Okay, welcome everyone. Uh, this is the parks and recck committee meeting for Monday, August 18th. We'll start as we usually do with a roll call. We'll start with Terry, >> Terry Culp, >> Chris Casey, >> Adam Der, Alexheim, Larry Schulz, >> Amanda Cahill, Mary Larson, >> Jacob Paul, >> and Jenna Smith. >> Okay, thanks everyone. Uh, first order of business is approval of the minutes uh from our last meeting, which was uh June 16th. Um, >> oh, that's not right, is it? July 21st. >> July July 21st. Okay. Says June. Okay. July 21st. Uh 2025. Um anybody want to make a motion to approve those? Is there sent out to you? >> So moved. >> Okay. Motion by Mary. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Second. Um any further discussion? All those in favor of approving the minutes of July 21st, 2025 meeting signify by saying I. >> I. >> I. >> Oppos say nay. Motion carried. Uh next item on would be a uh our normal petitions, proclamations, suggestions or complaints from citizens, committee members or staff. Does anybody want to make a comment? Did I have a question. >> Okay, you may if you could come to the podium. Uh, give us your name and address. And >> I am Tammy Tammy Leonetti and I am in the Lake Bridge neighborhood. I'm on the HOA. >> Okay. >> Um, and the question that I had representing our community is where we're at with the extension of the trail. I know a couple of years ago they extended they cut down a bunch of brush on that. Um, if you're if you're going down the hill in Lake Bridge, um, in our neighborhood to connect with the MLRT, you take a right and it's all wooded that way. I think you guys know what I'm talking about, right? Um, nothing's been done for the last couple of years. And so, we're really curious as to what the status. >> Okay. Well, you've come to the right meeting because we're going to be talking about that on our uh, next uh, agenda item later in the meeting. So, we'll we'll bring that up and address that for you. >> All right. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, anything else from committee members hear and out there? >> No. >> Okay. Jenna, do you have some updates? >> Yeah. So, uh, just a few, um, things that are coming up. Um, we've got our final park engagement event tomorrow. So, I hope to see as many of you um out there as possible. Um it'll be at the future Marsh Hollow Park site um from 6:00 to 8:00 PM. Um this will be another opportunity to provide feedback for the future of what um the parks in those uh two developments um are. Um we also still have the park development survey available um for uh people to submit feedback. Uh that will close on September 30th. Um we are doing really well at getting feedback. We have um I think over 520 responses so far, which is the greatest response we've had in a survey yet. So um keep it coming. Um and then our fall program registration um did go live this week. Um the program guides for the fall um will be hitting mailboxes any day now. >> Okay. Thanks, Jenna. Uh there is no old business this evening. Uh under new business, uh we have a proposed ordinance. Jenna, you want to >> lead us in there? >> Absolutely. >> All right. So, um the proposed ordinance um is in conversation with vehicles that are permitted in our parks. And so, a little bit of a background here. Um you know, obviously walking, biking, those are very typical things that happen in our parks and trails system. However, the use of ebikes has raised in popularity. Uh recently uh city staff have received um numerous calls um and complaints in regards to the operation of ebikes on trails um and within our parks as well. A lot of these concerns include the speed of the parks, where they can be operated, who should be operating these bikes, trail use etiquette. Um and in addition to that, we've also had improper use um which lead led to damage um in our parks and fields. And so we've seen, you know, people in our ball fields doing donuts and things like that causing a lot of damage to those fields, building ramps in certain areas um and things like that. Um so this uh proposed ordinance is to try to address some of that because our uh previous statute did did talk about it, but it didn't um call it out specific enough and so there was a lot of public confusion as to what's permitted, what's not permitted, um things like that. So, for some context, um we need to define what an ebike is because there are ve very many different types that are out right now. Um some are permitted and some are not permitted um per our ordinance um before and the proposed one. The term ebike, you're not going to see that written into the language of the the proposed ordinance um because that's a common term used to describe a variety of things. And so, the ordinance goes into more specific detail as to what these different items are. Um so um just a visual differentiation that you'll see here is um on the far left we have one version of an ebike. This is the type of ebikes that are not permitted um in our parks and trails system. And this is one that um is the one that we're seeing causing the damage, causing the issues, causing the speed issues. Uh the bikes that are on the far left are ones that are rated um significantly higher in terms of speed. And so, um, these ones can go 30, 40. This one says it can go to 52 miles an hour. Um, in situations like this, this is no longer something safe to be on our trails. So, these are not permitted um on our trails. Um, the ones that are permitted um because they fall within certain parameters are the ones you see on the right. Um, the ones that look more like traditional bikes, but it's an electric assisted bike where um it does fall into the class one, two, or three. Um, and um, you still need to use a pedal in order to be able to operate it. Um, and then those motorized foot scooters, um, they don't go in excessive speed. Um, and so those are permitted on the trails per state ordinances or state laws. Um, they're not permitted on sidewalks, but they are permitted on trails. So, the previous municipal code had um the following definitions um laid out for what these vehicles are um that are or aren't permitted in our bikes. Um it was a pretty wide um category of things and so it didn't necessarily differentiate between what is permitted and what is prohibited. Um and so it did have a definition of um special ve vehicles or motor vehicles. Um and it describes a vehicle being any motorized, self-repelled, animal drawn or humanpowered conveyance. So this is what was previously in our um municipal code. So what we are differentiating it from is um we are splitting it out into these three different um categories uh to help the public with a better idea of what these um could be. So, um these are the three different types um that we want to make sure that the public is aware of because um each of them pose a different type of experience. Um and so as we're thinking about this ordinance um these definitions kind of are key players in how we understand um the way that the ordinance is written. So, previously our municipal code um was very um not detailed, I'll put it that way. Um it did have things in there that um would prohibit um type certain types of motorized vehicles to be on our trails, but it didn't um make any um comments towards the ebike situation. Um because again, that's more of a communication thing where people this is something new. Um there's a lot of different types. So one thing could be an ebike, another thing is also an ebike. And so the code for that first section needed to be revised so that people understood exactly what is and is not permitted um within our parks and trails system. Um the speed limit was already in there. Um so that one you'll see reflected in the new code. Um and then it for the C portion it did um go in and elaborate a little bit more as to what that is. And so the new code in here does um expand on what those definitions are. Um it describes what is prohibited um and what is um permitted within the parks and trails system. Um it keeps consistent with that speed limit. Um and so that is something that was already again already in our code. Um but of course um you know people need to be informed about what um those things are. And so um we've also put something in here um in regards to helmet use. Um for persons under 18, we are proposing that it is mandatory that um they all utilize um helmets um while operating electric assisted uh vehicles. with the rise of, you know, injuries that are occurring on these bikes, the uh potential hazards and things like that. This is something that the city feels strongly about moving forward. Um and other neighboring um agencies are moving in this direction if they're not already there. So then in communication with this, some of the things that we've been starting to do um with our communicating um about both some of these changes and just trail etiquette is we've updated our website to include trail etiquette, ebike usage on our trails, speed control, safety, and other items. Um we are uh the city's getting ready to launch a social media campaign to um you know help inform people about what is and is not permitted within our trail system. um yard signs are getting ready to go up um to help encourage um safe behaviors on our trails. And then we are also in the works of creating permanent signage um to help people better understand what um is allowed on our trail system. So with that leads us to a discussion. Larry, will you take it? >> Okay. >> I just have a question too that I've seen out there and I don't know what the answer is. Are there ordinances or general safety guidelines about passengers too? Number of passengers. >> I had a similar question. >> Okay. >> Good committee. My name is Travis Bradley. I'm in the community development department the city. Um the the answer to your question is that underneath statute passengers aren't allowed. So this these are single-seater vehicles. So that's laid out. The ordinance Jenna is presented in the rules on that. All that comes directly from statute except for the helmet law for under 18. So, and >> so, so there's something not in this particular ordinance, but in other writing or language that says like passengers aren't allowed. >> Correct. If if we look if we look into the statutes, it's under chapter 169 directly. 222 and 225, which is the electric assisted bicycles as well as motorized foot scooters. There's specific rules and prohibitions that the states laid out that you can't do. So like a motorized foot scooter, it's only one person. It's only designed for one person. So only one person should be on there. Ebikes, they're designed for one person. Only one person should be out there. >> Okay. >> So what if there's an ebike that has a toddler seat attached? It's made for that. That's still an illegal usage on trails. >> Remember that is a very I believe that would have to come down to officer discretion. Unfortunately, I don't have the specifics on that spe on that scenario. >> Okay. >> Other comments, questions. >> So, those statutes that you referenced, are there state laws or >> correct? They're all state laws. They fall underneath the motor vehicle codes >> under state statutes. So this the this type of rule that would go into our ordinances and become an ordinance would be enforced by law enforcement. So it wouldn't it's we want to make sure things are as close as possible >> um to what they say. So expand expanding the definitions that we have in the code as well as making it more clear to what is prohibited versus what is allowed. That'll give the opportunity to law enforcement to be able to do some enforcement. a lot of the enforcement that's likely to be done is going to be more communication and more education. Um, and in part with the work that that uh the parks work directors done and the communication department has done, there's a lot of information that's being put out to help with that communication of safety. Uh, the biggest thing that that we've heard as staff is is as parks director pointed out is we've got speeding, we've got not obeying traffic laws and things like that. So, one way to stop that is through education. Um, you got a lot of kids. I remember when I was 15, I didn't care if it was a stop sign on a bicycle. So, just go right through it. Um, ebikes are allowed to operate in the same manner anywhere that a traditional bicycle can. They're just classifications that dictate speed and dictate controls and those are have to be clearly labeled on the ebikes themselves. Additionally, motorized foot scooters can do the same thing as they can go anywhere that regular bicycle can, except the statute specifically prohibits them from being allowed to operate on sidewalks. So, within the trails on the regional trail, which we've reached out to three rivers to talk about as well um to make sure that we're not doing anything that inter they're trying to do and enjoyment of the trail. So, there's a lot of different safety factors that we look at. One thing that was pointed out is the under 18 needing a helmet. On an ebike, you have to be at least 15 years old to operate it, but you're not required to wear a helmet. Ebikes, a class one and class 2 can go 20 miles an hour. Class 3 can go 28 miles an hour. You don't need a helmet, but you got to be at least 15. If you're on a motorized foot scooter, it's limited to 15 miles an hour and you have to be at least 12 years old. But if you're under 18, you're required to wear a helmet. So, this just says blanket ordinance that says for safety purposes, if you're under 18, you're going to be on the roadways. you're going to be going faster than a traditional bicycle. You you're not always paying attention. We just got to think back to when we were teenagers and how we operated the world kind of more fearlessly than we do today. We just don't want to see anybody get hurt. >> So those other ages that you mentioned, I didn't see them in the ordinance, the 15 and the 12, >> in state um regulations. And so ordinances don't need to reflect all of state because it's already indicated in state law. So state statutes are the ones that dictate those. So typically state or ordinances don't duplicate what's already in existence. We uphold what is already in existence. >> Okay. So if I'm like a community member looking up our ordinances, would that 12 and 15 be already stated somewhere? >> Remember, those are not stated within our ordinances. When we look at writing ordinances, we want to keep them as simple as possible and easy enough to do. Um, if we look at the statutes on ebikes, it's one, two, three. There's four pages there. Page for the motorized scooter. And then we if we typed in all the definitions that'd be applicable to the discussion we're having tonight, we'd probably have three pages worth of definitions. >> Yeah. >> So, the one advantage is is that because it's already statute, it's already regulated. If we repeat that type of language and then the statute changes, because you know there's lobbyists and this just changed again this year. If it changes, then we would have to know that it changed and we'd want to make sure that our ordinance isn't in confrontation or conflict any of the language that the state has. So it's >> So then it's then it's just our job to communicate out like these are already state statues reminder that these are the age >> requirements. So like the website says all the age things on there. So that's where people are going to be going to that >> that Yeah. That's part of um when I referenced our communication strategy. Um a lot of that information is shared within that platform. And so while it might not necessarily be in our ordinance, um we are putting it in our trail safety online and in a lot of our information that's going out, um you'll see it in the fall catalog that's coming out. Um and so we do have that information that we're communicating as the city because we do want the residents to be able to be informed about what those state um statutes are because we are seeing you know violations of that happening within our um city and so we want to make sure that people are informed um that those are um what is already expected of them. Um and so we're helping to try to decipher some of that. Um but the ordinance itself is only intended to be what we uphold in addition to state statutes. >> So is the will the city be responsible through its law enforcement contracts to enforce this law including within the three rivers park district which is in the city of Victoria. chair. Um, with respect to law enforcement and the enforcement, a lot of that discretion is going to come down to the the sheriff and their operation and how they would like to enforce it and things like that because they are the experts in law enforcement. The primary role for the city is to get something that helps better clarify in our ordinance and gives law enforcement a tool um to use if they need to as well as going through the the massive communication process of educating the public on what to do to minimize that risk. But as far as direct enforcement, law enforcement is going to be at their own discretion to be able to do that, which is in the rights of the of the sheriff's uh office. >> Okay. And I would assume that if after the education, if this continues to be a problem, that city staff would be in communication with the sheriff's office to say this is an ongoing problem in our community. We'd like to have you uh focus more on this. >> Chair, that is correct. If once this goes into place, there's going to be a period where the communication is getting out and you're going to see a decrease of complaints at least at the staff level. Then that complaint is going to go back up and eventually it settles down to a certain level. When it gets to that level, there's going to be highs and lows going to spike off it, especially depending on the season, depending on events, depending on how much people pay attention. When you drive home, how many yellow cars do you see? Well, you probably see a couple, but you don't pay attention because you're not looking for yellow cars. So when we're talking about ebikes and that type of stuff, we're looking more at them. So we're going to see them more frequently, which is a good thing for safety, but we're also looking to see what are they doing and are they doing it appropriately. So as those complaints come in, that'll be a decision uh that'll be made by the city's management team. Um, but all that stuff will be communicated through uh the parks director uh as well through the senior leadership on if changes need to be made or if there's course corrections that would better help educate. >> Okay, any other questions? Yeah, I'm I'm really glad that this topic has come up. Um because uh just two weeks ago, I was driving down Victoria Drive and right by the church there and a kid shot out right as I was driving past and did a wheelie all the way down the hill. And then even today crossing uh Victoria Drive and five, kid doing a wheelie across the intersection there where there's plenty of cars around. I'm I'm glad that this is brought up. This is it's becoming a serious danger, I think. I don't see this ending very well. Um, I guess I I I think a conversation that our committee needs to have in the future is h how should we be messaging back to law enforcement how often or if this needs to be enforced more. Um, just because I mean over the last two weeks, that's what I've seen. And I think that that's I don't want to see a kid get hurt um especially when they're young and potentially making just a bad decision because they're just having fun. But also going off of that, I do want them to be able to have fun. These things are they're they're cool, you know, like you should be able to use these things and go out and have fun. And I think working with the Three Rivers District is a really good idea there, especially in the Carver Park Reserve. You got the kind of the bike trails back there uh by the horse track that's or the horse uh loop over there. There is that kind of like bike spot down there. And I'm wondering if we could find a way to have almost like a motorized bike, electric bike area or something along those lines over there because it would give these kids a spot to go and do that where they're not next to a road, not next to cars, a spot that's meant for those those specific purposes. Um I think that that would be a good conversation for us to have going forward and potentially work with the three of us to to try and get that to happen. and chair and members. um if there are comments, complaints, concerns, and things like that, we do have a general um concern link on the city's website that'll come into the city hall, and they'll get directed the appropriate staff. And then we do track that type of stuff. And we do look into what comments are coming in, what who do we need to reach out to if there's certain errors or community or things like that that we're going to that we're seeing more problems with ebikes, more concerns from residents. We would highly encourage using that method. It puts it in writing. It provides us contact information to follow up with questions or figure out what's going on. In addition, that it creates a record that better helps staff understand. We're not in every neighborhood every single day. We don't necessarily see that type of stuff the way that that everybody does from their front steps because city hall's over here got neighborhoods all the way. So just would be the best way to go. It's right underneath the uh the residents tab to report a concern. >> I can take that away and I can do do better on that portion for sure. And I think maybe another thing for us to consider is as we're talking about these new parks and these underdeveloped parks and things along those lines. We talked about that last meeting. >> Maybe that's an option for something that hasn't been on the board before. something to consider if we consider if we continue to see this usage of of motorized bikes spike like this. I mean, they have these huge dirt tires. Maybe there's something that we could do there to help >> at least increase the safety of the kids being able to use them and have fun without, you know, putting them at risk of going down Victoria Drive. It's not a great idea. So, >> absolutely. >> Could we look at the the updated text again? So it seems like the modifications are mainly that or clarifying that you can use an electric assisted bicycle. Yes. Um but the definition um is to clarify what an ebike is because um if you um think back on this slide, this ebike, this one here, that's the one that is going these excessive speeds and things like this. Um people confuse these two quite frequently. um these types of ebikes um they can go um a pretty quick speed. Um but typically the people who are utilizing these are using them responsibly. Um obviously not everybody but for the most part these ones are used um in a manner um that is electric assisted versus these ones where um this one they may or may not have pedals on them. A lot of the bikes that are um going those faster speeds are ones that just have straight pegs. Um so they resemble much more of like a small motorcycle or a dirt bike or things like that. Um and so the definition part is the um part that is the bigger picture of what these are because the electric assisted bikes are the only ones permitted on trails whereas the electric bikes that are more of like the dirt bike um motor scooter motorcycle types those ones are not um eligible to be utilized on there. And so that's why it's very key to know what the definitions of each of these are. So you'll see in here they may operate electric assisted, not an ebike, not a fully electric bike. >> And and I think that the wording is is good for now because we don't have a spot for for in in a park or in a in the Carver Parkers River or whatever to to to use the fully um electric bikes, but we could always amend it in the future whenever we do have a spot planned for that. And I think that that that might be a good plan. I think I I do have one additional question. You're talking about the classes of speeds. Um and I think you went up to class three which is I think you said 28 miles per hour or something along those lines. What about the ones that are faster? >> So that is a great question uh committee member. Um so with that ebikes have three classifications. You have class one, class two, class three and then you have what's called multi mode and that just means it can switch between them. Class one has pedals and does not have a throttle can do 20 miles an hour leer system. Class two, which is when we generally see these bikes, that's what we're seeing as class two. And they have a throttle and they can go up to 20 miles an hour on the throttle. Then you have a class three where it's just pedal assisted, no throttle, they can do up to 28 miles an hour. Those have very specific parameters that they need to sit in to be classified as a class one, two, or three. If they're not classified as a one, two, or three, then they could be considered a moped. Well, mopeds have certain definitions, but you can't drive a moped on the sidewalk. That's the vehicle for the road. If you have um an ebike, fully electric bike that can do say 50 miles an hour, you have a motorcycle. >> Got it. Okay. >> And at that point, >> you need a driver's license. >> Motor. >> Yeah. >> So, um and also keep in mind um with these class 1, two, and three, even if they can go 20 or 28 miles an hour, our ordinance still says the speed limit on our parks and trails is 15 miles an hour. And so even at that point, like if they're going to be going higher than that, then they need to be on a on the street. >> Street. >> Okay. Thank you. >> From an education side, I'm a road biker, so totally see a lot more now moving onto the roads. If you get them off the trails, what guidance are we giving for those that are you go on the shoulder or is it safe to ride? Is the guidance just go on the side of the road? Kind of how are we implementing that? So uh committee member um ebikes can operate the same as a bicycle can in all legal respects as long as class one two or three right. >> So with that being said there is there is guidelines that are listed underneath the state statute of where bike should go to educate putting that type of language in. It was obviously written by a politician, so it's it's a little bit it's not as straightforward in plain text. Um, but with the communication that goes out, if you're if you're a kid on a bicycle or even adult on a bicycle and you're on the shoulder and then you switch from a bicycle to an ebike and you're on the shoulder, you should be playing by the same rules going forward. As far as safety goes, as safety concerns come up, as ebikes become more and more popular, they're nothing new that just showed up this year. they've been around for five years or so, at least from my recollection. Um, we'll address those as we need to with the communication strategy, and that'll be handled through the parks and recck director as well as the communications department and the city senior management staff. >> Okay. So, we'll kind of unravel the state jargon and put it in a readable format. >> Okay. >> Just had a more general question about like this type of ordinance. Uh obviously there's state law but do we work with like market cities or community cities when we develop this kind of >> Yeah. So a lot of the research that was happened in putting in this is one we for sure we start with communicating with our um neighboring cities and organizations. So Three Rivers and Carver County were ones that we heavily tapped into to pull information from especially as we do overlap in some areas. So we want to make sure that the rules don't change depending upon which trail you're on. And so, um, we first started there, um, and then Travis did a lot of research, um, with our neighboring cities, market cities who are having the same types of issues, um, in order to be able to find, uh, commonalities that, um, have been successful in other communities. >> Okay. Any other final comments? >> I have I have a couple. one uh is clarity around whether or not um the scooters and ebikes are allowed on the skate park because I have seen them on that and I think when I looked at the website it said ebikes are allowed wherever well wherever bikes are allowed well you allow bikes and scooters on the skate park but do you want the electric ones allowed there so I think you have to think about that >> thank you member um to that point I'd have I would ask if we wanted to put that in as a restriction. That'd be something that I'd have to consult the city attorney on just to make sure we do it in the correct way, whether it be ordinance, whether it be signage or a policy or something like that. Um, one thing with it is if someone uses an ebike or scooter, it doesn't change any liability concerns with the city as it's still their discretion to use it. just to know like some of those ebikes are heavy and if you know you're crashing on the equipment at the skate park would they be doing some damage to our equipment too? So I >> if I was a parent and my kid had an ebike and I found out they went to the skate park and smashed a $2,000 bicycle. I don't think that would be a very fun conversation. >> Um and then I had one other um comment. I did look at some of our neighboring cities to see what they had on their websites and one I found had an an FAQ that said, um, if my child is under 15 and using ebike with supervision, is that still okay? Is that okay? Of course, the answer is no. But I think we have to be really blunt about some of these things because I think parents just think, you know, well, if I'm watching them and they're under 12 and they're riding a motorized scooter, is that okay? You know, in my on our culde-sac or whatever. I think we just have to be really black and white with some of these rules because um and maybe that's an FAQ section or something like that for the website. >> Okay. Any other comments? >> I just have a question on this last bullet point as I'm rereading it. The very last bullet point, it's defining a motorized foot scooter and then the last sentence in it. What it seems repetitive, but I'm sure there's a reason that last sentence is in there. Can you like tell us more about that? >> Committ member, the definitions that you see in the draft ordinance are direct copy and paste out of state statute. >> Oh, okay. >> That way we weren't trying to reinvent the definitions what something was. >> We just let statute do it for us >> and try to keep it simple, which is the simple ones. Like I said, we could put in a lot more, but yes, it is it is a little repetitive, but probably the most important thing in here, it says a motorcycle is not a motorized foot scooter. >> Okay. Anything else? If not, a motions in order to recommend this ordinance to the city council. >> So moved. >> Okay. Motion's been made. >> I'll second. >> Motion's been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Okay. All those in favor of recommending uh this ordinance to the city council signify by saying >> I oppose saying nay. Motion carried. Thanks Travis. >> Thanks Janna for putting this together. I think gonna have the work cut out for you now to >> because uh the discussion we had with this is imagine now the other 10,500 people in our community. >> Absolutely. So >> um for full transparency, we will be bringing this to council for uh them to officially adopt it. And so there's still a chance that they might um have recommendations, but um I will bring bring this forward as it being approved by the parks and recreation committee. >> Yeah. Well, thanks for taking the initiative to put it together. That's great. Okay, moving right along. Uh the next item uh deals with uh our trails. So, Jenna, you want to >> Yes. >> Um so, trails is an ongoing conversation that we have here in the city. Um there are a number of things that we're doing to try to address um the trails and uh that includes addressing trail gaps. It includes um trail maintenance um repaving um things like that. Um with our transportation projects, we have a lot of trails that are being addressed um along with this. And so um I wanted to provide some clarity as to what is coming up and um kind of drum up some excitement of the things that we will be seeing. Um, and then in addition to that, I'll also be going over um, some of the sections of our existing trails that have been worked on this year. Um, and then give you a heads up as to kind of where we're going from here. Um, and then we will have a chance to revisit our prioritization list as it will stand with all of these projects. So, we um, I'm sure you guys are all aware of all of the lovely transportation projects happening in the city. Um it is um a lot of work that's happening, but it is a lot of wonderful things that will be um coming our way once it's complete. And so we do have a few major transportation projects that are happening. Um and quite a few of them impact the city of Victoria. And so uh the ones that impact our trails, um I will go through each of these. Um, and I will say, um, we've mentioned this at, um, our meetings beforehand, um, but it has been indicated as a preference from council to include, um, new trails, um, and trail gaps to be included into, um, included in conjunction with, um, street projects, um, transportation projects, things like that. Um and so um we are priv privileged that there is a lot of our trails um that are going to be positively impacted by um our upcoming transportation projects. So first um this is a um just a list of all of the um impacts that the Highway 5 project is going to do. I will break it down and talk a little bit more about each of these, but um an overarching is that we we're going to have safety improvements along the Rolling Acres and Bavaria Road between that interlock and 78th Street. We'll have a pedest a few pedestrian under or overpasses. Um in the city, one uh overpass is going to be at 78th Street. Uh another underpass is going to connect Meline Creek Park to Park Drive. Um we will have a new trail along um the east side of Bavaria Road. Uh a pedestrian underpass um is going to route us to the regional trail under Rolling Acres. Um and this will increase a lot of safety um concerns for pedestrians. And then we are repaving a segment of trail um that will be just west of the Rolling Acres pedestrian crossing. So for the rolling acres road, Bavaria road, um it is a uh reconstructing um the road around there. Um this is going to be um providing a lot of safety improvements for pedestrians, bicyclists, and other non-motorized users. Um and it will have an upgraded crossing for the link Minnotonka Regional Trail. So this entire section um is being impacted um including um the trail system there. 78th Street will get a pedestrian overpass. And so here is a mockup of what um that image will look like. And so um it'll not only be very beneficial to our pedestrians, but it'll also be a pretty site um coming through um and provide opportunities for people to continue to utilize the areas in a safe manner. Uh we also have um a pedestrian overpass coming over or underpass um my apologies coming at um Meline Creek and so um you'll see it here. Um so it'll continue that trail system. Um you'll also see it on our map here that it is going um underneath to be able to um provide that safe access um across that very busy road. Then we've got our Bavaria trail um off of the road there that is um going to be continued. Um so this um stretch of trail um is getting uh resurfaced um and extended. We've also got the Tamarak Trail um that will be getting an underpass. Um, again, this is to increase safety and allow for people to continue moving along without impact to um any of the um transportation that is occurring on that road. Um, so it will be separating it um from it and provide opportunities for people to get across without having to wait on traffic. There's also a section of the Lake Mitanka Regional Trail that is getting paved and so um the section along this edge um is getting repaved as a part of this project. >> So is that going to be from uh down to the connect to the Altar to the city? >> Um a good portion of that area. So it's up to here. It may not cover that entire section that is unpaved, but it will cover that area. >> Okay. And then now we're moving on to the 82nd street project. So this project um is a continuation of the uh arboritum area transportation plan which um had already seen a portion of completion. Um one purpose of this project is to enhance the pedestrian access um and bicycle networks um to provide more safe connections. And so um we will see more of a trail impact along that street project. So, moving away from the transportation projects and more bringing this in-house, our um public works team and park maintenance staff um had completed a um replacement of a trail. So, this section after our winter um and some tree roots and things like that that were impacting the section, it be made it completely unusable. Um and so we did um completely uh replace this section here um in order to allow for that connection to still exist. Um and so that was replaced earlier this year. And then in addition to replacement, we did have a lot of maintenance happening this year. So we had a lot of sections receiving maintenance. So um some Milan overlay um had happened to improve these um sections in these communities. One of them being pictured here. Um so we've received um maintenance on those aspects. Um and then um our park maintenance team is working on a uh trail maintenance plan. And so this plan um is to establish the framework um of moving forward with how we prioritize trails, how they are being replaced, um maintaining um and this is getting set up to mirror how we do street maintenance plans. And that one is a pretty welloiled machine. And so, um, we're tagging on some of, um, the work that we're doing that's already proved to be very efficient and beneficial and moving it towards, um, our trail replacements and upgrades as well. Um, and just to um reiterate um some information um the city um as we are moving forward with addressing some of these trails um whether it be for maintenance, for gaps, for things like that um it is the city's um direct or directive um from council to prioritize um the things that we have. And so if we do have transportation plans that we can rope it in um they are being brought into um those projects. Uh we also are working to create um proper infrastructure to be able to address all of the trail projects um and maintenance for the trails that we currently have. Um and that foundation will help us get into a place where we can um approach the subject of incorporating additional trails in the future. Um because we want to be very good stewards of uh the trails that we already have. Um, and with the staffing that we have and the model that we currently have, um, we would be hesitant to add in anything new if if we weren't able to maintain what we already had. And so, um, we are getting ourselves into a better position to be able to do some more future planning to be able to work on some of these um, um, gaps that we see throughout the city um, and some potential trails that need to be happening. um especially as we have new developments coming, those are something that as many of you know, we do bring that into the conversation whenever developments are coming our way to ensure that trails um are a big priority and how we um move forward with approving those plans. Then next um this brings us to our trail gap prioritization. So, um thankfully um two with these transportation projects that are coming, not only did it give us a few extra bonuses, but it did take away um two of our um priority um items. Um one being our number one priority item and then our number seven priority item. And so um this is kind of um I just lost my train of thought. Um but this is showing that um we are bringing these uh into our discussions when we are having these um conversations as to um the street projects and um things like that as we move forward. And so uh these trail gaps are being addressed as soon as we are able to bring them into um the light with our trails um and street projects. So with that, >> okay, so first question like to have us discuss is are there any recommendations as how we should communicate the changes coming to our trails before and after construction? >> So then this is specific to the arburetum area transportation plan. The first part of what you shared Uh this is in any situation where there's trails and updates. Um so there was a comment from the public that um there was a lack of communication. And so part of this is um how can we make sure that the public is still informed about where we're at, what's going on, um things like that. Like what would be the best method of communicating that information out? I think one thing on that it would be important I I think just the communication plan in itself is good but I I think to emphasize that it's uh going to be you know that we realize this is still a priority of the community. I mean last I don't know what the current survey is going to say uh but the last two surveys we had and I think when I first came on this that was a number one priority from our residents and the last survey we did it was second after water feature. So, um I think it's important that we acknowledge that we as a community, uh the city recognizes that's the need and here are the things that we're doing about it. And probably also explain why we're putting emphasis on certain things like you've articulated in your presentation about, you know, repairing what we have. um focusing in on um you know those things that the council's directed uh staff and our committee to focus in on those things where their street projects. Um I think the better we do that uh better off we're going to be. And I think when we I guess the next question addresses uh my next question so I'll wait to that one. Other comments? >> I guess just from a communication standpoint, it using multiple channels. I know I recall when the street projects first were kind of presented seeing a a pamphlet and I think even some social media around it but I think just con continually making updates to the messaging on what we're doing in connection with those projects or for trail gap prioritization and just make a social campaign but then like update it like when the project starts coming closer to starting and then progress updates like kind of like reminders, right? Just having like that drip of information would be helpful of keeping it top of mind for folks. Um because sometimes you hear this and then it's like, okay, the project's not starting for like a year or >> 18 months. Yeah. Right. Like >> and and it's like, okay, well, this is this is coming, but it >> you you forget about it, >> right? I think uh one question that I do have for you guys because in full transparency due to the um limitations of some of the projects that are on this transportation list um we are transparent on our website with the prioritization list. We do have indicated on each of them like what the considerations would have to be like we'd have to get rightway access which is a big project. Um there might be we might have to construct a boardwalk, we might have to deal with wetland issues, things like that. So, a lot of the um trail gaps that exist um I' like I'd say a good majority of the ones that exist actually have some significant barriers to them, especially any that require a boardwalk being built. You're talking millions of dollars to construct, which means many, many years before we would have the financial infrastructure to be able to address it. And so I guess one question that I have in in light of that is um what would be the best way to communicate um with the public if there's no news for a while? Um because I think that's part of the um the frustration that I've heard from um some of the residents is that nothing's happening. But it's not that nothing's happening. It's just that we're not yet in a financial situation or potentially um because some of our trail gaps also include private residences. And so, um, as the city, we we're not going to take away someone's private residence. So, um, some of that is like they would have to be willing to, um, allow us to do that. And so, we do have some barriers in terms of that where we have private property that, um, we wouldn't be able to acquire the land unless it was given to us. And so, how would you, um, think that the community would like to be communicated with when there isn't necessarily a change that is happening in the foreseeable future? We do have project page. So if there is a project that we do have going on, we do have a project page where we do update that and we can certainly do um social media campaigns, but in light of the ones that there might not be any news for a while. >> I think it's really cool how you like know this is the gap. This is what we need to get it like to accomplish it. I think it's I think the public probably just doesn't know this is what it takes to get this trail built and maybe a series on like the top 10 campaigns that we know these are gaps. this is what it would take to knock it down. That transparency could be helpful, >> especially the the expenditures. >> So, I'm looking at something that's quite old over here, Jenna, but and I don't know if this is like published public, but I I have it from being on the committee. So, there was like a fund um number 812 trail fund budget sheet that I'm looking at and it listed out the priority expendure expenditures and it listed out these these trail gaps >> and then it this this document started in year 2019 and went to 2028 and it listed out like what investment the city had already expended. did on like I'm sure this was um for example the first one on the list was the Green Crest sidewalk which is that tiny little sidewalk from that neighborhood to um >> Victoria Drive, right? And and it got really completed really just this summer, right? >> Yeah. Mhm. >> And um so back in 2021, there must have been a survey or whatnot that we had to pay for to to see how much that project was going to cost down the road. And then there was an expenditure at the time in this budget for 2023. and and like I know not everyone's gonna be looking at this like I appreciate it but it shows you that hey we are investing in this this survey this you know of what it's going to take us to do this trail project. And then in this case, there was a few of them on here that were planned expenditures down the road so that someone could see, well, here's the trail gap that I'm really interested in and I I don't see it on here until like 2028, for example. So, like that they could see, yes, it's still a priority, but it's not coming till 2028. So, I don't know if this is like updated in public. It is >> part of part of the issue, you know, I I didn't realize until I was on this committee is how incredibly expensive >> this is. I mean that East Bavaria uh trail I think was I don't know was hundreds of thousands you know and one thinks well you know 40,000 we can you know we can do four blocks well no there's a lot more involved than that so it's it's expensive and while we all want I think on this committee would love to have all those trail gaps filled as would a lot of the city residents we are also So, competing with other projects that the city needs like new uh lift stations and water towers and fire stations and whatever else. Uh that doesn't mean that it's still not something we'd like to do. But I think if we could communicate too that, you know, these are still important, but there are also other things that um, you know, are out there too that um, barring some unforeseen way to finance these. And we did have a meeting here a few years ago where we had um, the city finance director come in and explain what our options were. and there weren't many unfortunately. Uh so I think the just continue I think the ongoing communications importantness was brought up but I think also um and that's kind of a fine line too because you start throwing around those numbers then everybody that doesn't use the trails or like say well why are we spending any money on this you know it's a waste of time because I don't use it type thing. So, it's a uh we have a really good communications staff here and I Jenna does a a nice job as well. So, I'm pretty confident that you'll be able to try something, get something out there that's going to be successful. And if it isn't, uh you'll go back to assess that and go back and find something that that does work. But it's it's it's a difficult situation. And then I >> other comments. >> Obviously the park signs have been really I think successful this year from like within the park. This is this is the park we want feedback on. I wonder it'd be a little tongue and cheek, but could you go and have a sign this is this is we know this is a trail gap. Learn more about what we're trying to do about it >> and let people know that we do know this is a gap and we're it's on our list to fix. >> The other that's an excellent point. You know, the other thing I was wondering too is if there's a uh one of the things on the trail gaps was to make sure that people could get like downtown was one of the the key things when we looked at this a number of years ago. Um you know, I wonder if there's a way also to show an alternative route that we can go on trails even though there's a trail gap here. While you might go another half mile out of your way or two miles out of your way, that there's an alternative way to get to where you want to go without having to spend, you know, $900,000 or $1.5 million that we don't have right now. Um, the other the other thing too, you know, we talked about the, you know, the extended time 1920 or 1928, >> 2019 20 uh you know 2028 or something was uh you know where we have something I think >> I think to a certain extent uh that's that would be good to show on the other hand it also might be setting up an expectation that now it's 2027 and somebody's been patiently waiting for 3 years to get their trail gap and now >> there's five other things that need to happen that um may take precedence over that. So, I think we have to be careful with that. Um, you know, because I I think that could cause some some problems down the road, expectations that that can't be met or if we're if we're going to do that, we'd have to explain very carefully that this is a preliminary plan. And uh here are um some caveats to to keep in mind. And I think those numbers have changed too because those numbers are old. Those are all based on old engineering numbers and costs have gone up. So the cost to do those trail connections are actually going to be higher than what those numbers are. >> And I I like the idea of showing the alternative routes. And I think, you know, we're all I think everyone's on board with, right, consistent and transparent communication. But I think too, right, uh maybe we could also include and shift the focus of like a year in review or something like uh or or a quarterly like what have we done like and and show what what progress has been made or what what is currently in progress to show you know we we understand and we're communicating about what where these gaps are, where the issues are and we're we're working towards that. We can't some of these we can't put a defined year on when they'll be completed, but here are the positives. Here are the connections that have been made. Here are the um updates that there are and focus on that and kind of remind people like, yeah, there's been a lot of positive going on. So, it's not just sitting on hands and not having funds and not making any progress. It's just in in different areas. >> Yeah, I'd like to piggy back off of that. I think that that's exactly what should happen is is that also not just trail gaps but almost like yeah like a year in review for the parks or a quarterly almost newsletter or something along those lines where um because it's not just trail trail gaps it's new parks it's uh redoing other parks it's there's there's plenty of other outflow that we're experiencing there and I think that that transparency would one add in a lot of value there um but the second one I I haven't seen the prioritization ation um portion of the website for like reasonings on X Y and Z on why they're prioritizing specific portions, but um I think it would be good to almost I haven't seen it again, but maybe maybe something like that needs to be even further expanded uh in in more depth of how how are we truly prioritizing that? Cuz when I see prioritization, I I go, who's making the decision? Who's making that priority? Is it because somebody was louder than the other person? Or is it based off of X, Y, and Z metrics? Like almost like a like a matrix of here are the points that we assign to these things because this fell into a range of $150,000 to $300,000. So, it was scored a three and because it hit this number, that's why it's lower than this one. I think that that's a pretty fair way to say, okay, yeah, like that that's why it's ranked here because of this uh amount of um we'd have to go into private property. that's like it might be a non-starter in some situations, but being able to see that and somebody can look up this trail gap between X, Y, and Z or some sort of nomer that you you can search for and be able to see what what the rationalization of where that landed would be really helpful and and create some clarity for for the folks who care about that trail gap specifically. to that point. Uh given council's direction to sort of emphasize the trails that can trail gaps can be closed like with road construction projects or with other development projects. Uh like our prioritization list is good, but it doesn't really correspond to like how things are prioritized in reality. Um, and I think kind of finding a way to the extent that we can to say like here are the upcoming projects that could involve trail construction or trail improvements. Um, and you know, even, you know, linking or just saying that these are being, you know, coordinated by the county or whoever the state. Um, and like here's contacts for citizens to reach out to those departments. Um because I think I mean one thing that I think is difficult with it and with trails in general is that there's so many overlapping sort of administrators that it can be hard to figure out like whose trail is this even. >> Don't disagree with that. We do have a lot of trails that are owned by other agencies besides just the city here. You know, one of the one of the things too over the at least the last few years, um you know, there's some gaps that things are already off the list that were on there at one time just because of developments like the the one that comes to mind. Uh you mentioned earlier the sidewalk thing, the what is it? Green >> greenest. >> Greenrest. But the the biggest one is the Coachia uh that when they put that new road in >> Yep. uh that that trail that connects uh to connects several >> 78th Street. Yeah, it was down here. >> The other the other thing too is um not that we get lost in the conversation, but uh we did fund uh the city did fund the trail on Bavaria, east side of Bavaria from the Chasa City >> uh line to is that 82nd Street. Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So that part was there and unfortunately we had that basically whole thing was going to be done and uh we actually had obtained a grant for $150,000 but uh uh we had to turn that back in because we couldn't get a private owner to give us right away. So we had to give that up unfortunately. But now with the road construction or the arboritum plan now that's going to get done. So I guess um keep looking for those types of opportunities and I I think it's um that seems to be a a wise way to go to focus in on those because it's all being done at the same time. It's got to be cheaper to do. Mhm. >> It's not cheap, but it's cheaper to do when you got other things going on there and the engineering and the paving and all that. So other comments um you know I guess to address a question that came up earlier um you know how do we address those is maybe just through better communication as to what we can and can't do at the present time. Were you looking for us to prioritize change those trail things that this time or >> not to change just does it impact the list beyond it being removed? >> All right. >> Can you put up >> is this the order the prioritization order? >> What was your trail gap? >> Yeah, please. >> I need a master class in council etiquette. So, I promise next time I come home. >> Um, I did not see the Lake Bridge Cray Lakes on here. >> Does that that was the extension one, I think. Do you know what I'm talking? It's the funny >> you have on there. The MLRT Lake Bridge >> um which was number eight. It was like Yeah, that one. The >> the uh Lake Bridge, the LMRT. What I'm talking about is the one once you get to Lake Bridge, you go there's a you go past you go into Cray Lakes. And they had cleared that a couple years ago. Um and people were actually using the trail. Um and now the city has a there's a sign uh that's been there for a couple years. It's one of those like a like a roadblock sign. You know what I'm talking about? >> Interesting. I mean I know what the roadblock sign is. Yes. >> Yeah. Well, no, I know. I just mean like there's does anyone I mean there's got to be there's got to be tracked somewhere. The city went in and cleared it. We saw them clearing it and cutting trees and all the things like it was a big project. So, um I'm happy to take some pictures or maybe connect with somebody that could come and take a look at it just to show what I'm talking about >> and maybe bring it to Jenna. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I can chat with you. >> Does it go south? >> Yeah. So, if like but >> yeah so the dirt road or excuse me the you you let's pretend like the um the the Kirk Lockan Park to Lakebridge neighborhood LMRT is done once you you get to the end of that where it is today you go take a right and go up the hill and you're in Lake Bridge >> if you go you don't have to do that like you can go straight so if that's south I think that is actually south they cleared that all the way around >> to um work connects back up because there's also another trail that's halfway down. That's so funny that no one remembers the work that was done that was a while ago. >> Okay. Well, maybe maybe if you could just bring that to Jenna and then we'll >> Yeah. And that could be something there. Um as it was mentioned earlier, we have like a submit a comment or concern online. So, there's a form that you can fill out that you can attach um pictures to and if it's submit a parks and recreation comment or concern, you could that'll get directly wired to me. And so you can submit any of that to me or you could email me. >> Okay. Yeah, I'll do that because it's it's actually a little dangerous back there because there's things that hadn't been cut all the way and so people are of course using it even though there's the >> it's you know you're not supposed to but >> thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. other. So, anything we want to do with this other than this was more to show us how the arburetum project and the road projects and we're going to affect this list. So, we're crossing a couple of them off it looks like. >> Well, so do we think that this trail would be part of this Kirk Locken number eight? >> Uh most so >> it isn't. It's not. So >> yeah, that's a difference. >> And I wonder if that could have been >> right. Hold on. Let me pull up the website. >> I don't think that's what she's describing as was even under consideration ever since I've been on this committee. >> That so that's past. So there's currently a trail between Watermark and Lake Bridge >> that was part of the rail line. Um, and so the gap is between Kirk Lockan and that trail on this side, but then it goes further on the other side. >> And the county had a master plan which is still exists that they were going to try to connect that trail sort of around Cray Lake down to Rap City. >> Yeah. So, you know what I'm talking about. >> And so, it was a county project. >> It could have been. >> Yeah. uh >> because I don't see it on this like budget thing from 2019. >> Um and I apologize. I'm not super familiar with the area that you're talking about, but if it is a county um area, then that would be why it wouldn't have been developed. Um but I can look into it and find that out. >> They started it >> because they have a long-term plan to connect Victoria to to Chaza and it's like 50% complete. The >> the other thing on this gap prioritization is I've seen this several times, se several different iterations of this and I'm pretty sure that we had the Lake Bridge neighborhood thing up higher like >> second or third. >> So I don't I don't know what happened along the way. >> Yeah. >> U but >> um it seems to me we had that higher >> um >> well the the this one does include the Lake Bridge area. So, >> which one does >> the number two >> two? >> Oh, okay. >> And that one was the one that we >> Which of these are like the most difficult? Like if on a scale of 1 to 10, is there a way to tell? >> The ones that are the most difficult are the ones that require boardways and grant getting granted right of access because those are going to be the ones that are going to be either the most legal battle or um financial cost. >> Like two, three, four. or are those all kind of are those the most complex ones to do? >> Um, not necessarily, but um any of the ones that require the boardwalk? It >> ju just a history lesson here. Um going back when I first got involved with this maybe eight years ago um we went over this and we came up I think Mary was on as well at the time. There was crit there was like four or five five different criteria things like cost uh ease to do uh number of residents that would most benefit from this. So a whole bunch of different things >> here I I have it. >> Okay. >> Um connection opportunity. So that was like connection opportunity to other um communities and other trail networks. Yep. and downtown. Um, local connection impact was another ranking. Public support, cost, environmental sensitivity, uh, engineering difficulty. So those were all ranked on those by a point system >> and and you know I think I I recall the committee root I mean we spent several meetings and I know my hair was black then um so I mean it was not easy and and certainly there was no perfect system but it was a system to at least try to come up with something. I think the most important thing is whether something's right or ninth or sixth or whatever is we got a list and the city council's direction is to um tie these into the projects that are ongoing whether it's new developments or uh road construction or whatever. So, we got the list and so I think it's going to be important for us as one of these comes up and there's going to be, you know, some construction or new development or whatever that we take uh we m we make sure that we address those and I'm I'm which we are um and which is evident by the arboritum project that we're paying attention to that and the new developments and I've said this many times is it's very important as those new developments come up that we get the trails right away because you see the difficulty after the fact. It's a whole lot more difficult to do and a lot more expensive and it you know makes it more difficult to have it ever happen. And I think that those metrics, exactly what we're talking about there, that would be really important to show on the website for going back to the original point of the communication side, being able to see those and where each one of those scored and essentially, you know, why it would hit in that that specific metric. That would be that I think that'd be really helpful for the communication side of things. So yeah, I think that that would that that would fit for purpose there. other comments for >> I thought in the last discussion we had about the gap number five here that that was going to be included in the arburedum transportation plan. So, but it sounds like maybe the whole thing's not going to be paid. Now, >> that one is um uh the section that is owned by the county. Um and so I'm not 100% sure if the entire is included in that project >> is to yeah that one that was a surprise because my understanding was the same as Jacobs is that we're going to connect from uh Bav well it's rolling acres to to downtown right here >> down where the car starts down here and while while there's a trail there which is nice It isn't so nice after a heavy rain or in the spring. Really not usable in the winter. Um, and I know there's two or three different entities that are involved there from the three rivers to the railroad district to the city, the county. I don't know how many, but it just seems like it'd be a lot cheaper to going to have all the equipment there anyway. And it's but anyway, but it would be good to clarify exactly what that is and how far it goes. >> Absolutely. I can do that. >> Okay. Other thoughts, comments? Did you get what you I'm sorry. >> I just had a question for Jacob. Where did you find the Carver County um list of trails? I'm just I find that so interesting that I want to like >> familiarize myself with it too. >> There's a county page that lists trails that are in the county and some of them are like owned by the county and not some of them aren't but it just has kind of different statuses and one of them is that one between Victoria and Jas. There's a master plan >> that I think was originally published in like 2005 or something like that and they updated it more recently. >> They Okay, they did. Okay. That master plan, by the way, we looked at when we did the update because that was one of the things that uh or back when we first were doing this is that there's a regional master plan to hook major trails together and that's probably what you're talking about the update at one is and I think that had us rank certain trails as more higher than others is That was part of that system. >> Mhm. >> Um, okay. Anything else? Jenna, did you get what you needed from us? >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, if anybody has a spare several million dollars they don't know what to do with, you could always donate to the city >> for trails. >> Yeah. >> Trail gaps. >> Fair. I think too that you have mentioned for us a few times now that like you're restructuring the trail gap fund and you're looking for >> well not restructuring the trail gap fund but we're looking for sources >> yeah a way to >> prepare um a little bit more proactively. >> Yeah. So, um I think it would be helpful like in this um information I'm reading it like it's said in here so that people are aware um that trail connections are not supported by bonding and are paid for in cash with available fund balance. So maybe some additional language by this trail gap prioritization of of that funding structure. Um because then it did link to, you know, it linked to the general fund and how um the council approves appropriations from that um general fund for trail gaps specifically and planned projects. because this one this this is outdated but um at the time like um there was $20 million in trail gap projects to be funded over the next 25 to 35 years just to give every like I think that's that's >> big number >> a big number right and the and it's saying to be funded over the next 25 to 30 years like that is telling telling us these aren't all going to be funded by, you know, 2028, right? Um so I don't know if that language can be >> um updated and included. You know, one thing on the communication plan too is uh I don't know how many of you are uh you know, signed up or if maybe everybody gets or have access to the there's like a whole bunch of city things that come out, newsletters or >> post or whatever. If you're not on those, uh I'd encourage you to sign up for them because a lot of this information is on there and it's really good. Um, but I wonder if there's a way for us outside of social media to encourage people to sign up for those things because maybe they don't know they exist. Um, the other thing that that I think is I find helpful too, you can also sign up well I think it's maybe another thing you can just sign up for. you get notices of the upcoming meetings and uh I know I always read like the planning commission, you know, minutes and the city council I mean all that stuff's in city council update uh recap of their meetings. There's a whole bunch of interesting stuff and it's I think it's very well done. Uh, so we could somehow find an additional way to get more people to tap into those things. It would be great. I don't know what the answer to that is, but crack communication staff can probably figure out a way to get more people to go on those sites. >> Yeah. which to that point um you had um committee member you'd mentioned earlier about doing some sort of quarterly update or you know some sort of like a publication newsletter. So we do include any projects that are coming up in our parks and recreation newsletters and those do go out regularly. Okay. >> Um and so we do already have that sort of a platform to communicate and so if people are signed up for those um then they are already getting that information. >> Awesome. >> Yeah. Maybe that's something that we could do to because I'm newer to Victoria. Um, but you know, as as we Carver and Victoria itself is growing rapidly and maybe that's something we we should talk about maybe this this winter or something along those lines of like how can we plan next summer when we see the most engagement with these parks and how can we um influence more people to sign up for the newsletter for the uh any sort of email blast that we can do. It sounds strange because I'm trying to get off of most email chains, but this is one that I think is important, especially in the city that you're trying to, you know, you you want to see get better. So, um, yeah, maybe that's something that we should we could kind of plan for uh for for the next year on how we can get more folks uh in the know of what's happening. >> Anything else we want to do this evening? Okay. Uh, hearing none. Uh any other business? Okay. A motion be order to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> Second. It is a