Good evening everyone. Welcome to the April 14th Lakeville Area Schools School Board meeting. Tonight is a work session. If we could go around and do roll call that would be great. I'll start and then move to my left. Amber Cameron. Matt Swanson Tony Reichenberger Brenda Albrecht Emily McDonald Kim Baker Carly Anderson Michelle Humphrey Tracy Brovold Paul Carbone Ryan Thompson Michael Baumann Great. Thanks everyone. The first item for tonight is the review and comment public hearing. This is in the board packet. If I'm understanding things correctly and Superintendent Baumann, please jump in if I'm misrepresenting here, but Minnesota statute requires the document that was presented in the board packet as a review and comment statement related to our proposed school construction projects. And so the letter that that's in the packet is from the Minnesota Department of Education. And as you can see at the end of the letter, the department provided a positive review and comment and it's just um part of the process to bring it to the board. It does not require any vote, but if there's any questions or discussion on it, perhaps Michael can entertain that because you're the content expert here. >> Sure, I will. Either that or I will get the question and get it answered for you. Any questions or concerns or comments about the document? Okay. Yeah. Matt. I mean this is just another one of these statutory obligations that you have to do. Correct. And and so that's why we brought two things. The architect came in, went through all this as well as our financial advisor also went through everything with you. So just to make sure you were well informed. There's no no change to anything you've already heard and we did receive a positive review from MDE. It has to go through MDE review just to validate, confirm or deny any particular issues that are could could cause a problem and so we we were in full compliance. Go ahead. Yeah. And just so I'm clear, even if the >> [clears throat] >> if the bond vote's successful, then it still has to go through another review before we move forward with MDE. Um we have to validate the vote. >> [clears throat] >> We have to refine the plan and they get to look at the refined plan, but it must stay within the financial requirements that we put to our voters, which is 139.6 million dollars. Any other questions or comments? Okay. Um So maybe piggyback off of Michael and Matt here, just a reminder to the community that um our referendum bond is open for vote early voting here at District Office and May 12th is the election night and so get out and vote and there's plenty of information on the district website. If you have questions or feel free to reach out to any board member or staff if you have further questions than what's beyond the website. All right, moving to our next item, I'd like to invite Terry Morrow up to the table. Um so as as the board knows and staff members know, we have been working through um policy updates as part of our work um here in the district and I was having a conversation, I don't know, a month or so ago with Terry about a question on one of our policies and Terry just mentioned because you're the person who went through the audit for our our um for 194 all of our policies that if it would be helpful for you to come and walk through kind of MSBA's process on the model policies and how all school boards might approach this process. I said, "Sure, that'd be great." So we're lucky to have you here. Thank you for coming as the content expert. Um and so just for everyone's knowledge, in case you didn't know, Terry's general counsel for the Minnesota School Board Association. Um and it looks like there's a document getting passed around here that I think Terry will go through, but then in addition, um thank you Kim Olson printed a couple of documents from the policy audit. I'm not sure if that ever got distributed fully to the board, so just some further information as we as we move forward here. So Terry, I'll turn over to you and I know there's a couple of policies on the agenda that we could work through as examples if that's helpful, but is it okay to Absolutely. We Thank you. Thank you all for having me here. Please feel free for your schedule, please interrupt me anytime, ask any questions. If there's something I don't get to or I don't know, you certainly can call me or email me, text me and ask me as well. I don't want anyone to either feel rushed or feel that I didn't get to everything. Uh Yeah, I did your policy audit. That was reflected Do you want me to have a mic? Is your mic on? Is it on the green screen? Okay. Okay, good. Yeah. If you haven't already seen this, this is the chart I prepared and it was also a report that had our logo up in the top left corner. Your your policies were in pretty good shape. There were some gaps. The gaps were identified in that policy audit. What we do is we take every one of your policies that has a an MSBA model policy equivalent and we just see what the differences are and depending what the nature of those differences are, we make recommendations on how a school board should proceed. We did about 35 policy audits for districts last year. So a lot of districts are doing the very good work that you all did as well. The way we come up with model policies. The model policy program began in 1996. And the theory was at that time, from what I'm told, is that the federal and the state government were starting to require districts to have mandatory policies, policies that every school district had to adopt. And rather than have Lakeville pay and then St. Peter pay and then Mankato pay lawyers to create essentially the same policy, MSBA started creating model policies in areas that school districts had to have a policy, a mandatory policy. We continue that process to this day. We have approximately 140 policies. I don't think there's any districts that's adopted 140 policies. Our policies do break down into several types and I'm going to give you this chart and I'll pass them both ways. This discussion is also at the bottom of your agenda. There are three types of policies. There are mandatory policies, legal requirement policies, and recommended policies. And then the chart that I just gave you identifies which ones are mandatory, which ones are legal requirements, and which ones are recommended. There are approximately 38 or so mandatory policies, the one the blue ones on that first couple of pages you see. As I mentioned about 2 minutes ago, every school district is required to have a mandatory policy. So for example, equal education policy, policy 102. Every school district in the country has to have an equal education opportunity policy if they want to receive federal funding. Many of the federal laws on mandatory policies are tied to funding. If you don't want to adopt the If a district doesn't want to adopt the policy, the district doesn't have to adopt but it will not funding. So that's how the federal government can do mandatory policies. The state, because the states have primary control over K-12 education, at least theoretically, we can have a different discussion about that, but the states can make direct laws impacting K-12 education. They don't have to tie it to funding in order to do it. I was on the school board in St. Peter. We could talk a lot about unfunded mandates. Let's put that one aside. We'll put a lot of discussions right over here. So mandatory policies, those are the first things we looked for in your policy audit. Make sure you've got every mandatory policy. If there was a missing mandatory policy, then it was our very strong recommendation, that's the first thing to tackle as a school board, adopt the mandatory policies. Why? Because in part, the federal government can withdraw funding. The state can do audits and if the district doesn't have a mandatory policy, the state also can withhold funding from a school district if it doesn't have a mandatory policy. Mandatory policies are very difficult, quite difficult to revise because mandatory policies almost almost entirely quote the law. They quote FERPA, Family Educational Privacy Rights Act. They They quote Minnesota's Pupil Dismissal Act. So it's very difficult for a board to revise a change the language in the mandatory policy. I will also note that with mandatory policies, sometimes the law simply says every school district must have a bullying policy, but it doesn't say what has to be in it. Other policies like the library policy that we had out, I do believe that you all need to adopt the library materials policy if not if you haven't already. I think that may have shown up. I can't recall in our audit. I can look right now. I think one two is 512s Oh, yeah, school sponsored student publication and activities. Is that what you're That's a different but we this is a good this is a good opportunity to go this through this. Uh going through the 400s you had all the mandatory policies. I didn't see the tobacco policy at the time I did the audit. I believe you do have one. Um but we didn't see it. So I'm glad to see that you've got that one. Right. Other than that, I thought there was one more. Maybe you all are fine. Let's just check through here. Oh, yeah, school sponsored publications 512. It's on page 10 of this chart. About 2 years ago or so the Minnesota legislature passed a law requiring schools to have a policy about student journalists. And we put that into our existing policy 512. Again, you may have a policy and we didn't have it reflected at the time we did our review. But from our advice, one thing the school board should do is adopt mandatory policies where mandatory policies are missing. The next category is legal requirements policies. They're in the green. Um legal requirements policies are almost identical to mandatory policies because both largely quote federal or state law. They're difficult to revise or change because they're quoting the law. The only difference between mandatory and legal requirement is the law does not require you to adopt a legal requirements policy. So the policy sets out the legal requirements that fall upon the district but there is no law that says you have to adopt any green policy. So you could choose to ignore I mean ignore in a nice way. You could choose to not adopt any of the green policies that are on this chart. If you don't adopt one of the green policies, your district still must follow the law that's in that policy. So not adopting the policy doesn't get you off the hook if you will for the law. For example, drug, alcohol, and cannabis testing. You still have to follow that law even if you don't adopt policy 416. You do have 416. I think it just had to be updated because of the cannabis language. I don't know what's in yours at the time. >> Can I interject for a quick Please, yeah, please. >> So for the greens so I so the blue ones make sense. Like it's a law, we don't have a choice. It is what it is. Um and >> [snorts] >> and as I look at some of the green ones I I think and and we'll we'll come back to this later. I think uh what I recognize is that the model policies is MSBA's um version of the legal requirement or of the the mandated requirements. That's fair. What what I would say for I it gets really difficult member Thompson because we get into using the words mandatory and legally required and I know that gets confusing. >> Mandatory policy, mandatory language. Yes, if I So if I step back one second I think there are a couple functions here with policies and your board can that's that's determine its own philosophy when it comes to the school district policies. The mandatory ones you have to have. Yep. We encourage districts to adopt the green ones, the legal requirements ones, because your policy website your policies are a very common way for your staff to find out what the rules and the laws are and for your parents and your students and your community. I can't tell you the number of times I'm speaking to the principals tomorrow and the principals tell me they go to our policies to to see what is the law on X. They don't go to look up the law on the Minnesota state website. So I would just encourage you to consider the green ones as an opportunity to share with your community and make it easy for your community to find out what are the laws and rules on everything from drug testing to overdose medication to violence prevention. So so let me let me circle circle back because So my first question I've I've got two. So the blue ones are mandatory language that the state has says you need to have this as a policy. That's those are the blue ones. Correct. >> If I could I'm going to be the lawyer here member Thompson and tweak it a little bit. You must have an equal opportunity education opportunity policy. You're it is mandated by federal law. >> Got it. It doesn't tell you what words have to be in that policy. >> Okay. Some So for example, the the state's bullying statute says every district must have a bullying policy. But the content within >> doesn't tell us the content necessarily. >> Got it. And and so if we are reviewing content >> Mhm. we have to make sure that the content that we are including meets the the the mandatory content. Well, no, I'm sorry. There is no mandatory content. It's it's a mandatory mandatory policy. You need to have a policy. Whatever that policy is, we're not going to dictate if it's good, half good, or poor. The fact that you have one, that's all that we're asking for. And that's what the blue category is all about. >> Yeah. And if I might yes, absolutely. If you're if you if you watch the Masters, what we do with the blue policies, we try to just hit a three wood down the middle of the fairway. We're not we're trying to stay with the law and not go to the sides and start adding best practices or the like. With the blue ones we tried to say there was a court case that said this, there's a law that says this, there's a attorney general opinion, but there's some legal basis. So if when you see the blue ones, they are rather constricted because we don't because we know you have to adopt something a blue policy. We don't want to start going astray from the purpose of giving you a mandatory bullying policy. So our blue ones tend to be right down the middle. So so your blue ones I'm viewing this from a product development lens. It's a minimum viable product MVP. It's just like this is the the bare basics of what we think it it what the for for you to have as a policy. Now you've got lawyers over at MSBA reviewing the legal content, creating the content. Is anyone at MSBA validating with the state this content uh meets and and is satisfactory of the state, but because there is no because the state doesn't care what you have as long as you just have a policy, it is MSBA's interpretation of we think this is the minimum that we think you ought to have. You you would agree >> I'm comfortable generally with what you what what you said member Thompson. Yes. I'm going to give you a policy example. You all should look at policy 721 at some point. It's got a terrible it had a terrible title. Uniform grant guidance for federal I guess it it it was the federal law that if you got a grant, here's all the receipts you had to do. Here's how you had to do bidding. Here's how you have conflict of interest. Here's how you could spend money on travel under that grant. We've changed the title to procurement policy because what was happening is MDE not so much the federal government but MDE they send out auditors and Superintendent Bauman you can speak to the idea that you'll get your special education program, your food services program, programs get audited. And MDE will look at your policies as part of an audit and then write to you or tell you your policy 721 for example is deficient because you're missing this provision. So so like what I'm trying to get to for for you to get to answer, are your blue mandatory policies, the content that you've created, are they vetted and approved by the state? That's that's so So in 7 721 is going to be my example. In 721 I disagreed with MDE's general counsel. They didn't read the They don't They may look at them. I don't we don't send them to get a stamp of approval because they don't have the time to do it. They just maybe they should but they don't. But on 721 I was hearing from the superintendents, we just got dinged on your policy because we don't have a conflict of interest thing. We just got dinged on your policy because we don't have X. And I finally after a series of meetings with MDE, they agreed their auditors were wrong. That it wasn't a legal requirement to put those provisions in a policy. Uh and so then I sent them the new 721 member Thompson because I thought I better get a seal of approval before I rewrite this policy. So moving forward we might try to develop a relationship where if a policy seems if we're not certain that we're on that straight down the middle, it's just the law, no debate on anything that might be debatable, I think we are going to expand that practice. >> But at this time, blue policies blue policies, mandatory policies, we have to have one. Uh the content in it is variable and we get to pick and choose uh because because there is no there's no cop, there's no police that says your policy is wrong until maybe we get dinged, but you've got your own version, but your version at the moment it's not stamped, it's not vetted, it's not approved by MDE or by the state. It is just MSBA's interpretation of how you read the the the state statutes and create a policy around that. Like I know I know it would be so much easier for me to say yes, but it's not yes. Um it depends on the policy. So policy 515 is your pupil protection and privacy of pupil records policy. We quote FERPA word for word. We quote the law word for word. >> one is validating that it's approved by the state. I just >> I agree I agree there's no stamp of approval. Yes, I agree there's no stamp of approval. But it's not MSBA's language. Does that make sense? That's it's FERPA that's in the policy. It's not our language that we created. Given what you just shared about you know the numbers like the back of your hand, but the one you're referencing around the audit 7 whatever it was. 721, thank you. Is there a benefit to having more districts be in alignment in policy so that we have a we have a we have a mass of districts who are interpreting the same things very similarly so that when these things arise we can say look everyone in the every every member of MSBA or you know however it is this is the policy that everyone's adhering by and so MDE here you might not be interpreting this correctly. It's like the power of of participation. I agree with that and so the legislature is again looking at doing another cell phone bill. Mhm. And for years we I've been saying first I was saying trust me every middle school has cell phone rules. You do not have to tell schools to create them. They've got rules. No no they were bound and determined to do to require something. First they first they were going to say phones are banned. And then they realized they couldn't do phones are banned. So then you might recall a year or two ago they said every district has to have a policy. Mhm. Fine. >> [clears throat] >> Our ability to go in and say 329 of 331 districts have already adopted this language right here is a powerful message of back off it's already done. You're not you're not achieving. So that is helpful from an advocacy point of view. It's also helpful as we talk to different state agencies to be able to say Minnesota school districts are looking to do this with Narcan for example. We did a lot of work to help make it possible for schools to have Narcan in the schools. The nurses had come to us and said there were legal problems. Can you help us get the law changed and then create a policy on Narcan. So there are benefits like that as well. That that would make sense to have the groups I think this is Yeah. Yeah. So wouldn't that be the purpose of following MSBA is if you guys have the expertise that you have and you accumulate enough districts behind that then that's the that's the policy. Well for the mandatory ones, yes. I think that would that seems reasonable. But we you've got to have let me rephrase that. I would assume that the school districts the school boards need to have that flexibility and the autonomy to flex their policies whether it strengthen or not strengthen the legal policies or all the other policies they're after so that it's that it's applicable to their respective school district. There's some districts that may not need as as I don't know what whatever We're talking about the mandatory ones. But for the mandatory ones, yeah. I mean and I'm looking at the mandatory policies on MSBA as well, but like the you've got the content and you've got like little references, but it doesn't really highlight in the content itself this word is directly from this statute. If there is a way that whether you guys color code it or you highlight it or something of that nature cuz when I read it or anybody reads it I don't know that you're taking this word out of the legal context and I can't make these changes. And so there's a little bit of balance of of you know MSBA may say must not do it or we may decide they shall not do it. So there's different interpretations, but but that kind of discretion is I think it it should be left at the school board level. When we review policies and knowing that you got to you have a first pass that you can send to us we can we can very clearly see the difference between statutes and not. >> [clears throat] >> If I could could I just very very quickly to be really clear on the mandatory policies we're not making a judgment call on words like shall or must. They are quoting the law. I just can't say it to to to member Anderson's point when I was on the school board my thought was just basically use the MSBA mandatory policies cuz they're just quoting the law. We have to have the policy. I'm over simplifying I'm going to expand on that later, but I agree with you on that. Really there the things in the mandatory policies are we could do that. We could highlight we probably would highlight member Thompson the things that aren't quoting the law cuz it'd be less highlighter cuz it's really like 515 would virtually every word would be highlighted because it's quoting the law. I'm sorry member Thompson. >> Oh no. My guess is I mean you're quoting the law just because you know you're safe then, right? And if you're following exactly what the law says then you're complying with what the law says in your policy. But that doesn't mean you can't change the language, right? The problem is the further you get away from the stated text of the statute you know then you might get an argument of well you're interpreting it wrong or something like that. >> Well the mandatory policy is is like I thought I I thought we had heard we established that we have to have a policy of it, but the content is at our discretion. Well I think it depends on the policy. I think there are some policies that there's probably a lot of discretion. And there's probably like a baseline like we have to have these requirements. We can go more strict if we want or more detailed, but there's going to be certain baseline requirements for certain policies or other ones bullying policy we can have whatever we want, right? Unless there's a specific law on it. You would have a lot of discretion for example on your student discipline policy policy 506. You're required by law to have a student discipline policy. It doesn't say what you have to list as infractions. Sure. So you could go in and say no we don't agree with MSBA's list of 22 categories. You could So to Brian's point it would be interesting to know which policies are more subjective as far as where could you go in and >> mandatory level and tailor them more specifically to the needs of your district as opposed to like hey don't mess with these ones because we track. >> that we were going to mess with them. I think it's just for awareness where is the source data coming from that's telling us we have to do this. Well I'm sure it's all in the footnotes at the bottom of each policy, right? >> [laughter] >> If you want to go through every one of them. And from a certain standpoint because this is cuz the language is coming from you know federal law from state law from you know case law from presidential nature and that's the language your attorneys and everybody put into the model laws the further you would deviate from those laws the more you're opening the door to potential liability and other problems that could result. I can give you a quick example. Yes. So policy 515 the student one. This is coming up a lot right now in districts around the state. There's a there's a subject in your policy about student information called directory information. Every school board every year is supposed to say here's the information about our students that we're going to give to the public if the public asks. Have any of you I'm not going to put you on the spot Well I I got in trouble. Well >> [laughter] >> I wasn't I made it on the news. WELL I I I really didn't know about that, but but what I will say is that legislators are still asking schools to provide lists of high school seniors and their addresses so that the legislators can send congratulation letters. And I've spoken to a number of superintendents again this week saying you can't do that. The law changed two years ago. The state said you cannot give out parent or student contact information. And so then some folks went back to the policy and found they didn't update their policy 515 so it still said that parent information was to be provided and so I won't say which company that sells things that people like to buy for seniors, but they really started pushing and said well your policy says you'll give it to us. So that member that's an example of if your policy doesn't align with the law you're kind of in a bad position because you both have to follow the actual law don't give out the parent information. But your policy says you're going to give it out. So the folks on the ground who have to answer the calls from the I won't say the company's name. They're stuck cuz the policy says something different than the law. You can say it. I'm sorry? You can say the name. Um the the last category I won't say I'm quickly anymore cuz I I'm clearly not that quick. But the are the recommended policies. They're in white on this form. They are very much kind of best practices. Now we're really in an area where you all can decide they look great. We're going to change it at will. There's we don't want it at all. You really have a lot of latitude on those. I will note though uh For example there is a policy on um data privacy you don't have policy 206 I think. That's kind of our public comment policy, public participation at your meetings. And like there's stuff in there about data privacy. You don't want someone in the public comment getting up and starting to talk about a student because it would violate data privacy law. So there is some law in recommended policies, but it's very minor. We've really flipped the table from mandatory where mandatory is almost all law, recommended is almost no law. Is recommended more operating procedures to an extent again cuz I see you know order of a regular school board meeting, consent agendas. And And again you've got some that kind of go beyond SOPs to what is a superintendent, now policy implementation like So if we could start on the first We're not going to go through every page, but if you look on the first page of this chart, you'll see that policy 103 complaints is a recommended policy. No, I got it. It's not grounded in law, but I promise you that your superintendent and everyone else down the line are glad you have a complaints policy so they can point to and say, "You've got to put that in writing. We've got a chain of decision making." So they're nice that way in that they can provide recourse for your staff to turn to. Or when you get to the 200s Remember Tom says you mentioned um There was a news story just the other day. There's a board that's having discussions about what does a consent agenda mean? And so to have a consent agenda policy then says, "Okay, it's for our board this is what we understand about consent agendas." But if you didn't have it I feel it's fascinating. There's a There's a school in California that has on their website a school district's policy and then they also have the school district's procedures associated to that policy. And while our district doesn't have something like that, there is a little bit of gray and a little of you know gets a little murky where we're embedding some school district procedures into policies where a policy cuz like we're going to have a consent agenda generally means this blah blah blah. Yeah. I absolutely agree. There are two things that are coming. One, the larger districts Minneapolis 196, Duluth, they do have policy and then procedures, regulations. They do have subsidiary documents all built in. It seems to I don't know if it's a resource question, but the larger districts do tend to do exactly what you're describing. Absolutely. I got I got another question, sir. Don't keep jumping. Might as well do that. It's not your Okay. So So the blue ones I get. The green ones, the legal requirements policy. And so these are so the state is saying we don't need to have a policy in this kind of scenario. Uh but you're recommending that we have a policy because there are some things like drug and alcohol testing that could be a HR standard best practice in how they do things, but technically we don't need to have a policy on it as long as we're doing it, right? If If I could add to that, it's for the position that I am in as your HR person, um if we didn't have that, I have no reference on finding statute that relates to something like drug and alcohol. So then I would have to search statutes, try to find the the correct law. Uh there could be laws that I missed because I didn't use the right search terms or I'm going to have to get on the phone to our legal counsel, which is going to cost us a lot of money. Got it. So we have to follow these no matter if we pass them or not. >> Correct. And if I may build on that point cuz that's You're absolutely right. I think the green ones remember they're they're meant for staff and for students. That's right. And so if you look at page five for example on this list, the employee employment background check policy is a legal requirements policy. It's You don't have to have adopted it. But it's very helpful to be able to turn to and say, "Okay, I know here's the latest federal state law on employment background checks." We're getting a lot of questions. We did get a lot of questions on the next page, policy 414 mandatory reporting of child neglect. That's a complex process. And it is another again a place where a staff or parents who are or kids who are wondering how do these things get reported and dealt with? It's there. The cannabis testing, that's the one we've worked so hard because it's so complex between the federal and the state governments on to for bus drivers and others. What gets tested, what doesn't get tested, how do you test it? And so it's a nice resource. That's what I would call the green ones. Would most districts have these? I think most districts have the green ones. Yes. And if So then the green ones, how do how do you how do you create them because you're re cuz the state says you don't need to have a policy, but but then you see new laws getting passed at the state level and like this is going to impact our schools. And so like we need to create a policy around it. So then your the legal nerds get back in the corner and they just kind of put together these policies and say, "Hey, here's what we recommend or here's how we think a policy would be adopted to ensure that the state law is being followed because we don't have a because cuz either our guys at our office are looking at state laws constantly saying, 'Oh, this one this this one impacts our school. We better create a policy on it. We we won't we won't have the manpower to probably do that.' So then we have to come to organizations like MSBA who are creating these policies. model policies with best practice recommended or baked into that. Yes. So if I might turn for example if you turn to page nine and you look at policy 507. 507 was the prone restraint and you know the prone restraint debates that happened in the state. And that's SROs or school resource officers became part of that debate. And MSBA participated in the process of trying to make those laws clearer and it it was a slog, but the laws were clear. For that reason we created 507.5 on school resource officers knowing that districts that didn't have school resource officers, they shouldn't bother adopting the policy. They don't need it. But it's a great policy because it explains what has to be in the the agreement with law enforcement. Again, it's that resource for districts. So if we identify what we think is a significant need you know, beyond one or two districts, we will sometimes create a green policy so that the staff and everyone else has that resource available to them to address what we seem to think is a issue coming forward. Same thing on the next page on page 11, 516.5 overdose medication. That was the Narcan policy that the Minnesota Department of Health came to us and said, "Would you please do something with us on this because our school nurses are in a very bad liability position unless we get a policy and a law in place concerning Narcan." So that's how we come up with some of the green ones. So can I just clarify? Please. If you in this case when we're missing that policy Mhm. there is statute around it. Does that protect the nurses in our district? I mean obviously it would help if we had an added policy, but if some like our I guess I'm wondering if our nurses are currently not able to do that. [clears throat] I think your nurses would feel relatively comfortable with the laws on the books. I think you're raising a very good point. Okay. If I were a nurse, I probably wouldn't want the district to affirm that I'm not going to be liable if we bring if if your district doesn't bring Narcan in, if your district would say, "No, we're going to keep it out." Then I say, "Okay then, I guess you really don't need it." But if I were a nurse, I maybe it's belt and suspenders. I would want that local affirmation that as a board we're taking the position that Narcan will be administered in the school. Okay. I think something I appreciate especially about the blue and the green is that you know, we are resource constrained. Most school districts are. We don't have general counsel in our on our staff. And so we're able to kind of utilize you and MSBA as the experts to inform us and keep us informed um about changes that we should be considering, right? And And have to abide by no matter what cuz we just don't have the capability to do that ourselves. And if I may give you an example on page 13 I have this On page 13 policy 530 in your audit I said MSBA will soon issue an update for the immunization policy. What happened with the immunization policy is on the MDH that Minnesota Department of Health website they put a statement that even though Minnesota law said that you could share immunization records the federal government's position was you could not share immunization records generally speaking. >> With who? Well, it's I don't Okay. Generally speaking. There there The federal government's position was much more constricted as to who immunization records could be shared with. The state one was broader. There's something called and I would say it's MEC or there's a state database in which immunization records could be could be in So if there's a smallpox or measles problem, the state can start to identify where do we have to concentrate efforts. Um MDH put on its website that it believes that the state position is in conflict with the federal position and that the federal position should prevail. So we worked with MDH to really understand with our lawyers, what do we do? We changed policy 530. You really should take a good look at that one cuz we did issue we took out the provision that would have allowed that sharing on that broader basis because we got a state agency saying, we don't think you have a leg to stand on even though it's a state law and our lawyer said, yeah for liability and privacy purposes. So you again, I'm using this member Cameron as a and just an example of when we create policies, we're always monitoring to see if we have to update them so that everyone can remain compliant. So I think it's So here's the issue that I I think that I'm running into is like I uh I want to agree. I want to trust the MSBA uh model policies that come out. When we receive them I think some of the challenges that then when we look at the content itself if we change a word, we remove a sentence, we add something, we don't know if it breaks the intent of the model policy. And and so all the things that we might have done over the past couple weeks around policies being adopted uh we we don't know. I and I won't even know because I'm going to say, ah logically, you know, I want a phone call if you look in my child's backpack, right? But did that break an existing policy or a state statute that that we may not be aware of. So then it's almost where, you know, candidly, do you just blanket approve mandatory policies and legal requirements because they're coming from state statutes, they're coming from uh the the the state regulatory piece and with the assumption that you guys are you know, hitting the golf ball right down the middle. There is no deviation, there is no whatever. It's like it is the best that we can to be as true as we can and what we really should be focused on and maybe are the yellows where we have more flexibility that is not tied to any legal state statutory uh uh impacts. But I don't know. I don't I'm not I'm not an expert in like the license status or the staff development but it's I don't know. I'm going to give you I'm going to give you more room to be creative even on the mandatories. But I those are the three types that we have. Uh Let me turn if I might to two documents and we can then talk about those three policies. I don't want to take too much of your time. Oh, you're you're fine. But I created a sample policy review process for your board. This is a document that I just created um to try to help with when boards engage in policy review. I will I'm I'm going to be happy to send this to you as a document that you can adjust as you want if you want. But what I tried to do in this document was kind of lay out how would a seven-person school board perhaps engage in the policy review, policy adoption process. On the first page I just gave kind of a but if you're going to do it at I don't know if you have workshops or study sessions um >> Like this. that you could each one you could schedule X number of policies to review. And then I give a checklist that of the questions at the bottom. Has the policy been reviewed? Is it legally mandatory policy? Does the policy reflect where your community is on on certain topics? To that end, before we go on, I also have and this is small print. I'm sorry. I'm going to send you the electronic copy. I have a spreadsheet that you all can adopt so you can track your policy review. You can put down the date. Okay, we reviewed this policy August 2027. So just a couple of as you look through this document most districts will if you look on page says page three and I'm not sure what happened to page but page three. Uh if you look at this document, the second page it says recommended monthly rotation three-year cycle. Most school districts in Minnesota do a three-year cycle for policy review. They do 1/3 of the policies a year. They do that in part because with elections, school boards change. It also is a good reminder of what the policies say. So we I gave you a sample year one, year two, year three approach that you could start to do if you wanted to do so. Then you turn to page four and I'm not going to go through every page but I took the series, series one about the school district. You I I uh amended this so that the policies that are numbered there are the policies you have. Not the model policies. They're the policies that you have. And I just would suggest, okay, then you would just make sure are the name is name correct? Is the legal status correct? Is the educational policy up to date? Just some questions you could ask as a board. I did that for each series. So for every series as you flip through, you'll see a checklist of things to think about. Maybe a focus and then the policies that would come under that series that you you all have adopted. So I'm going to leave that with you, Chair Cameron, if I might. I'm happy to talk about it more but I think it's probably somewhat self-explanatory but I think you were looking for maybe what would be a policy review and adoption process you could use. So do you have recommendations and I realize some of these categories have more like the one 100 series only has four and they're kind of less meaty, you could argue. Whereas, you know, some of these others have quite a like series five has many, right? Cuz it's about students. I think we're spending a lot of time on each policy which is there's great discussion but I think it's this balance of like this this isn't a this would be a very aggressive time frame from how we've been operating. Like we would be here all day every day doing policy, like eight hours a day in order to tackle this schedule. We won't be here that long. >> Well, so I mean, we're spending hours on every policy really talking about a sentence and in the technical edits only. We're not even really in the meat of the policy, you know, suggestions. So I I I will note that I will note that >> I will note that what I tried to do on page two, the three-year cycle, was I only covered six months. So I tried to leave six months where you weren't talking about policy and I tried to divide the bigger ones into several months like the 600s, I divide I divide into three months so that you didn't have to try to bite off all You're right though. You could talk about one policy for hours. Districts do that. Uh and to that point, I want to make sure you all are aware of a service we do provide and I did it just today for a very big district. They were looking at pol- policy 620, the student survey pol- 520, the student survey policy. And the the the administrative staff was the so usually staff would ask to contact me and say, Terry, the board wants to know X. All right. So uh the staff contacted me and said, uh they want to know if they have to have this these sentences. And I said, well, yes and I we were on a Zoom call and I just pulled up the the federal law, FERPA, and I said, yes, parents have a right to know about instruction materials. It's right here in federal law and the sentence that your board's asking about is quoting from there. I'm always happy to do that. Now, maybe I wouldn't be happy after a while but that is [laughter] something we get asked by districts every week. We get asked by boards every week. Do we have to have this language? Can we change this? That's I do think there's a way in the future, member Thompson. There's a better way There's got to be a way where if I delete a sentence, something pops up and says, you're going to break a law. I think >> [laughter] >> I think there's an AI to do this but I so I hear you. But you know what? We can create an app. Let's do an app. >> [laughter] >> Let's do an app. So the you I'm not dismissing what you said. You do have the old school way of calling or emailing me to say, can we change this? And I can say, no, I wouldn't touch that one. It's quoting the law or it's not quoting the law, go ahead. I mean And that's part of our MSBA membership fee. So that if we wanted to reduce our legal expenditures instead of sending our policy updates to them, we could kick it to you. You can do a quick review. So you might actually be like a step four in our review process potentially. >> That's fine. Can I put something out there as a possibility cuz I know I agree that this is a rather aggressive approach for how we've been moving. Um but do boards ever kind of say in this series, let's say there's 15 policies. This round of reviews, we're going to pick two that we're going to take a deep dive on. Everything else, we're just updating according to technical language or legal statutes. Two we're going to dive on versus reviewing every Does that make sense? Like >> make sense and that's a maybe good point to pivot and then we'll talk about your three policies. We send out and I don't know if you see it. We We don't send it anymore, but it's available our policy services newsletter. And we try to do it four times a year. The most recent came out in February. The next one will come out in June after the legislative session is over. At a minimum, if the board if this board completed the policy audit. I know it's a big task. I'm not putting it out, but if you completed this and were really diligent on keeping up with the revisions that come out in the newsletter, then I think your approach makes perfect sense. You don't need to review all 15 because 12 of them haven't changed since the last time. And by review I mean you can confirm okay, yes, especially for new members who weren't here last time you looked at that policy, but you might say, okay, here's the policy on student fundraising. This is really an accounting thing to make sure the money goes to the right place. Next policy. As both are digging into the student activity account. I I'm agreeing it didn't change it hasn't changed. The pledge of allegiance policy hasn't changed for 20 years. >> Right. So I I just I think very likely if we were to kind of review a series, we might say these are ones that in our community have been brought up or we've had complaints or we've had issues and those might be ones that we say or maybe a certain series we do dig a little bit more, but I think if we have the goal of running every single policy through the school board versus saying let Brenda kind of update us on what the legal statutes are requiring in terms of changes, you know, that might help us move a little faster and be in compliance cuz I think for some of us or I guess all of us are probably concerned about are we out of compliance with certain policies and things like that. Yeah. I mean we're not out of compliance in my mind. I think cuz cuz the law is is still going to trump our policies. We are not communicating to those who are reading our policies what the state laws are. liability, right? It's a liability. Yeah, that is a problem because I I reference policy almost every day. Like I have to look at a policy almost every day and if it's not up-to-date and statute has changed and it's not a statute that I don't remember off the top of my head, I'm going to I'm going to follow an incorrect process based on That's right. looking at it in the past. Hey Carly, I I I think you're right where is there a a group of policies and and is there a a subset that we want to pull out? Where I want to be mindful is that your interpretations on on your belief of the model policy is is satisfactory to you. It may not be for another school board member. And so you get the next school board member coming in cuz one of the core responsibilities of a school board member is reviewing policies, editing policies, making new policies. And so if we are as a school board or no offense arbitrarily you know, agreeing agreeing to the model policies of the the blue ones and the green ones, then in for a for a board member who says no, I like I don't like for example the the conflict of interest for the legal policies sub 210, someone may say I want it I want it stronger. I want it XYZ. And so if we're not going to give school board members that voice and it it may take a very long time for that particular policy to you know, to to to be completed. But I don't know. That's that's where I want to be mindful of where we're not just going to arbitrarily adopt a bunch of stuff and then not give school boards members a voice. What What if there was because I think I think we've taken since I've been on the board and you've been on the board, I think we've taken a an approach of a deep dive on every single policy mostly that comes before the board. And so it has resulted in not a lot of traction I would say. And so what if there was if if you as a school board member were concerned about a certain policy, you could say, you know, hey Amber, I want to bring this in the next few months. Can we bring this policy up for review? It would be outside of this kind of plan series, but that would allow a school board member to be able to voice, you know, and have the entire board bring that forth. My concern is that we don't I'm not saying we blanket approve everything through MSBA. I entirely agree that um our community is is unique in its own ways and so we have to think about what what is Lakeville, right? And the surrounding area. Um but we're just not moving in a way that is keeping Brenda safe. So I want to be super and the district safe, right? So I think there's a there's a compromise to be made here of how do we be efficient and move things through that only need edits to be up to up to up to speed and make sure that Brenda has the appropriate references and cross references. And also we can have a periodic of interest. I want to bring this one forward to the >> Then I think it's a board decision. It's got to be a board process. We've got to vote. We've got to decide. Hey, I mean do we want to do a blanket? Do we not? Do we want to do individual? I mean when part part of the parliamentary process of what we have with Robert's Rules is that a board member can interject and make changes and make XYZ. So I mean you just I think we have to align as a team that we're going to just go down this path much faster versus pulling things out. But but again not every board member may want to do that. They may say like I want to pull everything out. I want to talk about every single one because it this that might be the only chance that they have to be able to participate and make a drastic make a change that they think is appropriate before their term is up. Matt. Um I mean we have the benefit of having this. I mean we didn't have the audit until last year. Um and so it can kind of prioritize and I think that was a discussion we had. Prioritize to make sure that we have the mandatory ones either up-to-date or in place. I know you know, last year we were kind of hoping that we'd have an attorney coming on staff to assist in the process. Um but we're not quite yet there. But I mean that could be another thing where we just prioritize like hey, if there are these mandatory ones, I mean you know, first make sure that we're hitting those, updating them, making sure they're in alignment with law and then address the legal requirement policies to make sure we're not, you know, contradicting any existing law. I'm guessing that the I'm get I'm guessing most of the time when laws change they probably become more restrictive. Would that be fair to say? Yes, I think that's probably true. >> Yeah, so yeah, so >> about the prone restraint, the reasonable use of force. That was Yeah, I'm just thinking of where we where we would be open to liability if we're not So I think Can I just quick look at the wellness one? All right, first page 533, right? The wellness policy is a mandatory policy. And we just went through this like I think 3 weeks ago cuz I I think cuz I cuz I was like, no, we need to have this and and we need to take that out and everyone's like, no, just we're going to pass it. We have the wellness policy though, right? We have a wellness policy, but the words inside the wellness policy around do we want to have uh was it religious foods? Do we want to do cuz there was something about birthday parties or we're and then we were going to exclude it and there was there was like miscellaneous things within it. And so if we knew that everything inside the wellness policy was mandatory related, then then I then I can't remove some of the things that are that were that was written in it. You know what I mean? And so but if I did remove it, would we break a rule? But if we wanted to strengthen it, uh I mean that's just one example. You know you know what I mean? It's just we cuz we made minor changes and we and we still and we don't even know if if we broke anything. I'm wondering if like we didn't make any changes to the wellness policy. Okay, I think I lost that one. Okay. >> [laughter] >> Um we went with just the approved You know, we went with the model policy. I'm wondering like if there's a combination here of I I think through the audit you recommended kind of what Matt's referring to like man focus first stage on mandatory then legal then recommended. And so what if we did a process where we start with the mandatory 100s and mandatory 200s and then cycle back through for the legal ones next or maybe mandatory and legal could be put together. But you know, we're we're kind of triaging a little bit. Would you like to just I think in in the space of 4 minutes I can answer the question tell you here's the order to do the policies. >> Yes, that'd be great. >> [laughter] >> Ready? I'm ready. Somebody taking notes? Oh, we got lots of notes. I'm going to start with the caveat blue first. Okay. With blue, first identify and adopt the gaps. Fill the gaps. Mind the gaps, fill the gaps. So in blue, in terms of missing policies, I didn't see 419, but I think you have a tobacco policy. I will go I will go back. I I don't know why that was. Um but I will go back and work on 419. >> We have credit for learning done. Okay, yep. But if you keep going 512, uh that was again the student journalism policy. This is the one that in the last couple of years the legislature said you must have a policy on student journalism. This is where we put it. So if you don't have 512, I would adopt 512. 512 would be in the very first flight going out of the airport in the morning, 512. >> Okay. Get a 512. Go If we keep going, uh I think your cell phone policy is in your 524, so you don't have to worry about 524.5. Mhm. You just have to have a cell phone policy, and to remember Thompson's point, I did confirm in writing with MDE if I put it in 524 cell phones, you're not going to knock them for not having a separate policy, and MDE said, "You're correct, Terry." So, we did get confirmation. Okay. Go uh we keep going into the 600s cuz you have all the 500 blues. In the 600s, 606.5, you've got to get done. Okay. That's the library materials policy. This is getting It's been getting so much public attention, book banning and the like. The law says you have to have a library materials policy, and you don't At least at the time, and I apologize if I'm speaking out of turn that way, but >> We're not. You are correct. >> You That would be 512, 606.5. I think you were okay on everything else. And and in the mandatory policies, you are grabbing the state statutes content, and you're pretty much putting it in there. This is what it says. And then, uh it's or federal law. Or federal law. >> Or federal law, yes. But but then we have to then decide, do we want to strengthen it or not strengthen it, but then have to ask if we strengthen it, is it going to contradict whatever the flexibility If I'm If I might, with all due respect, I would adopt the model policy because you don't have anything, and then if you all want to revise it later, there's nothing in those policies that's going to be so controversial Not cuz they're controversial, up for debate that a sustained debate delaying implementation would be worth it. I would recommend adopt 6 512 and 606.5. Certainly reserve the ability that if you want to make changes to it, you could. But I wouldn't let debate over the substance prevent me from adopting a mandatory policy. So, question. So, in that case, when we're adopting a new policy, that would So, for other policies, if we're just updating, we can send them through the consent agenda, but for new policies that we don't have, we would have to do a first second third reading. Okay. And even I would say if we're some Not all would go to consent. Like if we make substantial changes to an existing policy, it would still >> minor. Oh, I didn't hear it. Minor. Okay. Yeah, no, I think those two should go through the If you have a three-meeting process, not everyone has a three-meeting process. That's That is To remember Thompson's point, We don't technically have to have two, do we? The law does not state what the It's it's it's yellow. I mean >> it's it's under I'm I'm just saying the law doesn't state Policy 208 is a recommended policy. The law doesn't say how many readings or meetings you have to have. Right. I mean, so if you want to rip through it, we can. I mean, there's there's >> Well, we'd have to change our policy. Yeah, first. [laughter] That'll be That'll be the first one that we do, and then you rip through it, and then you come back and update it. I think there's a better >> we have to do that, but I'm just saying it's a yellow, and so I'm not going to go through every page again, but I would say 512 606.5. Okay. That's job one. Job two, mandatory policies where the review or update box is checked. So, you have the policy. If you look, for example, on the first page, equal educational opportunity, it says review or update. When it says review or update, that means the board has a role in deciding whether to make that change. So, there were revisions. I think the revisions in the policy have to do with sexual orientation and the new definition of sexual orientation, I think. I'd have to go back and look at your version, but generally speaking, the second stage is going to be you're going to go through the blues where the review update box is checked. Okay. This So, this is where I want to be thoughtful. In those situations where we have that many mandatory policies that require review or updating, should we be thoughtful about how many we're trying to move along to make sure to get up to compliance the this go-around. I'm not saying like we can't come back to these things, but if we're out of compliance with I'm going to give you a couple that I think are really going to be slower for you in that category, if I might. So, like 102, that you're going to have to re- Board should review it. I think, if I recall correctly, what you're going to find is the your your policy's definition of sexual orientation discrimination is outdated. And so, you can have a discussion, but at the end of the day, you're going to need to follow Minnesota law. So, the discussion may not be too long in that, but if I may move through, if you go to policy 406, and this Albert, you may feel strongly about uh Is it for Yeah. Public and private personnel data. This is all law. The the change is there, but your policy was really out of shape, 406, and I would have want to have a discussion as a board on 406 so that you all understand what information about our staff is available to the public, what information about from our staff is private or confidential. So, again, the change is There's not going to be I'm not going to be a lot of discussion because it's quoting again the law, but it's a good substantive discussion for a board to have about What are What are the rules about employees and their information? Especially with as we get to AI, that's a really good conversation to have. So, when you say you have a discussion, a discussion so that we're educated on it, but at the at the end of the day, 406 is irrelevant because we have to pass it. I mean, You've already got it. You've got to update >> Well, not pass it, but like it's a it's a mandatory We're following whatever the content is according to the state. So, while we may or may not disagree with the content, the content is the state law. Is that how I mean, that's how Yes. I'm going to Now, I'm going to give Brenda the the keyword. The keyword the pass It's like password. The keyword is substantive. If you look at policy 406, it says substantive revisions. Anytime I use the word substantive, I'm saying for that policy, slow down. It's a big change from where you are right now. Maybe you're not going to be able to debate what the changes are going to be, but the changes are going to be big from where you're sitting today. So, anytime you saw the word substantive in that comment box, it's a it's it's a speed bump. Okay. If I might then, finally, staying on page that same page with 406, look up at 402, disability non-discrimination policy. It says technical edits, cross-references added. Personally, and this is not boards do different things. Personally, I would direct staff to make all the technical edits. I wouldn't even discuss them before a board member. The The fact that we had to correct a number, or the fact that a statute number changed from 602 to 429, honestly, anything that's marked technical edit doesn't change the policy a whit. It's just cleaning up little things that have changed. Can we pause there for a minute? Um I think that's an I appreciate that comment cuz what I am hearing from you is that we have some things that we should be triaging first that are missing or are substantial changes, but the technical edits would keep our policies the same as they are today. It's just making it clearer for staff what the legal references are or cross-references or changing Board of Education to School Board is a lot of them. Mhm. So, I think for our board, it's a question of do we want to give delegation of authority, is that the right term, to Superintendent Baumann and his staff to just implement technical edits, knowing that we still need to go through the review process that you've outlined here? This is not replacing the review. It's just You all would So, yes. I mean, just as a just a procedural matter, would it just make sense just to basically say all these with just the technical edits, we could just pass on a consent agenda and just say, Mhm. you know, these are these are what needs to be fixed. We trust you guys just make the you know, those specific Yes. And that's what I would do right Yes. I would I would do that. You would save yourself headaches. You don't need to get into the substance when all we're doing is adding the most recent Supreme Court case to the cross-references. I'm not belittling that. As a lawyer, that's important to me, but I just wouldn't You've got so much to do, to your point, I just wouldn't want to spend my time on the technical edits. >> As As As just a a practical question, if there was a Minnesota Supreme Court case, and they changed how something is phrased, I mean, just as a matter of like, you know, just a small minor edit as far as how it's phrased in the document, is that can still still considered a technical edit, or is it I mean, that would be reflected in the policy, or is it just a technical edit is just basically, okay, changing format, change, you know, citing citation, um you know, at the end, there's nothing substantively changing in the policy whatsoever. It's a great question. Uh The lawyer former board member, former legislator in me says, I have a very narrow sense of technical edit. >> Okay. If I'm going to err, I'm going to say the board should take a look at this because I'm so much into the board's authority. So The technical edit column is new Yeah. because I realized I was making some revisions thinking, "Oh my gosh, don't don't bring this before the board." It's just a comma that was missing kind of kind of thing. Yeah. Well, here's an example. Page nine, policy 502, it's blue, technical edits. Search of student lockers, desk, personal possessions, and students' purses. I mean, that that's a technical like we were going to just if we would have followed the model Mhm. it's one that we would never have had a conversation about. Well, and I'm not saying that, Brian. What I'm saying is like there are many that we need to address sooner than later is what I'm hearing you say. And that just because we would approve get the technical edits changed doesn't mean we wouldn't then review 502 whatever month you said of this in the cadence. That that Yeah, it's not replacing a review or is you know, but it's just it it's keeping our current policy current with these technical changes. >> Well, 526 was blue, hazing pro you know, the hazing policy and we were supposed to again, a technical but we made changes to it and it and we made good changes to it. >> make changes to them. So we did we didn't change it to like digital? I thought we did a digital thing. >> No. To leverage the value of the audit and to prioritize and execute is to get alignment. We have fallen so far behind. We need to do a little bit of let's let's get in compliance. Let's catch up. And we can still do what you're talking about uh Director Thompson. I think with full fidelity and efficacy we just need to prioritize and execute by and again, the priority and the plan that I think um has been recommended here and this process here will accomplish everything that I've heard every board member say if we just what's Nike say? Just do it. Um and if at any point in time there's any that really get your hackles up, just call me. We'll prioritize it. Um but I think we really have to move and I'm just I'm just asking politely can we take that that step forward because there's a lot of good work here that we can leverage from the efforts that uh we went through to try to move this forward. But I do I am sensitive to what you're saying, Director Thompson, very much so. Um and I would just ask you if at any time you feel there's one that you know, we just got to stop or pause on it. I'm sure the chair would feel the same way. Don't want to put words in your mouth, but you know, we want to be we just need to move forward here is my plea. What if we >> With a good plan, a really good plan. What if we in the agenda in our consent agenda because I think part of it is making sure that the public is also aware of cuz people don't listen to our meetings. So well, maybe some do, but not many. Um but what if we in the agenda just clarify in consent um these policies technical edits and then any other policy that would the the ones that we obviously are reviewing are not going to go through consent. Right. Are you saying like have a um Like a >> that identifies Yeah. Oh, that's good idea. That way the board knows that way because I would hope we all keep track of this lovely work that MSBA did for us. Uh thank you, Cherry. Um but it's I mean, I think that's the work of our our work to kind of make sure that all all of the board is up to speed on which ones we're trying to move through through consent for that reason and Yeah. How do other people feel about that? Sounds fine to me. Knowing that there's a lot to tackle in just these first but then I need you to keep Go ahead. very easy from that point on because green I would do the same thing. I would look at green and say, "Are there any green policies that are missing that you think maybe the board should consider adopting?" And that would be a substantive three to meeting in your case process. But that's the first thing I'd do is say, "Are there any green ones that's maybe in the ad maybe at administration recommends, you know what? I really think we should have the criminal background check. Well, that would really help me." And I do think you should leverage staff on the green ones. Staff may have very good input on it would be very helpful in my position if we had adopted um the drug, alcohol, and cannabis. Oh no, that was a review. That one that one was blue. And then I would do the same thing. Technical edits on green ones that you have, I would just approve them. Because they're not going to change the substance. They really are they really really are just clean up. Sometimes like when I change board of everything the board of education for your board, that would to me was a technical change um because you should be able to call yourselves what you want to call yourselves. So I tried to make it uniform throughout. Can I ask another question that I think we've dealt with? I certainly have is you know, the 200 series is about our board, how we want to operate. Most of the others are about how the content experts in our district operate, right? So how do boards weigh administrative input, revision, recommendations, their legal counsel recommendations versus like the knowledge that we bring to our seats in in balancing what a how a policy might get revised? That's a great question. I think I want to say it's a more common I think this is probably the most effective method is to get input from individuals on topics that the board is not sufficiently conversant on that it can make its own call on an issue. Okay. Uh so the the the the policy the code of ethics policy Yeah. You all can do whatever you want with the code of ethics policy. I don't think you have to bring in lawyers or others to >> Yeah. I think you all as a board can set your expectations for yourselves. Um but when it comes to drug, alcohol, and cannabis testing, if someone from staff says, "You know what? We we're really behind." Yeah. I would want their input because they're they'll know better than you because they're trying to implement the policy Mhm. and they know it's either not existent or it's not correct. >> Mhm. Uh and I it's a such professional I'm not I mean, you're just across from me. I'm not meaning you're doing anything wrong, but >> [laughter] >> that I as as an employee I would be nervous if I felt I was working with tools that were not in the toolbox or that were out of date in the toolbox. Okay. So I would listen to administration when they say "It would be helpful if the board would consider adopting this version." Sure. And the if I could just one because this is going to be a huge question for your board, every board. And AI. You all are going to have districts are going to have to adopt an AI policy. We did come out with one. It's big. This topic is huge. It is uh changing all the time. But it's a place where your board can also really stamp in what you want for education in the future for the kids of Lakeville. What do you want your staff to do with AI to make to save taxpayer money, to make jobs more efficient, to do projects that even two years ago you could never even thought to ask staff to do. The guide I gave you I did on AI. Mhm. I would not have had time, to be honest with you, non-AI to really do this. Mhm. Your board should your discussions on an AI policy are going to be the kind of robust, substantive, pedagogical, administrative, community type debate. And you should pick your moments I guess is what I'm saying in part. Sometimes staff will say, you we need this policy. Mhm. Sometimes your lawyers might say, "Hey, a new case came down. You need to change the policy." If your lawyers ever give you advice about one of our model policies, follow your lawyer's advice. Follow your lawyer's advice, but absolutely. But I would not close off advice from people who have to implement it. In fact, I would bring like I would bring in your IT staff when you start talking about AI policies. Mhm. They'll know more than I do about. Sure. And and and I'm looking at page 17. There's a policy that's in green, 618, assessment of student achievement. Obviously, we wouldn't want to make arbitrary decisions off of that and bring in the appropriate folks, but there is a certain level of accountability that the board may want to include in 618. So 618 is not a blue policy. It is a there is a state statutory you know, law about assessments in general. The MSBA has put together some content around it and then it's it's it would be a good guidance for our staff if they if we had that, but it's one of those where we could Right. talk more of. So Yep. Please let me take two off your table on page 16. Do not do anything on policy 614. I think we're going to get rid of policy 614. It's school testing plan. Uh Okay. Member Thompson, I think you alluded to this. It's a procedural policy. It just says, "How do you do testing? You know, no phones, no candy, no you know The board doesn't need to weigh in on testing procedures. Mhm. Yeah. >> Um so, we're going to probably recommend that boards uh rescind policy 614. We're taking a close look at 615. We're just trying to think of whether that's whether the board needs a policy on testing accommodations or whether there's a better way. We're working with MASC, the special ed folks, on do we want to keep 615 or is it a again a procedural thing that we don't need the board to adopt policy to do. So, I'm just trying to take a couple off the And then we also took 617 out, but you already have gotten rid of it, I think. Okay. I've taken a lot of your time. Do you want me to talk about the three policies? Sure. And I think we can just um only do 701.1 and 904 because we realized that the 704 recommendations from our auditors are not in alignment with the MSBA model policy. >> I'm going to hand you I developed a 704 for you. >> Okay. All right. And [laughter] You're on top of things. >> I'm I'm I'm sorry I'm sorry to I love that. >> take a foot >> [laughter] >> 704 this question on >> No, we have one. Did we not have one? We have one. You have one, you don't have the capitalization levels. And I'm guessing your auditors were asking about capitalization levels. >> The total threshold, I believe. They were talking about the threshold saying that I think they said 25k >> said 100k. >> Yeah, it's too low. Yes. 25 wasn't in the policy at all before. There was no number. I just looked at the policy. >> no number before. What we got So, up in I I another district in this area asked, "Do we have a capital asset policy?" Our auditors informed us we need to have one with a threshold of 10k and an aggregate of 25k. And they couldn't this school district said, "Well, where is it?" Here is another one, and they actually did add a sentence on capitalization levels in the policy. So, in 704, we went back and we added capitalization levels. To the model policy. >> To the model policy. Is it not in there? No, it is. >> It is. Yeah, so we added it to the model policy. >> Mhm. The levels that we put are just recommendations that we were taking from the auditors telling the districts they aren't set in stone. The law doesn't require it. >> auditors, which auditors are you referring >> These are I I take it to be the district's own independent >> independent financial So, that's probably GASB. There's something in GASB that's probably driving that statement. So, we could talk to our auditors and see where or what that statement needs to be. >> Yes. Or or can you make a policy that's generic enough? It says you There's a minimum, there's a maximum. Well, I think that's originally what was in there. It was no There was no threshold. >> There was no threshold. It's required. Our auditors are I think it the auditors are saying that because of GASB. I was just >> the GASB rule I just gave you. >> just at Elders, and we went through a bunch of GASB. I I shared this with you Friday. I I'm sure you didn't read it in detail like I was, but I got a class on it. So, in fairness, but GASB is probably driving that and telling you to have it in policy for liability exposure mitigation. Something I noticed today that what our auditors are recommending is different than this. And so, Brenda and Michael are going to take it back to our auditors to before we don't even need to discuss this right now, probably. Just to see if what they think of these numbers or if they want to move forward with Yeah, and just for our our audience, GASB is the Government Accounting Standards Board that governs accounting for government entities, which we are one. Sure, Kim, and I agree. If your auditors or your staff you come up with something different Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's not a law that says those sentences have to be in there. It's a more general requirement that we're trying to satisfy by putting those sentences. I think the plan would be to bring um to either confirm this or adjust the numbers for the next meeting to bring to the board. So, it would look very similar to this, just or or be the same. Yeah. >> it to Bill, and he's going to talk it over with our auditors. Okay. Thanks. There were two final policies if you'd like me to just touch on them, 701.1. >> these are both under the audit like technical edits. We were originally starting with just technical, but um these are you know were on our consent agenda from our February meeting, and they were both pulled off. So, and we haven't had time to discuss them again yet. You are correct that I would categorize these as What you have in front of you right now, I would if you have it in front of you I apologize. 701.1. I didn't hand it out. >> board book if you're on that. Or I have one copy if people need But I'll tell you at least in the version we sent your board the changes are changing Board of Education to School Board, which you can ignore. You can keep Board of Education throughout. Uh I think that was and then to the references. That's the only things that we had changed. Which doesn't mean you can't have a question, but that's all we changed. >> Right. So, So, then this goes back to Carly, you know, your your question or suggestion of do you just approve it, and we come back to it? Or is it one of those where is it a a policy that a board member has an interest in it? It's like we I want to talk about it. And so, in this particular one, you know, while we approved the budget in July or end of June that is a set number ideally throughout the course of the year, but if there is a change to the budget where cuts need to be made or we're going to spend more money than we need then then then then then that was planned in June, um how do we get notified? Getting notified every quarter or or almost every board meeting that that whenever we're touching the budget or doing any adjustments in any of the funds that we have, and I've been very meticulous about that and will continue to be. I think And I appreciate that, but like that's not in here. For me actually >> delegates to me that responsibility, and how I carry it out is what you guys are telling me as board members that you want to monitor that, and I've been very faithful to doing that, and I would expect anybody who would replace me would do the same thing. But they may not. So, if we had it in here, then it ensures transparency. >> The board would decide that. I think for me, Brian, I think all of us Well, I'll speak for myself. I'm interested in in diving into every policy like you. I think where I might differ from your approach at the moment is that I'm What I felt from the audit, what I'm hearing from you is that while all of these technical edit ones I'm interested in looking at, you know, we have however many hundred and whatever policies my priority wants to go towards the ones that are most urgent in terms of we don't have them or we are significantly behind. Knowing that these are important, too. I'm not trying to say that these shouldn't deserve discussion. It's just in my head I'm trying to triage urgency. And And so, we could put these in any I mean, this is kind of random that these two came up, right? It's not like we could have picked two other technical. So, I'm trying to think of like as a board, what order do we want to talk? Not are some worthy of talking about or not. That's kind of where I'm at. >> it We are in triage situation. We have an approach that you are recommending, Terry, that we can decide upon as a board. That we This is how we This is how we triage. Once we're done triaging, then we back up and we say, "What is the cadence that we want to take going forward as this board?" And we might for instance, this is a 6-month cycle per year, right? About? >> Mhm. We might say, "Let's do this 6-month cycle, and in the second 6 months of the year board members get to choose some different policies we review." As you know, people would have to vote on the ones that we decide to explore. But that still gives some opportunity to make sure we're staying on a cadence and also offering opportunity for exploratory review. Like that satisfies I I would say I think everybody wants to make sure we're staying up to speed, up to date and that we're not bucking our responsibilities, which is policy review and implementation and all those kinds of things. But we can't We have to triage first. We're in a bad spot. And if I might, Chair Kim, the the the very final policy was 904 was on your list. Uh There is Substantively, we didn't change the policy. I just put the definitions in alphabetical order. They weren't in alphabetical order. That doesn't mean you can't at some time discuss what liable means or what material and substantial disruption means. Uh you certainly could do that, but our recommendation at the time was simply make clean it up. No substantive change. And then if you want to come back to it at some point, absolutely. But in triage, I would just make the alphabetical put the put the definitions in alphabetical order. Yeah. Yeah, but I know we're using the word triage, which is absolutely appropriate. But in the course of the conversation, I've heard Michael say politely, um speed it up. >> Right. And I've heard Brenda say politely, Yeah. um you're putting me in jeopardy. Right. I'm looking at these and if it if it's not what it should be, I'm doing something that's totally incorrect. Um so, if if we were going to do or not if, when we do triage, Brenda, Michael, would you make a suggestion or give input in regards to where you think the hierarchy should go? Because um honestly, I think all of us would be throwing darts. Uh un- unless we understood where is your biggest jeopardy or where where's the list of your biggest jeopardy? And Michael, what is is is everything need to be on the fast track or what are the things And I know I know I know the answer to that, but what are the things that need to be on the fast track? >> Well, anything in our conversations, that's kind of what I've asked to say, you know, and I and you have been doing that is and Brenda's prepared a a bunch of Right. >> of um redline copies that are ready for us to review. We just haven't been able to get to them cuz you know, of of the good conversation on policies, but I I think that's the balance here. Yeah, and and I think that's a I think that makes sense Amber, but one of the things that um that I'm sorry. >> Terry. Terry, thank you. That Terry mentioned is he he really does have a list of already fabricated policies that if we don't want to get too crazy at the moment, I mean here are X number of policies that would help you because most of them are manned are mandated policies. And you know, so I mean I think we we could just >> Well, I think that's what you were kind of thinking about. >> of what Matt was saying too, yeah. Yeah, well, I mean there's there's 41 that are technical edits that you could approve. We could approve them in one meeting, right? On consent agenda, but there are like 80 ish that are supposed to be triaged. I mean that'd be the longest triage session. You want to do them all at once? Yeah, I mean it would take a while. Uh But I think you have to correct One thing on triage, I don't consider any of the white policies triage unless for some local reason you think I don't think there's any recommended policy that's needs to be fast tracked. Sure. You you all members of the board, you could disagree with me and say, "No, Terry, you don't understand." Yeah. But generally speaking, I'm limiting triage to the blue and green. Mhm. And I feel like I've appreciated that you lined up laid out like, let's focus on missing blue, then the review update blue, then missing green, review update green. And that's still a lot. >> Yeah, and and not all the policies are like way off. I mean even if they're blue or green and they're in the in the review update, it might just be a certain phrase here, a certain phrase there. And so they could go quickly. I guess the question is if board members want to take a closer look, you know, and revise existing language that's not part of the recommended update. So. But maybe that's where we track that ones that people are interested and we cycle back around. So if the goal is really like I feel like we are not doing our job as a board and keeping these policies up to date. So, let's get on our right track and then we cycle back. Yeah, cuz I think the concern with Director Thompson is I might never see these policies again if I don't stop and talk about it now. But then we don't move anywhere. Yeah. >> that's that's the challenge is right now if we're in like I feel like we're in the emergency department and there's blood coming out from various arteries here. Like we've got to stop the bleeding and address this in a way that keeps our district safe. And then we go in for interest. Then we say, "Okay, which ones are we especially after we've done review of certain ones?" >> Yeah. I might say, "Oh, I I'm interested in that." And Amber, I want that to go on the list of things that we go back to explore. Well, I think not just keeping our district safe, but also helping our staff and Brenda Brenda in particular, but others do their jobs better. And I think and it's also like what I might be interested in. Maybe I'm interested in, you know, what 605, whatever that is. But also as representative of our community, if there are issues boiling up or concerns that have been brought forward, I think that's when those regardless of if they're part of this, we should probably interject those to think about like, is this really how it should should function here? We we could add public comment to our work sessions. And so then it would hit it could hit two in a in a month then. Oh. And then it becomes a regular working meeting. Or I mean It is a meeting, but I mean but then it would meet the requirements of 208. Mhm. Where you have to offer public comment twice. Mhm. So you could approve. Yeah. Right. This is with the assumption that every board member wants to move forward in that direction. And again, the majority wins. So, if we have four people that want to approve them by default as a blanket statement, that's what the board decides. And there's there's like like you could literally have it done next week. It'd be done. Well, how do people feel about this conversation? >> We're talking about technical edits maybe, is what you're talking about? You can you can do technical, you can even do the mandatory. I mean if the mandatory's are just not not nothing >> are required first and second reading no matter what. We can update policy 208, get that done. Okay. [laughter] Add something. >> please. Okay, so for the mandatory and legal, even though we we aren't necessarily going to be able to throw them on the consent agenda if they're not just technical edits, in from my perspective, and I know the board owns policy, I'm not telling you what to do, but from my perspective, how I use these policies in my everyday work, we need to get through those quickly. Um and the first time around just to discuss the updates to the legal language and requirements because I use these policies in documents that I need to defend in grievances and arbitration and litigation. And if I miss step, that is a risk for the school district that I don't want on Um so, I would say the the first time around, if we could just do the the recommended language in the policies and just get that done so that I know that what I am referring to is accurate and correct. We can get them back on the cycle and get them back to you quicker. We don't have to wait 6 months or a year, but to at least get those updates out there on the website in the policies so that I know what I am using in my daily work is accurate and up to date. Then we can bring we can bring them back and we can dissect them as much as you want and take as much time as you need. Um that that would be my ask. Well, and then that to some degree is a cyclical thing that has to happen, right? Like policies are getting updated in that way, I would imagine. I mean some maybe not, but some of a frequent basis. Okay. So, are there any other questions for Terry? Thank you for giving me your time today. It was great, Terry. I talked too much. I apologize. No, it was very helpful, Terry. Yeah, but you brought us to the masters for a little bit of a >> [laughter] >> Well, you know you can contact me anytime. Uh anything I can do to help. Uh but then Brenda, you know, specifically like if you want to say, "Terry, this green one, is it how much of it's statute?" I can tell you, "Oh, it's all statute." The criminal background check, it's all statute. So I that may help speed things up as well. So you certainly can contact me anytime. You know what? It would be easy No, I don't want to say easy. For me, and maybe others disagree, but I I would just like to know what words are actually from from, you know, statutory. Yeah. I mean you're not the only one to ask that. I I mean that in I mean if you can throw it in chat GPT and just kind of like highlight it in green, call it public cloud instead, but you know. You're exactly right. That is something we're we're talking about. No, I think We couldn't do it a year ago. I think our ability to do it is much easier now. >> Yeah. And we just have to learn how to do it, but I think it's a worthy project. I am agreeing with you on that. Okay, so what I'm hearing is that Thank you, Terry. What I'm hearing is that um from our administrators board members are interested in trying to get updated so that we're in compliance, we're protecting our district, we're doing what's best for our kids too with making sure things are updated so that Brenda and others in the district can do their position jobs efficiently and effectively. But then we will kind of we'll start with the technical edits perhaps [clears throat] at a consent agenda and then go through Terry's idea of this blue green process. Um but with the idea of trying to get these um into compliance or updated as quick as possible and then implementing a uh review process um like this three-year cycle review process knowing that at any time if a board member has wants to tackle a certain one or if we're hearing community issues about a certain one that that can be interjected uh you know in addition to the cycle that we're working on. So one thing I'm hearing though too is and or maybe I'm just trying to clarify we might run technical edits through the consent agenda but we based on what you're saying Brenda there are probably a number of policies every meeting where we want to be doing first and second readings potentially and not messing with them to or just like letting them go through. Is it necessary to do first and second readings on those >> For new policies. Maybe for the yes for the new but for the ones that we have that are mandatory in nature that it's coming from the state because it doesn't really matter if it's two readings or one reading is like someone else is telling us we have to do it. If we have if it's existing you mean? Yeah. Yeah, I don't think so. >> It depends on the if it changes the substance of the policy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So if we're changing the substance of the policy then it it does require >> but then what's but what is our what are we and the community going to do about it because the state pretty much says this is what you have to do. You don't have a we don't have a we don't have a choice. Yeah, I mean we could technically do an emergency approval if we're saying it's required to be in compliance with the law but then we have to come back within a year and review it. Or we could change our 208 right? Well I mean 208 allows you to do emergency one. Yeah. You just have to state that it's an emergency and that's why you're approving it in one meeting. I don't know if I feel like that's a little for me emergency is like COVID and something or like some drastic thing has happened. Well yeah but I mean I don't know I don't know if we're creating an emergency. Brenda's like yeah we are. Well if you're [laughter] if you're out of compliance with law I mean I think you could argue. That's true. I mean we're looking at how long almost two months for a policy then to be reviewed because we do if we do one business meeting generally a month the next meeting we'd have a business meeting maybe we throw just making a number up like throw 40 policies out there. And then that would be the first reading and then working session and then the following meeting for it to be adopted and so is it reasonable for to hang out hang you know hang tight for two more months? I mean I guess it's already been so many months right? It's been three years. It's been three years right right. [laughter] I mean so the policy that exists around that was when when administration pretty much handled this and then by exception the board would intervene on a particular one and and then you got you were in a rhythm already but we've we have to do something different to make up for where we're at now and to me it's a change management it's adapting to the change and I think that you're exactly right that it may not be prudent to do that or retain that whether we classify it as an emergency or not in my view it kind of is an emergency in the sense that we need to we need to get on with the triage and we need to get on with liability mitigation. So if we do allow like you suggested Matt earlier public comment at our next work session then we could potentially those that would count for two meetings. But then you're using that work session to approve 40 meetings or 40 policies. We'd we'd approve it at the next meeting. Oh. So you is that what you're saying? Yeah. So the two meeting I mean I don't know if we're going to be ready 40s in the next meeting to like have I mean the The technical ones sure but I think those will go on consent correct? Yeah okay. 10 Yeah Brenda what do you think? We're throwing them all up there. What would you like to do? Well then I have what did I do You signed a lot. I think I did a number of series with technical edits that are ready. Amber has them they're ready to go. Um and then I could select um according to the list that Terry gave us on the mandatory and like the on fire need to get these uh adapted right now and we start with those. Um So I can go through it and and select those and send those to Amber to bring forward to to the school board along with the technical edits that I have a whole bunch of those ready to go. So do you think that I'm sorry go ahead Carly. I was just going to kind of jam A first first reading from my understanding it's got to be during a a business meeting the first first meeting not during a working session. No just as at a meeting public comment at a meeting where public comment is offered. Following But what why don't we to speed this up instead of doing work sessions why don't we if we have a block of these as you're saying why don't we just do two days meetings and once two months done we just cut the time in half rather than drag it out with with um you know one of these plus one of those? Yeah. Or two of these and It both accomplish the same thing though. Right. You know I mean we accomplish the same thing here. >> we try to get technical edits done at the next session which would be you counted them something. And then we could see how that goes. Then May could be like what you feel like are the priorities plus the The sooner you can get drafts out to the board members so we can review them you know but if you send 20 to us on Friday Right. The second one will take >> [laughter] >> Cuz then by the time Can you do I mean can you send an email to all of us? We just got to make sure we don't respond. Yes. Okay. And you could even respond back to just Brenda. And so I'm going to try to get all of the technical edits ready for the next meeting. You make your wish list. Let's do that and then we'll Wait let me >> [laughter] >> Okay and then I think the one we do need to consider those the audit one cuz that one you wanted done by June. Yes. So we just want to make sure that's yeah. Okay. Thanks everybody. I learned a lot. Um next we're going to move to the um quarterly data review picking up where we left off on uh from our last work session. Um there's a packet in the board board book uh with a presentation and I think we'll pick up where we left off. With that being said and Tracy I'll turn over you in a minute here but um math data has been added so when we're looking at this um don't miss that part cuz I think that's in between kind of where we left off um and where we started so. Is that okay? That's exactly where we're going to start. >> Okay thank you. Uh good evening everyone. Hopefully this will be more exciting than policy. >> [laughter] >> Um Michelle Sandy and I are happy to be here with you to share some of our quarterly data with you. Uh just to say as we begin as we review these numbers please note that these numbers are a snapshot in time of what our our kids were displaying. It's not a full movie or a full picture of how we look at our students academically or their success in school. Um as uh Director Cameron said you can follow the quarterly data review document that's in the the school board um uh notes. Board book. >> Board book in the board packet thank you. Uh we are going to start off with our key math trends and we are uh we're really thrilled to see the strong growth data that we are um are seeing from our elementary students especially. Uh we are seeing high proficiency rates and our students have actually already exceeded our our target goals that we set for ourselves for this school year. We see an average proficiency of our students between 73.8% and 80.8%. Um kindergarten was very um strong at 83% this winter. Um grade two was actually 10 points higher which is our largest gain for our elementary students and um you'll see that at the elementary we are um between that 73.8 and um a little bit above 80. Did you have a question? >> Tracy one of the things I yeah hold on. Um Tracy one of the things I've asked to you know over the past year when we were talking about dashboards and and metrics um was aberrancies. Good aberrancies and and not so good aberrancies and and understanding what created that aberrancy and either duplicating good ones or finding ways to nullify the the not so good ones. So is it too early to ask the question on grade two? Um what why is that aberrancy a 10 point spike? Um and then when you look at at grade six seven and eight well I'll say six and seven it's it starts getting a little scarier and nine. So so do are did you recog is anything been determined with the >> Yeah you you ask a great question and it's one that we're asking ourselves as well. We don't want to make any assumptions based on the data and it is early because we're just seeing winter results and we want to follow this through to spring to see any changes that we might see in those scores as we move forward. So we don't want to assume but I think Sandy can share some of the pieces that she's looking at. Thank you for that question. First and foremost I want to commend our teachers at the elementary level. They have been putting considerable amount of work over the last couple of years of not only working towards implementation of the new standards but implementation of bridges. This is the first time we've ever really had the opportunity to set aside 60 hours of professional development. And so last year our teachers in grades 4 and 5 had 60 hours while we flip flopped with read act and this year our K-3 teachers have that opportunity. And it's really been skillfully led by our teaching and learning coordinators. They've been have been doing a phenomenal job. The other piece that I would state is when you're comparing elementary maybe to secondary elementary's just a little bit further along in the standards based review process. We started our standards based review process at the elementary level in about 2020 >> [clears throat] >> anticipating the new standards so we spent a considerable amount of time front loading that professional development so that we could link it then moving forward to that new resource. Now at the secondary level as you noted we're in the early phases of the standard based review process. We have a phenomenal coordinator as well at the secondary level who is leading that. And next year our secondary teachers will be field testing resources to bring forward to the board for approval. So we're just a little bit further behind in that process but well within the trajectory to be in line with the full implementation for those new standards. So Sandy did you just mention you had training for grades 4 and 5? We had training for 4 and 5 for bridges last year because if you recall grades K and 3 were doing read act and then we flip flopped it. So now 4 and 5 are in the thick of things with read act training and then K-3. What really was a blessing in disguise was read act because we had to set aside 60 hours of professional development for read act training at the elementary level and it really offered us the opportunity to move a little bit ahead in the standards based review process for math because as you know we don't have courses at the elementary. If you're an elementary teacher you teach all of those. So we took advantage of those extra PD days and put it in place for math and then flip flopped it. So that was done strategically to take advantage of that time. I think it's also interesting to know with your grade 9 numbers that you've removed 190 of kind of the highest math students. So I just think that's important in that that number. This is not all of our ninth graders. >> the same cohort. Yeah. So and it really when you look at that particular one it does reflect a different testing group so thank you for that. And it's really based on those students who were enrolled in a higher level math course because it didn't necessarily align then to the assessment so it did make sense. So thank you for calling that out. Okay. We also disaggregated our math data by our special education students or students who are receiving special education services. Please remember that these are not students who are just receiving services for math. This is our entire group of students who are receiving special education services and we see gains made in grades 1 through 5 as well. Grade 2 is replicating what we saw with our total population and so we're seeing the same patterns here. We also worked with our principals to disaggregate this data by their buildings so they were able to look at how they are faring as a site. And we looked at how we are what themes we're seeing across the district to be able to shore up those systems that we might have in place that are are supporting us or taking away from what we need to do with our students. Could we potentially see the disaggregated data for ELL students as well? We could that is not something that was on our metrics dashboard. That's why we didn't bring it to you but that is something that we've been looking at as an administrative team. Yeah. I'm just thinking like depending on reading proficiency for both math and reading I imagine some of the math is probably impacted. So you're thinking our 80% score for elementary might actually be higher because you're baking in ELL students and in special education in that in that that metric as well. Correct. >> So this is our entire population. But then if you had another view non special education ELL then then the metrics would be different. >> only like I think it's important for us to disaggregate these groups and see how they're doing right? So where where do we push resources or I imagine that's part of what you're looking at is like if we see much lower scores in certain groups that would be targeted resources for those groups. It is and that's what our departments are working on together to identify where does the the data support the direction we want to go? How do we budget for that? Where do we put our resources accordingly? Do you have certain buildings that are I'm sorry. >> [laughter] >> Going back to Paul's question. I mean are you guys able to look at and see cuz if we're at 80% for instance I mean that's going to be the average so some schools are probably above 80% and some are below. I mean is your staff looking at okay what are those schools that are higher? What are they doing that we can pick up and you know bring that across the district? Yeah we are looking into those themes. What we want to remember too is that it's different cohorts of students in our different buildings. There's different demographics. When we're looking at EL there's different levels of EL that we have to be mindful of. Some students are newcomers. They are brand new to the district versus students who might have been in the program for 5 or 6 years. Our special ed as well. There's different levels of programming. So we can't just compare one school to another school because there's so many variables that make up that cohort of students that we want to be mindful of that. But when we're looking at themes we want to take what are those teaching practices that are happening in particular buildings or maybe even how is the the principal guiding that differently in a building? We're looking at all of those aspects. And and do we have the data where you can track those cohorts like on a longitudinal tudinal standpoint so you can see how kids are progressing year to year? Um even depending on the various teachers that they're having. We do. Yes. But I do think springboarding off of Matt's comment which springboarded off of my comment um I know there are different populations in each of the schools. Okay? Cohorts populations. But one of the things you know if we're making decisions on money on resources and all the things that everybody's aware of I think it would be helpful and last year we actually asked for data all the way down to the classroom level and I I know there was some debate on that. But shouldn't the board know what if there 5 6 10 20 elementary schools because everything is growing or middle schools or high schools shouldn't shouldn't we know instead of an average what the schools which schools are having difficulty and which which schools aren't because it I think it would help us in decision making again in regards to resources if we understood that better. When when we see an average um it's it's a great number but but we don't really know who's struggling and who's not struggling. Who's you know back to what Matt said who's who's struggling and who's succeeding? The average doesn't tell you that. The average just shows you it just blinds everybody together. I mean there's it's that old joke about an actuary who drowned in the middle of the river because the average height of the the river was 5 ft and nobody knows what the middle of the river is. And and I think that's really the You're saying for like resource allocation? Yes for resource allocation. >> me where I'm at is and I think I take this maybe from my work at the university and I know we're not the board of regents but I like to think we are sometimes. For Lakeville and and that is we're at the system level. That's how I think of this and I and I need to see system level trends. So I appreciate this data but what I do expect is that the superintendent and staff are monitoring how we drive these system numbers up. So it's not my job to understand how you're going to drive the number or where the resource should be allocated. It's it's your job to to bring that to us to say you know here's where we're seeing progress, we need to move money here, we need to add staff here or whatever. But I'm not going to look at building level data, at classroom level data, and be able to understand from a system perspective, my role in that. Um And and I think that's, you know, when we have 12,000 plus students, our role is to make sure the whole system is improving, and that the staff's job is to bring to us to do it in your daily work, and to bring to me, to bring to us recommendations um when when you need our approval, but but your job is to move these numbers up. Um and however you're going to get there is is kind of yours to figure out. Um not to Sorry, I feel like I'm being very like Well, we don't [laughter] have any of it, but like we want to see the numbers improve, right? And that's the whole point of the the dashboard and setting these goals. And we need to keep monitoring that progress. But how how that progress happens is not necessarily it's not our expertise, and it's not where where I think our what we're what we're monitoring. We don't have the context for a lot of it. So, even as you're explaining different programs are in different schools, different students are in different schools, and so to explain the data to that level is not really Yeah. But I mean, I think there might be instances where you say, hey, you know, after looking at the data, we found out that this school and this principal is leading this initiative with this curriculum that was working really well, and now we're spreading it to other schools. I mean, that that's kind of exciting things to hear about if you're on the board, you know, where we found success somewhere, we're going [clears throat] to try to replicate it across the district. >> Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And again, it's not that I'm going to be pointing at classrooms. Don't Don't get me wrong. >> interest though to like compare buildings and to say, this school is great, and this school is awful, without understanding what makes up that statement, whether it's student demographics, and there is some, in my opinion, like people performance issues at times, right? And I expect Superintendent Bauman to address that with principals and then down the chain, but that us comparing schools isn't going to help drive these numbers. I think what what is is making sure our staff are monitoring those things. But Yeah, Amber, I want to be if if I may, Brian. I want to be really clear. I think we need to be careful um about this school's awful or whatever terminology you want to use. I'm not suggesting that's what we're saying here. What I'm suggesting is the more data we understand, the stronger and the better decisions we can make on revenue and resources. And that will help. So, it's not like you're a bad school, you're a good school. That's not the intent here. I want to be really clear. I mean, we get metrics at the capacity level for each elementary building, and and we know kind of like which ones are at high capacity and which one is not. I appreciate the average of the the average, which is good, but I think what I don't know is like what like how far could we go? Cuz if there's another school that's actually at 95%, like I I like like that number's actually possible, because there's another school that can get there. Now again, demographics, who knows, teaching teaching staff, uh whatever, it plays a huge part, but if there's three schools that are in the 30s and the 40s, and then the rest of them are actually in the 90s, and but yet the grade two level is 80%, that doesn't really tell the full story either. >> So, so maybe what we need, not necessarily building level data, but when we're looking at stats, what's the variation across? So, what is the standard deviation, you know, for looking at averages? What is the standard deviation across the buildings? Or are there is there general kind of consistency, and not naming things, but is this kind of the number we're seeing across the school? So, what is the span around those? But how does that differ from from capacity levels for a school, or for a middle school, or elementary? What? Yeah, so everything everybody's saying here is is there every every point is correct and accurate. Our approach is to establish the standards, establish, and take a systems approach. You have every right to expect that if school A is having great success at something and school B is not, you should believe and know that we are uh looking at that, and um through our teaching and learning department and our processes there that we are uh accounting for that. But I guess I have to ask at some level you have to trust that we are going to address these. We have given you a plethora of data. There's the QDR that we're doing here. There's also a visualization that we have uh prepared for you as a walk-up to this. So, I think a lot of the data that you're talking about, you have. Mhm. Um and I I want to keep the conversation focused on what you've asked us to provide, which is this QDR in the manner in which we have uh provided it, but um we are embarked on a journey to elevate our performance across the system, and there's right now we're just talking about um our comparing our data from fall to spring in just one testing band of math and reading. MCA is kind of the bigger thing. Mhm. Um and that's I think aren't we in testing right now? >> just today. Right now. Yeah. So I think there's more, as Tracy said earlier, there's more just I don't want to get bogged down in the weeds too much and think about it on systems. Now, when we start talking about resource allocation, which I think I've heard multiple times, we [clears throat] are resource constrained. I think everybody knows this. And our responsibility as an administration is to bring to the board recommendations based on competent analysis with regard to resource allocations and answer all your questions about that to the to the end of improving our student performance across the system, whether secondary or elementary or school to school. And I think we can do that Mhm. um because we have been listening and implementing, and we're continuing to do that. One of the biggest challenges we have right now is um doing that data investigation um at a deep level in order to uh articulate what it is exactly our pain points or our issues that are systemic issues that we can resolve um to get to where I think everybody wants to go. Um and again, I'm just going to ask you for your trust that we are committed to doing this work deeply, and I think you'll see results um based on how we bring that back to you, and the information that we've already are providing you. So, I I just ask for that. Sure. Kim. So, I have a question about um the special education data. Um when we're comparing special education students, um as it says on here, this is any student identified in special education. I think the the bigger concern I have with the accuracy of the data is if the students actually had access to the core curriculum in the core instruction, whether it was pull-out um and they were provided intervention or um were in that core content, because if they didn't have access to the core content, then it wouldn't make sense or it would make sense that their scores would be lower. So, um can you provide some um some information around that? Like are all of these special ed students, do they all have access to core? Yeah, I I would say yes, be we didn't disaggregate the data by that um for students who are only recei- who may be receiving reading services or math services, um the data in here is a student who receives any special education services. So, um know that I mean, we are looking at that and digging down deeper into that, because >> Okay. I think that that does skew the numbers on what it is, and um gets to Just for clarification for for the other board members is when a student is identified for special education, there are several decisions that a team has to make on how instruction is provided. Sometimes they're pulled out of their class for just a little bit of time, and they're getting an intervention on skills that they're are missing, like skill gaps. Sometimes they're fully pulled out because the skill gap is so wide that them being in that general education curriculum would be too too much for them. We have to go back and and reteach things before we can work them back in. So, my question is, when I'm looking at the special education data, and we're comparing it to students that are always in core curriculum, gen ed, and you look at the special ed data, that's going to look different if they're not exposed to the core curriculum, cuz now we're testing them on something that they've never been exposed to. So again, I just think that when you're looking at some of those disaggregated numbers, you need to be cautious in how you interpret those. I think it's also with with with the special education numbers, I think it's helpful to like look at subsections of student populations, so I appreciate that. I'm interested in this in in refining it more. You know, we have students in the gifted programs who receive services, right? So, I want to be careful too like just because you're receiving special ed services doesn't mean we the district doesn't understand that you're highly capable or you know what uh so, I think that's important. And I know you know that. >> Or EL services. >> Or EL or whatever. [laughter] Yes. That there's a range in any group people. Yeah. Matt, yeah. Um you know, I do want to say I mean I'm encouraged by this and I like seeing the data. We do have I mean we can go school level on Infinite Campus. Like all the board members have access to that. And so, I mean you can see the variation in different schools and I just think it's interesting. I love hearing what you guys are doing and how you're using the data to push this thing forward. I think it's encouraging as a board member. So, then we can track it too, right? I do have another question related to the FastBridge stuff, but just on a tracking purposes are we able to correlate you know, not meeting benchmark with students who are then also failing classes? And I know that might apply more to like the middle school level cuz I don't know that we track failing in elementary school. But are we are we seeing a correlation between the FastBridge scores and students that are failing? Yeah. We are seeing a correlation between those FastBridge scores and and as what you'll see later on when as we go through the data with those students who are failing. Okay. I mean is it high percentage? Um there is a direct correlation. I don't know I don't have the data in front of me to say what percentage it is, but it is a high correlation. Can I keep going? Okay. Yep. Yeah, sure. I'll say this. Uh we did provide some additional information around action steps that we're taking, how we're trying to build stronger systems of support for both math and literacy. I can't speak more highly about the systems that um Sandy and her team are teaching and learning coordinators are putting into place to help support our teachers. You've seen the four phases of our standards-based review process, making sure that our teachers know exactly what those standards are and what students need to know and be able to do and then provide finding resources that align with those standards has been really important to get us through this. And so, they are doing just outstanding work there. So, let's move on to our grade point average for our students. And um just so you know, for high school this was at the end of the semester. So, this would have been in um January. And for our middle school, our GPAs are rolling. So, our grades are rolling. There's not like an end point. And so, this is not updated as of today. It's from when we printed this document in the first place. But our grade point averages are stable. Our goal was around 3.3 for all grade levels. And so, we're remaining pretty stable with those GPAs. Sandy, do you want to talk about action steps? So, some action steps around the grade point average, we have our counselors and our deans and our APs. They're monitoring and providing academic counseling to ensure that our students are on track for graduation. In addition, students who may not be on track for graduation are identified for credit recovery through our Lakeville Pathways Academy. And as you know, Lakeville Area Schools policy 620 credit for learning has been revised meaning that weighted grades will be removed for the class of 2030 and any subsequent classes. How do you think that will affect the high school GPAs? I mean I would think we'd see a significant decrease. So, I I had actually asked Emily that and it wasn't as big as I thought. >> Yeah, the change. >> We'll see. I mean it will make a difference because obviously if you're kept being calculated calculating an average with a right 5-point scale and a 4-point scale combined, you're going to see an increase. But it wasn't it wasn't as significant as we had anticipated it to be. I would expect that we would see a shift and then it really does you know, take a couple of years to establish a well, 3 years to establish a data trend. So, we might see some fluctuation in in the meantime. I bet there there'll be probably some kids that don't take AP and take regular and then get A's and then help our GPA. >> Right, that's true. Yeah. So. Or concurrent enrollment. Or concurrent enrollment. We just talked about that again today. >> [laughter] >> For sure. Great. Moving on to failing one or more courses. Again, this was at the end of semester one or January that the end of January for our high school students. And this is a rolling failure rate for our middle schools. And compared to students that had in progress failure rates in the fall to our winter at the final semester, we had some improvements there. We saw the number of students the percent of students actually decreased in the number of failures which told us that our system is really working to ensure that those students are passing their classes and they're they're learning along with that. At the middle school we saw an increase in grades 8 and 7 in a decrease in grade 6. And if you'll recall that we talked about in the fall that our students in 7th and 8th grade had the 50% No fail out. Yeah, yeah, no least harmful F. Thank you. And so, they are getting used to a new way of looking at grading practices. And so, we expected to see a few more failures, but our teachers and our staff are working hard to make sure that those students are turning work in and passing those those classes. Do you want to talk about it? Oh, sorry. Do we ever hold students back saying you're not ready to move on to the next grade? Do you want to talk about that? So, we do have some retention procedures in our district and best practice and research really states to do that early on. It does have some significant impacts if you do it later. That doesn't mean that you wouldn't consider it, but your best success rate is if you do it in K1. And the success rate isn't higher. Usually when it happens in higher grades, you have a higher dropout rate. So, when you say K1 like kindergarten first grade and that's it. And so, once students are in fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade, we're not holding kids back. We're going to push them through no matter what. Is that how I'm I mean not no matter what, but they're going to push them through. We're going to get them I mean I I guess I feel like the there's a compounding effect where if you get a C in fifth grade and then you're not prepared for sixth grade, then you get a C minus in sixth grade, you know, D plus in seventh unless some sort of remediation effort is coming is I mean if they're not proficient to move forward, we is there I maybe that's a separate conversation for us, but it's scary. >> would want to be putting in place is re-engagement and intervention strategies and work through some strategies and supports that will accelerate to close that achievement gap because the research really isn't supporting that retention particularly at the older grades. And as we know, those are some things that we're looking further into particularly at the secondary level where we have some some gaps and some holes. I mean if this is what if I'm reading the math the the percentage, it's 24. 24% of seventh graders are failing one or more class. Is that how I'm reading it? At that moment in time. >> At this moment in time. Right, so the semester's not over. They could get a C or whatever they could pass or for but at the moment 25% of our students are have that seems like a lot. I mean if we've got >> It's because they didn't put the the assignments in the grade book yet, Brian. Yes. >> [laughter] >> That's that's that's what it is. Yep. Am I remembering too that is it BAR is only ninth grade? Mhm. That's correct. So, I think that is an interesting number here. 10% to you know, just under seven. Now, the other ones aren't that far behind, but That's the same thing. >> to like have you look at is BAR effective at helping students with you know, succeed academically and do we need to think about BAR in all? Yeah, do we need more BARs? I mean not BARs. >> [laughter] >> I mean BARs. I mean BARs. Another conversation we just had today. We just met with our two high school principals and our pathways principal to talk a little bit more about BAR and how our system is supporting that work moving forward because we do think it is so important for our students. And we've seen some we've seen a reflection of that in some of our numbers. I mean the least harmful F, right? Those grade line those grade nine students had that last year and they were able to mature or adjust and they're at 6.8%, but again grade 8 7 again I get it I get it's middle school, but Well, yeah, I think looking at the transition from eighth to ninth that is that's significant and that that's a hard transition for kids, right? And somehow we're able we have the the lowest issue with ninth grade and I think that's a really interesting data point. [clears throat] >> They're getting an hour more of sleep. That's true. Um a large piece of uh bar is looking at data and constantly reflecting on how the students are doing and then helping the teachers to support those students that um need additional supports. Thank you. So Yeah. And I know that I know that we're it's in April and we've got budget budgetary conversations that will need to be had maybe at the next board meeting or coming up cuz we've got to approve the budget for the next school year by end of June. And so uh I would assume or I'm hoping this is an opportunity where you've now got data to validate we need more resources in these areas and what does that look like? But but again we'll we'll wait for your proposal and say, "Hey, here's where we want to allocate resources for the upcoming school year and where they ought to go." So On the snapshot of the middle school um failure rates or at failing one class, do we know like for this same time period this year where we were at last year? Uh we we do. I just don't have that in front of me here. >> is it drastically higher this year than it was last year or the year prior to that? >> say drastic but it is higher. Okay. But we do have some trend data. And we you know, this is failing one or more classes. It's like you know, um in middle school you know, a lot of this could be one class where there some classes that stood out um predominantly as as being the ones that kids are failing more often as opposed to the others. Um it it varied um between the buildings um which was some of the um data we were looking at. Um it we really looked at uh math and um literacy data were the two that um we actually pulled for our principals to take a look at and between all of the buildings there were variation. And some of the systems level pieces that that um was showing us is that we have variation between how teachers grade in their classrooms and what their grading practices might be. And so as we are moving into standards based review and we're talking about um do teachers know what they're supposed to teach, right? The standards. Um do they know what students need to know and be able to do? As we're developing common assessments along with that, now we have to analyze common assessments. Are we are we analyzing those in the same way from teacher to teacher, from school to school? And so we realize we don't necessarily have common grading practices across the board. And so that factors into some of this data as well as we're looking at it. I think another piece to add to that is not only to understand what students need to know and do as it relates to the grade level benchmarks but at what level of rigor. And so is classroom A compared to classroom B teaching it at that same level of rigor? And that's a really um a huge component of the work that we do in standards based review when we're unpacking those standards to really understand what we call the depth of knowledge or the DOK because we really want to make sure that if um say for example the MCAs assessing here at this level of rigor, are we teaching at that level of rigor or is there um a disconnect? So that's part of the work in the standards based review. So in addition to the grading practices, it's really about delivery of those benchmarks and at the level of complexity and the level of rigor. And then for those students who might need scaffolding or accessibility in order to reach that level of rigor whether they're identified for special education or EL or just a general education um student, how are we re-engaging the student so that they're be able to access that complex benchmark. That that seems like a lot of variability. I mean they just I mean I don't want to call it scale scale to one to 10. It just seems it seems high. I mean if if we're if we're trying cuz there's there's no consistency is what I'm hearing. I mean you depends on which teacher you go to. One teacher might be a a tougher grader or maybe more rigorous, more relaxed. Uh one's meeting standards, one's not meeting one is not meeting standards. And then for for the students, where is the consistency for for them as they go to the various classrooms for what needs to be taught. So is this And that's really the work of the standards based review to ensure that we have a guaranteed and viable curriculum and that it's cohesive across all of our buildings and that we do have that consistency um and that our principals are support supported so they know what they need to be looking for when they go into the classroom and how do they support their teachers? If you had to give yourself if you had to give these schools a grade, not the schools the curriculum and the standard based, I mean are we at 60%? Are we at 90%? We're almost there or or is the variation really bad and we're at 30% and there's a lot we need to do to get recalibrated and get all the staff not the staff but the the curriculum and the standards based review in sync. I think um if we're going to speak particularly to secondary, they're just entering phase three where you're really looking at that standardization where you're identifying what that core resource is and you're creating that scope and sequence to ensure that consistency. So in all fairness, we do have some inconsistency in our system because we haven't reached that space yet at the secondary level in our standards based review. Um and potentially it's too early to tell. It's just one um snapshot in a larger photo album for the elementary level. But what we did notice is with implementing Bridges, we didn't have an implementation dip and that's usually an anomaly. Usually when you're doing something new you have an implementation dip. Um but I think that's a testament to our teachers and their efforts and their hard work and then having a target of which they're reaching which was really delivered by our coordinators to have that consistency. So um I think we have some space to work in in that standards based review um because we do have some unevenness right now. Hm. So wild guess. Can I just ask a question about just the budget cuts that I was quite sensitive to a number of years ago around English in the middle schools? Are we noticing any trends there in terms of any impact on student literacy at that level? From the data that I've been looking at um and fairly I guess can we still say we're new, Tracy? >> Nope. >> [laughter] >> Um but at the secondary level, I don't think we've seen in that trend data um any changes very dramatic changes as it relates to our literacy at this point in time. So you feel like the time that they have is sufficient for what >> Yeah. in terms of meeting those standards. >> And one of our coordinators at the secondary level um one of her pieces is to work really closely with the ELA teachers and the literacy teachers in grade six and seven to ensure that we have some continuity and some cohesiveness um and it's a fantastic group. They're excited about the work and they're also excited about implementing the new standards, learning about Read Act at the secondary level because that will go on board next year for our ELA teachers. And they have a heavy lift our secondary ELA teachers. Not only will they have the Read Act next year, they're implementing new benchmarks and as you know, they're going to be implementing a new resource. It is a heavy lift but it is a great synergy because they'll be able to directly apply their PD with the new resources and the new um benchmarks. So it's it's kind of like a um an inter- interesting dynamic. Do you want to move to graduation rates? Yes. Great. Sorry, did you have a question? Nope. I was just just thinking in my head you guys you need you need some more people. >> [laughter] >> We're a mighty we're a mighty duo. Talking out loud. >> [laughter] >> I think there was a three million dollar number thrown around a couple of >> [laughter] >> I I thought it was 18 million. Um taking a look at our graduation rates. Um these graduation rates have just recently been um called to our attention and sent out from the state level. And so we didn't have these in the earlier um book for you. And so we were happy to be able to um add this. Um we are proud of our four-year graduation rate which shows from 2025 which is nine 93.1% and this is an increase of 1.5% for us as a district and it is 8.2% above the state of Minnesota. So we're very proud of um of that increased number. Um we also look at our five, six, and seven-year graduation rates. And what I'd like to explain to you is that the five-year graduation rate is what they do is they'll take the graduation rate from 2024. In this case, we had a 91.6 graduation rate. They'll recalculate it with the students who have graduated since 2024 and we moved up to 94.6 graduation rate for 2025 for a five-year rate. And our seven-year rate would have been students the cohort of students who graduated in 2022. That was 92.7% and we've moved that to a 94.8%. So we're seeing gains in all of those graduation rates across the board. Hm. Any questions around graduation rates? I Well, I appreciate the graduation rate. I'm glad that we've we've got students with the diploma. They move on to within their next chapter in life. I think for me I'd love to see where is their proficiency along with that graduation graduation rate. Just are we are we graduating more kids and they're getting and they're and they're smarter or are we graduating more kids the baseline is the same or are we graduating more kids cuz they just passed all the classes and they're not at the at previous their it's an unfavorable trend if that makes sense. I don't see that as a as a metric but again I I didn't ask for that but that would be interesting to see. Okay, we've got kids graduating but at what level are they graduating at? Make sense? The proficiency rate. Yeah, in I I think in response to to your statement um we understand that and that encompasses the rigor that's in the classroom that are we meeting the standards but then I also want to caution that these tests Fast Bridge and MCA are one day in time. It's a snapshot. It doesn't show [snorts] the full students academic history. So, I thought we were going to capture capture MCA not MCA but ACT scores. Was that >> We have that. We have that? Yeah. And I think maybe also pairing grade point average with graduation rates, right? I mean, you could look at the bands of GPA. How many are summa and magna? I can add one more piece to that to to your question Dr. Townson. One of the things that we have tracked over time to the best of our ability to the availability of the data cuz it's not our own is students that go to a two or four-year college or technical college and are required to take the English and math assessment. And so what we've done is we track over we had tracked over time the percentage of students that were required to take a remedi remedial course before they can access their regular coursework in college. We saw a decrease in those numbers over time. I obviously don't like have them readily available in front of me but that's another thing. The problem with that data is that there's so much of a lag on it that it doesn't really give us real-time information to engage with in terms of making any type of adjustment in our system to to meet that requirement but it's just an interesting piece to look at. When we first when the data first became available this was I don't know quite a number of years ago. Um we saw some high numbers in students that were required to take those courses and then worked with the principals and the staff there to and saw those numbers actually coming down. So, um it's just one more you know, it's it's just one more piece of information. It doesn't have a super high level of value because we can't react to it sort of like the MCA they're postmortem um but it is something interesting to look at. Like how many of our kids where they going? How are they doing when they get there? Are they coming out of our system prepared for whatever their next step is? And then of course that only is only tracking students that choose a college route. I saw on social media and and I'm not saying this is true or not true cuz it's social media but I think I think I read something where a high school student sued the high school because she didn't do very well at the collegiate level. >> Proficiency. And because she wasn't proficient cuz the high school gave her a certain GPA. I didn't read all the details. It was just it was a >> to be clear the details is the individual was not from Lakeville Area Schools. >> [laughter] >> Good detail. Good detail. But that's that's a side note. But it is one of those where Yeah, >> [laughter] >> but it's one of those where we you know, we've got good graduation rates but how do we also then validate that we're graduating you know, capable, qualified, ready to go on to tackle the world is you know, what we want and you know, there are indicators. I think Lakeville Area Schools doesn't fall into the category of graduating um people unprepared. Now, you might find instances um but I get your point and we all understand that and I think it starts before in in pre-K, right? That's where it starts for us and I think we're we're on the right track here doing the right things and it's fair for you to ask that. Um and maybe we can have an internal conversation about what's a way to metric that better to help you have confidence that our students are graduating and they are ready to go tackle. Yeah. I guess like I would look at it. I think we're really focusing in on one metric which is the academic success and I think it's more of a profile of a student than academic success because that's going to look different for any student that graduates. Like it's not just about did you get a 3.5 or 4.0? I mean, I graduated with students that got a 4.0 and they filled out in college because they didn't have social skills and work study skills and all of those other soft skills that sometimes they're overlooked and and I look at the importance of those um just entering the workforce and knowing how to interact with people is is a big deal too. Like those are things that have to be taught as well. So, it's more of a profile of a of a graduate than just like a GPA and and when I think about that I also think about our students in special education. I mean, that looks different for them too and just because they may not have the highest GPA or maybe they do. I mean, sometimes we're twice exceptional as well. Um they can have success just like any other student and it can look different. Um so then I think about like the students that went on and did something. Did they after they graduated did they get a job? Like what are what are those like soft types of survey skills that you can send out to kids after they graduate. Did you go on to a a techni- technical school or did you graduate from a college? Because I think that is a little bit more information on are they successful with what they have planned after they graduate not just like did you do something and go on to a four-year school and get a degree? Like I I just think about that those pieces as well and when I think about allocating resources like like Paul had said I also think about yeah, it's great that we have interventions but then you know, our counselors are also providing some of those soft skills when they're doing social skills and our 360 workers are also supplying you know, resources for families so that they can kids can go home and they have full bellies you know, when they come to school the next day and all of those things factor into what makes our school successful. The other piece too that we have on our community facing website is we have some data from SLEDs which is the state wide longitudinal educational data system. It is a little bit lagging in its data. >> Is it in three years or is it three years or four? Um and the latest one that we have on our community facing website that kind of speaks to what Dr. McDonald was speaking to is that 7% of those who entered college needed some developmental education. So, that kind of leads to what Emily was sharing but we do track that data on SLEDs and it is part of the report that we send out to the Department of education as it relates to the comprehensive achievement and civic readiness plan. And so that's one part that's on there and it is public facing for all of our community to see some of that SLEDs data and where they are how many of our students go into post-secondary education, how many go directly into the workforce. I think based on this data we tracked 16% of our grads into the workforce immediately after graduation. So, all of that is available for our community on our website. I would just also add that one of the things that Grace Olson and I have been working on is on our alumni relations and if we really to what Jen was saying if we want to look at a more comprehensive picture of our students that are leaving our system, we need the qualitative as well as the quantitative data points. So, last year she and her team really built up access on our website to be able to to capture contact information for our graduates and then our next step around that is to build out a survey to help us understand after they leave our system what was their experience in our system. Because I think all of these little pieces together give us the best chance of understanding how our system is performing and where we might need to be plugging in a little bit differently. Now, the timeline for the alumni survey got a little waylaid cuz we've had a couple babies in between. Our team's been a little busy but we're going to circle back on that as well. You want to bring us home with the attendance data? >> Um really quickly I do want to acknowledge on the graduation rates some of the as we're looking at this data, I want to make sure that we talk about the work that our guidance counselors have been doing at the high school. That was a outstanding addition to our high schools to provide academic support to our students when they need it. Additionally, Margaret Gear and Janet McBride at Lakeville Pathways are doing an outstanding job supporting our students with credit recovery so that students can go to them and they can take portions of classes that they failed rather than taking courses all over again. And so they have been able to support our students in recovering credits more quickly than they would if they had to take a full year or a semester course all over again. So that's been some great work that's happening there to support our kids. I was going to mention that at our next meeting there'll be a high school update and that will include counseling update. So It's two yeah, we'll have the general overview high school update from the principals and then we will have a separate presentation on the counseling. Will pathways be there as well? Pathways will be there as well. Okay. Attendance data and I'm going to have Michelle help with this one. I will explain the what the attendance data means. The Minnesota Department of Education has us report 90% attendance data and so it's when students are present 90% of the time. Um as you can imagine at the beginning of the school year they have 100% attendance on the first day, right? And as we go throughout the school year that it were they're going to miss more days of school throughout the year and so that attendance data will actually trend downwards. So what we're seeing though is that our baseline at elementary was 94.47% and at winter we're at 94.67% at the elementary. At the middle we are at 94.48% and at the high school we're at 92.1 which in the spring our baseline was 89.76. >> So do you want to speak to those? Yeah, so I mean I think I know we've been talking a lot about our counselors these last couple of minutes and just wanted to put a plug in for them as well when it comes to attendance because they are integral in helping to identify barriers for kids with attendance and putting in different levels of support. So really with the attendance we are in kind of the planning phase this year of being able to track the data. We have established a district-wide attendance committee which has met a couple of times already this year and really the purpose of that committee is to be developing clear and consistent attendance practices across the district and then also being able to as we move on um learn more about what are the additional supports that students may need to help increase the attendance. But overall I'd say our attendance is pretty strong. >> [laughter] >> Does this include both unexcused and excused? Okay. Great. So it's not just unexcused. And this would be a full day absence. Yes. Okay. And we know our students have to be in school to learn. And so we're very appreciative of the work that Michelle and her team are doing to make sure to encourage attendance and that district attendance team that she has coming together is really instrumental in supporting that work. Any questions? I you know what I would just for another day but be curious like are we Do we have a lot of people taking vacation or we take or traveling or are they actually sick or I'm just curious. I mean the 95% attendance record is is great. I'm not saying that we that shouldn't be any higher but it it is it's just interesting like I wonder why are they taking time off, you know? So that's going on in my head. All right, anything else for today? All right. With that I think we're adjourned. Thanks everybody. Thank you. >> [laughter] >> Wait. >> [laughter] >> We got 15 more minutes. We got to hit the