[0:02] 360 Communities delivers safety and stability that improves lives We've been doing this for over 50 years one [0:09] relationship at a time Our free programs prevent homelessness address hunger [0:14] boost high school graduation rates and foster healthy relationships We are the only provider in Dakota County offering [0:21] safe shelter and services for victims of domestic and sexual violence Get help or [0:26] give help today and make a meaningful difference for yourself and your community 360 communities Help in the [0:33] moment Hope for the future Well welcome Um this is new Everybody was actually [0:39] seated Um normally I have to corral and argue and get people to get seated So this is great Um I'm Jeff Mortonson I'm [0:46] the president and CEO at 360 communities And on behalf of this incredible [0:51] organization uh welcome to the 39th annual domestic and sexual violence [0:57] awareness lunchon um from its humble beginnings Some of you will remember [1:02] this uh but don't date yourself when a few people had the courage to get [1:08] together and discuss these difficult topics over a brown bag lunch to this incredibly full room of [1:16] people uh here to support this really difficult uh issue and to get [1:23] educated to to learn how to respond better and to support the work Um thank [1:30] you for showing up for being here today uh and for engaging in the community It [1:35] is significant to thank you for that Domestic and sexual violence remain [1:41] pervasive issues in our state and in our local communities In Dakota County alone [1:48] more than five incidents are reported daily 300 people gain immediate shelter [1:54] and safety at our Lewis House emergency shelter uh at least half of those residents are children and on an annual [2:01] basis there's 500 at least 500 people seeking shelter Domestic violence is a [2:07] leading cause of homelessness among women Additionally as an organization in this [2:13] part of our our uh program area we help over 2,000 people on an outreach basis [2:20] who are dealing with domestic and sexual violence that don't necessarily need a shelter but they still need safety [2:25] planning and resources Um this is an issue that deserves attention by all of [2:31] us So thank you for being here After lunch we've got a great panel Um I want [2:37] to give a shout out to Annne Averil who's really taken a big lead in helping to champion [2:44] this She leads our violence prevention and intervention area Uh but we've got a panel and they're going to be talking [2:50] specifically about coercive control And coercive control is the invisible chain [2:56] that binds a victim to their abuser It is a subtle and very powerful form of [3:04] abuse that strips an individual's autonomy and selfworth So you're going to hear from a number of different uh [3:10] perspectives in that space and learn and get educated about course of control But [3:15] first I want you to join me in thanking the sponsors and supporters that uh make [3:21] today a success We have a presenting sponsor Sterling State Bank who has been [3:26] a presenting sponsor for many years and we've got a good cohort here from them So thank [3:37] you Got our gold sponsor the Lakeville Public Safety [3:45] Foundation And we have two silver sponsors Squeaky Services and Two Men in [3:50] a Truck So thank you sponsors [3:56] I also want to thank Brackets Crossing Their their staff uh and the leadership [4:01] here always do an incredible job uh with with these types of full rooms So thank [4:07] you Brackets Crossing And thank you also to Flora etc [4:14] They uh provided the um centerpieces [4:20] Peggy Flanigan is Minnesota's 50th Lieutenant Governor and a member of the White Earth Band of Ojiway She is the [4:26] highest ranking Native American woman uh elected to executive office in the US [4:32] Her work centers on her work centers on advancing equity for children working [4:39] families communities of color indigenous communities and historically underserved motans She co-chairs the young women's [4:46] initiative prioritizes the state's homelessness response as chair of the Minnesota of inter agency council on [4:52] homelessness and has helped secure key legislative wins including creating the nation's first missing and murdered [4:59] indigenous relatives office expanding support for families and investing in affordable housing child care and [5:05] community projects led by and for people of color Thank you for being here I welcome [5:11] you up to the stage [5:20] Well good morning Uh Buju Peggy Flanigan and Dishnakaz [5:25] Guea and Guabagan Gendo Uh my name's Peggy [5:31] Flanigan My Ojiway name is speaks in a loud and clear voicewoman I'm a member [5:36] Yeah you can laugh It's all right My husband was the least surprised uh to [5:41] know that's uh um I'm a member of White Earth My family's the Wolf Clan and the role of our clan is to ensure that we're [5:47] not leaving anyone behind Um which is why I feel like I am very good company this morning Uh thank you Jeff and to uh [5:56] 360 communities and for all of you who are here today survivors advocates [6:02] community members change makers to reflect and to remember and to recommit [6:08] ourselves to ending domestic and sexual violence especially as April is recognized as sexual assault awareness [6:14] month As we mark the 39th year of this vital event I'm reminded that real [6:20] change doesn't come from moments alone It comes from movements And this [6:26] room represents a powerful one of movement that is rooted in truth and [6:32] resilience and the belief that everyone deserves to live free from fear and free [6:38] from harm We know that domestic and sexual violence are not just personal tragedies [6:44] They are systemic issues that touch every corner of our state [6:49] disproportionately affecting indigenous women women of color members of the LGBTQ plus community and those living at [6:56] the intersections of multiple oppressions We also know that violence doesn't always look the way we think it [7:03] does In Minnesota and across the country advocates are lifting up the urgent need [7:08] to recognize and respond to coercive control The invisible chains of [7:14] manipulation fear and domination that can bind a survivor long before or after [7:20] physical violence occurs Coercive control can look like a partner [7:26] isolating someone from family community monitoring their movements controlling [7:31] their finances or threatening to take away their children It is insidious It is dangerous [7:40] and it is too often dismissed because it can be subtle or perhaps lack visible [7:46] signs of physical abuse But survivors know and advocates know [7:52] that coercive control can be just as lifealtering just as devastating and [7:58] just as lethal That's why we must expand our understanding of what safety really [8:04] means It means reor recognizing power and control in all of its [8:09] forms It means believing survivors when they tell their stories It means funding [8:16] culturally specific services investing in prevention and working across systems [8:22] to respond with compassion and not judgment And it means updating our laws [8:27] and policies to ensure that coercive control is not ignored but named [8:33] addressed and stopped This is personal for so many of [8:39] us It is personal for me I am a survivor and I'm a child [8:47] witness Coercive control was often used in our [8:53] home I remember my mom saying to [9:00] me "I'm sorry I couldn't hang in there until you graduated from college." [9:08] These are the kind of conversations These are the kind of internal battles that people are facing [9:15] oftentimes alone and in silence every single [9:21] day And I know that for my mom she was embarrassed She felt [9:30] shame And for a long time I internalized that too [9:35] But what is clear to me is that in this moment making myself or making ourselves [9:44] as small as possible doesn't serve [9:49] anyone and so that is why I am so grateful that you are in this space and [9:55] to the courageous panelists who are ready to come up here and to tell your story thank you [10:02] It matters tremendously because we think that this kind of violence and control [10:08] somehow stays behind closed doors It does not It spills out into our neighborhoods [10:15] into our communities overall And so gathering today recommitting [10:20] ourselves across jurisdictions across party lines across lived experience is [10:26] one of the most powerful things that we can do in this moment so people know that they are not alone [10:34] Together we are building a Minnesota where survivors are heard supported and [10:40] protected Not just in times of crisis but every single [10:46] day Thank you for continuing to lead the way Let's keep going Let's keep showing [10:51] up for each other for survivors for our children for a future [10:58] free from violence Thank you [11:08] All right Hello everyone Welcome to our event and thank you all for being here [11:13] Uh as Jeff said my name is Ann Averil I'm the violence prevention and intervention program manager here at 360 [11:20] communities And we're here today to talk about domestic violence and sexual violence And these issues can happen in [11:29] unique ways One thing that we find to be consistent is the presence of coercive [11:35] control That's something we've kind of already brought up and talked about so far Um but coercive control is a pattern [11:43] of abusive behavior that intimidates humiliates isolates and creates fear in [11:50] victim survivors Different studies have shown that between 65 and 95% of victim survivors [11:58] experience coercive control And as complicated as domestic violence is on its own it becomes far [12:06] more complex when children are involved as an estimated 30 to 60% of people who [12:12] use abuse also abuse children in the home or use children as an abuse [12:18] mechanism which can leave longlasting impacts and effects on [12:23] kids I'm sure that many of you have seen or heard of the power and control wheel [12:29] This is a tool that was developed right here in Minnesota in Duth uh uh quite a [12:34] long time ago but outlines the different forms of coercive control and tactics [12:40] that abusers use to gain or maintain power and control uh in an abusive [12:46] relationship The tactics that you can see on the wheel are [12:51] intimidation emotional abuse isolation minimizing denying and blaming [12:59] using children using privilege economic abuse and threats and coercion And then [13:06] you can see on the outer ring of the wheel physical violence and sexual [13:11] violence These tactics can happen independently They often happen [13:17] simultaneously Uh so victim survivors might experience one or all of the [13:22] things that you see on the wheel and happen over a period of time which is what is known as the cycle of abuse And [13:30] what we know about this cycle is that over time the uh time in between each [13:36] phase of the cycle gets shorter and shorter because things seem to increase [13:41] in frequency and intensity over time and it's often paired with the threat of [13:47] or the use of physical or sexual violence Generally these tactics are why [13:54] people might stay in abusive relationships why they might go back after leaving Um and they also create [14:02] misunderstandings among community members and sometimes professionals [14:07] um and sometimes contribute to victim blaming in our communities The tactics of course of control and [14:14] power and control are hard to see They're hard to understand And one [14:20] survivor said in a powerful statement that the chains of abuse and power and control are invisible And that's [14:26] something we've already heard here today as well I am excited to introduce you to [14:32] our panel of speakers Um we this is a complicated and complex [14:39] issue and so our hope is to just unpack this a little bit more Um each of our [14:45] panelists today have experience and see coercive control and abuse show up in [14:51] their work on a daily basis and so excited to offer a variety of perspectives for all of you to learn [14:59] about and think about um as you're here with us today [15:04] So I will introduce the panelists and then we'll have them come up Our first panelist is Hector Matas Castillo Hector [15:12] is the executive director at ASC Psychological Services He is currently a [15:18] doctoral candidate in clinical psychology with a specialty in forensic [15:23] psychology He is the mental health consultant and crisis negotiator for the Minneapolis Police Department SWAT [15:30] crisis negotiation team As a multilingual multicultural therapist Hector works with domestic [15:38] abuse from the micro and macro level Our next panelist is Dr Shannon [15:46] Gekki Watson Shannon owns SGW Psychological [15:51] Services which is an independent private practice right here in Dakota County [15:57] She focuses on treating the after effects of domestic violence and she is [16:03] a psychologist and a professional trainer for mental health professionals [16:08] lawyers and domestic violence shelter advocates And also prior to entering the [16:13] mental health field Shannon worked as an advocate at Lewis House Um so [16:20] welcome Our next panelist is Britney Pucket Britney is the senior staff nurse [16:26] with the Henipin assault response team or heart at Henipin Healthcare Since [16:32] 2015 she has seen over 550 patients and she is a certified sexual assault nurse [16:39] examiner for both pediatrics and adolescents and adults As a forensic [16:46] nurse Britney provides acute exams for sexual assault interpersonal violence [16:51] sexual exploitation and trafficking victim survivors And our last panelist is Jess [16:59] Palian Jess is the policy program manager at Violence-Free Minnesota He [17:06] works as a legislative advocate for the coalition helping to communicate the needs of survivors and advocates to the [17:13] legislature and communicate legislative updates to the coalition Jess holds a bachelor's degree [17:21] in biology and a law degree both from the University of St Thomas He has [17:26] experience as a housing attorney for Mid Minnesota Legal Aid and as a court clerk in Henipin County So please welcome our [17:34] panelists I will ask them to come up now All right Thank you all for being here Um just for all of you to know we [17:42] have kind of a Q&A style panel So we have a set list of questions that I will [17:48] ask the panelists and hopefully again shed light and uh dig into coercive [17:54] control The questions that we prepared are questions that are relevant to the [17:59] work that they do questions that we hear in advocacy often about this topic and I [18:05] think just kind of general things that sometimes come up when we are trying to understand about uh domestic abuse or [18:12] coercive control So our first question is for [18:18] Hector Uh Hector what do you see as the root causes of controlling behavior and [18:25] are there any predictors so there are root causes uh when you [18:30] start looking at uh why people would use these behaviors One of the biggest ones is a personality that's insecure Uh they [18:38] don't they don't feel like they belong many places or they don't feel like they have a lot of control Eventually it [18:44] starts to develop in sort of into kind of an anxiety right you have to control everything around you Where's a [18:50] saber-tooth tiger everything's a saber-tooth tiger And then it can progress into uh behaviors that are more [18:57] um the word would be mocking right the dark tribe If you've ever read that that [19:03] uh you know the personality uh portrait of that um and then it becomes a little [19:08] bit more insidious right this is a person who out of a fear of losing control over whoever it is or whatever [19:14] it is that they are trying to control will start to do things that make it look like I'm not controlling I'm caring [19:21] I'm loving Uh I'm I'm I'm looking out for you This these are areas that you don't know anything about Um and then [19:28] other forms of u of control can pop in Like the one that's most commonly uh [19:34] used is gaslighting right but that's only one of many different behaviors Um and so there are predictors An [19:41] individual who has either been a witness or themselves experienced domestic violence in their home uh as a child Uh [19:48] and then that person grows up and either repeats the behaviors or looks for people that they can control You find a [19:54] lot of people who are codependent Um uh you know in codependence anonymous for example they call it a codependent [20:01] reactive moment when somebody starts trying to control whoever the subject or whoever the subject is or object in a [20:07] way Um some of the biggest predictors of corner research are uh in relationships [20:14] where uh they're married and heterosexual marriage the uh wife has [20:20] two or three children Uh husband higher levels of degrees uh and then the use of [20:26] alcohol uh and increasing alcohol consumption Um as well as a lot of other [20:32] even higher predictors such as personality disorders What you have to understand is that even though there are [20:37] there may be mental disorders they're not the reason for it This is a behavior that is chosen by the person who's using [20:44] it Um but we do see that these behaviors are often paired up with personality [20:50] disorders The biggest of which is obsessivempulsive personality disorder um amongst others [20:59] Great Thank you Um I like what you said about kind of what what is not the cause because I think sometimes we've seen [21:06] that mental health is kind of viewed as the cause of domestic abuse Yeah common [21:14] almost Yeah almost common Um our next question is for Shannon Uh [21:21] how does coercive control affect mental health uh specifically victim survivors [21:27] Great question Oh there we go Great question I actually want to start with a quote uh from Judith Herman Uh this [21:35] comes from her book Trauma or from her book Truth and Repair Uh most people are [21:40] familiar with her book Trauma and Recovery and she has a secondary book out now called Trauma or uh Truth and [21:47] Repair If you haven't checked it out I highly urge you the first third of the book actually is on coercive control And [21:54] on page 28 she says "Violence does not need to be used often It merely needs to [21:59] be convincing when it is used." And I think that's a really important thing in light of everything that we're talking [22:05] about here In fact she goes on to quote a CIA manual for the interrogation of [22:12] detainees that specifically states "The threat of coercion usually weakens or [22:17] destroys resistance more effectively than the coercion itself." And that's why we're up here and why we're talking [22:23] about coercive control today because that is what is true The threat often is more effective than the actual coercion [22:31] itself So that threat has consequences There are so many mental health [22:37] consequences that come from it Uh one of those comes in the form of emotional consequences A big emotional consequence [22:44] that we see is shame Shame is uh shame [22:49] as an emotion is actually really really healthy for us to experience The reason we have shame the reason shame developed [22:56] and evolved in us is because it helps us to grow and develop Well when it stops growing in the developing for us then we [23:03] get into what we call toxic shame Toxic shame is where we're stuck It's like we're stuck in quicksand We can't move [23:09] forward Coercive control contributes to that quicksand It's that toxic shame And [23:15] that is very much a real consequence of coercive control Another emotional consequence [23:21] that we see is fear Fear very much comes from coercive control I have worked with [23:27] many many survivors who tell me that they will see a their partner give them a look from across the room and that [23:35] look to them means a lot more uh because it's a threat Going back to the power [23:40] and control wheel Ann that you had up there uh the power and control wheel states those threats are very very [23:47] effective So getting that look from across the room that nobody else would know what that means that survivor [23:54] absolutely knows what that means and is known that to keep that person in line That fear is a very very very effective [24:03] tactic Uh other things I would add uh anger anger is absolutely an emotional [24:10] consequence Now sometimes the anger comes out explosively We actually see anger is a uh symptom explosive anger is [24:19] a symptom of post-traumatic stress disorder which can be a consequence of experiencing domestic and sexual [24:25] violence Uh but for some folks it becomes the opposite where the anger becomes so internalized that they can't [24:31] experience it There's so much fear in experiencing it that people can't experience it They can't connect to it [24:38] which is also really really a harmful consequence And then we get into specific mental [24:44] health diagnoses We see things like post-traumatic stress disorder We see depression We see anxiety These are all [24:51] more mental health after effects that come from experiencing coercive control Then we get into the [24:57] neurological after effects Um I'm a massive brain nerd I love to talk brain If I had the time I'd give you all a [25:03] good brain talk today Ann knows that She's heard it a lot of you have if you've gone to to to the opportunity to [25:09] do any of the volunteer classes Um but there are really real consequences [25:15] neurologically Uh we have what's known as a parasympathetic and a sympathetic nervous system Our sympathetic nervous [25:22] system's job is to keep us alive It it activates it gets us ready to fight life free We have the opposite system which [25:29] is our parasympathetic which is what brings everything back to resting Coercive control activates that [25:35] sympathetic nervous system that gets us ready to fight flight freeze and faint even if there's not actually a threat [25:42] And so coercive control plays into that and can absolutely just do haywire [25:48] things to that sympathetic nervous system and make it really hard for that parasympathetic nervous system to [25:54] re-engage Our sympathetic nervous system engages instantly to keep us alive and our parasympathetic can take days weeks [26:02] often to kick in and be able to bring us back to relaxation state So again often [26:08] times a survivor is reactivated into a fightlight state before she's or he is [26:14] even or they are even ready to be able to calm back down Other after effects we see are hits [26:20] to things like trust I often get asked what's one of the biggest after effects of domestic violence and my number one [26:27] answer is hits to selfrust So that's a big one We see hits [26:32] to trust in others Um and a big part of what I do is teach people trust is on the spectrum Uh self-esteem hits are a [26:39] really big mental health after effect that we see uh tr hints to intimacy [26:45] hints to being able to understand us uh power and control not necessarily in the [26:51] context of the wheel but being able to understand our own autonomy and our power and control So there's a lot of mental health after effects So that's my [26:59] answer Thank you Thank you Our next question is for Britney Uh [27:04] Britney what are some of the tactics that you have seen or heard in the context of sexual assault yeah I'm glad [27:11] that you had the power and control wheel pulled up in the beginning because that I'm probably going to reference a couple [27:17] times but when it comes to sexual assaults the most common form that we [27:22] are going to see is that verbal control or that verbal manipulation We can see it in ways that come to put guilt to put [27:31] shame on the p on the victim survivor We can see it as [27:37] emotional and this can come and go It's a continuum or it could be multiple [27:43] things all happening at once The purpose of it is is so that their self-worth is [27:50] undermined to the point where they're less likely to resist the abuse or even [27:55] after so long they might not even recognize it as abuse anymore [28:01] So what we want to do is be open to those understand how all that can impact [28:09] a person whether it's physical violence whether it's sexual violence or whether it's in the firm the form of verbal [28:17] another aspect we see when it comes to sexual assaults is the use of alcohol or [28:22] substances being used that can also show up in many forms that can show up as a [28:28] person willingly wanting to drink alcohol use substances It can show up as [28:33] someone being forced to use that alcohol or substances or it can be someone [28:40] feeling pressured to use that And the goal of that is that when they are under [28:45] the influence of that their decision- making or even their level of consciousness is inhibited which [28:52] obviously can impact how an assault could occur to someone [28:58] When these tactics are being used during a sexual assault the goal is that they [29:04] will engage in this sexual activity because they don't feel they have any other option instead of doing that [29:11] Uh when that does happen over time this creates a big power dynamic which [29:17] then makes that victim survivor feel trapped in that relationship and fearful [29:22] of what could happen if they do ever uh not want to participate or refuse any [29:29] of those sexual demands Great Thank you so much Uh our [29:35] next question is for Jess Uh Jess how do you see coercive control influence the [29:42] system response or the community response to victim survivors yeah that's a good question Um so I take [29:50] a in my role I take kind of a statewide view and I'm oftentimes uh working with legislators but also with the people who [29:57] have to implement the laws And one of the big issues with coercive control is that it disrupts the victim survivors [30:04] ability to even kind of communicate what's happening to them to the system actors that might be able to help Um so [30:12] if what's happening to you is subtle and it's not something that the person who's trying to help you is predisposed to [30:18] recognize you know if someone's used to looking at black eyes and what they're now seeing is um somebody being [30:23] insidiously controlled uh via verbal commands or threats Um they might not [30:30] have the same level of response that they probably should So I think that's one of the big things is it makes it [30:35] harder for someone to advocate what's actually happening for themselves um because it's not universally accepted as [30:42] a form of abuse It is universally accepted by people here in our domestic violence abuse prevention movement Um [30:49] but it's not not every person you see on the street will immediately recognize that as a form of abuse Um and so that [30:56] just it makes it hard And in fact not every victim survivor will recognize that what's happening to them is a form [31:02] of abuse Um sometimes you'll hear people say "It took me a year or two to realize that was that was kind of messed up what [31:08] was going on Um and so that's one of the biggest thing that impacts our community [31:14] responses is um that level of self advocacy that every victim survivor in [31:19] every abuse situation has to do gets harder when it's hard to have that exact [31:24] language to describe um what's happening to me and have this reasonable expectation that the person you're [31:30] talking to will kind of intuitively understand that [31:36] Thank you One thing I'll add to that that that just kind of made me think of was uh one of the assessments that we [31:42] use in advocacy is the danger assessment created by Dr Jacqueline Campbell And [31:49] some of the questions on there the questions are written in a way that are understandable and you and language that [31:55] victim survivors use So it might not be like what we would call strangulation [32:01] They might call choking as just an example And so I think um how people are [32:06] able to share their story and how and the language that people are using is definitely kind of impacted by all [32:12] that's happened Our next question uh back to [32:18] Hector Uh Hector what do you see or what have you heard as kind of justifications [32:24] for controlling behaviors or why people say they use abuse or control sure Yeah [32:31] A lot of the the people that we work with right they they tend to say things along the lines of like well I'm I'm [32:38] helping them They don't know what they're doing wrong Uh or uh they they [32:44] poratively you talk about the mental health disorders Well you have you have the borderline right it's not borderline [32:50] personalities or it's the borderline Um and uh so she's got the borderline She [32:56] doesn't know what she's doing She does this all over the place She's very emotional um or uh you know she she keeps flirting [33:04] and she's uh she's giving her kids a bad example of what it means to be a mom or what it means to be a woman and I'm just [33:12] trying to keep her straight Or I also hear a lot of uh really grandiose [33:17] religious ideology to control people uh well I'm the head of the woman you know and it's like well yeah maybe maybe you [33:25] shouldn't be the head of the woman but um you know and and so you hear that it's more about like I'm helping you One [33:31] of the cases that I had as we were just talking was when I was at the domestic abuse project I had an individual that [33:38] this doesn't normally happen but he wanted to sit right next to me as a facilitator And I'm like what is this [33:43] usually the seats around me are very empty but he wanted to sit right next to me and I'm like heck And I started [33:49] hearing about his case and he was referred because he had over the years now like five years convinced his wife [33:56] that she needed medications she needed to go to the hospital because she's feeling suicidal You didn't hear what you just said in front of the kids Honey [34:03] why are we arguing about this i'm trying to protect the kids and you you need help And after about the fifth or sixth [34:09] time that she went to the hospital uh as a social worker that realized she's recognized these kids before and he she [34:16] befriended well or sort of made themselves an acquaintance And so she told the dad "Why don't I take the kids [34:22] get them some ice cream and you take care of your wife?" And when taking the kids off to the side she asked him "So [34:28] what's going on why does mom keep coming here?" Well daddy's making her think that she's not a good mom Daddy's making [34:33] her think that she's better off that daddy's making her think that her medications aren't working Daddy's this daddy's that daddy's trying to keep the [34:40] family together and and daddy thinks that she's cheating daddy So they come up with all of these reasons to make the [34:46] the other person less than a functional human being I have to take control [34:52] Sometimes one of the the the hardest things to to believe about this is that now in the higher level cases it's [34:59] obvious they know what they're doing But when you start seeing the the trajectory from somebody who's starting off in [35:05] their previous relationships there's research on this how it begins to grow If it worked in one relationship a [35:11] little bit to get what you want or at least make you feel like you're not as insecure then you'll do it again in the next relationship until there's an [35:17] intervention And often times these individuals that come in and they're still young they're still in a [35:23] relationship Well I thought I was doing the right thing I thought that I was trying to be a good man I thought that I was trying to be a good husband a good [35:28] father a good boyfriend They didn't realize that what they were doing was destructive when they're younger Now as [35:35] they get older and they've gotten uh through the system maybe they've gone through uh some charges and convictions [35:42] maybe they've gone through some anger management they're beginning to realize that their job is to not get caught [35:47] right so then that's where the denying the minimalizing becomes uh more insiduous Honey let's be honest I was [35:56] trying to take care of you Your mental health symptoms were coming out The kids were watching it The neighbors knew heard about it Everybody heard you [36:02] yelling at me I was just trying to keep the peace and and here we are at it again I'm I'm sticking with you I love [36:10] you I'm going to help you Right so it it it's it's all about the control The [36:15] bottom the bottom line is it's about control and you're not going to leave me because I control you [36:24] Thank you I think that's a good segue to our next question for Shannon Um how does coercive control or some of these [36:30] behaviors uh create behavioral barriers for victim survivors [36:37] i want to start by talking about shame Going back to the mention I I mentioned earlier I talked about the difference [36:43] between shame and toxic shame Again shame is something we're meant to feel especially healthy for us to experience [36:49] It helps us grow It helps us develop until we get to the point we're in that toxic shame But shame is also an emotion [36:56] that uh is connected with social activity and social connection Um and so [37:02] when we're talking about reaching out to get help oftentimes help comes in the [37:07] form of social connection Uh whether it be coming in for mental health services whether it be going in to be able to go [37:15] like to meet with Britney to be able to uh get physical health services whether [37:21] it involves coming into the shelter no matter what it involves more often than not going in for help involves [37:27] relationships Shame is often when we're talking shame I'm talking in this case toxic shame The barrier here is uh [37:35] feeling dirty feeling disgusted becomes a barrier to being able to go in to get help Right if I believe in my heart that [37:43] I deserved what I got it's going to be really hard for me to want to [37:51] uh reach out be able to manage the relationship side and be able to reach [37:56] out and ask for help because again when I'm in that place of toxic shame I don't [38:02] want to socially connect And I think that's really really important for us to be aware of Shame acts as a barrier [38:09] Another one is fear A lot of individuals who experience coercive control experience fear as I [38:16] already had mentioned Uh when we're talking about getting help I I honestly [38:22] start every email of every person who reaches out to me by saying "Thank you [38:27] for reaching out It takes a lot of courage to do this." That is my start of every email for every person that [38:33] reaches out Because at the end of the day it's true It takes a tremendous amount of courage to reach out to get [38:40] help And so for us to be able to recognize and to validate to fight back [38:45] on that fear is incredibly incredibly important A lot of those individuals [38:50] think we're going to think they're crazy And that's real because they have been [38:56] told so many times that they're crazy whether it be by their partners by [39:01] family members or even by themselves they've been told they're crazy right so they're expecting us to [39:09] say the same to them And so we don't want to do that We need to be a voice to [39:15] fight back on that message Uh another big barrier again is [39:21] individual's own selft talk Again when you hear something so [39:26] many times you start to believe it I cannot tell you the things I've had clients tell me that they've experienced [39:33] in their selft talk things that they truly believe and I have conversations with them one way I fight back with my [39:40] clients and say uh and this is something I do say to my clients I say if I tell [39:45] you enough times that the grass is pink because you trust me eventually you're going to believe the grass is pink does [39:51] that actually make the grass pink it doesn't but you start to believe it [39:57] Right that's the power of this coercive control And I think that that's really really important We have to fight back [40:04] on that Sorry pulling back up my notes [40:10] here Uh black white thinking is another barrier that we see Uh black white [40:17] thinking is when I fall into the category of things are either this or this Either I'm in the right and he's in [40:23] the wrong or he's in the right and I'm in the wrong Right so we all every [40:29] single person in this room experiences black white thinking about something We all fall into this where we fall into these categories that it's either this [40:35] or it's this Well when we're talking about coercive control it often is about negative selft talk Right so again as we [40:43] already mentioned this negative selft talk is going to be a barrier And then we also fall into emotional reasoning [40:49] Emotional reasoning is where I feel an emotion oftentimes like conviction or [40:55] fear or shame and because I feel an emotion it convinces me the thought [41:00] behind my emotion is true This is one of the biggest after effects of experiencing any trauma whether it be [41:07] domestic violence sexual violence uh you name it It doesn't even have to be an interpersonal violence But we fall into [41:13] this trap of emotional reasoning Because I experience an emotion that comes with the thought I convince myself that [41:19] thought is true So that emotional reasoning is a massive barrier to seeking out treatment So I will tell [41:26] myself I'm stupid I feel a bit of conviction behind being stupid because I should have known better right so I'll [41:33] feel I will feel shame Well feel guilt and think I should have known better [41:38] which means that I'm not going to seek out help because of that And then the last thing and Britney hit on this a [41:45] moment ago that we'll see uh is people will choose to turn to other forms of [41:51] self-medication We'll see things like substance abuse Uh people will turn to [41:56] substance abuse Uh the overlap between eating disorders and trauma is well over 90% People will turn to unhealthy coping [42:04] strategies uh because they are looking for any way to manage because again [42:09] going to seek out help takes being in relationship and that is really freaking hard [42:16] Thanks Grass Thank you Shannon Uh our next question is for Britney Um [42:23] so Shannon definitely kind of talked about the mental health impacts of domestic violence or domestic abuse and [42:30] coercive control Uh the question for Britney is how how does domestic violence or domestic abuse and course of [42:37] control impact a person's physical health and how does it impact maybe the [42:43] greater public health yeah So going back to that power and control wheel again [42:49] we're looking at all aspects of someone's life that can be manipulated One of the biggest ways we see is [42:56] support systems Whether they're moving them away from family [43:01] uh maybe making them feel guilty about wanting to go out for dinner with friends they're slowly taking away those [43:07] relationships that people have comfort in Another way is monitoring their daily [43:13] activities That can be something like having cameras in the house so that they feel like they're being watched that [43:20] that control is there They're always feeling like someone's watching them controlling what they're doing even in [43:26] their home I know Hector talked a lot about gaslighting making the person that [43:32] victim survivor always feel like they're in the wrong and the abuser is always in the right They're constantly putting [43:39] them down They're really eroding that person's individual autonomy [43:44] And then even going into controlling aspects of their health and body I've [43:49] seen it where people are on exercise regimens where they're on a diet regimen [43:55] They're controlling even something that maybe brought that person joy at one point and now it's another thing that's [44:02] being controlled They can deny them [44:08] um finances So maybe at one point they made them quit their job Maybe they're [44:14] given an allowance every week that they can only use or maybe they don't even have access to their finances The goal [44:20] of all of that is to not have that person doesn't have any [44:26] autonomy anymore which makes it that much harder for them to be able to leave [44:32] Clearly all of that can impact someone's physical health Um and how that can [44:39] impact our society and our public is social isolization like you talked a lot [44:44] about too People don't want to go out when they have shame guilt fear on what [44:49] the repercussions could be if that's something that they choose to do [44:55] Um can you also talk a little bit about um reproductive coercion and how how [45:02] coercive control plays a role in that and how that shows up in your work yeah absolutely And that can be done in [45:09] multiple ways as well That can be done as limiting access to birth control That [45:14] can be forcing someone to be on birth control It can be uh forcing to [45:21] terminate pregnancies it can be forcing them to go through with the pregnancy Thankfully there are some ways [45:27] that this can be helped with people Uh birth control options that are available [45:34] There's IUD placements that can be completed There's uh depo shots that can [45:40] be completed Uh emergency contraception can be offered But all of that a lot of the [45:46] time is also timesensitive which can be very difficult given the circumstances of the abuse that's going [45:52] on Not only is it the physical aspect that affects that with reproductive [45:58] abuse but it also is a huge mental effect If a woman is going through a [46:05] pregnancy where it's maybe something they didn't want they're going to have a [46:10] lot of resentment towards that pregnancy and they might even have resentment towards that child which then can really [46:16] impact that mother child bonding experience And a lot of people then will [46:22] look at their children and they're seeing that as a reminder of that abuse and that control that's ongoing in that [46:29] relationship Um depression is a big thing that we that they're they could [46:34] experience And then in regards to the baby uh low birth weight is a really big [46:40] side effect that can happen just because of the possibility that it was a poor [46:45] pregnancy poor support whatever it might be Um and through all of that the mother [46:53] might feel like the best decision is to conceal all that information to make sure that the child father relationship [46:59] isn't harmed in any way which is then putting another burden on her as well [47:07] Thank you Um so our next question is for Shannon Um and I think this one this is [47:13] something that we hear often in advocacy is you know what should I do what what [47:19] do I need how can you help me um and so the the question is how can people break [47:25] free from coercive control what is needed in order for someone to heal [47:33] that is a very complicated question Uh and the reality is uh there's a lot of [47:40] different ways to break free which is good Uh first off is going to be social [47:45] support Uh the biggest protective factor against any mental health diagnosis that [47:51] there is is social support Uh and that includes everybody that is in this room [47:57] Earlier Jeff asked us all to stand if we had experienced domestic violence or knew somebody who had Uh the reality is [48:04] every single one of us in this room could have been standing because the prevalence rates of domestic violence [48:10] and sexual violence are that high Uh I would be really hardressed to believe [48:15] there's not a person in this room who doesn't at least know somebody who's experienced it uh which means that we [48:21] all have the ability to make a difference in somebody's lives and be able to connect with somebody and be able to provide social support to [48:28] somebody Um I regularly get phone calls from people even people who aren't uh [48:34] clients I get family members that call me up and they say "What do I do i have a family member who's experiencing DV or [48:41] sexual violence What do I do?" Uh and again oftentimes these folks [48:46] aren't aren't clients or in any way connected to clients And my answer to them always is just be there [48:54] Avoid that question Please please please don't ask that question Why don't you [49:00] just leave that question induces shame And you've already heard me talk about shame twice so I won't go down that [49:05] pathway again right now But that question induces so much shame So [49:12] instead of trying to push somebody to do what you really really want them to do be there Be their social support Be with [49:19] them Walk with them Support them Ask them what they need Don't be their rescuer Be their empowerer [49:27] Right so that is one really big important aspect of being able to break free is that social support Another [49:36] aspect is uh for a survivor to be able to really work on managing their selft [49:41] talk There's a lot of good ways to be able to do that Psychotherapy is one of them Um there's a number of really good [49:49] uh post-traumatic stress disorder structured protocols I'm I use two of [49:55] them particularly Uh being able to really fight back on that selft talk So getting through that shame getting [50:02] through those shame based statements getting through that black white thinking that I had previously mentioned [50:07] that emotional reasoning uh being able to fight back being able to get through the I shoulds I should [50:13] have known better I should have seen the red flags I goodness I could go all the way down [50:20] Uh we also have to fight back on some of the overgeneralized beliefs Not only do we have people's guilt about their own [50:26] quote unquote role in all of this but then we have to fight back on the overgeneralized beliefs like in the [50:32] context of domestic violence One of the most common things that I fight back on with people is that all men are evil [50:39] No not all men hurt women In fact the vast majority of men don't hurt women And we have to go through that and talk [50:45] that over So a really big part of this is fighting back on that selft talk and [50:50] being able to change that selft talk Um another big thing is being able to [50:56] help people differentiate that there's a difference between submission and consent [51:02] Submission means that you are doing something without consent Consent means you are doing it [51:08] freely right and so when we are talking about things this is uh sexual violence [51:14] awareness month This is a really big one that I've been talking a lot about with clients right now Um if somebody is [51:22] holding me at gunpoint and asks for my wallet and I give them my wallet I am submitting to them to give them my [51:28] wallet I am not consenting to give them my wallet I am submitting my my wallet to them [51:35] right i'm not consenting The same is true in the context of sexual relationships And that is true not just [51:42] in sexual relationships but bodily autonomy And so a big part of working to over to overcome and heal from all of [51:50] this is being able to understand there's big differences between submission and [51:56] consent And then I would also add um we have to uh do things like work [52:05] through self-compassion work through self-care work through self-love [52:12] For some people it involves breaking the silence which a lot of people in this room have are big contributors to Uh [52:19] thank you for everybody in here that's an advocate that's helped do things like write victim impact statements [52:26] uh that uh have helped people with memoirs things like that That's a really big part of breaking the silence So [52:32] that's also a big part of how we help people break free from all of this [52:38] uh education I'm a believer the best intervention in the world is prevention right so if we can keep [52:45] talking about this it's what we're all doing today So thank you all for being here to be talking about this because again best interventions prevention So [52:53] if we can prevent coercive control by educating people I'm a believer in that too So thank you Ann I appreciate it [53:01] Yeah thank you Uh one thing that came to mind is something that I've shared in a variety of trainings when people kind of [53:08] want to know what can I do to help or what should I say and there are you know Shannon talked about having a support [53:14] system and being a support person for victim survivors And and the three things that I always leave people with [53:21] is listen validate and believe And you [53:26] might be the first person that the survivor is sharing their story with and how you respond If you don't listen if [53:33] you don't validate and you don't believe that shapes the entire rest of their [53:38] experience they might not say anything again So that's my two cents on that as [53:44] well Um the next question I have is for Hector and I think this is um also [53:51] something that we see a lot in advocacy is where when the work that we're doing is you know we hear a lot that within a [53:58] relationship victim survivors what they want is they want the abuse to stop They [54:03] don't necessarily want to leave the relationship They just want the abuse to stop and they want to have a healthy [54:09] relationship with the person that they're with And so the question um here is is it possible for a person who uses [54:17] abusive behavior such as coercive control to change and if so how do you [54:22] work to address that yes Uh otherwise my job would really [54:28] suck right hey nobody ever changes Thanks for coming Um but yes I completely agree [54:35] that anybody's capable of change Um and and it it starts with with a choice um [54:42] realizing that what you're doing isn't working It's destructive It's toxic uh [54:47] to relationships to yourself Even the amounts of cortisol that you dump into your body when you're an angry person [54:52] jeez you know fatty liver is associated with that Fatty liver is associated with fatigue and then aggressive more [54:59] aggressive levels of uh behavior It's just it's one bad cycle right so I do [55:05] believe that people can change And the way that that that we start that often times especially with my most [55:10] personality disordered people is I'll clean it up because it's a family event but it's stop doing stupid stuff right [55:16] and the treatment plan for somebody who's antisocial or who's aist is stop doing stupid stuff because the rest of [55:23] us are going to put you in jail or prison right so stop doing stupid stuff So with a higher level of psychopathy [55:30] we're it's just like crisis negotiation right i'm going to I'm going to appeal to your your ego and your sense of [55:36] wanting to to like just be left alone Do your own thing Fine You can do your own thing Just stop hurting people cuz we're [55:41] going to catch you Right so that's higher levels But then most of what we do is like in my programs that I've [55:48] started it's looking at where did the trauma begin one question that guys don't get asked often and and we've had [55:54] some s some some individuals that have done some heinous things Uh we're listening to like people who have really [56:01] hurt people I mean I'm not going to get into some of the torture that we we listen to but just the question of where [56:07] did you learn how to do that where where where was that model for you how did you [56:12] even know how to do that and then it starts the the cycle going like oh my gosh yeah there was a genesis to this [56:18] and it wasn't a happy little you know story of being raised in a home where I got everything I wanted Uh there's a lot [56:25] of aces back there And so what we do is we we look at cognitive behavioral models I I specifically use dialectical [56:31] behavioral therapy to be able to get to the trauma that may exist There are a few individuals where it's it's obvious [56:39] that this is a high level psychopathy Those individuals don't get caught as [56:44] much Um we get the ones that get caught right uh and then sometimes the ones that are spouse referred because they [56:51] don't want to get caught and their their their wife or their spouse is saying it's time We're leaving if you don't do [56:56] something about this Um we'd like to get them when the OFFPs are uh in family [57:01] court We'd like to see them then honestly uh because they don't realize that you got an OFP because you're using [57:07] this type of behavior So we start with that and then we start working towards treatment of [57:13] whatever it is their own trauma and shame is because there when there is toxic shame we know that they're [57:18] probably going to do it again research has taught us uh back in 2002 UK studies [57:23] showed that when there's criticism when there's hostility and overwhelming emotions and you're dealing with your [57:29] own mental health stuff if you perceive it in any way then you're more likely to get spun up in your basil ganglia and [57:35] you're going to start acting out of your mental health disorder But if you're able to deal with that if you're able to [57:42] to you know realize this isn't about me or whatever it is that you need Maybe it is about me but you know I don't have to [57:48] internalize this I don't have to control this And you're able to let go of it Then it starts to create environments [57:54] that are safe We do see most of our uh clients that come through our programming do stop Uh it's we have some [58:03] cool stories It's actually one of the coolest programs that we run Uh because you see the transition guys coming in [58:10] and saying things like "Hey I just got out of jail When did you get out?" you know to like man you're going to want to [58:16] stay in this program It's going to change your life Uh we were just listening to a guy this past Tuesday was [58:22] saying man I've only been using these skills cuz I I wish I learned this when I was 12 years old I wouldn't have gotten myself into these messes I [58:28] wouldn't have done the things I've done I wouldn't have been so mad and felt like this is the only way to do things Like I wish I learned this when I was 12 [58:34] years old When I was 12 years old they taught me how to make a pillow a skateboard [58:40] pillow that's done nothing for me today you know So yeah people do change and [58:47] when they do change it's remarkable to see how much they want to make everything else change around them Like [58:52] I got to fix this or I got to let them go because I've done my damage I have to move on with life or whatever it is But [58:59] we do see people change and it starts with stop doing stupid stuff Simple treatment plan [59:09] I just wanted to thank you for that answer and also just highlight for anyone in the room who is hearing this [59:14] thinking "Oh this is the type of programming that me or someone I know could use." Um Violence Free Minnesota [59:20] the coalition I work for we maintain on our website um a directory of [59:27] Minnesota's domestic abuse transformation programming providers Um so first off if you are a provider and [59:34] you're not on our website let us know Um and if you would like to find that kind of thing you can just go to our website [59:39] vfmn.org um and find a provider near you Awesome Awesome I didn't know that exist [59:45] I didn't know that Yeah Great Um you can keep the mic Jess Our next question is for you [59:50] Um so how do you suggest people talk about domestic abuse coercive control in [59:57] general um I think I know there's been a lot of um kind of suggestions for media outlets [1:00:04] and different articles and authors to kind of call it what it is And so I [1:00:10] think the question is how do you how do you suggest we talk about it or write about it yeah thanks for that And um if [1:00:18] you let me I could take up the rest of our time here So I'm going to I'm going to limit myself to four parts Um so [1:00:25] first historically um the the conversation where we started using this phrase coercive control um a lot of [1:00:32] people think of that as like starting to kick up around the '90s and especially recently this isn't a new concept nor is [1:00:38] it a new thing that's happening to people Um something I point out a lot to people is if you look back at the Senica [1:00:44] Falls con women's convention 1848 um we often times think of that as like the kickoff of the women's suffrage [1:00:50] movement but the declaration of grievances at that included things like freedom to divorce uh fair shake at [1:00:58] custody proceedings A lot of these things that were expressing an imbalance in the power between men and women in [1:01:04] relationships that needed to be corrected and warranted a state correction So people were having this [1:01:10] discussion way back then And if we think about the ways that people control each other whether in relationships whether [1:01:16] in working relationships whether in uh government to person relationships those [1:01:22] methods of control started developing the second we started organizing as a society Um so just important to note [1:01:30] that when we talk about it maybe the terminology developed recently but there is a whole body of feminist [1:01:35] criminological philosophical work that existed millennia ago already talking [1:01:43] about these issues And it's I think just important to recognize kind of our forebears in this and know that we're [1:01:48] not we're not new We're not inventing something new but we are talking about it in a way that maybe we've not talked [1:01:54] about before Uh the second thing I want to talk about is how we talk about it directly So when we talk about coercive [1:02:00] control I think it's important that we know that our kids can use that word that they can say coercive control that [1:02:07] they know what it means so that if it's happening to them they can express that instead of just saying like oh my [1:02:14] boyfriend is being a jerk they might be able to use actual language So you know [1:02:20] this is a regular type of a boyfriend being a jerk or it is something more [1:02:25] than that right so making sure that they're able to talk about that directly and that you've talked with children directly that you've talked with your [1:02:31] friends directly Um and then we talk about this a lot All four of us have been doing it um as a lot of times um [1:02:40] because of the way that society is structured and the power dynamics that we have this is most commonly um a [1:02:46] situation where a man is the perpetrator and a woman is the victim That is not always the case Um we have cases of men [1:02:53] being victims with women as perpetrators LGBT relationships are certainly not immune to this Um and so I think it's [1:03:00] just really important to kind of wrap those in know that you should be talking about this to your daughters and your sons both from the perspective of them [1:03:07] being a perpetrator or them being a victim and knowing what they need to look for to make sure that they are [1:03:12] contributing healthily to relationships Um the next thing to talk about this is how we talk about it indirectly even [1:03:18] when we're not talking about coercive control How are we modeling healthy conflict resolution in relationships [1:03:25] both for children and for others how are we making sure that we are regularly checking in with each other about our [1:03:31] relationships you know you don't have to be like "Oh hey I haven't seen you in a while Are you being coercively controlled?" But you can be like "Hey I [1:03:38] haven't seen you in a while How are things going?" And listen for things in there and just make sure that they know whoever that is that they can talk to [1:03:45] you about how their relationship is going And that you will be receptive to that And you never have to say for them [1:03:51] hey I think you're being abused Hey I think this is course of control But they do have to know that they can talk to you openly about whatever is happening [1:03:57] in that relationship So it is important to think about it is this sort of indirect communication as well And then [1:04:04] lastly you mentioned specifically media Um one thing that we do a lot at Violence Free Minnesota is try to make [1:04:10] sure that our media is reporting on domestic violence responsibly So when you're reporting on domestic violence we [1:04:16] always want to make sure that you are using words that are affirming to a victim that are not blaming a victim um [1:04:22] and that are expressing what actually happened without using too much euphemism But importantly also we want [1:04:30] if someone to read that story and say "This sounds like what's happening to me." We want there to be right at the [1:04:35] bottom that if you or someone you know needs domestic violence services call [1:04:40] and then the number is usually the day one hotline That is our statewide hotline and a great resource Um but [1:04:47] sometimes it'll also be the day one hotline plus like if it happened in Dakota County they would say they might [1:04:52] also give 360 communities or if it happened wherever it happened they might tell you the local resource If you can [1:04:59] add those types of resources into articles about coercive control about [1:05:05] this thing that not everyone's always recognizing as domestic violence or you're reporting on a relationship that might be toxic but you are not able to [1:05:12] publicly identify as uh as a relationship abuse there's still no harm [1:05:18] in making sure everybody knows where they can find their resources So from a [1:05:24] media perspective naming it honestly and making sure that whenever you might be [1:05:29] touching on DV you are giving DV resources Those both of those things really help us as a society talk about [1:05:38] this more directly And I guess if I have to wrap it up in one sentence people should be able to talk [1:05:45] with clarity about what they're experiencing in their relationship And part of that is on them to learn the [1:05:51] words And part of that is on you to listen through whatever words they're using [1:05:57] Great Thank you Um I have one more question for you Jess And this has come [1:06:02] up um when Lieutenant Governor Flanigan was speaking and talking about coercive control um and the legislature and laws [1:06:11] around coercive control And we also know that there are laws in other countries [1:06:16] about coercive control um wondering uh are there laws here in Minnesota that [1:06:22] address coercive control um and what is your stance on that yeah so um there are [1:06:30] not right now laws that specifically name coercive control There are ways that elements of coercive control can [1:06:36] come into a court case Um so for example in a custody proceeding one of the things that parents have to be talking [1:06:42] about is their ability to cooperate together And a lawyer might say "Hey look at this pattern of behavior right?" [1:06:47] Um so there are ways that it can come in even if it's not explicitly named But um you're right that it it's there's a [1:06:54] variety of approaches to this issue in the law And one thing I want to start off saying is everybody in our movement [1:07:03] agrees that this is a form of domestic violence that it requires confrontation Not everybody agrees if [1:07:10] the state and if the justice system is the right venue for confronting the issue Um so where coercive control laws [1:07:18] kind of kicked off was the UK and they've been kind of spreading throughout the continent In the UK it is just in their definition of domestic [1:07:25] violence for the purpose of crimes family court orders for protection In the US a few states have started to [1:07:32] introduce it Some of them specifically say course of control Others have a description of the behaviors that a [1:07:38] domestic violence advocate would recognize as course of control but they might not use that word Um but in [1:07:45] general in the United States almost all of our states are just have it in the order for protection statute or [1:07:51] equivalent So you're not going to get charged with a crime for it but somebody could get a restraining order against an [1:07:57] abusive partner for it Um I know Hawaii has a pilot program as a crime but it's [1:08:03] a petty misdemeanor which is like a parking ticket or a speeding ticket Uh there's not a police department in the [1:08:09] world that's going to put a ton of resources into re researching the specifics of a relationship dynamic to [1:08:16] issue a parking ticket Right that's just I I have talked to the coalition there It's not being charged Um I don't know [1:08:24] of any other states that have any criminal consequences Um in Minnesota we [1:08:29] have been hesitant to add it and I'll just kind of explain a little bit why Um with this being a more subtle form of [1:08:36] abuse that's harder to explain you're not explaining an event right a physical abuse event something like somebody [1:08:42] getting punched somebody getting strangled That's an event that can be proven and specifically happened in like [1:08:48] a tangible period of time But coercive control is a relationship dynamic It's still abuse but it's a more difficult [1:08:56] thing to prove And one of the fears that we have is that we already have a really [1:09:03] hard time getting people their order for protection if they're experiencing physical violence We already have a hard [1:09:09] time getting people believed if they're experiencing physical violence And we just don't know quite yet if we're ready [1:09:14] to start addressing this other thing through the law Um the other bit about it is um we have [1:09:23] some issues with specifically people of color being viewed as aggressors when [1:09:28] they're not being aggressors And so when we're talking about a relationship dynamic and you're trying to explain a [1:09:34] relationship dynamic that might be uh course of control there's fear that [1:09:40] abusers might control the narrative and might make specifically women of color [1:09:45] look like aggressors when they're just doing regular relationship stuff to assert their needs Um and that is the [1:09:52] last bit which is that most of our survivors going to court aren't represented by counsel And so if you [1:09:58] have two people unrepresented and one of them is abusing the other they are going to have a big advantage in controlling [1:10:04] the narrative that gets presented to the court And so they're going to have a big advantage in saying I mean how often do [1:10:10] we hear I'm sure we all hear your honor she's driving me crazy Your honor uh she made me do that [1:10:18] She's actually a course of controlling me And as advocates we would [1:10:24] often be able to recognize that But the court has a more limited scope And when people aren't able to when people don't [1:10:30] have an attorney and they're used to being controlled they're not always able [1:10:35] to set their own narrative So there's a lot of barriers here but that doesn't mean that it's completely impossible for [1:10:41] us to be addressing this as a society I want to just stress to everyone in this room um whether you are seeing this [1:10:47] happening in your own life whether you are law enforcement whether you're a systems actor if you're seeing this happen and you don't think that you can [1:10:54] bring a criminal charge you don't think you can do something like that you still have 360 communities here You can refer [1:10:59] to advocates who have the best practices on that you still have the day one hotline you have this whole community-based network of people who [1:11:07] know about this issue who are ready to help clients deal with it even if that's [1:11:12] not necessarily through a typical state response Thank you So I feel like we could do [1:11:20] this all day but we do have to wrap it up So I have one more question Uh same [1:11:25] question for everyone on the panel Um if there's one thing of all of the things [1:11:31] that you would like people here to know and leave here with what would it be [1:11:41] yeah Um I think the biggest thing is what I just said about making sure that um you know that there is a whole [1:11:48] network here Um at Valentry Minnesota we're a coalition Um so we have we're [1:11:54] blessed to have 360 community as a member as a member We also have over 90 other members from the every corner of [1:12:00] the state of Minnesota It's a network of people ready to fight for you It's a network of people ready to listen to you [1:12:06] believe you and it's a network of people for if you are here from the system for you to refer to and rely on as partners [1:12:13] in making sure that uh the people you see suffering from domestic and sexual [1:12:19] violence can get the help the community support that they need So if there's one thing to take away from me it's that [1:12:27] there's every corner of the state has somebody there to listen to survivors and you just got to refer [1:12:37] And I would say for me some of the most important things to take away would be [1:12:42] to understand what the goal of that abuser is for those victim survivors [1:12:47] They want to take away independence They want to make them feel scared and isolated and that the tactics they use [1:12:55] are a variety of ways It's not just physical It's not just sexual It's not [1:13:01] just mental control It can be all aspects and it can be a range of when they show [1:13:07] up These tactics that are used are targeted and tailored specifically to [1:13:12] those victim survivors and they are subtle and they escalate slowly over [1:13:17] time I've also found when I'm with my patients kind of like Ann stated earlier [1:13:24] you don't always have to fill the space with your voice Sometimes being a presence there and listening and [1:13:31] encouraging them and knowing that you hear them and their story is sometimes the encouragement they need to continue [1:13:38] to get help So reach out to them be a confident for that person Let them know [1:13:44] that you are there as a resource and a support in whatever aspect they might need Don't make promises you can't keep [1:13:51] Don't force anything on them It's really important to meet them where they are at in their journey of this and that they [1:13:58] know they can come to you at any point Maybe when they are ready to leave or when they are ready to get more support and resources [1:14:08] uh I would say that coercive control is real and it has after effects and those after effects are treatable So I hope [1:14:15] that you all take away with you today that those after effects are treatable Um I have seen the research I've seen [1:14:21] the brain scans there is no trauma out there that can't be treated So I ask you [1:14:26] all to please know and to please make sure that you refer for good treatments [1:14:32] Uh trauma is treatable Thank you Yeah I would say um since I [1:14:40] already talked about that change is possible you've already heard me say that but the biggest thing is if you are [1:14:46] one of those uh programs out there that do uh matter intervention programming uh [1:14:51] I think that I could say this uh with um well let's just say you know a [1:15:00] certain sense of passion Um we're not doing a good enough job We we need to do [1:15:06] better We we can't have programs where guys just go they show up and because [1:15:11] there's nothing else then they get you know a check mark Uh we're dealing with individuals who if we don't intervene [1:15:18] effectively with the most evidence-based and empirically supported treatments [1:15:24] programming whatever you want to call it then we're we're creating a problem If [1:15:29] you've done any kind of behaviorism you know that intermittent reinforcers increase the problem behavior And we have a lot of intermittent reinforcers [1:15:35] out there And I'm I'm begging you actually as a better intervention programming If if you've [1:15:42] gotten I'm just going to say if you've gotten a little bit behind on your research behind on your reading behind [1:15:48] on on developing programming behind on what's actually happening these days you're not doing the people that you're [1:15:55] serving a service And I'll ask you and I'll challenge you uh as a colleague in [1:16:00] the field to rise up to that level uh read the research uh do your homework [1:16:06] get the training right and and let's let's get people safe again [1:16:12] Great Uh thank you all so much for being here Um I would also like to answer the [1:16:17] question of what I would like people to leave here with And I think for me it's [1:16:22] knowing that we need to stop asking why people don't just leave And hopefully [1:16:28] this conversation has helped equipped you with all of the reasons or part of the reasons why people don't just leave [1:16:36] so we don't have to ask that question anymore So thank you all so much for [1:16:41] being here I really appreciate your time I've spent time planning with our panelists and learned something new here [1:16:49] today um even after spending all of this time So thank you so very much and let's [1:16:54] all give them a round of applause