Good evening and welcome to the March 16th city council meeting. If you join me in a moment of silence and the pledge of allegiance. roll call please. >> Michelle Wulk >> here. >> Luke Kelly >> here. >> John Burmel >> here. >> Dan Walter >> here. >> Joshua Lee >> here. Okay, very good. Uh we'll now move on to item number three, citizens comments. This is an opportunity for those in attendance to address the council for up to three minutes. Uh typically if there's an item later on the agenda, we'll hold off comment for that. So okay, seeing none, moving on to additional agenda information. Mr. Kennon, >> uh nothing additional tonight, Mayor. >> All right. And with that, we'll go into our first presentation, our only presentation actually, the fire department quarterly report from Chief Meyer. Welcome, Chief. Good to see you. Good evening, Mayor, Council. Uh, I'd like to present the annual report for Lakeville Fire Department for 2025. Starting with our mission statement, the Lakeville Fire Department is dedicating serving the community through the protection of lives and property by providing public safety education and a professional emergency response. And you can kind of see the list of everything that we do as a department there. And looking first at our emergency responses. So in 2025, we ended with 416 uh2 calls. The two bottom graphs just show the uh difference between a three-year and a 10-year comparison. When you look at the three-year uh since 23, we've been seeing a 9% increase uh since 23 over each year. And obviously, if you look at the 10-year comparison, you can see kind of that jump between 2020 and 2021. Uh and then after that, it's been a steady increase after that point moving forward. And how we break down those incidents, those 462 on the left side, you can see a little over 60% of those are EMS rescue calls for 2,900. And then it goes from there to good intent. Uh false alarms, hazardous conditions, uh fires, service calls, and severe weather calls. Uh the fire number is about average of what we see yeartoear. Uh it's about 3% roughly to 5% of our call volume. Uh right now we're averaging about 11 calls per day as a department. Uh just some changes on the left side just to highlight some changes in response that we happen. So, I'll talk a little bit more later in the presentation, but uh as of April 28th and 25, we did add engine one fully staffed 24/7. Uh that typically is a crew uh four to six minimum. If we get to that number, we break it down into a third truck, but uh the benefit of having that second full-time engine is just assisting with overlapping calls, covering the southern half of the city. Obviously, staffing that truck gives us a quicker response time. The downside of that is or uh what we've seen is a decrease to our pay on call our station call outs or pages. Uh and then you on the right side the top graph just shows a breakout of what uh those engines are doing as far as their response. So engine 4 handles roughly 67% of the call volume where engine one is at 33% and it's all about location as far as where those two engines are located. Uh and then the bottom uh circle graph that you see is those overlapping calls. So uh in 2025 we had 636 simultaneous calls or overlapping calls. Uh 535 of those were simultaneously two incidents or more or two incidents. And as you work your way around clockwise uh those increase. Uh obviously July 4th was a busy evening because we had eight incidents within an hour of each other or within one hour. So that's kind of what we look at for that. So obviously that's busy but that helps us on July 4th as an instance we we staff up for that day so that we have additional coverage besides just the two engines. As I mentioned we see a decrease in those station page outs or calls and you can kind of see that graph on the left. So in 2023 before we started implementing full-time staffing uh the station volumes were you know station one at the top at just short of 500 calls uh going down there from there. And then as we look at 2025, uh we reduced those station page outs by about twothird. So they're uh our two busiest stations, one and two are now just over a 100 calls with station three right behind them. Uh drone response. So we have a 10person drone team. Obviously they respond to structure fires, water rescue, uh search for missing people. Uh they're out in the community doing public education events. I'll say one of the strong points to our drone team is that two of our leads are their full-time job is in the aviation field. So, they have a strong knowledge, strong background, uh, and they've actually been, uh, used in other communities that are either starting up their drone program, helping them get on their feet, and kind of the the ins and outs and what we've learned as we've built our drone team up from there. And obviously, you can see some of the pictures of us responding to fires and and what we use them for. looking at response time. So just I'll focus on the top two graphs that you see the EMS and structure fire. There's not a lot of change in those response as far as the two staffed engines. The third one is uh a station response when we page out the station. Uh I'll highlight the EMS one. So when you look at the alarm time, that is the time of the phone calls received at Dakota 911 until we're alerted or paged out. Uh typically on an EMS side, those times are a little bit longer in that alarm time. It's just a matter of the questions they ask as far as to determine what type of medical it is and the response that's required. Obviously, a structure fire, I think it's a five question uh questions that they ask that then that prompts our response. So, it's a little bit faster there. Uh the bottom one just shows all responses. So, regardless of it's a medical, a fire, and then whether we're going lights or sirens. Uh so those times are a little bit increased from that which we fully expect because we're not always running lights and sirens to that call if it doesn't warrant it. Uh and then on the left side just to show on EMS calls our two staffed engines are still about 60% in front of the ambulance as far as arrival fire prevention. Uh so just kind of highlight some of those. So the far left one. So we uh visit 14 elementary schools during fire prevention. Uh we also do fire extinguisher training at the middle schools, but we've also uh done a lot of businesses this past year as far as they've requested fire extinguisher training. So we go into that business that requests that uh and provide that. Uh Oak Hills Elementary was our citywide uh fire poster contest winner. Uh and that uh uh person was submitted to the state fire chiefs for the final drawing which we'll hear I think in April is when that comes back out. Uh fire safety talks uh we do those anywhere and everywhere that we're invited to. So, daycare, station, tour, safety camps, uh, national night out, and then obviously our open house, uh, food truck inspection. So, just some of the areas that we see food trucks happening. Obviously, Panaprog is a very large event, but we're seeing more businesses that host them. Uh, Fleet Farm, uh, is one of those, and then we see a lot school events and park events now as those continue to increase. And just looking at annual inspections. So in 2025 we had just over 1,200 inspections completed. Uh on the right you can see how those are broken out in different inspection types that we do. Uh but then what what does that inspection team do when they go out? So we're we're looking at the commercial businesses uh any open burn requests, mobile food trucks, firework sales. So if Cub Foods or another business requests a firework permit to sell, then we we are inspecting those tents or instore sales that they do have. And obviously they're in the business looking for any fire hazards, uh, making sure that we're in compliance with state and local codes. Again, I always, uh, like to reinforce that when we do a fire inspection, our job is not, you know, to look at the fire code and make sure that's enforced, but it's also to educate and make sure that we're correcting those. Uh, they also do the investigation on any fire causes also. and one side of inspections that we don't talk a lot about and these are all uh the the two graphs that you do see are all about new construction. Uh so the inspections that we do uh regarding a new construction whether it's a business or a multifamily unit. So the top one is just strictly as looking at sprinkler systems that we have to look at and do a rough in a final all the components that go with that sprinkler system. The bottom one just shows uh fire sprinkler inspections, temp heats and then fire alarm inspections. So, these are new installs or remodels to an existing system. Uh, and then on the right, just some accomplishments that our inspection team has completed this past year. Uh, we're implementing or changing over the key box system that we put on the side of a building, it gives us access in. Uh, along with that, then within our vehicles is a secure key system that we use that holds those keys. That's when an individual takes a key out of the truck, they're identified by their PIN number they use. Uh and then the bottom couple that I just want to highlight is this that we've we've done a lot of uh increased education on lithium ion batteries. A lot of people look at the vehicles as far as one big thing, but there's also a ton of batteries that are out there in your cell phone in different components. Uh and then the fires that we've experienced recently is that we've added some containment units as far as after fire where we can put that battery and safely store it until uh we're sure that it's completely out. uh mobile food truck license. So, as I mentioned, uh on the left, you can just see everything that we're looking at when we do an inspection on a food truck. Uh since we started this program in 2021, you can see where we started with numbers, uh to where we are in 2025 with 194. And I know usually we start those right after January, and we've we've probably are already at 60, I believe, this year. So, they start coming in pretty fast. Department training. Uh so training we complete on a monthly basis. Uh all of our firefighters are required to attend a monthly training. Uh that list below it there of EMR, cardiac, live burn are the areas that we hit uh every year. Uh medical training wise, just to give you an idea, so out of our firefighters that we have, 32 of them are EMR, which is our base level medical training. Uh we have 52 EMTs and four paramedics on the department. uh some extra training opportunities that we provided this past year and into this year, excuse me, our fire inspector, fire officer, fire instructor. Uh we have three individuals currently going through paramedic school right now. Uh and then we've certified all of our full-time staff as rescue swimmers. And then uh there's eight of our full-time staff that are also doing car seat car seat certification for installation uh wellness, mental uh mental and physical health. So, one thing I guess I I preach when we hire people is that, you know, when they come into the fire department, we want them to be physically and mentally healthy. And when they retire, we want that same look at them is that they're in the same but just slightly aged probably. Uh so these are some of the steps that we do to try to make sure that that occurs is that we do annual physicals with our firefighters. A lot of this is OSHA required that we have to complete. Uh from the mental side, we're doing the critical instance stress. We have a partnership with Abai on the back side. Uh and then there's also MinFIRE out there as another resource for us. And then we make sure that our firefighters that when they're on shift that they have time to do a workout on obviously providing that facility for them. Looking at recruitment uh retirements and awards. So obviously we got the safer grant. So in March of uh 2025 we hired 16 full-time firefighters uh to put us at our 21 full-time staffing. As I mentioned, eight of those are certified as far as car seat installation. They've all gone through a joint fire academy uh and they complete their shift fitness and training. Uh with that hire, again mentioning that we now are staffing two full-time engines 247. Uh and you can just see pictures of them going through either fitness training uh during their academy and then their group photo uh when we hired them. Uh then to recruitment for pay on call. So, we did hire eight pay on call in 2025. Uh we lost two in September due to either family or uh one got a promotion for his job and just had to uh step away from the fire department. As far as that goes, uh I'm happy to announce as of this past Saturday, they've all completed their training, their hazmat certification, uh and they will start working shifts work in April as far as that, if not sooner, if they find an open shift to work. Uh and then they're working on their two-year probation. And you can see their names down there of Christian, Carson, and and Rick at station one, uh Sean, and Tim at three and four. And just some pictures of them and going through certain training with that. Uh badging and retirement. So just starting on the left side. So in March, uh our first full-time were badged here. Uh one is not pictured, so there's only four up there. Uh but Steve, uh Colin, Tom, and Dan. Uh I believe Zach missed it because he maybe had a baby at home that was a newborn. So, uh, and then the middle, our class of 23 completed their two-year probation. So, that we were here, uh, badging them in December, and then, uh, they were issued their, uh, black helmet as signifying their end of probation. And then on the right, uh, Dan, Paul, John, and Steve were, uh, uh, presented their shadow boxes for their retirement after 20 years of service from the fire department. And then just looking at numbers, recruitment, retention of our pay on call staff. So, uh it's it's a busy graph on the top, but when you look at it, overall we lose uh roughly about six firefighters every year, regardless of the number that we hire. Uh and if I ran the numbers, I believe over the the 11-year period that you look at, I think we hired 89 over that time frame, and we've lost 85 of those over that time frame. So and then if we look year the bottom graph is just uh years of service as far as where we stand today as far experience on the department. So uh six members are 20 plus years and then it goes from there to the right. Uh so just over I think it's 50% a little over that are 10 years or under for years of experience. So we've been holding roughly about the same across the board on that as far as years of experience goes. In January, we hosted our annual awards banquet. Uh, and Joe Tolmes was awarded our firefighter of the year, and he is one of our lead drone uh, person. So, he's the aviation expert, if you will, in the fire department. And then, uh, Corey Blanchard was awarded the rookie of the year. Community and public events that we were a part of. Oops, too far. Uh, some of the events that we were part of. So, community blood drive, uh, home and garden show, and a shameless plug that that is this year is happening this Saturday at Lakeville North. Uh, international day of living, uh, we participate in a number of parades for our neighboring uh, cities, mighty trucks at the library, obviously to the right, uh, panrog events, openhouse, school events, ECF, and Touch a Truck. and just some of those pictures uh of from those events and some of the fun things we do as firefighters, if you will. Uh so on the left side we had the uh 911 stair climb that we do at Lifetime Fitness. Uh it's a great partnership that they allow us to come in and and use their stairmills and spend some time climbing 110 stories. Uh and then thanks to the Fountains of Hosana for giving us some some hydration and some fuel after we're all done. Uh and then on the right side is our Ragnar team. So uh we've been doing this for eight years. We've had one team and I think the past three years we've had two teams running this. Uh so it's a 200 mile relay race from St. Paul to Duth. Uh occurs from a Friday into Saturday as far as running that. And you can see 36 legs that are shared between either six or 12 people running it depending on the team. Uh then our partnership with the public safety foundation, just some of the events that we do throughout the year with them. Uh firehouse bingo in May. Uh this year it is May 17th. Uh their golf tournament in June and bourbon and cigars which is in June. And if you have not bought your tickets already, you're probably too late for those two events. I believe they're pretty close to sold out at our last update. Uh then our police fireball. Uh the picture to the right is the makeup day of the softball game that uh we were part of and then shop with a hero in December. Just to highlight a few uh department enhancements that occurred in 2025. Uh you know a lot about the first center. Uh obviously you know about heard about the fire station uh for that. But just some of the things I'd like to mention at the very bottom is with our full-time staffing we've had an opportunity to provide a a stronger mentorship program. Uh so we partnered with the school district and the chamber as far as getting into the schools talking about the fire service and what that means and what that looks like. Uh if we have a high school student that is very interested in that then we can provide them a ride along program to kind of get them interested. Our next phase that we want to get into is if that senior that junior senior is interested in the fire service to roll them into our pay on call academy and give them the training and potentially they become part of our department after that. Uh and then you can just see some pictures of the first center and then the left side is obviously the fire station too uh as as we work through that. That completes my annual report and I want to thank you for your support to the Lakeville Fire Department and I'll stand for any questions. >> Thank you, Chief. Questions council? >> Council member Lee. >> Uh thank you, Chief. Always impressive what can happen in one only one year with the fire department. Um, I was looking at that slide about the call out, station call outs, and it was making me think, you know, that that decrease in callouts is is both a positive because there's not folks getting woken up in the middle of the night and getting paged to the station. And so there has there's a a number decrease there, but are there other ways to quantify the benefit of that? that I mean are do do you know if there's a way to measure maybe the health benefits of not being woken up in the middle of the night uh as frequently? The second part of my question is with that change are there changes in expectations for the number of hours that our firefighters are expected to respond since the calls the call outs are fewer? >> Yep. Uh so the first part absolutely yes. Is it better not to be waking everybody up in the middle of the night? 100% guaranteed on that. Uh, I think the message that we have to the department right now as far as just kind of relating to that is when we do call them out as far as when the other two trucks are busy on whatever that is or if it's a structure fire. Uh, so when we do page them out, we truly need them to respond if that makes sense. There's a higher need for that at that time. Uh, the second part of your question is we're working on that. Uh, one of my promises I made to the fire department at my our uh, annual meeting with the firefighters was I wasn't going to make any changes because we've done quite a bit over the past year and a half is we're going we're looking at hours increase just because of that, but we're not quite there. If we do anything, it won't be until July of this year as far as that. So, one thing I I guess I failed to mention in my report is right now we're working on staffing that third truck as far as rescue truck if you will. So, it's a pickup truck response for those medicals so that we're not always running the engine. And that's kind of where that that need is going to arise if if that makes sense. >> Sure. I just I do want to be clear that I'm not saying that, you know, what are they doing? They're not being called out. It's more we know that uh clearly the firefighters are engaging with the community in a lot of different ways. They're scheduling themselves for other shifts. Um but that callout number is an important one to me because to me it's the most disruptive to the life of of firefighters. >> Yep. I'll say, you know, that it's a shift in how we obviously where we came from to where we are today. So, it's a change in the the picture of I'm waiting for my pager to go off versus I sign up and I'm going to work this 4 hour shift or these eight hours or whatever. I can pick up on that day. So, it's more of a scheduled time to work versus the interruption of your pager going off. >> Thank you, Walter. >> Uh, two things. First, I just want to thank you again for um including us in the awards banquet every year. that's always just a wonderful time to interact with the department and and see the camaraderie and stuff and I I I thoroughly enjoy it. Um second, um I want to ask you about Fourth of July. Um that was the time when you had eight simultaneous calls. Um you know, I think most of us get complaints from people on Fourth of July on fireworks and issues like that. From your perspective, is that getting worse? Is it staying the same? Are there are there, you know, real life and safety threats in those calls? A lot of I'll say and I'm trying to remember some of those incidents, but majority of them are more of a like a grass fire caused by fireworks. So, it's not necessarily complaint for us that obviously that's more of a PD thing. It's more of a response and obviously just the the amount of people moving through the city as far as during and after the fireworks is where where we see those calls generated to that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You have questions? >> Um my one question for you. The slide said we had four current paramedics. We have a couple that are going through training. >> Yep. >> Is the intent later on then to make sure that one is kind of scheduled in like a shift so that we have that asset as much as possible or how what's your vision for that? >> So I'll say our goal is once we hit, you know, obviously paramedic school is not something I think there it's an 10-month program. So the the three individuals in it should complete and certify in October, okay, >> of this year. So our goal is when we roll into 2027 is that one of them will always be on one of one of the engines. So we'll have a medic on one of those engines and as we progress into 2728 is that we'll have a minimum of two paramedics per shift and then one on each engine. >> Very good. Okay. Thank you. Any questions? >> Thanks chief. Appreciate the update. >> Okay. We'll move on to our consent agenda. Any items you want to highlight, Mr. McKennon? >> Uh nothing to highlight tonight. >> Okay. These are more routine matters for the council. If anybody anything they wanted to discuss, otherwise I'll take a motion to approve. >> I move approval of the consent agenda. >> There second. >> Second. Any further discussion? All those in favor say I. >> I. Opposed. Okay. Consent agenda passes. We'll move on to item 7 A. Dod comments preliminary plat. Oh, Alan. Okay. I didn't know if the chief or you or whoever was I drew the short straw. >> Thank you. >> Good evening, Mayor, City Council. Tonight, we're going to review uh the Dodcom's preliminary plat condition use permanent easement vacation. Um the subject property is located in the south uh east corner of 179th Street and Graanby B Lane. That's currently zoned C3 commercial with a little bit of a portion of the south area being uh public open uh public open space. Um the four acres of that uh Fisher property that was previously purchased last year uh will be used for the new fire station 2. Um access to the site will be off of Dodd Boulevard and Graanby Lane. Uh the front of the building is going to be towards the north uh towards Dodd Boulevard. So that'll be the gas parking and uh that you see at the north end. The site will also include the extension of a new north south road. Um and uh access for the fire apparat vehicles coming in out of the site will be off of Granby. So they'll be entering and exit exiting for calls off of Graanby. The main level of the building includes fire administration offices as well as the management staff for fire station 2. um also include classroom, breakout space, firefighter workroom, fitness space, locker room, equipment, storage, and then the seven bays for the apparatuses. Uh the upper level will include the dorm areas, uh kitchen, dining, laundry, and day room, as well as training space, and then and then the towers on the north and I'm sorry, on the east and west side of the building, as well as a mezzanine training area. Uh this is looking at the building from the north or from Dodd Boulevard. This will be the main entrance going into the building. This is looking at the building from uh Graanby Lane from uh the east east side or the new north south access road and then from the south you may kind of see that peeking through from 179th Street. Maybe see a little bit of that building from from the south. So planning commission at the March 5th meeting reviewed the preliminary plat for Dodd Commons. Um the plaid does include one lot and three out lots. Um block one, lot one will be the fire station site and then out lot A will be the storm water basin for the area. Um out lot B is the existing water tower site um along 179 street and then um outlot C it will be future development future developable area. The planning commission also reviewed the condition use permit request. Um, this is for the height of the building at the top of the screening that goes around the HVAC equipment on the roof as well as the uh training tower that's going to be on the east side of the building. Uh, the preliminary plat also includes the uh vacation of some old rideway and some easements. So, we're just doing some cleanup work as part of the preliminary plat. Um, the easements and rideway will be reestablished when the final plat comes through later on. So I mentioned planning commission reviewed this uh the three items at the March 5th meeting. Uh input was received from one adjacent resident during that meeting. Um the concerns there are more in a general sense of just uh traffic and intersection concerns. Um at Dodd 179th and Grace and Glacier Way. Uh staff responded to those questions at the meeting. Um, planning commission recommend approval of the plary plat easement vacations and right away vacations and the cup and staff is available for any questions. >> Okay, council, we've been talking about this for a while, but uh, now it's really real as they say. >> Any comment? Yeah, council member Lee. >> Um, the site looks as I expected it because like you said there, we've gone through this many times. My question and concern is related to exhibit O. It's the letter that received from Dakota County and in relation to the access from Dodd to the adjacent businesses on the east side of the parcel. I've had some concerns from businesses about the language that would restrict or take away that access point coming southbound. And I'm just wanting to make sure that the language here protects their access or improves it future. Um, and I it the the way it's stated, I just I'm a little confused on on when and where that access will take place in the future. >> So, you're are you referring to the old CVS at the corner that development? >> Yeah. Right now there's a brain um acade academy right on the on Cedar and there's a there's a right in right out. >> Yep. Yeah. Uh so when that plat was originally developed, the county agreed to allow that to exist until additional access was provided towards the west. Um right now there is no plans to make a connection there. Um so we'd have to address that with the county if we were to make that connection towards the east into this outlot se um where that right in right out could go away. Gota because I think my concern is if we ever consider the current access on Dodd as the replacement for that and there are barriers in the way making a left on Dodd into that area. Um so I just want to make sure that if and when that intersection or access from DOT is closed that there's full intersection access um to that business area. >> Gotcha. I understand what you're saying. Yep. >> And we'd have to look at that when that outli develops then. >> So do you think from exhibit O that's what they're trying to state from there that >> that would be my interpretation unless Yeah, that would that's the interpretation of staff. >> All right. Appreciate that. Thank you. >> Council other questions. Good point. Council member I'll take a motion. Council member Burma. I move >> I move to approve the preliminary plat of Dog Commons, a conditional use permit for a building in excess of 35 ft in height in the C3 General Commercial District, a vacation of public rightway and roadway drainage and utility easements and adopt the findings of fact. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> Second. Any further discussion? Okay. Roll call, please. >> Walter >> I. >> Lee. >> Hi. >> Vulk. >> I. >> Helier. >> Burmal. >> Hi. >> Okay. Very good. One more step. U. We'll now move on to item B. Prime 35 industrial preliminary plat. And John Rous from Kushman Wakefield or Brady Buselman from Minnesota Hill. Welcome. Good to see you both. Oh yeah, and I think Tina will probably she has plenty to say too, but go welcome. >> I'm John Roush with Kushman and Wakefield representing the I'm standing in for the owners tonight who are dealing with a snowstorm. Um we have 145 acres of Highway 70 that we're looking to develop into a class A industrial park. Lots of jobs hopefully um quality buildings. Um we uh hope to kick off uh grading this year as quickly as possible. We'd even move some of the equipment in, you know, prior to road restrictions uh coming on if if we can get our get our timing set. Um we expect about 1.3 million square feet at full buildout is what the AUR has allowed for that we believe is approved. Um, and it's just going to be really a continuation of the rest of the business parks that Scanal and others have done along the south side of Highway 70. So, we're real excited about this. Uh, this propertyy's been on everybody's radar for quite some time. And we we hope to bring another bunch of jobs and quality business park to the city. And again, I'm a broker, not an engineer. >> Yeah. I have any real specific questions? Do do they have users identified or is it just more of spec at this point? No, >> too speculative. Right now we're we're too far out for anybody to take us real serious. We need to start moving some dirt and then we can quantify scope, price, >> and uh you know delivery schedule. People can't I mean if we were to start today right now today we're still probably two years out from somebody taking probably >> a lot of these companies aren't looking out quite that far yet. So, we gota we got to stick some shovels in the ground to to show them we're real. >> Very good. Okay. >> Good evening, mayor, members of the council. Um, so yes, um, Crosby Development Partners, um, they have submitted an application for a preliminary plat known as Prime 35 Industrial. The property is, um, outlined in yellow. It's those two properties um that are adjacent south of County Road 70 between Jakard and Kapari Avenues. The property is zoned I1 Light Industrial. It's also guided warehouse and Light Industrial. As Mr. Roush mentioned, um the property does include approximately 145 acres. The plat includes eight lots plus four outlots. Two of those outlots will be dedicated to the city. It does include or expect more than a million square feet of future industrial space. Um here's a layout of the site plan. Um a couple of the challenges with the site plan is there is a gas line easement that runs and crosses the entire property as well as a creek that runs through the property. Um most of the wetlands, the creek area and the trees within this area all being protected and included into a wetland that will be deeded to the city. Um so that is a benefit of the site and why the configuration of the future buildings looks the way that it does. Um so they were able to use the space where they could. Um so the buildings do um blend or variety of sizes I should say from the smallest up in that corner um adjacent to county road 70 all the way to larger buildings in this location. So this is the estimated um layout um as a plumary plot. This is kind of like a residential. So we always in residential we have plumary plots that come through and then we have individual final plots based on phases. This is no different. So when you think of this um what the developers are really wanting to do is to have this entitlement approved so that they are able to do grading based on phases and then as they sell lots those then developers will come through and get their final plat approved. There may be conditional use permits in the future depending on the use. We would tie those conditional use permit reviews with the final plot. So very very similar to how we do residential developments. Um this is a gradient and drainage plan. Um the majority of the storm water is being managed to the south with storm water also provided for um this building up up in the northwest corner. The tree preservation plan um was completed. Um the ordinance allows up to 70% of removal. They're just a little bit over that. Again, areas of preservation are within the area that will be deeded to the city as well as along the adjacent property. So then all of those trees that um need to make up that um difference in reforestation are being provided within the site. And these plans are big. So hopefully you're able to see them on your individual computers prior to the meeting. The center picture is that overall landscaping plan. Um Heather broke out a few of the exhibits for um one of the buildings. A lot of the trees and the new plantings are being focused along the bu um site perimeters as well as parking lot perimeters and building perimeters. So throughout the site the required trees not only from our base landscaping ordinance but also the re the required um reforestation is being provided and scattered throughout the site. So then again as we review final plats as we review final site plans we will be looking back to these master plans or this plary plat landscaping plan to ensure the landscaping is done appropriately and the same would fall true for lighting building design and so forth. So while we don't have those users which is you know sometimes unique sometimes we know exactly what the user is going to be um we will work through that um as we work through the individual final plots um and we may be working with multiple developers. It's hard to know at this point um the planning commission did hold their public hearing on March 5th and the planning commission unanimously recommended approval and I would stand for any questions. Okay. Council, any other questions for applicant or Miss Goodro? >> Uh, Miss Goodro, I This is one of our early U plats where we're using the uh new tree preservation plan and I I'm trying to test out, you know, how it's working. is one of the reasons why there wasn't a need to replace one for one was because of preservation of uh larger trees or uh legacy trees I think >> heritage trees. >> Heritage trees. >> Yes, they did receive um quite a bit of credit for preservation of some heritage trees. Do is there somewhere in the packet maybe I missed it where it's logging what those trees were and I'm just kind of curious what is the size and age of the trees that we are preserving through this policy. Um I don't have that off my top of my head, but the um we do have a robust Excel spreadsheet that the applicant uses along with our forestry team and they evaluate all of that and go through and then that's where um the forestry team determines what could be counted for the heritage trees. So we can provide that information to you if you want to see it. Um that level of detail I don't think made it into the packet, but we it is a robust analysis. Um, yeah, it it doesn't affect my uh decision tonight, but I would love to uh see that just to see how that policy is working. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Any questions? Any other questions? Council? I'll take a motion. >> I'll move to approve a resolution approving the Prime 35 industrial preliminary. Okay. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Any further discussion? Um I I just want I mean a million square feet of industrial space. This is a unique opportunity um for the city. There's not a lot of communities that have the ability to do that and so um this is uh an exciting project. So excited. >> I would second that. With that roll call, please. >> Vulk. >> I. >> Elliier. >> Burmel. >> I. >> Walter. >> I. >> Lee. >> Hi. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Um, our next item is new business. This is uh kind of a new way that we're approaching our work session. So, there's no formal action taken by the council. It's for discussion. Uh, did you guys want to take a break or you want to jump into it or Okay, we'll go right into it. So, the first item is discussion on keeping of chickens ordinance. I'll invite Miss Goodro back up. Talk about the 40 chickens she wants to have. chickens. So, um, mayor, members of the council, keeping of chickens is found in chapter 35 of the zoning ordinance. Um, item C of 11353, so it's in the zoning ordinance, contains the requirements specifically of chickens within that um, animal ordinance. An administrative permit is required to keep chickens and it's allowed upon property that is developed with a single family home in a residential zoning district. Um the ordinance was adopted in 2018 and we have issued 92 administrative permits to date. A maximum of three chickens is allowed and the keeping of roosters is prohibited. Um there are also some requirements in the ordinances including your packet regarding the coupe exterior um which is um something that we do get questions on once in a while. Um we do require it to be constructed of wood. Location requirements are also included in the ordinance. Um calling out um that it's only in the rear yard 20t from the lot line. Looking at um couple of our neighbors, Rosemont allows five hens, Farmington four compared to our three. I can imagine the number of chickens might be part of the conversation tonight. Um but you know, we were asked to include this for discussion tonight. So the table is now yours. Okay. >> Very good. I I'll just say I think just for everybody's background in what year did we do this? >> 2018. >> 2018. I've only I think I've only had one complaint to at least to me as mayor and it was related more of location of the coupe adjacent to their neighbor versus actually about chicken. So, I'll just there might be other complaints, but that was the only one that came to me specifically. Council member Walter, this was your item that you wanted to talk about on our retreat. So, I'll let you kind of start if you had any input. >> I've got some thoughts. Um, and I first of all, I want to thank the council for your willingness to discuss this because I know I've been talking about it for a while. Um, uh, so really there's four issues that I wanted to raise and would be interested in other thoughts on this. I think that that materials question of what the requirement of what the coups are made of. We did receive a um um a citizen um email on that I think probably about a year ago um saying that wood was not that there are other options out there um in addition to wood. So I I think uh in my view that we we should consider changing that um at least to allow things like composite material. I I I don't know the I guess I don't know enough of as to whether or not the requirement of wood if and from my research I'm not sure there's necessarily a reason for that. >> Yeah. Is it >> Yeah. Is it is it is it so I I I think that that could be either eliminated that requirement that it be wood or um add other materials there to make it more um to create more options. And then the number of chickens issue um as you know I is is one that I've had concerns about. I think three is too few. Um the um just my own experience I just for background I started with chickens about a year ago. Um and the cost of the permit the cost of keeping the coupe in the run. Um and then al also what you get in terms of egg production from three. It's it's not it's not a it's not really I would say it's cost prohibitive um for for most people. So it definitely is a hobby thing. Um I I think we would be safe raising that um to six or even eight. Um Rosemont, as you pointed out, Tina, in the materials, Rosemont allows four, Farmington five. Burnsville, I did a little research. They're either four or six. I I can't tell. There's two numbers I could find out there. On the opposite side, Apple Valley is zero. They don't allow any prior lake for Minneapolis has a unique system allowing up to 30. Um with a tiered permitting system that involves neighbor consent and that sort of thing. I I I think that's a bridge too far in my view. Um Plymouth allows six, Roseville 10, Woodbury Woodbury and Minnotonka had some interesting approaches. Woodbury allows six on lots less than four acres and then two more per acre above that. So there are a number of of of lots I think that are are larger uh in the community and you could certainly have larger numbers. I thought that was interesting. And then Minnotonka's was a one per oneth acre. Um so your standard third acre lot would still have three. Um but lots like mine would you a halfacre I had five. Um so >> yeah. And you >> I did went to some of the online sources there and I and honestly they would the ones I saw would let you buy as few as one. >> Oh, they would. >> Um and I went to what's that place in Rose Fueles in Rosemont. They they've actually got them and and Fleet Farm has them as well and you can buy buy singles. Oh, you can >> there as well. So, I you know, I think there's probably some exotic breeds or something. I don't know if we have any chicken people >> in the in in the Yeah, you do. Um that might have some um some answers to that question. I honestly I inherited egg producing chickens when I bought my house. So, I haven't actually had to go through that process. So, I don't know if anybody any of you have thoughts on that of how you have to buy them. And >> give us a minute. We'll have you come up. Okay. Well, that's good. Good. I could probably have something to learn. So, that's that's the number issue. Um, I I also just want to raise the the so so the coupe and everything that I inherited was not permitted. There was no permit for it and I discovered that after moving into the place. Um, permits are $100. Um, and um, I just want to raise the idea there, you know, If if obviously if you have a certain number, I think permits are are necessary, but if you have three chickens, I'm not sure exactly why you need a permit. It and to me it's almost like dog licensing. The people that follow the rules do it, others don't, you know. So, so, um, I know a number of permits that or a number of people that have backyard chickens and don't actually do the permit thing. So, be the same. >> I just raised that limit on how many bees too. I forget. >> Um, >> no, I meant uh the hives. >> I think there is a limit on hives. >> Yeah, that's what I meant. The hives. >> Yeah, I'm sorry. I I should have been clearer on that. >> Okay. Then my final point, we do specifically prohibit the sale of eggs. Um, I understand the intent of that. You don't want people running working farms out of their uh out of their backyards. I I I completely get that. But I I think even if we were to raise it to six six birds, you you know, that's just a couple dozen a week. I don't know that we've got an issue with people running businesses uh and selling that. I I think we could repeal that uh prohibition. um just for as a matter of state law allows people to sell direct from their flock um as long as their flock is fewer than 3,000 birds. So, in terms of state law, um, you know, >> like raw milk, >> I think there are and if you're selling them at a farmers market and stuff, you have there you have to go through the state requirements, too. But if you're just selling them like if I'm just selling them to anybody that not that I I mean I mine produce 13 eggs a week, so there's not a lot of sale there. Let's just say that. And if there were more people there there would because I mean I can't eat 13 eggs a week. But six then you're looking at 26 eggs a week or more, >> right? Potentially depending on what breed you have. I high producing breed. So anyway, those are my thoughts. That's just the four issues that I that I wanted to raise. So that's some putting a little thought into it. >> So I think there's three things that I would entertain a conversation. I think the building material I don't know the but I think six seems logical. I could be convinced more but I think six seems reasonable. And then the selling as long as I think you know you had it kind of set up like like how a little free library is. Somebody just wants to stop in and buy your eggs. I guess I I but I'd want a lot of limits maybe giant signs. I mean, we got enough of that crap during election season. >> It is. Isn't that already covered or other other ordinances though? >> We just would want to tie it all together >> cuz like can you if you have a garden, can you set up a stand to sell carrots out in your yard? >> I have no idea. It's a good question. >> Anybody know? >> And I don't necessarily support that. I just don't want to make it illegal if somebody wants to pay me for my eggs. It's a good question. I'm not sure off the top of my head. >> So, okay. Did anybody unless you guys comment about the eggs at all? >> Are you claiming you have more than three chicken in a public meeting? >> Okay. >> Well, you need to come to the microphone, please. >> The educator. That's Yeah. >> All right. 200034 Italy Avenue in Lakeville. And yes, I do teach the community ed chicken class for the city of Farmington, not for Lakeville because I am a teacher in Farmington. >> Um, so chickens are a passion project for me. I do very much like them. So I would be happy to um I guess help you in your research, Dan, of knowing. So, um, wood is, you know, a basic catch-all. However, if it's untreated, you have problems with the ammonia levels for chickens, rotting of the wood, all of that. So, composite materials would be a wonderful addition to be able to make coups more secure, um, make me um, and just have the availability of other products that maybe are more cost-effective. >> And what about in farming? What do they allow then? the >> composite material. >> They do allow composite material. They also have the restrictions of um how close coups and stuff can be to property lines. I don't know. I can't remember off the top of my head what that is. I think it's very similar to Lakeville. Um but like so let's for example Tractor Supply, you know, they sell chicken coops. Last year they had an adorable chicken coupe that looked like a camper, >> like a pull behind camper. And that obviously was not made out of wood. that was made out of metal. So, according to the Lakeville ordinance, that wouldn't have been a an approved coupe. However, a metal coupe is more secure than a wood coupe because metal is a stronger material than wood if it's done correctly. So, like obviously like sheet metal, no, but depending on your material, >> tornado, I mean, is it >> No. Well, okay. Maybe that's a big >> but I mean the the coupe the way that I'm sorry the way that it's built etc. It's like a little mini home, right? >> And the camper >> camper. >> So you have when you set up coups, especially on a small scale, you're going to have to do things to secure a coupe either to the ground or in some way, shape, or form. What's more important is the run itself. Um because we live in Minnesota um and specifically in the location, we still have foxes, we still have um coyotes and if you do not have a strong enough run, a coyote can rip through >> the material to get at chickens and then unfortunately kill your flock um you know and up north and stuff then then it has to be barroofed. Uh so there's different variations of of predator proofing your coupe. We already have the ordinances that they have to be contained. So, you're not worrying worried about hawks, eagles, that type of stuff. However, if your run is not um an eagle can pull through chicken wire, they can break chicken wire. Chicken wire is meant to keep chickens out, not keep chickens in. Um it is not a strong material for use. People want you to use um hardware cloth as a more strong material for chicken coops. So, and You are not allowed to buy single birds at Tractor Supply or Fleet Farm. You have to buy the minimum of your city ordinance. >> So you cannot replace a single chicken if one dies. However, there are plenty of chicken groups on Facebook that are looking to rehome mean chickens and this that and the other thing. So >> that you just said the minimum of your ordinance >> or like the the So like if so I believe Fleet Farm you have to give your address. >> Okay. You're not allowed to buy any more than three at Fleet Farm. However, if you go to Tractor Supply, the minimum birds you can buy is four. >> Oh, >> so you you go to Tractor Supply and you're only allowed three chickens in the city of Lakeville, but you have to buy four, and they will not sell you anything less than four. And that's just their policy as a business um on how they sell chickens. >> They don't care what you do with the fourth one then when you walk out of their store. No, >> chicken chickens unfortunately are not under the same, you know, people don't people see them as more of a it's not a cat or dog. I'll just put it that way. People don't >> people are not as passionate about as chickens as I am. >> An animal being sold that I mean that's the the point. Um but you know unfortunately there are it's a mass produced selling of it's essentially a mass-produced selling of goods is chickens they are not the >> but can you buy if you minimum or but you can buy >> the supply specifically >> you can buy six >> you can buy six yeah you have to at like >> have to buy four or more >> four do you now I in the ordinance there's nothing about water fowl because a lot of places also sell ducks alongside chickens so that be something that you guys would still know? >> Not today. >> I'm I I just because >> water fowl poultry, you know, they >> Yeah. >> people tend to mix and match. Um but and I would adamantly Yes, ducks are disgusting. Uh, however, like Dan was stating for egg selling, we as a as someone who would want to potentially sell their eggs, like Dan said, he can't eat 13 eggs a week. Um, the requirements are very minimal. There cannot be any um debris on your eggs. So, they have to be clean, but you can't you also can't like let's say your egg was laid in the bathroom at the same time. So, that egg is now contaminated. You're not allowed to wash the egg. You have to rub it off with like a sandpaper. So the the bloom on the egg has to stay intact unless they're refrigerated. >> Oh, >> for the for that for the entire state of Minnesota as a private smallcale seller. >> All right. >> Interesting. Thank you for your absolutely input. >> And yes, there's plenty of exotic breeds. >> Are you here for chickens or you just here to listen? >> I'm just here. >> Okay. All right. Council, any other thoughts about the chickens? Yeah, Council Burma. >> Well, I just, you know, this is an interesting topic and I'm learning a lot even tonight. Um, you know, my my philosophy on this is, you know, let the people have their chickens. Uh, I do agree that with the coups, um, we should look at some kind of composite materials and allowing something that that is other than wood because wood is hard to maintain. >> Well, I think we changed the ordinance a while ago because there was composite material coming in houses etc. we never to look at. >> Yeah, I would just I'm in support of that. Um number of chickens, I would say six or even go as high as eight. I What's interesting is so the mayor mentioned the complaints. I asked some information about complaints and 92 permits. There's relatively few complaints and the complaints aren't nu nuisance complaints. their complaints about, hey, my neighbor doesn't have a permit or, you know, they have x number of chickens when they should only have x number of chickens. And I can imagine, I wasn't on council when we enacted this. Um, but I would imagine that the conversation was around how do we jump into this without compromising neighbor relations? In other words, what's a good number that we can just kind of test the waters. Um, I think with the complaint history, I think the chicken owners have proven that they can manage this and it is manageable in a single family residential area and when you do well with little, you get more. And so I would say, you know, I would think that we can boost the number of chickens up uh without without any issues. Um, the permitting, I still think we should maintain doing that. Uh if we start doing numbers of chickens, it's going to be the same issue. I only have three chickens. I don't have and but I really in reality have four, five or six just like people do now. You know, if somebody's not going to get a permit, they're not going to get a permit. Um so I would say it's all or nothing. Uh you just either get rid of the permitting else or else continue it. But I wouldn't start putting numbers of chickens uh requiring a permit. So, I'd say either or on that one. I think I'd rather have the permit because in case the inspections in case one year they decide they want to inspect all those people that have permits or they've had them for >> 5 to 10 years and they need to, you know, need to um I don't know, especially if you're allowing it to start selling, >> then then I would want some oversight on the qu the condition that the chickens are living in. >> Yeah. And I mean that's that's always another thing is is the only thing that I have with the sale. It was interesting to hear that the regulations are really minimal. Um I think once you allow people to start making money, crazy things start happening. >> I can just see, you know, people maximizing production maybe in unhealthy ways if they're in this to make money. Now, most people aren't >> with six chickens. >> Most people aren't. They're just going to be in it to, hey, I need to get rid of my 13 eggs because I can't eat that many and somebody's willing to buy them from me, so here you go. Um, that I don't have a problem with. I would just want something that we could regulate if somebody does get a little bit crazy and start doing stuff to maximize production. Uh, as a as a I can't imagine how anybody gain decent money off of that. But, um, that's the only thing Yeah, I'm not uh I'm not against repealing that, but I think that's something that we would want to take a really good solid look at first. So, let the people have their chickens. That's where I'm at. >> If if I remember correctly, when we were drafting this first edition, we set a minimum square footage of the coupe based on the appropriate number of chickens. And so if we're looking at increasing that increases the minimum square footage, which then has an implication on smaller lots and setbacks from property lines. So I I do think that we need to make sure that it's in line with particularly the standard kind of quarter acre lot that we've got even though recently that's not as standard. Uh we have even smaller uh lots coming in. So, I just want to make sure that >> you don't think that the same structure that holds the three would hold six. That's just three more. >> I I don't know. I'd have to >> I mean, they're not that big. >> Well, at least know that the discussion when we drafted it, >> Steve Buck, 16530 Judicial Road. Um, so as far as chickens go, kind of the standard is two square feet per bird is considered a humane way to keep chickens. They don't need a lot of room, but they need to be able to stretch their wings and flap and move around. Um, one other thing I, this one might be more a personal thing, but one thing you may want to consider as you rework your ordinance is potentially just putting language in there. Nobody's going to because they don't like you say some people are are just going to raise chickens. But the largest problem that I see with people raising chickens at home is the use of heat lamps. >> Chicken coops are filthy places. They're very dusty and dirty and people put heat lamps in and the chickens are doing dust baths. They're creating dust and next thing you know the back of your barn is on fire. So, there are many other heaters. Typically, heat lamps are used when you're raising chicks. Um, there are plenty of other options out there that are not heat lamps. So, it might just be something to consider cuz personally, I think it's a one of the biggest safety hazards of keeping chickens. >> Yeah, >> good point. >> Do you have heat lamps, Dan? >> I've got a radiant to heat thing. It's a It's heated, but it's not a lamp. >> You're on mute. Go ahead. Sorry. Uh so in 2019, one of the more frequent complaints we were getting regarding waste hauler service uh services was the number and frequency of waste hauler trucks within residential neighborhoods. In addition to th those issues, we were also getting complaints regarding the continuous disruption of noise and traffic uh with the trucks, increased wear and tear in our streets, inefficient use of the roadways, constant display of unsightly trash containers, and also an increased instances of spilled waste because they were going through the neighborhoods um every day of the week. City Council considered several service models to address this issue, including transitioning to an organized collection system, which um basically goes down to one hauler that the city contracts with to serve the entire city. The other option that council looked at was developing a hybrid system that allows residents to continue to individually contract um but look at u bringing the city down to maybe a couple service areas. So, in March of 2019, uh that's what the council ended up doing. They amended the city code to uh split the city into two diff two districts. The east side of the city is serviced on Wednesdays and Thursdays, and the west side is serviced on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Um so, bringing the number of days of waste haulers in our neighborhoods down to three instead of the five. This is the map that shows those districts in the breakout. Um so complaints regarding the frequency of the wastist dollars in neighborhoods dropped significantly after that code revision was completed. Um with most concerns now related to more of the unreliable service missed or delayed services. Um the city has currently has five class A service providers that collect waste from all areas of the city and two class B service providers that collect waste from only commercial and multif family apartment areas. The city council has discussed on several occasions reducing the two-day service area down to one or to further reduce the to further uh reduce the disruptions in traffic within the residential areas. This could be accomplished by dividing the city into two or more service districts that would only allow services to be completed on a specific day of the week. Excuse me. Going down from the three current days down to maybe two. Uh the cities of Apple Valley and Brinsville have this type of model which allows businesses and homeowners to pick their hauler. Um but the city is divided into five districts with each district having a day of the week when their garbage is picked up. Um this is Apple Valleys again five districts. Each district gets their garbage picked up on a particular day of the week. Burnsville Burnsville is the same way. Uh the cities of Rose Rosemount uh allows businesses and homeowners to pick their hauler but limits pickup days to Monday or Tuesday on the west side of Akran Avenue which is where the majority of the residential is is at. And the homes and business on the east side of Akran are allowed to pick up uh any day of the week. That's mostly their industrial area. Uh city of Farmington operates a single hauler system and they're currently contracted with waste management to do that for the entire city. >> Do you know how long that's >> Farmington? Uh I would they used to have their own service. >> Uhhuh. >> Um so I think they >> forever they've had one hauler basically. >> Yeah. Right. So before waste dollars or before whoever had the initial contract it was always city of farmington did the services over there. >> So it's a cultural hard. >> So tonight some options for city council to consider is we can keep the current Tuesday, Wednesday, Wednesday, Thursday service districts. um keep the current or we can keep the current service area but reduce the pickup days to one day per per district. Um or we can develop an additional service areas similar to Apple Valley and Burnsville and look at you know one pickup per day per district. Um, just a note. >> Sure. >> Back in 2019, wasn't one of the things that was that the city council had to take into effect to not do it right away was the fact that the haulers were going to have to buy more trucks or was that not not something that you had to worry about? >> No, that that did not come up at that time. They they just wanted >> have to buy more trucks if we reduce the number of days. don't know that would be I mean that kind of goes my final note that if council wants to make amendments to this the next step would be reaching out to the haulers and working with them to figure out what works. >> So one of the well I' I'd be curious because I know Dan has been on some sort of some calls related to this and there's some big changes coming related to organic pickup and so we're going to be expecting more trucks. problem we created for ourselves going to this model is now the complaints I hear is oh there's too many trucks on one day it's so the complaint of oh there's trucks every day it's I get an email that says oh there's nine different trucks coming through my neighborhood but it's just one day right so it's what you know what's the trade-off on what you would rather have and so I don't know you know other than going to one hauler which I think is a really good idea how you fix that problem and so I I think I don't know I guess curious what other people think about it. You know, I is there a way to um I don't know. I don't know. I guess to try to bid some kind like you know because what do we have five right now? >> We have five right now. >> You know, do you do you make the licenses down to three and have three most competitive bids and then you grant them that way? So then it's but again I mean every hauler by 2030 you're going to have organic and maybe that does go with the yard waste too work recycling and then reg to your ultimatum I would rather have all the trucks on one day. Um, and so I would like to have the conversation of of what does that look like? Um, and make sure that those boundaries are on major thorough affairs so that trucks are not crossing through neighborhoods to get to certain districts. Um, the other thing I've that I've put out there before, I don't know if it has gotten much traction, but not to artificially uh or I should say not to force fewer haulers, but to allow the attrition naturally so that when and if a hauler decides they no longer want to service Lakeville to not reopen that permit. >> We have done I think we are we down two haulers? Yeah, I think we originally had seven licenses and over the past 10 years we've gone down to the five that we have now. >> Is um >> but it doesn't happen very fast, >> right? >> Is that because there's not as many of them that are going into the business or I mean do we have people that are calling and saying if you have a spot open up we want in? >> Well, we have the one um that's currently serving kind of new in the area. They're serving St. Paul. >> We met with And the more of the attrition came from combination. You know, people bought out another hauler and >> merged into one. Yeah. >> Merge. >> I'm sorry I interrupted your point. What was your point again? >> Uh >> you wanted to You didn't If somebody dropped out, you never wanted to replace them. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know what the magic number is, but I I think we could afford going down to four naturally, not by picking winners and losers here, but by saying the next time a hauler decides to no longer service Lakeville, we could bring it down to four. The only re the only reason I I'm a little hesitant about not replacing somebody that left if there are people that are still in the business is because you're every time we do something that narrows the competition, you ask the prices to go up. So, you know, that's the part I'm just trying to make sure that it stays affordable and competitive for people so that they have um they're not happy with the service they get from da da da a. They got people to go to to look at B, C, D, and E to see if they can get better service and a price. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one idea I had thought about was if you broke the city into some zones and allow companies to bid for a zone, right? So, because my biggest concern is, yeah, price is a major thing, but the other is if you have like waste management in Burnsville was a disaster. They were short drivers. There was no pickup, right? So my I wouldn't want to go with one company and then all of a sudden, you know, where we have no pickup. I'd want to have a contractor say, "Okay, well, one of these other three zones up the slack and then they get the business." I just don't want to have to then go out when we're desperate to get a hauler to come in to fill. That's that's my concern more from a service capacity. If you start limiting, even if you limit who's going to be in a zone, once you start limiting, you're asking for trouble and you're you're making it so I can't call up and start looking for somebody else. If the service is finally getting to the point where I can't stand it any longer, I can't find anybody else because I'm zoned for just this one carrier. And the price is what that one carrier is going to charge. Do you see do you see what I'm trying to say? And >> I totally agree with you. I'm just saying if if we're at a level so concerned about the truck traffic and we're on the roads, >> but I that's what I have. Yeah, I wait. So, >> mayor, I you know, the truck traffic is one thing and and I think that's always a um always a concern when you talk about this, but there's so many trucks on the road. I mean, it it kind of amazes me that people want trash pickup on one day, but they'll take a UPS and FedEx thing four times in the same day. >> Exactly. >> So, that's one thing in terms of of like the wear and tear on the roads. I think between when this ordinance was was enacted and today, I I think that looks totally different. I'm >> I'm not in favor of something that limits people's choices. I think people are much less concerned about the day their trash gets picked up and they're more concerned about I want to be able to competitively uh figure out who I want to pick my trash up, >> right? >> Um so a community like Apple Valley has the five zones. They have nine licenses and seven of those serve residential. And so I think you know we haven't as we continue to talk to the uh waste haulers I think it would be important if we were to expand and go to like three zones and do a day or you know do like communities do five zones then haulers have some choice about when they what they want to serve. If they don't want to do pickups on Wednesdays then they do that zone. So >> somebody who lives in that zone isn't limited by something we're telling them to do, they're limited by something where the taller is going, I don't want to be competitive in that zone. So I would think if we figure out if we were to limit days, if it's two days and we just use the route that we have here, um, and have a combination of, hey, if you live here, this is what you have available for Tuesday pickup, and if you live here, this is what you have available for Thursday pickup. And and and then let the uh the market and the haulers decide where they want to to fall in that. So there is some competition. >> Well, I thought that the whole point of having the two days, Tuesday, Wednesday, Wednesday, Thursday or whatever, was so that the haulers could schedule a route and it wasn't going to cost us more money because it gave them the flexibility to figure out where they wanted to put those trucks. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. But if we certainly if we say that this area, let's say my home area is only going to serviced on Wednesdays, I may the people that are getting things that are um from their other carriers on Tuesdays might those carriers might not come into the market then because that's not a day they can service. >> That that's exactly what I was saying. That's precisely the point I made. No. And so what I'm saying is is that people's choices aren't limited by our decision. >> Yes, it is. It's limited by our decision because we decided to bring it down to one day. So now you've limited their decision on how they because they can't service that day. >> But if we Yeah. If we limit it if we limit it to two or three haulers or four haulers, yes, that's a problem. >> No. We have more license. When you limit the days, you limited the possibility of the hollers too. >> Potentially, >> potenti potentially. >> I totally disagree with that though that I mean all these other cities were they can figure it out with one day. I mean the one area is Tuesday. I I I don't I don't completely get that. I you know don't don't concur with that. >> We won't know until we put it out there and see what that they come back with. It's just that I don't think it's that broke that >> I, you know, and I I think I was the one that raised the the the two-day thing I didn't like because my old neighborhood was the only one I've ever seen that where where you had trash cans out on both days. And to me, it's not just the wear on the road, it's the the trash of having trash cans on the road for two days out of the week >> seems excessive to me. >> My neighborhood uses both days. So, you do have one where I have a neighbor >> two days for all these different people. And I do have Amazon coming multiple times depending on what warehouse they pulled something out of deliver. So I in one day I might you might think that they would put everything together because they're going to come on Wednesday, but then I get something, you know, I get five different deliveries. >> I will say so been in this house 12 years. It's the first time I actually my hauler just sent an email to lock in our price for three years. So they're getting competitive. >> Yep. >> I'd never had that before. I don't know if other haulers are doing. >> So, do all five of those residential haulers serve the entire city? >> Okay. >> Because I I thought at one point like Buckingham only went to the west part. >> And are some of them just licensed? >> Good, but I just don't know if >> I mean they have the ability to, but I don't know that they do. >> I'm not I'm not sure. We don't know their routes >> because I think like their sites, their websites, I think you just put your address in and they'll tell you whether it's available. >> I think they might charge you more if you're like Buckingham if you're not closer to Prior Lake. I think you might get >> part of the reason we went with the districts the way we did was when we were working with the haulers they they wanted to be in that district on those days because that's when their other pickups were happening in the adjacent cities that they worked in. So I doubt that all five hollers are have customers across the city but I don't know that. And then are some just class B licensed and they don't do any residential. They just do commercial and multi-ousing. >> Two of them that just do res uh industrial and apartments. Commercial. >> So we had five. We have five. So we only have three that are doing residential service. >> No, we have we have five. >> Five. >> Class A licenses are okay. >> Class B is two of them. >> And class A license allow single family or multif family. >> All right. So those those five will do those five will do all the kind of work. If you want to come up comment come on my name is Mike Ellen. I live at 16600 Judicial Road. And this is a timely item coming up tonight because I just spent three hours walking my ditch along Judicial Road just north of Orh Orchard Lake. And it uh most of the items I picked up were liquor containers. So, it's indicative how much liquor is consumed on the roads of Lakeville. I'm sure the chief police can attest to that. But the other items that were picked up was trash blown out of the trucks. These are items that I don't think would be pitched out of a car. I picked up a piece of styrofoam 2 feet by three feet that I don't think came out of a window of a car. So, this is stuff that's blown out of the trash trucks. And I have a black bag of trash this big in front of my house right now that I have to get rid of. So, is there something that we can do with the trucks that we can seal the trucks better or talk to the drivers that they stop and pick up the stuff that's blowing out of the trucks? >> I don't know. >> I haven't really seen any of them running with the back door open. So, I you know, I I'm not saying I don't believe that you got that garbage. I just haven't seen that coming out of my neighborhood that they they still look enclosed. I think it happens >> trash blowing out sometimes when you're following a truck or something that some of the paper is coming out. >> I've seen it more like going into it blows, you know, >> right? >> The the liquor containers aren't coming out of a truck. They're they're coming out of a vehicle, >> but it's the lightweight trash that is blowing out of the trucks. >> And do you think it's because you live in an area where the speed's going to pick up? I mean, you don't have a lot of people that they're stopping for that, but they're using it as a thorough fair to get to where they want to go. >> Uh, no, I think the trucks are are uh doing the residential customers. >> Okay. >> And uh we have the bailing wind from the west right there and that's why it all ends up in my ditch. The people across the street from me never see any trash in their yards. >> Oh, they they just throw it in yours. >> Well, I don't know if it's there. >> I'm teasing. and the people them teasing. Okay, >> thanks. Appreciate it. Thank you. >> I don't really hear a consensus of us making a big change. >> Yes. >> What the actual complaints from residents are? I guess that's what I'm unclear of. >> I would say the most complaints I get re mostly now are there's just a lot of truck traffic in my neighborhood on one or two days. I say because you know my neighborhood is 12 houses total and we get served by three different providers. So as you imagine >> Yeah. That would be very annoying. >> They're all on Tuesday. Yeah. >> So it's not but I guess that's you know as as someone living close to Antlers Park. I'm more concerned about the people coming to the park than I am about a garbage truck. But okay. I was just wanting to clarify and question on what the actual >> How many times does Amazon, FedEx, and UPS come through? I have no concern. Like I have no complaints on my garbage trucks at all. Like I I don't I'm not a complaining person. >> I don't know. I know. I'm just saying >> I just wanted to clarify >> aren't just the only trucks coming through our neighborhoods every day, >> right? >> Multiple times. >> Different Amazon drivers delivering twice in my neighborhood to my house specifically because I've ordered at two different times. So, no, I understand what you're >> Okay. Sorry. I ordered single day. >> Okay. Sorry. I >> Oh, >> is there cons there's consensus about something or no? >> I'd like us to at least have the conversation with the haulers. Uh because I I think what we do have a majority not full consensus on is having this discussion on a single day map. Anything else I don't think there's close to uh in terms of reducing the number of haulers or anything like that. I don't think there's consensus on. So I think there are three. I don't know if there might be four. >> Yes. The thing is if we go to a single day I if you want to have the discussion fine. I don't I don't want it to add expense to their business or suddenly they're not going to want to and I don't want to limit the number of if if we come up with a number and it's five and somebody drops out. I would like to be able to allow it to be replaced if they wanted to because I think it's important that we have competition. My price has already gone up because of the county mandate too with the weekly um recycle versus when I had it every other week. And you know, I mean, it's just and it's getting to the point where it's like the recyclable is like full and all my garbage. Have to decide, you know, do you condense it down? Oh, well, it doesn't really save you any money. You know what I mean? So, I mean, it's just it's kind of crazy about how it just keeps going up. And I don't want to add to it or I don't want the council I shouldn't say me. I don't want the council to add to the cost to the consumers, our residents, but yet come up with a solution that makes everybody happy. It's just that we have other trucks coming through these neighborhoods more often than just our garbage trucks. So, >> how about Alan? Do you want to just do a >> those do we? >> No. >> No. >> Do you want to do a a checkin with the callers? And I think the real question is, you know, they know their logistics better. We do and potentially if you share the complaints that we're kind of hearing if they have some ideas that we may floor on how they can >> Sure. Yep. We can put some feelers out to them and see what they say and report back. >> All right. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. >> Okay. Uh, and now Miss Stall, if you want to give us the preliminary 2025 financial report on the general fund. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, I promise this will not be a long item. Uh, lots of good things to report. revenues um for the year are coming in roughly 840,000 over our budget which is um positive. Um and looking at our expenditures in the general fund the general government um we're looking at that they came in total of 476,000 under budget. public safety, so police and fire together, about 350,000 under budget. And then public works, 673,000 under budget. A lot of this has to do with staffing vacancies. We had retirements happen. So just timing issues or um positions that hadn't been filled. So that's what we saw a lot of the savings in. Um so what that brings us down for our total expenditures came in about 3 and a half% under budget. So, um, what that brings us to for the year is a change in our fund balance of roughly $2.2 million to the good. Um, we did transfer out, we had, uh, the 1.85 million of the public safety money from 2023. We got that in December of 2023 and, um, we just transferred that out for to help with the land purchase at the fire station 2. So, even with that in there, we still came out to the good at 2.2 2 million where that leaves us that for the end of the year our policy is based on our what we end up from balance to next year's expenditures. So next year's budget of um 2026 budget um leaves us at a 52% fund balance which is good just 2% over our top end of our policy. Um we are reserving or restricting an Odyssey assigning um 600,000 um is for the first year of the safer grant when that when that cliff happens when that is gone. Um and then we've got 175,000 for the 2050 comp plan. So that's what you see in that restricted fund balance of 775,000. Um this coming year at the end of 2026 we'll have another 600,000 for the safer grant. So there'll be an assigned fund balance of 1.2 million, but again that'll fall we'll make sure that it falls within our fund balance policy. So um with that I'll take any questions. There was a lot of information in the packet and various more detail. So any questions particular? >> Yeah. Do you know off the top of your head um we so the the number on the franchise fees was a little over three million. Mhm. >> What were we kind of what was like the performer? Are we hitting the number we thought we were or where are we kind of in relation to is is the target number going to pay for the first center and the fire station I guess is my question. >> Yes, we are on target and um I didn't put it all in the packet but as we structured this next set of bonds for the fire station 2 and laying out the the proforma out in the years we're doing fine and we should be fine. um we'll be able to um use some of the franchise fees toward the construction of the next phases of the fire stations. Um we didn't for this particular fire station 2 just because we want to see okay what what is it really coming in because we only have three quarters >> that we know right now. So as we see that projection and with the new houses going in and all that but um we will be fine with covering those debt issuances. So >> related to the franchise fee, one of my questions tonight was related to the revenues are broken down into residential and commercial, but there's no industrial uh franchise fee. >> Commercial and industrial are >> together. Yeah, I see. >> Together. >> Got it. Okay. >> How we have it labeled in the software. >> I didn't know if we were missing a number in No, >> I mean we're opening for a secret account of a million dollar. I don't think it would be that high, but um I did have one other question for you. I I mean having a a being under budget by two million is great. Um I had a question though about the overage of the capital outlay expenditures that were over the budget and the amended budget that we set. And I'm just curious what happened with with those funds. >> I'm not exactly sure on the capital outlay. I didn't look into I was looking more at departments and how they shook out. Um I'd have to see you know if it was something that they maybe had they were under in another area professional services other charges. So they had savings in this but oh we had this um something you know heater a condensing unit or something break at facilities or whatever it was um emergency that we had to do. Tell us what the followup I can. Yep. >> Appreciate it. Yep. >> Other questions, comments? Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um, council and committee updates. I know some of us are on new committees and not and um, >> yeah, I don't think >> Don got elected vice chair of Dakota 911, so that's good. >> I was just going to say we had that meeting in February and we did the performance evaluation and then Yeah. I uh got elected vice chair of that uh board for Dakota 911. >> This this isn't a committee update, but um Council Member Walter and I uh had a chance to go to the cap uh last week and I thought it was it's through the League of Minnesota Cities and I thought the sessions that they provided in the first half of the day were very interesting um and informative. Um, it's always a good chance to network with other city council members. Um, and then we had a chance to meet with our legislators. We're very familiar with them, but um, it was still a nice chance to be in their office talking about a couple of the things that really are important to us, particularly related to housing. Um, and so we had some conversations about housing bills that are being considered. Um, and so I don't know if you have anything else to share, but >> you know, it was it was really eye opening for me on the uh I was had been having trouble contemplating, you know, why we're losing on the housing issue in the legislature this year. Um, and it all struck me when every they were the everybody in attendance was asked to raise their hand if they had a bond b bonding project and you saw all the rural communities that are exempted from the housing bill raised their hand about bonding requests and so that it it helped um it made a lot of sense to me that that that all of a sudden we're we're that housing issue or so it seems. So, but no, it was a great it was it was a good discussion. and it was uh um our our legislators are are lock step on on that issue which I think is important. >> Good. >> Um just one little thing on the Lakeville Arenas. Carly Anderson from the school district is now the new chair um this year. And um the numbers coming in from the winter season for the um skating, hockey, etc. It's fantastic. So, we're doing good. >> Good. >> On that, is there a date already set for the joint session with the school district? I was going to make that announcement tonight. >> Okay. >> Um, yeah. So, uh, our next council meeting is April 6th, Monday, April 6th. And then we do on what would traditionally be our what we call our old work sessions on April 27th. for the first time since I've been on council. So, more over 10 years, we're having a joint meeting with the 194 school board, which has been taking quite a while to get put together. So, >> and and that'll be here. >> Be here. Yep. >> And how how long do you that will go >> on the calendar? We have from 6:00 to 8. So, I don't probably depends on how long our colleagues from the school board like to talk. I I know >> we're going to cover what topic wise and what you were thinking. >> So we've we we're going to talk about um housing and growth and some other things. I think there's going to be some conversation about school safety and if you know broad intersections where we kind of have >> and will that be before or after I'm sorry the vote on the >> before. Yep. So the referendum vote is in May then April. >> May okay. So about six weeks from today or that is when the meeting will be. With that I'll take a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Post we're ajourned.