive-thru. So In the Chaska example there >> Yeah, in Chaska example, there's others too around. So, I'd prefer uh a different type of material or wider, one of the two. I don't know. We've had it happen in our household plenty of times. Yeah, design design question [laughter] here. How do we do this so don't have scuff marks and tires uh Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you. All right. Council member Patterson, anything from you? >> Um just a few comments. Um I think I like the stacking design just from the standpoint of if people are entering from 11, you've got that entire parking lot essentially to be used for stacking along with all the way into the other areas of downtown West. So, I think that we kind of solved that issue. Is there any problem, and this is probably Matt's question a question for Matt, with having that entrance point on 11 right next to essentially a roundabout from five? Can you show us that on the screen, please? Welcome, Matt. Will you please introduce yourself? >> Yeah, and I it's they're very close, and that was just looking at it. Uh yes, Matt Pavich, Civil Site Group, uh civil engineer on the project. Uh Mayor, Council, um yes, we have looked at that, and that was a a concern early on, which is what led us to making sure we have a free movement into the parking lot. So, we tried to pull back the parking spaces uh as much as possible from that side to help help that movement in. And then also kept away the entrance to the drive-thru so they wouldn't stack out onto 11. So, we we reversed it in a in one of these iterations. Okay, so yes, it is a consideration, but we As long as we're comfortable with it, city engineer and work that it deemed it safe, so. Okay. Before he sits down, can I ask him a question? Just one more. The um is this the car like you it looks like between the going the ex- exit where there's a car and then all the ones way back to where the entrance is is that just like there's 16 cars there. Could you is that to scale like you could fit 16? So I mean that's a good amount of cars to be able to fit within that drive-thru without like going blocking uh blocking traffic I guess or going out into the street. So I mean that that's a lot of cars. So that seems like it's a good amount. So I would imagine that those retailers have stats on how many what the max number of cars typically would be in a drive-thru at any one time. You are nodding your head. >> Yes. Correct. Yes. >> Yes. Um there's I there's so many billions of examples. I would imagine somebody took the time to work out the data on that. Uh Mary, yes. Correct. Uh we've been working with also city staff kind of setting that minimum at 15 for this particular type of use. So uh we're definitely considering that um with the design. Very good. Councilmember Patterson? >> Um yeah, the only I again, I have the same concerns with parking just from the standpoint of back in my day I would go and park at the coffee shop and work there all day long. So I didn't have to deal with anybody at my house, but it's a different topic for a different day. Um I think I'm comfortable with how this parking set up even though it if we have two major um restaurants were technically short based on the uh based on the city code. Well, then we'll be able to filter into the other areas to get more parking if we need to from that end. Um and this might be more of a legal question and I'm not sure, but is there any thought or would you want to connect with um the daycare center like just to the north of your particular area. Uh I just would feel that if I'm dropping my kid off, I'm swinging into the coffee shop almost every time. And it might be beneficial to have some level of connectivity there. I know that's not your property and that sort of thing, but might be worth a discussion to have with them about it. I have noted. All right. Which is is there the trail? Brian, does it go along on Highway 11 to the daycare center? Correct. So it'd just be at Right now there's a playground on the east side of the daycare building. So if you're a parent, you probably you'd have to take that trail then down. Is that right? Once it's done. Correct. Yeah, I'm not sure I didn't use this daycare, but just thinking about when I was at daycare and dropping kids off, I was pulling into the coffee shop. And it might be nice and easy if there was an easy access point. That's all. Again, just a thought. >> Yeah, we've we've reached out to the owner of the daycare building and we're happy to give her an update on this and talk further about that. And we'd like it to have parents if there's a way to have synergies that way. So the this parking that's shown north of your buildings is the parking you are proposing for both those buildings. Is that correct? >> Yes. Yes, it's what we could physically fit in there and then knowing there's it could flex with the downtown West parking lot. The stuff to the east. The to the east, yes. >> Correct. Okay, understood. All right. Anything else, Councilmember Pederson? That was it. All right, Councilmember Vanskey, anything from you? Just a what are the prospects of having a connection to the trail that would be north of five on the southeast corner of the the site? Cuz it doesn't really feel like unless there's something that's going to be sidewalk wise on the main entrance to five to be able to connect the trail from the what will be the the new buildings on existing downtown West. Uh it it feels like the only way that you're getting to the trail from all of that is to continue to walk West. to uh 11th and then it's almost like you have no easy access for people to get to the trail. Do you There is a trail plan for this whole site. Do you have a a picture of that? Because that was a question that I had asked too when we were out kind of walking this property and that Lake Minnetonka Regional Trail does come off. Um I don't know that we've got a good picture of that that moves through that site. I don't unhand unfortunately, but you are correct um that uh Steiger Lake Lane will connect down to the Lake Minnetonka Regional Trail. And I feel like it kind of that come comes in Matt, you're looking at me like maybe you can shed some light on this for us. >> Uh yes, Mayor Council. So, there is a connection where Brian was pointing out along Steiger that connects to the to the trail that then runs along the north side of five. And then the Dairy Queen in site, there's a connection just at the west side of the Dairy Queen site. Um and then it then the trail wraps up along 11th. So, the reason we don't have anything in in the middle of those two ends is there's a grade challenge there. So, we don't have we could make a connection, but it wouldn't be handicap accessible. So, um we did look at that um but there's just the grades are too steep in that area to make that connection. This entrance off Highway 5 is a right in right out? Correct. I mean I I I can see that people will take the path of least resistance. They'll come out of the retail space. They'll, you know, walk behind the cars that are stacking up in the drive-thru across that little peninsula that's sticking out in between the drive-thru lane. And um then those parking spaces Is it you know, Brian everybody is it absolutely mandatory that it has to have um wheelchair access there or can a staircase be built in there? And then if you if you need to have wheelchair access, then you use the County Road 11 and and make your way south and then east from there. I just feel like you're going to get a lot of people that are going to just be wandering in front of cars there. Unstructured. If there is something there, you're going to take some of the safety concerns off of that. Um one comment on that. I I think we'd be open to that for sure. Um it is MnDOT right-of-way. So, putting a stair in a MnDOT right-of-way may be a challenge. We'll have to look into that detail. Um but I wouldn't I don't think we'd be opposed to that connection. Council member Yevansky, anything else? Uh no. I I think that I think that's about it. Just you know, a little bit more pedestrian accessible. I mean we we want things to be walkable as much as we can, you know, all you know, be able to bike, you know, you know, we certainly heard from uh discussion we had a couple weeks ago that even golf carts are a desirable amenity. So, I mean for us this is the time for us to think about these things now. Uh and act so that um if if we can foresee it now, then chances are in the future it's going to be something that somebody will say, "Well, I wish somebody had done something about this at the time." Um and well, as we prepare our preliminary plat application, we'll explore all the ways to connect, you know, the pedestrians and bikers and not just to the main plaza, which we think are going to go to, but also to, you know, the Dairy Queen corner and accessing the site multiple ways. Great. As well as architecture, you know, this is this uh sketch plan sketch plat application doesn't include any architecture yet. Um it's specific to on one to a user that we end up choosing to go with. So, we'll bring that to the preliminary plat as the idea next. And then the other building we have more flexibility and we're working with the architects that are to have designed the Main Street building, so it feels like it belongs to the Downtown West overall. >> Uh so, it'll be coming with our preliminary plat application. So, I my colleagues already asked most of the questions that I had, but I just want to comment on the uses. I think spot-on. I you know, that corner right there on 11 and 5 um I you know, I know we tried really hard to keep everything sort of small business, mom and pop uh throughout um the Downtown West site, but I really think that a couple of flagship um restaurants, coffee shops, those kinds of things would really fit that corner well and would be a great welcome to Victoria. Um so, I applaud that. Thank you for um seeking out those folks and and uh getting a bidding war going on. We like that. >> Yeah, thank you. Um one last thing, Brian, can you flip to those last questions? I want to make sure that we've provided enough feedback for you gentlemen. If there's anything else you're looking for from us this evening, um No, this was helpful just in terms of the overall layout cuz as mentioned, there was so many iterations we went through to get to this point. We wanted your feedback and thanks for that and ideas to take forward from here on the preliminary plat applications. Yeah. Appreciate the fact that you guys spent a lot of time scratching your head about the stacking of those cars on the drive-thru. Um you know, one of the things that I think is very frustrating for all users is when you put something like that on a place too small to manage it adequately, it's very frustrating for customers and you kind of heard that iterate you know, that mentioned here along at the dais. So, um appreciate the fact that you took some time to think through that. Um other than that, any final thoughts for these folks on this plat? >> it pretty soon it's you know, it's we keep referring to this the Dairy Queen corner. It's just going to be the Caribou corner really. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, the the reserve Gateway corner and that would be our marketing name you might have saw for the downtown West is is the reserve Victoria and which has been well received so far, but uh but it was great thanks to Jim Gully working with the Dairy Queen owners for 9 months now to get to this point. So, we'll keep on it until we get to an approved project here hopefully and close. So. Very good. Thank you. All right. I'm sorry. I I I was looking at I just had one more thing that Yeah, Council member Wanski. Yeah, it struck me that when we're thinking about the large building that really isn't visible on here except in a small square in the niche behind the Alphabet Junction. Um if if there's going to be a sizeable amount of residential space, uh would you want to like consider some rethinking of the uh the paths that are going to come out of the southeast corner of that building and how accessible this site will be to residents there. Um I mean, it just feels that again, on the theory of people take the path of least resistance, uh you know, would you want to just like consider, hey, how easily can somebody get to the coffee shop from there or walk to the right? >> the Upper West building as a future phase, for example. I think that was a comment you had earlier in one of our prior meetings on Downtown West. Um that is something I think with the when we come forward with the building five, the West A lot building application, which we want to come with the Jerry Quayside, is maybe show how that connects better. You know, if someone's walking from the future residential buildings, which is a higher elevation, how do they get down to this future retail, not just the Main Street, cuz we're trying to funnel a lot of people to the plaza and Main Street, but they're also going to by nature going to want to go there, too. Okay. Thanks. Thanks. Okay. Last call? Looks great. Okay, with that, there are no more items on the agenda this evening. Um so, I will entertain a motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Second. >> We have a motion and a second. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. We stand adjourned. Um