good evening ladies and gentlemen it is now 5:30 and I will call this regular meeting of the Burnsville city council to order it is our tradition to stand for a moment of silence followed by the Pledge of Allegiance and we invite you to join us I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all members of the public are welcome to attend in person they may also choose to watch this meeting at Burnsville mn.gov meetings or Comcast channel 16 or 859 the public can also participate through Zoom by joining us at zoom. usjoin more information is available on our meeting's web page and in the Council agenda packet the next item on the agenda is uh announcements and our announcements have to do with all of our upcoming meetings regular Council meetings are scheduled for Tuesday January 7th at 5:30 p.m. and Tuesday January 21st at 5:30 p.m. we have a work session that's scheduled for Tuesday January 14th at 5:30 p.m. the next item on the agenda is Citizens comments this is the opportunity for anyone that would like to address the Council on an item that is not on the printed agenda and not in application form that will be coming before us at a future date um is there anyone who wishes to speak to the council I believe uh I have two people who have uh signed in to speak uh Mrs Andrea grini and uh Mrs Susan Ben biset uh would you like to come to the podium please Andrea or yes yes and give us your name and address for the record I'm sorry give us your name and address for the record yes Susan Binet uh 141 141 and that's Frontier Lane yes okay so um I'm part of the neighborhood that's I live on Ellie magnet Lake I'm directly across from the site that is being considered for pickle ball and so um I'm not on a council or have statistics or anything I just have concerns and that's what I'd just like to just address really quickly um I mentioned some of them last week and I just want to you know go over number one um our lake is very uh it's it is a really unique spot in Burnsville and just the way it's physically laid out we have um at least one Eagle nesting on the lake and um we have not got loons now there were loons at one point but they they didn't come back um and so um I am very concerned about the ecosystem of our of our neighborhood I don't know um I know that just the sound and the light would discourage most animals from you know making that part of their habitat that's that's very disturbing and um I don't have any statistics on the fact that there's a lot of Hardscape up on um the area where the the um ball fields are but I know that um from from hearing from the group that it seems that that runoff um would be happening right in our Lake and I just I just know that people are aware that Ali magnet is um on a very um it's it's it's a a not a a really well um Lake it's it's pretty sick with a lot of phosphorous I know we are trying Alum but um there's there's a lot of weeds in the lake and we're doing I I moved here four years ago I I built a rain Garden um we we pick in vase of weeds we're very involved in the lake itself and my husband has picked Buck Horn um and I'm concerned um because I I guess I can't really understand why burn city of Burnsville after they're you know saying yes you're you know you we need to get the lake healthier I'm I'm just wondering how it would ever be that a pickle ball court would be considered because it's such a a front to the whole system on next to the lake um and I guess I I feel like more studies should be done um as to what another good place in Burnsville would be cuz pickle ball is important it's a lot of fun people love it but um I think there's too many environmental problems and I am concerned that we're too far down the road now um and that everybody is stuck on having this pickle ball at um at the park and I would I guess I would like to know um you know how likely it is I don't hear your what the agenda is as far as um other sites if other sites are going to be looked at and if they if so are they on uh the schedule and can we know where those other sites are okay thank you so much for coming in and sharing your thoughts with us yeah okay Andrew gini good evening good evening hello everyone it's good to see you all I also am at Alam magnet as you probably well know uh and want to share some things that maybe haven't been shared quite as much as they we should have shared them we are as many people have said in our group not at all against pickle ball courts I've played pickle ball we play it at my cabin love it it's all good but we have a natural resource that the city has called a priority resource for priority restoration and that resource is a resource unit in fact it's not only a lake it's also the park both of them are listed in multiple years of City plans for priority restoration not for mitigation restoration to be clear I understand you guys have a lot on your plate you may not be looking back at all your plans like I've been doing you might not want me looking back at those not that they aren't Earnest but there's a lot of detail in those that is absolutely counterintuitive to putting a pickle ball court at Lake Alam magnet Park that particular area has been named by the project for uh Land Trust at least twice as one of burnsville's five top heat Islands surrounding and enveloping the exact spot where you're talking about putting pickle ball a certain number of people can play pickle ball and like to play Pickleball and will play Pickleball a certain other number of people like parks and like to hike and then there's other certain number of people in any City that don't really do either they don't go to parks at all we are as a city I would say violating our duty to those citizens more than pickle ball players or even maybe somebody like myself if we install a pickle ball court there because a pickle ball court can improve the health of a few people that play it for sure so can a lot of other things um walking in and parks are we have we have all kinds of research that shows that it's very good for health for mental health for for physical health for all kinds of things what isn't as well advertised but is in City documents is the fact that when you have healthy natural resources you have a healthy city period those people can be sitting on their couches eating Doritos and they're going to benefit from restoring Lake Alam magnet and Alam magnet Park not by putting a pickle ball court in there spending more than a million at least 1.3 and I would argue probably a fair amount more because that 1.3 cost for pick a ball includes only development construction or design I suppose and development construction and a few years of Maintenance it does not include any mitigation costs we have no idea what those will cost so I'm guessing we're closer to 2 million than 1 million for that pickleball courted Lake Alam magnet now let's talk about how much we spend on restoring the native uh the natural resources at Lake Alam magnet does any of you have a clue I mean I hope you know better than I do do you know how we fund it yes we do I figured you would it's I'm sorry I can't ask questions that's right um it's funded um if we do restoration of Natural Resources those are funded through our water um our uh water bills basically right and a whole lot of Grants what I'm trying to say is if you first well if you stack up the pickle ball or facilities uh budget which is really unfair to the Natural Resources budget it's astonishingly uh different again that's probably not totally fair but there is a reality that we as Citizens and and and the city fund our Parks through our own Investments or tax taxes rather and the city's Investments on our behalf in those Parks we do not fund so much of our work on natural resources most of it is done and you can correct me because this part I don't have the exact numbers but I'm pretty positive most of it is done with grants and those grants are 50 $330,000 they're not $2 million what are we investing in if we ignore years and years and years of commitments by all you in effect to creating to restoring that natural resource this is the unfinished business that first got me concerned about what's going on in pickall quite frankly I know most of you and I thought those guys they care about our sustainability they are not going to make their own decisions on this I know every one of you well enough even those who I disagree with Vince that I know I'm sorry Vince I didn't mean to put you on the spot but I figured you're looking at me going oh my God I was doing that I know that you all are sincere in your concern for our Lakes Dan's lived on crystal he knows it crystal is not Alam magnet as I said at our like at our last at your last meeting rather very very different lakes we have invested a good deal of money and some really Creative Solutions at Crystal not at Alam magnet Alam magnet citizens I have talked to three past presidents of the Lake Association none of them have ever been invited to work with the city on magnet Lake none now we all have many of us and myself included have tore up our backyards and put in De big buffers to the lake to do our Park uh many of us haven't put in impervious surfaces because the city won't let us for very good reasons Shoreland or ordinance right um but what you did 20 years ago was really neat at Crystal Lake for people who don't know um the city funded didn't get grants for funded a a a very expensive and very um robust solution for Lake quality at Crystal Lake what it was in the end was 17 rain Gardens in citizens yards the citizens paid nothing except for one day of Sweat Equity installing them brilliant but that was not us we meanwhile were doing our own thing we were cutting weeds at Alam magnet we were funding our own treatments we were we still are as we still do uh doing work at the park taking down Buck Thorn taking down invasive species and so forth so when I learned that that was done I again it reinforces my knowledge of of you all but I think things are being missed I think I think we're getting confused with some of the other Lakes sometimes but we're not you should all know and I'm happy to share osum details from your documents of how Alam magnet has not improved I'll say it again we have not made steps towards we we may have made steps but those steps have not been effective in improving Al Magnet in fact believe it or not Alam magnets both water quality and tdml which is the total phosphorus in the lake which are the two measurements that the city uses to measure the quality of our Lakes both of them are worse in the last decade than they were the de decade prior and it's our evidence as a city not my interpretation ation it's this it's the actual measurements year by year by year that show that so while the city may have made some efforts well we've made efforts while AB valy has made efforts we are status quo and in fact we're worse that wouldn't be so concerning except for the fact that we have lost in the last eight years I believe uh would be eight years going back from 2020 when we had our last fish survey the first the the fish species size and number have plummeted so now we have instead of 11 species of fish in Alam magnet like we did uh I think in 2016 we now have eight instead of fairly decent sized bass my son used to get a kick out of grow uh catching he wouldn't even lift his Rod at now because they're shrinking for some reason they don't seem to be shrinking numbers but in size they're shrinking we kind of know the reason but yellow perch which is a keystone species it's critical to the environment of the lake and surrounding has plummeted and my dad who used to be the president of the assoc Lake Association and also was the longest serving water quality guy in his work at Alam magnet for for the state um was shocked when I told him based on your documents on our our documents on the city documents we put 9,000 channel catfish in lake alaman it was a brilliant idea because our issue one of our issues was the kind of fish like uh carp and Bullhead in our case that can actually create worse water quality so catfish were introduced 9,000 that's a lot of catfish they were introduced and within 10 years they no longer were in the fish survey when the city or our contractors showed us that they would grow and reproduce and that would be a great solution for a lake like Alam magnet they didn't in fact they declin they seem to grow for a little while and then we couldn't find them something similar is happening at Alam magnet Park um I don't have quite as much re I'm still working on that um but a big issue for me a big concern for me is that the DNR has named Alam magnet Park one of just 2.6% of Dakota County that has endangered and rare species this is not small stuff this is a big deal and in fact we've seen some of those rare species on the lake we've seen things that don't show up for example in the cities count like white pelican which are on the threatened species of the state we we see loons which we never saw loons before we see the benefit of things like policies like uh doing away with DDT all the bird return that we're seeing is based on on ending DDT use problem is they're not doing as well at the at the park where we're going to put pickle ball with its lights and a lot of noise which research is well known do not do harm to bird species actually do do harm to manimals re reptiles and birds so we're going to be adding more problems even if we could mitigate it even if we had all kinds of millions of dollars to mitigate every problem that pickle ball might cause you're not going to solve the problem that we are going to see species flee that area and where are they going to go to Caribou Coffee I mean and we've got important ones there we've also seen declines in our our own City count of species of birds up at Alam magnet trying not to go on and on about anyone's species although I could if you wouldn't if you'd tolerate me uh your public feedback our public feedback from our citizens 2022 what was the city's our citizens favorite natural park guess what it was Al Magnet they're not talking about pick ball they're not even talking about baseball or or even the dog part which is beloved by many they're talking about the natural area which it it is uh We've they also are saying that one of their top priorities is surface water quality surface water means Lakes means Lake where you can see the surface which Alam magnet of course you can see I mean that's this is our own surveys that one kind of surprised me it's very astute in a sense I think for citizens to be aware that that matters um and to consider it a top uh one of their top concerns and in terms of what they wanted the city to do to protect and restore natural areas stop development in natural areas that was their number one reason 2022 RN uh natural resources management plan M gini may I ask you to quickly try to wrap up please will so that we can continue with the work of the you didn't want to listen to my home I've read all of your emails uh and and and there and you have a lot of great data and please know that we hear each and every one of you I'll know that when the pickle ball gets put in another place we know that pickall we're going through a process I understand and and so we also have to honor that process that everybody's voices are heard and and you know because you were part of this process back in about 20 years ago no it was not as I told you we were not invited um we invited everybody around all of the water bodies to come to City Hall I will I'll I'll send in an foa a Freedom of Information Act for that data because we none of the presidents of Lake Alam maget Association have seen that and I lived on the lake and didn't see it so what we do know is that you did invite Crystal and that made sense everybody around Twin Lakes uh Sunset early everybody who lived on water bodies and how I know that is because I was involved in all of that and every conference room in this building and downstairs were full with different water body communities and uh a process that took place and they're the ones who also uh asked that we put $15 million into all of the lakes to help I wonder if it was one Watershed we are part of a small Watershed no I know it was all water bodies in a city of Burnsville it doesn't matter what watershed you were in so but what I'm trying to say to you is that we will continue to do better all right and we have to go through the process but don't think that we haven't heard you or understand that uh you're asking us to also look at other areas so please understand that we are listening okay okay well I'll ask you to make sure that everybody's voices are heard well what I'm sure is that you have heard from a lot more pickleball players until just recently than us and I that I do have the data on Elizabeth we it is well known that they were invited you can see your invitations are all pickle ball as a non- pickleball player when I see pickleball in my mailbox I'm not going to jump on it now if you were to say water quality I'm going to jump on it so you've been targeting pickle ball and I don't mean to be disrespectful but that's that's the data that's the city's information and I really appreciate what you said Elizabeth I appreciate you guys having to go through the process I do understand that and our process is to not let you forget our concerns thank you and and you will know that okay and I think you have I'm just going to hand these out since Andrea couldn't finish she's done a lot of work on pulling things together so we just want to share it with you and you can take it home tonight or read it whenever you have time this is very good information and followup thank you yeah we appreciate all the work that you all have been doing uh and all of this so thank you is this generated by Andrea this generated by the advoc [Applause] of okay thank you so much um that's not what we got Mrs Henderson is there anyone online no there is not okay because these are the only names that uh had uh signed up to speak and we thank you all for coming we see you and we hear you and we're going to go continue on with this process and I think our staff in the last meeting with all of you uh gave you an outline of um uh of the process am I correct city manager Lindberg um Madame May the next decision point of the city council will be a conversation and a work session in April uh that will be at the conclusion of the design development process where staff will have more answers on study around natural resource management and some of the things that have come up tonight there's more um of the process that staff's going through absolutely yeah so between between now and then there will be plenty of opportunity for additional conversation actually our Public Works director our natural resource manager are here tonight um uh and can absolutely entertain questions or comments that folks have this evening as well so I think we actually have space aside for that they're interested this evening also so but please know that we understand and natural resources is very important to us uh otherwise we wouldn't have been spending a whole lot of money in terms of our water quality is very important uh we also want to protect our water source our aquifers and we do a lot of work around all of that and we have a sustainability plan that looks at our the whole environmental issue so but thank you so much for continuing to be vigilant about this and caring enough because we also care about the environment so we'll continue the process and make sure that all voices are heard thank you so much for coming in okay um with that um the next item then on the agenda there's no one online Mrs Henderson no there is not okay very good uh is additions to the final agenda and this is for emergency items only city manager Lindberg nothing staff may okay members of the council no no okay we will then move on the other is a consent agenda the consent agenda a group of items that's considered to be routine and will be enacted by one motion however an item on a consent agenda can be removed for a separate discussion and vote is there anyone in the audience who wishes an item on the consent agenda to be removed for a separate discussion and vote anyone Mrs Henderson is there anyone online no there isn't okay city manager Lindberg does staff want to pull anything not from staff mayor members of the council okay with that I would like a motion to adopt the consent agenda please move to approve second there's a motion and a second all in favor please say I I I oppose say nay and motion carries thank you uh we are now at the regular agenda and the first item on the regular agenda is a public hearing and uh this is a resolu olution adopting a uh Capital Improvement plan for 2025 2029 and giving preliminary approval to issue General obligation Capital Improvement bonds uh to finance a portion of improvements uh detailed in the plan for the police City Hall project and Fire Station 2 and presenting this evening is our Deputy city manager and CFO Jenny roie Mrs roie the floor is yours thank you um madad mayor maybe we'll just let uh our guests leave before you start [Music] shut the doors please Mrs roie the floor is yours uh Madame mayor council members um the item in front of you tonight is the uh approval of the CIP plan and preliminary approval for issuance of bonds related to the police City Hall project over the past um year and a half you've discussed or reviewed information related to the project or financing um numerous times and this evening our uh Mr Dan tinner for our Municipal adviser from Ellers will review um the CIP plan the projects um potential or preliminary bonding information as well as uh financing options so with that I'll turn it over to Dan okay thank you welcome good evening Madame mayor and members of the council uh thank you to Jenny for the introduction um not to repeat her but my name is Dan tinter I'm Municipal adviser with Ellers and Associates in this evening we're here to conduct a public hearing on the proposed 2029 excuse me 2025 to 2029 Capital Improvement plan a few items that we'll go over this evening just a little background and history uh Jenny touched on that a little bit and we'll get into a little more about that in just a slide here we'll talk about the proposed projects and the potential Bond issues as Madame mayor noted in the introduction to the item part of the component of the CIP is to authorize the city council at a future date to consider issuing bonds to support the projects included in the CIP we'll talk about some funding Alternatives and the funding source the council has selected to support The Debt Service on the projects particularly franchise fees and how the council kind of arrived at that decision uh like always we'll talk about some recommendations and some next steps and since it is a public hearing at that point in time uh if the council and the mayor considers it in order you can open in the public hearing to accept comments on the plan so what is a CIP uh from time to time this can be a little confusing because we talk about the CIP as a mechanism to issue bonds and per statute it is and but it's different than the CIP that you adopt as a part of your budget so in order just to clear up perhaps some terms of art here uh the CIP that you talk about that gets adopted with your budget that's all of your capital projects and plans the CIP this evening we usually refer to as a bond CIP and it's being considered Ed and potentially adopted this evening pursuant to Minnesota statute section 475 which specifically requires the council to make a series of findings related to the potential capital projects conduct a public hearing and then accept comments and then if the council were to adopt that would then provide you with the authorization to move forward with the projects and the bonds it's worth noting that the document itself has been available on file at City Hall since December 2nd and unless Jenny um would correct me I believe at this point in time the city has not received any comments on the plan itself uh it is a 133-page document and it includes a series of findings related to the conditions of the existing infrastructure the likely demand and estimated cost for the proposed improvements the available public resources we talk about the level of outstanding debt uh in and around the city uh the relative benefits and costs for the proposed uses the operating cost of the proposed improvements and perhaps my favorite part of the the CIP the opportunity to share facilities with other local governments so and as you can tell from the document itself that of course the council's been furnished with it is fairly comprehensive and address all of these questions and makes the appropriate findings in order for the council to basically move forward with the statutory process issue bonds so Jenny touched on this a little bit it's been um a a long time a long-term financial management planning timeline in fact if you look at these boxes all but one of them represents a city council meeting or work session as the council well knows way back really in uh 2021 that's perhaps when the first time you saw a placeholder in your budget for these projects and between then and really now there's been at least five meetings on the financing of those projects and of course that doesn't include any of the meetings the council had related to the projects themselves for their design engineering and public Outreach so really over the last two and a half years or so there's been at at least 10 public meetings on these projects in some way shape or form so I think that's fair to say and we can call that robust and thoughtful conversation bringing us to this point uh this evening the one thing I I would mention is that the projects and really the financing ultimate costs for them are informed by a by several studies not least of which are the financial management plan the facilities funding analysis we conducted um a review with S&P Global your credit rating agency of records their rating evaluation service we also conducted a franchise fee class rate study to determine the appropriate sizing of the franchise fees to support The Debt Service over time that this slide also does not include the organizational assessment that was conducted by CLA the space needs and assessment and some of the design engineering that was conducted by bkv and cnh so as you can tell really uh from all of the process to date there the council has heard from a number of quarters that have ultimately informing the C this evening so you've seen this slide before uh but generally right now there when we talk about these major facilities projects we're talking about three really police City Hall fire station number two and the maintenance facility uh really the projects that are contemplated this evening are the first two that are listed on the slide police City Hall and fire station number two the CIP really covers a five-year period And so as mentioned on the slide the proposed document before you this evening really references police City Hall and just a portion of fire station number two right now we are currently planning on issuing somewhere around $100 million in bonds for police City Hall at some point time in the future for fire station number two the city would consider issuing potentially up to $30 million uh but right now the CIP is currently contemplated only includes a portion of fire station number two really to get the ball rolling on that project when the time comes design engineering land acquisition if necessary and other costs so these are the two projects that are are included police city hall right now um if you look at the attachments or the exhibits to the plan a not to exceed cost of $100 million we're proposing a bond term of 20 years and really the authorized purposes included in the plan are the acquisition construction and betterment of the site and then any Associated equipment with the facility itself fire station number two very similar uh purposes authorized under the plan same anticipated Bond term but you can see the not to exceed cost there is really only 5 million of the proposed 30 million so if you add up all those numbers essentially what you arrive at is Project costs contemplated by the CIP of up to $105 million the CIP also authorizes the council for debt of up to $105 million right now really though the focus of the CIP is that first project police City Hall which would which if the council decided to move forward of course with the CIP and then move through the the bidding process and awarding contracts would begin sometime in 2025 for or really up to that $100 million so that's really the the thrust of the plan this evening the one thing I should mention is that the city May issue these Bonds in one or more series in fact when we get to very large projects that have $100 million let's say it's often advantageous to size the debt in multiple series usually over a couple of years because as you know the project will take some time to construct and often we can reduce the amount of borrowing because we may not have to borrow for let's say a portion of the contingency which you otherwise have to borrow for if you if you bonded all at once for the entire cost of the project so I only mention this to the council in the event that you adopt the CIP and decide to move forward with the projects when the financing occurs at a later date the bonds the that first Bond may be less than the 100 million and then another Series in the future so all of those sizing and structure considerations will happen a few months from now if the council decides to move forward really we'll get more information once the city bids the projects gets add bid add bid costs and we really know kind of what we're dealing with and can then make a fin make financing strategy decisions accordingly um oh excuse me the other thing I would mention just to for the The public's benefit really why are these projects included in the CIP there's a handful of of items for each of them and this is outlined in more detail in the document itself so I'll just summarize here police City Hall really has a lack of space to accommodate the additional staffing needs over the next 5 years and really into the foreseeable future the city is currently repurposing existing space for other uses and consistent with its original design so really using um spaces that weren't designed to host work stations lactation rooms Wellness spaces secure storage Etc really trying to find every available space in the existing facility to make do with what the city currently has um the building layouts currently do not provide sufficient Gathering spaces for the community they require uh significant improvements to both HVAC and information technology systems uh and then perhaps of most interest to our friends in the police department the garage does not provide sufficient contiguous space to house all of their equipment exposing their vehicles to inclement weather which of course increases operating and replacement costs for the city uh and then of uh of course it's worth noting that in police excuse me in the city hall itself there are considerable security improvements that are need needed at at at present the public maintains access to both levels of the facility really without the supervision of staff and as we stand here in the city council chambers you currently do not have a secure secondary ESS so something to keep in mind there when it comes to fire station number two that's a little different uh that uh City that City facility currently will have to be relocated as it does not provide appropriate site uh areas to accommodate modern firefighting apparatuses or apparate ey depending on your flavor and uh uh and does not really also have space to accommodate additional staff um it requires significant improvements like City Hall to HVAC and its information technology systems um and really it needs more capability support the perhaps most importantly the health and well-being of the city's firefighters which of course will improve their quality of living and enhance city services so just a quick rundown of really the cost of the projects the proposed financing and really the reason why the city has come to this point and is proposing to move forward with them at this time so let's get into the really fun stuff the possible Bond terms so right now included in the CIP itself we have 20-year Bond schedules we are really finding the 20 years uh fits the proposed use of the facilities to meet the tests and the bond statutes um it's also worth noting that uh the faster you retire the debt the less interest expense you'll pay over time and as this slide demonstrates if you were to go from 20 to 30 years the city would actually spend about $35 million in additional interest expense um additionally though when that happens we do have to raise The Debt Service amounts in order to retire enough principal over the 20 years so as you can see in that middle box on the average debt service it is higher under the 20-year scenario because you are paying off more of the principal earlier but you ultimately do it to the tune of saving $35 million in interest expense or potentially $18 million in interest expense or closer to 19 I should say uh over 25 years so when it comes to The Debt Service funding options the city council considered a number of Alternatives and this uh slide perhaps doesn't do as much Justice to the robust conversation the council had regarding these three Alternatives but really for the points of our conversation tonight I believe it's a nice summary really option A is the franchise fee alternative uh it's worth noting that the city council's current policy has been to fund at least recently your major facilities projects using franchise fees so as noted in the slide that's consistent with the city's current policy it also captures tax exempt Properties or those properties that don't pay property taxes but otherwise receive a benefit from having state-of-the-art facilities for police firefighters City Hall and potentially many years from now a maintenance facility ultimately when we crunch the numbers they also have the lowest overall cost per residential payer assuming a median value Val residential household and really when you look at the other two options with property taxes or a combination thereof we had looked at a 50/50 combination both of those were inconsistent with the city's past practice of funding those major facilities using franchise fees it either excluded or only partially captured those property those property tax exempt properties and particularly with option b for the residential payer that was actually the highest cost to move forward with the property tax component and then option C the combination it was more complicated we were using two different funding sources so really it was potentially more confusing we would have to do to use a technical Finance term a bit more splaining to the public about how it is you were financing the facilities which of course can create some consternation on the part of the property tax and ratee payers so ultimately what ended up happening after the council uh provided guidance to move forward with the franchise fees they the council also looked at some variations on the franchise fees and actually looked at three Alternatives settling on what we ended up calling option option two um really variable increases across the different rates so what ends up happening under this scenario is the increases are really between 100 and 160% depending on the classification Additionally the proposed franchise fees rep reflect a comparative analysis that the council requested uh for the franchises so we looked at your 15 pure communities as well as a handful of other communities in and around the metro and we designed the fees to have a same or similar structure to make sure that you were at least in the same design or structure as your peers so this looks very similar to what we would see in those 15 other communities the other thing to keep in mind is that the these increases would apply to both the electric and Natural Gas Utilities and if the council will move forward as you'll see in a slide here in a little bit we have a recommendation that you would adopt the ordinance uh amending the franchise fees early next year to take effect on or around July 1st of 2025 and that's primarily to allow the city to start to build reserves when you would make your first full Debt Service payment in 2026 assuming the council borrowed funds in 2025 that's the typical schedule you would borrow in one year and then you begin paying in the following year so by starting kind of halfway through you get a little bit of a head start and build some reserves in order to make those Debt Service payments and not have any cash flow issues related to City finances it's also worth noting that and this was um a Northstar really in the analysis and something that the council had made very clear throughout the process these increases in the franchise fees are really used to just pay the debt service on the police City Hall project the existing franchise fees still supports your ongoing Capital Improvement program meaning that we are not using existing franchise fees to pay for Debt Service on the new facilities and then coming back at a later date and saying oh by the way now we need more franchise fees in order to deliver the program you already have so really what we're trying to do is look at all of the needs of the city and your facilities and then size the fee accordingly including the police City Hall project and that's ultimately what this structure accomplishes so these are some tenative next steps I should note that it will change a little over time the council and the city are still involved in the process of Designing and developing the projects you will still have to go through the bid process and some things may change as a result of of accepting those bids and so really this is our best guess at this point in time but I think we feel fairly confident in it right now we are doing informational stakeholder meetings I think as the council aware we've already conducted one with the Burnsville Chamber of Commerce and right now we're working on Outreach with the various utility providers to seek their feedback on the proposed structure provided by the city council related to franchise fees this evening we're holding the CIP public hearing and then afterwards on uh January 21st is when the council would authorize to adver advertise uh the bids for the police City Hall projects at that same date is when we would recommend that you adopt the franchise fee ordinance Amendment this is primarily because we want to make sure that this happens earlier to avoid any challenges with other critical portions of the project uh for whatever reason the council decided not to move forward with the project you could always cancel the amendment and not adjust the fees but certainly by adopting it earlier we could notify the utility providers earlier and we would ensure that the council starts collecting those Fe those revised fees on by that July 1st date that I mentioned before right now at this point in time uh you would accept bids and award contracts and call for the sale of bonds on April 8th so I think we can call April 8th a doozy of a council meeting that will be I have a lot of moving Parts there and then right now we are planning on awarding the sale of bonds on May 6 that May 6th date will be important because of the size of the project and the financial position of the city we'll want to make sure that the city has Bond proceeds in hand so you can start making those First Progress payments without potentially having to use any of your city Investments so really making sure that and what this schedule is designed to do is to line up the timing of the project with the financing with when we think the city will receive its first bill and you would have to make your first payment on the capital projects themselves so really based on all of the analysis and process to date Ellers recommends and of course Madame mayor if you considered to be an order uh that you open the hearing to accept public comments after accepting public comments close the hearing and then include it in your agenda packet this evening is a resolution uh as outlined by the mayor at the top of this item approving the CIP that I've just discussed and giving that preliminary approval to the issuance of the capital Improvement plan bonds I would stress and not necessarily to repeat myself that this only gives preliminary authorization for the bonds as you saw in the schedule before there would be a number of items where the council would still have to take positive action most notably at least from the financing perspective calling for the sale of bonds and awarding the bond sale so the last thing I'll say is if you approve the CIP you are still under no obligation to issue the bonds this really just allows you to make a decision in the future if you decide to issue the bonds by meeting all the statutory tests that are required for the CIP bonds I will say I can't help but look at Jared every time I say statutory thank you so much for that thorough um report not only to us but also to um uh our residents are there any questions for Mr tinter I mean we've gone through study sessions with him um and staff is are there any questions council member uh key Mr Tiner um can you quantify some of the numbers that you referred to in the presentation um comparing a franchise fee going to all properties in the city through the electric and gas versus a property tax levy and what that homeowner would pay uh on a levy increase versus what they would pay in those those numbers that you showed for residential uh franchise fees U mam mayor members of the council yes we can I guess move into the epilog of the presentation oh sorry did I jump ahead a little bit no no I uh there was a fair chance that I thought this question might come up so I think the thing to keep in mind here when we look at franchise fees versus property taxes uh is that we have to make some assumptions about the value of the properties so as you can see in this slide for a residential Homestead we've assumed $350,000 which is the median valued home in the city of Burnsville for a small commercial industrial property we're assuming a value of 500,000 2 million for a medium-sized property and 5 million for a quote unquote large commercial industrial property as you can see uh in the slide the increases for franchise fees for a residential Homestead would be about $96 annually it' be about $43.20 for a small property 960 bucks for a medium commercial industrial property and then uh just over $6,900 for a large commercial industrial property again that's if the council decided to Levy all property taxes in order to make the debt Savers payments on the bonds when it comes to excuse me those are the franchise fees when it comes to the property taxes and this is payable for 2024 we'll get new numbers in 2025 here in a few months the increase for a residential home said would be about $275 for a small property it'd be about $490 for a medium commercial industrial property those property tax increases would be about $2,100 and then you can see the large commercial industrial properties are right around $ 53 $0000 and as outlined in The Orange Box really compared to uh when you compare franchise fees and property taxes uh the residential Homestead payer pays less under the franchise fee model the small commercial industrial property pays less under the franchise fee model the medium commercial industrial property pays less under the franchise fee model and then the large commercial industrial property ends up paying more under the franchise Fe model but I would remind the council in the discussion that we had one of the work sessions there was a decision made to essentially increase the commercial industrial rates especially for the large commercial industrial uh properties a little more on a percentage basis than the residential rates really under the theory that the folks that are using the public rights of way to deliver goods and services for their business are really benefiting from the use of public property whereas folks that are using those public right of ways to heat and cool their home homes or to cook food they're really using those Public Utilities just for the care and enjoyment of their home so the idea essentially being that the residential payers their increas is a little less and the uh large commercial industrial their increase is a little more now I say a little less and a little more because we're still talking about 100% increase for the residential payer and we're talking about 160% increase for the large commercial industrial pair so essentially even though the council has made a decision to make the structure perhaps to to use the the tax term a little more Progressive everyone is still chipping in with a pretty um with a considerable increase in the franchise fee thank you uh question for staff how many businesses fall into that large group or maybe Mr tinter knows answer that question yeah um mam mayor members of the council I would have to look to get the numbers exactly but my Rec ction is for the very largest especially on the natural gas side it's I'm looking at Jenny here I think it's only a couple dozen it's not a big number in fact I I think the thing to keep in mind here when we look at this your residential rate payers in terms of number of customer accounts make up 90% yeah of the average customer accounts and then 10% is commercial industrial thank you well that that chart is perfect because it really lays out the case for for using franchise fees where everyone pays for these police City Hall fire essential Services right compared to putting that burden on just those property taxpayers who have a property tax burden um it's quite Stark to to see the difference of uh $275 versus $96 that's a that's a big savings to be able to invest in the uh infrastructure for City Hall and and eventually fire for the next next uh 30 to 40 years um so I appreciate that thank you okay any other questions from Mr Tiner if not I will now open a public hearing is there anyone who wishes to speak to this item anyone who wishes to speak to this item Mrs Henderson anyone online no there is not okay seeing no one I will close the public hearing members of the Council before us is um uh a resolution to adopt and approve a Capital Improvements plan and giving uh preliminary approval to issue General obligation Capital Improvement bonds move to approve second there's a motion and a second all in favor please say I I I oppose say nay and a motion carries um thank you Mr tener thank you Deputy uh city manager and CFO Jenny br uh thank you uh city manager Lindberg and all of our staff who have worked so hard on all of this and um wishing everybody a very merry Christmas and happy holidays member of the council there are no other items to come before us this evening and a motion to adjourn is in order second there's a motion and a second all in favor please say I I oppose say nay and a motion carries thank you everyone have a good night Merry Christmas