so this is the virtual open house for the city project 2016-13 uh cahill trunk drainage improvements right now i just have the agenda showing just a reminder to stand mute at this time unless you have a communications issue with the presentation and we'll stop and make sure that you are seeing and hearing us clearly okay so we're one minute after six so i think we'll go ahead and get started i'll just do a mic check to make sure those present can hear me clearly i can hear you steve i can hear you thank you thank you um so thank you appreciate that so at this point we'll just go through the presentation quickly uh briefly and uh then we'll do a question and answer at the end with those present uh we're basically going to go through a uh project history overview a stormwater analysis overview look through the proposed improvements in the schedule and then we'll go through our question and answer session and i'm steve dodge from the engineering division i'm the assistant city engineer and i'm working with this project with luke moore of kimberly horn and associates he's the project manager in the fisheries this is a city project number 2016-13 chao trunk drainage improvements this is the december 8th open house for feedback on the fees bill report so general project history and overview is the carlito cahill trunk drainage area uh if you can see my hand it's going over the yellow and green area the showing the cahill avenue and then on both sides of cahill uh is a pretty large drainage area uh that is collected and uh carlita is kind in the center of that and uh basically uh the trunk uh storm sewer line uh runs right through this cape south side of carlita right off of cahill and so this was identified during the carlito way feasibility study back in 2015 and at that time the city paused the carlito way street reconstruction project in order to identify the potential intermittent flooding and improvements that could be made to resolve that on the south side of uh carlito way in 64th court and so what happened was that was on hold for a couple years and then the city did identify funding for this project which is the 2016 13 ko trunk drainage improvements uh in and so we continued the process here in 2020 once funding was identified and then council authorized feasibility study this august and then we um they received the feasibility study on november 9th and scheduled this public hearing coming up for december 14th and what we are identifying with the stormwater existing conditions is that and 64th court there is a property on the northeast corner especially the the property could see some [Music] temporary flooding in large rainfall events and the court itself would receive the roadway could receive temporary flooding concerns and so and and that is partially due to the cahill trunk sewer line which is in yellow and crosses uh on the south side of this drawing here uh does have some capacity issues uh because it is such a large drainage area and we identified that there's there's existing ponding that occurs uh right in this area what's called the south pond area and we also wanted to identify any other you know localized drainage issues uh with this cahill trunk sewer capacity concerns so the proposed conditions is we reviewed three options and option one was reviewed upsizing storm pipe that exists that goes between the lots off of 64th court because 64th court was one of the flooding areas of concern option two was upsizing or addressing storm sewer capacity and uh the pipe on the south side of the project coming off of cahill avenue and then the third option was uh they have two vacant lots here on carlito way where uh there's a capacity to [Music] increase some of the storm water [Music] volume uh being held to relieve the 64th court drainage problems so look at all three options in the proposed conditions option three is the most cost effective and feasible to work with the residents a few residents on ponding on the south side of carlita and being that is a already a low area with two lots uh owned by the same property owner uh that uh are unimproved and they and vacant right now there's an opportunity for relief on this project of the storm water conditions so the proposed uh pawning option three which is the most feasible will provide additional storage and [Music] 4k hill avenue and a cleat away intersection provides treatment for carlito whey air reconstruction project through a filtration style design uh the soils that were found here were um in in the ground water were such that this can only be a filtration style design it can we cannot promote infiltration and the 64 excuse me the 64th court uh area uh high water line is now being lowered to um make sure that from the blue down to the green uh so that only the the uh ponding area now and the uh flooding condition is now only inundated and captured mostly in the street so that's a large improvement for 64th court and then we'll be grading the pond that's here to mimic existing conditions as far as uh how much in water impacts uh this area but also to minimize trees and disturbance uh in conjunction with working with these property owners especially uh the uh mitchell trees who and their partnership that and family members that own these two lots uh vacant lots there's a specific request to limit tree disturbance and grading so we've worked on that in the feasibility report to minimize uh disturbance total project cost is four hundred and seventy thousand dollars and 175 dollars there's no assessments uh for this project and it is being funded proposed to be funded through the payment management program or as directed by council and the permanent ease of acquisition necessary now ends up only being four parcels uh the two vacant lots uh the lot at 64 20 which are the blaisdells just next to uh and east of the project and then the south lot down down here uh which um we're also uh working with uh the mitchell trees on the these are the four lots that we would be uh working on easement acquisition [Music] and then uh permanent easements would be excuse me permanent is no longer necessary for anywhere past the blaisdells we made sure to keep the reduce the area that was shown in the regional the original feasibility report to minimize uh impacts to other properties so there will be a addendum or an amendment to the fees of voter report number one that will go to council on december 14th because after feedback from residents and working with engineers we're able to reduce the footprint and only and minimize the amount of residents we have to work with down to four instead of six and then uh the easement acquisition process engagement will begin following uh the hearing on december 14th and the co once the council orders the project uh so on december 14th we'll have the improvement hearing and we'll order uh you know plans and specifications in the project and then we hope to do our final design and approval of plans and specs and bidding in conjunction with the carlita way reconstruction project so um so big big part of uh this project uh is to understand the impacts to carlito way with our stormwater design so that uh the crelida way project can incorporate uh any improvements that need to be necessary uh or or changes to the road design or storm design uh in conjunction with this project so at this point uh that's the presentation uh for the for the cahill trunk drainage improvements and that would open up to questions for from uh the participants in the meeting who's gonna go first this is greg mitchell tree uh greg you are uh you're open to talk you have the table okay so i have several um questions here now first i didn't realize that it was going to impact on our acre according to this map here those are going to potentially only impact two of our lots so why has this changed so greg um i guess steve you want me to take this one yes because you've been directly working with craig on that area when when you're saying impact greg um what was up on the screen that steve was showing so steve made reference to an amendment that's going to go into or is going to go to council at the same time as the public hearing that as we went through and did some more research related to property records that that piece was was left out originally the amen the design changes that are happening essentially brought the easements actually in to less impact the two vacant parcels that area that steve's highlighting that's just a permanent easement area because the water ponds there there are no grading or tree removal or any sort of construction impacts proposed in that area consistent with before this this amendment is just cleaning up the locations where that actual permanent easement needs to be but there are no the staking that was and generally the construction limits that were shown when that got staked previously there hasn't been a change to that so say hypothetically we wanted to upgrade or modify our part of our acre build extra buildings on it would that impact is going to be permanent now that would be a permanent easement for that small sliver of red area that's kind of by that where the hand is on the screen so anything that from a private property improvement that you wanted to make if it was you know in relation to that little area there that would require input from the city right so saying nothing right so i'm saying now impacting three parts of our land now before i was only two all right uh greg this is steve dodge so just uh i just want to clarify that um so these this is a open house meeting and we are uh we recording it for the public record and uh so that that i want to just make sure you're aware of as we have our conversation but the um the part i want to bring up to you is that what luke is trying to bring up to is the there is no disturbance in that area and this is the same uh all we're saying is that that's just the water that defines the state the stakes you saw when you asked it to be staked to find that should have defined that area is what i'm hearing from luke and all we're all doing is uh is as part of basic cleanup trying to obtain a small poor a very small portion of that property where the high water line is is matches existing conditions so uh what we're showing matches existing conditions and we're not trying to increase the disturbance area of the pond or the high water line so if that wasn't conveyed to you earlier um but it's a you're talking about a a small um 500 square foot area uh so that would be like 10 by 50 you know if as an example but um obviously this kind of goes a little bit in and out but anyways the the major disturbance is obviously on the two properties that we originally talked to as far as disturbance this is does this clean up the drainage hot high water line of one 100 years the water would go slightly onto that property so we just it's just a cleanup item and so hopefully that's you on you know you know better understood okay so the question i have here is i'm not sure if you guys can answer this and i asked us about um liability that if for some reason that there's water there and the kids in the neighborhood go in there and triple and die so i asked us prior who would have the liability yep and i answered that greg and um and what you asked for this is steve dodge again assistance engineer so i'd answer at that time that the city takes on the liability uh we're building the pond we have the easement in our name but what you asked for is specific uh information from the city attorney that explicitly says that so i asked for that information from the city attorney but what i'll do is i'll make sure that we get that to you before next monday's meeting greg okay also how does this impact our top taxes i believe it does not i mean that's that's a a county assessor assesses for uh taxes and how that works but my understanding is it does not uh that you would continue to pay taxes on the property so really paying taxes for a property that we can't build on greg that is correct and you have the um option to go to border review and uh at the county level and let them know that the whole property is under easement and is not buildable i had to do that with a property of mine one time go to border review and i was able to get my taxes adjusted but i can't control that part of it because the only way to get rid of the taxes for you is twofold either we purchase the property outright so the city owns it and we pay taxes on it or uh if we're just getting easement over it as you requested then it's you're the property owner still so you would need to go to the county uh board of review or in the county to address any tax questions you have okay um can you provide us the three proposals because we didn't get that expect this information during the hearing luke you can answer that sorry greg can you can you ask that question one more time oh yes can you provide the three proposals according to the map that you provided me that we don't see the three proposals because we want to be able to discuss the three proposals to the city and and when you're saying the three proposals you're referencing the alternatives that were the other options that were in the so those are included um if you so the feasibility report you should be able to access that on the project website okay so i get that image from the city page yeah so i guess a couple things so the feasibility report itself um that should be on the cahill trunk drainage improvements um webs or project page on the city's website and you should be able to download that and one of the appendices of the feasibility report is the stormwater analysis that was completed so that's going to have the information that steve kind of gave a brief overview of and then i think steve referenced this as well you know it this presentation as well as the slides will also go up on the city's website short you know later this week um if you know uh other your other family members or you know anybody else wants to to take a look at what was discussed here tonight okay and this is an engineered question for steve so um throughout the years of flooding do you know how often these parcels will fill up with water yeah so greg that comes down to the modeling that kimberhorn did so kinley horn would have to answer on the event that this is modeled for the high water line of the green area that was shown earlier is the 100 year high water line so that we know and that the hundred year high water line is considered uh the the one percent event uh but i'll let luke uh maybe take that any further because they they actually did the modeling and the design yeah greg so the cities um if you go through their code their their standard for the design event so the most extreme event is like steve said the 100 year rainfall event which is the 1 chance event so that has the 1 chance of happening every year so you know how how many times is that gonna happen is you know that's not predictable that depends on what the weather and what the rainfall events are like in a particular year what we do know is the home on 64th court and i'm forgetting the address but the the property that we know is at risk for flooding the owner that lives there has told us it has happened twice in the past so we do have record from the property owner that it is a it is a true issue that has caused flooding in the home twice um in their history of of knowledge of the property okay so i'm looking at this uh green line that's basically you're saying that's more if that's 100 basically 100 year rainstorm right yep that would impact our acre so really majority of the rain that's coming in mostly just gonna probably only impact one lot yeah and that's correct and greg one thing um just to note related to the amendment that's going to come out to the feasibility study what we actually did to after we had those meetings and looked at ways to further reduce impacts to some of the other property owners is once we got the geotechnical information and knew we weren't going to do an infiltration pond and we had that information we actually are proposing now to lower that area by a foot to provide some additional volume and what that allows us to do is that green line that's shown on there you can see it's kind of some small text but it says 818.71 that's the proposed high water line of that area when we went through the process to model the existing conditions the high water line for that area today and that's this is without the water being dumped in that flood water being dumped in here is an 818.79 so we are you know for intensive purposes we are generally we are actually maintaining the high water line in that area so based on our modeling when you when you would get the really big the six seven inch rainfall event the amount the the height or the elevation that the water would stage up to in that area with our expanded grading that's shown on here we would expect that to generally mimic the same elevation after the project as it does today so that's actually a change from what we were talking about before where we were actually proposing an increase to the water level elevation in that area okay uh my next question is vegetation replacement after you do all this stuff what are your plans to what type of vegetation are you planning to replace so typically you know we have different options and things that we can do for a filtration basin um but typically for that style of storm water facility it would be some native grasses um and we would have some some shrub type plantings in the basin bottom to help promote establishment of that basin but we certainly as a part of i mean that the i guess turf establishment and landscaping related to that basin is something that would get looked at further and more finalized in the final design phase and there's certainly flexibility as we've discussed before greg um to what can get planted there so i guess we're in great this is this is steve this is steve dodge greg and i just wanted to point out because we you and i and luke have talked about this before and i just want to point out that as we go through the process of the easement acquisition with you and the pond design you showed interest in um what you know you can show interest in health and providing input on vegetation type uh you know but ultimately the city will maintain it because you know it is a stormwater pond so you'd want us to maintain uh whatever is approved to be in there but the idea is it's going to be a filtration system which means that the border of the pond will have a filtration trench where water will be collected and um and cleaned uh before it gets into the piping pipe network and then the rest of and then the rest of the pond uh at that level below the filtration area uh would be would be all uh engineered uh soils and um and basically uh a vegetative plan uh would be put together and we would be open to your input on that and working with you as the landowner and because but then we'll want to pick and select with you uh planting types that are conducive to surviving uh in the bottom of this pond and uh and and again it is it is a dry pond that's the intent of what we have here it's just a dry basin it as you mentioned earlier greg is oh it's meant to fill up in water when we get large rainfall events but your standard rainfall events should move through here pretty quickly within that 24 hour to 72 hour or 48 hour to 72 hour period so the plant types that we propose will survive and be protected and we'll work with you on those plant types as we get further along into design and and work together on easement acquisition i think our just our more concern is we just want to have we look over the parcels or the lots to see the neighbors we just want to have a big huge gap in there that we see through you understand yep so we got your request and we'll uh work on a uh you know the the border vegetation uh is you know will help out with that but there's uh vegetation type such as dogwood which grows uh you know eight feet plus high uh the dogwood bush and that's allowed in these infiltration basins and it also provides a pretty uh substantial greenery in the summer and uh quite a bit of branches in the winter uh a thicket per se uh if that makes sense so we can work with you on vegetation types on a border on just outside of the easement or at the edge of the easement and also what goes in the easement also the when you do the construction on the other side of the property i assume you're gonna be removing trees to during the construction is that correct can you be greg maybe more specific i mean tree removals yes would happen you know typically that is one of the first things that happens on construction projects i guess what area are you asking about specifically just outskirts so consistent i mean steve can bring the image back up maybe but the essentially those the the stakes that were out there and they may still be out there um that were showing those construction limits that would be the which on this what steve shown is that yellow dashed line not the green line um that's the proposed area of impact so anything within that line and again that was one of the items that was staked um that would be the area where we would be anticipating trees to be cleared no yeah i'm not worried about that i'm talking about the out by the the road area uh would it be the north side so to construct to build constructions you'll have to tear that all up correct so yeah so that the area for this project the area in yellow that's the limits of construction for this project and we would and that would be kind of the access point likely for the contractor to get equipment down to do but the other you know to the west of steve's hand you know we haven't gotten far enough into the carlito way project um to understand what tree removals are going to be necessary as a part of the road reconstruction so i you know i i guess i can't answer along the curb line what the disturbance is going to be at this time but typically we we expect we generally would expect impacts to be inside the right-of-way for the roadway project oh yeah right but i'm talking about inside the lots not the roadside project i'm talking about tour that i wish i could point maybe you can hold your button hold stop for a second okay go by where the drainage part is at the pink you got a solar area there that green line and that area i assume you're gonna have to remove trees so the construction can go in correct correct so in order to install the storm sewer the pre-treatment structure and the storm sewer outlet as well as the city needs an access point for for a small vehicle and to be able to access the pond to maintain it there would be a length there and it generally is that area in between the yellow dash line that we would anticipate trees trees would be cleared in that area that's correct so there won't be no trees replaced then because you need access is that correct so steve maybe you can speak to this one it's not typical for the city to do tree replacements within the right-of-way um so i can take this luke so the uh so in the right of way if we remove trees greg uh the city ordinances no don't place trees in in the right of way so we would not be putting any trees back into the right of way and then that's the white line here and the disturbance area is grading for the pond you can see there's some grading that goes up to the road and then the green area here is uh the actual hundred years so we wouldn't believe you're my mistake it's easy it's easy to slip up on that one so yeah i'll go backwards here so the right right-of-way is you know the grading limits go right up to the road up here and the white line is the right-of-way and so the city ordinance is such that we don't place trees in there right away so once we disturb it we're not putting trees back into the right of way so once you get past the white line now you're already into the 100 year uh area of the pond of the dry basin and that we don't usually place trees in the 100 year area of a dry basin either because that can just be a future obstruction of the ponding system and it makes it hard to maintain that's why we use shrubs and native uh grasses typically um so yeah the area in yellow you see going up to the road here from uh each side of these basins from yellow to yellow yeah you would have no trees in this area greg proposed that's where we're concerned about that when we look out we see all the way across we see the neighbors i mean this is not my concern as well but it's also the rest of the family's concern i'm just trying to figure out because i'm only representative for the whole family here yep and and greg i guess uh what i would point out is you know your house is uh down here so this is the view you're talking about uh and you're taught and you're asking about you know looking the north and and across this pond and seeing the neighbors we're seeing the neighbors over here and and uh luke luke you could probably talk to the existing tree canopy that's in this area the actual existing low area versus the tree canopy outside of the low area because we kind of walk that and i think that there's a lot of dead trees in the area we're already talking about putting the pond and once you kind of start moving out of the low area there's a better uh existing trees uh you know are not being touched and provide the screening that's already there yeah and steve that's consistent with both just from my own personal review of the site as well greg um we did have the city arborist do a tree inventory of this area so we do have information that assuming the project is ordered by council and we start working with you on right-of-way negotiations um that we have that information to for our use and however however we see or you know you are or the city sees fit as part of that discussion but the majority of that area there are a lot of trees one that are falling down um there are some dead trees as well and while i i can't say was certain why that is it's a likelihood that that is a low-lying area today that ponds water and trees tend to in areas that are regularly immersed with with standing water for a period of time tend to not survive that so um that area in and greg you i mean it's your property you would know but the the density of the trees down in that area is significantly less than as you move up the hills right and greg this is steve dodge again i just want to say that some of the questions you have too uh we you know there's a resolution to this when we get to the easement and acquisition uh discussions is that if there's a loss of screening that is a concern that can usually be part of the payment for land acquisition process for the easement acquisition and that means that there can be us some provided to you for planting additional trees if you see fit in this area uh between your house and the paw and the dry basin so in case you want to increase the screening in this area to compensate for any screen loss where the pond's at so we can negotiate that greg but it would basically be not us planting more trees on your property it typically is we degree on a sum and then you hire a landscaping expert to come in and put an additional screening on on your property where you see fit and that allows you full flexibility then to place it the type of uh landscaping or tree that you'd like to put in and uh and place it exactly where you'd want to uh and you just do that with the the monies that come out of the easement agreements does that make sense yeah i'll bring this proposal to the rest of the family and i guess we'll just have to discuss this at the hearing of our concerns and disapprovals and stuff yeah and that's what the public hearing is for is the for the residents to share their pros and cons for or against and um just and see if there's uh staff and uh city can come you know to further resolution as needed uh you know after the project is ordered and uh but um okay any any other questions greg no i guess we'll just most of the questions will have to be answered at the hearing i guess because i'm not getting them here so no more questions for me okay greg and then i think what come on came out of this meeting is we'll look at the um uh see where the city attorney is as far as providing the uh specific information on easement you know ponding and drainage easements and uh liability question you have and we'll we'll try to get that to you um by next monday prior to the hearing sounds good all right well thanks for participating greg we do appreciate it so if there are no further questions or participation then i think we will end the informational meeting we're having an open hou virtual open house for the feasibility report for the 2016-13 trunk cahill trunk drainage improvements project and i appreciate everyone's participation this is steve dodge uh assistance to the engineer with luke morin of kinley horn and associates and we will post this on the webpage for at the city webpage for the the project uh at cahill trunk drainage improvements thank you okay thank you