Good evening everyone. Uh I'd like to call the meeting to order. Uh we'll this is the November 17th park and wreck committee meeting. Uh we'll do a roll call like we normally do. Servitary >> Terry Cole, >> Adam Der, Chris Casey, >> Larry Schulz, >> Amanda Cahill, Mary Larson, >> Jacob Paul, >> Alyssa [snorts] Nelson, assistant city manager, >> and Jenna Smith, parks and art director. >> Okay, thanks. The first item on our agenda is approval of the minutes of the October 20th, 2025 meeting. Uh, they were sent out to you in the packet. Does anybody have any corrections to make? If not, a motion that would be in order to approve those minutes. >> Um, yep. I have a correction. Um, in the minutes it accidentally states that the meeting was on August 18th, 2025, um, not October 20th, 2025. And one thing like I I thought it was missing a little bit was it and especially since this is on the agenda for tonight that it didn't sound like um as much of a concern was expressed by Mary and I about the the soccer field and we did say there was a concern about it being in a neighborhood just like the language that was uh bulleted pointed about a concern about a splash pad being in a neighborhood as well. So, I just feel like I even use the words I feel that residents are going to be upset by a soccer field in their neighborhood. And so, I just um think that the same bullet point could apply to the soccer field as was placed in the minutes for the splash pad. >> How did you vote? I mean, we all voted for it. So, it's whether it's the discussions in material, it's the actual motion that's probably more important. But anybody want to change you want to change that? I mean, I think it's listed in there that we considered parking as an issue. And >> yeah, there was a bullet point on traffic. Agree. But I'm just saying there's a bullet point on splash pad that says the committee expressed a concern over a splash pad being in a neighborhood and I feel like that same bullet point could be included on the soccer field cuz Mary and I did express that. >> Okay. Fine. Any other things that people want to add or change? Want to make a motion? Sure. I motion to revise the minutes to reflect that the meeting occurred on August 18th or did not occur on August 18th, 2025, but did occur on October 20th, 2025 and that uh the similar bullet point as was in there for the splash pad be included for the soccer field. >> Okay. Is there a second to that motion? >> I'll second. Okay. Any further discussion? Okay. Uh all those in favor of that motion indicate by saying I. >> I. >> Those opposed say no. Motion carried. Thank you. Uh next item of business uh is the any petitions, proclamations, suggestions, or complaints from citizens, committee members, or staff? Does anybody here want to speak this evening? Apparently not. the city council. >> Um I'm we made a recommendation and [snorts] we're taking we can take public comments. We we're not in a discussion type format here. So if you'd like to make a comment about something, you're more than welcome to. Dana, do you >> Okay. Yeah, please. Thank you, Chair Schultz, members of the commission. Um, just to address address the question briefly uh that was asked about what that whe when something's going to the council. Just also for the record, my name is Dana Hardy. I'm the city manager. um the council. So where we are in the process is that the committee is make reviewing um and will make a recommendation to the council and the council will consider this as a 2026 project. So any details specific to the uh recommendations and the project itself uh will go before council at a future date likely sometime in 2026 where there will be further discussion. There'll be um um budget application as well. So, the council won't have this item before them until sometime in 2026. That date yet to be determined. >> Okay. >> Thank you, chair. >> Thank you. Thanks, Dana. >> I had a question city. Okay, we're kind of way ahead of ourselves here because we're we're talking about concepts right now about what we want in parks and the the details and those sorts of things will come out at a future date and I think uh city manager mentioned that it'll be next year probably when that will be taken up. So, um you know there's been no decision made by anybody yet as to what's going to be in there. We've talked about based on input we've received so far. So, uh, we'll be taking those things into consideration. >> Do you want to comment on that, please? >> Thank you, Chair Schultz, members of the commission, and um, members of the audience, just to kind of describe what our process is. So, um, if if Chair Schultz, if you're okay with me just taking a little bit a little bit of a deeper dive into just general process. >> Um, thank you. So, >> the commission before you, the committee before you is appointed, they're a citizen advisory board that is appointed by the council to kind of do the heavy lifting as it relates to our park system. So, parks and trails, um, they are the research arm and they make recommendations to the council. So they're a recommending board and the council then lies that they have the final authority in terms of which projects move forward, what amenities are ultimately included in those projects and then they assign budget and timeline to those things. And so um generally speaking what we try to do is have planning conversations uh a minimum of one year in advance of any project going forward. So that gives us time to do um some engagement with community members really um opportunities for the the committee to have um as deep a dive conversations as they need to um based on the complexity and the scope of the project. And um based on those recommendations then to make sure that um as we go into that or in our budget planning that we can include planning [crying] um conversations around budget uh so we can actually build uh what the vision is. And so um our budget year starts in January, it goes through December. So we're on calendar year and our planning process starts in [crying] May. So we generally would like to have an idea about a year in advance. So we know um that come May we're really starting to look at how this is going to fit into the budget and what we're actually going to build. And then from there the council will have conversations around what that what that project will entail and assign timelines to that. So um do you think that accurate do you all believe that that accurately reflects that I leave out any details? >> That's good. >> Thank you chair. >> Thank you. >> Any comments? >> Okay. Hold on a second. If you how many want to make a comment so you can run just one two if you want to make a comment please come to the podium state your name and address and uh we're going to limit this to a maximum of three minutes each and what this is is not a conversation we're selecting getting input from the community so this isn't meant to be a discussion but we'll consider your concerns or suggestions when we deliberate later. So, thanks for being here this evening. >> Yeah. Um I think my the biggest concern is >> your name, please. >> Oh, my name is Sam Blank. I'm at 100031 Coral Way, Victoria, Minnesota. >> Thanks. >> Um my concern that I would have is just the soccer field and just increasing the traffic to an area that's already uh the traffic's being increased with the surrounding developments. the fact that there's a new development that's going to have the same entry as the Huntersboro community and the Marshall community with all of those little kids that are in that neighborhood. Like I would just hope something in that park would go in that would be like meeting those needs as well as the surrounding needs uh for the city of Victoria. Um like when you look at the surrounding parks, yes, there are a lot of parks, but this is a great opportunity to put a real staple on the community and add a playground that could be a highlight of the community. I get that soccer fields bring into the into the area. Um, and I just worry about yes, there's revenue, but are we really meeting the needs of the citizens of Victoria by putting in a soccer field when there are alternative places that there could be a soccer field? So, um, that that's my proclamation and that's where I'm coming here tonight is just advocating for the citizens of Victoria, but then specifically living in Hburg myself. So, thank you. Yeah. >> Thank you. Anybody else? on page zero and this is Grace and we're at 5378 and I wrote an email also concerned about the traffic for future park user right here. >> Um but I think along with the traffic concerns and the the functionality there um also just we live in Minnesota there's seven months of winter so just considering the yearround use of the park and what the kids can do and get out there and really play. It's kind of just like the staple of this state to be outside. And so I think when you're slating what's in the park, just thinking about summer and winter and what kids can be doing. So we want them outside. We want them off the screens. >> Thank you. Anybody else wish to comment from the audience? Okay. Seeing none, any committee members have anything that they've heard or want to comment? >> [snorts] >> Yeah, I mean I think some of the concerns that have been voiced here and that I've heard, so I live in the Hunterbrook neighborhood. Um, and I I think the the biggest concern is just one that the traffic and the parking situation specifically with where the parking lot in the Hunters Park is currently positioned. So whether the streets are accessible to hold uh cars is is separate and aside from kind of the traffic flow. I mean the you can only turn left out of that neighborhood at at one area that entrance there. I know there was at least one email if not two that was sent into the city that reflected this. But a concern I have it's already difficult to to turn left there um in the mornings and in the evenings and with consistent flow of traffic there with where that parking lot is positioned I think is is could be problematic for traffic flow. Um, and so I think that was a a a big concern. And another item was just the kind of doubling down on the destination aspect of the park with a soccer field and a splash pad in one area with the consistent flow. And then also to the splash pad point of it being a summertime activity that gets the Memorial Day to Labor Day treatment and use and not having kind of a multi-purpose function such as another court um or open space that could function multiple use, [clears throat] you know, throughout all seasons were some of the bigger highlights that I heard um from like a congestion standpoint, from a use standpoint and just making sure right like I, you know, as we all know, right, we're we're passionate about parks. That's why we're on the committee. And I know, you know, appreciate everyone being here tonight and expressing your concerns and sentiments because that's why we're here, right? To advocate for the community and do what we want. And I know the city of Victoria has created their park system and has parks that are smaller in different locations. And so, um, they need to fit, you know, it's kind of a your neighborhood park, but it's a community park. And so I think we just need to be conscious of, you know, kind of the ingress egress of neighbors into the park with that flow of traffic and what that looks like with, you know, a kid riding their bike down the street to drive into the park or walk across the street to the park looks a little bit different when there's a, you know, three soccer games on Saturday or practice in in the evenings. And I think it's just something to consider with how it's currently configured from a a crosswalk perspective, right? It's just some of these considerations where you maybe think twice of having your child good on the street. And I think those were some of the concerns that, you know, my neighbors have expressed to me and, you know, admittedly some of the things that I think about just just living there. Um, so I I just think some, you know, I I understand we want uh unique um park aspects. I just my I think the concern is just the the dual destination aspect um of that park and and what that could mean from a traffic flow perspective. Okay. I thanks. Uh I think what we'll do we'll if somebody has a comment that isn't uh that's different than for we'll have plenty of time to talk about this in our agenda item. Um I didn't make that clear. Thanks. But if you have other items that uh aren't on the agenda that people brought up uh you know other than the current topic, well we can talk about that in our main business. So >> yeah, I've got one a little bit related. So I know we've had the big roundabout project down on Victoria Drive. They were working on an extending the sidewalk and all of it got done but one little stretch that would connect it pretty much to downtown. Just wanted to see if there was anything from the city on if if that's a planned project to finish in the spring. >> Do you know Jenna or >> can you help us describe uh committee members which specific area we're talking about? I'm assuming we're talking 82nd Street County Road. >> It would be the Pioneer Trail and then Victoria Drive, the new roundabout there >> by Hunters Brook. >> Yeah, right by Hun. When you leave Hunterbrook and you're approaching Pioneer, there's a trail that stops and then [laughter] >> go ahead. >> Thank you, Chair Schultz. Great question. Um committee um there so this project this trail extension had complications throughout the entire project and one of them being where the utilities so we have um city infrastructure uh water and um sewer going underneath there. Um and so when they were doing the trail they ran into some complications and had to do some relocations with that. Um, and so that has delayed uh the work. So the plan was to get it done. I haven't actually spoken with our city engineer or gotten an update um in a few weeks on that. I think the plan was for that to be done by the end of the year, but I know that winter is fast approaching. I'm not sure. Sounds like that perhaps that hasn't happened yet. So the plan is for that to uh make that connection from where the new roundabout is all the way to the entrance of Hunters Brook. Okay. >> So, I hope that answers the question and it was supposed to be done this year, but Okay. Yeah, that helps. >> If it doesn't, it will um it will be in the spring if that's not the case, but I'll talk with our city engineer and um provide an update to Jenna so she can share with the commi committee at the next meeting. >> Cool. Yeah, I think that would that way we don't add to the trail gaps. That that's a big one to keep closed. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anybody else? >> Oh, I just wanted to say that I've been kind of visiting some more parks in the past few months and really appreciate the new signage. I think it looks great, all the new signage that was put up. >> Okay, anybody else? Thanks. Uh, Jenna, do you have an update? >> Yes. So, we do have some upcoming events that will be happening. Um, so we have um this Saturday at from 10:00 a.m. to noon at the PRC, we have a Blades of Giving event. So, it's a Thanksgiving themed um skating event. So, um I hope you guys can come on out and join. Um we also um just want to remind you guys that um with the Thanksgiving holiday, the VRC will be closed on Thanksgiving Day um in observance of Thanksgiving. Um and then another big event um citywide that's coming up is Light Up Victoria. This will occur downtown on December 4th and it'll be an evening of lights, community events, music, um lots of things to enjoy. So, hope you guys can make that. >> Thanks, Jenna. Uh next on the agenda is our main topic for this evening under old business. It's the review of survey results and public input for future park developments. And uh Alyssa Nelson's going to be providing some uh updates on that. Elissa. >> Thank you, chair, committee members. It's so good to be back. It's nice to see all of the familiar faces and some of the new faces that are on the committee. Um, so this item, as we've kind of already touched on, is going to be very familiar to all of you because we talked about this last month. Um, where the committee really delved into the survey results and spent some time looking at that and then developed a recommendation and a vision for both the Huntersburg Park as well as the Marsh Hollow Park. Um there was considerations and again I know we've talked a little bit about this but for the record and for transparency and there's conversations about per um potentially playgrounds um soccer fields athletic fields as well as other types of large and small amenities. Um, since then, council and city staff have received several forms of feedback from residents within that neighborhood or both those neighborhoods. And council has then asked to bring this item back before you all to take another glance um at the amenities proposed at both of those parks um based on again the surveys that we've had, the public engagement that was all done this summer um as well as the the resident feedback that has come before us in the last couple of weeks. Um, but before we jump in, just for the audience and then those watching at home, um, we did want to provide a quick overview of these parks just for transparency's sake. Uh, for the one of the parks, Hunterbrook, that's going to be on the and I see if I can move my mouse over there. Um, on the right side of the screen, the north right side of the screen, that's Hunterbrook Park. It's about 5 and a half acres of developable parkland. Um, it does have a subbed parking lot entrance. There's no parking lot there yet. Um but right across from Rolling Hills Parkway um in this area there is an open space for a potential parking lot. Um and then it has been graded for an athletic field meaning that this park is almost split into two right where about my mouse is where you have an upper part of the park with higher elevation and then it slopes down into this lower part um which the developer did grade for athletic fields. However, more or less it just means that there's a vacant empty flat space and that could be used for anything. Um, the second one is down on the lower end of the screen is Marsh Hollow Park. This is about five acres. Um, however, there is um almost a acre and a half uh on this highlighted blue section uh that is protected natural forest area. So, there's about three and a half acres of developable parkland in this space. Um the other thing to note is we also have significant sloping. Um the southern part of the park is higher elevation really close to the neighbors um and those residents and then has a significant hill which drops down um closer to creek side lane the road. Um so there's a smaller section here. So when you think about you know that open field for athletic field this might not necessarily fit in this park space as it would for Huntersburg Park just because of the sloping um in this area. The other piece that we wanted to note is that these parks are relatively close to each other. Um I don't think you talked significantly about that in your last conversation about not necessarily duplicating amenities. Um because there is a point4 mile walk between the two. Um and then the other piece that we wanted to highlight that maybe wasn't mentioned or discussed as much is that there are two clubouses in this development or in these two developments. Um, for the Huntersburg Park, there's the the Northern Clubhouse, which is almost right across the street from the park, which includes um meeting and party rooms, a gym, uh, a pool, and a patio, an outdoor patio space. And then Marsh Hollow's Clubhouse is right next to the park entrance. Um, and that also includes a patio, a pool, um, meeting and party room, gym, and then also includes an on-site dog park. Thanks for that additional info. >> So, as we noted, we did receive a s a number of emails, 28 emails to be exact from the neighborhood residents uh from Huntersburg and Marsh Hollow. Uh and they had additional feedback. We summarized their concerns. However, we did include all the emails in uh the packet for you all to read and uh review. But the in summary, the concerns and considerations from the residents included um concerns over destination type amenities. Um specifically that was called out was the splash pad and the large soccer field. Um and the reasons for that were increase of traffic. Um creating additional parking challenges for the neighborhood. Um and then concerns with the select amenities disrupting the neighborhood feel, making the the park seem more destination community park focus rather than neighborhood park focused. Now to delve into before we really get into discussion what a neighborhood park is. Um this has been a conversation that council has had over various years and one of the the definitions that they've talked about in in 2023 when they did their park workshop um was really focused on you know what is the functionality of a neighborhood park specifically those three to five acre parks um that we have in our community. Um, so what they've talked about is they're generally smaller in size, intended for convenient access to nearby neighborhoods. We're really looking at, you know, trail and sidewalk uh connectivity, so people can bike there or walk there. Um, however, we do often have, and I'll have examples of small parking lots in these spaces, recognizing that not everyone um can walk a a smaller distance or even a significant distance to a park. Or you have things like park shelters where you have guests or other people utilizing a park shelter or baseball field, soccer fields where you might have um driving traffic. Um, [snorts] skipped ahead. The functionality for these is it supports you know spontaneous interactions those non-event uh recreational uh amenities. Uh we also see a lot of night toight gatherings in these park areas. So when we say um non-organized recreation events sometimes those recreational events happen that are more neighborhood focused and community focused and then really enhancing neighborhood identity in a sense of space. Now, this all being said, this definition does not indicate that the park is only meant for the neighborhood that it surrounds. Um, this is not considered a private park. It is considered a public park. And we, um, on the city staff side, we actively encourage all residents to explore our park system through either our playground passports or um, night to unite events or really trying to get people to different parks like pop-up parks like you engaged in this summer. Um, as part of the work plan also, council has asked this committee to make our parks more unique. Uh, we don't necessarily want cookie cutter parks and each neighborhood park to look identical to the next. So, how can we um make our parks a little bit more unique from the next? Um, so that is something to consider as this conversation continues as well. Now, some examples of current neighborhood parks for you. Uh, Lakeside Estates, that's about uh 5 and a half acres. So really similar to the Huntersbrook style. Um it also has significant sloping similar to what we would see at Hunterbrook. And this park includes trails, sidewalk or trails, playgrounds, uh a covered shelter, uh basketball court. It's a full court. We see both full courts and half courts depending on each park. Um open green space, uh undeveloped field. So we do have a more or less a baseball field that is undeveloped um in that park. And then it does have a parking lot which includes 12 spaces. 13 if you want to include the handicap accessible space. Rap city. Uh Raps City is three and a half acres, so slightly smaller. However, it does have significant number of amenities. It is one of our larger neighborhood parks. Um playgrounds, basketball court, uh open green space, ball field, a gaga ball pit, parking lot, and then this one does have a covered shelter with indoor concessions and restrooms. It is unique because it is connected to our water booster station. Um so hence the reason that it does have that extra uh shelter space with the the full restrooms and the full concessions um because it does have that connectivity to water already brought to it. Maline Creek Park 4 acres trail playground covered shelter very similar to the last few open space and basketball court. Uh this one does not have a parking lot. However, uh one of the concerns that we hear from this park or from neighborhoods, uh the neighbors in this park is it doesn't necessarily have that smaller parking lot amenity to it. And then Lake Bridge Park, again, 5 and a half acres, very similar to the two parks that we're looking at, trails, playground, covered shelter, ball fields, soccer fields. This one does have a soccer field, uh basketball court, open green space, and a parking lot. And you can notice that we do have additional parking lot spaces, 24 spaces with the additional handicap accessible space. Um, primarily because this park uh is significantly rented out for its soccer and uh ball field uses. Any questions from the committee on neighborhood parks in general? Thank you for addressing parking though because I did visit these um parks since the last meeting. Um because it sounds like, and you can correct me, that there will be city input on the size of parking lot based on park amenities, but that it might have some sort of parking no matter what. So, so that residents aren't surprised if there is still a parking lot, even if that's not something that is desirable. >> Um, chair, committee members, uh, one of the things that I will note is a lot of our neighborhood parks do end up having parking lots and it's not necessarily for, if you think about all outsour outside traffic. It is for, you know, residents that don't necessarily live in that small radius. um if there's poor weather, people sometimes do just want to drive uh to their neighborhood park. And if you have a small park shelter, those will still be rented. We do rent all of our neighborhood park shelters. So if someone wants to have a birthday party um in their neighborhood park and you know their grandparents are coming or their aunts are coming, um there is some sort of parking on site so those people can utilize that without having to utilize street parking or parking on the neighborhood streets. So, it is a smaller parking lot uh designed for those smaller type events or amenities. >> I received quite a bit of feedback on like the design fitting in the neighborhood feel. A lot have said they moved there for this like specific style of the neighborhood. How do you usually when you design the park? Do you have like a city brand that you try to put on the park or do you try to fit it into the neighborhood? Kind of can you walk through how this has happened in the past? >> It's a great question, committee member. Um so chair, committee members, uh four related to the the branding and the elements. Um that is something that this is will be new for the uh city. We just installed the new park signage before we had variety of park signage throughout our community. Um and you may notice if you venture out to a lot of our parks, a lot of our amenities don't necessarily match when it comes to the type of trash cans we have and the type of benches and picnic tables. That's something over the last couple of years we've been really cognizant about is really identifying, you know, what is a Victorian park supposed to look like. And that doesn't necessarily mean that we all have to have the same type of playgrounds and all the playgrounds have to have the same type of color. It's just making sure that those smaller amenities within there look like they're in Victoria. So no matter if you're at Lake Bridge Park or the new Huntersburg Park or the new Marsh Hollow Park, you'll know you're experiencing um a Victoria park. So, when we talk about if if the committee recommends doing a playground, um I think the next step is for us to determine what type of playground could it be. Um what type of look could it be? There's I know the committee talked about a nature themed playgrounds that might be that unique feature that the committee might want to consider as part of this. It's not necessarily those large destination. Um but it might meet the character of the neighborhood. Um that's something that we as a committee and as staff will explore together. That help answer your question? >> Yeah, I know there's like if [clears throat] there was fences for example, that was another thing that um some community members have brought to me too. So um probably more to come there, but that's helpful. >> And I will say when it comes to fences, um one of the things that we do try and look at for these spaces there, we don't if you look at other parks, um we don't necessarily install type of fencing. We look at natural buffer ways, um, trees, grasses, plantings, um, even hill buffers, um, which you could see in Hunterbrook, they did, um, burming in the park to to help kind of create that natural buffer way so it's not so institutionalized, um, type of fencing in the parks. Before I move on, the one piece I do want to note is staff did pull together uh the type of usage for these parks and the numbers we've seen over the last few years. Um so for Lakeridge um this specific park, we do see an increase of rentals that have happened in our soccer field and our ball fields. Um just for example in 2024 we had 113 rentals um during the months of April to October uh that were for the the soccer fields specifically and then in 2025 we had 180 rentals for the soccer fields from April to October. So that number is increasing. Um the shelter rentals for all of the parks that were considered or talked about um were definitely not significant. um one or two. The one that does have more traffic is Rap City just because of the additional amenity um having public bathrooms and concessions in that space. So, the survey, I know you've delved into that uh significantly, so we're not going to spend so much time reviewing the survey for both Hunters Brook and Marsh Hollow. However, um we did want to pull together the data of the survey just specifically to uh residents that live a half a mile from both of those parks. So, that is what's being displayed on the screen. I believe at the last meeting uh the committee you looked at all the survey results entirely. I think there was close to 600. Um which is good. I think that's good for us to keep in mind. Um, however, we did just want to break it down a little bit further to focus on the folks that um are in the neighborhood based on the resident feedback that we received. Uh, so for Hunterbrook, you can see the top 10 actually top 11 amenities, dog park and tennis court tied there. Um, so top 11 amenities, but the highest one was related to the playground um, ages 5 to 12. Um, but then you can also see playground 0 to four um, slightly lower since these are larger park neighborhood parks. And what we typically see for larger neighborhood parks is that you find both playground sets are within those. If you're in those smaller tot parks, you might choose one or the other. Um, but typically we try and have both playgrounds relatively near each other. So then if you have a child that happens to be five or older and a child that's closer to that three range, you can have both children simultaneously using the park safely um, and you're able to keep a watchful eye on them. uh sports fields was a higher ranked oper option for that space as well as water feature. Any questions on the survey feedback here? Just one in reviewing the data >> um on the playground see that one of the top items that we have is obstacle uh course and did you include that in the conversation with the playground because that's how we considered that is that playground could have obstacle uh ninja type or whatever they were called uh components. >> Yeah. Chair, committee members. So there was a separate survey question um that was related to if you had to have a playground which is your top playground of choice and that is where the the ninja obstacle course I think the nature playground also rose to the attention there as well. Okay. >> Um so I think that is still part of the conversation here today. If playground is still the top amenity of uh the committee um what type of playground could it be? I think ninja obstacle course themed nature themed playground are are definitely things that are on the table. >> Okay. I just wanted to make sure that we didn't lose that in here because I thought I saw that in the view. >> Thanks for clarifying. >> Of course. Um and then just to to note on both this slide and my next slide um the numbers next to it are the number of respondents. We didn't do percentages because we just wanted to showcase actually how many people um did respond to the survey and did indicate those. And we did have 188 um respondents that fit within this criteria of living within a half a mile of Hunters Brook. And they also had to be Victoria residents. We did out because we do know Chaza is right next door and we did receive some Chaza residents that also live within that half a mile uh radius spot. So, Marsh Hollow, very similar, 158 respondents. Um, top amenities again were playground, sports field, water feature. Um, and then again the the smaller playground. So, very similar. Um, the the few things that were different um is that the covered shelter, open green space, pickleball courts, and and outdoor ice rink were all tied. Um, so we definitely didn't have a stretch as we did in the last one over which amenities were were higher priority for this group. So with that committee, um obviously staff is here to help answer any further questions. Um but we are uh looking for your feedback based on the additional information that has been brought forward to you about what amenities would be the best fit for the following two parks. [clears throat] Hunters Brook Park and the Marsh Hollow Park. And I will obviously split through the slides as directed, but I'm just going to leave this one up um so you can see where the parks are just for the discussion. >> Maybe thanks Alyssa. Maybe uh to start just for a starting point um we spent considerable amount of time at our last meeting and came up with a list of things. So, uh, while we're going to reconsider based on additional input that we have, it might be helpful to start with what we had to work from there instead of rehash the whole thing again. So, do you Jenna or Alyssa, do you have items that we had come up as a recommendation last meeting? >> Yes. So, for the Hunters location, you had indicated um a playground. Um, this one you had specified some sort of obstacle course, but you'd indicated a playground, um, um, a sports field, so a soccer field, um, splash pad, a covered shelter with restrooms, uh, and parking lot. >> Okay. >> And then for Marsh Hollow, it was a, um, another playground. This one nature themed um with a dog run um a hammock village um >> and potentially one more thing and I'll look it up to make sure >> we said basketball >> basketball at one of the parks I think >> yeah and basketball court was indicated at at least one of the locations if not both >> and there was discussion about half court or full court depending upon what fit in the Okay. And and the committee was asked to consider uh that information. Uh we've been asked before to consider unique things for our parks that aren't available necessarily in other places. So that was part of our input last time. So, you know, I think I think there's been some really good points made. Uh we've got input from uh people that took the survey. uh we've got input from people who have expressed concerns uh this evening. We also have to keep in mind that uh you know while it's a neighborhood park, it is a community park as Alyssa um said that uh parks are meant for not just a neighborhood but the community as a whole since all of us as taxpayers are paying for those amenities. So it's not a private park, it's a public park. So the question that I think we need to answer is what amenities do we want? But what amenities do we want that um cut a balance between what's uh what the community would like to see? U how do we uh figure that with the neighborhood? How do we reach something that is plausible for for everybody? You know, addressing concerns uh at the same time recognizing that uh we have 10,000 residents here as well. So, um we have that. So, I'll open it up for discussion as far as uh do we want to um change any of the amenities that we initially came up with? We want to change our recommendation in any way. um maybe start there. So, >> could I ask a quick question to kick it off before we start the discussion? And and Jenna and Alyssa, this is probably directed towards you. Um, but as far as the entrance to the Hunterbrook Park from what the cutin currently is for the parking lot, is there any flexibility on where that cut in could be as to whether that could be on like Victoria Drive or is that just all sub subject to something that the council would consider when the entire plan was put forth to them for vote? >> Right. So, this one I have talked to our um development team in regards to um why that particular location was set and some of that has to do with the county road and the the traffic on that one. And so there are um like parking and street regulations that prevent access from certain points. And so the location that is currently cut out for that parking was due to um mitigate any uh traffic as best as it could in that location. And so it's the safest entry point um for that. And the flow of that um was intentionally designed to uh mitigate disruption of traffic. In addition to that, the park location itself was um designed to be on the outskirts of that neighborhood to minimize traffic flow within the area. And so I do know that some of that um was coming from the idea of this will be a 5acre park and so there will be um traffic concerns. And so the street alongside of it was widened um to have parking on the park side of the street. And then the entrance point for that parking lot was um selected uh so that um it would have a quicker access in from the main street to minimize um traffic into the neighborhoods. So I assume then by picking the creek side lane entrance because Victoria Drive wasn't an option that the game farm road was also analyzed as part of that study to pick the creek side entrance. >> Yeah, that one was not an option due to the backup to the county road >> comments. >> I was going to share a little more feedback. I there's quite a bit probably not email but there's I'm in Huntersbrook too. So feedback in our Facebook group as well. I think we saw this in the data, but from a playground side, there's a group that wants and everyone said they want the park to grow with kind of the age of the kids, but an obstacle course might be something that doesn't serve a kid that's a lot younger. So, as we're looking at, we saw that people want climbing things, they want swings, they want some slides. Is there a way to make sure that obstacle course also includes traditional elements or there's a maybe heavier weight on tra traditional with some obstacle course pieces to make the park unique? I think that's something we should bring back to the conversation today. Um, light pollution was one. I'm not sure what our criteria. If we had a soccer field, would we put lights in? I think the community was going to bring that up here, too. But something to consider is that that does change the field of the neighborhood. Um, another one was some safety of like a splash pad. There's some reporting that some sicknesses can come out of under reportported issues from splash pads. So, how does the city monitor things like that if there's water usage and and kids getting sick from that? Um, we talked about the the parking lot. The last one was the bathrooms. A lot of the community did not think a more permanent structure was needed. So, I know we had talked a little bit around the budget use. Soccer fields are cheaper than and would let us to put some more effort into making the park nicer. Is there a way we don't do the bathrooms and put that that money into something that we could put into the park? So there was a lot of feedback that was something we haven't talked about that isn't the soccer field but I think it's worth bringing back today. >> Okay. We have any I think my understanding from the playground discussion last time that it wasn't uh geared towards certain age groups. Now obstacle courses for older kids but I don't think that pre are at least the way I interpreted it that we were preluding or not including smaller for smaller uh folks too. Is that am I on base or I missed something? >> Yeah. So with um playground design um there are a variety of elements that exist in the playground design world. So, in terms of obstacle course, there are some that are designed for older ages, but there's also some that are designed for younger ages. Um, but in addition to that, um, your question of can we blend traditional um, with the obstacle course, that's absolutely a possibility. Most of the playground companies that have these equipment for these obstacle courses, design the traditional playgrounds as well, so they have all that equipment. Um, there's a lot of facilities that have um, a combination of different designs. Um there was a city that I had previously worked for that they did blend um traditional and an obstacle course at the same location. And so it's completely possible. Um and you know given the feedback from the community that's something that if the community is uh wishing that's something that we can explore with the playground design um with the obstacle course that isn't a definition of what type of playground it is. It's what type of amenities are selected within it. And so an obstacle course playground is um the same as selecting I would like swings included in our playground. So, it's a feature to a playground, not the playground in it of itself. >> And I I think we definitely need to change our recommendation to say we're going to have a playground like that. That would make it very straightforward that we actually are going to have a playground and not Ninja Warrior 2.0 here in Hunter [laughter] >> playground with the store. >> Yeah. >> I think your other other uh comment or concern was about lights on soccer fields. I not I don't know for sure, but I don't think we had talked about that at all, but I'm not aware that there are any lights on any soccer fields in Victoria. And I I would be surprised if there was a plan to have lights if we so chose to have a soccer field there. But >> thank you, chair. Thank you, committee members. Uh you are correct, chair, that we do not we're very cognizant about where we put those larger athletic field lights. Um so in neighborhood parks we do have significant ball field or number of ball fields and athletic fields throughout the community. None of them have those lights. Um where we see the lights are are Lion's Park. Um what we do have are more traditional street lights to make sure that the park is safe. So we would suggest including those type of park amenities. Um if and that's just assuming that's you know this park is developed according to our traditional park standards. Um, the other piece I wanted to know in the conversation was related to the bathrooms. Uh, for neighborhood parks with covered shelters that aren't similar to Rap City, uh, we do not traditionally have regular bathrooms in our neighborhood parks minus Rap City. Um and then when it comes to like other types of restrooms and parks like a porta potty per se, we do not include portaotties as as our practice um at neighborhood parks that do not have like soccer fields or baseball fields that are programmed. So we provide those portaotties to like Lakebridge. It does not have a an actual permanent restroom, but it does have soccer games or baseball games. Um if that makes sense. And I think your third point was regarding um concerns about uh splash pads and potential um pathogens or whatever. Um my guess is that's a separate question. No matter where a water feature would be that that would be something that would have to be taken into consideration whether it's in one of these parks or some other place. Uh, so >> yeah, so with splash pads, there's um a certification and an annual inspection process. And so that's something that if we went in that route, that would be something that the city would be maintaining. >> Yeah. >> Well, there's um there's there's a process like it's it's not just they check it one time. It's an ongoing process to ensure um safety. >> Okay. Um did have a a follow-up question. some of the concerns about traffic mentioned that the Creek Side Lane is being used as the entrance for an additional the neighborhood that's just starting to be developed now. It's west of Marsh Hollow. Uh do we know yet if that's kind of the long-term entrance for that neighborhood or if the other side might be developed? >> Apparently, no. [laughter] It's not cut yet. >> Dana, do you know help us out, please? Thanks. Glad you're here. >> I'm glad I'm here, too. Um, thank you, Chair Schultz, members of the committee. Great, great question. Um, so Creekide Lane was actually designed as a collector road. So, it was designed with taking heavier traffic in mind to move people to and from multiple um destinations within the community as well as neighborhoods. And so um there there are plans for an additional neighborhood. So LAR is in right now going through their application process and um so there will be an additional neighborhood that will be um a using Creekide to access that neighborhood. Um and as we continue to develop west and south, there will be additional roads that will connect um kind of throughout where Quick Trip is going to be and into that South Growth area. So um initially Creekide will carry that traffic and was designed to do that. Those are things that our city engineering team is looking at very closely, but in the future and as more development um occurs in that south growth area. Additional roads uh will take uh will serve as a relief valve for some of that traffic depending on where they're going. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. Other comments? I mean, um I just wanted to discuss like some of the email um feedback that came from residents so that you know residents would know that we read um all of their comments and kind of I made [clears throat] my list uh as I read those to say what are the closest residents saying no to? What are the closest residents saying yes to? And then there's one amenity that like has both yeses and nos in all the residents that took time to send in those emails, express their desires, express their concerns. So, I don't know if everyone else wants to like talk um about like kind of what they saw in in that respect. Um but what I was hearing from residents were nos was uh to the soccer field um to the bathrooms to parking lot and then there was um some comments on permanent structures um as well. Um what I was hearing yeses to were playgrounds, green space, one that we didn't have on our original plan. So I do think it's of note to bring up is a ice rink. Um and same with sledding hill. Um also uh yeses to shaded space. Um toddler playground which we we've discussed playground can include all age ages and then also basketball court. Um the one feature or amenity that you know there was residents expressing support for and um concerns about that I found in all those emails was the splash pad. So that one is really um you know up in the air there. Um and especially having learned um that both of those communities pay for and have access to private pools um which was not a part of our discussion at the last meeting. Um as well as that one of those communities communities also has access to a private dog park. So, um I just want to discuss um with everyone to see what they also took out of all that resident feedback. >> Yeah, I I think I I saw similar things that you brought up. Uh I think we also need to keep in mind that we did ask people to do a survey. So, while it's important to listen to uh the concerns of people not only here this evening, but those that send emails, that's extremely important, but we can't forget about the what was it 188 people that took the time to fill out the survey, too. And also the greater community that has needs as well. uh with that I I would say that it seems like it'd be helpful to define what the problem is. So when we come up with a potential solution, we're actually solving the problem, not the symptom to the problem. And it seems that based on um info that you collected there, which I think we can all agree that that's what we read um and the other input that we received. I think the things that we came up with last time are definitely things that the community wants. Uh and also the the broader Hunter Hunter Hunterbrook community as well. Um, so perhaps the the problem statement would be how do we best address uh the concerns of all of our citizens including those that live in live in closest to the neighborhood and most effective to provide um park amenities, park and recreation amenities that would best meet the needs and our our mission to provide parks and recreation to to our community. And um it also seems like the the main concern is traffic and parking. If I read between the lines and I think we also can um take a look at perhaps uh based on new information we received about uh pool amenities, there might be other places that are better suited for some of those amenities. So that that would be one of the things we'd we'd have to ask. Now I think it's interesting that water amenity when we did the popup events in these same neighborhoods was one of the top items uh that came up. So we're getting conflicting information. We've got popup events saying that's what we want and now we're getting push back uh feedback I should say not push back push back to the plan but feedback good feedback as to concerns about that. So, um, >> seemed like the combination of the splash and the soccer fields may have been, you know, still communityating. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think some of the the dual or trio of destination items in a park, right? If you think of the obstacle item is unique to the community, the soccer field is not unique but in in heavy need, right? The survey results showed the demand need, right? And then the um splashpad again being a unique feature. I mean I think right you're bringing up the right questions chair to say kind of what's what's the problem and looking at the concerns to address the problem and then kind of getting back to like what's the right solution for this location right like as in thinking about uniqueness in a varieties of ways it seems like you know just just through this initial discussion we've come to some clarity by providing a little bit more detail around like obstacle course or park that it's excuse me playground that it's a inclusive right there's a 0 to4 four component a 5 to12 component right so I think maybe while while we don't have ultimate control over what it will ultimately include or look like right I think start putting some parameters or or definition around what we think you know what the idea would be for that actual function I think would provide help right I mean I think when you're trying to reconcile some of the data too you look at water feature as a top item right well we went you know into splash pad right and I understand in the the hunters brook and Marsh Hollow splash pad was a top item. But right, it's like just thinking about that differently. A water feature could be like downtown Weisetta having a couple, you know, things that pop up with water that are in a location near a park to have a water feature as opposed to a destination splash pad that's, you know, the size of this room or larger, right? So, I think I don't I think it would be helpful for me as a resident, helpful for some of the concerns that I heard in the neighborhood to kind of flush some of that out because I think some of this is just like confusion unra, you know, understanding information, right? I think, you know, sometimes folks not knowing a parking lot was initially intended for it, right? I mean, I think we've been all fortunate to to to know that going into this and trying to spread the word at those community events where we had the engagement events to say like, you know, this is set up for that. But I think kind of engaging in some more uh detailed dialogue around some of these items I think will go a long way in trying to find the right solution for the problem. >> Yeah, just e echoing what the other members have said. I mean my read is that kind of the top three across both people close to the parks and Victoria residents are playground, soccer field and water feature. Um, and you know, versus the feedback we received, kind of the concern that I identified there seems to be that this will be like a destination park that attracts people from outside of the community uh, in large numbers and causes traffic problems. And so I think we want to balance that and make sure that any recommendations we make kind of are [snorts] meeting the needs of the community without maybe becoming, you know, a water park for people to visit. [laughter] I think when we had a discussion about the uh splash pad, I think we weren't envisioning a, you know, this was going to take up half the park and was going to be something that people travel 30 miles to to use. I think it was going to be I I thought anyway it was going to be scaled towards the community that I mean that area. But on that said, I think we also had some discussion about there could be other potential locations for that that might be more central in our community that could be larger, but a larger uh function would be there. I think we were trying to address the input that we had received from the popup events and the survey itself for the parks. That's why the splash pad had come up at our last meeting. Yeah, if it hadn't been for that uh feedback that we received on the popup and in the survey, I don't think we would have even discussed it last. >> Yeah, I agree. I mean, that was the number one thing I heard at the pop-up events was like, could there be a splash pad? [laughter] I >> I think we were trying to figure out how do we make that playground like unique and adding a small water aspect to it would make it a differentiator for a new type park that this community could have. So I think maybe Jenna if you have guidance on like what what could water feature mean? I think I have a feeling some people thought it was like big butterflies shooting water out which goes into the feel of the neighborhood. I don't think the neighborhood wants that. So kind of how do we blend that aspect in I think is important. >> Yeah. Again much like the comment that I had had about um playground design splash pads are much like playgrounds where you can completely customize them. So they can be as small and as large as you want them to be. Um, I would agree with um, Cher Schultz's comment about um, scaling it to the neighborhood. So, if there were to be um, a splash pad located in this area, it would have to be scaled to the neighborhood. And there are amenities um, in splash pads that work for a variety of ages. And so, again, like playgrounds, you can have, you know, more traditional, you could have bigger, you could have large playgrounds, small tots. Um, splash pads are much the same to where you can customize it to make it um, suit your needs. >> Okay. I did receive some feedback to uh, to go with, well, why do they want the splash pad? Some residents reached out and said, well, our pool is already crowded with a bunch of toddlers. How do we divert some of the traffic to have some of the water go over there? So, it was a way to balance with some of the feedback that I received and could be some of the survey results we saw. other thoughts, comments? >> I mean, I just I pulled out a resident quote too from the email that I thought was uh, you know, really um well written is to balance and enhance the community without burdening the local residents there. So, I think that's like that's what I'm going to be continuing to think about in this discussion is, you know, enhancing the community with like what we said, we we made these decisions trying to find unique amenities, not repeating neighborhood parks that we already have. However, um a new focus would be without burdening the local residents. So, um and we've talked about it too is like the no the no is to a re regional destination park and the the yes is to our a unique neighborhood park. Um so I think we have to balance find a way to balance that. It >> it seems to me that I don't think we ever intended this to be a destination park. Um some of the amenities may attract people from outside that immediate neighborhood, but I don't think this was meant to be like a central focus, you know, like a big water park or a or big splash pad. It would be geared towards that neighborhood. Um, and we also have to keep in mind that it is a community park. Uh, and you know, a neighborhood park and the city council has told us that this isn't just for the neighborhood, it's for others to use as well. We don't it's not a private area. So, I think there's a way to balance all of this. Um, and so out of the things that we recommended last time, um, I think we've probably maybe addressed some of them. One was concern about playground that, you know, the the neighbors wanted to make sure that there were amenities that would fit different age groups. And I think uh Jenna has addressed that that and same with the obstacle course or ninja course or whatever we're calling it that that's can be a feature of a playground that's it's not a separate thing. Um the second one was uh not wanting a structure with bathrooms or whatever. I think initially we didn't have that in there. We had that in there because if we were going to have something that was a soccer field or something, we thought we needed to have uh if people were going to use that than they needed to have uh it's probably better to have that than somebody's bushes to use for their restroom. But um and if I could just interject there, I I live in Rap City, which has bathrooms and I and parking and it doesn't I wouldn't say that it's a significant concern for our neighborhood. >> Okay. All right, that's good to know. Uh, and I think the parking piece, uh, whether we have soccer field, splash pads, or whatever amenities that end up in this park, uh, I think the concern I saw in the that there's a danger of potential danger of people parking in the street and uh, children crossing uh, to the park, you know, fear of, you know, accidents or whatever. So to me, a parking lot makes sense because if you don't have that, then people are going to come and they're going to park in the street. And I think that some of the concern and I think Alyssa stated earlier in some of our other parks, that's one of the things that we that the city has gotten feedback on that that don't have parking off the road. That that's a concern. So, I think the extent we can get have some parking spots in the actual park would uh hopefully prevent people from filling up the street. So, the the only the only other thing so the water feature uh it sounds like the big concern that neighbors uh have now would be if it's a destination, people are flocking in from all over. But if it's uh if it's uh built if we decide to do that and if it's built uh to scale for the neighborhood, uh probably it's not going to attract necessarily a whole bunch of people from outside if there's a couple of things that are spraying water on people there. Um but there's there may be some people that come. I mean that's that's kind of what we want is a community two people to use our parks but I don't know to be a huge amount. Other question there is there a better spot that instead of having just a small water feature we could have a big water feature in a central location and just do it once. So that might be a question we want to discuss here. The the other concern is um a ball field uh soccer field type thing that would uh have people come from you know soccer games or whatever multiple nights a week or whatever. And the question I would have is uh is there a way to I mean if we did choose to have a it's gonna there's going to be a field there whether there's soccer or whatever. I think the community wanted green space to have be able to throw, you know, play catch with their kid or kick a soccer ball or whatever. Is there a way to um either It seems we can say no so no organized soccer or can we limit it to, you know, one day a week, one game a week to keep the traffic down? Is there a compromise here? uh or are there other places in the community either now or in the future where we could have uh soccer fields? >> I guess my counter suggestion broadly here would be that I think the concern is largely about scaling these amenities to the community and making sure they don't become a destination park. And I think doing things like leaving out lights on the soccer field, um maybe not having bathrooms or, you know, only having portaotties, um having a small splash pad that is scaling to the community. I don't I feel like limiting like here's here's a park, but you can only use it one day a week is kind of not the goal of a community park. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think to Jacob's point, right, I think it's it's it's scaling and use, right? if it's if it's open space or a multi-use field as opposed to a mark soccer field that's used for recreation and can be rented. It's it's a totally different story for like a use and enjoyment versus destination aspect. And then I I guess an interesting thing I I'm not an advocate necessarily for a restroom structure, but I I don't necessarily know how portable restrooms would go over as far as aesthetic within the neighborhood too. I the one I was going to propose and it was definitely feedback. We didn't necessarily see it in the survey, but was in the emails, was in some surveys, was is there a way we could take that soccer field, keep the green space for maybe half of it, put a full basketball court there? And I know we've talked about making this a full year park. Could we ice over the basketball court in the winter? I know it's probably a city planning nightmare, but I think that would set apart the park in a way that would scale to the neighborhood. You might get some traffic for the ice rink because we don't have a nice one that's fully built out for Victoria, but I do think it would offer kind of what the community is asking for and serve the something for the winter, too. So, that would be the one I would put forward to change >> or soccer. Uh yes, >> chair, committee members, I I do want to just touch on the outdoor ice rink amenity. Um, so at the last city council workshop related to the CIP, council did put $175,000 allocated to research for a potential location for an outdoor ice rink, which will eventually get into your hands of trying to identify where could that outdoor ice rink be, whether it's a permanent structure, um, similar to what we have at Lions, um, or is it more temporary, could it be seasonal, what could that look like? So, that is something that council is going to ask of you. um in the next year of what could we potentially do? How do we get an outdoor ice rink knowing that Lions isn't necessarily living up to to par um today? So, something to think about um knowing that, you know, there is opportunity and there is funding available for outdoor ice in the next. >> Okay. Is there um here's a here's another question. Um, would we anticipate that there would be I I guess one of the one of the concerns I see seen the community survey, seeing it broken down by the community or by the neighborhood um and by the popup events, so soccer fields were a big deal. And um we talked last time about um you know that maybe there was uh well we know there was a a push uh by some association to have people uh report that but a number of Victoria residents also did. So the question is, do we anticipate any space available in the future um within our community that um could be used that would be more appropriate used for uh organized soccer? And in the meantime, could we use this space uh for that until that becomes available? And and that back to my original question, I didn't mean that you can't use the soccer fields. I'm just saying if you rent I think we rent those out now to do we rent that out soccer fields out to the association. what I was saying, can we limit >> rental so to provide additional spa? I'm looking for a compromise here, you know, and I I I understand the community don't want, you know, soccer from 8 in the morning to 9 at night, 5 days, six days a week. But is there a way to say if they need another soccer field for their thing, can we provide one soccer field, they can have, you know, two hours, you know, one game field for a game. I don't know. I'm just trying to throw out some thoughts or ideas discussion. I don't know if it's practical or not. >> Yes. Alissa, >> chair, committee members. Um, you had two points that I want to make. The first, I I'll touch on the soccer field um rental piece to it. uh that would be a policy consideration that we'd want to have a further discussion on with the committee. Obviously, we wouldn't want to limit that just to one neighborhood. That would be an equity conversation that would eventually have to get to council. There's a field use policy that we have. Um that does not address limiting our well limits based on our ordinance. Um but it doesn't address limiting usage. That would be a further conversation that we would like to have um directed by council at that point. And then um trying to think of what the other point was. I got so distracted on >> other spaces. >> Thank you, Amanda. I appreciate that. >> Yes. >> Places. >> Um so, yes, the other uh potential growth and opportunities to add additional soccer fields or athletic fields um throughout the community. So, we're just getting started on the 2050 comprehensive plan. Uh currently, we're functioning on the 2040 comprehensive plan. And just to to take a step back further, um since we are in within the MET council uh sewer district, the MET council requires us every 10 years uh to create this comprehensive planning document um that helps with growth and it makes us look 10 years, 50 years out in the future of where Victoria is going to be um to help plan for you know sewer capacity, water capacity. It helps us when we have conversations with developers. Um and one of the pieces and aspects of that is parks. Um this year and next year as we look for the 2050, we're going to spend a significant amount of time on the park section for we in the 2040 comprehensive plan when we did this you know 5 10 years ago. We spent a lot of time on the development and planning um not so much attention towards the park planning. Um, so when we're thinking about our south and west growth areas, um, this is on your work plan too, is really focusing on those areas so we can identify, you know, where should our parks be in V when Victoria grows in those areas. So when it comes to the future space of soccer fields, baseball fields, splash pad, water feature, whatever that happens to be, um, we're we're really starting to look at developing that as part of the 2050 comprehensive plan. Um, and that is something that all of you all will be heavily engaged in because we'll want your feedback as part of what eventually could Victoria look like when it comes to our open spaces, trails, and parks. Apologies there. >> Other comments, questions, proposals? >> I have a question on the difference between what we would consider a multi-use sports field versus a soccer field. What would that look like? Yeah, and I'm sure Jenna probably has a more def defined answer as part of her parks and wreck background. Um, so I'm going to pass it over to her to see if she has something for you. >> Yes. So, essentially a multi- um sport field is one that is designed. It has the dimensions that are capable of a variety of different fields. The major difference is um how it's striped and what nets are put up and things like that. And so, um, some of those fields that, um, exist already in our, um, park system, like if you look to, um, I always get them confused. >> Lake Town. >> Lake Town. >> Thank you. Uh, Lake Town, that one has multi-sport fields on it. Um, and so we have soccer that's programmed out there. We have lacrosse that's programmed out there. Football that's programmed out there. So, these are fields that are intentionally designed, um, to be able to utilize um, you know, or host different sports. Um, and so a multiports field is something that could be used for soccer, but it could also be used for a variety of other um, athletic adventures. >> So, is it if a field is striped, it's open for programming? >> Does that generally get more usage than a soccer field? >> No, it just depends on what um, type of users there are. So, um, the Lake Town is uh, pretty well programmed. there's a lot of things that go on over there. Um but it's about the same as um some of our other locations. So it just depends on the demand of uh the types of things. So if we have a huge demand of a lacrosse group and um that's what the field ends up being utilized for um then that could be something that's considered. But if soccer is the predominant sport that people are looking for um then that could um you know steer that in that that direction. Um but those multiport fields do open it up for um more possibilities for different types of activities. >> Other comments, slots. >> So it seems like the only item that we haven't fully addressed is u the soccer field. I mean the others I sense that while maybe the other question is may well before we go in the soccer let's do the water feature. So the question I would have of the committee would be [clears throat] well a water feature came up and we had concluded a splash pad. Uh we didn't um we've had further comments tonight about how it could be scaled to that area. So the question would be uh considering that these two neighborhoods already have a water feature or a pool and while some may want more to have uh because their pool's small may want to have some place to go in the summer to use this. Are we better off doing some small feature in this park or would we be better off to wait in our community and find a space that we could have a bigger feature that would uh attract people from throughout the community. And I'm guessing there's a cost. Obviously, there's a cost to this. I don't I think they can be fairly expensive if they're bigger. I don't maybe not so much if they're smaller but Alyssa >> chair uh the one thing I I do want to note is yes it is is costly um we would have to get water to the site so that is a significant portion of the cost even if it is a smaller water feature or larger water feature we would have to figure out the water component and access. Um, the other piece I want to note is that the funding for both these parks is park land dedication. If we would do a larger splashback at a at a different park, um, that would also qualify for potential parkland dedication. So, we would potentially be utilizing the same funding source. >> Okay. So, I guess from a committee standpoint, um, you know, do we want to put this feature, a smaller feature in this park or do we want to look at uh potentially looking at a different site where we could put in a big bigger uh water feature? I I think the community wants the water feature. That's clear. I mean, every survey we've done, every the last few have indicated that. I think we're trying to address some of that by doing something unique here. So, I I think the city council is looking for a recommendation. So, we have >> Can I ask one more question? >> Certainly. >> Um, we briefly touched on it and I know it's not in the council's hands yet. There's not a sketch plat but the athlete athletes village that is bringing additional fields to our community but not public fields. Is there adjacent land next to that complex that's going to be city of Victoria land? >> Go ahead. Thank you, chair, members of the committee. Um, yes, there's not a lot that we can share right now. Um, but I can tell you that we have been having conversations with a group that is interested in bringing what what they're calling Athletes Village to our community. They are looking at purchasing 100 acre 180 acres in our south growth area. And um the primary user of the space would be for baseball. That's information that is you may have seen in social media. Um and we have we have some limited information that we have provided on our city website. That group is currently um working through um with all of their partners to determine um who potential partners are. They have we've had conversations about public and private partnership. And so there could definitely be an opportunity for the city to partner um with this group to uh address some of the community needs. And so that is something that they they have been open to. Um but we have not discussed that in in greater detail. And so I think some of the conversations that you're having here today about amenities that would drive maybe um more traffic um and would maybe serve more as a destination area should this project move forward. I think there it very much could be on the table to incorporate some of the ideas and recommendations that you have uh as part of those conversations which we'll be picking up here um soon. [snorts] So, they were scheduled, this group was scheduled to come at the end of November um to go to Sketch Plat. That has been postponed um and that has been postponed not for bad reasons, but because uh they're actually um working to expand their ideas. Um part of what we're what they are looking at doing too is um creating some commercial adjacency. um so that it could provide for um more destinationdriven um could accommodate more of a destination driven um amenity. So um the conversations that you're having about a larger water feature like a splash pad, something larger, um a larger outdoor ice rink, um or some of these other features, soccer fields, I think those are very much at play. Um, and we would be happy to bring those ideas forward if that's the consensus of the committee. >> Thank you. So before you leave, so would you say that you're hopeful that there could be a partnership to allow city programming on multiuse fields that aren't baseball or softball, but are a community need of like the multi-use soccer, lacrosse, football. So that would be accurate that you're hopeful for that that partnership. >> Chair, members of the committee, I am I can say with 100% confidence that I am very hopeful uh that that would be um something that they would accommodate >> and potentially even a splash pad location. that that would be up to the recommendation if there's a consensus by the committee here um which of course would be brought forward to the council but I will let that let you all discuss that but yes to answer your question hopeful yes thank you >> okay >> good news >> I have one other question on the kind of splashbad subject is there any park development planned with downtown west >> we talked about meeting but you can yeah re repeat for everyone here >> of course uh committee members chair uh there are certain areas of downtown west we are calling it a central green not necessarily calling it a park um but there is a a portion of that space that is able to be programmed so that programming has not been determined yet um also through downtown west there is plaza areas or what we're going to call plaza areas that are interjoined with the commercial spaces um that provide more flexibility for our programming. Uh that also has not been determined yet. So could there be an opportunity for water features within the central green? Potentially. Yes, that's something that we would like to hear from the committee as well. Um but yeah, that could be a space that we would see um water amenities being at. Yeah, >> seems at the last meeting we talked about that the developers uh were not very excited about a water feature for concern of people bringing wet bodies into their places of business. Uh so that would be something the committee would have to consider when it comes to that uh those park spaces. >> And I I would like to jump in here, chair, sorry for interrupting. Um the the the developer has spoken about the plaza being a challenge with potentially a splash pad because of you know the interaction with the the businesses and how they're the the traffic direction of pedestrian. However, the central green is farther away from those amenities. So that is an area where it's one larger could host that space. It has ample parking. Um so it could be an opportunity. >> Okay. >> I know that we talked last time >> that's new. Yeah, that's new from last week. >> Yeah, that was totally different than what we heard last time. And so that's actually I mean I thought last time when we talked about it is businesses. I understand why you wouldn't want to have uh people that are dripping wet coming into your place of business, but I guess I always thought that you'd probably rather have people that were wet coming into your business instead of nobody coming into your business. So, uh that if it be farther away, it might attract actually attract people to downtown area and and increase the business instead of decrease it or cause problems. So, >> yeah, I think that's a positive development. I mean, I think we've talked at previous beyond just last meeting, but previous meetings, right, of creating unique destination items to drive visitors to commercial spaces, especially with the downtown expansion and having something unique, a destination to be like, "Hey, come check this out." out and you're also surrounded by, you know, five restaurants and some local shops and things like that, whether that's downtown, downtown west, new south, you know, south end of town commercial district, right? But placing it there where there is kind of ample parking and and kind of driving people to a place where they can enjoy our community. >> I'm going to propose something just based on what we've learned this evening. Um, I would propose that uh what we outlined as a recommendation before that we uh keep everything in there except uh I would uh forego the splash pad recommendation for now. And uh with that I would I switch the recommendation that we do need a water feature but we should explore um other places for that uh splash pad. Uh second, I would I would say that we should have a multi-port field uh more maybe green space I should say that can be used for multiple things that we not necessarily stripe it at this time. uh that we uh work with uh you know opportunities that may present themsel within the next year to have those more destination type things in there. So, what that's that would be what I'm hearing that I think probably would address the concerns of the greater community, uh, the neighborhood, the people living right next to this. Um, >> I'd add for the green space. Curious others if we could add the outdoor ice rink as a recommendation for the winter on that multi-use green space or just green. >> Oh, I think I mean, yes, it sounds like that's already kind of be under investigation based on what Alyssa said. Uh, that the council already set aside money for that is my understanding of where we could have an outdoor ice rink. is are we are we just creating uh I mean just thinking out loud if we have uh sky skating or hockey arena or whatever in the neighborhood are we creating the same problem we are with soccer fields only it's going to be in the winter now instead of the summer because if I don't think we're going to have one of these in each park I don't think that's what I heard uh so we're looking at that so before before we jump into that. Are we just, you know, swapping a soccer field for a hockey rink and hockey rinks and it's dark? >> We're going to have need lights on a hockey rink, not on a soccer field. So, um, maybe be careful what we ask for if we have a concern in the community. >> The I I fully kind of agreed with what you said about the splash bed. do think the survey results were pretty clear that a soccer field is highly desirable. Um, and I think there is room for it in this park and there's room for parking and it's close to a main road. It makes a lot of sense to me as a location for that. I I'm not sure that it shouldn't be a soccer field. Uh, just speaking for myself. >> Um, >> I'd be curious to hear what other >> So, I'll repeat what I repeated last time. Have you been to a youth soccer or other sporting event? >> Not not recently. >> Okay. So, here's the situation. If there's a game there, you have two teams. If there's two teams, you have 15 kids on each team. So, that's 15 cars each team minimum. But guess what? Parents don't drive together because you have other kids that you're driving around. Also, grandma and grandpa, multiple grandma and grandpas sometimes show up at games. And then if you are on a any sort of team, you're required to get there 45 minutes early. So now you don't just have two teams there, you actually have four teams there. So like like [clears throat] Rap City and Lake um town and whatnot with the little parking lots like you have like softball practice there and it's just mom and dad dropping off their child and heading home because you're using a Victoria amenity and it's awesome and you have you know 10 12 little girls out there but like we can't control what those fields are programmed with. That's what we understood. Like we can't restrict it to only practices. We're not allowed to do that. So they would then be programmed for games. So that's where I expressed a lot of concern over the soccer field is because just the the amount of of people that would be at a game is it really compounds really quickly. >> I agree. I think um programming games, soccer games in that neighborhood, I just think the traffic is going to be and newly we learned that we might be hopeful for a partnership at Athletes Village and that's new from last time too. And that hope is like that they would be open to a partnership when they're already bringing athletes to their um facilities and maybe that they're open to expanding you know the certain type of uh you know uh field offerings that they have there. Um, I just think that that's a a huge potential opportunity for us instead of putting a um any sort of striped field inside a neighborhood. >> Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think if it's a space that can be used for recreation, it's great. Once you stripe it, it's a it changes the narrative. I mean, using the Lake Bridge statistics that Alyssa gave us to kick off the meeting, between April and October, Lake Bridge had 180 rentals. So that's six months. That's one a day. And it's not all just one a day. But if you, you know, one a day is a lot. And then, you know, that that's stacked up with some gaps. And I I think to to Mary and Amanda's point, right, like the traffic and the demand would be tough. I think there's other locations whether it's a potential opportunity at Athletes Village or it's looking at spaces more central um like Lions Park that could be repurposed if there's a substantial need for the community that's more of a community park. I you know open to other examples but I mean I think from a recommendation standpoint you know I was in line with the field that would not be striped >> at least at this time. I think that was my proposal at this time was was just to have the green space uh as >> I wouldn't eliminate it for future use if the other doesn't materialize but I think we can I think it's clear that a soccer field's needed um and it's wanted uh does it have to be in this park? I guess my concern is if we don't call it a soccer field, is there going to be sufficient parking if it becomes a soccer field later? Like, >> well, I think we should >> This is part of the development plan. >> I think the parking needs to go in anyway. >> Yeah. >> I think the other thing too, in fairness to other neighborhoods who have uh have the already have these things in their in their area. It's uh we got to think about them too. by not having enough soccer fields. Are we having more games in other places or are our residents who have children playing soccer having to travel to Chanhass and their Chesa to play soccer? I mean, we we don't want to be inconveniencing all them either. So that I mean >> and those other res together as a community here and sometimes when you live by a park >> uh you're going to have some things that you really like and you're going to have some things that probably you wouldn't necessarily want. And uh part of that's being um part of a community and understanding the need for for different things. And part of it as a community and leaders is recognizing we maybe can't have everything we want in a neighborhood park is we don't want to. That's why we discussed even though pickle ball was one of the things that came up last time we said we don't think pickle well people may want it. It's going to be pretty noisy in that neighborhood and we have other capacities. So we kind of pushed that off to the side and said we have that in a central location now. It's not fully utilized at the present time. So let's do that. So we all need to work together and under have an understanding that uh um got to be a little give and take here and uh it's not just what the community or the neighborhood wants, not just what the overall community wants. It's kind of a how can we work together to to make this. So I still would go with my initial uh proposal um to I think we have some time here as uh was stated earlier by uh as the process was outlined by Dana and Alyssa um that we have uh some some time to see what transpires with these other uh developments that we weren't aware of. So, but I I don't think we can rule out forever that we wouldn't have a soccer field there. Hopefully, we have another alternative that makes more sense. But, uh, >> where would the basketball court go? I think that was one that was prominent. I know if we're if we didn't have the soccer field and we had more of a basketball court, would we where would we put that? I guess in Hunterbrook. I think it I won't I I'll try and answer and correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is we're coming up with concepts of the things that we want >> and I think at their last meeting we talked about you know dependent on what space was available where we put these things and maybe Jenna or could listen >> chair committee members um chair you're absolutely correct this is more of just high in the sky what type of amenities would we have here? What we'll do after this meeting is work with our engineering team and then obviously even work with a design consultant to say, you know, here are the things that we would like to have in this park. How could you see this work with the layout that we currently have? Um and then obviously we'd get back design proposals and and this was going to be my next point to the committee of um we would bring that back to you. So before it even gets to uh the next step of budget and that high or that conversation with like council on a full-on approval, um you would all be able to see like what this park would actually look like as a layout um once we have the the design in our hands. >> Other comments including a public restroom? >> Uh I was not So maybe a quick accounting of what's in and what's out. >> Okay. Didn't I do >> I I I I have it written down based on >> Please do >> uh playground for all addressing five through 12 with traditional features which traditional features like playground items can include swings, lip lions, climbing but another feature is the obstacle and then scratching soccer field scratching splash pad scratching bathrooms. There will still need to be parking of some sort is what I have written down and a covered picnic shelter of some sort providing shade I have written down as well. So, I did have a question on the basketball court because we did have that at the other park, but based on feedback, it sounded like this Hunterbrook neighborhood really wanted the inclusion of a basketball court. >> Yeah, I would put basketball court in the Hunters Brook one. I didn't hear that. >> Green space. >> Uh, green space. >> I didn't put multi-use because that's something different. So green space would be >> and then what the other thing was didn't we have a dog run or something? >> Well that's on the other one. So we haven't even got to that >> recommendation. >> I think we're just you know what we don't want to do is we just don't want to transfer this whole thing and have the same discussion next week with the Marsh Howell neighborhood. I think it's these amenities in these two parks is kind of what I was trying to get at our recommendation overall. I'm sorry if it wasn't that. >> Oh, >> I didn't understand that. >> I didn't understand that either because I still had I still had Marsh Hollow in a separate column. >> What you just a clarifying question. Chair, committee members. Um for the playground unit, would we want to do a 0 to 12 with variety of amenities? that 5 to 12. >> Correct. >> Yep. >> Correct. >> Okay. Good catch. >> Then I guess a question for the committee and open to thoughts, but on like the covered shelter, was that just to accommodate the shade >> shaded structure area like have to be a permanent structure or would it just be a shade feature? I mean, I think >> I don't know. I believe like that would maybe be brought back to us because a specific neighborhood said like they they did want picnic features and they also wanted shade >> features. Okay, that wasn't and that's new. >> That's new. We didn't talk about that last time or we did and we didn't put it on didn't get a priority. So that would be something new. Uh, we also didn't include when we look at both parks, there was a hammock village or hammocks or whatever by the park trails or whatever. >> Um, >> I'll say one thing on the marsh hollow one. I think we we I know we're trying to go through our list here, but I think we did a at the last meeting. I know it wasn't perfect on maybe the exact things, but we were trying to get a unique aspect to each one. I want to make sure we don't lose, especially at Marsh Hollow. I think that has the chance with the wooded features, the shade people want like it's in the woods. Let's let's not lose that aspect that's going to make it a unique park and not have the 20 years they're going to ask why on earth did this committee do copycat in both spots and it's not getting used >> anymore. >> Would we have the ability to add a sledding hill at Marsh Hollow, Jenna? Do you think? I'm hearing the community asked for a sledding hill and that park has the topography possibly for a sledding hill. >> Something that can be considered. Yes. >> Again, I I think that's a good point. We had talked before about if you have a hill, you're going to have sledding whether it's organized or not. If you call it an organized sledding hill, you're also going to get people coming from other places in the community to go sledding. So, you keep that in mind, too. Well, it just it it impacts how you plan the park because you don't want to be like landing the park into the >> parking lot or you know that kind of thing. So, >> good point. >> Before we go to a vote, I would just say that I kind of view our role as the committee here is to make recommendations that represent the asks of the community. And I think the asks of the community based on the survey results, based on the people who voted in the survey pretty clearly say soccer field. I don't feel it's a good contest to recommend to city council that we not put in a soccer field based on the survey results. >> I just want for the record. >> Okay. >> I have a question for the committee. We had recommended dog park in Marsh Hollow. We learned today that the Marsh Hollow Clubhouse amenities actually have a private dog park. Do we think that's duplication of amenities? >> How big is it? Because I live in Huntersburg and didn't even know they had a dog park. >> I chair, committee members, I I'm not sure on the specific size. It's I don't believe it to be very large. >> I think it's just for that community. So it's private. >> I think this was a dog dog run. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And the fact if you have a you don't have a specific place, people are still going to take their dogs there and they're going to run. That happens in other parks. So you can kind of control where it happens or it's going to happen anyway probably. Okay. So where are we? We we've got we still I don't think we don't have a consensus yet. Um which is okay. I mean I'm fine being the outlier if no one else agrees >> with no just no just you don't have to I I don't disagree with you. >> And that would be my preference but I guess I also see that there's some other opportunities. That's why in my proposal I said for now >> just looking at it numerically I feel like we're giving 28 emails more weight than 187 survey responses >> and the the majority is clear in both the residents who are close to the parks and in Victoria they both want a soccer field >> with would the green space because I mean we spent the summer looking at unused green spaces so we're adding another one. uh would this would we level do more kind of grazing to make sure that could be playable in the future or if we say green space it's just going to sit how it is today? chair, committee members. Um, based on the conversation, I know that part of the conversation or at least some of the the highlights have been that this open space would could eventually turn into some sort of field with that recommendation. That is the recommendation that we bring as part of the design part is we'd want this to eventually or not even eventually, but we'd want it to be flat enough so in the future it could potentially turn into a field. Now, if that's not the recommendation of the committee, we can direct that elsewhere. Um, however, that's how I've interpreted it. I'm just listening into the conversation >> incorporating Jacob's thoughts. That was part of my when I said my proposal and and why I said for now because I think I think the compromise here is look at what other alternatives exist. And I think that way we address the community's concern about they need a soccer field. If there aren't any other things in the near future or within, you know, reasonable time or other alternatives, I think we're doing a disservice to our community saying we can't have that there. >> Yeah. >> Especially when they've asked for it. Um, so I I think I think that gives the the city and the council time to explore other alternatives that are in the works. And if those come to fruition, the issues solved for the neighborhood. If they aren't resolved that way, then I think, you know, I think it's appropriate to have a soccer field there. uh even and that's my own belief and I think that addresses all the needs. I don't think we can say I don't think we can have one neighborhood dictate what the whole community wants nor can the community dictate just what the neighborhood you know for the neighborhood. I think it's got to be a give and take here. So >> unstriped green space then would be the recommendation >> initially. Yes. initially, >> but I think it needs to be of a size that could accommodate a soccer field in the future. That way, we've addressed the need for a soccer field. We've paid attention to the neighborhood concerns about, you know, their concerns about I don't have to reiterate the the traffic, the noise, whatever. Um, but I think I think it probably looks pretty positive that there may be other opportunities for a soccer field. So, I think we've addressed everybody's concerns and um and I don't think we can say forever that a future committee or future city councils may decide something totally different for these parks than 20 years from now, who knows? Um okay. So, are we ready to make a recommendation? Does that help address your concern, Jacob? >> No. Uh, okay. I mean, like I would feel more comfortable recommending a soccer field, but you know, including in our recommendation that we've heard feedback from the community about traffic. If city council thinks there are near-term opportunities for soccer fields that may alleviate some of those concerns, then we think this could be a multi-use field. If not, a soccer field is probably best. Like, I still feel like a soccer field should be the number one recommendation. acknowledging the concerns. I hear the concerns about traffic. At the same time, it's what the community is asking for it. You know, our hands are a little bit tied in terms of we're representing the community. >> I I think that that sounds reasonable. I think that's another way of doing the same thing. Um so, and I think that addresses the number one concern. So maybe we can say uh that we would like to design the space for a soccer facility. However, uh there are concerns that have been expressed and that we feel that um should there be other opportunities for a soccer field coming up that um we should utilize. we'd recommend utilizing that as to help alleviate some other concerns. Kind of put it back in the council's lap that way. >> I don't know. I disagree. Like I I think we're just I not to not find middle ground, but I guess I would propose that like notwithstanding the fact that there's ample space for a soccer field. We don't think that space is the right to accommodate, but city council feels otherwise if the need outweighs the location and the issues at the space, then that is up to them. Right. I mean, we are making a res recommendation. I I we've heard a handful of folks communicate the traffic issue and the programming issue that the field could bring. So, I think we need to put forth the recommendation we want them to accept based upon feedback. How do how do we address you know I I understand what you're saying but I I look at uh was it Lakebridge and Ras Ras >> Rap City >> whatever you know that already have these I I I think we're getting into >> but >> some dangerous areas here I I think um I I I think we know that soccer field is a need or a want. Certainly a want, probably a need based on input that we've got from our community. I think we've heard that there's other potential options that would solve this whole issue, but I don't think we can permanently say that we're never going to have a sports field in this park when we don't know for sure that we have these other ones. Now, I think perhaps we would all agree that if these other developments take place and there's soccer fields or sports fields that the public can use that we'd be that'd be great. Then we solved the problem. But, however, if there isn't, I don't think we can say there's never going to be a soccer field in this park. I think that'd be a we'd be lying to our citizens because we don't know what a future council or future park board, park committee uh would recommend. So, >> yeah, I I don't disagree. I think we're making a recommendation today with to today's lens and and you can see see what's going on in Lake Bridge and and what the need is, right? But we're making the decision through, you know, at at today and I think we're not foreclosing on it in the future. And I think it is this balance, right? There are there are a lot of survey results that show soccer field, but we're here tonight having this conversation again because there were 28 community emails that the city council read and encouraged us to reconsider um the recommendations. Right. So they they heard they listened and we were kind of redirected here for this conversation. So I think when you carry those excuse me when you weigh those in balance I think we need to consider that as well. Well, if you I I certainly we do need to consider that, but we also got to consider the 188 people who said they wanted a soccer field. Yeah. >> City council passed it back to us before the survey results were broken down by people close to the parks and in Victoria and both of which are consistent with the soccer field. So, that's why I feel like we should stay with the recommendation soccer field. not, you know, I'm not saying that if we had broken down the server results and it turned out that everybody voting for the soccer field was from outside of Victoria, that's a different story. Uh, but that wasn't what the data show. >> Uh, please please Hey, we're not take >> say please. Uh, this isn't a open forum right now. It's just a committee. You can talk to us afterwards. Thank Thank you. >> Um, okay. Can I ask Jenna? >> Um, Rep City, for example, is a softball baseball field for youth, although I don't know that it's large enough to be programmed or striped, so it doesn't get games. Is that a accurate statement? >> Uh, so Rep City is not a soccer field. There's just a ball field at that one. However, um Lakebridge neighborhood does have a programmable soccer field and ball field at both and both of them are scheduled with activities. Um and I will say we don't get um a lot of public comment um regarding the usage of that. Um there are um 24 plus one parking spots um for that location and those do get heavily utilized. Um and I will say that those um that soccer field is a lot closer to the residences um than it would be in Hunters. Um but That's kind of the situation here. >> And does does the city um I know we we spoke revenue, but do do you just manage reservations or do you do the sports organizations pay for field usage? >> This is an agreement with the organizations to utilize it for benefit. >> Yeah. So they don't pay. So there could be other soccer fields that the organization would need to pay for. So right now it's a benefit to the youth organizations that have youth in our communities that are participating in their athletics and um they don't need to pay for our city of Victoria field usage. So the the organization could choose to find uh space that they would maybe need to pay for instead of you know a city of Victoria park. >> I mean these are Victoria residents many of them and they are paying taxes to the city. So we they do pay for it in a way. I I understand what you're saying, but it's I mean that's where I'm coming from with representing the the survey results is that these are these are taxpayer voters. >> Okay. I don't know if we've resolved anything. Well, [laughter] because I I mean I mean I I I can't in good conscience say that I will this time say okay to recommendation that includes a soccer field. I was strong on it last time but said okay for so that we could develop our parks but >> for programming for games I mean you're looking at 60 plus you know vehicles that's if grandma and grandpa and everyone else doesn't come and that's just way different than a 21 space parking lot in a in a current neighborhood park that's not having issues or expressing concerns. >> And I think I was going to from a compromise side where what the community is saying and what what we're doing here. I was going to before no soccer field keep a splash pad. Community says they wanted a splash pad. We're balancing it by not putting both in one. >> So I was going to try to go that route was how I would have proposed it. Leave that as like a basketball court which is what the community wants. The community wants a splash pad. you now hit a gap in water feature and you hit the basketball court multi-use flat space that we have there for that neighborhood. That's how I would have probably put a recommendation forward. >> Still can >> or I would I would probably put that forward. >> Want to make a motion? >> Yeah, I would make a motion to have a playground zero to 12. I would put a water feature. We can let it be defined what that is uh in the design process. And then I would put a basketball court as the third one. No soccer field. I would eliminate and use that green space. >> Did we get all the things that other things that we're missing something in there? I don't have that. >> We're parking and parking and shelter. >> We can work through it. covered shelter. >> Yeah. >> Unless I just wanted to note we don't need a formal motion. This is a discussion item. So what we would like is consensus whether it's four of you making a decision on what you'd like these spaces to be. It doesn't have to be a formal motion. >> The advantage of having a formal motion is that we aren't rehashing the same thing for the next seven meetings. So yeah, I would say we would like to make a recommend. were asked to make a recommendation to the council and I think we should do that and they can it is a recommendation they can choose to do whatever they want with it but I think it would be nice to be able to put down this is what like we did last time so we aren't talking about the same thing so >> so that would be for Hunters Brook a playground basketball court we would have a water feature of some sense parking lot. Would anyone added anything onto that for Hunterbrook >> cover shelter >> leveled unmarked green space? >> Green space. >> And did you guys hear Mary shelter? >> What do we think? >> I don't know. Um >> next to a playground. I think it's just nice to have >> it's some shaded I'm in agreement. some type of shade feature, especially hitting zero through 12, like a shade feature is important. >> Whether that ends up being a covered shelter sale, you know, whatever's >> trees. Yeah, trees, whatever. >> Canopy type deal or something. >> Okay. Well, that can come up in a concept design. >> Yep. >> Okay. Do we have we included all the things we had before in that? Is there a sec? Do you want to add that? >> Yeah. So, I've got a motion for Hunters Brook to be a playground 0 to 12, the basketball court, water feature, parking lot, a shade feature, and an unmarked grass space. >> Is there a second to that motion? >> I'll second it. Um, any further discussion? All those in favor of said motion say I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> Oppose say no. >> No. >> Okay. One. No. And rest. Uh. Yay. Eyes. So motion carries. Okay. Uh so that's just a recommendation that we have after considering uh the new information that we had. Now we have the other park. Uh do we want to do that? You want to make a motion on the things we have on that >> or anybody? >> I can. >> Okay. >> Okay. So for Marsh Hollow, based on what we've discussed here, um we would include a make a recommendation to include a playground nature themed, a dog run, a hammock village, and based on feedback, a sledding hill and and a sledding hill >> is in the current list. is that >> there wasn't a parking lot in this original um recommendation. We didn't discuss parking on this. >> It's in the >> property. It is in the >> It is on the notes. >> The notes, but >> Okay. >> Yeah. She didn't mention it tonight, but I think we did have >> Okay. Yeah. >> Uh I would suggest dropping the dog run. We're pretty close to some very big dog parks, and I think they're a little bit of a chore to maintain and keep nice. So, I don't And and since there is already a dog run in that neighborhood for the people who live in that neighborhood seems a little unnecessary. >> Alyssa, were you going to address the parking? >> Thank you. Uh chair, committee members, I I'm looking this up quick and I'll actually pull it up here um for Marsh Hollow. I I want to check to make sure there isn't bumpout parking already included nearby that park. So it obviously you have the ability to make the decision on if a parking lot makes sense for this but there is I believe some sort of bumpout parking and Jenna is saying yes. So I believe that is the case then. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So there are um a few spots already available. The other the other thing to keep in mind with the last motion and this this one that's coming up is this is a concept at this point and there we're going to be getting I'm guessing something back at some point in time with here's uh the information that you provided. this council will have had an opportunity to to weigh in and at some point it's going to come back to us with okay based on staff here's what would go in there and we're going to be able to talk about those things again but if they fit or not fit or the budgets there or not that's beyond our purview at this time. Okay. So motion >> Well, was there other discussion? >> Do we want to have a >> Okay. So, you want to re restate your motion, please? >> Okay. So, it was at the Marsh Hollow Park. The recommendations would be a nature themed playground, dog run, hammock village, sledding hill. >> Okay. Second. >> Motion's been made and second. And is there any further discussion hearing? None. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> I. >> Oppose say no. >> Motion carried. We're done. Thank you everyone. Um, any other business? Yes. Alyssa >> here not to drag this meeting on any longer and hold you hostage. Um but we do just want to update you um that you probably noticed um when you looked at the meeting packet that the meeting agenda templates have been updated to current city branding. So just wanted to to let you all know that that will be uh the look of the agenda moving forward. Um the other piece to remain consistent amongst all of our committees and commissions as well as city council. We are updating all of our committee and commissions agenda order. Um, so no longer in future meetings will you see old business or new business. We'll keep it as a regular agenda. So all of the items will fall under the regular agenda item instead of spacing them out between past business and new business to more or less keep the order of a meeting consistent amongst all of our committee meetings and council meetings. >> Okay. Anything further for the good of the cause? If not, thank you everyone. Thanks for attending this evening and stating your concerns. Thanks for the I thought we had a good discussion and it wasn't an easy one but uh hopefully that's helpful to the council and staff. So with that motion to put in order. >> So moved. >> Moved and seconded. All in favor say I. Meetings adjourned. Thanks. >> Thanks everyone. Thank you.