Okay. Um, thanks everyone for attending um, tonight. I know this um, is a adding another meeting to busy schedules for board members and staff and thanks to the um, community members who are here um, as well. Um, let's go around and do um, uh, or call to order and then do pledge of allegiance, please. If everybody could stand and please. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Um, let's start with roll call. We start just go around. >> Ryan Thompson. >> I'm sorry. Go ahead. Michael Bound, superintendent, >> Kim Baker, >> Matt Swanson, Tony Rekenberger, >> Douglas, Nino, Zach, >> and Amber Cameron. >> Great. And um at our Tuesday meeting when we planned this uh special meeting, both directors um Ander or Director Anderson expressed [snorts] that she was unable to attend and um Director Swanson is able to be here for some of it. So, I appreciate that. Um Matt and then Director Carbone sense his um regrets um for tonight's meeting, but we'll catch up um prior to Tuesday. Um so with that um this meeting is solely focused on um thinking through the boundary changes uh that the school district needs to consider to um make space for all the students in our district. Um my goal tonight is to um try to get through questions, ideas, concerns that school board members have um that um from ourselves but also things that we received from the community. Um, we've received lots of emails and um, I think all of us have spent um, quite a bit of time reading those and thinking about the implications for for families um, as we try to make decisions. I also think that we think best when we're um, as fresh as possible. And so my goal is to um, try to convene this meeting around 5:30. Um, if we need if we need substantial amount of time more, we'll keep going. But um I don't think having long stretches um helps us make good good decisions for this particular topic. Um just a little context um in preparation for this meeting, board members were asked to send any questions, concerns, ideas that they had at the time. Um and those are all forwarded to the superintendent. And so I know as part of um tonight's conversation, uh the superintendent and staff are going to go through um some ideas and and um responses to to our suggestions and questions. Everyone, I think, has a copy um at the table here of of the things that were sent in advance, and there might be other things that come up as we discuss tonight. Um, I think ultimately we're having this meeting and I again I know it's a lot to add another one this week, but we want to make the the best informed decision uh for the district um for students uh families and staff. So um that's why we're here and um want to want to um kind of move us towards a decision. So with that, I may turn it over to Superintendent Bowman for um context setting. >> Yeah. So thank you uh Chair Cameron. Um, also want to uh amplify uh some of the points that the chair made, but I also uh think it's important to put context to what the district has done thus far. And um we've put these charts up uh several times. uh but I'm not sure that the efficacy and the fidelity of that has um had its intended effect. So the the chart that I'm referring to is objectives and criteria [clears throat] and um we as a planning staff and administration looked at these three things. Ensure room for long-term growth. that's across the district with uh our boundary uh adjustment plan. Maintain a diverse and balanced student body. And there's a lot of pieces in there and um those are articulated as maintaining racial, socioeconomic, general education, special education diversity within the schools to the maximum extent possible. Um, another element was to maintain the daily uh desired daily experiences that are uh distilled or articulated in the school's strategic plan. And uh we wanted to in particular in particular reduce movement of special education students to the extent possible. Maintain the integrity of housing subdivisions to the greatest extent possible. keep attendance areas connected and logical as best that we can given the how the geography and the subdivisions are laid out on in the ground on the ground in proximity to our schools as they exist in our system today. And then to minimize movement of students from current schools to the greatest extent possible. In no condition can we 100% not move students and I don't think that's anybody's objective in any of this. Um, we also are extremely sensitive to how we are laid out as schools currently. And by that I mean there's there's support systems, resourcing uh, and and setups uh, that exist in our schools now that you know can be construed as and assessed as somewhat customized. And um I think those elements are important to understand as we are having the the many conversations and I predicate that on having had the opportunity to look at the questions from different board members. Um I am a person who believes [clears throat] you work and work and work to try to get to the best solution and the best solution isn't the one in my head. It's a collective effort of collaboration uh and trying to get the best ideas and I think that's part of what we're doing here. Now, there's a lot of folks in the room here that are actually staff and those uh folks uh are subject matter experts in a variety of different areas and as an open meeting that was something I wanted to make sure that we that u people know a lot of our principles are here they want to hear and understand uh directly what's going on. and then some of my staff uh within the district office as well in case you have some questions board members that are um very detailed and need the right amplification and the subject matter expertise. Um so as I look at the questions [snorts] um one of my concerns is that maybe the objectives and the criteria that we have been working off of aren't um aren't aligned to coin a phrase and uh it would be helpful that as we're looking at this that that we get some articulation of that as planners on on how to best uh I'll redesign or refine our our plan. So uh as the chair said uh we had some questions. I know that uh Lucas uh took the opportunity to look at some of these and we want to start to attempt to answer those. And I want to start Director Baker, you're you're the first one on this list here. >> Sure. >> Can I quick ask? >> All right. Before we jump into this, I just want to make sure that we're understanding. Um, so I've had had thoughts over the past couple days on how we wanted to approach this. Um, right now we have been on a path on what would a major overhaul look like. And so when I look at the enrollment counts uh in infinite campus, uh, as I look at the data, there's a lot of data that shows the only major mission critical issue right now is High View sitting at 106%. And so, uh, I've been teasing out an idea of, uh, of us considering is there a path option A focusing on that? How would we solve that today for next year? and then have a separate conversation as a option two or a path two is what does the major design look like and and I think m the major design look look like is needed to ensure that the short-term solution feeds into that major solution but for now I think solving the major solution is going to take a while but can we find alignment on the very immediate short term in that one location for next I would like us to focus on that if we can. If that's hijacking the agenda, >> I don't know if it's hijacking anything. It's your meeting. Uh my concern with that um has to do with going back to the first effort at this in 23 when we did an extensive process. uh teamworks I think was the vendor that came in that helped us with that process and um we did a localized solution. Um when I returned here we we went through another attempt at trying to do uh a boundary adjustment in order to resolve that problem and we remain in that localized solution. But I think the second and third order effect of that has been that our community looks at that and they don't actually know all the inside baseball on that and it looks like we don't know what we're doing >> because we're not getting to a solution that has longer term stability for our community. >> And I think I was charged with finding that sort of solution. And I will also tell you with great compassion, I understand the frustration that our community has with that. And I also feel that we have to confront the reality of the situation and solve it and do that now [snorts] >> for the longer term. So, that's kind of where I'm coming from and I just want to be candid about that and make sure that that's at least on the table because what I think you're suggesting and I don't want to put words in your mouth is we do a localized solution again and then we spend more time to get a longer term solution which is fine. We absolutely that's where the will of the board is to go but it it it wasn't the charge I believe I was given. >> No, I would I would be agree. I'm wondering if by going through some of these responses um those of the five of us that are here tonight can start to think about that question like do we want to maintain with with objective one make a long-term plan or are we wondering if it's time to pause and and pursue a more localized because I I think I know your opinion for sure >> well I don't know if it's everyone's opinion so yeah >> the localiz can can spend 10 minutes on the localized one because it's a fair fairly quick one I think. >> How about can we go through these and then do that? >> Yeah, like that's fine. >> Okay. Okay. >> So, uh I was going to start with director Baker. Uh so, you asked a question. So, when I when I um we've been through boundary changes before and um one of the things that we struggled with last time is that every time we would come up with a scenario, there's always something we adjust and then it makes the half the people happy and half the people unhappy because no matter what we adjust, kids have to move, right? Um I felt like with the last adjustment that we had, um it minimized the number of multiple movers. it um made some thoughtful planning around those things. Um is it perfect? No. But nothing's going to be perfect. No matter how many times we rearrange this, we're still going to be faced with the um the thought that kids have to move. Is it something that's easy for students? No. But I also know that students respond to the adults that are around them and how they handle those situations. And I think what's a secondary concern that we have to address is what is our transition plan for those students that are moving to different buildings, particularly the students that had multiple moves. Um, making sure that we have thoughtful planning in the spring, over the summer to make sure that students feel comfortable in those environments. Um, I kind of look at it the same way that we plan around classrooms. like we meet and we talk about students, we talk about relationships, we talk about which teacher is going to work best with which student. Um, and again, if you're moving students into multiple buildings, I want to make sure staff have the opportunity and the time to be able to meet with a teacher that's maybe in the different elementary buildings so we can talk about making thoughtful classroom designs and plans for our kids. I think that's important because at the forefront all of our decisions should be what's best for kids. Um, the other things that I were concerned about were students with disabilities and making sure that they had multiple options beyond just regular planning. Um, to make sure that they can be successful in those transitions. Students with disabilities need more time to explore the building, to know where things are, to be familiar with the setting, to be familiar with the people, and it may take more than one transition meeting with their IEP team to make sure those things happen. Um, there are also students that have specific needs that would go beyond um just the team at the IEP meeting. I want to make sure that the the team that's receiving that student is at the IEP meeting so they can talk about we need these types of visual schedules. We need these types of supports within the environment so that we're setting students up for success with these moves. Um, and I want to be thoughtful and planful on how we share these plans with the adults that are receiving kids because again, they're going to take that from us. like is it going to be a positive or a negative situation and kids naturally go through transitions every year and it's difficult. You get used to a classroom, you're there all year. It's like a family and then you have to pick up and move the next school year. But we're also very thoughtful in how we do that. We prepare kids for it. We talk about it. This is what's going to happen in fourth grade. This is where fourth grade is in the building. This is your gym teacher next year. We can do those same things in these situations. I just don't want it to be, oh, you're moving. That's it. like I I just think that we need to be very specific with this, particularly sensitive to the students that are moving multiple times. So, those were my questions and um I'm looking at your your draft here. >> So, uh well, there's two things I'd like to do. Um we we understand uh and have some experience with this. I'm gonna put uh Taber on the spot because he didn't take the batteries out of his jacket this morning. Um, but Taber, I I would like you to maybe articulate from your experience and how you uh have dealt with new kids uh coming into your building and how you handle and support transitions. If you're okay with that, >> 100%. I [clears throat] would say one of the ways that we do it is what Michael called me out for is the bright yellow jacket. This is one [snorts] of our tools that we use is houses and we get everybody into a group. No surprise, I'm on the yellow house and uh so this is just a tool to make the school smaller. We do this for all students and all of our schools do similar things that we have connections and we work to make those pieces. So we bring those students in, we make them part of our community, we build the community, and then as new students come in, our communities evolve and and change. and we worked tirelessly to meet those needs and and continue evolving. So, we got to do this um with an extra focus two years ago when we made the boundary changes. We hosted um eight school events. We were out and about. Um we went to as principles. We took turns going to other schools so that we could meet the students who were going to move, answer questions, talk about things. I think in the end that it wasn't as big of a deal for the students as maybe the adults we make it to be because it's a big deal for us, but for our students, it's pretty pretty low-key, especially when they get to move as a group. They get to meet new friends, they get to see familiar faces and make some of those connections. And together, we we as a as a team pulled that off pretty well. >> Can I ask one question in response to that? Um, one of the things that, um, I know specifically with students with disabilities, they have a very tight-knit of group of people within the building that they trust and they feel secure with. Would it be possible when you do some of these um, different back to school nights or meet the new staff that we did we did them on different nights so we could be thoughtful that the people that are handing off the students are able to attend at that building because I think it would mean more to say, "Hey, this is my third grade teacher. I see her in the hallway, but she's here telling me this is my fourth grade teacher and he's a really great guy. You know, I I just think that that would be helpful because they take our their cues from us and having the ability to do that. >> Um would it be okay if we uh spend a little bit less time on the implementation but more on how we're going to get there? I I don't want to for an hour and a half, >> right? What I was going to say is I think no matter what we decide that an implementation plan will be robust. Okay. And so I think that's important for families for us to know um and appreciate the principles thinking through that already no matter what decision made today. >> Um >> does that work? Is that we don't need to go through every element. Is that okay with you? >> Okay. [snorts] Um Matt, do you want to talk about [clears throat] your questions? Does that work? >> Sure. I guess >> I align with some of them as you know. Yeah, they kind of relate to Brian's in a certain sense where um I think we all just have to acknowledge that people are going to have to move out of high view this next year and century as well. Like we just have to make those adjustments. I actually feel like we're not that far off if far off at all on the middle school side. Um but elementary school side, my my question I guess for the district was and the planning team um because the other schools are not at capacity. a lot of the other schools are not at capacity. If we take care of high view, can we do more of a phased approach for the other schools where the end goal is the plan that's currently proposed to have the capacities level out, but we do it over a course of years where students are allowed to metriculate through their school. And you know, no any new students would would stay in the new zoned areas. But if you're currently, for instance, in my for my culde-sac, uh my kids would continue to go to Lake Marion until they're out of Lake Marion and then my house would now be a East View house, you know, because there's still room in Lake Marion right now. Uh because right now we're asking essentially, hey, we're going to make room for no one in certain instances. Um so to empty the schools now or make room for future development that isn't quite here. Um, if we have the possibility of doing it in a phased approach, seems like it would be better for our students and cause less disruption. Um, I do realize this would probably be adding a couple stops on bus routes, you know, for the areas that are moving. Um, because there would be theoretically two I mean, for instance, if my neighbor a new neighbor moved in, they would be an East View family because they don't have students going right now to to Lake Marian. So, you'd need a different bus stop. Um, which might seem weird, but we're already gonna have two bus stops because, you know, right across the street from me is is like Marian now we're East View. So, there's going to be two bus stops anyways. Um, >> what's that? >> I'm not in line with that. >> It has to happen. You're going to you're going to have a boundary line wherever. I'm just on the edge of the boundary line. Yeah, >> I I agree. But >> I'm not by the school. >> Yes, >> I'm just on the edge of the boundary, >> which is fine, right? >> And we can cuz we can make these lines. We could do the switch and kids would be fine. But if it's not that much more expense >> to do this phased approach and it's not like we need the space in every school right now, >> why not why not review it and see >> I know I was interested too in thinking about this like what would the cost be >> um to allow students to stay and it could they could either like just the plan is that they stay or there could be an opt-in op perhaps option and >> I mean I think busing is a big question here but >> but I think staffing is also a question because we can't really control. We're I mean because then we're going to have kids that are moving into certain neighborhoods that like he said his neighbor could be nope now you've moved in the middle of the school year. So we have to think about we can't just add another classroom willy-nilly how we do things like it's going to impact the classrooms too. >> Well, they'd have to register, right? My neighborhood now would be East View as we're amending it, right? But if you want to if you want to go to East View, we could go to East View. If you want to stay at Lake Marian, you'd have to register and say, "Hey, is there service [clears throat] I'm going to stay at Lake Marion?" I would I would prefer that we leverage the intrad district model process for that to occur. A a boundary area is zoned to go to a certain area and that's where it goes. Now let's find out if there's capacity in other schools where you can in district and then maybe we can ensure that those kids that were previously have have priority. That's would be the better method. That way we're clearly communicating this section goes to a xyz school. Now I do agree with the phase approach. Maybe um year one that school that boundary stays in the current school. Year two, you're now moving to the next your the next area that you belong in. >> If it doesn't conflict with it, right, >> with growth, right? Yes. Agreed. >> I mean, if we're thinking, hey, there's this area down here that's going to come on and it's going to flood kids at Lake Marian. Yes. We don't want to we don't want to run into a population issue at Lake Mary. My my problem with that beyond the staffing uh is um now you're you're shifting boundaries like all the time. >> Well, you're you're shifting boundaries towards the end state. >> Yeah. >> And so we again this is why there's a two-parter path. What is the short term? What is the long term? And then the incremental steps to get to that long term. That that's how I because the incremental steps would be you're not moving kids multiple times. You're you're not moving boundaries multiple times to get to that end state. Whenever it's whenever it's the right time for that boundary to move to the end state, that's when it moves. >> Yeah. You're you're only accommodating who would be the movers if we just did it. >> Yes. >> We just did it right now. And I don't know what the number is, Lucas, on the movers >> for which for elementary. >> I mean, how >> 568 total movements. >> So potentially 56. It's going to be a lesser number because high view we just have to move kids >> and they wouldn't be able to get the accommodation unfortunately or not all. I mean a portion of them wouldn't um because again high view doesn't need to be 65% next year. Yeah. >> Right. >> It could be 75%. 80%. I mean we have to make room in the future. >> So if the boundaries are going to be what the you know what were proposed and that's the goal what if it takes us three four years to get there right? I mean, you make the boundaries, but then for instance, my neighborhood's a simple example. There's 13 kids in elementary school. Those are the 13 kids that you're you're concerned with in our our zone. You know, the area that's going to Christine Hudson from East Street right now, there probably aren't that many kids there. Those are the kids, but otherwise, everybody else in the neighborhood stays is now in the new boundary zone, right? What's how does that how what I I know you Michael you already added a few comments but what are your thoughts about that type of idea beyond what you already said? Well, I I guess I would have to gauge out the the flow in and out of there and then um do I have to add classroom or classroom space uh doing midyear um movement of teachers um >> which isn't allowed, right? >> Why would that be needed? >> Yeah, I I I don't know. I'm not sure if it is or is not needed. I also I don't know Robin uh from your perspective on administering the intra district andor managing that or or Douglas um on how we would be able to institute that kind of movement uh in the system because the other thing I have to do is keep the system and the communication with each of those families >> um straight. Any thoughts? >> Um well right now intra district transfer is not closed for the Yeah. So, we're accepting applications. During the last boundary change, we did close it. We But um also the plan that you guys are talking about would um if you're an approved introductory transfer student, you provide your transportation. >> Um we can't have buses going everywhere. Do you know what I mean? So, that's part of it too. And it's based on numbers at each school in each grade level. >> So, it would be whatever capacity at each grade level, the total capacity at the school and then the grade level. So like right now we have a chart um that shows capacity for this year and he's red like it's no you know no one can get in but if it's green we have availability but it's still based on the numbers and growth. So >> and I don't know if Dave uh based on what you heard Dave Moore is transportation u planner for uh Schmidian Sons based on what you heard. >> Well I mean to just keep track of the kids. So, my biggest fear, I roll up to the neighborhood, you're stopped within 2 minutes of the other school stop. Susie, Timmy, whoever gets on the wrong bus. Now, I've just taken her to the other school because she accidentally get on the wrong bus, and that doesn't happen. Um, not often, but that's probably my biggest concern is kids. I'm going to have two buses following each other down the same road. >> Yeah, but I mean, we have that at boundaries right now. Like, I mean, there's a Kenwood and a Century stop like Kitty Corner from each other in my neighborhood, >> not at the same intersection. So if you live in a culde-sac and half your that culde-sac is got some kids going to one school and now you're staying at the home school. I'm going to need to stop at that culde-sac because nobody wants to walk. I already get enough complaints about that that I'm making people walk too far and be really honest. Sorry. But so they're not going to want to be like, "Oh, we're just going to move the bus stop here." And then somebody's going to be mad because we moved the bus stop away from their house. So that's my only concern is now I'm going to be traveling down the same road, same buses, and kids are going to go the wrong places. Well, and we can work that out. I just want you to have awareness of the other >> I do realize there'd be some administrative leg work, you know, >> but if the goal is like the least amount of complications and stress on these kids, then it's I mean, you can do the pay it on the admin side or you can pay it on the counseling side. You know >> what I was when when you and I touched base about this idea. I mean my my thought was let's get the fifth graders through how like if we make if we go with E1 but let let current students grandfather in like if we got the fifth graders through how much how how much cushion do we have until we get it get into a overpopulation issue at any of the schools? like how many grades could actually metriculate before there's a concern. >> Um knowing that the new builds are happening over time. >> So just something to think about. Tony, do you want to go into yours? >> Well, I mean I it's one of the things I actually talked about is just the ability um yeah high view is the problem. I mean everybody knows it. Um for the most part um I think most parents in the in Lakeville are are fine. they're going to the same schools. It's the ones that are moving that are upset, rightfully so, and scared and worrying. Um, and the most we can do to minimize the impact on their lives, the happier everyone's going to be. Um, I thought the idea of grandfathering in the district lines makes some level of sense to some in some capacity. Um, one of the things I I was interested in is just knowing the um, breakdown of High View and probably the surrounding schools that are impacted, those boundaries based on a grade level. Um, who's, you know, if if someone in first or second grade now, the parent doesn't want them to move from High View to East View or from, you know, Cherry View or however it gets moved. How does that impact the individual school? Um, how many people are, you know, is it a few people? Is it a lot of people? Um, will any of them go over capacity? That's, you know, that's what I was interested. Um, looking at the map between East View and what's what will be going to, um, Christina Hudson, uh, I was curious why it cuts into south of 185th. To me, 185th seems to me to be a a pretty notable dividing line. Um, it's a good boundary. Um, >> what schools did you say again? Sorry. >> It's Yeah, it's this area just south of 185. Um, the area from East View that's going to be going to Christina Huddleston. >> Okay. >> It is going down south more and I kind of get that. that I mean if the boundaries are going to change and and we have to adjust understand but I'm wondering why what the purpose of was going below 185th um you know to me I think one of the things that uh a lot of parents and a lot of people understand they understand landmarks they understand tangible boundaries that make sense one of the things I like about the new boundaries is how it uses for instance Dodd as a nice boundary line for much of the much of the district for high Um that makes sense to me. It makes sense to you know parents who can see that and say okay this is a major road. This is going to be a dividing line. Um I think the more we can utilize you know infrastructure like that obvious obvious markers like that to divide areas I think the more people will understand it. Um and that just to me makes sense. Um, you know, I know we talked about this at the last meeting, um, and it was long-term, the M2 portion, which is way up in um, the norththeast corn, sorry, northwest corner of the district, and then that would eventually go to, if M2 was approved, it would go all those kids would go to Meuire. Um, that makes no sense to me. Um, geography does matter when making these districts. Why are we sending the people who are in the most northwest corner to the most southeast school? Um, you know, people would look at that and be like, I don't get it. Why are we doing that? There's got to be a more efficient, more effective way. Um, and I think that sums up kind of how I'm approaching this generally. um you know um and looking at um um Matt's comments um about Queen Anne and Court um you know it's closer to Portra um it makes more sense even from that to go to Christina Hudson because it's basically Christine Hson's on the way it's right there those two are those two are both proximally um more more approximate to where that is located than East View um so it's just maintaining that level of geographic familiarity and geographic common geographic boundary lines just makes more sense to me than um some of the some of the items. Um again like high view I get the problem. Um I get um how we're we're approaching it and I I think the phased in approach and the grandfather approach makes sense to me in some capacity and it's just a matter of how we get from A to B. Um, I agree that like if we could if we could draw boundaries with roads or forests or whatever that makes the most sense. Um, I feel like that logically makes sense, but I I think and I don't know if either of you you want to jump in, but I think every time I've asked about like, well, could we move a line here instead? It's like, well, that throws off like the the composition of that school. And so I think a lot of the lines are drawn to keep us both in compliance with statute but also goals of the district. I I don't know if that's >> and I I do get that. I mean I know there are >> socioeconomic there's other factors that that factor into that. >> Um but I I I don't think I mean looking at this I don't think the numbers that are below 185th are going to throw that off entirely that much. >> Do we want to answer the 185th question? [laughter] Yeah. Sure. So the 185th question uh basically was twofold. The this whole process is tradeoffs. >> Okay. If if we're not going to move that, then what are we going to move in order to get meet the criteria of balancing out the schools, which is the chief criteria that we're going after. So in that area there I needed to carve more room out of East View. There was room in Huddleston for it. I couldn't take room out of I couldn't put them into Lake Marriiam for instance because I need to take room out of there so we can fit Lake View students into there. It's it's a puzzle piece of those kinds of things. So, the twofold was to remove um some students out of East View to make more room for uh putting the Crescent Ridge neighborhood into East View because it was so much larger than the Choke Cherry and the Feldman that we didn't want to move. And so to do that tradeoff, I had to make more room, put them into Huddleston. that has another uh effect of being able to to bulk up Huddleston more for the future so that it's got a uh it's on the uh low growth side of things. Uh no no new housing in that area so it's better to bulk up the the Huddleston so that it as it as it either declines or plateaus can continue to be a fairly robust size school. And and that's the reason that that neighborhood was added on in this last revision was that shuffling of okay, we want to make more room for Lake View. We want don't want to overload Lake Marian. We need to make more room in in East View. Therefore, >> everything kind of goes back to the criteria, right? What's designed here is [clears throat] predicated on if you if you recall the E1 layout, right? and and uh what the end state is in terms of capacity in our buildings in order to assimilate future growth. That that's and and that is what the conversation what these questions are are changing that and we would need some clear criteria direction and we will redesign the map. We can do that. >> But from November and actually going all the way back, we've had criteria articulated and I I will ask again politely. If you tell me what the criteria is for the design, I will do that. But it won't, you know, it brings the questions that you ask, right? Why 185th or why not this or why not naturally that? And if geography is the thing, that's criteria. And if that's the thing, I have to figure out how to balance socioeconomic and other requirements within that so I can give you that answer. Um, and I think things just kind of distill back there. I tried to use a process of what I believe I was told was the criteria and you were real specific about that. >> Yep. >> And that's why I tried to do it this way because I I it's too >> it's [clears throat] too difficult to please everybody. And I just want to ask again if you if if we can maybe distill it to some criterion, >> then we can maybe match some of that. >> And I I don't want it to what I'm saying. And I I don't want it to reflect like make it seem like >> none nobody's done a good job. I think everybody's done a really great job putting this together so far. >> Just so Tony, just so you know, I'm not that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying as staff planners, >> administrators, whatever term you want to use for us, >> if we know what the criteria is clearly articulated, >> I think we have enough smart people to lay that out. And I just I I'm taking personal responsibility for the fact that this is laid out based on the criteria that we have been articulating. And I know that's frustrating >> and and and kind of what I'm saying is that like all these different factors um and there are different you know priorities and different factors and variables that factor in it um collectively as a whole those are a little bit abstract. It's like putting it all together and putting together a plan that incorporates all of those various things into the >> and it's like without I mean right without proper instruction as far as how we prioritize this this and this this um it's it's confusing. It's not helpful. I I get it. Um but at the same time it's like um it's not if if you prioritize one factor over all the others, you end up with situations where you get odd results that you're like, "Okay, now that doesn't look right." And it's just like and that's kind of where we're trying to we're trying to get to maybe here and maybe like a positive result. >> And that's just kind of what I'm saying. Um I think what everyone's done has been fantastic, >> right? Cool. Um, I just do think that there's some strange questions here that like >> might have might have might be easily fixed. >> Douglas, you have something to add to that? >> Yeah, I just uh another example and I appreciate you did point out that you know we did use DOD in circum so it's not like we disregarded the geography. You you pointed that out. It it's just that as you were saying when you choose one priority of another, well then okay, I have to choose this priority. So this is how this happens. The other example you brought up was the M2 with why would we bring all these students up here down over here? Because we didn't want to move the Ferris region legacy students. So where else are we going to get them? >> That that's how that happens. >> You got to go further up and then almost to the east. Like you got to cover those folks. >> And the advantage of that would be that they continue on the south together. >> Yeah. It seems like most of our challenges is with the or not I shouldn't say challenges both most of our um interest in in tonight is about elementary seems like we're fairly and maybe you can add if you're not but closer to to the middle school in the sense that as far as I can tell correct me if I'm wrong the boundaries basically follow north south with Kenwood continuing to be the split and I think that is nice for kids to like stay with peer groups as much as possible Um, Matt, you wanted to add? >> Yeah, I mean, I just I do want to clarify. I don't not like the map. I mean, I think uh you do kind of create somewhat of a circle around the schools and the location of the schools just make it very difficult. You know, that's the reality. We can redraw lines wherever we want. I think the challenge here is just exacerbated because you did a major shift two years ago, right? >> Yes. Um and so that's why again if we hadn't done that I wouldn't be as opposed to just saying let's just do a hard change. >> Yeah. >> But putting kids through that you know twice and or multiple times in two years. I'm like maybe we can have some additional consideration here. Um but otherwise I like where we could get with this right. I think this is a great could be a great end result. I guess my only question was can we can we phase it so it doesn't affect the kids as much. I did want to clarify Queen Anne Court too because and somebody actually we get a lot of emails and somebody actually raised this in the email because Queen Anne Court is the only East View neighborhood that then goes on to Maguire and South High School. >> Um and I don't know if the question if if the answer is we just can't handle that population at Orchard Lake, those 34 kids. Um or if there's another option to address that, >> you can you can handle them at Orchard Lake. The issue is the criteria that that was established. >> Just Orchard Lake is a is >> has 333 kids. It can fit 500, >> but it's also got a school and a school with impact academy that makes it a little bit more um it's non-standard to the rest of our elementary schools. So, that program has um I don't know uh if we would have to push kids into there that maybe didn't want to be in there. Um and that's a legacy problem uh that >> is in need of a solution but now is not the time to go through that other than to say that Impact Academy is a school in a school and it's not standard like every other school that we have. So when you talk about it in terms of enrollment, >> um >> I think that's an anomaly scenario for us. >> I think I had a similar question with you around Queen Anne neighborhood. Um and that is I think that's about the 6% of students from East View that would attend Maguire. How many students is that? >> It's 29. >> 29 per year. >> No, 29 total. >> So like divided by six. So like we're talking just like a couple students each year. that would have to >> roughly >> I feel like most of the splits are enough student like you'd be moving with enough of your students to a school. That one seems really low and so just um yeah um Brian I think you have similar thoughts to Carly with some of this. Do you want to your perspective? I'd like to get more tactical and just actually provide a solution and then get your feedback on my I'm sorry, provide my solution and so forth. And so, uh, south of 185th, there's going to be some growth there. I know that Preserve has 49, uh, locations coming. Uh, Orchard has, uh, Kenyon at Green. I think there's 65 roughly, I don't know, 150 additional headcount is what I'm envisioning over the next however many years it takes for that to to develop. But south of 185th, there's going to be growth there. That's going to happen. But the bottom line is that can we can we go to infinite campus or can we go somewhere that can show what is our current enrollment metrics right now on the web on the screens or can we not do that? I just want to make sure that we all are on the same page with what problem are we trying to solve in elementary and and so let's put all the criteria just off to the side for just a moment the future state design for just a moment and see like where are we and what are we trying to do because when I look at the enrollment counts on infinite campus in all of our nine elementary schools >> uh and maybe it might be in one of your PowerPoint slides or that that you had the only number the only school that is above 83% is High and it's 105.9%. And so they've got 741 kids and uh I don't know if you can zoom in or not, but >> the capacity is 700. So that's the problem that we're trying to solve. Um whatever design that we align on with uh any changes today, we do need to also think about all of the developments that will be coming. And so will any minor change that we make today, will the existing schools and their current capacity in elementary be able to absorb those developments? Now, I don't have the answer for that, but that might be an exercise part two. But the exercise part one we've got to solve is High View. Again, it's 741 kids. We've got Christina Hudson sitting at 59.7, Cherry View sitting at 70% and and I think we I want you to remember that 70% at Cherry View because I want to come back to that. Uh East View 62. So the bottom line if like like there isn't a missionritical change except for high view right now for elementary and all right so the proposal that I have is if we can go to the interactive attendance map uh and zoom in on high view right now the current model uh that's uh that's a future state design if we can do the current model that we have today. The current model that we have today is you've got Summerland and Crest Ridge on the bottom. >> Elementary current right there. >> So the current design that we have today that that is that has been enforced for the past [clears throat] year and a half because we're in the second year of this particular uh boundary change. uh Summerland and Cres Crescent Ridge. The bottom those two bottom kind of segments is about 200 what 250 kids 271 kids. No matter what those kids have to move eventually in the larger design scheme uh there there isn't going to be capacity for them to be in Hive View or at or at Lake Marian. There's just there's too many kids in that bucket. But these these kids have would be moving three times in the course of the entire their entire elementary years. So if you're a second grader from I think I'm assuming they came from East View, they are they moved to High View for fourth grade and fifth grade and then they're moving again for their fifth grade. And so my recommendation is that uh what can we do because looking at the enrollment counts at all the other elementary schools, none of them are mission critical. Can we hold off for one more year to show a little bit more stability? Let these fifth graders graduate elementary and then move on. And then for those who ended fifth grade and go into sixth grade, well, for wherever they're at, three years there, and maybe that's a separate conversation. I haven't looked at middle school very closely, but for for high view, here's my solution. If you can zoom in or maybe you can go to Google Earth on Pinnacle Reserve towards the top. Uh there is a creek that goes diagonal uh from Dodd all the way into Cherry Views uh south of 182nd Street West and Hidden Creek Trail. So I don't know if there's a way you can make a box or XYZ. I don't know if you actually if you go in the in the word document that's that was passed out. If you go to the last page top image, you'll see kind of like where it's crossed out. Uh the image that you're seeing is actually the future state design and then the top part of that image already goes to cherry view in the future state design. My recommendation is what would what what would it look like if we actually made the bottom part of of of that actually go to chair? It'll go to chair view. So the headcount for that section right uh is what do we what do we land on? 151ish maybe I can go to Douglas. How many students are currently going to currently in that population >> you said this morning it was 156 157 >> 157 >> Can I clarify that this is your proposal just for >> this next like a shortterm [clears throat] solution to bring high view down to what capacity? Yes. >> I think Brian wants to go back to a localized >> I want to go back to a localized model. >> The original >> and let me Yeah, >> but I want to know like what does that like just moving that neighborhood to Cherry View? What does it bring High View's capacity to? Because I'm not in alignment to leave High View over capacity. >> Totally makes sense. So High View right now is sitting at about 750. You've got about 150 kids in this bucket. That would drop that drop them down to about 600. >> [clears throat] >> If the if the capacity is 700, you're sitting at about 85%. That's where High View would be if the only change that you made right now was move that group up north to Cherry View. >> So, they would also be multiple movers. >> Pardon me? >> Yes, they would be multiple movers. >> You're just switching multiple movers. >> We are, but these multiple movers would ultimately end up being at Cherry View anyways >> with the new plan. >> With the new plan, Correct. Yep. And then and so and I don't know if this group came from Cherry View before or not. And so and and so then if you end up moving them >> say this group do you mean the Summerland group or do you mean this group >> the Pinnacle Pinnacle? >> Yeah. That north that group that that is >> Do you know the answer? >> Summers Creek. >> What are you talking Oh, the multiple movers. >> Did the Pinnacle neighborhood Yeah. move from Cherry View to High View? Pinnacle neighborhood was I believe in Oak Hills, but I can >> it was like I like I say it was a tapestry. It was all weird because it was a new development and we're used to doing that. Uh I I think because of that move if you ended up because it's a very clear division and you can move the 150 students up it drops High View down to 600 students 85% and we've got a little bit of a breathing room knowing that we can go to 750 kids. Obviously we don't want to because but but we know that we can handle it if need be but uh moving those kids those students up to Cherab will give us some flexibility. Now for the left side of Pinnacle, you've got Klano and you've got about 53 kids. Uh so if you go back to the pre Yeah, if you go to that map on the lefth hand side, the little blue that's kind of sticking into Kasano, you've got 53 kids there right now. The south of Klano, they're currently zone to go to East View. And it looks it's super wonky. Obviously, if if you if we assume 53 more kids would be added with that Klano that group because it's a neighborhood, it could potentially move our 600 600 estimated students to 650. Now, we'll get closer to 90, but this is just a one-year temporary band-aid until we do the major shift in in 2027. And then in Autumn Hill, >> so if this is just the first shift, how is this present? How is this preventing any additional kits? Like I just think we're prolonging it over several years instead of just doing it and getting done with. >> So So [clears throat] but what we're but what we're doing is we're minimizing the amount of ma major moves that we can right now because >> but they're going to be moved anyway, >> right? But the yes, they are going to be moved. But can we have these students be in their schools for at least three years instead of two? So you're just really the fifth grade class is the one that would >> but we'll have the same situation again because then we'll have fifth graders the next year that will have the same right. >> So again we're not changing >> but we're making a massive change for all the boundary changes. It's not just one location because we're going to make changes across the board. >> So what >> you're put you're just putting lines in different spots. >> Right. That's what I'm saying. >> Yeah. >> Because I mean we're still dealing with the same problems, right? You want to address high view, but then we're also shifting everyone up essentially up and west. >> Yeah. >> To make room for, you know, the south southwest growth, the east growth, >> but there's no need to make a major shift right now. >> Yeah. >> Like why why why why would we want to do this when we don't need to make a major shift? None of the buildings show that they >> So question is timing, right? Timing. So >> but why do we want to make a shift? like I have a tough time want making a boundary shift in like two years versus what what is what would be the disadvantage of holding it off for one more year. >> Sure. So what would be the what would be your objection if we looked at the proposed boundary changes but phased it where you didn't shift everyone right away you shifted to address high view and century and then we still accomplished what the second goal was was to you know level out the schools but it's >> I wasn't tracking on that one can you what what are you thinking >> so you're saying you're just saying let's let's move a different group of kids away from [clears throat] high view now we need to group we need to move a group >> a group no matter what >> why don't we move a group that is already in the current map so we have some certainty for people moving forward like hey this is the map we want to get to right yeah that's going to be the map >> you know because it's not I mean could you find agreement with the current map but just you don't like the timing >> I am not in the well I'm not aligned with the current map I don't think so because I think there is a pocket north of Um, hang on. Summerland. So, Summers Creek >> or some or something close to the current map, I should say. >> Yes. With the Well, something close. I mean, I think there are pockets in here that I don't like. For example, in Orch Oak Hills, like I don't want that section on the left hand side. How do we preserve this like this? This boundary has already been approved >> two years ago. The left hand side's been there for decades, >> you know, or for a decade. >> Like these are not recent changes for like for example. >> So the box that we're sending over to Cherry Christina Hudson, like that's new, >> right? That is new, >> right? And then and so I think that should stay in Oak Hills, right? So I guess I mean and then you've got a little section down in uh Cherry View that that currently goes to East View uh that now now is going back to Cherry View. And then I I guess the concern that I have is that you've got this pinnacle reserve area, right? You're you're breaking that boundary up a little bit towards the top. It could be a cleaner cut in my mind if you if you um do that diagonal and then you can go further eastwards. >> But >> so I think for me it's like I think we have like what should the boundaries be and then how do we address impacted families? Like I'm not opposed to this map necessarily. I just want to try to minimize [snorts] impact on kids moving. Well, and I I think I mean they reduced it quite significantly from the first goound to the second goound, >> which is why I was more concerned about the plan moving forward for that transition. >> And when we were talking about it, we all said around this table that it's adults that are making more of the deal about this than kids because kids can adjust. So, >> can I just say that while I I understand that um kids don't probably have the means to communicate their concerns other than directly in the building to their teachers and >> and the adults have to advocate for their >> absolutely other students. So, I just want to frame that. >> Can I ask if we did this change right >> E1? >> Let me rephrase it. If we did my proposal, >> okay, >> uh >> just the Pinnacle neighborhood. >> Just the Pinnacle neighborhood, right? And then and then allowing the Klano neighborhood to feed into High View as well. Uh you would leave a Autumn Hill to East View for now because that's an entire neighborhood block. When we do whatever the major change, Autumn Hill would come back. Yes, it would be a move, but what they're coming back to a move that would be more permanent uh when they end up moving. But you're sitting at you you would have hes sitting at about 85 to closer and then if Klano comes in you sitting at about lower you know maybe upper 80s percent for the next yearish or so. Would would that be satisfactory? >> No. >> With with the only move that we make in elementary because there isn't a need to make a move. [clears throat] >> I'm not aligned with that because 85% is not using the classrooms. We're over capacity on classroom spaces already. Um so then again like the things that are occurring there now when we talk about an optimal learning environment we have deep classes happening in the hallway because the deep gym is now an art room and the fifth grade classroom is in the STEM room and the second grade classroom is in you know all these different spaces. So even if we only adjust to 85% there are still students that are not in an optimal learning environment when if we just made that decision now and evened out the buildings they would be. So then I mean I I have to think about yes it's hard this is a hard discussion and I understand that people are are upset because anytime your kid has to move it is not the scenario that we want like none of us sitting around this table wanted to be making a decision about moving students again after we just did it two years ago but like I don't want to prolong it I just want to any way we move the line kids are moving >> these kids as those kids everybody's it's people are moving and we have to shift shift so many students out of high view that it has to impact more than one building because then we don't want to put this building over capacity. It's it's a very >> we're shifting we're shifting 150 students and then that and then we're done >> but it still doesn't leave an optimal learning environment over capacity. >> So what happens in that design at Cherry View in terms of its uh >> Cherry View goes up to about 83%. >> 80 87.8%. >> Which again? So then we have two buildings that are over capacity. So, >> but the change is minimal is what I'm saying. >> The change is minimal, but you still have then you're just sharing the sharing the um pain because then you have two buildings that are over capacity that do not have all of the kids just having class in regular classrooms. They're in different spaces that weren't intended for classrooms. And you're doing that down to two buildings when if we just redrd the boundaries that wouldn't happen at all. That's what I'm saying. It sounds like many of us are maybe interested and and even you and in in this the E1 plan eventually maybe but I I I'd like to hear a little bit more about like how how might intradist transfer work or how could this grandfather idea could anything like that play out? Right. Is is that is that kind of where you're at Matt and Tony you too? >> Yeah. And the challenge with and I would even say on intra district transfer I know there's certain requirements right like you're not going to get busing or it has to be classrooms but the reality is we add busing and we add classrooms as needed anyways if somebody moves into that neighborhood. Um and we lose busing or classrooms or adjust it if somebody moves out of the neighborhood. Um so yeah I would be curious to see how it would play out. Um because I think getting to the E1 model or map or even providing that certainty for the future would be good for the district. I'm just wondering if we could use a different approach to a slower approach to get there so it has less of an impact on kids. And I don't >> there is I don't think there'll be a slow approach because if you're going to make this if you want to get to that point then you got to rip the band-aid say we messed up over two two years ago. We got to redo the whole thing. Everyone's got to move. >> Period. No, I mean for High View, >> well, it's not even High View. We we'd have to make changes for East View. We got a ton of stuff coming on the on the west of 185th. You've got Ranch and even at Lake Marian area. You've got uh Baris, Amelia, Cedar, Ka Ka Crossings. I mean, that alone could actually add an additional 200 kids, guys. Like, that's a lot of people >> in a year. I mean, that's the thing. Like, >> not in a year, but >> well, if we don't know if it's coming in a year, then we do a short bandaid and let's see what actually materializes over the next year. And then we actually have the data to say where are we going to move kids in 27 >> moving them again. >> We're not the only ones that we're moving is pinnacle you guys. That would be the only the plan is based on growth. My my whole thing is if it's >> if we do the readjustment right now then we've got a number of schools that are at 65% or whatever. Right. And they don't need to be at 65% right now or even for the next two years. Um >> well I don't think they'd be at 65% because of the other development areas across our boundaries they are going to go and so they will the it might actually help us that they are low for whatever reason that they might catch up but >> well eventually and that's that's the goal of you want >> but we would have a trueer picture in 12 months of how many developments are actually here how many kids are actually in those developments and then we create a design that makes sense gives us a chance to think through do we transition Orchard Lakes Impact Academy model, do we go back into a different different approach? Um, and when and we look at Orchard Lake, is that a building that we want to continue or do we want to transition that out? You you have some more time to think through for that m that much larger picture versus and then you'd give families, you'd give students stability for a three-year term in their current design that's already socioeconomic, whatever already approved by Teamworks that was done a year and a half ago. And then we're set for elementary. That's that's my position. Well, let me rephrase that. That's my proposal. But if there is an alignment, then we'll we'll do the massive change and then I'll go to page two. >> So, I I get what you're saying. >> Thank you. >> I understand what you're saying. Um, I think my concern from a school district standpoint is that if we do the move now and not gradually, it's easier for district staff to plan for staffing, classroom sizes, all of that. I I think it leaves so many different question marks with we're just leaving a lot to chance on how some of that happens instead of just making the decisions now, which makes it easier for us to plan. Now, I'm not saying it's not impo it's impossible because we've never really done it that way. Um, but I do I do have reservations about not just doing the whole boundary change and the graduated system. I I just I think like I think about all the planning that goes into um staffing and >> well the only >> everything like it just and transportation. I just think it's >> well the only change is that that pinnacle area that has 151 kids. it impacts two schools, one >> I'm not in alignment with that plan. I'm talking about the graduated plan. I'm not in alignment with that plan because I don't think we need two buildings above capacity when we can fix it all now. >> So, I know in a slide at one of our meetings um from the from the district, it talked about priority going to the current fifth and eighth graders for inner district. Was that is that true? >> That's correct. and and multiple movers. I think as >> getting them as a priority >> it hypothetically if all fifth grade families chose to or they wanted to do inner district and all eighth grade could we accommodate that? >> Depends on what you mean by accommodate. >> Yeah. Yes. Or >> and and again coming to Michael's point we need to know what the criteria is. Do we push them up to 85% uh and make it uncomfortable as director Baker was pointing out because now they're at 85% and they have to adjust learning spaces for that or do we make it 80% or do we make it 75%. Then obviously not all of them are going to be able to go to all the schools of their choice >> just even even if they could do the transportation >> because for some of these schools it's pretty low the number of students who are moving out, right? So some of them in theory the fifth graders could stay >> but obviously not >> online with double transportation just leverage the >> I'm not saying that I'm just saying inter district process. >> So then let's look at high view then in the current model if that is so if we do the future state design in M2 or E2 or whatever it is uh in the current design how many students are active active in in high view right now because I don't think it's 650 >> in the current design. >> Yeah in I'm sorry not in the current design. Yeah I'm sorry in the proposed design. Echo one. >> Yeah, Echo One. That's what you guys want >> because Kasano hasn't been built out. Autumn Hills hasn't built out. The bottom right hand side hasn't been built out. So, I'm [clears throat] just curious how many active students would actually be there in >> in September. >> In September. Yeah. >> So, for maybe 300. >> Okay. 400. >> 477. >> 477. All right. So, then >> which is 68%. >> Yeah. But there's still growth going on in that neighborhood. Um, while you're looking at something, can I ask a transportation question? Is our transportation um is it per route or is it per student on how we're built for that? >> I'm not understanding your question. >> Like for our contract, >> $20,000 for a bus, 50 kids a year. >> Okay. So like I just I'm trying to consider the impact of like if you have a neighborhood where you're you're gradually building out and then that adds multiple stops, it also adds multiple routes. So I'm trying to think financially of what that impact is based on our current contract. >> You're not building first. You're building for route. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Tony, did you want to say something earlier? I'm sorry. Well, I was just like um and the conversation was uh about the fifth graders, you know, if everybody stayed um at H High View, what that would look like. And it's not going to be everybody, but you kind of want to get the sense of it. Um just breaking it down by like if you know, I'd say maybe, you know, 100, 75, 50, 25. Just getting those numbers would just kind of be helpful. Just get a sense as far as like how much the capacity would just break down. um if everybody, you know, because obviously I think honest the ones that moved previously because they had because when when they first moved to High View, I think those would be the ones that would want to stay and then you'd get a breakdown after that of people saying, "Okay, I'm I have to move once. Maybe I'm okay with that." You'll probably get a little bit more flexibility there. And just kind of knowing the numbers as far as like how those broke down would help. um shine some light on what kind of capacity issues there might be if we did grandfather this in. >> So grandfathering at High View would mean the fourth graders would stay plus um >> movers move in. >> Plus the movers move in. So we would how many fourth graders we have at high view >> and yeah just getting a sense >> 132 >> 152 >> 132 >> 132 >> sorry >> that's okay >> I'm a little older than I used to hear as well >> but it also means that >> the numbers on the lower end the first graders and the kindergarteners those numbers are different as well because those are just moving there for the first It's only the the you know you know they're Do you see what I'm saying? I mean >> I think our issue with high view is like I mean that's like >> but you see what I mean I'm doing a terrible job of articulating this. I'm sorry but do you kind of get a sense of what I'm saying is just that the double movers obviously you don't want to have to move twice and those people would want to stay where they're at. >> Yeah. I I looked at those numbers in infinite campus and I really appreciate after our December board meeting looking at how to reduce the number of multiple movers and we and the plan the new plan definitely does that and then I'm like okay how can we get this down even more the problem is >> they're basically all at high view the rest of the multiple movers and so and we need to take students out of high view um >> so I don't know if there's a way to reduce our multiple movers unfortunately like >> there is some neighborhood is going to have to move. >> And and then High View is like super dense. Like it's the most dense out of all of all the neighborhoods. It's just it's it's problematic >> for High View. The the six what is it the 477 number? >> Uh how that's the active number of students right there. So have you included the bottom half of Kaslano in that 477 number? whatever we had in the proposal that was proposed la uh earlier in the week. >> Yep. >> That's 477. >> Okay. So, the but the bottom half that that they're building homes and and whatever estimate number of kids we expect there is that included in the 477. >> There is a growth factor in there based on our district growth for that. >> Yes. The short answer is yes. cuz we have 53 kids already on the top half of Klano. I'm assuming you're adding 53 kids on the bottom half in and that and that should be part of the 477 number or is that part of the 477 number? >> It is projection. >> That's a projection. So then west of High View in Autumn Hill, how many students are you expecting there? >> West uh >> we can do projections based on particular >> neighborhoods. We did a growth. >> It's a growth factor >> for the whole school. >> But what number are you using? I mean, how are you doing a growth? Because if so, if if I subtract 53 kids from Kaslano because they're not there yet out of the 477, you got 427 kids in that building. If you added a growth factor for Autumn Hill and they'll and those people aren't even there yet, and you subtract another 50 kids out of that out of that 477 number, you've got 377 kids active at High View. So next fall you've got a school that's at 60% capacity. >> We cannot that's what I'm hearing. >> We cannot with fidelity predict which people are going to purchase which houses and where. >> Agreed. Yep. >> So we go off of a growth factor of 1.032 which is what our what over over the whole school over the whole district and we apply that to the schools. So that 477 number includes all the current kindergarten through fourth grade who would be staying in High View plus the projected kindergarten numbers plus the growth factor. >> Chair Cameron, I just want to be mindful that you wanted to stop at 5:30 and it is >> potentially yes >> 5:15. >> Yep. So, if we're going to direct the district to change some of the criteria or have anything ready for Tuesday, we need to provide some direction. >> Yep. I agree. >> It seems that I realize we're missing two board members tonight, but that at least those that were here tonight want to continue to pursue E1. However, I think better understanding how inner district transfer what the I think we know the process like technically how a family would enroll in it and and but what is the capacity um like we you know we can say >> so so it we have the threshold set so if it's a low growth school then we will set that threshold at 80% >> for all schools for >> for low growth schools and then if it's a high growth school it'll be 70%. So if we if it goes up and down >> provide room >> based on that based on the where the actual enrollment is if there's you know 3% space then we could offer interd district for that 3%. Okay so it'll it'll depend on what the actual enrollment is minus the threshold based on if it's a low growth or a high growth school. Now, if we're at if we continue to have enrollment and it goes above 70%, that's okay because that's what we designed it to do. And if we have to add an FTE because we have too many students, then we can look to add additional intra district to kind of fill up that classroom for that FTE. Again, that gets into the finer science, but we will maximize the attendance or the enrollment at that school based on our number of FTEEs that were required. And then the threshold, we expect some of the schools to go over the threshold. That's by design. And then if there's some space in there, we're going to manage it down to the seat to make sure that we can do, you know, get the maximum number of kids in that school without exceeding the threshold, you know, with intra district employees. >> So low growth you said was 80. >> High growth you said 70. >> 70. So looking at the proposal then >> Cherry View, JFK, Lake View, and Orchard Lake would not be accepting any inner district. >> Unless we increase our FTEEs due to increased enrollment. Yes. >> Okay. Now if now of course the the enrollment the actual enrollment could drop you know for some reason and then obviously we would you know put folks kids in there. >> Can can we go back to the Mac or of Oakills? Are you guys aligned that Oak Hills cuts halfway into Cherry View and so on the north on the north of Cherry View like they're all going to Oills and then the left side of Oakills has always been on Oak Hills now they're going to Christina Huddleston. Like are we you guys want to make that change? I don't want to make that change. >> Can you show me what he's talking about? >> What's the rationale for that? >> Well, I guess I'd like to know the rationale. Why are we making the change? >> Right. >> That looks like >> So, if you go back to the previous model, so that's a current model today. How there's a cut line off of IPA >> all the way to the left >> for Oak Hills. >> Mhm. >> And then there's this massive forest. Well, not a a forest, but there's a >> preserve by Oak Hills. But the new design like we're going right across cherrywoods and shady oak show shore. So I'm just looking to understand >> why are you why are you just making a cut somewhere in the middle? >> So coming coming back to the answer to the other question. It was a matter of increasing the enrollment to meet the target at Oak Hills and decreasing the enrollment at Cherry View to be able to absorb the students in the uh just south of Dodd there but north of High View um >> for Voyager. >> I'm anticipating Voyager to increase Glacier and Voyager Avenue or growth. >> Let's see. We've got the system being slow. The Hidden Creek, uh, Havana, Hawkville. I'm not getting the development name in there at the moment. Sorry. >> Was that an area where in the last move some of that area on the um east that Brian's talking about went to Cherry View? And now like I'm looking at the area moves. It looks like >> you're talking just south of Dodd. >> Um in the red there kind of the outlined >> in the red >> south red area. >> It feels like a group went to Cherry View. Wade, you're in here. Maybe you know a group went to Cherry View from Oills and then now they're going back to Oills and we're taking out a different chunk that currently are Oills and putting them at Christina. So, a good chunk of those would be returning to Oak Hills. >> So, is there a reason like those two groups were swapped basically? Is that kind of your question? >> Well, yeah. I mean, the left side were they're going to Oak Hills. I mean, they're going to Christina and just Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess how many students are in that lower section that the new addition to Oak Hills? I mean, how many students is that? And then how many students are on the left side that were taken off? I I guess what I'm trying to get to is that the the more consistency or like the most least amount of change that we can make, if it makes sense to to still keep that oak hills at a maximized number, the better or we making changes just to make changes. I I I don't know. >> We're not making changes to make changes. We never make changes to make changes. is a very deliberate process >> because a proposal gets you at 656 students in cherry review. So you're and if you've got >> if your target is 85% right if that's what you're trying to get to >> 80% >> 80% 925 >> 740 so you can add about 100 kids is what we're proposing for Cherry View. So that you're anticipating about 100 extra kids for growth. >> And the southeast corner y >> that I believe you were referencing. Yes. Of the proposal there for Oak Hills has 98 students >> for students. Yeah. Yep. That makes sense because they've got about Yeah. I'm using a 1.5 for each home. Okay. >> But can we get there? Can we get there in a different way? Brian, can I ask you a question first? Yeah. >> So, >> I hear what you're saying about you're interested in delaying kind of basically a version of E1 till next year. Some some new plan, right? >> Yes, >> there isn't a new plan. >> And the reason is that you're thinking it would give us a year of new growth to see what happens, but also minimize one year of multiple movers. >> Yes. Um I think my only like my thought about that um regarding the multiple movers because that that was my goal too. I didn't want to move kids again. And looking at that almost all of them are at high view. They're going to be multiple movers really no matter if we make a decision now or or later. >> Um >> well for the second grade well yes and no. I mean, if you're moving from East View, so if you're in third grade, you're multiple mover. You move to High View, fourth grade, fifth grade, you're done. >> Second grade, right? You move to, you know, third grade, fourth grade, and then fifth, and it's going to be your first graders, second and third, >> fourth, and then they'd have to move to fifth grade. So, eventually someone would get >> someone would get, you know, upset. >> But you're lowering the number of population that gets multiple movers. And and there isn't when you look at the when when you look at the attendance areas for all of our schools. Yes, some of them are at a lower number. I I get that. But there there isn't a drastic need to do this massive change in my mind right away. Now 85% for high view it. Yeah. It's better than it's better than 105, right? and we at at uh Cherry View we've had >> but I think if you do that it's just going to like become this you move it to 85 this year you're going to have to move it again next year meanwhile new builds are happening [snorts] so like it's just going to be this like constant >> we're creating multiple movers >> but we're moving one more time the next time so I'm not asking us to move like every year >> it's just more of >> do a small change now to fix the immediate need and then do the massive change the following year where the community members, parents, students have had at least three years in their existing building before changing them versus just being there for two years and now you're going wherever we end up putting you at. the I'd say I'd say the downside about that is is that uh at this point next year when you're going over all these boundaries decision um all the emails that we've gotten from the last you know two months um all the parents are going to be angry that we're changing change the boundaries again um there's a level of boundary fatigue where just what are you guys doing you you did it two years ago you did it a year ago now >> people are moving >> I would submit I would submit if I may >> that the community is is currently inboundary fatigue. >> Yeah, >> I just want to say that out loud. >> Yes. >> But the people that we're getting emails for are the people doing all of this change, the people that we would be getting emails would be for these the small population right now. And so we we tell the parents for all those that may be impacted in any capacity, hang tight. Don't worry about it. Stay in your place for another year. So you have a total of three years versus two. Uh but know that after the third year we have to make a change across the board. >> But I but I think you're not you're only you're only thinking about the impact on the movers. You're not thinking about the impact within the buildings being over capacity still because it's not optimal learning environments in those spaces when we can't even use like we're we're out of classroom space. Like we're in the art room, we're in the gym, we're in all these different spaces. So there's there's an impact to students there too. It's not just moving that's an impact. It's being in these spaces that can accommodate the growth right now. That's an impact as well. So instead of us alleviating one of the impacts to student like the desired daily student experience, we're just delaying it and now we're spreading it over here to this building. So now we have two buildings with impact not only in the classroom because we're out of classroom space and now we have movers as well when we could at least like I get it moving's bad right it's hard but then at least we take care of the impact as far as not having the alultimal learning spaces like then that's just off the table that's not a concern anymore so we're not alleviating any concerns by your plan except for just delaying them and then causing more >> causing more would what we're doing right now. I mean, that's that's what we're going to do. >> We're not solving any problems by doing that. >> We're solving the immediate need. We just over capacity at >> 105 capacity. >> 85% is still over. >> That is a arbitrary number because we shouldn't even be at 105 in the first place. >> Right. Why aren't we just taking care of >> Here's what I'm wondering. Can I jump in? Sorry. Because I don't know if I don't know if you're going to agree. >> We're not going to agree. [laughter] So, but no. Um >> Tony, what are you thinking? because we're not going to go down an inter path and then then I'll rest my case. You guys share, you know, my point of view. >> Yeah. >> And then let's make a change to >> Well, can I jump in my because I it's 529 and we don't have to stop right at 5:30, but I think if there So, we're going to talk about this obviously again on Tuesday um with the full board and but we pro we will not have the capability most likely to be able to manipulate like this, right? Um, and so if there are things where you look at the map and you say, "I'm curious about how many are here or what would this look like in terms of manipulating the data or the map, I think getting those questions to either me or Michael um, you know, by Monday." Um, so that we can have answers to those. I don't think I don't think we we should be putting you all on the spot um, in that moment at that board meeting. Um, not having the the technology available at that moment. and if there are other things board members need to know in order to make an informed decision to either send that to Michael um or me and I think be ready to move towards a decision. I think we have heard, I have heard from the superintendent, from HR, from building principles, we need to make a decision for staffing. Um, and if we don't, um, we will get get ourselves in trouble in terms of hiring, um, moving teachers to be ready for next year. And so, we need to be in alignment with that with our administration to make sure that, um, we can set up the scenario the best for kids that we can. Um, even though and I think I think people have said this at the end of the day like some kids are going to have to move and that is not a great it it's not it doesn't make me feel good to make that decision. Um, and you know if we could wave a magic wand and something happened years ago when many of us weren't even on the board maybe you know but we can't we can't do that and I think um we're in this situation now and we need to solve it. Um, and the goal I think that we've given the district has been um, long-term growth. And I think it's I I >> I rather have a new new criteria is make it geolog geographically logical period. >> So I think we ran many many scenarios with different lines drawn in places, right? And none of them have materialized, right? We can't just rely on geographics because of the other the other factors considering demographics. >> There are no statute. There's no statutes that says it has to be that way. >> If you make our schools not racially balanced, yes, there is laws against that because then now you're segregating a population in send me that when you're ready. So, I think the other thing, Brian, I'll just say with that, and I I I do think our schools will, even with the new plan, are not going to be balanced in terms of e and um uh free and reduced lunch students. There's [snorts] I mean, in the free and reduced lunch, we're ranging from 11 to almost 28%. That's a that's a pretty big range. And so regardless, we're going to have to think about given the demographics of our schools, what are the resources that we need to put in place to help students succeed there. >> Totally agree. >> And when we're holding, you know, and I agree with the academic metrics and and trying and trying to get our district to achieve those, in order to do that, schools are going to need to be resourced differently. >> Yes. Um, and so I I think we already have pretty dramatic um, disparities amongst the schools with this plan. I think I'd like to see a geographical uh logical banner because I I get I I agree that the demographics will change but from a centers of excellence concept you can leverage if you got a high population in there that has an XYZ demographics we can have dedicated resources 100% to target whatever you know we need to from a skill set there versus having one in every single building just because >> I no I I don't think that I don't think that is the model right now And I I don't I hope that's not the plan going forward. And I think if you look at those demographics, we're already creating what you're saying in a way. Like there's going to be three or four of our schools that have a pretty dramatic um free and reduced lunch rate compared to others. Same with e. And so we're going to have English language. So we're going to have to I'm not saying that for you, I'm saying that for the audience. We're going to have to figure out how our schools are staffed to appropriately work and support the students that are enrolled there. So, um, differently than we are now. >> Yeah, Douglas, if I may, if geography is one of them, I need specific definition of what geography means. Don't cross a major road. Well, what's a major road? Is it a county road? Is it a something over 45 miles hour? I need specific definitions of what that is. Otherwise, everybody's going to have a different opinion of what geography means. >> Yeah. >> I don't think we move forward with a plan to to change anything unless we have a majority that agrees on it. >> Yeah. I mean right now from who is here I think the will of the board is to continue with an E1 plan but I think in between now and next Tuesday if there are suggestions or questions from board members that they need to get those in advance to be able to have further discussion and I mean it'd be helpful when all seven of us are able to be part of this >> and it would al be helpful to just have a transition plan >> basically you know described and uh laid out for the uh the board as far as um priorities, the number of people impacted um you know double mover movers by grade particularly with High View as far as like if they if we do Grandfather in how many people would actually stay there and how how long would it how long would it take them to alleviate the >> Yeah. >> over capacity. >> I like that. >> Yeah. Would that be possible to like get a feel for like if you let the current fifth grader stay, then you let the current fourth grader stay, how long until we're in a bind, >> we're not concerned about the current fifth graders, right? >> We're concerned about the fourth grade fourth graders. Right. >> And just kind of what a transition plan would y >> which by the way that is the largest elementary class we have at the moment. >> Yeah. Which >> 132. And then consider with with that that if you allow the fourth going into fifth to stay, what about their younger siblings? >> Correct. Yeah. >> Then we we haven't even talked about >> do both. I can tell you that we we would not be able to do both. >> And both articulate it again. >> Fourth going into fifth >> and siblings. Hey, can I can we So, obviously my proposal here this is much because now you're going to two different schools. >> Yeah. >> Well, potentially >> Yeah. >> Go ahead. >> Can I ask about like like view uh I know that E1 has it projected to be at about 80% and you have the capacity to just add 29 kids and then you're at >> capacity >> capacity is what I'm hearing. Uh but a Lake View currently is zoned to have 566 kids. It's going to go all the way to the west. Um there is how many kids do you have anticipated joining uh that area because I know over by the movie because does the movie theater area include Lake View? Are they part of Lake View or are they part of Lake Marian? >> Are you referring to the Ritter Farm? >> Yep. Let me double check and make sure I don't give any incorrect information >> because I've got like for for whatever reason my estimates have us sitting at about 118 additional kids to be added plus you've got the ranch area that would be add another 21 kids. Yellowstone has about 55. My concern is that in the next year or for long-term growth you've got 200 kids that might be coming out of that pocket. And so is uh >> that that currently and in the proposed model is Lake Mary >> is you have them going to Lake Mary >> Lake Mary. >> So so get 102 available including the growth that you're anticipating. So I just so the so I want to make sure I understand >> add into that that lake Marian is actually on the decline side under the current model. they are declining and under the proposed model until those developments come online and start producing families and students. >> Yeah, >> it's on the decline side. >> Got it. >> And we are banking on the decline to make further room for Ritter Farm and and any other developments out on the Credit River side. >> But that includes but you're going to have Barry's Baris and Amelia in Lake Marian as well. Correct. Is that in the in that your design model? Baris Ridge is currently in Lake Marian. >> Got it. And then Cedar and Kayla Crossing. I mean, you've got a ton of kids that will be growing in that pocket. And so, I guess my biggest concern is like, is that do we have enough capacity? The whole west side of Lake Marian, is that enough space? Do we even have enough? I don't know. I don't I think I think you're we're I think Lake Marian's going to be in a tight spot. >> I think >> depending on how that rolls out. Yes. >> Yeah. And long term, I mean, is this where facilities planning comes into play? >> Right. >> Right. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um, so are of the four of us that are here still, are you comfortable if you have additional questions or um concerns, you can send them to Michael and he can triage them or group them as necessary so that we can have further conversation. >> Yeah. >> Can Can we make sure we have them by Monday morning? Yep. Be welcome, Lucas. >> 6:00 a.m. Monday morning. >> No, send them Sunday night by midnight so that they're in the [clears throat] inbox. Um, okay. With that, um, we don't need to vote, but I'll adjourn, um, the meeting at 5:39. Sorry, I went a little over. >> Oh, you you want to talk about middle school? Are we are we done? >> Oh, >> I mean, we got them here. >> I think we can say middle school on tonight or do you want to do middle school tonight? >> I thought we were aligned. middle school one is is all that is uh on the >> docket. We think >> we think I'll say I know that M2 we have to do some refinement too. >> Uh I think among the leadership of the district we've come to come to that uh issue. Um but if you want to talk about M1 uh >> sure >> I'll be presenting M2 at Tuesday. >> No no sorry >> we'll talk. Yeah I I mean M2 is not presented for decision. >> Yeah. >> Oh I see. Yeah. Sorry. I think the question that I have is that right right now in the current interactive map there is a top right hand side of Maguire right and then the the future design is to move them all to Kenwood right is what I'm hearing is what is what I'm seeing. So, can I ask you a question before we launch into like the actual lines? >> Uh, maybe we >> And that is just like No, no, it's >> Do you like that the that the middle school lines align with the high school lines? >> Oh, I wasn't even looking at that. >> Like I think that's like I looked at the current high school map and tried to overlay it and it looks like it mirrors and I think for me that's the most important thing >> with Kenwood splitting. Yes. >> With the Kenwood still split, right? Of course. I think it's 7030. Is that right? >> Under the proposal, it' be 7535. >> I think the only concern we had at the middle school was the small percentage of kids that were going to Maguire. >> It's on the top right. >> From Queen. >> Yes. >> Wait, why would they be going to McGuire? [snorts] >> Because you got that cut. >> Yeah. >> Just I'm I mean I'm fine with buildings that are split. I think it's I agree with director Cameron that it helps if there are a larger percentage of students moving with them so they're not one of I mean five kids that move to Magguire in that you know what I mean in that building >> could is there a way that um uh would it make more sense for Kenwood to go further east to pick up more kids versus having Well, you know, because you need you need the extra 50 kids from to go to Meguire and you got to get them out of somewhere. >> Correct. >> What is the problem you're trying to solve? >> I'm curious. >> Oh, >> because we're just we're talking about the one group of kids. >> I don't want people driving all the way I don't want people having to drive all the way down because that doesn't make sense. That's all. Like >> they do that for the high school. >> Yeah, they do that for the high school. The kids that are farthest north in our district go to South High School. >> This is true. >> Like, >> oh, I have I'm not looking at the high school map. I'm sorry, but here. >> Yeah, that same neighborhood goes to South. Yes. >> South. >> So, it's Magguire's still further, but still I understand. >> Are you okay with that? >> You know what? Probably not, but it's all right. I [laughter] Let me I'll let me do some more reading. It is what it is. I'll send a note to whoever to to the team by Monday and um well >> I mean I appreciate you saying the drive times I I do >> for me the priority is kids stay together their peers and so >> well if that's the case then you use the same concept for elementary >> yeah no I I'm just talking about middle school fair but >> okay Tony Kim anything else to add about middle school for the M1 model >> we're not making decision about the other one Um, I'm fine with it. >> Cool. >> Okay, with that. Okay, now we're officially adjourning. Sorry. 5:43. Thanks everybody. Have a good weekend. >> Um, do you have something where you're keeping track of that for Kim? >> Okay.