As usual, if I run out of here. >> Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. It is now 5:30 >> and I will call our work session uh to order. And it's wonderful to see all of our residents who are here for the meeting. Thank you for joining us. Members of the public are welcome to attend in person. And uh they may also choose to watch the meeting at burnsvillemn.gov/meings or uh on Comcast channel 16 or 859. And the public can also participate through Zoom by joining us at zoom. us/join and more information is available on our meeting web page and in the council agenda packet. So it is a work session and we go directly to uh the items on our uh agenda this evening and the first uh item [snorts] on the agenda is our legislative uh discussion and uh fire chief BJ Youngman is presenting. Chief Jungman, floor is yours. Good evening, Madame Mayor, members of the council. Uh thanks for having me tonight. Um before you should be a draft document uh with a 2026 uh legislative agenda. Uh we also have Alex from LGN here if we have any questions. So uh I'll run with it, but she's here to uh to answer any real hard questions for me. So uh we're fortunate to have partnership with LGN. They do a great job representing us at the capital. uh have great experience in government relations. So um so I'll just run through these. Please stop me if you have any questions or any thoughts as we go. Um our top three priorities uh from last year carried forward to this year as proposed would be to keep EMS local control and con construction sales tax exemption for the police city hall construction. Uh [snorts] of note on the local control, uh we propose adding a little bit of language around uh land use and zoning uh in there as well as uh uh holding um assisted living or congregate care accountable for providing the care they're supposed to. >> Yeah, I really like that addition. That's it strengthens it. More clarification about local control on land use. >> Yeah, I think so. So I think given the tone and tenor and the things we've seen at the legislature, I think it >> well suits us for a position. >> So >> I think a lot of the folks here also likes that. [laughter] >> And then uh if there's no questions on the on the top priorities, I'd move into the state funding requests. These are uh the same just updated with new numbers from last year to this year. Uh state funding requests. Uh the water treatment plant we've asked for bonding money for. uh we've gotten a bonding tour um as well. So, we hopefully to be successful on the water treatment renovations and then the long-term uh project we've been working on on the Nicollet and 13 mobility improvement. basically getting the uh bridge over or under 13 there uh to allow pass through uh without with some grade separation to increase safety at Nickel and 13 and and really that is about uh working with Mindot to get trunk highway funds as we've exhausted the general obligation bonds we can use on that. So, Chief, in your conversation with um with Ann and Alex and the group, uh I think um what we're asking for because our project is a lot more than 8.5 [clears throat] million, but we brought it down quite a bit. This has better um legs on it, if you will, with the legislators um >> for the bonding. >> Madame Mayor, I think we've accomplished a piece of the project. We phased it out a little bit. I think the I think the amount uh is more in line with what we see come out of the bonding committee. Yeah. >> And again, we phased some things out and as technology evolves, some of the things, you know, uh like some of the POS stuff and some of that we don't exactly know what we'll need for exactly in the future. So, we kind of got more solidified in what we're looking for there. So, >> okay. Because I'm always looking at our capital improvement plan and this is one of those. And then this will help in that regard, but we still need more to do without. >> Yeah, I would agree. I think our capital improvement plan has has some great things in it, but this would help us with a significant renovation that needs to occur there. [snorts] >> All right. And then I would move into supporting positions. Uh the first one being the freeway landfill and dump remediation. Uh the biggest thing there is just pulling out partnering with the MPCA and just leaving it a little more general that we're committed to address the environmental challenges and we're committed basically to ensure that we have clean drinking water um if any were to develop down there essentially. So um next is the host community grant economic development grant program. This is a long-standing program since we do host the landfill in town and want to keep that grant. uh the SRO legislation [clears throat] implementation. This has been there last year. We we think it's good to keep this year. There hasn't been an issue. There was discussion of how that new legislation last year was going to be implemented and challenges. Thankfully, we have not seen that come to fruition. Uh but we think keeping it on there at least for another year would be helpful. >> Yeah. >> Uh the last one on the left column there's a statuto plan B administrative purchasing. Uh statuto plan A cities have a higher administrative third uh purchasing threshold. Uh we would like to see that commensurate for statutory plan B uh governments. That still does not change the council's authority to set whatever administrative purchasing levels below the state threshold, but it would at least allow us to go up to that threshold uh which has been $20,000 for many many years. >> Yeah. >> Um the right hand column there's the aggregate mining fee again having to do with uh being host uh to an aggregate producer in town and having the quarry. um that's been a long-standing position. And the last one is the franchise fees, continuing to monitor that and maintain the local ability to establish and control franchise fees. So with that, that would be staff's recommendation for a 2026 [clears throat] legislative agenda. I would stand for any questions you might have. >> Okay, members of the council, any questions uh for um Chief Gentleman? I just think it's the right direction for us to take. I like the additions um on local control and um and also I I like the on the franchise fees that we'll continue to advocate u to continue it and monitor it and make sure that it does that all go away. >> Yeah. So if Yes. Chief >> and Madame Mayor and council, I failed to mention earlier and sends her regrets from LGN being able to make it tonight with the weather, but uh she wishes she could be here, but uh traffic apparently 35 South was not great today. So >> yeah. No. >> GI. [clears throat] >> Yeah. If not, uh and if there's consensus staff uh to move forward and it'll come on. Okay. And it'll come to us in a consent agenda. >> That is correct. I will put it on that consent agenda for next week. >> Yeah. For for next week. >> Thank you. >> Very good. Thank you so much. Okay. And now Mark. >> Sure. >> Fleet study. >> All right. >> The first time I have seen a very comprehensive fleet study with 43 recommendations. >> But who's counting, right? So well done. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. No. >> Good evening, council members. The presentation you see this evening is the same one uh that you have seen before. So just full context on on the setup for this. Um as with all comprehensive studies, what we have, the condition it's in, how we're going to maintain it, improvements that have made been made since we kind of initially started this effort, and really kind of what I'm really excited about is using the data we're setting the the structure for today to better inform our long-term decision making. looking across our entire system here is the breakdown of vehicles and equipment uh by department. So the example I use there public works keep in mind that's large blow it's not only vehicles it's large blowers it's trailers it's it's a wide assortment of stuff whereas for example it is is a single vehicle so a wide range of stuff you can see that we have uh to support city operations looking at the replacement cost of those vehicles you can see the um the breakdown of the percentage and sorry the average age and then moving on to The condition of our equipment, it's generally we are very high with well average and above is the majority of our equipment. Look at the replacement cost by that condition. You can see again the kind of the breakdown there with roughly 16% of the value of the fleet in that poor below average condition rating. As we look at our vehicle condition, this is really what informs that there are six major groupings. So the most common one people are familiar with would be vehicle age, mileage, and usage types. So for example, a vehicle that would drive on the highway is a different than a vehicle that' be stopping and starting um for that same kind of type of mileage. Engine hours is a big one especially for say the fire department with they have medic rigs or fire engines that are constantly idling uh to provide to provide the essential services um inside [clears throat] those vehicles. Body and condition equipment today being a great example. Salt is not great on vehicle bodies and so that can uh accelerate the wear and tear depending on the vehicle. Maintenance history and cost trends. So for vehicles that we identify that are having some sort of ongoing issue that could accelerate the rate um of need to replace that vehicle compared to its companion vehicles of a similar type. An operational role and redundancy. There are a few vehicles in our fleet um where it doesn't make sense to have multiple of them but they're not easily um we can't provide that service a different way. So, as that vehicle starts to deteriorate in condition, we need to replace it potentially while it's still in a decent condition because there's no redundancy should it go down. We can't the the risk of having that vehicle fall into a poor condition is not acceptable due to the potential impact on city services. Looking at the replacement guidelines. So as soon as a vehicle comes in the door here, we already schedule its replacement on a range from 6 years to 20 years based on what the vehicle is and what its function is. That vehicle condition criteria that we just discussed then informs the actual replacement of that vehicle as we get to get to know the vehicle over its time here at the city. Looking at the now adopted CIP, uh you can see the average spend is $4.5 million per year and the range varies from 3.2 up to 7.1 million per year. Taking that breakdown and looking at it by department, you can see the breakdown kind of looking at the percentage of the fleet relative to the percentage of the CIP over the next five years. [clears throat] One of the big parts of the fleet study was looking at the operational um activities of the group. So this is really a foundational look. We looked at the technology we use. We looked at the processes that our staff use, the operational analysis. So um how we do the work, how we track information, and then really that led to collecting data. So So we one of the things that came out of it was a standardized operating procedure. So we're consistently collecting data. That information then can be used and leveraged to inform future decision-makings on replacement cycles and other key decisions as they come up in the future. Ultimately the the core recommendations coming out of the fleet study continue to clean up data and increase the use of asset works continue evolution of our standard operating procedures. Um really because we're getting good staff behind and so can we keep being better about that? continue to use GPS across our system but look at consolidating from our two systems into one system in the future CIP incorporate the remaining below and poor condition vehicles and account for those develop and implement utilization metrics. So basically work with our various stakeholders in the city to develop some of those metrics that we can use to look at vehicle can vehicle health and are we really meeting the needs um of that customer. Ultimately use that consistent data then to inform the replacement schedule and funding model long term. For example um as you see in the next bullet point once we have a better feel for how our vehicles are being used that can inform looking at something like a vehicle lease program for example. And with that, I will field any questions you may have. >> Questions, comments for staff. >> I know the fun topic is next. >> I liked it. >> I appreciate that, Mayor. >> I enjoyed reading the report and also really understanding what our vehicles would look like. Actually, it really informed me with regard to the life cycle of the different vehicles because, you know, we [clears throat] don't just look at a vehicle and think, okay, my vehicle, you know, I can uh run it for over a 100,000 miles and it's okay. But that's different with the different standards and what you have to look at because some may be older and have less mileage, but it's how it's being used. >> Exactly. Correct, Mayor. >> So, that informed me because I used to question, why is this why are we replacing this when it only has 30,000 miles on it? But that's not the only criteria that you look at. >> Exactly. Correct. And I'm that was that's exactly your takeaway is exactly what we hope that any reader of this would walk away with that we're using data and we're thinking comprehensively about how we manage our fleet and use taxpayer dollars. Well, as someone who and all of us in terms of our fiduciary responsibility for all of these assets that belong to the people and what are we doing and how well do we understand what this all means and how we um replace them and and so forth. So it helped to inform me with regard to how much that the total number of those assets and how much it costs and then how it's going to inform the capital improvement plan because this is something that we deal with on an ongoing basis every year. And then I'm looking at all of that when I'm looking at fleet at 42 plus million dollars for those total assets. Then it reminded me of parks is $76 million of total asset. And yet then how we plug all of that into the CIP as we move forward on replacements on each of all of these things that is our fiduciary responsibility to the community. So to Greg and all of our uh leadership team, thank you. I have I have enjoyed reading all of this because it helped inform me on things that I didn't know but now I know. >> Yes, >> this was a very good process for us to go through as a group mayor um and just really involve the staff and talk about very seemingly nuanced things and how that impacts the overall operation and how we can really create the best experience for our employees so they can take care of the equipment that supports other employees to deliver the services to our residents. So, if there's nothing else, great report because you don't need anything from us. Uh, no [clears throat] decision for tonight, but thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Okay, the next item is our neighborhood grant uh application review and um our human resource director, Mike Tracy, is presenting. Mike, the floor is yours. Yes, good evening, mayor and council. Um, as you mentioned, here to talk about neighborhood grants program. Um, before diving into the actual projects that were submitted for council uh discussion and review, just going to do a quick overview of the neighborhood grant program. Uh, just for uh clarity. Um, so again, this is a one-year um pilot program designed to make outrageous efforts to reach and connect the community. Our plan was to create a simple neighborhood organization and grant program and then over the course of this year learned from our experience um and make adjustments as uh as needed. So, city council gave direction to staff um to have the community define the neighborhoods um provide grant funding up to $100,000 from surplus property uh sales and each neighborhood is eligible for grants up to $10,000. Um, and then to fund the administration of the program, we're currently reallocating staff resources to do so. Quick history of the timeline. So, back it was September 2024 when council uh gave the direction to launch the pilot program. In January, staff launched uh launched the program earlier this year. Um, over the course of those 8 to nine months, we've been working with the community to establish neighborhoods. Um, I'll show you in this next slide. We have five um formally recognized or formally established neighborhoods. Um late summer, we opened up the grant application process which closed in October. Since then, staff have been reviewing the [snorts] applications um in preparation uh for this December uh work session. So, as I mentioned, we have five established neighborhoods um as of right now. Um, Cedar Bridge, River's Edge, Early Lake, North River Hills, Parkwood South, and South River Hills. The grant process, we try to keep it as simple and easy as possible. So, neighborhoods submit grant applications to staff, um, we review it, um, and provide recommendations to the city council who then issues the awards for the grants. As a reminder, the grant applications, again, up to $10,000 per neighborhood. um they're for projects that benefit the community, relate to the purpose of the city, and don't have a private benefit. So, with that, and you'll see this in some of the grant application projects from staff recommendations, there are some public purpose considerations here. Um some examples of eligible expenses, neighborhood and community building events, which you'll see there's a lot of those in the these project requests from the neighborhoods. um as well as neighborhood assets um and spaces. So overall we had 14 grant applications submitted by the five neighborhoods. You'll see it break broke down here by neighborhood. Uh staff after reviewing are recommending 12 of the 14 uh grant applications for for council approval with a total estimated cost of $50,000. So going neighborhood by neighborhood here. Cedar Bridge um has a number of different projects. There's two in here that I'll go into in on the next slide in terms of staff not recommending. Um but the ones that staff are so a bike rack um and two park benches as well as a pet waist station um those are uh park assets um that staff recommend for approval. um this decorative boulders where the Cedar uh Cedar Bridge um neighborhood sign is. Part of the project request was um placing some boulders there. Um staff have identified boulders um that the city has that we can use um so there'll be no cost for that. Um and then some directional signage uh to help in the neighborhood. And are they going to do their own [snorts] artwork on the boulders or >> that that I don't know. Okay. [snorts] >> Um certainly could be u but I have not I >> they they want a boulder and then we can provide them with a boulder. >> Correct. Yep. Yep. And we've been working with staff in terms of making sure it's in >> to give to them. Mark, did you say you got three? >> I believe mayor the request for for three boulders. >> Three bolders. Three boulders. >> Okay. that will be placed near the sign in the public rightway. >> Okay. >> Um so there are two requests um with Cedar uh Cedar Bridge that staff are not recommending. So one was solar flashing lights uh on a stop sign on Haze. Um the traffic committee reviewed this request um as typical practice for any type of signal um request and do not recommend the installation um due to traffic safety standards. Um the other one was a basketball court fence um at Cedar Bridge Park um where the basketball court sits on top of that hill. Uh the neighborhood is requesting a fence because the basketball rolls down the hill which is very annoying. Um and the kids have to chase down to get the ball. Staff aren't recommending this after the park staff looked at it. The the park or the excuse me, the basketball court um is past its designated useful life. Um, and in terms of replacement, it is in currently an inaccessible location. Um, so in terms of future replacement, we don't know if there'll be future assets at that particular location in the park. So adding future amenities or future assets there um is not recommended at this time. >> Okay, makes sense. >> Early lake projects. So they requested educational signage. So this is signage around Early Lake just talking about the um you know the environmental impacts of the lake and history of the lake. Um staff do recommend that one that will be um coordinated with natural resources folks in the wershed in terms of developing those signage and then a little free library and some uh some funding for neighborhood events. Yeah, >> North River Hills submitted an application for neighborhood events um which staff recommends. >> There is one note here um regarding they they did submit a request for general communication support so like web hosting and things like that. Um staff do not re recommend this one at this time due to public purpose limitations. >> Yeah. So on the events, do we do they have a certain number of events for the $10,000 that they want to spend and what those events going to be like? >> Correct. Yep. And you'll see in the two and there's a number of neighborhoods that [snorts] requested events. Some went into greater detail than others in terms of what they would be um what they'd be submitting for reimbursement. Um, but in the neighborhood grant application, which is in your in your packet here, you'll see North River Hills did a great job with their application, um, in terms of going into great detail over, uh, what they would be using the funds for and the type of events that they would be they would be, um, they would be hosting. >> Yeah. >> Um, and just to clarify that the the 10,000 estimated cost is obviously the maximum benefit. the the neighborhoods will be submitting reimbursement or asking the staff to or asking the city uh excuse me to uh to fund those initiatives. They'd be submitting the eligible expenses. City would be keeping track of the expenses there to make sure not to exceed the 10,000 over the course of the year. And then again, as I mentioned, one of the expenses that would not be considered eligible would be general communication support, um, which would be like the web hosting fees and things like that. Um, Parkwood South, um, again, neighborhood events. And then they also requested a park bench, um, which staff have worked with in terms of finding a location for that. They did request um as part of their events um gift cards and other prizes for folks to uh attend the event. And again, due to public purpose limitations, that would not be an eligible expense. >> And then South River Hills, similar. They're requesting funding for neighborhood events. >> Yeah. >> Um and along the same lines as North River Hills, again, funds cannot be used for general communication support um related to the neighborhoods. And with that, the final thing I just have beyond um opening for questions um and council feedback on the staff recommendations is a reminder that we'll be doing a program evaluation. We'll be sharing our lessons learned, feedback from the neighborhood um and then seeking council direction on the future of the uh of the program in January. >> So that I'll stand for questions. Council members. Yeah. Council [clears throat] member Gustoson. >> Actually, I like all these programs that the the neighborhoods have come back to us with. I just wanted to say something of North River Hills over here. >> This was this sheet of paper you gave us is great. I mean, this is this is a blueprint for neighborhoods in our entire city to use to organize to get things done. So, well done. Well done. >> Okay. Anybody else? Yeah, Cara. But I mean, needless to say, like I am very thrilled by this. I'm [snorts] excited by how this turned out. Um, I was excited with how staff took an idea and developed it, and now I'm excited to see how residents are taking that and developing it. Um, neat ideas. And on some of these events, like some of them are like they want to have someone present like a history of their neighborhood, right? I mean, like things like that that really make neighborhoods into neighborhoods and get neighbors talking and like all that kind of stuff. This is incredible stuff. And I also [clears throat] heard from some other neighborhoods who wanted to watch other neighborhoods go through this first so they could figure it out. And so now they're getting their ideas for what they would like to do in [clears throat] their areas and some of them are very different ideas than even what we have have here. So um yeah, I'm I'm really excited about this. I'm really proud of our residents. um this does show that residents can come together and evaluate their neighborhood and you know see what their neighborhood needs. So very excited. Thank you. >> Any [clears throat] um I just echo what Kira said. I beyond impressed with the success of this program in its first year and um very proud of our my North River Hills neighborhood for pioneering and going first. Um we've got a lot of great leaders over there. But um my main question is if this continues on this curve >> [snorts] >> um can you just remind me what our criteria is if we've got more applications than dollars to spend. >> Yeah, that's a very good question. I think that's something that we're going to have to discuss during the program evaluation as we look at >> the future of the program and kind of how we want to put maybe some more, for lack of better words, parameters around it or at least um put a little bit more definition around it. You know, we didn't fully consider that this year because we didn't anticipate that we would have more, you know, we thought five to eight neighborhoods would be a really good success story here. We ended with five um in 2025. Um, so knowing that we had the $100,000 available, we didn't anticipate reaching that this year, but that will have to be part of, I think, the council's conversation during the program evaluation next month. >> The selection process and >> yeah, I think we'll have we'll we'll be informed after a year of and uh and going through evaluating and see what really worked and how all of that. So, I think that's part of the discussion next year. We could do like an unveiling event where we announce publicly at Ames Center. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But man, what what next problem? >> Like a game show. Okay. >> Actually, um I had not shared this yet with Greg, but I was at um I was in a meeting for America 250 because next year is the birthday of our country, 250th anniversary, America 250. And so a lot of uh our neighborhoods have for um a lot of events that you want to put together and perhaps on each of those events you can have celebration of our country but through the neighborhoods because if you're have if you're going to have several events for $10,000 I think it's a nice way for the community to come together um share a meal get to know one another and celebrate our country's birthday. So all of next year is throughout our whole country is America 250. What was really interesting and I was in the meeting and they talked about our night to unite where we have all of the the different neighborhoods around our community celebrating and coming together [clears throat] and then and so I raised my hand because it was a virtual meeting and I said I'm the mayor of Burnsville that you're talking about and we do have night to unite and that's one of the things and he said well we think that that's a really great idea for people around the country to just come together and and celebrate America 250 and uh and and share share a meal because that's what they were it's like a potluck people coming together with a potluck and I said well we already do potlucks >> overund of them 120ome through yeah well they heard about uh and that that was identified so it was interesting That's right. Hot dish. >> Yeah. >> Yes, we hot dish it. >> Huh? >> We hot dish it. >> Yeah. >> Hot dishes. >> I said, "Yeah, we do. We do potlops." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, this this project started as an idea from council member Schulz uh about how to engage our population in our budget process and it evolved over time through a a massive uh city undertaking that put together this huge organizational book and then it it ended up landing on something that I think um you know this statement uh that the city grant program empowering neighborhoods to provide necessary financial services, resources, and organizational support for residents to collaboratively plan and host events. I I felt like when this evolved to this model that the goal was really truly fostering a stronger sense of community, uh encouraging interactions across diverse groups, and ultimately uniting the entire city's resident population should through shared experiences and collective development initiatives. And I have to cite North River Hills specifically. They were all of these applications did a really good job. North River Hills, as as council member Workman pointed out, seemed to just go above and beyond their organization, um their engagement, t-shirts, getting in the parade at the Burnsville Festival. They've just like checked every box I think I could have ever thought of of how this organization of this neighborhood could could possibly flourish to and they did it uh very quickly. U and so compliments to all the leaders um former senators, residents, whoever it might be um for an an incredible job. And I do I was mentioning we we were talking earlier >> and people can see t-shirts behind me. Did you want to speak cuz you signed up? >> That would be great. I just want to say I believe this document and others should be a model for >> other neighborhoods to learn from. >> And I was really impressed when I went to the meeting. It was raining, but we our staff helped find a way so that the event can continue and and it was great. And so I a lot of kudos in staff and and our residents working together because that was amazing. So Katie, the floor is yours. >> Thank you very much. Hello madame mayor and city council members and staff. Uh my name is Katarina Gomez. I go by Kati and I am privileged to be speaking on behalf of my beloved North River Hills neighborhood organization. For many of us here, it is not our first time in front of the city council, nor will I guarantee that it will be our last time. But I want to take a moment to express our sincere thanks and gratitude to this city council, to the city staff, and the coordinators of the neighborhood organization pilot program for partnering with local communities to foster a greater sense of connection here in Burnsville. Your support and ongoing technical assistance helped us navigate the grant process. And we've seen our shared values of respect, belonging, and stewardship actualized in our community because of the creation of our neighborhood organization. My neighbors and I learned so much this year in starting up this org, and we believe that this ongoing partnership between the city and its neighborhoods will strengthen Burnsville entire neighborhood organization initiative framework. The impetus for us organizing in North River Hills is similar to how so many other communities rally together. We were concerned for the stewardship of the land we are on and the safety of our neighbors. Last year, a group of us began meeting to learn more about local zoning laws, but we quickly learned that our civic engagement can only be sustained with the trust and the respect of our neighbors and a great a greater collective understanding of how municipal decisions impact our local communities. This prompted us to collaborate with the city to create the North River Hills neighborhood organization through its neighborhood organization pilot program and apply for this $10,000 grant to sustain our work and expand our reach in the community. In addition to the postcards the city sent out to announce the creation of our organization, we created a website and launched ourselves into an old-fashioned door knocking campaign. On the doors, we met with hundreds of neighbors who are ready to come together to share the history and to tell the story of North River Hills and all of its 15 developments. We spent hours on the doors talking with neighbors. And in addition to the excitement around just having a neighborhood organization, our neighbors were so grateful to learn about how the decisions made by this city council were impacting our North River Hills neighborhood. Truly, in fostering a greater connection with each other, we are building trust not only between neighbors, but between our community and our local decision makers. In May of this year, we officially launched as a North River Hills neighborhood organization. And we're joined by over a hundred of our hundred of our neighbors on a rainy night, including Mayor Couts, Council Member Workman, and some of my favorite city staff members. [laughter] In August, we hosted a night to unite event at Tennisu Park and over 200 neighbors joined us for root beer floats ultimate frisbee and to share their vision for our community and for the neighborhood organization. And so, of course, we took part in the 2025 Fire Mustard Parade in September where we debuted our new t-shirts uh featuring a logo that was designed but by one of our very own neighbors here tonight. [laughter] Since those celebrations, our neighborhood has adopted two parks in our neighborhood. We've submitted this $10,000 community building initiative grant, and we've drafted a set of bylaws to guide our operation and ensure transparency and accountability. Our largest obstacle continues to be the IT infrastructure needed to continue contacting and convening our neighbors. We know that investing in things like park benches and trash cans may improve our neighborhood, but they cannot create or sustain a neighborhood organization. We hope the city council and the city of Burnsville recognizes the value of investing in a practical and social infrastructure that is needed to sustain the longevity of a community building initiative. Finally, like many folks who are part of my neighborhood organization, I was born and raised here in Burnsville. And I'd be remiss if I didn't emphasize how the culture of my beloved North River Hills, the people in my community are truly centered around the safety, the happiness, and the well-being of the children and the families that are growing up in our neighborhood. And we are really truly excited to continue working with the city to build a stronger, more vibrant community that is based on our shared love for Burnsville and respect for the land we live on in North River Hills. Thank you. >> Thank you. Well done. Very well done. Thank you. >> Yeah. So, members of the council, um you you have our next steps, Mike. I do. I do. So, next week, December 16th, we will have the grant application awards uh on the consent agenda and then um we'll begin uh communicating with neighborhoods in terms of the process in terms of getting uh reimbursements for those projects or getting those projects kicked off uh starting in January. [clears throat] >> Okay. >> And then January, we have the program evaluation. >> Members of the council, >> direct staff, move forward. Absolutely. Okay. We'll see it on the consent agenda for next week. >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Okay. Um the next is our city policy project and um >> you think >> Bethany our strategic initiative director you have the floor. All right. Thank you. Good evening, mayor and council. Um I am excited to talk to you about a very fun city policy project. Uh >> um what you have in front of you and what was in the work work session um agenda report. I'll talk a little bit about um just the redline versions of our suggestions for this evening. So, just to give the city council and community a little bit of a background on where this this project came from, in um July of 2023, uh there were some compliance issues that were um purchasing and compliance issues that were identified um and the executive team completed a corrective action plan through um February 2025. So from July of 23 to February 2025 to address those issues that were identified with our um processes related to purchasing and compliance. And during that project twice the the um staff brought forward different policy updates, recommendations um the city attorney and CFO deputy manager um brought those through those at that time those were um purchasing and authority related policies that required kind of immediate update through that corrective action plan. So during the August 2024 work session um city council also at that time directed staff to do a full review of the policies and procedures manual that is out there. So um that was directed in August and then we the leadership team added that project to our work plan for this year in January 2025. And so we formed a staff project team led primarily by the city clerk and the clerk's office to um start working on the project a comprehensive update and review of all city council policies. And just interestingly there are 147 policies out there on the you can find on the city council's page and um that staff uh review and look at. And so um it was a big task to start looking through all of those. Um what we did first as part of that direction from the city council in August of 2024 was really to say that we want to do a review to also consider what out there right now are truly city council policies right that describe the highest level outcomes and the city council's legislative um direction and then what out there that is maybe that have been adopted in the past are really truly administrative policies. So ones that are guiding the operational implementation of council policy and and what potentially out there are even human resources policy that really define how staff work together in our HR management function. And so our team spent a lot of time just working on what might be the criteria that would define a city council policy and administrative policy and a human resources policy so that we could truly understand and make informed recommendations for the city council's um review and consideration. Right? these are your policies and we want to make sure they reflect your legislative direction um in their use in our organization. So we talked a a lot about those types of policies. And then the other part of the project kind of looking through the policies was that our review we wanted to make sure that similar to the process with the code review task force that our [snorts] policies use more simple plain language that are just more human centered to help that be easier to apply for staff and understand for the city council and community out there as well. Um, again, we continued working on that separation of what are truly city council policies versus what what would staff recommend our administrative policies. Um, in some of the the language, how can we make sure we're identifying what's truly policy and then what's procedure and how do we make sure that's clear and then just of course making consistent structure and terminology and kind of a a simplified format to hopefully also make them easier to read just as part of that plain language review. And so doing all of that work throughout the first um six or seven months of the year, we realized that going through all 147 policies was not going to be um a an approach that would work for either staff or potentially the city council to review all of those at one time. And so we um narrowed the focus of the project and kind of extended the timeline um as as you've seen in some of our monitoring reports and things like that. So, um, what we did is we really narrowed that to say what are the policy council the city council policies that um require immediate action. So, there's maybe either a statute or um or practice that just needs to be updated in some of those those um use the word low hanging fruit, those first uh policies that need immediate action. Um and then kind of allowing a more phased approach to all of like going through the remaining what is 104 after after tonight. So um and then kind of continuing that work. So um we are staff is proposing a timeline kind of for the full review of all of those. Um tonight we're kind of proposing this batch that kind of requires a sort of the immediate action or sort of those first level policies that can um be uh reviewed and then for 26 27 and 28 um we would take uh batches for your review. I think then hopefully a more digestible approach for our our teams to write and then also for you all to review and consider um in your in your work too. So, and then each year beyond that, we'll always do an annual review. The city clerk leads that and um takes a look annually at there's some that need to be updated every year. There's um there's always that that annual review cycle that will continue on. So, what you have before you tonight and in the in the materials out out on on the website, um we're recommending seven policies for update right now. Um what you have is a redline version, so you can see it that way. We also have a like a clean final version for your review. So depending on how you prefer um to take a look that those are both available and then there um we'll um the the updates that are made that we're recommending tonight are um either just again state statute or just some practice that we wanted to update um to reflect. And then we're also recommending 17 policies that really could can be eliminated. they are outdated and they are replaced all by either city code, the employee um handbook, our HR policies or state statute. Um so we're me recommending that we eliminate those just to kind of reduce duplication and confusion and having multiple places out there that say the same thing and making sure that they're all updated at the same time. So um so again what you'll see the recommended revisions um there's three in sort of our finance area in our handling of in some of the um credit cards cash funds and then city investment policy which that one does need to be updated every year anyway. Um and then there's three in our parks and recreation area. So park use and reservations, recreation facilities and program fees [cough and clears throat] and then vending. And then finally in public works there's our streets assessment street assessments policy that um required [snorts] some updates as well. Um so we're making those uh we have those revisions proposed for you and then um I'm going to go through this. There are 17 they wouldn't there 17. You can kind of see what you'll see up here is the name of the policy and then the reason and you can kind of see um that economic development commission right is in this in city code and [snorts] the reference is there for you. Um there's a number of other ones that are listed in code. There's a number that are human resource really covered by human resource policy, you know, the uh labor relations and um personal protective equipment and and some things like that. Um, and then again there's a couple covered by statute. So like no smoking policy is covered by the Clean Indoor Air Act. So you can kind of see those um those 17 and just the reasoning for our recommendation to pull them out and and eliminate them from your policy manual. So our our process that we'll go through each year is that our team will review kind of the based on again that earliest council direction on this is we'll review policy category the need any updates that would be in in the policy um and draft those consistent with our standards. We'd obviously re review them um on our side by with leadership and and legal review and then I bring that to you for a work session to for your review and then to a council meeting to make the kind of final adoptions after um we get the direction in a work session. So that's our plan in terms of the process for the next few years moving forward through the project. Um and so certainly here to answer any questions you'd have on the policies before you for recommendation. Um and then if depending on your direction tonight, we'd put um the revision on the December 16th meeting and then um continue that review um as you saw on the schedule. >> Any questions, [snorts] comments for Bethany? >> Yeah, >> just that lot of modernization. So this is a a lot of uh dry work, but very good to get a lot of these modernized and all these that have you're recommending that we delete. Makes sense. Kind of kind of makes you wonder what the rest of the policies look like. There's a few others that we might discuss. >> One year at a time. >> Yeah. One year at a time, right? [laughter] >> Yes. Thank you. Yeah. >> Council member D. I >> I think the the timeline's very reasonable. Having spent over two years on titles one through nine for our city [laughter] ordinances. >> You're taking on a lot here and it's it's going to take us time. Yeah, >> I think the timeline is is well thought out. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. >> Madam Mayor, members of the council to the point and not to make too much light of it to council member Keely's point and to council member Gustoson's point uh very much as Bethany has talked about, we've identified the need uh for more time on this project and it's an important one coming out of our corrective action plan and our corrective action project uh that started back in 2023. So, we take the work very seriously. I I I will say back to Council Member Keely's point, uh, we probably will find a repeat of some of maybe the reaction that you have tonight. And I I do think that there there will be other policies that might be more challenging or might take more discussion amongst the council. And that's one of the important reasons from a staff perspective uh that we wanted to piece this out into a phased approach that that gave you more time to consider. And the one deviation we made from the code review task force process was really to make sure that we had these work session discussions because we do anticipate that there's there's likely going to be the need for council dialogue and debate and direction to to staff uh as we really get into the work of the council's legislative policies which just aren't addressed in this batch. So uh there'll be more work to come and and we'll communicate along the way. Yeah, I like the what you've done simply because it now puts the boundaries between what is operational policies. You've identified a lot of that with regard to um whether it's found in code or in human resource. And then there is a big difference between what is operational and what is legislative. So that cleans it all up and that's great work. I also like the thoughtful and u way that you're going through all of this to your point um uh city manager Lindberg is that you know there may be some policies that we have discussions but boy a lot of this makes sense when I went through it it puts it in the right place so uh you're going to have the first batch then before us uh on consent agenda >> for um approval of the first what is it? Seven. >> So it's 24. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then the deletions. Yeah. >> So seven to Yeah. 7 to >> that that you're um proposing changes and all of that. And then the ones that you're deleting. >> So that will be uh next week on the consent agenda. Okay. Anything else? >> All right. Thank you so much. >> Appreciate a lot. Okay. And the next uh item is legal update and uh our uh city attorney Jared Shepard is presenting. Jared, the floor is yours. >> All right. Good evening, mayor, members of the council. I'm here for the quarterly legal update. Um tonight, we're going to talk about the open meeting law. The council was pulled about some uh issues that they were interested in hearing from me about. Open meeting law showed up on some of those answers. This is, you know, more of a refresher than an update, but of course the open media law is constantly changing. As we talked about before, um the data practices office as well as the courts are um sources of of law and guidance on the open meeting law and those uh decisions and guidance are happening all the time and and and making some changes to some of the things that that need to guide our our behavior. Um, but this is going to hopefully just be sort of a general overview with nuance here and there. So, what public bodies are subject to the open meeting law. Um, in front of you, you have a list, but the ones that really matter to us are the governing bodies of statutory cities and committees, subcommittees, boards, departments, commissions [clears throat] of the public body. Um, so as you know, we have we have committees, we have commissions. uh as a code review task force uh council member Gustin mentioned that we had um that was a a committee subject to the open meeting law. We had open meetings when we had those discussions. Um not subject to the open meeting law is the state legislature and the judiciary. Um [laughter] >> I'm shocked. >> Just >> we made rules. >> We don't have to abide by them. Thank you. >> Rules for thee but not for me. [laughter] um you know case law said that the common understanding public body the courts interpret that to be the broadest possible expression. So they're always going to interpret uh public body to be broad when you perform a function for the benefit of the public. Um again just you know for everyone's benefit the the issues of committee subcommittees of boards that's an often litigated uh thing in terms of whether or not some committee is sort of duly consecrated by the the city council or the public body or they're ad hoc and and there's some litigation that occurs uh with respect to that. So the basic principle of the law and I I said it on this first slide but just for the members of the public it's chapter 13D is the open meeting law. Um all meetings must be open to the public uh unless a statute allows or requires closure. We'll talk a little bit about the the uh uh minimal but the scenarios in which you can close a meeting. Um to be open the meeting must be noticed. Votes must be documented and a copy of materials must be available in the room for members of the public. Uh remote participation is allowed and must comply with statutory requirements. We will talk about those a little bit later. That's an area where as the council is aware. Um there have been legislative changes over the last few years to respond to uh both the pandemic and then just generally the everchanging nature of our society and the the ease in which we can actually open up participation if somehow sometimes we're allowed to participate remotely. >> So what is a meeting under the open meeting law? So this is there's no statutory definition in the open meeting law. It's a judicially defined um is a gathering of a quorum of members of a public body at which the members discuss, decide or receive information as a group on issues relating to the official business of the body. Sometimes I just refer to that as city business. So this doesn't include chance or social gatherings. So, um, if you're at a restaurant in Burnsville and somehow, uh, three members of the city council find themselves there, um, that doesn't suddenly constitute a meeting of the city council. Um, something to be aware of, and this is one of the sort of ever evolving um, parts of the open meeting law, email or telephone calls that involve a quorum can be an issue. Um, so we have to be mindful of that. Um and that kind of dovetales with the concept of serial meetings and we will talk about that a little bit uh later in the slideshow here. Uh serial meetings for the purposes of evading public discussion can be an open meeting law violation. Um social media is not a violation. There's actually been a a statuto update in the last several years if the exchanges are with all members of the public. You still have to be mindful of that. And what I would say is there hasn't been a lot of interpretation the case law uh whether from from the courts or whether from um the data practices office yet on that issue and I still think that there there will end up being some fleshing out of kind of what that means. Um so types of meetings. Um so we have kind of three types of meetings. regular meetings. Um, this is when you're you're you've adopted a regular meeting schedule that's on file at city hall. Um, in Burnsville, our our regular city council meetings and our work sessions are all kind of set out beforehand and those are all regular meetings. Um, so to the concept of you have a regular meeting, you can, you know, add something to the agenda um at the time of that meeting. Special meetings are different. So these are ad hoc meetings that we have. Um this also occurs when we move a meeting from a regular meeting schedule. Um when you have a special meeting, you must notice um that at least 3 days before the meeting and you must identify the purpose of the meeting. Um you can have a big agenda for that meeting, but you must the notice must be clear that here's the topics we're going to talk about and you can't talk about topics that aren't listed in that notice. Um emergency meetings happen very very rarely. Um, and these are uh a special meeting, but in the circumstances of the public body require immediate consideration without that special meeting notice to the public. You're still supposed to make a good faith effort uh to uh let the news media aware that we're going to have an emergency meeting. Um but it it's all premised on the idea that there's something very quick. There's an emergency in the city that we have to to take care of right away. um kind of dovetailing with the regular or the meetings is just recess or continued meetings as the council know if a new meeting and time and place can be established during the meeting if you recess the meeting and say hey we're going to meet again on Tuesday at this time um you don't have to have any further notice of that meeting although obviously it's extra credit if you do but uh in terms of the opening meeting law if you just make make that clear uh at the meeting that you're having and the motion's clear what what you're recessing to date and time, you're good. >> Can extra credits be applied to when we screw up. [laughter] >> It's you get extra credit system. >> Okay. >> It's not a point system, unfortunately. [laughter] >> So, if if a meeting goes before the judge, somebody you say, "Oh, >> all the times we didn't screw up." [laughter] >> That's a balancing. No. Um closed meetings of the council is where we've we've had uh closed meetings uh a couple times a year. Um the notice requirements apply to the closed meetings. So um you can do closed meetings during the regular meetings, which is kind of something we've we've done lately. Um or you can have them as a special meeting. Um closed meeting is kind of a misnomer. It's what we refer to it as, but it's really a closed agenda item. You're not closing the entire meeting. you're you're you're meeting a uh there's a certain issue that meets the statutory requirements for closed meeting. So, you're closing the agenda item for that. Um there's specific requirements on statute for how we do that. You must state the grounds for closing the meeting and the subject matter to be discussed. The easiest way to do this is the the grounds being the statutory citation. So, if it's attorney client privilege, there's a specific statutory citation for that. Um and then the reason which is so let's say it's attorney client privilege. What litigation are we talking about? And you state that on the record. Um the statement must be given by the member a member of the public body which is why typically the mayor kind of reads those magic words and then we take a motion to close the session. There have been uh cases where the uh legal council said all those magic words and it has been found to be a violation of the open meeting law. Oh, >> it's kind of silly. >> Yeah, I agree. [laughter] >> As long as you're giving notice to the public what we're doing and why, >> but that's that's that's why I'm a stickler for the magic words and how we do it because there there's some technical things that happen with the open meeting law and how it's interpreted that >> um less pragmatic and but it is what it is. So, um, >> can you site examples of types of closed meeting laws that would be allowed other than the law legal one that you just cited? Is what are the other ones? >> You've you've anticipated the next slide. Council member Keely, >> that's kind of small font. That's a long way. >> It is. So, I will I will read them uh into the record here. >> I do see a large drop down screen and a projector. So, when you got small font, maybe we can go to the bigger screen. So there are um scenarios where we must close the meeting. So preliminary consideration of allegations are are charges against an in individual subject to a public body's authority. So that's that's an employment issue for statutory plan A cities that comes up more often for the city council. Obviously uh in Burnsville statutory plan B city, the city manager is subject to your authority. Um but all other personal city decisions are under the city manager. So Greg is the only one that's going to come up for in this context. Um discussion of specified types of data. So this is where we get the interaction of the uh the data practices act in the open meeting law. Um I if we're going to discuss the identity of victims of certain crimes act active criminal investigation data uh internal affairs data all of that would be we must close the meeting to discuss that uh data. There are other data that are that is private under the open meeting law or confidential under the open meeting law that don't require closure. I mean there's a whole host of things that are not uh that are not public that you can discuss in a meeting, a public meeting and it still retains its data classification. So we're allowed to discuss it. It's still technically private data. You discuss it for the purposes of the meeting and then the classification doesn't change if that makes sense. But there's obviously some some particular particular things we got to uh be more mindful of. Um and then may close labor negotiation strategy. Obviously there's a great reason why we want to close a meeting for labor negotiation strategy. Um again performance evaluation of a person subject to authority. Um again that's may close because the um individual that's subject to the evaluation can ask that their evaluation be public. Um that's a right they retain. attorney client privilege, um, sale or purchase of real or personal property, as we're aware of, and security briefings and reports, as we're also aware of. Um, as as I think the council knows, all of these have to be recorded, and there's there's some nuances there in terms of how long the recording has to be kept and things like that. Uh, except for the attorney client privilege, um, that meeting doesn't have to be recorded. >> We've had a lot of scenarios of the may close and we've chosen to close them all. that may is kind of a funible word. I mean, could we in any of those cases choose to not close it? >> Yes. I mean, you could choose not to you could choose to have a discussion about your position on a certain, you know, CBA, collective bargaining agreement, uh, in the public. But I don't know necessarily why you would. Um uh obviously with with labor negotiations a lot of that stuff kind of happens >> it happens before they're really at our discretion where the first the three >> that must we don't have a choice but the other five >> it's it's at our >> it's it's at your discretion >> discretion generally speaking they're all closed. >> Yeah. And there could be so for example on um attorney client privilege you know uh there there's still some nuance there. You can't um you can't close it just for any discussion. Obviously, I give a lot of uh advice at the DEIS that is not privileged, you know, it's it's public advice. Um it has to be for for for pending litigation or uh so litigation that's currently active or litigation that's sort of imminent. Um, and you have to describe the reason for that with respect to the attorney client privilege to make sure that it's a you have whether it's a confidential settlement discussion or or or confidential legal strategy. But there are times when you might be uh discussing a litigation where you don't really have a confidential need, right? Maybe it's just an update uh to the council about, hey, we >> had a hearing on this issue uh last Wednesday and it's been taken under advice. Yeah. Or they continued it. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um, so there there are times where you may get that update that doesn't satisfy the >> the attorney [clears throat] client privilege. >> Jared, to to council member Keely's question, could you could you just quickly go through the five May close criteria, relate them to a statutory plan B, council manager form of government, and and why from a staff recommendation perspective or or why in our uh from our statutory position, we might make the decisions that we would make in each of those five. Yeah, because I was going to say there is operations >> and there is legislative >> and a plan B labor negotiations are within operations not legislative. >> That that's that's correct. By and large that's correct. Same thing with performance evaluation as we talked about earlier other than the city manager. >> City manager and he has the right to say yes or no. >> Yes, that that's absolutely correct. >> Um and then attorney client privilege. we talked about and then sale or purchase of real or personal property which we've had beating closures for that when we're talking about uh the sale of city property. Um all of that you know is that that one I think makes sense to a lot of people when you're trying to decide well how we're going to counter offer what we're going to do. We don't want to uh tip our hand right in a public meeting. Uh and then obviously security briefings that that is both for statutory plan A and plan B um to make sure that um we we can have you know very frank conversations about needs um and assessments and you know how to handle security at the city council. >> Greg, did that cover everything? >> Thank you very much. I think it was helpful just context both for the council and for the community. >> Yeah. Um this is also I apologize small swamp. Um you know there there's a recent statutory uh change that allows uh council members to appear remotely. Um and this kind of precedes um years where prior to the pandemic um you um there was this very what I would say [gasps] again another anacronistic thing. So, you could appear remotely if you were in a hotel in Bangkok as long as you were in the lobby of that hotel, >> but you couldn't appear remotely if you were sick with the flu >> in your living room. >> In your bedroom. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's didn't make a lot of sense, but that was the rule. >> Yeah. >> Um >> you can't if you're homesick. >> No, not not previously. Now you can. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. So, this is >> This is pre precoid. Precoid that was kind of the state of the law. There were some scenarios or if you were in the armed forces and things there was a few scenarios by which you could do it. Uh the one that applied most to most council members was this idea of if I'm on vacation somewhere I can appear remotely. I just have to be in a lobby of a hotel where no one can access me because everyone is back in Birdsville. Um [snorts] now um so then there was a pandemic and there was some changes that related to uh uh pandemic scenarios where which we can all appear remotely if there is an [clears throat] emergency uh declared that still exists in the open meeting law. Um we obviously most communities in in Minnesota utilize that during the pandemic. Um and then after the pandemic, uh there was some tweaks to that and then it took about another year or so before the legislature realized we should all be allowed to appear remotely um under certain scenarios because it it just it just seems to make sense. It's the world we're living in. uh it I I think fosters um you know public participation by making sure that all all members of the public body can really be attend at most meetings and I also think it also helps cities continue to to have zoom and virtual meetings which is again it's not just for members of the public body but members of the public uh and many cities and most cities I think have continued with virtual meetings in some component obviously Burnsville I think has a real robust best virtual meeting access. Um we have great technology here. So um but so by and large the general rules are um everyone must be able to hear each other. We must do roll call votes. Uh one member must be physically present at the meeting space. Um, >> can you make sure you can all hear there must be uh a quorum and um notice is required. So, we put that on, you know, I in an ideal situation uh we have notice uh in advance so we can put that on the agenda. So, council member Keley is not going to be at this meeting. Um, but we also just have general uh pronouncements that allow us to to pivot as necessary because uh you know it shouldn't be in a scenario again if you have if you're sick, you got a cold, stay away from the public, but you can still participate and members of the public can still hear you and see you and it works out. So this is probably the the biggest and I think one of the most important changes at a long while in the open meeting. >> Are there any exceptions to that? because I believe the transportation advisory board branch of the Met Council cannot because they're dealing with voting on federal funding and they're saying that that is >> the reason that they can't participate in >> unless there's a declared emergency. That's the only way that they could be virtual which they were but then after emergency order was done >> they we had to come back together in person and they are not able to take advantage of the new law. I don't know if that if that prohibition lies in some other statutory requirement. >> It's it's not in the open meeting law that I'm aware of. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then and and one of the things is that the votes are rollled. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's correct. >> So you just stated that the mayor could be here to run the meeting and the four of us could all be in Hawaii. >> Yeah. >> Um and not all at the same resort, but we could be [laughter] >> You could Yeah. One could be in Hawaii, the other in Mexico. >> You can be in Thailand. >> Yeah. >> And we don't have to be in the lobby. We could actually be by the pool. >> Yeah. >> With our with our green screens behind >> don't have to be don't have >> clearly joking. We're always here, but it's nice if we're if there's an important meeting and we're out of town. >> Yeah. >> And we're able to attend, we have the ability to >> Well, and and what I would say, I mean, I I again I I really do think our technology is great. at at Burnsville it and then whenever people are have appeared remotely council members you can hear them in the chambers really clearly. Um when I have have appeared remotely from time to time from my house I can hear and I can participate really really easily. um other other cities don't necessarily have the the system that we have frankly and and it's so it's it's nice that we can have such a a clear conversation even though we have remote participation. >> I think I don't know if we've made some upgrades recently but for for the longest time we would get texts from citizens saying I can barely hear yeah >> this person or that person. >> Did we upgrade our mics or something and and the audio system? And when we get to the new space, I think >> well then it'll be even better, right? Just like being there. >> Madame Mayor, council member Keely council. Uh the short answer is we have really great staff who run our production function. We've actually not spent any money in this room. Well, I shouldn't say any. We've spent very minimal money in this room to try to address some of those issues ahead of the police city hall project. So short answer is no. We haven't made uh investments. We just have really smart people who >> care about their jobs and are back there right now uh making sure that we we sound as good as we possibly can. Uh [clears throat] the mayor's absolutely correct and council, you understand this that um with the police city hall project, we've been very focused on making sure that technology works both in the room. We've had some struggles here with people being able to hear or even accessibility issues that that we will hearing loops and uh those types of important investments that will be in the room much less broadcast capabilities that will be improved. Um one of the things most important is uh not not having a bunch of open mics. We sometimes struggle with feedback both in the live broadcast or in the room. Uh so addressing those types of things and again we have a a really good group of communications production staff who are who are watching that right now that manage it in the meantime. >> They are they are really good. >> Really really good. When you see them in action out in the field you know that they're they're they're some of the best to be snapped up by TV stations but they stay >> working here. >> Yeah. Council member even came from a TV station. Uh yes many of them do. uh you know you see council member Healey you know that >> live and in person uh from broadcasted or or recording of of festival events um it was in the truck for just a short period of time during one of the concerts this year and and to watch the video switching and production and camera calling and camera operators out there it's um it's a pretty impressive operation and and they do it in a um in a very efficient way too. So uh lots to be good lots to be proud of in our staff and that group. All right, I'll try to bring it home here with a few more slides. So, we mentioned earlier the concept of serial meetings. This this started with a a court case called Moleberg. Um, in Moberg, it started with the discussion of again and I I said this kind of at the outset, the gatherings of a quorum, members of the governing body. Um, >> so this was a school district. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. So the court said the meetings are are when we have a quorum of the members of a governing body who uh gather together discuss decide receive information uh as a group on issues relating to the official business of that governing body. Then it went on to say serial meetings in groups of less than a quorum for the purposes of avoiding public hearings or fashioning agreement on an issue may be found may also be found to be a violation of the statute depending on the facts of the individual case. So it's not a bright line rule. Um but it is enough >> examples so the public understands the legal ease you just >> yeah next slide I'm going to give some examples from court cases where how the court has come down. >> Okay. >> Um but the idea is if you have um council member A calls council member B. They discuss how they're going to vote on an issue calls council member B calls C. discuss how A and B are going to vote on an issue. You got three out of a five member body and you have a quorum for the purposes of what was would be called a serial meeting. Um because you're gathering to um figuring out how you're going to vote, receive information on what that vote is from the other council members. Um the tension here is public officials have a duty to persuade each other and uh but that persuasion becomes improper when designed to avoid public discussion altogether uh to forge a majority in advance of a public hearing or a public meeting on an issue or to hide any improper influence such as personal or pecurity interests of uh a public official. So how what does this mean in practice? So here's a couple cases. uh Mano free press versus city of North Mano. There was an interview process that involved oneonone interviews of city administrator candidates by each council member and that was found was not designed to avoid a public meeting. Theo versus Independent School District number 803. A lack of discussion by board was insufficient evidence to prove that the board members had met serially uh before the meeting where a contract was uh reviewed not I think it's supposed to say was not renewed. Um so sorry about that but yeah so the idea of hey just because we we came together uh the issue was presented we had a quick vote on it does not necessarily mean that you had a a meeting outside. that it was insufficient enough evidence to prove that. Um, again, as I talked about before, advisory opinion 617, these are the data practices office, which is an administrative office of the state who advises on open meeting law questions. It says using staff to serely pull council members about a council hiring decision would violate uh the open meeting law, but it wasn't possible to determine that had occurred in in the case that was in front of them. So what are the penalties for violating the open meeting law and when is a public body versus individual members financially responsible? Any person may bring an action alleging a violation of the open meeting law. Uh the suit may be brought against the public body or individual members. Um and you'll find the cases are kind of run the gamut between suing the public body like the school district are suing uh the individual council members like in the Victoria open meeting law case that we've discussed before. Uh statute of limitations is two years. Um the remedies I mean typically you're these suits are brought to to bring kind of public awareness but they're also um have a fine component a civil penalty up to $300 for each intentional violation. payable by an individual member. Um there is a forfeite of office provision. You must have three separate adjudications of unrelated intentional violations. Now, this has been litigated uh in the Victoria case and the issue was um trying to bring three separate open law cases kind of evolving out of the same uh universe of facts, but just filing a suit here with one plaintiff and a suit here with second plaintiff and a suit here with third plaintiff. Um, but the court said, "No, the way it's written is that you have to have a lawsuit, a judgment, a lawsuit, a judgment, a lawsuit, and a judgment." Um, so you can't game that out. Um, so frankly, you know, one could argue that it's it's unlikely to ever occur that someone would uh have a court find them twice liable for a violation of the open mean law and frankly still get elected in in order to have [snorts] a court find a third violation. Um, but that's that's what it is. Um costs and attorneys fees may be awarded up to 13,000 for each plaintiff. Uh public body may but is not required to pay on behalf of members. Um the civil penalty um it is they're not allowed to pay that. Um but they can pay the cost [clears throat] and the attorney's fees. Um court must find to get these civil penalties must find uh intent to violate the chapter. Um, I I would say that's still somewhat open to debate um in the sense that the the court in the Victoria case, which was a a district court on this point, found that um sort of just doing the act was the intent to violate the chapter um or the the statute. In other words, if you intended to to close the meeting and you closed the meeting wrong, you intentionally violated the law. Um there's not really definitive on that. There was a previous version of the open meeting law that had intent built in um or not built in and now it is. So it's it's a little bit uh confusing, but I think you should just know that I think the courts are generally going to presume that you have knowledge of the open meeting law and its requirements. So, one of the things I just wanted to talk about briefly too is what rights do members of the public have to participate in a public meeting uh as it relates to the open meeting law because I think that most people think well the open meeting law that has to do with public participation but in fact it doesn't um it does not require public bodies to take public comment um it only ensures the public has a right to attend meetings. Now there are other uh statutory requirements for public comments and public hearings. Um but there's nothing in the open meeting law that requires uh public comment or public participation. Um if a public body provides the opportunity for public comment as we do um the the real regulation there is just the first amendment. You're establishing a limited form limited public form and so you have to kind of uh establish rules and have those rules be even-handed. So, you may limit speech by setting time limits, but you need to apply that even-handedly. Um, you may eject disrupted speakers, but there must be some real disruption of the meeting, and that's kind of a high bar. Um, but almost all cities allow public comment and public participation. Um, but it it it's really not an open me law thing while you think it probably you would probably think it would be, right? Um, so so that's it. Um, thanks for the time to to talk about this. Do you have any questions for me? >> Any questions for Jared? >> I have a duty to try and influence you, Dan. >> Well, can I do that to you? >> I saw that in the presentation. >> Okay, any questions? Thank you, Jared. I think it's always good for us to to be refreshed on all of these legal matters and it's always good for our residents and those who are listening to understand that >> we have been made aware of some things uh because sometimes people don't know. So, I'm really appreciative that we have these quarterly legal updates, not just for our benefit, but for the benefit of our residents who really need to know that we have a good understanding of what the law is. >> So, thank you. >> Thank you, mayor. Appreciate it. >> Okay. The next item then is um >> uh the council uh inter agency appointments. So, Council members Michelle. >> Um, good evening, Madame Mayor and City Council. I have handed out u just for ease, I I put this together a list of all of the >> Give me one. >> Yep. Oh. Oh, here. This one's yours. Sorry. >> I put together a list of all of uh the appointments that each member is currently on. And Yep. Sorry. Um and so um at this time the council has directed staff to bring this to the December work session for review for the next cycle for 2026. And um does the council have any interest in changing any of the appointments? >> I'll trade with anyone. I don't care. >> I'm always open to trades. So, if anyone is like looking at mine and they're like, "Gosh dang, I wish I could be on Black Dog." Today is your lucky day. Yeah. [laughter] >> Well, >> I like what I'm doing. >> Do you like Do you want to keep yours or do you want to trade something out? >> Um, well, most of mine are transportation, which is a highly sort of specialized area that requires a long time on the training curve. So, I think I probably should stay put there. Um and then the AIM center is um minimal. Um Burnsville Public Policy Committee is just once a month, so I'm I'm good with what I have. >> Okay. And Cara, >> I'll trade anything. I don't care. >> Okay. Is 911 still meeting in mornings? >> Yes. >> Mhm. >> Yes. It's still a >> You can't do that. >> Morning meeting. >> If they ever decide to change that, let me know. is black. >> Probably hell will free. >> What about black dot? They might meet in the evening. >> Do when do they meet next? I haven't been on in a long time. >> It's third or fourth Wednesday of the month at >> Yeah. And it's in the evening. >> You're doing a good job. >> It's You're going to keep yours, Vince. >> I'm good if everybody else is fine with mine. >> Yeah. Are you going to keep yours? >> I'm good. >> Okay. Everybody's keeping theirs. >> Okay. council will bring that back to you for adoption at a future meeting. I'm totally blanking as to when. I'm sure Michelle knows. >> This will come back on the organizational meeting organizational meeting the January meeting. >> The first meeting of January. >> I will Dakota 911. >> What time do >> uh in fact I think they meet this Thursday usually at 8 a.m. [panting] >> It's not here. You'll get you'll get the look of >> well in five or six years I might be able to [laughter] >> go whatever >> when [snorts] everybody's on the bus and I'm not doing shuttle service. [laughter] >> I love the way she gives you the look >> the look >> and she knows she has you right around in her little finger. Yeah. >> Okay. Uh the next uh item is round table and Michelle. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor and City Council. We are seeking to schedule the annual offsite uh and get that calendar set for next year. Um we've got some potential dates that were listed in your background. I'd like to know if we can get a consensus on a date. No. On the 21st or 22nd, >> January. [clears throat] >> I'm good on all the dates. >> Okay. >> I have a check-in on the 21st. >> They can cancel that. >> Oh, that can always be moved. >> We certainly, Madam, members of the council, we can certainly >> Yeah. >> reschedule those. of the >> good on all the February days. >> Uh, of the remaining dates, do we have a preference? >> So, m members of the council Michelle's Yeah. To Michelle's question, it's looks like Wednesday, February 4th, Friday, February 6th, or Monday, February 9th. >> Yeah. And it'll it's great if uh these are dates that uh all leadership members can attend because this is about all of us together looking to the future and um the earlier we do it the better it is uh for me to begin the work of the state of the city looking to the future. Madam Mayor, members of the council, we have done I have done everything that I possibly can and the team has done everything that we possibly can to make sure that staff can attend these dates. I think right now it's looking good. Um, >> as you can imagine, wrangling 13 people is >> complicated. >> Yeah. Is February uh 4th a good date for everybody then? >> No. Friday the 6th or Monday the 9th are the only two that work for me and I would prefer Friday. So let me ask is February 6th then okay for everybody okay >> good [clears throat] >> okay February 6th then that also helps Mike and me right Mike >> that's right there may y >> okay >> okay so we have it >> are you good there >> thank you >> okay >> um we'll go to reports Vince I have nothing to report. >> I don't have any meetings till January. >> Yeah, Cara, >> I have Dakota 911 Thursday and our big thing is we are um reviewing the executive director and she is absolutely amazing. Like she is she's truly excellent. Um, so Burnsville will be giving her high marks. >> Okay, good. >> Staff would echo that as well. >> Yeah. >> Two things MVTA related. Um, Luther, our executive director, and myself were at Representative Craig's office this week to receive a $10.7 million jumbo check um for some grants uh that we have u that we got awarded. And I got a chance to have a couple minutes with uh Representative Craig. I have not been I had not been previously to her Egan office. It's a really nice office. >> Yeah. Because they moved to Egan. >> Yes. >> From here. >> Unfortunately, they left Burnsville. So, >> they didn't have enough room. >> Lure her back somehow. >> Yeah. Uh and then just uh there's there's a forthcoming letter that will have my signature and Luther's on it that talks about the uh u executive director compensation going back through the last year and a half where we had a uh a comp study guide us into a direction that led to a salary that we found u uh unacceptable after doing some of our own uh compensation study work. So, we called the comp study guy uh person uh back in for three meetings um and eventually fleshed out and we've uh readjusted uh Luther's compensation to be in line with uh the region. And so, we're notifying all city and county managers and all city and county elected uh in the seven cities that uh we we serve along with the uh state, house, and senate members that cover the seven cities at MVT. uh services. So, cleaning up a bit of a mess as I end my tenure uh an a mess that I adopted by the way uh as the chair of the uh MVTA board of directors for the last two years which will end in January when Jay Whiting uh city council member from Chakapi will be taking over the gabble. >> Okay. Um, I have nothing to report. I was uh going to attend the MLC board meeting on Wednesday. However, there was a lot of stuff that was going on that um didn't allow me to attend the uh board meeting, but uh they sent the agenda and then uh the minutes. And so it was about looking at legislative agenda and so forth. So there wasn't much. So with that, >> Greg and staff, is there anything? >> Madame Mayor, members of the council, I don't have anything to report other than to recognize our public works snow removal crews. I think it's only uh appropriate tonight. We have about 3 ines of snow on the ground right now. I'm hearing from our public works director that there are maybe a couple of hours where we won't have much precipitation and then a bunch more expected or some more expected tonight and then clippers basically all week long. Um uh we have a great group of public works staff, not only our streets team but teams from across public works who get called in for these events and uh take care of us keeping uh the roads clear. So want to recognize their important work and they will be out. They have been out. They're going to return for a little bit of rest this evening and they'll be back out at about 3:00 am. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, thank you to the public works crew for keeping our roads clear. >> My neighborhood goes clear coming over here. >> Yeah. I can And I saw that u Mark uh left a little early. He had >> I think he's going to get to >> Yeah, I think he's going to get to it. So, >> yeah. Get to the maintenance center. >> Okay. If there's nothing else to come before us, we stand adjourned by acclamation. Thank you everyone.