"stands one nation God indivisible withy and for on to item three citizens comments we have any wishing to address the council tonight so and with that we'll move on to discussion times the first is city council compensation is that H up so recording okay sorry good evening mayor and city council um tonight we're discussing the city council compensation um the city last the council last discussed this in 2018 um at that time that's when the current um ordinance was adopted and S set the current um compensation for mayor and council members um um at that time the proposed ordinance also Incorporated a biannual cost of Liv living adjustment um but the city council ultimately removed that prior to 2018 compensation for mayor and city council was last reviewed and adjusted in 1999 um we want to bring this forward to um see if we should have more U regular discussions on it I've also provided a couple um charts that show um our comparable Market cities and where their compensation lies uh so the first one is council member and second one in your packet is for mayor we are right about in the middle if not slightly below the average um if the city council is considering any sort of changes to the compensation ordinance the salaries uh must be established and um amending ordinance 994 um it can take effect as soon as January 1 2025 um so staff seeks Direction on where the council would like to go with this well thanks for the back background information you know from just a Personnel standpoint we felt this is something that regardless of whether changes or not that we should bring up for conversation so appreciate the background I mean I'll offer some initial thought um for for what I see particularly our mayor do um did it a I do do think that I would feel comfortable with compensating the miror role quite a bit more but also know that that not necessarily a good move um for the general public and the use of their funds to do a large increase like that I mean I just based on what I know there's a lot more that you can former mayors have done um for him but I think 15,000 is fairly low for the work that goes into that role especially City this size yeah exactly um so I mean the comparisons are ni but I was just trying to think of just the number of meetings that I know mayor does on a basis and I I'd be comfortable with 25 honestly um but that feels like a significant jump in here and so maybe that's work towards but thought maybe a more reasonable amount would be an increase to 18 um in this next cycle for Council 2,000 increase so that it's 12 12 and 18 um can I just ask a question before we get before you finish it when you gave us the information as as far as the past where they started and then where they ended up my thought was in 2018 Luke you're the only one that's here well Justin too in 2018 did they have a discussion about the fact that they could only go up so much because they really didn't increase it much over 99 and so I didn't know if there was supposed to be maybe the whole inflation thing was supposed to be the way to to um make those steps like you were talking about you know the jump to 25 um so I didn't know if there was any planning that went into that they thought about um making steps to get to a different level I think and maybe you would remember I think one of the big conversations that they shifted away from that was the per meeting instead that you know different people on Council mayor would attend different committee meetings on of having like later like you were on a lot of committees and you become turn it in I I don't the the bigger conversation at the time was more around coverage and we decided to not go there so expensive or I don't even think it was providing but like popping into I can't remember what the something L anyway that was so expensive that I think the compromise really was say okay we'll just bump up Council and mayor and then avoid the automatic Med coverage thing well I just didn't know if you wanted to get rid of the permitting thing if you were just if you if your suggestion is to bump it like that yeah the other thing I remember from my conversation in 2018 was that the per meeting at least at that time was brought up as a way to keep council members accountable for the meetings that they were going to uh oh but I don't know that that concern exists at this moment in time um that people are going to the meetings that they're assigned to I fill it out for that reason pretty judicious about sending me that form but it's more so just I don't know I started doing it ear never have it yeah my loss but I just yeah if somebody for accountability they can um make a data request from my calendar see the time that spending um I agree I think uh I think a two-year review regardless of what happens I just it kind of baffles me that there was a two-year review and then all of a sudden it turned into a 18 or 19e review and then six year review so I'd like to just see that consistency so I think that's the first point is um doing that uh you know we're the average we're a little bit below the average in both parts um my concern is balancing I just feel really I gotta tell you I feel really awkward talking about um arrise but I do want to balance that we don't wake up one day and all of a sudden it's so desparate that now we have to do this huge deal so I wonder if if we are going to uh to make an increase if we do that over over a couple years and spend two years getting to where we think uh that would be a good I don't think we're that far off right now quite honestly my guess though is that most of these numbers are where they're at because it's is an awkward conversation to Happ and councils don't yeah Bloomington doesn't seem to have an issue whether or not you can do it planned incrementally right I think I think you'd have to take a vote time I think and I'm not in favor of the I think the proposal before was every two years you just do the cola I'm not in favor of that um but yeah if if we could accomplish that I think I think it would be good to to make an adjustment upward simply because I just don't want to come back two years from now and now that gaps bigger and bigger and bigger I have to believe that you can just because of history as the amendments in 98 and 96 were two different amounts in the two years so in 98 we approved it for 2000 May Sal was 858 and then in 2001 it was 879 but I think you had to take a boat to do that each time each year so um when I look at the mayor salary I think it's in line with pure cities so um I don't think I'd neily be in favor of increasing it I think the one area to that to look at would be our like conference budgets I don't remember where that number is there's a lot of value in thinking and we I don't I can't think of a time a council person has been to a conference outside of the state um and I think there's value in learning um from other places so but guess this year I probably won't go to leagues maybe and I'll say I frankly was surprised we had a salary when I um started last year so I um I don't see anything out of line and I would not support an increase either and then I mean my only question would be too is if we're gonna review it every two years how is that documented is that just documented in minutes or is it we can put it policies and procedures that we RW every year at The Retreat yeah just say it's just put a clock on it or every other year yeah that's what I mean yeah in but in our policies to say every other year doesn't sound like the strong support the two any changes we sounds like I was gonna say do you want it to always that review to Happ been in the even number of years oh that makes sense it does or you want it to AUD no because it would go in effect after an election right I just know sometimes it's sensitive to talk about it in an election so I'm saying if you bring it up in a even in an odd year it still takes place after that next election but it's not as close it's just that you don't have as accurate information on the surrounding cities at that point then you're going on all Daya there's a two-year yeah then there's a two-year lag so um is it that contentious to really up a salary if you can um you have a basis for it I don't think so I I think when you say we're at the bottom of the you we're not but if we end it up at the bottom for the size city that we are type of thing then you know you have a rationale as to why you're increasing it and also documenting how many hours are put in to to serve the community so I do think the city council is under so we do one I think you want to go that direction there's not more support for to if I'm just looking at our Pure cities honestly when I looked at it I thought about how many hours you put in versus what we put in and so I you know that's why it didn't bother I it it didn't um increasing yours um see seemed very rational not only the hours you put in but your previous mirors I had before you you all your role is just much different than ours as far as the things that you the meetings that you have to attend now if you want to do it differently and have something like um some sort of perdm for the type of meetings constituent meetings that you go to instead of just committee meetings you know instead of upping the salary you probably'll get to your salary that same the same suggest that he gave because of the number of meetings you go to so you might want to think about that um if you were to go back through your calendar over the last year and a half as being mayor how many meetings you've taken no I know but I'm saying it's only the meetings are only the only the reimbursable are the ones that you approve on that list right so it's not like all the citizen meetings and everything like that so it's just no I'm what I'm trying to say is if you were to take a different point of view if he were to if you were to look at the calendar of meetings that he's had that are outside of the committee me and the numbers of them and if you were to tackle a pum on it you're probably getting to almost Joshua's close why why is Courtney why is Ean $104 like a automatic thing you know what I'm not exactly sure on that there's a couple on here that have like really weird Egan Brook Park brookham park there must be some sort of like percentage because an automatic infl infl yeah I guess that too because everybody else is like around two are yeah only other comment is this was or thought was to do a similar increase to what our staff received 3% um because again this conversation never gets easier especially as you get further further down the the comparables because nobody wants to increase large amounts probably don't like to see that so yeah I mean I think that was reasonable 3% yeah and you know I don't have a phone to pick on this I just want to make sure you think of everything if you don't do it now then the next time would be 27 and then you're pushing that nine-year difference again which the last time did it so great I honestly thought you guys would think about doing something small now I thought from where they started to where we are today was such such so small I thought there must have been some sort of plan you know to so um I think it was based on the average at the time you looked at the comps that the average I think there's not 3% 10,000 is what 10,300 yeah I think I don't think there's we have any assess here so okay all right so what we'll do is we'll bring it back every years on kind of a regular basis just for discussion and see where we're at comparably to other cities okay great thank you no thank you sure it's annoying to look at the comparable cities so um okay we will now get an update on 3550 from our of the Year this G [Laughter] be did you he I'm going to do my best to summarize about 16 to 18 months of discussions and technical analysis um do a 20 minute update for you so we'll see how that goes um I'm going to talk about a couple of things today but I did want to start out um one so I wanted to start with just um a background and then we'll try to go from there so back in 2021 uh we received uh $1.4 million from the state and that was kind of the Catalyst to take this project and start it moving and so we took about $700,000 up to that that was granted to mindat and that was used to do a corridor study the purpose of that is for us to make improvements to The Interchange we had to know what what was mind's vision for the entire quor do we build you know is it going to be a two-lane Bridge a three-lane bridge so that was kind of the first 14 16 months of this study and then uh so this was actually prepared by minda it was their study they ran it I'm going to highlight a few things in there um but the study basically looked from Burnsville to Lakeville uh from the split to County Road 70 and they kind of broke it into five things following mot's kind of procedure for this an overview purpose and need public engagement Corridor Concepts and so there were two things for that first was to understand the corridor needs and then the second was to use that information to give the city and county some direction as to how we can design The Interchange at County Road VI there's a number of factors included in the scope including public engagement uh an evaluation of existing uh conditions forecasted traffic modeling and then an analysis of corridor Concepts we did not do any pre- environmental work that was not required as part of this funding Grant so when that breaks it into three different areas primary needs vehicle safety vehicle Mobility secondary needs that aren't the Catalyst for but contribute to it are the Bridge condition and the payment condition I'll highlight that a little bit later and then additional considerations being modal access and they wanted to make sure that it didn't preclude our ability to expand The Interchange the long and short as they looked at the corridor and there was evidence that there was congestion and there were several areas along this stretch that it exceeded the critical crash rate the the takeaway is a lot of the accidents were happening at the ramps and that's attributed mostly to short lengths we don't have of those long extended ramps to accelerate or decelerate and therefore about 80% of those cat crashes were rear ends and or run off the road and so men that use that more as a localized issue and not necessarily the freeway itself but they did identify that there is congestion here and if nothing is done there'll be continue to be congestion that will contribute to issues along those rafts uh level of service we've talked about this in the past if we have an A that means everybody's flowing continuously f is congestion so a being good F being bad and you'll see here a number of intersections um Northbound in the morning southbound in the PM that are approaching that D andf capacity if we don't make any improvements so you'll see 70 and 50 and 60 here uh this is just the study um wanted to focus on public engagement um long story short is we had a really good effort we got over 2,000 people engaged we uh we had uh popup events uh we had events at the Home and Garden Show uh we had a web map we had opportunities at our waffle breakfasts and uh other City events and so mindat was extremely pleased with the number of folks that we have engaged they were quite honestly surprised at the amount of people that were interested in contributed comments and votes uh these priority votes where they had a little tree and what are your concerns you know what does this uh the residents consider and in it surprise you that you know 35% you know 60 80% of them had congestion Lanes issues at Rams merging on an off and safety I mean that that would align with what we see and experience on a regular basis so we we developed four Concepts um one is an Easy Pass lane or a high occupancy Lane we also looked at general purpose Lanes auxiliary Lanes the lanes between the on ramps and the off ramps to help you get in and out and then concept four was a interim look at just doing auxiliary Lanes between 50 and 60 and I'll get into a little detail here that's that's an example of of the different corridors but what I wanted to emphasize is one of the key points that came out of this study and and one that um City minator Miller will be able to test to is there was a lot of focus initially at Road 50 and um commissioner Holberg did an outstanding job and and what we've always indicated is there's a lot of pressure coming from Cony Road 60 from the west and mindat wasn't necessarily seen that until we went through this study and as a result of this they have agreed that the improvements that we make have to extend down to County Road 60 we have a lot of pressure coming from the west and using that access area to get onto the freeway and that was new information to M that so that was a definite success that came out of this project um however as you go further south on 70 we didn't quite see the volumes the pinch point there is kind of at 60 and 50 and so they looked at different options here and where we end up is is kind of a a blend of two and three at the end but just kind of wanted to give you a little bit of an idea on that where you'll see the auxilary ramps between the intersections and then there'd be some uh uh oops sorry and then uh general purpose Lanes some sort of addition the long story short is we need to have additional capacity there's not an existing capacity on the interstate right now and they summarized that um Concepts one and two and three basically we're adding capacity we're showing benefit from mobility and re liability addressing some some safety concerns the idea of doing an another from Improvement like concept 4 addresses some of those short-term things but doesn't set us up for long-term success and so that really that really kind of fell off the table uh we did do some estimates there was some criteria involved um but what you'll see is is uh rather large numbers and uh as we go further on here I'll highlight some of those costs but uh when we kind of took a look at it we're like I said focusing kind of a build two or three so somewhere around that $150 million um concept but you know depending upon what direction we go the evaluation was not to give a recommendation uh men do studies don't necessarily do that it's really that quarter concept evaluation they weren't doing design it was really to provide information um to the parties so the next steps uh was to identify a purpose and need evaluation that is part of What's called the NEPA process but that's that's the next step in delivering a project where you have Federal funding um closing out finisher costum finishing the report the technical uh reports they're not quite done with that uh if you look at the website it's still in draft form uh I anticipate probably this Summer that process will be completed that was led by a consultant so it's really fast um but you know again I think the Highlight was is Rec recognized the need they expanded their limits down to County Road 60 and they identified that it's not only it may not be a capacity issue but the ramps need to be addressed due to the congestion on 35 then just I'm going to shift focus a little bit any questions on the corridor study it's it's technical in nature but so then concurrently The Next Step that we're working on is uh the interchange itself so step one was to do the corridor study update and now we're looking at the intersection itself so that's what it looks like today uh you've all driven it but you know you the pinch Point here where there's only one lane uh going there we don't have pedestrian uh facilities all the way around we have two lane Bridges what has come out of that study is uh those bridges are deficient in capacity and structure so they need to be replaced right now it's looking like a be three lanes in each Direction so the bridges would widen to accomodate accommodate those additional Lanes as well and then you can see again these on ramps and off ramps this is a really perfect example that's that's a short acceleration ramp with very little area to merge would that allow for widening 50 because that that's also a pinch Point underneath that's a good yep excellent yes you are correct and I'll get to that okay so where we are at in the process is on February 9th with the information from in that pdor study at about a 95% the county issued a request for proposal for preliminary engineering we've talked about this quite a bit because the county was awarded over $5 million in federal money for engineering itself there's a lot of um a lot of steps to go through if you use that Federal money for preliminary engineering so the goal right now is to use local dollars for the preliminary engineering and then use those federal funds for the final engineering so this was very strategic in the dates so right now we're going to for prelimary engineering we sent it to eight different local Consultants many of whom are going to partner up in team to get some Innovative and fresh ideas and then March 8th those uh rfps are due probably May uh a contract will be awarded the goal is to have a geometric layout by February 1st of 2025 and the reason for that is in the last legislative session there was um legislation passed called the greenhouse gas emissions um with that is a new law that requires quite a bit of mitigation and significant costs millions of dollars um to preclude ourselves from having that law take place on this intersection we have to have a layout done by February 1st so we're targeting that concurrently there's there's several staff uh city city Engineers that are working with the author of that bill um there was a little bit of am ambiguity in it that we're trying to kind of narrow down um so we actively are meeting with him and his representatives and I would expect maybe some technical correctness or some some minor revisions to come out of this session to kind of address some of those issues as well there was a task force that just finished their report that talked about uh some of the impacts and then how that would apply to be applied to Future projects uh and then once we get that geometric layout complete then we would submit that RFP for final engineering RightWay acquisition and construction based upon this timeline we're looking at a 2027 start of construction so 2026 we'd have final design and RightWay I wanted to give you a little bit of update on funding application uh like we talked about we did get some money previously that 1 Point 4 million that half of that is going to be applied to this project about $700,000 we also received the $5 million uh from and congressionally directed spending for engineering since then we've made multiple efforts uh to get additional dollars in 2022 the city and county partnered in the quds of Commerce program uh we asked for 101 million we are unsuccessful what I will highlight is um if you're familiar with that Pro process uh the statutory law requires geographical Equity between Metro and outstate we tied with the highest project that did get it but it was outstate so um the takeaway from that is this project is kind of next in line it was a lot of lot of a lot of feeling that we're just about there cheaper was a lot cheaper yes well $5 million if I recall um five million cheaper it was only five it was only five a a lot we uh they won the tie break that was and they did that was shared with us that that was a big difference obviously um we also um made an effort uh to get some federal dollars as front of the iiga we requested $16 million uh we were unsuccessful in that I sat through uh debriefing this after afternoon um with the do on that and they gave us some real excellent feedback I would say um the overall thought process is is that we were cautiously optimistic on this um but the the real reward was getting some feedback as to what could make for a strong application here in the next solicitation which is expected here um in August and really it was kind of a project Readiness we didn't have the benefit of layouts and design and right away a need and we knew that and we did our best to put in that uh in that conceptually but the feedback that we got is to score higher you need that so um I would expect that uh as we move forward here this summer and fall uh they're working through the notice of funding opportunity and that we would try that again Z when we do those applications to like do we get letters from our Congressional and Senate so we get the PO we do we have had excellent contributions from our from our membership y been our elected officials Zach another question so you come back and you ask a year later we're a little bit smart we have a little more stuff so same amount of money or I would expect it to be a different amount of money we uh s that submitt and I'm going to share with you uh a slide here shortly that shows how we've kind of revamped our layout so in 2004 we did an official map which kind of was the basis for acquiring um the Burger King and then also the gas station also for realigning 172nd opposite home furniture since then we've gotten a little smarter we've gotten some better Innovation and we've kind of revised that layout so I would expect that amount to change um we currently have two uh open uh Federal attempts uh we have one is the uh Regional solicitation that goes through the Met pouncil we're asking for $10 million and I'll show you here shortly why you'll see these dollar amounts and then we also are going back to the ija for the raise Grant and we're asking for $25 million on that um to the mayor's point we are working with our elected officials and uh just this morning I was notified I Got A draft copy of the bill uh two bills actually from the reviser uh one is going to be a request for $25 million that is specific to the cost of The Interchange so that $25 million should be allocated to the state the second uh solic the second request is $8 million and that mayor would go towards County Road 50 Janelle path all of those local roads cloth trail that are off the interstate system so that $8 million would go to the locals to address those needs go back to this it um so with that this is our most current l out that we kind of sorry um but you'll see here for an example the longer ramp here you'll see how these kind of tie in so it's not dramatic um you'll see here that we have Incorporated the the multimodal facilities that wasn't necessarily included um to the mayor's Point you'll see how County Road 50 is widened from one lane to almost three or four in there with an emergency shoulder to address kind of those capacities going uh underneath the freeway as well this would include replacement of the bridges uh one here and then also the portion that crosses the railroad to the South um has some different ramps as well one of the things in the RFP is we are asking for some Innovation they don't need to have this exact interchange design there's multiple there's Clover leaves there diverted diamonds so there's there's technical ways of of bringing traffic in and out we have we have that RFP to take a look at that and see if there's some ways that um would better be more efficient and U within kind of that framework of RightWay uh lastly uh we are working again with our elected officials the county has prepared a one-page report front and back um that talks about the cost and right now we're looking at a phase one which would be the replacement of the bridge and then the local Road um um supporting that and then the auxiliary Lanes immediately thereafter so we've been pretty clear that we're not looking to do improvements on mots right away uh that is something that they would have to do uh right now they have a payment preservation uh plan for 2029 to address some deficient uh pavement at that time we would also look for them to put some money in the table and then address those auxiliary Lanes from 50 to 46 and then from 50 to 60 um so that 40 million if I remember right it's about 22 million or so for the bridge and about 18 million for the local roads like 50 and clth and 170 so um that's where we are at today uh we are going to be developing our draft CIP the county has advanced their CIP process this year so whereas it used to be in December it's advancing about three months in in advance of that so for our schedule you'll be seeing some information a little bit sooner than than normal um but we are working closely with them we have met with them already this year to talk about our draft CIP uh the big takeaway is this would probably be programmed in 2027 versus right now it's in 2026 any questions uh do you many of these funds expire so if you apply or granted them does that create a timeline that we have to be aware of there is a Sunset date with them uh it's it's quite a bit it's like there isn't anything that we're remotely close I think some of them are like 2030 2031 so we're still well within that area we basically have to demonstrate a commitment to an advanced project you don't necessarily have to expend it per se but we have to just make sure that we're going through the process they don't want to just money and then have go away so but yes there is but we're will within those time frames it's more of a construction question will the both North and South Bridges 35 Bridges be closed at the same time it is a construction question uh we haven't gotten to that level of detail obviously uh my experience is if we look at the 13 bridge that was done with Burnsville uh you know there was always an attempt to keep traffic open at some point point so I would suspect that there would be some effort to keep some traffic moving for sure I I I don't think it would be the four lanes that we have today might go down to two might be some creative ways um it would you know it's it would be hard to close this I mean you're talking about 160 there isn't and so um to lessen the pain we'd have to keep I think there'd be a lot of creative I think there'd be some night work um you know one of the things that we've talked about in developing the cips at least for our local folks is to make sure our north south and east west roads aren't impacted by our local construction so we're talking with our neighbors on judicial things like that to make sure that we are not uh adding to some of the uh inconvenience there but that's one of the details that we'll work out for sure people in prity are gonna have to stay in prity notice that the total costs those are all future costs right because accounting for what the city has already put invested in correct we uh however we do have that uh you are correct in that we do have that in our CIP though so the funds that we have expended today were actually so those are actually funds from the Met Council as far as the rightaway acquisition for the Burger King and the gas station is about $2 million it's an interest free loan through the Met Council so we do have that factored in basically once we go into RightWay an acquisition we have to pay that back but we have shown our city and C or County cost here in this city other questions so they have Dakota County has these drafted that they'll have them the requests and everything so we don't okay correct and once I get that information I'll send that to to Mr Miller um but that we uh we're just still getting we have they haven't even assigned a a house file number to it yet it was just literally fresh this morning morning so uh those were drafted by representative Kik okay is it so are there Senate companions yet not [Music] yet I will I I'll provide Mr Miller with the copy yes they are all available there's a there's a one pager there's some other uh links and then also that that layout might be helpful too so yes it's an exciting project it uh it takes some time but there's there's a lot of interest and momentum and uh if we can get success on some of those funding that would help a lot so one of those career projects it could be the intern improvements felt that way [Laughter] too thanks welcome um let's move on to franchise the discussion that well this is my first time using story map so I'm getting used to it um all right so under Minnesota statute 216b 36 cities can impose fees on utility companies that use the public rights of way um to deliver their service um there are different structures of how to set up the franchise fees um but for the purposes of this presentation I'm going to talk about um a flat rate approach um probably the second most common is a a percentage but we'll get into that here in a bit um I'll just note that the city does have um franchise agreements with all four utility providers in Lakeville I'll zoom in on this map in a second but Center Point Minnesota Energy EXL and Dakota Electric this just shows um their service area that makes sense right um each service provider has kind of a way that they um structure their fees um so in the First Column here the electric um companies typically structure their fees um in four categories residential and then they break down their commercial and Industrial into three different categories and that's mainly dependent on usage same with gas they'll have their residential category and then they have five categories where they break down commercial and industrial based on usage um the reason I bring this part up is because the next chart you'll see how other cities have broken down their fees and um one thing that a lot of other cities have done is instead of saying we're going to um impose a a certain fee on electric and a certain fee on gas they break it down into these categories so it um it's more Equitable so residential person uh consumer is not paying the same as a a large um commercial or industrial uh consu uh customer according are um institutions exemp so like churches schools so that this this is a tool to capture all customers um ones that are typically exempt so kind of looking at this chart you'll see how our Market um comparable cities have broken down their franchise fees um there are only a handful of Metro cities that don't impose franchise fees um two that are included in this chart um that have been identified as our comparable cities are Blaine and naal Grove and there are also couple that do the percentage um um uh fee structure um but for the most part you'll see the the different fees that these cities um impose and then all of the averages down the bottom any reason why oh and this is kind of really specific question but why ala Valley is the only one that doesn't have gas with a do electric when kind of reaching out to some of these cities they're talking about it right now um I don't know why when they implemented um what they have currently they didn't do both but they are talking about it my guess it might have their franchise was up they use that the exam as a time to all right um then here you'll see um the city's current commercial and residential accounts there are currently 443 commercial accounts and um a little over two 23,000 residential accounts um this chart here shows if fees were to be assessed at different levels what um total revenue um could be potentially expected um so the main difference is here the first uh line $2 for residential electric I'm sorry electric gas or six and 12 and then the other amounts increase as well um so you can kind of see what um a potential annual revenue could be from these different Fe structures mon yes monthly yep so um you would see it twice you would see a $2 charge if that were the charge on your gas bill and then also a two on your electric so be $4 sorry it probably depends also on like meters right so if there's a strip mall and there's only one meter that just one charge even though there might be 10 businesses correct earlier percent this is a flat this is a flat rate yes so when you say that this is just sorry it's a flat rate but how the utility companies break down how they charge a customer um you might fall into you wouldn't but a commercial or industrial user might fall into a higher category based off their usage so in general it's not based on usage you know residential you're you're only that paying that one rate but to make it more Equitable across all of the commercial IND industrial users they have different categories that um folks would fall into that's not something that the city would said that's something that the compan said correct to help determine how they're paying for franchise feed that's imposed exactly well they also use it for their own usage to um for their own fee structure we set the rate so let's say we wanted to charge a 4% fee on commercial that it's 4% based on what the bill is but you could do a 4% on on a um commercial a or 6% on C it's really you can it's all a card however we would want to set it up we just did this to show just an example of scale Maj ACC you mentioned majority of cities are doing a flat feo correct yeah in in our comparable cities I think there were only two or three that did um the percentage structure but um Finance director stall can speak to it too I think it that leaves a little bit more unpredictable um especially with budgeting and also for the the um consumers a little bit more unpredictable whether their um usage is higher lower in winter summer you know whatever months I flat fee would be a little more transparent for customer absolutely and is the concept like a city that does one of these fees charges the utility and then utility pass as that on to their customers however they see fit to be able to equitably collect uh what the city is yeah well so the utility company it shows up on their monthly bill um and then when the customer pays the utility company that amount the company then uh remits that payment to the city on a quarterly basis does that answer your question the city the city sets the amount yeah okay it's not up to the utility compan house how to they just collect they just that's that was my question y that was my question P yes that's a good way to so um moving on to um some uh kind of large larger Financial targets that the city has um Finance director stal has uh broken down um some of these payment management Public Safety fire station uh remodels and how much um what the annual Levy is required for each fiscal year and how um franchise fees could help offset one or more of those I have a like a policy question so if you did you set it up well we're GNA have franchise fees but then sunset at 10 look at it so it's like okay we know we want to pay for fire stations pay like you know this is what the target is going to be and then future Council has to decide like oh we have $39 million more projects that need to be working on so you get that would be a more appropriate approach in the first place yeah because I don't think the sense is to like just grow government for the sake of growing government but we have specific things gotten to it yet or maybe I did but um most cities use their franchise fees for payment management um because it is an ongoing fee or an ongoing cost to the city um some others use it for environmental um and sustainability um but there's there's really a wide variety the most common that I was able to come across was pavement management and um Mr om can speak to that too from some of his experience and looking in other cities too most of that's due to the fact that it's in the J streets kind of NE are these Financial targets inclusive full just the mill and overlay projects or the full Recon no these are the payment management that's showing here is for more of the uh the crack sealing the patching uh small Mill and overlay projects those type of things striping U annual striping projects that we have cing gutter sidewalk repair Ada stuff like stuff like that the more of the miscellaneous type projects we still um the over the street reconstruction projects those are still paid out of a different mechanism so strict Recon is not on this list it's correct it's not on this list what are the different asteris some have three some have two some have one what okay at the bottom in the packet one star is the current fun source is operating oh two stars is the current fund Source bonding or additional three stars this next chart here will show um sort of the construction timeline um at least for the public safety training facility and fire station remodels and builds so kind of the question is um if the council were to go down this route of franchise fees what what um would kind of be the Target and like the mayor mentioned if there's one Target and then we have it to another one maybe what that would look like any questions on any of the financial targets or any of the numbers so far um just so I get it straight in my mind Courtney so the so the the previous chart that you showed for the public safety and the fire station that's if it was bonded and that was to pay the debt on it yeah yes that's the amount to lovey to cover the debt okay all right so if the council wishes to move forward with franchise fees um staff would be in preliminary Communications with the uh for utility providers um and implementing um the new franchise fees like I mentioned there are agreements with all four so that that step is done the city would then to adopt an ordinance with with each of their service providers to an active fee um and then the city would be required to notify the Pu and then allow time for all the utility companies to implement um the fees into their bilding processes so this is in some Dage like w for a franchise um I think if I remember right it could be after it was approved by Council it could happen as fast as 90 days um kind of give take um some time but you know working with the Pu and allowing the utility companies to implement the fee structure would take a little bit of time questions or comments from Council so I I just want to get straight my head or verify so when you implement a franchise feed um that applies to every like structure whether it's residential commercial so some of the places that uh like a take a school for existence or a church that isn't necessarily uh paying taxes on land that feed would still PL yes that includes government buildings too so like y exactly schools schools future recycling center look so I mean my so thoughts I mean my thoughts are clearly we have some long-term Financial liability we're getting to a point where we're starting to think about being fully developed so having permit fee and all that type other revenues start to start dwindling over next several years and so how do we meet that kind of financial Demand by without putting all on the property tax and you know my perspective on it is I think if we do have very specific things which we do Public Safety Training fire station changes payment management name three that are postive to all things we kind of agreed to as a council the direction we go s just get there um so I'm supportive of the idea it's just what is the right level and for what length and to me 10 years makes sense I don't know why I say that but just 10 years to around number um these be 10 year no these are 20y year bonds yes well probably I mean it depends but most likely because it's they're pretty extensive projects you know one way to look at it is let's just say you were to try to fund all of the payment management here think of it as you're taking two million off the levy that then you can use that same amount of that Levy for those toward those two next items if you wanted to think about it that way and I think part of it too is like there are certainly nonprofit entities in the city that use resources and that so being able to capture some of that financial support just for if you think of we're not like a city like St Paul where thir land is all govern but we certainly have those who use services so um to me it's it's figuring out the right amount uh I think it's not out of the realm to be into that between the four and $6 maybe $5 in between on the residential um so finding that happy medium between that 2.2 to 3.9 annual it's really shocking actually that's it's almost double when you go from four to6 on residential okay so let's just pick the number five because I can take that times 12 easily and yeah $60 all right so $60 a year from a residential are there taxes going to go down $60 the property tax is going to go down the $60 so that this is a wash no that the fee in the that they're getting on their gas and electric is offset by uh the property taxes that we would not charge them no but there's a decent chance that it would be less than if we had to Levy it all because it's there's more payers say that again so it's it would in theory be lower than if we had to put all of it on property tax levy because there's more payers at this that versus um so like right now I guess if you have let's say you have a multifamily building right they pay one property tax if you have 10 meters on that those are they're they're all paying a franchise fee so there so you're widening the pie who's paying and if we've already committed to fire station public obiously DET training and payment management the other funding mechanisms the levy what I'm trying to figure out is the cost to the taxpayer the residential taxpayers is it cheaper for them to have it levied on their property taxes or is it cheaper for them to have the fees I'd say fees because there's more more people paying and you have people paying into that aren't paying property taxes right so because I'm looking for the talking point that um is going to be necessary when they start getting their bills and contacting us to say what is this Fe for why and how is what's the benefit to me yeah there's definitely more there's more people paying in under franchise fee model than X model so you me and all of us if you're property taxpayers you would pay less into a fire station on a franchise feed model than you would if we were putting it on your property taxes there's more people because there's more people pay you you have a $100 bill you have five people paying into it it's going to be cheaper than four people paying that the the thing like for me when I initially looked at this I I had a lot of the same questions people are going to ask well I'm paying this what does it do to this but what I see is what we're looking at now um especially the public safety training facility the fire St those are public in the fire stations those are things that apply to the entire public that if we went just Levy to fund them there are people that are sometimes high-end users that you know that there isn't money going into that so I see it as an opportunity to spread those payments out and to have more people you know basically using uh these services uh pain for them and yeah while it isn't commensurate like you're going to pay $5 more $60 a year more your taxes will go down 60 in the long run it does help pay for things and it will help it will help the levy I just don't know how much is could this be a strategy for working with other cting adjacent and might publics facility to say since they are all using this franchise Fe structure to ask them to you know you're G to you want to stake in this for some of the bond increase with franchise feed you know 50 cents you know something like that as a potential way for them to buy in a little bit well I think some of the conversation we've had with other cities is more the ongoing yearly expenditures and less on the capital because we know that it's 800 so thousand to run it and that membership fee which is why we're pursuing more State funding we're going back again because we don't think we should be the only ones paying the capital but long term there's going to be a lot of users but I mean it's up to them to decide you know how they want to do that and it's their liquor fund or it's their franchise fee fund I think it would come down to timing too if they already have their franchise ear marked to payment management or something I don't know when those expired in their ordinance but I kind like like a timing situation too don't get me wrong I want more fingers in the PO on training facility the we don't necessarily have to go into this you in terms of moving forward in this process to figure out what is the appropriate amount as I'm thinking what what we should be using these these towards I don't know that the regional Public Safety facility fits into the rationale for where franchise fees on lfi resident should be applied to I think that's fair and I think my sense on that would be if we ended up getting more bonding money this year wouldn't be but the other the other part of that is if we go through the traditional bonding model this year instead of cash what we got last year we have to come up with mat you know the host so at a minimum coming up with host portion whatever we're asking for 17 18 million whatever 16 so 16 we'd have to ask we'd have to come up eight just a reminder we already do have franchise fees on cable bills that's been place for a long time have so many Fe those those are counts amazing you all know people continue to move but now I think all streaming is going back to cable so other thoughts on it sounds like we think it's a good idea term in dollars is kind of where we need to figure out I mean if I look at What's the total uh what was the total if we did the the new Fire Station because we were going to kind of reevaluate that well you're looking at 2.3 to three you're looking between two to four million in debt service if you were all the fire stations yeah which I mean just if you want to go to the high end you'd that'd be a $6 electric and $6 gas per month on residential sign so why why do we so for instance on the why does the Industrial get capped out on some of these models so why do we we basically there's no change three and four it's 120 is that because it's a Max it's not a Max those were numbers I just plugged in I I try to model them after some of the other cities um but those can be changed in any way and if you did a percentage you're GNA have some of those that are much higher right Sl to me if I if I look at it I think just from a fire station to $6 residential started again I the last time we had a conversation we weren all committed to building at least two new fire stations came out the architecture you know we had hoped to have that discussion tonight yeah we wer that's fine but that's on the buet for next month to come the next iteration of I don't think we'll really know until we get good data what the new 185th Mee de has this gone to the finance committee at all for just their inlo you the two of you here are either staff or from the committee have a we we don't to speak on behalf of the committee but if you want to speak on yeah no I can't I'm very fake chair of the finance committee we have have a meeting that's coming actually so it's on our docket for tomorrow night to talk about it so because it came up at your uh work session and so we have not had a meeting since then so this will be our first one so it's on there to talk about definitely uncomfortable to me that's why I'm just I would like some other input i' say knowing that you guys feel comfortable say okay we the council like to direct finance committee to come up with recommendation based on you know what's kind of in this schematic does that make sense obviously we could deviate but I don't know about a recommendation is just just more of their input as to yeah I mean it's not going to carry the way LW plan okay scenarios off feedback offer feedback questions that we should pose to you Ponder if we need to further no are you looking for general direction for a number to be looking at either a number or a goal do you want to do payment management you want to do the first center the fire station fire stations I mean to me the financial goal that makes the most sense to be looking towards is the payment management fire station Rems how much of that we can actually do at four four and a half million each year I don't know um but those would be the targets that I think make most sense to you franchise Fe On so the $6 and I'm sure there well number of accounts for commercial small not sure that could really skew it well no again I said 2.3 million is probably well I guess that's probably more accur so 3.7 de the fire station yeah I that's best estimate what we know the cost and the fire the Public Safety Training Facility the first center that's assuming we don't get any more money from the state and we have put out fer in a request for other communities to be Capital contributors or some other models so maybe I'm not thinking correctly but the still doesn't solve the problem of going further in debt I mean it's just a way to pay for the debt so I guess my other question to the finance people would be going further in debt for these when we're always concerned about keeping that Moody's rating at a certain level and so how does Finance fees this is question not to be answered right now do franchise fees then look positive to Moody when they are um looking at our ratings since we went further in debt I would dep part of the experts I would think if we had a dedicated source and that would ref positively I should mention you could structure it because the two management that's not debt so you could you wouldn't be issuing debt that this would just be money for the pavement management Oh I thought we issued debt for the rec this is not your reconstructs this is just your day your yearly maintenance okay so that's just in the regular budget for the yearly maintenance okay yeah very thank you um again I think that Michelle you identify something that we have definitely talked about on the committee with regard to how the debt level of the city inter interacts with the credit rating and how do we maintain the triple a credit rating so that has been on our radar for a little while and we're going to have more discussions about that part of that was the result of where we came up with the kind of the Deb de where we've got fo together we're going to be providing you and so it'll all fit together and this is a component piece of that to help with that discussion so what we'd like to do have a couple months to kind of look at this and then come back and present to it this group or to the council our thoughts and observations we see to give you the information you need to make an informed decision what the best option for Lakeville is sounds like the council is okay going the direction franchise just f and just I've gone through Paul's done this and some other cities I've done it before too this is not a one month discussion with Excel and DEA and those groups um so well I I understand why the finance committee want a couple months they'll need to start working faster than that if when I this place January yes let me just say I would like to because I think we're okay going in a franchise feed Direction but understand what that is I think having the conversations with the utilities to get the ball rolling yes we could we're okay doing that we can start the bones and the ordinance yeah PL y yep okay items for future discussion only thing I had um just if you've been following this new piece of legislation related to housing that is huge and all-encompassing and would have unbelievable ramifications for our city and how we grow um I I don't know it basically ties our hands but I would like to have a set of conversations that does pass what we can do to continue to you know grow the way we want to um I don't know if that's even possible but uh certainly asking staff to get creative on how we can react and uh I don't think we'll be alone that there's other cities that have so what that means from a legal standpoint or just coming up with Chang put it out there if you haven't if you missed the news last week it's basically takes our entire power away from any type of land um committee administrator updates y Michelle um it's just just a little update on the Arenas um we they are looking to they've drafted a a document um to get an extended warranty on the outdoor rink so we they'll be working with the contractor on that and then they're also um going to be sending out an RFP for naming rights on the outdoor Frank other than that he's doing really really well in uh concessions and selling ice and you know just very devoted to making sure that it's a very profitable Endeavor for all of us so now I'd be curious if you had any conversation about did we sell more indoor ice because there was no outdoor ice or it just was no it it it just doing better in general Brink time yeah no refrigerator indoor time right no I mean we'll see everything go up when the outdoor rank is in place too because he's putting programs um like for instance just something simple as like a a might tournament I mean so he's coming up with creative ways to get that ice being used and um has multiple ideas that could be used in the future to be able to uh utilize the ice at its maximum uh Public Safety Committee I won't go into most of specifics of these updates but um we had a good opportunity to talk through Recruitment and what that's looking like recently um continue to get Stellar candidates um applicant pools um but it is a big hiring for police and fire um with multiple positions open uh we we talked about some uh equipment needs upcoming for example the police vehicles are finally gotten most of what we've ordered but still back log squats going forward um that's talked about an upcoming fire engine uh which we may need to replace but depending on how fire station consolidation might work in the future we may not need to place one of those fire engines um and the police department's new recruitment video and flyer looks really snazzy um so impressed by our communication Department working with our Police Department to to attract new candidates uh have you guys had conversations with the fire department about now they're kind of really moving to this more Duty Crew and kind of signing for ships expanding the radius fire stations recruit do that happen ask that question question last week oh and the answer was not yet okay um part of my question was also about changing it so that it was a timed response as opposed to a mile radius but that's it's not a legal way to I don't know if it's legal that's the turn Bo but yeah it's not that the distance the distance is that um proxy for how long it takes them to get to the station and so they do the map around the station and they can extend it but then it just extends the mount to gets to the station and doesn't do anything so there'll still be Pages uh for the foreseeable future and so uh I think our chief feels strongly that keeping that radius as is for now is important to make sure that we meet our targets for the time response to a call okay uh had that Dakota 911 meeting board meeting um business was pretty routine a few items of Interest citizen web reporting may possibly come the second half of this year what does that mean it means a citizen would be able to uh report something to 911 that's routine uh using internet so not necessarily using phone call so you could go to web reporting and and it would go in and then it would be triaged um for you a lot of departments are using that in that home was your meeting before or after um the lack of service for it was it was after that was okay go ahead yeah so then uh the director talked about the 911 outage they're still investigating that I mean it was a weather related outage due to tornadoes in the Madison Wisconsin area so that's why it affected is and Illinois at the same time does Madison cover that I the interesting part was on social media my husband got texts from people in Illinois Iowa that theirs went out at the same time yeah so what I don't maybe you can um maybe did maybe you know answer what what's our redundancy other than going to Rams County that we don't have a secondary Fiber Well that's here's my thing is like I'm thinking back of when I was on on dbb like the whole point was to have redundancies in fiber and like what there is a redundancy in the fiber the redundancy didn't connect so then after the redund after that didn't work then the backup is to go to start taking a calls and to go to Ramsey Cony is not like oh we'll just call them up and all of a sudden there's a process one of the things that I brought up was you know how often do we test like the redundancy and I mean like physically not just all the computer says it should work but physically test it how often do we physically test uh backing up with Ramsey County because that took quite some time uh backed up through eny cor but yes there is a backup pathway and did just the transfer to the backup appway something happened um that's still being looked at I mean there's no's no concrete answers yet and this has been looked at by all levels of the state um Department of Public Safety and federal people and and well I just found it also interesting that theota County one of the largest counties gets hit but the other five the other four were very very small counties and I just couldn't figure out how we ended up in that sweep do you know what I'm trying to say because they were down yeah yeah it's just who your provider is and who's on that why that was I was I was at walls were trying to buy a car and they have the same Frontier I guess sell cars for three yeah then the third thing is um just the fixed cost discussion continues um the county pays fixed costs and what their percentage is and everything there's a work that's going to be continue that discussion so those are the highlights is the county backing off on wanting to no it's just a matter move forward up to the 50% they are aren't they I'm on a grou I'm on a group discussion all right so that's all for that we know if there was I I was almost scared to ask that question I there was no report on anything like that you know it's I I can't do I think if there would have been something hypercritical we that but definitely some work to do to just show that that we don't see I don't know why the whole weather thing just seems like a story to me versus you know it's kind of like those weather balloons falling across this the sky and we got all kinds of stories for those so I I would like a real answer someday I I to explain this because it's just it's really odd and this isn't this isn't the first situation in the United States to have something like this happen and so there there there's a reasons that some of this is happening we need the real answers any other updates not I will take oh let me just say this public record our next meeting is next Monday it's 6 o'clock 6:36 PM is the new time that I'll take a motion to adourn take a second okay all favor say I"