[0:03] [Music] [0:20] [Music] [0:54] I call to order the January 23rd 2025 Planning Commission meeting please join [0:59] me in the flag [1:20] pledge Miss goodroad will you please do a a roll call of members h i Tinsley I [1:27] kza morovich here here Ike here [1:35] here agenda item number three approval of minutes January 9th 2025 Planning [1:41] Commission minutes any [Music] [1:46] changes all right and those will B um an [1:51] agenda item number four Miss Jensen any announcements uh yes thank you um I do [1:58] not have any handouts for this evening uh as for announcements just wanted to let you know that the parks recreation [2:05] and natural resources committee uh did not have a quorum last night so they did [2:10] not have their meeting and were not able to review and uh provide you a vote on [2:15] the Antler Ridge second edition preliminary plat um but just as for [2:20] information uh because it was a it's a revised preliminary plat they did see [2:26] the initial review of that in on July 5th of 2023 so it was not a new project [2:31] for them um and then if these items aren't tabled they will move forward to the February 2nd city council meeting [2:39] all right thank you all right and all three next agenda [2:44] items are public hearings so anyone wishing to speak on any one of the agenda items please make sure you print [2:50] your name and address on the appropriate agenda item in the back of the [2:55] rooma item number five antlers Ridge second edition this is a public hearing [3:00] to consider the application of tamarak land Lake Maran Commons LLC for the [3:06] preliminary plat for 26 twin home lots to be known as antlers Ridge second edition and a conditional use permit for [3:13] a Shoreland impact plan within the Shoreland overlay District of Lake Maran [3:19] located east of Kendrick Avenue and west of Kenfield [3:24] Trail and we have so sorry [3:31] Mr Herman to give a brief overview of the project here members of the commission [3:37] thank you very much uh for your time not only in review of the application but also in your time tonight and the [3:44] consideration of our um our application my name is Nate Herman I um this am the civil engineer for the project I'm also [3:51] um the developers representative here tonight so I can certainly um stand by [3:56] to answer any questions I I know we were here I don't know it was maybe not quite a [4:02] year ago or maybe it was about a year ago that we were here for the first round and um we did go through with [4:08] phase one so phase one is constructed and um you know building permits are are [4:13] able to to be uh to be pulled lar lar home building is is the the Builder for [4:19] the development and um we do have a you know slight change that we're coming back through the public hearing process [4:26] with with our second addition we um you know you know kind of kind of in in summary but the the developer was able [4:33] to you know have have conversations with with the neighbor at the at the towing company and you know there there was [4:40] some interest that you know potentially they could find a new parcel and we could add add this to to the development [4:46] um they weren't able to find anything at the time but you know we wanted to look look at um not only our own our own plat [4:53] but you know what what would happen with with that and uh so we really wanted to bring the best the best practice our [5:00] best use for for the for both parcels and you know just to give one contiguous um development that would [5:08] would work well together and um that's what we that's what we did and that's why our application is open today so I [5:16] happy to answer any questions or let you begin your public hearing process thank you [5:23] yeah questions at the moment we'll have staff present and then okay perfect [5:39] good evening chair commission members I'm Heather Boton the senior planner with the city of Lakeville the request [5:45] in front of you tonight is for property that is located north of Kenfield Trail [5:50] and east of Kenrick Avenue um the property to the South is Tera Garden [5:56] Center and to the north you're going to see the lot that was dedicated to the [6:01] city for a wetland with the first phase of antlers Ridge and then north of that [6:06] is ideal rental to the east of the site is Antlers Ridge first [6:12] edition the property is zoned rst2 which is the single and two family residential [6:17] district and it is guided medium and high density residential the preliminary plot tonight [6:25] is for 26 twin home lots there's two common lots and two outl [6:30] um then there's also the conditional use permit for the Shoreland impact plan may have noticed some information [6:38] in your packet that talked about a drainage and utility easement vacation so that I want to just make sure that [6:43] you're aware that that's going to be happening but the public hearing for that vacation is actually going to happen at the city council meeting on [6:49] February 3rd so you do not have to take formal action on that tonight uh the plat of antlers Ridge second though does [6:56] have all the required perimeter easement that's required by the city so we're just kind of vacating what was approved [7:01] with the first edition rededicating on the plat for the second [7:07] edition so what you see in front of you here is the grading plan and Landscaping [7:12] plan um the site was mass graded with the preliminary plot approval of the first edition um access to the property [7:21] right now will be from 203rd Street and Kenfield Trail in the future once the [7:26] Merck Towing property is ready to sell and subdivide you can see in the upper left hand corner that there is a ghost [7:33] plat there so the 23rd Street would continue over to Kenrick Avenue uh landscape Landscaping is [7:41] continuation of what was approved with the first edition um any Landscaping that is um installed off site will [7:47] require written permission from the property owners to install any kind of landscaping that's off this [7:53] property so the conditional use permit is for the Shoreland impact plan so what [7:59] is proposed um is consistent with the goals goals and policies of the city's comprehensive plan and it conforms with [8:05] all of our performance standards of the city code and the way that boundary is defined is you can kind of see in the [8:12] circle area here that this blue outline that is a buffer from 1,000 ft of the [8:17] ordinary High Watermark from Lake NAD so anything within that area you can see the subject property is outlined in [8:23] yellow here is within that Shoreland overlay District which then triggers the need for the Shoreland impact plan [8:30] um any areas within the Shoreland overlay is um they are required to have [8:35] a maximum 25% impervious surface for the development so the proposal is at like a little over 23% for the entire site so [8:42] they are in compliance with that requirement so staff is recommending [8:47] approval of the preliminary plat and conditional use permit that is in front of you with the nine conditions that's listed in the staff report and the [8:54] findings of fact that's listed in your packet so any questions for staff [9:01] we'll open the public hearing all right thank you um all right anyone wishing to speak [9:07] on this agenda item can please come [9:18] forward I'm chair yes seeing no one come forward I move to close the public hearing second a motion in a second to [9:26] close the public hearing um all in favor please signify by saying I I all [9:31] opposed all right the public hearing is now closed um fellow Commissioners any [9:37] [Music] [9:42] questions question mam chair yes um I did just have one question as I'm I'm [9:49] looking at this um recognizing there's been discussion with the neighbor um [9:55] about future potential to redevelop this um in in just the way this is all laying out um as I was looking at the setup [10:03] with the proposed um town home units um and the Landscaping kind of in between [10:09] what exists today is is there any firm understanding where Merck is at and potentially relocating timing anything [10:16] like that um just kind of thinking through if there should be any potential screening kind of between the business [10:22] and these town houses in the intern um yeah I my me personally I [10:28] haven't had any convers ations with with Merrick um and Dale willenbring you know [10:33] representing or owner of Tam tamarak you he's he's had the conversations I I [10:39] can't speak exactly for the conversations he had recently but um [10:44] last I heard you know you know they were interested and but I I don't know to be completely honest that's that's fair um [10:53] I'm not in a spot where I feel like I want the Planning Commission have to require a change here um with the [10:59] screening but I just asked to potentially consider it and work with staff on potentially maybe thinking [11:04] about whether some screening is appropriate in that location as we move forward sure um I will state otherwise I [11:10] I like the replat of this um kind of gets rid of that road connection to [11:15] Kenrick that was kind of a cause of some consternation once when this originally came through with all the driveways and [11:21] the road and everything all being in a pretty tight fit there I think this is a appropriate solution for the future um [11:28] and this development has multiple access points to get in and out of it um regardless of whether that connection is [11:33] there so those those all seem appropriate but again I just kind to ask maybe some consideration be given to [11:38] some screening U between those town home units on that lot a lot B location as as [11:44] this moves forward very good thank you yeah any other comments or [11:51] questions mam chair yes I would be supportive of that too I like [11:56] commissioner swensson wouldn't want to impose this as a additional condition but um would like to see that and uh [12:06] hope that you work with City staff going forward [12:13] okay all right if there's no other comments looks like we might be ready I have one other question could somebody [12:18] comment on whether it be the engineer or staff on the water drainage where it [12:25] goes uh it's kind of all downhill toward Maran [12:32] touch base on that um so basically we got we got you know water run off comes [12:37] from from the south properties Down Stone Brook and um there's a you know city pond that Outlets through the [12:43] property uh the way the way the site's been designed and graded um you know we [12:49] primarily focused in in one one large pond and every everything you know on our site except for a couple backyards [12:56] routes through that pond and um so and we we mimic existing conditions and um [13:03] certainly pass and meet all the storm water requirements for Quality Vol [13:09] volume or abstraction and rate control okay thank you [13:18] yeah are we ready for a motion Madam chair I'd make a motion to recommend [13:25] approval of antlers Ridge second edition preliminary plat and conditional use permit subject to the nine stipulations [13:32] listed in the January 16 2025 planning report and Adoption of the findings [13:38] effect second all right I have a motion and a second will you please take a roll call [13:46] vote zek I Tinsley i kza i morovich i [13:51] Zimmer I a hi Swinson hi all right and Miss Jensen when will [13:57] this go in front of City Council uh February 3rd all right well thank you [14:02] Mr Herman and best luck on the second edition of your project all right agenda item number six [14:10] this is airlake Dea this is a public hearing to consider the application of hatrick Investments LLC and Dakota [14:17] Electric Association for a preliminary and final plat for a two outlock [14:22] subdivision to be known as airlake DEA located east of Cedar Avenue and north [14:27] of 22 Street and here to give an overview um of the pro project is Jeff [14:43] shcker good evening chair members of the commission my name is Brian wman I'm with kimley horn I'm the engineer [14:49] representing both the seller or the the developer in the area current owner [14:54] hatrick Investments as well as uh Dakota Electric who's uh the the future buyer [15:00] of one of the Outlaws that's platted as part of this project um so this plat is [15:05] a continued development or expansion of what would be uh the airlake industrial [15:10] area launch Park um which is immediately West so as part of this plat we'd be [15:15] extending 222nd Street um to land which was I believe annexed into the city uh [15:22] about two years ago and we went through an a process um with hatrick Investments [15:27] at that time so this plat 222nd Street would be extended creating two out Lots [15:33] one on the North out LW a and then out LW B on the south um which Dakota Electric would be a future developer and [15:42] buyer good evening Madam chair Commissioners my name is Jeff shener and I'm representing Dakota Electric [15:47] Association um our intentions are to develop the lot on the south the out Lot B um we're very excited about that [15:54] possibility we've been in our current site for almost 5050 years we've outgrown it and we're excited about building a new headquarters so Our [16:01] intention is to fully develop this site build a new headquarters Upon Our board's approval thank you thank [16:15] you all right so as I mentioned this property is located north of 225th [16:21] Street which is a gravel road that is served and maintained by Eureka Township and it's located east of Cedar and then [16:30] um Farmington City Farmington is to the north of the site and then Township property to the east as well so this [16:38] property was annexed in the city in 2021 so time flies right so um the property [16:45] at that time then was zoned to I2 which is our general industrial district and it is guided Industrial in our [16:52] comprehensive plan so the tonight what's in front of you is kind of step one of this process [16:59] so it's just a preliminary plat for Outlaw two Outlaws for the subdivision to be known as air Lake DEA the total [17:06] site is about 115 Acres um Outlaw a on the North side is about 31.399839 [17:29] um they do meet any kind of lot size and width requirements for an industrial development um suar and water utilities [17:36] are available to the site from the west but development of the outlot would require platting into an actual lot and [17:42] block that process does trigger the public process again so at that time is when we would be actually looking at [17:49] site development and site improvements for the southern parcel for Outlaw B so tonight we're just creating the parcels [17:55] and kind of step one of this so uh St staff believes that the proposed plat [18:00] meets the goals and policies of the zoning code and the city's comprehensive plan and we are recommending approval of [18:06] the plat with the three conditions listed in the staff report thank you and this is a public hearing so [18:14] anyone wishing to speak on this agenda item can please come [18:24] forward Madam chair commission members staff thank you Sean rean [18:30] representing hatrick Investments I think 30 years ago or so is the first time I came up here we're I [18:38] too want to just tell you how excited we as owners and operators of this [18:44] industrial park that has been in development for going back to Jack matowski and then [18:52] his predecessors 70 some years well Dakota Electric here Jeff and his [18:58] associates including the CEO Ryan henches we're really complimentary we want to be [19:05] complimentary to both them and Brian and their team and the staff team for their [19:11] your efforts to Shepherd this forward I think it's goes doesn't need [19:18] to be said they're consequential representative in this whole County area and uh we're excited [19:24] to be here and thank you for your continuing efforts to keep it Ming thank [19:35] you anyone else wishing to speak on this agenda [19:41] item Madam chair seeing no one else come forward I would move to close the public [19:46] hearing second Motion in a second all those in favor of closing the public hearing please signify by saying I I all [19:53] opposed all right the public hearing is now closed uh fellow Commissioners any comments on this [20:03] one seems pretty straightforward are you ready for a motion Madam chair [20:12] yes uh motion to recommend approval of the airlake DEA preliminary plant [20:17] subject to the three stipulations listed in the January 16 2025 planning [20:22] report second miss good road would please take a roll call of members Tinsley i i i Zimmer i a i Swinson zuzek [20:37] I miss Jensen when will this one go in front of city council uh February 3rd [20:43] right well thank you so much and best of luck on your project right agenda item number seven [20:50] this is Midwest ENT a public hearing to consider a variance to exceed the number of wall signs permitted on one elevation [20:57] in the freeway Corridor District district and here to give a brief overview is Matt oi or Matthew [21:11] Oki hi there Madam chair commission City staff uh my name is Tony benusa I'm the [21:17] CEO for Midwest TNT Specialists and I wanted to thank you for your time and consideration tonight of our variance [21:24] request um first of all we're very excited to be building a clinic to serve the Lakeville Community uh so excited in [21:32] fact that we've made an initial 15-year commitment to this property which is why [21:39] it's so important for us to ensure that the facility is going to meet our needs uh from the beginning and that is the [21:46] reason for our signage variance request I've tried to be respectful of your time and summarizing um our position and uh [21:53] our stated objectives in a letter to you all but in summary I think the the fact [21:59] of our business is that uh we have many different business units and um business [22:06] divisions that are not intuitive to our consumers and as such it's important for [22:11] people to ensure that they know that they are in the right location and at the right building and while a monument [22:17] sign helps when you're driving around a development is not uh necessarily readily apparent that that is the right [22:23] location it also helps people to understand exactly where they should be enter in parking so on and so forth and [22:30] I think this is not un unlike uh other retail-based businesses that might have [22:35] service line uh signage indicating some of the services they offer as I drive by the Lakeville Walmart I see that they [22:43] have an additional grocery sign or home in uh Pharmacy to indicate to their consumers these are services that they [22:50] offer that may not exist at every single Walmart so with that um that's the the [22:55] basis for our variance and I appreciate your time and consideration I'd be happy to answer any followup questions that you have thank [23:09] you good evening Commissioners this is a sign variance [23:18] request just a recap on the location the Midwest ENT uh building is currently [23:24] under construction uh they are in the Sundance Lakeville uh plat uh in their [23:29] particular lot is located north of 162nd Street and West of Buck Hill [23:35] Road uh they are Zone C3 commercial um due to the site's proximity to I35 they [23:42] are within the freeway Corridor District which is an overlay District that is within our sign ordinance only um on [23:50] this map it's it's illustrated by this black and white dash line um and the [23:55] properties that are within that District have additional sign allowances um so for example the Midwest [24:03] ENT site is within that District they have larger wall sign and Monument sign [24:09] allowances um and then the line I can get my mouse to work here does cross uh [24:16] 46 and then follow Kenrick Avenue South so for instance the moments memory care [24:22] facility which is at this corner would would be within uh the freeway Corridor [24:27] district and have that additional signage allowance but Bolero McDonald's and the office building that are just to [24:34] the west of Kenrick are not within that coridor that freeway Corridor District um so they would fall under just the [24:40] standard signs allowances for the C3 District um this is uh elevation plans [24:48] I'll get a little bit more closeup on the next one um the signs are proposed for the west elevation that is the the [24:55] elevation we are discussing at this point um they also have a sign on the East Elevation they are allowed a sign [25:01] on two elevations because they are a corner property so the the sign that is on the East Elevation as well as the [25:07] monument sign are both uh in compliance with our our sign ordinance there's a [25:13] little bit of a uh enlargement of that west elevation um so they are proposing their [25:21] primary sign here which is the Midwest ENT and then they have uh four other um [25:29] smaller signs to um that are listed down here for their different um services or [25:36] or activities that are included within their site uh they are also showing some [25:41] vinyl um entrance signs above the entrance staff has typically um we've [25:48] allowed those in other similar circumstances and unfortunately the best comparisons I can come up with are are [25:54] more automobile related but for instance at a car wash there's enter and exit above certain doors or at an auto repair [26:02] place um one may have a service and another one's got one lane strictly for oil change so um those kinds of things [26:10] that are are non-commercial more directional in nature that we have typically um allowed just to help folks [26:18] make sure they get in the right spot so the the signs that I have listed here do [26:24] not include those entrance signs it also does not include the address sign or the address number here we don't [26:30] consider that a sign we don't count it against the total as it is required to be on the building and there are certain [26:37] size requirements for fire code and things like that so um the building address would be allowed regardless of [26:44] of the outcome of the variance um and then just a closeup of that East Elevation with the wall sign [26:51] uh4 Square ft their freestanding sign here 140 square ft um as I said earlier [26:59] both of them are in compliance with our ordinance um this is the uh west elevation that [27:07] they uh exhibit that they provided for us and then the east side with the the [27:13] sign in the the monument sign in the distance and then the site plan just as [27:18] a refresher this is the building's location we've got Buck Hill Road County [27:23] Road 46 so again it's a corner property it does allow those signs on two sides [27:30] um and then the one thing I just wanted to Quick go through I have my information here um we [27:37] did prepare findings of fact and and variances as you're probably aware we [27:42] don't bring a lot of those forward um the ordinance does require that in order [27:47] for staff and the council to support a variance the request needs to meet the [27:53] threshold of a practical difficulty and so the review criteria that are listed [27:58] within the ordinance um are within that uh findings of fact and I just wanted to go over those quickly the first is that [28:06] the variance would be consistent with the comprehensive plan that one's not applicable the comprehensive plan [28:11] doesn't address signs um the second is that the variance would be in harmony with the general [28:16] purposes and intent of the title um our finding is that the applicant is [28:22] requesting five wall signs for one elevation of a single tenant building which is not consistent with with the [28:28] surrounding commercial uses and other single tenant commercial buildings of a [28:34] similar size in Lakeville and therefore it's not in harmony uh Mr Bona mentioned [28:39] the Walmart um further south on I35 that does have additional signage um it is [28:45] also within the freeway Corridor District the additional signs are granted because of the size of the [28:51] building there is a threshold I believe of 45,000 Square ft and um above that [28:57] the buildings are allowed additional signage this building is about 14,000 sare ft so it it isn't close to that [29:04] threshold that would allow some additional signs um the next criteria is that the [29:10] plight of the landowner is due to circumstances unique to the property and not created by the landowner uh staff [29:18] does not find that there's any unique circumstances to the parcel or practical difficulties that would warrant a [29:24] variance to permit additional signs uh that the purpose of the variants is not exclusively economic [29:31] considerations don't feel that one's applicable here uh that the granting of the variants will not alter the [29:37] essential character of the neighborhood in which the parcel of land is located uh other commercial uses in the vicinity [29:43] of the site have the same or smaller sign standards and all have complied with the zoning [29:49] ordinance finally that the requested variances the minimum action required to [29:54] eliminate the Practical difficulty staff finds that there's no pra practical difficulty for signs on this new [30:00] construction building uh while the total area of the proposed signs does not exceed the size allowances of the [30:07] freeway Corridor District the applicants proposal for five signs is well beyond the one while sign permitted in that [30:14] District um and then I guess there is one more uh variances may not be approved for any use not allowed um [30:21] under that title for that zone again that one's not applicable as signs are a permitted use permitted accessories [30:28] excuse me in that C3 District so staff does recommend denial of this variance [30:34] um and then approval of the findings of fact this is a public hearing and I'll stand for any questions you may [30:42] have anyone wishing to speak on this agenda item can please come forward [31:01] Madam chair yes make you wait a little bit um motion to close the public hearing second the [31:09] second to close the public hearing all those in favor please signify by saying I I I all opposed all right the public [31:15] hearing is now closed fellow Commissioners yes madame chair can I [31:22] just get some clarification so this is one business with other businesses under [31:30] it yeah so technically we are a single tenant under the lease okay we have [31:38] um full tax IDs for the businesses that will uh be operating in within this [31:46] building we have some of the brands and the doing business as names that are [31:52] registered with the state of Minnesota fall under one tax it [31:59] and one of the doing business as names falls under a separate tax ID internally [32:05] as an organization we do cost allocations and keep separate accounting [32:11] to ensure that the separate business units are financially viable [32:17] independently and I think that's what I was trying to allude to when I made the comment that [32:24] uh retail space we operate like a multi-tenant organization in a single [32:32] building in a retail space that would be multi-tenant of the same size would have [32:39] much more signage allowed than we are afforded and so I apologize for not being clear I saw that in staff's report [32:45] and I appreciated that uh distinction um we use multiple entrances and even [32:52] within those entrances we have a separate vble that will then have directional signage to point people toward towards the right service line [32:59] that they will be seeking from from our organization I hope that answers your question it does and then just a [33:06] clarification the monument sign that will have all the other entities on the monument sign there are the service [33:15] lines that we have um so I would tell you that our Monument sign is not our [33:22] our desired path forward but knowing but knowing that um the city has a specific [33:29] set of requirements we have taken the opportunity to utilize the monument sign to advertise our service lines or Our [33:36] Brands in um in an attempt to to try to [33:43] make it as clear as possible had we not already built the monument sign I would gladly forego that for an approval of [33:50] our signage on our building um but I think what we've tried to [33:57] submit incoming under in the total allowed square footage is a reasonable [34:04] compromise to achieve our goals but still try to comply with I think the aesthetic feel [34:13] that the city of Lakeville is trying to achieve and I think it's still very tasteful but will allow people to [34:20] understand our building and this is very consistent with what we have in other municipalities so the entrances that are [34:28] separate do they have different Suite numbers or it's still single use or [34:34] single tenant okay say correct thank you much separate lobbies [34:41] okay same thing thank you yes um [34:47] Mr are you mrki I'm Mr benusa this is okay I think it's you I still didn't [34:55] catch your name but anyway it's Anthony bonuso okay um the five signs that you're [35:02] looking for uh are they in contrast are they they're all similar that's I mean [35:08] what's your schematic for it will any of them be lighted or have any um dancing [35:14] milk cartons I just had to get that line in um and then if you are coming for a [35:22] particular service and you go to the wrong one how do you get from the wrong [35:27] one to the next one that you need to be at yeah that's a great question [35:33] um I know that there's a rendering that's submitted I don't know if there's a way for [35:40] me can I also ask a question about the dancing milk cartons and if that is a [35:46] reference to something that I'm unaware of um yes we're trying to [35:52] maintain this is just a quick backstory I'll try to be respectful over your time actually as we do business business we [35:58] have five different business entities that we do business as and we've tried to create distinct Brands as we've [36:04] brought on different service lines so we actually have Midwest facial Plastics Midwest ENT Midwest allergy and asthma [36:11] Midwest hearing uh and Midwest um face and cosmetic skincare we have tried to [36:19] consolidate this down so that we don't have Midwest and and we're not using [36:25] branded logos everywhere we just want people to understand that associated with the Midwest core Midwest brand that [36:31] they are in the right place when they're coming for their Allergy and Asthma care so to to off to indicate those service [36:38] lines we have used the same um sign type [36:43] face and uh and size and color for all of the service lines except for the face [36:50] cosmetic skincare which is its own its separate brand um they are back lit I [36:58] believe face lit no dancing no CH M Keef architect Synergy architecture [37:07] studio and represented for Davis the developer and owner of the construction what we've designed is with [37:13] the letters they've got in the daytime it looks like a solid [37:20] face or you know metal letter but they're everyone is kind of the new thing so I night the faces of them will [37:27] light up but during the day they're kind of a solid color that aesthetically is connected to the other [37:34] finishes and materials of the building but there are no dancing signs there's no movement signs I I mean we laugh but [37:41] a lot of healthcare wants 15 minutes you know waiting or something like um you know display signage that [37:49] tricks every you T you know well and I'm for a followup I'm [37:55] thinking of the the Viking stadium and the Twin City orthopedic [38:01] sign that everyone complained about because it was so overly lit so I mean they deserve a medal for getting that [38:08] signage on that possess but with this one we as we've [38:15] done in other municipalities is we understand we're not really overpower the [38:29] the structure thank [38:38] you um kind of what commissioner Zimmer was [38:44] referring to the dancing milk jugs is we every year go through a ordinance [38:50] update process and uh in the 10 years I have been on this Planning Commission [38:56] there hasn't been a single single one of those that doesn't have an update to the sign ordinance and so we continually [39:04] hear um from businesses from the public on ways that we can update that and it [39:11] uh the dancing milk jugs come from you know those uh electronic display signs [39:18] which we used to prohibit now we allow them um we used to have very strict [39:23] regulations on how quickly they can change that has evolved um when we hear from uh businesses [39:32] on uh areas where we might need a change [39:38] our city staff does a really great job of kind of taking that considering are [39:43] there going to be other businesses where this situation might arise [39:49] um I am supportive of what the staff uh wrote in the planning report um with [39:56] variances our hands are really tied they are in state law that uh every one of the [40:03] criteria have to be met um I agree with City staff in my looking [40:10] at it my reading of it that all of those criteria are met so I don't feel like um [40:17] we have any other option but to deny the variance but since we do this ordinance [40:23] process um every year you know I would encourage you to to keep dialoguing with City staff um if they believe that you [40:31] know this you know we could come up with a solution um that can find its way in a [40:36] future ordinance update I you know they will bring it before us we'll have another public hearing um we've had many [40:45] people come before us with with requests that uh unfort it's unfortunate it's no [40:51] for now um but because it's really important that our ordinances is for all [40:58] of our businesses everyone feels that they get the same opportunity and they're treated fairly so if if changes [41:04] need to be made that opportunity should be open to everyone else so um you know [41:10] that's another reason why I don't usually like variances because you know [41:15] we're just addressing a problem for for one individual so um I uh am not [41:22] supportive of the variants and and plan to vote no but I really do appreciate um [41:27] all the work you've done on this building really excited to have you be here in Lakeville um all of the services [41:35] that you guys provide are things our community definitely needs and wants so um really happy to have you here and um [41:43] just keep dialoguing with City staff we did the [41:51] L nine different very similar to Mid had nine different special [42:16] now and signage discussion it's almost the second [42:23] discussion it might not surprise you but in three of the other commun that we have built in we have requested signed [42:31] variances in two of them all of our buildings look at this [42:36] at this point and I think I under I completely understand um the structure [42:42] and the process and the reason behind it um but much like you like to provide a [42:48] consistent experience for your constituents we like to provide a very consistent experience for our patients [42:55] and the members of your community who as we do the ZIP code analysis are coming to see us in Woodberry in Badness [43:03] Heights even and in Egan right now because we're not here we just want to [43:08] make sure that they have the same experience when they see us in their own Community as they do when they come to [43:14] see us [43:20] elsewhere yes so question for planning staff just is kind of considering [43:26] everything that's it's been said and discussed here um so we're in this box because it's a single tenant in the [43:32] building correct correct so if this were a multi-tenant building would they be [43:38] allowed to do something similar to this the ordinance does address um multiple [43:43] occupancy commercial buildings um but it does uh [43:48] require um tenants to have an exclusive um entrance in other words each business [43:56] has their own space and those businesses then get their sign the uh Alina medical [44:03] office that was mentioned off of 185th um that's the large three four [44:09] story um building it does have signs uh for several of the tenants in there uh [44:14] we do also have a provision that um and it was kind of geared more towards um [44:20] Office Buildings uh or situations uh like that where there is one um single [44:27] entrance rather than each tenant having their own so when those tenants have [44:32] more than they don't have an exclusive exterior entrance but they have more than 20% of the lease space then our [44:39] ordinance does allow um that business to have um a sign on the exterior um but [44:47] again those were um you know separate different you know clinics from [44:54] the how it was explained to me and we did look at the floor plans and and do those [44:59] measurements um and they were you know separate spaces within that building and [45:05] so the the signs were issued they did meet our ordinance requirements [45:11] so i' I have a question with that um you said 20 if they have 20% of the lease [45:18] space the net leasable area of the building and it looks like on here like there's a separate entrance for the spa [45:25] and a separate entrance for the main entrance yeah that's how they have their [45:33] setup I don't know if there's connection I've not seen a floor plan I don't know if there's connection once you get [45:39] inside can't be connection or not um I you know if if the spa area is a [45:46] completely separate and there's not you know once you get inside you can move [45:51] through the whole building you know then perhaps we can consider that that may meet the the requirements for a separate [45:59] sign but if it's simply two separate entrances but once you're in the building it's one large space um in my [46:06] opinion that does not meet the the our definition or our intent of separate [46:11] commercial [46:22] spaces so ideally on this facade we could put a [46:30] 10ft tall by 15t sign box with all those names in One [46:36] sign box and that would me code okay [46:43] question Madam chair that that was exactly the question I was just going to ask staff was um I'm hearing the numbers [46:50] are below the 150 ft that we allow in total basically for all these proposed signs if they're rearranged in some way [46:57] shape or fashion I mentioned that option within the staff report that if they you know put the signs in a in a [47:05] different uh Arrangement and we can put you know one box around there and that [47:10] box is 150 square feet that is how we have traditionally and I've Been Working [47:16] On signs for almost 20 years in Lakeville um so we've been pretty consistent over that that time [47:25] so mam M um in light of What U Miss Jensen had said can we ask the [47:32] applicant is it separate entrances or Once you walk in are you able to just [47:38] walk like is it an inside mall it's a good question um if you are [47:45] a patient or a client consumer walking into the spa entrance it is going to be [47:50] a holy separate experience that's partitioned off with a a fixed wall and [47:56] it's not until you get to the very back of the building where our Clinic staff are going to be moving through that you [48:02] would have um the inability to see a connection between the two businesses but it is actually designed to be a [48:09] separate fit feel so that the patient or client in that case is going to have a a [48:15] wholly separate experience from the time they enter to the time that they then leave they will not see a connection [48:22] between uh the organizations the main entry for is um an a VES that splits in two [48:33] directions and the same is uh essentially true of [48:39] the the two different directions so you have a more medically based side that is [48:48] um our hearing side our ENT side and our Asthma and Allergy side and within that [48:55] they get separated out but they are still part of a larger common area the uh the facial Plastics [49:04] medical side we see a lot of Mo patients Mo reconstruction and medically based facial Plastics reconstruction is a [49:11] separate and distinct area within uh from that other medical side as well so [49:18] there is there are there is Connection in the building um but we've tried to [49:24] keep that mostly for staff between three distinct [49:30] segs thank you yeah I'll add on that a little bit my son is a patient at Midwest ENT and Egan um and going in the [49:38] vestibules are split so you can either go this way to go to one side or you go this way to the ENT and like he [49:45] mentioned I've never even seen like the Spa stuff [49:52] um and then when you get called back there's like a line of rooms right and [49:58] so you're going into a room and that's where you could walk through but as a [50:04] patient you really wouldn't go to like the other end um and you're being escorted and you're [50:11] being escorted yes by staff so like they'll call you back and then they bring you to the room and you're in the room and when you leave you [50:19] leave I'm I mean I will say I found the signage helpful when I went because the [50:25] one in Egan is behind Chick-fil-A and it's kind of hard to find um and if you could please get Dr Zachary to come out [50:30] of retirement I would appreciate it oh so do I so much so much [50:39] okay yes I just have a quick question for staff is there a way since we've now [50:46] learned that the spa is actually a separate entrance [50:52] separate to clients customers patients whatever you call them um is there a way [50:59] to have signage on at least that portion I think it would need to be a completely [51:05] separate it sounds like from the patient customer side it's separated but for the [51:10] employees it's still um shared space so [51:16] not a door for employees to separate them away from the other practices [51:28] that's for Anthony or that's [51:34] okay I mean as a as a design process there are definitely separate rating rooms there's [51:40] actually five as you go across for all the different sectors they're kind of sectioned out but once you get back [51:46] there's the staff members handle multiple departments on a daily basis with different patients and there's also [51:53] some you know one patient for ENT might to get to the hearing side so there are [51:58] definitely connections just like in a an Al clinic or a Fairview Clinic and stuff like that but it is separated for [52:06] patient experience with some of the lobbies and that is again kind of the front entrance of why we have two [52:11] different you know entry doors and stuff like that so okay thank you it's intentionally designed but I will say [52:18] flat out like they they're connect right like as an architect or even as an exiting purpose plan like the whole [52:26] Clinic acts as one when you're talking about an occupancy point of view okay [52:31] thank you yeah I just think from from my [52:37] standpoint just this is a statement of position is I I'm sympathetic to your [52:44] issue um and find the Aesthetics of your building would work well with the [52:49] signage you show here I think we need to be careful from our standpoint that once we Grant a variance for something like [52:56] this if we have somebody else come along that wants to do the same thing but is a [53:02] little bit more loud um I think we need to have a little bit more thought than to Grant a [53:09] variance today and I think as uh the other commissioner had indicated is you know [53:16] let's let's think about this for a little bit and see if we can improve it make adjustments as opposed to doing something tonight that we may not [53:23] necessarily find appealing at another time yeah and uh thank you madam chair and [53:31] yeah just to build on that I you know our hands are also somewhat tied with [53:36] the variance process because what we have to consider is the variance that's [53:42] in front of us and it's a very specific process that's laid out in statute and there's an application for it and everything so there's not really an [53:48] opportunity to kind of you know work on this on the Fly [53:54] where there are some other projects when there someone's coming in for a you know preliminary plat where we can make [54:01] amendments and add conditions are we're kind of limited to [54:07] addressing the issue that's in front of us and there's not a lot of latitude [54:13] that we can do to make changes on that so um once again I just say like you [54:18] know I I really do appreciate you coming in and I I understand what you're trying [54:25] to get at but um a variance isn't the the appropriate vehicle to to try to do [54:35] it so I I took the time today and and drove past your vness Heights facility I [54:41] having to work up in that part of the metro and take a look at that and also went past the Egan facility and and just got a feel for how this looks and you [54:49] know all all in all I appreciate the thought that's put into The Branding and [54:54] the way it looks and I'm sympathetic to the of what you're trying to do with this and it's it's all very tasteful and [55:00] it looks very very nice um but also I'm [55:05] I'm looking at her variance criteria and understanding what the requirements are [55:11] there um and and this board this commission has taken that very seriously in the past in terms of what we do with [55:17] variances and that type of thing I appreciate you mentioning that variances may have been part of the process on some of these other buildings as well um [55:25] with all that being said you know positionally I'm in a spot where I feel like I can't support the variant here in [55:31] front of us tonight um that being said um if we had other conversation I I know [55:37] timing is of the essence in all of this and thinking about that but um I would be open to conversation as a commission [55:43] and as a body with City staff talking about how can we maybe do this um also just again going to point out that hey [55:50] there is an opportunity here maybe to rearrange the signage a little bit um and meet that that box of what um we [55:57] currently require um so that's that's where I come out on this um and with [56:03] that I'm not going to be voting in support of the variance [56:12] request Madam chair are you ready for a motion I think [56:17] so uh Madam chair I motion to recommend denial of the Midwest ENT sign variance [56:24] to exceed one wall sign on a single elevation in the freeway Corridor district and adopt the findings of [56:31] fact second I have a motion on a second um [56:36] can we please have a roll call vote kala I Movic I [56:45] Zimmer I twinson I [56:52] Tinsley all right um we really appreciate appreciate you coming to Lakeville I'm sorry that it didn't work [56:58] out in your favor um right now but like the other Commissioners have said please continue to work with City staff and [57:05] hopefully hopefully we can find something um that works for [57:13] both thank you um and with [57:23] that uh the meeting is aded