All right, I'm going to call the meetingto order. This is a [snorts] special meeting scheduled for December 2nd, 2025for the Lakeville area schools. If you will all rise for the pledge of>> allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the UnitedStates of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation underGod, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right, we can do uh roll call maybestarting on my left and going around the table. Uh, Bill Homegrren,>> Carly Anderson, >> Paul Corbone,>> Brenda Albert, >> Amber Cameron, Rashad Humphrey,>> Tony Rankenberger, >> Emily McDonald,>> Lucas Young, >> oh, Tracy Rald,>> Kim Baker, >> Michael B.>> All right. And I'm Matt Swanson. So, board, I will say we we ended up jammingmore things into this night than or initially anticipated. um just withthree weeks left, we had a lot of stuff to kind of put in and our next twomeetings will be busy as well. Um some of these things are just I mean all ofthe things [snorts] are just for discussion. Um but we don't necessarilyhave to spend a ton of time on them depending on interest. SoI guess we'll just jump right into the first thing. Um combining pollinglocations. This is something the district uh brought to our attention asa recommendation. Um this would apply only to special elections um not to anyof our general elections and the thought process is to try to save some costs onpolling locations and then I don't know Kim if you hadsome additional comments or >> other if I can. Um so thank you Mr.chair and um exactly what the chair said, but um a couple of other pieces tothis that I think are gerine or important to understand. Uh I boardmembers, I I sent you a read ahead on this. Obviously, there's information inthe packet. It's it's the same information. Um one of the biggestchallenges uh with elections is the heavy amount of administrationassociated with it. And just for historical context in the district, theexecutive assistant to the superintendent is the lead on that andhas been in the time I've been in the district and before uh going going backto Mary Manning and uh and be and before that and um one of the challenges thatwe have is we have to do all of the pieces and back about 2012 orish. Um the city had uh helped us out a lot um in terms of giving us uh supportfrom their uh election office whether we were in a general election or a specialelection. Um and then that kind of dwindled away u probably about 2017 or18 there was some change over in the office there and it's really been on onus especially for non-general elections. Okay. We don't have a special staff forthat. We have an individual that's uh in the personage of Kim Ellson now. Um andI think the record should reflect that uh she's done a fabulous job of makingsure that the elections have gone according to requirements.Um I will also say thatthe process for elections has matured over the years. Uh and the the scenariosof you can only go to a polling place and you have to stand in line>> [clears throat] >> um are days of your and your spelled y or e. um that's not a thing any longer. Um andso in the contemporary operating environment of how elections are heldtoday, um I think that it merits ourconsideration and we of course want to answer your questions, but merits ourconsideration to bring this back and have a conversation about consolidation, reducing the number ofpolling places. So as the information shared there um when you see a pollingplace you have all the judges you have all the equipment and then you have alot of regulation that you have to operate under um in order to carry outthat election with fidelity and efficacy uh which is always our goal. Um so Ijust want to set that groundwork as we talk about this uh and the differentcourses of action and um our subject matter expert is in fact Kim Ellson andour guest would you introduce yourself ma'am?>> Yeah absolutely. Good evening everyone. My name is Michelle Blue. I'm the DakotaCounty elections director. >> Okay. So we have the Dakota County Guru.Uh and if she had a t-shirt it would say guru on it. Um, so I think, you know, mygoal here was to make sure that what your questions may be get answered andthey get answered promptly and with the level of depth I think you would want tomake sure you have. >> Yeah, Michael, just as a a generalopening comment, uh, Lakeville itself doesn't bother me for condensing uh,voting areas. it. You know, driving five miles should be nothing, honestly.[snorts] But the thing that I do have a littlebit of pause on is going down into Scott County and those southern areas where if[snorts] in fact we start eliminating places to go and vote, somebody mayjust, you know, particularly in a special election because the motivationisn't president, isn't Congress, isn't Senate, you know, it's it's themotivation's low. That being said, you know, if it's a cold and rainy Novembernight, There may be people who don't want to drive another x amount of timeto do that. So again, I'm okay in Lakeville. I'm I'm not necessarily okaywith going down south in those wide open and spread out areas. [laughter] >> Okay. So Michelle, have you guys donethis in other other districts and other areas as well?>> So every school district in Dakota County combines their polling places.Um, Lakeville is the only school district that does not. Um, I'm notaware of any school districts in this state that don't combine for um forspecial standalone elections. Um, it's so yes, they they all combine. Manycombine into a single location. Um, South St. Paul Schools does, theCannonfall School District and Shakape School District, which is larger thanLakeville. they combine into a single polling place for elections. So, it'svery common. >> As a practical question, how many peoplevoted early this year? Um, and was it I mean, it was located here. So, howdisruptive was that to the staff as they were working um using this as a place?I don't find that it was disruptive to the staff because it was me and then wehired [laughter] I meanI didn't do a lot of my other jobs for these guys but we hired three electionjudges who came in to help work in that election room that aren't uh districtoffice staff. We also had two district office staff that were trained forelection judges to come in and help as needed. Um I think that worked outreally well. These are the same people that also help at the city of Lakeville.And just like this is kind of a good part-time job for them to go and helpout the city. Likewise, I go help the city when they're having the election sothat I can keep fresh. This is like a language that you need to keep speakingin order to stay on top of things. Michelle has answered thousands of myquestions in her team to get all the nuances that change every single yeardown right. Um, so it's very disruptive, but we set up in that classroom uhpattern so that voters could come right in, vote there, get right out. So wedidn't have people wandering in the office at all. Plus, they have it's 46days that we had to be open for voters to come in here. Plus, we also have umthe option for mail-in voting. We per that people can sign up to be permanentabsentee voters. So on the 46 days ahead of time, we mailed out for Scott County.We handle the Scott County part. Michelle handles the Dakota County. Wesent out more than 100 applications. They would send it back. We would mailback their ballot. They would send it back. We would process the ballot. Thendo you know offhand how many you had for um Lakeville? I feel like it was>> it was approximately 2,000 I believe. >> Yeah. of of the early voting, absenteevoting, not just the day of. So >> the vast majority, sorry, the vastmajority of those are voters who are um on the permanent absentee list. Sothey're automatically mailed a ballot and so that's how a lot of them find outthere's an election going on and then they vote and return their ballot,>> which is becoming more and more popular every year. and they had an option tocheck on their when they were voting with us here. We could point out, youknow, if you like this or people that would call me mostly for the for theballots to be mailed to them. I could say when you get this, you're going tosee on the top right a check box. If you check that next year, you don't have tocall me. I'll just send it to you automatically. And people were veryexcited about that option. So, >> so I have a question. Why wouldn't wejust go down to one place if we have I mean if other places are doing thiseffectively and that would probably be a savings to us and then also we have thedistrict office open for such an extended period of time to do earlyvoting. >> It's a good question but when we havebrought this before to be combined even to half it hasn't been approved so I didnot want to go right from 20 down to one. Um, it's definitely been aconversation that we've had and I said, I just don't know that they'll be readyto make a change. So, this is why we wanted [clears throat] to talk about itand bring back what else do you want to see? Well, Carly, I would also say tooand to to uh Director Carbone's uh point around um you know, how far do you haveto go and um making that maintaining some uh and I think we did put all themileages in there for you to to assess that um thatwhat Kim said and the fact that we want to I guess not make it extremelyoverly consolidated. I I only worry that this might be alittle confusing for people to be combining in this way of like where thisis my precinct where I normally go, but like where would I go in this combinedfashion and how people are going to get that information?>> Um, so polling places change regularly for manyvarieties of reasons. um it's, you know, it's it's a church that has has changedleadership and they want us to move or this we we find that this building is isaging and we we'd like to move out of it. Um we respond a lot of requests fromschools who say we'd prefer to not have voting take place in our schools. And soum voters are are fairly used to their election uh polling place changing fromelection to election. Um we we don't see very often that voters are unable tolocate their polling place. Um it it is available online. Um we we do havepeople who who call us and and find it, but um but but every other voter inDakota County um in November was going to a polling place that was not theirusual polling location. So it it is pretty common.>> Okay. Thank you. Did you see any drops in voter turnout when you've donecombinations like this before or consolidations?>> Um, I I have not seen anything that I can attribute to combining pollingplaces. >> Well, we we could also consider likedoing a southern one and a northern one if we're trying to be more accommodatingto people. >> So, at least maybe going to I don'tknow. I mean, I appreciate wanting to make sure nobody has to drive a superfar distance, but also appreciate that we could do this effectively if otherdistricts are doing that as well. >> I agree. I don't like the fact thatthere's no location in Scott County for alcohol worked with.>> Mhm. >> Well,>> as someone who lives in one of the non-lethal locations,um I'm I want us to be efficient both froma cost perspective and from a staffing perspective. if all these other schoollike I feel like this is a repeat conversation. You name the topic likeLakeville just is not in line with our peers on on many things it feels likeand so if we is doing this and why school district is ginormous too rightand they have one polling location I I don't see the argument why we wouldspend more money spend more staff time when this is a model thatour peers are using for special elections. it seems like a waste oftaxpayer resources and our staff time that is valuable like we don't haveextra that sitting around right so for me I I'd push for consolidation into oneand I live in I don't live in Lakeville so I'm speaking from my personalexperience I think all the things that we mentioned about early votingopportunities is extensive and so if people can't vote on that night um theyhave many options to vote at a time >> geographic ically are we as wisetta aslarge or expansive as our school district?>> I don't know, but they have like 15 cities in their school district. I mean,it's it's large. I just know that cuz my mom taught there.>> I I just my concern and as has been has been expressed. I mean, we're looking6.2 miles to travel for Credit River. Um, I know voting's already down onspecial elections and it's just going to make it evenharder, you know, or reduce our turnout even more. Um, but no, I agree.Efficiency. I mean, if I drive by polling locations going to my pollinglocation, you know. Um, so I wouldn't have a problem like in Lakeville, youknow, cuz I'd still only probably go one mile. Um,but yeah, some of those outer areas. I guess the the point of putting this onhere because we're not voting on it tonight was just to see if there'sinterest in in pursuing this further and we can discuss it and circulatedifferent options um and different ideas. So, we don't have to hammersomething out today, but >> I think um I think I appreciate bringingit up um as person who just went through this. I think um just throwing out somenumbers uh helps put things in perspective. Um in presidential years umabout 45,000 people will vote in Lakeville. Um in special election thislast time um the number was largely consistent with one the last specialelection which is roughly about 11 12,000 people.>> About 2,000 people voted early. So you're looking at about 10,000 peoplevoting on election day. Um that's a lot of people in one plot one spot. Um youwould have to manage that. um we don't want to turn notso just keeping that in mind. >> I think that was a concern in the past,right? Like if somebody drove up to a polling station, there was a line,they'd just keep driving, right? And I think that was a concern with passingsome levies in the past. So, you obvious want to keep that in mind. I I do knowjust as a we did receive some emails about taking them out of the schoolswhich I wouldn't mind doing that um on a special election so they're notdisrupting the day but uh yeah no it's a good consideration if yougot 10,000 people trying to hit one or two or whatever number it is in one daycould be an issue. So, one of the combinations I'd like totalk about, especially while Michelle is here, is a change in the equipment thatDakota County is, and we're very glad about it. It'sexciting to see the new um equipment that they're getting, but Scott Countyis not matching that change at the same time. So there's a reason that wepresented the combination um that it was was called the supercombined where our Scott County voters do travel into Dakota County. So thatwould take that option takes away the possibility of having us go down to NewMarket or Elco New Market for the voters if wedo this. And the reason >> at Trinity, is that right?>> It prints them at Trinity, which is um depending on where you're driving fromalso right on the border for Credit River, New Market, and Alco New Market.Um I a lot of my election judges that come from that area drive up this areafor work. Anyhow, I just don't think that's I also think when you live out inthose outskirts, you're probably used to driving for the election day itself. Thedifference will be umScott County doesn't have an elections department like Dakota County does.Scott County turns over all of the absentee ballots. All of the work of theelections comes to us to do where Dakota County does the absentee processing forus. They also do all of the equipment programming, the election equipment. Sofrom our ballots to our tabulator sim cards to the poll pads that have all theinformation that work has not been on my radar at all because it's so seamlesslydone by Dakota County. They can't do it anymore because ScottCounty has entirely different equipment. And so Scott County has says that's whatyou will do, Kim. You will work with Dominion or whoever the programmers are.You will find a vendor who will program and print your ballots. You will findwhoever can do the poll pads. It's a lot of not that we can't do it. will be ableto do it. But it's just a whole another level of elections responsibility and umlearning because of the change in the equipment and the equipment that they'regetting which we went to um learn about and see the different options that theyhad. It is very exciting for me and for other election judges to see how mucheasier it's going to be. And so, um, that option of moving everybody intoDakota County lets Michelle and her team handle all of it for us and I don't haveto work with Scott County. We don't have to drive out. We don't have to borrowtheir equipment. It's a whole another level of extra on on our grounds crewand on me working with Scott County that I would love to, if possible, move on toMichelle's point. [laughter] So, is there more that I didn't missabout the >> It it it's it's an interesting dynamicnow with 87 counties in Minnesota and only five use Dominion and two of themare Dakota and Scott. Um, as as Kim mentioned, um, Dakota County isreplacing our aging voting equipment. We had been in this really fortunatecircumstance [clears throat] where Scott County used to use all thesame stuff as we did. And so we could we were able to program all of theirequipment, read it on all of our on all of our software and an electionmanagement system, program the ballots, do all that stuff because we had thesame equipment. We will not have that anymore moving forward. Um, the only waythe state allows us to uh to do that for uh for a any district that crosses intoanother um county is if they is is if they're really truly indistinguishableum me and this is what a lot of other school districts do. They'll they'llcombine them all. So Hastings has one precinct that includes voters fromDakota, Washington, and Goodw County. And at that point, they're allconsidered one single precinct. And then we have the ability to serve all of thevoters there because it is one single precinct. They they are no longerdistinguishable as a separate precinct voter. For the purposes of a schooldistrict standalone election, um they would be all considered in one all inone precinct. Um, so that is the only way that we have the ability um is ifthose are combined into Dakota County precincts. Then uh with the statewidevoter registration system, we have the ability to combine them with DakotaCounty voters. With our equipment, we're able to combine them and do everythingtogether. So that that is an option for you. But that that would be the only waythat we could um because other than that the Scott County equipment is is it it'sa different system and um and and they just they don't have the ability toserve that. So they ask um school districts to work directly with theirwith the vendors >> which is why you see an extra cost toobecause now we'll have to pay for all of that where it was part of our agreementwith them before. >> Yeah. So Michelle, will they will ScottCounty at some point in time get an updated system? Question number two isif they don't, is what they're using still sufficient to count votes? Andquestion number three is if either one of those things don't work, can we getKim more help? Because what we don't want to do, you know, based upon what Ioriginally said is we don't want to impede people in rural areas from goingto vote. and and that again up here I don't care honestly I think we can getefficient I think we can do all the things that we're talking about and wedon't lose a stroke but I still am worried about Scott County so questionone two and three >> so Scott County has told me that theirtimeline is not to be uh consider equipment replacement for another fiveyears so they're quite a ways away from that um but yes absolutely their theirtheir tabulators are are functional They're all still certified. Everythinguh all of the equipment that you used in November um that you would use inspecial elections um moving forward, there's no concern with it not working,not being maintained. Um that that is all maintained annually throughpreventive maintenance with the contractor. Um so I so so please don'tdon't um yeah, don't worry. That's not a concern. Um but but yeah I I just saidthe superintendent had made a comment about it it is a standard structure. Myunderstanding is every school district in the state is structured that way. Sothe executive assistant to the superintendent is the primary lead onelections and um and and and that that's a that's a great discussion for you all.It is a tremendous amount of work. Um that is why most school districts haveuh have transitioned to evenear elections because it is it it is adaunting task. Absolutely. >> So you mentioned that Hastings has onepolling location for their whole district and it's in Dakota County. Sothey actually have combined. They have 27 separate precincts, but they havecombined down to five. But but yes, one of those five does serve voters fromDakota, [clears throat] Good Hugh, and Washington.>> So there's no additional ones in Good Hugh and Washington.>> Correct. Yes. >> To avoid the extra costs that would berequired. >> Exactly. And they're uh those othercounties [clears throat] use different equipment from us. So they Yeah. So thatwould be the same concern. So, their voters um they always come into ourcounty and they they have for several years now>> and that seems to be working fine. Like from what you've heard from it seems>> I mean they keep doing that so it must be working.>> I haven't heard any concerns about it. Yeah, we it's it's worked for for aslong as I've been at Dakota County. Yeah.>> It is interesting to get the perspective that we're the only one. Are you say theonly district in the state or school district that hasn't doesn't combine>> that? I'm not aware of any others that don't combine their polling places.>> And we couldn't say what Scott County will choose. They listened to fourdifferent vendors. Everybody got to vote on it. We learned the pros and the cons.So, I can't say we just put up with this for five more years and then it'll bethe same and we can go back to the way it was. So, we don't know. I Great. I um>> the only other thing I'll frame is uh obviously we're not making a decision onthis matter tonight. Uh but I we do have uh I think it's by December 31st.>> Yeah, we do need to make a decision decision um in order to set theconditions for uh any future elections. Um, and then looking at our schedule,that really puts us at the 9th or the 16th.>> One more. >> Oh, sorry.>> I was just going to say one more point about the Scott County. We purposely didkeep those three together to move to the Trinity location so that when we areadvertising, we we can say all Scott County voterswill go to Trinity instead of if you were if you were voting in Credit River,you would go here. if you were here, you'll get a postcard of exactly wherethey're going to vote. And our comm's team is already talking about, you know,there's one website you can go to. So, teaching people how to answer thatquestion and confirm for them. I got a lot of phone calls from people, where doI vote? You know, we'll be ready for all of that. I'm not worried about theperson not knowing where to vote. Plus, we sent signs to the places that weredifferent so that on the door they see voting is at Lakeville South this year,you know, so people are going to be taken care of the level of service. I'mnot worried about that. It's a huge change for this first year and then Ithink they get it. You just double check every time. I used to vote at Hosana,then I started voting at the Latterday Saints. Now I don't trust that theydidn't change it and I'm not aware of it. So I go on to mnvotes.org or andjust double check before. Um, plus they can vote early at the Western ServiceCenter at that's Apple Valley and in Hastings ifpeople are out and about and they want to vote. So,>> I just am thinking more and more people are going to be doing the early votingand especially if they hear they have to go somewhere new, then they're justgoing to come in and take care of it at the one place we talk about for 46 daysto come here. So, >> so this, so one, thank you K him for allof your work. Michelle, thank you to be here.>> It's I mean I think maybe there's some difference of opinion of how many weshould have, but this would be a reasonable place to start and see whathappens with the data. So if there are questions about does this impactturnout um we could try around and see >> Yep.>> what happens. >> Yep.Thank you for >> if we consolidated to one, how muchmoney would that save our district? And we might not have that number tonight,but I'm just curious like I'm cognizant of the cost and then I appreciate whatyou said like districts are moving to um not off year. What's the opposite? Notoff. >> Well, eventhat's something we as a school district need to start thinking about is notrunning our own elections all the time. >> We have even year.>> Yeah, we do have even year. So like when it's next year's um election, the citywill do that for us. But when we have a levy or a question that comes up and wecan't an appointment, that kind of stuff,>> all this money >> and it will be less expensive, but notwe'll still have to like double or triple the amount of election judges atthe if it went down to one, right? >> We would want to staff it so that thereis a constant circle of people. We'd be very mindful to handle a crowd, but umthe the facilities guys who go out for two days to collect the equipment thatwe have to collect from the places to bring it to the polling locations, setit up, you know, to come back two days later to pick up all that stuff. To notdrive out to 20 locations is going to be a huge savings. Um my time in going totest 20 machines is very time consuming. taking the city's pole pads times threeprogramming all of those just having less equipment will be a savings but umit's not that's not the only factor you know that changes to get much less withone or two but we could definitely make other scenarios to say one in the southone in the north I still um can separate out Scott County but I just we alsodon't know the price of that for sure Scott County and Dakota County saidsomewhere somewhere between 5 and 10,000. You know, it depends. I talkedto a couple other school districts and they're like, "Yep, you don't reallyknow until you're in the midst of it." But>> um they were fans. So, >> anything else?>> Right. I think if people have different scenarios they want to throw in thisweek via email, we can keep the conversation going.>> Yeah. Feel free to >> bring it back if there seems likethere's interest. >> Sounds good.>> Thank you. Mhm. Absolutely. >> So, our very first teaching and learningQVR. >> I feel like we need a crumb roll orsomething. So, very exciting. >> We uh I can't remember if we emailedthis out, but we tried to time out, you know, Emily and I were talking aboutthis. You know, how much time do you need after the end of a quarter? um toget results from the classrooms and stuff like that and put it into thesystem uh for report to the board and it's it's roughly a month after thequarter so this is really first quarter although I don't know that we'renecessarily looking at classroom data yet and so maybe that's more so for thefuture um sequencing but uh yeah my uh my computer of course needed toupdate and so it restarted on itself so I don't have it in front of me but Idon't know >> if I can just add one think to them asthat's okay. Um uh part of our conversation around timing was first ofall this is the first one so we haven't really gotten into a a predictable cycleyet. Um but just to sort of reiterate what uh Matt said you know we talkedabout first we talked about like like actual fiscal quarters which is like youknow July starts in July that's technically the start of our year wetalked about calendar year we talked about and so I think where we landedwhich is flexible of course as we continue through this process was tolook at when when do we have data that's accessible because obviously everythingthat's on the QBR isn't accessible multiple times a year. Um, and thenbecause the data has to be entered by somebody, usually the teacher orsomebody in our teaching and learning or MTSS um, integrated continuousimprovement department. Um, and then that data has to be processed to then beadded to the QBR. So um, so we thought that a month was after our sort of firstum, stopping point. um for lack of a better term uh would be a good place tostart. So I'll just hand over to our fabulous TNL team over there.>> Okay. Well, thank you everyone for inviting us in to talk about our firstuh QBR. Um I am here today with Sandy Georgie who is our um fabulous directorof teaching and learning for preK through 12 and Nicole Adams who is ourfabulous director of integrated continuous improvement.>> Um they are here to support um in any questions or the conversation that umthat we're going to have around the um academic achievement QBR. Um, I wouldlike to also thank they were very instrumental in putting this booklettogether. Our um, wonderful communications team, Grace Olsen, um,helped us um, with this template. Um, uh, and hopefully this is, um, appealingto you and, um, we can use this template to move forward with our other QBRs. Um,also our data team, Cheryl Gangler, Douglas Nino, and, uh, Garrett Nuto areum, just uh, wonderful in pulling the data for us. So, let me outline um thedocument that you have in front of you and you had a little bit of opportunityto take a look at. Um at the beginning of the document, we have our baselinespring data. And so, you'll see all of the areas under student achievement thatalign to the executive dashboard that I know Superintendent Bowman also umshared with you. So all of those are aligned and then at the bottom uh thereare two areas that we are sharing for a uh quarterly um review and as as Dr.McDonald said those are areas that we have new data for since the spring datathat we shared um earlier. Uh the way this booklet was organized is that umfor each data point we have a purpose and then uh the results and a little bitof a narrative analysis around each one of the results and then action steps.What are we doing as a district to address that data that that you seewhether it's um uh uh needs to increase or it's spot-on. What are we doing as adistrict to um best address that data? So um with that we are here to stand forquestions >> or sit for questions.>> Tracy, when I was looking through the the metrics, there were a couple ofthings that there were a lot of things in there that stood out, but there therewere two things that really caught my eye. Um, one is on on fastbridge. Itlooked like uh reading went from 51 to 74 from fall of 24 to fall of 25. And itlooked like math went from 57 to 76 from fall of 24 to 25 if I'm reading thatcorrectly. >> So, there were two separate areas there.Um, when you're looking at the >> That's a great thing.>> Well, when you're looking at the spring data, there are two areas there. One isproficiency and one is growth. And what you're referring to that was in the 50percentile that is the growth numbers. And when you see the updated quarterlyuh information that's showing proficiency. We can't show growth atthis time because growth goes from fall to spring and we are just at fall. Sowe'll come back around with growth and we'll be able to compare those growthnumbers once we take that test in the spring. Okay. So,>> and we and we also look at growth from fall to fall um which is anotherindicator that we look at because many times growth from fall to spring we havea little bit of test fatigue with our students. So, a more accurate look wouldbe from fall to fall and we have we're watching both of those indicators.>> Okay. And thank you for defining that. And the second thing that caught my eyewas the um failing one or more classes. And and I I know you're probably not umenthralled with these numbers either, but when I when I looked at the kids inmiddle school, uh 6 and a half% of them are failing one or more classes. Andthen in high school, just a hair over 18%. And it would make sense that ifyou're struggling in middle school, because education is to some degreefoundational, you're going to struggle even more in in high school. Um, whatsubjects are people crashing and burning in? What are we do? and and and maybethis is discussion for another night, but what are we doing to undergard thatand to make sure that uh we can turn those numbers around because those thosenumbers are not I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but that those aren't goodnumbers. >> Um so, first of all, to address thepercentages that you see, these are um in progress grades. We haven't had theend of a semester yet for our high school students. So, we're just seeingan in progress. How many students are failing? Um, as for the middle school,that's also in progress. Um, some of the classes in middle school are year-longclasses and so that that percentage will um constantly be in progress. Umum we see a little bit higher numbers at our middle school from last springbecause we did uh remove the least harmful F and that was um where studentsum uh uh did not get a zero. They were given a50% in place of that zero. And so we see the the failure rates a little bithigher because now they're getting a zero zero points out of a 100 ratherthan getting 50. And so that failure rate is a little bit higher. Um thecourses that we are seeing in um middle school it was ELA and math and at thehigh school the highest were ELA and um social studies.>> Social studies. >> Yes. Yeah. Um we do have um there areaction steps that we are um taking to support our students. Um one of the bigaction steps is that our administrators use something called an early warningsystem. And it's a uh one of our data dashboards for our administrators thatwill triangulate uh student grades, attendance, and behavior to um see who'sat risk of um failing classes. And so they'll look at that on a regular basisand then they will reach out to those students at the secondary school. Wehave our um APs and our counselors who are supporting our our kids. So they'llreach out to them after looking through that AWS uh EWS early warning system.AWS is technology. Sorry, [laughter] wrong hat. Ryan, wrong hat.Um we also have some things in place at the um high school like our our barprogram which is building assets and reducing risks program and that's at ourninth grade. And so those teachers are meeting with our students on a regularbasis to be able to um support them in um uh helping them with their grades,making sure they're turning in homework and they're understanding assignments.We have some other support structures like wind time, which is what I needtime. And so in during a win time, teachers are able to grab students whoare failing class and they're able to retach content that they might need toor give kids an opportunity to ask them questions during the what I need time.And that happens at uh both our middle schools and our high schools. Do youwant do you either one of you want to add anything more? Um the other piecethat we just recently put in place is notification to families and studentsvia parent square. Um and so we have a protocol in place both at the middleschool and the high school um so families are notified um in just in timeto be able to support um and in partnership with the schools.>> Okay. >> Um so one of the questions that I hadwhen I was reading through the document actually has to do with the leastharmful which is on page 13. Um, I wasn't aware that the districtdiscontinued this. And I guess I have lots of questions as to why because whenI think about um, elementary and middle school in particular, those grades don'tcount towards graduation because students are still in the process oflearning the concepts and skills that we need them to do so that when they get tohigh school, they can apply those skills and go up. Um, the reason that I bringthis up is because one of the things that I think about is if you have amiddle school student that's getting a zero, it's going to be almost impossiblefor that student to make up that grade to actually pass the class. Um, andwe've made this change within a year because I don't remember this last year.You can correct me on the date. That's fine. Um, but then I wonder whatsupports through MTSS have do we have in place to make sure that we're gettingstudents before they get to a zero? Because like I said, if they get to thezero, then the year is they're never going to dig themselves out of thathole. And I look at like a middle school student and what they're trying to learnduring those times. Um, number one, that's like the most awkward time ofyour life. Um, number two, those are the years that they're trying to build thoseskills of independence and figure out how to go in between classes, how toplan, how to study, how to write down homework. Um, and those are the skillsthat we're trying to teach at that level. So, I'm trying to understandwhat would be the benefit um of removing that from an educator standpoint.Um I >> I mean I get it for the high school likeYep. Because those grades count towards graduation. For middle school I'mstruggling because it would be more it to me in my mind it would be similar todoing the same thing to an elementary school student who again doesn't havethe skills yet to do those things independently.>> Um quite honestly we were not in this position when that decision was made.>> I I'll answer that. So the trying to align prek12 curriculum and align astandard across the system and get some uh continuity there. Um you know we havewe're having a conversation also around weighted grades. Right.>> Right. >> Yep. Uh and so it's what is what is thestandard and what is the level set for our students across the system. umyou know challenging all of our kidsthrough the system on a standard is what we're trying to drive to. So I thinkthat that that's part and parcel to some of thechallenges that we have in our system is that there's so much variation in itthat we struggle without the resources tooperate in these very in these varied methodologies. So,>> well, and I I would argue that um that's why the systems are into differentlevels because elementary is vastly different than middle school is vastlydifferent than high school is vastly different than early childhood and kidsare on a specific developmental track for what they can and can't do at thosetimes based on what [snorts] we're also teaching them. So it to me in a sense Ifeel like we're setting our kids up to fail because that's the time thatthey're learning those specific set of skills and we're not giving them theopportunity um for the supports to be able to dig out of that hole. So likeokay now we now we put some supports in place. They're out of zero. We're goingto put them into um a tier 2 intervention to help with reading andthen we're going to provide some additional homework support. and thenthey start working and they're making progress, but then they can't dig out ofthat zero. So then are they even going to see the point of doing it? Becausenumber one, this grade doesn't count and number two, I'm never going to getanything above an F. Now, >> I just I when I look at the purpose ofschool and middle school, it's not to earn your degree. Those grades don'tcount towards graduation. There's no college that looks at those grades andsay, "Oh my gosh, you got an F in sixth grade algebra.">> Sorry. Can I just say one thing on that? And I don't mean to debate least harmfulleft F and its value, but I mean you could say the flip side of that is arewe preparing our kids for high school if we're not fa like putting reality onthem in middle school. You know, you have elementary school to figure out howto make your way around. I have a ninth grader and I have a seventh grader rightnow. >> I mean, I fully expect her to be up myseventh grader to be able to make it to class on time and figure out herschedule and all of that. Um, you could argue also that with the least harmful,I think it's probably most applicable if you just miss an assignment and you geta zero. I mean, if you're taking a test and you get a zero, you know, you shouldbe flagged and get additional resources to help you. But if you get a 50%,>> but see, that's exactly my point harmful. But I'm wondering what supportsdo we have in place because that's the board's job. like our job is to look atthis data and help the district allocate funds for the supports that studentsneed. So, I'm seeing a huge change that was made, but I'm not hearing about anyadditional like tier one, tier 2, tier three supports for MTSS to the MTSSpiece if that's okay with you. >> Yeah, I would appreciate that.>> Sure. So, to be perfectly frank with you, at the middle level, we've done alot well at all levels. We've done a lot of work in um identifying our studentneeds and we have the early warning system in place. We have interventionsupport teams in place. So, we've gotten really good at the now what. We're notso good at the so what and that's a resourcing issue. We know we need tier 2and tier three. Um, we are working on tier one very explicitly right nowthrough the continuous improvement process of PLC's because of course ifyou don't have solid tier one instruction aligned to your benchmarksand standards in place, you're going to overrun and flood your tier 2 and tierthree systems. And to be honest with you, we don't really have those tier 2and tier three uh resources currently in place. Now, I'm not suggesting that ourmiddle schools aren't doing anything and everything they can. they've gotten verycreative, but it hasn't been um in a systematic response. So, that's part ofwhat looking at this data is about. >> So, then I would agree like I would saythat if we don't have a solid tier 2 intervention or tier three and you takeaway the least harmful F, then the students have no supports. How>> how is that supporting them though by giving them a 50% if they don't do anassignment? I feel like you're just masking the problem. And again, I don'tknow that we need to debate this right now. Um,>> can I jump in? >> Yes, please.>> I think it relates a little bit, but not wholly. Um, what I'm looking at with inparticular with middle school, kind of given this discussion, I'm looking atthe fast bridge results, I realize that the fast bridge numbersare comprehensive for the whole district. Um, but let's just say they'reare these on average about middle school rates like about 75% of students arepassing math and reading a middle school like generally.>> Do you get what I'm asking? So, we have like the the the comprehensive districtK12. Is middle school like basically in line with that or is middle school wayoff of our average? >> I don't have that reading for you.>> I'd have to pull it up, but but let's say it is.>> It's close. I would say a little lower. >> So when I'm looking at like the failurerate, that means we have like 5% of students who are failing just becausethey're not they're not doing they're p they're at grade level like let's saybecause we have this gap here. >> So it's about for me it's about how dowe teach middle schoolers how to be middle schoolers, how to be, you know,how to prepare them for high school. So it's not about do they know the contentnecessarily for some of these kids like and so I'm curious like are we and maybewe're not there yet Nicole like what with what you're saying but I'm curiousto know like of the students who are not at grade level for fastbridge the 15% orso are they mirroring the kids who are failing or>> good question >> are these different issues do we havelike a how to be a school or how to be a middle schooler issue and then do wehave like a I'm not a grade level issue And are these the same pool, samegroups, same kids, or are these there's probably some overlap of course, but>> yeah, I'd say it's probably a yes and and that's not data that we'vedisagregated for the purpose of this particular report,>> but certainly an area to continue to look and develop because you're talkingabout some developmental skills, social, emotional, and academic. And sometimesthose two overlap and sometimes they're not the same skill. So when we'retalking MTSS, it's not just academic interventions and math and reading thatwe're looking for. We also are really needing those social, emotional, andexecutive functioning, >> right? Because I see like 5% more kidsare failing in theory in middle school than than are proficient. So>> I I would argue then that these should be looked at because I don't think thesetell the story of actually how many kids are feeling. And then you get intoissues around school engagement as well like where you know what doesabsenteeism look like? I mean it's very there's not a one>> I think answer to Amber is um when children are bought to IST theintervention support team um those individuals that are leading it at thesites as well as the teachers they're looking at educawarehouse uh platform and all of that data is at their fingertips. So to whatyou're speaking to, they can see where they are with their fastbridge scores,with their MCA scores, juxosition it to their attendance as well as theirfailing grades to paint that larger picture for that student. Um, and sothat data can be pulled up per student. Um, especially when you have studentsthat you're concerned that have shown up in an early warning system. So that isavailable and our staff do look at that at a high level particularly whenstudents are brought forth to an IST team. Okay.>> And Nicole, do you feel like and and others on the tableto get where we need to be with tier 2 and tier three?Do we have the wherewithal and resources to do this or or do we have a gap?>> We have a gap. We have a gap. >> Okay. So, we can't service these kidsthe way they should be with our current model and with the current money.>> And that's what I was trying to address is that we don't have those supportsbuilt in for when they're flagged that they need additional help>> and that it's kind of like we're holding them accountable for things, but sorry,now there's nothing to do >> support for you. Right. Right.>> And I think too, Amber, it's when we think of resources, it's many things.It's people to support those interventions. It's professionaldevelopment so that those individuals are executing an intervention at a highlevel. Um it's the resources are they um high quality resources for interventionand do we have the structure. So for example when you think about high schoolwithout having a seven period day even if you had all of those other piecesthat still puts us you know at a disadvantage. So it's it's all of thosecombinations when we're thinking of resources. And I would also say that itI find it interesting that the ELA scores that you mentioned for middleschool because during budget cuts we cut additional ELA time last time. Rememberwe cut a section of it. So they're getting less time than they did before.I think that those just paint the picture of what's going on.>> Do we have I know we have graduation rates as part of this. Do we haveanything on attendance in terms of >> we do that is under the studentengagement part of the um metrics. >> Okay. And whether that's I think that'spart of this too is how all of those things interex. So attendance some oftheir test scores how they're performing school>> behavior. Yeah.>> Yeah. I think I'm interested in that too. Like this is helpful. appreciatethis, >> but this is only a small part of all themetrics, right, that we want to look at. And so,>> um, and for me, I like to see it all at the same time because these are sointerrelated. You can't just say like this is academic, so this is social,right? They're like they're tied together and I want to see how theyrelate. >> Well, and I know I have to remind mebecause I know I asked about this before, but we used to have Dr. Baronwho did a lot of the higher level analytics. Where are we in terms ofbeing able to like disagregate the data and look closer at how things arerelated? >> We have all of those visualizations inon both Tableau and then for the teacher level in educ.>> Okay. So we could start mixing. >> And then one other question just basedon um the high school like failing more than one class and then also kind ofrelated to graduation rates. Do you have um like of those students like how manyof the 12th graders are accessing like pathways for credit recovery to be ableto graduate? Like is there a certain percentage of students that is accessingthat campus or do we know like how many of our students are that are in troublelike that are accessing pathways? >> Can you don't do credit recovery atpathways? Are you looking for the number of students?>> I'm looking for credit recovery. Correct. Credit recovery is at the highschools. >> Is it at the high schools?>> It is. >> Yeah. Okay. But then do we have thatlike of the students that are using that resource to um to be able to graduate?>> We could get that number. We don't have that here. Yes.I appreciate the inclusion of the seven-year graduation rate just becauseit's part of the um um and I'm forgetting the M DCC. What is it? MCC.>> Oh yeah, >> not MTSS.>> District the collaborative. Um there was a lot ofdiscussion in that last I was last year or the year before about just studentstaking different paths and if you've been to the pathways graduation it'ssuch a really enjoyable experience to see how students have come back from thesystem for a variety of reasons and come to graduation. Well, and I think it'simportant to note that when you look at the four, five, six, and sevenyeargraduation rates, and you look at our shifting dynamics, our growth, and thenour dynamics, our increase of EL learners and our uh increase in free andreduced lunch in special ed, there are a lot of reasons, very valid reasons, whystudents would take more than four years to graduate. And they are um by law ableto remain in school up to the age of 21 in order to do that. So, I think lookingat just the four-year graduation rate doesn't tell you um who is graduatingbecause it will take some kids longer. If they're a recently arrived student,it might take longer for them to acquire English language, academic Englishlanguage to graduate. And so, we have a plan for that. I do have one other sorry, one one otherquestion about the concurrent enrollment. umthose numbers look really strong and I know some I I know we've kind of talkedabout um the opportunities at the two different high schools and has therebeen any additional discussion about advancing some of those opportunities?Yeah, we have um Sandy and I have both met with um Southwest State uhUniversity and the University of Minnesota to look at um what additionalpartnerships we could have um on either end.Do >> you think we'll I mean to that point, doyou think we'll be adding additional courses next year in the upcomingprogram of studies or >> um [laughter] Go ahead.>> This is a good time. Yeah, this is a good time to visit about that. Um wehave TAC next Monday. So, um, we have a couple of you who represent, um, Ibelieve it's Carly, um, and Eden Paul. Um, and, um, the areas that we're goingto be discussing, one will be college and career readiness as well as theprogram of studies. Um, we've put a pause on new courses for the 20 627school year. um because we really want to make sure that we have our processesour processes in place as it relates to the standardsbased review and to ensurethat those courses are aligned to those academic standards um and that we have aprocess where teachers um are suggesting or maybe proposing a course and rightnow we don't have those systems in place. So, we will be bringing umforward um in the Friday board notes um about our next steps with the program ofstudies where we are with that. We'll be bringing it forth to um the board in theconsent agenda on December 6th and then sharing more at TAC um on Monday on the8th. >> Can the students go back and forthbetween the high schools for those given the differences of opportunities or No,>> they can. We have transportation, but I'll be honest with you, um, we findthat that doesn't happen terribly often because of the compacted schedule. Astudent is having to make a choice between leaving and missing class,arriving late. It's just not enough time. So, it is, yes, the opportunityexists, but the reality and practicality of it means that a lot of studentschoose not to do that. So, >> because how many CU courses do we haveright now at the two high schools? >> One at North,>> correct? Correct. >> Okay,>> you got it. >> And that's like significantly fewer thansurrounding districts, right? >> Yes. And there are a lot of districtsthat for example, Ed Dina has been primarily AP for years and years andthey have stayed with AP, but they are also asking a lot of these questions aswell. And it really just depends on the nature and the need of the district. youtypically find concurrent enor uh concurrent enrollment was more popularin more um rural districts at one point. Um but then that started to switch whenum the office of higher education shifted the requirements for yourteachers and it became a staffing issue. So it's a very nuanced and complicatedissue and we have an opportunity here to really investigate it and research itcarefully and then choose it. I've been in districts that kind of wentwilly-nilly with it and then all of a sudden you have 19 courses offeredthrough four different enroll uh four different metriculating universities andthat gets really complicated and convoluted. So,>> and I would just add as a little bit of history um two decades ago we sort ofmade a commitment that we were going to be an AP district and so because a lotof times districts couldn't resource both at least not to the same degree.Um, and so we invested, it's very expensive to train teachers in AP. Theresources, um, because you can only use certain resources that AP deemsappropriate for the classes tend to be more expensive than in a traditionalclass. And so, um, over a period of time, we really ex extensively expandedour AP offerings in the district. And so I think we're in a space now too whereit's time to look at like where we are with AP and where we are with concurrentenrollment and is it some sort of a yes and which is usually what it is to meetthe needs of your your students and then how do we resource and support that froma from a budget standpoint. So um so I think there you know they're definitelyreally good things to investigate. I mean, we've seen concurrent enrollmentreally sort of explode over the past five or six years. Um, district lookingfor [clears throat] other opportunities besides AP to offer college credit. Andwe've seen, it's sort of rebounding a little bit, but we've seen a decrease inthe number, not a significant one, um, in the number of, uh, universities thatjust will just accept the credit now for AP. And so, that is a whole anotherlayer. So, we're we've been watching that for a couple of years to see ifit's is this going to be a trend where universities are really going to pullback from AP because then the benefit to the student is not there in terms ofearning the college credit, we'd see more kids doing PSO or more districtsmoving to concurrent enrollment. So, you know, all of these trends, they sort offluctuate a little bit and so trying to keep a pulse on that. Um but I woulddefinitely say and you two please jump in. Um from your training andinvestigation, the concurrent enrollment piece has really it seems that districtsare moving more towards concurrent enrollment and and maybe a little bitaway from AP. >> Yeah, we have um about over 1,800students that are involved in AP coursework. So you can see exactly whatDr. McDonald said. We did move that direction. As uh Sandy and I are doinginvestigation around concurrent enrollment, we are learning more aboutthe credentiing student uh teachers need to be able to teach those classes inpartnership with that university and each university that or college that youpartner with has a different standard for that credentiing. And so that's whatwe've been >> and even within the organization theuniversity from course to course there's different credentiing. So it's not eventhe same across the board is what we found out with our partnership withSouthwest. So the same credentiing isn't required for say teaching a math classas it might be for a psychology class. Um and they have different options. Soit's it's it's unique. Do you notice any trends, and sorry forgoing down this rabbit hole, where schools maybe have a greater concurrentenrollment offering that they have fewer students taking PSO courses?>> Yes, >> I in a previous district because it wasa more rural district, >> we had a huge number of students thatwere taking PSO classes and so concurrent enrollment was brought in asa way to recapture those students. So, and the data was very clear that thathelped students remain on campus. That being said,there wasn't a robust college credit bearing course in general. So, I thinkthere was just a general need for credit bearing courses. Um, and concurrentenrollment was chosen to fill the void. It wasn't the same AP versus concurrentum place that we're in now. So, it really depends.>> Sure. on the district. >> I I just wonder how many from a savingsperspective if we could keep kids from going PCO, keep them in our schools andso we're not shipping that >> shipping those funds over to thedifferent schools they're attending. So >> I would also argue that developmentallyis probably better for kids to stay in high schools.>> Yep. I would agree. >> Yeah. Well, and I think too um Carlythe when you have AP and concurrentenrollment options in the you will always have a segment of the port smallsegment of the population that is ready for college like they're they're justgoing to go they're going to do their thing no matter what we offer that'stheir path and so you know obviously you want to provide that for students thatare ready um but with PSO we don't that's we don't not howstudents have access because you have to get yourself there. So if you don't havetransportation or you don't have a parent that can take you, you don't haveaccess. So the one of the benefits of AP and concurrent is that because it'son-site, then all students have equal opportunity to be able to access collegelevel coursework. And so I think that's another important thing to consider umas we're, you know, making some determinations about what's directionwe're going to go in to best um support our students. So>> and generally, I mean, anecdotally, um you retainyour leaders on campus. Instead of them leaving, they stay on your campus. Umand that makes a big difference. I have a question back on the packet. Um25.8% proficiency in science.>> They changed it this year. >> It it is a new um science MCA test basedon new standards. >> Okay.>> And so um we are um at the secondary we are a little bit under the stateaverage. at elementary we are above uh the state average. And so at thesecondary level we have been working with our um science teachers and all ofour secondary teachers across the board on our standardsbased review and makingsure that they know and understand their standards. They're receivingprofessional development in uh in the case of science in 3D and>> so we have you talk about that. Yeah. Um Robbie Peters, who's one of oursecondary teaching and learning coordinators, is doing a phenomenal job.He is meeting um with those science teachers. In fact, he had a group inhere today um going over the three-dimensional um how do you developthree-dimensional assessments. And when we talk about three-dimensional learningin science, it's not just about the content of science, which we call thecore disciplinary ideas. It's about how do you deliver it through the practicesand the crosscutting concepts. So today teachers were in um and reallyevaluating what does a good assessment look like? How does it align to thosestandards and to those three-dimensional learning and to ensure that it is at theright level of rigor. Um when I was in um in the area today as Robbie wasleading, they were really looking at an assessment and analyzing it to see umhow it fit with those standards and to look at it through an exemplar lens andto really think about the questioning that we ask students to be very specificum as it aligns to what that level of rigor is. Um and so those are some ofthe pieces that we're doing at the secondary level is um going back andmaybe um revisiting some holes that we have as it relates to the phases in thestandardsbased review practice particularly in phase one. Do we have adeep understanding of those key shifts and concepts of these new standards andhow do we apply that? Um one piece to keep in mind is that across the state umthe scores were poor. they were not where even the whole state would wantthem to be. Um we anticipate that there is a dip when we do have new standards.Um and the science standards were um to be implemented fully um last spring. Oneof the things that you will see with our implementation of the standards is theELA's full implementation because we have new standards with those as well.So we'll have an MCA4 with the ELA's um which will be assessed um in the springof 2026. So if um if that pattern follows, we would expect potentially tosee a dip with those ELAs. And that has been the trend across the state. Um butI do think um a shining place is that um at the elementary level, we're um 10.5above the state average. Um which is is is considerable considering across thestate that the scores are are poor. I would just like to add that oursecondary teachers in um uh collaboration with teaching and learningand our principles and assistant principles helping to lead that processhave been doing an outstanding job on our professional devel development daysto come together to uh review their standards, put together a scope andsequence that's alike across both uh uh schools so that um all three schools sothat we have a guaranteed and viable curriculum and then they're workingtogether to um work on their assessments as well. As Sandy had mentioned, it'snot just limited to science, but it's across the board. All of our secondaryteachers are working together in their PLC's across district to accomplishthat. And it is just remarkable to see that work happening in our district.>> That's great. >> The secondary science test is biology,right? If I'm remembering things correctly,>> what what year of high school do we do biology?>> Nine or 10? >> Soph.>> So, my I was talking to my mom about science sports. [laughter] She was afree year biology, right? And so, she she was explaining[clears throat] that a challenge with um the sequencing is that you test beforethe end of the school year, of course, right? And so in order to get all thestandards in before the test, you have to accelerate kind of the the pace inwhich you're teaching biology if you're teaching in the 10th grade year.>> So I'm curious like how how we're reacting to that and that's not a newproblem. But and then I mean I do think it's important to recognize that Iappreciate the elementary being higher. That's great. And hopefully that willthat will continue to hold. But our science scores were 10 points lower thanthe state average. And I just don't feel like that there's no reason whyLakeville should be performing at that level for for science. And I'm awarethat like our our um curriculum wasn't aligned with the state standards.That that sentence that we're not aligned with state standards isincredibly problematic [snorts] to me. Um I feel like that's a failure at likethe teacher level, the department chair level, the principal level, teaching andlearning, all the way to the top, right? like at all these levels, no onethought, wow, we're not teaching what the test is asking. And so, it's good tohear what's happening. And I just I think like the pressure should be strongto get that up to snuff by this spring test. Um because I just don't feel likethere's a good that that's a fixable problem. Umwhether [snorts] or not kids can perform is a different thing. They're great.There's lots of variables with that, but I was not impressed to hear that we'rejust not at the level that we're supposed to be as a district with withour curriculum. >> So, what I think I'm hearing you say islike you're looking for a sense of urgency.>> Yeah. >> And I would say that that's all I'mseeing is urgency right now. >> Yeah. I also want to share that um whatwe see from the MCAs is a systems level problem. It's not the teacher problem.Um it's the system. we didn't have the system set up for those teachers to besuccessful to get the professional development that they needed to bestteach our students. And so, um, we're fixing that system. Um, Sandy hasbrought up, um, her the system that she had at the elementary school and hasbrought that to secondary and they are really growing and flourishing in that.our um secondary principles are so pleased that we're all on the same pageand the momentum moving forward is it's it's fun to see when you are there on aprofessional development day and you walk into the classrooms and you see ourprinciples and assistant principles leading the work of our differentsubject areas and the work that those um teachers are are doing. they really dohave a sense of urgency >> and I would say too like what I haveseen transform this year versus previously is that I'm seeing acommitment to the PLC process which is your main vehicle for continuousimprovement at that classroom level around benchmarks and I'm seeing thatfrom teachers um I'm seeing that from our site leaders and it's kind of beensupercharged by Sandy and Tracy coming in and aligning the standardsbasedreview process to that and we're kind of really seeing traction in a way that Ihave not seen before. >> I think another piece of thestandardsbased review process um is resource adoption. It's in phase three.>> Yes, >> phase three. Um we um are a little bitbehind in adopting resources or maybe we were looking at resources that weren'tquite aligned to the standards. I don't know if you'd like to expand on that alittle bit. I think to um particularly at the the secondary level um duediligence wasn't done in phase one and two to really understand what those keyshifts and concepts were before moving to a resource. And what we found is thatsome of the resources that were maybe being considered or maybe even purchasedor looked at um were not necessarily aligned to those standards in a robustway. Um, and as Tracy mentioned, that's that's a systems piece. Um, we reallywant decisions being made on best practice and evidence-based research,not necessarily opinion um, as to, you know, this particular resource is shinyand it's new. We really need to dig in deeply and you need to make informeddecisions and you're not able to make informed decisions if you really don'tunderstand deeply those standards and those shifts that are required to reachthose standards. So, we're trying to look at where those holes are,particularly at the secondary level. How do we fill in those gaps and how do wemove forward? Um, and again, I want to give great kudos to the coordinators.They're doing fantastic work. Um, in fact, one of our coordinators, um, wholead some of the social studies pieces. Um, as the teachers are now goingrobustly through the phases, they're like, maybe we shouldn't have consideredthis particular resource. It isn't really minded. And this is coming fromthe teachers because now they're being supported in this work and have thatprofessional development and the time to really look um deeply. Tracy, I I know we're going intofacilities next uh which is actually a discussion about a lot of money.[snorts] Umthat being said, curriculum very important. I I Ioverheard a conversation one time that if we had 18 to20 million dollars forcurriculum, we could turn this thing around.Is it is that a fair statement? Is it a erroneous statement? Is what kind ofstatement is that? Well, I I would say as um Sandy and I are going through someuh zerobased budgeting and looking at what we really need, we talked about umseven period day. Um that would really help at our secondary to be able at ourhigh schools to be able to offer intervention time to be able to offer umuh additional coursework for our students or additional opportunities forour students. um interventions. Um as as uh Nicole was saying, we are lacking intier 2 and tier three interventions and time and people uh resources for our umfor our students. And at the elementary um we are lacking in resources as well.So um 18 to 20 million should do it. >> [laughter] >> Okay, let's let's let's be let's becareful with that because that that that uh I I think it's a this is a wonderfulconversation, but I think we need to be a little more precise>> about what we're talking about. Um and not just say 18 to 20 million oncurriculum is going to solve. It's not going to. Um we need to be real preciseabout I owe you that. We are working on that. uh as a as a staff team to to lookat what are these what are to director Baker's statement of what are thesupports that are really in play here to move the needle on that. So this this isthe conversation and we are working to like put those numbers together.>> Good. Thank you. >> Well, what I guess I'm curious what doesthat mean? Like putting them together for>> Well, we talked about curriculum. We talked about intervention. So how manypeople is that? What does that cost? I just mean for when we're talking aboutgoing for a levy or a referendum or are you talking about in in what way are youtalking about that? >> Well, we know that the that the genedformula of the state of Minnesota is not going to provide us the the funding thatwe need. So, we would be talking about future levy potential. But that's abigger conversation. First of all, what's what is the need? So needsassessment, what does that mean in dollars? And then how do you go aboutpursuing that? >> And and I see Michael, correct me if I'mwrong, and we started talking about this I think two meetings ago. When when youlook at facilities, I I wrote this down, Lucas, because I I think it's a a reallygood statement that you made. Oh, >> it it's not how many students we need tofit in school, but what kinds of learning do we want to make possible?and and and in essence what that means to me is there's an integrated strategyor there should be an integrated strategy>> between facilities between curriculum between um 601 which is which the boardis responsible for for curriculum and instructional policy and and all that tome those three things are are intertwined and and Michael I agreethrowing 18 or 20 million Yeah, I we were half half joking there.>> I get animated about money a little bit, >> but but what I'm my my comment isare we looking strategically at the three these three pieces and looking atthe amount of money to do what we're talking about here, which whichultimately boils down to one thing. How do we get better academic outcome? Imean, blow the smoke away. That's That's whatwe're all here for. >> Um the rest of our mission. Sorry.>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One piece of four. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.>> Just want to emphasize that. >> Um Sandy and I and Nicole are workingthrough what a long range vision looks like for teaching and learning. Umbecause if Lucas is just planning facilities out without that long rangerange vision for teaching and learning then we're just planning buildings tofit people rather than >> there in lies my pointeverything that we talk about a seven period day when we talk aboutinterventions when we talk about concurrent enrollment versus PSO we needspaces to fit those students when we look atour career and college readiness and how we're moving forward with at what do wewant Lakeville area schools to be and look like five years from now. And sothat's the foundation that we're beginning to plan. We have um strategicobjectives and action items that are in alignment to our um strategic plan aswell as in alignment to the metrics that we have. And we're beginning to flushthose pieces out. We have a small work group that's um beginning to cometogether, a small steering committee to look at what do we want our um highschools to be five years from now. And as we grow that workg group and we beginto develop that vision, we'll branch out into um bringing community members andbusiness members onto that um committee um to give us some input. We willactually be working with our uh TAC or teaching and learning advisory committeeum to bring some ideas forth um to help us with that long range planning. Butyou're exactly right, we have to combine long range planning and teaching andlearning with our facilities vision and with a lacking teaching and learningvision. Um it makes it difficult for Lucas to be able to do his work. I thinkthat was I know I expressed a lot of frustration in our last meeting and thatwas part of it is I don't feel like there's this collaboration amongst thedepartments to figure out how to all bring that vision together because if wego to a le for a levy for buildings and we go for a levy later for teaching andlearning one might pass and one might not and instead how do we create avision for our community where we are bringing these things together thateveryone can buy into and support both of those things. Um,how long do you think your plan, your vision is going to take to do that?[laughter] >> Uh, well, we wanted it done yesterday,but no. >> Um, I 100% agree. Um, as we get rolling,I am hoping that we have something um together by the end of this school yearso that we can roll things out next school year.>> Thank you. >> I guess a question related questionthen. Have you been in communication with Lucas and his team as they'rediscussing the expansion plans and other options that are on the table?>> Yes. Yes, we've been part of the facilities meetings.>> I did have a question for Bill because $18 million came up last week. Youdiscussed I think our tax capacity that we have right now is only like 5 millionon the operating side, right? >> That's correct.>> So, yeah. So, we're kind of limited. >> 18.>> What's that? We can't do 18. >> Can't do 18. Can't do 18. So, how farcan you get with five? [laughter] >> Give it to us and we'll let you know.>> Yeah. Well, I mean that that is the challenge, right? In the resourceconstraint environment, it's like, >> yeah,>> where are you going to put the money? >> And it's more than just the stuff withcurriculum, you know, it's it's the pieces that go with evidence-basedpractices and professional development. and do we have um staff that is able toprovide some coaching and instructional models in those classrooms? Those aresome pieces that were missing in our system. Um and ensuring that we havetime within our day to do that, particularly at the secondary level. So,it's all of those things that come to together um that really is the synergythat we need for teaching and learning. And I think Nicole said it uh too beforethat um [clears throat] knowing that we do have financial constraints and upeople resource constraints. Our our principles are trying to be uh creativewith how they're providing interventions or how they're providing time to supportstudents um within those uh constraints. And so we're also trying to look atdifferent ways that we can provide uh support for our students within what weour existing framework. I have another question on related tothe EL work. Um it's from last spring on page three.um where we have the proficiency rate for um EEL students and it says we wantto evaluate the program model effectiveness as as our districtcontinues to grow with our EL population and knowing that we're not able to meeteven our own guidelines of minutes served for kids right now just becausewe have not enough teachers and too many students. Um, I see this as an areawhere if we want to really move the the overall numbers, we need to focusattention here and support. And I'm curious, is there any early early ideascoming out of E um that we think would be better a better way to resource oradditional resource needed to to support those students?>> Sorry, no. Um I mean I think we are definitely takinguh a look at just the program model and how we are servicing um our EL studentsand the differences between level one, level two and level threes and lookingat surrounding districts um and MBE guidance for um kind of what bestpractice is um for serving each of the different different levels. Umso I I mean I can I can say that and that yes and we are working in tandemwith um the teaching and learning department um to help strengthen theoverall system of that as well as um special education. So it is acollaboration. For instance, we um you know, we have alot of multilingual learners who may not even be receiving services, but thatdoesn't mean that they don't have tier one instructional needs. That's an areawhere we we need to really look at how are we embedding some of thoseinstructional practices in the general education classroom. It can it's notonly on the backs of our ELT teachers. So that is a conversation that hasstarted between our departments and really partnering on that and how can wealso maybe bring ANI funds which are coming up for the new plan this year.How can we maybe support alongside that? >> Any other questions?Good to move on. >> Thank you. What was I?>> Everyone's still good. Keep rolling. Facilities vision 2035.>> Facilities vision 2035. Okay. >> You good, sir?>> Yeah. Oh, >> yeah. We didn't have a>> Yeah. So um the read ahead packet that you guys havehad is kind of where we sit. I think we also shared with you the educator uhdata so that you could uh review that input. Um,I guess I'll attempt to cut to the chase here a little bit about um, and it goesback to our last conversation. The biggest challenges uh, as uh, as Paultalked about was how do you how do you bring the three major factors togetherand then shape a long range plan. Um, so as I assess the the situation here withregard to facilities, our most pressing situation or need isto have space for our middle schools. Um, the bigger question and the biggerlonger range plan uh obviously needs to be predicated on a TNL vision. Um, and Ithink that takes more time to develop. I think there's more stakeholders thathave to be engaged. If we look at the timeline uh of wherewe're at, and I'll speak for the time since I've returned,October, there's a a levy on the docket,literally. Um followed by a uh situation where we had an operating levy and acapital levy. Um, and the board chose torenew the operating levy on a board vote and we have to go and had to go to thecommunity for our capital levy and we're fortunate that our community supportedthat. Um, now we're faced with uh we have to fitstudents into our middle school system. Uh and that's imminent.Uh that could have been predicted in 22, that could have been predicted in 23. Um so we are where we are.um a renewal campaignuh with an articulation of an immediate umbond referendum or doing that in tandem together at thesame time. I I chose not to do that. Um, what I would recommend and where I seewhere we're at is a bond levy for fitting our studentsinto our middle schools with the follow-on conversation of,okay, what's the longer range plan going to be?I don't know how you would um do something more robust in the timelinethat we're in right now. And I think we also have to look at what our levyschedule is, which I've shared. umbecause you could very easily find our scenario being uh levy fatigue for ourcommunity. Now, I'm basing my statements on my assessment of my experience inthis community that we ask for what we need and wepredicate that on what our community tells us their tax tolerance is.We ran into this challenge uh with elementary several years ago and thestrategy we pursued at the time was additions and high view elementary.People can debate whether that was the right choice or not. I think it hasserved us well. my assessment. Um, and I think that'swhere we are with middle school as the situation has presented itself and Ithink it's my obligation to confront and attempt to resolve that and that's why Imake that recommendation. It does not solve [clears throat] the whole problem.[snorts] Uh, you know, we have to talk about a seven period day at high school.We have to talk about um how and what we need uh in terms of interventionists,tutors, special education uh andEL support in our we we spent the day today uh most of the afternoon today orthis morning talking about our EL program and our EL needs in the contextof Northstar uh and the Minnesota Department of Education where we arewith that. Um, so I I think that again given the situation we're in thata um a bond for additions is ourbest option. Now, I know some people have talked about another middle school,and I'm not pushing back on that whatsoever. I will say that if there'stwo courses of action with another middle school um and there's costs thatthat are pretty significant because you're talking operating costs forstaffing that potentially under one scenario and that is you have a fourthmiddle school. You have to do land acquisition for that and then you haveto build the building and that's a 36-month program for sure. Um when youtalk about staffing that you're talking, I think uh at some measure an operatinglevy um to support that um that scenario.Um trying to do that in a special election in May I think is a bridge toofar. Um,if you did a another middle school and pulled one offline as another course ofaction, um, you know, which one do you pulloffline and then what do you backfill it with? And there's different ways youcould do that. you could remove the the community uh lease, the building leasewe have here, uh and realize some some uh reduced cost uh with regard to that.But you would have to do tenant improvementuh on a middle school that you're pulling offline to uh fit say uha district office, a community ed facility. Maybe you could add somethingelse in there in ALC potentially or uh Southside if you if you went withsomething like Maguire, you could take uh uh and put early childhood orsomething as well in there. That's those are potentialities.Uh and and I know those are things that have been talked about, but without alonger vision, you know, does that work or doesn't that work? umthat scenario still is going to cost you umwith regard to TI and with regard to you know obviously building a new school. Umso I' I've run those scenarios in my mind and I've tried to look at where weare literally. Um we have an other challenge uh as well. Uh [clears throat]we have to figure out the u boundary adjustmentsuh in and the we have a decision that has to be made in January in order toset the conditions to do our staffing properlyuh for the upcoming school year and the fiscal year 27 budget. And that's a bigdeal. Um, so I think that as much as we want toshape tomorrow, we're kind of in a scenario here wherewe have to deal with the practical issues that um are set before us withregard to we have students coming and we have to fit them. uh and as as much as Iknow that's not the best solution or not the bestthing situation to be in that's the situation we are in. So that's how I seethe problem. Um that would lend us to doing additions uh and the course ofaction that we kind of talked about there. But I also think we can preservethe opportunity to bring in more stakeholders to shape that longer visionand accomplish that as well and and do that better. And if you look at theschedule, the the first opportunity that we have to go to our voters on withour current schedule is 2033. That doesn't mean and and I thinkdirector Thompson who's not here did bring up you know the the uh renewal in27 and the amount that that is and maybe the board wants to do somethingdifferent than than uh you did with this last one and and I recognize that butthose that schedule really is driving a lot of what our our uh latitude is withregard to going to our taxpayers and asking them uh for support. And ifyou're doing a campaign, uh, which, you know, it falls a lot mostly on me to goout and talk about this, I want to be able to talk about what our need is andarticulate that to our voters and minimize the tax impact on our voters.And maybe that's myopic on my part or a bias on my part, but that's what I'velearned about being in this community is that tax tolerance is a big deal and weshould ask for what we need and um that's what our current need is.>> Do we have the results of the survey yet?>> No. And and I don't have that either. I I'm speaking obviously candidly abouthow I've assessed the situation. Um, and I don't have the benefit of the of theresults yet um, from our community survey, but that'll confirm or deny whatI'm trying to articulate here tonight. Um, but I'm just trying to appreciate,you know, the the tax issue and not overstate it, but also not understateit. And uh I do really want to get at what I think board members areexpecting and that is you know what is the bigger picture and what is the thevision that it drives and supports our facilities and I really think there'smore stakeholders that need to be brought into that process uh as we goforward here. So trying to deal with that as well.Thank you for the opportunity to say that.>> So, I know we haven't had a chance to really discuss a lot of this and ouropinions on it. And so, that was kind of the intent of this to see whereeverybody's at. Do we continue plowing forward on this path? And at some point,we have to make a decision if we're going to do this in May. Um, if you havequestions, I have asked Michael about timing wise, like does it have to be inMay? Can we extend it out a little bit more for discussions? And there'sconcern about the build schedule and apparently we have to give um MDEthat if you'd like >> a six-month review period before we canactually so if people have questions about that he can explain it cuz>> do you want me to just kind of review that timeline for everybody or>> is that helpful? >> I mean there there is a timeline I guessand we can provide it maybe Friday notes unless people want to hear it right now.But I guess I'm curious on the board to see what>> what you guys think where you're at on this process.>> Can I just play out one scenario? >> This is not going to be a popularscenario. I already know that it but it's my kid is one of them that would beaffected by this. So I fully appreciate that.In looking at the data, I don't have it up in front of me, but if I'm recallingthings correctly, we could fit everyone in the middleschools as is and they would all be similar toCentury at the moment. They'd be very full. And I I fully recognize that andit would be like two years of like you got too definitely have too many kidsbut it could if centuries work making it work right now. Could there be ever asituation where we make do to hold out for a long for a biggerplan? And I don't know if that's a good option ornot, but it's something that I've been thinking aboutjust like instead of just like being like, "Yep,we need to do additions. We just need to build and add right away."Do we have the ability I know it'd be crowded to like take a breath and ummanage for two years? I know you're like thinking like this nuts, but>> Well, I'm I'm not thinking you're nuts at all. I mean, I I you [laughter] know,the the reality the truth, too, is if if theif we do, let's just say we go for a bond and and we're going to doadditions. I realize that's not where everybody's at.>> Um it could fail, >> right? And then we'd have to do this>> and then we would be there. >> Yeah.>> Um but I again, it's well, I'll just leave it at that. I mean that that's athat's not an unrealistic uh scenario for us. And>> to to your point like I've thought about that too because um I get that the classthat's coming up is big, right? But then I look at our numbers and the enrollmentis slowing enough that once [snorts] this class is through, right? My concernis that if we do the short-term solution now, by the time that's in place, thatclass will be at the high school or be getting ready for the high school. Andthat same class is going to cause the same problem there.>> Well, that's >> and I don't want to be reactionary likeI want to be thoughtful and painful. Um, with the with the taxpayers's money andthen with also the resources that we need. So, um,I I I see what you're saying like and I'm not for or against anything yet. I'mjust like thinking >> but the problem is you also have toassume growth too you know looking at the developments that are going in andif you don't plan for that growth you know then we could be in a situationwhere every school is like high or like high view or century right now>> for us are low then >> and then it's too late and you want totalk about being reactive then we'd be reactive right>> um what what do you mean by short-term fix just expansions or>> I was thinking if we just boundary adjustments>> the short-term fix and just fix the middle school issue and add theexpansions on right now. >> Then we'll just be finishing that andthen that class will be getting ready for the high school and the high schoolsare going to have the same issue too. So my thought around it was I I do feellike the middle schools obviously there's there's an issue there and weneed to figure out how we're going to address that. But my my thought wascould we access the land that's by south and have a career center and a middleand add on the middle schools at the same time, right? So that way we're kindof taking care of both issues for the same class that's coming through becausethat career center would pull some of the students from both high schools intothat, right? And we have a very robust chamber of commerce that I think wouldsupport like career pathways and different things that we could do thatwe've wanted to do that we don't have the space for like on our our visionlist that we have here. I I see your vision. I feel it. Um but it would alsotake care of the space for Pathways Academy because I don't feel like that'sa great student space and then would provide more space back into um Kenwoodwhere they're at now. Um, [snorts] I just I just think like there's there'stwo issues there with the same class. >> The fourth grade it's a fourth gradeclass right now. So by 2028 when these would theoretically be done, they'd beentering into middle school, >> right? But then it still takes threeyears to build, right? >> When they go to the high school, you'dbe like, you'd be planning for them every three years essentially.>> Yes, that's what I'm saying. >> Well, that's that's part of phase two,which that is a must-solve problem for the high schools. there is going to be acapacity issue of some shape, form or fashion that will need to be solved,>> right? >> That starts essentially in the fall of2030. And if you kind of recall back to the slides on November 11th, that build,you know, design build, this conversation will occur sometime in2027. So we can go through that cycle to sir your point, Michael's point and andTracy's with the long-term vision. Maybe that is where you are taking I'll justcall it a big bite out of the apple in terms of we have a vision for ALC thatwe can see and clearly articulate. We have a vision for special educationpopulation for all the populations and then we take that bigger bite of theapple in the 27 time frame that will you know in a sense solve a lot of yourproblems that we kind of see now but don't need to be solved right now.>> What needs to be solved right now to Michael's point is the middle schoolcapacity problem. And if you look at if you look over time and you go in the outyears and recognizing that that gets a little bit um you know less accurate butwe continue to grow and so there'll be there'll continue to be a need for thatmiddle school population for that capacity and to your pointsit may change it may go up and it may go down. If it goes up in terms of need,reaction time is at a minimum two years. Even if you were to say go right now,it's a two-year lead time. So, by adding some capacity to our middle school,you're going to solve you're going to you're going to have enough space toaccount for that unexpected growth either up or down in your middleschools. Taking a minimalist approach will allow you the space uh in terms oftime and money to kind of look at that vision, the strategy for all the otherthings and then take a more deliberate you know bite out of that apple when thetime comes in my estimation probably in 27. Um>> but she could do it with multiple questions. Like, see, that's the otherthing I'm saying. Like, do we >> do we take the bigger bite of the applenow, or do we risk levy fatigue and say, "We're just going to do the additionsnow. Now, we're going to do this, now we're going to do that by doing likemultiple questions and say like question one is just the additions on the middleschool. And question two is, do we want to build the career pathway center atthe same time that we're doing the middle school editions?" So, that waythis class is taken care of for quite a while and we don't have to come back tothe taxpayers for a while. I'm just saying like we can be creative in notonly how we frame those questions and the way that we put them on ballot, butthen also in how we're planning for this specific issue.>> Yeah, I would I would say that's that's um that makes a lot of sense. Um I wantto also get back to the conversation about our middle schools and if we donothing. So my biggest concern with Century is able to handle this. I don'tthink Ken would the common spaces.>> I don't think they could handle the thousand. Um, you know, maybe you canjam them into the classrooms, but the cafeteria,um, >> we'd have to pay some like people todirect traffic >> and the gym I think would be highlyproblematic for us. Um, you do what you have to do. Um and and I'm not disputingthat, but um kind of back to your uh statement around, you know, you couldshape two questions um and it's still and you can even do questionsthat are contingent, >> right? So, uh, you know, if there'sother things than an addition, I just want to be carefulabout what problems are we solving and whatconditions can we set for the future and bringing those things in alignment andand doing that work like this work can't stop,>> right? >> It has to keep plowing and keep going.uh so that we fit into the levy schedule and we fit into what our communitygrowth is and being very iterative about looking atall those pieces like how many people are moving in, what's our enrollment andand just being vigilant about that and bringing that to the board consistentlyand constantly. but shaping uh again I think there's more stakeholders thatneed to to be brought into that bigger visionum to build that the coalition of support that we need for a a biggeropportunity and I think there's we we need the time built in to do that.Lucas and and Michael, I I know there's not a money tree, but I I I think Ithink what I've picked up from your conversations [snorts] are um youroption would rather be the three extensions, the extensions to the threemiddle schools versus building a a brand new school. I I just want to be clear onYes. You >> two are I I don't need I don'tnecessarily want him to commit to that. I I'm not suggesting that you commit. II just want to get a sense of where you're thinking.>> That's what I'm thinking. >> Okay. That's what I thought. Lucas, youtoo. >> Am I allowed to answer? [laughter]>> Go ahead. I I just I just don't want, you know, I'm the one throat to choke.>> Yeah. >> So,>> I concur. >> All right. Thank you.>> Sorry. Do you have a followup? >> No, I'm good. And and it goes back tojust making sure that we're creating maximum flexibilityin the future for when those conditions present themselves, we can act on it.You know, high school problem set, all the other things that go on there,unexpected growth, uh those types of things.Just so the board's clear, by the 16th of that meeting, we'll have to agreeone, yes, we're going to go forward um with a bond referendum.Two, this is the dollar amount based on the different items on the list that wewant to pursue. Correct. And then if we want to ask multiple questions orseparate it, we can. Um but we'll do we even do we have to know that by 16 themultiple questions? >> Yes.>> Okay. Yeah, to what you just said about the packaged items that would beincluded. >> I I don't know if we're going to unpackthat tonight. I would >> I'm I'm I can get behind the middleschool thing. I'm not and and I get there's a there's a political will hereand in grouping things to get your voter base out to get them excited.I think the laundry list is way too long. Um, I'd rather pair this back anddo what we need and save our wants for a different time.>> So, that was one of my questions because I don't know, do you guys I sent youthis list of the different estimates? Um, what islike the the needs list if we had to pair it down like this is what we need?>> It's the middle school expansion, >> but what parts of that? because thereare many parts of the expansion that we probably [snorts] don't need all ofthem, right? >> Well, it if you you need the spaces thatthe problem is is the the the seating, the spaces, the classrooms is tied to>> basically your common spaces. So, like your kitchens and your special ed andall the other little things that go together. So, you can't say, "Well,let's just build the classrooms." Because then the problem you're going tohave is the kitchen cafeteria line will be out the door.>> Yeah. But for instance, yeah, auditorium, multi-purpose band, inquirroom, metal shop, um locker infrastructure. I'm notexactly sure what that is. >> Oh, maybe that's a locker room,>> right? >> And storm shelter. Yeah. Yeah.>> And so some of that's tied to to how we rearrange the space. So you're like forexample in Meguire you're getting rid you're using the metal shop to build thecafeteria. So you're just basically replacing the metal shop.>> Do we need $4.5 million worth of additional parking lot?>> Yes. Because it's a city requirement. >> So I can't as much as I want to get awayfrom parking lots. It's a city requirement and they will they will beout there counting trees and parking spots.>> So that's my I guess that's my question on the list of each individual spacewithin the schools as proposed. what's our needs versus our we'd like to havethis list. >> There are there are no no wants in thatlist. >> Well, we can break that down. I can Ican give you a read ahead on that. Um are you saying there's no these all stayso that the sites are the terms being used as equitable. But if we didn't ifwe said tennis courts can wait. >> Well, that's not a mandatory thing,right? That's what I'm I'm wondering too because the facilities list had like thestadium upgrades and other things on that.>> I'm not talking about that stuff. I'm just talking strictly the middleschools. Some of that stuff like the tennis courts may have to move because Ihave to put a road in there to fix the parking lot issue. So, it's kind of>> got it. >> You know, one one is required is theother, if you will. Now in terms of the other items outside the middle school.So item number one middle schools expansion and then all that other stuffthose were identified in the task force >> as needs in the you know from thecommunity. Are they mustd dos to solve the problem?>> Yeah. >> Okay. But the community has identifiedthose as needs, stadium upgrades, etc. that you see there, you know, numberstwo through, I believe it's um it's two through seven. Those are, youknow, not mustds, but that number one is to Michael's point, we have middleschool students that are running out of space come the fall of 2028. So,>> well, and the other thing, not that I'm trying to plug stadiums, but thinking alittle ahead, uh, you know, one of the challenges that we're kind of came insideways was, uh, we're going to be doing graduations at stadiums now. Um,>> yeah. >> So, that's a that's a thing>> that's been determined. Well, we're we're as a staff, we're going to bringthat uh forward as Yeah, it's but that's that's the staff action based on whatI've shared with you. We're trying to figure out >> I know that but there'sother options. Mhm. >> I mean,>> so one question I have, um, how many students are we able to I should quotethe the numbers and everything, but beyond that fourth current fourth gradeclass, how many additional students are we able to get into these middle schoolswith the expansions? And is there a time frame in the projections that we thinkwe're going to run up in terms of being full like when you anticipate that withthe >> if after the after the expansions?>> Yes. >> No, we will not ain terms of current projections what we see right now we will not run out ofspace. >> Don't need any middle school.>> No, we will not need any middle school. Could Sentry be bigger? Like I I know you havethe three classroom. I'm assuming that's two on the lower, one in the upper.Could you just double it up and go two up, two down for the expansion?>> Right now you have a grade or an an addition that adds agrade per or a studio per grade, right? So you have a capacity of approximately1,500. You could certainly add on a third level to that and have a three.Right now it's a twole addition. You could have a threele addition.>> It's just two team rooms essentially. >> Okay.>> Yeah, you could have another one. Then you would have a very large middleschool at 18. start to run into some sight constraintsthough because it is relatively small for a middle school site.>> Sure. >> So you can you add you add students, youadd parking requirements essentially. >> To our earlier discussions, do weimagine keeping our teaming model? Like I feel like we're basing a lot of thebuild decision on teaming and is that what teaching and learning isanticipating we will continue with? Okay.for now. Yep. Um we'll review that um that structure as we review all thestructures that we have across our district.>> I mean that that is another possible solution if you didn't do anything. Ifwe were in that position where this fails because teaming takes upadditional space like we weren't in teaming it would open up capacity,right? We will have capacity issues in one yearfor these fourth graders. Is that right? >> I mean>> fall of 28, >> but they're coming in fall of 27.>> Correct. >> 28.>> Yeah, it will come in fall of 27, right? >> Um 27.>> Yes, it will it will it will get a little bit tight. Um but we'remitigating that through some attendance area adjustments um to kind of mitigatesome of that and then by fall of 28 pending your approval we'll have space.>> Yeah. I mean there's potential that we could the city could blow up andpopulationwise and we could need an addition another addition. Um>> well >> depending how>> I mean >> rates go and building goes.>> Yes. That's always the that's Yes. We could always that could always be aproblem but we don't see that right now when we look at the city developmentsand and you know the economy and all the factors that go into it. we just see aslower but steady growth. And you know, to Michael'spoint, that's something we are going to be very um tuned into as we move forwardbecause knowing that when we see something, it's at least a two-year leadtime to to build capacity in terms of facilities. >> Does anyone have any comments on theother items besides the increasing middle school? Are we kind of set onjust focusing our attention on that? >> Are we talking about like the the listfrom facilities? >> Yeah.>> Talking about >> Yeah. Can you put that list up because Iwas trying to find it and I can't find it.>> It's in the board packet from last. >> Yeah.>> Okay. >> I appreciate Michael what you're sayingabout the bathrooms at the high schools and upgrades.I I'm not saying that's a priority. I'm just trying to keep everybody's mind on>> I just am not [snorts] >> at this point ready to invest over 11million for a handful of football games and graduation.>> Yeah. >> Given all of the other needs of ourdistrict. Like if we had of course it'd be great to have bathrooms. I'm notgoing to >> but I think there's many schools thatdon't have bathrooms at their high schools. I think we have advantage.>> It is I mean interesting. We you talk about the equity items like you don'tknow what you don't have until you go somewhere else, right? Like our our kidswill be at Kenwood or well I've got two they're going through Century and theother two younger ones will go through Kenwood with the boundary changes but uhthey won't know or care probably. Yeah, Matt, to answer your questionabout equity, um I thought I saw it's 53 million inthe budget if I'm if I'm looking at the right slide total. And I I have the sameconcern. I'd like to know from A to Z what what's priority and what's not.Now, Lucas, I think you just said everything's priority, but I I stilllike to get a sense of that. >> Okay.>> So, there's seven items on the list. Do you want me to read them? I think we'retalking about two different lists. >> We're talking about We're talking abouttwo different lists. When when we talk about equity, we just in terms of justthe middle schools, it's making sure that the spaces in each of the middleschools are equitable or equal to the greatest extent possible so that onestudent at Meuire has a similar experience, facilities, spaces atanother middle school. Um, and so that's kind of how we we approach that to makesure we raise the standard of our middle schools so that they are equal acrossthat because that is a big concern. I'm just saying it's a big concern of ourteachers and our uh community that we pulled and brought into the group thathey we have a similar you know to the greatest extent possible. Some of thoseequity items are like the kitchen, the cafeteria. We got to have,>> you know, we call it an equity item, but you got to have the right size kitchento support the population that you're going to have. And so>> it's more function or functional. Yeah. >> Right. It's more of a functional equity,I guess. And then when we talk about the other equity items, it's the stadiums,it's performing arts center, th those were all again identified needs. And ifyou look at the educator input data versus what the advisory group came upwith, it was all consistent. If you go back uh last year in previous efforts,all that data tracks is the same in terms of their needs. That's what thecommunity, our educators are telling us what they need for, you know, educatingtheir our our students. So, um that's where that is. So I I the equity term interms of the middle schools is not um you know uh a want. It's really to geteverything up to the same standards across the middle schools.>> So >> which is which is a want, right?>> Yeah. Well, [clears throat] >> I mean, we wouldn't have to do it to>> But looking at the the slide with the priorities 1 through seven from lastboard meeting, the performing arts center is listed as a separate line itemthen. So, so if I'm understanding this correctly,then >> the $130 million addition project formiddle schools does not include the performing arts.>> Correct. >> Okay.>> And all of those things underneath of it,>> right? >> Yes. There's there is definitely a perceptionof middle schools I feel like in our community in terms of what's the youknow >> shinier one versus not and I think asmuch as we can do to create even though I mean very similarly my I won onethrough Sentry and my my younger ones will go through Kenwood I have noconcerns about any sort of transition there and I think as much as we can doto create a similar experience experience is going to be good for thatperception. >> I attended some of those task forcemeetings over the summer and I can tell you that that was a very very stresspoint among all participants and it they brought it up time and time again.>> It's it's there's I've had plenty of conversationsprobably because my neighborhood switched and just talking with peopleabout you know awesome things at Kenwood because people are really upset aboutmoving, you know, so it's It's that >> we should keep it in mind because we'regoing to well aboard we'll have that same discussion down the road when weget to high schools you know >> right>> north is behind south and >> the other very large item on thepriority list from last board meeting is the pre prekbuilding right to build a new center right>> for like almost 40 million >> I can I I mean I I appreciate that Ithink there is a need, but I'm wondering if that should be incorporated into likea long long-term teaching and learning plan rather than just like tack that onto this. >> Sorry,>> I would agree with you. >> There there are some things on that listthat are dependent on a vision and strategy and there are some things onthat list that are not dependent on a vision and strategy. Mhm.>> And we also, you know, just I can't remember who said it, but we also got tobe cognizant of, you know, are we representing with this ask? Arewe representing the greatest portion of the community when we go out, whetherit's a one question or a two question, are we giving the community to vote onwhat they need in in their schools? Right. and making sure that we representthe greatest cross-section of the community as possible when we go to umyou know a vote in May. Um and again some of those things are dependent on avision and strategy and some of them are not. Um and that may help you in thatdecision. >> I think Go ahead.>> Okay. I think it I mean I'd have to pull it up, but I did look a little bit agoat the um the Wisetta$500 million referendum coming up and they had three different questions.>> You know, one thing I think has been a challenge recently in our community isif we go out for more than one question, it's hard to get both of them past or atleast that was the last experience. And it's also harder to get past things thatI would say are more special interests. And so think about>> some of our teaching and learning related items. When we talk about earlychildhood or special education or ALC, umI think we have to be strategic about how we pair all of those thingsto get broader support. And so that's that'syeah, I come back to like how do we >> You're 100% right because that's exactlywhat I was talking about last time where um if you just go out for a levy for thedistrict office, >> it won't happen. No,>> no, because we want things for kids and that's just not um the need of thecommunity right now. That's not what the community would like to see. So, we dohave to be strategic in how we do the questions and how we pair things becauseum those other things aren't the shiny new stadium stairs.>> Well, and that's why I I guess like if we were to push this back to nextNovember, that would be when would we have to know? I know that pusheseverything out, right? Like, >> well, you will not make>> if you wait. Yeah, >> we wouldn't make a 28 opening,>> but we >> Okay, that was my question that I hadasked earlier today. Like, can does it have to be May?>> Yes, >> even if we pushed it to July,>> we it has to be May if we're planning to open in 28. Correct. But I also thinklike is there something to be said for developing a more cohesive plan thatincludes the various departments and it is going to push back the year but thenit's a more comprehensive plan that addresses the multiple needs and we onlyhave to go out once versus going out this year and then in two years.There's something to consider too in that thethe volume and you know typical voters who are going to be voting in May aregoing to be categorically different than what are going to be doing in November.Absolutely. Everybody's going to be doing it in November.uh you're going to get midterms, not as much as>> um that actually might work favorably if we split this up in the sense that wecover the middle school expansion in May and then supplement it with one inNovember focusing on other items that we would want to discuss as part of thelong-term plan. um because you're going to getjust largely different groups of people voting. Um you might want to consider itum just as an alternative rather than putting itall into one or putting it all in together. >> We've done like you were saying this mayend. Well, I'm saying um in order to make thetimeline for the additions, >> it sounds like that has to be done. Ithink, you know, we're going to move forward with that. if there are otherthings that we're discussing and a lot of these items, you know, the additionalprek or early learning center, um, you know, stadium upgrades, um, while someof these other items, the performance arts center we want to include it, um,we can have more time to discuss the long-term vision of what we want to doas a school district and then start making movements towards that witha referendum member as part of Does that make sense? It's like>> Well, I understand what you're saying. I I don't Have we done that where we'vegone like twice in one year? >> It's I I would just say it's like itmight have to wait until I>> I I would offer that you wait one year because you're going to have to bond forthe high school problem in 27ish. So, to your point, sir, yes, you coulddo that, but I would I would wait one year instead of trying to do two votesin in a single year. gives you a little bit more runway to to get the vision andstrategy right. Be very deliberate and then you can go and and you can takethat bigger bite out of the >> I I do agree that it's not a wise ideato put on the same one.What's going to happen is people are going to vote for the smaller one andsay, "Okay, I did my contribution to the school district.">> Um and that's what happened last time. Unless you package it with reallymeaningful things like that's that's where I think being strategicabout what's in each question, what people are going to latch on to in termsof they're going to vote for. >> But it seems like our community has aharder time passing loveies, right? All the all the resource questions we needfor the teaching and learning discussion, you can't pair that with abond, you know? You can't say like we need topass this in order to build another like you couldn't make them dependent on eachother. Correct. These are separate. You can't put a bond with a levy in them,right? Is that correct? >> Well, yes, you can, but the theopportunity has to be in November. No choice to do it.>> And you can make them dependent on each other.>> Oh, you could. >> Yeah. >> But we don't need an operating levyright now. Right. Well, I think there's >> some of the needs would be moreoperating. That's >> we're saying we don't have what we needto do what we need to do, >> right? And I think when we're when weare talking about the strategic plan and the various things that are part of ourmission, the facilities is a really important piece of that, but obviouslythe instructional piece is huge. >> We're not dealing with that right now.>> I don't know if this is telling what you're getting at. I mean, there's alsothe reality that a bond would be more likely to pass in May than November.>> Yeah. >> Or whatever. I guess we can't dooperating in May. >> But I do think like peoplesaying, >> well, I mean,>> good to know. >> I do think people understand like thethe middle school capacity issue like people are [clears throat] talking aboutit. >> Yeah. So I would be very surprised ifthat didn't pass no matter when when we go for it.>> I I said that out loud on Twitter. But >> yeah,>> because what if you did the you know the essentials on the expansionand then you you added the equity as another contingent question on top ofthat >> about like a stadium or before>> I'm talking like the equity within the elementaryaries.Well, it gets >> because if people are saying that's highpriority and it's the second question, you know, contingent on the first onepassing, which is the expansion, then theoretically it should pass too, right?if that truly is high priority and more just a priority in the the thefacilities group advisory group that we had.>> I just we start to split pairs now with with the capacity versus the equitybecause you now you're saying well build classrooms but don't build a kitchen.>> Well no no I think that's a necessary component. I would agree but there areother things like $5 million of furniture upgrades. Okay.>> You know, I think that's a a want and not a need. I mean, again, I haven'tseen all the furniture. Maybe there are some>> I I would I would offer >> there are there might be some needs.>> You heard, right? >> Just go.>> Yeah. >> Yeah.>> Can I can I offer a good way of because what you're seeing is in in that brokenout pricing is just quite literally results of the plan that we have, right?You'll see you see that that metals room right as an ad and that's actuallyassociated with capacity addition right it's just part of how you expand thecafeteria because right now it is surrounded in all sides by room so youhave to replace it with something >> I think the way that you could look atand break out this pricing is through capac all of the work that's requiredfor capacity ad >> all of the work that's required forequable teaching stations. So, for example,Maguire has teaching stations or classrooms that are under 700 square ft.So, very, very small for middle schools. That was one of the needs that wasidentified. You have DCD rooms or centerbased rooms that are very smalland don't have access to bathrooms. So, that's another way that you could breakout this pricing and we can do that after this and provide that. Furniturecertainly is another one. And then I would break out the thetennis carts at KTMS just because that it's additional umcurriculum opportunities but not necessarilyI mean that's the need that it's serving.>> Are there middle school tennis teams? Where does>> things um Kenwood >> um could not host their own eventsbecause they didn't have enough tennis courts?>> You need you need eight tennis courts to hold those>> do they host live tournaments at middle school?>> Do they host the live tournaments at middle school level? Well, I don't knowhow you define lot but they yes they to all the tennis courts are used like allthese facilities are used all the time whether it'syou know district sponsored non-dist all the time>> I understand that but then like when I think about priority>> like as far as like teaching and learning goes like the tennis courts arenot going to hit the same priority for me as the additions to middle schoolbecause that fills the need for so many more students than the tennis courts.And then when I think about equity, I'm also thinking about like where ourstudents are learning in the spaces that they're learning in. So a DCD classroomthat doesn't have a bathroom, that's definitely a need in my opinion.>> A tennis court, you know, a big a big new performing arts center.I I guess that's just not part of my priority list, especially when I havelike the ALC students that are in a locker room learning without anywindows, without any cafeteria access, without any gym access. The tenniscourts are kind of down here for me. >> I'm kind of not to joke, but I kind of aBrian Thompson question. um >> he's going to be honored>> only one >> umand this is only because I I came from Eden Prairie system we have one middleschool it's gigantic right so we would never do additions on two andclose one to save cost on operations >> and then we we'd have a feeder system>> be big addition >> I know I'm just>> has that ever does that ever idea come up at all ever like where we would notneed and then we could still use the third facility for like the spacerentals. >> So you're talking about two middleschools. >> I don't know. I'm just I'm just thinkingabout I'm thinking we're not going to do anything. So we you know I'm thinking ofall the options just to >> it's not a bad thought because then wethink about equity with the three middle school buildings. Mu Magguire is theoldest building and it's landlocked. So, it would be hard for us to build anymore onto that specific building. >> KTMS is problematic. That's why we didnot put any capacity there because although there's space adding on is justthe geometry of the land is >> what's the issue there?>> It's pretty landlocked there. >> Yeah.>> What do you mean by landlocked? just one way in one way out type of deal or>> it's because the surrounding area like the marshy area the marshy areaprecisely so where you want to add to the building>> it's a fair question you have leg and amber>> good job >> the only the only other thing I justwant people to think about is I know when youguys were talking about capacity in these buildings the numbers are high interms of what is in classrooms right when you were likeso I ask people to think about like when we're thinking about when we wouldpotentially need another middle school like I would love to go for lowering classsizes so overall across the system but as part of a levy um and that wouldrequire more space so >> and more tax base. Yep.>> Yes. >> But again, if we're talking about thefeedback that we're getting from our elementary staff and our middle schoolstaff and our high school staff, it's it's how many kids are in theirclassroom? >> So, I mean, and I guess that was myquestion earlier. Is this too small? >> Well, and that's why I asked about arewe really going to be able to like how long is this going to last us?>> Like if you look at some of the charts there, we kind of ran the numbers.option one versus option two. And just if you look in the past decade, we wereat our our occupancy rate was around 80 to 84%you know over the last decade. And so we built our capacity in one option to beright initial occupancy to be right at 80% because that's what you know ourhistorical data says. And then we you know it was also talked about well let'sbuild a little bit more space. So that's where option two is. Gets you down toabout like 77% to give you a little bit more space forgrowth. And so that and then that just gives youextra insurance that you're not going to have to bolt on or build another middleschool with some unexpected growth. So to your point, the option two providesyou a little bit more space. >> I mean, there's really no reason not togo option two if you're going to spend this much money anyways, right?>> It's about a nine. million dollar difference.>> Yes. >> What's the t tax impact on an averagehouse again? Do you know that off the top of your head?>> Um >> if we just did the middle schooledition, >> the what we would do like we're waitingfor the survey to come back to really know what>> right >> what that threshold is because we canwe can frame the debt to match what's >> what the what the community is willingto pay. >> I see. Okay.Got it. It is. >> Yeah.>> I love that. And things have failed in response to, right? Like when we'vetried to keep it within that and then it I mean>> where you followed the survey and then it just still>> and so in some ways it's like to me it's we to do that you have to go we're goingto spend more over the term, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, if you if it needs to comedown, >> then we're going to spend more across alonger period of time where I think this is an easy sell to our community.Everybody knows that this is a stretch at this point.>> I don't know if everybody knows that. Like I think I think as parents we're inthose circles, right? And I'm just cognizant of like thecounty tax the levy that the county put on is like insane. Um>> 16% Mhm.>> Combined. >> Combined.>> Yeah. Combined. >> The city added Yeah.>> Yeah. I don't know what Lakeville because I'm in Burnsville, but like butthe county like right let me 10%. Because they hadn't kept up withthemselves and >> were we have to keep that in mind. Sojust >> of courseI see >> will we need an operating levy to fillsome of these spaces these new spaces >> that there will be some increased costbecause we have more square footage. We do have to have custodial support to dothat. There will be heating costs. There will be electric costs, but it won't beenormous. >> But as far as like staffing,>> staffing, >> teachers,>> the teach the kids will generate the money we need for the staffing.>> Okay. >> So, I'm not worried about the teachingstaff. So, it's whether we need more support staff in that particularbuilding. That will be added cost. But I mean, do you anticipate we'll be able tocover that in our budget or will we have to have a operating levy that we use upa chunk of that tax capacity? >> We have to make decisions on ourprogramming and what we can and can't do.>> Yeah. I know one thing looking back at High View and I still hear about thisfrom people that they were frustrated about, well, you built a school and thenyou went out for and again I think some of it's education. I didn't understandlike you can't you need the operating levy separate from the capital levy toto do it or the bond. But yeah, just wondering if if we'reanticipating that it'd be good to I don't know I don't know how you givepeople advanced notice but >> it doesn't sound like it'll be as much>> at the time. And correct me if I'm wrong. What happened with that was umthe unassigned fund balance was way up and the intention of the board at thattime was to use that to open the school which was why they didn't originally doan operating levy. Am I am I wrong? I thought that was>> You're right. >> Yeah, I thought that was what happenedbut then we had you know COVID and all the other things that impact ourfinances. So when you saw our unassigned fund balance tank so that was no longeran option. >> Is there any other information peopleneed from Lucas to kind of advance this discussion? Can we have kind of like an idea ofwhere people are sitting like what they would like to see? Sure,I'll offer. [laughter] >> Yeah, low man on the total poll, so it'sall good. Um, I would like to see the option to 100, the 139 million. That'sgot to be done. I would like to see a separate building for the prek, earlylearning center, and um the ALC pathways. Um I know from the meetingsthat this summer those um trying to find space for that was uh like trying to puta square peg into a round hole. Everyone's trying to figure out what todo with it, where to put it. If we have a solution for that, I think it opens upa lot of options everywhere else. Um same, you know, uh having a you knowseparate building that would also include you know the least space here,you know, things like that. Um putting a building of that nature. Um mentioned atthe last meeting that um the area behind the church and over by Lake Noel Southis too small for a middle school, but it could work for something, you know,something much more, you know, issue specific to something like according tothat perhaps. Umthe physical and safety and security improvements. Yep, that's kind of aneed. Um I I guess those are my needs. Um thoseare the things I would really like to see um other options. I mean I'm I'mopen to ideas, but I'd really like to see those things taking part of as partof this this um everything else kind of you know looking at the bigger pictureand taking a step back. Um, I think we really do need to have discussions asfar as what we're going to be doing for the next 15, 20 years as far as likewhat we see as far as a school district and what buildings and trying to mapthat out as part of a longer range plan. I don't think it's you know beendiscussed um to to a large extent as you know Superintendent Bowman pointed out alot of the problems that we're seeing right now could have been predicted twoor three years ago. Um, I think having those discussions and working towardskind of a longterm comprehensive consensus would go a long way to layingthe groundwork for the future. Lucas, um, on the facilitiesslideshow with the seven things, um, for the early childhood center that's onthere, do you have a land place,>> a land, >> like land purchase for that or>> 27 acres that we have? >> Okay,>> that's what we would use if that's >> that's where you'd put it is on the 27acres. >> Where would that be?>> It's right across from Tricky. >> Oh, where is it physically?That that's what you're thinking. >> 27 acres over there that we own used tohave a cautil. >> I thought it was going to be additionalon the existing building. Okay. >> I my I struggle with with the click anadditional building. I mean we got the numbers the enrollment numbers. I meanwe have the capacity right now to serve all of the our district residents. Um Ithink if we prioritize our district residents, they all fit in the currentbuilding. No, not uh early childhood special ed. Youcannot do that. Yeah, >> just so you know.>> You mean you can't prioritize? >> You can't.>> But even still, I think what was it? The umone of them were 140 over. We have 140 out of district people and I I think inone of those not special ed pull it up.That just seems like a lot of money. I think I provided maybe I did I might beconflating but I think I provided the board um some information on earlychildhood and um it there's some some dollars uh that we get that have umI can't get the word cautisil out of my head but have some requirements in termsof uh accepting uh students and I think the question was predicated on openenrolled versus serving our internal community. So, uh we do have so earlychildhood special ed is one category. There's uum supplemental uh financial support that we get. I don'tknow if anybody readiness >> school readiness. Uh so there there aresome rules and I'll have to go back and pull that up and share that witheverybody. Yeah, >> Small Wonders Preschool is that>> part of that or no? >> No,>> because there's 135 out of district residents in that program.>> But like we're not even accessing BPK because we don't have any space to doit. >> Yeah. I I'm just again this goes topriorities like we have obligations as a district umwhere these certain certain groups that we're serving here are not even anobligation, right? It's nice to have, don't get me wrong, and there arebenefits to it, but if we're not able to satisfy our financial needs atelementary and secondary, and we're going to spend $38 millionand additional staffing, I'm guessing, too. Probably need someadditional staffing for the second building. That's never a situation where I realizeit would take a long time, but through tuition it could pay for the building.>> Never. >> No, we can't do that.>> If if we build a building, we would bond the building and then you>> Right. But like >> the only reason that it pays for itselfnow is it's because we own the building. >> Yeah.>> Yeah. >> Which we paid for originally. But likeso you can never do a situation where like your tuition dollars is helping tofund a facility. I think the rates you would have to charge would beprohibitive in competition with private sector.>> Yeah. Because I asked about leasing space as another option. You know, couldit pay for itself if it's leasing? And I think even under that scenario, itdidn't. >> Well, we have Tony's. >> Yeah. I mean, I think for me, I think wein expansion on the middle schools or some variation of that. Um, I think wecan trim it. I would hope that we could trim it a little bit off the 139. Um,based on what the board deems are the the needs versus the wants. Um,yeah, I items. I'd be open for a second. I Imean a sec second uh voting option, but I don'tI see a lot of these as just wants. >> Yeah. And I would go back to some of thecomments I made earlier about the strategic aspect of operations, teachingand learning and in policy 601. I'd like to get a little better understanding ofthat. Uh that being said, I'm still leaning towards the extension of thethree and I I also agree going back to and theword equity is confusing me. I'm sorry. >> Confuses me too.>> Yeah, I know. But um facility equity like we need a bigger cafeteria makesall the sense in the world to me. And then you you you drop down into the theequities that are um sort of candy, you know, like a candy store. And I know,not a candy store. I see, Lucas. But but my point is I I think I'd like to get abetter sense of prioritizing that because I think if there is money to besaved, it's in the it's in the non equityequity. Non-facility equity equity. if >> I get what you're saying,>> if you know what I'm saying. So, that being said, that's kind of where my headis at the moment, but I'm still listening.>> So, my thought would be um I would be for the bigger expansions on all threemiddle schools, not the the more conservative one, but the bigger onesjust to provide that space. Um, and then all of thethings that are the needs with those expansions, the cafeteria, theclassrooms, all of that. Um, my second priority would be pathways because Ifeel like, um, when we talk about equitable educationalspaces, they're the only student population in the district that doesn'thave one. Um, and they gave up their building during budget cuts, whichbenefited the city. And I I think it's a great thing for the art center. But Ialso look that that student population has taken the most cuts overall. Andwhen I look at um some of the data that we were looking at with uh creditrecovery and graduation and some of those different things, I think a careerand technical center that wouldn't just be for pathways, would be for both ofour high schools would be supported by the community. And I also look at thatspace knowing that um with some of the um youth service learning projects thatthe Chamber of Commerce does um and special ed students have participated inthose um one of the things that we're lacking within Lakeville is a PACE labwhich provides that training for for our population of students which could be inthe career and technical center which would not be for just pathways all ofthose. We don't have a proposal for that though at all. Right.>> I'm thinking out of the box. Like I thought we could be out of the box here.So >> yeah, we just have to have a number onit though is the thing. Right. What's the building? Where are you going tobuild it? >> That would be my thought.>> I think for me I can get behind option two. Um for the middle schools. Ithink after our discussion today, it seems like the line item um spreadsheetthat um I forget Michael Lucas provided for the middle schools, there are veryfew things that could really be eliminated. I I I at the time had I hadthe auditorium linked in with it all. So I think for me that was one thing likewe really need to build another auditorium and so I think for me that'slike the the optional thing that might not need to happen for the middleschools at this point but um I think other other line items I mean tenniscourts you have like hardly it's really a very small part of the budget. Sothat's where I'm at. >> I agree with the security stuff though.I feel like that needs to happen. >> I'd like to learn more about that likewhat exactly is included. I feel like our district has spent more money thanthan any really on safety and security. And so I just want to better understandlike what more are we going to be doing. Um and if you want to go over that nowthat's fine. Um however if that's and I think what the task force showed andmaybe the survey will show is like because of because of the climate inwhich we live that's an easy thing to pass. And so would that rally votes? AndI don't really like the correlation between those two things, you know? Ithink that's like using fear to drive budgets, but um and not so but if that'swhat we need to do, that's what we need to do.>> I know some of it had to do with cameras.>> Well, I I can provide you a more detailed list, but very broadly it'sit's it's over 10 years, too. So, a lot of this is life cycle replacements. Someof it is, you know, closing, you know, some newly identified needs now thatwe're using the system. So, again, it's just about making our safety andsecurity robust. Um, over time, um, and then as things age, it's being able tohave those funds to replace the things that we use now. So, um, I can providean additional level of detail for you to>> So, it's mainly to support 3D responses infrastructure>> in part. Yes. Okay. I still have a lot of thinking to do.I I'm worried we're going to get out to the 33 35 time range and we're going toneed another middle school. Um >> I think the economy could shift. I thinkthere's a lot of Lakeville to grow and um in that time frame we're not going topass anything else. >> Be high schools then. Yeah. Um,and so I would rather pause and bring our departments together and see if wecan develop a more um robust plan that [clears throat]doesn't cause us going out repeatedly. As I'm looking at the YZ1, it's it isit's a huge levy, $465 [clears throat and cough] million fora new elementary, a new middle, and high school expansion and upgrades. Um, andso they're bustling all of that together. Um, they're a different district. They don'thave they probably have a different tax than we do. And I just think ourcommunity is tired of getting levy after levy after levy. Um, so I don't I doagree that we need to go for what we need, but my worry is it's going to besimilar to the elementarymentaries where we have the expansion and we have tocome back and ask for you. I think that's everybody. Allright. >> Um, we're back we're back here again ina week >> and then another week after that. So,any other questions for Lucas? >> Do you think we'll be able to come to aconsensus vote next week? >> Next week, I would say no, but uh I meanI would say the 16th is probably the >> Is the survey data coming next week?>> Yeah, we should have that. >> Okay. So, we're just I I Ithe 23rd is like the red line in the sand>> and we need some time. So, once you say this is the answer,>> that's going to trigger a devel a proposal development team to go writethe thing that you approved. >> Sure.>> And then you'll, you know, you and the superintendent will need to sign that.But that takes a little bit of time. The 23rd is a hard date. Like,>> what what more information would each board member need? Yeah.>> In order to like it seems like we I don't know what else we would needbetween now and the 23rd like why we couldn't do this on the 16th.>> Oh, no. No. I say we we would do it by the 16th>> or sorry, next week is what day? >> The 9th.>> We don't have the survey. >> We'll have the survey data.>> The survey data will be that next. It will be that night.>> I mean, we could put it on for a vote next week and if we're ready,>> we always like say no, we're not ready. We could.>> Yeah. But at least we could if the survey data comes out and it's like waydifferent than what we think. >> Yeah. I mean, if you guys have otherquestions of Lucas, make sure you get it to him before next week.>> I'm here for 24/7. >> Matt, will you be following up withBrian so that he has information from tonight's meeting?>> Mhm. >> All right.>> Thank you. >> Didn't we dismiss a bunch of stuff?>> Yep. I already did. >> Oh, okay.Everyone else saying uh last item. We can make this quick.>> I don't know what's happening. I'm out. >> Thank you all.>> You had his He didn't say that on yours. Did you see that?>> I mean, this isn't the actual discussion on it.>> I understand. >> Okay.>> They don't want this. >> Yeah.>> Watch. Thank you. >> All right.>> Seems like there's so few of us now. So, this is the rubric that we're sendingout to all board members. >> Okay.What? >> This was what we agreed to send out toall board members. Then >> okay, I just uh pulled this out of theMSBA thing and remove the unnecessary pages.>> One question I had about this. Um sorry, am I jumping in too quick?>> No, there >> I was wondering Michael if you'd beinterested in doing like a self evaluation. Sure. we do it and then wehave a meeting to kind of compare where >> and maybe we need a another a separateforward conversation before that. But I'd be curious to like hear how youthink things are going too. >> Yeah. So perspective.>> So we do this >> then we go into close session. Do we gointo close session >> without superintendent first?>> Yes. >> And talk about it. What?>> We're doing it right now. >> No.>> Yes. Go. >> We do. And then do we bring him in, talkto him, and then do we go out into open session and then have like a littlesynopsis of it? >> We do a close session without him justto um because like what what we do is like we all fill it out separately andthen they all go to you >> and then you kind of craft like onevoice. So it's not like seven different assessments of the superintendent. It'sthe board's assessment of the superintendent. And then you you bringthat crafted version to the closed session and then we kind of review itand make any tweaks that we need to and then we>> um give him our final version and discuss it.>> Yeah. >> I I' I'd like the conversation to becurrent >> and and future evaluation. I think oneof the things that and I mentioned this I don't know I lose track of time. Itwas a month ago in one of the meetings when we were started talking about thisthing um when Michael got his contract which I think was in October ago but twoOctober ago >> not this>> October but the October before right >> um I'm I'm not sure there were therewere any um requirements and let me use a different word therewere weren't any um specific metrics anything to accomplish? That was veryevident, I think, when when you signed your contract. If I'm wrong, please tellme. I wasn't there. >> He was interim.>> He was an intern then. >> He was inter. So, you don't evaluate aninterim superintendent. But there was a transition plan.>> There was a transition plan. So that was something that when I was looking uptrying to find things like um that's something that um Michael you identifiedlike the goals. >> Yeah, I wrote a transition plan.>> We did. >> There's some of that. Okay. All right.So, but still I think there's there's this evaluation current day, but I thinkwe also need to start talking about because time will slip awaywhat the next evaluation should be and what Michael will be accountable for andand I think when you when you look at the metrics and you look at theacademics metrics that we've we've put on the dashboard and some other things,I think that should be part of the next evaluation.a year from now or whenever it is. Um, >> end of the school year.>> Yeah, end of the school year. Thank you. Um, so so even though we're going to dothis, I I don't want to lose sight of the future one because again, time'sgoing to slip away and we're going to be sitting here with Michael and and maybenot having what we need or letting him know what we expect of him. uh so thatit's fair that so it's a fair evaluation and we're not uh blindsided. So Paul, towhat you're saying, like I'm looking on I guess it's page 20. Um>> like for the teaching and learning metrics, I feel like these align withthe things that you're saying, but are you you saying do you want a specifictarget number? Like he has to hit 60% and if he doesn't>> I think I think that's what we've been talking Yeah. See, um Amber Yeah. staffdevelopment, school improvement, curriculum, instruction, professional,yada yada yada, culture, etc. Um, but I think one of the things we've beenworking on for months and it came up actually last February was what are themetrics that we want to see improve, which in essence is accountability.So that being said, >> what are we holding Michael accountablefor and and put that in metric form? Now, not every one of these is going tohave a metric. I get that. >> Well, but that's what you're supposed todo with goals, but we never wrote goals for him. We did like the dashboard.>> Kim, my point my you're making my point. Yeah, I I'm supporting you saying thatlike >> this is like>> this is just a basic job performance of what a superintendent would be.>> But the accountability metric comes in when you write him specific goals thatyou want him to accomplish for the year. That's how you hold them accountablebecause like this is just like for any superintendent, right? Like>> but I think it's important that this is something less bombing. These are allcritical things that the superintendent's doing. Andre my fear iswe only will focus on the teaching and learning but>> but the part about like >> I forget the term but basically likeconnecting with the community to create goodwill that is>> huge like you the superintendent is here to pass lobbies and referendums>> and >> if they if that can't happen then youcan the rest of it >> and Amber I'm not I'm not suggestingthat there aren't important things on here. Yeah,>> but if academics are failing, and I'm not saying they are, Michael, but ifacademics are failing, where where are we as a board?>> Yeah, I agree. And I think >> I don't think we want to lose sight ofthat. That's my point. >> And I think the big question is likewhat is the number and if that number is not hit>> then what happens? >> Are we firing the executive cabinet? Areyou know >> and that>> um possibly I mean >> we have to be ready.>> Yeah. I mean, if that's I mean, >> well, we only have we only have oneclient. We only have one employee, though. That that's the difference,right? And I So, I went back and forth cuz I listened to the um meeting againand I was in alignment with Kim's write up in her evaluation form because it wastied to what we've been discussing. But looking at this in preparation fortonight, there's a lot of value here too because it does cover I mean there aresome things that I'm just going to have to put NA like I don't know right um howcertain things are going. Um, but I do think we can use,[clears throat] you know, some of the goals that we'veset for the district, which are really the superintendent goals and the metricsthat we have even to date, you know, for purposes of evaluating him under thisrubric, too. Um, and it's going to fall in different different categories. Ithink the teaching and learning one is a good one because it does line up withsome of the metrics that we put up. Technology is in there, communication.So, I don't I guess we'll see how it goesthis first round. And then uh so this is for us.>> So what's the cadence? Because like we've talked about this once before.>> Mhm. >> And then from that meeting like we wereyou were going to work with Kim to make this like a like a fillable Google formso we could do it electronically and submit results to you. Um, and then wewere, but that was already supposed to have happened. So, typically you do liketwo check-ins. So, we should have already done one and we should have onedue in like another month and then we should have the final one due in July.So, given that that time frame is not going to work, what's what's our cadencefor how we're going to do this? I mean, I think I send this out next in nextweek and people will go through and fill it out and hopefully have it back midDecember. >> I don't want to do another meeting inDecember. >> No, no, no. You have this back in midDecember. >> Okay.>> And then we can discuss it after the first of the year.>> So, we're going to do it on paper. >> Yeah.>> So, we doing this >> or digitally?>> Well, so here's the other question. >> No, I think we're doing this one.>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because this is the one that the boardvoted on. So, the question is, do we want to do one of the We had also talkedabout doing one for the staff. Um, which I think Kim, you said this is theone that was also sent out to the staff. The board and the staff did this one.>> Well, that's just one I drafted based on our board conversations, but nobodywanted that one. They wanted this one. But we did like how we did it is we didlike three goals like that similar to that format>> and then we sent out a Google form with those same questions to the staff. Sothey filled out on those goals and we filled out on those goals and that's howwe >> they did get that>> they did the same one. >> They did the same one we did but that'sone that I wrote for Ber. >> I think this is one>> that's not the one. >> Here check that.>> I don't know. They all look the same to They do look very similar.>> That's not I I cross checked that Kim with the other thing I sent you with thescreenshots of the Google like Yeah, >> we completed a different one via Googleform. >> Oh, okay.>> Yeah, I I think this is one I wrote after one of our board discussions forbounty. I don't think this is the one we did with Doug.>> Okay. >> Not at all. It was similar in formatbecause we had the same ratings and then there were three goals and then we hadwritten feedback for each goal that staff members could provide and then thestrengths and areas for growth and then there was just a general comment sectionbut it was like on a Google form. We just I just I made it like I justtransferred the questions from this to a Google form and then Doug sent it out tostaff. Kim Alson, is that what you were talkingabout when we're talking last week? >> Yeah. Well, no. I was talking about asurvey monkey that was sent not regarding not with the board.>> Okay. >> Is that the panorama survey stuff or isthat different? >> Yeah, he had something he had adifferent panorama survey. >> Yeah, he did that too.>> Yeah. But Kim, I think the one does this sound familiar? There were threedifferent goals >> and then we added a fourth goal later.>> Is that nice? >> To vans.>> Yes. >> We added it after our first check-in.>> So those were more specific to things. Yeah. So that's where that was Yeah.more tailored. >> Yes.>> Yeah. >> It was like overcommunication.>> This feels this feels very similar to like this. It's just>> summarized >> written in a different style>> summarized so you don't have as many roles like and so what we did is wedecided like what were the because this is very long and thorough because itcovered all the aspects of a superintendent's job role but we tooklike what are the board's priorities and our priorities for the newsuperintendent were um we were trying to fix the unassigned fund balance so therewere still finance goals we wanted communication was a big one because wewanted them in in the community meeting people, getting to know>> that. Um, and then we had the budget cuts. So, I mean, a lot of those arerelated to what was going on in the district at the time.>> Um, >> and you know, then you think about likewhat do we have going on right now? Well, we're going to need a levy or abond. So, finance should be a big one. Um, we'rekind of re re-evaluating teaching and learning andwe have new leadership. So there should be something related to teaching andlearning. And then he is in um just we're in a growing time within thedistrict. So being out in the community and explaining like the district's storyabout that is important in his role because the community has to understandwhat the school is going through. Have someone positively telling our story sothat when we do go out for a levy, they understand what the needs are. Because I mean this just takes a ittakes a long time to do it the right way even with three questions because we Imean everybody provided comments. >> They need to go through all the commentsand figure out like where the common themes are and yeah it takes a longtime. >> I bet you could put it into a chat GPTand it would summarize it for you >> probably.>> Well I I almost wonder if we don't just take some out of here for the staff aswell. you know that are not schoolboard specific. >> Well, do we want to do that now or do wewant to do that as like a final >> Yeah, this seems like a midyear eval andlike >> so just stick with the board for>> for now. >> Yeah, I mean I'm fine with that and seehow it goes. Um, and then have more of a kind of your wrap-upand you can do the >> pull stuff in at that point. Well, myonly thought is I like this one just because um it has seems to have more ofa practicum methodology to it and um but I took the board's discussion that wehad um and I kind of took pieces from what everybody was saying and then Icreated three different areas based on the similarities from what people sharedand then just created metrics for that like 1, two, three, andfour. And I used the format of the MSBA one. Um,which is this one, >> right?>> Yeah. So, I pulled some of the information.>> I think this one might be different, but but I'm aware of yours.And again, I was in support of that, but I think themajority of the board went wanted to do this one, which I'm fine with, too. So,I think they both get us. This one's probably just has more it's moreexpansive and covers more areas, which >> well, this might we could use>> I was going to say this might help us this round to do that. And then for thefinal, we could funnel it down to like thingsthat >> we'll figure out what's what we find ofvalue when we go through and do this as a board. And then with>> which one? >> With this one. And then we could trim itup for the end of the year. Do you have something that you said?>> I was going to say another option to do this one,but I would use this as my guide like to think like, okay, here's all the thingsI should be thinking about as I'm completing this and not giving a scorefor each, but giving >> and I think my only change would be ongoal three of this where it says align with district academic goals. I think itshould be all goals. >> It should just say strategic plan.>> Align. Yeah. Align with the strategic plan.>> Yeah. It's pretty broad though, isn't it?>> Or goals. I mean, >> no, I'm just saying goals beyondacademic and I think I don't strategically their goals>> because the first area is all about economic goals. So, >> we just can't send the big one to staffbecause >> that's a big ask. We've gone around the circle now.>> Are we? >> So, wait. Amber, you want the>> I don't really care. I think >> you sold me on this one, Amber. And nowyou Now you jump shift and left me. >> I know. I'm sorry. [laughter]I listen to Michael. >> I'm with Michael, too. I would ratherfill out the shorter one. >> I'm sorry, Michael.>> Go ahead. >> No, you>> Michael, did you suggest this one after I left? I I well uh Carly just asked me.So I I mean I look at the two and this one seems to have more kind of like>> you can fill it out and >> seems more practical and it's distilledfrom this but and and I'm not I understand that it may not be exactlythese written out goals but it seems like>> if this was going to go to staff to be able to fill in as well and there's aGoogle form for it. I I guess I'm looking at it from a more practicalbasis >> to get information to collect it to>> if we're going to go that one >> I would say we go back to the one thatKim actually drafted because it was aligned more with our discussions.>> Yeah. >> Where's this one?>> Yeah. I don't actually for >> you shared with me. Yeah.>> Kim drafted. >> You shar>> I don't think that's one Kim drafted. >> I sent him over email. I just know whatI said before. >> Kim must have changed it at some point.The one that I shared with you was from Kim.>> Hold on a second. >> I think I drafted a couple differentones just based on discussion. So, just pick the one you like the most. They allonly had three goals. >> Kim, why don't you send out to us theone that you think or that you guys are in agreement is the best [snorts] one.>> Okay. >> How about this?>> I I can do that. My computer's dead right now.>> Well, you don't have to do it right now. >> Okay.>> So, for instance, So, if you look at the battery life, Ihad it fully charged at the beginning of the meeting. So, that's where my batterylife is for this. >> Is that one we gave you?>> Yeah. >> Oh, no. Frisbee.>> Mhm. >> It's all right. [laughter] It's okay.>> Do we need to change it? >> It's okay. It's all right. Cuz up there,I always have it just plugged in. >> Maybe it is the same one.>> Mine just needs to be formatted better. And when I say staff, like we sent it tothe executive cabinet like I didn't send it like>> to teachers. >> No, no, just the people he works withdirectly. >> Yeah.>> Tony had fun, right? >> I actually enjoyed the discussion, guys.what you guys are talking about and how umI mean it's I'm learning what you guys kind of value as far as like how youguys are are discussing this like you know whether you want it more detail orwhether you want more practical or whether you want um how you guys worktogether. So I'm you know even even if I'm observing here it's just you knowtaking it in. >> You're part of us now.>> I am. I am. and and you know when it comes to this I mean I don't know howmuch my like take on what he's done two weeks I mean it's not a whole lot but um>> um if you want my personal opinion I thinkthe simple one is one that would offer the most opportunity>> the other thing I could maybe send if you're um if it's helpful you know I'vebeen tracking goals based on the conversations and if you go in my officeyou'll see them written up on the board. Um, if that's helpful to include or justshare with all of you and if you want to, you know, include that in there, um,you know, I'll help out any way I can. >> And Michael, I think your board would bereally good for maybe this one, but certainly the future>> because that's part of what we're going to be looking at to see if they've beenaccomplished or not. >> Michael, in your first life here,How did they evaluate you? >> I got no evaluations in the five years.>> No evaluations. Never. >> How did you get a merit increase?>> I I didn't. >> You didn't get a merit increase.>> Um the what I did is a portfolio online. >> Yeah.>> And I send it to the board at the end of every year.>> Right. >> I'll take that back. My first year I didget an evaluation from the board. >> All right.um subsequent years I asked and I put an online portfolio that they all couldaccess and I just put what the goals were that I distilled and what theartifacts were to support the accomplishment of those goals andI mean I'm just candidly telling you how it went. >> Okay.>> All right. >> Let's try.>> Yeah. Go ahead. I think we're I think we're in agreement. Consensus.>> Agree. >> Tony, you did?>> I'm good. >> Uh, sorry. Do we want to have it go outto um the cabinet or No. Okay. [snorts]>> Amber, is that fair? >> Um, I'm I'm trying to think of offairness to Michael. We didn't send it out to cabinet until the end.>> It was just ours. >> We could do it.>> And if you're like, "This is just a check in.">> We didn't do it every time. If you want to do it every time, you can't. But forthe check-ins, we didn't. It was just the final one. We did the cabinet>> because we took their opinion into the the final.>> Yeah, >> that sounds good to me.>> Then that's probably more efficient. So again, procedurally, we would come backonce it's all collected, synthesized, it's close session for the board to chatabout it. >> Yep.>> And then we bring Michael into the close session.>> Yes. Yes. >> We chat about it. Then we have to goback into open session and then explain. >> You just have to do it at the next boardmeeting. So you don't have to do the summary right after.>> Yeah. >> You can do it at the next one.>> So not in detail, but >> Yeah.>> You want to be cognizant of employee rights.>> Yep. Mhm. >> Not that there's going to be anythingthat you can worry about. >> It's your evaluation.>> I can always do lots of things better. >> It's your evaluation.>> Yeah. >> All right.>> I'm going to make a motion. >> Any other>> I would second that motion. >> Uh all in favor say I.>> I. >> Any opposed? We are journ [cough]tundra.