Welcome everyone to thisApril 184 School District work session on June 9th at 6:00 p.m. and we aregetting started here. I'm going to do a roll call starting with my left andgoing around. >> Bill Holmgren>> Kim Baker >> Michael Bowman>> Matt Swanson >> Carly Anderson>> Brenda Albrecht >> Michelle Humphrey>> Brian Thompson >> Emily McDonald>> Paul Carbone >> Tracy Vold>> Joe Berquist guest >> Thanks and Amber CameronWith that we'll get started. Thank you Joe for being here tonight todiscuss the arenas annual report and budget. I'll turn over to you. Is thatokay? >> Okay.It's been another really good year. I don't know if you have your slideshowup with you or and I'll just kind of walk through someof the highlights of the year. We had a record year in ice sales.We hit we actually doubled our revenue since I started in 2020 since our highin 2019. We hit our double this year going into this year. So excited aboutthat. First thing I like to just point out foranybody that's new is we are a joint powers agreement between the schooldistrict and the city. So we are a separate entity and I report to Michaeland a few other board members and Carly. Umbut we are we do not use any public funds to operate. It's all paid forthrough what we revenue that we generate. Sowe are very proud that we have never dipped into any public funds to operatein the 16-17 year existence of Lakeville Arenas andI think that's a attributed to the past managers and boththe school board and and city. So UmWe we had our first full year of thepavilion the new pavilion rink outside and with some improvements I'll talkabout on that. We had another record year of ice hours sold. We had over6,600 sold. We had Maggie Flaherty, aLakeville resident, that won the uh, Walter Cup two years in a runningwith the, uh, women's hockey team. Uh, we launched itinaugural hockey camp mini mini mite hockey camps in 2005 as we started intoour programming. We hosted our first figure skatingcompetition event, which was brand new. Um,and our learn to skate again became a record record attendance. So, our icehours I mentioned are up 549, which is in new programs and tournamentsand off-season programs since we expanded the ice arenas to 24/7three all 12 months a year. Uh, we used to operate much less.Um, LHA bought quite a bit more ice because of the pavilion rink.Adult hockey hours are up 132 hours last year.And our pick up ice sales are up 45 hours. So,again, we're growing in every aspect. Um, our mite leagues, our skillscompetition, and I'm excited about some of the new things we're launching thisyear, which I'll talk about a little bit later.Highlights again, Lakeville Hockey Day is always a very strong event. We hosteda Pee Wee tournament, a regional tournament in 2025, and a statetournament in 2026. So, that's in the world of hockey, that's a pretty bigdeal to land one of them. Um,we did host at the beginning of 2025, which I mentioned last year, we hostedthe US Hockey Hall of Fame game with the Minnesota Women's Gophers and the MijiState. Our,uh, Heritage Figure Skating Club continues to host an annual event, whichseems to get more popular every year. Um, so from that standpoint, an up- anupdate on the pavilion rink, which year two upgrades, we learned a lot our firstyear, especially with the wind and the sun. Uh, we had trouble making andkeeping ice in the beginning. Uh, so there's a picture you can see thenew sun screens installed. They'll be stretched this year, so it'll actuallyalmost look like walls. Um, but that's >> melt ice?>> Sun melts ice, more so than I thought. Our ice plant didn't quite cover it.>> paying attention to chemistry. >> [laughter]>> I was going to say, when that was first open, I had my one of my kids waspracticing on there and I put my snow pants [snorts] on and my jacket and justwalked around the rink cuz there was so much cold wind.>> It's cold. >> But this year we finally, you know, wegot all the locker rooms completed, the heaters in. We'll have the heaters overthe benches and so forth. And all this is upgrades that we're doing ourselvesin order to stretch our dollars. Um, so it'll be almost enclosed thisyear. Outside of some areas, but everybody didcomment that it was much warmer, or you know, much better this year than theopening year where it was completely wide open andit was difficult, which I knew the novelty of it was going to wear offafter a couple years, but it wore off right after the first year. So,and it's got footings in for permanent walls, so the sooner we get to thatworld, the better. But it's been actually, I'mvery excited about it cuz I think the off season, once we get the summerevents going in there, it's going to be a community asset, not just a hockeyasset. And with quinceanera, we already had aquinceanera in and we a lot of community type events. So, I'm excited about thatend of it. >> call those 15-year-old What is thatmean? >> [laughter] >> I'm sorry, I didn't see. I'm going deaf,actually. >> [laughter]>> I I assumed you were speaking Spanish, butI don't do that. >> You said quinceanera.>> [laughter] >> Yeah, quinceanera, that's all I know.>> 15-year-old birthday. >> Yeah.So, from a financial standpoint, we had another very good year. Like Imentioned, we were almost pretty much doubled going intothis year. We We were double. >> [snorts]>> Um we did hit We doum hit some roadblocks with electric is very obviously we have amended thebudget as is in the packet. I know a lot of notes on what we did to adjust thebudget. We're in good shape to meet, but umelectric and some of the utilities are way up and some other things, butwe're in in good standing, good position to adjust that.Um but as far as growing goes, I want topoint out a couple things on our revenue. We started diversifying revenuewhen I started 6 years ago or 5 years It's going to be 6 years already.Um and ice rental revenue right now is um one of our biggest growth, but ourprogramming has taken off this year. Um this is our second year of camps and wesaw an increase of 100 and over $100,000 just in our ice ca- Mike camp. We'relaunching a whole bunch of new That's what we hired a full-time programmingperson, so we will see our revenues the diversified revenues, which is ourlearn to skate program, our programming, which went up 26,000 last year orthis year it's going up or 67,000. Um it's going up on our probably be up$200,000 this year. So, uh and the reason I bring some ofthis up is it used to be seven probably 90% of our revenue came from just icerentals. Um and that was we sold ice and we skimmed by, but weice rentals are now only 72% um of our total revenue base. So,concessions, we had a record Well, we had aequal year in concessions. This is to the $1,000 a year. So, now we'rerevamping that and going to go after the half million mark.Um and I said we're Next year, we are launching all our new programs.Um so, we're excited about that. What I'm really excited about is welaunched a new umcommunity ice programs. So, I've kind of grown weary of We kind ofgot hit hard by the kids-for-profit groups that come in andmake a lot of money off the kids in the summer time. Um and a lot We had a lotof cancellations this year. Um which kind of hurt us. So, we arelaunching even more of our own. So, just for an example, for $750 a year,hockey players are going to get our breakfast club training. We'retaking over that, somebody that left. We're to you know, so that's all year tobefore school, before classes. That's a popular training program. We have ourmight leagues. Um We're going to be launching a falltraining program. Our open stick and puck, but that's allincluded in these new memberships. So, right and it's a value of probably about3,000 $3,600. If they were paying from the for-profitpeople. So, we're really excited about launching this for the community,especially with the way we think the economy's going right now as far asthose of us down below that we're feeling the crunch. So,um and we launched one for ice club memberships, which is for the figureskaters and so forth and people that just want to use the public ice.Um so, I think that's the most exciting thing about coming up next year. We'reanticipating some very large revenues from that in addition to that. So,I'm sorry I go off on the financials. That's my favorite part of this job. So,I apologize. I'm droning [clears throat] on and I know I've been told in thepast, you need to back off on that. Just hit the highlights. So, with that, I'mgoing to close and there's any questions or comments you'd like to share this thebudget is included what we're required to submit this to the school board andthe and the school district simply for comment. You don't have to vote orapprove anything. It's just any comments. If you don't have them now,you can provide them to me at another time and I take that back to our boardbefore we adopt the budget. So >> Yeah, Matt, random question. What wasthe construction between Hasse and the pavilion?>> So we're putting in the dirt that's there piled up. We are in we're takingcontainers. We're going to put two of them togetheron one side and one on the other. So there's going to be a concession standthere with a container roof that we purchased that is just four containers.So we're going to have a concession stand there and that's really geared atthe summer events. And on the other side we're going to have a catering kitchenlike much like a park pavilion. So when it's rented for graduations and familyreunions, people can bring in their food and have a commercially licensed kitchenfor that. So and then we're doing the same off the back of it for a temporaryZamboni shed and storage area. So>> Awesome. Brian? >> Yeah, so uhgreat that it's being utilized more and more.Um I'm curious with the expansion. Has there has the backlog of customerswho are wanting to use it declined or has the backlog have has grown becausenow you've got this recognition, you've got two facilities, you have multiplefacilities XYZ. That's my first question. The second one is thatuh with expenditures going up uhit does look like you guys are increasing rates and and so I I guessI'm curious to know that are the rates going up because the utilities and allthe and that's the factor that's going up or are we looking at other ways tocut costs so that the rates stay stagnant while other costs go up so thatparents are well, we We these nice facilities is like every year theythey're going to pay more, but again it's a community facility. So like whatcan we do to lower the cost and and again staffing wise every year there's araise they get a raise they get a raise, but eventuallywe get we'll get to a point where there are economies of scale because we've gotthese multiple facilities where you can purchase more with a lower rate or alower cost and then how do those savings get passed toyou know participants. So again you've got a backlog I'm sorry is therea backlog and then two uh3.75% rate, but like what do we what do you do what do you guys do about thatfor next year because again as as a Lakeville community member every year II I might complain I don't have a hockey player, but like I might complain ratesare going up again rates are going up again. I thought this was supposed to beyou know less expensive. >> Yeah. Um so to address well hockey isnever expensive. [laughter] But um to address the first one pardon?>> Did you say never expensive? >> Never[laughter] >> I said it's not less expensive.>> Okay so um the first one as far as a backlog thereis as far as demand goes during the winter season the demand is for instanceit's getting stronger. LHA is adding I believe five teams atthe squirt level this year which is a huge jump which also meansthe might levels are going to follow that and probably increase as well sodemand during the summer or winter they're actually purchasing more hoursthis year. Um that's going to continue to growI think for the foreseeable future depending on how the economy goes. Ithink it's some of the extra spending like I mentioned that willmaybe decrease which is my off season which is another reason for us gettingin the program to backfill that preparing for a decline in themcustomers. Um because in summer time it's verycompetitive out there and they're out pricing everybody trying to lowball thearenas against each other for tournaments and so forth so by runningour own we actually we gained some profit on top ofprofit we would have had. And that's really what's funding themajority of our expansion is our summer time ice time.Um From a cost standpoint, interestinglyenough, we had been holding and my goal had been to hold our ratesum at a>> [cough and clears throat] >> much lower rate than we had been holdingthem until last year when um LHA asked us to actually raise them>> [cough] >> and [clears throat] instead ofproviding a large contribution to help us finish thepavilion rink. Umthe tarps and so forth and the warming houses and all the amenities that were[clears throat] not part of the original budget. So, they actually requested thatwe just increase the rates by $30 an hour to payfor all that to help with that. Um but the board at the time we decided only togo 20 and then wait till this year to doanother 10. So, right now that 10% I believe is a 3.5% increase in the rates.Um expensesyou know, we're obviously in a growth mode right now with the pro We have alot more potential out there. So, in the near future, the next few yearsI don't see that us hitting that wall for quite some time.Unless everything totally bottoms out. >> I mean, hockey cannot be evenpeople might like oh, hockey's not cool. Let's go play baseball instead.>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um maybe not. I'm just kidding.>> [laughter] >> So, I know for for for our schooldistrict we have different tiers in our facility fees. And so it does Do you Doyou guys offer something Do you do something com- com->> We We>> We have just a a standard price um standard winter ratewith an after 10:00 p.m. rate. Um so, there's that's the tier that we go to.Um or during school days in the morning. So, it's a cheaper rate there likethat's where a lot of groups >> When I say tier, weif you are >> a resident>> resident you get a lower discount and then if you're like a a for profit it'sa >> It's classification.>> classification >> Yeah.>> [cough] >> We do not do that. Um that's prettyThere are a few generally you see that in the public arenas whenthere's some funding being provided. Um but ultimately we rely on just as heavyyou know our agreement with Lakeville is >> [cough]>> charge anyone more than you. Um and one of the things I did a fewyears ago was I instituted a fee schedule which never used to exist.>> Yeah. >> Um cuz there used to be a lot ofbargaining and negotiating that I just wasn't comfortable with. I thinkeverybody needs to pay an approved rate anduh so there's there's a summer rate and there's awinter rate and they're prime and everybody pays the same.>> Yeah and and I'm not on the board but I would assume or I would I would ask thatum if I'm a Lakeville community memberideally I would like to be able to pay a discount or a rate lower than someonefrom Apple Valley coming into my place. And if I've got another association orhockey association wanting to use Lakeville facilitiesuh I wouldn't want them to be able to take my spotand and pay the exact same rate that I would pay at a different you know cuzcuz I'm I live here you know and my taxpayer [clears throat] dollarscontribute to this and the people in our community fund the revenue and theexpenditures. So similar to what we do at our district, if you are anassociation or organization not in our community, you pay a a higher fee. Now Idon't know what the percentage is maybe it's like 10% or like a 15% bill tax Idon't know but >> What we what we tend to do is we have wepro we give priority to residents in Lakeville.>> Yeah but but no cost savings to the residents.>> No there's no cost savings. I mean really realistically arenas are based onit's prime season 24/7. >> Yep.>> Um and they buy 90% of the ice or have access to 90%. So that's really whatpays our bills year round. My goal has been to lower the rates to the summerrentals and maximizing >> Yep.>> off the for-profit and we were definitely on that path.>> Mhm. >> butyou know, it comes down to paying them bills year round andso >> And and and our residents are the onesthat generally cover all all of that. >> I mean>> Uh like like LHA right now which is your basically residents are down. It used tobe they were probably funding about 80-90%um I have that down now to they're probably I think the last time I ran thenumbers on it was down in the 60%.>> Okay. >> Um so we're making headway onnon-resident paying their paying [clears throat]their share fair share. >> question because we're the the schooldistrict, right? And so I love LHA. I know you're members. Um but that's notunder our purview, right? That's more of a Soto help me understand, obviously our high school teams are using the ice,correct? How does that work? Are we paying a fee to use the ice?>> same ice rental fee. >> Okay. And that's our primaryrelationship. >> Yep.>> Okay. >> I don't have to pay that fee.>> I mean, let me phrase it >> for-profit model.>> I understand, but I think I mean, if we're going to be a part of this, Imean, I I think that our our district, our students should beable to get a discount or should have a lesser fee than someone else fromanother community from another district. That that's all I'm saying. Like thatthat's my point of view on that one. >> But George, what I'm hearing you say isthey're not There's really no other users during the winter now and werewrote the policy for LHA because it used to beLHA got this many hours. Then they would jump High school alwaysgets their hours first. Then we jump to LHA. Then we would gothrough because of the Rosemount or neighboring communities aresome of them are part of, so it's based on their student base. Our part ofLakeville are residents. So then we give some to Farmington, someto Apple Valley, you know, so we'd have to go through a whole step.Which we we cut that out. We rewrote the policy so that LHA gets everything theywant first and the school district. So and it's been a little bit of grumblingin the other communities who well we have residents too.Um but the majority are well taken care of and are put on top of that.>> So the increase then also impacts I'm assuming our budget because or theschool district's budget. If you increase those rates then ourhockey team and anyone else who uses the ice, I meanwe're we're getting hit too. >> But the alternative would be having tobuild our own ice rink, right? So >> Well the alternative is ask the board atthe arenas to say hey, make sure our Lakevilleresidents [clears throat] are taken care of first and then youknow, jack up 5% for those that are not Lakeville residents. Very much to ourclassification model for our facility use. I mean we've got you know, Bill canyou do a quick half an hour minute half an hour like aparagraph overview like if you're a class two or a class can you define whata class one, two, and three is and because class three is paying way muchmore, right? Or >> Yeah,a class three is for profit. Okay, so they have a heart lot higher rate thanour non-profit people. And then then we have our booster clubs and our reallocal people. That's tier one and they have the lowest rate.And we have three tiers. >> Matt>> Isn't the increase didn't you just say it was like 3.5% for this year?>> Pardon? >> The increase is only like 3.5% on theseuser fees. >> And we budgeted 5% increases inall of our expenses, higher in >> [clears throat]>> electric and some of the ones we're concerned about. But because we're inthat growth mode, you know, we're able to fund it. But, some The day will comewhen we'll hit a wall and >> Yeah.>> Um >> Mhm.>> And I assume the Cuz I [clears throat] just have kid akid in mites, but as you get older, uh those parents are probably payinghigher fees to participate hockey. Even at the high school level?>> It's at 3.5. >> Not at the high>> Number stays at increase, yeah. >> Not at the high school level?>> It's when you're in the sports. >> Yeah. Cuz what is [clears throat] thepercentage of time used ice time used by the high school teams? >> I offhand I>> They're not necessarily affiliated with the school.>> I mean >> They're just the city.>> for like, for example, LHA, I like it. I don't think we could we should increaseyour rates. But, I'm just I'm just suggesting that if there areother avenues where we can distribute some of I mean, if the rate increase forour our community is, let's say, 1% and then it's 4 and 1/2% for everybody else.Like, hey, cool. That that's fine. I mean, I I'm notI I guess what I'm trying to get to is that if I'm a community member here,I should be able to say, "Hey, this is my community. This is my This is my icetime. This is our school district. Uh we'repaying taxpayer dollars are going to you anyway, so it's like, well, then let'sjust, you know,consider an alternative model." >> of that could be that the district andthe city don't overlap boundaries, right? So, I'm paying [clears throat]actually taxes to the Burnsville Ice Arena and to Hass or to the Lakevillearenas. So, I'm paying double. I should I could Right? So, I mean, Ithink this is just an easy arrangement to say, "We get first To have first dibsis really amazing." And that is a nominal increase.>> Well, but why can't we have it all? I mean, candidly, like, why not? I mean,if if we >> Well, I mean, the obvious thing is thatif you have it all, the improvement I mean,it's a very difficult business to keep afloat without tax dollars.>> Yeah. >> Andif everybody's I mean, I I There are not too many So,ice arenas that I'm aware of that give a special rate just because of the way thearena operates. You're so reliant on everybodyand the minute you start the non, whether it's a non-resident,whether it's an outside group, we're so reliant on them. They price us againstevery other arena. >> And so and that goes back to my firstquestion. What's the back back bar like? Is there a high demand for[clears throat] ice time? And and if theyif you raise your rates as an example, arethey going to go somewhere else? And if they go somewhere else, then they've gotto go find availability at that somewhere else, which they may not>> And in the nine months of the year, the availability is out there everywhere.So, most arenas, what they're doing is they're discounting the ice steeply toget that business in the off season and they're discounting it below what theresidents are paying. >> Has the Carly has the board or Michaelyou go to ever discussed like the arrangement or peoplefeel good about the financial >> I am very proud ofwhere the in terms of the journey of ours. I think something we talked aboutin the meeting this past week when we were looking at this isthe fact that this is a successful partnership with the city and we'reabove the bar here is something I mean, Joe I only heard you compliment previousmanagers, but you've done an amazing job in terms [clears throat] ofgrowing um, this organization and being able to like you said, diversify andrecruit my children to buy all your sessions. Um, so it's been a it's been asituation of positivity. So, while I think we I mean, I'm not opposed tonecessarily at our next board meeting exploring what that might look likebecause it's not just us too, it's the city that would have an opinion aboutit. We could certainly talk about it, but it hasn't been something that we I IJoe's made a good point is we're not in a situation where we canum really get like we're taxing other people more um because then they justwon't come. They'll find another arena to go to.>> Which will cause me to raise rates on the revenues. Fair.>> [laughter] >> So it yeah.>> It It's a balancing act. It really is. It's It's no great solution other thanin my world, I try to diversify as much as I can and make sure I take advantageof the opportunities to hit the for-profits as best I can. So, you know,ultimately I don't want to raise rates andyou know, outside of being able to finish the facilities,um that was a joint, you know, agreement that LHA approved andyou know, they recommended that that be done in order to meet the shortfalls.And then we actually did increase the summer ice residents more thanI think we had a $30 increase to them versus a $20 increaseto the school. >> LHAIsn't I mean, I feel like correct me if I'm wrong, Joe, but LHA is also tryingto balance things in terms of fees for hockey with regard tolike the gambling stuff the the money that they're getting fromthat stuff pull tabs, sorry. Umto offset some of the costs because we know that hockey is a very expensivesport trying to make it more affordable. Umso if there's some of those offsets that families in different arenas have.>> And one of the issues like when I came on board, I know the facilities were inpretty rough shape. And you know, there's a lot of expensein that we are trying to reinvest. So I mean, while we haven't beentrimming rates as much as I would like, we havebeen investing heavily into repair maintenance andadding all you know, giving paint jobs to facilities so north and south feellike it's a home instead of the grays. And we're in the We're really investinga lot of money right now, just reinvesting it into the the facilities.You know, so that's another part of the balance is we don't have any tax fundingfor our operating, so we It's not as, you know,>> But it seems like an increase that's pretty parallel to inflation. Shouldn'tbe a huge surprise to anyone, right? If we're increasing by 10% or somethingreally high, this is kind of just your average>> And in the fee schedule, I always provide the localWe [clears throat] are in that average and we jumped up. I was trying to get usdown at the bottom, but we do I definitely try to keep, you know, ourfees as low as we can. >> Yeah. Brian, did you have a question?>> Yeah, of the 2.1 million dollars that that was earned, how much did the schooldistrict pay for that last year? >> I believe, well,how many hours school district buys about 200 hoursUm at 280 dollars an hour, so whatever themath is on that quickly. So they got that.>> 200 hours >> 56,000.>> How much? >> Approximately 56,000.>> What do you mean 400>> Oh, wait. 400 Wait, you said 200 hours? >> 200 hours>> at 280 an hour? >> 280 an hour.>> So 56,000. >> That's what I got. 56, right? So we'regood? >> All right.>> I said So that's not >> Maybe I'm Maybe it's 200 per schoolthen. >> It's 200 per school.>> Yeah, that could be it. >> 100,000.>> Budget's about 200. >> So we So we spend about 10%.So 10% of the revenue comes from us. >> 10 to 20, I would say in that way. Yeah.I I Sorry, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but>> LHA is the big >> LHA is the majority.>> Okay. >> I mean, they're they're really thereason the facility exists, so. >> Yeah.So we're looking at like a 7,000 range, which is fine. I mean, I'm not going tosay which is fine, but it's Yeah. We're spending I mean, we're contributing 10%,um but more importantly, uhthe school district gets first dibs, and then>> Yeah, I mean, that's >> Polytech gets second dibs, and theneverybody else gets the rest. >> Yep.>> Yeah. Any other questions?All right, thanks for coming. >> I just want to say great job, Joe. Theboard was universally thrilled. This is >> Thank you.>> Thanks for coming. >> Thanks.>> Thanks, Joe. >> Yep.>> All right, with that, I'm going to turn over to Mr. Holmgren to discuss uh theintent to sell bonds. >> I wanted to take just a few minutes totalk about this resolution that'll come to you at the next uh board meeting.Um I also have um Shelbyhere sitting back from Ehlers in case you have any other questions.But, as you know, a few weeks ago, we passed a new bond referendum to do theadditions to the uh middle schools.Um so, now this will be our first borrowing, as we talked about, insteadof just going out there and borrowing the whole 100139.6 million at once, and then paying interest and all that, we will we'lltier it up. We'll borrow multiple times to save some interest costs. So, thiswill be our first borrowing here in September.Okay. So, this is what this is It's It's uh putting in place to say uh It'sstarting everything the wheels in motion to have the sale on the bonds. You lookon page two at theat the top, you see we have hereum setting up to sell $70 million.There's just There's a second piece to this umresolution, which helps us It's number seven on page three,and you'll see there it says reimbursement from bond proceeds. So, ifwe get any type of billings from the architect or from the CM herein the next couple months that we need to pay, we can go ahead and pay that andthen we reimburse the the general fund when we sell these bonds.Uh so that's that's also what this resolution is doing for us. I want youto be aware of it so when it comes when it comes to you in 2 weeks, we[snorts] need you to pass this and put it in motionuh so we get a sale ready for September. >> So I I don't want to be like too gambly,but like could we could we get the full amountand then invest it for the next 2 and 1/2 years?>> Well, there's a thing called arbitrage. Okay. So if we make more money ininterest than we pay, we get to give it to the IRS, 100%.>> So the answer is we don't want to do that. Right. But but if we make more,does that mean we can do better improvements?>> No, if if we if we make more, we give it to the IRS.It's it's it's that simple. >> Okay. The answer is no. Thank you forthat. >> [laughter]>> I'm like the >> hockey rink. We can't make a profit.>> Go ahead, Matt. >> So um what are the the transaction costson each each time we go to do a bond sale? Cuz it's what, 50 50 39? Is kindof we're thinking three sales? >> I I actually will defer to to Shelby.She got those numbers. Is there a flat fee for each time we sell bonds? So ifwe do multiple sales, we'd have more cost?>> Uh yes, that is true. >> Shelby, you're going to need to come upto >> Yeah, do you want to come up to thetable? Good to have you as a guest. I was just going to pull up thefacilities maintenance bond that we did most recently for an example, eventhough that's different. So there is um sort of tiered pricing that goes alongwith each um uhissue. So you have the rating fee, you have our fee, you have the bond fee, andthen you have some um general uh county fees. And so if If think of the $20 bondthat we um issued uh uhrecently, I guess my data on that.Um that total fee was um 133,000. So, there is someadditional costs associated with it, but when you talk about sort of a 5%interest rate on 139 million, you're more than making up for that in terms ofhow much additional you can um save in terms of levy dollars.>> Yeah, and I guess cuz [clears throat] that was my nextquestion um depending on the cost, umdo we save more on those the interest costs by splitting it up into more thanthree? Cuz how how quickly are we going to need$50 million? And I guess even with a $139 millionpackage that we're looking at, doesn't that provide us some leverage to workwith our contractors and say, "Hey, you can waiton some of these things?" I mean, I understand materials will have to bepurchased, but not right away, right? >> Well, most probably the contractors arenot going to wait for the money, okay? We're going to pay as they do theproject. So, as [clears throat] they incur costs, they bill us. I mean, theydon't bill us for the whole thing, they just as they incur costs, we get we getbilled. And as of right now, we're starting already, you know, the thearchitects in full steam ahead motion and our CM is in in motion, too. So,looking ahead starting about next month, we'll incur start incurring about $2million on a monthly basis just in those soft costs until we get ready to toactually do the bidding when it comes to, you know, latewinter. >> Yeah, and I guess my con- my concernwould be if we have $30 million sitting in the bank,right, for several months. >> We're going to be paying something.>> We're paying interest on that, and maybe there's a a negative side of doing sixsales instead of three. >> Mhm.So, initially we had this set up as two bond sales. And so, since then we'vegotten updated draft schedules from the construction firm, which makes it looklike we could probably split it into three issues. And along with the youcan't earn more than you um uh than youthan it cost you in interest, if you hit certain spend downsaccording to what the IRS dictates, then you have some flexibility in ingenerating that additional interest. So, there is some flexibility in that youcould earn a little bit more than you borrowed for if you follow certain spenddowns. So, basically we've set this up so that we're attempting to sell a bondto coordinate with the spend down schedules associatedUm [snorts] and then, you know, you have other things going on at thesame time, right? So, you have facilities maintenance bonds that arebeing issued every other year. You have refundings that are on the radar. Um andso, the potential to overlap some of these umsecond and third and potentially a fourth bond, you know, if we just dragit out a little bit more and get you the last little bit umyou know, closer to when you actually start to close up the project, then yougenerate the cost efficiencies on on a on an LTFM bond, for instance, that youwouldn't have before. Um so, I mean, there is a reason why youpassed in May and we're not issuing today, right? Because you can cash flowsome of this out of the construction fund and you're not sitting on monthlyinterest for 4 months before you, you know, we actually need the money. And,you know, summer may look a little different,right? You if if things look a little different, we're not going to say youhave to have your money by, you know, October 15th. We have we haveflexibility there, but part of what we do todayum and setting this up for your authorization at the end of June is toidentify to MDE what needs to get levied. So, that really I would saynothing but that levee is set in stone >> [laughter]>> um to start. We're going to you know as we're going to get updates from theconstruction schedule. You're going to earn interest. Maybe that allows us tosell a little bit differently, you know, wait another month um before we sell. Wealso authorized for 70 million, but um you know, I've we've Beth and I have runnumbers at 60 at 65 just to but whatever we sell today or you know, right awaydictates then how quickly you need the money on the second go-round. So, all ofthose things factor in. >> Then like but if we've got like how muchdo we have in the bank? 15? 12? How much do we have in our>> Oh, just in the bank by itself? >> For yeah, I mean for our unassigned fundbalance or >> Our our our general fund's running closeto 25 million dollars. >> Likecan we use that in >> Yeah, that's what that's what that'sthat's all our purpose. So, we can use that money temporarily until we do thesale and then we'll reimburse the general fundum with those funds. >> Question>> need >> How far do you want to go? How far doyou want to use it? Like 5 million or down to like>> I I think we're looking at 5 6 million by the time we get the cash, yeah. >> Okay.>> Okay. >> And then how soon do we get the moneyonce we I mean cuz you have to get the approval and we do get Do we like saywhen we activate it, funds are in our account like the next day?>> about a month. >> A month?>> Yeah, we're going to do um if we kind of lay this out, it would be um we presentpre-sale or give you pre-sale estimates at the August meeting. We'd sell andyou'd award at the September meeting. You'd have funds available on October15th. So, we're a little bit bound by you know, the schedule of yourauthorization to to stay at a on the cadence of your schedule, but you know,so if you don't get it on the 15th, we'd have to wait till like mid-November andmaybe that's too long. So, we have we havethat's a little I guess inflexibility there.>> As part of this, do you guys do like interest forecasting and thinking wherethe market's going to be or trying to figure that out.>> Yeah, um we we have sort of preliminary runs atthis point. Again, we're really looking at setting the levy incoordination with your LTFM plan to ensure that we hit the tax impactthat you presented to the voters. That's what we're doing right now.Um and then as we get closer to August when we're doing our sort of rateanalysis, that's where we'll start running it based on not just a rate butoverall market conditions. So, are you going to be generating another premium?To what extent is that? Where are the you know, where are the interest ratesgoing to be? And in some cases, because we are planning to issue this multipleum over multiple issuances, we've done different strategies overall of youknow, we think we really have a a big positive to make [clears throat] this 10years or we have a big positive make this 22 years. So that you know, when wecome back in a year and a half, we'll be only toyou know, we can plug in an 8-year bond, right? So, we're going to be doing allof that as we go. As we get closer.>> Do you also factor in like other schools that are selling bonds as far as youknow, competitive advantage and timing? >> Uh not>> [clears throat] >> hugely. There's 11 billion dollars of umin the markets each week of municipal [clears throat] debt. Um the way we haveit set up right now, um that August and September schedule isthe same day that Ossio would be selling their 62 million dollars of bonds. Idon't think it's really going to I think there's enough demand out there.So, I mean, I guess I'll put that out for you sinceyou asked that you know, maybe we want to move it, but 62 million and and 50 or80 or 70 million, um we've certainly sold more. So, it has todo with the block sizes, where the, you know,where the demand is, but >> When is Wayzata selling there?>> [laughter] >> Um, Wayzata is also selling right aroundthat time, but they're they're splitting up into multiple issuances as well.Um, well, I'll look it up. Let me see where we have that. Um, they they'll beselling ahead of you. They'll be selling a month ahead of you, I think.>> Is there value Is there value in paying things like ahead of time? Like at leastthe not the labor, but at least the materials. Cuz we if we get a bid back,they would probably know we're going to need XYZof this and that and that. And and I'm justI'm imagining if you're going to buy it a year from now, there might be a 3.6%increase. And so it was like does it make sense? And but but again, if youtake out the loan, you're paying interest on that for the duration ofthe by the time you need it or not. I don't know.>> It's kind of a trade-off, right? >> Yeah. You either pay more interest oryou get a better deal on the >> I'm not asking for financial advice, butI think there's a new Fed chairman. And so does that play a part in like what doyou think it's going to look like in November but you're justmoving to a different house and like >> [laughter] >> I would defer to your lawyer.>> [laughter] >> I can tell you what the taxes are goingto be. >> I have a a quick question. When will wewe as the board start to see the contracts or the proposed contracts forthe different, uh, subcontractors, contractors?>> Oh, you're going to you're going to see um, it it pretty much all come to you inone Well, we'll probably do it more than one package, butum, until we get the specifications written out, it it's going to be, youknow, like January, February before you see any type of bids come to you.>> Of next year? >> Yeah.>> So, then I guess >> [clears throat]>> So, what's going to be done between >> 50 million dollars.>> Natural stuff. >> UmThe architects don't work for free. Okay, yeah, our our I'm 50 million Ithink we're We might be running over.>> We we are looking at two to two and a half million dollars on a monthly basisfor all our soft costs in through this fall. Then when we then when we do thethe bidding Yeah, some of those some of thosecontractors are going to want money immediately to buy materials.Um so that money will go pretty quick as we get into the spring.>> [clears throat] >> I can say we don't know what thosenumbers are until we till we get there. >> So it seems like our calendar for thisproject is falling in line with other like projects for other school districtsor like we're not out of the norm in howwe're doing this in other words. >> We are in the norm, yeah.>> We're out of the norm? >> No, we are.>> We are in the norm. >> Yeah, I mean I I feel like I think Ihave to respect the expertise here in the room of like here's how you driveforward a project like this and I think the questions are good.Um I just don't think I know better. So I'mI'm looking I want to make sure that we're selectingyou and the right firms to make these decisions with us. I really want to relyon your expertise. >> Yeah, andthank you I guess ahead of time for the flexibility because if we do, you know,have conversations in your fund balance I mean right about that time whereyou'll have preliminary audit numbers and you'll know what's in your fundbalance and you were sitting on, you know, the 20 million from the LTFM soat some point, you know, you just you will just want the funds and and theregular accounting to go with the umthe the exact um amount of money that you have to toallocate towards this. But if we can push back a month, I mean I don't Idon't think it's going to hurt and I think it, you know, again, it'll save amonth of interest cost on $70 million and if we can lower it to 65, you know,I think all of those things are worthwhile.>> [snorts] >> Um, but, you know, the other side of thecoin is while we're trying to balance all ofthose things, you will be earning 5%, you know, on $70 million. So, we reallywant to maximize the the interplay between making sure youearn all of that cuz you can spend it right back on the project um, and andbeing able to keep it and not send it back to the IRS.>> What do you mean? I know it's really hard to tell maybe, but what do youthink will be our rate on these bonds? At least initially.>> Four and a half, four I mean, they're continuing to go up. I don't think theFed has um, give and you know, even with thechange over, I don't think there's any indication that they're going to lowerinterest rates and so, um, you know,it sort of goes to the overall demand in the market at that time and you know,we'll we'll keep an eye on that. >> Mhm.>> Um, you know, we've It's nice to have the flexibility of the70 million cuz we could we could just move, you know, that number up or downby a little bit at the time. Um, move the number not over the 70 million, butright, you know, if we're estimating 65 go to 70.My my biggest example was when rates were lower and we anticipated selling 20200 million for White Bear Lake, we ended up selling 250 becauseyou know, rates were low and they were paying nointerest on that and and there was also So,it's you can't time the market, but you cansituate the district in the best possible scenario.>> Um, can you provide maybe not some peace of mind, but just like what is the I joined when we were wrapping upHighview Elementary and the talk was like, "Oh, this was 45 million or 50million." And and I and I don't know exactly where we ended at. Did we Idon't know if it ended up being 55 million or something like Can you sharewith us what was that experience like? Was there cost overruns?Uh because this particular project was what? 3 years? Is that>> I believe Highview came in under budget. >> Did it come in under budget or overbudget? >> Well, we we we had to make changes,right? That was right in that incredible growth of ofinflation costs for construction. >> Lumber was super expensive.>> So, the first first estimates that came forward were over the amount of moneythat we had available to do the building. So, we had to go back and uhum re-engineer the building a little bit to get the cost down to fit within thefunds we had. Once we did that, we did we did come within budget, but we didhave to make have to make some changes to the building to make sure we wereunder budget. >> It came in ahead of schedule. I thinkthat's something came in that was really quick. It came in ahead of schedule.>> Anyway, we got that all Yeah, yeah, yeah, cuz the building was actually done>> Yeah. >> early summer, right? We didn't need ittill September. So, it was great cuz we had time to move in and get thefurniture in and everything turned out really great. So, we did have to makesome adjustments on the front end to make sure we made it through.>> Cuz the cuz the levy amount is the levy amount. We can't ask for more.>> Right. >> And so,like what's lumber going to be like in 3years from now or 2 and 1/2 years from now? No no one's going to know. But butI'm just saying it's a it's a long project and so, I think it's good tohave some flexibility of how much cash you you pull out, but alsothere there's cost savings now. I think in the airline industry, don't they buygas They buy oil like 9 months in advance or or year and ahalf in advance and and that sort of rate. So, I don't know. It's it's a bigproject. So, >> We sort of leave that I meanwe leave that to the construction firms. I think they build in a lot of that.There was a um a period of time where we were doinga lot of HVAC projects and they they were [snorts]wanting to buy all of that immediately before like the tariffs went intoeffect. >> And so they are monitoring that forpurchases ahead of time and when they provide a draft schedule to the district>> we all know it's >> It's included>> It's going to be wrong, right? It's going to be>> It's usually the contractor that's buying the materials and then billingyou for it cuz otherwise if we're trying to order itthey don't they don't get their markup on it and then they're>> And there's So if you bought it, you don't paytaxes. If they buy it, they do pay taxes and but they can buy a quantity and sothere's a whole strategy there. >> So Shelby, did you say October 15th iswhen you would come back and that what you're thinking of right now?>> In the current schedule, we would provide pre-sale estimates at the Augustmeeting um and award we'd ask you to award at the September meeting and thenit takes a little bit of time to close and you'd have funds in your bankaccount on October 15th. >> And so if you felt like something wasshifting would that necessitate an emergencymeeting or anything like that or is it not something that>> I don't think we could move that fast in terms of shifting. We would eitherum what we want to do is make sure we'renot sort of aligned exactly with when the FOMC meets or you know other big bigpoints like that but or um if there was a presidential election, right? We don'twant to be right on that date. So um by August we'll we'll know if we want topush back a month or >> Well,>> [clears throat] >> we're not doing any construction during>> the school season or during when school is in session, right?>> That's where they're making a lot of their purchases but>> so we'll we'll we'll be doing things that we can do that don't affect actualclassroom. >> Yeah, but like>> So they'll be additions that the additions will we'll try working onthose before school's out. Yes. >> Yeah, right.>> Otherwise we'll never be done. And we'll work right through the winter. >> Okay.Any other questions? Okay, thanks so much, Shelby. What?>> I was I was saying we should start >> I mean, if you're going to work throughthe winter, you might as well but never mind. That's you guys' ownschedule. >> I'm good.>> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah.>> Um moving on to the preliminary fiscal 2017 budget. All right.>> Make this thing up. >> Okay, um well, we're going to go back tothe fiscal fiscal year 2017 budget. We talked about it a month agowith a kind of a first um wash across it. I do want to thank umsome of my staff are here tonight. Um Jill Downey, she's been with us for along time. She's now our director of finance.And uh Jackie Dulac, she's our our managerof our our finance manager.I want to thank thank both of them. Um incredible amount of hours of work hasgone into putting this budget together. When we when we look when we look atputting our budget together, it actually starts about September. If you rememberback talking about our levy back in September, you know, that's for the nextschool year, so 9 months out um before we do that. But our main work happenshappens during the winter right after we get back from from break.Um we'll we'll give you our 5-year um projection, what we really think'sgoing to happen to that budget over the next few years, and then we'll startgoing through detail um of our budget. And that process is we gomeet with every single department, every single principal in in the schooldistrict, and look at what their needs are. Do Do we have a big changes? Wehave some real pressures somewhere? And we'll talk about that here in a littlebit, but you'll see like in teaching and learning area, we did make some changesthere going into next year and get some increases for things they really needed.Um so, we feel good pretty good about that. I feel good about the the budget.It's a conservative budget, but at the same time, if you um turn to page 12out of the book I um passed out. And there you can see that our projectedunassigned fund balance percentage to be at 8 and 1/2% for June 30th of 2027.Um you see it's a little bit lower than we talked about a month agoas we really started fine-tuning what what's happening in this budget, but wefeel very good and very I mean I this I don't think we'd ever come in belowthis. As I say, it was a conservative budget, so I feel good good about whatwe're looking at when we look at our unassigned continuing to increase eventhough it has slowed uh quite a bit.Now, if you want to move back to page fivejust real briefly talk about our enrollment. Our enrollment, as we talked about thelast couple years, has has slowed quite a bit. Well, not verylong ago we saw 3% increase, which was just unbelievable, and we were really umlooking at some pressures on our buildings, but it has slowed. Now, thepressures that were that were going to see at our middle schools are stillthere. Those kids are already in the elementaries and moving forward. Okay,so even though our our enrollment slowed,it's not going to slow in our middle schools.So, for next year for for uh 26-20 27, we're looking at a number of uh 1212,130 students. Um so, we've updated this number sincewe talked, you know, last fall.So, we watch this on a monthly basis. Uh I actually watch it more than that,but um really looking at what's what's happening with it because I I don't wantto bring you a budget that's going to be way off at the end of the year.Okay. >> So, you're only projecting we're goingto have 26 markets next year.>> We're going to Yes. And what we're watching it right nowwe're not seeing that big growth happening at our at our elementaryschools at all. >> But that's good because we don't want toover >> Right.>> over predict like how many students we're going to have because Minnesota'sa reimbursement state so we'll pay for all those kids regardless of whetherthey're here or not and then we have to be reimbursed soit's it's better to be >> Okay. Well, and and that's where we hadthat little bit of a you know, issue a couple of years ago when we were seeingthose 3% increases. Well, that's what we built into the levy and by time we gotthe money from the levy well, then we didn't get 3% we got quite a bit less sothat's why we had that $2 million kind ofgive back really what it was we give back to the taxpayer because we weweren't eligible to take it. Okay.Okay, now let's so talking about levy let's skip to>> Hey Bill, can I mean the numbers again just cuz when you say we're looking toadd like 26 kids total but but again for for those that might be listening we hada lot of high school students graduate I think it was about what 1,100 orsomething like that. >> No, plus or minus.>> 900? >> Yeah, about 900 a little over 900.>> Smaller classes here, right? >> Yeah, it was a smaller class.>> Yeah, smaller classes here. All right, and then the incoming first graders orkindergarten kids is about is it the same 900 or is it lower?>> They're smaller. >> They're smaller.>> So that's where we're seeing some shrinkage because the graduating classis larger than our kindergarten class coming in. That's why we're seeing thevery small increase in the total >> Okay.>> going forward. >> Got it, got it.>> Are we finding there's some districts that talk about that especially withmore expensive homes that families don't move in till later elementary.So are we are we finding that or are kids enrolling inLike do we have children starting in kindergarten and staying all the waythrough or are we finding there's like these times where oh no, now we have asurge of fourth or fifth graders or Do you know what I mean?>> Well, I guess I can't speak to that directly.>> Yeah. >> Um, but if you look back just a coupleyears, we had our kindergarten classes were 850 and higher.>> Yeah. >> This past year was less than like 800.>> Yeah. >> But we are projecting 801 801 for uh forthis fall. >> Okay.>> Yeah. >> It just seems odd.>> [clears throat and cough] >> When you have, you know, 600 new unitsgoing into the city. >> You you>> You see the houses going up. >> Here's Here's what>> It it will it will balance out the the your your K in and yourseniors graduating is the first check number that you need to do.>> Yeah. >> But I willrelentlessly pushthe uhthe number at whatthe cohorts cohort survival tells us. And if we are under, that's okay asDirector Baker said. If you if you overestimate that and you're wrong,>> Mhm. >> that's the gamble you don't want to takebecause you will pay it back and it stays in your system for two fiscalcycles. >> Yes.>> And you don't want that ever. So,we could come out higher than 12 130, butif we're building our budget and we're reporting to MDE, we need to be asuh conservative withoutsuper understating that, of course. But that's why I use a cohort survivalassessment and um I'll just remind everybody we wetriangulated that number this year by going to three different sources.Um and I'm very confident we're we'repretty close. We're not going to I we won't be under.We are more likely to get more kids, but the money will follow. >> I I just want to acknowledge one lastthing. On page 12the total general fund balance is about 27 million, but theunassigned balance is about I'm sorry, 27 million, but theunassigned balance is projected to be about 19.2. And so that would be put usthat would be putting us at about 8 and 1/2%, which is what I think ourfund balance policy is is targeting. Umthe overall expenditures for our school districtuh just for the general fund and then there's then there's there's six othersuh is about 226 million.And ideally we want roughly 10% in there. So we want about 22.6 milliondollars in our savings account. And and we're targeting to be about 19.2uh at the end of next year. And so I just wanted like you know, when you lookat graph at the graph on page 12, uh fiscal year 23, we were at 0.7%and then we're and now we're we're almost going to be targeting at about8.5. And then hopefully maybe the following year we'll be we'll be at 10.Now again, 10% which sounds like a great number and it's about 22 million dollarsand people folks might say, "Oh, that's that's a lot of money." Well, that'sliterally only 3 months worth of of cost uhof runway for us. So that if we don't get any money from the state, we don'tget any money any money for whatever reason,um you that that money will only last us literally 90 days and that's it. And sothe 10% number is still probably on the on the lower end. You probably wouldwant it a little bit higher still, but at least the general rule of thumb is,you know, 10% or greater and we're definitely marching in that direction.So good job. I'm super excited anduh peace of mind from 0.7% to 8 and 1/2% which is fantastic. I I I hear othernews about other school districts cuttingI think Prior Lake had they I think they've got a levy that they'regoing out to the market for in this coming November but it's good tobe able to say hey, we're much more financially well off. We'renot 100% we're not we're not there yet but we're getting close very very close.So good job. >> I think moving our policy from a five toa 10% reserve was a strategic thing in line with peers. So that's a big changetoo I think in the last year. >> But that but just because we have thatmuch money in the bank and obviously we're collecting interest and thatinterest helps fund other operations of of what we're at and we've got that umuh that balance in in the scenario where if we needed to use it to start the theconstruction projects early we've got that flexibility. We wouldn't have hadthat three years ago. There's no way. And so it definitely comes in handy. Umbut that doesn't mean that we are at the optimal level of tax collectionto ensure that our education delivery is where it needs to be. And so uh when wewhen we get to that that time and whether it be the summer or sometime weshould we should really discuss because we have some additional tax authority ifwe need to consider that for future opportunities. SoWhatever teaching and learning wants we can we should have a conversation aboutthat. >> Wait, in special education? >> [laughter]>> Okay. Oh Matt has a question. >> Yeah.I might be getting ahead of ourselves. Are we are we up to page 12?I'm looking at separate here. >> I was going to jump to page 40 just fora minute just so you can see the levy. >> Okay.>> Okay, you can see the change in the levy. It I mean it is a rerun. We talkedabout this last September and we okayed it in December, right? But you see thereon the front on the top side the unassigned components, you see that ourincrease is $1.3 million from our levyfor fiscal '27. So I just see that's a positive positivesign that puts us in good shape. Now, we will jump back now to page 11.>> Well, I'm sorry. Can you Can you explain that? The 1.3 that was for the levy thatwas passed in November. I'm sorry, help me understand. Not notthe bond. >> No, this This is our the regular schoollevy that we do every single year. >> Yep.>> Okay, this page 40 is all the components that go into that levy.>> Yeah. >> I think there is some confusionsometimes with the public of we know we're going out for a levy for a voteand then there's the annual levy and kind of how those things are related ofcourse. >> Well, ifif you look at the top portion, the very top portion, it says unassigned. That isvoter approved. Okay? So all of our all of our the referendum piece are ouroperating referendum. >> Yeah.>> That's that top third of the page. The The next pieces, those are not voterapproved. Those are pieces that the state of Minnesota allows us to levy forto cover these expenses. So you see the the A&I grant. You see the safe schoolsmoney. Okay? Vocational reemployment Q comp. You know, those things are thingsthat we can do where we don't have to go ask every single year for this for thecommunity to give us authority to do that.>> And for clarity, it's item number four, referendum. Or is that>> That's the operating referendum. >> So 24.9 millionis what our community members have voted to say we will pay more to fund oureducation system. And then of that 24.9 million, it is part of58.6 million. So roughly about less than 50% uh you know, comes from propertytaxes uh to fund our school. But our community members have voted to approveuh roughly 25 million. Now, if they votedno, then we'd have $25 million less to work with. We still get 25 million cuzthat's a state mandate uh to to levy our community.>> pieces, yeah. >> And so, all the 58 million that comesfrom property taxes, 226 million is what it costs to run ouroperations. And so, we get the other half or the the other 3/4 generally fromthe state of from the state of Minnesota.>> Correct. >> And that's all>> all depicted in those pie charts. >> pie charts, yep. Yep.>> Okay. I guess the only other thing maybe justto to when we talk about whether voter approved or not, if you look at the debtservice piece, that's where the money comes out for like what we just passed.It's money for the buildings, and that is voter approved. So, that very bottompiece, the debt service, that's all voter approved.Okay. Now, let's jump to page 11. And here, we get a snapshot of what'sgoing on with our revenue. Again, you'll see that our our statesources, and that's going to be money that comes from the state of Minnesota,not through their tax levy. Okay. That's So, we got 148 149 millionfrom the state of Minnesota. Again, again, our property taxes are at 59million. Our federal sources, they're at 3.2.>> Can I make a recommendation just for the future? And maybe you guys don't needthat, but like it says property taxes, which is the third item under underrevenue on page 11. And it says 50 59.1 million. I'd love tobe able to like break that out and say 50 likeproperty taxes mandated, property taxes referendum.>> That's That's page 40. >> Yeah, well, no one's going to get topage 40. That's the issue. I mean, I wouldbecause we're we're spending 226 milliondollars, and uh and while$59 million is coming from taxes. Only $25 million is approved by ourcommunity. And so, while that's a I I think that's a a reasonablenumber to make sure people understand that yes, we are paying if you know,your property taxes do pay for schooling and uhuh almost roughly 10% is approved byreferendums. And if you and so I I don't know. It's not a high It's It'sa high number, but it's not a high number, 10%. So,I don't know. That's an observation. >> Have you been hearing a lot of likequestions about that? >> I have not.>> Oh, okay. I'm just curious like >> No one probably is asking questionsabout it, but I I'm just wondering if anyone makes it to page 11, they'relike, "Huh, property taxes. We pay $59 million. Well, is it $59 millionreferendum or $59 million or what? How do I How do I vote no for this?" And theanswer is you don't really don't. You get to vote no for only for only $25million of it. If you want to If you want to vote no, the other $25 millionis demanded, right? >> Or you can vote yes.>> I mean or you or yes, or you can vote yes, but Iit's Yeah. It could be It could be misleadingis what I'm saying. >> So, you're saying people think thatthey're paying $59 million but the community is paying $59million. >> board has approved $59 million of Yeah.>> But they are paying $59 >> Yeah, they are paying $59>> They are. >> They are They are paying $59 but they'rechoosing to pay 25 of >> mandated versus optional.>> Yes. Yeah. They're choosing to pay They voted to pay half of the 59.And the other half, it's they don't have a choice.According to the state. >> That's correct.>> Okay, let's move on to the expenditure portion of this same page. You see hereum we broke it all by object so you can seethat our salaries and wages now are up to 111 million.Our benefits there are at almost 55 million.Um Purchase services really no no change.Um we if you look at the uh the uhPowerPoint that I sent out, you'll you'll see the changes and thepercent change. So, when we look at the um expenditures,uh our wages and salaries are up 2.4% almost 2.5. Our employee benefits are up9 and 1/2%. Of course, that's because of our insurance situation.Um purchase services up only 1.8. Our supplies and materials are up 12. Again,a big change in our teaching learning and the uh some of the materials thatwe're buying. That's why you see an increase there. Our capitalexpenditures, you see an increase there of uh$29 million. That is because we next year we're buying new devices for thestudents. Uh so, that's a big big jump. >> million. You said 29.>> 29 >> Oh, 28%.>> 29%. 4.5 million. Okay. Okay, if we move the page,>> Yeah. >> I>> That's fine. >> I mean, depending on how far you'regoing to go. Um Down on on page 11, proceeds from saleof assets, there's finance purchase proceeds, $5 million.Um refinancing devices for $5 million.>> Yeah, the the [snorts] devices um we've had umthe way we've financed those in the past is a is a lease purchase.>> I'm looking at the left column. >> So, that's why you're seeing a $5million increase on the capital piece on top.>> Mhm. >> And then we're we're we're borrowingthat money, so to speak, the $5 million below.>> So, you're counting that kind of as as revenue to some extent.>> Well, it's other financing sources. That's why it's not in the revenue line.Um so, the one thing not to concern about, yousee that our revenue is $220 million, but our expenditures are $226. Well,except that we have this money down here that we're bringing in that balances allthat out. >> So then I guess what's the What are thehard costs for the $5 million? The essentially the finance purchaseprice of the $5 million for the year. Cuz it kind of cancels it out, right?But we're paying interest on the $5 million.>> lease is at this point approximately $5 million. We don't have the exact numberscuz we haven't bought the We haven't gone through that process of actuallygetting the quotes yet. Um but that's approximately what we paidlast time. >> Okay.>> Okay. Yes.>> So I have two things I want to point out here because we obviously just had alevy, so there was a lot of financial questions that were asked about ourbudget and making sure that we're being umfrugal with with how we spend things, but I I guess I was kind of drawn tothat we had salaries at 111.2 million and then benefits at 54.7, and I wasdoing the math, which is approximately 73%of our general fund goes to salaries and benefits. Is that correct?>> Oh, yeah. If you look at it on your on your sheet um on the PowerPoint,>> Yeah. >> I have the percentages broke down.>> Oh, you did that. Well, wonderful. See, I was trying to like do the math over onthe side, but I just think that's important to point out that the majorityof our budget is people. >> Mhm. Oh, absolutely.>> 73% of our general fund expenditures are salaries and benefits. And then theother thing that I noticed because you have this so broken down from 4 yearsprevious, we can look at like the employee benefits started at 42.9, andthey've grown to 54.7. So that's like about 30% close to um how much thingshave grown just on the benefits side, but then I think that brings out that umlegislation that was passed with the um Family Medical Leave>> Oh, that's in here. Yeah. >> Correct, right? Yeah, I'm just I'm justwanting to point those things out because these are things that we haveinherited as far as like expenses for the district and these are things thatare obviously impacting our budget. So.>> Mhm. >> Yes.>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, I mean to that point you'relooking at nine a $9 million increase year over year just for employee relatedcosts. >> Right.>> And we're only getting 2%. No, we're only getting 25 new kids, you know, soit's not like we're getting a ton of I mean what is that?Quarter of a million dollars? 250? 280,000 dollars for the new kids?And so >> Yeah, but it's not a big number. You'recorrect. >> So so what I'm trying to say is likewe're not really overspending. It's labor cost.You know, like >> But we negotiated the labor costs.>> Right, but we can't just not get the raise. Likeright, when the majority of your budget is people and then some of these thingsare told to us what we're going to provide and how that we need to havesome of these, you know, the Family Medical Leave Act, different paidleaves. Um it impacts what we can offer becausethat's already taken out of our budget. >> Yes.I guess I mean my concern overall, I mean going to page 12, you'relooking at a total expenditures are going up $14million, you know, 6 and 1/2% increase year over year on our total expendituresand our income is not going up you know, tracking with that at all.>> Yeah, and that's and then we've talked about that in the past. That's onereason why that increase in our fund balance has has decelerating>> Mhm. >> because our costs are going up fasterthan our expenditure than our revenue. >> Mhm. Well, I mean at this rate you'relucky to have any increase. >> Yeah, it's>> And you're on a signed >> Our our our budgets become pretty tightand it's a little more than we anticipated this last year because ofour insurance costs and the added um cost from the state for the leave.>> Yes. That's where all these things becomeimportant to monitor in terms of some of the unexpected insurance costs andthings like that that we don't know if it's going to be a year over year thingor just that was an anomaly and so >> Yeah, and hope it>> We're on a close watch. >> We watch it very closely.>> Yeah. Okay, umI want to briefly talk about the other funds.So, I move to page 14. You see here the student nutrition, very healthy balancehas been for quite a while. Again, it's it's behaving in a waythat's very positive, so they're very healthy.Move on on to page 16, you see um community edge>> about that? Back you up. UmI see in the fund overview, just information about the increases. One isdue to um probably the collective bargainingagreement, the 2% hourly wage increase. But then, also the planned 5% increasedue to the current war going on. Are we expected to see, because of the warWhat page 13? >> Page 13.>> So, they're estimating that food will cost 5% more because of what'shappening in >> Yeah, and that's that's that's mainlywell, it's mainly due to fuel cost and delivery cost.>> So, are we expecting that like with the construction that we're going to have? Imean, really every good that we purchase potentially could have that.>> Yes. >> Okay.>> Absolutely. >> Okay.>> So, then do you wait and see if prices go down, or if you buy now and seeprices go up? It's like >> Well, just always remember too, ifyou're starting if you're talking about supply chain, which is what you'retalking about, then you're also talking about hardware goods.Um if that's not properly timed, you have astorage cost fees. >> Yeah.>> Um so, the the idea to purchase them early to getwe'll call it optimal pricing, will get eaten up in your storage sideof things. So, it's just-in-time and pay-as-you-go typicallyis what professional supply chain people aretrying to accomplish on the regular uh so that you have what you need whenyou need it and you're not paying storage costs and you're not payingtoo early too soon cuz that that market shifts, too. AndI I know we don't want to gamble too much, but I think that's another elementof this that we have to consider. And fuel costs right nowbecause of the the uh straights, uhthat's that's a barn burner.And it's going to affect our project as it's affecting our transportation costs.>> Yeah, it stood out here when you wrote about it, but I know the food servicefund typically can absorb it based on the healthy balance it's carried, right?But not so much in the other categories. >> the other ones.>> Yeah. >> Are we Are we still looking at where weneed to spend down more in the food service>> Well, the state of Minnesota hasn't put that hard deadline in yet. They keeptalking about bringing it back, but they haven't. But we know that it used to be3 months of expenditures and we're about a half million over that. So,we're very close. Um I'm not concerned about it at thispoint. >> can't move that money.>> Yeah, I can't I can't use it somewhere else.>> You know, my my my daughter has asked if if if they can get two helpings ofItalian donuts during lunch time and if I can>> and not have to pay for the second >> have to pay for the second.Just saying. >> I I'd be all about that one.>> But 4.3 million is is is very healthy. So, yeah. But we can't spend it onanything else. >> on the food>> No, furniture.>> and furniture >> I'd make my own furniture>> food service >> That's over now.>> item >> So, we can't do it any longer.>> Right. The furniture thing is out. >> But we did optimize that.>> And we bought a lot of new lunch containers.>> Okay. >> Let's move to page 16.Just briefly, um community service, again thereum fund balance had fallen down to zero and a little below uh right after thepandemic. Uh they've been going along kind of flat Um looking at a smallincrease in their fund balance again for next year.>> I'm looking at bullet three and on page 15 where there is a totalexpenditure projected to increase by roughly $427,000but that's also because we have been included the staff of the small wonderspreschool to the teachers contract and so that was expected. I'm glad that wascalled out here because again there's value in having them inin the agreement that they're in now but it does impact the financials.>> That's a good point. >> I didn't realize it would beyeah. >> And they're not on the salary schedule.They have a different schedule. >> They have a different schedule.>> But the benefits I think is the main change. Is that right Brenda? What doyou say? Sorry I know you're >> I'm sorry.>> With no with the small wonders. >> That's correct.>> They're not on the salary they're not on the matrix like regular but the benefitsis where they increase really hit for that group.>> And it's uh >> Benefits weren't much different.>> Yeah the benefits would have been the>> minor >> They were close to the same but it wasthe there was a significant increase in the salary.>> Oh okay. Yeah. >> It was like almost like 15 $20,000Well maybe it it it varies based on the the step so.>> Okay. >> But it it was an increaseand uh and they were added onto the EMLcontract so. >> Good.>> 8000 >> Okay, move on to page 17. This is ourbuilding construction fund. Here you can see we're expect excuse me expecting[clears throat] about $30 million in expenditure cost.About 10 of that is our LTFN so 20 is the start up of our new project on themiddle schools. Page 18 is our debt service.Again thisthis fund is very healthy. It puts us in a good place when weborrow these uh these funds. We'll be able to use some of this fund balance onour first payments of our new debt. It will help our tax payers. Okay,>> [sighs] >> 21.Of course, this is our internal service fund, which is our health insurance,dental insurance. Umyou know, we're projecting uma small a small change in this year, andand looking about the same for next year. When we're watching theexpenditures go through as of now, umwe're we're we're not expecting a big um change or a big improvement. Umso, the change now that we put in place um on the premium side is going to helpus so we don't fall any longer. So, if they continue to watch this and startbuilding that fund balance back up. Okay, um pages 22to 37. This is more detail we put in here. Um you can read it at yourleisure, but it's broke down by every single building. You can see what'shappening with the enrollment. You can see what's happening with with the costsover the last 5 years. I get an idea of where we're spending the money in thosebuildings. Um we jump to 4041. This is where we'vebroke down the costs more. So, they're broke down by each programarea. You can see the changes both last year and this year in the amounts.When you look at total regular instruction,I see an increase there of $2.7 million. That's about 3% increase in our generalinstruction. Special education, we're looking at a 8.3%increase. Um instructional support, there we gotsome like we talked earlier, some bigger numbers. We have 16.6%.Um um really when we look at our curriculumcosts and increases there. Um, after that we break it down one moreone more level. You can see that inside each of the program then we're brokedown by object. So, um, you can read that as you're at your leisure. So, youcan see the changes on a very detailed basis.If we if we jump>> Maybe I'll come I'm sorry. I'm still stuck on 21. That'sFY21. Can I just quickly, uh, get clarity on on fiscal year 26 budget? You're So, this is a health insurancefund. >> Yes.>> And last year we spent $37 millionand that fiscal year ended was it end of June? Is it June 30th?>> Well, we actually lots lots of our claims run into the summer months. Okay?>> So, if you were had service with your doctor in June, but we didn't pay for ittill July or August, that's included in the previous year.>> So, so then my question then is in the fiscal year 26 budget, this this currentcycle which ends in June in in in a few weeks,um, are we really targeting $36.7 million inspend? >> Yes, we are.>> Okay. And and so that's with estimating what we've spent today pluswhatever we think is coming in June plus whatever that might trickle in in Julyand August? >> Yes.>> Okay. So, so 25 wasn't an outlier then. If that's what I mean.>> Well, I Again, I'm going to bring you aconservative budget. I'm not going to assume that it's going to be a lot less,even though I wish it was, right? And it certainly can be, but we do not we donot know. >> Right. But but based on what you know asof last month, so at the end of May, you've got X dollars of spend that youhave already had and then whatever you're forecasting in June compared to Imean, I'm assuming you I'm assuming whatever we did last yearis probably what is forecasted in June plus three or five or 10%. And thenwhatever you're adding in July and August as those claims trickle in andinto the summer months. And then when you add it all that together, you'relooking at 36.7 million.>> Correct. >> Now, with the hope that maybewhatever happens in July and August don't trickle in cuz that was theoutlier, right? So, we don't really know when the outlier we don't know if it iflast year was an outlier until >> We're not going to know until we get toAugust. >> Until we get to August.>> Where are we at right now? I mean, do you have a>> We're >> a May 30th number?>> Yeah, when when we when we look when we look at right now, it's behaving exactlyit did the year before. >> So>> So, we're right on line. >> We're like 30 million?>> Yeah. >> Yeah.>> And and and so so if you look at not last year, but the year before that,where we at this is at the same. So, roughly 30 million as well. So, sowhatever >> 24>> Yeah. I'm just curious if if the pattern is still the same that we had previouslyprevious years. >> Yeah. You know what I mean?>> Our pattern right now is the same as previous years. What we saw differentlast year was the summer months. >> July and August.>> They were really large. >> Got you.>> Okay. >> Okay.>> So, we'll I said we'll keep we'll we'll keep you abreast of what's going onthere, but we really won't know till we get to August really what's happening.>> Okay. >> Until we see until we see the claimsthat come in. >> So, the claims that we've alreadyreceived the the revenue that we've already received this yearcuz we didn't make any adjustments for for this year is>> Well, there was there was a there was an increase of 5%.>> 5% yeah. Yeah. But that was but that was enough to cover what we've historicallyhave always had. And so, if there isn't a an outlier in in July and August, thenwe should be then it would cover all the expenditures and we're fine. But thatdoesn't increase the fund balance for >> No, it just keeps flat.>> No. >> Yeah, 5% was still factoring us losing 2and 1/2 million dollars. So. >> Got it. Got it.>> Or no, 2.16. I'm sorry. >> And and againhealth care is health care. If you need it, go get it.It's hard to forecast, so we just don't know if July and August is going to bean outlier year. >> 41Yeah, we're back. Yeah, 41. Yep. >> And there's nothing we can do theright now because we've already set the rate changes. It's already going intoeffect in July 1st. And uh uhand if if there is any uh expenditures that go above and beyondwhat we have in the fund balance for the health insurance fund balance, then theoverages is covered by the general fund balance, which is the the uhthe 19 that we have in in our pocket. So.>> Correct. >> So, we pay for it. Not we, but theschool district pays for it out of our general fund balance. But, we do getthat reimbursed when >> Correct.>> the health insurance fund balance gets back up. Okay?>> It would it would be like a temporary loan for the fund sick fund money, Imean. >> Okay. I mean, it'd come from anotherpart of our budget. So, we'd still be paying for it.>> Well, no. It would It'd be in fund 20, so it'd still would come from futurepremium to pay for it. >> Future premiums, but then we're justwe're giving them a loan. >> We should collect We should collectinterest. >> We probably will.>> Can I ask a random question that Can I ask a random question?I'm just looking at um the north and south high schoolpopulations because I know we part of this in terms of future planning isreally kind of thinking about high school in terms of our big classcoming there eventually. Uh page 22 and 23. So, what I'm seeingis a very steady increase in population at north and a very steady decrease inpopulation at south. So, I'm curious about that. And also,too, I'm just curious about the budgets for both schools given the differencesof That's a big difference in population.>> Yes, north north is growing. >> North is growing.>> South is shrinking when it comes to enrollment. It's been For many years,it's practically the same number. It was unbelievable how close they were. But,last the year we're in and into next year,there's less at South. >> Do we need to re- Do we Do we need toredistrict high school? >> I didn't want to put that out there, sobut Uh>> [laughter] >> but from a budgeting standpoint, we'respending $2,000 more per every South student. So, why wouldn't we just havemore staffing at North to accommodate? >> It's It's It's It's the experiencefactor on your staff. Okay, we got more experienced people atSouth than we do at North, and they cost more.>> Yeah. >> So, then this goes back to like from afrom a business or corporate lens, every department has a set budget, andthen if you need however many resources, that's that'sthe budget you work with. >> Well, but this this I meanso right now>> Like you would give both >> what I hear what I hear you saying, likeright now we're looking at 23, for instance.Many less students at North than South, but South had a bigger budget, which isnot what we're seeing. But, you're saying that essentially we have>> We have more senior staff at South. >> Which you can't I mean, you can't movepeople exactly. >> Right, right. I mean, I I I think that'sthat's where that's where umstaffing allocation and budget allocations is I would assume have to bemonitored and have some governance in place for that, because if you hire Imean, if you're a football team and you hire like the most expensive offensivelineman, and then you hire all five of them, like maybe you can't get a goodquarterback, cuz all your money's spent. So.>> I just I'm trying to be thoughtful of this, because I think umwe do have to start looking ahead, like not I'm not I'm not just concerned aboutthe budget, but also these numbers and what they mean for potential bonds downthe road for our high schools. Um and we've kind of talked about highschools, and so this is considering this development that's growingor happening by Walmart that is supposed to be reallylarge, right? So that all of that is included in here, right?>> Well, these are actual numbers, right? There's no projection. These are Theseare kids that we've counted. >> Oh, so it's not counting the potential.>> There's We didn't speculate on new on newenrollment in the high schools. >> So that could look pretty>> These are actual >> depending on how that>> next year at North 5:30. >> It's a big class.>> Yeah. Yeah. These are kids that we actuallycounted their heads. >> Except the schools.>> Okay. >> Well, to member's point earlier aboutthat that I feel like I know that's a mixed development down there, butthere's going to be a lot of bigger houses that probably might pull biggeror older students potentially if but I don't know.>> Oh, that's speculation. I just I'm I was wanting to understand thosechanges. >> I think it's a reasonable logicalIf it's a $700,000 home, I mean you may you may not have a kindergarten. I don'tknow. So uh but you knowcurrently I think you're right. I mean it's it isit is interesting to see the numbers where you're roughly spending the samedollar amount 21.5 million at both high schools, but Lakeville North does have200 more students. And so while the revenue isI don't know if you need more staff. I'm assuming you would need more staffthere, right? >> Yeah, we Yeah, we allocate We allocatestaff numbers by number of students. >> Yeah, so if you have more staff at atNorth High School then if you just if you did the math, I wouldassume that the average cost of an FTE for Lakeville North would be slightlylower than Lakeville South just because there's more staff there, but thenumbers are still the same. The dollar value is still the same. So then youactually have more experienced teachers at at Lakeville South.>> Do you anticipate Brenda whoever that kind of being cyclical with South thoughbecause everyone was hired at the same time when it opened, right? And aren'twe kind of at the older end of that group now where they're just starting toretire? >> We hadWe had the majority of the staff came from whenwe were Lakeville High School. >> Yeah.>> There was a process by which teachers could apply to go to South when itopened. >> Okay.>> Um and and so there was quite a number of staff that that filled that building.And of course you want to have a balance of of newer teachers and more veteranteachers, but I think from the onset, I if I recall correctly,we had a higher percentage of the staff that was more veteran at that time. Andthey're still in the system, which is why you have uhwhy you have a a more veteran staff in that building is that they're allthey're still there from when they came over.>> Yeah. >> Some of them are starting to retire nowbecause obviously, you know, South has been open fora couple of two decades now. So um so you'll see that change over, but Ithink that's a result of So what happened is when all the teachers leftLakeville High School and went to South, then when North was established, all ofthose positions were filled then with less senior, less veteran staff.>> So would it would it be helpful for if there wasuh an an another line item cuz on page 22 and 33 you got spending per student,which is 12,600 at at South and 10,700 at North. Do would you want to see thatthe average cost of an FTE and then you can kind of see the breakdown of whatthat looks like? >> I mean I hear Bill. I hear Bill sayingthat there's more senior staff. >> Yeah.>> I >> Okay.>> I Sorry, it was a random question partly because I'm also trying to think ahead.>> Um >> with these numbers.>> Thank you. >> Okay.>> Okay, then just briefly to uh finish up, if you move to page 51 and 52, that'sall our all our capital um budgetinguh mainly our our LTFM. You see that there.Which we talked about last time. Page 53 and 54, these are mainly statpages. Um these haven't been updated by MDE yet, so these are the same pagesthat were in the regular budget. They haven't changed yet. So, overall, when we bring this budgetback to you umin a couple weeks Let me find my page here.Um overall, all funds, you see there our budget um our budget will be at $335 million uhwith uh with an overall fund balance of allfunds of 80 million. Umjust at a 30,000-ft look at it. So, any otherquestions? >> I might be a question for Bowman, moreout of curiosity. When on page 53 when you look at this rank of schoolsand St. Paul and Minneapolis are obviously big districts and they're alsotop one and two for revenue and expenditures. Expenditures make sense tome. And revenue, too, but in comparison tolike Anoka or 196 is it just cuz the state is fundingthose districts more? Or how are they so high?>> they're city What What is that term uh city of the first class of first classlegislation that governs them? >> Oh, yeah, they're special.Um and from a funding perspective, um the legislature has They're cities ofthe first class. So, there's that mechanism uh andI'd love to explain it to you, but >> Burnsville here, then, being third.Way down on the list. >> Yeah, they Well, the other thing, too,that I feel like doesn't get enough airplay is the the demographic breakdownof your student body is going to generate federal dollars ata rate that um uhis you know, something Lakevillecan't if you want to call it compete, doesn't doesn't function under. I mean,our federal dollars was 2%. What is it What is it, Bill?I can't think of it. I know it's on one of the pie charts there. I want to sayit's >> It's two or two and a half.>> Yeah, something like that. Um And then the other thingum Okay, 1.47, not even 2%.>> There you go. >> Thank you, Jill. And And the other thingis umCity of the first class, you get a lot of federal support. I had the other one in my head and it'suh Yeah, it slipped away.You might remember it, but um If you see I think Anoka on a per ADM islower than St. Paul and Minneapolis. um>> Yeah, it is. >> So, that I mean, there's some there'ssome interesting points there. >> Well, I feel like what I like about thischart is that it helps me think about from a funding perspective and sizereally why is that a Lakeville and Mounds View are kind of a trio in thesense of if we're going to compare money, how much is Mounds View orWaconia's money, we should be kind of in on par giventhe revenue that we receive. Like it it doesn't help us to compare toyou know, I don't know. Or or Prior Lake or like cuz they'rejust getting different, very different amounts.>> Yeah, that's true. And I think we've tried to make that point before, buthere's what the other thing is geography, right?Where do you sit on the map? >> Yeah.>> Or, where do you sit on the ground? Well, Farmington, Burnsville, PriorLake, they're all around us, so uh then you got 196, which is a behemoth overthere. >> Uh-huh.>> Um so, I mean, the a lot of times thecomparison start becoming a little bit if you're comparing relational thingsversus financial things, you know, there's differences.>> That that kind of get into play there, so.>> Yeah, okay. >> Yeah, I like 53 cuz I think it's a goodvisualization and and I do appreciate that you highlighted and highlighting itin red, so that we know we we are the ninth largest school district in thestate. And we uh generate >> Based on student enrollment.>> Based on student enrollment, yes. Thank you. Yeah, based on student enrollment,almost, you know, 12,000. But, we are also the uh 18th uh in in revenuecollection or tax collection. And so, while other schools are much higher, uhbut, you know, it's we're we're not we're not in thetop 10 in regards to revenue and we're not in the top 10 in expenditures. So,we're doing uh we are trying to be as optimal as we canwith the revenue that we that we are receiving.Uh and ideally you'd be you'd want to be close tomaybe to your enrollment count. Um I would love to see, and maybe this isjust for another meeting in in the future for maybe a page 55 or somethinglike that. Um it would be good to see in this kind of budget packet uhour referendum opportunities or our our our referendumschedule. Schedule, yeah. Uh and then what and what our capacity is because Ibelieve >> That that's an easy That's an easy oneto add to the budget book. Um I did remember what it was. Uh, free andreduced. Okay, so the populations and I can't speak for Minneapolis cuz uhwell, I I do kind of know, but with St. Pauluh, and it's been a long time ago that I was there as a CFO, but we were75, 76% free and reduced. Um, and we don'tLakeville doesn't play in that in that uh, circle very uh, not at thosenumbers. So, those are other things that that the in- the intentional design offinance, whether you're talking about Minnesota school finance or federalsupport to states uh, through um, financemechanisms. Uh, all you know, that's changing and it always does. Um,but the supports are are intentionally designed and we're not so muchbenefiting from those. But, you know, that's not a value judgment. It's justthat's that's why you see the numbers the way you do.>> Yeah. >> I also have some some questions and Ithink the board has been doing a lot of work around teaching and learningbecause I know when you look at these numbers, you automatically think, "Howcan we increase our financing?" Um, but I also feel like there's somedeeper questions and reflection on some of these numbers about what are we doingwithin our district with like processes and procedures. Um, I love data. I keepdata. I've got it back to like 2014 and and sooner. I told Bill I was so excitedI could add another book to my collection. Um, so I have all my chartsand I'm looking at all my data and I I was specifically looking at ourenrollment growth from 2015 to 2024. And we grew by 1,072 students.But, our special education population grew by 502.So, we all know that special education isimportant. Um, and when I think about those numbers, how over half of ourenrollment growth was connected to special ed. That doesn't mean that allof these students moved in that had disabilities. It just means that ourspecial education growth was much moving more quicker than our overallenrollment. So, when I think about that, I go back to teaching and learning.Right? Because why are these students qualifying for special education? Idon't think we're over qualifying students. I think that that's a directcorrelation to what our students need, which is more intervention so thatthey're not qualifying for special education. Because we don't want thissuper expensive model. We want people We want students in the core. We wantstudents accessing core education. And if wemake our intervention system more robust across elementary and secondary, then weshould see those special education numbers decline. Therefore, our specialeducation money that we're spending would also decline because it's cheaperto have students within general education. Um, it's just it's just anexpensive model. We don't want to pull kids out. You know, and and honestly,when your special ed numbers get that much where they're growing in thatcapacity, then it's not small small group instruction anymore. So, then youhave to pull out because you can't serve kids in four different third gradeclassrooms with one teacher. They can't push in. They have to pull out. And thenthey're pulling them out of core. And then we're making them further behind bydoing that. So, when I think of like philosophically, like looking at thisdata, I see things where I'm like, these are things that we can target. And I'msure your mind's already going there cuz I see your wheels turning there, too. Oflike things that we could do instructionally and procedurally and andbuild our programs up, which it which in turn, long term, is going to impact ourbudget in a positive way. But, anyway. >> So, you're saying like more up front?>> I know, I was going to say like I was curious to learn like and I know this isa little off the numbers, but to that point, like what is the relationshipbetween the departments, teaching and learning, and student servicesto try to get at what Kim is addressing. I don't know if Michelle or Tracy youhave perspective on that. It seems like you should be highlyhighly coordinated. >> For sure. Um our teams do work together.Um we have uh been working together around interventions, which I believe iswhat you're referring to. We are adding um three intervention specialists, oneat each one of our um elementary not elementary, middle schools um forliteracy for this school year. Umuh and we've been working with our uh student services department on what thatmodel um actually looks like. So we've been engaged together for that.>> Thanks. >> And I'm glad we're adding three, butlike there's five 600 kids. No, I'm sorry, there's a thousand kids in eachmiddle school. And so one person in a thousand kids and not not everyone'sgoing to need, but if you do 20% and you get that's 200 and then that you see20% of the 20% of that 20% and then you're looking at 20 of them. I thinkthat's the math. 40. >> But technically, there's tiers to thatsystem, right? So you have tier one, which is our core, tier two, which wouldbe like an intervention, and special ed would be tier three.Now, if they're coordinating together, then you would hope that from tier twoto tier three, there's an intensification or maybe a differentintervention because if we're using the same interventions in tier two and tierthree, we're not going to see any difference when a kid moves into tierthrough tier three really. So I appreciate that, but then you also haveto think like we should have that many people at each tier and so that we can>> And that costs money. And that costs money. And so this goes back to the thepage that I'm requesting, which is page 55, which isn't here yet. But like maybeon the next round, how much are we like what's what are wecollecting in tax revenue for referendumsuh to offset that? Cuz then when I look at Edina,uh yes, they are 17th in the largest in in regards to enrollment, but they arethe sixth in revenue tax collection at 19 19 at 19,700and we're collecting 17500. That's a $2,000 delta. And so, if you if if weare if the community chooses and if we atthe board agrees that hey, we should let the community decide, do you wantadditional taxes to go into education to pay for not just one butmaybe five in our in each middle school. >> We did go out for that. Sorry. It's afeeder. We did go out for that and it did notpass in our community. >> there's new opportunity. Right.>> But what I also hear and I would be curious to know is or if you guys feelthe same way that if we put money into interventionists at the primary level,so not secondary too, both but probably ideally primary level,do we see that come back? So it like what kind of investment are we talkingabout? Do we take a risk on that to umrecoup that money in on the back end.Um and what kind of timeline that would take.>> Good question. >> Yeah, Matt.>> Well, in into that point, um and if you're going to ask for more money,I mean, are there studies? Is there any evidence that shows hey, if we haveX amount of time at at tier one with an interventionist, we can get thatkid so he has no services after one year or with a tier two where we can reducethem down to tier one which then requires less intervention time. Youknow, so we can cut down staffing costs. It might takeI don't know, two years but there should beI would imagine somebody's probably studied this to figure out>> of data. Yes. >> Yeah, if they have this amount more timeand then if we do the calculation to figure out, I mean, you still have toplay it through the system but to Brian's point, if you're diluting themdown and and I would argue that maybe it's more important at the elementaryschool level um because then they might not even getto >> They won't They won't need it. So,you're you're watering the flower early and making sure that it has a chance togrow and >> But otherwise, if are we really going tomake it a dent in the system if it's just oneinterventionist? >> needed at secondary level because you'llhave students that move in from other districts that haven't had access to thesame level of curriculum that we have here or you have students that aremoving in from other countries. >> because there's ideally there'll be lessfrom the elementary going into the middle school. And so, ideally yeah.>> Possibly. >> The impact would be different, I think.>> That's I'm curious. >> It's a bigger investment given we'retalking about nine elementary buildings versus three.>> We have interventionists at the elementary level.>> Should we say that first? >> I'm more at more adding in terms ofneed. >> But there's a reason you're proposingthis model and I'm curious what that is. >> Yes.>> [laughter] >> Yes. So, adding the three at the um uhmiddle schools are tier three interventionists. Um we have had to givethe CAPT test um to all of our the assessment to all of our students. Andso, we're identifying the students that need different aspects of umuh literacy intervention along the way. And so, we want to start um small withthis um because we want to make sure we can doit well. And so, we want to get to a place inimplementation where we have it standardized that we're able to catchthe students that we need to and provide the most um accurate supports for them.Our middle school principals have also committed to tier two interventions sothat those students don't go from tier three back into the classroom, thatthey're supported to the next level down to tier two, and then they go back intothe classroom. But we really want to focus on this model and see it throughto implementation so that we know we can really do this well. And then we'll takethe next step as to what more do we need in our system to beable to support the rest of our students. So this is a first phase or afirst step into providing the right supports. We don't We want to go slow togo fast. We want to make sure that we can implement to a high levelas we're adding people into our system. >> I would say I would also add to thatit's not necessarily always about adding more people, although it's helpful, buta strengthening processes that we have in place. So in partnership too withcontinuous improvement department, really looking at our interventionprocess and who's around that table on a weekly or bi-weekly basis to beidentifying which students need support, whether it's academically, socially, orbehaviorally. So really coming back and strengtheningthat intervention process, too.>> Well, and then tying the intervention to the right the student to the rightintervention because that CAPT data is very detailed. So then you know, likewhere the deficit is and how what you can use tohelp that student succeed. So that's great.>> Yeah, I would also add to that what Michelle said around tier one, howimportant that is. And we've taken the right steps this year to really focus ontier one, focus on standards, and making sure that we're teaching to thosestandards so that we know what teachers need to reteach. The teachers know whatthey have to reteach, what their students didn't get when they were inthat lesson, so they can circle back around and reteach so that they don'thave to be pushed onto interventions, but that's happening right in the tierone classroom. >> So are are all are are our specialeducation teachers getting the same instruction onhow to implement the core with their student population because ifthey have to be able to implement the core within their classroom and havethat like is special education getting some of those same supports cuz I knowsome of the things that I hear in the buildings I don't have access to thecurriculum or the book that I have as a teacher's manual that's 5 years old orsomething like that like that doesn't help them get students back on track orhelp students, you know, close the gap. Or do they have some of the similarsupports as Janet? >> Um they do and that was one thing thatwe recognized this year as Sandy and I were diving into the work and as weuncovered that we began working with Michelle's team um Alexia Pappas Finleyum to recognize where we needed that extra support for our staff members. Sothat's been a big um push to >> Mhm. Push that.>> Yeah. >> Okay, Matt, yeah.>> Yeah. I can't remember if we we talked about this at the board table or not. Umhave you guys looked at what they're doing down in like Louisiana with thethird grade gate? I think it's called the third grade gate.Where and maybe we talked about this just internallywhere if a student isn't proficient in like literacy or meeting literacy goalsthey don't progress to the next grade. Uh and this goes back to the, you know,early interventions because at some point you're learning to read and thenit switches where you're reading to learn.And if you're not proficient, you're just going to keep falling further andfurther behind every year in literacy. I mean, if you can't read and keep up witheveryone, you're not going to process. And I know, I mean, cuz I'd readarticles cuz Louisiana's now like seventh in the nation. Like they'veleapfrogged leapfrogged us, you know, for sure.Um and that was one of the things early interventions, you know, to hit thoseissues early. >> I was just reading about Louisiana, too,cuz I think that one of the reports came out today. And Mississippi, too, is>> Yeah. >> But what they're findingis that yes, they're holding them back in third,so they don't take the fourth grade test then until they're in theory ready,but they only hold them back for 3 years and then they can go back with theirclass. So, their eighth grade reading scores are like abysmal.So, like the the fourth grade tests are inflated in a way cuz you're notallowing the low performers to test. It was kind of an interesting I hadn't Ihad not read about that, but I found a study that I was looking at. One of thereasons why they're seeing these great gains is if you hold back if you don'ttest the kids who aren't doing well, then your numbers are going to be great.>> And essentially, you can't hold a child back with a disability because>> Well, yeah. Well, they're not doing that.>> No. >> Yeah.>> Well, I mean I mean I just see is it the I wonder ifit's the same thing where Minnesota's now 20th.I think academically. >> fourth grade, not in eighth grade, but>> Yeah. >> Well, do you need more money? I mean doyou think >> [laughter]>> I mean at the at the end of the day, do you need more money? And if the answeris yes, then then let's have a proposal come to the board and say, "Hey, this iswhat we think. This is the gap. This is how much it is. This is what yourcapacity is available to tax the community." And then decide, "Is thissomething we want to move forward with?" Like it's like>> But I mean I think you you have to have some sort of data behind it if you'regoing to be asking for some more money. Otherwise, you're going to run into 2023again. >> but if we have nothing to react to thatat the moment, it sounds to me like things are fine. And and when I hearwe're just going to deploy one interventionist in the middle school,it's like is that fine? >> Can I just say that I am not as yoursuperintendent stating that things are fine.Um and to your your request for informationregarding umthe the schedule on levies and and what the levy limit sits at and when thatchanges uh I'll I'll I believe I've shared that, but I willshare it some more, uh and we will put it into the budget book, but this budgetbook till the nextiteration of update. I'll get it to you sooner,uh another schedule like that, but I think the bigger work is what you'vewhat you've identified, and that is what what areour needs with regard to teaching and learning, and and then we need toarticulate what the research and evidence-baseddata might say about cause and effect with regard to what we're proposing. Uhand we are on that trail. Uh I think this kind of came out a while ago, soum we are we are trying todo a deliberate process to set a condition, um andI don't want to speak too fast out of turn here, but one ofthe things I we just went through a bond levy for our middle schools, and I thinkwe need to take the upcoming school year to shape exactly what you're talkingabout, to bring you a proposal so you can react to that, and obviously soonerthan later. Um so I've been doing some work ontrying to plan that out timing-wise, uh so we can do some deep work on thatas well. So, uh I'm not saying everything is fine. We dohave needs, uh but I also want to be very careful about when we ask, and Iknow you do, too. Um what are we asking for, and what's the proof in thepudding, so to speak? >> I think one other question, Michelle, Imight not for tonight, but leave you with is just I think it's reallyinteresting that on the last page before page 55,is Minnetonka and Wayzata, who are the two two close to us in this other chart,they only have a 14% special ed rate, which is not like the other schools.Like we're we're 5% higher. And I just think it's interesting toknow why. Like that doesn't make sense to me. I feel like you should all bemore or less the same. And so, are they What are they doing inthat school district in tier one or tier two to helpbring down costs before you get to tier three? I think I mean, I'm curious tolearn about that, so not for tonight, butIt's an expensive category. All right, anything else? Okay.Um moving on to advisory committee assignments. So, in our packetum is the current list of all of our umcouncils and committees that the board is in is either mandated or invited toparticipate on. I just wanted to have a umpreliminary discussion about where people would want to be for next year.Maybe you want to be on the same thing. Maybe you're interested in a new area.Um so, maybe I'll just go over them really briefly andum we don't have to walk away here tonightwith a final, but what I ask is um if you're interested in moving to adifferent area, either let me or Superintendent Bowman know, and um if ifthere's someone in that role and we can only have one, we can figure out how tonegotiate that um as a group. But, um this is more to just go over where we'reat and then decide um for you to decide personally what you would be interestedin participating in. So, the American Indian parent advisory, um we do nothave a representative and none is requested and none is mandated, so thatone is fine. Um currently community ed, I sit on.Early childhood, I sit on. Um finance, Tony and Brian. Is thatcrack brain? That's right, right? >> You're on the finance>> You and you and Tony. Oh.>> No, it's just Well, you're not anymore. Just Tony. Okay.Um the GAC gifted committee, I'm on that. We currently have no one sittingon the multi-district collaborative, which is required, so someone um we willneed to get someone on that for this next school year. Special education,Kim. Teaching and learning, we currently have three. So Carly, Matt, and Paul.Wellness, we have Carly. Uh District 917, Kim, the high schoolleague Kim, Association of Metro School Districts Amber, and Lakeville ArenasCarly. Um and so I think we could do somebreakup here to make it a little more even amongst board members. UmDoes anybody have any thoughts right out of the gate of ones thatyou're you're like, I really want to stay in this one or I'm reallyinterested in moving to a different different area or>> Yeah, Kim, but I I'd like to stay in teaching and learning.>> Okay. >> Oh, I'm flexible to move if someone elsehas interest in teaching and learning.Um I've served on GAC and MBCC in the past.Um I've never done community ed or earlyeducation or so. >> Okay.>> Yeah, flexible. >> I'd I'd jump on the MDCC one,Multi-District Collaborative Advisory Council. >> I'd be more than willing to give upmoney. So, um >> Which which one is your>> Which one what? >> Which one do you most want to give up?>> Well, I think it's I mean I think they're all important, but I thinkI mean the community ed one I think is very They're all important, I shouldn'tsay. Community ed brings in a lot of people who are not connected to ourschools in other ways. So the committee is a lot of older adults in ourcommunity, which I think is they're really big ally for our district. So, Ithink it's important that people are going to these things regularly. Not notso much I mean, I learn a lot. I think everyone learns a lot when you go, butit's more out of appreciation for the people who are on the committee. So, Ithink whatever people are able to commit to, Ithink is what's what's the best. Um and those two mean alot. Community ed and early childhood mean>> How often? >> Almost monthly.>> And >> you shouldn't be on both of those.>> Yeah, and I was told like if you're on one, you're on both, but I don't thinkit has to be that way. Cuz they're they're the same budget line, right? But>> Split that up. >> Like Community Ed overseesum Early Childhood. But I think it could be split up.>> in Early Childhood. >> Oh, I mean if we're talking about 2027uh activities, I think it may be wise to pause for>> Well, we're talking about >> Well, so technically how the board hasdone it is >> I want to do the high I'll do thatMinnesota High School League liaison one.Wait, is that for the fall? >> have to do anything for that.>> Yeah, that one's really easy. You don't have to do anything.>> [laughter] >> Sign me UP FOR THAT. I CAN SIGN ON THAT.>> SHOULD WE go to the meeting? >> Yeah.>> [laughter] >> Like her many meetings, right?>> I'm sure the Lakeville Arenas board would be interested.>> Just like the first sign up. >> I'm sure the Lakeville Arenas boardwould may want like me on there.>> I'm happy to Well, the state hasI don't need to stay on that. I'm I'm flexible to rotate off of anything youwant to add me to. >> Okay, that'd be cool.>> Put me wherever. >> Maybe percolate.And if you're interested or willing to join another one or a different one, letme know. I mean, there's >> Can we just create maybe clearexpectations? Like Like if we are trying to more evenly divide,what is the expectation? That everybody try to be on two committees?>> Yes. I mean, that would be fair. And some meet way less than others, youknow? >> Yeah. Well, and I think it's also likean expectation if I can't come to one of the meetings that I were they'rescheduled, I try to find another board member to fill in for me cuz I thinkit's important that we have that if we're going to commit to be a presenceon the boards that we need to have a board member there.>> Yeah, every committee has a spot for, as you probably know, umschool board update. And so we're asked to come and present about what's goingon um at the board. So, okay, think about what two you'reinterested in being on. And typically, Brian, what I might understand is ourthe Lakeville board has assigned these in the summer so that it you stay forthe school year knowing that some board members are rotatingpotentially rotating off mid-year. So, it follows a>> They were done in January. >> We We have historically assigned inJanuary. I don't really >> But we didn't last year.>> think that >> We did.>> It was close. >> didn't switch anything last year.>> We didn't switch. Yeah. >> I've been told over and over it alwayshappens in the summer and has for like decades.>> Since I've been on the board I feel like I feel like since I've been on the boardwe've been talking about this in January.>> January. >> Okay, well we can just do it in Januarythen. >> But I don't actually think>> board members come generally in January. >> I think the reason>> has to do with the election cycle. >> The reason people I think the districtsuggested fall is that the first meeting is kind of a welcome meeting foreveryone on the committee and then you get to know each other rather than likehopping in mid-year. >> II personally feel like if we assign for fall then it it creates a more likecollaborative year and then if we have new board members rotating on we canjust fill in for that 6 months. >> They would like assume the role of theperson leaving. >> But what do others think?>> I like the I like the school board meetings. I'll go to that one.>> All right. >> I was on community ed and I liked it.Like I've served on that. >> Oh yeah, it's a good committee.>> Yeah. >> But you're saying fall assignment.>> Fall assignment. >> Are you saying What are you saying?>> I I've been told fall assignment is what the committees are asking for and whatthe district wants. >> Okay.>> Is the gifted advisory one where they learn about like how to use AI andincorporate that into their stuff or is this Is>> No, it's about gifted and gifted and gifted advisory council. So, studentswho are taking an ignite and discover and AP and>> Got it. >> those types of experiences.>> has come to the teaching and learning. >> It has.>> Mhm. And I mean it's it has and it's probablya continued discussion given. >> Yeah.>> Yeah. >> My god, I was just told that we normallydo this in January and I I feel like I was under the assumption we did itat the beginning of the school year, so but we're going to do it now.>> it's ideal that we do it in January. >> Okay.>> So everybody should send you a couple that they're interested in.>> Yeah. Yep. >> And then yeah.>> Did you ask Do you want to ask?>> No, I'll just be in touch. >> Okay, sounds good.Okay. >> All right.Um >> Was there also theum district leadership one?Or is that not have a board? >> think that's happening anymore, I think.>> be on that one. >> Or no, is there a district leadershipone? >> Yeah.>> That's a university >> Dick is um is a contractually requiredprofessional issues committee. Um I think you may be talking about uhwhether we're having um >> Under the union contract. Okay, sorry.Superintendent. >> Yeah, we we've had requests from EML tomeet with board members. Um so we were doing thatI think roughly on a quarterly basis. Um>> You mean meet and confer? >> No, meet and confer, yeah.>> Okay. >> Mhm.>> But the >> I think you're talking about somethingdifferent. >> The other one was likebuilding leads that came together and like I remember one of the meetings wekind of looked at some of the data across schools and talked about the kindof like what was happening. Just It was a shared or a district>> The district shared leadership >> yes. So um early on when we initiatedthat committee, um, we did have some board participation. It's not anadvisory. And so, what we were trying to do when we revamped all the advisoriesand we put together this handout is to make sure that we were being clear aboutwhat is an advisory, what's an internal work group. Um, and I think for theinternal work A lot of that stuff comes to the board through other mechanismsanyway. Um, and so because it wasn't required, we were really sticking to therequired list. So, we made a shift on that a couple of years ago. Um,I think Yeah. So, I think that's really whatwhen we We just wanted to have more clarity around where is it that we weare required to have board participation and make sure that we have that. So,Yes. >> Thank you.>> Yes, that did exist. >> You helped my brain tonight.>> But when you say advisory, like I want to make sure I understand thedefinition. Like are we Are we as a board member to attend and just observeor are they to engage and participate and provide direction and and provideinput and insights and here's what I want, here's what we should do. They'renot creating the agenda, but they're just sharing their point of view or arethey supposed to share the board's point of view? And and And are theseadvisories like just like do you guys actually control them and we're likeboard members are there just to like oh, we're here if you have questions. Cuzit's eventually it's going to come to us anyways. You know what I mean? So, I'mjust >> Well, it's helpfulI won't say that I don't participate. I don't I definitely don't direct thingsas a board member, especially since I'm one member, but um, I think what'shelpful is just to see what's going on in those councils or committees and thenyou're able to share [clears throat] that out with the board at the nextmeeting. So, I attended this is something, you know, with GAAP forinstance, they've made some changes or some of the things that we've talkedabout. So then you're sharing out to the board what when we have our boardreports, that's an opportunity to say, "This was talked about at this meeting."So, you can participate, but we're not operating in a>> So, so then I think I'd like to ask is which ones are the ones that arerequired required by the state. I think that they're listed here. And the onesthat are not required by the state, we should probably just recalibrate. Isthere a value of us attending those or are there others that we ought to beattending that we're not? Um and and again, the list that we have is the listthat we have. I'm not saying there's there ought to be more,but are there more that we're not thinking of?Because we're just going in as an advisory, like just to listen, thenare these ones that we want to go see? You know what I mean?>> These are all of them. >> These are all the ones that>> are no other groups. >> There are no other groups, okay.>> Right. >> No, I know.>> Okay. >> you can make up>> No, no, no, no. We don't need more. >> But I'll just say advisory uh typically,and I can only speak to past board uh interaction was those were veryrelational opportunities for board members to uminteract with different public constituents.>> It's good to show our face, interact with people who are who are serving ourdistrict. >> Well, we just fair, and I'm not sayingthat we shouldn't, but if we but let's tackle the ones that are required first.And then, those who want to attend the non-required onescan. Or because not every board member may want to go attend advisory meetings.They because if the intent is to learn more about it, they can choose togo learn about it on their own way or their own pathway or or whatever it maybe. I just I I just want to make sure that uh we're not doing something justbecause it's always been before. We just let's just make sure that we understandthe ROI in the in the the value that's associated with it.>> Well, and we are being requested, whether it's I mean, the mandatory ones,yes, but the other ones except for the American Indian Parent Advisory, we arebeing requested to attend by the district staff and um often the thecommunity members who are chairing the committee.>> But but then but why? Why are they requesting? Like what is it that they'reneeding from a board member to share with them that uh that that anadmin person could not? >> So,we are elected by the community. Like we're community elected representatives.And so, when we go to an advisory council that's made up of communitymembers, we're their voice on this part. We're supposed to share inour board report, this is what was discussed by the the council and thepeople on that council and we're supposed to share it with the rest ofthe board. >> But does that mean that you're going toshare that? >> Well,>> They But they serve a different purpose. They're district administrators. Theywork for the district. We're elected by the public.>> Yes. And as >> way I understand it.>> Which is which is fair and and and that point of view is is your right to have,but as an elected official, my point of view could be different. And so, if Iwant if I as an elected official, I you know, if I choose not to go to thoseadvisory non-required events, and if I want to be on the boarduh and and share my point of view and vote on things like that, that that'sthat's the role that I choose to play. So, um>> Yeah, we can't force board members to be on any of them, right? We do have tofill some of them. So, I think some peopleSome people will just step up and fill, right? UmI think I think it's an opportunity for board members to be more educated aboutwhat we're doing, right? >> Yeah.>> And to interact with people that we often don't in our like most of thecommittees I'm on, it's not people I would normally talk to. Young families,like our early elementary, older adults. Um and so, this is my opportunity to>> your preference. >> It's also our constituents that they'reasking us to >> And that's one pathway for you to talkto your constituents. That doesn't mean that I can't talk to constituents in myother in my own other pathway. So, I just want to be mindful that like, "Hey,while these advisory councils are fine and and we have no authority there,we're there to listen and hear what's going on in in that respective area, butwe should ought to be getting those recaps and updates anyways from oursuperintendent." And and so >> But I hear you hear you saying you donot want to you do not want to do this. >> No, I'm not saying I don't want to dothis. I am saying I I understand that, but I want to saythat we this is one of those where as a school board elected officialthe elected official should have the autonomy to decide how they want toengage with the community. And advisory committees areone pathway. The and and non-advisory committees areanother. That's all. >> How about that? How about this, Brian?We can't I'm not going to We're not going to be like, "You have to go tothose." >> I have to finance.>> But if you sign up for one, the expectation is you attend.>> I agree. >> So, if you're not able if you're notable to do that, then let someone else go because I think there'sthere are there are gaps here, right? Wherewhere people are listed at times and there's no no one showing up. And sothat's just not a good look for the board.So, I think if you can't do it or can't commit to it, that's fine. We're notgoing to force you, but please only sign up if you actually want to be part ofit. >> And and my question is thenwhat are they needing from a board member that they can't getfrom an email to the chair, an email to the board, a conversation with thesuperintendent, and a recap to be presented to to be provided to thesuperintendent and shared to the rest of the board? And so where's the gap?>> I feel like we're on a repeat. So, I want to serve>> No, we don't need to go through and raise hands right now.>> But but it's important for us to know going into assignments, like perhapsjust set a date by which >> Yeah, if I don't hear from people, I'lljust assume you're not you don't want to sign up, and that's fine.Right? And the people who do will. >> cover these so that we don't have somecommittees or councils that are not covered in some that are.>> Right. Yep. >> So.>> Yeah, that's it. Okay.All right, moving into goal setting. Um so I'll turn over to you in a minute,Michael, but um in conversation with um Oh, thank you for being here, cabinetmembers. I didn't realize everyone was going to leave.>> You're welcome. >> [laughter]>> But um>> I'm here about expectations. >> I know the board has discussed wantingto set goals um for this upcoming school year.And as well as um Michael's been interested in that. So what I askedasked Michael to do was to prepare a draft set of goals uh for him, whichtranslate then to the school district goalsuh for us to react to um in discussion. And so I think that'swhat Michael's going to hand out here in a moment. UmI think what this is really based on is the continued work of this board. Soum the strategic plan that we are we're working off ofum from the the data and metrics that we'veasked and the goals that we've set um accordingly with those umwith those metrics um and other priorities that the boardhas identified. And so I think it's important like we don't just completelyshift gears to a whole new set of things cuz we're working on building right overtime strength in these key areas. So I think that's what Michael you'vedeveloped. Um and can I just let you go through it andthen people can react based on that? >> Yes, thank you for>> Okay. >> Sure. So I printed cuz I didn't know whowould have a digital device and who would not. >> Thanks.>> Is this an open session or closed session?>> This is an open session. We're not evaluating.>> Yeah, it's just old. >> Yeah.>> Did everybody get a copy? Amber, did you >> I can open mine on my email.>> Okay. So,just as the board chair said, my thinking on this task wasum build on where we areuh as a school system and what the board is looking to do. So, you know, I triedto write a purpose statement so that we couldstay focused on that uh which, you know,I feel is we should not go off on some othertangent. We should stay and build on what we've been working on together. So,um we have the QDR or QBR. We've used thoseterms interchangeably. I think we've landed on QDR cuz it's data-focused.Um we have our op plan, we have ourstrategic plan, and all those are nested together. Uh we we do not liketry to go down different tracks with that. Umso, that's what I tried to do here and I think the overall objective isfour or five goals that are strategic level and we can talk to what the datasets are. Um and that's what I wrote in here. So,if you just start with the first goal, student achievement, readiness, andsystem performance, I think that is first and should be first.Um and what I'm trying to articulate hereis um is work on our instructional systemswith a focus on student achievement, student growth. I think graduationoutcomes and readiness for post-secondary success. Those are allthe things that I have noted in the conversations that we've had. And thenum to talk about metrics um MCAs and MCAs both for uhum reading proficiency, math proficiency, growth trends. And then weuse FAST Bridge as a local assessment growth indicator. So all those thingsare already built and it's saying, "Okay, are these the right umgrowth metrics to focus on?" I think we've already kind of settled on that.And then um The second goal is student experienceand engagement. And that's more tied to um the strategic plan and the desireddaily experiences. But with some metrics, if you go down and look at whatI'm recommending as metrics is chronic absenteeism rates, average dailyattendance rates. These are all things we've already kind of talked about, Ithink. Um any major behavior incidents, which the implied task there is to howdo you data collect on that and report, and out-of-school suspension rates isall indicators. >> Can I can I pause that just for asecond? Um II like these metrics, uh but I'm not so sureon the attendance one where some of these metrics aren't within your controlto to like like this. >> Well, I'm responsible for everything theschool district does or fails to do. Well, that's the approach I take.>> I understand, but is it but if if a parent or a student chooseschooses not to attend school and the standard protocols is their phonecalls and whatever may be, an unfavorable chronicabsenteeism rate isn't one that that>> say if it's on scale in your district you got a problem and your leadershipsuperintendent probably should be shown the door.>> I think the question what you're getting to is like well what do you do toaddress it? >> you do what do you yeah.>> And I think that's where you can have systems.>> Well it's corrective action are the systems in place?If all those things are working from my level down then those numbers should bethey're they're not going to be zero. >> Right.>> They if there's like a growth trend there>> Right. >> then you ought to be saying>> What are you doing? >> superintendentwhy are why is that happening and if it's like 50% I mean>> Yeah. Well that's what in Mississippi they're focusing on absenteeism as beinga serious issue and addressing that by contacts between the district staff andthe parents. >> Yeah.>> That's the kids that are absent. >> I mean>> So you can put additional steps in place.>> And I think like being married to someone that does this kind of work Ithink when school districts are doing this well which I think we're in thatcamp they're monitoring these things in in its relation to student performanceand they're catching students before it becomes chronic. And so it's a lot of ifyou have the systems in place from the top up it it really works. Sorry Paul Ididn't mean to cut >> Yeah no and and I just wanted to sayMichael I think you just nailed it with the comment you made.As the leader of the whole shebang your your responsibility is to find waysto take chaos and turn it into results and if absenteeism is chaosthen it's your job to turn it into some kind of positive result whatever that>> As long as you don't ask me to turn water into wine I'll keep going.>> Well that makes I guess that makes sense. I mean if you're thesuperintendent and and and that is a metric you want I guess I was looking atit through the lens of you can't control if a child comes to school or not if theparent takes them on vacation. [clears throat] Like you don't have thatchoice and so you're tying it You're tying a metricwhere the kid uh to a metric that you don't have anycontrol over. Whereas, I mean, I guess you could make a uh a rule that says,you know, every class that you attend, you get 10 points. And and And so, ifyou're going to miss class, you're going to you're going to We're going to dockyou 10 points. And that that kind of it forces, uh you know,>> But there I mean, I think we're talking about There's two different thingsbetween chronic absenteeism leading to bad grades or a kid who justcan can is still proficient and is still hitting all the benchmarks, but isdoesn't have to go to class all the time. And I don't know that we have thedata We haven't connected the two dots in ourdata yet to determine like, okay, what percent of our chronic absenteeism arerelating to kids who are failing one or more classes.>> Where are Where are we going to get data from?>> about that, yeah. >> That major behavioral incident one?Um >> We'll get it from Infinite Campus.>> Yeah, there's a guy Who's the guy that came?>> Jamie. >> Yeah, he said they were going to do somesort of data assessment. >> Over the summer they are.>> Over the summer, okay. Sorry, go ahead. I thought that's theone that I that I just wanted to say, "Hey, okay, things in your control are>> Under goal three, we're talking about talent optimization and the um that'sgeared toward workforce and workforce stability, licensed staff retention,administrator retention. Um what's our vacancy fill rates, hardfill position fill rates, which is really all the staffing things that wedo. And um I think those are in line with uh our operations plan andand how we are uh doing data collection on that. And to articulate that as a asa goal, you want What I'll do is I'll I'll I'llif if we're okay with this layout, is I would I would come backwith a Okay, here's what I think the benchmark ought to be.Um and then you can say, "Well, you know, if chronic absenteeism isyou know, if I say it's if it's anything over 3%, you know, that's that's ano-go." You might say, "No, it needs to be at 1%." Or, you know, we canhave that discussion. So, I I what I wanted to do here is justestablish that these metrics and these goals, and I think I have four of them.Um, you know, if we want to add goals, I guess we can have that conversation.The last one is operational stewardship, financial management, strategicexecution. So, um, you know, we've talked a lot. Obviously, tonight wetalked about the FY 27 budget. So, um, recommended metrics are progress towarda greater than or equal to 10% unassigned fund balance, structuraldeficit management trend to make sure that I'm dealing with that, forecastingaccuracy. So, that's, you know, am I plus or minus budget to budget on, youknow, is it 1%? Is it 2%? Uh, corrective action responses, am I timely and givingyou the information you need so any decisions that have to be made don'taren't surprises. Um, and then operational effect- effectiveness,facilities utilization maintained within the district target of range 83 to 87%.We've talked a lot about that. Our goal is to be at 85%.So, I'm just using all the things that we've already um, articulated with that.With regard to strategic execution, strategic and operational plan executiongreater than or equal to 90%. What does that mean on the QDR and our op plan? Wehave I I think I shared with you in the lastuh, evaluation our op plan and how that's laid out. And so, there's a lotof tasks in there that are action uh, oriented on our strategic plan. What I'msaying is that we're we're executing at 90% or better interms of closing those out. Um, that one might be a little difficult toassimilate. Annual operational plan milestone completions and board priorityimplementation progress. So, whatever your priorities are that I am on task toto do those uh and implement those. One of the things we've talked about, whichI consider to be um maybe not a s- formally stated goal, but talking aboutacademics and doing a deliberate planning process in order to make adecision around a needs assessment for financial wherewithal and any potentialfuture levies. That would be an example of you've given me that task and I amum I am working toward that. And then I just summarize them again, recommendedcore metrics goal 1 2 3 4, and then our next steps would be toif you're good with this framework, you want refinements to it, I get therefinements and come back and present you with uh what I think maybe thebaselines ought to be for each of those or what the goals ought to be by ametric uh on each of those. >> I think something I'd like to propose,Michael, just before we launch into conversation is some of them I thinkmake sense to have a number, like 3%, whatever.>> Mhm. >> But I do appreciate on some of themwhere you've listed like proficiency trends or reductionI forget the wording, but I think it's hard to create a number attimes, but if we we want to see either increasing or decreasing depending uponthe item. And if that's the trend that we're seeing, that's what we want.>> Yeah. >> We're not I mean, not necessarily likeeven if things aren't moving in the direction that you would like them togo. Like I always appreciate the reflection on that and how are youadjusting like our district plan to to account to account for that, right?Like thought process behind it and then a plan in place to>> Well, I I think I should have to alibi uh any of these metrics, whether they'retrend metrics or they're, you know, I I got to 9.9, I didn't make 10.>> Right. Yeah. >> Yeah.>> Right. >> And I'll just be candid with wherethings land. Uh I'll I'll work my butt off to accomplish those, but you know, Ithink in the end I have to lead in a way that creates theconditions fromthe district office to the classroom that are positive and can move us, youknow, as a as an organization toward those goals.Um I I feel like I can do that. I feelconfident I can do that. Um and I you know, I worked with otherpeople to shape these, but these have beentwo years of talking about what's going on in the district and I've tried tocodify those here and capture those here and stay on plan with what we've beendoing now for the past two years or at least since I came back.Um And and I thinkthat this gives us our best opportunity at actually accomplishing that.>> Kim, and >> Um before we start discussion on this, II'm just trying to um figure out what our expectations are with this. So, umdo we take this, mull over it a little bit,process, and then send any like questions or adjustments to Michael?Like is that how you want us to to frame this? Cuz I mean we could we could talkabout this for a long time. >> Yeah, I mean I think maybe it basedepends on the reception tonight. If people feelexcited and comfortable with it, we might not need that, but if people needthat processing time, that's fine, too. So,but I think the goal is to take this and and set the benchmarks after weafter we get to a comfortable place, which could happen after this meetingimmediately or >> Okay. I just wasn't sure like what youwere expecting, so. >> Matt.>> Um a couple questions. One,just from a you know, on the metrics and the studentgrowth local assessment growth indicators. Iknow we have Fast Bridge and then obviously MCA the one time a year.We I would love to see something where wehave our common assessments more widely implementedat the end of this next year. Cuz I feel that that's a more reliablelocal assessment than Fast Bridge because we don't teach to Fast Bridge.We don't teach to the MCAs well, we kind of teach the MCAs, butyou know, cuz the the common assessments then wouldactually provide and something where the board can actually see it on ourdashboard. So then we can see how our students areactually doing on the on the curriculum that we're teaching them, you know, andI know that that's in process. But I think that'd be a great goal toget that even further down the road in the next year.>> Are you thinking like then like let's say I forget the classthat did the presentations with the scheduling?I forget what class that >> It's an English class.>> Yeah, 10th grade English. >> So that was a common assessment, right?Between North and South. So that's like the teacher giving a grade which willthen influence their overall grade for that class. So are we interested inseeing like grades? You know what I mean? It's notlike we're going to get like a test score in a lot of cases cuz it's projectbased. >> Well, you yeah, I mean there'd have tobe some a consistent rubric and you know, set this is how we're analyzingthis. For something like that for math and science you might get a test score,right? On a on a unit test or something like that. Like this is what we've beendoing for the past month and we're getting a score on it, right? So thenyou can see okay, how are students actually learning what we want them tolearn, right? Um cuz uh like the uh Yeah, I mean it's going to be verysubjective obviously when you get to the 10th grade English thing about howyou're doing your schedules. I mean you walked around the room and listened todifferent students present and some were very refined and some maybe not so much.Um Yeah.>> So, is there also a goal there around like creating more consistency in thesystem? >> Well, I think that's happening.Um but I think this is part of that process, too.>> that will come of that. >> Yeah, I mean that's part of the process.So, then you can assess it cuz I meanfour-year graduation rate and grades is great, but I think we all saw atgraduation, I mean, 160 of the 410 kids were at a 3.7 or higher, you know?>> Well, that's going to change. >> Well, that's what we need.>> That will change significantly. >> Well, I think Emily and I spoke aboutit, and it's not going to It's They're still going to be at like a 3.2, youknow, even if you remove the weighted grades. It didn't It didn't It didn'tchange it as much as I thought it would. >> I also>> weighted side. >> If we're going to discuss graduationrates, like I If we're going to be equitable in how we look at graduation,I think we should look at four and six years,um just because the students that take a different pathway and take some longerto graduate doesn't mean they didn't attain the goal, they just did it in adifferent time frame. Um and we have several several students,lots of different student populations that that do that, so.>> Yeah, I'm just thinking on the common assessments, it's something thatwe have more control over. >> How would youlike think I'm thinking about like the high school level or even like middleschool, there's going to be hundreds of common assessments, right?per term. So, how How would the board like to receive that information?>> Well, you have >> Cuz I like to be more up here, I guess.So, I'm trying to think like How do you drill down to see every sixthgrade test? >> right? Math, science, whatever. Youknow, they'd have a unit test. >> Right.>> And how many kids are >> There's probably like 10 units per term.>> So, for this term, how many kids are you meeting proficiency on the commonassessments? Right? You know, per grade, per school.And then the district I mean, I don't know that we'd have access to perclassroom, but the district should be analyzing that per classroom, right? So,we can find best practices that are achieving the best results and try toreplicate it across the district. >> Like the teaching and learning shouldbe. >> But the metric that you would But themetric that you would be targeting would be whatever that aggregate metric it is.How he gets there is at his discretion. >> Right.>> And so, >> Yeah.>> you're >> Correct.>> So, there there are two things we we we've got. We've gotmetrics that do we agree with? What I'm sorry. What what's the metric that wewant to track or we want to see that we agree with? How he gets there is at hisdiscretion. And then the second one is are thereuh school district initiatives that we want him to focus on and try toaccomplish within that school year. And so, cuz I think they're While they maybe related, but one could be we want to be able to implement seventh hour inhigh school. I'm just making it up. Seventh hour in high school. That that'san initiative. It's not really a metric. And so, um this is very metric focused,which is fine. And and we give you the >> for you, sir.>> I appreciate that. [laughter] Uh but there but there are things wherewhere I would like more I would like more career-orientedclasses in high school that the kids can choose from, you know. Anduh But that that's an initiative. And soso, I I just want to make sure that we're we're aligned on what what we'retrying to solve here. Sure. Cuz what you're asking for, I think, is more ofan initiative, which might roll up into a metric at one of these levels.>> Yeah. It seems like one of our like main concerns as a board has been studentperformance. And if and if we want that to be the goal, thenwe should let Bowman try to get We're not going to see that in a year,necessarily, right? So, maybe it's through common assessments, maybe it'sthrough some other >> Well, well, in common assessments again,it's just the it's just an indicator, right? It's it's a more reliableassessment of where our students are at than MCs or FastBridge.Um You know, if done properly, right? Because it's assessing on what are whatthe teachers are actually teaching them in the classroom. Because right now it'shard to grade our students on the MCAs and say, I mean you hear the criticismonly you know, 50% of the kids are proficientand it's like, well, you know, that's a test that they're notmotivated to take because they don't get any grade for it and they don't studyfor the test. So, if we're actually having a consistent curriculum,consistent common assessment in each each category or class across thedistrict, then we can see like, okay, how are the students doing in thiscertain >> So, what metric do you want to see atthe end? >> I think that's going to be I thinkthat's going to be hard to nail down because it's going to look differentfrom like middle school and then high school where they take different classesand then we have kids that are doing PSEO.>> Let the superintendent figure that out. What metric What metric do you want tosee for you to feel comfortable our school is moving in the right directionacademically? >> Well, I mean, I want to know how ourstudents are doing on the material we're testing them consistently across thedistrict. >> I think it boils down to proficiency. Imean, you can have grade inflation and have high grade points. I'm beingcynical now, Michael, so bear with me. You can have teachers who don't want todeal with students, so they pass them on and they should have kept them back.All of those things create high numbers for grade point and graduation rates,but that doesn't necessarily mean that somebody's proficientin math or or reading or you know, go down the list, whatever whatever youwant to use. I I was reading and I don't know if anybody elsecaught this, but California in California, the professorsat the state schools are saying they've got students coming in and they'rehaving to teach them middle school mathand what they're saying is is that the California schools are just pushingthese students through and by the time they go to college and even if theydon't go to college, let's say they want to be a plumber cuz they cuz I'mabsolutely fine with that. You still have to calculate how long a pipe is,right? Um so so [clears throat] the point is is thatcollege professors in California at state schools are starting to sound analarm and saying your whole state school system, public school system is blowingup numbers and everybody thinks we're doing great and I'm getting these kidsin school in in college and I've got to teach them middle school math.>> So are you saying these proficiency numbers are right on?>> I I'm saying the proficiency numbers are needed.>> Yeah. >> You Somebody just asked the question,what's important? [clears throat] >> Yeah, I think these are exactly whatyou're saying. >> Yes, I think proficiency is extremelyimportant. >> the MCA reading and the MCA mathproficiency score >> That's a different question, right?>> Does that meet your expectation? If the answer is no, then>> It's too much of a It's too much of a lagging indicator.>> Fast Bridge is for you? Three times a year?>> Yeah, I mean, by the time you find out, right? And and it's not>> level. At the We're asking him to drive numbers upat the system. >> But Michael>> And he can do that, in my opinion. >> But again, so>> At the At the test level.>> So they're changing curriculum, right? Aligning curriculum with the benchmarks,which aligns with the MCAs. >> Yeah.>> So if we're doing that, you know, across the system with consistency, we'realready going to have the data, right? The common assessments are already beingbuilt in. >> Mhm.>> I just want I think the board should know that. Like, okay, how are we doing?So then MCAs is not a shock. >> So you're forecasting your yourforecasting that your MCAs are going to be good.>> It's more I don't even know if it's a leading indicator, but>> I'll just say this about common assessments, if I may. Umthe build process is not mature by any state of theimagination. Uh we are diligently working on that, but uhif if it's something as simple as I want 50% of the courses across the schoolsystem to have common assessments that are vetted, um okay.Um if it's I want data from thefrom from those umbrought to the board, um that might be a little harder to do, might be on asmaller scale. I don't know, but um >> That's what I was trying to understandit. >> kind of where we are cuz I had toreconstruct the SBR process, um and and common assessment builds are part ofthat, but um it's a deliberate process. Umso I'll just throw that out there. I I'll do what you want me to do, uh butcan't squeeze blood out of a turnip as we are right now.>> But that's I think that's what I was trying to understand earlier. It's likepart of this there's sys- systems level work happening. And is part of our jobas a board to understand what's fidelity at this point in terms of what is beingrolled out and how is it actually shaping out in theschools as we want it to versus when the data may lag behind that in the comingcouple of years. Um but I also think if you're I think your point is a good onethat we often don't feel like MCAs are capturing how our students are actuallydoing. So perhaps an idea is just for a question for Tracy or umSuperintendent Bowman, maybe you have an idea, but is there anything else that wecan use as more of a an indicator? >> I would say FastBridge because I mean, Idon't think it's my job as a board memberto know like what Johnny got on his second quarter science exam.>> [laughter] >> That happened like>> I don't think we're he's asking >> I don't think we need that level ofWell, those are common assessments. >> as a parent, you know, the theFastBridge just came out. We got the email a couple like last week.And I look at my kids' grades.I don't even know what they mean. M and we're in elementary.The FastBridge scores I am hyper looking at because it tells me how is my kidperforming to other peers in Lakeville, but other kids across the country.And that tells me are we on track or not? And while I while I think commonassessments are really important and those can drive towards good scores onthese standardized tests, I just think we have to pick like we have to know that the commonassessment work has to happen in order to drive up these numbers.>> Well, I mean we we did see, you know, Shawn Murphy came in here and spoke amonth ago. >> And Kim Booty>> And was and Kim Booty, I mean, highly in favor of common assessments. We're notthe only district that's pushing for it, either.Other districts have it. >> pushing against it at all.>> I just I mean, I think we're throwing darts asboard members if we don't have more reliable data on the academic side.I mean, FastBridge, what do they call it? It's ait's a different kind of assessment. Uh I'm blanking on the name of it.>> It's a growth indicator. >> Yeah, I mean, but it's not like, "Hey,we're testing you on what you're learning, right?"Um cuz again, are we teaching to theFastBridge? You know, are we teaching that same material in our classrooms?And then, does FastBridge even even test beyond ninth grade in FastBridge?>> kind of suggesting then we don't have these tests?>> I mean, it's what we have right now. >> that's like what we've set as our maingoals. >> Cuz that's all we have. And that's whyI'm saying I'd like to see the common assessments move forward, you know?>> So, what what can't we common assessment.>> Correct. >> Which again I feel like is tootoo detailed and dialed down into like classroom level that's going to look sodifferent at secondary levels when they're taking multiple classes. Likethen you're only pulling data from like elementary because they're doingreading. >> Can I do this just to maybeI don't know what it's not expedited. It'sthere it's a great debate but I hearMatt saying get a metric in there on commonassessment. Yes? >> Yeah, I mean I think you guys arealready doing the work, right? >> So I will come back to you with aproposal on what that should look like andmaybe we can debate that cuz you know, I want to make sure that I'mnot putting my teaching and learning folks into a position theyYeah. >> But I think it's important. I thinkyou're talking about you want to see I mean, what I'm hearing you say is youwant to see a common assessment metric where we're tracking studentperformance. What I'm hearing you say is I think we should make a goal on getting20% of our assessments to be common and then increase it.>> Yeah, but within that you could also you could also do similar alignment. Youcould do both actually. >> It won't be 100%, right? I mean and youknow that in year one, right? Like that's what I I think I'm likewe're not going to have common assessments for everything this academicyear. So are you comfortable with like a smallamount? >> I mean, this is what we have right now.We have FastBridge and MCAs, right? And that's why we set our goals on thosenumbers last year cuz that's all we had, right?>> CAPT too. >> Butyou know, we heard the >> Which is second>> come in again and they're saying, well, yeah, we're moving that way. We're we'regetting alignment in the curriculum and working on these>> But I think it might take like 5 years to fully get there. So, are youcomfortable with like a metric that would say X percent?>> Yeah, I would love to know why it's going to take 5 years, but>> I That's I made that number up. >> Yeah, well, I mean, you know, I wouldlove to know why it's going to take 2 years or 3 years.>> It's a complex thing to get things vetted.>> Yeah, but I'm I'm curious cuz I think Shawn Murphy may have been a little bitmore optimistic and maybe it's just on the secondary level with gettingtheir common assessments in place. >> It's different at secondary than it isin elementary. >> Yeah.>> I think it's but when you're looking at the nuance ofthe data, like I understand like how many different things are captured withthe CAPT testing, phonics, um, you know, all the differentcomponents of what they're missing for the the phonemes. And so then it's notonly like getting them to take the test, then seeing the data that we get, andthen providing an intervention that's going to help the students makeprogress on that. So, there are several steps in this process, and just becausewe start CAPT testing and we know where students are at, we have to know what todo with that data, and then we have to have the intervention in place to beable to accommodate for that. And we don't even have all the interventionsbuilt yet. So, yeah, I'd say it's probably a five-step process orfive-year process because we've got to do all these other things first, andthen we've got to have the money to have the interventions in place and teachers.>> just get the data first. >> Yeah.>> So, I mean, Michael, I think Michael said he can come to us with something.I mean, my I appreciated this document. >> I've not seen it until today. I feellike if all of these things were either improved or reduced based on the thing,we would be in a really great We would be making great movement. And so I thinkwhile I think we can cherry-pick and add things and we should if there's criticalthings, I'm not um, I also want to be cognizant of likewe have to we can't have everything beyond this document cuz otherwisenothing will get accomplished. Brian to do once we>> have have >> Yeah, but you like it personal, yeah.>> Um, >> I would have to sing than much of>> So, I'm going to throw an idea out here cuz IAnd the reason for that is cuz we're going through some uh calibrationexercises at at at my work.Um as a leader of anof a respective business unit or department, uh I'd love to be able toI want to put some sort of incentive tied to something like this. And so,with the executive team and the superintendent, I want to addsome sort of uh incentive bonus structure uh in in something like that.So, that's that's my I don't have a I don't have a specific dollar amount or apercentage, but while it isa job, it is your salary, but these are metric-driven initiatives. And so,if there's appetite within the board, I don't know when is an appropriate timeto to discuss can an incentive bonus structure be tiedto annual goals and the executive team to ensure that there's alignment and auh uhyou know, a a drive towards these metrics.>> Not if the metrics are questionable. I mean, we we were just debating MCAP>> So, we we have to align on whatever the goals are and and figure out how we getthere, but uh I know and I don't know financially how that would how thatwould work, but that is a direction that I'd like to go.>> I think my only challenge with that, and I'd like to learn if other districts dothat, and I mean, I like >> And they may not. I don't think theyare. >> And not that we have to do what they do.>> Yeah. >> At least in higher ed, that would bevery uncommon. Either you do do it or you're not here anymore is theincentive. Umbecause there isn't just like extra money to And and then in a system likethis, a lot of the yes, we need thesuperintendent working at a higher level, but we need the kindergartenteacher, too. And to to the two from um one getting incentivized throughmoney and the other not I think is very >> contracts. They're different>> I realize that. I realize that. >> in public business where>> Right. >> our private businesses we've got folksthat don't get bonuses. They don't get incentives. But when you've got seniorleaders that are responsible for operating, managing, and deliveringon the results of a $250 million $300 million operationwhat that this this isn't a very it's not something that would be anoutlier. So, but maybe in public education>> I think we might be a long way from evaluating ifif Correct me if I'm wrong, Michael, wherewe could effectively evaluate that for every staff member at the cabinet level.>> I mean, it'd have to be it be contractual, too. You know, that'd bethe challenge. So, you'd have to do it at the time that you're renewingcontracts or updating contracts. UmYeah. I mean, it's it's interesting. >> why can't we just say, "Hey, we're goingto add a cuz we're not changing their existingcontract. We're just saying if you're going to meet these metrics, guess what?We're going to provide an incentive structure.">> Because then you could you could account for it in your budget, though. Likewe're going to have to have X amount of dollars to hit bonuses available forbonuses if they >> Like I'll be you know, other districtsthat do anything like this? >> Um I'm not aware of a contract that'sstructured like that. I think part of it has to do I don't know if asuperintendent would want to take that. I would just um>> Yeah. I don't know.>> Well, I >> I I understand what you're sayingbecause >> The problem the problem becomes herehere's one of the things and and I think it's a it's a legitimate uh it would bein my view and I'll just make it my view a legitimate concern of a superintendentum toin in pay structure, not outpacing what therest of the organization is operating at.Um I understand the the uh value ofincentive. Um but I think in an organization likepublic education that is got a lot of uh labor unions,I I would not as a superintendent want todo that. Um but I'm maybe an anomaly because I alsodon't take any any pay increases. Um I didn't do thatin my contract. Um but that's that's avalue judgment that I take because I've watchednews reports aboutsuperintendents getting percentage raises higher than, say, the teachers'union. And I think that's bad optics.Um the other challenge is uhI think just what Matt said that, you know, during the contract negotiationprocess is when you have to set that. Um and people might balk at it at the nextechelon below, like at at an executive level they might say, "Well, thatdoesn't work in the system. I don't want to be advantaged in any particular waywith that." But um others might have a different opinion on that. And and Iwould respect that. I just think um an incentive structure like that wouldbe very difficult in in this environment to from an optics perspective. Andthat's just my candid response to that. >> So, Michael, if if we take an incentiveand move it aside, >> Yeah.>> and Brian, I know it's done in private business all the time, and it's verymotivating, by the way. Very motivating in private business.Um you there's still an you still have aneconomic lever with merit increases because it correct me if I'm wrong. Idon't know I don't know if there's a gridfor the executive staff not not union but the executive staff but I'm I'massuming you have the ability to say you get a 2% raise you get a 5% raiseum because you're you know >> I think it's baked in your contractisn't it? >> Well, there's there's contracts thathave that and then there's umuh I I've worked in two different systems.One system when I was in St. Paul it was a three-year contract for and I'mtalking about the executive staff level and it was aa set percentage year over year and you signed it out line and that's that.Um >> Couple of>> I've been in other districts where what theyour pay setting collective bargaining agreement becomesthe percentage change that you have for your non-affiliates and your and andwhatever other structures you have and they stay they stay on pace there.Um that's you know again a fairness thingum because you then you get into theconversation around well they're getting more percent increaseuh than the majority of your of your team.>> you see it in in in private enterprises. I mean I think Travis Kelsey gets like10 touchdowns he gets like a million dollars or something like that.>> I'm not saying you get a million but it's like there'swhen you've got individuals in leadership capacity>> Mhm. >> generally there's an incentive structurethat's tied to it. >> So you're saying what the>> in the public sector Brian. >> That's not true and>> In the public sector it's not true. I will tell you too in the military it'sit's very I don't care if you got four stars or or 10 stars there's a a andthere's a it's there's a structure to it and umyou know, I would tell you that the commander of CENTCOM is probablydoing more than a lot of Fortune 500company CEOs ain't getting paid anywhere near that.Um and that's because it's it's paid through government and tax dollars and Ithink you have to take that into account too where private enterprise cangenerate all kinds of revenue for a vast uh set of differences and the limitingfactor I think um for public entities is it's we're tax driven and publiceducation in particular is 100% tax driven.We got no other revenue source we can go to so I think you have to be verycareful about um that kind of structure. While Iunderstand from a principal perspective, I fully understand it um but I I thinkthat the fact that the dollars come from tax revenue,we have to just have a different perspective on that.>> And then also I appreciate that some people aremotivated by bonuses or whatever they're calledin private sector and there's no value judgment on thisbut I think we also have to appreciate people who go into professions like thisoperate with a different different mentality at times. So, it's verymission driven. You know, you hear like the phrase likeno one goes into teaching to get rich, right?Um they're not doing they're not like horrible off, right? But But if yourgoal is to make money and to to make as much money as you can, you're probablynot going to join public education. You're not going to join the Universityof Minnesota. AndI am driven diff I I don't get incentives. That's not why Ido good work. It's about some It's about this other kind of I don't know what itis, but I think people are just different and Ithink we have to figure out what incentivizes people and it's amazing tohear you give and I'm not trying to I think contracts are important and weneed strong contracts, but you hear aboutteachers, you know, getting a potluck catered by the PTO and that is like oneof the most biggest morale and incentive boosters for them and not to say thatshould shouldn't get more money, but I I think>> I I get that. >> we're oversimplifying humans desire toto want to do good work. >> potluck day.>> I I I get that. I understand that. Uh if you if you want to be comparableto compensation to other districts, you know, I think Wayzata>> We are comparable. >> I know, but Wayzata superintendent isgetting paid 280, 285 or I think 295. I'll I'll have to double check, but it's>> The new contract probably. >> yes, 280, 295. That's 295,000. That'swhat they're getting paid. That individual is getting paid. Uh for acomparable district like like you just shared earlier whenwe went through the budget. I'm not saying thatuh the base salary is that plus they get incentive. There might be things in thefuture where what if the salary is lower? Maybe it is 250 and then you addthe incentive on top of that. But again, that's if the board has alignment ondoes incentives drive behavior? Is there added kind of bonus for meeting themetrics? And in in part of being the leader {slash} CEO {slash} you know, thewhat that just that's part of the structure andSo, I'm throwing it out there. >> Yeah.>> Sounds like there is >> Well>> lots of appetite towards this endeavor. >> I'll only add that this year was thefirst year at the at the VA. >> Yeah.>> We we have had like you get 1% of your salary if you meet certain metrics, buteverybody has been in that this is the first year that there was differentpercentages based on your supervisory level and I think that fell very flatwith the staff That like it's already based on your salary andnow people who make more get higher percentages.And >> Well, that's that's like standard incorporate America. >> But that's what I'm saying. That's whatI'm saying. That's a different to Amber's point,Brian. Like I did not go and work in the VA because I want to make the most moneyI possibly can. >> And it's not it's not designed to make>> It's a different entity. >> But it's not designed for you to makethe most money. >> Sometimes you cannot takeyour business experience and exactly apply it to public education. It's notapples and >> I mean in in Brian's defense, I mean wedo [laughter] we do have at the at the director level.I mean if you don't perform you might not get renewed on yourcontract, right? >> And that's very that's very real.>> space >> Yeah, so it's there's a downside to it,but then he's talking about adding an upside. You know, to a point whereit's not a bad idea if you're you've got a district that's that's stagnant ordecreasing maybe need somebody says, "Hey, I'm willing to take the risk."And if it doesn't succeed, I'm going to lose my job, you know, but if it doessucceed, these changes I'm going to make maybe I'll get a bonus.So, again, I think that's something contract time you can discuss. I don'tknow that we can >> I know our superintendent is not infavor of >> He's not, but I wanted to share I justwanted to share one >> I'm not I I just want to say from avalue proposition, I get it and I'd be in favor of it. I don't think it worksin public education or any government entity where taxation is the revenuesource because there has to be I how you going to control that? Now,you did say something uh Director Thompson I I I think would be anapproach that if you wanted to rally around it would be to lower that basesalary and create incentives in there so that you're staying within that marketrate and that might incentivize, but you know, if I'm asuperintendent I can and I'm looking for a job and I could go here where I don'thave to deal with that and I go there, you know, I go it goes back to what Mattwas saying is you know, hey, do I want to take those kinds of risks? UmAnd everybody's situation's different, so>> Let's Let's Let's make sure we're on the same page.Channel 5 News KSTP had an article out on October 15th, 2025.Uh they had superintendent compensations and Dr.David Law, Minnetonka Public Schools, makes $298,000as a salary. Plus, he has the ability to earn up to59,000 a year in performance pay if he meets certain goals. So, he's gettingpaid 350. >> Well, it's like a salary.>> our current contract, I think the superintendent is what? Two-ish, 250-ishor something like that. And below, you know, Minnetonka. And Osseo's 280,Anoka's 280. And so, again, it's not unheard of, but it's it's one of thosewhere if we're going to create metrics and goals,uh is there something that we want toconsider? And while what if there's back backlash? There might be, but you knowwhat? Then what if they're backlash because theywant an incentive? Well, yeah, then let's make sure that if they're if theyhit their metrics, cool. Then let's give everybody incentives. Like I'm okay withthat if if we can show progress, proficiency in reading and math, but>> But maybe for another day in an alternate universe.>> I'm going to say that I feel like we have a better superintendent.>> [laughter] >> No, David Law's pretty good.>> So, >> I'm I'm just I'm reading what what itsays. I'm not saying that we need to do it, but>> maybe we can look at Minnetonka's contract and if and when we need torecruit a new superintendent, that should be part of that contract. ButWhat Does anyone have any suggestions onIs this document close to where you would hope it would be?Are you wanting something substantially different? Paul.>> Yeah, if I Michael you said something earlier thatI think was spot on and that you took great notes last year.Because if you remember the conversations we all had up at the DSabout metrics about common you know you you were all sitting in the sameseats I were. So you a lot of that is in here.So bravo to that. So to answer your question Amber, I'd saywell 85 90% of this I'm personally I'm satisfied with. Now we dohave to come to agreement on metrics and what that number should be.Um and I do think that we should run paralleluh run two parallel rabbit trailseven though we may not have common assessment and current alignment becauseI am aligned with Matt on this. Umwe can't say let's just not do it or let's forget it because it'll neverhappen. And if we use what we have but we'rerunning a parallel with the with the common assessment and the and thecurrent alignment I'm not sure how we ever find out who'sproficient and who's not if nobody's motivated to take the MCAs and all thoseother tests. They are motivated when they're in theclassroom. And they've got to take a test or they>> Yeah, I'm not suggest I'm suggesting that I add something in here.And I know you said so it doesn't have to be parallel. It'll be I'll put it inhere but obviously we got to get agreement around what that is and I needto do a little more homework to to get it there and I'll come back with Um,with that as well as some numbers here that we can maybe kick the can around onthose. >> Okay, I think that sounds good.>> like in our next work session, cuz >> Mhm.>> you can kind of come back with that some of that.>> When is that? So >> July.Or do you want things to be done by then?>> it it is I'll probably be in Tahiti. >> Oh, good. Really?>> I don't know. >> [laughter]>> My wife is My wife's like, "You got to take a vacation.">> Definitely too, yes. >> So, I always look at July because>> So, it has been mentioned that sometimes the board takes a break in July.>> Yeah, we used to do that every year. >> Oh, really?>> Yeah. July was uh >> If you>> Maybe I'll run into you, Brian, on the golf course or something.>> Most school boards do. >> Yeah, many other school boards do notmeet in July. So >> But, I'm not suggesting that. Please donot That's a different conversation. I justwant to make sure that >> Mhm.>> I'm physically here to do that and>> wouldn't take July. We have too many policy discussions to take a break.>> Yeah, exactly. And >> I think it's a bad idea.>> I mean, I can also I can also make sure that you get aread-ahead opportunity so that, you know, we wedon't have so much homework to do right here.>> you putting this thing out there and thinking through this. Thank you.>> This is good. >> Good.>> Yeah, Brian. >> So, my last comment isI do like the framework. I like the four goals. I think it's good. Again, whatare we doing for metrics and then what are we doing for initiatives? But, Ialso want to be mindful that ideally we should be having theseconversations in October, November in Q4 so that whatever we want to plan for thenext school year is part of the budget budgetary budgetary discussions inJanuary so that he's he has the additional staffing and resources>> Mhm. >> and then and then training over thesummer so that whatever plan >> Mhm.>> we align in in October can have the opportunity to be implemented inSeptember. And so you don't have this opportunity. You don't have You don'tYou don't have January to to find the resourcesum uh do the training materials, get theteam aligned. So you would be going really fast. So I just want to bemindful of like short-term goals, things that are probablyachievable in this window, and then revisit this back in October.>> Yeah. >> Setting the stage for next year.>> Mhm. >> That's all.>> And I think the good thing is a lot of this builds on what you've already beenfocused on. >> Yes.>> So this is not new things. >> That was the goal.>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So not it's not really newnew initiatives necessarily. It's already in progress.>> Right. It's reinforcing. Yeah. >> Mhm.>> Good to see it in the structure and all summarized in the way it is.>> Like the dashboard. I loved it. I'm glad that the campus that the uh thedashboard is built up because when we were at the Lakeville City Councilmeeting, like I I had that popped up and the lady to the right of me, I forgother name. She was um >> Mhm.>> She I think she did the zoning or the the boundary or something like that. Andand we were looking at, you know, um uh stats, enrollments, and like thatlike I love that. Like that was great to be able to have. Yeah. So.>> Great. Okay, anything else for tonight, anybody?>> No. >> I just want to thank each of you forat least giving me the feedback I need. So thank you for that.>> Yeah. Great. All right, we're adjourned.>> Awesome. Thank you. >> Wait.>> All right. >> There's [laughter] more.>> What? >> Congratulation was super fun. So goodjob for putting it together. Uh all the kids they went through theprocess. It was awesome. So I don't I I know a lot of work behind the sceneswent into it. I don't I didn't see it other than we were there, we werepresent, we did handshakes, and um >> So I got your your uhcritique feedback. I got Kim's. And I'm I I am just doing an all callfor if if there are others because we're we're doing a AAR uh on the 23rdinternally to do the you knowthe review of that so >> What is the AAR Samfire?>> Oh I'm sorry after action review. >> Okay, thank you.>> Um So I want to capture all that and then Ithink there's also a conversation about and this is something I will will bringback to the board um what are options for for next yearum and you know cuz I I I don't think we haveunanimity that we want to stay here but I thinkthe after action needs to happen first so that I can talk uh in detail aboutyou know what are the trade-offs umIt does it does cost us more to do it here than Maryucci was charging us justso you know. Oh yeah. Yeah. So umthat you know I know everybody's financially conscious around here uh andI want to be >> fund?A little bit. >> Well it's all general fund anyway. Imean Maryucci was general fund. >> but it was it was more than Maryucci.>> It was it's more than Maryucci but um you know the otherI I don't want to do the AAR now but I just want to make sure you know that I'mnot like okay this is the only option uh and we probably as as a school boardand myself as a superintendent need to have the conversation with you aboutwhat are some other options and do we want to consider them and my drivingissue well I I'll honestly say I have two one is financial>> [clears throat] >> the second one isnobody wants to make the weather call. You do not want that in your life. Umbut I think having a contingency is is important. I think we did have acontingency. I don't know we didn't have to to it. Thank the good Lord. Um UmBut, that's just not a fun thing either, so just Well, it Here's how it goes. You guyswill say stuff to me, and then the rest of the staff will be, you know, likeeverybody's ringing their hands, "Oh, what's the superintendent going to do?What's the superintendent >> [laughter]>> Cuz nobody wants to make that decision. I'm not afraid to make the decision.There's a lot of anxiety associated with it, cuz you want the kids and thefamilies and the community to have a wonderful experience.Um You know, we didn't have to go inside,but if we have to go inside, I think you guys are going to have a littledifferent experience. Not be Not at the ceremony itself, the aftermath.>> I didn't even ask you. I'm like, "I don't need to put more pressure on youto feel like you have to make one way or another a decision." >> I know. I talked to Jason.I talked to Jason, and it's like, you know, no superintendent wants thatin their world, but, you know, >> call when there's a snowday. I mean, it's >> so much easier. Yeah, I'll tell you thesecret to that. I'll tell [laughter] you the secret tothat if you want to talk. >> Thank Thank you.>> All right. Bye, everybody. >> I Yeah, I miss seeing both of them, andalso the awkwardness of the stage situation.